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Syria Podcast Episode 4 · UK Column Radio

0:00
Speaker 1: Welcome to episode four of the Syria Podcast, and I'm
0:03
Speaker 1: joined once again by Vanessa Billy. Welcome to the program, Vanessa.
0:07
Speaker 2: Thanks Mike.
0:07
Speaker 1: So, I don't know where to start with this, because
0:10
Speaker 1: a lot has happened since the last time we spoke,
0:12
Speaker 1: and various statements from as relations with the so called
0:17
Speaker 1: new regime and Syria are attempted to be normalized by
0:21
Speaker 1: multiple countries, including Russia, and that's particular perhaps the most
0:24
Speaker 1: surprising aspect of this for me.
0:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the new regime. Let's remember, it's not elected.
0:30
Speaker 2: It's a transitional government, although at the moment they do
0:35
Speaker 2: appear to be appointing governors and ministers that have almost
0:40
Speaker 2: across the board, in fact fully across the board affiliation
0:43
Speaker 2: to Hyataria Sham or to other organizations like Ara al
0:48
Speaker 2: Sham that were responsible for a number of sectarian massacres
0:53
Speaker 2: across Syria between twenty eleven and twenty twenty four, or
0:57
Speaker 2: let's say up until twenty twenty. So the government that
1:01
Speaker 2: is currently being formed is one transditional who it's not elected. Three,
1:07
Speaker 2: it's being recognized and legitimized by the regimes in the
1:13
Speaker 2: West that effectively established these organizations and armed them and
1:18
Speaker 2: funded them and promoted them in order to carry out
1:23
Speaker 2: sectarian a trustees against the Syrian people as part of
1:27
Speaker 2: the regime change operation. So we're living in a kind
1:31
Speaker 2: of hideous dystopia from which there seems to be no
1:35
Speaker 2: escape at the moment.
1:36
Speaker 1: So you've mentioned two of these groups. How many groups
1:40
Speaker 1: are there actually involved in this new government?
1:44
Speaker 2: Well, I mean you would have to assume the groups
1:48
Speaker 2: that are under the control of hts I did actually
1:51
Speaker 2: publish something on this back in twenty twenty one. There
1:55
Speaker 2: are a large number of groups, let's say more than
1:58
Speaker 2: twenty that comprise not only Syrians, but also a large
2:04
Speaker 2: number of foreign extremist mercenaries like the Kurdish Salafus, the Chechens,
2:09
Speaker 2: the Auzbeks, the Turkmenistan Ugas. Ten thousand vigas are currently
2:16
Speaker 2: inside Syria, and of course the Chinese embassy has come
2:19
Speaker 2: under a direct attack from them on its fumes in Damascus.
2:23
Speaker 2: So HDS is a loose umbrella for the militant forces
2:28
Speaker 2: that are now running riot inside Syria. And while they
2:32
Speaker 2: claim they're trying to maintain some kind of peace and
2:35
Speaker 2: order insecurity, we know for a fact that certain militant
2:40
Speaker 2: groups are establishing sieges of for example, Ala white towns
2:45
Speaker 2: and villages in the coastal areas, and have been carrying
2:50
Speaker 2: out sectarian programs in villages around homps and so and so.
2:56
Speaker 2: You know, it's a very mixed bag at the moment.
2:58
Speaker 2: But of course the West is trying to portray this
3:00
Speaker 2: as they reformed HTS, which is now Johnani has had
3:04
Speaker 2: the bounty lifted off his head. His name has been
3:08
Speaker 2: changed to Ahmad al Sada, even though the Alsado family
3:12
Speaker 2: deny all knowledge of his existence. So where as I said,
3:16
Speaker 2: you know, we're just living in this insane world right now,
3:20
Speaker 2: we're all the sanctions that were used to collectively punish
3:23
Speaker 2: the Syrian people for the last decade at least are
3:27
Speaker 2: now going to be lifted because the terrorists that the
3:31
Speaker 2: West was supporting or were supporting, are back in charge
3:36
Speaker 2: now on behalf of the West, Turkey, Israel, the cut out.
3:39
Speaker 1: What became of the government ministers that didn't leave the country.
3:45
Speaker 1: Is there any indication if they are involved in this
3:47
Speaker 1: new and helping create this new transitional government, or if
3:52
Speaker 1: there's any potential rule for them, assuming that at some
3:56
Speaker 1: point in the future this transitional government transitions to something.
4:00
Speaker 2: Else, assuming that's a big assumption. Yes, you know, to
4:05
Speaker 2: what degree will it be able to hold on to power?
4:08
Speaker 2: Of course, that's the other question, because there is going
4:11
Speaker 2: to be in fighting, just as there was an EDLB.
4:13
Speaker 2: You know, things were not stabilized in EdLib. We talked
4:17
Speaker 2: on Wednesday about the arbitrary executions that were carried out
4:21
Speaker 2: by the HDS so called Salvation government in EdLab, the imprisonment,
4:26
Speaker 2: the punishment for protesters against the Islamic pool in Edlymbic,
4:31
Speaker 2: et cetera, and so far we're not seeing any Initially
4:36
Speaker 2: we saw the original Prime Minister being involved in the
4:40
Speaker 2: first few days, but I haven't seen or heard from
4:43
Speaker 2: him since then, while Jiolani is appointing ministers and governors
4:48
Speaker 2: for various governorates in Syria from within the HDS military forces.
4:55
Speaker 1: Obviously, in the first number of days following the change
4:59
Speaker 1: of regime, there was quite a lot of violence, people
5:03
Speaker 1: being murdered in hospital beds, summary executions everywhere, hanging shootings, beheadings.
5:10
Speaker 1: What is the current situation? Has that situation continued exactly the.
5:15
Speaker 2: Same, particularly in areas like the coastal areas where there
5:20
Speaker 2: are the majority of the Ala white communities, towns and
5:24
Speaker 2: villages and the Shea communities, and of course many of
5:29
Speaker 2: the government officials that you mentioned and even military fled
5:35
Speaker 2: to the coastal areas for safety. And so therefore are
5:40
Speaker 2: we are seeing sweeping operations by affiliates of HTS who
5:45
Speaker 2: were declaring themselves as affiliates of HTS through these towns
5:49
Speaker 2: and villages, routing out as the West likes to call them,
5:53
Speaker 2: the henchmen of so this kind of revenge killing, which
5:57
Speaker 2: is also being normalized and justified by the likes of
6:00
Speaker 2: the BBC and DNN. We've been Jeremy Bowen virtually relishing
6:07
Speaker 2: the idea of an execution of an henchman in Damascus.
6:11
Speaker 2: Very recently we've seen him interviewing Joe Lanni with very
6:15
Speaker 2: softball questions, almost as if they answers have been prepared
6:19
Speaker 2: from Joe Lanni, just as they always have been of course,
6:22
Speaker 2: from the likes of the White Helmets and so on
6:24
Speaker 2: across the last sort of ten years. We know that
6:27
Speaker 2: they're being managed and controlled.
6:29
Speaker 1: And the problem with that kind of interview isn't it
6:31
Speaker 1: is that we don't get to see the interview as
6:35
Speaker 1: the full thing because it's being it's a simultaneous translation,
6:38
Speaker 1: so it's carefully edited to make sure because obviously, I mean,
6:41
Speaker 1: we don't want to see the whole thing. We just
6:43
Speaker 1: want to see the questions and the answers. We don't
6:45
Speaker 1: want to see the conversation that was on in between.
6:48
Speaker 1: So that is a very carefully edited and packaged piece,
6:54
Speaker 1: and we can't know how genuine that is.
6:56
Speaker 2: It's crafted. And you know, when you have Bowen describing
7:00
Speaker 2: someone who was originally with Isis then with al Kaeder
7:05
Speaker 2: as someone who has great vision, is intelligent, and so on,
7:09
Speaker 2: like literally waxing lyrical about him. And as you've brought
7:12
Speaker 2: up how come, I mean, the US now has apparently
7:16
Speaker 2: lifted its ten million bounty on Jelani after Matthew Miller,
7:21
Speaker 2: the US State Department spokesperson, said that no US official
7:25
Speaker 2: is going to collect the reward even if they point
7:28
Speaker 2: out where Jelani is, because everyone knows where Jelonni is, right,
7:32
Speaker 2: But for the BBC to sit down with someone that
7:37
Speaker 2: is the leader of what is still a prescribed terrorist organization,
7:41
Speaker 2: and yet there is absolutely no recrimination for Bohen or
7:45
Speaker 2: for the other BBC correspondence on the ground, or for
7:48
Speaker 2: Peric O'Brian with Channel four on the ground and speaking
7:52
Speaker 2: to members of the terrorist groups. There's absolutely no recriminations
7:56
Speaker 2: for them for basically promoting and platform a terrorist organization,
8:02
Speaker 2: Like how does this work? We know how this works,
8:04
Speaker 2: of course, but that's largely a rhetorical question.
8:07
Speaker 1: On that theme, I wrote to counterter Terrorism Police in
8:11
Speaker 1: the UK about this situation and asked two questions. I asked,
8:16
Speaker 1: is there an ongoing investigation into comments made by various
8:20
Speaker 1: people regarding HTS and if not, what is the difference
8:23
Speaker 1: between the comments made by those alleged to be supportive
8:25
Speaker 1: of HAMAS and those apparently supportive of HTS And why
8:29
Speaker 1: are the latter not considered to be in breach of
8:31
Speaker 1: the Terrorism Act? And the answer that I got back
8:34
Speaker 1: from the counter Terrorism Police was in media interviews yesterday
8:38
Speaker 1: our senior National Coordinator of counter Terrorism Police and confirmed
8:42
Speaker 1: that no arrests have been made under Section twelve linked
8:45
Speaker 1: to HTS since the latest developments in Syria. If you
8:48
Speaker 1: want full slash historic data sets on this over a
8:51
Speaker 1: certain period of time, dismit freedom information requests into relevant
8:55
Speaker 1: forces as part of the usual process. We wouldn't confirm
8:59
Speaker 1: what may or may not be the subject of a
9:02
Speaker 1: counter terrorism police investigation, and that was sent to me
9:06
Speaker 1: on the nineteenth of December. Take that as it is.
9:09
Speaker 1: They have no intention. Clearly, it seems that why they're
9:13
Speaker 1: not confirming that whether there's going to be any investigation
9:17
Speaker 1: into these that they're they're saying that no arrestsip been
9:20
Speaker 1: made and there's no indication that there would be any.
9:23
Speaker 2: Oh but anyone that is supporting the resistance in Palestine
9:28
Speaker 2: or Lebanon is immediately under suspicion of supporting prescribed groups,
9:34
Speaker 2: even if they haven't fraternized with those prescribed groups or
9:37
Speaker 2: platformed those prescribed groups. Just they are against the genocide
9:43
Speaker 2: that's being committed by the Zionist regime, right, So, I
9:48
Speaker 2: mean this is extraordinary. You know, if you're against genocide
9:51
Speaker 2: by Israel, you can be arrested, you can be detained,
9:55
Speaker 2: you can be in prison. If you're protesting in the
9:59
Speaker 2: u UK against the supply of weapons to the Zionist
10:03
Speaker 2: regime to carry out the genocide in Gaza and in
10:07
Speaker 2: the occupied territories, you can be held in remand and
10:11
Speaker 2: basically put through abergrade style torture methods. When you're only
10:16
Speaker 2: being charged effectively with aggravated burglary. But if the BBC
10:21
Speaker 2: state media, UK state media can go and glorify arbitrary
10:26
Speaker 2: execution without trial, without prosecution, without any kind of judicial process,
10:33
Speaker 2: and can glorify and lionize someone who was previously with ISIS,
10:39
Speaker 2: with al Qaeda and was responsible for atrostees against the
10:43
Speaker 2: Syrian people. I mean, you know, this is just for
10:47
Speaker 2: people to really understand the rotten core of our establishment
10:52
Speaker 2: in the UK and in the West in general, and
10:56
Speaker 2: that none of us are safe in this kind of environment.
10:59
Speaker 2: None because they will always be protected because they protect
11:04
Speaker 2: the establishment. We will never be protected because we stand
11:09
Speaker 2: against the establishment.
11:11
Speaker 1: Let me ask a controversial question because I just feel
11:16
Speaker 1: that we need to put a line in the sand here.
11:18
Speaker 1: Is there no redemption for Jilani and people like him.
11:22
Speaker 2: When something is an ideological driver of someone's behavior, and
11:28
Speaker 2: within that I include the sectarianism, the violence which continued
11:36
Speaker 2: in EdLib, the fact that EdLib is being presented as
11:39
Speaker 2: some kind of example of fair governance inside Syria and
11:44
Speaker 2: that should be repeated by HTS in the rest of Syria.
11:49
Speaker 2: This is insane because we know even through opposition aligned
11:54
Speaker 2: media outlets and humanitarian or human rights organizations in Syria
11:59
Speaker 2: that this is not true. Even if you take out
12:02
Speaker 2: the terrorist activities, Why should they walk away scot free
12:06
Speaker 2: mine if they committed crimes as the groups they once were,
12:11
Speaker 2: even if they had an epiphany, should they not say
12:13
Speaker 2: strial for what they did, even if they changed, which
12:16
Speaker 2: I do not believe for one second that they have,
12:20
Speaker 2: because those crimes are still continuing. It's just that the
12:24
Speaker 2: HDS leadership is trying to distance itself from them, and
12:27
Speaker 2: of course they're being managed by Turkish intelligence, by Mossad,
12:31
Speaker 2: by CIA, by NI six, just as they have throughout
12:35
Speaker 2: this war. We know this from the lead to UK
12:37
Speaker 2: Foreign Office documents about when was it three years ago?
12:42
Speaker 2: So redemption there should be no redemption there without some
12:48
Speaker 2: kind of payment for the crimes you've committed.
12:51
Speaker 1: That is high I would view this situation. There has
12:54
Speaker 1: to be some reckoning for what was done. I mean,
12:57
Speaker 1: you know you and I well you've parteicularly have covered
13:01
Speaker 1: for many, many years the atrocities that have been perpetrated
13:06
Speaker 1: by these groups, including beheadings of children and blowing up
13:10
Speaker 1: of buses with children on them and so on. So
13:13
Speaker 1: you know that's just scratching the surface.
13:16
Speaker 2: And crucifixion and torture and detention. I mean in Easter
13:21
Speaker 2: La Polone, people were crucified. They were held underground in
13:27
Speaker 2: frond or sewage pipes with the lid put back down
13:31
Speaker 2: on top of them. The Eye Hospital was converted into
13:34
Speaker 2: a Sharia court and a detention center where people were
13:37
Speaker 2: abused and tortured for having any kind of affiliation with
13:42
Speaker 2: the Syrian government. There were multiple crimes carried out. Children
13:46
Speaker 2: used as suicide bombers. I mean, if we look at
13:49
Speaker 2: abdulah Mahiseni, who was in charge of the one of
13:53
Speaker 2: the terrorist coalitions, he was responsible paid by Saudi Arabia
13:58
Speaker 2: to recruit and train child suicide bombers. We know that
14:02
Speaker 2: child suicy bombers were used even in Damas districts of
14:06
Speaker 2: Damascus by these groups. You know, the crimes that are endless,
14:10
Speaker 2: and yet we seem to be entering this phase of
14:14
Speaker 2: as Peter Ford calls it, the a sad holocaust, where
14:18
Speaker 2: everything is going to be attributed to a sad and
14:21
Speaker 2: that's it. So they will get off scot free. They'll
14:24
Speaker 2: come out of this smelling of roses. If Western media
14:27
Speaker 2: and Western regimes have anything to do with it, until,
14:31
Speaker 2: of course, they become too difficult to manage, which is
14:34
Speaker 2: what usually happens with these kind of proxy forces, whether
14:38
Speaker 2: it's in Afghanistan or in Libya and so on, and
14:43
Speaker 2: then they'll become dispensable. But you can't. You can take
14:47
Speaker 2: a terrorist and put them in a suit and trim
14:50
Speaker 2: their beard and put them on PBS and CNN, but
14:53
Speaker 2: they're still a terrorist.
14:55
Speaker 1: At this point, I still have no real understanding of
14:58
Speaker 1: what happened over the last last few weeks, in the
15:01
Speaker 1: sense that up until a point, apparently there was a
15:04
Speaker 1: stable country in Syria, and within a matter of a
15:08
Speaker 1: couple of days that not only evaporated, but it was
15:12
Speaker 1: almost as if Ithts was welcomed. What changed within the
15:17
Speaker 1: government that was around as Sad that allowed that to happen.
15:21
Speaker 2: I don't think anything changed within the government around as Sad.
15:27
Speaker 2: But what I would like to do, because it all
15:29
Speaker 2: began in a leper, and what I would like to reiterate,
15:33
Speaker 2: first of all, is that it was well known that
15:36
Speaker 2: Jolani was planning an extensive attack from inside loop. It
15:42
Speaker 2: is well known that Rota and Turkey broken the ceasefire
15:46
Speaker 2: deal back in twenty twenty that, if you like, gave
15:50
Speaker 2: Jolani's forces the time to develop their military structure, to
15:55
Speaker 2: develop their weapons capability, with the help of native member
15:59
Speaker 2: states that we know, we're sending special forces into Idland
16:02
Speaker 2: train them, with the help of Turkey that was providing
16:06
Speaker 2: surveillance from and drone warfare from within its one hundred
16:12
Speaker 2: and fifty bases in the north and the northwest of Syria,
16:16
Speaker 2: and latterly from Ukraine. Ukraine special forces were in idlumb
16:22
Speaker 2: helping to train Lani's military, which, as I reiterate, also
16:27
Speaker 2: comprised probably fifty conservatively speaking, foreign mercenaries, extremist mercenaries from
16:34
Speaker 2: all places in the world, from just about everywhere. If
16:38
Speaker 2: we look back at the twenty fourteen map, we can
16:41
Speaker 2: see that the terrorist forces were coming in from pretty
16:45
Speaker 2: much everywhere, and so therefore it was very well known
16:49
Speaker 2: and it should have been very well known by for example,
16:52
Speaker 2: Russia that this was happening. It was certainly well known
16:56
Speaker 2: by Turkey because Turkey was involved in the training and
17:00
Speaker 2: the empowerment of Jolani's forces and of the formerly free
17:05
Speaker 2: Syrian army forces occupying the north of Syria, now known
17:10
Speaker 2: as the Syrian National Army and under the direct control
17:14
Speaker 2: of Dulan Free Syrian Army that also carried out atrosties
17:18
Speaker 2: against the Syrian people alongside Nusra Front or Al Kaeda,
17:22
Speaker 2: that then under Jilani became HTS was reranded by the
17:27
Speaker 2: West basically, So that's the first thing. So Russia should
17:31
Speaker 2: have been well aware of the fact that this attack
17:34
Speaker 2: was building. There were thirty thousand troops at Aleppo in
17:38
Speaker 2: preparation for this attack. There were numbers of Christian National
17:44
Speaker 2: Defense Forces stationed in Coma who were well aware that
17:49
Speaker 2: this attack was incoming. Now, when I spoke to military
17:56
Speaker 2: personnel that I know leading up to it, there was
17:59
Speaker 2: a sense of unease. I couldn't get to the bottom
18:02
Speaker 2: of that unease because you know, people don't talk very
18:06
Speaker 2: freely about military issues and full and particularly when it
18:09
Speaker 2: comes to Russia or even Iran. But I did pick
18:13
Speaker 2: up on unease amongst them that something was not right
18:17
Speaker 2: or that they were unsupported. Let's say, then the attack happened.
18:21
Speaker 2: Now if I can, I want to come to Putin's
18:26
Speaker 2: recent press conference because I want to point out three
18:30
Speaker 2: big untruth in Putin's conference response to I think it
18:34
Speaker 2: was a British journalist. I want to do this because
18:37
Speaker 2: I think it lays the ground for the discussion we
18:40
Speaker 2: need to have. And I also want to be very
18:43
Speaker 2: clear with people that I'm piecing things together. It takes
18:48
Speaker 2: a long time. This is an incredibly complex situation. I
18:53
Speaker 2: have a lot of information from very reliable sources that
18:57
Speaker 2: nobody else I know nobody else will have. People are
19:00
Speaker 2: jumping to conclusions, They're being led to conclusions. They're allowing
19:06
Speaker 2: their cognitive dissonance, perhaps on Russia's role, to cloud their
19:11
Speaker 2: judgment as to whether Russia might have played a role
19:15
Speaker 2: in facilitating the takeover of the country or not. So
19:19
Speaker 2: this is where I'm coming from, right I'm just trying
19:22
Speaker 2: to piece the information together that I have and to
19:25
Speaker 2: make sense of it. People can disagree with me, people
19:28
Speaker 2: can argue with me, but they should at least try
19:32
Speaker 2: to argue from a better inform position than me if
19:36
Speaker 2: they're going to argue with me. If that makes sense,
19:39
Speaker 2: What did Putin say? First of all, he claims that
19:42
Speaker 2: they didn't deploy any ground forces in Syria. They were
19:46
Speaker 2: simply not present there. Our presence consisted solely of two bases,
19:51
Speaker 2: an air base and a naval base. The ground operations
19:54
Speaker 2: were conducted by the Syrian armed forces, and as is
19:57
Speaker 2: widely known, there is no secret here certain thro Iranian
20:00
Speaker 2: combat units. Now this is palpably untrue. Russia had an
20:06
Speaker 2: estimated one hundred military bases or positions inside Syria, including
20:12
Speaker 2: on the southern border next to the ceasefire line between
20:17
Speaker 2: Israel and Syria. I saw for myself convoys of Russian
20:21
Speaker 2: troops heading from Damascus back to time and me and
20:26
Speaker 2: are they trying to tell us that those hundred bases
20:28
Speaker 2: dotted across Syria, including in the northeast, by the way,
20:32
Speaker 2: had no manpower there. That's impossible. Now what they might
20:36
Speaker 2: argue is that they were Chechen troops that were working
20:40
Speaker 2: on behalf of Russia inside Syria, as they did after
20:44
Speaker 2: the liberation of a Leppo. I don't know, because it
20:47
Speaker 2: wasn't clarified input in response. So then what does he
20:51
Speaker 2: say about hold on?
20:52
Speaker 1: Just before we go onto the next one? Just just
20:56
Speaker 1: I'd be interested to know when you use the term
20:58
Speaker 1: bas there, what are you taught talking about? Are these
21:01
Speaker 1: these deployments of various sizes or they what kind of
21:05
Speaker 1: bass are we talking about?
21:06
Speaker 2: They're deployments of various sizes. I mean I visited one
21:10
Speaker 2: when I went to the Kurdish child areas, not in
21:14
Speaker 2: the far northeast, but man Bridge and to the northeast
21:19
Speaker 2: of man Bridge back in probably four years ago. Now,
21:24
Speaker 2: I actually went to Russian bases there, and you know, no,
21:28
Speaker 2: they're not vast extensive bases. They're very similar to the
21:32
Speaker 2: American basis, relatively small positions where there's let's say thirty
21:38
Speaker 2: forty Russian troops for example, but then you're talking one
21:42
Speaker 2: hundred of these bases across Syria and in Damascus for example,
21:47
Speaker 2: and in the south right, so very similar to the
21:50
Speaker 2: American presence in a way, very similar.
21:54
Speaker 1: But the key point is there were Russians or Russian whatever,
21:58
Speaker 1: Chechen whoever, whatever, they were there as representing Russia.
22:03
Speaker 2: Yeah. So you know, this is what I'm trying to
22:06
Speaker 2: show is there is a degree of gas lighting going
22:09
Speaker 2: on about this narrative, and I'm not accepting the Russian
22:13
Speaker 2: official narrative right now or certain aspects of it. So
22:16
Speaker 2: then let's have a look at what he says about
22:19
Speaker 2: what transpired when armed opposition groups advanced towards Aleppo. The
22:25
Speaker 2: city was defended by approximately thirty thousand personnel. He's meaning
22:30
Speaker 2: Syrian Arabbami personnel in the west and in the east. However,
22:34
Speaker 2: when three hundred and fifty militants that's I don't know
22:38
Speaker 2: where he gets this figure from entered the city, the
22:41
Speaker 2: government forces along with the pro Iranian units withdrew without resistance,
22:47
Speaker 2: demolishing their positions as they left. Now this is really important.
22:53
Speaker 2: I can't at the moment speak for the west because
22:56
Speaker 2: I don't have the full picture on the western defense
23:01
Speaker 2: of a Leper, but on the Eastern defense of a Leper,
23:05
Speaker 2: I have it reliably confirmed that the Syrian Arab Army
23:09
Speaker 2: brigades stood their ground, That Commander Sergei Kissel, who was
23:14
Speaker 2: then commander of the Russian forces, left and abandoned the
23:19
Speaker 2: Syrian Arab Army and was spotted leaving and heading back
23:23
Speaker 2: to Homomme by the Iranian reinforcements that were coming in
23:27
Speaker 2: to help the Syrian Arab Army at that point. So again,
23:30
Speaker 2: this doesn't comply with Putin's narrative now, Butin might be misinformed.
23:37
Speaker 2: This might be what his intelligence agencies and his military
23:41
Speaker 2: and defense people are telling him. Right, So this isn't
23:45
Speaker 2: if you might it's not a personal attack on Butin.
23:47
Speaker 2: But then again he's responsible for knowing exactly what went
23:51
Speaker 2: on on the ground. And then he goes on to
23:53
Speaker 2: say this pattern was observed across nearly the entire Assyrian territory,
23:57
Speaker 2: with only minor exceptions where skirmishes occurred. Now, again, the
24:04
Speaker 2: brigades that were in the east, I know for a fact,
24:07
Speaker 2: they then moved to the south. They engaged the terrorists
24:11
Speaker 2: to liberate people who were trapped in the al Safira
24:15
Speaker 2: area to the south of Elopo. So they were still
24:19
Speaker 2: involved in fighting at this point against the terrorists and
24:23
Speaker 2: liberating their people who were getting trapped in the skirmishes
24:26
Speaker 2: or in the battles. So they liberated the people from
24:30
Speaker 2: Nobel Azaro who had evacuated out of fear for their
24:34
Speaker 2: lives because those two villages had been targeted previously by
24:39
Speaker 2: HTS and Arad al Sham for ethnic cleansing. We mentioned
24:43
Speaker 2: that also, I think either this week or the week
24:46
Speaker 2: before on UK column News. Now this is where let
24:51
Speaker 2: me just finish with Putin's untruth. That's how I'm going
24:55
Speaker 2: to describe them. So he then goes on to say,
24:59
Speaker 2: we facilitate did the relocation of four thousand Iranian fighters.
25:03
Speaker 2: So I presume this means IRGC to Tehran from Himamin
25:07
Speaker 2: air Base, some pro Iranian units withdrew to Lebanon and
25:11
Speaker 2: others to Irq without engaging in combat. Now I have
25:16
Speaker 2: spoken to again incredibly reliable people that I trust entirely,
25:21
Speaker 2: particularly from their analysis from the military situation, because they
25:26
Speaker 2: have contacts within the Iranian military forces inside Syria, and
25:31
Speaker 2: this is what they told me. Russia did not evacuate
25:35
Speaker 2: any Iranian troops. In fact, the Russians retreated from the
25:40
Speaker 2: runway of Basal Alasad Airport in the Takia. They fully
25:44
Speaker 2: retreated from the runway, they lost control of the runway.
25:48
Speaker 2: Iranians then helped them to secure the airport and Pimamme Base.
25:54
Speaker 2: Iran took full responsibility for evacuating Iranian troops from inside.
26:00
Speaker 2: Russia didn't, and Russia was responsible for the evacuation of
26:06
Speaker 2: some Afghani, Pakistani and some Iranian civilians, but very few,
26:12
Speaker 2: but not from the coastal areas, from the Seda Zenap
26:16
Speaker 2: area in Damascus. You know what I have to ask here, Mike,
26:20
Speaker 2: is why is there a necessity to office gate for truth?
26:24
Speaker 2: I have to start raising questions. And then if I
26:27
Speaker 2: add what I know again from the battlefield, I talked
26:33
Speaker 2: about the Syrian brigades that were still fighting and at
26:36
Speaker 2: that point, so this was around the fourth of December,
26:40
Speaker 2: the President actually asked, and again I know those through
26:43
Speaker 2: insight sources that I trust, the President asked, why is
26:48
Speaker 2: the Syrian army not fighting? Now? This coincide with the
26:52
Speaker 2: removal from the battlefield of a number of commanders, more
26:57
Speaker 2: than ten. And I have to assume the removal was
27:02
Speaker 2: carried out not by the President because he asked the question,
27:05
Speaker 2: so one would assume he was in the dark at
27:08
Speaker 2: that point, but was carried out by the Defense Ministry
27:12
Speaker 2: because that's the only other institution that would have the
27:16
Speaker 2: power to be able to remove commanders from the battlefield.
27:21
Speaker 2: Then who was put in charge of the entire battlefield
27:25
Speaker 2: and the forces and the operations against the terrorists was
27:30
Speaker 2: a commander who was known to be under the influence
27:33
Speaker 2: of the Russians, and at that point the Syrian Army
27:37
Speaker 2: started to lay down arms.
27:40
Speaker 1: I wanted to just delve into that a little bit
27:42
Speaker 1: deeper because earlier on I said, I asked, what changed,
27:46
Speaker 1: because what you're suggesting, is it somebody if it is
27:51
Speaker 1: the defense ministry, but somebody made the decision to do
27:54
Speaker 1: what you've just described. Is there any indication at this
27:58
Speaker 1: stage how and why decision was made.
28:01
Speaker 2: The indication is very clearly that the commanders who were
28:06
Speaker 2: removed from the battlefield were the commanders who would never
28:10
Speaker 2: surrender and who would not stand down, so they were removed.
28:15
Speaker 2: And the commander who was put in charge of operations
28:20
Speaker 2: is someone under the control of Russia. Russia was paying
28:23
Speaker 2: the salaries and training them and so on for a
28:27
Speaker 2: very long time.
28:29
Speaker 1: But who made that decision and why?
28:31
Speaker 2: I don't I can't tell you who. I can't.
28:35
Speaker 1: But what I'm trying to get at. What I'm trying
28:37
Speaker 1: to get at is was somebody within the Syrian ministry
28:41
Speaker 1: told by somebody by by Russia.
28:43
Speaker 2: Or I have to this aspect now I'm in that
28:48
Speaker 2: area of speculation right. What I'm what I'm trying to
28:51
Speaker 2: make clear is when people talk about the Syrian army
28:55
Speaker 2: being infiltrated and corrupted and that they just surrendered, I
29:01
Speaker 2: don't believe this to be true, because the commanders who
29:04
Speaker 2: were removed from the battlefield were removed because they would
29:09
Speaker 2: not stand down. So whoever removed them was either aware
29:14
Speaker 2: of a plan that HTS should be allowed to take
29:18
Speaker 2: over the country, right, because there's no other There's no
29:22
Speaker 2: other logical reason for that to happen. Because if the
29:26
Speaker 2: president is himself asking why is the Syrian Army not fighting,
29:31
Speaker 2: this suggests it was not in his hands and someone
29:35
Speaker 2: else took the decision based on what they were instructed
29:38
Speaker 2: to do. Because the Ministry of Defense would not act
29:41
Speaker 2: without instruction from the president unless the instruction was coming
29:45
Speaker 2: from at that point, a higher power.
29:48
Speaker 1: Does that make sense unless somebody had decided that the
29:51
Speaker 1: game was up in some way and they took the
29:53
Speaker 1: decision themselves. You don't buy that.
29:57
Speaker 2: But why when your commanders are fighting, when you have
30:00
Speaker 2: thirty thousand troops, as put In says at the press conference,
30:04
Speaker 2: why would those troops withdraw? And when people talk about
30:07
Speaker 2: the demoralization of the Syrian army, that was the case
30:11
Speaker 2: from twenty eleven onwards. I mean, I'm not talking about demoralization,
30:15
Speaker 2: but it's the same position because they were never paid
30:19
Speaker 2: a huge amount and yet they still fought for their
30:22
Speaker 2: country for fourteen years. Now. I'm not saying there weren't
30:26
Speaker 2: other circumstances like, for example, rookie soldiers that were recent
30:30
Speaker 2: conscripts that were not battle experience, or elements that were demoralized.
30:39
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that doesn't exist. That's what I'm trying
30:42
Speaker 2: to do here. I'm trying to tease out the information
30:46
Speaker 2: that I have, and I'm trying to logically work out
30:50
Speaker 2: through understanding the nature of governance in Syria or how
30:53
Speaker 2: this could have happened, because those commanders would not stand
30:57
Speaker 2: down unless that command came from someone that they couldn't refuse.
31:02
Speaker 2: And when I come back to the fact that those
31:05
Speaker 2: more than ten commanders were removed from the battlefield almost simultaneous,
31:09
Speaker 2: and then the commander who was put in charge of
31:13
Speaker 2: all battle operations was someone managed effectively by Russia. So
31:18
Speaker 2: that says to me, at that point they started to surrender.
31:22
Speaker 2: So that suggested to me that Russia had her hands
31:25
Speaker 2: in engineering the surrender and the surrendering of territory to
31:30
Speaker 2: the advancing HTS forces and the other aspect to this. Again,
31:35
Speaker 2: this is through my talking to many people within the military,
31:39
Speaker 2: within all institutions and communities inside serious since I love
31:44
Speaker 2: the statements being put out by the Russian military or
31:47
Speaker 2: how many terrorists they had killed, were massively exaggerated, and
31:52
Speaker 2: many people have confirmed to me that the Russians were
31:55
Speaker 2: not seriously bombing anything. Look at the point that the
31:59
Speaker 2: terrorist left Aleppo, they were in open ground, they were convoys.
32:04
Speaker 2: This is a bit like the story of the US
32:06
Speaker 2: Why didn't they bomb Isis when it came from Iraq
32:09
Speaker 2: to Syria over five hundred kilometers in open ground, in
32:14
Speaker 2: toyota trucks and armoured cog convoys, and America did nothing.
32:19
Speaker 2: This is the same situation of those convoys traveling in
32:23
Speaker 2: the open, not underground, not in tunnels, not in caves,
32:27
Speaker 2: not in the mountains, but in open grounds. From Aleppo.
32:30
Speaker 2: They would be the easiest possible target for Russia. And
32:33
Speaker 2: yet their numbers didn't really decrease, and the drogs warfare
32:38
Speaker 2: was still being heavily used against Syrian army positions. And
32:41
Speaker 2: one soldier actually told me that this was what was
32:44
Speaker 2: decimating their positions at the point that they were still
32:47
Speaker 2: trying to stand in Humma. And you also had the stories,
32:52
Speaker 2: and this is very much what I was receiving when
32:55
Speaker 2: I was listening to everything when I went to Hons,
32:58
Speaker 2: when I went to the coastal area during the battles,
33:01
Speaker 2: when the terrorists were nearing command, for example, which is
33:04
Speaker 2: to the north of homes where I was. But at
33:06
Speaker 2: this point people in homes were already being evacuated. The
33:11
Speaker 2: message was, we're not getting any instructions from command. We
33:14
Speaker 2: don't know what to do, we don't know where we
33:17
Speaker 2: should be, we don't know where we should group. There
33:20
Speaker 2: was total confusion. But remember this is after the commanders
33:24
Speaker 2: were removed from the battle build and everything was under
33:27
Speaker 2: the control of one person, you know, to a large degree.
33:30
Speaker 2: I'm also trying to make sense of it, but with
33:33
Speaker 2: the help of a lot of analysis from people who
33:36
Speaker 2: were either fighting or on the ground or have contacts in.
33:39
Speaker 1: The military, and so what has become with this of
33:42
Speaker 1: this commander.
33:43
Speaker 2: We don't know he's disappeared, but I would almost guarantee
33:48
Speaker 2: in Russia that certainly. I've asked again a number of people,
33:52
Speaker 2: and they're pretty much convinced he was risked off to
33:55
Speaker 2: Russia once the order for surrender had gone out. We
33:59
Speaker 2: saw after in homes to a large degree, then has
34:04
Speaker 2: Blow was still there, and they of course were always
34:07
Speaker 2: going to try and defend Hans because it's crucial to
34:10
Speaker 2: the resupply of weapons to HESBLO because you have Alcroser,
34:15
Speaker 2: you have the border crossings there, you have the Messia
34:18
Speaker 2: Scientific and Research Development Center, which has been responsible for
34:23
Speaker 2: the development and production of many of the rockets that,
34:26
Speaker 2: for example HESBLA has used or the resistance in general
34:30
Speaker 2: has been using.
34:31
Speaker 1: And I presume that that supply line is now completely cut.
34:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, all supply lines now to are pretty much cut
34:38
Speaker 2: as far as I'm aware.
34:39
Speaker 1: Sorry, I don't want to divert this too much, but
34:42
Speaker 1: my understanding is that that Hamas, for example, is quite
34:47
Speaker 1: supportive of HTS. So why is HTS not reciprocatting.
34:54
Speaker 2: Okay, So now we are getting into a major diversion.
34:57
Speaker 1: Right, Okay, if you don't want to go there and
34:59
Speaker 1: this one, then we will.
35:00
Speaker 2: Or didn't we go there perhaps at the end, because
35:03
Speaker 2: I just want to focus on this scenario because people
35:06
Speaker 2: really need to understand.
35:07
Speaker 1: No, cool, that's fine, the.
35:10
Speaker 2: Military scenario around what happened, because there's too much confusion
35:15
Speaker 2: on social media in reports, and it's very clear to
35:19
Speaker 2: me that not only is social media very fast to
35:23
Speaker 2: condemn a sad and I want to make another thing
35:26
Speaker 2: clear there, Okay, so we know on the fourth of
35:29
Speaker 2: December he asked what's happening, like, why is the Syrian
35:32
Speaker 2: army not fighting? So clearly at that point he wasn't
35:35
Speaker 2: aware of what was happening. The second thing was he
35:39
Speaker 2: had already been in Moscow prior to coming back once
35:43
Speaker 2: the Aleppo operation had begun by the terrorist groups. So
35:47
Speaker 2: if he had free plans abandoning his country, why would
35:51
Speaker 2: he come back to Syria with his family, with his
35:54
Speaker 2: kids and put them in further danger? And from myes,
36:01
Speaker 2: I know that until the last minute, he wasn't prepared
36:04
Speaker 2: to stand down. Their opinion is that he was forced
36:08
Speaker 2: to both not respond to his closest people, and he
36:12
Speaker 2: was forced to leave Syria obviously probably under threat of
36:16
Speaker 2: death by HTS and so on. Until now nobody has
36:20
Speaker 2: heard from it. We assume he's in Russia under humanitarian asylum,
36:25
Speaker 2: not political asylum. So I haven't had time to look
36:28
Speaker 2: into the legal implications of that, but I have a
36:31
Speaker 2: hunch that it means if there are any requests, for
36:35
Speaker 2: for example, ICC prosecution of Asad because he's not under
36:40
Speaker 2: political asylum, is he then opened to prosecution by foreign
36:44
Speaker 2: governments for whatever crimes they concoct against him, and of course,
36:49
Speaker 2: like right now, we're watching everything getting laid back on
36:52
Speaker 2: his doorstep, right from chemical weapons to white helmets to
36:57
Speaker 2: mass grades. I mean, it's which of course is detracting
37:01
Speaker 2: from the Israeli genocidal crimes against Palestinians. Also, I mean,
37:05
Speaker 2: I'm happy to talk about the Hamas issue, but i
37:08
Speaker 2: just want to clear out everything that I have so
37:11
Speaker 2: far on the situation and leading up to, for example,
37:15
Speaker 2: the full horrendo of the country. And if we look
37:18
Speaker 2: at the language in the Western media. Now, now, I
37:22
Speaker 2: know we don't trust Western media, but we also know
37:26
Speaker 2: that it's used to put out certain narratives in order
37:30
Speaker 2: to normalize them in advance of something happening, right, And
37:35
Speaker 2: we're seeing the likes of Reuters and Bloomberg. Bloomberg in
37:38
Speaker 2: particular talking about Ukraine is preparing itself to have to
37:44
Speaker 2: accept bitter negotiations with Russia meaning loss of territory. Right,
37:51
Speaker 2: So it's being clearly stated by mainstream media. Putin in
37:55
Speaker 2: his press conference said that he's prepared to speak to Trump,
37:58
Speaker 2: which in Russi language means yes, I'll speak to Trump
38:02
Speaker 2: or I've already spoken to Trump through negotiators. He's also
38:06
Speaker 2: speaking about maintaining a military based in Syria. He can't
38:10
Speaker 2: maintain a military based in Syria without reliance on Turkey
38:14
Speaker 2: for their security inside Syria. At the same time, he's
38:19
Speaker 2: decamping to Libya Central Libya, where again he's reliant on
38:25
Speaker 2: Turkey's reassurances because Turkey has control of the eastern sector
38:29
Speaker 2: of Libya and the coastal area pretty much. So we
38:33
Speaker 2: have a situation now where Russia needs Turkey. It needs
38:36
Speaker 2: Turkey for its raw materials transit, it needs Turkey to
38:41
Speaker 2: assure its presence in Syria and its safety in Syria.
38:45
Speaker 2: Because we've seen images of HDS like throwing rocks at
38:50
Speaker 2: Russian convoys. They don't want them. That HGS doesn't want
38:53
Speaker 2: them in Syria. The only reason that they will tolerate
38:57
Speaker 2: their presence is if Turkey and the UK and the
39:01
Speaker 2: US agree to it. And why would the US agree
39:03
Speaker 2: to it unless a deal has been done.
39:05
Speaker 1: Does HTS actually have the capability of shifting Russia from
39:09
Speaker 1: those businesses.
39:10
Speaker 2: But they can make life very difficult for We've seen
39:14
Speaker 2: mysterious electrical buyers happen in a lepo and so on
39:17
Speaker 2: and so forth. So I mean, it would be very easy,
39:20
Speaker 2: and HDS doesn't have control of all of the elements.
39:23
Speaker 2: What about the church and extremists. Who's to say that
39:26
Speaker 2: they're not going to attack the Russian Bran.
39:28
Speaker 1: We're nearly out of time for this episode and we
39:31
Speaker 1: welcome on to the Hamas thing in a second. But
39:34
Speaker 1: just before we do, is the balkanization of the country
39:38
Speaker 1: are likely? I'd come still at this stage or have
39:42
Speaker 1: things shifted somewhat to make that less likely?
39:45
Speaker 2: No, it's done. I mean Syria is now a borderless,
39:49
Speaker 2: defenseless strip of land.
39:51
Speaker 1: This is an expression of the career is Reel project.
39:54
Speaker 2: Then yeah, well we do have an element of kind
39:57
Speaker 2: of possible conflict there, of course, because Turkey has its
40:02
Speaker 2: own or other one has his own neo Ottoman empire
40:05
Speaker 2: agenda which involves the Muslim Brotherhood and so that's in
40:11
Speaker 2: partnership with Katar. And of course they are talking about
40:14
Speaker 2: the pipeline project that was shelved by a SAD which
40:18
Speaker 2: led to the regime change war. Was one of the
40:20
Speaker 2: factors that led to the regime change war in twenty
40:23
Speaker 2: eleven because turned down the Katari pipeline in favor of
40:28
Speaker 2: the Iranian Russian pipeline. So you have Heerduwan, who at
40:32
Speaker 2: the moment is collaborating with Israel to achieve what they
40:35
Speaker 2: both want. Inside Syria, Israel is going for positioning itself
40:41
Speaker 2: in order to be able to attack Damascus at any
40:44
Speaker 2: time that it wants to, should Damascus become again a
40:49
Speaker 2: threat to Israel, which isn't going to happen under HDS.
40:52
Speaker 2: Johnnie has made it very clear that he's not going
40:54
Speaker 2: to engage with Israel. He's not going to allow Syrian
40:58
Speaker 2: territory to be used to attack well, and he's going
41:01
Speaker 2: to ensure the expulsion of Iranian and has Bala forces
41:05
Speaker 2: from inside Syria. So he's complying with Israel. At the
41:09
Speaker 2: same time, Israel is taking control of bearing in mind
41:12
Speaker 2: that from the occupied Goland territory, Israel takes thirty percent
41:16
Speaker 2: of its water supply. Now it's taking control of the
41:20
Speaker 2: Yamuk base and the Yamuck River, the dam which provides
41:25
Speaker 2: hydro electricity for Syria and drinking water for Jordan, the
41:29
Speaker 2: huge percentage of clean water. It's clearly not only about
41:34
Speaker 2: the partitioning of land. This is also about the appropriation
41:37
Speaker 2: of resources, and in particular water and We've been saying
41:40
Speaker 2: for a very long time that hydro hegemony is going
41:42
Speaker 2: to become even more important than energy, resource hegimony and
41:47
Speaker 2: resource crop. At the moment, you're seeing, let's say, a
41:51
Speaker 2: cooperative partitioning of Syria. But how long is this going
41:55
Speaker 2: to last? And how long before they start fighting over
41:58
Speaker 2: the resources that are within Syria? How long before the
42:02
Speaker 2: Arn't groups start fighting amongst themselves because they disagree ideologically,
42:07
Speaker 2: or the Veigas think that they should own Syria for
42:10
Speaker 2: their color fate over and beyond the uzbekistanis the afghaniese,
42:14
Speaker 2: the Hds and the Syrians. I mean, they're already putting
42:17
Speaker 2: out this kind of messaging. So, yes, this is about
42:21
Speaker 2: partitioning Syria between Israel, the US Alliance. French horses are
42:27
Speaker 2: all over Damascus right now, obviously trying to reassert their
42:31
Speaker 2: colonial identity inside Syria. But as I said, Syria is
42:35
Speaker 2: now basically a strip of land that is borderlos defenseless,
42:40
Speaker 2: has no military and is incapable of preventing any of
42:44
Speaker 2: this happening.
42:45
Speaker 1: Let's just end then with a brief look at the
42:48
Speaker 1: Hamas situation. And the question is ideologically, because as you've
42:53
Speaker 1: said to me. In the recent past, the leadership of
42:56
Speaker 1: Hamas has been heavily changed as a result of the
43:01
Speaker 1: actions of Israel in Gaza. And so is it the
43:04
Speaker 1: case that we now have a leadership of Hamas which
43:07
Speaker 1: is more ideologically aligned with the HTS than the previous
43:11
Speaker 1: leadership had been. And so the question stands, why is
43:15
Speaker 1: HTS not supporting that resistance?
43:18
Speaker 2: Oh, because that leadership has no intention of resisting, because
43:23
Speaker 2: that leadership, which is Khaled michell was very much sidelines
43:27
Speaker 2: after twenty seventeen by sadness, Ronda.
43:31
Speaker 1: Sorry, we're talking about the current Hamas leadership.
43:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, the current Hamath leadership, which is Kaled hahalad Micheal,
43:38
Speaker 2: was responsible for the betrayal Materia. So the Muslim Brotherhood,
43:42
Speaker 2: which is the group that is being weaponized by Turkey,
43:46
Speaker 2: by Katar and by the worst against the Syrian governments
43:49
Speaker 2: since long before twenty eleven, I mean, the history of
43:53
Speaker 2: the Muslim Brotherhood interference in Syria at the behest of
43:57
Speaker 2: the enemies of Syria goes way back. I've written about those,
44:01
Speaker 2: you know.
44:01
Speaker 3: After nineteen forty six onwards, the MIE six and CIA
44:05
Speaker 3: were involved in regime chained operations in Syria, which resulted
44:09
Speaker 3: in the use of the Muslim Brotherhood multiple times, to
44:12
Speaker 3: top of various governments that were aligned with the Soviet
44:15
Speaker 3: Union or Russia at the time.
44:17
Speaker 2: So you now have Khaled Michelle back in control of Hummers.
44:21
Speaker 2: You have in Syria itself HTS shutting down, for example,
44:27
Speaker 2: the Palestinian Brigades that were part of the Syrian Arab
44:30
Speaker 2: Army and were loyal to the Syrian army and to
44:33
Speaker 2: the Syrian government, the shutting down of the PFLP, the
44:38
Speaker 2: Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, and the Islamic
44:42
Speaker 2: you had and SORN. So all of the resistance factions
44:46
Speaker 2: that are not aligned with HAMMERS have been shut down
44:49
Speaker 2: inside Syria. They've been told they can stay, but only
44:53
Speaker 2: as refugees. They can't stay, they can't have arms, they
44:57
Speaker 2: can't form resistance. So all of the resil that was
45:00
Speaker 2: operating from inside Syria is now completely disbanded, and Hamas
45:05
Speaker 2: now is aligned with the Turkish and Katari agenda and
45:10
Speaker 2: therefore with HTS and the SNA formerly fre Assyrian Army
45:16
Speaker 2: and SUN. Now what you will see and you are
45:20
Speaker 2: seeing it from Israel, is pressure on Jordan to pay
45:24
Speaker 2: the Palestinian refugees from inside Grazan and basically what's being
45:28
Speaker 2: threatened through Israeli media and through Israeli statements as if
45:32
Speaker 2: they don't, then there will be regime change in Jordan,
45:36
Speaker 2: or there will be infiltration by the Muslim brotherhood elements
45:40
Speaker 2: from inside Syria, which of course then brings them together
45:44
Speaker 2: with the now remodeled re remodeled from US under Khalad Michal.
45:51
Speaker 2: So that's why you're now seeing a reversal to Hamas's
45:55
Speaker 2: position three twenty seventeen, which was a betrayal of the
46:00
Speaker 2: excess of resistance and habitrayal of Syria and your own
46:03
Speaker 2: and all of these factions that we're fighting for Palestinian
46:07
Speaker 2: liberation and justice.
46:09
Speaker 1: Some people have been recently criticizing Arabs for being their
46:13
Speaker 1: own worst enemy. Is that a fair point.
46:16
Speaker 2: No, Look, this is an incredibly racist point because white
46:21
Speaker 2: people in the West were completely manipulated and falled by
46:24
Speaker 2: the COVID project. So imagine you have more than a
46:28
Speaker 2: century of Western intelligence interference and manipulation and intervention in
46:37
Speaker 2: your region's affairs, the carving up of your region, the
46:42
Speaker 2: creation of extremist sectarian groups under the control of the
46:46
Speaker 2: West to foment sectarian division in those countries, the creation
46:52
Speaker 2: of an entire media complex to create fear, to manipulate,
46:58
Speaker 2: to to increase sectarian divisions, and to use them to
47:06
Speaker 2: turn bribes, faiths, communities against each other. You wouldn't survive
47:11
Speaker 2: in the West. You wouldn't survive five minutes of that
47:15
Speaker 2: before you've been tearing each other's throat.
47:18
Speaker 1: Well, I would argue, we're seeing exactly that at the moment.
47:22
Speaker 1: Since COVID, we have absolutely seen exactly this type of thing.
47:25
Speaker 2: Yes, So don't you dare turn around a point a
47:29
Speaker 2: finger at the Arabs who've been resisting this for an
47:32
Speaker 2: awful lot longer than Westerners have, and with far more
47:35
Speaker 2: awareness than Westerners. But it's overwhelming force. It's overwhelming military force,
47:42
Speaker 2: it's overwhelming intelligence force, it's overwhelming economic force, it's overwhelming
47:51
Speaker 2: political force, diplomatic force, the Yuan, or every single institution
47:57
Speaker 2: that should be assuring the Arabs of affair hearing has
48:01
Speaker 2: been totally corrupted and compromised from the beginning of the
48:05
Speaker 2: Palestinian issue. So from nineteen seventeen onwards, Palestinian voices were
48:12
Speaker 2: absolutely silent. Journalists were deported, the Palestinian voice was not
48:18
Speaker 2: allowed to be heard from the very beginning, right and
48:22
Speaker 2: even under the last Trump administration Nataniel who shut down
48:26
Speaker 2: the Nakbar archives, so people can't even access the Palestinian
48:30
Speaker 2: archives telling the history of the ethnic cleansing in nineteen
48:35
Speaker 2: forty eight. So people who turn against the Arabs because
48:41
Speaker 2: they have been infiltrated by their governments, I find that
48:45
Speaker 2: absolutely abhorrent and racist and utterly unfair. Why aren't those
48:52
Speaker 2: when those people are calling for Palestinians to rise up
48:55
Speaker 2: against the Palestinian authority for example, why aren't those people
49:01
Speaker 2: focusing on rising up against their regime? Why aren't they
49:04
Speaker 2: rising up against the UK regime or the US regime
49:07
Speaker 2: that is behind what is happening in Palestine and has
49:11
Speaker 2: been from the very beginning of the Zionist settler clonalist project.
49:17
Speaker 2: Why do they get off Scotfrey? Why is the finger
49:20
Speaker 2: pointed at Arabs to die? Because Western governments have created
49:25
Speaker 2: the hell that they're living in right now, Point the
49:27
Speaker 2: finger at your own government. Do something against your own
49:31
Speaker 2: government for once, because this is coming to you, It's
49:34
Speaker 2: already come to you, and you're not going to find
49:37
Speaker 2: Arabs pointing the finger at you, and so see, like
49:40
Speaker 2: stupid Westerners, they fall for it every time. It's disgusting.
49:44
Speaker 2: I'm disgusted by people that have done that.
49:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, okay, well, thank you very much Vanessa for
49:51
Speaker 1: joining me today. That has been again another fascinating conversation.
49:55
Speaker 1: I'm quite sure we're going to do more because there's
49:59
Speaker 1: so much more to un park, and of course events
50:02
Speaker 1: will move on.
50:03
Speaker 2: And can I just say again also that this is
50:06
Speaker 2: based on what I know now great, and as I
50:10
Speaker 2: work on this and as more information comes to light,
50:13
Speaker 2: which it's going to, I'm not saying it's good, it's
50:16
Speaker 2: going to change what I already know, but it might
50:19
Speaker 2: add a greater complexity to it and more nuance to it.
50:23
Speaker 2: So I'm not at this stage kind of concluding anything.
50:27
Speaker 2: I'm just working through it in a in a as
50:30
Speaker 2: logical rational way as I possibly can.
50:33
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you very much, fascinating conversation and we'll
50:37
Speaker 1: see you next time.
50:38
Speaker 2: Happy Christmas everyone,