Latest / Learnings and Missteps by Depth Builder / Insights from Brett Bartley on Financial Strategy and Trade Industry Success

Transcript

Insights from Brett Bartley on Financial Strategy and Trade Industry Success · Learnings and Missteps by Depth Builder

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The most impactful thing I've ever seen is, all of a sudden you're looking around at your organization identifying who the next leaders are going to be and then pushing them outside of their comfort zone and having them explore opportunity they never even fathomed.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: And all of a sudden you look two, three years down the road and these people are in management positions where they were doing some clerical function before, are in management positions where they were doing some clerical function before, and it's just because they have the initiative and the drive and the attitude to go out there each and every day and succeed and get the job done.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: What is going on?
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: L&m family.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: I got a special friend that I get to introduce to you today from San Antonio.
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: Well, I don't know if he's from San Antonio, but I met him in San Antonio.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: We've connected a few times here in the Deuce Dime.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: His name is Mr Brett Bartley and he's a baller.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: He has massive experience in growing the Gibson Plumbing Company to become one of the largest plumbing organizations in Texas and that's saying a lot because you know everything's bigger in Texas.
• 1:06
  Speaker 2: He grew sales from 20 million to over 112 million annual revenue and all you entrepreneurs out there you know those are big numbers and that takes a pretty robust system to have it be a recurring situation.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: And he did it like a magical transition, which I'm really interested in, going from hourly pay to production-based pay, and I'm going to see if I can pull any nuggets out of that.
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: We met because he was a founding member of the TCCI, which is Texan Construction Career Initiative and a San Antonio construction career fair that has hosts and has hosted thousands of students over the years high school students, introducing them to careers in the trades.
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: He's a licensed CPA in the state of Texas, father of two, two beautiful young ladies, and I didn't know this until I read the bio.
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: He's a former member of the University of Houston baseball team, so I'm a former baseball burnout.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: So I think we'll touch on that a little bit.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: And now on to Mr Brett Bartley.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Mr Brett, how you doing, my friend?
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: I'm doing great.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: Jeffy.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: How are you buddy?
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: Oh man, I'm having fun here.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: I don't know, it's August and I was whining a little bit about how warm it was out and I'm like, well, wait a minute, it's August, it's supposed to be this warm right now.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: Hey and Leith, they're getting rain this year Because in years past, 90 days of pain, no rain, oh yeah 90 days of pain and 15, 20 plus days of triple digits.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: So hopefully we won't see that this year, but it's a pretty big year.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: So you and I reconnected not too long ago and you've made a transition recently in your career.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: That's right.
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I went from running Gibson Plumbing Company and the owner and I parted ways about a year ago to now becoming a fractional CFO.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: Just by happenstance.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: I kind of lucked into it.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: A member company of a peer group I was a part of they needed some financial help and knew my background on the finance side and they reached out and one thing led to another and I've grown the business.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: I've got three clients looking to bring on more and looking to grow.
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: Man phenomenal.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: The reason I say phenomenal is having been playing around on my end trying to start my own business.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: I just know how much there is to learn and understand, which you've built.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: A tremendous amount of experience with Gibson Plumbing and so, I mentioned earlier, you're a CPA, former baseball player of D1, like Houston.
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: Did you always know you were going to be working in the finance space, or what was the evolution of all of that?
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great question.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: I didn't.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: My dad owned a car wash in Houston.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: He was an attorney and kind of an entrepreneur as well.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: He opened up a general contracting company and I remember vividly growing up in Houston during the summer he had me work as a plumbing helper, digging ditches and just basically grunt work, doing whatever.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: And I tell you, when the plumber asked me to dig a ditch, he wanted it six foot down and he wanted it squared off and all that stuff.
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: And just he said go.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: And then it came back about an hour and a half later and I was about three feet down with this narrow looking trench.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: It was horrible.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: And the guy said move out of the way.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: And then he brought in the professional and within an hour they had a nice six foot ditch squared side the whole thing.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: And that's when I knew my future was probably not into that, it was probably going to have to be somewhere else and looking to find that and which.
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: I tell you what, though?
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: It gave me a whole new respect to those people, the guys that get out there and do it every day, because it's an art and we don't appreciate it enough.
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: That appreciation for the trades and what they can bring.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: That's where we connected, and getting people into the trades, I think, is a fantastic thing and something that you and I are both passionate about.
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: But back to your question.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: I went to college.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Baseball kind of took me there.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: I spent two years in junior college baseball and then transferred to the University of Houston.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: I was privileged enough to be able to play there.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: Throughout that experience I found that accounting was kind of my niche.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: I liked making the numbers balance.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: I was good at addition and subtraction, not much else in math, but I knew I could do that If I could just make it balanced.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: I had it whipped, I got into that and one thing led to another and I started with Cisco Food Services and worked 13 years with them and then after that's when I met Barry Bankler and started the whole Gibson journey.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: Wow, I love that you say you're good at addition and subtraction.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: I hate to admit this to you, brett, but if you would look at my methodology of tracking my finances, especially my business finances, you would throw me in the ditch, because I got some explaining to do.
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: I got some work to do in that area.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: You don't just have money coming in and have no reason why.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: You have no understanding of why it's coming in, do you?
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: I know?
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: I know?
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know I of why it's coming in, do you?
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: I know?
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: I know, yeah, I know, I know where it's coming in.
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: I know the buttons I'm pushing to kind of make that happen.
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: I have an understanding of what my costs are, but I'm not like it's in my head.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: I don't have.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: You know what I was like straight up.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: I don't have a P&L statement.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: I don't have any budgeted buckets for anything.
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: I know what my monthly recurring revenue is.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: I know what my targets are.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: I know what's outstanding, who I need to bug.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: That's actually on my calendar for today to follow up with counts receivable.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: I've got that but it's in my head, which for now is fine.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: But at the rate things are going, it's not going to be fine very much longer.
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: That's right, it's going to be a mess, just like editing.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: Eventually you want to pass that off to somebody and have them do that and worry about all that.
• 7:16
  Speaker 2: Yes, sir, yes sir, you got it.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: So I love the story about you digging a ditch, and some folks may not understand.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: You got to dig it square on the sides and if you don't know how to dig like, it sounds like something simple, the way to accomplish that goal six foot D or whatever it was.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: Six foot deep, 12 foot long, square on the sides.
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: There are some precise behaviors, precise actions and techniques to make that happen, would you?
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: agree with that?
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: Oh, totally.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: If you or I went out and we were to run, or told to run, a jackhammer all day long, we'd wake up the next morning and be in lockdown.
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: Man, you're right, it's just.
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: Those are things that people all take for granted, and I'll tell pretty soon.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure we're going to be able to find anybody to dig a ditch, because I don't think the common person wants to do that, and I think that's why there's so much money in taxing and in the trades, because not a lot of people want to work outside in the heat or in the cold and do the things that are necessary to keep the infrastructure going that we're so accustomed to in the States.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and we've done.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: I'll say we, in terms of the industry, we have not done a great job in terms of adapting to, we'll just say, the generational differences and, maybe more appropriately, the way we communicate and listen or don't listen.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: Back in the day when I was an apprentice, when I was getting yelled at and all the good stuff, if I knew that I could make 30 grand sitting at home in my flip flops or go out in the sun and get yelled at and screamed at, you better believe that I would stay home and make that money from my computer.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: So back in our time, we had to go and apply, like fill out paper to apply for a job, right, like that was the only way we were going to get a job.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: It ain't like that, no more.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: So we've got the industry, the gray hairs like us we need to adapt to, and I've seen a lot of there's a lot of forward thinking organizations out there that really are making an initiative or like making the right moves to not just attract people but retain the people they got.
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: And so the old, you just got to work.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: If you want to work, put your head down and work.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: And if you want feedback you get your check on Friday.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: If it's only one, that's feedback that you got a job.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: If it's two, that's feedback that you suck.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: What do you think?
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: No, I think it's a great point.
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: I mean, I was talking to a guy the other day.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: He runs a plumbing company here locally and he said the generation it's just not like it was.
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: And long ago are the days where you can just put an apprentice with a plumber and then go out there and he's yelling at the apprentice all day long.
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: People don't put up with that anymore.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: You have to create an environment where there's engagement, where the apprentice has a future and a path that they're going down and they know each step of the way how they're doing and they're getting that feedback and that becomes a recurring theme.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: Otherwise you lose people and it can be the best paying career in God, but you know, people just don't put up with that and good on them.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: I don't think they have to put up with that.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, we both feel the same way.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: Why should you?
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: Why should you get yelled at every day?
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: Because it's quite honestly, it's hard enough to find people that are just going to show up consistently, day by day.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Yes, and once you find that and you find somebody with that initiative and drive, you need to hook them in and you need to put your hooks on them and make sure they keep coming back and provide that future.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: Provide the conditions for them to thrive and grow and people will stay.
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: Like you said, I really wait.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: When I see some of the younger folks out there, I'm like damn man.
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: They're like phenomenal advocates for themselves.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: And I'm like.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: I could learn a lot from you, because, man, for too many years I just sat back and waited for somebody to notice me and well, you know me like I'm not that quiet, but for a little bit, for a little while, like man, like what?
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: Anyways, my point is they're fabulous advocates for themselves.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: They're not going to tolerate a lot of BS.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: And then, the way the market is, you do them wrong, they're going to have three offers on the way home period, right.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: So you got to do something.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Now, the other interesting thing is and it's where I'm focusing my energy is, yes, we need more people, but there's so much waste like wasted effort, wasted labor hours, et cetera.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: That's inherent in the way we do construction, and that's commercial, residential, doesn't matter.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: And what I really want to pick apart is this thing that you did, that you went from hourly compensation to productivity-based compensation.
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: What was it that got you there to say, wait a minute, there's another way to do this.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: But before we get into that, I want to give the L&M family member shout out.
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: And this shout out goes to two people that are doing the behind the scenes wizardry Mr Angel and Mr Rene.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: Y'all might recognize Rene.
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: Rene originally was the co-host, my baby brother.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: He fired me and then he offered me the opportunity to let him edit these podcast interviews and his buddy Angel they connected, and both of them.
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: When y'all hear the episode and see all the cool, fancy little clips, it is a result of their hard work and I'm super appreciative of it.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: So give them, boys, a shout out.
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: Rest of the family members out there, send me a comment, send me a like, send me whatever so that I can shout you out, because it's like the ultimate for me to know that at least one person's listening.
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: Now that's a great question.
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: That's one of the things I learned when I was at Cisco Food Services.
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: We were looking to take our hourly drivers off of hourly pay and pay them back by the cases they delivered and the miles they drove on a daily basis, and that's kind of where I learned that principle.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: And the most beautiful thing about that is, if you do it right, all of a sudden you're left with the people that are actually doing the work anyway and they're putting in the time, they're putting in the blood, sweat and tears to do the job correctly and all of a sudden they start making exponentially more money.
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: And so now you're rewarding that type of behavior because those guys are taking on money that they've never seen before.
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: And that's the same thing we did at Gibson, and that's one of the things that I was a good fit when Barry brought me in to Gibson is he knew that I had that background, and what we did was we took the common tasks, the routine tasks that were done every day, and let's just pick apart like a rough end for a house.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Well, rough end for a house.
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: We know how many bathroom grooves are downstairs, and then you're obviously sending a three inch pipe upstairs.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: Based on the number of stacks, you can start formulating well, how many hours should that take?
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: And we set up the model, we tracked it and we ran it parallel with what our guys were doing on a daily basis.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: We figured out if that would work or not.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: We made tweaks to it and then we started rolling it out and we took an average guy.
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: And we took an average guy with a good attitude.
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: We knew that he had the desire to do it and all of a sudden our hourly plumbers went from making 17, 20 bucks an hour to now they're making 35, 40 bucks an hour, because those were the guys that were working, the guys that were just there to collect hours.
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: All of a sudden guess what?
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: They're not there anymore because they don't know if they can make it doing what they're doing, and they probably can't because they're not being productive.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: So all of a sudden, you take an hour.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: You take an hourly plumber making 50, $60,000 and now he's pushing over a hundred, a hundred, $120,000 a year.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: That's life changing and I think that's where you and I have a lot in common and that's where we're passionate.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: You start making, you start changing people's lives and making a life and a career and you're improving their life and their career.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: That's what's so awesome about business is we have that opportunity, especially as business owners, to sit there and make those life-impacting changes for people.
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's a mutual benefit right.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: So the program that you did benefited the plumbers and it also had some business impact, like you weren't just doing it as a community service right, like you were growing the business, and I imagine that helped you gain more market share and expand beyond San Antonio and so forth.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: No, that's a great point.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: All of a sudden, we had a model that others didn't and we're able to cut our workforce in half because now we've got all the productive people on board.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: They want more, they're absorbing more work and all of a sudden you grow your capacity of the amount of works you can handle with the same amount of people.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: So you have less drivers out there on the road, you've got less fuel that you're burning and you're getting more productivity.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: And your guys are doing a.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: They're chewing up the work.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: And the main thing, when you go through something like that, you've got to keep an eye on quality.
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you're going to get people who are cutting all the corners because they're there to be efficient, get in, get out Right, and if there's a discussion that isn't secured or isn't caught through the wall, they may or may not take care of that.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: So you've got to really manage that quality.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because any system, I believe I'm a firm believer that any system, two things can happen.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: One, it can be manipulated, and two, it can be weaponized.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: Meaning it's clear to me that going from hourly production, hourly compensation, to production based compensation, there was an intent, there was a business value there and the individuals could earn money, but it could be weaponized.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: In my career, where I started kind of factoring in like lunches and half days on Fridays, if people, if we hit certain production measurements because I knew right, if we got to install a hundred foot of pipe in a week for 40 hours per person and we install 120 feet, well that's a 20% improvement, which is eight hours of labor that I technically gained.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: 20% improvement, which is eight hours of labor that I technically gained.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: So leave at lunch, I'm going to pay you the whole day.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm losing four hours of production time, but I'm rewarding you for the extra four hours of production time that we got.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: Yep, and then once I, once I could see the team do that, I would raise the expectation week after week after week.
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: Guess what happened?
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: They stopped.
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: They're like you know what, forget it.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: Like you're.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: You're running us ragged.
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: You're always moving the goalposts Like this isn't cool, because one week they hit 120, the next week they hit 95 and I'm losing my mind.
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: But 95 is pretty pretty not bad.
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: And so that was me weaponizing the situation where eventually I matured and said, okay, if 120 is the thing, 120 is the thing and just let it be the 120 and we can learn and maybe adjust our estimates going forward.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: More importantly, I've eventually got to a point where it was like, instead of just saying go faster, let me study the guys that are hitting the 120.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: What is it that they're doing?
• 18:59
  Speaker 2: How are they doing the work and how can I copy paste their method to optimize other people's process?
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: And that worked out pretty well.
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: Now, again, that was just on the poor guys that got stuck working on my projects.
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: They're the ones that had to deal with that.
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: It wasn't an organizational thing, but in your case, this was an enterprise-wide movement and you mentioned it.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: But I want to make sure people don't miss it, because I know there's some ambitious L&M family members out there.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: Like that's what we need to do.
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: We need to go to performance-based compensation, but you will have an exodus I know when I've been in those situations.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: As soon as you raise that bar.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: You adopt transparency, increase accountability.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: People will leave quick, super fast.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: What was that like?
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: Did y'all anticipate that happening, or did it kind of come out of left field?
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: We kind of knew it was going to happen.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: We knew we were going to have some attrition.
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: Understanding how much attrition that we were going to have was, I think, an eye opener.
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: But it was also an eye opener to understand that we're going to be left with the most productive people and they're going to be able to absorb all the work.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, you feel bad on to some degree about the guys are just out there collecting hours but, quite honestly, they're not being productive and they're not.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: They don't have the best intentions of the company at mind, and we have to have a strong company to be able to afford a good living for the rest of the people that are there.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, a hundred percent.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: Well, you may not know this, but my dad used to work for Gibson back in the eighties, maybe up until the early nineties.
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: He worked there multiple times.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: All I remember is driving them down or they offer WW white.
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: They're in that area.
• 20:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I just yeah, I just remember.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: Oh, we gotta go pick up, dad.
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: It's hot out there.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: There's nothing out there.
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: That was way back in the day, man, but but jeff getting back to your point about giving the guys that friday afternoon off, I think it's so critical nowadays to understand what motivates people and, yes, you can't just manage everybody like they're a robot.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: Back to our original point.
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: If you get somebody that has the qualities and traits, you need to embrace that guy and keep him close to the vest because, like you say, there's going to be other opportunities for somebody who wants to make a better life for themselves and is motivated to do so.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: And some guys are motivated by time off.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: We're starting to see a lot of that nowadays.
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: People and I shouldn't say guys, because women are productive, if not more productive than guys nowadays but some people want time off, some people want more pay, some people it's just you run the gamut and we've got to be flexible and have those weekly conversations and check-ins with people so we know exactly where they're coming from.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: Just because Jeffy likes a half day on Friday, well, you may have another person who wants to work that half day on Friday and make more money.
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: It's just you know, you don't know without being engaged.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: There's two key things you said there.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: One so people, if y'all don't know out there, if you want something from me, there's two key things you said there.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: One if some people, if y'all don't know out there, if you want something from me, there's two ways.
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: Flatter me, schedule a parade for me.
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: You'll get anything you want from me.
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: And give me some food, some pastries, some yummy, delicious, greasy, high fat, high salt food.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: And you got me.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: Challenging me, like trying to push me and say, oh man, you can do better.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: That does not motivate me at all.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: Trying to push me and say, oh man, you can do better, that does not motivate me at all.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: Yell at me and scream at me.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: I got my butt chewed so many times it's like whatever, but if you pat me on the back, it's I'm.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: You got me and so there's a testament there, because we scheduled this over lunch, yeah so, and I tried to buy lunch, but you wouldn't let me.
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: I don't know why that was, but anyway, but I'm grateful to be here.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: I feel honored.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, man.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you knew, you already knew.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: He said let's get this guy some food.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: It's because we didn't have the strawberry cake.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: Man, if we would have had the strawberry cake, I would have done anything.
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: But understanding that we all have different motivators.
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: Some of us are intrinsically motivated.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: Some of us are extrinsically motivated.
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: Nobody walks around with a sign on their chest that says this is what motivates me.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: And the only way to find that out is, like you said, it's small but it's gigantic is having weekly, regular check-ins, small conversations, to better understand the person in front of us.
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: Now I know how powerful that is.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: I've been in the industry since 95.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: I've worked with hundreds of leaders and I'm just going to say, brett, it's probably 20 to 25 leaders that I've been able to see witness them do that with high efficacy.
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: Most leaders suck at it, and so and I'm talking like white collar leaders, right, the project executives and general managers and department heads it felt like the closer we get to the field, the worse we are at it.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: And so when you were making when y'all were making these shifts over at Gibson I imagine there was some, not just the production shifts, but you had to invest some resources in leadership development and personnel development.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: What did that look like?
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Well, now, that's a great point, jesse, because now we're in a boat where everybody's getting paid based on production.
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: So no longer is Paul like the designated trainer.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: Well, they're all out there being as productive as they can.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: So what we did was we just said okay, if it's a crew of two, now we're going to put a guy out there.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: We're not going to charge you for this guy, we just want you to train him.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: And we had a guy that was setting fixtures for us.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: I remember this vividly.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: His wife was a teacher, joe Enriquez, and he knew exactly how long it took to set a kitchen faucet.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: He knew down to the minute.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: We knew exactly how long it ought to take to set a water heater.
• 25:51
  Speaker 1: And that's exactly what he'd do.
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: That third guy on the truck.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: He'd be walking him around and saying, okay, I need that water heater set in 15 minutes.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: This is how you do it.
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: I'm going to walk you through one or two so you kind of get the flavor of it, the feel of it, but then I'm going to start timing you and sit back and you're going to do it and you find these guys that are just attending gyms and, quite honestly, you you didn't even know that about them until you gave them this opportunity.
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, now, bam, they bluffed them and when you're seeing this right before your eyes.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: And joe was so good, he had like a playbook, he knew every task in a house and the time it took and he'd share it with them and he was one of the best trainers I've ever seen in doing that and we were able to grow crews because of his effort.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: Wow, yeah, that's a special cat.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: He knew it was 15 minutes to tie in this water heater and he didn't just say go tie it in and you got 15 minutes or you're going to have to pound sand.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: He said let me show you how to do it.
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: This is how you do it.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: This is how precisely how I do it in 15 minutes.
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: And then he's I'm sure he observed and said oh, I'm going to do this way, backing up, try this way.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Okay, now you got it.
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: Now you just need reps so that you can get to the 15 minute mark.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: Which what's the relationship between that and being a high caliber baseball player?
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: Brett?
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: oh boy.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: Well, are you talking about the training that it takes?
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Are you talking about well and let's first of all high caliber?
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: Let's take that out of the equation.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: I was good enough.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: I was good enough to play so high caliber Otherwise we'd be talking about my major league career and we're not Got it.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: But it's the same thing we do.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: How to hit a curveball?
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: It's repetition.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: You see somebody do it.
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: You start trying to figure out how you're going to pick up the pitch out of the pitcher's hand, what exactly that spin is going to look like, what that arm angle is going to look like, and then it's just.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: From that point you understand okay, this is going to be the arc of the ball.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: This is what I might have to do.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: If it starts here.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: I'm going to have to take it because that's going to be a ball.
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: Otherwise, this coming out of this box or this window, that looks to be a strike and you're making split second decisions and you've got to.
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: It's those millions of times that you've gone through that effort that it takes to get to acquire that talent, and I think it's the same thing in our work life, especially in the trades, is.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: It's the?
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: It almost becomes muscle memory after time.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: It's like the trades is, it's the, it almost becomes muscle memory after time.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: It's like I'm gonna go step that water hinger and I just kind of I'll close my eyes, but I know exactly what I need to do and how fast I need to do it and what all the muscles I need to use to install that.
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: so I I think there is some there?
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: yeah, 100.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: I mean what I heard is the details right, like what you just described around picking up a curve, picking up the ball in the hand of the pitcher.
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: Where are his fingers in relationship to the seams?
• 29:02
  Speaker 2: What's his angle?
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: Where's the release point?
• 29:05
  Speaker 2: I didn't think about that until it was too late.
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: Just go up there and hit the ball, make contact, right, pretend you're hitting the pitcher's head.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: No, there are precise things that happen over and over and over again that we can look at and tweak and adjust to increase the output of what it is we're seeking, which is the same thing as installation in the field.
• 29:27
  Speaker 2: Right, go and install a water heater.
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: I don't need my spud wrench for that.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: I don't need my may, not need my turbo torch for that.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: I sure as hell don't need a jackhammer for that.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: Right, there's a, there's specific tools that I need to do that task and I use them in a specific order all the time, every time, which is for me.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: That's kind of what I see.
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: I'm sure you've seen Moneyball and probably said, oh my God, this is amazing Phenomenal.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: Breaking it down into the leading indicators or the contributing factors that produce the outcome that we're seeking, and I see it all like.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: Now I get to geek out and I just did a study here recently in San Antonio and the woman that was working she was prepping hangers for the sheet metal crew and, man, she was working right.
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: Anybody that would have observed her would say she's working Like she's doing good and absolutely it was hot.
• 30:21
  Speaker 2: We're in the building, it's a renovation, there's no windows, it's just it sucks.
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: And so what I did was I mapped out her walking path For 45 minutes.
• 30:31
  Speaker 2: She was doing this work, out her walking path for 45 minutes.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: She was doing this work and most of her time was spent walking to get something, to move something, to deliver something, to get more stock, to go back to cut it, to deliver it.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: She wasn't screwing around, she wasn't slacking off, but her approach was not the most efficient approach and so I showed it to her.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: I'm like hey, look at this.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: She's like is that music?
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's you.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: And I said what if we had a little cart here right next to your cutting station and we just had all your stock rights?
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: Like, oh, my God, that would be good.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: I was like okay, and what if we set up your cutting station with a table and good, and she's like, oh man, then I won't have to bend over and reach.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: And I said, what if we had another card for you to pile up your stuff and take it all at one time to the guys instead of one piece at a time?
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: She's like, well, what would I do with the rest of my time?
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: I said exactly.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: But she saw like, wow, it's that finite, granular understanding of what's all happening in the work, what actually needs to happen in the work, and then closing the gap happen in the work and then closing the gap between the two.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: I think we can do that in all cases.
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: Now, as you were taking over the state with Gibson, I imagine you created a need for more people and so recruiting young talent or folks into apprenticeship.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: Is that what got you down this TCCI path or what was the origin of that?
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: Well, I think it was just finding people.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: I was lucky enough to run across some people who had the same common interests, but we all see very rewarding careers in the trades and I think what I was disgruntled about is everybody needs to go to college.
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: I have heard that crap over and over and really I had the feeling that the counselors, the whole school system is motivated to push kids into college, and you and I both know there's some people that are great with their hands that just don't have that aptitude.
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: They don't want that, and the worst thing I can see is the guy going to two years of college racking up a lot of debt when, versus going into the trade and getting paid to be trained in a career and getting full pay while he invests himself into a lifelong career where, and then two years after the fact he goes into that trade, he's making 20, 25 bucks an hour.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: His college friend has another two years of debt to rack out, and I think that's where that all started is because I was sick and tired of watching the kids go to rack this debt up and then coming back to us two years later and starting over in a career in the trades.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: Why not?
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: Let's celebrate the trade.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: Let's understand just what you talked about.
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: There are guys out there every day that understand exactly what it needs to take or what it takes to install a household of fixtures and how to do it efficiently and with quality and tradesmanship and really leaving behind a great product so that others can enjoy a beautiful home.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: And there's a lot of pride in that each and every day.
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: And I personally had a huge desire to see those people get into the trades and succeed, because I think there's a lot of opportunity and it's very rewarding.
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: And I used to joke all the time look at me.
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: I'm behind a desk all day.
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: What did I accomplish?
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: I moved paper from one side of the desk to the other side of the desk.
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: Great, I've really done something.
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: Today, I said you guys, look at what y'all do.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: You went and roughed in three, four houses in a day.
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: You went and installed these fixtures for others to enjoy and you're creating a better life for people.
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: And I think that's in construction, that's the opportunity we have and I think it should be celebrated.
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: And that's what we tried to do with GCCI and the construction careers is try to celebrate the trades, try to celebrate the subs that are out there and the work that we all do together to make this country great.
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, 100%.
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: And you know where I am on this idea.
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: I went to Tafoya Middle School.
• 34:46
  Speaker 2: I was in the multilingual program.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: All the classes I took were college geared.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: I couldn't take any vocational classes.
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: Everybody said you should go to college because you're smart and you're good at math.
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: You should be an engineer.
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, people would ask me what are you?
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: I'm going to be an engineer.
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: Oh, wow, I don't know what the hell an engineer does.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: Back then I had no idea.
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: I didn't even know what they looked like, but they told me it.
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: Anyhow.
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: Summer job, we were renovating Memorial High School and this was right after I graduated.
• 35:17
  Speaker 2: I was just going to try to ground jump some cash to pay for room and board because I was going to try to be a walk-on at Tyler Junior College.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: And man, I'm going to tell you I knew I'm not going to school.
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: I'm going to do this.
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: This is amazing, just the environment and all this stuff.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: And I'm going to say it was all is amazing, like just the environment and all this stuff.
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: And I'm going to say it was all the way until my third year of apprenticeship that I was embarrassed and ashamed that I didn't go to university because all of my friends did.
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: I've got a lot of really smart friends.
• 35:46
  Speaker 2: Well, how smart are they if they let me be their friend?
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: But that's a different conversation but very accomplished.
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: Even now they're all super accomplished people.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: I was like one of the few that didn't go and it wasn't until my third year of apprenticeship where I'm like I started realizing like oh wait, I'm making hell of money compared to my buddies that are still in school, like they're not even making money yet.
• 36:07
  Speaker 2: Then my mind started shifting and eventually it got to a point where it's like and nobody told me that I could make an amazing living and build a career in the trades.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: Like all I heard and it's funny because my dad's a plumber but my dad, he didn't want me to go through the same pain that he went through, right, he wanted me to have different level of comfort, which every parent wants that.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: But in the education system all I heard was go to college or flip burgers.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: Those are your choices.
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: Oh, and there's the military right.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: Like that was the extent of the horizon in terms of what my future had for me.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: And once I got into it, finished apprenticeship, got my licenses, started advancing within the company.
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: I'm like, holy hell, like anybody could do this provided they can tolerate certain conditions.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: And that's what motivated me Like, no, I need to start speaking more, get more engaged to help parents, students and educators understand the career options in construction.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: And that's where I think you and I first connected at one of the TCCI events.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my, that was amazing.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: So for people that don't know what that event is, I think you and I first connected at one of the TCCI events.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: I'm like, oh my, that was amazing.
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: So for people that don't know what that event is, can you describe that for them?
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: Well, that's an event and, quite honestly, I was more of the vision than the boots on the ground.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: I got to give a lot of credit to Spacey Gunderson, to Jerry Foster, to Forrester, to those guys, because they all made it happen.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: But what we did was we took a local subcontractor base.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: We got them together and united that, hey, we all are looking for talent and we all want to attract talent right out of high school.
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: That was the common theme.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: So we teamed up with the Bexar County Fairgrounds and that's where we had it, right there at AT&T Center, at the center, and we just had this idea of we can get a bunch of subs in and show what we do on a daily basis, because we do some cool stuff and especially nowadays there's advanced technology that we're all using.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: That's really cool.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: If we can get in front of these kids and bring them in to this event and show them and get some hands-on experience, we may actually start attracting some people right out of high school Because all of a sudden back to your point, which is, I think, is a great one now they're seeing, hey, there's other opportunities than going to college and hey, that's pretty cool and I really connect with those people.
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: That may be something that I can make a living at and I want to do because that's fun to me.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: And so we teamed up with this service center 20, which happens to be the regional center in charge of the local schools got the high schools to bus the kids in and we fed them lunch and we got them in front of the subs, and now the event we have a building event where these high school kids can show off, you know, their install and that's going on while other kids are getting the hands-on experience.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: And it's a it's a fun filled day, and this year it's going to be in November and we're all really looking forward to it because I think we're starting to gain momentum.
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: There's and kudos to you for what you're doing giving that message out, but I think that as powerful, if anything is okay.
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: Let's think about a plumber.
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: When you start as an apprentice, you get your tradesman license, you get your journeyman and all of a sudden, you get your master's.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: After four years, five years, whatever it takes to get the master's, now you have the opportunity to not only be a master plumber, you can go out and start your own business now, yep, and now the world is your oyster Because guess what?
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: The average age of a plumber in the state of Texas.
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: You have any idea what that is.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: I'm going to say it's probably in the early 50s, 58.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: Oh, no way.
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: Average age of a journeyman plumber is 58.
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: That's the problem.
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: We're in charge of a dying workforce.
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: We have a dying workforce and we need to rejuvenate the talent.
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: And when I say the world is your oyster, think about what that means for a kid getting into plumbing right now.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: They're doing something that not most people are having thought about.
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: And guess what kind of wages?
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: You can start in plumbing right now for 20 bucks an hour.
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: Yes, sir, yeah, yes, they're making 40, 50, 55,000 just for showing up every day.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: That's the type of opportunity that we see that we just need to do a better.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: We need to continue getting that word out.
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: That's it.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: We need to continue getting that word out, that's it.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: That's it.
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: Continue getting the word out.
• 40:41
  Speaker 2: I'm really surprised to hear it's 58.
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: When I started my apprenticeship, the average age of a plumber, I think, was 46.
• 40:49
  Speaker 2: And I was 18.
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: I was the only 18 year old in my apprenticeship group.
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: Everybody was like 30 and up, maybe some in their twenties, and I was like this means I'm going to make a lot of money in the future If that's the average age.
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: I'm 18 in first year apprenticeship and all these dudes are all older than me too.
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: Like man, I got this bad boy.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: I'm going to do good here.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: And then to your point.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: When I got my journeyman license, I think it was 1999 or 2000,.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: Around that time, when I got my journeyman and I was man, I was high on the hog because I got a raise up to 15 bucks an hour.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: Fast forward, I started an internship program when I was working at TV Industries and we were recruiting high school students to work with us over the summer.
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: We were paying them 15 bucks an hour high school interns Any idea of like where the compensation or the wages are.
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: Right now you're 100% right 15 to 20 bucks an hour.
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: That's just to show up and no experience.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: And then beyond that, you talked about the masters, right.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: And now the door opens to start your own business.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: And I'm going to tell you and I tell this to a bunch of people, because some people Jesse, you're crazy.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: You just kind of figure things out, and how do you do that?
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: And aren't you scared?
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: I'm like no.
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: And then I think like, well, why not?
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm nutty, but the transferable skills that I built working in the field are exactly what has equipped me to launch my business and figure that out as a tradesman.
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: What I get is a pile of material, some information and some tools and I have to use my wherewithal to actualize what's on that piece of paper to make sure that it's functioning and within code, and you just figure it out.
• 42:49
  Speaker 2: Sometimes the conditions are different.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: Something's jacked up Like, whatever it is, you just work with what you got and make it happen.
• 42:55
  Speaker 2: Whatever it is, you just work with what you got to make it happen.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: So, doing that over and over as an installer, it's exactly that skillset of being able to figure that out, try something new, test some things and experiment and fail and whatever.
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: It's exactly that skillset that I believe has helped me build the success that I'm having right now in running my own business and it's not a plumbing business because, like my dad said, I'm a lazy, soft plumber.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: Yes, I am, but it's that skill set that was transferable.
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: Now, well, it's also the willingness that you to step out and take on that challenge, right?
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: Yes, and sometimes you don't even know whether you can do it or not, but you're stepping outside of your comfort zone, taking a little bit of a risk and you're figuring it out, and there's motivation to do that.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: That's what makes people great is that desire and the willingness to step out and do something new.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: When you started this podcast thing, how acclimated to this were you?
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: Right Outside my comfort zone, right?
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: My first podcast.
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: And you're killing it, brett, you're killing it right now I love it.
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: So one thing, and folks, anybody in the I don't know central region of Texas, south Texas, you said November is the next TCCI event.
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, correct, so get it on your calendar.
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: Y'all need to come and check it out.
• 44:14
  Speaker 2: Because I'll tell you, my first time I went to that event I went looking for talent.
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: I was there to find students because we needed people and I got lucky in that I was able to face, like my booth was facing, the competition.
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: And so I'm looking at these I think it was like eight schools back then, teams of four and I'm looking at them like get work four.
• 44:37
  Speaker 2: And I'm looking at them like get work done.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: And I'm like what the what is this?
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: And like, oh yeah, there are juniors and seniors and sophomores like they're high school kids and they knew they weren't, they knew what the hell they were doing, right, I'm thinking like these kids know what they're doing and here I am hiring these other wackos that they clearly don't have the same level of experience.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: I need some of that and that's what started me down the path to create the internship program and so forth.
• 45:07
  Speaker 2: So my point is, if you're listening to this and you're in the construction, trade space.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: You need to come out there, support, observe, study the competition and I promise you that will convince you that this generation is the most underrated generation ever and there's tons of talent and tons of students that you can add to your workforce right now.
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: You just need to get over your little hangups about the young.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: But this generation, they don't make them like they used to.
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: My money says there's not one single generation that didn't say that.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: No, I agree, no, I totally agree.
• 45:47
  Speaker 1: And the most interesting thing, I think, is you get out there, you get in that environment and you start learning, okay, how to connect with these kids.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: You see, you see what attracts attracts them.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: Our first year that we did that, we set up a booth and we had some, you know, some swag and a great.
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: That's fantastic.
• 46:04
  Speaker 1: But then you look over and then there's stacy with merrick and they're pulling out the, the hammers, the, the electric drill and they're getting hands-on and have them do stuff.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: And I was like there's an high opener man.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: Next time we need to bring some, some tools and have them do stuff.
• 46:17
  Speaker 1: And I was like there's a high opener man.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: Next time we need to bring some tools and have them not sweat pipe but put some hex pipe together with some fittings and make stuff, because that's what's going to attract them and what you're having these conversations and you're learning how to connect, because that's the future workforce, whether we like it or not.
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: That's who we're going to be hiring and who we need to train to be that next, and we got to understand how to motivate these people to bring them in so they do want to do the stuff that we need them to do, yeah.
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: We'll point folks out there.
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: If you want to see a phenomenal, well-oiled workforce development program, connect with Stacey Gunderson Merritt Brothers.
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: They got it.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: They broke the code and they are freaking killing.
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: Just like you said, their booth is the one that's always crowded with all the students and it ain't because of swag and their representatives.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: It's not the HR professional and some old grizzly superintendent, it's the high school student.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: It's the kids that just graduated high school last year.
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: Like they, I'm like man.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: She's a high school student.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: It's the kids that just graduated high school last year.
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: Like they, I'm like man.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: She's a genius.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: Like this is amazing what they're doing out here.
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: So y'all got to check it out.
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: I'm glad that thing is still alive and I'm hoping to be out there and be a little bit of a distraction this year as well.
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: So we've been talking all this trade stuff, brett, and we haven't talked much about like your superpower the CPA, fractional CFO stuff, and I know how important it is.
• 47:43
  Speaker 2: And so for the individual say the early entrepreneur, even seasoned entrepreneur what should they be thinking about in terms of creating a financial roadmap?
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: No, I think it's a great question.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: It's one thing that I've learned through my career at Gibson and I had a great mentor in Barry and understanding how to grow a business.
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: The first thing is that you need to understand the lingo.
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: You need to understand what gross margin is, what overhead expenses and how that can impact your business.
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: And then one of the most impactful things I've done or we've done with the companies that I'm working for, is sitting down before the season starts and saying, okay, where do I want to go this year?
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: And let's start laying out goals.
• 48:27
  Speaker 1: What are my sales goals for this year?
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: How am I going to achieve those goals?
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: And you get your team together and then you start putting together a sales plan and then you start building out your operational plan and putting that in a financial format.
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: So you understand, okay, if I grow sales to $5 million this year, I anticipate making this amount of money and this is what I'm going to put in my pocket.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: And back to your earlier point we're not all doing this just for fun and to be entertained.
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: At the end of the day, the owner wants to put some money in his pocket and walk away not only bettering himself, but bettering the lives of his employees or her employees at the same time.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: And I think it's so critical that we keep an eye on the business, make sure the business is succeeding so we can successfully impact the lives and make those lives of our employees that much better.
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: And if we do that, we create these goals.
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: Then all of a sudden we have a mission this year and everybody's aligned and going down that road.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: Not only does the business owner understand how much he or she is going to make this year, but everybody also sees the potential and the impact that's going to generate in their lives.
• 49:41
  Speaker 2: Yes, yes.
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: So, having it mapped out, this is where we are, this is where we're going to go, this is what we need to invest to produce this target and then, okay, this is what it means in terms of dollars.
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: Let's go do that and see, and I'm assuming you probably have to adjust along the way as more information presents itself.
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: Well, just because we have a plan doesn't mean life gets in the way.
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: Right, people have kids, you got key players that are going to get sick, and I think that's one of the cool parts of this is we can say, okay, realistically, where are we at?
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: First quarter comes and goes and we say, okay, here's what we accomplished in first quarter, this is what our plan was.
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: We either hit that, we exceeded it, we didn't hit it, and what adjustments do we need to make?
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: And then we're kind of adjusting on the fly and tweaking things to see what positive changes we can make, to move the needle so that we get back on track if we're not.
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: Or we can also look at the past first quarter and we killed it, we went out there and we rocked it, but then also understanding, well, what happened, what did we do right, so we can do that next quarter.
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: And that's what's so fun and powerful about the business or about financials it tells a story and then we can adapt and either continue doing what's working because we understand it now, or also we're understanding why we're not hitting the numbers and we can also try to figure out what we need to do to correct that 10, 4.
• 51:11
  Speaker 2: So is that the sort of thing that you help people with as a fractional CFO?
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: of thing that you help people with as a fractional CFO.
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: Yes, exactly when I come in is when and I'll take it just from what I see a lot of companies have they have a controller, and the controller is basically a history.
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: They're telling the history of the business, right.
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: A fractional CFO is more forward-facing.
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: They're looking at hey, this is the path we're going down.
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: If we continue to do, this is what you're going to see in cash.
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: This is the path we're going down.
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: If we continue to do, this is what you're going to see in cash, this is what you're going to see in profits, or these are the losses.
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: So we do basically a session out of business when I start and we say, okay, these are the ratios, are they healthy, are they not?
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: Where do we need to correct and what are the things that we're doing?
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: And then we sit down as a team sales operations, the owner and we say, okay, this is what we see now.
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: What can we do better moving out into the future?
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: Because if we do this, then we can expect this.
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: And that's what's so much.
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: Fun is, I'm working with a couple of different businesses and you see, see the picture behind me and that's in Western Kentucky.
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: A couple of those guys are out there and they grew their business to a $7 million business without having any idea what the financials look like, and they have successful businesses.
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: But one day, I guess, they woke up and they said, hey, I need freaking Brett Bartley.
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: And we connected and we started.
• 52:38
  Speaker 1: And I need freaking Brett Bartley.
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: And we connected and we started and it was through a mutual friend of mine.
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: But we connected and it was really insightful because they really didn't understand what their margins were, they didn't understand what their overhead was.
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: They just kind of got there.
• 52:53
  Speaker 1: And that's where I think I can add value is, most business owners do what they do because they're good at their craft.
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: They're very good at the craft and back to your early point.
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: You really don't know much about your finances.
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: Well, you're really good and you found a niche at what you're really good about and you've grown it to this size.
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: But sooner or later you're going to have somebody who has the financial expertise to come in and say, okay, you've got the $7 million a year.
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: Are we making the kind of money that you want to make, or have we racked up a lot of debt and a lot of overhead that we need to really adjust.
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: And that's where you need some expertise to come in and say, okay, these are your ratios, these are either healthy or not, and how do you correct those things?
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: And that's where I can provide value.
• 53:37
  Speaker 1: And then also, what does that look like in the future?
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: And then we start putting together those pieces and I was really happy to be part of this planning for this upcoming season.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: And that's where you see the real light come on with all the people, because now you're having very impactful conversations with the whole team saying, okay, you're creating alignment, because this is where we want to go as a team, this is the direction we're going to head.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: And now you've got buy-in because everybody's aligned and everybody sees that if we do this is how that can impact my life.
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: The owner sees how that can impact their life and everybody sees future, the future, and have their eye on the future and what they need to do this upcoming year to achieve those results.
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it.
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: I'm like, okay, I'm definitely going to be needing some of that Now.
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: So question is there like a certain revenue point that warrants you coming in to play with them?
• 54:36
  Speaker 2: Or like, what are those parameters?
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: Are we talking like if somebody's got a solopreneur, they've got 250K a year annual recurring revenue?
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: Or are we talking about somebody that's got overhead, that's got assets in terms of vehicles and office and this sort of thing, with 10 or 15 employees?
• 54:58
  Speaker 2: What's kind of the sweet spot where you'd like to come in and start offering value to people?
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: No, I think it's a great question.
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: My background's in contracting and subcontracting and I think that's my niche.
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: But I think when you get to around 5 million to 20 million, that's where a CFO, a fractional CFO, can be really impactful.
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: And the beautiful thing about a fractional CFO you're really not taking any risk.
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: We have a conversation, we see if it's a good fit or not.
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: The owner understands okay, this is where this person can add value.
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: And then we step it along the way and say, okay, is this a good working relationship?
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: Is this person adding value?
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: And there's really no risk because you're not hiring a full-time person and, plus, you're not having to pay for that full-time person.
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: You look at CFO salaries nowadays if nothing, for a CFO to make $150,000 and half of that on bonus.
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: But in this type of arrangement we negotiate a weekly compensation package and we start stepping it in and we understand right up front what I'm going to do, what the business owner is going to do and how this is going to add value.
• 56:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, amazing, awesome, all good stuff.
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: So I'll make sure I've got your LinkedIn, so I'll make sure that's in the show notes.
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: Where else can people find you if they're looking for some magical CFO wizardry?
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: Well, just look me up on LinkedIn.
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: I'm at the easiest place we reach out.
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: I'm working on a website.
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: I'm not quite there yet.
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: I'm not the Jeffy Hernandez of fractional CFOs yet, but I'm working on it, baby.
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: So anyway, with your help, you've been instrumental in this and I really appreciate that.
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: But just call me if you want to post my contact information.
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: Feel free to do so.
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: Excellent, I'll make sure it's in there, because I'm sure somebody's going to say man, I need to talk to that dude, awesome.
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: So we're rounding.
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: Third coming home, mr Brett.
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: You ready for the big question?
• 57:11
  Speaker 1: I'm ready, buddy.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: I am ready.
• 57:12
  Speaker 1: So what is the promise you are intended to be?
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: Well, we talked a little bit about this yesterday and I think it's the way I'm going to answer.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: This is what my passion is.
• 57:23
  Speaker 1: My passion is trying to make a better life for the employees of every company and I think by building a company based on values, based on sound financial principles, we all can make a better life for our employees.
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: And, like I was talking about, if you align yourself and you have a vision and we can play out that financial vision and that future of the company, we can all make a better life for the employees.
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: And the best thing that I've seen throughout my career and what's been most rewarding is, with growth and a sound financial company, you create a lot of opportunities for a lot of individuals within your organization.
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: And the most impactful thing I've ever seen is, all of a sudden, you're looking around at your organization, identifying who the next leaders are going to be and then pushing them outside of their comfort zone and having them explore opportunity they never even fathomed.
• 58:15
  Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, you look two, three years down the road and these people are in management positions where they were doing some clerical function before, and it's just because they have the initiative and the drive and the attitude to go out there each and every day and succeed and get the job done.
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: And they weren't equipped with those skills two years ago, but now they're there because we helped them get there and all of a sudden they're going home and they've got a very rewarding career and a great life with the family, and that's my passion.
• 58:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, man, that's amazing.
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: Contributed into people's lives, I love it.
• 58:54
  Speaker 2: Man, brett, that was solid.
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: Did you have a good time, sir?
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: Oh, I had a great time, man.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: Thank you very much.
• 59:01
  Speaker 1: It's a privilege to be part of this man.
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: It's been great.