Latest / The Christian Homemaking Podcast: Simply Convivial with Mystie Winckler / How to Raise Godly Daughters in a World Working Against You | Nancy Wilson

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How to Raise Godly Daughters in a World Working Against You | Nancy Wilson · The Christian Homemaking Podcast: Simply Convivial with Mystie Winckler

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Speaker: Welcome to the Christian homemaking podcast, Simply Convivial.
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I'm Misty Winkler, homemaker, homeschooling mom of five, grandma,
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and author of Home is for Hospitality: Why Your Home and Homemaking Matter.
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Convivial means living together with joy, and that's the kind of home atmosphere
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that we want to create in our homes.
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And today I'm delighted to be joined by Nancy Wilson.
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Nancy is a pastor's wife and homemaker in Moscow, Idaho.
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She's the author of Single and Satisfied, The Fruit of Her Hands, Praise Her
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in the Gates, and Building Her House.
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She and her husband Douglas have three married children and a teeming horde of
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grandchildren and great-grandchildren.
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So thank you so much for joining me today, Nancy.
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Speaker 2: Thank you.
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It's fun to be with you.
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How many grandkids do you have, Misty?
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Speaker: I have two so far, almost two years old and about six months old.
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Speaker 2: Oh, congratulations.
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You're off to a good start.
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Speaker: And you're off to a good start with great-grandchildren.
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How many are you-
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Speaker 2: Yes.
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Well, we have five greats with two more on the way.
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Speaker: Oh, exciting.
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Speaker 2: It can happen really fast.
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Yes.
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I, I'm fastening my seatbelt.
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Speaker: So we're talking today 'cause you have a new upcoming
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book called Future Women.
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Speaker 2: Yes.
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Speaker: And I don't know if people have seen before, there's the Family
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series that this is gonna be a part of.
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Reforming Marriage, I think, was the first one.
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Speaker 2: Um, it could've been.
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It could've been.
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It's been a while.
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It has.
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It's been a while.
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But Doug wrote Future Men.
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Yeah.
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And so this is sort of the companion.
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It's been a long time coming.
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Speaker: 20 years later.
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Basically.
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Future Women.
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Well, in your experience, not just as a mom, but also a grandma and
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great-grandma, what are the biggest differences that you've seen between
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raising boys and raising girls?
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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness.
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All right.
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Yeah.
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Well, I'm not raising my grandkids.
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Yeah.
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Like, some grandmas actually need to help with that.
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Um, but what's the difference in how you bring them up?
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It's just they're different creatures.
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Um, boys are hungry for respect.
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Girls are hungry for love and security.
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Mm.
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And so you lean into that, what their needs are, and in the, into
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their strengths as well, and train.
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And so, uh, uh, we just bestowed on our son and on our daughters just
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differently, the same in many ways, but just leaning into their need.
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Nate didn't have the need for security and love, but he
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wanted to just be an authority.
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Just when he was two, basically.
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So, so I justâ¦
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The, this book is for raising the girls, and so that's what it focuses on.
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But raising our son and then seeing our grandsons, it's just boys are fantastic.
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And in many ways they're more straightforward.
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Speaker: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: So, but anyway, this one is about raising daughters.
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Speaker: So what would giving them love and security look
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like, maybe at different stages?
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Speaker 2: Okay.
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Well, I mean, of course your sons need love too.
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I mean, it's not like we
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Speaker: Can ignore them.
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Speaker 2: We're not, we're not suggesting that.
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But little girls need to get lots of affection.
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They need to feel secure.
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Um, we had sort of danger signals, yeah, on our mind, like on the lookout for.
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Uh, for instance, when our first little girl was pretty little, Dike still had
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a lot of single friends, guy friends who would drop by from the Navy or
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school, and some of them would try so hard, and we'd say, "You know what?
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She's not gonna come to you.
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She's not gonna be friendly, and we're actually really glad."
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"Because if she was climbing on you, it would be like,
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okay, what are we doing wrong?
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We need to pour it on.
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Um, she's looking for male attention, and that's a bad sign."
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So we would, we would tell them, "Don't be offended."
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Mm-hmm.
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"This is the way we like it- â¦ that she won't give you the time of day."
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You know, of course, we wanted our girls to be polite and friendly,
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but especially the little ones.
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You know, if you see a little girl being friendly with just men, random
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men, that's a big, that's a big alarm.
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So, um, I think- Right
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single moms have to work harder because there isn't dad there, and dad is the,
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such a security for little girls, and h- her protector, and just that need for
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security is really met in that kind of a household, Everybody understands, like,
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these are the barriers, and it just makes the little girl feel secure and happy.
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And when she's secure, she's gonna flourish.
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If she's insecure, then she turns into a little flirt, you know,
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looking for attention, whining.
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Um, it just can have a lot of, there can be a lot of bad signs
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if your little girl's tank is low.
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That's what we call it.
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Mm.
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Their tank is low.
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And whiny, complainy.
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You know, so much- Bad fruit can come from that lack of love and security.
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Speaker: Mm-hmm.
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Now, one thing that I love about your books is how you, like, just lay out
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a scripture verse, and then it's like, "And we believe this, so let's apply
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it in really- Okay â¦ practical ways."
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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It's
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Speaker: just- So I'm sure you're ready with these.
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What does scripture teach about girls and women specifically, like
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temptations and character that we can apply as moms of girls?
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Okay.
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Speaker 2: Well, the women are encouraged not to be gossipy, wandering
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around house to house, the widows are.
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The women are supposed to be reverent, uh, not drinking too much, the older women.
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They're supposed to be able to teach.
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You know, so we wanted our daughters to have the best education we could
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provide, and not any different from what we were giving our son.
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So we believe women need to be educated in the word, and just in,
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uh, in school, being brought up to think like Christians and under-
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understanding Christian worldview.
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It's just, there's so many wonderful resources, and you know.
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So, um, Doug was instrumental, starting Logos School, and this is back before
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we had ever even heard of homeschooling.
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I think it was probably just getting started about the same
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time that we were starting Logos.
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And we used to, uh, well, we still joke that we were homeschooling
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too, we were just doing it at Logos.
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Because, um, because we were both so hands-on there, helping get it going.
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But at any rate, uh, I would say as, of course, each age is different, but
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you're gonna teach your daughter modesty and why from the time they're really
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little, how to, um, have good manners, how to sit, how to stand, how not to sit-
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not to stand.
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You know, when I was in elementary school, we all had those big, full
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dresses and petticoats, and so we had to really pay attention.
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And I remember my mom teaching me, you know, "This is how you sit, how
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you stand, how you g-," you know, because that's the world we lived in.
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Um, I just saw a picture of my eighth birthday, and there were all these little
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girls lined up with the great big skirts, you know, the little s- short dresses.
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So glad we're beyond that.
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Yeah.
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But, um, they were cute.
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But still, it's just teaching modesty from a very little age.
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Um, and that builds security, too, knowing where the boundaries are and
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flourishing within those biblical boundaries and being thankful.
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Speaker: Yeah, I think, and really some of those modesty things you
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mentioned are, um, like self-control.
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It's not just what to wear and what not- For sure â¦ to wear-
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Absolutely â¦ with a dress.
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It's like you can keep- Yeah â¦ your legs together while you're sitting and
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Speaker 2: Right.
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Absolutely â¦ it's body control.
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All, all that.
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Absolutely.
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And how you talk.
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Speaker: Mm.
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Speaker 2: Uh, I did mention one of the bad things that can happen to
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little insecure girls is they become flirty, and so you put them in a school
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with boys and girls, you know, and mom and dad need to pay attention-
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Speaker: Mm-hmm
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Speaker 2: and not just drop them off and hope everything's going great.
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Speaker: Right.
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Right.
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Which is true of schools or co-ops or park days or any of those- Oh,
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Speaker 2: oh
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Speaker: sure â¦ social situations.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So I called it snoopervising.
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When the kids would have friends over, I was, just had an eye out
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and an ear out, paying attention.
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And I remember having a couple of new little girls over to play one time.
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I think probably Rachel was seven or eight, something like that, and after
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she left, I said, "You know, I want you to always be really nice to her, but I
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don't want you to be friends with her."
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You know, it's just, I could see it wouldn't be a good friendship, and there
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are times you just have to say that.
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And so And you know what?
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I was right years later.
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Speaker: Yep.
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Yep.
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That mother intuition and gut on those things-
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Speaker 2: Yes
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â¦ Speaker: is-
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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think- Yeah â¦ parents have to be careful because in
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a big community, you can think it's fine, the kids are fine, they can
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just run around and with all the kids.
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It's like, hang on.
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Who are they talking to?
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You know, who is that person talking?
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You know, it'sâ¦
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Even at church, it's just I wanna know where you are and what's going on.
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Speaker: Uh-huh.
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Speaker 2: And, uh, I can remember when our, our church was started, I mean, it
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was so much smaller when we began, but after the service, I would tell the kids,
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'cause Doug was busy being a pastor, it's like, "You have to stay right with me."
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And so I would include them in conversations and not expect them to just
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stand there- â¦ you know, unentertained.
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And so I would get them in a conversation, or we'd go talk to somebody who had
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kids so that they were not left out and that it was a miserable time.
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Or I could say, "Yeah, you can go over there," but I'd keep an eye on them.
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It wasn't a free-for-all.
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I don't know who all is there.
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Mm-hmm.
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I, you know, I'm responsible.
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So some people might think that's over, like overdoing it, but I
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would do it the same way again.
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And when they were, had friends over and were in the
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backyard, it was the same thing.
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My ear is tuned in.
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Mm-hmm.
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I'm looking out there, what's going down, and if I wasn't
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sure, I would go out and check.
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So it's just a big job, and it's nobody else's job.
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Yeah.
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It's mom's job, and dad's job obviously, but mom's the one on the ground, so.
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Speaker: Mm-hmm.
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And that's one thing I didn't even realize.
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It was kind of different.
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I had two boys first and then a girl.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And when, you know, my boys got jobs at 16, they were working retail- Yeah
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and it never occurred to me to go check on them.
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Like, they were- Mm-hmm â¦ showing up, they could keep their job.
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That was good.
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I went and bought- Mm-hmm â¦ something one just for the fun
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of being checked out by my son.
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Speaker 2: Right.
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Speaker: But when my daughter got a job at 16 at the coffee shop, like I'm like,
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"I'm just gonna stop in for a coffee and see," like "Is anyone else a regular that-
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Speaker 2: Yeah
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Speaker: is suspicious?"
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Speaker 2: Right.
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That's right, and you wanna ask questions.
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Keep me posted-
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Speaker: Mm-hmm
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â¦ Speaker 2: you know, with what's going on.
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And, you know, we had plenty of ta- of talks about what was going on.
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And, and the kids were always wide open, and Doug was very, you know, in the
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game, and every night around the table was debrief time about the whole day.
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And sometimes they would, you know, have lots of questions, and I'd
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say, "Okay, save it for dinner.
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We'll bring that up at dinner so you can hear from Dad, too, on that."
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So that's where a lot of things, a lot of our culture building in our
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home happened around the dinner table.
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Yeah.
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And we weren't watching TV while we were eating.
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I mean, we were justâ¦
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We didn't have a TV for a long time.
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, We sat and talked-
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and debriefed, and it was, it was great.
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Very formative.
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Speaker: Mm-hmm.
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Yeah, and I do think the girls need that especially, that help processing-
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Oh, yeah â¦ and evaluating.
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Speaker 2: And, you know, boys are interesting.
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Yeah.
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So it was nice to have Nate chiming in.
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He actually would get the floor, and his food would get cold.
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Because he knew if he paused to take a bite, one of the girls was
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gonna jump in â¦ and take over.
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So Doug would sometimes take a number.
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You know, like- Yeah â¦ "Okay, now you," and we'd hear all about the day,
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and, you know, they just were very, uh, attentive to what was going on and
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had questions and- - as they got older, it was theology, uh, as well as what
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was going on- at school and elsewhere.
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Speaker: Yeah.
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As our kids, especially our girls, get older, there are different stages
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where they need to know- Mm-hmm â¦ and practice different things, but what
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kind of skills and knowledge in particular should be, we be looking
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to help our girls- Okay â¦ gain?
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Speaker 2: Well, my girls wanted to be in the kitchen when they were little.
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I think Rachel was three when she would, uh, help me with the bread, and, uh,
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by that time, Becca was at school At our new school . But, um, she wouldâ¦
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We called it her baby loaf.
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I just had a little tiny pan, and I'd give her a lump of dough,
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and she'd roll it out with her little roller and put it in there.
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Or, you know, so that was one thing, being part up on a stool making bread.
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And then I, I really tried to lean into what their gifts were.
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So- They both learned to sew, but Becca really , leaned into that one.
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And so I can remember buying her pattern and buying her fabric.
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She didn't want a pattern.
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She was gonna make the pattern herself.
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So she would sew it up.
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This is when she's older, probably high school now, and then even in
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college, but it would be almost cute.
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Like it almost- But that's how she learned, and I remember
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thinking, "I'm investing in Becca, not in her wardrobe," you know?
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Speaker: Mm.
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Speaker 2: Because that dress almost made it.
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But she did make, like, Calvin Klein jeans from a pattern, so
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she did use a pattern sometimes.
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Um, you know, with all theâ¦
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All those are really tough.
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Yeah.
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But that was when she was older.
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But they were sewing, knitting, um, but they were also riding bikes and
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having fun outside, and they, they didn't do a ton of babysitting.
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We actually didn't want them off in the evenings babysitting
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other kids necessarily.
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Um, it just depended on who they were and how well we knew them and so forth.
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They didn't do a ton of that.
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They helped out other places, um, atâ¦
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But I would say in the kitchen a lot.
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Becca and a friend would get together and make a dinner,
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and for the parents, put it on.
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You know, just things like that, hospitality, cooking.
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Um, Rachel ran track in high school.
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We didn't have a track team when Becca was there.
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You, you know, so they have different skills and different
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interests, but they overlap a lot.
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Speaker: Mm-hmm.
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So you're just investing in them, developing them as people, both in
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skills like, like domestic skills-
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Speaker 2: Yeah â¦ which
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Speaker: require a lot of stuff- Right â¦ and being comfortable with- Yes â¦ waste.
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Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, and decorating.
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And decorating- Yeah
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um, their rooms or whatever, whatever I had for them to do.
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Gardening a little bit, not very much.
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Um- Helping with laundry, just whatever I had going on.
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But they were readers, and we were a family of big readers,
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and so that was also great.
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It was always aâ¦
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They would, they would just be buried in a book.
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Speaker: Mm-hmm.
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Speaker 2: And then we'd often talk about it.
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Um, when MTV first came out, the kids were probably junior high, early high
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school, and I remember Doug sat down with them and he would play a video, not the
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horrible raunchy one- Yeah â¦ but play one, and then teach them what philosophy,
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what worldview was happening here.
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"Do you see this?
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This is what it means."
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And so, and then he, as they learned, he would say, "Okay, tell me about this one."
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And so that was a hands-on dad time, just teaching Christian worldview.
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And then I was teaching it in lit at Logos.
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So we just would talk about it, obviously, in the classroom and at home,
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and that was just an important piece-
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Speaker: Mm-hmm
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Speaker 2: of what we were doing.
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Speaker: Yeah.
18:35
It's helping them grow in wisdom and being able-
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Speaker 2: Yes
18:38
â¦ Speaker: to see what's going on.
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Speaker 2: And not just read 100 books this summer.
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Speaker: Right.
18:43
Speaker 2: It's like, no, what kind of books?
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Speaker: Mm-hmm.
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Speaker 2: What areâ¦
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So.
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Speaker: Yeah.
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'Cause you want them to be able to notice patterns and see what,
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Speaker 2: yeah.
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Speaker: So the book Future Women, um, which when this episode comes
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out, will be available for purchase, I'm sure on the Canon Press website,
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on Amazon, wherever you get books.
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But who, who did you write the book for, or what's the purpose of the book overall?
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Speaker 2: I would say for all the Christian moms bringing up girls, anybody.
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Uh, it's a obviously a Christian book written to parents, but mostly to moms.
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I'm not writing a book for men on how to bring up their daughters,
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but I can't help but bring dad into it, you know, as I'm writing.
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But it's to be an encouragement.
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You know, you see little girls even in the church community, and you
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can tell they're just hurting units.
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Speaker: Mm-hmm.
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Speaker 2: And you just want to throw out as much help as you can and just lay
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things out, um, to be an encouragement and help, not to condemn, but to look
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what God has provided all this wisdom for us, and let's try to a- apply it in
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this day and age, and especially with so much resistance in the world and so
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much hostility really toward children, homemaking, marriage, the whole thing.
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So it's being counter-cultural and being Christian in our thinking.
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So that's what it's for, is just to help equip women to feel clear-headed
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about what it is, what's their mission, and how can they bring up their
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daughters- Yeah â¦ to just embrace it.
20:34
Speaker: That's so good.
20:34
Thank you so much.
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Yeah.
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Speaker 2: Well, thank you.
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Nice to see you.
20:39
Speaker: Yes, and we'll- I'll have links for the book and
20:43
all of that in the show notes.
20:45
So thank you so much for joining us.
20:46
All right.
20:47
Thanks,
20:47
Speaker 2: Misty.