Latest / The Chuck ToddCast / Interview Only w/ Dr. Annie Andrews - Can Democrats Finally Unseat Lindsey Graham?

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Interview Only w/ Dr. Annie Andrews - Can Democrats Finally Unseat Lindsey Graham? · The Chuck ToddCast

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Speaker 1: As many of you know, I like to get as
1:53
Speaker 1: many candidates running for office as possible, particularly for governor
1:56
Speaker 1: or Senate in general, especially in state that I think
2:00
Speaker 1: are sort of under a bit overlooked, underrated in their competitiveness,
2:10
Speaker 1: and that is the focus today. I've got doctor Annie Andrews.
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Speaker 1: She is the likely Democratic nominee, say likely because nothing's
2:16
Speaker 1: official yet they haven't had their primary, but the likely
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Speaker 1: Democratic nominee to challenge Senator Lindsey Graham this campaign year.
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Speaker 1: When last Week checked on Lindsey Graham's Senate campaign was
2:30
Speaker 1: back in twenty twenty. I think some people in South
2:33
Speaker 1: Carolina might be mildly surprised he's running again. Then again,
2:38
Speaker 1: the Lindsay Graham, I know, I don't know if he's
2:40
Speaker 1: ever going to leave his Senate seat voluntarily. Some entity
2:47
Speaker 1: or somebody is will decide when the end of his
2:51
Speaker 1: relationship with that Senate seed happens. Doctor Andrews hopes it
2:54
Speaker 1: is her and the voters of South Carolina in twenty
2:56
Speaker 1: twenty six. So we're going to do a little geit
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Speaker 1: to know you. Doctor. Thanks for coming on the podcast.
3:02
Speaker 2: Thank you suck.
3:03
Speaker 1: Let me just start with what I like to know
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Speaker 1: about anybody running for office is when's the first time
3:08
Speaker 1: you ever thought about it?
3:09
Speaker 2: My on ramp into politics was pretty quick. I decided
3:14
Speaker 2: to be a doctor when I was four, So my
3:15
Speaker 2: whole life was built around this goal.
3:17
Speaker 1: When you were a kid and you guys were you know,
3:19
Speaker 1: and everybody you know, I think, you know, some people
3:22
Speaker 1: want to be police officers, and people want to be
3:24
Speaker 1: the quarterback of the Green Bay Packers. That might have
3:26
Speaker 1: been me. You know, you wanted to be the doctor
3:28
Speaker 1: that's right, like it was.
3:29
Speaker 2: It was my dream from a very very young age.
3:32
Speaker 2: I told my preschool teacher one day, I want to
3:34
Speaker 2: grow up and be a doctor and a mommy with
3:35
Speaker 2: three kids, which is exactly what I am. So I
3:38
Speaker 2: never had political aspirations. I honestly never really felt connected
3:42
Speaker 2: to politics. I was in my twenties when Obama was
3:46
Speaker 2: first elected, and that was my first real political memory
3:50
Speaker 2: where I felt like, oh, I understand how this is
3:52
Speaker 2: impacting my life. And I realize I'm saying that from
3:55
Speaker 2: a position of privilege in the way that I was raised.
3:59
Speaker 2: But then the more time I spent working in children's hospitals,
4:02
Speaker 2: the more I started to understand the nitty gritty of
4:06
Speaker 2: the relationship between policies and the well being of kids
4:10
Speaker 2: and families. And then I started to understand I can
4:13
Speaker 2: advocate all day long until I'm blue in the face
4:16
Speaker 2: to the legislators in Columbia South Carolina, but until we
4:20
Speaker 2: start winning elections, and until we start electing people who
4:23
Speaker 2: inherently care about kids, the advocacy is only going to
4:26
Speaker 2: get us so far. So once I realized politics was
4:29
Speaker 2: the answer, then I started to look around the room,
4:31
Speaker 2: and I thought, you know what, I am qualified to
4:33
Speaker 2: run for office. And so the moment that seed was planted,
4:37
Speaker 2: it was a matter of weeks before I launched my
4:39
Speaker 2: first campaign, which of course was back in twenty twenty
4:42
Speaker 2: one when I ran against Nancy Mace for Congress.
4:45
Speaker 1: I want to go to something in your medical education,
4:47
Speaker 1: because this is something that I've been advocating in journalism schools,
4:51
Speaker 1: which is that more upstart reporters need to understand the
4:56
Speaker 1: business of media and need to understand the different ways
5:01
Speaker 1: that you know, you can get journalism paid for and
5:04
Speaker 1: things like that, because there's in some ways been that
5:08
Speaker 1: naivete has sort of led to I think that the
5:10
Speaker 1: disaster we're dealing with in the information ecosystem. When you're studying,
5:16
Speaker 1: when you're in med school, you know, do you remember
5:19
Speaker 1: taking a class about sort of you know, how healthcare
5:24
Speaker 1: is paid for in this country, Who pays, who doesn't,
5:27
Speaker 1: what's covered, what isn't. I see you shaking your head.
5:31
Speaker 1: It's amazing to me because I find I've asked this
5:35
Speaker 1: of other doctors too, and it's always the same answer.
5:39
Speaker 1: Why do you think that is?
5:41
Speaker 2: We could talk for an entire hour about this and
5:44
Speaker 2: how it has led us to the moment we find
5:47
Speaker 2: ourselves in with this coordinated attack on our healthcare system,
5:51
Speaker 2: doctors and medical organizations being caught totally flat footed, with
5:55
Speaker 2: RFK Junior as sending to lead AHHS. You know, there's
5:59
Speaker 2: not a lot of time, honestly, in medical school to
6:01
Speaker 2: learn anything other than how to be an effective safe.
6:05
Speaker 1: Physical science is everything, right, that's ninety five percent of
6:08
Speaker 1: your focus is learning everything you can about the science
6:11
Speaker 1: of medicine right.
6:12
Speaker 2: Exactly right. And the other five percent is working on
6:15
Speaker 2: your communication skills, because if you don't know how to
6:17
Speaker 2: communicate with other human beings, then you're going to be
6:19
Speaker 2: a terrible physician. But I hope that folks who are
6:23
Speaker 2: in charge of medical school curricula, residency curricula, you know,
6:27
Speaker 2: graduate medical education, and continuing medical education, that we're starting
6:31
Speaker 2: to understand what happens when we abdicate our seat at
6:34
Speaker 2: the table, when we abdicate any responsibility in the policymaking
6:38
Speaker 2: process or in the political process. I travel all around
6:41
Speaker 2: this country and talk to audiences of medical students and
6:44
Speaker 2: pediatric residents about the need to engage in politics on
6:48
Speaker 2: behalf of America's children and it's like, you know, it's
6:51
Speaker 2: like brand new news every time I say it, and
6:54
Speaker 2: it is a it has done, you know, great discredit
6:56
Speaker 2: to where we are as a country in regards to
6:59
Speaker 2: our healthcare system, our health care policy.
7:01
Speaker 1: I've spoken at quite a few of the associations over
7:05
Speaker 1: the years, whether it's you know, maybe I'll have your
7:07
Speaker 1: pediatric association, just the different specialties in the medical field
7:11
Speaker 1: that will have a DC meeting and I will have
7:14
Speaker 1: I will engage in this conversation. And it really is
7:16
Speaker 1: self selecting, right. You have the physicians like yourself who
7:20
Speaker 1: sort of realize, hey, we kind of have to be
7:23
Speaker 1: whether you want to be or not, it doesn't matter.
7:25
Speaker 1: You kind of have to be because this is the system.
7:28
Speaker 1: And then there are others who just and I get this.
7:32
Speaker 1: I think it's people who really know there, really know
7:34
Speaker 1: the science, who think it's absurd that they have to
7:36
Speaker 1: listen to a bunch of civilians who know nothing about
7:39
Speaker 1: healthcare telling them protocol.
7:42
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and you know, pediatricians really should be leading the
7:46
Speaker 2: way because kids are not inherently politically powerful. They can't vote,
7:51
Speaker 2: they don't have four oh one k's, they can't write
7:53
Speaker 2: checks to candidates, so really, pediatricians should have been doing
7:57
Speaker 2: this for decades. Engaging in politics on behalf of America
7:59
Speaker 2: is chillildren. But it may surprise you to learn that
8:03
Speaker 2: the pediatric organization, the American Academy of Pediatrics, is really
8:07
Speaker 2: the only large national medical organization that represents a medical
8:11
Speaker 2: specialty that does not have a political action committee. So
8:14
Speaker 2: they've actually explicitly chosen not to engage in politics in
8:18
Speaker 2: ways that other specialists like orthopedic surgeons, radiologists, ante caesiologists,
8:21
Speaker 2: they all have political action committees. Pediatricians don't, and I
8:25
Speaker 2: think that's because of some naive notion that no matter
8:30
Speaker 2: their party, lawmakers do inherently care about kids and will
8:33
Speaker 2: take votes in the best interest of children. But you know,
8:36
Speaker 2: now we find ourselves in a moment where the Medicaid
8:39
Speaker 2: program has been gutted by Trump's budget bill, which is,
8:43
Speaker 2: you know, Medicaid is the largest insurer of children in
8:45
Speaker 2: this country. Our routine immunization schedule has been thrown out
8:49
Speaker 2: the window, and so this is an incredibly urgent moment
8:52
Speaker 2: for America's children. And one of the reasons we find
8:54
Speaker 2: ourselves in this place is because pediatricians have not collectively
8:58
Speaker 2: effectively engaged in politics.
9:01
Speaker 1: Speaking of pediatricians, the said organization you just talked to
9:04
Speaker 1: actually just made a big proclamation. We're taping on Monday,
9:08
Speaker 1: January twenty sixth. This may air in a couple of days,
9:11
Speaker 1: but they just came out and recommended, essentially in this
9:16
Speaker 1: uncomfortable position to have to essentially disagree with the government regulation.
9:21
Speaker 1: And he said, and wreck you know, the the recommending
9:27
Speaker 1: I believe vaccination against at least eleven diseases, including polio,
9:31
Speaker 1: which I didn't know we were done. You know that
9:35
Speaker 1: that suddenly people decided that we shouldn't vaccinate for that anymore.
9:41
Speaker 1: Do you think you know there's there's no there is
9:45
Speaker 1: no debate like the new mom debate and the new
9:48
Speaker 1: parent debate that can take place right And you know, look,
9:52
Speaker 1: Mike both I'm an empty nester for the first time
9:55
Speaker 1: this year, and my back is paying the price since
9:57
Speaker 1: I had no helpers for shoveling snow. But I remember
10:01
Speaker 1: that new parenting feel and the empowerment. No, no, no, no,
10:05
Speaker 1: I'm going to go make these decisions. I couldn't think
10:09
Speaker 1: of a worse time and a worse moment to mess
10:14
Speaker 1: with parents' heads than when they're right at the start
10:16
Speaker 1: of this. And you have the government saying one thing,
10:18
Speaker 1: you're pediatrician saying another. The pediatrician maybe association and the
10:22
Speaker 1: pediatrician are one hundred percent on the same page. I mean,
10:26
Speaker 1: I mean this is this feels like a nightmare that
10:29
Speaker 1: we won't realize how bad it is for what about
10:31
Speaker 1: five years, ten years when these diseases make their way
10:34
Speaker 1: the system.
10:36
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, I have so much empathy and sympathy for
10:39
Speaker 2: new parents right now because they're navigating, as you just described,
10:43
Speaker 2: this moment where we can't trust medical recommendations coming from
10:46
Speaker 2: our federal government, and we also can't trust the information
10:50
Speaker 2: we're consuming online. And as you know, like new parents
10:52
Speaker 2: are up all night, they're scrolling on their phones, they're
10:55
Speaker 2: watching reels on Instagram, and they can't tell the difference
10:58
Speaker 2: between a board certified pediatrician and some wellness influencer who's
11:03
Speaker 2: trying to sell them something. And so what I urge
11:06
Speaker 2: parents to do is go to talk to your pediatrician,
11:09
Speaker 2: that is your trusted source of information. And as you
11:12
Speaker 2: just said, the AAP made a big announcement today releasing
11:15
Speaker 2: their own vaccination schedule, which is pretty much exactly the
11:19
Speaker 2: pre RFK Junior CDC vaccination schedule just to say that
11:24
Speaker 2: we disagree with the recommendations coming from RFK Junior and AHHS,
11:28
Speaker 2: and here are the vaccines that we recommend. And this
11:31
Speaker 2: schedule they released has been endorsed by I think eleven
11:33
Speaker 2: or twelve other major national medical organizations. So this is
11:37
Speaker 2: the one that parents need to follow because this is
11:39
Speaker 2: the evidence based vaccine recommendation schedule that is following the science,
11:44
Speaker 2: unlike what we're hearing from RFK Junior and AHHS.
11:47
Speaker 1: There anything that Kennedy and his supporters have complained about
11:51
Speaker 1: with the federal government that has merit in your review.
11:55
Speaker 2: So this is what's so insidious about what he's doing,
11:58
Speaker 2: is he's making these big broad statements. It's about, you know,
12:00
Speaker 2: we need healthier food, we need to get artificial dyes
12:03
Speaker 2: out of our food, we need, you know, children to
12:05
Speaker 2: be more active, and pediatricians have been shouting these things
12:08
Speaker 2: from the rooftops forever. But he's combining that and then
12:12
Speaker 2: like laundering these anti science, anti intellectual concepts into that,
12:17
Speaker 2: like this anti vaccine movement, and so it becomes very
12:20
Speaker 2: difficult for people to piece apart what we should be
12:23
Speaker 2: listening to and what we shouldn't. But this campaign that
12:26
Speaker 2: we heard him announce a week or so ago, this
12:28
Speaker 2: eat real food. First of all, like that's a terrible motto.
12:31
Speaker 2: But second of all, there are systemic barriers to so
12:34
Speaker 2: many kids and families in this country accessing real food.
12:38
Speaker 2: So many children in my state of South Carolina live
12:40
Speaker 2: in food deserts, Grocery prices are through the roof, and
12:44
Speaker 2: so yes, we all want kids to eat more whole foods,
12:46
Speaker 2: fruits and vegetables, whole grains. All of that sounds amazing,
12:50
Speaker 2: but we need policy solutions to address the barriers to
12:53
Speaker 2: achieve these, like you know slogans that they come up with,
12:56
Speaker 2: like eat real food.
12:58
Speaker 1: How did you deal with doctor Internet with your patients?
13:01
Speaker 1: Because I know a lot of doctors. I mean, there's
13:03
Speaker 1: nothing like doctor Internet. Well doctor Internet told me this, right,
13:06
Speaker 1: And I think, you know, I'm being for those wondering
13:09
Speaker 1: why do I keep referring who's doctor Internet? What I'm
13:12
Speaker 1: being is the whole you know, you search something, whether
13:14
Speaker 1: it's WEBMMD or whatever. Well I read this on the
13:17
Speaker 1: Internet about this drug. Right, you know, how did you
13:20
Speaker 1: handle doctor Internet?
13:21
Speaker 2: So it goes back to what I was saying before,
13:23
Speaker 2: which is the other thing aside from science you have
13:25
Speaker 2: to learn in your medical training is communication skills. It's
13:28
Speaker 2: sitting down and meeting parents where they are looking them
13:31
Speaker 2: eye to eye, understanding that they, of course are trying
13:34
Speaker 2: to do what's in the best interest of their children,
13:36
Speaker 2: and meeting them in that place and then slowly finding compromise.
13:41
Speaker 2: And you know, it is not difficult navigating these conversations
13:44
Speaker 2: with vaccine hesitant parents. It is. It is a challenge,
13:48
Speaker 2: but it is a challenge that pediatricians all across this
13:51
Speaker 2: country have risen up to meet. And you know, we're
13:54
Speaker 2: going to have to keep doing this. And the other
13:56
Speaker 2: thing we have to do to combat the doctor internet
13:59
Speaker 2: phenomenon and is pediatricians like me need to take up
14:02
Speaker 2: space on the internet. We need to use our own
14:05
Speaker 2: social media profiles to push back against this disinformation.
14:10
Speaker 1: Okay, I appreciate that you're willing to do that, but
14:13
Speaker 1: why should you have to do that? Like you know
14:15
Speaker 1: I and this is where you know the information ecosystem.
14:18
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, look, I this is the obligation
14:21
Speaker 1: I feel as a journalist, and you feel this obligation.
14:24
Speaker 1: You know, we don't want to see people end up
14:27
Speaker 1: in self harm when it could be have been prevented.
14:31
Speaker 1: And yet you know, you can't chase every squirrel, that's right.
14:35
Speaker 2: I mean, we shouldn't have to do it, but we
14:38
Speaker 2: see every day in real life, in our clinics, in
14:41
Speaker 2: our hospital rooms, the negative downstream consequences if we don't
14:46
Speaker 2: do it. You know, kids who have preventable infectious diseases,
14:51
Speaker 2: things as simple as you know the flu and RSV
14:54
Speaker 2: that are causing children to be critically ill, when if
14:56
Speaker 2: they had been vaccinated, they might not have gotten sick
14:59
Speaker 2: when they got that vile. So you know, it's it's
15:02
Speaker 2: the reality of working in a clinical setting every day
15:05
Speaker 2: that drives us to find whatever solutions we can to
15:08
Speaker 2: prevent unnecessary illness and suffering in kids.
15:11
Speaker 1: Are you still practicing while you're running for office or
15:14
Speaker 1: if you had to suspend your practice?
15:15
Speaker 2: For me right now, I'm working very part time and
15:17
Speaker 2: I'm a hospital based pediatrician, So I work in a hospital,
15:21
Speaker 2: the children's hospital setting really a few days a month,
15:24
Speaker 2: and then towards the end of the campaign, I'll take
15:26
Speaker 2: a full leave of absence from that job. But I
15:29
Speaker 2: find it keeps me very tethered to the reasons I'm
15:32
Speaker 2: engaging in this political world to begin with, to be
15:34
Speaker 2: able to walk into a hospital and talk to real
15:37
Speaker 2: kids and families who are struggling.
15:39
Speaker 1: One more question on the sort of the business of medicine,
15:44
Speaker 1: and I was talking with somebody because I find one
15:46
Speaker 1: of the head scratchers to me is why it's more
15:51
Speaker 1: profitable to run a not for profit hospital system than
15:55
Speaker 1: it is to run a for profit hospital system. Maybe
15:58
Speaker 1: your tax code's messed up if that's how this works out.
16:02
Speaker 1: But I had somebody else say that a lot of
16:04
Speaker 1: times with these not for profits, that we're building the
16:09
Speaker 1: wrong hospitals, and that some of these children's hospitals, while
16:14
Speaker 1: good and well intended, are a misuse of resources. Have
16:18
Speaker 1: you found that to be the case in some not
16:21
Speaker 1: in every case, but in some cases.
16:24
Speaker 2: I think really the root of the problem is we're
16:26
Speaker 2: still driven by the more you do, the more you
16:29
Speaker 2: get paid. In healthcare. We don't have a quality driven
16:33
Speaker 2: health care system. So the more surgical procedures you do,
16:36
Speaker 2: the more radiological you're.
16:37
Speaker 1: Not rewarded for keeping people from getting sick. You're just
16:40
Speaker 1: rewarded from treating people who already are sick right.
16:43
Speaker 2: Exactly exactly, And until we adopt something akin to universal
16:48
Speaker 2: health care, we're never going to have each individual payer
16:51
Speaker 2: and healthcare system engaging in this movement to have quality
16:55
Speaker 2: driven healthcare metrics. And so we're going to keep chasing
16:58
Speaker 2: our own tail. And that's really at the core of
17:02
Speaker 2: the problem in our healthcare system.
17:04
Speaker 1: So your motivation to run is to speak out on
17:09
Speaker 1: health care issues.
17:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it really yeah, I mean it started,
17:14
Speaker 2: as you know, we clearly need a voice for children.
17:16
Speaker 2: There's never been a pediatrician senator. There's one pediatrician member
17:20
Speaker 2: of the US House, doctor Kim Schreier from Washington eight.
17:23
Speaker 2: It became really clear to me that children don't have
17:25
Speaker 2: a seat at the table, and that was my original
17:27
Speaker 2: motivation to engage in politics, to advocate for all the
17:30
Speaker 2: policies that benefit kids, whether it's an expanded child tax credit,
17:34
Speaker 2: whether it's you know, addressing these food deserts we talked about,
17:37
Speaker 2: whether it's addressing gun violence, the leading cause of death
17:39
Speaker 2: for children in this country, whether it's addressing climate change,
17:43
Speaker 2: which is the greatest existential crisis our kids' face, or
17:46
Speaker 2: addressing our health care system. But of course that was
17:48
Speaker 2: you know back in the early twenty twenties, and now
17:52
Speaker 2: here we find ourselves in a moment where our healthcare
17:54
Speaker 2: system is being led by RFP Junior, who's a grifter
17:57
Speaker 2: and conspiracy theorist. And then we've got doctor, a TV
18:01
Speaker 2: doctor heading CMS and we are seeing this unprecedented and
18:04
Speaker 2: coordinated attack on all aspects of our healthcare system. So now, yes,
18:08
Speaker 2: I find my calling to stay engaged in politics, to
18:11
Speaker 2: run against Lindsey Graham, to be to fix America's broken
18:15
Speaker 2: healthcare system.
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19:35
Speaker 1: for thirty percent off. So now I want to get
19:43
Speaker 1: into a little row politics. What have you learned about
19:45
Speaker 1: the state of the Democratic Party in South Carolina over
19:48
Speaker 1: your now five years being sort of an active participant
19:54
Speaker 1: as a candidate. You said you started in twenty one,
19:56
Speaker 1: so you're on your fifth year and it's the year
19:58
Speaker 1: after the Jamie Harrison and debacle. I don't know what
20:02
Speaker 1: else to call it, because when you have that much
20:04
Speaker 1: money and you still lose by the same amount that
20:07
Speaker 1: no money would have gotten, that's a debacle. That's a
20:10
Speaker 1: misuse of resources. Who knows, you know, whether it was
20:15
Speaker 1: wasted money or just misspent whatever we want to look
20:18
Speaker 1: at it, but it was clearly money did not translate
20:22
Speaker 1: into votes. What have you learned about the state of
20:25
Speaker 1: the Democratic Party in South Carolina both as an organization
20:28
Speaker 1: and as a brand.
20:31
Speaker 2: So as an organization, I would say, you know, to
20:33
Speaker 2: use your word overlooked and under resourced, and those two
20:37
Speaker 2: things go hand in hand. And it has been frustrating
20:41
Speaker 2: for me as a candidate who in a different state
20:44
Speaker 2: would be able to rely on the state party for
20:46
Speaker 2: various you know, infrastructure aspects that could really help build
20:51
Speaker 2: a statewide campaign. But I see that as a challenge.
20:54
Speaker 2: You know, I'm a child advocate and a gun violence
20:57
Speaker 2: prevention advocate from the Southeast. I love a good child,
21:00
Speaker 2: I am scrappy, So I see my campaign's role in
21:04
Speaker 2: helping to build that infrastructure across the state, along with
21:08
Speaker 2: some of the you know great Democratic leaders that we
21:10
Speaker 2: do have in the state of South Carolina. But also
21:14
Speaker 2: to your question about the brand, is we have a
21:16
Speaker 2: huge brand problem for the Democratic Party in South Carolina.
21:20
Speaker 2: When people ask the easiest way for me to win,
21:22
Speaker 2: the answer is to erase the D behind my head.
21:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that was going to be my next question.
21:26
Speaker 1: I mean, I'll be honest with you, I wouldn't have
21:29
Speaker 1: advised you to run as a Democratic. Run as an independent.
21:32
Speaker 1: Nobody trusts an institutional controlled media, right shareholders. Independent is
21:38
Speaker 1: a halo. And I think and look at what more
21:41
Speaker 1: people are registering today as no party than as any
21:46
Speaker 1: other you know, unaffiliated, whatever you want to call it.
21:48
Speaker 1: So there's clearly a distrust of both parties. So independent
21:52
Speaker 1: would certainly align you with where voters under forty five are.
21:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, as from a pragmatic standpoint, though there's
22:01
Speaker 2: so many challenges to running as an independent, and you know,
22:05
Speaker 2: despite maybe some differences in strategy and frustrations with strategy
22:10
Speaker 2: from the party, you know where the Democratic Party stands
22:13
Speaker 2: on the issues that I care so deeply about, I
22:16
Speaker 2: am very much aligned and I think that me running
22:19
Speaker 2: as you know, a political outsider, as a pediatrician, as
22:24
Speaker 2: a mom, as you know, an active member of my community,
22:27
Speaker 2: I can help rebuild the brand of Democrat here in
22:31
Speaker 2: South Carolina. And one of the biggest systemic barriers, systematic
22:35
Speaker 2: barriers we face, Chuck, that I'm sure you're aware of.
22:37
Speaker 2: You know, we still have party you know, single party voting.
22:40
Speaker 2: You can walk into the voting booth and you click
22:42
Speaker 2: the Republican button, straight ticket, thank you, straight ticket voting,
22:46
Speaker 2: and that is a huge barrier. But as you said,
22:48
Speaker 2: so many people under the age of forty forty five
22:51
Speaker 2: are independent minded, and I'm optimistic that more of them
22:55
Speaker 2: are going to walk into the voting booth in November
22:57
Speaker 2: twenty twenty sixth in South Carolina and not just align
23:00
Speaker 2: themselves with a party, but go through every single race
23:02
Speaker 2: and pick the candidate that they find is most aligned
23:05
Speaker 2: with their values.
23:06
Speaker 1: When I look one of the things being a sort
23:09
Speaker 1: of data dorc As, I always look at sort of
23:11
Speaker 1: like which states, especially from either side of the aisle,
23:15
Speaker 1: could be states that the other party could have success
23:18
Speaker 1: and if they spend a little time organizing and this
23:21
Speaker 1: or that. In the Deep South, the two states that
23:24
Speaker 1: have always stood out to me are Mississippi, and South Carolina,
23:28
Speaker 1: and they both have one similarity in common. There's a
23:32
Speaker 1: under activated rural African American voter that, for a variety
23:39
Speaker 1: of reasons, hasn't felt very either engaged by the party.
23:43
Speaker 1: I think my thesis is, you know, when Democrats wrote
23:47
Speaker 1: off rural America in the Midwest, they kind of It's
23:50
Speaker 1: not an accident to me that the first Latino voters
23:52
Speaker 1: they lost were the rural Latinos in South Texas, the
23:55
Speaker 1: first African Americans they lost were rural African Americans in Georgia,
23:58
Speaker 1: and then the Deep South. That it really is a
24:02
Speaker 1: geographic disconnect more than it is identity politics. I you know,
24:09
Speaker 1: watching you know, the South Carolina Party, They've just never
24:13
Speaker 1: you know, And I know Jamie Harrison will text me
24:15
Speaker 1: and say, that's not true. I threw money at this,
24:17
Speaker 1: and I did this, and I did this, and I'm
24:18
Speaker 1: sure he tried. I'm not. I don't want to discount
24:20
Speaker 1: that he didn't. But there's always seems to be this,
24:24
Speaker 1: there's a huge under registrated vote in the state of
24:30
Speaker 1: South Carolina. What have you learned over the last five
24:33
Speaker 1: years as to why it's They've been hard to activate,
24:37
Speaker 1: hard to build trust.
24:37
Speaker 2: With because we show up and ask for their vote,
24:42
Speaker 2: and objectively speaking, nothing has gotten better for them in
24:46
Speaker 2: South Carolina for decades. And Democrats find ourselves in a
24:50
Speaker 2: really difficult position because we have, you know, a deeply
24:53
Speaker 2: jerrymandered state legislature that is, you know, a super majority
24:58
Speaker 2: of Republicans. So even when a Democrat is elected to
25:01
Speaker 2: serve in the congressional delegation, things at the state House
25:04
Speaker 2: are not going well. And so life for rural black
25:08
Speaker 2: South Carolinians is not going well. So it takes sort
25:11
Speaker 2: of decades of building to show real progress and show
25:15
Speaker 2: real results from any given election. And so I don't
25:19
Speaker 2: blame someone for saying, why would I bother to vote?
25:21
Speaker 2: You know, you asked me for my vote. I show
25:23
Speaker 2: up and vote, and you know, nothing has gotten better.
25:26
Speaker 2: My kids' school isn't any better, my access to food
25:29
Speaker 2: isn't any better, my healthcare is getting worse. So you know,
25:33
Speaker 2: the answer to that is not glamorous. You know, this
25:36
Speaker 2: is the really unglamorous part of politics, which is just
25:39
Speaker 2: showing up in rural communities not a month before the election,
25:44
Speaker 2: eighteen months before the election, and three months after the
25:46
Speaker 2: election and making connections listening first, and you know, then
25:50
Speaker 2: when you are able to deliver results, you have to
25:52
Speaker 2: come back and close that loop and tell people what
25:55
Speaker 2: it is you did to help to make their lives better.
25:58
Speaker 2: But it is a huge challenge and one that is
26:00
Speaker 2: you know, it's one of the reasons my campaign needs
26:03
Speaker 2: the resources to overcome that challenge, because there's enough voters
26:06
Speaker 2: in the state who are aligned with the things I'm
26:09
Speaker 2: fighting for, but they just are very difficult and expensive
26:12
Speaker 2: to reach.
26:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, South Carolina is surrounded by swing states right Georgia
26:16
Speaker 1: to the south, North Carolina to the north, and here
26:18
Speaker 1: they are. So it's it's like, you know, this isn't
26:21
Speaker 1: like somehow there's some magical aspect in South Carolina that
26:26
Speaker 1: those voters aren't swinging either. I just it just feels
26:29
Speaker 1: as if they're not treated as swing voters. They're not
26:32
Speaker 1: they're votes not. Let me ask it this way, what
26:35
Speaker 1: did you observe in the Jamie Harrison campaign that you
26:38
Speaker 1: don't want to replicate?
26:41
Speaker 2: I mean, a global pandemic. I mean really, at the
26:44
Speaker 2: end of the day, although that.
26:46
Speaker 1: Is why he raised thirty why he raised nearly one
26:48
Speaker 1: hundred million.
26:48
Speaker 2: Dollars, right, and you know, I'm sure he would say
26:51
Speaker 2: until he he's blue in the face that he would
26:53
Speaker 2: have been better off with twenty million dollars in no
26:55
Speaker 2: pandemic because you cannot reach those voters. We were just
26:59
Speaker 2: talking about if you can't knock on people's doors, and
27:02
Speaker 2: his campaign had really no field operation because of the pandemic.
27:06
Speaker 2: He also had Donald Trump on the ballot. And Donald
27:09
Speaker 2: Trump is ten points more popular than Lindsay Graham in
27:11
Speaker 2: the state of South Carolina. So there's two like really
27:14
Speaker 2: objective things that make twenty twenty six so much different
27:18
Speaker 2: than twenty twenty And I think if we overcome, you know,
27:20
Speaker 2: because of that, this is a totally different landscape.
27:24
Speaker 1: So let's go to the Let's talk about the voter
27:27
Speaker 1: you've got to win over, which is a voter that
27:29
Speaker 1: supported Donald Trump. You got to win a chunk of them.
27:33
Speaker 1: We can you know, we can play the math game.
27:34
Speaker 1: Is a ten percent of your final vote fifteen percent?
27:37
Speaker 1: You know, at a point you got to win a
27:38
Speaker 1: chunk of them. Who is there a you know, how
27:44
Speaker 1: are you trying to talk to that voter? And who
27:47
Speaker 1: is that voter in your head?
27:49
Speaker 2: I like how you just tried to like avoid the
27:51
Speaker 2: conversation about Math that I was definitely going to go
27:53
Speaker 2: down if you didn't do that. So that voter is
27:58
Speaker 2: actually very similar to my own dad, who lives down
28:01
Speaker 2: the street from me. He never voted for Donald Trump,
28:04
Speaker 2: but he was a lifelong Republican and still would look
28:07
Speaker 2: at you and say, he's a Republican. He's never going
28:10
Speaker 2: to be a Democrat. But he is appalled by several things. First,
28:15
Speaker 2: Lindsay Graham wearing a Trump twenty twenty eight hat. You know,
28:19
Speaker 2: these blatantly unconstitutional things that Lindsay Graham is promoting because
28:25
Speaker 2: Trump wants him to really fly in the face of
28:28
Speaker 2: these you know, more serious minded center right Mitt Romney,
28:32
Speaker 2: John McCain type Republicans, of which there are very many
28:36
Speaker 2: here in South Carolina, particularly in our urban centers and Charleston, Colombia.
28:42
Speaker 1: Graham would associate himself with that description, or he would
28:45
Speaker 1: have at one time.
28:46
Speaker 2: He absolutely would have. And I say in my stump speech,
28:48
Speaker 2: if Lindsay Graham was the same man he was twenty
28:51
Speaker 2: three years ago when first elected to the US Senate,
28:54
Speaker 2: I would not be in this race because I would say,
28:56
Speaker 2: you know what, that's probably a pretty good representative for
28:59
Speaker 2: the state of South Carol. But that is not who
29:01
Speaker 2: he is, because Lindsay Graham is a follower, not a leader.
29:04
Speaker 2: He used to follow John McCain, and now, unfortunately he's
29:07
Speaker 2: following the loudest, most dangerous voice in the room, which
29:10
Speaker 2: is Donald Trump. So between the Trump twenty twenty eight,
29:13
Speaker 2: between the ridiculous war mongering that Lindsey Graham is doing
29:18
Speaker 2: that turns off so many of these more traditional Mitt
29:21
Speaker 2: Romney type Republicans, not to mention everything we're seeing in
29:25
Speaker 2: Minneapolis with DHS and Ice and so there are so
29:28
Speaker 2: many like serious minded former Republicans, former Trump Republicans, who
29:32
Speaker 2: are deeply offended by Lindsay Graham. And Lindsay Graham is
29:35
Speaker 2: really Trump's lapdog. Like no one has tied themselves tighter
29:37
Speaker 2: to Donald Trump, I would argue than Lindsay Graham has.
29:40
Speaker 2: So if you're appalled by this Trump two point zero administration,
29:43
Speaker 2: chances are you're appalled by Lindsay Graham. And there are
29:46
Speaker 2: enough of those people who then see me as number
29:48
Speaker 2: one in outsider number two, an intelligent person who can
29:51
Speaker 2: communicate clearly, and a reasonable alternative to yet another six
29:56
Speaker 2: years of Lindsey Graham.
29:58
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting to me that nick Haley, whose
30:02
Speaker 1: politics I would have assumed we're closer to Trump's than
30:04
Speaker 1: Lindsay Graham's, and it's Nicki Haley that's seen is less
30:09
Speaker 1: sort of close to Trump, and it's Lindsay Graham that
30:11
Speaker 1: is seen as more close to Trump. Is that surprise you?
30:14
Speaker 2: Yes, I had so much hope there. There was a
30:16
Speaker 2: moment where I so much hope that Nikki Haley was
30:19
Speaker 2: going to be the one was going to be the
30:20
Speaker 2: one to stand up to Trump.
30:22
Speaker 1: Until that I think she did speaking of a math problem.
30:27
Speaker 1: She had a math problem, that's right.
30:29
Speaker 2: And I'm just still a Pollyanna because I'm a pediatrician,
30:32
Speaker 2: not a politician. But I just had so much hope
30:34
Speaker 2: that she was going to be the one with the
30:35
Speaker 2: moral clarity to stand up. And if she had done that,
30:38
Speaker 2: I really think she could be, you know, the leader
30:40
Speaker 2: of whatever the Republican Party becomes once we're done with
30:43
Speaker 2: this Maga era of Republican Party.
30:45
Speaker 1: I think she didn't do enough. You think she should
30:47
Speaker 1: have been more out spoken?
30:48
Speaker 2: Yes?
30:50
Speaker 1: Now, no, I look it's a well no for sure,
30:53
Speaker 1: whether she was right or wrong about that, whether we're
30:55
Speaker 1: right or wrong about that in a few more years.
30:56
Speaker 1: But I get what kind of let me let me
31:00
Speaker 1: ask you this, you know, if it's you're not wrong
31:04
Speaker 1: in identifying South Carolina in many ways is always looking
31:08
Speaker 1: for a form of disruptor. Mark Sandford and Nicky Haley
31:11
Speaker 1: were not of the establishment. In fact, they were both right,
31:14
Speaker 1: there's this weird Columbia establishment that is somehow very hard
31:19
Speaker 1: to break through. It can be a little uniparty even
31:23
Speaker 1: at times. And then there's this outside And Sandford was
31:25
Speaker 1: an outsider and Nicki Haley was an outsider. You might
31:31
Speaker 1: argue Jim Hodges was an insider ironically, you know, you know,
31:35
Speaker 1: I don't, I mean, and I you know, so what
31:38
Speaker 1: what do you make of the fact that a Niki
31:41
Speaker 1: Haley and a and a Mark Sandford were able to
31:46
Speaker 1: win statewide races as Republicans running as outsiders and that
31:50
Speaker 1: was a real appeal although it was a divided Republican
31:53
Speaker 1: party in both instances.
31:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right, you know, I hear a
31:56
Speaker 2: lot of people describe South Carolina as having like a
31:58
Speaker 2: very strong liberty care streak as well.
32:02
Speaker 1: There have been some libertarians that have been wanting to
32:04
Speaker 1: make South Carolina they're the avatar for libertarian living. You know,
32:08
Speaker 1: we're going to all move to side that there was
32:10
Speaker 1: a movement I think about twenty years ago, when the
32:12
Speaker 1: Internet first started to try to create movements, all libertarians
32:15
Speaker 1: moved to South Carolina. We will elect the first real
32:19
Speaker 1: you know inn Ron dream government, right, you know, never
32:22
Speaker 1: quite happened.
32:24
Speaker 2: I mean, we like to be to our own drum
32:26
Speaker 2: down here. We like to do things differently. But I think,
32:29
Speaker 2: you know, that's why Lindsay Graham's in so much trouble,
32:31
Speaker 2: because he is like the poster child of a DC
32:35
Speaker 2: swamp creature. You know, he's a twenty three year incumbent senator,
32:38
Speaker 2: he was in the House before that. He is just
32:40
Speaker 2: like so deeply entrenched in the DC establishment now and
32:45
Speaker 2: the establishment of the Republican Party. And South Carolinians don't
32:48
Speaker 2: stand for that. And they also see that he's just
32:50
Speaker 2: never here. He's never talking about South Carolina when he
32:54
Speaker 2: should be talking about South Carolina. He's talking about Greenland.
32:57
Speaker 2: Like he says into a microphone, he doesn't need to
32:59
Speaker 2: come back to South Carolina because he's in DC to
33:01
Speaker 2: do what Trump tells him to do. And that's because
33:04
Speaker 2: he thinks he's invincible because of what we just talked
33:06
Speaker 2: about with twenty twenty twenty twenty six people. Is not
33:09
Speaker 2: a normal political moment like that is the most you know,
33:12
Speaker 2: underselling way to say that. But Lindsay Graham knows he's
33:15
Speaker 2: in real trouble. He's already on TV in his primary
33:18
Speaker 2: because he has a competitive primary before he has to
33:20
Speaker 2: deal with me in the general.
33:22
Speaker 1: And I want to pick up something that you acknowledge,
33:24
Speaker 1: which is Donald Trump's more popular than Lindsay Graham. So
33:28
Speaker 1: it keeps coming back to you've got to win over
33:30
Speaker 1: somebody that likes Trump, even though you're outlining an agenda
33:34
Speaker 1: that's very much confrontational to the Trump administration.
33:39
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I remember reading those articles about
33:41
Speaker 2: the Trump AOC voter. You know, it's people who who
33:44
Speaker 2: want to be you know, individual thinkers who want to
33:48
Speaker 2: think for themselves, not aligned to a specific party. And
33:53
Speaker 2: you know, with every passing day, this Trump administration grows
33:57
Speaker 2: more extreme. And it might be the measles outbreak that
34:01
Speaker 2: sets someone off. It might be what we're seeing in Minneapolis,
34:04
Speaker 2: it might be what we're seeing in Greenland. It might
34:07
Speaker 2: be the tariffs and grocery prices. But more and more people,
34:11
Speaker 2: as we get closer to election day, are going to
34:13
Speaker 2: have something that has like personally offended them or personally
34:16
Speaker 2: negatively impacted their lives, and it's going to make them
34:19
Speaker 2: rethink the way they vote. And then they're going to
34:21
Speaker 2: have an option, which is a refreshing, much younger professional
34:26
Speaker 2: pediatrician who's offering something different than they're used to.
34:30
Speaker 1: You know, I always say that it's like everybody's got
34:33
Speaker 1: their line, you know, and you don't know what who
34:37
Speaker 1: when when that person's line has crossed with Liz Cheney
34:40
Speaker 1: turned out it was January sixth. She was fine with
34:42
Speaker 1: everything before then then after that she's like, I'm out
34:45
Speaker 1: the day Lindsay Graham told us he was out for
34:47
Speaker 1: a couple of days. It's a speech that I will
34:52
Speaker 1: never forget because of how emphatic it turned out not
34:55
Speaker 1: to be. You ran against Nancy Mane. I think everybody's
35:03
Speaker 1: trying to figure out Nancy May. She has been a
35:06
Speaker 1: staple in South Carolina outsider politics. I'd argue for over
35:10
Speaker 1: a decade, right, you know, I'm old enough to remember
35:13
Speaker 1: when she was the chief primary challenger to Lindsay Graham
35:16
Speaker 1: circa twenty fourteen. I want to say, I think, yeah,
35:21
Speaker 1: you've run against her. I think a lot of people underestimator,
35:26
Speaker 1: and then there's others that overestimator for different reasons. But
35:30
Speaker 1: as a campaigner, why do you think you know that
35:34
Speaker 1: nobody likes Nancy Mace except the voters.
35:35
Speaker 2: At times at times, and I think.
35:38
Speaker 1: That that her just matters.
35:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, her welcome is wearing thin. And I hope that
35:43
Speaker 2: that's what we'll see happen in this GOP governor's primary race.
35:49
Speaker 1: The worst thing you don't want to see her win
35:50
Speaker 1: that primary. You'd like to see anybody but her. Interesting, Yes, the.
35:53
Speaker 2: Worst thing that could happen is she's an unseerious person
35:56
Speaker 2: who is not tied to any sort of moral or code.
36:01
Speaker 2: She is just in it for herself. It's all about her,
36:05
Speaker 2: and like, frankly, human being to human being, I'm worried
36:08
Speaker 2: about her mental health. You know, to be a leader,
36:11
Speaker 2: to lead a state, to serve in the House, to
36:13
Speaker 2: serve in the Senate, you have to have your wherewithal
36:17
Speaker 2: about you, like you have to be able to function
36:19
Speaker 2: in society. And I think Nancy Mace is sadly really
36:22
Speaker 2: sort of devolving in front of our eyes. You know,
36:25
Speaker 2: it was not that long ago I ran against her,
36:27
Speaker 2: but she was a more serious person than she is now.
36:31
Speaker 2: We've seen these public displays, you know, at the ULTA
36:33
Speaker 2: store where she was cussing out a constituent, the thing
36:36
Speaker 2: at the airport where she was just degrading and yelling
36:40
Speaker 2: and cussing at the TSA agents and airport security, and
36:44
Speaker 2: it's it's a cry for help. You know, I am
36:45
Speaker 2: a healthcare professional. This is a cry for help. She
36:48
Speaker 2: has no business being anywhere near the governor's mansion. She
36:51
Speaker 2: is quite difficult to figure out.
36:53
Speaker 1: You know.
36:53
Speaker 2: It was interesting running against her, woman versus woman in
36:57
Speaker 2: that you know election cycle after row fell, and I
37:01
Speaker 2: really thought, you know, here's a pro choice woman running
37:03
Speaker 2: against an anti choice woman. What woman in the state
37:06
Speaker 2: would vote for her? But of course I lost that
37:09
Speaker 2: race by double digits, and so it is interesting, as
37:12
Speaker 2: you said, voters tend to show up and vote for her.
37:15
Speaker 2: But I do think that people's patients with her here
37:18
Speaker 2: in South Carolina is wearing quite thin. And I also
37:20
Speaker 2: think her appeal beyond the first district here in the
37:23
Speaker 2: Low Country is not what she thinks it is. She
37:26
Speaker 2: confuses her social media profile.
37:29
Speaker 1: With real life, would you if you were elected to
37:34
Speaker 1: the Senate. How do you feel about Chuck Schumer's leader.
37:38
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's important today to say that
37:41
Speaker 2: I am really happy to hear that they are not
37:44
Speaker 2: going to support a budget that would include fur their
37:48
Speaker 2: funding for DHS and ICE. So that to me is
37:52
Speaker 2: a glimmer of hope, a sign of strong leadership. But
37:55
Speaker 2: I see myself as you know, a new generation of leader.
37:59
Speaker 2: You know, I am significantly younger than the average US senator,
38:03
Speaker 2: and I know that younger leaders.
38:05
Speaker 1: I feel like ninety percent of America can say that.
38:07
Speaker 2: Sorry, yes, I mean, I'm very excited to be in
38:10
Speaker 2: a workplace where I'm like the young person.
38:11
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I mean, you know, it's the only place
38:13
Speaker 1: that if you're in your fifties, you're the.
38:17
Speaker 2: So I mean, I think it's time that we need,
38:19
Speaker 2: you know, younger leaders with fresh ideas, with bold ideas
38:22
Speaker 2: about how to lead, how to communicate. And you know,
38:25
Speaker 2: it's been very distressing to sit to be on the
38:27
Speaker 2: sidelines of all of this and to wait for that
38:29
Speaker 2: moment where the party really gets it together and we
38:32
Speaker 2: see these bold signs of leadership. We're certainly seeing it
38:35
Speaker 2: from some individual members of Congress, But I do think
38:38
Speaker 2: it's time as a party. You know, we've got to
38:40
Speaker 2: win elections again. And if we just keep doing the
38:42
Speaker 2: same thing over and over again, why would we expect
38:45
Speaker 2: a different result than we saw in twenty twenty four.
38:48
Speaker 1: Who impresses you right now? In the Democratic Party? Who
38:50
Speaker 1: do you like, say, oh, I want to I want
38:54
Speaker 1: to call that person up. I want to. They seem
38:57
Speaker 1: to share my vision of where I'd like to see the.
39:01
Speaker 2: Party go, you know, being down here in the Southeast,
39:04
Speaker 2: I think a lot about my neighbors in Georgia, about
39:08
Speaker 2: Senators Warnock and Osoff and their ability to lead, both
39:12
Speaker 2: like very pragmatically understanding that you know, they do need
39:16
Speaker 2: to get re elected in a state like Georgia, but
39:19
Speaker 2: not really compromising any of their progressive ideals. Like they
39:23
Speaker 2: seem like two.
39:24
Speaker 1: Examples, excellent point. It's a very swingy state, and you
39:28
Speaker 1: know they they try to find a way to stick
39:31
Speaker 1: to their progressive bona fides well as you say, vote
39:35
Speaker 1: where they have to vote.
39:36
Speaker 2: Every once in a while, right, And you know, I
39:38
Speaker 2: think they both have different but very strong communication skills,
39:42
Speaker 2: and I think that's why they're able to vote the
39:44
Speaker 2: way that is true to them, but also maintain the
39:47
Speaker 2: relationships with the moderate Republicans who they need to support
39:51
Speaker 2: them to get re elected.
39:56
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41:34
Speaker 1: got a growing family. So if you get there, it
41:42
Speaker 1: will probably mean there was a nice sized wave, right
41:46
Speaker 1: and you know, we'll see you know this is I've
41:50
Speaker 1: seen many a political cycle where the wave just gets
41:53
Speaker 1: bigger and bigger, and every time you think it's not
41:55
Speaker 1: going to get bigger, it gets bigger. Two thousand and
41:58
Speaker 1: six was like that for the Democrat, twenty ten and
42:01
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four, it's like that for the Republicans. But
42:04
Speaker 1: if you get here it's going to be a democratic majority.
42:07
Speaker 1: Donald Trump's still going to be in office for two years.
42:10
Speaker 1: How much do you believe the job for a democratic
42:13
Speaker 1: Congress is to work with Trump and how much of
42:18
Speaker 1: it is to confront him and try to stop his administration.
42:23
Speaker 2: I like the way you frame that question. I think
42:25
Speaker 2: it's got to be both. I mean, if we win
42:27
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty six, that can effectively cut this destruction
42:31
Speaker 2: of our democracy in half, and that's what's most important.
42:35
Speaker 2: And people who are leading DHS and hhs, Donald Trump
42:40
Speaker 2: and everyone must be held accountable for the lawlessness we're seeing,
42:44
Speaker 2: for the you know, countless constitutional crises we face every
42:48
Speaker 2: day when we open up the news. But we also
42:51
Speaker 2: have to get the job done and deliver results for constituents.
42:55
Speaker 2: So you know, I'll work with anybody who's willing to
42:57
Speaker 2: work with me to deliver solutions that help South Care Malinians.
43:00
Speaker 2: I think Representative Lauren Underwood is a great example of this.
43:03
Speaker 2: She just quietly just gets the job done and continues
43:07
Speaker 2: to deliver results. And I like to think that we
43:10
Speaker 2: share qualities because she is also a healthcare professional. She
43:14
Speaker 2: is a scientist, she is data driven, She's not all
43:17
Speaker 2: about like the flashiness of being in office. She's about
43:19
Speaker 2: getting the job done. So when it comes time to
43:22
Speaker 2: deliver results, I will work with anyone, including Donald Trump,
43:25
Speaker 2: to do that because my allegiance is to the people
43:27
Speaker 2: of South Carolina. But Democrats can't, you know, take the
43:31
Speaker 2: House and take the Senate and then be meek in
43:33
Speaker 2: our leadership. Like it's going to be a time to
43:36
Speaker 2: be bold, and we have to take advantage of any moment.
43:39
Speaker 2: We have to pass our agenda, the agenda that will
43:42
Speaker 2: help so many people in this country who are struggling,
43:45
Speaker 2: and that includes on healthcare and many other issues.
43:48
Speaker 1: If you guys get power, there's going to be some
43:50
Speaker 1: pressure to impeach them. And I remember in five and
43:54
Speaker 1: six Nancy Pelosi took it off the table about Bush
43:59
Speaker 1: and you know, there are people said about the Iraq War,
44:01
Speaker 1: and you know you could have you know, look, as
44:03
Speaker 1: I always remind people, what's an impeachable offense? Anything a
44:06
Speaker 1: majority of the House decides is impeachable. Right, that's the
44:08
Speaker 1: way the Constitution actually reads. But we all have it
44:11
Speaker 1: in our head of what's impeachable or not. I they're
44:17
Speaker 1: going to run on if Democrats get power that you
44:19
Speaker 1: know that's all they're going to focus on, is impeachment.
44:23
Speaker 1: Would you take it off the table or do you
44:24
Speaker 1: think you shouldn't take it off the table.
44:26
Speaker 2: I don't think we should take it off the table.
44:28
Speaker 2: I mean, we have armed, masked federal agents murdering American
44:33
Speaker 2: citizens in broad daylight for the entire world to see.
44:36
Speaker 2: This is really nothing like the Bush era of politics.
44:41
Speaker 2: And you know, the word impeach has really sort of
44:45
Speaker 2: I think for probably for many young Americans kind of
44:47
Speaker 2: lost its meaning because we've seen impeachments that have really
44:50
Speaker 2: led to absolutely no change.
44:52
Speaker 1: They've become no different than censures or strongly worded press releases.
44:56
Speaker 2: You know, right right, So it just it feels so
44:59
Speaker 2: just be in to talk about it in that way.
45:01
Speaker 2: But no, we absolutely should not take that off the table.
45:04
Speaker 2: We don't. We can't take anything off the table. We
45:06
Speaker 2: have to. We have to fight fire with fire. And
45:09
Speaker 2: I hope that's a lesson that Democratic Party leaders have learned.
45:12
Speaker 2: I know it's a lesson that so many of us
45:15
Speaker 2: who are stepping up and raising our hands and running
45:17
Speaker 2: for office to cycle feel very driven to see through.
45:20
Speaker 1: So I want to one of the divide that I
45:22
Speaker 1: feel like captures the Democratic debate best is fighter versus United,
45:28
Speaker 1: meaning it's sort of your political instinct. And I would
45:31
Speaker 1: argue twenty eighteen, twenty twenty, the uniters won the debate
45:35
Speaker 1: inside these primaries, Right, that's Joe Biden. You know, that's
45:39
Speaker 1: you know, Ulyssa Slotkins. You know, I could make different,
45:42
Speaker 1: different comparisons that way. I get the sense now that
45:48
Speaker 1: you have an electorate that is looking for fighter. Right,
45:51
Speaker 1: that that explains why Gavin Newsom has gone from sort
45:53
Speaker 1: of nowhere to front runner. If you want to believe
45:56
Speaker 1: any of these early polls about twenty eight as he's
45:58
Speaker 1: been fighting the present, you strike me as like enough
46:03
Speaker 1: is enough. You know, I'm it's time to fight back.
46:09
Speaker 1: You know, we're a weird We're a strange bunch of Americans.
46:12
Speaker 1: We want fighters and uniters at the same time. How
46:14
Speaker 1: do you do both? Because ultimately that's what this middle wants.
46:18
Speaker 1: We want some stability, m we want some certainty, and
46:24
Speaker 1: we want some empathy.
46:27
Speaker 2: I mean, then you need a pediatrician. Like, I'm not
46:30
Speaker 2: trying to be corny.
46:31
Speaker 1: You're not wrong. I mean, you know you'd have me
46:34
Speaker 1: at pediatrician. I do think it's easier for you to
46:37
Speaker 1: make the case that you give a darn about somebody
46:39
Speaker 1: else other than yourself compared to the average politician. That
46:42
Speaker 1: I think is probably an advantage that you just walk
46:45
Speaker 1: into the door with yes.
46:47
Speaker 2: And you know, I think you know, when you work
46:49
Speaker 2: in a hospital as I do, you talk to parents.
46:52
Speaker 2: You're the one who tells parents their kid has cancer.
46:55
Speaker 2: You're the one who takes care of their kid that's
46:57
Speaker 2: been in a car accident. You're the one who tells them, oh,
47:00
Speaker 2: we're gonna have to sort of breathing tube and send
47:02
Speaker 2: them to the ICU. So you see, like real people
47:05
Speaker 2: facing real problems, and all of a sudden, a lot
47:07
Speaker 2: of this noise doesn't matter so much. You become very pragmatic.
47:11
Speaker 2: You have to be a fighter because you have to
47:13
Speaker 2: advocate for your patients, but you also have to just
47:16
Speaker 2: get the job done and work with whoever you need
47:19
Speaker 2: to work with. You know, just because the surgeon on
47:21
Speaker 2: call is someone I can't stand, doesn't mean I'm not
47:23
Speaker 2: going to consult the surgeon for my patient who needs surgery.
47:27
Speaker 2: So it's this combination of being like really scrappy, really smart,
47:31
Speaker 2: understanding that no matter what, the job just has to
47:34
Speaker 2: get done, and then also just you know, working with
47:38
Speaker 2: anybody who you need to work with to make that happen.
47:40
Speaker 2: So the problem with so many DC politicians is like
47:43
Speaker 2: they live in la la land. They are not connected
47:46
Speaker 2: to the real world. They haven't had a job where
47:48
Speaker 2: they actually had to, like you know, show results for
47:51
Speaker 2: their work for a really long time. And Lindsey Graham
47:53
Speaker 2: is a perfect example of that. So many of us
47:55
Speaker 2: work in the real world, whether we're teachers or nurses
47:58
Speaker 2: or doctors or whatever. We just get the job done.
48:01
Speaker 2: And that's what we need more of in Washington, d C.
48:03
Speaker 2: And less of these games.
48:05
Speaker 1: What I want to get very specific about AI regulation.
48:09
Speaker 1: As a medical professional, I imagine you have some strong
48:12
Speaker 1: feelings about how AI should be regulated in information. There's look,
48:18
Speaker 1: in the healthcare space, there's the most optimistic people about
48:23
Speaker 1: AI are usually associated with healthcare. Right, this idea that
48:27
Speaker 1: you know, my god, look we just mapped every protein
48:29
Speaker 1: in the human body, right, you know, there's this excitement
48:32
Speaker 1: that that we're going to have some huge leaps scientifically,
48:36
Speaker 1: and yet there's at the same time a lot of
48:38
Speaker 1: this dystopian distrust that we have. Congress is playing very
48:43
Speaker 1: little role right now in AI and you know about
48:47
Speaker 1: about the same amount of role they played at social media.
48:49
Speaker 1: We all know how well that went. So what what
48:51
Speaker 1: should Congress be doing? And if Democrats get control and
48:54
Speaker 1: you're winning there, what do you what what does AI
48:57
Speaker 1: regulation look like? When people ask you this question, You.
49:02
Speaker 2: Know, it's interesting to think about healthcare potentially being like
49:06
Speaker 2: the frontier of AI, because I kid you not, we
49:11
Speaker 2: still use Fax machines at pretty much every hospital in
49:14
Speaker 2: this country. So you know, the like the future and
49:19
Speaker 2: what could be is very disconnected from how the healthcare
49:22
Speaker 2: system actually works.
49:24
Speaker 1: Is a fault of the system? Is the system antiquated?
49:27
Speaker 1: Is that what you're trying to tell me?
49:29
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean it's we're not exactly like keen
49:32
Speaker 2: on innovation in healthcare. There's so many systemic barriers to
49:36
Speaker 2: adopting innovations.
49:37
Speaker 1: Everything's a system. There is no individualism I feel like
49:39
Speaker 1: in medical care.
49:40
Speaker 2: Yes, right, right, and it's and it's incredibly fragmented. So
49:44
Speaker 2: just you know, so maybe maybe DC Medicaid stops using
49:48
Speaker 2: Fax machines, but Virginia Medicaid still does. So now they
49:50
Speaker 2: can't talk to each other. I mean, it's just our
49:53
Speaker 2: healthcare system is deeply fragmented. I am excited about the
49:57
Speaker 2: potential even like simple AI innovations that can help doctors
50:00
Speaker 2: with the burden of all the charting we have to do.
50:03
Speaker 2: You know, the amount of time we spend actually talking
50:05
Speaker 2: to people versus clicking on our little keyboards is ridiculous
50:09
Speaker 2: and it's not a job satisfier for us, and it's
50:12
Speaker 2: certainly not a satisfier for patients. So there's some like
50:15
Speaker 2: really simple, low level AI and innovations that could improve
50:19
Speaker 2: the delivery of healthcare to Americans in a pragmatic fashion.
50:23
Speaker 2: But I think your analogy to Congress being asleep at
50:26
Speaker 2: the wheel with social media regulation is perfect. And I
50:29
Speaker 2: just worry that you know, in this in this capitalist
50:33
Speaker 2: driven society, that we're always thinking about profits, profits, profits
50:37
Speaker 2: before we think about the long term negative consequences. You know,
50:41
Speaker 2: I have my oldest daughter just turned fourteen yesterday, and
50:45
Speaker 2: she texted me out of the.
50:46
Speaker 1: Blue, Okay, good luck with that. That was an interesting age,
50:51
Speaker 1: Yes age, mom and daughter stuff are awesome at that age.
50:55
Speaker 1: Good luck so far, so good.
50:57
Speaker 2: But she said, when can I get Instagram? And I'm thinking,
51:00
Speaker 2: why don't we different? Wow?
51:01
Speaker 1: You made it to fourteen. You're should come on the trampolines.
51:06
Speaker 2: There's no social media. There's bike helmets everywhere. I'm a
51:10
Speaker 2: pediatrician mom. But we've got to think about our kids first.
51:14
Speaker 2: We've got to think about the long term negative consequences
51:17
Speaker 2: of these innovations. But I you know, I just worry
51:19
Speaker 2: that so much is there's so much dark money in politics,
51:22
Speaker 2: and so that's like driving how people vote, and we've
51:25
Speaker 2: just got to get the corruption out of the system
51:27
Speaker 2: so we can pass laws to regulate AI and social media.
51:30
Speaker 1: All right, let me have a little lighter fare here.
51:33
Speaker 1: Best TV doctors, best TV doctor show that gets it right.
51:38
Speaker 2: I mean, so, you know, I decided to be a
51:40
Speaker 2: doctor when I was four, and then I was in
51:41
Speaker 2: eighth grade when ER came out with George Accessor. Yes,
51:45
Speaker 2: I love R. But now the Pit is like perfect,
51:48
Speaker 2: you know, I just I don't.
51:50
Speaker 1: Tell Michael Crichton's errors, but yes, the Pit is the
51:53
Speaker 1: natural heir to R.
51:54
Speaker 2: Right, that's right, that's right. And I just it's so
51:57
Speaker 2: realistic in the way that it portrays like all of
52:00
Speaker 2: societal's ills showing up in an emergency department and all
52:04
Speaker 2: of the things that make being a healthcare provider so difficult.
52:07
Speaker 2: It is incredibly validating, especially the first season when they
52:11
Speaker 2: have those flashbacks to COVID, because if you live online,
52:15
Speaker 2: if you live even in this political world where I live,
52:17
Speaker 2: you start to forget how real COVID was and how
52:20
Speaker 2: devastating it was, and all of the people who died
52:22
Speaker 2: and the doctors who put their lives on the line
52:24
Speaker 2: to care for these patients before we understood anything about
52:27
Speaker 2: this virus, and you get gaslit into thinking it wasn't
52:30
Speaker 2: a big deal. But I think the PIT does such
52:32
Speaker 2: a good job of, like really showing what reality is.
52:34
Speaker 1: Like. I have a friend of mine who runs a
52:36
Speaker 1: hospital in Pensacola, and the most frustrating aspect was people
52:40
Speaker 1: that didn't believe him when he said no, no, no, no,
52:43
Speaker 1: let me. Would you like to take a tour of
52:44
Speaker 1: my ICU because I don't have a single open bed
52:48
Speaker 1: and the lack I mean, I am not advocating cameras
52:52
Speaker 1: in hospital surgical wards and all this stuff, but I
52:57
Speaker 1: don't know if Americans truly understood what happened in emergency rooms,
53:01
Speaker 1: and I see.
53:01
Speaker 2: Us they don't, and the ones who maybe did for
53:05
Speaker 2: a minute have forgotten it and consumed all of the
53:08
Speaker 2: disinformation about it. It's really quite devastating when you think
53:13
Speaker 2: about the millions of Americans who died, or if you
53:15
Speaker 2: think about all the healthcare providers who risked their lives.
53:17
Speaker 2: It was such a scary time as a hospital based position.
53:22
Speaker 1: All Right, So I asked your favorite hospital show? What's
53:24
Speaker 1: your favorite political show or movie that you've seen?
53:27
Speaker 2: The West Wing?
53:29
Speaker 1: You're a super optimist. You don't. You didn't do any
53:32
Speaker 1: of the dystopian stuff. You did all the good stuff
53:35
Speaker 1: right the er dot like there was no like, it's
53:37
Speaker 1: not a house of cards. You didn't go dark. You
53:39
Speaker 1: went light. I mean, look, I love to me Samharansorkid,
53:42
Speaker 1: but my god, he paints a fantasy world that does
53:45
Speaker 1: not exist. But god was. I'm hopeful and wistful of
53:50
Speaker 1: of said era, but I love her optimism.
53:52
Speaker 2: You can ask me that question again, like halfway through
53:54
Speaker 2: my first term in the US sentence, See if.
53:57
Speaker 1: Your mind changes on that. Well, how much is this?
54:04
Speaker 1: You know? Look, when you run for office, you're always
54:06
Speaker 1: a candidate, You always on record, et cetera, et cetera.
54:09
Speaker 1: Is this seven days a week? Is it five days
54:11
Speaker 1: a week? Like what's your rhythm as a candidate right now?
54:15
Speaker 2: I mean it certainly is like one hundred and ten
54:17
Speaker 2: percent job. It's seven days a week, but I'm also
54:20
Speaker 2: a mom of three school age children. Very busy season
54:23
Speaker 2: of my kids with there fourteen, eleven and nine. My
54:28
Speaker 2: fourteen year old had you know, about eighteen of her
54:30
Speaker 2: friends over here. On Saturday morning. We hosted like a
54:34
Speaker 2: breakfast birthday party. And that was after I got home
54:37
Speaker 2: at about midnight Friday night after going to a huge
54:40
Speaker 2: AKA gala in Columbia, South Carolina. So it's really just
54:44
Speaker 2: and that was after I worked for a few days
54:46
Speaker 2: in the hospital where I work, which is actually in Washington,
54:49
Speaker 2: d C. So I'm doing three different, very big jobs
54:52
Speaker 2: all at once. There absolutely is no rhythm other than
54:55
Speaker 2: I try to get as much sleep as I can.
54:58
Speaker 2: And I look forward to, you know, Midsummer when I
55:01
Speaker 2: really can focus fully on the campaign and my kids
55:05
Speaker 2: as I take a step back from the hospital job,
55:07
Speaker 2: because the South Carolina deserves a full time Senate candidates,
55:10
Speaker 2: and I look forward to that.
55:11
Speaker 1: All right, last question, Clem Center, South Carolina.
55:14
Speaker 2: Oh jeez, trying to get me in trouble.
55:19
Speaker 1: Yes, that's you got to take a stand. Right, everybody
55:22
Speaker 1: does go sports?
55:23
Speaker 2: How about that?
55:24
Speaker 1: Oh wow, look, not not getting into that at all.
55:27
Speaker 1: What's I mean, it's tough, right. Columbia is the state capital,
55:30
Speaker 1: so that's in one. You know, Clemson's more successful, so
55:33
Speaker 1: it's probably not an easy answer.
55:34
Speaker 2: Is and Clemson is, you know, like Lindsay Graham's backyard.
55:37
Speaker 2: And I gotta tell you, I see, I've been filling
55:39
Speaker 2: up rooms in the upstate of South Carolina, right in
55:42
Speaker 2: Lindsay Graham's hometown. So he's he's in trouble.
55:46
Speaker 1: There's a fun diner in Greenville that I liked up there.
55:50
Speaker 1: I can't remember the name of it, but it's like
55:51
Speaker 1: where everybody goes right before the Clemson football games. Okay, yeah,
55:57
Speaker 1: but anyway, uh, doctor, this is great to get to
56:00
Speaker 1: know you. Appreciate you coming on.
56:02
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me Chucks.