Latest / The You Project / #2061 Finding Purpose in the Mayhem - Bobby Cappuccio

Transcript

#2061 Finding Purpose in the Mayhem - Bobby Cappuccio · The You Project

0:00
Speaker 1: I get a tam it's a you project, It's Jumbo,
0:02
Speaker 1: It's Fatty Harps, It's Craig Anthony Harperrids, Tiffany and Cook,
0:05
Speaker 1: It's Robert, Robert, Robert. What's your middle name again? What's
0:10
Speaker 1: his middle name? Roberts? Do you have a middle name,
0:12
Speaker 1: Bobby does? It's Joseph Joseph. Of course I knew that. Robert,
0:18
Speaker 1: Joseph Capuccio, Tiffany and Cook, tiff What are you looking
0:21
Speaker 1: like that? Did your dog just break into your studio
0:25
Speaker 1: the door?
0:26
Speaker 2: Did you slide a jar? And I'm like, if that
0:28
Speaker 2: is bere we are in for a ride.
0:30
Speaker 1: Wow. Wow, Well, there's no animal that's going to break
0:33
Speaker 1: into my studio because I'm animal less, but I could
0:36
Speaker 1: be animal full by about February or March, depending on
0:40
Speaker 1: the outcome of my PhD and the timing with that.
0:42
Speaker 1: And you did send me a photograph of a dog,
0:46
Speaker 1: tiff that's the most terrifying fucking canine I've ever laid eyes.
0:50
Speaker 2: On, but so weirdly beautiful, captivating, even kind.
0:54
Speaker 1: Of look like an old leather boot that was three
0:57
Speaker 1: foot high. A Mexican can hairless. Is that what it's called?
1:02
Speaker 2: Yes? Yes, I'm trying to google the pronunciation of the
1:05
Speaker 2: breed because the word itself to read is yeah.
1:08
Speaker 1: Because which sounds like a cat more than a dog,
1:11
Speaker 1: and it's it's bobby. You should see this dog. It's
1:14
Speaker 1: like the size of a labrador or bigger, but it's
1:17
Speaker 1: got zero hair, and it looks like maybe like the
1:23
Speaker 1: size of a big greyhound. Well it looks it's.
1:25
Speaker 2: Kind of yeah, it's kind of like a maybe a
1:27
Speaker 2: Doberman size.
1:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's big, and it looks like it's made of leather.
1:32
Speaker 2: So it's pronounced queen tlea sholder.
1:36
Speaker 1: Sorry say that again.
1:38
Speaker 2: Show lo eats queen tea, which is spelled x O
1:43
Speaker 2: l o I t z c u I n t
1:48
Speaker 2: l I. No one in the world could possibly look
1:52
Speaker 2: at that word and pronounce that correctly, unless maybe they
1:55
Speaker 2: were Mexican.
1:56
Speaker 1: I'm yeah, or I bet somebody could. Yeah, that's a
2:01
Speaker 1: weird looking dog. What was it like in that that
2:03
Speaker 1: kind of like I was a bit intrigued and a
2:05
Speaker 1: bit repelled and a bit curious what it's like. Kind
2:09
Speaker 1: of ugly but almost beautiful. Ugly.
2:11
Speaker 2: Look. I just saw it from a distance and it
2:14
Speaker 2: looked like an old like one of those statues that
2:19
Speaker 2: sits on the pillars of an old castle. It looked
2:21
Speaker 2: like that had come alive out of stone and just
2:25
Speaker 2: strolled on into sin Kilda. And they've got a really
2:28
Speaker 2: beautiful temperament. They look like they would be kind of
2:31
Speaker 2: an aggressive fighting dog. It's beautiful.
2:35
Speaker 3: I would imagine they would be. They're probably called all
2:37
Speaker 3: the time that would piss me off.
2:40
Speaker 1: Yes, I had a.
2:41
Speaker 3: Friend of mine. I had a friend of mine who
2:44
Speaker 3: she used to breed hairless sphinx and I went to
2:48
Speaker 3: replace one night and there were five of them, and
2:51
Speaker 3: they had these weird jumpers on because they get quite cold,
2:55
Speaker 3: and it's just like a bunch of house cats and jumpers.
2:59
Speaker 3: So already it's like, oh, this is what people talk
3:01
Speaker 3: about when they talk about like a really bad acid trip.
3:04
Speaker 3: This must be exactly.
3:05
Speaker 1: Like Wow, wow, I imagine hayless cat in a jumper.
3:10
Speaker 1: You'd already have enough is shoes, having no hair when
3:12
Speaker 1: all the other fucking cats have got here, and then
3:15
Speaker 1: I just jump.
3:16
Speaker 3: It was like little turtlenecks they were all running around in.
3:20
Speaker 3: And they turned out to be, like most cats, highly
3:24
Speaker 3: intelligent and so interactive and affectionate. Two of them climbed
3:30
Speaker 3: me at the same time, at the same exact pace,
3:33
Speaker 3: and both started licking each side of my head.
3:37
Speaker 1: Wow, which we are we still having the same chat?
3:45
Speaker 1: Are we talking about your box? Not? Because I think
3:52
Speaker 1: those stories are interchangeable. Oh that's great, That's just great.
4:01
Speaker 4: Welcome, Welcome to the show, everybody, And if it's the
4:04
Speaker 4: three of you who are still here, we'll try and
4:07
Speaker 4: regale you with some stories and some potentially something of
4:11
Speaker 4: value that might help you, I don't know, do something positive.
4:15
Speaker 1: With your life, or your time or your energy. TIF
4:19
Speaker 1: what have you been up to this morning? Anytime?
4:24
Speaker 2: Oh, anytime, anytime. I've been out and about a lot lately.
4:28
Speaker 2: So this morning I tried to have a sleep and
4:29
Speaker 2: I slept into a whopping six am, which is quite
4:33
Speaker 2: quite a profound sleeping for me as of late. Been
4:38
Speaker 2: enjoying the sun, eating cookies obviously, and catching up on.
4:44
Speaker 1: Work, all the basics. Vital Well, Now, Fatty Harps is
4:48
Speaker 1: on the home straight. I feel like I've been saying
4:50
Speaker 1: that for fucking three years, but I'm actually on the
4:52
Speaker 1: home of my PhD, my timeline, my candi. That you
4:56
Speaker 1: finishes January sixteenth, so like it or not, it's coming
5:01
Speaker 1: to an end, so there's absolutely no pressure with any
5:04
Speaker 1: of that. And great sleep, great sleep. No, I'm actually
5:10
Speaker 1: sleeping all right.
5:11
Speaker 2: But I see the imprint of a birthday hat on
5:15
Speaker 2: your head somewhere today, Can I see that? Oh? Wow?
5:19
Speaker 1: I went and saw I went and saw Mary Harper.
5:21
Speaker 1: And the old Da was eighty six yesterday, December three,
5:26
Speaker 1: the year of our Lord, nineteen thirty nine, and o
5:29
Speaker 1: domini she was now an interesting story. I don't know
5:33
Speaker 1: if if you do bump into my mum anyone, don't
5:36
Speaker 1: mention this because it's not the it's not the most
5:39
Speaker 1: uplifting story. But my mom's mom died giving birth to
5:42
Speaker 1: my mum, so my mom never knew her mum. So
5:47
Speaker 1: it's like you know when you like, oh, who are
5:50
Speaker 1: you like out of your parents, or it's like, well, yeah,
5:53
Speaker 1: so she she was born nine thirty nine, first year
5:59
Speaker 1: of the World War, and she's still around. And it
6:03
Speaker 1: was great to see the old Dahl and the old
6:05
Speaker 1: man is not you're not moving like a gazelle. Will
6:09
Speaker 1: say that he's not going to do any fucking ten
6:12
Speaker 1: k time trial anytime soon. But it was good to
6:16
Speaker 1: catch up with him and eat some food and talk
6:19
Speaker 1: shit and then head home at stupid o'clock and have
6:22
Speaker 1: nine minutes of sleep and then get up and ingest
6:25
Speaker 1: some caffeine just to get my brain working. And here
6:28
Speaker 1: we are. What about you, Robert, how have you been?
6:30
Speaker 1: What have you been up to?
6:32
Speaker 3: I've been having a lot of caffeine as well, probably
6:35
Speaker 3: a bit too much, just work. Last week was a
6:39
Speaker 3: holiday here in the US, Thanksgiving?
6:44
Speaker 1: What is the origin story of Thanksgiving?
6:46
Speaker 3: For us?
6:46
Speaker 1: Non Thanksgiving people? I know that I think a few
6:50
Speaker 1: Australians actually celebrate it, but it's obviously not an Australian holiday.
6:55
Speaker 1: And I'm sure every American knows every once of the
7:00
Speaker 1: story of its its genesis. But what can you bobby
7:04
Speaker 1: a fight in sixty seconds?
7:06
Speaker 3: For us?
7:06
Speaker 1: What is Thanksgiving about?
7:09
Speaker 3: Well, it's when the Pilgrims left Plymouth, England and landed
7:12
Speaker 3: in well Plymouth coincidentally and by way of Holland. I
7:20
Speaker 3: believe we leave that bit out, and they met the
7:25
Speaker 3: Native Americans and they formed this lovely friendship because the
7:30
Speaker 3: Native Americans helped them through the first hard winter, and
7:34
Speaker 3: without the help of the Native Americans they would not
7:37
Speaker 3: have survived.
7:38
Speaker 1: And then to show their appreciation, they gave.
7:41
Speaker 3: Them small parks and basically killed everyone in horribly violent
7:46
Speaker 3: and sadistic ways. And every year we celebrate that on Thanksgiving.
7:53
Speaker 1: What, well, that's the worst story I've ever heard. Are
7:57
Speaker 1: you trying to depress any everyone?
8:00
Speaker 3: Okay? School, well, school, you hear that?
8:03
Speaker 1: Okay?
8:04
Speaker 3: That they came in, they made great friends with these
8:07
Speaker 3: Native American people who were very, very different from them,
8:11
Speaker 3: and apparently the Pilgrims had enormous respect and curiosity about
8:17
Speaker 3: people's differences. When you get to know the story, and
8:21
Speaker 3: they had this big feast to celebrate how grateful they
8:26
Speaker 3: were and they called this Thanksgiving, and you know, then
8:30
Speaker 3: you get a little bit older and you start to
8:32
Speaker 3: learn a little bit more history, and it's like, I
8:35
Speaker 3: don't know, I don't know if if I could say
8:37
Speaker 3: that the historical relationship between the indigenous people in the
8:43
Speaker 3: United States and people who came over from Europe was
8:47
Speaker 3: always defined as friendly. So what it depends on your
8:53
Speaker 3: definition of the word friendship.
8:56
Speaker 1: So what is it now like in twenty twenty five?
8:58
Speaker 1: What is it? And I'm sure I'm sure that maybe
9:02
Speaker 1: that for some people that the historical kind of relevance
9:07
Speaker 1: may shouldn't have but may have disappeared, Like what is it?
9:11
Speaker 1: And that story shouldn't be forgotten or it should probably
9:14
Speaker 1: be taught and told more. But what is it in
9:16
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five is where families just get together and
9:19
Speaker 1: hang out?
9:21
Speaker 3: Yeah? Now, I mean, now it's just the day to
9:24
Speaker 3: get together. And I mean I don't want to be
9:26
Speaker 3: cynical at all, and typically I'm not cynical. But for
9:30
Speaker 3: for some people, I guess it's it's it's just a
9:35
Speaker 3: really important national holiday. For other people, it's a reason
9:39
Speaker 3: to get together with family members that you haven't seen
9:43
Speaker 3: all the year. You know, some of which you love,
9:45
Speaker 3: some of who you despise, and you get together with
9:47
Speaker 3: them purely out of obligation. You eat a perverse amount
9:51
Speaker 3: of food and drink, and you know, just pass out
9:55
Speaker 3: in a stupor.
9:56
Speaker 1: Is there any kind of what's the word pushback? Like
10:04
Speaker 1: in Australia, we have on January twenty sixth, correct me
10:07
Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, tiff thing called Australia Day, and that
10:12
Speaker 1: gets quite a lot of pushback because the origin story,
10:15
Speaker 1: the story you just told us not that different, you
10:18
Speaker 1: know for Australia. And I'm not trying to be political
10:21
Speaker 1: or polarize anyone. I'm just curious, like, and there's been
10:25
Speaker 1: a lot of let's say, argument and debate even conflict
10:32
Speaker 1: around whether or not Australia Day should be a thing.
10:35
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying it should or it shouldn't. I'm
10:37
Speaker 1: just talking about what's been going on over the last
10:39
Speaker 1: decade or two. Is there any pushback in the States
10:43
Speaker 1: against this celebration.
10:48
Speaker 3: I don't hear that much about Thanksgiving, and I'm sure
10:50
Speaker 3: there is pushback, But we've had pushback on certain holidays,
10:53
Speaker 3: like Columbus Day, for example. That's been an ongoing debate
10:57
Speaker 3: because the story of Christopher Columbus it's not I mean,
11:02
Speaker 3: there's a couple of different origin stories, let's just put
11:04
Speaker 3: it that way. They don't line up with one another
11:08
Speaker 3: very well. But but here in you know, the United States,
11:12
Speaker 3: where we're very much against revisionist history, we like to
11:19
Speaker 3: we like to confront the past, all of our achievements
11:23
Speaker 3: and our mistakes, and take a sobering, honest view at
11:28
Speaker 3: what we have done and who we are, and how
11:31
Speaker 3: we can learn from that and just basically become better
11:37
Speaker 3: people and build a society that respects differences and works
11:43
Speaker 3: for as many people as possible.
11:47
Speaker 1: It's the pulse button. Okay, I want to chat about
11:50
Speaker 1: something else. Thank you for that. Thank you for enlightening me.
11:52
Speaker 1: I was chatting with somebody this morning and sounds clachy
11:56
Speaker 1: and not true. It's completely true. And I've been asked
11:58
Speaker 1: a version of this question a lot, and it was
12:01
Speaker 1: essentially it wasn't exactly this question, but it was kind
12:05
Speaker 1: of what they were asking, which is essentially, how do
12:09
Speaker 1: I find my purpose? Right? Like? What I'm the thing?
12:14
Speaker 1: And it's just a really it's an interesting conversation that
12:17
Speaker 1: I wanted to open up for both you and also
12:20
Speaker 1: around that. So what's my purpose?
12:22
Speaker 2: Like?
12:22
Speaker 1: Do I have one? Or maybe I have multiple purposes?
12:26
Speaker 1: And what does that even mean? Purpose? Am I like
12:29
Speaker 1: a utensil in my life? It feels like we just
12:32
Speaker 1: have one thing that we are capable of doing. On
12:36
Speaker 1: top of that, does my purpose stay the same or
12:39
Speaker 1: can it change? Can it evolve? Was my purpose or
12:42
Speaker 1: my focus or my life meaning or whatever? Twenty five
12:45
Speaker 1: at twenty five the same as when I'm sixty two?
12:48
Speaker 1: Does it need to be? Can I change my mind?
12:51
Speaker 1: How do I find my purpose? Do I? Is it
12:55
Speaker 1: some kind of spiritual or existential revelation or awareness that
12:59
Speaker 1: happens upon me. Or is it just like I have
13:03
Speaker 1: an experience or I just literally make a decision. What
13:06
Speaker 1: do you what are your thoughts around I'm going to
13:08
Speaker 1: start with you, actually, Tiff, What do you in terms
13:10
Speaker 1: of when somebody says to you life purpose? What do
13:14
Speaker 1: you think about? Do you think of a single thing,
13:16
Speaker 1: multiple things, or you don't think about that in that
13:18
Speaker 1: way at all.
13:19
Speaker 2: I think it changes, and I think it I think
13:23
Speaker 2: of multiple things because it's evolved over time. And I
13:26
Speaker 2: think the more we learn and evolve and land in
13:29
Speaker 2: new places and when I have a different outlook, Like
13:36
Speaker 2: you know, when I was living in Tazzy, my purpose
13:39
Speaker 2: was just grow up, get a job, make some money,
13:42
Speaker 2: do the thing. And then I moved and then my
13:45
Speaker 2: world opened up and I read some books and my
13:47
Speaker 2: world changed and my purpose became different, and it was
13:51
Speaker 2: it was a different version of that same thing. Like
13:54
Speaker 2: I when I went to India last year and I
13:57
Speaker 2: stood on that mountain and I went, oh, huh, you
14:01
Speaker 2: think that you're doing life so differently? Or sometimes I
14:06
Speaker 2: have conversations on these shows and I think to myself, oh,
14:10
Speaker 2: you think you're doing life so differently. You think you've
14:12
Speaker 2: broken the mold. You are the mold like you are.
14:15
Speaker 2: You have not broken any molds. You're still do the
14:18
Speaker 2: same versions of things that are just one point removed
14:22
Speaker 2: from that little box that you initially.
14:25
Speaker 1: Thought was Like, I feel like I'm going to ask
14:29
Speaker 1: you in a sec Bobby, but I feel like for me,
14:32
Speaker 1: for me, my purpose has to be bigger than me,
14:36
Speaker 1: Like it can't really be. Of course, it's a bit
14:38
Speaker 1: about me, but it's really a bit about me being
14:41
Speaker 1: of that. And I know this sounds cliche and bullshitty,
14:43
Speaker 1: but it's true for me being of service and value.
14:45
Speaker 1: And you know, like even with this show, hopefully people
14:49
Speaker 1: enjoy it, Hopefully people get something from it. Hopefully people
14:52
Speaker 1: get a bit of enlightenment or a bit of enjoyment
14:54
Speaker 1: or a bit of inspiration, and then hopefully they make
14:57
Speaker 1: a decision or two and hopefully they take some action.
15:00
Speaker 1: Hopefully they create some results that they may not have
15:03
Speaker 1: created had they not intersected with the you project. Hopefully, right, So,
15:08
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, there's when I used to
15:11
Speaker 1: want stuff for me that I think that was just
15:13
Speaker 1: more about my focus and my self centered kind of
15:17
Speaker 1: needs rather than a purpose. I don't know that I
15:20
Speaker 1: even had a purpose when I was young, other than
15:23
Speaker 1: just fucking looking after me, which really it doesn't you know,
15:27
Speaker 1: to me, purpose has got to be beyond me and
15:30
Speaker 1: bigger than me, I think, Bobby, I'll go on, Tiff, Sorry.
15:34
Speaker 2: I was just going to ask you about that. When
15:36
Speaker 2: do do you feel like there was a moment where
15:38
Speaker 2: you really landed on that idea of it being bigger
15:43
Speaker 2: than you?
15:43
Speaker 1: Luck? Yeah, I think without reopening a door that's been
15:50
Speaker 1: maybe too many times and listeners, apologies, but I think
15:54
Speaker 1: once I started to open the let's just call it
15:57
Speaker 1: the god door, where I just came became more interested
16:00
Speaker 1: in or curious about, you know, is there anything beyond
16:05
Speaker 1: what I can see and touch and feel and what
16:08
Speaker 1: I think is and try, you know, like, what does
16:12
Speaker 1: that mean? And I think, really for me, when I
16:16
Speaker 1: became moderately successful, when I was moderately young, and I
16:21
Speaker 1: was making you know, pretty good dough, and I had
16:25
Speaker 1: a pretty good thing going on by the time I
16:27
Speaker 1: was in my mid to late twenties. You know, I
16:31
Speaker 1: wasn't rich, but I was, and even in the middle
16:34
Speaker 1: of going great, I'm like, ah, this isn't bad. This
16:38
Speaker 1: is definitely you know, my goal is not to make
16:41
Speaker 1: less money, but clearly this isn't what it's about, because
16:45
Speaker 1: I still the things that I felt, which is an
16:48
Speaker 1: adequate and insecure and somewhat unfulfilled and periodically anxious and
16:52
Speaker 1: a bit sad, and that was all still there. And
16:55
Speaker 1: then I realized my revelation was when I focus more
17:02
Speaker 1: on others, I'm less selfish. And also there's and it
17:06
Speaker 1: almost sounds selfish, like doing something for others to get
17:09
Speaker 1: something for you. But I just noticed that when I'm
17:12
Speaker 1: not all about me, and when i'm you know, genuinely
17:18
Speaker 1: trying to be of value and service to others, I'm
17:20
Speaker 1: a better version of me. And so I try to,
17:23
Speaker 1: you know, at least have that attitude through the day.
17:26
Speaker 1: And of course sometimes I'm a selfish prick, and sometimes
17:29
Speaker 1: I'm all about me, and sometimes I'm unaware. So I
17:32
Speaker 1: acknowledge all of that, but I know for me personally,
17:36
Speaker 1: absolutely unequivocally, that when I have a purpose bigger than me,
17:40
Speaker 1: I'm just a much better human.
17:41
Speaker 2: Can you remember last question? Can you remember the first
17:44
Speaker 2: big other focused experience that really hamm'd a home?
17:51
Speaker 1: Well, I've had quite a few. The earliest one or
17:58
Speaker 1: just one does have to be the first one.
18:00
Speaker 2: Just one, No, just one?
18:01
Speaker 1: Well, I just think again without playing a broken record,
18:05
Speaker 1: like working with Johnny for all the years. John's a
18:08
Speaker 1: friend of mine. I know, my listeners know. But those
18:11
Speaker 1: three of you who don't, who got literally blown up
18:14
Speaker 1: in an industrial accident of work accident, some gas bottles
18:17
Speaker 1: exploded and all that, and so eight years ago, it
18:20
Speaker 1: was eight years ago, about three or four days ago,
18:24
Speaker 1: you know, and just and you know him. How beautiful
18:27
Speaker 1: is he? How amazing is he? Yeah? And I mean,
18:30
Speaker 1: here's this guy who's got a traumatic brain injury. He's
18:33
Speaker 1: got to put a thing up. He's a wizor to
18:35
Speaker 1: have a whee. He's got a bag for pooh. He's
18:37
Speaker 1: got a spinal cord. He knows. He doesn't mind me
18:39
Speaker 1: talking about this, like he can't pooh, he can't where,
18:41
Speaker 1: he can't have sex. He's in constant pain. He's got
18:44
Speaker 1: a spinal cord injury. He's got a traumatic brain injury.
18:47
Speaker 1: His life is I mean hard, doesn't come close, right,
18:51
Speaker 1: Never complaints. You've probably been in the gym four five
18:55
Speaker 1: hundred times when he trains. Never complaints, just doesn't plane.
19:01
Speaker 1: And for me to be able to be to be
19:03
Speaker 1: a tiny bit of something positive in his life gives
19:08
Speaker 1: me so much more joy than anything I do for myself. Yeah,
19:12
Speaker 1: you know so, Bobby, Sorry for leaving you over in
19:16
Speaker 1: the virtual corner all that time.
19:20
Speaker 3: It's not the first time it's happened. I mean, that's
19:22
Speaker 3: the virtual corner. This is the first time in the
19:25
Speaker 3: virtual corner. Feels a little bit different. I think everyone
19:31
Speaker 3: has a purpose. I think we need to define it.
19:34
Speaker 3: Like when we say purpose, what exactly are we talking about?
19:38
Speaker 1: Good question I'm talking about.
19:39
Speaker 3: When I say purpose, is what happens when you have
19:45
Speaker 3: a strongly rooted value, something that's really meaningful to you.
19:50
Speaker 3: Like let's say love of learning. That's something that is
19:53
Speaker 3: meaningful to me, and when I engage in it, it
19:57
Speaker 3: makes me feel more alive. Now when you go out
20:00
Speaker 3: and you express that in the world. Let's say I'm
20:04
Speaker 3: sitting around a coffee table and I'm sharing these ideas
20:07
Speaker 3: that have deeply impacted me and I found them to
20:11
Speaker 3: be valuable and they impact other people around me.
20:15
Speaker 1: Not everyone around me.
20:16
Speaker 3: Some people couldn't give a shit and wish I would
20:18
Speaker 3: like shut up and stop going on about this book
20:21
Speaker 3: I'm reading, but other people it impacts them in a
20:24
Speaker 3: way that elevates their well being, either in the moment
20:29
Speaker 3: or long term. And when you are expressing those values
20:33
Speaker 3: in a way that impacts people to elevate their well being,
20:39
Speaker 3: I believe that is your purpose.
20:42
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So have you changed your mind or changed
20:49
Speaker 1: your focus or change your trajectory along the way? I mean,
20:54
Speaker 1: I know I've changed my mind on many things, and
20:56
Speaker 1: I've had to unlearned things and know and up to
20:58
Speaker 1: things I got wrong. And but what about you?
21:01
Speaker 2: Have you like?
21:02
Speaker 1: Is are you pretty much just a twenty year older
21:05
Speaker 1: version of the blow from two decades ago? Or are
21:09
Speaker 1: you different? And if so, how and how is your
21:11
Speaker 1: focus and your purpose and passion different?
21:14
Speaker 3: If it is, I hope I've changed. I hope my
21:18
Speaker 3: focus and lens is different. I'm not all that sure
21:22
Speaker 3: that my values have shifted that much, although they do
21:25
Speaker 3: shift year to year. I've taken I like the via
21:31
Speaker 3: assessment from doctor Morton Seligman because it's coming from the
21:38
Speaker 3: perspective that your highest values and your signature strengths are
21:44
Speaker 3: one and the same. And I strongly believe that, and
21:47
Speaker 3: I think that has a lot of utility to it. Yeah,
21:51
Speaker 3: if you are living out a value consistently, you're probably
21:58
Speaker 3: going to develop some skill. You're probably going to develop
22:01
Speaker 3: some proficiency within that area, whether that shows up in
22:05
Speaker 3: work or parenting. So I like that concept. So every
22:10
Speaker 3: few years my value shift, but my highest values they
22:15
Speaker 3: might shift in order a priority, but they stay fairly consistent.
22:20
Speaker 1: Mm. Is there something, Tiff, Is there something over the
22:26
Speaker 1: last I don't know how long that you've changed your
22:29
Speaker 1: mind about that or you think you got wrong or
22:33
Speaker 1: in the context of the big picture stuff life, how
22:36
Speaker 1: you live, you know, maybe even values. Is there something
22:40
Speaker 1: that you've changed your mind about there doesn't need to be,
22:43
Speaker 1: So if there isn't just go no, not really.
22:45
Speaker 2: But I think I have an awareness that I would
22:52
Speaker 2: like to and am not yet stepping out to expand.
22:57
Speaker 2: I don't know what I've experienced and what I where
23:01
Speaker 2: I want to end up or what I want to do.
23:03
Speaker 2: Like I just yeah, I don't know. I'm very aware
23:05
Speaker 2: that I maybe to a degree, I love what I'm
23:08
Speaker 2: doing and I love where I'm heading, but I I
23:13
Speaker 2: don't know, I don't know what I'm trying.
23:16
Speaker 1: How much of us? So all three of us get
23:17
Speaker 1: in front of audiences, right, Yeah, I'm going to start
23:20
Speaker 1: with you, Bobby, and then come back to you. TIF.
23:23
Speaker 1: How much of what you talk about when you're in
23:25
Speaker 1: front of a group, Bobby, is something that you read
23:29
Speaker 1: or what we might call a quiet knowledge. You know,
23:31
Speaker 1: you read it, you heard it, and you do a
23:33
Speaker 1: lot of reading, and you've got a fucking incredible memory
23:35
Speaker 1: that I don't have, So I'm forever jealous of your
23:38
Speaker 1: amazing brain and your amazing memory. How much of what
23:41
Speaker 1: you share, and I'm sure it varies a little, but
23:45
Speaker 1: is just about stuff that you've learned acquiet knowledge research,
23:48
Speaker 1: all that kind of theoretical stuff, which is also important.
23:52
Speaker 1: And how much is just shit you've learned along the way,
23:55
Speaker 1: like experiential stuff that you go, Okay, I've been through
23:59
Speaker 1: a situation like that, and this is what happened and
24:01
Speaker 1: this is how I figured it out.
24:04
Speaker 3: When I'm at my best. It's one hundred percent in
24:08
Speaker 3: both categories. There's no delineation because I bring in research.
24:13
Speaker 3: It's because of my own personal experience and my connection
24:17
Speaker 3: and what I'm looking to accomplish with the audience or
24:20
Speaker 3: what journey I'm trying to take people on when I'm
24:25
Speaker 3: not at my best, I tend to stick to, Okay, well,
24:29
Speaker 3: what's the curriculum, what am I need to teach, what
24:32
Speaker 3: research supports this, where's the evidence, where's the proof? I
24:38
Speaker 3: think that when the connection is where it needs to be,
24:44
Speaker 3: I bring all of myself into everything I say, regardless
24:49
Speaker 3: of the context, regardless of whether it's empirical or anecdotal.
24:54
Speaker 3: I am right there in the middle of everything that
24:57
Speaker 3: I communicate.
24:59
Speaker 1: Do you have a gain in that space where you know,
25:02
Speaker 1: for one of a less wanky term, you feel like
25:05
Speaker 1: you're in flow and just time time just kind of
25:08
Speaker 1: becomes a different thing.
25:11
Speaker 3: It's so funny because the answer to that used to be,
25:15
Speaker 3: at a minimum fifty percent of the time, I would
25:19
Speaker 3: say most of the things that I did work related
25:23
Speaker 3: put me in a state of flap, like where I
25:26
Speaker 3: would put my head down and I would be writing,
25:29
Speaker 3: and I picked my head up, I'm like, God, it's
25:31
Speaker 3: dark out and I started in the middle of the afternoon,
25:34
Speaker 3: like I've literally been here for hours. It feels like
25:36
Speaker 3: it's been fifteen minutes. On stage definitely, where I disappear
25:43
Speaker 3: and I come to at the end of the presentation,
25:47
Speaker 3: exhausted and feeling like, oh wow, that was that was amazing,
25:51
Speaker 3: but having no experience of it being amazing while I'm
25:54
Speaker 3: doing it. Lately, those flow experiences have been well, just decreasing.
26:02
Speaker 1: That's saying that people have. You know, I've said it
26:06
Speaker 1: and again apologized for the cheese for the gooda. It
26:11
Speaker 1: doesn't come from me. It comes through me, right, and
26:14
Speaker 1: sometimes not every second time, But there have been times
26:19
Speaker 1: in my life where, especially one time, I just had
26:22
Speaker 1: this kind of I hope it's not at once in
26:25
Speaker 1: a lifetime experience, but it was fucking amazing. It was
26:29
Speaker 1: I don't know what it was, just it was spiritual.
26:32
Speaker 1: It was like when I was at Tiff, you were there.
26:35
Speaker 1: I think at Deacon maybe you were there, and there
26:40
Speaker 1: was seven hundred odd people and three hours went like
26:43
Speaker 1: thirty minutes, and I looked up at one stage and
26:46
Speaker 1: there were four hundred of the seven hundred people balling,
26:50
Speaker 1: and one minute later laughing, and that time flew and
26:53
Speaker 1: I had people lined up for an hour and yes,
26:57
Speaker 1: all that feels good for your ego, but some thing
27:00
Speaker 1: happened that was way more powerful than me, and I'm like,
27:04
Speaker 1: fucking hell, I don't even know how to do that again.
27:07
Speaker 1: And then when everyone went and it was a long time,
27:09
Speaker 1: so maybe we finished at five, and every probably six
27:12
Speaker 1: point thirty everyone had gone. Melissa and I were just
27:17
Speaker 1: I think, picking up like fucking cans from around the
27:20
Speaker 1: auditorium or whatever, and that we got the first moment
27:24
Speaker 1: together where we could just chat without people around. And
27:28
Speaker 1: she goes to me, what on earth was that? And
27:31
Speaker 1: I go, I don't know. She goes, she calls me Bro.
27:37
Speaker 1: She goes, Bro, there's like that was She goes, I
27:42
Speaker 1: can't even explain that. I go, I can't explain that.
27:44
Speaker 1: That wasn't the skill, that wasn't talent, that wasn't Craig's brain,
27:48
Speaker 1: that wasn't Craig the storyteller. And I know some people
27:52
Speaker 1: are going to go, you're a fucking idiot, and I
27:54
Speaker 1: understand you thinking that, but I'm telling you there was
27:57
Speaker 1: something going on that was way bigger than me on
27:59
Speaker 1: that day. I fucking so I would do one of
28:03
Speaker 1: those every day for zero dollars for the rest of
28:06
Speaker 1: my life, to be able to get in that space
28:09
Speaker 1: and do that thing with people, and have that level
28:12
Speaker 1: of connection with a room full of humans where it
28:15
Speaker 1: seems like all the individuality and all the separation and
28:19
Speaker 1: all the apartners melts away. It's like there's just this
28:23
Speaker 1: one breathing soul in the room. Oh fuck, I'm so good,
28:28
Speaker 1: so good. Wow. Have you had that TIF or something
28:32
Speaker 1: like that where you get to that point where you're
28:35
Speaker 1: like you kind of lose yourself a bit?
28:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, I even to some degree in podcast conversations, I
28:42
Speaker 2: feel that can happen where you just kick off and
28:48
Speaker 2: end up in some unexpected place, or take have people
28:53
Speaker 2: arriving at a space where you're sharing something so deep
28:58
Speaker 2: and introspective and vulnerable, and there's just an energy.
29:01
Speaker 1: To it, isn't it? And isn't isn't that Like we
29:05
Speaker 1: shouldn't say this because this is podcast secrets everyone, but
29:09
Speaker 1: some guests it's like, oh fucking hell, I want to
29:13
Speaker 1: punch myself in the face. This is just this forty
29:17
Speaker 1: five minutes feels like two painful hours. Right, you both
29:22
Speaker 1: had Bobby's got his shut up, Bobby's got his own show,
29:26
Speaker 1: so he's But then there are other people where you
29:28
Speaker 1: fall into this vortex and you don't want it to stop.
29:31
Speaker 1: And I'm like, this is this hour and a half
29:34
Speaker 1: and it's normally forty five and I look up it's
29:36
Speaker 1: an hour and a half. I'm like, it's not enough time,
29:39
Speaker 1: And you know, yeah, that is. It is so funny.
29:43
Speaker 1: Obviously time is a constant, but the way that we
29:46
Speaker 1: experience time is a variable. And it's it's so incredible
29:51
Speaker 1: how much that experience can vary.
29:54
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think when we surrender to it, like the
29:58
Speaker 2: thinking part of present and speaking and planning like is
30:02
Speaker 2: so not me. And I've had people give feedback on
30:05
Speaker 2: a particular episode that they have really loved and connected with,
30:10
Speaker 2: and the feedback they give me is around that intuitive
30:14
Speaker 2: nature of the way I will listen and ask a
30:17
Speaker 2: question particular questions and the space I create and I
30:23
Speaker 2: listen to that feedback and I value it so much,
30:26
Speaker 2: but I don't know. I'm like, okay, so that happens sometimes,
30:31
Speaker 2: I don't know how many of the times, and it's
30:33
Speaker 2: really special. But I don't know how to create it
30:37
Speaker 2: or recreate it or teach it. I just have to
30:39
Speaker 2: show up and trust it. And it's it's beautiful, but
30:44
Speaker 2: also I guess a bit frustrating because you can't go, well,
30:46
Speaker 2: if I do this, this and this, I'll always be
30:48
Speaker 2: like that or I can teach people how to be
30:50
Speaker 2: like this.
30:51
Speaker 3: Wow, So you don't know how you do it?
30:54
Speaker 2: No, No, because I don't think of questions. I don't.
31:00
Speaker 1: It's a two piece puzzle, right, you can't. You know,
31:04
Speaker 1: we had a very famous person on this show. I'll
31:07
Speaker 1: tell you both who later. Tif you might know off
31:09
Speaker 1: the top of you had very famous wrote one of
31:11
Speaker 1: the most famous books of the nineteen eighties and nineties.
31:15
Speaker 1: He wrote a couple of versions, super Famous. You would
31:18
Speaker 1: all know his name, Farck and terrible Fark. Want to
31:20
Speaker 1: punch myself in the face. Couldn't couldn't publish it. It
31:24
Speaker 1: was so bad, and it was like, God, bless him.
31:27
Speaker 1: That sounds I'm not trying to be mean, but it
31:29
Speaker 1: was just it was just a clunky, uncomfortable, awkward conversation
31:37
Speaker 1: and you're like, oh, we And I was so excited
31:41
Speaker 1: because I'm like, well, this is this person's got a profile.
31:44
Speaker 1: This we're going to get this is good. But yeah,
31:48
Speaker 1: that's yeah. I think sometimes Bobby, there's just like there's
31:51
Speaker 1: you and another person or person's in that moment. There's
31:55
Speaker 1: a just a chemistry and maybe you can't plan it
31:58
Speaker 1: or orchestrate it.
32:02
Speaker 3: And I think that there's so many variables to that
32:05
Speaker 3: to even try to unpack what creates that chemistry, that
32:09
Speaker 3: resonance between two people. I mean, we could, but when
32:13
Speaker 3: you're on stage and there is there is a resonance
32:16
Speaker 3: there with people, there is there is something being communicated
32:21
Speaker 3: in a different way, but the communication is present. If
32:27
Speaker 3: somebody asked you, like, how do you get into that space,
32:31
Speaker 3: that transcendent moment where Melissa was giving you that feedback
32:36
Speaker 3: like what happened?
32:38
Speaker 1: Yes, what would be your answer? I wish I had
32:42
Speaker 1: a three step kind of I don't really, but I
32:45
Speaker 1: do know that, like for me, there's a fine line
32:48
Speaker 1: between how much I plan and how much I don't plan.
32:51
Speaker 1: If I overplan, I'm generally not good. I've got stories
32:55
Speaker 1: about where I planned like a motherfucker and I was horrible, horrible.
33:00
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have had me on my own podcast, that's
33:02
Speaker 1: how bad I was, right, and then other times where
33:05
Speaker 1: I didn't give it enough thought and I was also horrible.
33:08
Speaker 1: So I think it's funny because the day that this
33:14
Speaker 1: sounds weird, I don't even want to say this, but
33:16
Speaker 1: I'm going to be transparent. The day that that thing happened,
33:19
Speaker 1: I remember that one day I sat in my little
33:23
Speaker 1: car at Deacon and I prayed before I went in.
33:26
Speaker 1: And it wasn't a you know, dear Lord God. You know.
33:30
Speaker 1: It was just like, like, I don't want this to
33:33
Speaker 1: be about me. I want it to be only about them,
33:38
Speaker 1: you know, not my ego, not my brand, not my this,
33:41
Speaker 1: not my that, like I just wanted. I I feel
33:47
Speaker 1: like my intention makes a difference and my presence going
33:52
Speaker 1: in and if I'm all about telling dick jokes and
33:56
Speaker 1: being hilarious and just you know, using my skills and
33:59
Speaker 1: my risma and my experience and my personality, I tend
34:04
Speaker 1: to be worse. I tend to be worse. It's not
34:07
Speaker 1: to say that you shouldn't use those things, but you know,
34:10
Speaker 1: I think there's something much more powerful than all of
34:13
Speaker 1: those things I just spoke of, and it's trying to
34:16
Speaker 1: get into that space or that level of operation.
34:20
Speaker 3: There's got to be something to that, because I feel
34:25
Speaker 3: when I and my audiences were getting the most out
34:31
Speaker 3: of me in my career, I would frequently pray before
34:37
Speaker 3: every session, yeah, the same thing, like get me out
34:41
Speaker 3: of this, please, like remove me and my ego from
34:47
Speaker 3: this presentation. So I don't go in there as if
34:51
Speaker 3: there's a skill that I've developed that is the most
34:54
Speaker 3: important influential factor in what people get from this.
34:59
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think you can even do the same thing
35:02
Speaker 1: when you're just going into a meeting. I've done it
35:05
Speaker 1: when I'm going to meet somebody one on one and
35:07
Speaker 1: I get a heads up that this could be difficult
35:10
Speaker 1: and complicated and not an easy hour, where I kind of,
35:15
Speaker 1: you know, I just want to make sure that whatever
35:19
Speaker 1: energy that I bring into that moment, that it is
35:23
Speaker 1: the best energy for them and for the situation. And yeah,
35:29
Speaker 1: if I just have that little moment for me, it's
35:31
Speaker 1: about one minute, if that thirty seconds, one minute where
35:37
Speaker 1: I just take a breath like I just did, and
35:39
Speaker 1: just get out of my own bullshit and realize that
35:42
Speaker 1: I'm not great. I'm just lucky. Like there's nothing about
35:46
Speaker 1: me that's great. And people go, don't say that. I'm like,
35:49
Speaker 1: there isn't there really isn't. You know. I can try
35:52
Speaker 1: hard and work hard and doesn't mean I'm a bad human,
35:54
Speaker 1: but you know, I am just super duper fortunate that
35:58
Speaker 1: I was born in a great country, a great time.
36:00
Speaker 1: I had great friends, I lived in a great environment,
36:03
Speaker 1: some of the things that I've done over the time
36:05
Speaker 1: have worked out well, some not. But you know, it's
36:08
Speaker 1: like I've literally for sixty years had almost fucking no
36:12
Speaker 1: adversity compared to what a lot of people have.
36:15
Speaker 3: So I feel like if you don't have that balance perspective,
36:19
Speaker 3: Like earlier, I was being a little bit facetious around
36:22
Speaker 3: the Thanksgiving holiday here, and it's not a lot of
36:27
Speaker 3: people hear me say that and like, oh, that's so negative,
36:29
Speaker 3: Like you cannot say anything negative about you or a
36:33
Speaker 3: holiday or port your heritage. And I think as a
36:37
Speaker 3: culture and as individuals, taking a sobering, honest look at yourself, yeah,
36:46
Speaker 3: it is in no way degrading to yourself. I think
36:50
Speaker 3: it's a necessary aspect of self care, like looking at
36:55
Speaker 3: what are the things that I do well, what are
36:57
Speaker 3: the times where my efforts, my decisions, intentions facilitated something
37:04
Speaker 3: pretty good?
37:05
Speaker 1: And when have.
37:07
Speaker 3: There been times when it's been the opposite? Because you
37:11
Speaker 3: can learn from both. And then to go back to
37:15
Speaker 3: your statement, acknowledging hey, I am lucky does not mean
37:20
Speaker 3: that what you're doing is insignificant. It's no, there have
37:25
Speaker 3: been a series of circumstances that given everything else being
37:30
Speaker 3: equal with all my work, ethic, talent and skills and mindset.
37:34
Speaker 1: I want to I still want to.
37:35
Speaker 3: Have gotten to do what I'm doing right now. It
37:37
Speaker 3: wouldn't have matters. It doesn't take anything away from us
37:43
Speaker 3: to give credit to others and to give credit to
37:47
Speaker 3: circumstances and to and a little bit of self criticism.
37:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I see, Yeah, I totally concur your honor
37:59
Speaker 1: for me is about just on a self awareness. It's
38:03
Speaker 1: not self loathing at all. It's just acknowledging what is Like.
38:08
Speaker 1: I've had conversations Tiff and I had a moment I
38:10
Speaker 1: don't know a long time, well, eight months, I don't fuck,
38:13
Speaker 1: I don't know where we There was about a month
38:15
Speaker 1: where we just didn't get on, right, I mean we
38:19
Speaker 1: it was it was just weird. And then I kind
38:23
Speaker 1: of I was a little bit like, fuck Tiff, fucking Tiff,
38:27
Speaker 1: fucking Tiff is fucking so problematic, right, and then she
38:32
Speaker 1: was probably going harps as a cunt, which is not
38:34
Speaker 1: that far from the truth. So all right, so she's
38:37
Speaker 1: pretty insightful.
38:38
Speaker 3: It's like, stop sending me these texts.
38:40
Speaker 1: Jeez. Yeah, yeah, yeah, just before I'm about to not
38:44
Speaker 1: off to bed ever count anyway, you men, anyway for
38:49
Speaker 1: our one remoting listener, You're welcome. Don't play this to
38:52
Speaker 1: my mum. But like, there was stuff that I needed
38:55
Speaker 1: to just go, ah, so here's what I'm doing wrong.
39:00
Speaker 1: Not like oh yeah, but you didn't mean it, but
39:02
Speaker 1: you know it's like, well maybe maybe not, Like you know,
39:06
Speaker 1: there are just things that I do that don't work.
39:08
Speaker 1: There are you know, there are times when something is
39:12
Speaker 1: problematic and most of the problem is me. There are
39:16
Speaker 1: times when most of the problem isn't me, But there
39:19
Speaker 1: are friendly times, definitely times when it's me. And that's
39:22
Speaker 1: not throwing yourself under a bus or beating yourself up.
39:25
Speaker 1: I think that's just fucking great self awareness. And it's like, well,
39:29
Speaker 1: I need to acknowledge the things that I'm doing badly
39:32
Speaker 1: or poorly so that I can do them better. That
39:35
Speaker 1: doesn't mean I hate me, that doesn't mean I'm a
39:38
Speaker 1: bad human. That means I actually do want to get better.
39:42
Speaker 1: And I can't get better at the things that I
39:44
Speaker 1: won't acknowledge. I'm shit at right. And it's like my
39:49
Speaker 1: old trope that I wheel out, which is everyone wants
39:52
Speaker 1: feedback until you give them feedback, They don't want right
39:55
Speaker 1: because they don't really want feedback unless it's praise. You know,
40:00
Speaker 1: it's a round of applause.
40:01
Speaker 3: Or a pat on the back, and everything that's not
40:04
Speaker 3: consensus and praise is not gaslighting any any type of
40:11
Speaker 3: critical feedback is. I mean it could be that very
40:15
Speaker 3: well could be what's happening, but not always. And if
40:19
Speaker 3: everybody around you is gaslighting you constantly, it's not that
40:24
Speaker 3: you're in a manipulative environment. It's maybe that you know
40:28
Speaker 3: you're not willing to face certain aspects of your person
40:32
Speaker 3: because things could never be everybody else all the time.
40:36
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's just like yeah, and they will probably never
40:39
Speaker 1: be you all the time. I like this kind of
40:41
Speaker 1: kind of thinking, an awareness. And again I've spoken about
40:45
Speaker 1: this twenty times, apologies, but it's worth including because it's relevant.
40:49
Speaker 1: But you know, as a young gym instructor and then
40:52
Speaker 1: as a young personal trainer. So I'm on the floor
40:54
Speaker 1: with people and I'm seeing most of my clients three
40:57
Speaker 1: times a week, so you are literally and you've both
41:00
Speaker 1: done this because we have very similar backstories. But where
41:04
Speaker 1: you see old mate three days a week, so three
41:06
Speaker 1: days a week for one for an hour, one on
41:08
Speaker 1: one you and her or you and he are chatting
41:12
Speaker 1: like that's more than I speak to my mum. That's
41:15
Speaker 1: more than I speak to me. You know. It's like,
41:17
Speaker 1: this is where you're having these and sometimes like I
41:20
Speaker 1: had one lady Pauline that I trained for sixteen years
41:24
Speaker 1: six hours a week, so it's six hours a week
41:27
Speaker 1: of one on one conversation interaction on and knew her
41:30
Speaker 1: incredibly well. Right. But my long winded point is when invariably,
41:36
Speaker 1: when I would talk to people about problems that they
41:39
Speaker 1: were having in their life, they never saw themselves as
41:42
Speaker 1: the problem. They always saw themselves as the victim and
41:47
Speaker 1: someone or something else as the cause. Now, sometimes that's
41:51
Speaker 1: going to be true, but it can't be fucking true
41:53
Speaker 1: all the time. And when I would even dare to
41:59
Speaker 1: suggest that there seems to be a lot of these
42:02
Speaker 1: problems on planet you with a lot of different people,
42:05
Speaker 1: and you seem to be the constant, it's like, yeah,
42:10
Speaker 1: that would not go down well at all. Or you know,
42:14
Speaker 1: the amount of times where people would talk about their
42:16
Speaker 1: partner to me and it would invariably be more negative
42:22
Speaker 1: than positive, where they would be commenting on their relationship
42:25
Speaker 1: and him or her and they wouldn't be saying positive things,
42:29
Speaker 1: and people go, oh, that's it's fucking true. In fact,
42:32
Speaker 1: I would say in my case it was eighty to
42:34
Speaker 1: ninety percent unless they're just talking about incidental we went
42:37
Speaker 1: to a barbecue on the weekend. But if they were
42:40
Speaker 1: actually talking about their partner and about their relationship, it
42:44
Speaker 1: was always or it was most of the time more
42:47
Speaker 1: negative than positive. And I just think that just doesn't
42:51
Speaker 1: work in any context for any person. You know, So
42:57
Speaker 1: I don't know, Tiff, it's your turn say something brilliant, amazing,
43:00
Speaker 1: no pressure.
43:01
Speaker 2: I think. I think it's interesting in friendships and relationships
43:05
Speaker 2: how we like like reflecting on you and I and
43:10
Speaker 2: how we avoid this is typical like I've been on
43:13
Speaker 2: in the University of This the last few years of
43:16
Speaker 2: trying to be better at being open and honest in
43:20
Speaker 2: friendships and relationships and say how I feel and say
43:23
Speaker 2: and have conversations. But that idea of rupture and repair,
43:27
Speaker 2: and I think put that into context of the amount
43:29
Speaker 2: of relationships like the ones you're talking about, where people
43:32
Speaker 2: have their person and they've fallen in love and they
43:35
Speaker 2: have them in their life for a whole lot of time,
43:37
Speaker 2: and then there's these friction points, and rather than resolving
43:41
Speaker 2: them with the person, there's something that makes us avoid,
43:45
Speaker 2: Like I would make assumptions, and you would make assumptions
43:49
Speaker 2: about and we have this story about Tips doing this,
43:51
Speaker 2: Harps is doing that, and this is and I make
43:53
Speaker 2: a decision about why you're doing that because I've got
43:56
Speaker 2: all these bullshit triggers and insecurities, so I can a
44:00
Speaker 2: narrative to that, and then it's easier to walk away
44:02
Speaker 2: and prove myself right that everyone's just an asshole at
44:05
Speaker 2: some point. No one's ever going to hang around forever.
44:08
Speaker 2: Yet you have a conversation with me. I hear you,
44:11
Speaker 2: You hear me. We have a think about it, and
44:14
Speaker 2: the friendship has never been stronger. And like want a lesson,
44:17
Speaker 2: But why do you think, in general, so many humans
44:21
Speaker 2: this is why we have counselism and couple's COUNSELORSM why
44:25
Speaker 2: can't we just do that? What stops us?
44:29
Speaker 1: I think, Well, Bobby, well, I think fear and EO
44:32
Speaker 1: and insecurity and we you know it is hard too,
44:37
Speaker 1: It is hard to go, hey, we had this thing
44:39
Speaker 1: and I was mostly the problem. So I'm sorry, you know,
44:42
Speaker 1: and it's like I'm better and better at that over
44:46
Speaker 1: the years, because I've had to do it a lot,
44:49
Speaker 1: you know, where I you know, it's like I know,
44:54
Speaker 1: well ergo in my PhD. It's like it's really been
44:57
Speaker 1: a valuable journey for me to try to understand and
45:00
Speaker 1: what the fuck it is like being around me for
45:03
Speaker 1: other humans, and for some humans being around me is
45:06
Speaker 1: fun and nice and enjoyable and positive, but not for everyone.
45:11
Speaker 1: And I can't just go, oh, they're all pricks. Well, no,
45:17
Speaker 1: it's probably in my interest to try to understand, you know.
45:21
Speaker 1: And that doesn't mean it's always I'm always going to
45:23
Speaker 1: be problematic. But you know, it's like that old chestnut
45:28
Speaker 1: of Craig, you're intimidating, And I'm like, I'm not intimidating.
45:32
Speaker 1: Who fucking said that, you know? And then oh, yeah,
45:35
Speaker 1: that's right, I am intimidating. You know. It's like trying
45:39
Speaker 1: to understand and realize that whatever people's experience of you is,
45:47
Speaker 1: then that is for them, one hundred percent their experience.
45:51
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter that your intention is good because their
45:55
Speaker 1: experience is not your intention. Now that doesn't mean you
45:58
Speaker 1: have yeah, or their experience is not your intention, and
46:02
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that you've got to agree with them,
46:04
Speaker 1: but you need to understand them, you know. And even
46:08
Speaker 1: down to when I talked to my mom last night
46:10
Speaker 1: at her birthday. I was trying to talk about a
46:13
Speaker 1: few medical things about Dad with her, and I'm like thinking, Fuck,
46:18
Speaker 1: how do I say this in a way that won't
46:20
Speaker 1: terrify her but also will absolutely make sense and also
46:26
Speaker 1: weave in a little bit of hope, you know. And
46:29
Speaker 1: so all of this is going through my mind as
46:32
Speaker 1: I'm just trying to download information. You know, how do
46:36
Speaker 1: I make this mary friendly? How do I make this
46:38
Speaker 1: not terrifying? How do I make it accurate? So I'm
46:41
Speaker 1: not just saying bullshit? But and you know, also in
46:46
Speaker 1: the moment, what is this like what I'm saying to
46:50
Speaker 1: my mum? What is this like for her right now?
46:53
Speaker 1: You know?
46:55
Speaker 2: So I think it takes so long to know ourselves
46:59
Speaker 2: as well as we have this emotional reaction, and then
47:02
Speaker 2: we before we have a chance to really explore it,
47:06
Speaker 2: we make a decision on the most logical reason that
47:10
Speaker 2: comforts us as to why it takes place. Oh, I
47:13
Speaker 2: feel this. It's obviously because they're an asshole. They deliberately
47:16
Speaker 2: did that, But we don't explore what about that thing
47:19
Speaker 2: that just happened just made an emotion come up in me?
47:23
Speaker 2: What's the real story about that, what action occurred? And
47:27
Speaker 2: then what in the experience represented that in the moment
47:31
Speaker 2: that just happened, because that's what it was. The case
47:33
Speaker 2: has been the case for me over the years, is going, oh,
47:36
Speaker 2: when people turn up five minutes late, I turn in,
47:40
Speaker 2: I have a huge emotional reaction. What's that all about?
47:44
Speaker 2: Because now I just because it turns me into someone
47:47
Speaker 2: that thinks that nobody cares. And that's because this emotional
47:50
Speaker 2: switch that flips and there's its story, and it's like, well,
47:53
Speaker 2: none of that story is true. But obviously somewhere along
47:56
Speaker 2: the way you have this not matter hurt button, according
48:00
Speaker 2: to doctor Bill just saying that's one of yeah, and
48:04
Speaker 2: that's one of the ones that flips it.
48:08
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. I don't know about you, Bobby, but I
48:11
Speaker 1: always thought I was What pushes my buttons over the
48:18
Speaker 1: years is when people thought I was stupid or not
48:24
Speaker 1: very intelligent or you know whatever. Because I thought I
48:28
Speaker 1: was stupid and I thought I was unintelligent, and so
48:31
Speaker 1: I would, yeah, I would be very different because it's
48:37
Speaker 1: like they would just tell it was really just consolidating
48:39
Speaker 1: and confirming, Yeah, you're right, I am fucking stupid, and
48:43
Speaker 1: yeah I would respond to that way more than you
48:46
Speaker 1: know what they said about my body. Like I was
48:48
Speaker 1: pretty obsessed with my body and my appearance because I
48:51
Speaker 1: was wildly fucking insecure, had all the issues, but I
48:55
Speaker 1: was also insecure about you know, like I people for
49:00
Speaker 1: years make fun of where I grew up. Shout out
49:03
Speaker 1: to Moey, love mey, you know, and and even now
49:10
Speaker 1: you know, not so much, but like do you own
49:12
Speaker 1: anything other than a flannel shirt or a black T
49:14
Speaker 1: shirt or and so that thing of I mean, it's
49:19
Speaker 1: really interesting because on one hand, I have people who
49:21
Speaker 1: have me on a pedestal, which maybe they shouldn't, I
49:25
Speaker 1: don't know. But at the same time, other people who
49:27
Speaker 1: think I'm just a lucky, fucking idiot who's done. Okay,
49:30
Speaker 1: you know what about you, Bobby?
49:35
Speaker 3: You know, earlier you said that these patterns have a
49:38
Speaker 3: lot to do with fear, ego and insecurity, and of course,
49:42
Speaker 3: but I think we're getting into it now a little
49:44
Speaker 3: bit where many people, not everybody, but many people are
49:49
Speaker 3: scared shitless and they don't have anything figured out. I
49:52
Speaker 3: think Where we get our security from is our mental
49:55
Speaker 3: models and these belief systems, and if something can't tr
50:01
Speaker 3: one of those belief systems, it adds to the anxiety
50:06
Speaker 3: of enormous uncertainty. I think that becomes the problem where
50:11
Speaker 3: I am I'm unwilling to examine certain things about myself
50:17
Speaker 3: because the answer can be terrified. Now you just talking about,
50:21
Speaker 3: like why does she get upset when people arrive five
50:24
Speaker 3: minutes late? And punctuality is a very important thing for me. Yes,
50:29
Speaker 3: I've been telling that. I've been reading about the story
50:33
Speaker 3: of ebenez a Scrooge. It's a classic. I've been telling
50:35
Speaker 3: that story lately, or attempting to because it's that season.
50:39
Speaker 3: And when you look at that story, you see a
50:43
Speaker 3: lot of you see a lot of these deeper layers
50:48
Speaker 3: where the Scrooge were introduced to in the beginning of
50:51
Speaker 3: the story. Is not the authentic Scrooge. I mean, we're
50:54
Speaker 3: kind of starting in the middle of the story there,
50:56
Speaker 3: and then, of course, with the ghost of Christmas Past,
50:59
Speaker 3: we go back to the beginning. Scrooge seemed like he
51:02
Speaker 3: was a very sensitive, caring kid who had crippling abandonment
51:07
Speaker 3: issues because his father was horribly neglectful and cruel, punitive,
51:15
Speaker 3: you know.
51:15
Speaker 1: Not a nice guy at all.
51:17
Speaker 3: And every Christmas at boarding school, he had this crippling
51:22
Speaker 3: level of loneliness because all the kids, all of them
51:25
Speaker 3: went back home to be with their families. His dad
51:28
Speaker 3: didn't even think enough of them to spend Christmas with them,
51:32
Speaker 3: which made Christmas particularly painful. And this guy grows. I mean, like, wow,
51:38
Speaker 3: how petty and greedy is this individual. It's like, no,
51:41
Speaker 3: he's terrified. He has this avoidant attachment style that emerged
51:48
Speaker 3: out of a fear of abandonment. And people are they
51:52
Speaker 3: can't be counted on, but numbers can, money can. Yeah,
51:57
Speaker 3: that's quite consistent. And so he develops this personality not
52:04
Speaker 3: out of evil, but out of loneliness. And then he
52:07
Speaker 3: has to defend that. He has to justify why his
52:11
Speaker 3: worldview is correct, why he's uncaring, why he is the
52:15
Speaker 3: way he is. And then you see at the end
52:18
Speaker 3: where it's the readiness to change that takes so long.
52:24
Speaker 3: Change itself is kind of rapid, and you see that
52:28
Speaker 3: with Scrooge. He starts, Yeah, he starts changing his behaviors,
52:33
Speaker 3: and all of a sudden he has all of the
52:35
Speaker 3: things that he's been deprived of all the things that
52:38
Speaker 3: he's probably wanted and the answer wasn't in his story,
52:42
Speaker 3: But we hang on to those stories.
52:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Do you think also that people like
52:50
Speaker 1: talking about beliefs and stories that we all have beliefs
52:54
Speaker 1: and stories that we didn't choose. They're just to buy
52:56
Speaker 1: productive life and experiences and interaction and programming and conditioning
53:03
Speaker 1: and blah blah blah fill in the blank. Do you
53:05
Speaker 1: think that those things, to an extent, those stories and
53:09
Speaker 1: those beliefs and that programming becomes our identity. So that's
53:13
Speaker 1: who we are, that's who we are.
53:15
Speaker 3: And justify that story, don't you.
53:18
Speaker 1: And then when you question my story, you question who
53:21
Speaker 1: I am because my story and my belief is essentially
53:26
Speaker 1: intertwined with my sense of self. So when you attack
53:29
Speaker 1: me for being a vegan or a Christian or a
53:33
Speaker 1: Arsenal United supporter or whatever, you know, then you're attacking
53:40
Speaker 1: my sense of self. And so, you know, it's very
53:43
Speaker 1: hard when you've had beliefs for a lifetime or most
53:47
Speaker 1: of a lifetime, to even consider the fact that maybe
53:51
Speaker 1: that's a flawed belief, or maybe that story is not true,
53:55
Speaker 1: maybe that story is a limitation that's holding me back.
54:00
Speaker 1: Maybe it's kind of true, but not completely. I think
54:02
Speaker 1: that's the you know, the million dollar question is, you know,
54:06
Speaker 1: can are you objective? Are you open minded? And everybody
54:09
Speaker 1: says yes, I am, but the truth is nobody is.
54:13
Speaker 3: So I think that's a deeper layer.
54:15
Speaker 1: True.
54:16
Speaker 3: You have this need for certainty and these narratives, these
54:20
Speaker 3: mental models are where you believe you drive the certainty from,
54:24
Speaker 3: or maybe you're not even aware of it, so then
54:27
Speaker 3: you have it's so precarious to challenge these belief systems
54:32
Speaker 3: you have, and then you go deeper and it's like no, no, no, no,
54:36
Speaker 3: these aren't even your beliefs. These are beliefs that have
54:39
Speaker 3: been given to you. So I'm defending beliefs now that
54:44
Speaker 3: are not even my own. That's an interesting dynamic.
54:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, well they almost well they kind of yeah, I
54:52
Speaker 1: know exactly what you're saying, so they'd become you know,
54:54
Speaker 1: it's like you put on someone else's jumper and now
54:59
Speaker 1: you're like, no, this is my jumper. It's like you
55:02
Speaker 1: put on your cousin's jumper or whatever it is. I
55:06
Speaker 1: was going to say Cardigan who wears cardigans, But yeah,
55:08
Speaker 1: it's almost like they get socially by social obs osmosis.
55:13
Speaker 1: These become your beliefs. Now you're thinking, now your story
55:17
Speaker 1: is now just because of proximity to that.
55:20
Speaker 3: For so long, I'd be nothing without this, Jumper, It's
55:24
Speaker 3: not even yours. You're so mostly attached to it, Jumper,
55:30
Speaker 3: I don't even know who I am.
55:32
Speaker 1: Always good to talk, Sunshine. Bobby's podcast is called The
55:37
Speaker 1: Self Help Antidote. You can find him also at Robert
55:43
Speaker 1: Caapuccio dot com. Am I correct with that this is true?
55:47
Speaker 1: And you can find him on LinkedIn and you can
55:50
Speaker 1: find him on most street corners on a Saturday night
55:54
Speaker 1: near his house in some kind of frock usually, and
55:58
Speaker 1: also on Instagram street corners, Oh please, just some street corners.
56:04
Speaker 1: Tiffany and Cook has also a podcast called Roll with
56:07
Speaker 1: the Punches. She can also be found on Instagram Tiffany
56:12
Speaker 1: and Co. She can be found also at her house
56:17
Speaker 1: just with her pets, or the cookie shop or the
56:20
Speaker 1: cookie Shop? Did I miss out anything you too? Is
56:24
Speaker 1: there anything you want to throw in?
56:28
Speaker 3: Had a major falling out over chocolate quantity once?
56:33
Speaker 1: Well, thanks for throwing that in at the end. Did
56:36
Speaker 1: you resolve it?
56:38
Speaker 3: While yeah, I think we're getting on really well. I'm
56:41
Speaker 3: not she probably still hates me.
56:44
Speaker 1: I don't even want to ask. Bobby. We'll say goodbye, Affair,
56:48
Speaker 1: and I'll tell you who that guest was right now, Tiff,
56:51
Speaker 1: thank you, Bobby, thank you,