Latest / Go Wildly Podcast / Ep. 11 | How To Build a Life As a River Guide -- Even If You Didn't Grow Up Outdoorsy

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Ep. 11 | How To Build a Life As a River Guide -- Even If You Didn't Grow Up Outdoorsy · Go Wildly Podcast

• 0:00
  There's often like a stiff upstream breeze and you're like,
• 0:03
  what the hell? This is terrible.
• 0:06
  Josh Turner and your man. This song are like so tied to
• 0:09
  Bhutan for me. And like, what a strange way.
• 0:13
  And I'm like, Oh my God, that guy's naked and he's
• 0:17
  helicoptering his Weiner. I'm like, and he goes, oh,
• 0:19
  sorry, I don't know you. And he like walks over.
• 0:21
  He's like, I'm Billy. I was like, Oh my God, I was
• 0:23
  like 15 or 16, I guess, and reading the book On the Road by
• 0:27
  Jack Kerouac. Do you know that book?
• 0:31
  Great book. They're not like backpacking,
• 0:33
  but they're like hitchhiking and like exploring and like looking
• 0:38
  or like, you know, moving about the country in like a much
• 0:40
  different way. And I was like, whoa, like
• 0:43
  that's I wanted somehow to do that.
• 0:45
  And pretty terrified of snakes. And I remember a snake coming in
• 0:48
  the bailing hole. I'd.
• 0:50
  Be like out of the water. Yeah, yeah.
• 0:51
  It was like, and they were like, it was like, it was like this
• 0:53
  long. It was like this tiny little
• 0:55
  like Garter snake and I was like waking up and we had slept
• 1:01
  through a Blizzard and we're all, there's three or four of us
• 1:06
  in this and we're all covered in snow.
• 1:09
  Like I'm like laying down like this and there's like a couple
• 1:12
  inches of snow on top. Oh my God, a reformed outside
• 1:15
  cat. I'm a little bit more of an
• 1:17
  inside cat now because I live in a camper.
• 1:21
  But I mean, for a long time it was like I had like a 10 by 12
• 1:26
  platform tree house kind of thing.
• 1:29
  Find a job that I can just like, be outside sharing the outside
• 1:33
  with people. Welcome back to the Go Wildly
• 1:38
  podcast, where we dive head first into stories of those who
• 1:41
  make the outdoors their life, their passion, and their
• 1:43
  playground. Today in episode 11, we're
• 1:45
  hanging out on the banks of the Road River with Michael Hughes,
• 1:48
  career river guide, ultra runner, outdoor enthusiast and
• 1:51
  the operations manager at Northwest Rafting Company.
• 1:54
  Michael didn't grow up in an outdoorsy family, but somewhere
• 1:57
  along the way he traded pavement for paddles and never looked
• 2:00
  back. We get into what life really
• 2:02
  looks like as a river guide on the road, the day-to-day
• 2:05
  managing the iconic guide house in all the rivers.
• 2:08
  NW Rafting company runs from Oregon to far off places like
• 2:11
  Bhutan. You'll hear stories from abroad,
• 2:14
  some insights into the culture in Bhutan, and Michael's advice
• 2:17
  for anyone looking to get into guiding and to say yes to more
• 2:20
  adventure. Also, yes, we know this episode
• 2:23
  is late. It's we're on the rivers, we're
• 2:25
  wrangling friends, chasing the sunlight and somehow we're still
• 2:29
  getting the work done. So even if it's late and even if
• 2:31
  you have a big project, real life happens at the same time
• 2:35
  and you have to live your life too.
• 2:36
  So this is your permission slip to keep going, stay wild and
• 2:39
  also stay consistent. So you can be a little late.
• 2:42
  It's totally cool. So grab your sun hat, crack a
• 2:44
  cold one and let's float into this one.
• 2:47
  It is such a good combo. Let's hit it lately so it's
• 2:54
  extra. Have you seen the I think it's
• 2:59
  just Instagram. This guy he's like a British kid
• 3:02
  or he's a adult, but he's really into like trains and he he has a
• 3:07
  camera mount on his like on his head and it like gives this like
• 3:11
  super goofy perspective and he kind of looks like an alien, but
• 3:14
  he gets like he. Like he like.
• 3:16
  Introduces all these like super random trains like oh here comes
• 3:19
  this like DX12 diesel like it it runs once a week from here to
• 3:24
  here and like it's been running for like 100 years or something
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  and he like they it comes through the station he's like
• 3:29
  yeah and they like toot the horn he's like oh this is all it's
• 3:33
  like it's so fun this come I feel like yeah like I have like
• 3:37
  a camera it's like gonna be like a.
• 3:38
  Weird, I think I have come across that guy.
• 3:40
  He's so enthusiastic about trains.
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  It's like, and you like learn a little bit about trains and
• 3:44
  it's, it's pretty funny. But you learn to like trains
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  because of his enthusiasm. Yeah, I'm like, I know nothing
• 3:50
  about trains. They're cool.
• 3:51
  But he just gets so excited and the perspective just makes it
• 3:55
  makes it like that much like kind of comedy.
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  Yeah, a little bit like, why are you an alien?
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  Is it like fisheye? It's.
• 4:01
  Like fisheye. Yeah.
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  So it's like it kind of looks like Sid the Sloth from the.
• 4:08
  Ice Age. From the Ice Age movies a little
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  bit. Yeah.
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  That's cool. Yeah, that's kind of funny.
• 4:13
  I'm going to segue just right away into like, is this water
• 4:17
  bottle your piece of gear that you bring everywhere because you
• 4:20
  didn't bring anything, but you brought this and some Oreos?
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  This is one of them. Yeah, what is what goes
• 4:26
  everywhere with it so. I'd say this is this is my
• 4:28
  summer water bottle summer. It's like most of the time you
• 4:32
  don't need 64 ounces of ice cold water, but when it's hot and
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  it's summer, I definitely will drink like two of these every
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  day. And on the river, I love the cap
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  and the cap. This is a fresh cap.
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  I'm pretty excited about it. You get a new cap every season.
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  No, I hadn't gotten any. This is probably like 10 years,
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  like 7 or 8 years old maybe. I had the same cap, but as you
• 4:55
  use them and abuse them, this part gets like really wobbly and
• 4:58
  it gets like near impossible to drink out of.
• 5:00
  And you're like, oh, it's like right here.
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  Yeah, cap Teva right here. And you have to be like putting
• 5:04
  pressure on it in like One Direction.
• 5:06
  Then it works great. But they don't make this cap
• 5:08
  anymore. Oh.
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  Where did you find it? Because I have the same setup.
• 5:13
  OK, I'll have to get on there. They still make a straw lid, but
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  it has like a a handle that's like this and.
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  You liked it old school. Well, because you can hold it
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  like this and drink it, you know, you're in the car, you're
• 5:27
  like you're on the river quick, you can grab it.
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  The other one, it's like a little like purse and it makes
• 5:32
  it really hard to. Drink.
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  You can't work the angle, the dangle doesn't.
• 5:36
  It's more like this, but. Yeah, but it flops around and it
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  moves. And so it's like, this is just a
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  much easier thing to grab and drink out of.
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  And when it's like it's a heavy water bottle, it's like you got
• 5:48
  to be like. Let's what's What's this going
• 5:51
  on? So then so then this is the
• 5:52
  second part of of it is the mini, the mini Cam strap.
• 5:59
  I like it. The it's narrower than usual,
• 6:01
  yeah. Yeah, so it's like a mini Cam
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  strap. Regular normal Cam straps are
• 6:05
  like inch inch and a half wide. That's like this is half an inch
• 6:08
  3/4 inch 3. Quarters or half inch, you can't
• 6:10
  remember what they call it maybe 5/8 or something, but one of
• 6:14
  our. Guys, what brand is this?
• 6:16
  Is this Cam? So no, you have to.
• 6:18
  Well NRS makes 1 now a couple of a couple of like strap companies
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  make them but this came from I believe Strapworks out of
• 6:27
  Eugene. They make straps.
• 6:29
  I like that setup, Yeah. I feel like maybe I would like
• 6:32
  my bottle more if it had more of that.
• 6:34
  So this is like a really easy way to carry it, yeah.
• 6:36
  Or you can strap it into something, right?
• 6:38
  Or if you need it's like a a makeshift weapon if.
• 6:43
  You need to, like, speed a bear down.
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  What's up? Yeah.
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  So a guy can. Loosen it and have it as a loop.
• 6:50
  Yeah, it can be a loop. It can be a loop.
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  That's how I had it for a long time and would carry it like
• 6:54
  that. Yeah, that seems like I would
• 6:56
  enjoy that. Yeah, that's not bad, but I
• 6:59
  found that I just I really liked actually having it long for some
• 7:02
  reason cuz I think you can like kind of loop it but.
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  And they can get a good little wrist workout.
• 7:07
  Yeah, kind of. Yeah.
• 7:09
  Wrist strength, yeah. What?
• 7:10
  Were we talking about flexing your 32 ounce a drink the other
• 7:13
  day? Shooting guns.
• 7:14
  Shooting guns. Yeah, being able to withstand
• 7:17
  free coil and yeah. Yeah, this would be a good tool
• 7:20
  for that. Yeah, just do do wrist curls
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  with your 32 ounce water bottle. 64 oz water bottle.
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  Yeah. I know I need to bust mine out
• 7:28
  for this. Family.
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  I really only use it in the summer and like now.
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  Mine's beloved. It has like all my stickers,
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  like layered on it all, like, yeah.
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  And I've been to hell actually recently.
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  This was the Melanzana sticker, was the only one on it until
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  last summer. And I was like, I'm gonna put
• 7:42
  some more stickers on it again. Are you going for any particular
• 7:45
  sticker theme or it's just whatever you can grab?
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  Theme This is a friend's dog cute that he like he made
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  stickers from and this is a friend who passed away sadly,
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  like just over a year ago and his it's cool his mom.
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  He's taken a bunch of his artwork that he did and has made
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  stickers from him and like passes them out six month things
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  and their family mottos hold fast and they're a big better
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  family. And so I was like, I'm going to
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  put that one on. And I thought this American Red
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  Cross Tetris heart was really cool.
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  I enjoy donating blood platelets in the summer because it gives
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  me a chance to go sit in the AC and and help someone.
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  That's lovely. Because it takes three hours.
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  And so last summer there was like, oh, they're Tetris theme.
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  You don't often hear people say they enjoy donating.
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  I know it's not because you're like, you're like sitting there
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  for three hours. You got a needle on both arms.
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  It's one's pulling it out, it goes through machine and then
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  they take the platelets and then they put it back in.
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  So you're sitting like that and you can't like can't move and
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  you just watch TV. That's crazy.
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  You guys decide what you watch. Oh yeah.
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  Yeah, OK. And it's cool you like after you
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  go a couple times they like they know you and they're like, oh,
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  you're still watching, blah, blah, blah.
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  Looks like you're still. Watching Suits you're on.
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  Yeah, yeah, Episode A looks like halfway through, like we'll get
• 9:09
  you queued up. And I'm like, it's, it's
• 9:10
  awesome. This.
• 9:11
  Is wonderful. Like actually I watched in BT a
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  session so I'm on episode 14. Yeah, and for a while, like
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  that's how I started watching the Bear, which I was like, oh,
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  I'm going to watch it. And that was like my blood
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  platelet show. And the last time I went to
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  donate platelets, I went on a different day and the the the
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  ladies that usually take care of me weren't there.
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  And I was like kind of bummed and the TV like they couldn't
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  get Hulu to work and I was like, I have to watch something else.
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  It was like kind of tragic. I was like, so I'm looking
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  forward to going back like next week and finishing the Bear so.
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  How often do you go and donate? Like every like 3 weeks, OK.
• 9:51
  You can done it regular like. Pretty regularly, yeah.
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  Year round. No, not year round because it's
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  like kind of like the closest place in the winter for me is
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  like an hour and a half fish away.
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  So what I do is I because I have to go to Costco to buy trip food
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  stuff. I was like, oh, usually on
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  Tuesdays I put a trip on the river, drive to Costco, stock up
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  on some things, go donate blood, platelets and come home.
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  And that's like my Tuesday every couple weeks.
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  And so it works out really well. Where you at routine?
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  Where you at in the winter when you're too far?
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  In White Salmon. OK, cool.
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  Yeah, well. So you've voted the White Salmon
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  like right at the put in right by BZ like the like walk your
• 10:36
  raft down to the river, like right down there.
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  I can walk to that. I like put my kayaking stuff on
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  like walk to put in legit. Yeah, it's pretty cool.
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  Or I like go, I like scramble down this like Cliff and get on
• 10:49
  the river from our backyard. I that place, that whole area is
• 10:53
  beautiful. Yeah.
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  I think we floated in like February or January.
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  Yeah. And I didn't have any dry or wet
• 11:00
  suit. Yeah, I just fucking.
• 11:01
  Rod on it, that's. Cold, cold.
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  I was so cold. I'm going to I remember tomorrow
• 11:07
  and I'm bringing my dry suit just cuz.
• 11:08
  I don't want to be me. And we were, you know, I don't
• 11:11
  know, we had like, we were like artuing or whatever.
• 11:14
  Yeah, but that's cold. Like even if you go in like the
• 11:16
  heat of August, that's cold. I was freezing.
• 11:19
  I think I had these tacos on with socks though.
• 11:22
  Yeah, yeah, like some wool socks.
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  Yeah. It was rough.
• 11:26
  A snowboarding helmet. Yeah.
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  Cuz I didn't have, I think we borrowed it from Zach or
• 11:30
  something cuz I didn't have any gear.
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  It was just like a last minute thing.
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  I was up there and we were like let's go do this.
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  And I'm like, I have nothing, whatever.
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  Let's just like we'll borrow a bunch of random ass shit and
• 11:42
  like, you only live once, so just do it.
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  And I was like, yeah, so we did. And it was great.
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  It was one of the most memorable.
• 11:48
  That's awesome rafting experiences.
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  It's funny, I was talking to Mark Zoeller, who owns Zoeller
• 11:54
  Rafting up there. He's he's my neighbor.
• 11:57
  And he was telling the story about how when his dad started,
• 12:02
  I'd probably get in this a little wrong, but when his dad
• 12:04
  started rafting and taking people down the river, they
• 12:08
  would put in there BZ and then they'd raft down to Hughes them
• 12:13
  where they he had his dad had set up a horse through hot tub.
• 12:17
  And so the people, the people would then get in and warm up
• 12:21
  because they didn't have wet suits.
• 12:22
  They didn't have anything. They just like you just wore
• 12:24
  what you had. Yeah, like a lot of fleece, I
• 12:26
  think he said. So they'd like put them in to
• 12:31
  put them into the hot tub to warm them up while they like
• 12:33
  loaded the boats and like then took them back to the top.
• 12:37
  And people like people would like take their PFD off and like
• 12:41
  hand it to the next group of people and they'd take more
• 12:43
  people down. That's.
• 12:45
  Legit that's. What a funny, funny story.
• 12:49
  Like, Oh well, here you're cold goat in the horse drop.
• 12:52
  Yeah, yeah, that sounds wonderful.
• 12:53
  I. Do.
• 12:54
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, if I would.
• 12:55
  Be like, if I was told that you're gonna do a cold river
• 12:57
  trip, but there will be hot water at the end.
• 12:59
  Yeah, yeah, I can do that. Yeah, something to look forward
• 13:02
  to. That like mine trickery almost.
• 13:04
  You're like, no, this is awesome.
• 13:06
  That'll be better. That would be better.
• 13:08
  Than telling me there's gonna be like, well obviously I don't
• 13:11
  drink so they're gonna be a cooler of cold beer at the end.
• 13:14
  Yeah, you know, give. Me.
• 13:15
  A tub of hot water. Yeah, better than dry clothes.
• 13:19
  Even Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. Yeah.
• 13:21
  Some hot water. Be in the toasty warmness.
• 13:24
  Awesome. I have a question on those
• 13:26
  sandals. What are those those bedrocks?
• 13:29
  Bedrock. Yeah, those are really cool.
• 13:34
  Yeah, I think I like Choco's better.
• 13:36
  OK, OK. Let's have a Choco versus
• 13:37
  Bedrock discussion. This is this is the reason it's
• 13:40
  hard for both of you to see, but.
• 13:43
  That's too much like. Right here.
• 13:45
  If there was another strap that went like that, they would be
• 13:49
  equal to those. So that's maybe more casual,
• 13:54
  this is, yeah. This is my casual sandal.
• 13:56
  Not like I'm gonna go trek. Yeah, these are.
• 13:59
  I've been wearing these hiking, Yeah.
• 14:01
  Because they're. Yeah.
• 14:02
  Good enough. Good enough?
• 14:03
  All of mine are broken right now and sadly Choco was like oh
• 14:09
  they're the foot bed is too broken, we won't repair them.
• 14:14
  So you have to reply. So you're like you're broken in.
• 14:18
  I actually I emailed the different shoe repair company.
• 14:21
  Oh, cool. This like this people in
• 14:24
  Minnesota. And I was like, hey, do you
• 14:25
  think you can repair this? And he's like, yeah, we can give
• 14:26
  it a try. Cool.
• 14:27
  So and all it is, it's just like this strap right here on all of
• 14:31
  my Chacos always breaks. Yeah.
• 14:32
  Do you know a there's kind of like a gear repair gal in Gold
• 14:39
  Hill? Oh, really?
• 14:40
  Oh, Tonya. Tonya.
• 14:42
  Yeah. Tonya, yeah, she's done a few of
• 14:44
  our like bike centered gear repairs and she's done a great
• 14:49
  job. Like the Boa on stuff.
• 14:50
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like she's rewired them and then
• 14:53
  like she has this like plastic, liquid plastic that she can
• 14:57
  like, I don't know so. I don't know if she does shoes
• 15:01
  though. Yeah, it's mostly no.
• 15:02
  She repaired shoes. She repaired.
• 15:05
  She's done a bunch of bike boa bike weird rips and like stuff.
• 15:12
  She's done our paddle boards. We had we randomly last year was
• 15:16
  last year. Yeah, last year we had a bunch
• 15:18
  of because we have like a fleet of paddle boards at the bike
• 15:21
  shop for rentals because we also love that as well.
• 15:24
  And it's mostly just our people that like know us know we have
• 15:28
  them and we will like rent them or to their friends when coming
• 15:30
  to town. Anyway, we had some of them blow
• 15:34
  up on us this year. Like they like the reader on our
• 15:38
  pressure gauge got all funky and they just maybe the heat and
• 15:41
  where we were, we were up in Bend, so higher elevation.
• 15:44
  It was just reading wrong. And Boo, Boo, we had two blowing
• 15:47
  the same day and it was so fucking depressing because like
• 15:50
  those things are we buy decent ones.
• 15:52
  Yeah, they're like $700. Yeah, and it's hard because of
• 15:56
  how they're made depending on where they break, like the C and
• 16:01
  like the the drop stitch stuff is like, like not everywhere
• 16:03
  does that. Yeah.
• 16:04
  And it's like hard to repair. That's cool.
• 16:06
  I didn't think about Tanya repairing tacos.
• 16:08
  I don't think she could have could repair the ones that blew
• 16:12
  up, but she did repair. We had a fin, the fin bed in the
• 16:18
  paddle board. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 16:19
  Ripped and she was able to repair the fin plastic bed that
• 16:23
  like beds in. So it's really kind of cool.
• 16:25
  She did some funky stuff. Yeah.
• 16:27
  Anyway, she's. A funky gal.
• 16:28
  Yeah. Yeah, I went to the kayak one
• 16:32
  day, I think it was last year. No, it must have been two years
• 16:34
  ago and she was on a river board.
• 16:36
  That's her. That's her mode of
• 16:38
  transportation on the river as a river board.
• 16:40
  Yeah, I look, she just got like AI think it was like a
• 16:44
  motorcycle home and had this funny shield that came down and
• 16:47
  she was like, how is the first time?
• 16:48
  I'm trying it out. How's it?
• 16:50
  It's so funny. To just protect your.
• 16:52
  Face and and like splash of the water.
• 16:54
  No, it didn't seem unsafe at all.
• 16:56
  But it was like to like, so she could like keep her eyes open I
• 16:58
  think a little bit more yeah. It was just like a plastic like
• 17:01
  shield that dropped down. That's so cool.
• 17:04
  Because the river board, you're on it on your stomach.
• 17:06
  Yeah, yeah. Because it's like a boogie
• 17:07
  board. Yeah, OK.
• 17:08
  With handles. With handles what and then you
• 17:10
  wear, I think most people wear like little flippers to like
• 17:13
  kick. To get us OK, yeah.
• 17:16
  And really legit ones will have also like a slot for your knees,
• 17:19
  so you can pull your knees up onto the board when you're going
• 17:21
  through like shallow rocky water and then you just kick your legs
• 17:24
  back out and you're cruising again.
• 17:27
  Cool. That's kind of an interesting.
• 17:28
  Yeah, it might be very often. You don't seem very often.
• 17:31
  I saw a guy at Rainy Falls like he'd, he'd went off Rainy Falls
• 17:35
  and he like, cuz it's kind of like this like little like bump
• 17:38
  that you kind of go and he like launched off of it and like made
• 17:41
  it past somehow made it past. Like all the like the whole of
• 17:44
  Rainy Falls. He's like, I don't know how I
• 17:46
  did it. He's like, I'd probably, I'm not
• 17:47
  gonna do it again. Yeah.
• 17:49
  But it was, yeah, he like flew. It was really cool.
• 17:52
  He just had enough momentum going and he caught everything.
• 17:55
  He just rainy falls. Yeah, like on his Little River.
• 17:58
  Board I just saw a video of someone going through radio on a
• 18:03
  inner tube and I was like that looks actually really fun
• 18:07
  that's. Surprisingly common, yeah.
• 18:09
  And I've never been down the main shoot or whatever on
• 18:14
  anything. So I don't.
• 18:15
  I have. No, I don't know.
• 18:17
  But like, it seemed cool. I really love running the river
• 18:20
  in a tube. Yeah.
• 18:22
  It's just, like, so exhilarating.
• 18:23
  Yeah. But little sketch.
• 18:25
  Yeah. At times it's a little low in
• 18:27
  the water for me. Yeah, yeah.
• 18:28
  I. Like in the water.
• 18:30
  To be sitting up a little high and not be constantly wet.
• 18:33
  Yeah, yeah. I mean, I I love water.
• 18:35
  I love being in water, but if I'm rafting I want to be in a
• 18:38
  raft. Yeah, totally.
• 18:40
  Yeah, I hear you. Well, shall we get rolling on
• 18:42
  like chatting about your upbringing and kind of like how
• 18:48
  your childhood was and how that, you know, just that story that
• 18:52
  kind of flows you into your adulthood and career and.
• 18:55
  Who you are, where you came from, Why are you here?
• 18:57
  What's the meaning of your life? Let's do it.
• 18:59
  Yes, all of the above. Well, I grew up in southeastern
• 19:03
  Minnesota, which if those that know Minnesota, the land of
• 19:07
  10,000 lakes. If you didn't know that, now you
• 19:11
  do. How many lakes were you around?
• 19:14
  Here's the tragic part SE Minnesota was scoured by the
• 19:21
  glaciers that receded in North America a long, long time back
• 19:26
  ago. And so we have like really well
• 19:29
  draining fertile soil, great for agriculture, not for lakes.
• 19:34
  So I grew up going to a lake and like spending a lot of time on
• 19:38
  the water and stuff, but there's not a lake close by at all.
• 19:41
  Wherever else you're like, oh, there's seven lakes right there.
• 19:45
  Like it's like Minnesota. There's not a lot of lakes or
• 19:48
  not in southeast Minnesota, not a lot.
• 19:51
  But like the Mississippi River is close.
• 19:53
  We go there every so often, but I didn't really come from an
• 19:56
  outdoors family like. We've been looking for one of
• 20:01
  you. Yes.
• 20:01
  Yes, and not like we're. Like we talked about this last
• 20:04
  night of like we want to get somebody who didn't have an
• 20:07
  outdoor upbringing found it later in life and it has changed
• 20:11
  their life because most people we've talked to so far, like
• 20:14
  they found it pretty early on and continued it so.
• 20:17
  I feel like I'm. Like, Oh yeah, I feel.
• 20:19
  Like I'd light outdoor. Like we'd go like camping would
• 20:23
  be like once a year, my mom's sister, they'd have like a big
• 20:27
  fan reunion at a lake cabin and we'd set up a tent in the front
• 20:31
  yard essentially. That was the most camping
• 20:34
  because we had tried camping a few times at like a State Park
• 20:40
  or something. And every time we'd go like it
• 20:43
  would horrendous storm wind and they'd be like, oh, there's a
• 20:47
  tornado warning. Like, oh, of course, like we're
• 20:50
  camping. We're going to like, it's going
• 20:52
  to be terrible. And so we only went like a
• 20:56
  little bit, but yeah, like we'd like never had gone backpacking
• 21:02
  or we didn't every once in a while we'd go like maybe hiking
• 21:07
  maybe, but we were more like like I spent a lot of time
• 21:12
  fishing and and doing like doing outside stuff, but like not, not
• 21:18
  a ton a week. Like I go water skiing and
• 21:21
  tubing behind the boat and that sort of thing.
• 21:25
  But I don't think outside of that, I don't think I've ever
• 21:29
  seen my dad camp. My mom's been on a couple Rd.
• 21:32
  trips and up until I took her on her first road trip like 12 or
• 21:37
  15 years ago, I don't think I'd ever seen her like jump into a
• 21:42
  body of water and let go above her head and like have her like
• 21:45
  head wet. And I remember she jumped off
• 21:47
  the rocket, Florida Dell. And I was like, whoa, that's
• 21:50
  crazy. Yeah.
• 21:51
  Mom. Like, she always would take me
• 21:52
  to the pool. Like, we went to the swimming
• 21:54
  pool all the time, like, growing up.
• 21:56
  And I, like, remember her, like, teaching me how to swim, like,
• 21:58
  standing in there. And I'd, like, jump in, swim to
• 21:59
  her. And then she'd like, you know,
• 22:01
  I'd swim back. But I never remember her, like,
• 22:03
  going swimming until then. And so, yeah, I didn't have like
• 22:06
  super outdoorsy family. What did they do?
• 22:11
  I don't really like I, I don't know, like, yeah, my, my mom's a
• 22:17
  teacher, but I remember like being a little kid, she like was
• 22:20
  in school to be a teacher and then she was a teacher.
• 22:26
  And for a bunch of my childhood, my dad was like a long haul
• 22:29
  truck driver. And then he did some like
• 22:33
  financial planning stuff and, and now he drives truck again
• 22:38
  for, for Walmart. Like we'd go like, like I said,
• 22:41
  like we'd go fishing and stuff. And I'd say probably like the
• 22:44
  biggest like hobby that my parents had was my dad was like,
• 22:49
  really into like classic cars. And so we'd go to like a lot of
• 22:52
  car shows as a kid and like to like drag race stuff.
• 22:56
  And like every so often we'd go to like there's close to where I
• 22:58
  grew up. There's like a like a dirt track
• 23:00
  for like car races and stuff. We'd do that a little bit, but
• 23:03
  other than that, like I, I don't, I don't really think they
• 23:07
  have hobbies. Like, I don't really know.
• 23:09
  I mean, I think like when I mean, you have kids, like your
• 23:12
  kids are kind of your hobby and like your family is your hobby
• 23:15
  sort of. And so I think that that was
• 23:17
  kind of like more like what they did.
• 23:19
  Like we are like I was, you know, my sister and I were in
• 23:23
  like a lot of activities and. Do you just have a sister?
• 23:27
  Just a sister. Yeah.
• 23:28
  And then I remember, like, as a kid, like she was in dance
• 23:31
  class. And so like, we, you know, she'd
• 23:33
  be doing that and then my dad would be gone, you know, most of
• 23:38
  the week. So yeah, I don't like that.
• 23:41
  Feel like they don't have hobbies.
• 23:42
  My mom likes to garden, I guess, like, that's a hobby.
• 23:44
  But I feel like I don't have kids and you don't have kids.
• 23:49
  It's like, like, oh, my hobbies are rafting, kayaking, hiking,
• 23:53
  trail running. And I do those things, you know,
• 23:56
  a couple times a week all year round.
• 23:59
  Like it's just like different, I think, you know?
• 24:02
  I can definitely see that. Yeah, sometimes you get too
• 24:06
  sucked into your kids. Not necessarily like family,
• 24:09
  like just like the kids and the routine and the chipping away at
• 24:13
  like just time. Yeah, and making sure they're
• 24:16
  busy and engaged and active. And that's where I feel like
• 24:19
  some families may fall apart is that they don't have any.
• 24:24
  Like they're so hyper focused in on this daily grind of like kids
• 24:29
  and life and eat, you know, dinners and did a lot of
• 24:33
  activities that they're not doing any extracurriculars with
• 24:36
  their kids to like create that like deeper bond that being
• 24:42
  outside or being any. Yeah, yeah.
• 24:44
  So that are motivated by the parents like the kid may be
• 24:47
  playing soccer and so mom and or dad is at soccer practice.
• 24:52
  Maybe they're reading a book and not watching, But otherwise like
• 24:55
  their activities revolve around the activity of the kid versus
• 24:59
  mom is gonna go play soccer. Yeah.
• 25:01
  And kid is gonna come watch or come and play a.
• 25:05
  Lot I we, I feel like we have a pretty good balance of like we
• 25:09
  bike a lot. Well, at least Sean does.
• 25:13
  I'm kind of in this like building mode right now.
• 25:15
  But regardless, we bike a lot and it's like the kids are going
• 25:19
  biking with us. We're going biking, we're going
• 25:21
  mountain biking today. We're gonna go to the river and
• 25:24
  paddle board. We're gonna go do whatever.
• 25:26
  So it's like we're a little bit more bringing them into our
• 25:29
  world, not necessarily us going into their world and hyper
• 25:32
  fixating. Yeah.
• 25:33
  And you're creating hobbies that they can enjoy later in life.
• 25:38
  That kind of thing. Hopefully.
• 25:39
  Yeah, I'm really, yeah. Yeah, I was listening to this
• 25:41
  another podcast influential this family that like does these like
• 25:47
  big long bike tours cool. And they're like, Oh yeah, you
• 25:50
  know, like for years and years our kids like rode in the bikes
• 25:54
  in a bike seat or whatever. And you know, we'd go on a like
• 25:57
  3 week bike trip and then like slowly they would have like a
• 26:01
  pull behind and then they'd be. And he's like, now they're
• 26:03
  adults and like we all just go ride our bikes for a couple
• 26:05
  weeks when we can. And I was like, Oh yeah, that's
• 26:09
  they've created their hobby into their kids hobby and now they
• 26:13
  can like do their hobby together.
• 26:15
  Yeah, they've treated it like this is what we do.
• 26:17
  Yeah, there's, you don't know anything different.
• 26:19
  And those kids probably grew up being like, well, don't all
• 26:21
  don't all families go on? Yeah, you don't.
• 26:24
  This is weird. Exactly.
• 26:26
  OK, well we love it, so that's what we do.
• 26:30
  Yeah, I try to have a pretty good balance of that.
• 26:32
  Interesting. Yeah.
• 26:33
  Yeah, so maybe we just didn't, you know, we didn't really go
• 26:36
  camping or like, I didn't even know that rafting was a thing
• 26:40
  really. You could do that much.
• 26:43
  I guess. Like, remember the first rafting
• 26:46
  trip that we did go on, I was probably like 10 or 12,
• 26:52
  something like that somewhere in Colorado.
• 26:56
  Still unsure on that. And because my aunt and uncle
• 27:02
  lived in Colorado, so we were there in the in the summer and
• 27:04
  we like did a day trip of rafting.
• 27:06
  It was probably, you know, like all class one and two.
• 27:08
  And I remember doing, Oh, this is like, this is pretty fun.
• 27:12
  Also, like core memory of that is I'm pretty terrified of
• 27:15
  snakes. And I remember a snake coming in
• 27:17
  the bailing hole. I'd be like.
• 27:19
  Out of the. Water.
• 27:20
  Yeah, yeah, it was like, and they were like, it was like,
• 27:22
  like this long. It was like this tiny little
• 27:24
  like Garter snake and I was like.
• 27:28
  That was the day you learned that all snakes can swim.
• 27:29
  Yeah, yeah, it was. And Fast forward to the first
• 27:35
  trip that my mom ever came rafting on.
• 27:37
  We stopped at Zane Gray's cabin and we're getting back in the
• 27:39
  rafts. And I like she's getting in the
• 27:41
  boat and she goes and there was a snake that had crawled into
• 27:44
  the bailing hole, the raft. Right there.
• 27:46
  It was kind of funny. Yeah, it was pretty funny.
• 27:48
  And I haven't had that many snakes like come into the boat
• 27:51
  other other than, you know, those like 2 times.
• 27:53
  So it was like, you know, it's a funny, a funny thought.
• 27:58
  Too funny little string theory there.
• 28:00
  Like that connective? Your first time and her first
• 28:03
  time there's. Like snakes in the bailing
• 28:05
  holes. Like should have brought a
• 28:06
  bucket boat I guess. But.
• 28:09
  That's pretty cool. Snakes on a boat.
• 28:11
  Exactly. Snakes on a boat.
• 28:12
  Exactly. Not a plane, a boat.
• 28:15
  A real thing that could actually happen.
• 28:16
  Actually, yeah. And I've heard stories of people
• 28:18
  being like, Oh yeah, I've been like, I've gotten too close into
• 28:21
  some, like, low hanging trees. Next thing you know, there's
• 28:23
  like a snake like on my lap because it was like in the tree
• 28:26
  and I like, brushed the tree and it fell on my lap and I'm like,
• 28:29
  stay away from the trees, Yeah. You still have the fear of
• 28:31
  space. Yeah, like, it's pretty.
• 28:33
  That's it's like pretty real. Yeah.
• 28:37
  I, I've like, learned to deal with it like a little, like way
• 28:39
  more. I mean, I live outside and so if
• 28:44
  I see one, I'll still be like, like, I'll, you know, shriek a
• 28:47
  little bit and probably like high step and slightly run away,
• 28:51
  but I'll be like, OK, I can go look at it from afar or
• 28:53
  whatever. It's not here to hurt me.
• 28:55
  It's not here, probably not here to hurt me.
• 28:58
  Unless it's a rattle. Tonight, it's like, it's like,
• 29:00
  probably like, you know, a foot long.
• 29:02
  It's like gonna be OK. Yeah, it's gonna be OK But I do
• 29:05
  have like, you know, living outside for a long time.
• 29:09
  There's like a fear, like, oh, there could be a snake in my
• 29:11
  bed. Could.
• 29:13
  Never had it happen luckily but. Well, knock on the lid on that
• 29:16
  one. Gee, yeah.
• 29:17
  What does Living outside look like for you?
• 29:21
  You're not like, Yeah, yeah, just sleeping in the grass.
• 29:24
  Not quite. And I I'm like AI think I'm a
• 29:28
  reformed outside cat. I'm a little bit more of an
• 29:32
  inside cat now because I live in a camper.
• 29:35
  OK, but I mean for a long time it was like I had like a 10 by
• 29:40
  12 platform treehouse kind of thing and just like slept on a
• 29:45
  Paco pad with a tarp over my head cuz I mean here it's like
• 29:48
  it's warm all summer. It doesn't Rain is.
• 29:50
  That the Is that Ryan Alexander's platform too?
• 29:53
  No, no, but similar, similar. I built mine and then he came in
• 29:57
  and. Built another and.
• 29:59
  Built his and now on the property there's probably like
• 30:03
  15 of them. Wow wow.
• 30:04
  So that's where the guides live on.
• 30:07
  We should go check those out. Yeah, so there's.
• 30:09
  Like a double wide tour, Yeah. There's like 10 guides and it's
• 30:12
  kind of like this hillside where it's like there's just these
• 30:14
  little like platforms built in the trees.
• 30:19
  Yeah. And this is your some.
• 30:20
  This is some. Are living?
• 30:21
  Yeah, some are. Living.
• 30:22
  Some are living outside, yeah. On a platform, yeah.
• 30:26
  On a shared property with Yeah Yeah 10 plus other river guides.
• 30:30
  Yeah, like a communal kitchen and communal bathrooms and a lot
• 30:35
  of like community space and like hanging out and family dinner at
• 30:41
  least once a week and yeah, lots of together time, which is super
• 30:48
  fun. It's not for everyone, but it's
• 30:52
  like a cool way to just like connect with people that you
• 30:58
  like that you work with and just like being outside, like somehow
• 31:03
  is like it's, it's not for everybody, but those that choose
• 31:06
  it are like pretty interesting people.
• 31:08
  Like I know tons of people that have, you know, kind of lived
• 31:12
  outside or worked outside a lot are like terrified of bugs.
• 31:14
  Like that's a pretty normal thing even if you live outside.
• 31:19
  Like I'm still scared of snakes. I spend a lot of time outside,
• 31:23
  but that hasn't like deterred me from like going outside.
• 31:26
  Not like oh God, a snake. The benefits of being outside
• 31:29
  outweigh the the rare chance that you're gonna run into a
• 31:33
  snake, Yeah. Yeah, big time.
• 31:36
  Big time doesn't put me back either.
• 31:38
  Yeah, I like being. I'm not thinking about that.
• 31:41
  I mean, yeah, if I see one, I'm gonna be like, Oh yeah, but and
• 31:44
  like, that's gross and whatever. But yeah, it's just, I know that
• 31:49
  I'm. I'm not gonna, I'm mostly scared
• 31:53
  of rattlesnakes, right? Like.
• 31:55
  When I'm out and about, it's very.
• 31:57
  And I feel like I kind of know where they would hang out and
• 32:00
  be. So I just avoid really hot rocky
• 32:02
  areas and keep my ears open for any sort of.
• 32:07
  There was one time down at Merrill, we were trail running
• 32:10
  down past past Merrill where the Canyon is the Canyon is and I
• 32:16
  there's a baby rattlesnake. I literally almost stepped on it
• 32:20
  and it was the closest I ever got.
• 32:22
  And I was like, Oh my God, that was a little bit of a wake up
• 32:25
  call. I didn't go trail running for a
• 32:26
  while afterwards because it really freaked me out.
• 32:29
  And then I was like, do I need to invest in some like, Gators?
• 32:31
  Yeah, yeah. Because like, that's a like, I
• 32:34
  legit almost fucking stepped on that rattlesnake.
• 32:38
  And yeah I considered buying like gear so I can run still and
• 32:42
  feel safe. Yeah, yeah.
• 32:44
  Where I'm stepping. Yeah.
• 32:46
  But I was just. So, but you've come back to it.
• 32:50
  Yeah, we, I ran after I just, it was like, OK, I'm just going to
• 32:54
  be like hyper zoned in. I was like looking and yeah,
• 32:57
  yeah, not paying attention. Yeah.
• 32:59
  When you know, maybe in that you just don't expect it.
• 33:03
  I think that's the thing. You don't necessarily expect it
• 33:06
  and they're blend in so well. Oh yeah, that's their, that's
• 33:10
  their territory. Yeah, yeah, it's.
• 33:11
  Crazy. So it's just one of those things
• 33:13
  where I was like. That's kind of the downside of
• 33:16
  trail running is you have to be watching where you're stepping.
• 33:19
  Yeah, you kind of have to look ahead.
• 33:21
  You could. I mean, you get to a good point
• 33:23
  where like those sort of situations, like you look enough
• 33:28
  ahead, you're like, OK, I know I can go 15 yards and I'm good.
• 33:32
  Nothing's in front of me. But then I got to inspect the
• 33:35
  next 15 yards and you kind of there's a flow, right?
• 33:37
  Or when you're running with people and you're just like you
• 33:40
  go in. Front.
• 33:40
  Yeah, yeah, I'll be the last easy.
• 33:42
  Got it. So yeah, I was climbing one
• 33:45
  time. I remember reaching to like
• 33:48
  stick my hand in the next hole and I don't think it was a
• 33:53
  rattlesnake, but there was like a snake in there.
• 33:56
  Something moved. Something moved.
• 33:58
  And it was like, I was like, I was like, I'm coming down, I'm
• 34:00
  coming down. I don't want to go any farther,
• 34:02
  you know, like. Gross.
• 34:03
  Yeah. It's like, yeah, yeah.
• 34:06
  Just never know. Yeah.
• 34:08
  Oh well. Yeah, I'm OK with snakes.
• 34:10
  They're they're fine. So with your like growing up and
• 34:13
  stuff, when so was that kind of the same through high school and
• 34:17
  stuff too? When did it start to transform
• 34:20
  into being more heavy outside? I'm going to say at some point
• 34:24
  somehow there is somewhere I was like, I really want to like go
• 34:26
  backpacking. I've like I learned about that
• 34:29
  but didn't really have the means to make it happen.
• 34:33
  And like, you know, there wasn't an outdoor club or something.
• 34:37
  And I remember it must have been 9th grade as like 15 or 16, I
• 34:41
  guess in reading the book on the Road by Jack Kerouac.
• 34:45
  Do you know that book? Great book.
• 34:49
  They're not like backpacking, but they're like hitchhiking and
• 34:51
  then like exploring and like looking.
• 34:55
  You're like, you know, moving about the country in like a much
• 34:57
  different way. And I was like, whoa, like
• 34:59
  that's I wanted somehow to do that.
• 35:02
  And like, you know, be or exist in like a different, a different
• 35:07
  way than kind of that like 9 to 5, all this kind of thing.
• 35:13
  Sorry get off I just that are annoying.
• 35:16
  Yeah. No, no, so good.
• 35:17
  Ant break here. This morning, this morning I was
• 35:19
  like, oh, I got to put some diatomaceous earth down around
• 35:22
  my camper. Otherwise I'm have a Ant
• 35:23
  infestation soon. So I feel you.
• 35:26
  Yeah, bad. So like the some reason the Jack
• 35:29
  Kerouac book, like kind of opened opened that in my brain.
• 35:35
  At the same time, I still wanted to like live in a big city and
• 35:38
  like do city life, which I never did.
• 35:42
  There's something cool about a city, too.
• 35:43
  Yeah. And then you have nights like I
• 35:46
  went to college and I studied landscape architecture and they
• 35:51
  have the program I was in. They take a whole semester and
• 35:56
  you like essentially road trip for pretty much the whole
• 35:59
  semester. And it goes like kind of they do
• 36:02
  like different a different route, but they call it the
• 36:04
  Savannah Studio. And the Savannah is where the
• 36:08
  grassland meets the trees. And that's like essentially the
• 36:11
  middle of the country, the middle of the of kind of North
• 36:15
  America. And so we travelled.
• 36:18
  I went to school in Iowa at Iowa State, and we gotten a few
• 36:21
  buses, a few 15 passenger vans and drove up to Winnipeg,
• 36:24
  Canada, and then drove all the way down to Monterrey, Mexico.
• 36:29
  And like, along the way, we spent time in cities and we
• 36:34
  spent time in state parks and regional parks and national
• 36:37
  parks and we did a bunch of camping.
• 36:40
  And we like, just experienced like all this, like everything
• 36:44
  that that that part of the country has to offer.
• 36:47
  And the whole landscape, all of it, like cityscape and
• 36:50
  parkscape. And it was there on a a canoe,
• 36:56
  just a day trip canoeing at a Big Bend National Park.
• 37:01
  Have you been, have you been so cool?
• 37:08
  Like they were like, we like did a canoe trip, like a day trip
• 37:11
  and like went up Santa Elena Canyon and then you like get out
• 37:15
  and hike and then just float back.
• 37:17
  And they're like, yeah, like this is what we do for a living.
• 37:19
  And I was like, whoa, like, that's you can do that.
• 37:22
  I didn't know that epiphany moment.
• 37:25
  Yeah. So that was like when I was
• 37:27
  like, oh, I get a see how to make something more like that
• 37:32
  happen. Wasn't necessarily like river,
• 37:34
  but like, how do I find a job that I can just like be outside
• 37:38
  sharing the outside with people. And so then when I got like
• 37:43
  after doing this like long studio or whatever, I went to
• 37:47
  the outdoor rec program and got a job just like being this.
• 37:52
  You work the gear rental shop and then they do like weekend
• 37:56
  trips and like outdoor workshops like bike repair and outdoor
• 38:00
  cooking and like day trips, day trip canoeing, kayaking on like
• 38:06
  the Skunk River and just all these like, you know, fun
• 38:09
  activities, rock climbing. And then during spring break and
• 38:13
  Thanksgiving break, they do like extended trips.
• 38:15
  And that's where I went back to Big Bend and did a like 7 or 8
• 38:20
  day canoe trip down the lower canyons of the Rio Grande.
• 38:23
  And just like this is the best ever.
• 38:27
  And then gotcha. Back on me and then I learned to
• 38:29
  row on the Green River through there that program and was like,
• 38:35
  cool, how do I do this now like more for a job I had just spent
• 38:40
  a summer in not far from here by Klamath Falls at Lava Beds
• 38:44
  National Monument working with the Youth Conservation Corps
• 38:50
  doing invasive plant management at Lava Beds National Monument.
• 38:53
  Have you been to Lava beds? Have you been to Lava Beds?
• 38:55
  I haven't. That's awesome.
• 38:56
  You should take your kids. It's it's like tiny little park.
• 38:59
  Is that where the that cave is? There's a bunch of caves, OK,
• 39:04
  There's like a cave. There's like a cave loop, OK,
• 39:06
  And you can like drive and like get out and like walk around in
• 39:08
  all these caves and it's it's a really neat little monument.
• 39:11
  We'll. Have to check it out.
• 39:13
  Yeah. I've heard of it for.
• 39:15
  Sure, it's cool, it's pretty cool, but it's kind of like out
• 39:17
  sort of in the middle of nowhere.
• 39:19
  Most cool things are. Yeah.
• 39:20
  Yeah. Yes, yes, yeah.
• 39:22
  It was like after working out there for a summer, I'd like
• 39:24
  been to, I came to Ashland actually for like a weekend or
• 39:29
  whatever and I was like, I think I want to try to like live out
• 39:33
  there and see what that's like. And so I found I found a job
• 39:38
  with then echo river trips and. And this is like the late 2000.
• 39:43
  Late 2000, 2009 is when I worked in at Lava Beds, and in 2010 I
• 39:49
  came here and worked for the summer.
• 39:53
  That's when I met you long time ago. 15 years ago, yeah.
• 39:59
  That's how I like found my way out here and then graduated in
• 40:05
  like. It's kind of like 2011.
• 40:07
  It was like not the most robust job market.
• 40:12
  And so a lot of my like, classmates were like, I don't
• 40:14
  have a job. And I was like, cool, I have a
• 40:16
  job for the summer. It was like cool.
• 40:18
  So I came back and like started working just on the river full
• 40:24
  time. And then for a number of years,
• 40:29
  like bounced back and forth between here and Northern
• 40:31
  California in Sonoma, kind of working odd jobs so I could,
• 40:37
  like, support my hobby slash job of raft guiding and being on the
• 40:46
  river and sharing the outside, like sharing the outside with
• 40:50
  people. Like that was what I wanted.
• 40:54
  And this is how it, like could happen, was like through through
• 40:56
  being on the river a lot. Yeah.
• 41:00
  So the winter jobs were just getting you by till you were
• 41:03
  back on the river? Yeah, in the summer.
• 41:05
  Yeah, yeah. So I like I, I made wine a
• 41:08
  couple harvests. I worked in a restaurant.
• 41:13
  I did landscaping, which is like, you know, kind of fun to
• 41:19
  like I was working in these like super fancy houses.
• 41:22
  Like I worked at George Lucas's house.
• 41:25
  George Lucas. George Lucas, Yeah, I saw him
• 41:27
  one day. We're like this, kept playing.
• 41:29
  We're like moving this. He had this, like, big Buddha
• 41:31
  statue in, like, part of his garden.
• 41:33
  And we're like prepping to move it from like from like where
• 41:38
  we're sitting to like over there.
• 41:40
  Where was this? This is in San Anselmo, CA, like
• 41:43
  north of San Francisco. And I remember, so he was like
• 41:48
  out walking around with the project foreman and like two
• 41:53
  other people. And I remember he's like,
• 41:55
  everyone just tries to RIP me off because I have a lot of
• 41:57
  money. I was just like, I don't know
• 41:59
  why this is so funny. Like all we're doing is like
• 42:02
  moving a statue. And he was like grumbling about
• 42:04
  how much it was going to cost him.
• 42:05
  Well. You're not doing it yourself.
• 42:08
  Dude. And it was like, we have to like
• 42:09
  build a like thing for. It's like sitting over there.
• 42:11
  It's kind of funny, yeah. But you were still able to apply
• 42:16
  your your degree. Your degree wasn't for nothing.
• 42:19
  Exactly. You didn't get a degree then
• 42:20
  just go be a river guy. You were.
• 42:22
  Still, you were like, OK. I I paid for this degree, I can
• 42:26
  make some money off of it and I. Remember when I, when I told my
• 42:30
  mom that I was coming back to work out here, she was kind of
• 42:32
  like, oh, but what about like working for the Park Service?
• 42:35
  Like, And I was like, yeah, I think I would need to like, give
• 42:38
  this a try. And for a while, she like, was
• 42:39
  like, like, why are you doing this?
• 42:41
  And then she came on a trip, jumped off the rocket, Florida
• 42:44
  down was like, I get it now. And since then it's like never
• 42:48
  been like, why are you still doing that?
• 42:50
  I mean, it's also been a long time.
• 42:51
  It's like now my career. But yes, getting the chance,
• 42:57
  like show her what I was drawn to and like able to like I was
• 43:03
  able to share my excitement about it with her, changed her
• 43:06
  perspective on a lot of things. And like for years she talked
• 43:10
  about jumping off. She's like, remember when I
• 43:11
  jumped off that rock? She had like a little picture of
• 43:13
  it like on her desk and stuff. And like so it's like really
• 43:17
  changed. Poor moment for her.
• 43:18
  Very core. Yeah, very.
• 43:19
  Common check on that some. Stuff.
• 43:22
  Keep rolling, you're good. That's so cute.
• 43:25
  That's and did that at all change your relationship with
• 43:29
  working on the river, like kind of finally having your mom's
• 43:33
  acceptance and support? For it, I think it just like
• 43:37
  like solidified it that much more.
• 43:38
  It's like see like this is like I had done enough trips with
• 43:42
  like, you know, a lot of other families and like seen that.
• 43:45
  But to then like for my mom to like help facilitate her
• 43:49
  experience that like made it that much better.
• 43:52
  And then my sister and her family have all been out on like
• 43:54
  multiple trips and does stuff and like they, they see it and
• 43:58
  love it and like, we talk about trips a lot.
• 44:00
  And so that's like pretty powerful and fun and exciting
• 44:04
  and, and every so often I'll like get a like actually it was
• 44:08
  like last week, my brother-in-law sent, sent a
• 44:12
  picture of me and my 2 nephews like looking like dorks like on
• 44:15
  the trail or something. Yeah, it's like.
• 44:17
  It's still like daily part of their conversation.
• 44:21
  And Russian rapid still none of my family has made it through
• 44:26
  Russian in an IK without flipping.
• 44:29
  Awesome. They talk about it pretty
• 44:30
  frequently. Yeah.
• 44:32
  And like, it hasn't happened a while, but like a few times he
• 44:34
  would like, send me like a satellite image of Russian Rapid
• 44:37
  and he'd be like, I'm coming for you.
• 44:38
  I'm. Thinking about it, yeah, it's on
• 44:41
  my mind. Do they live near here or?
• 44:44
  No, they live in Minnesota. OK, Yeah, as well.
• 44:46
  My, my mom's from a big family, so I have lots of aunts and
• 44:50
  uncles and cousins and, and none of them have really left except
• 44:53
  for me, the one cousin who lived in California for a little bit,
• 44:56
  but they don't live. They live in Minnesota again.
• 45:00
  What do they think about that? But is there any?
• 45:04
  You know I. Don't know, odd feelings around.
• 45:06
  I don't think so. They've stayed and you left and
• 45:08
  I don't think so. You're not like the black sheep.
• 45:10
  And I like to joke that there's there's a couple types of
• 45:13
  Minnesotans. There's the ones that leave and
• 45:16
  never come back. There's the ones that complain
• 45:20
  about the weather, winter or summer, but don't do anything
• 45:24
  about it. And then there's the snowbirds,
• 45:27
  the people that leave for the winter.
• 45:29
  And all of my family falls into that middle category.
• 45:34
  Just complain. You gotta complain about the
• 45:36
  weather. But like, you could move.
• 45:38
  Yeah. But nobody does.
• 45:41
  But but it's also Minnesota's a pretty cool state.
• 45:43
  Like. There's people that do that
• 45:44
  here. Yeah.
• 45:45
  That bitch and moan about. Yeah, yeah.
• 45:47
  I mean, Linda last night at the party, she's like, I gotta get
• 45:50
  out of here. Like this place is great.
• 45:52
  What are you talking about? Yeah.
• 45:55
  What was it like your first day showing up at the double wide as
• 46:00
  a river guide and like I'm here to to be a river guide.
• 46:05
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Or maybe, yeah.
• 46:06
  How did should we start? Like how did you maybe not
• 46:11
  showing up at the double wide, but like how that career came to
• 46:13
  be, like how that river, like being with Northwest came?
• 46:17
  Yeah, yeah. And then, well, I guess like
• 46:19
  like really like I was just I pretty sure I just like typed
• 46:23
  into maybe it wasn't even Google at the time, but I typed into
• 46:27
  some search bar like Raft guiding Oregon and.
• 46:33
  Because you'd spend time in Ashland, you knew that Oregon
• 46:35
  was the special place to land. Yeah, Yep.
• 46:38
  And so I think that's like how I found Echo River trips and I'm
• 46:46
  like 90% sure, like before I even emailed them, I'm pretty
• 46:52
  sure I emailed Momentum River Expeditions I think is what
• 46:56
  they're called as well. And at that point they were like
• 47:01
  very set on like, oh, you have to have like certain number of
• 47:04
  years experience. And I was like, do you make any
• 47:06
  exceptions? And they're like, sorry, we
• 47:07
  don't. And be like, OK, whatever.
• 47:12
  You're like, how does, how does somebody get experience that
• 47:14
  nobody's going to hire unless you have experience.
• 47:17
  Exactly. And so, yeah, like, I really
• 47:23
  like found the Echo website and I was like, oh, this looks cool.
• 47:25
  Like they have like families on like in the pictures, it's a lot
• 47:28
  of like families. And it just like, looked like a
• 47:31
  nice website. So it was like, oh, it seems
• 47:33
  like a legit place to apply. Also, the application was like,
• 47:36
  I remember being like, oh, this is easy to fill out.
• 47:38
  I can do this. And I remember sitting in my
• 47:46
  friend's basement where I was living at the time, just for
• 47:49
  like this, like brief period doing a phone interview with
• 47:52
  Zach, like sitting on my bed in this like dingy basement
• 47:56
  interviewing with him and like getting off the phone and be
• 48:00
  like, oh, that was cool. And at that point we were like,
• 48:04
  oh, cool, let's meet in Hood River in March because I was
• 48:09
  this was in probably like January or February.
• 48:13
  So I was going, I was spending, maybe it was, it was probably
• 48:17
  January, early January, because I'd spent a few months with
• 48:24
  Knowles in India as a student. And so I was driving through
• 48:28
  Portland to get to Washington. And so I like detoured and went
• 48:33
  out to Hood River and met Zach for an in person interview at
• 48:40
  Double Mountain Brewery, which every time I walk in, it's like
• 48:43
  that's where we sat when I got my job all that long ago.
• 48:46
  Yeah. Have you ever been to Double
• 48:48
  Mountain? I don't.
• 48:49
  Think I went to. Double mountain in Hood River?
• 48:52
  Oh, maybe. Is it right downtown?
• 48:55
  Is it little? It used to be really small, like
• 48:57
  now it's like way bigger. They've like expanded like a.
• 49:00
  Whole I think I've I might, I might have been there, yeah.
• 49:03
  I don't think I've ever been to Hood River I.
• 49:05
  Think it. Was beautiful.
• 49:06
  It's a lovely place. It's similar to this.
• 49:10
  I think we get a little more sunshine.
• 49:12
  Like an Ashland vibe. Yeah, and slightly different
• 49:17
  trees, but not much. It's pretty similar.
• 49:19
  I hear great things. Yeah, Yeah, it's cool.
• 49:24
  Yeah. So I like have this in person
• 49:26
  interview and Zach's like, hey, I like it Can't offer you a lot
• 49:29
  of work, but if you want to like come in, like do a few, do some
• 49:33
  training trips until you're ready, you know, and if things
• 49:36
  often fall into place, you can kind of like, sweet, I'll be
• 49:40
  there. And so then I went to India,
• 49:45
  backpacked and rafted and did all this stuff.
• 49:48
  And I came back and I remember driving from the Seattle
• 49:53
  airport. I probably drove from Seattle
• 49:57
  all the way down here in one day.
• 49:59
  And I remember I had the the landline phone number for the
• 50:03
  double wide and I remember Nick Lorenz answered it.
• 50:08
  I don't know. You probably don't know Nick.
• 50:09
  I was kind of familiar. He's a guide from a long time
• 50:11
  ago. And he like gave me directions
• 50:13
  how to get here because this was before I like I could like type
• 50:17
  it into my phone like I didn't have.
• 50:19
  It was either MapQuest and print it out but.
• 50:23
  Or if you're fancy and you have like a Garmin, like actual GPS
• 50:27
  kind of thing, I'd have one of those.
• 50:30
  So did you like pull over at a gas station and call on a
• 50:34
  landline or? No, I had a cell phone.
• 50:35
  We had a cell phone. Yeah, I had.
• 50:36
  We were. It was that.
• 50:37
  One yeah, it wasn't that long ago, but it.
• 50:39
  Could make mobile phone calls. Yeah, but like the cell phones
• 50:43
  at the double, I didn't work. That's why we had a landline
• 50:45
  and. So there was no Wi-Fi?
• 50:47
  There was. No Wi-Fi.
• 50:49
  There was Wi-Fi, but there wasn't like Wi-Fi calling and
• 50:52
  like text messages didn't go through like anything like that.
• 50:57
  Yes, I remember he like gave me directions and I like wrote them
• 50:59
  down. I'm like, it probably wrote them
• 51:01
  down like in a page in like a paper Atlas.
• 51:04
  I'm pretty sure that's where they were.
• 51:06
  And that Atlas sadly is no longer around.
• 51:08
  But and I remember like getting like I remember coming.
• 51:14
  So as you come up to Ferry Rd. you go the direction I'm coming,
• 51:19
  you take a right and like come towards the river and I
• 51:21
  accidentally took a left and I'd like, I was like, this is, this
• 51:23
  is definitely not, this is like somebody's driveway.
• 51:25
  So it could be like turn around and like you drive up this like
• 51:28
  long kind of steep gravel drive. And I was like, is this really
• 51:31
  the place? And then I remember like showing
• 51:35
  up and it was like, probably it was like late afternoon and
• 51:43
  inappropriate story. This one guide, you know, Billy
• 51:46
  Miller. I don't Billy Miller.
• 51:48
  He's he's this like pretty short little like red haired guy, just
• 51:51
  like super funny and just like a energetic little human.
• 51:56
  It's like an orangutan. Yeah, yeah, that that's, yeah.
• 52:02
  He like runs out from the house and he's like, and I'm like, Oh
• 52:06
  my God, that guy's naked and he's helicoptering is Weiner.
• 52:11
  I'm like, and he goes, oh, sorry, I don't know you.
• 52:13
  And he like walks over and he's like, I'm Billy.
• 52:15
  I was like, Oh my gosh. And so.
• 52:19
  Classic Billy. Yeah, you're you're gonna come
• 52:22
  to find. And so I like pull up to the
• 52:23
  driveway, see this right away. And I'm like, whoa, this is
• 52:27
  crazy. And then the manager at the
• 52:29
  time, Ian, he comes out and he's like, hey, I'm Ian, like let me
• 52:33
  show you around. And he's like, God, you want a
• 52:34
  beer? And I was like, this is the
• 52:36
  place for me. Like this is weird and wild and
• 52:39
  I love this instantly. And he just like showed me
• 52:43
  around and then like probably a couple days later I remember
• 52:49
  he's like, can you you can row a gear button?
• 52:51
  And I was like, yes. And then back of my own.
• 52:53
  I'm like, I hope so. All the things are like I know
• 52:54
  how to do it. Like we'll see.
• 52:57
  And I remember like my first road trip, it was like pretty
• 53:02
  high water. And I mean your long time
• 53:06
  childhood friend Allison was the trip leader and another lady
• 53:11
  that was kind of new to the road, but not new to Echo.
• 53:15
  Like it was us 3 and like a few guests and we did a trip and it
• 53:17
  was like super, super high. And I just remember being like,
• 53:23
  wow, this is super cool. I was telling we're talking
• 53:26
  about this last night with the guy crew because they'd just
• 53:31
  gotten off a rowing school teaching people to row.
• 53:33
  And you were talking about like funny lines.
• 53:36
  And I remember the water was so high that I took, I went in
• 53:40
  between the mid chute and the fish ladder at Rainy Falls, like
• 53:44
  in between where there's typically not water.
• 53:47
  Yeah, there is that enough water?
• 53:49
  And that's where I went because I was like, they're like, I just
• 53:51
  go really just go far, right. And I was like, OK.
• 53:53
  And then I was like, oh, I don't think I was supposed to go here,
• 53:55
  But that's like, we're not. Far enough, right?
• 53:57
  Yeah, not far enough, right. I get it like like touch the
• 53:59
  shore essentially. And then I remember like being.
• 54:02
  But you made it. I made it.
• 54:03
  Oh yeah, I made it fine because it.
• 54:04
  Was. Like, like it was just like, you
• 54:06
  know, some waves, that's it. And it just like rained and
• 54:10
  rained that whole trip. And I remember the first time
• 54:16
  going through Meal Creek Canyon and just be like, whoa, this is
• 54:19
  cool. I'm like going through the
• 54:20
  coffee pot and like getting pushed up on the right.
• 54:23
  And there's like an Eddie like just big enough for like a
• 54:25
  little like 16 foot gear boat to like spin around.
• 54:29
  But you have like a second where you can use an oar to try to get
• 54:33
  out quick or you're like, you're like, and I remember like
• 54:35
  spinning around in there and I like you're like bobbing up and
• 54:38
  down and like spinning. And I'm like, oh, I'm like, OK,
• 54:41
  And I see this other newer guy, Maggie, she comes through and
• 54:45
  she goes keep trying. I was like, got it.
• 54:49
  It's just like, yeah, it's like a very core memory of early,
• 54:55
  like early river trip on the road.
• 54:57
  It was pretty fun. It essentially just like got out
• 55:00
  and it was, it was all fine, but.
• 55:03
  The the percolation flushed you. Yeah, yeah.
• 55:06
  Eventually, yeah, eventually got out.
• 55:07
  It was funny. It's like, it was probably like
• 55:09
  right about this exact time of year.
• 55:12
  Yeah, probably something like. That river season starts.
• 55:15
  I was gonna say. Yeah, it starts.
• 55:17
  It started. It started.
• 55:18
  Yeah, it. Started When did everybody kind
• 55:20
  of show up at the double wide? Like when does everybody kind of
• 55:23
  show up? People kind of trickle in.
• 55:25
  They'll be trickling in for the next like couple of weeks I'd
• 55:29
  say. OK Yep.
• 55:30
  Do you have a lot of noobs going or lots of return guides?
• 55:35
  We have like 3 brand news and 2 they're coming back that came
• 55:44
  last summer and did a couple trips and now they're going to
• 55:46
  come work full time. And then everybody else has been
• 55:50
  around for like 4-5, six years. Yeah.
• 55:55
  And one guy who's here right now, this is probably like his
• 56:00
  eighth season, maybe 7th or 8th. He comes for years in the spring
• 56:05
  and does a lot of our rowing school stuff, and then he goes
• 56:09
  home and he's a APT and he has like a real regular old life.
• 56:14
  Real job. Yeah, real job.
• 56:16
  Office job, Yeah. So an indoor job.
• 56:19
  An indoor job. So with you being operations
• 56:21
  manager, do you find yourself on the river a lot guiding or are
• 56:25
  you more kind of admin behind the scenes?
• 56:28
  I'd say it's like it's not quite 5050 but somewhere kind of
• 56:34
  close. Also probably do between like 5
• 56:40
  and seven trips and a like full time guy, it'll do like 10 to
• 56:45
  15. So for me it's a really good
• 56:49
  balance. If you don't know, August comes
• 56:54
  around and people often refer to it as angry August.
• 56:57
  And it's the end of the summer. It's you're like, oh, it's 100°
• 57:02
  again. You get a little crabby.
• 57:04
  You're like, I'm working again. I don't get that because I don't
• 57:10
  do enough trips. And so it's nice, a nice balance
• 57:12
  for me where I'm like, oh, every trip, it's kind of like I
• 57:14
  haven't done a rafting trip in a long time.
• 57:16
  And so it's nice to be able to do.
• 57:19
  You find yourself picking those up in August to kind of relieve
• 57:22
  a little bit and you're more refreshed at that point.
• 57:24
  Yeah. And so until a lot of times what
• 57:25
  happens, I'll like do a couple trips early in the season as new
• 57:29
  guides are kind of training and learning.
• 57:31
  And then kind of the rest of June, July happens and then like
• 57:37
  as August, I'll start going on more trips.
• 57:39
  Also part of it because some of our guides are like in college
• 57:42
  or like have you know, they're leaving or doing something else.
• 57:46
  And so that's when I'll do my trips kind of on the, the 2 ends
• 57:49
  of things. But it's never like, I'm never
• 57:54
  like I don't get enough river time typically.
• 57:56
  Sometimes I draw the short straw, but that's like that's
• 57:58
  part of the job. But also I'm not like it's way
• 58:02
  better on my body. Like I'm not like dealing with,
• 58:06
  you know, cracked feet and cracked hands all the time and
• 58:10
  foot rot and like sunburn. I'm like not dealing with like
• 58:15
  all of that. That comes with being on the
• 58:17
  river constantly, which is kind of nice.
• 58:21
  And at least here how our schedule works, like the guide
• 58:24
  crew, usually you have like a couple days in between trips.
• 58:29
  And so that that is super helpful for people where they're
• 58:33
  like, oh, I'm not like. You're not doing a lot of
• 58:35
  turnabouts. Backs and like boom, boom, boom
• 58:37
  go like there's a crew right now that got off through every
• 58:39
  yesterday that's loading for a trip and going out tomorrow.
• 58:43
  That's the kind of rare like where they that crew has to do
• 58:48
  that, which is kind of nice for working here where you're not
• 58:51
  go, go, go all the. Time are you I'm gonna.
• 58:54
  Go pee in the bushes. Keep.
• 58:56
  OK. Are you also like, are you on
• 58:59
  the older end of like just age of?
• 59:01
  Four, Yeah. Crew and like average.
• 59:04
  Yeah, yeah. More or less.
• 59:06
  So it's harder on you. I mean, you've been doing it for
• 59:08
  so long that that's where like any career.
• 59:11
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think to because I like,
• 59:19
  I, when I am working, I'm like way more conscious of like, oh,
• 59:22
  don't lift with your back like. You know, really had.
• 59:25
  All that experience, Yeah, like, way, way more time to, like,
• 59:28
  learn to take care of myself, which is nice.
• 59:31
  Yeah. So.
• 59:32
  But I mean, we do have a pretty wide age range of guides.
• 59:37
  Right. I mean, I which is being down at
• 59:38
  Merrill, like, yeah, there was no like, oh, it's like all the
• 59:41
  guides are super young. It's like, no, we have like,
• 59:45
  well, most honestly most now that I'm thinking about it, most
• 59:50
  of the guides that would come through, they are like the older
• 59:53
  OTT crowd because we are a lodge and so they choose to be on
• 59:58
  those trips. So it's like we do have a lot of
• 1:00:01
  that. But I remember like we we'd
• 1:00:03
  always be hanging out and stuff and it was just like the young
• 1:00:06
  kids or whatever. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:08
  So. Yeah.
• 1:00:09
  I mean, I was a young kid, so yeah.
• 1:00:11
  I think our youngest guide is 21 or 22.
• 1:00:15
  Awesome. And our oldest guy it is.
• 1:00:17
  That's so crazy. He's maybe close to 60.
• 1:00:19
  Yeah, I think he turned. Maybe he's not.
• 1:00:21
  I can't remember. But yeah, we have some.
• 1:00:27
  I'm not the oldest but I'm close to but yeah.
• 1:00:32
  That's awesome. How does, How big is Northwest?
• 1:00:35
  Like what did they like? We talked a little bit about
• 1:00:37
  that kind of coming up, but let's really like Northwest is
• 1:00:39
  here, there, everywhere, whatever.
• 1:00:41
  So we do trips here on the Rogue and we do trips on the Middle
• 1:00:47
  Fork of the Salmon in Idaho. Those are the 2 like kind of
• 1:00:51
  core pieces of Northwest. Then we do some spring trips
• 1:00:58
  which we do some trips out on the Awahi.
• 1:01:01
  Which have you done the UI do? That I haven't my dad's really
• 1:01:04
  it's. So cool.
• 1:01:04
  Yeah, I did it once. Oh, you've done it once.
• 1:01:06
  Yeah. We're super cool.
• 1:01:07
  Let's try to do it with my dad next year, OK?
• 1:01:09
  Like he really wants to it's. Really cool.
• 1:01:12
  It's a cool the 1st 8 miles you're like why are we here?
• 1:01:15
  This is. Terrible.
• 1:01:16
  You're just floating through like cow fields.
• 1:01:20
  And it's often like, there's often like a stiff upstream
• 1:01:23
  breeze and you're like, what the this is terrible.
• 1:01:27
  And then again, if you're like, whoa, like this is Oregon, like
• 1:01:31
  this is crazy. It's super cool.
• 1:01:33
  They call it Oregon's Grand Canyon and my mom complained
• 1:01:38
  about this. She just did it a couple weeks
• 1:01:40
  ago and she was like, I've done the Grand Canyon.
• 1:01:43
  It is not. It does not resemble the Grand
• 1:01:46
  Canyon. It's just a deep Canyon in
• 1:01:49
  Oregon. You know what time it is?
• 1:01:52
  Battery switch break. While we're loading a fresh
• 1:01:54
  battery into the camera, let's give a shout out to Northwest
• 1:01:57
  Rafting Company. They're the ones running world
• 1:01:59
  class trips here on the Rogue River.
• 1:02:01
  Four days of paddling, camping, eating like royalty and soaking
• 1:02:05
  in some of the wildest scenery in Oregon.
• 1:02:08
  They also guide places like Bhutan, run whitewater schools,
• 1:02:12
  and basically live the dream. Check them out at Northwest
• 1:02:15
  rafting.com. All right, let's get back into
• 1:02:17
  it. But I'm not sure when we're
• 1:02:19
  actually gonna be able to get back on there.
• 1:02:22
  Yeah. OK, where were we?
• 1:02:27
  Where were we? That's good.
• 1:02:28
  We were. Saying.
• 1:02:31
  The Owahee. Owahee.
• 1:02:32
  Yeah. We're talking about what we.
• 1:02:33
  Yeah, what we do northwest too. Yeah.
• 1:02:36
  So we do the owahee in the spring.
• 1:02:39
  Do you get to do that? Yeah, we don't do a ton of
• 1:02:42
  trips, but I just, so I was just there.
• 1:02:44
  I was like a month and a half ago and.
• 1:02:49
  That's a bucket list. Mm hmm.
• 1:02:50
  It's cool because the Owahi season's like March, April,
• 1:02:52
  yeah. Like, and it you kind of have to
• 1:02:54
  get in like my dad's always like he's looking every day at the
• 1:02:57
  like run off and how it's all playing and.
• 1:03:00
  And it was. People the window.
• 1:03:02
  People were like, you know, two months ago, you're like, oh,
• 1:03:05
  it's gonna run into June because there's a solid snowpack.
• 1:03:10
  Flows were like really good. And then it just like got pretty
• 1:03:17
  hot, really like pretty quick. And once the snowpack starts
• 1:03:20
  going, it goes and I don't think it's running anymore.
• 1:03:25
  So darn. Although you can do trips like
• 1:03:28
  pretty low water if you're willing to work for it a little
• 1:03:32
  bit more. But a lot of people are like,
• 1:03:34
  oh, it's got to be 1500. Yeah, that's my dad.
• 1:03:37
  And you can go. You can go way lower.
• 1:03:39
  It's awesome. If you can go to like 900 you.
• 1:03:42
  Can go way like we did the lowest.
• 1:03:44
  I did it a couple of years ago. We did a trip and it was I
• 1:03:48
  believe it was like 450 Wow and it was very low.
• 1:03:53
  It snowed a bunch. It was it was like the craziest
• 1:03:57
  trip, but it's it's worth it. It's a really cool trip.
• 1:04:03
  It's so far out there, but it's, it's cool And, and I think too
• 1:04:07
  like not like digressive what Northwest does, but like
• 1:04:13
  spending time in burns sort of feels like a little bit like a
• 1:04:17
  home because we'd go and like do trip after trip and you like go
• 1:04:20
  to stay in Burns And like, so it's like, Oh, we stay at the
• 1:04:23
  same hotel all the time and like it has a waffle maker And then
• 1:04:25
  we like, you know, we go to the dump and like throw melons at
• 1:04:29
  the dumpster and, and then then he's like go like waste time in,
• 1:04:35
  in the hot tub at the hotel and then you go back on the river
• 1:04:38
  and it's like, kind of like fun, like spots.
• 1:04:39
  So like I think this like nice little piece of my heart that's
• 1:04:43
  like burns and awahi similar to here, just like way less, but
• 1:04:48
  that's pretty cool. It's really the simple, the
• 1:04:50
  little things like that that make being a river guide
• 1:04:52
  memorable. Is throwing melons at a dumpster
• 1:04:55
  and the hotels along the way. I mean, all because all the
• 1:04:58
  river trips blend together. Yeah, exactly.
• 1:05:01
  And but it's those in between moments that.
• 1:05:05
  Are really meaningful and like fun and like connect you to a
• 1:05:10
  place and make it that much more.
• 1:05:13
  That reminds me, when I was doing weddings, all the weddings
• 1:05:16
  blend together. Yeah, but it's that wedding that
• 1:05:20
  I had, that leftover keg that we went in the back of the parking
• 1:05:23
  lot at Rolly's and did keg stands, me and the crew.
• 1:05:28
  Yeah. Yeah, but like, that's the
• 1:05:29
  memorable fucking shit. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:05:32
  That's what makes you want to keep doing that work is the
• 1:05:35
  little connections and fun times with your coworkers and your
• 1:05:40
  crew in between the work. You're still working.
• 1:05:43
  Yeah, but. Or it's the like when like
• 1:05:45
  something bad happens, but you're like still like with your
• 1:05:49
  like close friends or coworkers, like when you're driving back
• 1:05:52
  from Milwaukee, like part of our front axle and our truck broke
• 1:05:56
  and we were like stranded. I'm like, this sucks.
• 1:05:59
  Like what? What do we do?
• 1:06:00
  We like just barely. We just like barely have cell
• 1:06:03
  phone reception, but we're at the prospect made it to the
• 1:06:08
  prospect Ranger station and the lady's like, oh, like I
• 1:06:10
  collected a bunch of morels across the road there.
• 1:06:13
  And so we just all like wandered around in the woods waiting for
• 1:06:15
  our our ride again. It was like fun.
• 1:06:17
  That's like a piece of spring river trips and all like well,
• 1:06:22
  wow, like remember can I remember in the truck broke down
• 1:06:25
  like that suck. It is cool.
• 1:06:29
  See, those are the stories. That's what we're like.
• 1:06:31
  The stories that have those little interesting moments in
• 1:06:34
  them that are like, that's why I remember that.
• 1:06:37
  Exactly. And the guys like there's like
• 1:06:39
  so many of those like just from like Awahi trips because I've
• 1:06:44
  done like I've done enough of them where you're like, yeah,
• 1:06:46
  it's pretty fun. It's.
• 1:06:47
  It's own vibe. What else does Northwest?
• 1:06:49
  Do we also do the Illinois, which is a tributary here to the
• 1:06:53
  Rogue? It's cool.
• 1:06:55
  Another like, I mean, spring trips are spring trips like you
• 1:06:58
  got to have, you know, some good snowpack weather that helps melt
• 1:07:03
  that snow like in like a reasonable time frame and some
• 1:07:06
  like rain to kind of feed, feed all of it.
• 1:07:10
  And then of course you want sunshine.
• 1:07:12
  So it's like this like weird balance of of everything.
• 1:07:14
  So it's hard, another hard one to catch and like this year,
• 1:07:18
  it's already pretty much done, done running again because we
• 1:07:22
  haven't had any rain You've. Done Illinois.
• 1:07:24
  Haven't. Done it, but it's been a long
• 1:07:25
  time since I've done it. Unfortunately.
• 1:07:28
  It's like and it's like at that time, it's like from where I
• 1:07:31
  live in the winter, it's really far because it's like 5 hour.
• 1:07:34
  It's probably like 6:00-ish hours to put in and then once
• 1:07:38
  you get to take out, it's makes driving home like close to 10
• 1:07:43
  hours. So it's just like it's a far a
• 1:07:46
  far adventure, but it's super awesome.
• 1:07:48
  It's like, imagine the rogue, but like like Smith River
• 1:07:55
  watercolor and like no one else out there like.
• 1:08:00
  Super. And, and it's like a little more
• 1:08:02
  like it's like a little bit drier of a climate.
• 1:08:06
  So it's a little less forested, a little bit, but you have like
• 1:08:11
  pitcher plants and like the Chalmiopsis flower, you have a
• 1:08:13
  bunch of things that are kind of nowhere else in the world.
• 1:08:16
  All like because that Chalmiopsis region is a very
• 1:08:19
  unique Biome of of awesome plants and flora and fauna and
• 1:08:25
  it's a little tiny bio region of beauty.
• 1:08:29
  Cool, cool spot. So those like the the Rogue, the
• 1:08:37
  Middle Fork, the Awahi, the Illinois are kind of like those
• 1:08:41
  are kind of our busiest trips. And then every so often when
• 1:08:46
  everything lines up, we'll do, we do a self support like
• 1:08:52
  inflatable kayak trip on the Check Co, which is like a couple
• 1:08:56
  of drainages over. But it's like probably one of
• 1:09:01
  the hardest hikes in to put in that I've ever done because it's
• 1:09:05
  10 miles. Of hiking.
• 1:09:07
  Of hiking while you're driving. Not driving.
• 1:09:10
  You like drive. It's probably like maybe an hour
• 1:09:12
  from here. It's probably that far to to
• 1:09:14
  like the hike. And then you just like hike 10
• 1:09:15
  miles camp. And then you do this like crazy
• 1:09:21
  inflatable kayak trip where you're like portaging boats and
• 1:09:24
  lining boats down Rapids because we go and it's kind of lower
• 1:09:26
  water, but like a handful of people do it a year.
• 1:09:32
  Paying guests. Paying guests do it.
• 1:09:34
  We had a trip on the books, but I think for a couple weeks from
• 1:09:39
  now, but I think strangely this year there's not enough water
• 1:09:44
  where I think last year, or maybe it was two years ago,
• 1:09:47
  there was too much snow. Like we couldn't they're like
• 1:09:50
  the the Ranger was like, I don't actually know if you can get to
• 1:09:52
  the parking lot. Wow.
• 1:09:54
  And because of that, no one's done the trails.
• 1:09:56
  There could be downed trees like so it's kind of a funny we do
• 1:10:00
  the trip, but we haven't done one in a while because it's
• 1:10:02
  tough to make happen. And then another big thing that
• 1:10:08
  we do is teaching people to row in rowing schools and we do some
• 1:10:14
  of those in Hood River. It's like a, we call it a class
• 1:10:16
  for rowing school. So it's on harder whitewater and
• 1:10:20
  it's just day trips and we do like, you know, three or four of
• 1:10:25
  those a year. So like maybe just for like
• 1:10:29
  people wise, it's like maybe like 20 or 30 people students on
• 1:10:32
  that. And then we do a five day rowing
• 1:10:35
  school down here, which we call our class 3 rowing school, which
• 1:10:38
  is super popular and is we've done a lot of and that's how we
• 1:10:43
  start our season partially because the river's that less
• 1:10:47
  busy and we're a flotilla. Last week there were 13 guests
• 1:10:55
  and 5 guides. Everyone has their own boat and
• 1:11:00
  so there's a lot of boats like moving downstream.
• 1:11:03
  And the guests are students the. Guests are students and they're
• 1:11:06
  learning to row like they're in a boat by themselves and pretty
• 1:11:10
  much all of them come like, oh, I've like rafted a little bit.
• 1:11:13
  I went with a friend and like they kind of showed me a few
• 1:11:16
  things here or there or somebody's like, oh, I've like
• 1:11:19
  just rowed like like class one for like fishing.
• 1:11:23
  And I want to like get into fishing more.
• 1:11:26
  And so we, we have this big program where we teach people to
• 1:11:29
  row. That's cool.
• 1:11:31
  And so that's, that's like I said, that's how we start the
• 1:11:34
  Rogue season and finish the Rogue season.
• 1:11:37
  And you're not just, are you just teaching them how to row or
• 1:11:39
  are you teaching safety and how to set up camp and like how to
• 1:11:43
  run? A river trip.
• 1:11:44
  Not it's not, it's not a guide school and it's like a little
• 1:11:47
  bit how to run a river trip. Some people are interested in
• 1:11:52
  that. I'd say like less people are,
• 1:11:55
  but we do like it in like within the curriculum of learning to
• 1:11:58
  row is some safety and light rescue stuff.
• 1:12:02
  Like we're introducing, you know, knots and anchors on boats
• 1:12:05
  and trees and a little like, just like introducing mechanical
• 1:12:10
  advantage and building 3 to ones and throw bags and boat
• 1:12:14
  flipping. We, we, we do dive into that
• 1:12:19
  stuff. But but it is like if somebody's
• 1:12:22
  vacation, somebody's like, no, I'm here to be serious.
• 1:12:26
  So it's like it's kind of a balance that's a little
• 1:12:28
  optional, yeah. But it's more like how the oars
• 1:12:32
  work. Ferry angles upstream,
• 1:12:34
  downstream. Yep, Yep.
• 1:12:37
  Catch an Eddie. Yep.
• 1:12:39
  And it's all people, like for the most part it's like she'd
• 1:12:43
  say it's like more like slightly people in their like mid 30s to
• 1:12:48
  like 70 or whatever. It's like it's not people that
• 1:12:52
  are looking to be guides. OK.
• 1:12:53
  Typically it's like somebody who's like, I just want to like
• 1:12:56
  learn how to raft and like not a lot of other places.
• 1:12:59
  I know when you're talking about it, I was thinking to myself,
• 1:13:01
  I'm like, that would probably be good for me.
• 1:13:03
  Yeah, and a lot of times people are like, I want to take my my
• 1:13:06
  friends or family rafting and I don't really like, I kind of
• 1:13:09
  know, but not really like need some some guidance and some more
• 1:13:13
  structure to learning this. And probably Sean would enjoy
• 1:13:18
  that too, because he has a want to like, get on the river more
• 1:13:21
  and like be in like a boat so we can take the family with us and
• 1:13:23
  like, do bigger trips with my dad and stuff like that.
• 1:13:26
  But he's like, I just feel like I want some instruction.
• 1:13:30
  Yeah. Like I just kind of wing it
• 1:13:31
  right now and I it's fine. But like, it's not like years of
• 1:13:36
  yeah, you know, just like time a.
• 1:13:38
  Little instruction will build that confidence and comfort.
• 1:13:42
  Yeah, a couple of the people, the students that were on the
• 1:13:44
  trip yesterday, they were like, oh, it was like great class.
• 1:13:48
  I had so much fun. I like, just like gained a lot
• 1:13:50
  of confidence in my skill and like, that's a huge thing, like
• 1:13:54
  being comfortable with your skill.
• 1:13:57
  So if something goes wrong or you're in a situation where
• 1:14:00
  like, oh, that it hopefully goes, oh, that went well.
• 1:14:03
  Like I I was able to learn or make a correction for that
• 1:14:09
  instead of. Panicking.
• 1:14:11
  Instead of panicking and doing nothing and things going really
• 1:14:13
  bad. So, so we do a lot of like
• 1:14:16
  rowing instruction kind of as, as a piece of things.
• 1:14:20
  Where's the like Nepal trip? So Bhutan.
• 1:14:24
  Bhutan. Do you do any more like that?
• 1:14:27
  Anymore, no, Bhutan's the only like international trip that we
• 1:14:29
  do and partially because like that's the only one that we're
• 1:14:32
  able to really sell for some reason.
• 1:14:34
  And I think because not a lot of other, I mean, there's other
• 1:14:39
  companies that like take people to Bhutan, like you can go to
• 1:14:42
  Bhutan with, with back roads. They do bike like bike trips
• 1:14:46
  around the world and National Geographic does a trip there.
• 1:14:49
  And I feel like the Autobahn Society, you see a lot of
• 1:14:54
  burgers going to Bhutan because it's a important flyway.
• 1:15:00
  Like there's places that do them, but somehow, like people
• 1:15:03
  keep finding us and so we keep going back.
• 1:15:06
  Awesome. Great.
• 1:15:06
  Yeah. It's pretty sweet.
• 1:15:07
  So it's good reputation. Yeah.
• 1:15:08
  Yeah. And it's funny.
• 1:15:09
  It's kind of like this little treat for us, like Zach and I
• 1:15:14
  and also like to be able to bring a guide every, you know,
• 1:15:17
  every year, a guide or two each time we go is like, not really a
• 1:15:23
  reward. That's like a weird way to put
• 1:15:25
  it, but it's like a kind of, yeah, like, hey, you've been
• 1:15:28
  with us for a while. Like, hey, we want to like take
• 1:15:30
  care of you as an employee. We want to do something fun with
• 1:15:34
  and for you. Like, you earned it.
• 1:15:36
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:15:37
  So it's a nice like kind of we, we go every every November and
• 1:15:45
  this is like a nice, like little treat.
• 1:15:48
  It's a super special place on a lot of bucket list.
• 1:15:51
  It's expensive to get there. It's funny.
• 1:15:54
  Now I'm like, oh, this is like where I go, yeah, it's my
• 1:15:56
  normal, my normal, full trip. Take it for granted.
• 1:15:59
  A little bit, yeah, a little bit.
• 1:15:59
  And I kind of like I like almost was taking it for granted a
• 1:16:03
  little bit. And then last year we did like a
• 1:16:07
  slightly new itinerary and like flew from the eastern part of
• 1:16:11
  the country kind of back to the western part.
• 1:16:13
  And I just remember being like, whoa, like it just like sparked
• 1:16:16
  that like new exciting feel to things that it's a nice, like,
• 1:16:24
  it's just like a nice like spark.
• 1:16:25
  I'm like, oh, I'm, I am super excited to be here and I'm super
• 1:16:30
  appreciative that I get to come here that much more.
• 1:16:34
  And it was cool, like a couple of the Bhutanese guys that we
• 1:16:37
  work with and that I've known for a long time, one of them,
• 1:16:41
  he's like, he's like in his mid 20s.
• 1:16:42
  He had never been on an airplane before.
• 1:16:44
  And that was his, like, first airplane ride.
• 1:16:46
  And so he was just like, wow, look over there, look over
• 1:16:49
  there. He was like had so much fun.
• 1:16:50
  A couple of other guys were like that too.
• 1:16:52
  But like, oh, we've been on an airplane.
• 1:16:53
  We got to be cool, you know? But he was just like a little
• 1:16:55
  kid. And so it's pretty fun to like,
• 1:16:58
  see his name's Arjun. Just like to see Arjun just like
• 1:17:00
  explode with seeing his country from such a different
• 1:17:05
  perspective, which is pretty cool.
• 1:17:07
  That's cool. So awesome.
• 1:17:08
  Like. Absorb that enthusiasm, the
• 1:17:12
  childlike wonder, I mean, when we witnessed it, even when we
• 1:17:14
  take it for granted, it has to rub off somehow.
• 1:17:17
  Is Northwest the only company that does rafting trips in
• 1:17:21
  Bhutan or is Bhutan? Is it is like rafting a normal
• 1:17:24
  thing to do with? Bhutan, there's a couple other
• 1:17:26
  companies here in the US that go every so often.
• 1:17:30
  Like we'll see BOBO there, seen them there a couple of times.
• 1:17:34
  I think there's some other companies that would do a trip.
• 1:17:39
  Rafting in Bhutan is very common and was like a little bit more
• 1:17:45
  common and popular pre COVID with Indian tourists because as
• 1:17:53
  as kind of the as Bhutan started opening India was like, hey,
• 1:17:58
  we'll keep our eye out for you. Like so the Indian Bhutan is
• 1:18:01
  like pretty like like in terms of like politics, like they're
• 1:18:05
  kind of like brother, sister or, you know, kind of that
• 1:18:07
  relationship and so. Yeah, they fight all the time.
• 1:18:11
  Or they. Yeah, they fight, but love each
• 1:18:13
  other a lot. That's actually like they do.
• 1:18:15
  It's kind of that or like maybe they fight without the parents
• 1:18:19
  saying kind of thing. But so Indian people, like
• 1:18:23
  people from India can go to Bhutan.
• 1:18:25
  They used to be able to just go for free where everybody else in
• 1:18:28
  the world, you have to pay a certain visa fee for each day
• 1:18:32
  you're there. And so India like a lot of
• 1:18:34
  Indians would go there for their vacation.
• 1:18:37
  And so there is like one stretch of river that's like Class 1
• 1:18:42
  plus that was common for to see people rafting on.
• 1:18:48
  And I think COVID like changed that a little bit.
• 1:18:51
  There's a few less Indian tourists there.
• 1:18:55
  Also the kind of regulations of Indian tourism in Bhutan has
• 1:19:02
  like changed a little bit to see a few less, but like that's
• 1:19:05
  where it's common. It's like they're just doing
• 1:19:07
  like 1/2 day class. It'd be like almost like putting
• 1:19:10
  on it Robertson and going down to Hog Creek or something.
• 1:19:14
  Like maybe, like maybe that's maybe a little too exciting,
• 1:19:16
  but. Like 2 Yeah, it's like.
• 1:19:20
  A couple rifles like it's it's like scenic.
• 1:19:23
  It's like pretty cool and it was cool because you used to like
• 1:19:26
  raft next to. What's?
• 1:19:31
  Their they're called the Mocho Mocho Mocho and choose water.
• 1:19:35
  So it's like the MO MO water, but it used to be able to like
• 1:19:39
  raft right next to like their government building.
• 1:19:42
  It's so in, in Bhutan, there's all these, these they're called
• 1:19:47
  zongs and they're essentially it's like a fortress.
• 1:19:50
  So it's this big wall fortress inside there, there's like a
• 1:19:55
  bunch of government buildings. There's a monastery.
• 1:19:57
  And historically when the Tibetan people were like coming
• 1:20:05
  down and attacking Bhutan, all the village people that go into
• 1:20:09
  these zongs and like, they'd like, you know, fight off the
• 1:20:13
  fight off the Tibetans. And then they'd leave and they'd
• 1:20:16
  like the village people like, go back out and work on their farms
• 1:20:19
  and and whatnot. And so dotted throughout the
• 1:20:21
  country are all these big songs. And you used to be able to raft
• 1:20:24
  right next to like one of the most important winter Capitol
• 1:20:28
  building, essentially. So you're like, wow, look at
• 1:20:31
  that. That's it's like phenomenal.
• 1:20:33
  It's really cool. Are they really?
• 1:20:34
  Old and they're really old, yeah.
• 1:20:37
  And so it's like really cool like raft next to that.
• 1:20:39
  They don't let you raft by anymore, so you have to like
• 1:20:41
  take out like above it and you're like, that's still pretty
• 1:20:44
  cool because that that's a cool building and you like go inside
• 1:20:46
  and they're just like all the architecture.
• 1:20:50
  It's very traditional. It's like very ornate and just
• 1:20:52
  like painted and it's fantastic to be like, wow, this is, you
• 1:20:56
  know, hundreds of years old and. Still standing still.
• 1:21:00
  Standing. Still operating, yeah.
• 1:21:02
  Yeah, you're like, oh, Yep. And my office is like, right
• 1:21:05
  there. You know, you're like, in this
• 1:21:06
  old squeaky wooden door. It's pretty cool.
• 1:21:10
  So it rafting's not super common.
• 1:21:12
  Kayaking there is like not the people, people that go there to
• 1:21:16
  kayak usually come from like here maybe like Europe or
• 1:21:19
  something or, and they come with us or with the reamer adventure
• 1:21:24
  kayaking. So it's not super common, but
• 1:21:31
  still like a, a small piece of the tourism of Bhutan, which
• 1:21:35
  tourism in Bhutan is like their big thing.
• 1:21:38
  It's like, it's like hydropower and tourism or how they like,
• 1:21:44
  they're kind of there. It's kind of weird if it's like
• 1:21:46
  their imports are like, you know, what generates money for
• 1:21:50
  education and healthcare and, you know, social services for
• 1:21:54
  the people of Bhutan. How do locals react to seeing
• 1:21:58
  people show up to go rafting? Are they confused?
• 1:22:02
  Are they curious? Are they like it?
• 1:22:04
  Kind of depends on where you go, OK.
• 1:22:07
  And like, so they in the Punaka valley, which is kind of like
• 1:22:10
  central ish Bhutan loosely. That's where a lot there's a lot
• 1:22:14
  of tourism there and that's where a lot of rafting happens
• 1:22:16
  because it's it's pretty warm year round because it's lower
• 1:22:20
  elevation. And I think for the most part,
• 1:22:24
  the people there's like, Oh yeah, it's like normal now.
• 1:22:27
  But you like as you kind of like spread out or go other places,
• 1:22:30
  people like, what is that? Like that's crazy.
• 1:22:32
  We now are starting to do a river a little bit farther east.
• 1:22:35
  And I think people are a little like, oh, crazy to see you guys
• 1:22:39
  here. We don't see very many people
• 1:22:41
  coming to like enjoy the river or float down the river too
• 1:22:44
  much. But for the most part, I think
• 1:22:47
  they're like, they're interested and like excited and curious,
• 1:22:54
  like, whoa, what's going on as they're like, I mean, they Baton
• 1:23:01
  hasn't been like open to the world as a country for all that
• 1:23:04
  long. Like realistically.
• 1:23:07
  And so there's like, yeah, there's people that are still
• 1:23:10
  like, whoa, this is crazy. We want, we want, you know,
• 1:23:13
  social progress and the like, you know, have more freedoms and
• 1:23:18
  money and things to like, do because they're still like
• 1:23:21
  pretty like heavily like agriculture society where
• 1:23:26
  they're in. A lot of people still work on
• 1:23:27
  farms and they like grow a lot of food and there's not a lot of
• 1:23:31
  imports and exports. And so I think people are still
• 1:23:34
  like excited to like step into the modern world, but they're
• 1:23:37
  still very tied to like tradition, which is cool.
• 1:23:40
  So as you, as you go through the country, it's cool because
• 1:23:43
  you're like, oh, during the day, like most people are wearing the
• 1:23:48
  traditional dress, which is for men.
• 1:23:50
  It's like this like bathrobe kind of thing.
• 1:23:52
  It's called a go and has this like giant like side pocket.
• 1:23:55
  And there's like, people are always like pulling like things
• 1:23:58
  out of their, their pocket. And then the women are in Kira,
• 1:24:00
  which is a similar looking thing.
• 1:24:02
  It almost looks a little bit more like a sari.
• 1:24:06
  So everyone just like that, that's what you wear.
• 1:24:09
  And then at like 5:00, their work day is over or whatever and
• 1:24:12
  you see people in like western clothes and like you go to the
• 1:24:15
  bar and they're like, you know, a band singing like I remember
• 1:24:19
  one time sitting in this bar and they're playing like 80s power
• 1:24:22
  ballads and you're just like, this is so funny.
• 1:24:27
  They. Speak English when they're
• 1:24:29
  singing, but they speak Boutanese.
• 1:24:33
  Typically. I love that when I go to other
• 1:24:37
  countries and they don't, they can't speak a lick of
• 1:24:40
  conversational English but they can sing every Adele.
• 1:24:44
  Song. Houston song word for.
• 1:24:47
  Word notes. They've no idea what they're
• 1:24:50
  saying, but they can say it and they you can understand what
• 1:24:52
  they're saying and it sounds wonderful.
• 1:24:54
  Do you have any big other than that story coming up here?
• 1:24:58
  Do you have any big core memories over there that you're
• 1:25:01
  like whoa or scary or anything? And that was just hit hard.
• 1:25:05
  I'm trying. To think it's scary.
• 1:25:06
  I think like besides like that first time watching those people
• 1:25:10
  do 80s power belt, the cover band, a handful, I think a
• 1:25:17
  couple years ago, our guide. So when you go on a trip, you
• 1:25:25
  have like a cultural guide and he like takes you around.
• 1:25:27
  You have a driver that like drives you in a little bus and
• 1:25:29
  like takes you all these places. And so our cultural guide was
• 1:25:33
  we're like, oh, like we go sing karaoke.
• 1:25:36
  And he's like, yes, we will. And so like one night he like
• 1:25:40
  came and found myself and my now fiance was, he was like, hey,
• 1:25:44
  let's, we'll walk up the street and go to karaoke.
• 1:25:46
  Like, OK. And so we like walk up this road
• 1:25:49
  and we go under this karaoke bar and there's like four other
• 1:25:53
  Bhutanese people there. And we're like, he's like, we,
• 1:25:56
  we just want something to drink. So we're sitting there and next,
• 1:25:59
  like some people are singing a little karaoke.
• 1:26:02
  And I was like, it's your turn. What are you singing?
• 1:26:05
  He like brought us the book and like, you know, we, we signed up
• 1:26:08
  to to sing karaoke and buying this what I sang into the first
• 1:26:17
  time I went there, I was with some of the guides in this young
• 1:26:20
  guy. Tinley kept playing a Josh
• 1:26:23
  Turner song. Are you familiar with Josh
• 1:26:26
  Turner? He's like a country singer.
• 1:26:28
  He's got a really deep voice. He sings a song called Your Man.
• 1:26:31
  And so it was always kind of this like joke that like, oh,
• 1:26:34
  your man is like this like song that the Bhutanese love like
• 1:26:37
  kind of jokingly. And then so that's what I what I
• 1:26:41
  sang. And like everyone there was like
• 1:26:44
  6 or 7 people in the bar just was like, yeah, they like loved
• 1:26:47
  it because they apparently loved Josh Turner there.
• 1:26:50
  I thought it was like the best thing.
• 1:26:52
  So it's like Josh Turner and your man.
• 1:26:55
  This song are like so tied to Bhutan for me and like what a
• 1:26:59
  strange way. That is cool, yeah.
• 1:27:02
  This is pretty fun. And I think some of like, so
• 1:27:06
  yeah, I've been a handful of times and I remember just like
• 1:27:08
  singing karaoke because they've kind of like, I'd say they they
• 1:27:12
  enjoy karaoke. It's pretty common, a common
• 1:27:14
  thing. And another more common thing is
• 1:27:19
  snooker. Do you know what snooker is?
• 1:27:21
  No, snooker is it's like pool. It's like billiards, but it's
• 1:27:24
  the tables like maybe twice as big.
• 1:27:29
  I feel like I might have seen. This and the ball that's red and
• 1:27:33
  I think they're red and white balls.
• 1:27:35
  Maybe it's a bunch of red balls and then a bunch of like blue,
• 1:27:38
  red, green, yellow, black, orange, like another bunch of
• 1:27:41
  balls. And then the like pool cues like
• 1:27:46
  on one like the the spot where you hit the ball, it's like no
• 1:27:49
  bigger than like the end of a pencil eraser.
• 1:27:51
  It's really hard and the table's huge.
• 1:27:53
  Are the pull stick short? They're shorter, yeah.
• 1:27:56
  I think I like witnessed. I never knew what it was called
• 1:28:00
  but I've seen it and been like. What the motherfucker?
• 1:28:02
  Yeah. And so there's a lot of places
• 1:28:04
  to play snooker such have a lot of memories of like playing
• 1:28:08
  snooker with a couple of the guides there.
• 1:28:11
  And it's it's it's a really challenging game.
• 1:28:14
  I'm not very good at pool. Make the table way bigger and
• 1:28:18
  you have to hit way more balls into the pockets.
• 1:28:20
  And it's like way it's, it's like comical just because it's,
• 1:28:25
  yeah, it's a tough game, but it's like pretty fun.
• 1:28:27
  You're like, oh, let's go, let's go play snooker for a little
• 1:28:29
  bit. And then there's people like
• 1:28:31
  waiting to play, like, are you guys ever going to finish?
• 1:28:33
  You're so bad at this. We're playing like one game is
• 1:28:36
  like an hour long and it's pretty fun.
• 1:28:39
  Commitment. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:28:41
  But it's pretty fun. And another like very common,
• 1:28:44
  like you go into so many places and they're like, hey, tea, tea,
• 1:28:49
  coffee. What like tea, coffee?
• 1:28:52
  Do you want tea or coffee? And like everywhere you go, they
• 1:28:54
  just like offer you tea or coffee.
• 1:28:56
  And so a lot of the guys that I've gone there with where it's
• 1:28:59
  like, oh, you tea, coffee and does just like have fun, always
• 1:29:03
  inside joke to offer tea salad. Yeah, super salad.
• 1:29:07
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:29:09
  So yeah, like I've just like formed a lot of like fun bonds
• 1:29:15
  with the guides that like the the, the river guides that work
• 1:29:19
  there and a couple of the culture guides and like the bus
• 1:29:22
  driver Karma and. And he does it every time with
• 1:29:25
  you guys. Yeah, pretty much because, yeah,
• 1:29:28
  we, so we like work with another company over there that like has
• 1:29:31
  all the rafting gear. And the guy that owned it had
• 1:29:38
  like learned to raft and learned to kayak in Nepal and they kind
• 1:29:42
  of brought it and started like a a cultural sightseeing company
• 1:29:46
  that brings people in and like shows in the country.
• 1:29:48
  But he's like, oh, I also like rafting and kayaking and and I
• 1:29:53
  guess he had taught the king of Bhutan how to kayak.
• 1:29:55
  Wow, that. Sounds pretty cool.
• 1:29:56
  Because they were like high school friends, I.
• 1:30:00
  Went to high school with the king.
• 1:30:01
  Yeah, yeah. No big.
• 1:30:02
  Deal. Nothing big.
• 1:30:06
  And so yeah, so like we work with all of the same, like the
• 1:30:08
  same people there. And so it's like, you know, we
• 1:30:12
  haven't called. We refer to them as the boys.
• 1:30:14
  It's like, you know, a handful of men in their like 20
• 1:30:18
  thirties, but I guess they're all pretty bitch 30 now that
• 1:30:23
  like learned to kayak and and raft guide and have, you know,
• 1:30:26
  gone to trainings in Nepal. A couple of them have gone and
• 1:30:28
  worked in in Japan and worked and yeah, it's pretty cool.
• 1:30:34
  We've actually IA couple of years ago, Zach and I raised
• 1:30:38
  money to bring them to the US for some training and like do
• 1:30:41
  stuff. It hasn't happened yet because
• 1:30:45
  the visa process is so like it's it's been really like
• 1:30:49
  impossible, it feels because they have to get a visa for them
• 1:30:52
  to get a visa to come here. They have to go down to Delhi
• 1:30:55
  for like an in person interview and like the wait for that
• 1:30:58
  interview is like years long. But if you know the right
• 1:31:02
  people, they can get you in. And it's been like, it's a
• 1:31:04
  paperwork nightmare. Well, the.
• 1:31:07
  Driver knows the king. Yeah, well, that's that's been
• 1:31:10
  the tricky part. So that guy passed away probably
• 1:31:13
  like 6 or seven years ago. So we're a little less connected
• 1:31:16
  to the king, but it's sad. Yeah, that's.
• 1:31:20
  Me too, yeah. Yeah, but that that was like,
• 1:31:24
  oh, if his name was Yugs, like, oh, if Yugs was around, it would
• 1:31:27
  have like that much more would just, like, happen because he
• 1:31:30
  was like very well connected, a very charismatic guy and, like,
• 1:31:33
  knew the right people. Because it's all about who you
• 1:31:37
  know. All you know.
• 1:31:39
  Yeah, everything. Yeah, Yeah.
• 1:31:42
  So that's like Bhutan. It's kind of similar to here in
• 1:31:47
  like Rome in middle of nowhere Oregon.
• 1:31:51
  Yeah, middle of nowhere Oregon and like Burns, Oregon, like
• 1:31:56
  there are these like little pieces that I'm just like so
• 1:31:58
  connected to just like like, yeah, it kind of feels like
• 1:32:03
  where I grew up as opposed to Minnesota or yeah, a lot of
• 1:32:08
  other places. Like I don't have a strong drive
• 1:32:12
  or connection to like go back to Minnesota because I don't feel
• 1:32:15
  is like many things pulling me there where I'm like, oh, I got
• 1:32:19
  to keep coming back to the road like every year.
• 1:32:21
  It's like a they said like Zach and I have a conversation like
• 1:32:24
  you still want to go down there. You still want to like.
• 1:32:27
  And I'm like, Yep, like some there's like, you know, this
• 1:32:29
  piece of me that's still very tied to here because of the
• 1:32:33
  river, because of sharing the outside with people that it's
• 1:32:37
  still like very important and just yeah, so tied to tied to
• 1:32:42
  this place. So I think too, a big part is
• 1:32:44
  like where we're sitting, like I've never really, I've never
• 1:32:47
  been here. Maybe we're not that far from.
• 1:32:50
  Are you like, you know, probably like throw a baseball like 6 or
• 1:32:53
  7 times and hit the warehouse like is it's not very far.
• 1:32:57
  And I like run down to like like where we started walking up here
• 1:33:00
  like two or three times a week. So it's like always so fun to be
• 1:33:05
  able to like see something new in a very familiar place every
• 1:33:08
  time you go somewhere, which is you're like, whoa, look at that.
• 1:33:11
  That's how I feel about just going up a couple weekends ago
• 1:33:14
  to the Green Springs. I've never been up in that
• 1:33:18
  country before. And I was like, my gosh, a new
• 1:33:22
  map unlocked. Yeah, Yeah, it was cool.
• 1:33:26
  Yeah. And I'm just like, this is in my
• 1:33:27
  backyard. Why haven't I, like, really
• 1:33:28
  explored this? Because I keep going to these
• 1:33:31
  places that I'm familiar and I know that I love and I want to
• 1:33:33
  experience again. But that holds me back from
• 1:33:36
  exploring maybe another spot. Yeah, that's.
• 1:33:39
  Like being a kind of a tourist in your own yeah, home, yeah.
• 1:33:42
  And very much. It's it's home, it's familiar,
• 1:33:45
  it's comfortable. Yeah, you have those places you
• 1:33:47
  go back to, but there's so much here to experience and explore.
• 1:33:52
  And our hike last on Wednesday, going to the Middle Fork, Yeah,
• 1:33:56
  trail like that was middle. Fork of the Applegate Trail had
• 1:33:58
  never didn't. Even know that was a thing,
• 1:34:00
  yeah. We didn't either till we.
• 1:34:02
  Went hike, was amazing out there.
• 1:34:04
  Yeah. And I was just like, why haven't
• 1:34:06
  I explored this section area? Cool.
• 1:34:09
  That was when I studied abroad and was travelling in Europe for
• 1:34:14
  a few months. And my motivation when I in
• 1:34:17
  2010, my motivation to come back was why am I travelling in
• 1:34:23
  another country, on another continent when there's so much
• 1:34:26
  in my own, in my own town, in my own county, in my own state, in
• 1:34:31
  my own country that I've never seen and explored?
• 1:34:34
  And now I'm finally like diving into a project that is allowing
• 1:34:38
  me to do that and forcing me to explore new trails and go new
• 1:34:43
  places within an hour of home. Yeah.
• 1:34:47
  And here there's so many of those places.
• 1:34:49
  So many, like I found two last year, Bolt Mountain, which is
• 1:34:55
  really neat. And I don't think this has a
• 1:34:58
  name, but as you're standing in the parking lot at Fred Meyer,
• 1:35:03
  like looking E there's two radio towers like you can, you can you
• 1:35:08
  can walk up there. Yeah, which is cool.
• 1:35:10
  Yeah, yeah, that's a, that's a little fitness hike or whatever.
• 1:35:14
  Yeah. What?
• 1:35:15
  Was that? I think that was your phone
• 1:35:17
  e-mail or something. Yeah.
• 1:35:20
  So yeah, there's always like new stuff.
• 1:35:22
  There's so much. Yeah, I have this like, have to
• 1:35:25
  like do a little more map thinking about it, but figuring
• 1:35:29
  out how to run to all of the radio towers in town.
• 1:35:32
  Yeah, 'cause there's so many of them.
• 1:35:34
  Like, it's like you look at, you're like, oh, there's radio.
• 1:35:36
  Showers. I've been to the new Dollar
• 1:35:38
  Mountain I. Haven't been to new Dollar
• 1:35:39
  Mountain trails yet. I'm glad you.
• 1:35:41
  I was thinking about that. And I also have a friend that's
• 1:35:44
  working on the trails there and I'd like oh, I need to text him
• 1:35:46
  and be like hey, I'm here. Like what have you been up to?
• 1:35:51
  It was fun when he told me he was coming down here to work.
• 1:35:55
  He's like, oh, like are there any places, any places I should
• 1:35:58
  check out? And I was like so many.
• 1:36:00
  He's like, oh, here, here's my list so far that somebody else
• 1:36:03
  could give me. It was like 2 things.
• 1:36:04
  And I, which is like my friend Brody and I, I don't know if
• 1:36:07
  you've met Brody, He works, he's worked on the road for a while.
• 1:36:10
  He worked at Sundance for a little bit.
• 1:36:11
  He's our sweet but driver in Middle on the Middle Fork now,
• 1:36:16
  but he lived in Medford for a while, yeah.
• 1:36:18
  Yeah, OK. I don't think we've met, but
• 1:36:19
  I've seen seen his name around. We, like, filled up this sheet
• 1:36:23
  of paper with things for him to do.
• 1:36:24
  Like, here you go. He's like, oh, my God.
• 1:36:26
  Like, I'm like, yeah, we got a little carried away.
• 1:36:29
  Yeah. But.
• 1:36:29
  There's a lot to do down here and yeah, there's so much.
• 1:36:35
  Well, it's going to be a great like trail running area, but if
• 1:36:38
  you want to explore it on a bike, yeah, we have bikes at the
• 1:36:41
  bike shop You. Can borrow.
• 1:36:42
  I have a bike that I think I'm going to bring down next week.
• 1:36:45
  Awesome. Yeah.
• 1:36:46
  Biking scares me, though. And I know I love biking and I
• 1:36:51
  spent a lot of my, like, 20s biking, but I've like, not a lot
• 1:36:57
  of people that have like, crashed and, like wrecked their
• 1:36:59
  shoulders under collarbones. And I'm like, I know that I can,
• 1:37:02
  like, bike to a degree where that probably won't happen, but
• 1:37:06
  I'm still scared. Now I'm like, scared too.
• 1:37:09
  Yeah, like a little bit. My best friend, my childhood
• 1:37:12
  best friend, her dad was a big biker and he would keep a side
• 1:37:17
  mirror on his work desk. Yeah, that broke off on his ass
• 1:37:22
  when a car came too close to him biking and I heard.
• 1:37:26
  He told me the. Story when I'm like 6 years old,
• 1:37:29
  yeah, you're like never getting on a bike.
• 1:37:30
  No, I don't need to ride a bike. Can't do it Yeah, it's funny how
• 1:37:33
  that that'll hit you like like those formative that that was a
• 1:37:37
  formative thing big time. But that would mount.
• 1:37:39
  I mean, mountain biking it is dangerous, don't get me wrong.
• 1:37:41
  But if you're on a decent trail yeah, yeah.
• 1:37:44
  And one of your level, just like, you know, rafting and.
• 1:37:49
  You start basic and you build your confidence, build your
• 1:37:51
  skills. Just like somebody going out on
• 1:37:53
  a rowing school. Absolutely.
• 1:37:54
  Maybe done it one time and OK, now you learn a little bit, you
• 1:37:58
  build that skill and next time you can go a little bit more.
• 1:38:01
  Challenging we just did dollar like 2 weeks ago with like the
• 1:38:05
  bike crew and it was like I was like I almost fell on a couple
• 1:38:12
  of the berms cuz I was like these are steep yeah the dirt is
• 1:38:15
  loose and new yeah like I'm on a bike that's hella heavy I was on
• 1:38:19
  my E bike and it was just like you know I was like oh I don't
• 1:38:22
  really have very much fun like this wasn't really good you know
• 1:38:26
  so. I like chill fun.
• 1:38:28
  Yeah. And I think there's there's like
• 1:38:30
  balance where you're like risk versus reward.
• 1:38:34
  It changes. It's like this and like, I guess
• 1:38:36
  like now for me, like mountain biking, the things have changed
• 1:38:41
  a little bit where I'm like, I don't know, don't.
• 1:38:46
  Push it as hard. Yeah, I don't want to get pushed
• 1:38:50
  to push it that hard, like whether it's me, like myself
• 1:38:53
  pushing myself to like do something faster or like do a
• 1:38:57
  bigger jump or something. I don't really do any of that.
• 1:38:59
  I just, it's mostly like fitness.
• 1:39:02
  Yeah, it's a the fitness component.
• 1:39:04
  And then when we mountain bike like Ashland, of course it's the
• 1:39:07
  like techiness, but I'm still like getting that work out
• 1:39:10
  'cause I'm like up off of my bike.
• 1:39:12
  I am squatting the whole time. Like it is a grind even going
• 1:39:16
  down the mountain. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:39:17
  But like, so it's a little bit of like both like really fun,
• 1:39:22
  kind of flowy, like just to feel.
• 1:39:24
  It's almost like the skiing or snowboarding.
• 1:39:26
  It's just like flow. And like, you know, I'm not
• 1:39:29
  going too hardcore to where it's, I'm staying on blue
• 1:39:33
  greens. Yeah.
• 1:39:35
  The occasional black. I might have to walk, you know?
• 1:39:39
  It's like I'm not going too hard.
• 1:39:41
  Yeah. So I'm just enjoying anyway.
• 1:39:43
  That's so cool. Well, it seems like to kind of
• 1:39:46
  recap, your life was not very outdoor oriented until it was.
• 1:39:52
  And it was lots of, and then kind of major but small profound
• 1:39:58
  epiphanies of, wow, this is where I want to be.
• 1:40:01
  This is how I want to live my life.
• 1:40:02
  And now that's your full, fully immersed in outdoor lifestyle,
• 1:40:08
  living mostly outside during the summer months and just yearning
• 1:40:12
  to get back outside during the winter months.
• 1:40:15
  Yeah. And lots, lots of impactful
• 1:40:18
  events along the way. Do you have like one more major?
• 1:40:24
  Life changing, pivotal outdoor experience that either
• 1:40:30
  solidified your commitment to the outdoors or change the way
• 1:40:34
  that you interact with the outdoors or just really like
• 1:40:38
  defined what it means to be Michael in the outdoors.
• 1:40:45
  That's a good I, I, I wish I would have put way more thought
• 1:40:48
  into that because I'm sure there is.
• 1:40:51
  I'm sure there's like something really good in profound that I
• 1:40:55
  could think of, but I don't like, I'm one thing.
• 1:41:00
  I think there's I think what it comes down to.
• 1:41:05
  It's not like necessarily like 1 moment, but it's those moments
• 1:41:11
  when you're outside and it's really hard and you're in that
• 1:41:19
  like, why am I here? What am I doing kind of moment
• 1:41:26
  that as I like look back and get a little bit older, then I'm
• 1:41:34
  like, whoa, those were super important and super fun.
• 1:41:39
  Like I remember on a a backpacking trip, waking up,
• 1:41:45
  we're in like a mega mid style tent, doesn't have like a floor.
• 1:41:48
  And no, like it's just almost like a little like triangle
• 1:41:50
  circus tent. We always call it waking up.
• 1:41:54
  And we had slept through a Blizzard and we're all, there's
• 1:42:00
  three or four of us in this and we're all covered in snow.
• 1:42:04
  Like I'm like laying down like this and there's like a couple
• 1:42:07
  inches of snow on top of me. Oh my.
• 1:42:08
  God. And we're like, we all wake up.
• 1:42:10
  And I was like, oh, that was crazy.
• 1:42:13
  Like here, here we are. And I remember I was with.
• 1:42:16
  You must sleep hard, yeah. And had a real warm sleeping
• 1:42:20
  bag. I sleep through everything, but
• 1:42:23
  I know it says if this trip was with a Knowles instructor course
• 1:42:27
  there is like a group of us and I just happened to be the leader
• 1:42:31
  of the day that day. And one of the other ones like I
• 1:42:35
  was like getting out of my tan. He comes over and said we got to
• 1:42:37
  pack up. We got to go now.
• 1:42:38
  And I was like, whoa, whoa, like relax.
• 1:42:40
  Like it's not even snowing anymore.
• 1:42:41
  Like I get it. We're all like covered in snow,
• 1:42:43
  but like, let's just like relax and enjoy the morning.
• 1:42:46
  And our plan is to walk down to some grass today, which we
• 1:42:50
  hadn't seen grass in like, you know, 2 weeks.
• 1:42:54
  And so it was just like like that moment of like everybody's
• 1:42:57
  in the same page, everybody's stuff, like everybody slept
• 1:43:01
  essentially in a snowdrift last night.
• 1:43:04
  But here we are. We.
• 1:43:05
  Survived. We survived.
• 1:43:06
  We're like we're we're laughing about it.
• 1:43:09
  Like once we got everything packed up, we were laughing
• 1:43:11
  about the like the whole hike down to like a re ration spot.
• 1:43:15
  Like that was like, that was really hard.
• 1:43:20
  But now it became like a core memory.
• 1:43:22
  You're like, Oh yeah, we slept to that crazy Blizzard and
• 1:43:25
  everyone woke up in the snowdrift in their tent.
• 1:43:29
  Weren't expecting that kind of thing.
• 1:43:31
  Or just like, you know, anytime you're on a river trip and it's
• 1:43:33
  just like raining the whole time and you're like, it's more rain,
• 1:43:37
  more rain, but you're like, Oh no, it's just rain.
• 1:43:39
  Like I had on the owahe, I had one of the, one of our guests,
• 1:43:43
  his wife had done a trip on the Owahe like 5 or 6 years ago and
• 1:43:47
  it rained for five days straight.
• 1:43:51
  And he was joking about that. And I like to think about that
• 1:43:53
  trip all the time because it was so like we're all just there
• 1:43:58
  like there's nothing more you can do.
• 1:44:00
  We put up a tarp, you know, we had lots of hot drinks and we,
• 1:44:04
  you know, build a fire every chance we get.
• 1:44:05
  Some people would say warm, like it's it's all those like really
• 1:44:09
  hard things that are really, to me have been like really
• 1:44:12
  important and really fun because they're memorable because you
• 1:44:17
  learn about yourself and you learn about other people,
• 1:44:21
  whether it's good or bad. But it's just like, yeah,
• 1:44:25
  important to go to those hard places so you can learn from
• 1:44:31
  them and enjoy your time. And the your big running ultras,
• 1:44:34
  yeah, like that's going to a hard place.
• 1:44:37
  The pancave, the the runners call it.
• 1:44:39
  Yeah, if you don't know about the pancave, there's lots of
• 1:44:43
  interesting like things and like, yeah, the guy, I enjoy
• 1:44:47
  going there because it's rewarding once you make it out
• 1:44:53
  of the other side. That's where you grow.
• 1:44:57
  Grow in comfort. You grow in challenge.
• 1:45:00
  And that like. Really, that like really is for
• 1:45:03
  me, really is true. Maybe it's a little bit, it's
• 1:45:05
  different for everybody, but like it's, it's cool.
• 1:45:08
  Like, Oh yeah, I did that really hard thing.
• 1:45:11
  You didn't die, I. Didn't die, so let's.
• 1:45:13
  Do it. Again, like, I'm gonna keep
• 1:45:15
  doing it. Like, yeah, like I remember it
• 1:45:16
  mile like 80 or 90, and it was mile 90.
• 1:45:20
  It was like coming down into Ashland.
• 1:45:23
  And I just remember being like, this is what I've been doing for
• 1:45:27
  a long time. I'm almost done.
• 1:45:31
  And I started crying and I was like, that was great.
• 1:45:33
  Now you. Start crying.
• 1:45:34
  At all I didn't, sadly. Next time.
• 1:45:38
  You're like I wanted. The yeah, I don't think so.
• 1:45:40
  I don't think I quite did, mostly because I'm like because
• 1:45:43
  I'm really good at sleeping. There's a couple times I came to
• 1:45:45
  the aid station, I was like, hey, I needed a 10 minute nap
• 1:45:47
  and I would literally, I just like crawled into my sleeping
• 1:45:49
  bag and went to sleep for 10 minutes and they're like, hey,
• 1:45:52
  it's time to wake up. And I was OK, I'd like got up
• 1:45:54
  and left. Dang, wow.
• 1:45:56
  So. Sleeping can be a superpower.
• 1:45:59
  Sleeping. Yeah, I think.
• 1:46:00
  Sleeping is your superpower. Sleeping is so sick.
• 1:46:02
  I would love to sleep like that too.
• 1:46:04
  It's. It's like a, it is.
• 1:46:06
  It's a superpower and I think I'm like lucky, but it's also a.
• 1:46:11
  It's useful, but not super useful, but it's a cool.
• 1:46:15
  It's nice to be able to be like, oh, I can just like, sleep right
• 1:46:16
  here. Cherish it.
• 1:46:18
  Yeah. Cherish it.
• 1:46:19
  Yeah. For real.
• 1:46:20
  This morning I was like, I really want to sleep in awake at
• 1:46:22
  5:00. Yeah, well, that's that's the
• 1:46:23
  other thing. Like I'm good at sleeping, but I
• 1:46:25
  also wake up at 6:00 every day. So I was like, hope I'm awake.
• 1:46:30
  Like I tried to sleep in too and I was.
• 1:46:33
  Like yeah, I can't anymore either, but.
• 1:46:36
  Anyway, but I can go to sleep like that.
• 1:46:39
  Do you have any advice for somebody?
• 1:46:41
  I mean, you're one person that obviously you have created this
• 1:46:46
  lifestyle. It didn't come from the
• 1:46:47
  childhood. What's your advice to somebody
• 1:46:50
  that is coming from the big city or something and they're they're
• 1:46:54
  drawn to the outdoors in some capacity and they would just
• 1:46:57
  want to get in it and get going. What would you say to how to
• 1:47:00
  start? I say if you're in college or
• 1:47:05
  you live in a college town, a lot of colleges have some kind
• 1:47:09
  of outdoor program or club that does a lot of trips.
• 1:47:14
  Like that's a like without that, I don't think I would have been
• 1:47:18
  able to like navigate how to do it.
• 1:47:20
  And like a lot of them, if, if you are a student, there were
• 1:47:25
  like trips that you could go on like like 10-8 day Rio Grande
• 1:47:29
  trip that I was talking about, like it was like $150.00 for
• 1:47:33
  students because it was, because it was subsidized through like
• 1:47:37
  your tuition and all that. And so like utilizing those,
• 1:47:43
  those things that are, you know, maybe in your town or in your
• 1:47:46
  school or something is super important.
• 1:47:49
  And a lot of people are like, well, how do I get into rafting?
• 1:47:52
  Like there's a lot of whitewater clubs around, a lot of Facebook
• 1:47:57
  groups. They some of the tricky parts of
• 1:47:59
  those are like, I don't really know you and we're doing this
• 1:48:02
  sort of dangerous thing like you have to like you, you learn a
• 1:48:05
  lot, but like it's tough to get into.
• 1:48:08
  It's tough. It is tough to get into.
• 1:48:09
  Or like finding, finding some kind of like club or
• 1:48:12
  organization that does the activity that you're interested
• 1:48:17
  in or maybe even just like like adjacent to what you want to get
• 1:48:22
  into. You're like, oh, I really wanted
• 1:48:24
  like like long trail backpacking sounds fun.
• 1:48:28
  How do I do that? Like I don't like go find a like
• 1:48:31
  birding club that goes hiking and like meet some people that
• 1:48:36
  enjoy being outside first to like try to find a way into the
• 1:48:41
  next kind of piece. Usually one outdoor person knows
• 1:48:47
  another outdoor person that knows another outdoor person.
• 1:48:50
  So you may start talking to a birder, but they know somebody
• 1:48:53
  who does who goes backpacking and then they know somebody who
• 1:48:57
  does multi day backpacking or you just kind of build on the
• 1:49:01
  network. Yep.
• 1:49:03
  Yeah. So it's really is about like who
• 1:49:04
  you know or you can like get can, who you can get connected
• 1:49:08
  to and like sort of putting yourself out there.
• 1:49:13
  We're a little bit of a yeah, courage to yeah, yeah.
• 1:49:16
  Go seek. Yeah.
• 1:49:17
  You can't just be like, Oh, well, I'd get into backpacking,
• 1:49:19
  but I'm just gonna sit around and do nothing.
• 1:49:22
  And maybe somebody who likes backpacking will come and find
• 1:49:25
  me here. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:49:26
  Chances are pretty low. Yeah, that's something that I
• 1:49:29
  grew up with, backpacking with my dad, and I've been wanting to
• 1:49:34
  get back into it more. Yeah, as my adult, because
• 1:49:36
  there's been obviously a huge years and years and years of gap
• 1:49:40
  and like I'm starting to trickle in some.
• 1:49:43
  I've been so hyper focused on bikes.
• 1:49:45
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. But like the, you know, Sierra,
• 1:49:47
  she's like a solar solo backpacker and she does stuff
• 1:49:51
  and she's like, we should do a trip.
• 1:49:52
  And then I have a few other little friends that, you know,
• 1:49:55
  you potentially and like some other people and I'm like, I got
• 1:49:58
  it. Like that's on my list.
• 1:50:00
  Probably not this year, but like list, you know.
• 1:50:02
  Yeah, Yeah. But it's hard because I'm like,
• 1:50:05
  and just last year I tried to nail my dad down like, hey,
• 1:50:07
  we're going to do like a little backpacking trip, like a three
• 1:50:10
  mile in with the kids. Like let's do this.
• 1:50:13
  You know, he's like, yeah, let's do it.
• 1:50:15
  And then like, come on, dad. Like, you know, it's a little
• 1:50:18
  harder. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:50:19
  To nail it down even even when you do come from parents of big
• 1:50:25
  outdoor people like I, it's hard.
• 1:50:27
  Like my dad is constantly in the outdoors and doing something
• 1:50:30
  along the outdoors. But it's hard to like, find that
• 1:50:34
  time where our ship sinks and magic happens and we're out
• 1:50:39
  there together doing it. Like I had to just book a
• 1:50:42
  fishing trip. That's the Tyler episode because
• 1:50:45
  I couldn't nail my freaking dad down to go.
• 1:50:48
  Take me fishing. In the dirt boat.
• 1:50:50
  I'm like God. But magic happens every once in
• 1:50:53
  a while. It's just hard.
• 1:50:54
  So yeah, you know. Don't be discouraged.
• 1:50:56
  Just keep. Keep seeking, keep asking, keep
• 1:51:00
  exploring, and something will line up and connect you to the
• 1:51:05
  activity. You want?
• 1:51:06
  OK I'm gonna put this out in the universe.
• 1:51:07
  I would like to do a lower rogue trip this year.
• 1:51:11
  My parents have a couple planned out, but like, they didn't
• 1:51:14
  invite me. That's rude.
• 1:51:17
  Well, I don't have a boat. Yeah, but and I don't passenger.
• 1:51:20
  I know. And I don't have a lot of like I
• 1:51:23
  don't have a lot of time on the oars.
• 1:51:24
  Yeah. So I don't feel 1000%
• 1:51:27
  comfortable. Goes goes passenger and learn
• 1:51:30
  from there. We'll see.
• 1:51:32
  Also, it has to be like divine timing with the schedule with my
• 1:51:36
  husband. Yeah, yeah, because he's having
• 1:51:38
  children, the kids. And so it's got to be like.
• 1:51:43
  Yeah. Perfect.
• 1:51:44
  Perfect. Twist the titty of the universe
• 1:51:46
  to get it to work. That's my news I love.
• 1:51:50
  That that's. Super funny come.
• 1:51:52
  On Super Funny. Are you let me?
• 1:51:54
  Stimulate you universe. Yeah, Mother Nature is like
• 1:51:58
  whoa. Okay, make me happen.
• 1:52:02
  I'll do anything you want. Yeah.
• 1:52:04
  Should we wrap up here and do it a quick little tour of the the
• 1:52:08
  double wide site? Yeah, yeah.
• 1:52:10
  Cool. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:52:11
  We'll say our goodbyes there and stuff and like our closing.
• 1:52:14
  Yeah, cool, let's do it and. You'll get to see a little
• 1:52:16
  action cuz they're. Well, let's close out the pod
• 1:52:19
  here real quick and then, and then we can go over there for
• 1:52:22
  the blog, the YouTube. Yeah, sweet.
• 1:52:24
  So So what else we like to ask our our folks here at our sit
• 1:52:28
  down is 1. Where can people if you want to
• 1:52:32
  be found on the Internet, people are interested in learning more
• 1:52:35
  about you learning more about NW rafting company.
• 1:52:38
  Where can they find you or it? Yeah, I'm not super active on
• 1:52:43
  social media, but the best way to like see what we're up to at
• 1:52:48
  Northwest anyway is just our Instagram.
• 1:52:53
  I think it's like Northwest. I think it's just Northwest
• 1:52:56
  rafting it. Might be NW rafting it.
• 1:52:58
  Might be NW rafting. We'll check it below.
• 1:53:01
  It'll be changed. It's.
• 1:53:01
  Changed a couple times, but yeah, we we're pretty active
• 1:53:05
  posting trips we're doing and things we got going on.
• 1:53:08
  Great place to follow along with that.
• 1:53:11
  And two, it's fun to like see all the different trips we're
• 1:53:15
  doing and see the guides. Like that's probably where
• 1:53:17
  you've seen Brody. You're like, oh, I know that
• 1:53:18
  name because he's probably been in a bunch of pictures.
• 1:53:22
  Or he's popping up on my Facebook friends you might know
• 1:53:24
  or something. Yeah.
• 1:53:25
  Yeah, yeah, follow on on on Instagram, check out our website
• 1:53:31
  nwrafting.com. We also have a website called
• 1:53:36
  Whitewater Guidebook. And it's kind of the original
• 1:53:41
  sort of goal was to like have it be a resource for every river in
• 1:53:45
  the world. If you wanted to go float it,
• 1:53:46
  kayak it, raft it, sit by it, fish it.
• 1:53:49
  And so it's got a bunch of like it's not a guide, but it's like,
• 1:53:53
  hey, here's put in, here's takeout, here's some Rapids,
• 1:53:56
  here are the flows to go at. And it's also we try to put out
• 1:54:02
  a blog like every week and whether it's a gear review or
• 1:54:05
  something or like some kind of write up on on like river
• 1:54:13
  etiquette. Also tied in with that is Zach's
• 1:54:18
  gear garage show on YouTube and like podcast.
• 1:54:22
  It's all part of kind of that universe.
• 1:54:25
  So it's a good river I. Didn't even realize Zach had a
• 1:54:27
  podcast and we should get. On mostly it's a YouTube show
• 1:54:30
  OK, cool. And so it's all like YouTube and
• 1:54:32
  it started as his like way to get better at public speaking.
• 1:54:36
  And so he does like gear reviews and little like river lessons,
• 1:54:40
  which are pretty cool. And and then he that kind of
• 1:54:45
  grew and all of a sudden we started getting all these like
• 1:54:48
  questions through the info account at Northwest.
• 1:54:51
  And those are now just he does a live show like he tries to do it
• 1:54:54
  once a week and the summer it's a little more sporadic cuz he
• 1:54:57
  just like answer stuff and he's up.
• 1:54:59
  There pretty much full time in Hood River.
• 1:55:01
  He's in there full time. Yeah, he.
• 1:55:02
  Doesn't he doesn't come down a time.
• 1:55:04
  Come down a couple times during the summer, like he might come
• 1:55:06
  down in a couple weeks, but and he was just down here for the
• 1:55:10
  Illinois season. Will you put in a good word for
• 1:55:12
  us? Yeah.
• 1:55:13
  Try to get on like. When he's when he's coming down
• 1:55:15
  here next, I'll let you know and see if you can he can squirrel
• 1:55:19
  away some time cuz he I think, I think he enjoys doing stuff like
• 1:55:23
  this and I think he'd enjoy it and he's, you know, a long time
• 1:55:28
  river person guide outfitter business owner, like he's got a
• 1:55:33
  lot of like. I love that.
• 1:55:34
  Fun and interesting insights and he's a like a a niche YouTube
• 1:55:41
  sensation. Hell yeah, I love.
• 1:55:43
  That. We're trying to.
• 1:55:45
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
• 1:55:46
  And yeah, yeah. So.
• 1:55:48
  Super fun cross collab. Let me a good cross collab
• 1:55:51
  situation. Yeah, well, awesome.
• 1:55:53
  Thank you so much. For one final question.
• 1:55:55
  Yes. Yes, yes.
• 1:55:57
  So, Michael, Yeah. When your body expires and your
• 1:56:01
  soul moves on, yeah. How would you like people to
• 1:56:04
  remember you? I think there's this this part
• 1:56:13
  of me that I want people to Remember Me, but I don't need
• 1:56:17
  that many people to Remember Me, but those that do just to be
• 1:56:25
  like, oh, he was a pretty mellow, relaxed person that had
• 1:56:30
  some influence on me, but wasn't like wild and in your face about
• 1:56:33
  it. Love that.
• 1:56:34
  Yeah. Wasn't Billy?
• 1:56:36
  Yeah, wasn't it? Wasn't naked.
• 1:56:38
  Helicopter. Billy.
• 1:56:38
  Helicopter Billy. We love Billy.
• 1:56:40
  Yeah, but it but like, Oh yeah, like I, you know, had some
• 1:56:45
  influence on people, but not in a like in your face way.
• 1:56:50
  So. Low pressure, high reward, yeah.
• 1:56:54
  Yep. I would because I'm attest to
• 1:56:56
  that. That's definitely how I'll
• 1:56:58
  remember. You.
• 1:56:58
  I'm pretty, I do remember. You I'm pretty introverted and
• 1:57:03
  so, yeah, I think that he's the people that do know me or that
• 1:57:07
  have interacted with me at least have like a little piece of
• 1:57:10
  like, oh, that was cool. I'm like glad that I like have
• 1:57:13
  that interaction with that person or with him or whatever.
• 1:57:16
  Totally love that. It's really, it is really nice
• 1:57:18
  to go on an outdoor experience that perhaps somebody has some
• 1:57:24
  fear reservations around and the person guiding them, leading
• 1:57:28
  them is relaxed, is helping to temper that anxiety and fear
• 1:57:34
  with the cool, calm, collected vibe.
• 1:57:36
  So they can say OK, I don't. Need it to.
• 1:57:38
  Be Yeah, they're. Cool and calm even when it's
• 1:57:41
  bumpy, right? Yeah.
• 1:57:42
  I don't need to be like high on this like I can.
• 1:57:46
  This is easy. He's relaxed, I can relax.
• 1:57:49
  Like I remember one of the like a comment compliment, I was on a
• 1:57:54
  trip with this, this lady who had done a couple of trips with
• 1:57:56
  before and my sister was on the boat and it was just, it was
• 1:57:59
  kind of one of those quiet days. She'd been on my boat a bunch
• 1:58:01
  and like, you know, we chatted a bunch, but we also spent a lot
• 1:58:03
  of time just enjoying. And she said, my sister's like,
• 1:58:06
  I really like riding with your brother because he doesn't talk
• 1:58:08
  the whole time. And to me that's like as a
• 1:58:11
  guide, you need both of you'd be able to play both of those
• 1:58:15
  parts. And like, you know, I really
• 1:58:17
  enjoy when people can just enjoy and like sitting quiet.
• 1:58:22
  That's a. Name.
• 1:58:23
  When you can comfortably sit in silence with a friend, yeah,
• 1:58:27
  you're like, this is a true friend.
• 1:58:29
  And I feel so cozy and comfy just sitting in the car driving
• 1:58:33
  with you. But we're vibing, but we ain't
• 1:58:35
  saying. Great.
• 1:58:35
  Yeah, it's still. Great, and you can sit outside
• 1:58:38
  and just enjoy being outside. Listen to the birds, watch the
• 1:58:42
  wind blow through the tree, listen to the wind blow through
• 1:58:45
  the trees, watch the water flow and just be present in the
• 1:58:49
  moment and in the experience and not have to bring in extra
• 1:58:53
  stimulation. Yeah.
• 1:58:54
  Oh yeah, for sure. Well, on that note, we're gonna
• 1:58:58
  go tour the guide compound, the double wide.
• 1:59:03
  So check out the companion film to this episode on our YouTube
• 1:59:06
  and you can see the cool ass platforms, little tree houses.
• 1:59:10
  We're gonna go tour a little bit right now and just the extended
• 1:59:13
  version we're gonna hike down. Thank you so much.
• 1:59:15
  Yeah, yeah. Thanks for having me.
• 1:59:16
  It's. Super fun.
• 1:59:17
  Yeah. Thank you, Michael.
• 1:59:17
  Lovely time. We also like to.
• 1:59:19
  Squat in a deep squat so we can relax our bodies after sitting
• 1:59:24
  in these camp chairs. And yeah, let's have some Oreos
• 1:59:27
  with the deep. Squat Reddit film edited and
• 1:59:32
  produced by Heather White and Emily Brillant.
• 1:59:34
  The Go Wildly music is Rainmaker by Jared Masters.
• 1:59:37
  Special thanks to Michael Hughes.
• 1:59:39
  Recorded on location at Ferry Rd. in Grand Pass, Oregon.
• 1:59:43
  Thanks for listening. Please follow, like, subscribe,
• 1:59:45
  and of course share. New episodes drop every Friday.
• 1:59:48
  Remember to rate and review. Find us at Go Wildly Podcast
• 1:59:52
  everywhere. Yeah.