Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / Why We Chose to Homeschool and What Happened Next

Transcript

Why We Chose to Homeschool and What Happened Next · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Hello, Welcome to the Happy Families Podcast. My name's doctor
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: Justin Colson, and today on the pod the question we
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: get asked all the time, why do you homeschool? Today,
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Kylie and I answer that question and the research behind it.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: Stay with us. Hello, welcome to the Happy Family's podcast,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: where you get real parenting solutions every single day. This
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: is Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast where Justin and Kylie Coulson.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: I'm the author of a bunch of books about raising
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: happy families, and we're also the parents of six kids.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Oh and grandparents have a beautiful baby granddaughter. We received
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: this message from a Melbourne mum just recently and thought
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: it was a good topic for discussion.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: I was wondering if you could please give us an
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: update on your home school journey and how you got started.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: I'm very interested. I've actually gone over your old podcasts
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: from probably about a year ago and very interested to
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: hear how things are going. I'm sort of swinging from
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: one side to the other to where to take the
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: leap into homeschool and I really love to hear your perspective.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Kylie. I really would love to answer this question.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: I've got another of things that I've jotted down in
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: my notes. But I know that this is really your domain.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: You do most most of you do ninety nine percent
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: of the homeschooling. I get involved every now and again.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: I have some conversations, but really.
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: Is that the surf lesson?
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, I take it to other stuff. I'm involved.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: I'm involved. Gosh, that made me look like a bad dad.
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: So first of all, why did we start doing it?
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: Let's go through that, and then we'll talk about how
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: it's going.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: It's a conversation we've been having for more than ten years,
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: a decade easily, and I couldn't. I literally couldn't say yes.
• 2:00
  Speaker 3: And I look back now and wish that I had
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: of just Number one had the confidence in myself. But
• 2:05
  Speaker 3: Number two trusted that when we were questioning what was
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: happening for our children in the school system, that we
• 2:11
  Speaker 3: were actually right because with one of our children, particularly
• 2:16
  Speaker 3: who's now finished school, her experience, her education experience would
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: have completely changed as a result.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: So when we were having this conversation, there were a
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: range of factors that we were talking about. I'm going
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: to encompass several of them in one that I'm going
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: to call safety. So from a physical point of view,
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: an emotional point of view, there was when you're homeschool
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: there's no bullying, there's no school violence, there's no unsafety,
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: a dynamics, the kids can learn without anxiety and performance
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: pressure and comparison culture. I think it's really interesting. I
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: mentioned this in last week's pod, but bullying and school
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: refusal are driving Australia's homeschooling surge. It's up ninety two
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: percent nationally since twenty twenty. It's up one hundred and
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: sixty three percent in Queensland. So those issues were were
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: right at the top of the ladder for us, and
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: also things around neurodivergence, like schools are designed for neurotypical brains.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Two thirds of homeschooling families have a child who has
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: a disability or health issues. And the great thing about
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: homeschooling is you can tailor the pace, you can tailor
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: the environment, you can tailor your expectations to the actual child.
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: So we saw that and thought there's definitely an opportunity
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: for us to serve our children better by doing that.
• 3:25
  Speaker 3: And it's interesting. When I sat down with Emily at
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: the end of last year, to ask her whether or
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: not we should continue homeschooling we've been doing it for
• 3:33
  Speaker 3: now just over two.
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: Years, or do you want to go back to a
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: big school, a real school for like what it was
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: a great grade six this year, and.
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: The things that she shared, she rattled them off without
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: a second of thinking. It was literally she loves the
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: fact that I'm her teacher, that she only has to
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: do about two hours of school every day, so and
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: there's so much flexibility around when that learning schedule takes place,
• 4:00
  Speaker 3: and she gets to do it in a familiar environment
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: like home. That she has beautiful friends that we've made
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: in the homeschool community. She gets to have regular catch
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: ups with them, not just outside of school. We're trying
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: to squeeze it in between all the extracurricular and family actually, so.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: We can literally give them a call and say, hey,
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: are you free on Wednesday? We thought we might get
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: the kids together for four hours.
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: But there is lots of free time for her to
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: be creative, and there's more time available for her to
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: actually earn money. Like those were things that really jumped
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: out at her.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, there's not much that I can add to that.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: It's a really nice list. There's more self directed learning,
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: is what I had on my list, So that aligns
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: with autonomy and self determination theory and at Foster's intrinsic motivation,
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: not compliance. It's more flexible, like you're going to go
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: overseas with them on a little bit later this year
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: for a couple of weeks, and that's going to be
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: a homeschool study trip, and you can do homeschooling while
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: you're there. But also the experience that you're going to
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: have with her is just amazing.
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: You're jealous, aren't you.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because I'm staying here so that I can go.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: I had a whole lot of schools during the school
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: term and give talks to parents, which is an important
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: thing that I do as well. I don't know if
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: we've talked about the extracurricular opportunities, but there's so many.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: There's so many, and you've got the space in the time,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: Like you're not doing this crazy panic rush between four
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: point thirty pm and six thirty pm.
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: I hadn't even really thought about that. But because there's
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: so much space around her learning, she actually enjoys the
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: process so much more.
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. So there's some of the
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: reasons that we decided to kick on and do it,
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: And maybe the biggest one for me is just the
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: freedom from the academic pressure. Like she's not worried about
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: naplan results. She's not worried about having to sit down
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: and do a school test or anything like that. I
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: know some people say, well, kids should get used to
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: that stuff. I disagree, Like, why why do they need
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: to do it? There's nothing like that happens in the workplace.
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Like if you're at work, nobody's saying I need an
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: answer to this, and you've got five seconds to give
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: it to me, right, Like you can google stuff, you
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: can talk colleagues about things. And when you do get
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: to a point, let's say you're a surgeon or a pilot,
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: Yes you do did know stuff, of course, but.
• 6:06
  Speaker 3: You leave motivated to learn at that point. That's right.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: You're an adult. You're learning it, and then you go
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: and do it and you practice it. It's a totally
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: different context. So they're the reasons that we did it,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: and there are no regrets. It is hard. It's really
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: impactful on your life, particularly like it takes away your freedom.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: You don't have that time during the day that parents
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: whose kids go to school have but anyway, for the
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Melbourne mum, they're the reasons that we started it and
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: they're the reasons that Emily loves it as well. After
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: the break, I've done some digging. I've got data. I've
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: got actual data on how homeschool kids do compare to
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: kids who go to school. It's coming up next. Stay
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: with us, we're back. This is the Happy Families podcast today. Homeschooling.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: Is it good for kids? Is it not good for kids?
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: How's it working out for us? That's the topic of conversation.
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: I am really curious what does the research actually say.
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: It's hard to find good research because homeschooling is so varied.
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: And that's been my experience in that every homeschooling family
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: I meet, there is no two families that do it
• 7:14
  Speaker 3: the same.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Everyone's doing it differently. Everyone's doing it and there is
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: one particularly big brand called Yuka that is probably the
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: dominant syllabus or curriculum here in Australia. So there are
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: a lot of people who are doing that, but they
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: still do it their way. Like, there's so much variance
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: in how people do it, so which.
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: In and of itself suggests that there's no one size
• 7:35
  Speaker 3: fits all for children, right and families.
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: And so I can't find any evidence that homeschooling is
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: quite unquoite better or the traditional schooling is quite unquite better.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: And I think that's a really important point to make.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: Why is that, Well, I've already mentioned the variation in
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: the way that people do homeschooling. Some people are doing
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: like a rigorous classical education and bringing in tutors, and
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: the children are doing piano when they're doing jiu jitsu,
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: when they're doing all.
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: The things lessons exactly.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: And other families are like, we're unschooling. There's no rules,
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: the kids can learn what they want when they want,
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: so that makes it challenging. There's no standardized testing, Like
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: it's very very very rare to find homeschoolers whose kids
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: are doing naplan. There's a lot of self selection bias
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: as well in the data. And I know I'm sort
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: of geeking out on this, but it's really important to
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: highlight why this is tricky. So families who homeschool are
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: already kind of different, like they've got more flexibility. Quite often,
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: not always, but quite often, they'll be more involved in
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: their children's lives. That they'll often have more resources because
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: it really does require at least one parent to be
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: actively full time engaged with the children, and.
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: Or they're actively choosing to go without.
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: Right, yes, exactly, which we've discussed on the podcast before,
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: certainly something that we've stepped into. So here's what the
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: research does show. First off, when it comes to Australian data,
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: the homeschoolers who do do naplan, and I know I
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: said most don't, but there are some who do. And
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: the homeschoolers who are doing naplan because their parents are
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: heavily involved and they do want to make sure the
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: kids aren't quite unquite falling behind. They score seventy marks
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: higher on average seven zero. They are scoring really really
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: well on NAPLAN, And again there's a selection bias in that,
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: so I'm not sure how much we can take from it.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: But the other thing that I found was some US
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: data which showed that homeschooled kids in the US are
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: scoring fifteen to thirty percentile points higher on standardized tests.
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: So there's also the social emotional outcomes and they're quite positive, right,
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: So international surveys show that homeschoolers do not have any
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: social deficits versus traditionally schooled peers. There's no evidence of
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: worse mental health outcomes, and some studies actually indicate that
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: there is better self concept with homeschool kids and lower anxiety.
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: So I think that that's really interesting data and the
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: longer term outcomes. If I was to summarize it in
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: one sentence, I would say that long term outcomes are encouraging.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: What do I mean by that? Kids who are homeschooled
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: attend university at similar or higher rates to kids who
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: go through a traditional schooling pathway, and there's no evidence
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: anywhere of career disadvantage. Some studies actually show that homeschooled
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: kids are more entrepreneurial, they have an advantage around their
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: creativity in starting businesses and that kind of thing.
• 10:20
  Speaker 3: So what I'm taking from all of that is that
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: there actually isn't any clear data at all.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: I think that that would be a misrepresentation of what
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: data we do have. The data is mixed, but it's encouraging,
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: is how I would say it. So we don't have
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: research proving that homeschooling is academically superior. I can say
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: that categorically, but I will also reverse that and say
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: we don't have any research proving that traditional schooling is
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: better than homeschooling, either.
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: From our personal experience in homeschooling, in traditional schooling, and
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: even your schooling experience. I mean, you finished high school
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: in the bottom fifteen percent of the state. You were
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: pretty much a high school dropout for all intensity purposes.
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: I really did not attend classes. Yes, and yet you
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: sit here with years and years of experience and education
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: under your belt because there came a point in your
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: life where you were motivated to learn. And I think
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: that happens for most of us at some point in
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: our lives. We're motivated to learn. And when we're motivated
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: to learn, learning is so good, like we enjoy the
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: process even when it's hard, because it's so good and
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: we want something. And if I was to go back
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: to my ten years ago when we started the conversation.
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: And we still had six kids in school back then.
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: I wish that I had of known that making that
• 11:54
  Speaker 3: one decision was not set in concrete. It didn't lock
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: us into a decision. If you want to do homeschooling,
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: give it a go. It's a massive learning curve as
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: a parent taking on that new responsibility and working out
• 12:09
  Speaker 3: how you and your child work together. But if it
• 12:12
  Speaker 3: doesn't work, you just go back to school.
• 12:14
  Speaker 1: We've got some friends who did exactly that. They gave
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: it a crack. Wasn't working for them. Kids back at school,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: no dramas, no harm, no foul, Everyone's happy.
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: And I'd be lying if I didn't say that. At
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: the beginning of this year, I kind of was hoping
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: she might want to go back to school because I
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: kind of would like my life back.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, But the more I thought about it, and the
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: more I talked with her about it, it's just to know.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: So we need to wrap this up. Let me share
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: the last of the evidence. Okay, So the evidence shows
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: that motivated, engaged parents are going to produce good outcomes
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: for their kids, regardless of the method of schooling that
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: they use, whether the homeschool or whether they're doing distance education,
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: or whether in a traditional schooling path or some kind
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: of hybrid. Motivated engaged parents generally produce better outcomes for
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: their kids, full stop. Had a story. The evidence also
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: shows that one size fits all systems do fail a
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: lot of kids, especially the neurodivergent kids, and the evidence
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: is also there that school related anxiety and bullying and
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: mental health issues are real and growing and are the
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: primary driver of the exodus from the school system into
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: home schooling and our lived experiences You've just so eloquently shared,
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: and I'll just really quickly summarize as we sum up,
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: is that traditional school wasn't working for our kids, and
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: we watched them struggle with anxiety, We watch them lose
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: their love of learning. We watched them come home exhausted
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: and stressed, and there were days where we literally carried
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: them to the car kicking and screaming in their pajamas
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: and said, you need to go to school today, because
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: that's what people do, they go to school, and we'd
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: get them to the car park. I'm getting emotional thinking
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: about it, and we would literally force them into a
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: place that they didn't want to be, and it was
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: torture for them and for us.
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: And I have to add the only place they didn't
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: want to be, yes, Like literally we didn't have that
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: experience in any other settings. So it's not like it
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: was setting them up for failure because they just didn't
• 14:07
  Speaker 3: want to be somewhere. This is the only place so
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: that they were struggling.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: So at home, I would argue and this this is
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: not an apologetic argument for homeschooling. I'm not trying to
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: say this is what you should do, but Melbourne mum asked,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: and this is this is our position right now for
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: our children. We've found that at home they're safe and
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: they're learning what's exciting them. We've got an enormous amount
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: of flexibility, they've got time for passions. And homeschooling is
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: certainly not for everyone, like it's just not. But the research,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: while it doesn't show that it's academically superior, it also
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: doesn't show that it's any worse. And for our family
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: and for our kids for now, for now, absolutely the
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: right choice. Okay, thanks so much for listening. Thanks to
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: the question. We love your questions. You can send them
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: through two podcasts at Happy families dot com dot You
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: send you a voice note through there, or just jump
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: onto the website happy families dot com dot you scroll
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: down to where it says podcasts and hit us up
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: their questions there. We love them coming through. Happy Families
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: podcast is produced by Justin Roland from Bridge Medium. Mim
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: Hammonds provides research, admin and all of the other support
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: that we need for the pod and if you'd like
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: more support for your family, you'll find it on our
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: social media pages or at happy families dot com dot au.