Latest / The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast / The Enneagram Four and Authentic Identity | A Four's Wholehearted Journey with Janay Lanier

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The Enneagram Four and Authentic Identity | A Four's Wholehearted Journey with Janay Lanier · The Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: I repeated back to myself what I just said to her at the park date, and I said, That's not much of a seven thing to say there, Janae.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I I'm thinking further into it, and I said, That sounds a lot like a four.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_03: I that's that was the last number I wanted to be because I in my head, scores, it just didn't work out with my life, you know, and how I grew up, and it wasn't gonna keep me safe to be a four.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's quite exhaust.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's actually exhausting to think you're a seven and to run from it versus to know.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_03: So interesting.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_03: This is actually me.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's okay.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_03: You're not being fake.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_03: You just didn't know certain things, and now you're learning and you're growing.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_03: And so you were never fake, so let go of any of the shame that you you have.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_03: Probably the enemy is trying to sprinkle in some shame some shame there, but you just didn't have all the information.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the wholehearted Enneagram Podcast, the Enneagram for real life.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Here is where you'll find conversations where faith meets story and strategy for lasting transformation.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Amy Wicks, here to help you find wisdom and wholehearted rhythms for moments that matter most.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you're learning your type or deepening your spiritual formation, these conversations will remind you that the Enneagram shines a light, but Christ is the transformation.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Well, Janae, for the friend who is getting to meet you and get to know you for the first time, I think you need to start off this conversation with the story of what has happened to your AirPods because this kind of tees us up really well for what life is like for you on a daily basis.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, my two-year-old, which is the middle child and fits every stereotype that you would put on a middle child.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: And we love her and she keeps our life so exciting.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: But she put my AirPods in the toilet and flushed them.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just in the toilet, but which they didn't fully go down.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: We have the AirPods, but they do not work.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so not after that drowning.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: No, and my husband does have a pair, but he forgot to leave them.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, I was Amy.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: Do you think the sound will still work?
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's great.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's great.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: And my friend listening knows that I've been struggling a little bit in our new place, finding good sound as well.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it's been a journey, especially I've been recording the audiobook for my new book coming out next month, which is so fun.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so I've been, yeah, it's been a it's been a journey.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so anyway, well, Janae, I'm excited to have your story shared here at the end of the Enneagram for month.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: We've had Deanna share about the four, not only in general, but her personal experience and some of her story was just beautiful.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: We had Sarah Hagerty give a little bit more insight on a four, but also through the lens of limitations and grief and her life as a mom of seven kids and some of that journey.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: And then we had Sonia come on.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: Sonia Scotts, another wholehearted coach.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: She's a four.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so we talked about the victim, villain, hero guide journey, the story work that is part of the wholehearted framework and guide by the side experience.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: So today, I love the thought of you giving us the like the gritty, the honest truth about you thought you were a seven.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: And since we've gotten to have a session, so we haven't had a session with this new information.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it's almost like a live session, but you exploring this Enneagram four and going, ah, I think there's something new here.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for your yes, for your willingness to do this in real time.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_03: You're welcome.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_03: Only for you.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, okay, we're gonna, we're gonna talk this through.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, you're right.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_03: It is like it's a live.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_03: We have not, for any listener listening, we have not talked about this beforehand.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_03: This is the new.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: And we had a phone chat last week and we just kept missing each other.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you started in, and I thought, this is I don't know, it'd been 10 minutes.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought, I am sad this is not being recorded.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so I stopped you and I said, listen, trust me, trust me that I've got your back, that what I want is the true story and not rehearsed or scripted.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where I want to start is at the beginning.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Give us a little bit of the the span where you felt like I lead as a seven.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: And what did it feel like when you were living inside that framework?
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: Which isn't it's the seven is part of your story.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's not, it's just not the entire story.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: So give us a little insight on that.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_03: So you want to start where the moment where I discovered you want to start there or yeah, or even you, how many years you lived with the idea that you thought you were a seven?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because you and I have had some conversation on the podcast.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: We've done work together.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: You are a coach as well.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that's been part of the the lens of conversations that you've even had.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I feel like if you look through my whole life, like it absolutely looks like a a seven.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like I, you know, definitely the energy, the loving, the spontaneity, the the adventure, the definitely the energy.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_03: And so, you know, so much of that.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, the I feel like very joyful, the energy in the room.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_03: You know, carrying the room, I feel like is a big thing for a seven.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you kind of come in and you do carry the energy oftentimes.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, um, so looking back on my life, like you can see that fully.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_03: And you you started to see that a little bit less whenever motherhood came in.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious, and I know I know we had a conversation a long time ago, but has anyone else ever suggested that maybe seven wasn't your primary type?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: What did the did you ever have an inkling before your revelation, which I don't know the full revelation yet?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: So this is the mystery unfolding in real time.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: But did you ever have someone go, huh?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if seven is really your your dominant type.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_03: I definitely never really second guessed it much.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: Or if I if I ever did, I buried it very quickly because I love sevens and I I and I loved that I was a seven.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_03: And um, the only I actually asked John afterwards, my husband, I said, Did you ever not see me as a seven?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_03: And he said, not necessarily, but I did have times where I would say to myself, I feel like emotionally you, because sevens are are emotional as well, but you would stay in there in that state for so long and almost like not want to get out of it.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought, and he would say everything I know about a typical seven, you know, that's a bit interest interesting, but you know, he said, I didn't always think about it too much further after that.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_03: But so I thought that was interesting to hear from him.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's and that is an interesting delineation because I know I've said it before, but there's a lot of similarities about fours and sevens in their emotive ability, right?
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: The and if you are a more gregarious, outgoing four, it can look very similar.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: And if you and if on the flip side too, if you're seven who struggles with maybe some depression and life circumstances, some trauma, there can be that flip side where the seven, the true seven maybe is experienced a little bit as a four.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: So all of those are are very valid and worth considering.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why the Enneagram at first blush seems incredibly simple and straightforward.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: And boom, get your number.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: But as you and I know, there's many layers to our story, and it's um yeah, there's there's a lot more to that.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm for you, what was the moment that the seven narrative wasn't ringing true anymore?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Was there a season or conversation where something was shifting that you go, oh, I don't think that's the full story?
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was a very sudden moment, actually.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_03: It definitely wasn't like a shift.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, looking back on it now, I can see where, and we can talk about that later.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_03: I can see moments of like, oh yeah, that it started to not be as easy to mask as a seven.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but it was actually a moment a friend and I were actually getting together to kind of hash out a bit of disagreement that we had, and like healthy friendships do, we were we were getting together to talk over some miscommunication and and you know, we're talking it through.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I and I said to her, I said, I feel like I often just feel anything, I feel so safe with you that I feel the need to almost constantly bring up any feelings that I'm having, that if something feels off, or you know, if I have any questions or if I have any concerns, I feel the need to always bring them forward to you, possibly, possibly too much.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and I remember her just saying, Well, why do you think that?
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know why the question stopped me in my tracks a bit, because even say even as I was saying that, it was a little bit of revelation, like interesting.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_03: But then when she said why, it took me a second.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, I think that I do that for a few different reasons.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_03: I think if I ever feel even a little bit misunderstood, I need to talk this through with you.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_03: I need to, I need to feel understood.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: And that was the first time really ever saying that out loud.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: And then second, I think this was like a moment where I was like, wow.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_03: But I I said, I think I, I think I'm constantly testing the waters of is this friendship safe still?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_03: Is this friendship like I want to feel connected with you so much?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I almost feel connection through the if any disconnection I feel of like a misunderstanding or this is feeling off, or I don't, I think we miscommunicated here.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: I want that connection to happen again and I want to almost see, I want it to feel safe again.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_03: And so I'm bringing, I'm bringing things forward quite a bit.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: And we were at the park with our kids, and I remember in my head a little light bulb going off where I was, you know, because she didn't, she was just like, okay, I I hear you.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_03: And that was the end of that.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: But I remember in my head thinking, I think I need that.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_03: That was interesting.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: Interesting thought there, Janae.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I get in my car, uh-huh.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I get in my car where I'm able to have another, you know, minute my kids are falling asleep, and it's it's quiet in the car.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, I repeated back to myself what I just said to her at the park date, and I said, that's not much of a seven thing to say there, Janae.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I I'm thinking further into it and said, that sounds a lot like a four.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_03: And it's almost just like a million light bulbs starting going because I do know the Enneagram, and I and I've coached and I've and I've coached fours, and they've actually been some of my favorite people to coach.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_03: And but I, anyways, I just had so many light bulbs going off with different, it's like lines going, shoo, shoo, shoo, shoo.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_03: That is awesome, and yeah, and I would think uh.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_03: And then I went home and really just started diving in and yep.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: Including, so John, did you ever think we did a in-person retreat January of 23 down in Texas?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: We did our first iteration of Enneagram out of the box.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a a resource I'd still love to fully develop because we used some kinesthetic materials, some, you know, like actual physical things to play out our Enneagram types or really the how do we get to the real essence of who we are by diagramming, communication patterns, and decision making and and all of that.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it was, it was such a great insightful tool, I felt, with the women in the room, because most of them I knew and had done work with.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: But I remember at that table, you were at the end of the table, and you're using using this resource, and you're asking me a question that I'm going, that doesn't fit a seven.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so interesting.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: And it was in that moment that I thought there is more to this story.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: And what's really great is you were giving the clues that the withdrawing pattern was actually your go-to communication pattern.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: And the decision making was very much wrapped up in significance and heart.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: But for you, I think even in that language, because I think the four appeared, you're like, that is, I know I am not a four.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like there is just no way that I could be a four.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just giggle at that very clear memory in my mind.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: That was almost four years ago.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: And yet this is the story that has unfolded.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, what would you even say in that moment?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you remember that memory or you have that, but where was some of the resistance even for you of going, I no, I'm a seven.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Besides liking being a seven, was there something about the four that you're like, ugh?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to be that.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I I I that's that was the last number I wanted to be because I in my head, fours, it just didn't work out with my life, you know, and how I grew up.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_03: And it wasn't gonna keep me safe to be a four.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, like fours in my mind were messy and just a little bit too um just too messy.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_03: And and and now where I'm standing here today, it's obviously there's so much beauty in fours.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: And but in my mind, it was just this is it's too messy to be this number.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: This is not gonna work out well.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_03: So interesting.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_00: Tell tell me too, and I'm pulling on this thread again, coaching in real time, because this is the question I would ask.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: You've used the word safety a lot, which safety is very important for the head types, the five, six, and seven.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: Thread this out for me in light of significance being of most importance for the two, three, and four.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: How does the safety and significance interplay?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: Or what does that exchange and primary motivation look like, even when you're talking about safety in relationships?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: How and somatics are nuanced and sometimes messy because we bring in our understanding around those words or our negative experiences, even.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: So just tell me how the that lands for you or where significance actually is the better word, but the safety is also propping it up in the in the background.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_03: If we're talking about childhood, that is where we're kind of that's where the word kind of comes from.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_03: But I I it was never okay to be too much or too little.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_03: And and and so I felt I I learned, and that's why it's you know, if you look at it was so easy to mask as a seven.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_03: Like a seven was what fit best in my family for me.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_03: It was what was gonna keep everybody most happy.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_03: I I and I heard that a lot growing up, was and and I like to preface with my mom and dad did the best they could with what they know.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_03: I've always loved to honor them.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I I have the gift that my mom has even come back so many times in my adulthood to say, gosh, I would have could have wish I could have done it different.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_03: I love you.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so sorry.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_03: I've gotten the apologies.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_03: And and and so hard, and I'm and that's a gift.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: And but yeah, you guys are so close.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: Beautiful, beautiful relationship.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I I like to preface with that.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_03: But there was a a lot of I I heard often, you know, um, you are just my happy person.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: You are just, you know, thank you for being my happy girl.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you for, you know, the chaos of life.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_03: I know I can count on you to be my joy, my lots of that.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_03: And then, and and just lots of also, if I was too much, I would I was I remember just these watermark moments of hearing it from so many adults to, you know, I to calm, you know, just to calm me down, or that's too much, or you know, that's the message I was hearing a lot as a child.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: Or, and if I was maybe not maybe sad or mad, that was not okay either.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_03: I had to go back to being the happy, the energy in the room, but I couldn't have too much energy because that doesn't fit what the adults are wanting either.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: But and so it's like it totally it was so easy for me to mask as a seven, um, looking back into childhood.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_03: So I feel like that's where the word safety comes from, if that makes sense.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_03: Um absolutely.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_03: It was just gonna keep me safe in my relationships.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_03: If you know, even through my middle school teen years, I can I feel like it kept me safe where I learned, even if it wasn't even truly who I was, I learned kind of the ground to stand on, at least to fit in most.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_03: Or, you know, if I can, if I can stay in this middle ground, even if it doesn't feel like who I really am, then at least I'll be accepted by most people or I'll fit in with most people if I just stay in this little not too much, not too little bubble in that middle ground.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_03: Cause yeah.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's I think that is an interesting theme that I've heard.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll unpack two things here.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: One, I relate in the sense of I've shared, I've I used to wonder if I was a three or two.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: That is kind of what our where I gravitated to quickly.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think growing up in a pastor's home, the two, the helper, it's needed, it's wanted.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_00: I was the firstborn, all of those elements were true.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: But underneath that, the seven was the longings, the core desires, all of that element was really navigating the story with this overlay of who I thought I needed to be.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: But then to that point where for you, the kind of the thread that I want to continue to pull is this the misunderstanding, the wanting to fit in.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so shifting a little bit in order to find your place.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think we all do that as kids.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: We're all looking for our place, even if we have healthy attachment, all of that.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: But it seems like for the four in particular, the theme I've heard again and again is I and almost like you could be what others needed, not quite like the chameleonosa three, but also wanting to find that special place, your people where the belonging, the desire to belong was a core theme.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_03: That's it.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and whenever you want to talk about it too, Amy, it you really motherhood is what pressed fully the the four out of me.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: There was no more room to mass the seven.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_03: So yes.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, tell tell us that.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think for you, very similar experience where for me it was a moment of stress where the aha and epiphany happened, where it was that was the catalyst to, oh, this is not true anymore.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: This is really the ache behind the scenes.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: You are entering the world of being a mom of three girls, beautiful, precious girls.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Where was some of that pressure where you're thinking, yeah, this what was it that made it break off?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think all of our types are a mask at some level.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's just sometimes we put on behavior patterns to be acceptable.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's not really the core longings here, but the behavior patterns of the seven is what would be received well.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: My for me, behavior patterns of the two and three was was way more acceptable.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: So where was motherhood pressing on that and really breaking it down, which is is a good thing.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: In the end, that is the work.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm so thankful for it.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's it wasn't always a fun process per se, but you know, you hear the quote often, you know, our our God gives us the children and and their personalities and their traits often will to bring to teach us, it's to refine us, right?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_03: To refine us.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like a good quote for me when we're talking about motherhood is motherhood didn't turn me into someone new.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_03: It gave me fewer places to hide from who I already was.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is brilliant.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, that's that's that's it.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_03: Motherhood didn't turn me into someone new, it gave me fewer places to hide from who I already was.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_03: And so I what I mean by that is before kids or even just having Sage, my oldest.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_03: If you know, you know.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's it's what you have her, she was five when you had Leighton, right?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: Do I have the she was four?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_00: She was four.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: She was four.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a span of just one kid that so if you know, you know.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, sure.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, wow, I am a great mom.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_03: Like, motherhood's so easy.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_03: I am a great mom.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you are a great mom.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_03: But so what I mean by that is, you know, my life had be I was it was easy to wear the seven.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_03: The I already knew that, you know, I was so familiar with wearing them.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Mask of a seven my whole life.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_03: I had little responsibility.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_03: I had a flexible schedule.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_03: It was easy to resort to starting a new hobby and traveling and except et cetera when life got messy or stressed.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: And you simply can't plan a last minute trip or take a new hobby, you know, while having the schedule that I have now.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's just not possible.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think like my kids and motherhood forced me to strip away the versions that I had built for myself over the years.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: It brought me to my deepest, it brings you to your deepest view and to the surface.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_03: And so motherhood brought out the emotional intensity.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I dealt with postpartum depression for the first two.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_03: Praise Jesus.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_03: I did not deal with that with my last with Chandler.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but you know, it brought out the longing to be understood, the tendency to compare and feel deeply and question who I was.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_03: Like all of that was brought to the surface in motherhood.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I can't book a trip.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_03: I can't go on a weekend get away.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_03: And so that was what really started bringing out yeah.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Those pieces.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, tell us a little bit about that because whenever someone is quickly asking me about their type, or you know, it's this dinner conversation, dinner party conversation.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: I try to make sure that they know at the end that to take the time to explore the core longings and desires and fears of that type.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: And when those ring true, you've landed in the right place.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: You're wearing the right foot.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: So can you give us a little bit more about that language that landed in you've hinted at it here, but where you go, oh, that that has been the true narrative in my relationship with my parents, my sister, those I love.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: John, you and John met early, early on.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Give us a give us a little bit of insight on how that has been the conversation behind the scenes, really.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll frame it with for the fours, they desired to be seen and love for in their uniqueness.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: The fear is that there is something missing that is impossible to put back or together or to manufacture because the authenticity is so real and the drive for that is so real that it's challenging sometimes when you're trying to fit in and prove that you don't have this missing piece, and yet you have to be fully you, otherwise you're being incongruent and disingenuous.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of that juxtaposition and that pull for a four that especially manifests in relationships.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_03: So I feel like this question might fit in right here, but I wonder, Amy, like I've always said how much I hate negativity and being pessimistic.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_03: And is was that always just me actually projecting because my insides felt so pessimistic sometimes?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_03: And um I felt so the the if I felt sadness, it felt all-consuming.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_03: And it so I almost wonder if I actually like throughout childhood wanted to run away from those emotions or people, or maybe anybody that's typically more of a negative person or more pessimistic because it was actually something that I so badly wanted to be able to outwardly show myself, and it you know what I mean?
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_03: Like it almost annoyed me to see others that could outwardly be that way safely.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that is okay.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: So where that would make sense to me, and again, we're this is coaching in real time.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: The way that would make sense is a self-preservation for.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I know Deanna, that is her, we've talked about that at times where the question I think she used the language.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm trying to remember what she said in that conversation because she had a turn of phrase that I thought captured the struggle for the self-pressed for in particular, because the emotions were all consuming, and yet emoting felt so challenging.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where the safety piece even she would say she didn't feel safe to express it, the depth that she felt it.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: And part of that would confirm that there was something missing or wrong with her that would create the rejection she so feared from others in the emotion and herself.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas for me, the I have had moments of depression for sure.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: I've had moments of sadness.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: But my I'm not afraid to show them.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: I just I'm going to avoid them.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to do everything I can to run the other direction and just ignore them.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't feel jealousy that others express emotion.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: I sometimes want to avoid it because if they are expressing it and they are living in it, then it might bring me down.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: I also don't know what to do about it.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this is 25 years ago, Amy.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: I've grown a lot, learned how to stay in it.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: But that is some of the hardest work I do with my coaching is sitting with people and really hard things.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: I that that is a drain to me.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas for you, there's something about like, I think you are able to receive it better.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: But tell me how that has played out in those differences for where you thought you were in the mask to what's really going on behind the scenes.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, first off, I love it.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_03: It's almost life-giving to me.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_03: Just to even think like how I, you know, growing up, I really could be so surface level and um, you know, almost just fine, like carrying on a conversation about the weather with people.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_03: And now what I really actually long for and love is like when I sit down with somebody for coffee, can we already get to how your soul's doing and like stay there?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like, let like how are you doing?
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_03: How is your walk with the Lord today?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_03: How are your are your kids driving you nuts this week?
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_03: Tell me about it.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like, let's talk about the deep.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's just, it's almost given me, you know, and I don't care to have the 15 friends large friend group anymore.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_03: I don't, you know, that those are some ways that I see, you know, I I don't think I ever really wanted that growing up, but I felt that I needed to do that.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_03: I felt that was what I was supposed to do almost.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: And so there was this constant like battle between who I really was, but who I thought I needed to show up for everybody, exactly how you you said.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_03: And and so that that's a a way, and looking back on it too, I was always, I always wanted to be so unique.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_03: But again, I I oftentimes felt the need to let somebody else have the spotlight or and just really hide, you know, who you just blend in basically.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_03: And so, man, just looking back on it it throughout my childhood, like how much freedom do I have now that I have discovered this and now I fully embrace being a four, and it's so beautiful in so many ways.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_03: I want to be unique to a point that it's almost annoying, probably.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_03: But I doubt it.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_03: But it's you know, I yeah, hopefully that answered that question, Amy.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know why it was a bit tricky to put that into words, but I guess you're wanting me to reflect on growing up, how I could really see the four in my life.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_03: It was that mainly the question you were asking.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I I think for you, it's again, it goes back to the core desires and longings, and how does that really match up?
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because that matters.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: That that helps you tell the fuller story.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think also in that sometimes it's other story or experiences that give help give the illumination.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: And again, we I where I want to take a moment here before I have you answer this is when we talk about Enneagram, I don't usually in a podcast or I haven't done a lot of teaching about the fact that we have a paradigm, which is the tri-type of Enneagram, where there is a dominant type in each of the intelligence centers, the head, heart, and gut.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're probably where I would guess for Janae, for her, the dominant type in the head type is the seven.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: But for her, the dominant type for the heart is the four, and that's her primary type.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: And your primary type always gives the language for your desires, your longings, your core fears.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas the other types might, you might look a little bit like them.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: You might have some of the character traits because where you thought you should be or how it you thought you're supposed to present similar to me, I thought I needed to be a two.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: It was very culturally acceptable.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: That two, three combo was easy to act out in while all the time the core desires were the seven.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I I hope that is helpful for a friend listening who's maybe been confused about their type or struggling with the differences or wondering where they thought that was simple, but it's not quite fitting correctly.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, in that framework, again, as I'm just trying to do the live conversation of coaching and give the framework for you listening and hear, hear what we're not saying as well.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: But going back to that for you, Janae, was there a podcast or a conversation with a four or something that gave you help confirm or give language that you didn't have before or that you didn't necessarily even read, but you're like, that's it.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: That has been my experience this whole time.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_03: I wouldn't say I can't pinpoint one podcast or you know, anything like that.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_03: I can say, like you we were talking about, so the hearing the the childhood message of a four to not be too much or too little versus a seven, um, you know, to really only find safety in yourself or really only rely on yourself.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um taken care of.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_03: Totally a four.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and I can remember sitting down with John and and going over the core longing, the fear, the all the things of a four.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_03: And he's like, How did we miss this?
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_03: You know, all it did give the language, the language for the four absolutely is what my heart felt and why the behaviors, you know, it was it was all really the what describes a four and what a four is feeling versus the seven.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_03: I I can't think of a, I mean, I will say I I don't know if you know, well, yes, you know the song Landslide by Fleetwood Mac.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_03: But that song, when I was, you know, start starting to learn step into the four role myself and and and starting to discover that I was a four, I was listening, that song came on and I was listening to it, and I just started weeping.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, I mean, which landslide can make anybody weep.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_03: Come on, it's like Fleetwood Mac and I love their music.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_03: But, you know, I I actually went, and this is such a fourth thing, but I went and I deep dived into why Stevie wrote that song.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_03: And she was actually like personally, she wrote the song saying, I took everything I had emotionally, I had invested in my life, I put it, I sat it all down in front of myself, and now I'm looking at it honestly.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I felt like that was kind of what I was doing, like in that moment, stepping into it for I was setting everything down in front of me and looking at it honestly.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, is this actually who I am?
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_03: Or is this actually what makes sense to me?
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think that it just really music always speaks to me.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_03: And and and I think that's why worship has always spoken to me, even at a young age.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: I've always loved to worship.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_03: I will get on stage in a heartbeat and just I am authentically 100% myself when I put that mic in my hand, and it's just me and the Lord.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, looking back on it, I think that's why the stage always felt so safe to me because there was no like no performing.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's just me and the Lord, and it's such a safe place, and and I'm so grateful for worship, and you know, because looking back on my childhood, I was able to have those moments of being, you know, I I don't I feel like I have a lot of moments looking back on childhood saying I was fully authentically myself.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: I felt so safe to be me, but that is a spot that I can look and say, oh, that was that was me, that was me.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's just such a beautiful, and it's still that that way to this day.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_03: And even though I'm learning now, and as a mom, and and just somebody in their going into their mid-30s, you just honestly start to care less about what others think in general and stop caring so much to fit in, and you you're fine with the smaller circle that is just really real people, women just showing up who love the Lord, and you want that to be your inner circle, but yeah, that's I think that's one reason that worship has always just been so precious to me.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: I love that the genuineness.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I want to talk about two more things as we wrap up here because you just mentioned it.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: You're a mom of three littles in your mid-30s.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: Who has time for the self-awareness journey?
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Even connecting on a phone call, doing coaching, all of that, there's not a lot of margin.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so I imagine some of your friends who are in similar circumstances, there's not a whole lot of time.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so it begs the question, why?
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: Why say yes to this work?
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: Why even care about the Enneagram?
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: What is the benefit?
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: You've talked and hinted at a few things, but I think the two primary, maybe missions and why I'm doing what I'm doing is that I think when we are oriented to the map of our life and where we're starting from, we can understand where we go.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: But most important, what does it look like in our connection with God?
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: You just hinted worship being fully you, worship being communion with God, giving praise, gratitude, emoting, all of those elements.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, how has understanding the lens that you've looked through and really the gifts that God has given you from the very beginning, your superpowers and your strengths, how's that shifted your relationship with the Lord?
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then last but not least, how about your relationship with John, your husband, who at this point, or I think he's a two and still there.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: Those are two really big elements that from a lot of those places, life flows and is directed.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I think spiritually with the Lord, like I remember whenever I was first like gonna step into the role of putting on the the four the shoes of a four, and it was very scary to me because fours felt very messy and just it was really gonna disrupt some things.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I really had to have a moment with the Lord where I was like, you know, God, you know, when I was when I was discovering that I was a four ride, I truly had to remind myself like if I'm too much or I'm not enough for everyone, He still sees me, He still accepts me, He made me this way, and it is beautiful, and He sees the beauty in it.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_03: So I had to really fully, fully just embrace that first, and then I felt the bravery to step into it myself of this is who I am.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_03: And that's whenever it really shifted from feeling very scary and actually something I didn't want to be or didn't like to actually saying fours are amazing and seeing so much beauty in it.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_03: But I first I first had to have that moment with the Lord really truly of like, God, if this is who I am and I'm gonna put my hands up and you're gonna help me walk, walk this, walk in this path to being truly who I am called to be.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_03: Because when I get to heaven one day, I don't want to say I I was trying so hard to fit into the world and and be who the world wanted me to be.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_03: I want to say I really knew myself and I knew who God had created me to be so that I can walk all you know authentically in the into what he has for me.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_03: At the end of the day, where he can say, Well done, you had your eyes on me, and you know what I mean, and not worried about what will this look like?
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_03: Well, what what if this is too you know, but no, you and I and that I draw I can now say that I fully dropped those the seven shoes off per sap, put them by the door and they're not coming back on my feet.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like I don't care if it's too much or too little, you know.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_03: I yeah, so I hope that makes sense.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, and and and I just knew I I was just gonna say, I people God knows my heart and my intentions and my character.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_03: And those who are who have good intentions and who love me are all they know me.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_03: They know my heart and they know my intentions and they know my my character.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_03: And so that is that's who I'm gonna, I'm gonna walk this out, and that's who I'm gonna be.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so, and with John, I think it's just given us so much more language.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_03: There's just so much beauty in it.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_03: And he loves, and when it when he found out, he was like, Yeah, he loves it.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_03: He there's so much depth to fours, and he's a two.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_03: And he was like, Okay, here we go.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like now we're talking.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: This is making because you guys have been together how long?
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're both young, young, but yeah, so like 20 years.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yes, so yeah, and so we've done so much growing up together, and and I can't, I I mean, I've said it before, but I cannot give enough like gratitude to what what the Enneagram started for us, the conversations that it started.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, him finding out he was a two was just life-altering.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_03: And the yeah, and so it just now figuring out I'm actually a four has just given us so much language, and just it's been beautiful.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_03: And really, too, just being able to fully accept that I do have really deep emotions and that it's okay.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's interesting.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: That is so much freedom.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, there's gotta be so much freedom around that.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_03: I don't have to run from it actually.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_03: I can just stink and sit in it for a minute and actually just let myself and know that it's okay.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not, it's not wrong for me to sit in this.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's okay, it's gonna be okay.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, and that's just how I'm wired, and that's just how I'm built, versus it feeling I let the shame go.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like I had some shame around feel feeling that many emotions, and also feeling like the need to know why.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, the reason I even we first got on a Zoom call from the very beginning was because I needed to know the why behind a situation that was gonna drive me insane.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_03: And the situation's still the same today.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the the needle's not moved on that situation.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_03: However, like I I'm not crazy for it's just how I'm wired to need to know the why.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_03: How how do I fit into the situation?
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we just have so many questions around it, and you need to know how do you fit in in that situation?
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_03: What does that say about me?
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_03: Who am I?
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, all the questions, but I it's okay.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_03: I don't run from those questions or feel shame about it.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_03: I can actually just say, like, it's okay for me to have these questions, and I just like sit longer with it with the Lord now rather than just feeling such a shame script when I felt the seven, like I shouldn't be having these thoughts and these feelings.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_03: And it's quite exactly it's actually exhausting to think you're a seven and to run from it versus to know so interesting.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: This is actually me.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: Gosh, Janae, I think so much about your desire to speak on the struggle with shame.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: That has been a passion in your heart for a long time.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: That I love to see what the Lord does, but it gives more context to know why that was a fire in your belly or why it is a fire in your belly to break off the shame from other women.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: Where it's because it's been way more personal than I think you even had language for.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: And this is part of the Lord weaving that story.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to say a few things for our friend listening.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: One, I hope that this gives a better glimpse of what coaching actually looks like.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's not the neat, tidy conversation you hear on the podcast.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: Even though I share conversations with clients, it is more like this looking for words, finding language, tell me more.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: The the going back and forth.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I I just want to give, yeah, some life to that going, hey, this is really what it looks like.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: So don't think that you have to have it figured out or the answers before you start coaching.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's the gift of coaching, is to find language.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then for you, Janae, I'll just say that for a long time we've talked about some of the call on your life.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's it goes above and beyond the goodness and the beauty of motherhood.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: There is more that I know you know you're called to.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I just want to celebrate or just demonstrate, even here, how that more that's going to happen down the road, whether it's a lot of speaking on stage and some books, I have a sense.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: But let it let our hearer go.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: But what Janae has had to learn in these last few years, what you could speak on five years ago to what you're going to be able to speak on in five years, looks radically different, way more interesting.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Impactful depth, richness, beauty, because you're living this out with some framework that is creating greater freedom for you.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, this is this is where I just want to go.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is the gift of the Enneagram.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, language for you and John, the connection with the Lord, being fully who you were created to be, and just orienting yourself, smack dag in the middle of like, ah, this is who I am.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: So I just, I so appreciate Janae, what you've all been willing to share here and tease out in real time, not having neat, tidy answers.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: I never want to give that appearance of perfectionism or having all together for this whole hearted journey.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: The element is we bring all our broken-hearted pieces.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: We bring the true messiness of ourselves, not to revel in it or to stay there, but to go, okay, this is who here I am, who I am.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: These are the things, Lord, help us sort it out.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for being willing to do that.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: Before we do a final goodbye, though, is there anything that you didn't get to say that you want to make sure our friend hears as we sign off?
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, give me a second.
• 45:08
  unknown: Yeah.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: I know you had a lot of notes, but we we really worked it out in real time.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like maybe just ending it on giving some encouragement to the listener that even thinks that they might be.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_03: Have I, am I the number that I felt that I am for so long?
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_03: Or, you know, if this is bringing up some questions to some listeners, I would say I'm really big on giving, you know, advice on giving grace, or I'm really big on telling other women, encouraging other women to give themselves grace.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_03: You know, working, working on taking that, you know, for myself.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_03: But I love sharing that with other people to give yourself grace because you don't know what you don't know.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_03: And you know what I mean?
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like looking back on it, you know, at my life, I was like, how did I not know these things?
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_03: But you just don't know what you don't know until you you do begin to to learn more.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_03: And so you were doing the best with what you could with the information that you had and what you knew.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_03: And so you were to myself, I have to say, I was never being fake.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_03: Like, yes, yeah.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_03: I just you're you're not being fake, you just didn't know certain things, and now you're learning and you're growing, and so you were never fake.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_03: So let go of any of the shame that you you have.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_03: Probably the enemy is trying to sprinkle in some shame, some shame there, but you just didn't have all the information.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so yeah, that's something that I would love to leave to leave to someone listening that might be yeah, and freedom takes time, and we are born into a lot of captivity.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's the reality.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: The our sin nature, a world full of sin and hurt and pain and shame.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it takes a minute to be fully free to who we were meant to be.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: And even that, we're all speaking from a place of we are still saying yes to the work every day.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: I remember don't arrive.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_03: Deanna, I think, said on the last podcast you guys did together that she's I think she essentially said that she's a lifelong learner.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I I resonate to that so much.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like I've not hit, I I I I love the idea of always continuing to learn more about ourselves and walking along, like walking with the Lord hand in hand in that.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and so yeah.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's a good one.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: Janae, thank you.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for your yes, thank you for doing this.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it was so good to hear the story.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for having me on.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_03: It was so fun to to podcast with you again.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much for joining me for the Wholehearted Enneagram Podcast.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: If this conversation spoke to you, please share it with a friend.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: You can also visit simply wholehearted.com to take the free Enneagram quiz and also get your personalized podcast playlist specific for your Enneagram type.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: And remember, friend, your starting point doesn't have to be your stuck point.