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With Great Power #274... 22 Panels with Terry Moore · 22 Panels - A Comic Book Podcast

• 0:00
  Matt: I actually…
• 0:02
  Terry Moore: I gotta go, guys.
• 0:07
  Tad Eggleston: Good evening, everybody! Welcome back to 22 Panels, where Matt and I have already scared Terry Moore off. He was gonna tell us all sorts of stuff about his Kickstarter, and then Matt started to talk about possibly using
• 0:21
  Tad Eggleston: hygiene products to draw something, and was gonna say, I've got access, because I've got a wife and two daughters, and then decided.
• 0:30
  Tad Eggleston: Decided not to, but I… I'm that friend.
• 0:33
  Tad Eggleston: it for you, Matt.
• 0:35
  Terry Moore: Oh, Matt.
• 0:38
  Tad Eggleston: I'll send Bell the link tomorrow.
• 0:41
  Matt: Fair enough.
• 0:44
  Tad Eggleston: Hey, Terry, how's it going?
• 0:46
  Terry Moore: It's going good. Going good.
• 0:48
  Tad Eggleston: It's going good. You're back at Kickstarter, another wildly successful one, as you're at only $75,563 out of your $25,000 goal, with 3 weeks to go. I mean…
• 1:05
  Tad Eggleston: Money for the other guys, Terry.
• 1:07
  Terry Moore: I'm hoping that we get to 1 million,
• 1:11
  Terry Moore: Our 20th stretch goal, if we get to a million dollars, is everybody gets a pony.
• 1:17
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, I mean, okay. I'll get my wife on, on, like, just plastering Instagram, and, and telling everybody that if they get to a million dollars, you get not just a comic, but a pony.
• 1:32
  Terry Moore: Yeah, no, I didn't say if it was alive or how big it was, but yeah.
• 1:36
  Matt: Oh, damn.
• 1:36
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, even if it was just a Terry Moore hand-drawn pony sketch, I think most people would be happy with that.
• 1:43
  Terry Moore: Oh, well, thank you very kindly.
• 1:45
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, and I know you can draw horses now, because you did it for trigger warning.
• 1:50
  Terry Moore: Yeah, I did. I had to… you know, and horses and cows are famously hard to draw. You notice a lot of artists will go straight to the… to the buzzard or the raven, but a horse… oh, that's for later, you know. Horses are hard, because they don't work like us.
• 2:08
  Terry Moore: You keep wanting to put human legs on them, and they look… now you've got a fantasy story. Looks weird.
• 2:13
  Matt: That's why anyone that drew Western comics back in the day has my utmost respect, because that's not something I would want to do.
• 2:22
  Terry Moore: No.
• 2:23
  Matt: Yeah.
• 2:25
  Terry Moore: And they're bidding.
• 2:27
  Terry Moore: frame. Where are you going to put that horse? He can't always be 20 feet behind us.
• 2:31
  Matt: Exactly.
• 2:34
  Terry Moore: They gotta think it through, right? Yeah.
• 2:36
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah? All the… like, these are the ways that you and Matt think that…
• 2:42
  Tad Eggleston: I only think about when somebody happens to have done it really, really long and published it anyway.
• 2:51
  Tad Eggleston: And even then, I generally go, but I get the story, and that looks like it was hard to do.
• 2:58
  Terry Moore: They tried.
• 3:01
  Tad Eggleston: It was a valiant effort.
• 3:03
  Matt: Yeah.
• 3:05
  Tad Eggleston: So, Terry, give us the front counter pitch for, how to draw, and tell us what's new about the 2026 version.
• 3:13
  Terry Moore: Okay.
• 3:14
  Tad Eggleston: Since you did call it Terry Moore's How to Draw 2026.
• 3:17
  Terry Moore: 2026.
• 3:18
  Tad Eggleston: And please tell me 2026 is way prettier than 2025.
• 3:23
  Terry Moore: Oh, yeah, I hope so.
• 3:25
  Tad Eggleston: From Europe?
• 3:26
  Terry Moore: to God's ear.
• 3:28
  Terry Moore: So yeah, the new book is, I…
• 3:33
  Terry Moore: Okay, the original guy, this guy, Look how thin it is.
• 3:38
  Terry Moore: I think it's, like, 140 pages, yeah.
• 3:43
  Tad Eggleston: Yep.
• 3:44
  Terry Moore: about 9 chapters, 8, 7 chapters. Anyway, it kind of did an overview of everything I do, my routine, and what I focus on in terms of, like, how to draw women, body language, expressions, things like that. The new one.
• 4:00
  Terry Moore: That book's been long out of print. It came out 5 years ago, and it's been out of print for years. So I want it back on my shelf, and I want it out there for people.
• 4:10
  Terry Moore: So I thought, well, okay, let's update it again, and…
• 4:13
  Terry Moore: I've added a lot more material that's like, you know, 50% is bigger again, you know, more pages, and, chapters on inking and Art Nouveau and things like that, and update all the art throughout it.
• 4:28
  Terry Moore: just kind of make it modern. And I had to go in there and start looking at the text, because the text was saying things
• 4:36
  Terry Moore: that needed to be updated. Like, I would say, now, George Perez uses a Haunt 102 pen, or whatever, and I thought, no, he doesn't. Not today. I have to change that language, and so…
• 4:51
  Tad Eggleston: George Perez used…
• 4:53
  Terry Moore: used to use.
• 4:54
  Tad Eggleston: Sadly.
• 4:54
  Terry Moore: Yes, very sadly. So, I'm going through there and, you know, editing, copy editing, all that, and updating everything, and
• 5:02
  Terry Moore: Some things are silly, like, oh, you can find that at your nearest art store, but people, you know, just go online and buy it much… they don't have to hope that their art store has it. You can go online to an art store in St. Louis or something, they have it.
• 5:18
  Tad Eggleston: Sent to you, so…
• 5:20
  Terry Moore: Things like that. Update it, so it's good for 26 and beyond.
• 5:27
  Tad Eggleston: At least until 27 or 28, when you decide that, like.
• 5:32
  Tad Eggleston: Do you need another successful Kickstarter?
• 5:35
  Terry Moore: No, if I do another Kickstarter after that book, it'll be a story. And I have an idea in mind that, you know, the last Kickstarter and this one, I'm doing a single-issue comic. So the last one, I did a Strangers in Paradise one-shot.
• 5:50
  Terry Moore: This one, I'm offering a Rachel Rising one-shot.
• 5:53
  Terry Moore: And then I'm gonna come up with another book for Kickstarter, but it's gonna be story stuff, and that one's gonna have an Echo one-shot, and then I'll do a Motor Girl one-shot and a Parker Girls one-shot, and then collect all of those one-shots together in one anthology, like a short collection of James.
• 6:12
  Tad Eggleston: See, see, see, like… Don't get me wrong, I think that plan is good.
• 6:20
  Tad Eggleston: But the more lucrative plan, comic fans being what they are, and needing the best version.
• 6:28
  Tad Eggleston: If, instead of doing that, Once you had all those one-shots out.
• 6:33
  Tad Eggleston: You brought out the new, revised, hardcover, complete
• 6:39
  Tad Eggleston: Strangers in Paradise, including Trigger Warning.
• 6:43
  Tad Eggleston: People like me, who'd spent $250 already, Would do it again.
• 6:49
  Terry Moore: Really? For one chapter?
• 6:52
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, you might have to add a little bit more.
• 6:56
  Tad Eggleston: But if it was, like, that chapter and commentary…
• 7:01
  Matt: No. Director's commentary.
• 7:03
  Tad Eggleston: I would have to at least really, really think about it.
• 7:06
  Terry Moore: I think we need to think bigger. What I would like to do is have
• 7:11
  Terry Moore: If you buy a new Ferrari, you get trigger warning.
• 7:18
  Tad Eggleston: How much incentive… And I don't want a Ferrari.
• 7:20
  Terry Moore: I'm… see, that's my problem. Nobody wants to buy a Ferrari anymore.
• 7:26
  Terry Moore: Ugh…
• 7:27
  Tad Eggleston: I don't want a Ferrari.
• 7:29
  Terry Moore: Upmarket.
• 7:30
  Tad Eggleston: I'm looking at this… this, Abstract Studio exclusive gallery edition of Strangers in Paradise, and that looks pretty.
• 7:38
  Tad Eggleston: But… a Ferrari? I mean, what would I do with a Ferrari?
• 7:42
  Matt: Yeah, you're in Chicago, just gonna sit in the garage half the year.
• 7:45
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, you can't read a Ferrari.
• 7:47
  Tad Eggleston: I wouldn't want to take it on the roads in Chicago, because, like, there are other cars that could damage my Ferrari.
• 7:55
  Tad Eggleston: And have you watched Ferris Bueller?
• 7:57
  Matt: I knew it!
• 8:01
  Terry Moore: That's one of my favorite movies, by the way, because I had a crush on Mia.
• 8:05
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, cute.
• 8:06
  Matt: Who did?
• 8:06
  Terry Moore: girlfriend ever. Just, she was happy to do whatever.
• 8:10
  Tad Eggleston: Right. Yeah. It's so… Matt, you gotta ask some drawing questions. You've read the old books. I mean, I've read the old books, but they don't make sense to me, because… I mean, they make sense to me as pretty.
• 8:23
  Matt: Pledge.
• 8:24
  Tad Eggleston: She read the old books and did stuff with them.
• 8:30
  Matt: I'm honestly more interested in knowing about, you know, what are your future projects? Are we gonna see new racial rising? I mean, that's where my head's at.
• 8:39
  Tad Eggleston: Well, I mean, we will certainly get to that, but we don't want to do any drawing stuff.
• 8:45
  Tad Eggleston: Terry does fantastic drawing videos on.
• 8:47
  Matt: He does, I've seen many of them.
• 8:49
  Tad Eggleston: That are almost like my ASMR. You have such a soothing voice, Terry.
• 8:55
  Terry Moore: Oh, thank you.
• 8:57
  Terry Moore: Yeah, I… I've been working real hard on my art, and yeah.
• 9:03
  Terry Moore: So… Years of study, and you can draw like me too.
• 9:07
  Matt: Nice.
• 9:08
  Tad Eggleston: Okay, I want you to send that to me now.
• 9:11
  Terry Moore: I'll send it to you as a high-res JPEG file.
• 9:14
  Tad Eggleston: That's fair.
• 9:17
  Matt: Terry, are you 100% physical media, or do you do anything digitally?
• 9:23
  Terry Moore: I… I make everything on the dorm board behind me. Old-fashioned.
• 9:29
  Terry Moore: Old school. I really adore that.
• 9:32
  Terry Moore: You know, asking me that question? It's like asking, do you… do you play, an old-fashioned…
• 9:43
  Terry Moore: Wood guitar, or do you just play synthesizers now?
• 9:47
  Terry Moore: You know, so that's what… I was gonna.
• 9:49
  Tad Eggleston: Can I ask you if you played rock band at all?
• 9:52
  Matt: Yeah.
• 9:52
  Terry Moore: Oh my god.
• 9:53
  Matt: Few button, free button.
• 9:54
  Tad Eggleston: Are you good with those buttons and the switch?
• 9:57
  Terry Moore: Yeah, the little melatronic flute things. Yeah, so I still love making pages on paper, and
• 10:06
  Terry Moore: my thinking on it has always been the same, that at the end of the day, I have that in front of me.
• 10:14
  Terry Moore: like something I could hang up on the wall or frame, and I… and it makes me happy. Versus…
• 10:21
  Terry Moore: If I work all day on a tablet, at the end of the day, what I have is a JPEG.
• 10:25
  Terry Moore: And, that doesn't… That doesn't make me happy at all.
• 10:30
  Tad Eggleston: Not until you go get a really good printer.
• 10:33
  Terry Moore: It's a really fast way to work. Digitally is a… it's a much faster way to work, you have a lot more options. So what I'm doing is actually kind of old school. It's like… it's like…
• 10:44
  Terry Moore: being a pianist who really specializes in Chopin or something. It's not the modern world, but I love it and adore it, so I do it. But when I do get that original page done.
• 10:57
  Terry Moore: This is 11x17.
• 10:59
  Terry Moore: Then I scan it and put it in Photoshop, and I'll do all the final tweaking and finishing in Photoshop in terms of, like, specs and measurements.
• 11:11
  Terry Moore: I can do… if I'm on a deadline, a lot of my correction work is done in Photoshop, whether…
• 11:17
  Matt: Next question.
• 11:18
  Terry Moore: Yeah, whiteouts, blackouts, or adding effects, like in Rachel Rising, the demons talk with inverted balloons that are black with white letters. That's just a Photoshop thing.
• 11:29
  Terry Moore: Stuff like that. Sometimes,
• 11:32
  Terry Moore: if I'm really on a deadline, in the wall, I may have
• 11:36
  Terry Moore: half-circle black and white wall. Ali, on the original art, that top half of the circle is clear. When I put it in Photoshop, I just paint-bucket that black right on there.
• 11:47
  Matt: Oh, sure.
• 11:48
  Terry Moore: So much faster. And then later on, if I'm going to sell the page, I put it back out on the table and get up my Q-tip and black in all that black area.
• 11:58
  Terry Moore: So, yeah, it's kind of a… I'm still working on Photoshop as if it's 1996, you know? But it's good to finish out in case.
• 12:06
  Tad Eggleston: I…
• 12:06
  Terry Moore: Ready.
• 12:07
  Tad Eggleston: I do have to ask a question, though, about one of the things that you said there, because, like, Abstract Studio is you, so, like, how do you wind up on a tight deadline?
• 12:18
  Matt: You're right.
• 12:21
  Terry Moore: Well…
• 12:23
  Terry Moore: I was pretty good with deadlines, even when I was… it was just me. But when my wife realized that I was making money, she got involved and turned it into a real business.
• 12:36
  Terry Moore: And once we got into a real business, it was about, staying on deadline, keeping commitments. So…
• 12:43
  Terry Moore: because I'm doing everything, I can't do a new issue every 4 weeks, so when I was doing all my books, I did them every 6 weeks, and that was all I could handle, because it would take me
• 12:54
  Terry Moore: You know, 5 weeks.
• 12:57
  Terry Moore: To get the pages made, and then a week to do, you know, the cover and the finishes.
• 13:03
  Terry Moore: And then it's time to do another one. And that's what I did for 30 years straight.
• 13:09
  Terry Moore: So, yeah, when you have other people depending on you, and the next issue is making the house payment, you have a deadline.
• 13:19
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 13:21
  Terry Moore: It's not a hobby.
• 13:22
  Tad Eggleston: No, I knew that it wasn't a hobby, I was just trying to figure out exactly how… because obviously it's a slightly different deadline in that you will not
• 13:32
  Tad Eggleston: Lose the job because it was given to somebody else.
• 13:37
  Terry Moore: True.
• 13:38
  Tad Eggleston: Losing the house is bad, so, like, if you're planning around, it needs to be out for the house payment.
• 13:45
  Terry Moore: I would rather that… there have been times I would rather they give the book to, you know, another artist.
• 13:51
  Terry Moore: I let him take.
• 13:52
  Matt: Home security and housing security are very…
• 13:54
  Tad Eggleston: With Rachel Rising, I mean, you know that you could hire people, Terry.
• 13:59
  Terry Moore: Hmm.
• 14:01
  Terry Moore: Well, we'll just leave that thought there on the table.
• 14:04
  Tad Eggleston: you could probably even hire them cheap. They'd go, I can draw… That?
• 14:10
  Tad Eggleston: for you? I mean, this is kind of, like, why I didn't understand why George Lucas didn't…
• 14:15
  Tad Eggleston: get the best up-and-coming screenwriters and directors to do the prequel trilogy, because, like.
• 14:22
  Tad Eggleston: Tell me that Quentin Tarantino wouldn't have worked for free to do Star Wars.
• 14:28
  Matt: called arrogance, I think.
• 14:30
  Terry Moore: The problem is, they walk in with their approach, and then when you see the final result, you think.
• 14:37
  Terry Moore: But that's not what I pictured. It's their… it's their vision, you know.
• 14:41
  Tad Eggleston: That I get. But then we go back to, you don't actually want to give up dry.
• 14:47
  Terry Moore: No, not… not really. I mean, it's… it's my tantrum, but it… I can't let it… I can't let go.
• 14:53
  Tad Eggleston: Like, if the three of us…
• 14:55
  Terry Moore: Went and saw a concert.
• 14:57
  Matt: We would come back with 3 different reports, you know?
• 15:00
  Terry Moore: you saw the visuals, you saw the music, and then I was looking only at the roadies, and I give a totally different story, or whatever, you know.
• 15:09
  Terry Moore: So that's how it is with making these stories, it's like.
• 15:13
  Terry Moore: Okay, you're gonna draw an issue of racial rising. Well, what I'm thinking of is…
• 15:19
  Terry Moore: Two things I'm always thinking of is.
• 15:21
  Terry Moore: All the visual storytelling should work without the script, so you could follow the visual and you would still get it.
• 15:28
  Terry Moore: But I also want to lay in Easter eggs.
• 15:31
  Terry Moore: For everything that's coming.
• 15:33
  Terry Moore: And so, if I want you to start feeling agitated, or… Pissed off?
• 15:39
  Terry Moore: I start putting little things in the scenes, in the background, that… Are unsettling, you know?
• 15:45
  Terry Moore: And I start working towards it, so that by the time you get to page 17, and somebody says something incendiary.
• 15:55
  Terry Moore: I've already tried to work you up into, you know, a little bit agitated before I even got there, you know? You try to…
• 16:04
  Terry Moore: Just like a… just like a movie, you know?
• 16:06
  Terry Moore: I look for things like that. And if I give a script to another artist.
• 16:10
  Terry Moore: They're just gonna draw the script. Here's a room, here's two guys talking, somebody put their fist through a wall, now there's an airplane, there's a balloon, the tree exploded. That's all I'm gonna get back.
• 16:21
  Terry Moore: I'm not gonna get all those little things in there that give you subliminal Stuff, you know?
• 16:30
  Terry Moore: Is that too much control?
• 16:32
  Tad Eggleston: No.
• 16:33
  Matt: No.
• 16:34
  Tad Eggleston: No.
• 16:35
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, again, I was just messing with you, because I would… I mean, on one side, I always love to see what great creators do with other people's toys.
• 16:47
  Tad Eggleston: Like, like, I enjoy it when… when there will be a pinup gallery at the back of Saga, or, like, Wes Craig with his… his Kaeya, like.
• 16:58
  Tad Eggleston: At the end of every story arc, he does one issue where he writes, like, three short stories for other artists to draw.
• 17:08
  Tad Eggleston: Or whatnot, but, but, like… At the same time, the idea of, like, too much of…
• 17:15
  Tad Eggleston: Francine, or Kachu, or any of my other beloved characters.
• 17:21
  Tad Eggleston: not.
• 17:22
  Tad Eggleston: looking exactly how I expect them to look would be… awkward.
• 17:28
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I have a love-hate relationship when the Hernandez brothers draw each other's characters.
• 17:36
  Matt: And it is so understandable. I get that, I feel that.
• 17:42
  Terry Moore: I'll give you an example of me working on somebody else's story.
• 17:46
  Terry Moore: characters.
• 17:47
  Matt: Like…
• 17:48
  Terry Moore: When I did a… Mary Jane's Spider-Man book.
• 17:56
  Tad Eggleston: I loved that book.
• 17:57
  Terry Moore: Thank you.
• 17:59
  Terry Moore: I made… I always held back in how Peter looks at Mary Jane.
• 18:06
  Terry Moore: Because in my mind, she's number 2.
• 18:08
  Tad Eggleston: Right? You're a Gwen Stacy fan.
• 18:10
  Terry Moore: Yeah, she's the rebound.
• 18:13
  Terry Moore: And… In fact, that…
• 18:14
  Tad Eggleston: That just… that reminds me, you were supposed to send Matt a Gwen Stacy sketch for him to ink, and us to make into a t-shirt for him.
• 18:23
  Matt: t-shirt, yes.
• 18:25
  Terry Moore: Really?
• 18:26
  Tad Eggleston: We agreed to that last time you were on.
• 18:29
  Terry Moore: I think…
• 18:30
  Tad Eggleston: That Gwen Stacy sketches out the wazoo. You just didn't feel like inking any of them.
• 18:35
  Tad Eggleston: And Matt said, I'll ink it!
• 18:37
  Matt: I did, my hand went up faster than Tad's.
• 18:42
  Terry Moore: I'm gonna make a note.
• 18:45
  Tad Eggleston: So I need a high-res digital scan of the little squiggly,
• 18:50
  Matt: That's true.
• 18:50
  Tad Eggleston: Which is true.
• 18:54
  Terry Moore: When Sketch to Matt.
• 18:59
  Terry Moore: Is it… you want a good one, or a really crappy one?
• 19:02
  Terry Moore: Your choice.
• 19:03
  Tad Eggleston: That'd be good?
• 19:04
  Matt: Whatever so we can chat.
• 19:05
  Tad Eggleston: Turn it into a t-shirt, and send you one, and we'll wear the other ones.
• 19:09
  Terry Moore: Oh, okay.
• 19:10
  Tad Eggleston: We would never sell it, it'd be 3 t-shirts, you, me, and Matt.
• 19:14
  Terry Moore: That'd be cool.
• 19:18
  Tad Eggleston: Did get my wife, her favorite emulsion for… for… Silk screening.
• 19:27
  Tad Eggleston: Like, stop becoming easy to get, and she's messed around with a couple others and not managed to, like…
• 19:34
  Tad Eggleston: Make them work the way she wants them to. So, like…
• 19:39
  Tad Eggleston: you send a sketch that Matt can ink, and I think that Kelly will… Commit herself to…
• 19:48
  Tad Eggleston: to figuring out a new set of tools for silk screening so that I can have more t-shirts again.
• 19:56
  Tad Eggleston: It's been a while since I got mine.
• 19:57
  Terry Moore: regularly.
• 19:57
  Tad Eggleston: Sure.
• 19:58
  Tad Eggleston: Birthday presents of just a slew of t-shirts.
• 20:03
  Tad Eggleston: She's spending money on me instead.
• 20:06
  Terry Moore: I could do it in black and white with,
• 20:11
  Terry Moore: Just, like, 2 or 3 color accents, like mid-century design or something.
• 20:15
  Tad Eggleston: See, that's harder, because she really only does one color, silkscreen.
• 20:19
  Terry Moore: One color?
• 20:20
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, that's why you…
• 20:22
  Tad Eggleston: pencil sketch, and then matte inking it to make it bolder, to make it easier to…
• 20:27
  Matt: Silk screen is perfect.
• 20:29
  Terry Moore: Okay.
• 20:31
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:32
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah.
• 20:34
  Terry Moore: or pink.
• 20:35
  Terry Moore: I'm making you a pink one.
• 20:40
  Tad Eggleston: I love it.
• 20:45
  Tad Eggleston: So…
• 20:48
  Tad Eggleston: You said that the next one is gonna be, original stuff. Are you already at work? Do you have ideas?
• 20:56
  Tad Eggleston: Are you willing to, to shout at all, or is it top secret?
• 21:01
  Terry Moore: Yeah, if you talk about it before it exists, you kill it.
• 21:04
  Matt: Yeah.
• 21:04
  Tad Eggleston: Well, I mean, if it doesn't exist, I get it. But does that mean that it doesn't exist in its entirety, or have you been…
• 21:13
  Tad Eggleston: like, because you just talked about deadlines, and one of the advantages of being you now, and having back catalog that you can put into new packaging and put on Kickstarter, is you can give yourself runtime.
• 21:27
  Tad Eggleston: Y-you know, you're not having to do as much new work for…
• 21:33
  Tad Eggleston: the stuff that you've had out on Kickstarter. So, have you been working on something that we're gonna get to see, or…
• 21:40
  Tad Eggleston: Or you've been taking a nice, much-needed break, because, like, the last time we talked to you, you talked about, like.
• 21:47
  Tad Eggleston: People talking about, like…
• 21:50
  Tad Eggleston: You gotta go see things so that you can draw them and whatnot, and you're like, when? I haven't… I haven't left my drawing table in 30 years!
• 21:59
  Matt: Yup.
• 22:00
  Terry Moore: That's true. Not leaving your drawing table is how you make deadlines, but…
• 22:06
  Terry Moore: But, I did spend, like, the last 18 months traveling. I've… taken… Probably 20 trips this year.
• 22:15
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 22:16
  Terry Moore: And, like.
• 22:17
  Tad Eggleston: But you earned them.
• 22:19
  Terry Moore: Learn them, but they take you away. And, you know, like, several of them were overseas, and then the same last year. I did the same amount last year.
• 22:28
  Terry Moore: So, a lot of traveling and all that.
• 22:32
  Terry Moore: Bye.
• 22:34
  Matt: Can I ask you a quick question?
• 22:36
  Matt: Has your travel schedule changed due to the political climate now, or just want to get back to work and get focused?
• 22:45
  Terry Moore: It was… the travel schedule was set at the first of the year, and it was daunting looking, and then, so…
• 22:52
  Terry Moore: I was doing it, and then by the time you get…
• 22:56
  Terry Moore: To the end of the summer, and you still have
• 22:59
  Terry Moore: 8 more trips to go between the summer and November, I'm thinking, God, let's just get through this.
• 23:04
  Matt: That's true.
• 23:04
  Terry Moore: moth,
• 23:07
  Terry Moore: So, yeah, it was just one of those things where, you know, the traveling all just kind of built up.
• 23:14
  Terry Moore: For some reason… one reason or the other. And, you know, a couple of them were really great, like, going back to Italy for, work and promotion, and then going to the, convention in Oslo, Norway was fun.
• 23:29
  Tad Eggleston: Nice.
• 23:30
  Terry Moore: Yeah, so getting…
• 23:32
  Tad Eggleston: Oslo.
• 23:33
  Tad Eggleston: One day.
• 23:34
  Terry Moore: Shoot?
• 23:34
  Tad Eggleston: of them, yeah.
• 23:35
  Terry Moore: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:36
  Tad Eggleston: I don't know them. My mom knows them.
• 23:40
  Tad Eggleston: She went… 30 years ago.
• 23:43
  Matt: Ever call ahead, grease the skids, you can go visit.
• 23:47
  Tad Eggleston: Well, I think my Aunt Janet's gone over more recently. We've got family in Oslo and family in Bergen.
• 23:53
  Tad Eggleston: My grandmother was 100% Norwegian.
• 23:57
  Terry Moore: Oslo… I was a little gobsmacked and intimidated because Easily half the people there
• 24:05
  Terry Moore: are tall and gorgeous, male and female. They look like Olympians.
• 24:10
  Terry Moore: That is the most…
• 24:12
  Terry Moore: wonderful-looking people I've ever seen. Half of them look like Olympians, and the other half look like,
• 24:19
  Terry Moore: Like, character drawings, you know.
• 24:21
  Matt: But, the prettiest people I've ever seen.
• 24:24
  Terry Moore: You know, and all of them tall, way, way taller than me. I'm 5'10", and I was looking at everyone.
• 24:31
  Terry Moore: So, yeah.
• 24:32
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 24:33
  Terry Moore: really beautiful people.
• 24:35
  Matt: I'm 5'9".
• 24:36
  Matt: order, so I get it.
• 24:38
  Terry Moore: Yeah.
• 24:38
  Tad Eggleston: No, that's right, I am taller than you, I'm 5'10 and a half. I think you might have that half inch, though, Terry, because you and I… you and I seemed like we were the same height when I met you in person.
• 24:48
  Terry Moore: Oh, okay.
• 24:50
  Tad Eggleston: I know Matt's… Matt's a little bit shorter than me. I'm a tiny bit shorter. I like to hold it over him.
• 24:55
  Terry Moore: We may have been wearing our high heels, and Matt wears his flip-flops, so…
• 24:59
  Terry Moore: The great thing about being 5'10 is you fit into every sports car. Back to that Ferrari again, just saying.
• 25:05
  Matt: Yep, yep.
• 25:06
  Tad Eggleston: Well, not me, though, because all of my height is in my torso.
• 25:11
  Terry Moore: You need a portion of them.
• 25:13
  Matt: Yeah.
• 25:14
  Terry Moore: Of course, has lots of elbow room.
• 25:15
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, this is… this is why I like Hondas. They're, like, really the only car where I consistently don't bump my head sitting down in them.
• 25:25
  Terry Moore: That makes no sense, because everyone in Japan is shorter than us, and skinnier than us.
• 25:31
  Tad Eggleston: I don't know what to say.
• 25:35
  Terry Moore: They made them for us, and they just made these big white seats for us, I guess.
• 25:38
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, well, because, like, Toyotas, like, I have to duck my head to get in. Mazdas…
• 25:46
  Tad Eggleston: I can't drive easily because my head bumps the ceiling.
• 25:51
  Terry Moore: I've been in a car like that, and I shouldn't be in a car like that.
• 25:55
  Tad Eggleston: Right. Well, but again, I'm not tall, I just, like, it's… I mean, I always laugh, because my brother is, like, 6'3", 6'4", and if we sit down at a table.
• 26:06
  Tad Eggleston: It's hard to tell which one of us is taller.
• 26:09
  Terry Moore: Hmm.
• 26:09
  Tad Eggleston: But when we stand up.
• 26:11
  Terry Moore: I mean, he has the legs.
• 26:13
  Tad Eggleston: He's got the legs, yeah. I mean, I've dated girls as much as a foot shorter than me who had longer legs than I did.
• 26:21
  Terry Moore: Huh.
• 26:22
  Terry Moore: My wife.
• 26:23
  Matt: I don't know, Peter?
• 26:24
  Terry Moore: She's all legs.
• 26:26
  Terry Moore: What was that meant?
• 26:27
  Matt: talking about Peter?
• 26:29
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 26:30
  Matt: He's 6'3"?
• 26:31
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 26:32
  Matt: I would have never guessed that.
• 26:34
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I know. Well, again, because you're seeing us both on Zoom, so we look really similar.
• 26:39
  Matt: Yeah. Save him!
• 26:40
  Tad Eggleston: Out of us!
• 26:41
  Matt: I'm shocked!
• 26:42
  Tad Eggleston: But when we stand next to each other, he's…
• 26:47
  Matt: Dang!
• 26:48
  Terry Moore: Wish I could say I was 6'3 and I've been crouching all these years.
• 26:51
  Tad Eggleston: Well, I mean, just…
• 26:53
  Matt: Just find a fine.
• 26:54
  Tad Eggleston: 5-6 guy to walk around with?
• 26:57
  Terry Moore: No.
• 26:58
  Tad Eggleston: And say that he's 6 foot.
• 27:00
  Tad Eggleston: Nobody will question you.
• 27:04
  Tad Eggleston: What was the most fun trip? I mean, you talked about Italy and Oslo, what other fun places? I mean, you've done a lot of traveling the last couple years.
• 27:13
  Terry Moore: I mean…
• 27:14
  Terry Moore: I know Chicago was the best, because you got to hang out with me for half an hour, but, you know, I mean, other than…
• 27:21
  Tad Eggleston: that.
• 27:22
  Terry Moore: Coming back next year, I'm coming to C2E2 next year.
• 27:24
  Tad Eggleston: Are you?
• 27:25
  Tad Eggleston: Well, then I'm gonna tell you now that we should actually do a meal this time.
• 27:30
  Tad Eggleston: Because we're talking about it ahead of time, rather than me going, oh my god, Terry Moore's gonna be there, I gotta go say hi!
• 27:36
  Terry Moore: Yeah, we should, because I'm hungry.
• 27:38
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 27:39
  Tad Eggleston: I know where good food is in Chicago.
• 27:42
  Terry Moore: I've heard they may have a good restaurant somewhere.
• 27:45
  Tad Eggleston: A couple.
• 27:45
  Matt: 4 or two, one or two.
• 27:46
  Terry Moore: Couple of.
• 27:47
  Tad Eggleston: I took another comic book friend of mine out to pizza recently, and he was quite happy about that.
• 27:56
  Terry Moore: You know, Keith is the one… his family taught me how to eat pizza right by…
• 28:00
  Terry Moore: They all put pepper on it.
• 28:02
  Terry Moore: Yeah.
• 28:03
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 28:03
  Terry Moore: I started putting pepper on the pizza, and it's the greatest thing that ever happened to me in my whole life, besides my children.
• 28:10
  Tad Eggleston: Well, yeah, you gotta get that in really… well, maybe, Robin?
• 28:14
  Terry Moore: Yeah, yeah.
• 28:15
  Matt: Top around pizza.
• 28:16
  Terry Moore: Yeah, pepperon pizza, Robin, children, yeah.
• 28:22
  Terry Moore: in there somewhere.
• 28:25
  Terry Moore: But yes, if you put sprinkle pepper all over your pizza, now it has a bite to it, and it is… God, it's good. It just changes it from a cheese sandwich
• 28:35
  Terry Moore: To a real bite of something that you love.
• 28:38
  Tad Eggleston: I have to think about that.
• 28:40
  Terry Moore: Yeah, think about it hard.
• 28:42
  Tad Eggleston: I will.
• 28:43
  Tad Eggleston: I've done some crazy stuff on pizza.
• 28:47
  Tad Eggleston: And often because of COVID.
• 28:48
  Terry Moore: I'm about.
• 28:48
  Tad Eggleston: people.
• 28:49
  Terry Moore: Oysters and mussels.
• 28:50
  Tad Eggleston: Paul Tobin in one of his comics.
• 28:54
  Tad Eggleston: And when I had him on, I asked if he'd ever done this, or if this was just a gag in one of the comics.
• 28:59
  Tad Eggleston: Introduced me to peanut butter on pizza.
• 29:04
  Terry Moore: Oh yeah, I've heard that.
• 29:06
  Tad Eggleston: I hadn't, but I'm like…
• 29:08
  Tad Eggleston: Okay. I don't know if this is a gag or not, but then I had Paul on, I'm like, so, is it a thing? And he's like, yeah, I mean, I don't do it all the time, but I've done it, and I don't regret it. Like, okay, now I have to have a pizza peanut butter sandwich, and I did, and I enjoyed it. I wouldn't necessarily have it on a regular basis, but I did enjoy it. And I'm thinking next time, I might add jelly.
• 29:28
  Terry Moore: Crazy. I was there the night that that was invented. It was at a crackhead party in San.
• 29:33
  Tad Eggleston: Goodbye.
• 29:35
  Terry Moore: They were whacked out of their minds. They thought it was peanut butter, but it wasn't, and I'm just… I'll stop the story there.
• 29:42
  Terry Moore: I don't want to put you off.
• 29:44
  Matt: Was this in the early 90s?
• 29:48
  Terry Moore: All the regrettable food comes from San Francisco, so just think about that.
• 29:53
  Tad Eggleston: I mean… You're not entirely wrong.
• 29:58
  Tad Eggleston: Did they?
• 29:59
  Matt: Put the pineapple on the pizza first.
• 30:01
  Tad Eggleston: Hey, don't mess with pineapple on pizza.
• 30:04
  Matt: I'm joking, I love pineapple on pizza!
• 30:10
  Tad Eggleston: So, we fell down a rabbit hole. I was asking, where have the fun visits been?
• 30:19
  Terry Moore: I was like.
• 30:20
  Tad Eggleston: an hour ago.
• 30:21
  Matt: Billyard.
• 30:22
  Terry Moore: The one that I remember, some of these places had gone back for the umpteenth time.
• 30:28
  Terry Moore: So, I'm just… it's just kind of like…
• 30:31
  Terry Moore: you know, I'm not there to sightsee, I'm just there to do my thing.
• 30:36
  Terry Moore: The one that I did go to for the first time ever was in the… last year. I went to England twice.
• 30:42
  Terry Moore: And the second time, I went up into the middle of the country, where all the PBS detective shows are shot.
• 30:50
  Terry Moore: The pretty meadows, the little towns with the little windy street.
• 30:55
  Terry Moore: Cool.
• 30:56
  Terry Moore: I loved it. It was… it was…
• 30:58
  Tad Eggleston: For… for Lakes, or Thought Bot Mobile, or… Yes, Lakes.
• 31:03
  Terry Moore: I've been to Thought Bubble, too, actually.
• 31:05
  Tad Eggleston: Lakes and Thought Bubble are both very much… On my dream list.
• 31:10
  Terry Moore: Lakes was beautiful, and it turns out that the little town
• 31:14
  Terry Moore: Which is… which look… which looks like…
• 31:17
  Terry Moore: one of those AI calm music channels on YouTube.
• 31:21
  Terry Moore: That has the streets like that, and it turned out to be the home place of the lady who did,
• 31:31
  Terry Moore: The little bunny.
• 31:33
  Terry Moore: Andrew… Potter? No, not Potter.
• 31:35
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, Beatrix Spotter?
• 31:36
  Terry Moore: Jack Spotter, yes.
• 31:38
  Terry Moore: Separate it from Harry Potter.
• 31:41
  Terry Moore: And the little bunnies. So, there were little shops there with all that kind of stuff around, and…
• 31:47
  Tad Eggleston: Man, did they know your audience. All the bunnies behind you right now? Now I understand.
• 31:54
  Terry Moore: It's all about the bunnies, dude.
• 31:57
  Terry Moore: You can never have too many bunnies on your side.
• 32:01
  Terry Moore: I… and they are… they are… they are loyal friends. I have seen those guys turn and take down a grown man before he can blink.
• 32:08
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I believe it. I believe it. We have bunnies in our yard.
• 32:12
  Matt: I saw Monty Python's Holy Grail, I get it.
• 32:15
  Tad Eggleston: We have lots of, lots of bunnies in the yard, and .
• 32:19
  Terry Moore: The brown kind?
• 32:20
  Tad Eggleston: And sometimes they stick… somehow they stick around, even though they have the dog that chases them in the backyard, and the four cats that, like, stare at them from the windows.
• 32:30
  Matt: Hmm.
• 32:32
  Terry Moore: They're… yeah, they're… They're not skittish.
• 32:37
  Tad Eggleston: I think they play with the dog.
• 32:40
  Tad Eggleston: They like to remind him that he's old and slow.
• 32:43
  Matt: Yeah, not fast, yes.
• 32:47
  Terry Moore: Birds do that. Blackbirds would do that. They're smart.
• 32:50
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, see, my favorite with birds is I had a cat that I swear to God, like, must have been a hypnotist, because he would sit in the window.
• 33:00
  Tad Eggleston: And stare at the birds in the tree until they freaked out and dive-bombed him.
• 33:04
  Terry Moore: And knocked themselves out on the glass.
• 33:10
  Tad Eggleston: One day I came home from work, and there were 3 knocked-out birds.
• 33:16
  Tad Eggleston: They never died, but three knocked-out birds still kind of waking up in the bush in front of them.
• 33:22
  Matt: Did we get him, guys?
• 33:25
  Tad Eggleston: And I just see… I see my cat, Matt, just sit in the window, like…
• 33:32
  Terry Moore: He must have convinced them he was gonna come get the nest, and they thought, no, I gotta run him off.
• 33:36
  Tad Eggleston: No, yeah, that's what I… that's the only thing I can come up with, is that, like, he somehow got it into their head that they couldn't run.
• 33:46
  Terry Moore: Oh, yeah.
• 33:47
  Tad Eggleston: Fighting was their only option.
• 33:51
  Tad Eggleston: And then they slammed into the glass.
• 33:54
  Terry Moore: What kind of birds were these? Were these little or big?
• 33:56
  Terry Moore: Was it, like… Sparrows, or what?
• 34:02
  Terry Moore: Oh, man, his house has been nuked.
• 34:05
  Matt: Did he pause? He froze, oh no!
• 34:09
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, I froze. You guys are frozen. Oh, there we go. I said, I said everything from, from robins to crows.
• 34:15
  Matt: Oh, wow.
• 34:16
  Terry Moore: Robins are not very good.
• 34:18
  Matt: Well, you know…
• 34:19
  Terry Moore: You're very proud.
• 34:20
  Matt: It's easy to get someone's goat when you know where it's tied.
• 34:23
  Matt: So he's like, I'm gonna get your eggs, and they're like, no, you're not.
• 34:27
  Terry Moore: I have never heard that expression before, I thought I'd heard them all.
• 34:30
  Matt: No, my wife's a teacher, and she always tells me, you know,
• 34:36
  Matt: don't let the students get to you. So, if they don't know what your goat… they don't know where your goat is.
• 34:43
  Matt: You know, and it's funny, yeah, can't get your goat unless they know horse tied. Now just keep punching until they find it.
• 34:49
  Tad Eggleston: So, Matt, just because I know you and how you behave, Have you been just…
• 34:55
  Tad Eggleston: Randomly walking up to your wife and going, 6'7".
• 34:58
  Matt: No. I don't even know what it means. I'm like, whatever.
• 35:03
  Tad Eggleston: It doesn't. That's the point.
• 35:06
  Tad Eggleston: It doesn't.
• 35:08
  Matt: Okay, fair enough.
• 35:10
  Tad Eggleston: It's not supposed.
• 35:11
  Matt: My niece was doing it, so…
• 35:12
  Tad Eggleston: That's why they think it's so funny.
• 35:15
  Matt: I don't care.
• 35:16
  Matt: Fair enough.
• 35:19
  Tad Eggleston: But, like, you can… it makes it so you can laugh in gym class. You're doing push-ups. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7…
• 35:30
  Matt: Yeah, fair enough.
• 35:32
  Tad Eggleston: This is the thing, Terry, you're probably not around teenagers these days. 6'7 is a.
• 35:36
  Terry Moore: Big thing. I'm about 6'7".
• 35:40
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, I would think it was dumb, except that I've seen it bring so much joy to so many kids, and it's like, okay, doesn't matter if it's dumb anymore. If you're taking that kind of joy out of something that doesn't hurt anybody.
• 35:54
  Matt: Yeah, exactly.
• 35:55
  Tad Eggleston: Have at it.
• 36:00
  Terry Moore: Well…
• 36:01
  Terry Moore: when we were kids, if we came up with something like that, it was quickly labeled as something's hidden satanic Code. The Da Vinci Code. These kids have broken the Da Vinci Code, and that's the start of it right there.
• 36:12
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 36:13
  Matt: We can write a whole book about that.
• 36:15
  Tad Eggleston: I actually did, I actually did write, or read, A scholarly piece on… on…
• 36:23
  Tad Eggleston: Gen Y and absurdist humor.
• 36:26
  Tad Eggleston: And, and, like, making the argument that what it has to do with is, like…
• 36:34
  Tad Eggleston: When we think of some of the crazy stuff over the last 20 years, we're comparing it to a world that wasn't always a ton better, but at least seemed better.
• 36:46
  Tad Eggleston: like, we remember a pre-911 world. We remember a world where, like, a mass shooting, like, would result in something more than thoughts and prayers from people who sent out Christmas cards of them holding their automatic weapons.
• 37:02
  Matt: Yep.
• 37:03
  Tad Eggleston: These kids don't have memories of that.
• 37:07
  Tad Eggleston: Their entire world feels absurd to them.
• 37:10
  Matt: They've had active shooter drills.
• 37:12
  Tad Eggleston: Right, they've grown up with active shooter drills, they've, you know…
• 37:17
  Tad Eggleston: They're on their second Trump presidency, and they can't even drive yet.
• 37:23
  Tad Eggleston: You know, so when everything that scares you is absurd.
• 37:28
  Matt: why not find absurd, funny things? Yeah, no kidding. You're… you're fine.
• 37:32
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, clearly, we're in a world where meaning
• 37:36
  Tad Eggleston: Doesn't mean what it used to mean, or what our parents think it means.
• 37:42
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, it's like… it's, it's like… like the Princess Bride. You keep using that word, I don't…
• 37:47
  Matt: think you're memes.
• 37:48
  Tad Eggleston: What you think it means.
• 37:51
  Matt: Yup.
• 37:53
  Tad Eggleston: And, like, I read that, I'm like.
• 37:57
  Tad Eggleston: I don't know if it's 100% on Mark, but this… this makes sense to me. This totally feels like one.
• 38:04
  Tad Eggleston: My kids at school, is like… Yeah, okay.
• 38:09
  Tad Eggleston: I brought that up with Belle when she was in town, too, and she's like, yep, that's totally our generation.
• 38:14
  Matt: Yup.
• 38:15
  Matt: Yep, yep.
• 38:18
  Tad Eggleston: His daughter has joined the book club, and she got to stay with me. I'm gonna brag for you here.
• 38:24
  Matt: Thank you. Somehow, this schlub…
• 38:28
  Tad Eggleston: Raised a girl… That at… is she 21 yet?
• 38:32
  Matt: She is 21, yes.
• 38:33
  Tad Eggleston: Okay. At 21, got to do work at the Argonne National Laboratory.
• 38:41
  Matt: accelerator.
• 38:42
  Terry Moore: Yeah, yeah.
• 38:43
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah, so, like, that's why she stayed with me, is because I live in Chicago, and I gave her a ride to go use the particle accelerator.
• 38:54
  Tad Eggleston: So, he may seem like a schlub, But…
• 39:00
  Tad Eggleston: Well, no, it's probably her mom.
• 39:02
  Matt: I was gonna say, I've got… I'm married to Francine, so that's why.
• 39:07
  Terry Moore: Somebody told me today that daughters tend to…
• 39:12
  Terry Moore: Take more after their fathers.
• 39:15
  Terry Moore: And so, take more after their mothers.
• 39:17
  Matt: I have two.
• 39:19
  Terry Moore: daughters, and one takes more after me, and one takes more after her mother. It's just… yeah, just the flick of the draw.
• 39:25
  Matt: Yep.
• 39:27
  Tad Eggleston: That actually does lead to a question that I have. Are we ever going to get to see…
• 39:32
  Tad Eggleston: Catch you and Francine, just be parents.
• 39:37
  Terry Moore: Yeah, you've only seen it for about a page.
• 39:39
  Matt: Yeah, 30 seconds, yeah.
• 39:42
  Terry Moore: I've actually thought about, you know, in my mind, they're aging.
• 39:48
  Matt: No.
• 39:49
  Terry Moore: People don't necessarily want to see that, but… Are you kidding me?
• 39:55
  Tad Eggleston: How long have the Hernandez brothers been having their characters age? People like aging characters. How long did Gasoline… I mean…
• 40:06
  Tad Eggleston: He just died at 104.
• 40:08
  Matt: It's a misconception. Growing up, I was always like, how is Spider-Man still in high school? I mean…
• 40:15
  Tad Eggleston: Alright.
• 40:15
  Matt: You know?
• 40:18
  Terry Moore: Yeah.
• 40:19
  Terry Moore: That's a trick, I mean, if you thought about how you would handle that to keep him there.
• 40:24
  Terry Moore: In the little golden era. But yeah, I mean, that's a real head thinker right there. I mean.
• 40:29
  Terry Moore: When I draw, Francina Cachew for myself.
• 40:34
  Terry Moore: I draw them… mid-30s. Late 30s.
• 40:38
  Tad Eggleston: Huh?
• 40:39
  Terry Moore: when I draw them, for the public.
• 40:42
  Terry Moore: I try to stay closer to what they look like in the book.
• 40:45
  Terry Moore: But I'm…
• 40:46
  Tad Eggleston: We'll see. I'd love to see the mid to late 30s.
• 40:49
  Terry Moore: Yeah, and because for me, they're real, and because I've been through a bunch of decades.
• 40:56
  Terry Moore: Right. I love them at every decade.
• 40:58
  Matt: Yep.
• 40:59
  Terry Moore: You know, they're…
• 41:00
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, there…
• 41:01
  Terry Moore: There is no less charming decade. I mean, once you love somebody, they're just more beautiful with every decade you see them in.
• 41:09
  Tad Eggleston: There are so few comics that age anywhere near real time.
• 41:16
  Tad Eggleston: Or even, really, at all.
• 41:19
  Tad Eggleston: But there's something special about, like, every one of them, whether it's Gasoline Alley, or…
• 41:25
  Matt: Or for better or worse, or loving rockets.
• 41:28
  Tad Eggleston: You know, being able to not only
• 41:33
  Tad Eggleston: Age with those characters, but have those characters age with you.
• 41:38
  Tad Eggleston: Is such a special thing.
• 41:41
  Terry Moore: The trick for the creator is you've got to replace
• 41:45
  Terry Moore: If you have something magical in your combination, character combination, and you remove it, you've got to replace it with something, because you don't want… one of the tropes you can fall into as a writer is just to start going down all the reality
• 42:02
  Terry Moore: trails, and it's all about loss. Okay, now we've lost a mother, we've lost a parent.
• 42:08
  Matt: The children are all gone, the house is empty, you're lonely, empty mess, blah blah blah.
• 42:13
  Terry Moore: You know, give me a break.
• 42:15
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, don't get me wrong, there are a lot of good stories there.
• 42:17
  Terry Moore: You know, you can do that, but there's got a point to it. I mean, there's gotta be a point to, like, okay, what are you going to do with your main character after they've gone through all that? Because…
• 42:27
  Terry Moore: middle-aged can… is not a rose garden, and… but why would we want to read about somebody's life at that point when they're 40? And there's a lot of great reasons, so you as a writer, need to know…
• 42:41
  Terry Moore: Don't just start taking crap away.
• 42:44
  Terry Moore: Put something back in there. And, that really means.
• 42:49
  Tad Eggleston: Well, and that's one of the reasons I asked the question, because you have put something in there. We've met those children, but only just, you know.
• 42:59
  Terry Moore: Well, in my mind, the kids are already… .
• 43:02
  Tad Eggleston: Probably teenagers.
• 43:03
  Terry Moore: Kind of like protein, at least.
• 43:05
  Matt: At least, yeah.
• 43:07
  Terry Moore: Well, actually, in, 5 years.
• 43:09
  Terry Moore: We did see them more. We saw Francine and…
• 43:12
  Tad Eggleston: I did.
• 43:13
  Terry Moore: Yeah, and they were, like, 6 and all that.
• 43:15
  Tad Eggleston: And that's part of what made me start to, like, crave even more, just… even if it was just a one-shot, to be able to have just…
• 43:24
  Tad Eggleston: Nobody has to run off and save the world. Nobody's about to get killed, nobody… just like…
• 43:32
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, my friend Andrew Iden is writing a series at DC right now called, oh, God, what's it called? It's essentially the Justice League Cooking.
• 43:43
  Tad Eggleston: Taste of Justice.
• 43:45
  Tad Eggleston: It's a vertical Skrull comic, but it's the Justice League cooking. It, like, the fir- the first issue was Flash making chocolate chip cookies, but of course, because there are things that require waiting, he messes up batch after batch after batch, because he's just, you know,
• 44:04
  Tad Eggleston: I would love to just have…
• 44:07
  Tad Eggleston: Catch you and Francine and the girls.
• 44:11
  Tad Eggleston: cooking, or wrapping Christmas presents.
• 44:13
  Terry Moore: You know, that's kind of what SipKids was for me.
• 44:18
  Terry Moore: Sip Kids was the Sip Gang, as the 5-year-olds or 6-year-olds, and an entire issue would be about soccer practice, or Halloween night, or one day… one afternoon at the ski… at the ski resort. And it was so fun, because it was just hanging out and just…
• 44:36
  Terry Moore: Being the gang of friends, and even the littlest thing could be entertaining for a page, if you write it correctly, you know?
• 44:45
  Terry Moore: It was a lot… it was a joy not to have to think of
• 44:50
  Terry Moore: big John Wick reasons to get up off the chair.
• 44:54
  Tad Eggleston: That's right.
• 44:55
  Terry Moore: Just sit there and have a conversation that makes you laugh, and…
• 44:59
  Tad Eggleston: My wife has made me two t-shirts that have the Francine Catchew David triptych?
• 45:07
  Tad Eggleston: on both sides, but one side is the adults and one side is the sip kids. The one that I wear the most is the one that.
• 45:14
  Terry Moore: necessarily.
• 45:14
  Tad Eggleston: Kids on the front.
• 45:16
  Terry Moore: That's really cool.
• 45:18
  Terry Moore: I should make that shirt, too.
• 45:20
  Tad Eggleston: Bill.
• 45:21
  Terry Moore: I would love that.
• 45:23
  Terry Moore: That's very… that's very thoughtful.
• 45:25
  Tad Eggleston: Anyhow…
• 45:26
  Terry Moore: So, yeah, that's… I agree with you, real life can be extremely entertaining.
• 45:32
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 45:34
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I mean, and that was… you know, I mean, Strangers in Paradise, I loved a lot of the…
• 45:41
  Tad Eggleston: the weird Parker Girl stuffs, and David's story, and whatnot, but when I loved it the most was when it was just…
• 45:49
  Tad Eggleston: Catch you and Francine… Trying to figure out how to…
• 45:54
  Tad Eggleston: Not kill each other, or allow themselves to love each other.
• 45:58
  Matt: And make all of these.
• 45:59
  Tad Eggleston: above.
• 45:59
  Matt: Yep, yep.
• 46:00
  Terry Moore: You know, one thing I didn't want was…
• 46:03
  Terry Moore: Just to have them in a domestic setting, and…
• 46:07
  Terry Moore: Will they, won't-they, arguing, good day, bad day, somebody's going to band practice.
• 46:14
  Terry Moore: Somebody's doing drugs. I didn't want to do that story. Somebody else was already doing that story.
• 46:19
  Tad Eggleston: And that's fair.
• 46:20
  Matt: Absolutely.
• 46:21
  Terry Moore: And I had met… In my previous career…
• 46:25
  Tad Eggleston: They're getting older now, they're not supposed to be, like, death-defying quite the same amount.
• 46:30
  Terry Moore: Right, right. Yeah, that's right.
• 46:32
  Tad Eggleston: One of these days, Katu's gonna try to jump from one plane to another, and she's gonna miss!
• 46:37
  Matt: They should go bust your head.
• 46:38
  Terry Moore: You're talking about Tom Cruise.
• 46:40
  Terry Moore: It's just a matter of time for that dude.
• 46:44
  Tad Eggleston: But I won't… I won't care as much.
• 46:48
  Terry Moore: The, one thing that did… There's a downside to this.
• 46:54
  Terry Moore: The downside is, like Jason Bourne,
• 46:58
  Terry Moore: It's so sad to see Jason Bourne get older over the course of the movies.
• 47:04
  Terry Moore: I really loved him at Stage 1.
• 47:07
  Terry Moore: You know, I wish we could have had 4 movies made that year.
• 47:12
  Terry Moore: But then as he gets older, you think, well, he can't… he's not going to be able to run all the way down that train station.
• 47:17
  Matt: Yeah.
• 47:18
  Terry Moore: You know.
• 47:19
  Tad Eggleston: I mean.
• 47:20
  Terry Moore: It was so bloody cool.
• 47:21
  Tad Eggleston: It's only because Matt Damon's not as cool as Keanu Reeves.
• 47:25
  Matt: Yeah, but it's also in the script, so I think he can do it.
• 47:35
  Terry Moore: Oh, yeah, I like the real stuff.
• 47:38
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 47:39
  Terry Moore: Okay, I'll take that…
• 47:41
  Tad Eggleston: And I love… I mean, I'm excited that you said that there's another Moda Girl.
• 47:46
  Terry Moore: Yeah.
• 47:47
  Matt: Is that the laundry?
• 47:48
  Terry Moore: When we left, the Motor Girl story, she was…
• 47:51
  Terry Moore: ready to go home and see her mom. She hadn't yet to go home and see her mom.
• 47:55
  Matt: Yeah. She was gonna go do that, and .
• 47:59
  Terry Moore: Yeah, things happen.
• 48:02
  Matt: That was the one shot, right?
• 48:04
  Matt: Have you thought about tying the one-shots together somehow, so that it… Kind of like a…
• 48:11
  Matt: Disjointed story where they can somehow connect?
• 48:15
  Terry Moore: No, I hadn't. What my goal was, was to do…
• 48:20
  Terry Moore: Did… I don't know if you guys read the Ian Fleming books, the James Bond books?
• 48:26
  Tad Eggleston: Couple.
• 48:27
  Terry Moore: I read them all when I was, like, you know, 13. I binge-read them.
• 48:31
  Terry Moore: And in the middle of Volvo.
• 48:33
  Terry Moore: the big books with the main stories that have now have all become movies, there was a book of short stories, James Bond short stories, there were, like, 5 of them.
• 48:42
  Terry Moore: Been trying to remember. Living… I can't remember what the name of that book was.
• 48:46
  Terry Moore: It's just… it looked like all the others, just a little paperback book.
• 48:50
  Terry Moore: And, maybe it was Live and Let Die?
• 48:53
  Terry Moore: No, because that was a guy.
• 48:57
  Terry Moore: It had one of the titles that became a movie.
• 48:59
  Terry Moore: Anyway, it was just a bunch of short stories, and they were delightful.
• 49:03
  Terry Moore: And,
• 49:05
  Terry Moore: I wanted this to do… to do that, to take 5 disconnected stories and put them in one anthology, and you know that it does connect in the big world, but I let the big books carry that load.
• 49:17
  Terry Moore: I just want the one-shots to be entertaining.
• 49:20
  Matt: Okay.
• 49:22
  Terry Moore: Because, especially since, the Strangers in Paradise happened in, In the 1860s.
• 49:29
  Terry Moore: 1870s.
• 49:31
  Tad Eggleston: So it's gotta be the prequel.
• 49:34
  Terry Moore: Yeah, it's just gonna… maybe a prequel.
• 49:36
  Terry Moore: Maybe I'll do it, and it would be easy to do a prequel for all of them, actually.
• 49:41
  Terry Moore: If I did a prequel for Echo, it would be… Everything leading up to,
• 49:49
  Terry Moore: Annie doing the flight check in the Mojave Desert that ends up in page 1 of ECHO.
• 49:56
  Terry Moore: Same thing with Rachel. What happened the day before we started the Rachel Rising book?
• 50:02
  Terry Moore: Things like that.
• 50:04
  Tad Eggleston: The, the James Bond short story book was… was for your eyes only.
• 50:10
  Terry Moore: Okay.
• 50:10
  Tad Eggleston: included.
• 50:11
  Terry Moore: Included from a view to a Kill.
• 50:14
  Tad Eggleston: For your eyes only. Quantum of solace.
• 50:18
  Tad Eggleston: Risico?
• 50:20
  Tad Eggleston: The Hildebrand Rarity.
• 50:22
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, that's it.
• 50:24
  Tad Eggleston: So… Three of them.
• 50:27
  Tad Eggleston: have…
• 50:28
  Terry Moore: And one of them, I guess the Hildebrand rarity or something like that, it wasn't even a James Bond story. It was James having a drink with someone, and they told their story.
• 50:36
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, okay.
• 50:37
  Tad Eggleston: So he's, like, the… the…
• 50:40
  Matt: Like a Sandman twist.
• 50:41
  Terry Moore: He was the listener.
• 50:43
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 50:44
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, that's always fun, when you can be, like, character and crypt keeper.
• 50:51
  Tad Eggleston: All at once.
• 50:54
  Terry Moore: Zach.
• 50:54
  Tad Eggleston: It's a way to be able to tell all sorts of different stories.
• 50:58
  Terry Moore: You're world building there, and your character has a whole world around him, and everything you can add to it just is building.
• 51:07
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, that's kind of how the Terryverse has come about, is, like, you started with
• 51:12
  Tad Eggleston: This epic thing, but there were characters here, and characters there, and you built around them, and then those characters wound up
• 51:21
  Tad Eggleston: And other books, and… So on, and so forth, and…
• 51:26
  Terry Moore: Yeah, and they all have their little details, and it just adds to the… imagery.
• 51:32
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 51:34
  Terry Moore: you know, again, like an AI picture, if you're looking at an AI picture of,
• 51:39
  Terry Moore: cafe on a rainy street. You start looking in the window of the cafe, and they've put every little thing they can think of in there.
• 51:46
  Terry Moore: Make it look like, oh, I love all those things. Oh, there's candles, there's a teacup, and…
• 51:52
  Terry Moore: Books and, writing pads.
• 51:55
  Tad Eggleston: Books in 17 different languages, and…
• 51:58
  Terry Moore: No language. Just, you look at.
• 52:00
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 52:00
  Terry Moore: Martian Cryptic.
• 52:01
  Tad Eggleston: Right?
• 52:04
  Terry Moore: Is this no real rider?
• 52:05
  Tad Eggleston: cafe in Paris, or is it in… Out of…
• 52:10
  Terry Moore: It's around the corner.
• 52:11
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 52:12
  Terry Moore: Around the corner, in your dreams.
• 52:15
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 52:19
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah… Alright, AI scares me.
• 52:25
  Matt: Me too.
• 52:27
  Terry Moore: I hate it.
• 52:28
  Tad Eggleston: I don't… I don't like it…
• 52:32
  Tad Eggleston: I have trouble hating tools. I do hate when people don't understand what the tools are for, or try to use them in ways that they're not designed for, or whatnot. Like…
• 52:46
  Tad Eggleston: Using a large language model, to… Search through every medical journal.
• 52:55
  Tad Eggleston: When you're trying to diagnose something?
• 52:58
  Tad Eggleston: would be brilliant.
• 53:01
  Tad Eggleston: But you would want it trained only on reputable medical journals.
• 53:06
  Matt: Right?
• 53:07
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, you can already tell what law firms are using proprietary large language models that are only trained on Westlaw versus the ones that are using ChatGPT, because the ones that are using the proprietary models.
• 53:24
  Tad Eggleston: Their briefs are a little bit drier if they don't go through and punch them up.
• 53:31
  Tad Eggleston: But they've got, like, really great sourcing and, like, dig up cases that…
• 53:36
  Tad Eggleston: are real, but nobody had thought about in a long time. Versus if you use ChatGPT,
• 53:43
  Tad Eggleston: Not only is the writing bad, but, like, half of the cases don't exist.
• 53:50
  Matt: Or don't apply.
• 53:52
  Tad Eggleston: the case.
• 53:53
  Matt: From for your eyes only.
• 53:56
  Tad Eggleston: And treated it like it was real.
• 53:59
  Matt: Right.
• 54:01
  Tad Eggleston: So, like, the technology itself has purposes, but right now, a lot of what it's being used for isn't even what it…
• 54:10
  Tad Eggleston: Isn't what it was designed for, and really isn't something that it's good at.
• 54:17
  Matt: Well, but Tad, it's the people who are directing it.
• 54:20
  Matt: If you take the top 1% of the 1%, those are the people directing this thing, clearly it's not going to be for the people.
• 54:29
  Tad Eggleston: Though, I think, I heard Matt Fraction talking about it, and I loved his thoughts. He's like, AI's… I'm not… he's like, I'm not actually worried about AI, taking my job long-term as a writer. Sure, they'll… they're gonna try once or twice. Of course. But, like…
• 54:45
  Matt: It doesn't write well.
• 54:47
  Tad Eggleston: It might be able to take a script and go, this could be made better by adding this, but it won't add that in well. You'll still need a writer to do that. So in the long run, if it becomes involved in the creative process, the people it's gonna replace are the executives giving notes.
• 55:06
  Matt: Yup.
• 55:07
  Tad Eggleston: And they'll give better notes.
• 55:09
  Tad Eggleston: It will.
• 55:10
  Matt: You better know.
• 55:11
  Matt: Yeah, yeah.
• 55:12
  Tad Eggleston: Than that, like, guy making a million dollars because… reasons.
• 55:18
  Matt: Yeah, exactly.
• 55:21
  Tad Eggleston: But it's gonna take a long time before anybody acknowledges that, oh, no, that's the person it should be replacing. It should be replacing the stupid money guy.
• 55:30
  Tad Eggleston: not… The low-paid creative, because.
• 55:33
  Matt: Working guy, yeah.
• 55:35
  Tad Eggleston: It's one thing to say, this will be better with a car chase, and it's another thing to, like, make that car chase good.
• 55:48
  Tad Eggleston: You know… And it's not designed to truly be generative.
• 55:53
  Tad Eggleston: You know, our tech is nowhere near something that's designed to be truly generative. It's designed to plagiarize.
• 56:02
  Matt: Yeah, to mine data and re-reguritate it.
• 56:06
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 56:07
  Terry Moore: Cooperative.
• 56:10
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 56:11
  Terry Moore: That description is troporative.
• 56:13
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 56:14
  Terry Moore: world.
• 56:16
  Tad Eggleston: So…
• 56:17
  Tad Eggleston: Matt, do you have any other good questions? Because this is school night for me, so I might move into my favorite closing question, if you don't have.
• 56:26
  Matt: My own question?
• 56:28
  Matt: Terry, 3EI Atlas, have you heard of it? Is it a comet?
• 56:32
  Matt: Is it an alien ship?
• 56:36
  Terry Moore: For what?
• 56:36
  Matt: 3EI Atlas, the comet?
• 56:39
  Matt: You haven't heard.
• 56:40
  Terry Moore: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, the big guy.
• 56:41
  Matt: Oh, okay, good.
• 56:43
  Terry Moore: Yeah, it is a, slightly smaller than a planet.
• 56:51
  Terry Moore: And there's a…
• 56:53
  Terry Moore: 1 trillion zillion billion of them out there. And the fact that we're not hitting by them on a regular basis is a bloody miracle.
• 57:00
  Matt: Yeah, exactly.
• 57:02
  Terry Moore: So, yeah, there's one.
• 57:04
  Terry Moore: You know, and, you know, If you get into physics and…
• 57:10
  Terry Moore: space have a lot in common. You get into the human body, and there's…
• 57:15
  Terry Moore: Smaller you go and look at the makeup of us, we're really a vast amount of space, with little.
• 57:20
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, yeah.
• 57:22
  Terry Moore: Well… The galaxy and the universe is the same way.
• 57:27
  Terry Moore: Maybe we're all just little things in one great big body.
• 57:31
  Terry Moore: But this stuff is flying around all over the place. And…
• 57:35
  Terry Moore: No matter how you think we got here, or how this planet got here.
• 57:39
  Terry Moore: It is an absolute miracle that it's still here.
• 57:44
  Terry Moore: We're on it, and it's still here.
• 57:46
  Terry Moore: But.
• 57:47
  Tad Eggleston: See, I now have…
• 57:48
  Tad Eggleston: I now have a third theory. You were wondering if it was a comet or a spaceship, Matt. What if it's a white blood cell?
• 57:56
  Matt: Yeah, exactly, coming to kill us, because we're out of the virus!
• 58:02
  Terry Moore: It's seeking out, cancerous life in the universe, which we may qualify now.
• 58:09
  Matt: Unfortunately, you know.
• 58:10
  Terry Moore: Yeah.
• 58:11
  Terry Moore: And they'll just eat us right up. If it makes a U-turn, we're in trouble.
• 58:15
  Matt: Big time. Start slowing down? Big time.
• 58:18
  Terry Moore: It's slowing down.
• 58:19
  Matt: What?
• 58:22
  Terry Moore: It's slowing down, sir.
• 58:25
  Terry Moore: Yeah. My wife's favorite movie is Independence Day.
• 58:29
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 58:30
  Terry Moore: So, if there's anything fishy, she'll know it first.
• 58:32
  Tad Eggleston: Okay. Well, then you have to keep us posted.
• 58:35
  Matt: Yes, yes, please.
• 58:37
  Terry Moore: I… I'm so enamored with movies where something appears and just hovers over one of the cities.
• 58:44
  Terry Moore: And everybody is just like, what? And it kills me that even when there's something hovering over the city, the spaceship, or whatever.
• 58:51
  Terry Moore: There's always still cars driving. Did you not see it?
• 58:55
  Matt: Yep, they didn't.
• 58:56
  Terry Moore: There's still traffic on Main Street.
• 58:58
  Matt: Don't look up.
• 59:00
  Tad Eggleston: I see it, but they've got an appointment to get to.
• 59:04
  Terry Moore: Yeah, there's still tech… taxicabs running and stuff like that.
• 59:09
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, just because we might get annihilated is no reason to be late for lunch.
• 59:15
  Matt: Exactly.
• 59:18
  Terry Moore: I gotta get this thing returned to Amazon before the spaceship lands.
• 59:22
  Matt: That's right!
• 59:23
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, they won't have time to actually, refund you, though.
• 59:27
  Matt: Right.
• 59:28
  Terry Moore: -
• 59:29
  Tad Eggleston: Well, they're gonna get a nasty email from me.
• 59:34
  Terry Moore: You know, what if the aliens land and they're wonderful?
• 59:38
  Tad Eggleston: I think they would be.
• 59:40
  Tad Eggleston: Actually, that's…
• 59:41
  Matt: Not getting worse than us.
• 59:43
  Tad Eggleston: One of my favorite… one of my favorite comics recently is… is Money Shot by… by Tim Seeley, and… and a number of other people, where essentially the premise is.
• 59:56
  Tad Eggleston: like, alien life form came to Earth.
• 1:00:00
  Tad Eggleston: And… decided that we weren't worthy.
• 1:00:04
  Tad Eggleston: And went away?
• 1:00:07
  Tad Eggleston: Rather than giving us, like, the cures to things and whatnot.
• 1:00:11
  Tad Eggleston: But then, like, the bunch of scientists that, like.
• 1:00:16
  Tad Eggleston: were part of the reason that they'd come to Earth, because they'd managed to crack
• 1:00:20
  Tad Eggleston: interstellar travel, blah blah blah, were having funding issues, and they figured out that the best way to make
• 1:00:29
  Tad Eggleston: make the money to do their… their science was to… to have a porn site of…
• 1:00:35
  Tad Eggleston: Of them doing things with aliens, and hence Money Shot.
• 1:00:39
  Matt: Makes sense.
• 1:00:41
  Terry Moore: True.
• 1:00:42
  Tad Eggleston: And it's wickedly satirical and… and… whatnot, all at once.
• 1:00:48
  Terry Moore: It'll never be as good as the sex scene in the pro.
• 1:00:51
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, no, that's… that's…
• 1:00:54
  Terry Moore: Classic, legendary.
• 1:00:56
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:00:58
  Terry Moore: That's the watermark, the high mark.
• 1:01:00
  Tad Eggleston: I, I, I, I think, I think my favorite part of that is, is when he flies up to save the plane, and, and the kid looks out the window and goes, Mommy, is that… Cover your eyes!
• 1:01:18
  Tad Eggleston: My god, woman, move your head!
• 1:01:24
  Terry Moore: It's so…
• 1:01:25
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, no.
• 1:01:25
  Terry Moore: know these things.
• 1:01:29
  Tad Eggleston: Amanda Connor does just fantastic work.
• 1:01:33
  Terry Moore: So, Matt, you have a sparker tattoo?
• 1:01:37
  Terry Moore: On your own?
• 1:01:38
  Matt: No, I wish I did. No, I've got Spider-Man with his Spider-Sense, and then I've got…
• 1:01:43
  Matt: just regular Spider-Man. I'm gonna fill all this in.
• 1:01:47
  Matt: with… Comic panels and villains and stuff, but…
• 1:01:51
  Tad Eggleston: Well, I mean, you got… you got Parker on either side, so you need a Parker girl in between, I'm just saying.
• 1:01:56
  Matt: I… maybe I'll throw the tulip in there, or the flower, I'm sorry.
• 1:02:01
  Terry Moore: If you do that, you'll have…
• 1:02:04
  Terry Moore: strangers walking up and doing the secret handshake, because there's quite a little group of covert Parker girls out there.
• 1:02:14
  Terry Moore: We should have a convention of just Parker Girl.
• 1:02:17
  Terry Moore: People with Parker Girl tattoos.
• 1:02:20
  Terry Moore: I bet we could get, like, 30 people at the convention.
• 1:02:23
  Tad Eggleston: I bet you.
• 1:02:24
  Terry Moore: I'm eating pizza with pepper on it.
• 1:02:26
  Matt: Soon to be 31.
• 1:02:28
  Terry Moore: 31.
• 1:02:32
  Tad Eggleston: Alright, Terry, last question. Tell me something you love. Preferably a comic, but we don't have rules.
• 1:02:41
  Tad Eggleston: Preferably storytelling, but again, with the rules.
• 1:02:44
  Tad Eggleston: But something you love.
• 1:02:46
  Tad Eggleston: That not enough people around you have experienced, and you need them to, because you want more people to talk about it with.
• 1:02:54
  Terry Moore: Alright, I'll give you one.
• 1:02:57
  Terry Moore: Spirit of Wonder.
• 1:03:03
  Terry Moore: Makinji Tsunoda.
• 1:03:06
  Terry Moore: T.S.
• 1:03:10
  Tad Eggleston: Spirit…
• 1:03:11
  Terry Moore: PSUT URL.
• 1:03:13
  Terry Moore: Published by Dr.
• 1:03:14
  Tad Eggleston: What is one.
• 1:03:16
  Terry Moore: Yeah, Spirit of Wonder from Dark Horse.
• 1:03:20
  Terry Moore: I became a fan of Kenji, before that.
• 1:03:24
  Terry Moore: Is… he's a very famous manga guy.
• 1:03:27
  Terry Moore: And… came up with this beautiful book, and it was absolutely charming. It's a story of a… just…
• 1:03:35
  Terry Moore: Sweet young lady named Miss Chyna, who runs a boarding house, and in the…
• 1:03:40
  Terry Moore: in the attic is a nutty professor and his, most handsome young assistant, who has sparks with Miss China.
• 1:03:50
  Terry Moore: And it's just a goofy domestic thing happening around this little boarding house in a very quaint area of Japan somewhere. And kooky things happen, and the inventor
• 1:04:01
  Terry Moore: Giants miss China crazy with all the crazy stuff going on. But at the end of the first issue, he gets her a peace offering because the invention he was creating managed to write,
• 1:04:17
  Terry Moore: Something… happy birthday, Miss China, on the moon.
• 1:04:22
  Terry Moore: And it's a full moon that night, and she gets to see it.
• 1:04:24
  Terry Moore: So, there's some magic to it, you know.
• 1:04:28
  Terry Moore: It's one…
• 1:04:29
  Tad Eggleston: Oh, it…
• 1:04:30
  Terry Moore: arming little manga stories I've ever read.
• 1:04:32
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, I'm looking at the cover here, and just loving it, so this just went high on my list of things to…
• 1:04:41
  Tad Eggleston: To track down and…
• 1:04:45
  Tad Eggleston: read, because, I mean, frankly, anything you recommend is gonna go pretty high on my list of things to track down and read, but…
• 1:04:53
  Terry Moore: That was maybe the last…
• 1:04:55
  Terry Moore: I went through a real manga period for 2 years before I started my career.
• 1:05:01
  Terry Moore: That was one of the last ones I read. I was reading other stuff, too, you know, like Sanctuary and all the other guys.
• 1:05:08
  Terry Moore: But then I read that one, and absolutely fell in love with Miss China and the whole setup, and I thought.
• 1:05:14
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 1:05:15
  Terry Moore: That's what I want to do with my story, is have a character that we could fall in love with.
• 1:05:19
  Terry Moore: And I, so I… he was very inspirational to me. The story is very charming.
• 1:05:26
  Terry Moore: And… and good-natured.
• 1:05:30
  Terry Moore: Might be a good, for people nowadays that are
• 1:05:34
  Terry Moore: That have… their nerves are a wreck to read something like that and take a break from the world.
• 1:05:39
  Tad Eggleston: Hey, like, we have a monthly book club called the… the,
• 1:05:48
  Tad Eggleston: Joy, Resistance, Hope, and Survival Book Club, where we pick out books For one of those purposes.
• 1:06:00
  Terry Moore: Either to get our mind off of the world, or to figure out how to survive and resist in the world.
• 1:06:06
  Tad Eggleston: Sometimes all of the above, but, like, this is already feeling like a winner.
• 1:06:12
  Terry Moore: Yeah, it's a win, and I don't know where I put the… thing, but…
• 1:06:19
  Terry Moore: Yeah, Kenji is really cool, and here's just an art book of his.
• 1:06:26
  Terry Moore: He's done so much, I… He's just a wonderful artist.
• 1:06:33
  Terry Moore: But the story is delightful.
• 1:06:36
  Matt: Hey, Terry, will you always do black and white, or will you do color stuff eventually?
• 1:06:44
  Terry Moore: I… when it's colored right, It's… it's a… it takes it to a whole new level.
• 1:06:51
  Terry Moore: But the reason I stayed black and white all these years was because I didn't have time to color.
• 1:06:56
  Terry Moore: You know, unlike a big house that's.
• 1:06:58
  Matt: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:07:00
  Terry Moore: So I stayed black and white, but would I do color in the future? I mean, we're really talking about… we've always talked about colorizing strangers in paradise.
• 1:07:08
  Tad Eggleston: That was actually gonna be… my follow-up question is.
• 1:07:11
  Matt: Well, if you're gonna start somewhere, start at the beginning.
• 1:07:13
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, no, there have been some really impressive colorization jobs done recently. I like what Stan Sakai's done with
• 1:07:21
  Tad Eggleston: Usagi, I like what Eddie Campbell did with From Hell.
• 1:07:28
  Terry Moore: And if you get it right, if it's done right.
• 1:07:31
  Terry Moore: It brings out the… the dimensions.
• 1:07:35
  Matt: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:07:36
  Terry Moore: into a 3D world instead of a flat world.
• 1:07:38
  Matt: Yes.
• 1:07:39
  Terry Moore: So it's good, but if it's wrong, and somebody just starts doing…
• 1:07:44
  Terry Moore: over-rendering and muscles and all that, that now you've got a nightmare. So, it really depends on who it is. It has to be somebody that's from
• 1:07:55
  Terry Moore: You know, the indie world and understands design, not just comic book coloring.
• 1:08:00
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 1:08:01
  Terry Moore: understands like…
• 1:08:05
  Terry Moore: modern art, 20th century art, and all the different art levels. When something needs to be, you know, from the 1920s or the 1950s, there's a big difference, you know. I don't want somebody that has spent their whole life coloring an image. There has to be somebody who's a painter.
• 1:08:23
  Matt: Yes.
• 1:08:24
  Terry Moore: A real painter who can… who's more talented than me, and… and really can paint re… real stuff, and…
• 1:08:32
  Terry Moore: Then they go back into something like cartooning.
• 1:08:35
  Terry Moore: And then they can just make it…
• 1:08:38
  Terry Moore: they can bring it to a level that I can only imagine.
• 1:08:42
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 1:08:43
  Terry Moore: I have a real… I'm real adverse to traditional comic book coloring, where everything's over-rendered, and…
• 1:08:48
  Terry Moore: A lot of times.
• 1:08:49
  Tad Eggleston: I don't blame you.
• 1:08:51
  Terry Moore: Sometimes the artist doesn't even really know anatomy as well as the artist, and they try to put it in there, and it's not right, and it's really.
• 1:08:57
  Matt: If you're…
• 1:08:57
  Terry Moore: an artist.
• 1:08:59
  Matt: If you're talking late 90s stuff, yeah, absolutely, but what about, like, the early, you know.
• 1:09:06
  Terry Moore: When it's flats.
• 1:09:07
  Matt: Yeah, CMYK, with the screens, and…
• 1:09:10
  Terry Moore: Finding stuff, yeah, yeah.
• 1:09:11
  Matt: Yeah.
• 1:09:12
  Terry Moore: I was… we were looking at comics,
• 1:09:15
  Terry Moore: Oh, when I did my last YouTube thing last weekend.
• 1:09:19
  Terry Moore: I went through my favorite comment box down here, and I was pulling out comics from the 90s, and I was having to tell… I felt compelled to tell young viewers
• 1:09:29
  Terry Moore: Guys, this was Photoshop 3.0. That's why all you're seeing is cuts.
• 1:09:34
  Terry Moore: And… but, on the other hand, look how clean it's printing.
• 1:09:38
  Terry Moore: So you're not with the 1960s offset press where nothing matches, and then…
• 1:09:44
  Matt: Your halftones are… yeah.
• 1:09:45
  Terry Moore: You were before the 90s, when a lot of half-trained people went crazy with their rendering.
• 1:09:54
  Terry Moore: And ruined all those drawings. I say that because I have experiences like that, like, from
• 1:10:00
  Terry Moore: when I did, oh, I don't know, Lady Supreme.
• 1:10:05
  Terry Moore: And I did a nice ink drawing, and then they sent it down to the Mike Diodato Studios down in South America, and it came back and they painted her up like a stripper with stripper boobs and removed my linework.
• 1:10:17
  Terry Moore: And ruined it. And it's been an embarrassment my whole life.
• 1:10:22
  Terry Moore: So… The colors…
• 1:10:24
  Tad Eggleston: You know… You know… Where a lot of great color was done.
• 1:10:30
  Tad Eggleston: earlier than a lot of places, was it milestone?
• 1:10:36
  Tad Eggleston: We've got a milestone book club, so we've been going through the old static and icon Whatnot, and, like…
• 1:10:47
  Tad Eggleston: Because they were determined to have… more realistic…
• 1:10:56
  Tad Eggleston: multicolored characters, not just all white guys, not all one hue for black guys, that sort of thing. In general, they did a lot of…
• 1:11:09
  Tad Eggleston: Really fascinating color work, particularly for…
• 1:11:13
  Tad Eggleston: that, like, 93, 94, 95 era, where we were finally printing in a way where you could do slightly better colors than had been done in the United States before then.
• 1:11:25
  Tad Eggleston: But… Not a lot of people had, like, started… Truly taking advantage of it.
• 1:11:32
  Terry Moore: Yeah, I… when it…
• 1:11:36
  Terry Moore: If you had asked me this question 10 years ago, I simply would have said I would color it in a European style.
• 1:11:42
  Tad Eggleston: That was what I was gonna say next, is otherwise, Europeans have been doing fantastic colors for…
• 1:11:48
  Tad Eggleston: 30 or 40 years.
• 1:11:50
  Terry Moore: And if I had to give a quick description, that would be desaturated flats.
• 1:11:55
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 1:11:56
  Terry Moore: And you don't get tricky with the characters, and if you want to do blends, well, they can be on the landscape or the background, but you don't.
• 1:12:03
  Terry Moore: screw up the couch and the character. And I always had this fantasy, even in the 90s, that if you did color my people.
• 1:12:11
  Terry Moore: Like, my art, that it would be…
• 1:12:14
  Terry Moore: Flats on the characters, and then blends on the clothing, or cuts on the clothing, and just…
• 1:12:21
  Terry Moore: Super delicate blend, only two color blend on the skins.
• 1:12:25
  Matt: Things like that. I mean, I've really thought it through. Right.
• 1:12:30
  Terry Moore: My nightmare… I mean, I'm getting mad just thinking about it, but my nightmare is to get…
• 1:12:36
  Terry Moore: Somebody who has been coloring for 4 years, and they're just in there rendering everything, and every shadow, and all these muscles, and all that.
• 1:12:46
  Terry Moore: I hate it.
• 1:12:48
  Terry Moore: Really?
• 1:12:48
  Tad Eggleston: No, but this is the advantage of the fact that you do everything via Kickstarter now, is that you can totally…
• 1:12:55
  Tad Eggleston: Make the decision on who would do it if you decided to do…
• 1:12:59
  Matt: Absolute control. Yep.
• 1:13:02
  Terry Moore: You know, one of the problems that we ran into is there's a lot of frustration in black and white.
• 1:13:08
  Terry Moore: Over here…
• 1:13:12
  Terry Moore: Another girl.
• 1:13:15
  Tad Eggleston: God, I love Monarch Girl.
• 1:13:16
  Terry Moore: There's a scene in here where…
• 1:13:20
  Terry Moore: my character, Aunt Libby, is playing tennis with her friend.
• 1:13:24
  Terry Moore: And…
• 1:13:26
  Terry Moore: I'll show this to you, and I'll show you the frustration I had with it, because… it's somewhere in the middle of the story.
• 1:13:35
  Matt: My daughter, Isabelle, loves Motor Girl, by the way.
• 1:13:38
  Tad Eggleston: Water Girl is my favorite, too.
• 1:13:41
  Terry Moore: My wife's favorite.
• 1:13:43
  Terry Moore: It's a heartfelt story.
• 1:13:48
  Terry Moore: your shoes.
• 1:13:50
  Terry Moore: Okay.
• 1:13:51
  Terry Moore: this page.
• 1:13:53
  Terry Moore: is Aunt Libby, my cranky old lady.
• 1:13:56
  Matt: you mean?
• 1:13:56
  Terry Moore: My friend.
• 1:13:57
  Terry Moore: Well… If you see the drawing, You know, her friend doesn't… She's black.
• 1:14:07
  Terry Moore: But that doesn't show in the drawing. And…
• 1:14:10
  Terry Moore: So that's the most visible problem that I had with, like, I have… everybody in here is a different color.
• 1:14:16
  Tad Eggleston: Right.
• 1:14:17
  Terry Moore: just doesn't show in black and white. The advantage of that is it makes you focus on human beings and what they're saying, as opposed to, like, giving you quick targets, like, oh, I just don't like people that color.
• 1:14:30
  Tad Eggleston: Right. Or they've even opened their mouth.
• 1:14:32
  Terry Moore: So there's an advantage to working in black and white. You strip it down to the human being.
• 1:14:37
  Terry Moore: But, the other problem that I ended up with that is a problem that still has no answer.
• 1:14:44
  Terry Moore: And I brought it up a couple of times in panels, and everybody just sits there with a blank look on their face. They've never thought about it.
• 1:14:52
  Terry Moore: Would you like to hear it?
• 1:14:55
  Matt: Absolutely.
• 1:14:58
  Terry Moore: The tennis partner, is trans.
• 1:15:03
  Terry Moore: So, I drew her with the… Identity she wants.
• 1:15:10
  Terry Moore: Which means she doesn't look trans in a drawing.
• 1:15:15
  Terry Moore: So, if you and I were standing in front of her, eventually you might think, Well, she's trans.
• 1:15:23
  Terry Moore: But in a book, when you're drawing, how do you show… how do you say that? How do you show that? Because…
• 1:15:29
  Terry Moore: there are no other keys for your addicts. And one of the other things I did in my books, you may notice,
• 1:15:37
  Terry Moore: Speaking of sexual identities, males get rectangle balloons, females get round balloons.
• 1:15:47
  Terry Moore: And it sounds binary until you think it through.
• 1:15:51
  Terry Moore: Because… The trans lady gets the balloon she wants.
• 1:15:58
  Terry Moore: So, in that sense, I'm like.
• 1:16:01
  Terry Moore: You get what you want. You're a human being. If this is how you want to walk, that's your walk. If that's how you want to talk, that's your talk. So I'm standing united
• 1:16:10
  Terry Moore: But… I mean…
• 1:16:13
  Terry Moore: I guess in the sense that, finally, that only on the printed page does the translate get exactly what she wants, which is, I am a woman.
• 1:16:23
  Terry Moore: Cannot tell the difference.
• 1:16:25
  Terry Moore: Maybe it's actually a very beautiful thing.
• 1:16:28
  Matt: existing as she wants to be. Yep.
• 1:16:31
  Terry Moore: Exactly as she wants to be when you get her into her, into the story, so… but, how many trans characters have you seen in comics?
• 1:16:40
  Matt: Yeah, no.
• 1:16:42
  Matt: I can't…
• 1:16:44
  Terry Moore: How would… because there's a problem with how do you depict a trans character respectfully and with love.
• 1:16:50
  Matt: Yep.
• 1:16:51
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, that's…
• 1:16:52
  Terry Moore: That's not true.
• 1:16:53
  Tad Eggleston: Or I'll go back to Milestone again, they had a trans detective, and…
• 1:16:58
  Tad Eggleston: Some people treated her very much with… with love, and…
• 1:17:03
  Tad Eggleston: Other of her co-workers didn't, but the character said it was trash.
• 1:17:07
  Terry Moore: When you say… and you don't mean just a short haircut and a suit?
• 1:17:13
  Tad Eggleston: No, I mean, she was explicitly trans. In fact, she was also written by Maddie Blaustein, who was also
• 1:17:21
  Tad Eggleston: Trans, and coming out as trans at the time.
• 1:17:26
  Tad Eggleston: So I don't even know if Maddie was writing as Maddie yet.
• 1:17:34
  Tad Eggleston: when… She wrote that comic.
• 1:17:38
  Terry Moore: I have a feeling.
• 1:17:40
  Terry Moore: Speaking of artists, that Jeff Jones Was always drawing himself.
• 1:17:47
  Terry Moore: As a woman.
• 1:17:48
  Terry Moore: All that beautiful Jeff Jones art.
• 1:17:51
  Terry Moore: You know, who's one of the first artists I can think of that was
• 1:17:55
  Terry Moore: Trans in the modern era.
• 1:18:16
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah. Like, Jeff to me.
• 1:18:18
  Matt: It's almost got a Maxfield Parish feel to it.
• 1:18:21
  Terry Moore: Well, I mean, he's… he's… he was just absolutely… Fucking brilliant.
• 1:18:28
  Terry Moore: One of my very first heroes in art.
• 1:18:32
  Terry Moore: But I think, whereas originally he started off
• 1:18:38
  Terry Moore: doing more Frazetta things and things like that, but he eventually found his own voice, and… or her own voice, I should say, because then he changed.
• 1:18:50
  Terry Moore: But, I have a feeling he was painting his… His mental landscape.
• 1:18:56
  Terry Moore: This is how I want to walk through the world. This is how I want to be seen in the world.
• 1:19:01
  Matt: This is how I will present myself, yes?
• 1:19:03
  Terry Moore: Yeah, yeah, so even it took him years to come up with…
• 1:19:06
  Terry Moore: You know, the decision to do that, the courage to do that, so…
• 1:19:10
  Terry Moore: Pretty amazing. But it's tricky. The sexual conversation is very tricky in the world of art when you're talking about portrayals.
• 1:19:19
  Matt: Oh my god.
• 1:19:19
  Terry Moore: We all thought it was much easier when, oh, okay, well, I… I think I know a lesbian when I see one, but how do you know…
• 1:19:27
  Terry Moore: A trans person, when you see one, you're not supposed to… centerize, or…
• 1:19:33
  Terry Moore: Characterize, or just, what's the most respectful, loving way to do that?
• 1:19:40
  Terry Moore: And you have to be honest to what they want.
• 1:19:43
  Terry Moore: Not to where they came from, but where they're going, I guess.
• 1:19:46
  Matt: And unfortunately, most people aren't raised to do that.
• 1:19:50
  Terry Moore: No.
• 1:19:51
  Terry Moore: No, most… yeah.
• 1:19:53
  Tad Eggleston: Though there are a surprising number of comics to help them.
• 1:19:57
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah. Trans identity has become… Particularly in the indie comic world.
• 1:20:05
  Tad Eggleston: I mean, it's a safe place. It's… A way to tell stories.
• 1:20:11
  Terry Moore: You know, when you look at, the animal world.
• 1:20:14
  Terry Moore: and the world of creatures on this planet. We love all the in-betweens.
• 1:20:19
  Terry Moore: variations.
• 1:20:21
  Terry Moore: How in the world do you think you can get, you know, 4 billion people and not have variations is beyond me.
• 1:20:26
  Matt: Exactly.
• 1:20:27
  Terry Moore: Just, it's not for me.
• 1:20:28
  Matt: The world is a spectrum, it is not binary, for God's study.
• 1:20:32
  Tad Eggleston: And we hit 4 billion people, like…
• 1:20:35
  Tad Eggleston: 100 years ago, we're at $8 billion now, so, I mean…
• 1:20:39
  Terry Moore: Okay, that's not my fault, I'm just saying.
• 1:20:42
  Tad Eggleston: I mean… I had nothing to do with it. I learned some things.
• 1:20:46
  Terry Moore: It had nothing to do with that. I think a lot of that was Mick Jagger's fault, so…
• 1:20:51
  Tad Eggleston: Okay.
• 1:20:51
  Matt: Or Keith Richards, I don't know.
• 1:20:52
  Tad Eggleston: Yay.
• 1:20:53
  Terry Moore: That was the Rolling Stones' fault. Oh, the rock star. We probably gained 3 million people during the rock industry,
• 1:21:00
  Matt: Probably.
• 1:21:02
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah.
• 1:21:04
  Matt: Romy's alone.
• 1:21:09
  Tad Eggleston: Well, Terry, it is always a pleasure,
• 1:21:14
  Tad Eggleston: Definitely have to have a meal when you're in Chicago next year. Send Matt your sketch, because then we'll make t-shirts, and I'll deliver them from Chicago next year.
• 1:21:22
  Matt: Chicago next year, I'll try and be there.
• 1:21:25
  Tad Eggleston: I made a silver note.
• 1:21:27
  Terry Moore: This sends you, send you one.
• 1:21:31
  Terry Moore: Catch.
• 1:21:32
  Terry Moore: And you said it…
• 1:21:32
  Tad Eggleston: go and sketch.
• 1:21:34
  Terry Moore: And I get the one that you made just right now.
• 1:21:37
  Terry Moore: Okay.
• 1:21:39
  Terry Moore: The self-portrait?
• 1:21:41
  Tad Eggleston: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:21:41
  Matt: madness.
• 1:21:43
  Terry Moore: I could go with a Picasso thing and say it took me my whole career to learn how to draw like that.
• 1:21:47
  Tad Eggleston: Sure.
• 1:21:49
  Matt: You wouldn't be wrong.
• 1:21:54
  Tad Eggleston: Getting better.
• 1:21:56
  Tad Eggleston: It has been a… it's always a pleasure, Terry.
• 1:21:58
  Matt: Absolutely.
• 1:21:59
  Terry Moore: Thanks, gotcha.
• 1:22:00
  Tad Eggleston: I love that you keep being willing to come back. For 22 panels, this has been Terry Moore, and Matt, take us out.
• 1:22:08
  Matt: We'll continue after the next page.