Latest / FINE is a 4-Letter Word / 94. Reclaiming Identity: Amanda JP Brown on Overcoming Shame and Embracing Change

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94. Reclaiming Identity: Amanda JP Brown on Overcoming Shame and Embracing Change · FINE is a 4-Letter Word

• 0:03
  Lori Saitz: Welcome to FINE is a 4-Letter Word, the podcast that empowers you to say fuck being fine. Tired of being stuck in a place where you say everything's fine when it's really not fine at all. You're not alone. I'm your host, Lori Saitz. I've been there too, and so have my guests. Here's a secret. All it takes is a conscious decision to change and then restructure beliefs so your actions take you in the right direction. That's where FINE is a 4-Letter Word comes in. Each week, you'll hear inspiring stories from people who have transformed their lives and businesses and practical tips and takeaways to move you from spinning in place to forward action so you can create a life of joy. Thanks for tuning in. Let's get started. Hello there, my friend. Today's conversation is with Amanda, JP Brown, a licensed clinical social worker. Amanda is an author and transformational life coach specializing in guiding individuals through the tumultuous journey of divorce and shedding the burden of shame. Her book, You're Brave Enough Eight Daily Practices to Be Your Own Hero is a guide for moving from the darkness of shame and self rejection to owning all of who you are confidently. Amanda learned early on the importance of embracing individuality, understanding diverse perspectives, and nurturing a spirit of creativity and exploration. However, even with that understanding, her path wasn't always smooth. As a teenager, Amanda grappled with substance abuse, a heavy load of shame and toxic relationships that caused her to compromise her own perspective. Amanda's What the fuck moment came during her first marriage when she realized she'd lost her sense of self. Ever had a moment like that? Amanda's path back to self-acceptance began when she saw herself repeating the same patterns in her second marriage.
• 2:13
  She started working with a coach, improving her body, and further solidified the transformation by moving to the ocean. Far from everything she knew, she wanted to own her story. In this conversation, we talk about the importance of not seeking external validation, but instead tuning into our own feelings and preferences in relationships and life choices. Amanda also discusses the power dynamics in relationships and the importance of standing up for your needs and wants. As we weave through Amanda's story, we also touch on the subject of embracing change and the importance of trial and error in the journey towards self-assertion and confidence building. Of course, you can go to Zen rabbit.com to get your copy of the Short Guide to Working Less and Living Better. Also known as the Five Easy Ways to Start Living a Sabbatical Life. You know what else you can get there. The newly revised and released How to Feel Comfortable, Confident and Courageous at Networking Events Book. Look for the link that says Networking at the top of the home page or find the link in the show notes. Hello and welcome to FINE is a 4-Letter Word. My guest today is Amanda JP Brown. Welcome to the show. Thank you so much for having me, Lori. It's a pleasure to be here. Yeah. All right. Well, I know right before we started recording, I asked you if I needed to do the entire name of Amanda JP Brown. I love it. And you said yes. Yeah. Yes, because. Absolutely. Because that's kind of one. Amanda Brown is just so out there. It's so common. But JP was really significant for me.
• 4:02
  Amanda JP Brown: Because it's my middle and my maiden name kind of put together and really allows me to have a little bit more of my own identity.
• 4:09
  Lori Saitz: Yeah, I love that because then it's not like this huge long like, you know, 17 syllable name that you're like, it doesn't fit in the boxes on the forms and stuff. Like what? But it does give you added personality and differentiates you from all the other Amanda Browns.
• 4:31
  Amanda JP Brown: Exactly. Which is, you know, we're all a little different even if we have the same name.
• 4:36
  Lori Saitz: Yeah, 100%. So speaking of differentiation, tell me about the values and beliefs that were instilled in you as you were growing up.
• 4:46
  Amanda JP Brown: Oh, that's. Well, that's like a very open question. It is. Um, yeah, I love it. Uh, let's see. So there's so many different ones, but I think one of the big values was accepting people in their individuality and kind of really wanting to learn about their stories and who they were and, and really respect people's differences and that we all come to whatever we experience in our life through, um, our journey. And we end up where we end up because of what happened to us. And that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with us. So really, um, learning about people and their stories was a huge value. And valuing people's experience was something that I was taught as well as kind of creating your own individuality and really having this amount of creativity in your life. However that shows up, that can be a kind of loaded word for people, but really finding what is creative to you and really being able just to explore and dive into that.
• 6:00
  Lori Saitz: So how was that? How was that introduced to you? Like were you put in a whole bunch of different kind of classes, like see what you like and go play? Or was it more like open, like free range, go go out in the world and find your own thing?
• 6:17
  Amanda JP Brown: A little bit of both. A little bit of. Hey, you know, my dad was a musician and an artist and my mom, she was a baker and a creator and like a crafter. And, you know, so I have this really vast, like, experience between my parents. And they were encouraging us to go outside, to try things, to listen to different things. I was exposed to so many types of music. So when people ask me like, Well, what kind of music do you like? I'm like, everything. Like, it just depends. Like, what mood do I have today is what I want to, you know, what do I listen to? But my mom was really good about introducing us to different music and to different repertoires of things and to practicing things, but also play outside and use your imagination. Go explore the world and then also when I would be like show an interest in something, they'd be like, Well, try it. And then as soon as I got bored, I was allowed to go to the next thing because I would be like, okay, I want to try this. Okay, yeah, I'm good. Can I try the next thing? And so, but it was always that. Just go find out, try it out, see what you like, but never this.
• 7:39
  Like you have to stick with it forever. It was more of this. Try it, see how you like it. Then decide. And then you can move to the next thing when you're ready. Um, and so that was really one of the ways they explored that creative side and the other side with stories and about people's experiences. I remember, you know, my dad worked, um, I believe it was, I can't remember, I should ask him someday, but like at the YMCA or something. And, and we would get to go with him and learn about these people who stayed there. And sometimes we would have people who come to our house and for dinner and we would hear their stories. And my mom was really about that too, growing up. She was a social worker. And so understanding that people go through challenges and then make decisions and it doesn't take away from their, you know, dignity or to be treated with dignity and respect as a human. And that And so really, we had this vast understanding of people from a young age and that people have different experiences, different beliefs and values, and that doesn't mean anyone is. Better or worse, we're just different. And then how to cultivate conversation around that. Wow, that.
• 8:54
  Lori Saitz: Is so unusual and so, like, such a gift. And you probably thought everybody had that experience until you got older and realized that that was very unusual.
• 9:09
  Amanda JP Brown: Yes, very unusual. Most people don't have that experience. It's one of the things that through my own work of kind of becoming a therapist and working with families and going to trainings that we think the world is like how we grew up. And so for me, it was very different. And it doesn't mean there weren't without challenges or without, you know, struggles in my own life, but that core belief of everyone deserves to be treated with respect and dignity or everybody has a story worth listening to. And understanding somebody else's perspective is so valuable and important in order to bridge gaps and come together as humans. That is like so impactful. And I didn't really understand how unique it was until I got older and people didn't have those same experiences even going through college. Like I have a bachelor's in psychology and a master's in criminal justice and a master's in social work, all because I'm like, I want to learn it all. And then I kind of weave it together. That's not like typical people usually go one track and then just follow that and I'm kind of like, boom, boom, boom.
• 10:18
  Lori Saitz: Right, right. I think it was I think it was the book Dopamine Nation, because I don't think I finished reading it before I had to return it to the library. But I was reading it. I got most of the way through it. All right. I might have finished it. I can't remember. But the one.
• 10:34
  Amanda JP Brown: That's okay.
• 10:35
  Lori Saitz: No judgment. No, no. The one thing that stood out from it was she was talking about how we have what, 7 billion people in the world. Is it 7 or 8 now? I don't know. Many billion. Several billion and equal number of world views. So if you have 7 billion, you have 7 billion different ways, beliefs and views of the world, just what you're talking about. But people always think that their way is the way, and that's what causes so much conflict. Communication issues, conflict. All of these problems come from the whole idea that we think our way is the right way. And if you're not doing it that way, then it's wrong. And I don't understand where you're coming from. And yeah, all of that.
• 11:22
  Amanda JP Brown: Yeah, it's yeah, we can be speaking the same language, like we both speak English, but we're speaking two totally different dialects that do not mesh well. And I noticed that early on when I started to notice my parents have communication issues and I found myself kind of like mediating between, well, she's saying this, he's saying that. Can't you see that you're both saying the same thing? Because I really picked up on that, that we do all come with this different language. We and it's from macro our, you know, high cultural things all the way down to our individual family, micro space of our even our language within ourselves. And those interpersonal communication lines. And so absolutely, it's what creates a lot of conflict because it's a really hard to shift our narrative and our understanding to someone else's experience without being able to kind of just be open to going, Well, tell me more about that and really remaining without that, what how we define things of like, well, what do you mean by. And so and my mom was really good about asking us those questions, which probably helped me kind of understand that, okay, so that's your definition, but I'm seeing it this way. So tell me more like, or I see it this way, so I'm interpreting and filtering what you say through my own lens, and that is where a lot of our stuff does come from, the the miscommunications and inability, because we think we all define things the same way, but we don't.
• 13:01
  Lori Saitz: Yeah. So as you got older and into the work world or the, the world of being an adult of adulting, how did these, how did these beliefs and I know right? Can I take a nap now.
• 13:19
  Amanda JP Brown: Oh I laid down with my dog today like he's laying in the sun and like through the Arcadia door and I just like laid down. I'm like, oh, this is like, maybe I should do this more often.
• 13:30
  Lori Saitz: Maybe I'd like to be a dog. Yes. So, yeah. All right. So but now where was my question going? All right. No question. Was adult. Yes. As you got into adulting, were these skills and beliefs, how did they serve you or not serve you?
• 13:51
  Amanda JP Brown: Yeah. So. Oh, two great questions. So I'm going to talk to both of those because one serving me really helped me understand and look at different perspectives and work and build relationships with people because I was able to really learn how to perspective, take and perspective Taking is a skill that we have to learn to cultivate, which means kind of really being aware of our own biases, our own understandings, what we believe, and then being open to hearing someone else's. So one, it really helped me do that. It really helped me. When I work with families, it helped me shift between things because I was able to have those varied different experiences in college and graduate school. It also helped open my mind to different perspectives. So when there was one way of thinking and everybody was answering the same because it had a different perspective, a different education, I was able to say, Wait, what about this? And so it helped me kind of expand people's thinking and while having my expansion open so it wasn't where I was so grounded and rooted in this is the way because I had that value, I was able to say, Oh, well, show me your way and let me learn that. And because there is more than one way. However, on on the other side of that, when you don't have a solid sense of who you are, sometimes that means you're really susceptible to other people's opinions and other ways.
• 15:25
  So there was sometimes trying to find out, well, who am I in the context of all this other stuff was challenging. It was also challenging for me in relationships at times because I was so willing to take on that other person's perspective that I wasn't giving validation and space for my own perspective to be showing up in the relationship, which created a lot of conflict, a lot of risk sentiment and animosity, because I'm like, I can see your fucking perspective, but can we look at mine now? And, and that was really hard. And it was also hard for me to have that voice to say that it wasn't until I would get angry and resentful that then I would be like, Hm. And really? But it was because I was so good at looking at other people's perspectives. It made it harder for me to understand what mine was, what did I believe? And my core. What did I value in a relationship? What did I without other what did I believe? And so that has been something that over the past couple of years I've really dove into more. But it required me to kind of give myself more space to do that.
• 16:38
  Lori Saitz: Yeah, for sure. I can see, Yeah, I wasn't I didn't realize when I asked that question where you were going to go with that, but that's really good. How did you get to the place where you were able to give yourself space or realize that you needed to do that?
• 16:58
  Amanda JP Brown: Um, you know, part of it was through my own work and my journey of understanding. I had an experience of substance abuse when I was a kid. When I got in a teen, I had experimented in substance abuse, struggled with it for a while, and I carried a lot of shame around that. And so because of that shame, I really didn't share a lot about myself or my experience, and I didn't have a real good sense of my value and felt like I had to prove that a lot. So I really looked for external validation and a lot of my relationships and they led me into some very unhealthy relationships, some very not like my first marriage was extremely toxic and I kind of focused so much on whatever he wanted. I really didn't show up in the relationship. And so when that relationship ended, I was like, I'm never going to do that again. Like, I compromise so much of who I was that I almost lost the very essence of who I was because I was so rejecting of myself. And then fast forward a couple of years. I really didn't go to work like I didn't go to recovery work. I didn't do recovery work. I didn't do therapy after my marriage. I just went to school because school was safe. It was good. That was kind of, you know, my thing. I didn't have any problems, you know? Right.
• 18:33
  Lori Saitz: Kind of that Everything's fine here. There's nothing to see.
• 18:36
  Amanda JP Brown: Everything's right. We're fine. I'm fine. Yep. And so it wasn't until I got into my second marriage and things started playing out differently, subtly, similarly. And then I started doing some of my own work through, like, a bikini competition. I wanted to improve my body. I wanted to. So this is like some friends had did it. I thought, Oh, this would be fun. And the coach that I got was really a mindset fitness business coach. And so it was a really unique, eclectic combination of an individual, which is something that I love, the uniqueness of people bringing things together. And um, so, so I did that and I started finally doing my work and my journey through, um. Accepting who I was, accepting my story, owning parts of my story that I had been silent about. And so it started kind of there, that piece and really kind of figuring out what did I need to be comfortable and confident and okay with who I am, that that not just like I'm fine as a way to say, don't fucking talk to me because I might crumble to like, no, I'm really okay with who I am and I love who I am and I and, you know, accept her. Um, and so I started that journey. And it really wasn't until even after my second divorce that I was like, I am moving away from everyone I know to give myself this. I just felt this need to be by the ocean, to be away from people that I knew because I felt heavily influenced by all the the noise and I needed the space to like open up and breathe without the extra stuff to just kind of feel through it. And I would.
• 20:36
  Lori Saitz: Imagine to allow yourself to explore who you were as this person that nobody knew, like you were in a place where nobody had anything attached to who you used to be. So now you could be whoever you wanted to be and grow into who who you were becoming.
• 20:54
  Amanda JP Brown: Yeah. Yes, that's absolutely what it was. And I didn't have nobody had expectations of me. Nobody had any, you know, like you like this and and it really made it easier to go, what do I like to do? I can do anything. What do I like to do to be like, okay, you like to do this? Because in my last relationship, there was so many I had still given up so much of like, okay, you want to do this? Okay, we'll go do that. And, and there was this I knew that I wanted like example the ballet. Like I knew I liked it, but I never in a heartbeat would have ever asked my ex-husband to do that because I knew he would never go, because there were other things that I would say, Oh, I want to do that. And he's like, Yeah, I don't want to do that. And so it became this contentious thing of in our relationship, we go do all the things he wanted to do. And and because I didn't really ever have this sense of these are the things that I love to do and I want to make sure that we're engaging as a couple or I engage individually. And you support this. When I started to have that, that was part of the stress and the problems because that was starting. So yeah, now I get to just be, I get to explore, I get to play, I get to have fun, I get to discover. And then as I get into relationships with people, I get to show them who I am, which is a very different thing than any of the others. I'm very much looking at it and asking questions of Do I like spending my time with this person? Do I like doing these things with this person? Do I like trying this food versus like, I hope they like me? And so I'm going to try all these things to get that acceptance where it's like, No, I'm really happy and accepting of who I am. So now how does this person feel to me?
• 22:52
  Lori Saitz: Allow me a quick moment to thank you for tuning in toFINE is a 4-Letter Word. If you're enjoying the show, please take a second to hit the follow button so you don't miss an episode. And if you haven't already, I'd love it if you would leave me a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or Google Podcasts. Your feedback helps the show reach more listeners like you. FINE is a 4-Letter Word is available on all major podcasting platforms, so no matter where you listen, you can stay up to date with the latest episodes. Now let's get back into the conversation. As you're saying this, I'm in my head going through. I was working with a mentor, a student mentee, and we were talking about she was interviewing for grad school and I was talking to her about we were going over some of the questions that she could ask in that process. And I said to her, you know, you're interviewing them just as much as they're interviewing you. Don't let them have all the power. You have questions. You want to figure out if their campus or their program is a good fit for you just as much as they're trying to figure out whether you are a good whether they should admit you or whatever. And so it's it's like that same process. We think about it in terms of interviewing for jobs or grad school or that kind of thing. But what about just in life, like you just said, like you don't have to be friends with everybody just because they start talking to you or get into a relationship with somebody just because you know they like you doesn't mean you have to like them. Like.
• 24:34
  Amanda JP Brown: Right? Yeah. And to really see, is this a good fit for me? How do I feel in this? Like, I love that because we're not we do talk about it. I think it's more talked about now. I love that you did that with her in grad school because I didn't know that when I went to grad either.
• 24:51
  Lori Saitz: I didn't go to grad school. But but it just in college and in like interviewing for the first few jobs, even like I didn't know, I felt like I felt like I was this big. And they're like, they have all the power.
• 25:04
  Amanda JP Brown: Yeah, exactly. In that power dynamic. So yeah, it's really taking that back and going, No, I have just as much right to decide if I want to be here, if I want to be in this, if this works for me and really knowing what. So before we can do that, we need to know what does work for me, what do I need? And I think those questions are so important for us to discover for ourselves as we become adults, and we really don't know those early on. So we're jumping into careers, into relationships so early. Yeah, I work with a lot of people who are going through a divorce and many of them met their partners in high school or grad college and they were so young and they didn't have these models and didn't really know. And so now ten, 20 years later, they're going through this redefining and rediscovering of who they are. That is shifting their relationships often drastically early. And it's it's hard because we go back and we go, oh, man, if I only would have known or I can't believe I didn't. And it's like, we don't know what we don't know until we know it. Right, Right. And so we got we got to let go of the judgment.
• 26:19
  Lori Saitz: And have grace with yourself because and I remember my mom saying to both my brother and to me, like she was recommending that we not get married before we were 30. Okay. So I kind of followed that. But but I met my husband when I was 23, so. Okay. So we didn't get married, but we were still together because you don't know who you are. Like, she was 22 when my parents got married. They were 22 years old. How do you you don't know who you are. And then even though. So okay. Even though I waited until I was almost 30, you know, 25 years down the road from that, I'm looking at it going, okay, but now I'm a different person than I was then. So even if I knew who I was then I'm not that person now. And now. That's why we're not together anymore.
• 27:11
  Amanda JP Brown: Yeah, totally. You never. I was just talking to somebody about this the other day. You never leave or break up or end a friendship with the same person you started that with. And you're not the same. And they're not the same. Even as many times as people will say they don't. I'm the same. No, we've changed. It's not the same. We've discovered more things about ourselves, about each other, about the relationship. We're constantly becoming something because of our experiences. Yeah.
• 27:41
  Lori Saitz: Yeah. It's unavoidable. No matter how much you don't want to change, you can't. Not. You can't not. Absolutely. Yeah, I'm thinking No. Yeah. Every time we're, like, talking and then, like, all these thoughts are going through my head, I'm like, Well, you know, one of my favorite artists, Pink, came out with a new album a few months ago, and she was doing a ton of media touring, of course, to promote. And one thing she said in almost in every interview I listened to was I'm never not grateful. So it just reminded me we're never not changing, never not grateful. I love that she is so grateful and that she said that. But yes, we're never not changing. She's fabulous. She is. I'm going to see her in her first her first US show in is in Cincinnati in July, and I have tickets for that, so I'm super excited. Exciting.
• 28:35
  Amanda JP Brown: Congratulations.
• 28:36
  Lori Saitz: Have you ever seen her? We're going off on a tangent. No, not well. Yeah. No.
• 28:41
  Amanda JP Brown: Yeah. No, I would love to. I mean, I've seen, like, her video, like, you know, on HBO or whatever, one of those specials. But never and never live. But it would be if.
• 28:52
  Lori Saitz: You can get tickets for this summer's summer fall tour. I highly recommend. I saw her five years ago at and Best Show ever because it is a show.
• 29:05
  Amanda JP Brown: It is nice.
• 29:06
  Lori Saitz: I'm going to say. Yeah. All right. So back to what we were talking about. You in our pre show interview talked about a moment your what the fuck moment when you said, I can't believe this can't be my life.
• 29:25
  Amanda JP Brown: Yeah. This can't be my life. I do remember that moment in my. Yeah, it was when my first marriage was kind of coming apart, and I. I mean, at least I think that's what that moment was. I think I think.
• 29:43
  Lori Saitz: I have another note here that says Unhappy in relationships.
• 29:47
  Amanda JP Brown: Yeah, it was it was, um, you know, there was a lot happening. I'd been married almost five years at that point. I'd met this person right after a serious breakup with somebody who I thought I would spend the rest of my life with and was in love with. And he broke my heart. And, um, I ended it. But my heart was broken and it was bruised and it was not healed. And. And I was like, I want everything different. I want nothing like him. I'm going to get the complete opposite. Um, and in that I really didn't heed anything, um, of myself. I didn't pay attention to things. I didn't even know what to look for half the time. And, and people who gave me advice, I'm like, What do you know? You're like 40 and you've been married three times. You can't possibly know what you're talking about. I look back and go, Wow, that was yeah, that was something.
• 30:50
  Lori Saitz: We have to learn from our own experiences.
• 30:53
  Amanda JP Brown: We do. And I was that kid. I could not heed somebody else's advice. I needed to experience it. And oftentimes my mom will tell you I would be like six months later, Well, I guess I should have listened to what you said, Um, because you were right. Um, but it was. I was. We had just split up, and I was walking into this party that they had for me where I worked because I'd been there five years, and it was the all-American girl apple pie and ice cream party. This was this can't and and I was like, this is not who the fuck is this? Who is this girl? Who is this for? I don't even know her. And it was because I'd taken on so much of my ex-husband that I had no, I did not show up in the relationship. I compromised. I gave away a lot of my pieces of myself because it was easier to be enmeshed in that relationship and safer to be enmeshed in that with him than it was to assert my independence. But I was like, What the fuck is happening? This can't be my life. This isn't the direction I want to go. I don't want to be in a relationship where I'm not present. And so that was a huge, a huge piece for me in that sense of changing the course of, um, that relationship and really like solidified, like we had split up just shortly before then. And that solidified for me that I could not sustain that relationship, even though I kind of said, Well, maybe we'll work it out. I knew in that moment, Fuck that, I'm done. I want to show up. I want to be who I am. I want to be seen. And it still took me several years to figure out how to do that. I mean, that really took a whole nother relationship and divorce to really get to the place to show up and be living in a space that is my own. That is, I can understand who I am.
• 33:09
  Lori Saitz: Yeah, It's so interesting to me that it takes most I don't know. I don't know most. It takes a lot of people. So much time to become who we are. Yeah. It's like a whole lifetime, probably.
• 33:26
  Amanda JP Brown: I think so. Yeah. I mean, I know just developmentally there's so many things that we go through figuring out, discovering, so worried about all kinds of things. And then we hit kind of there's this magic period that people talk about, especially for women, but men go through it as well. You know, late 30s, early 40s, there's this real huge developmental shift where we're like. Boom. No, fuck that. That's not me. I'm not going to put up with that. And we really do start asserting a little bit more of who we are. Little by little. By little. By little. Through that time period. And really kind of. Feeling more confident. And I think a lot of that is that part of our lifetime is becoming who we are, is feeling more confident in who we are by accepting more of that. And it takes time to figure all of those things out, to test and to let go of and to try and to be like, Nope, that didn't feel right. And really, that process of of going, how does this feel on me? No, it's like going with a bunch of clothes to the closet and like trying things on and then walking away with three things. Right?
• 34:36
  Lori Saitz: Right. And I would even say you said late 30s, early 40s. I would say even later, at least from the people that I've been talking to. And my personal experience is was was not really until 50.
• 34:51
  Amanda JP Brown: Yeah, I think it starts sometimes then, but it really doesn't mature and like, yeah, step into until you get older because you're just starting to unravel that. But it really does pop out later.
• 35:03
  Lori Saitz: Yeah, yeah, you might start feeling it, but you're like, No, no, no, Again, it's fine. I'm fine. It's all good.
• 35:11
  Amanda JP Brown: I can do this. Like I can stay in this space. And then you eventually, like, nope, can't do that.
• 35:18
  Lori Saitz: Yeah, exactly. Uh, cool. Well, I mean, this conversation has been so enlightening. Just like magic. Thank you. Thank you. Enjoyed it.
• 35:33
  Amanda JP Brown: Yeah. Absolutely.
• 35:34
  Lori Saitz: Before we go, the question, because you said you said you like so many different kinds of music, but I'm going to pin you down to one song. What's the one song that you listen to when you need an extra boost of energy? What's your what's your hype song?
• 35:50
  Amanda JP Brown: Okay, my hype song. So it comes from when I was a kid still. And it is from one of the movies that I wasn't allowed to watch, but I secretly would try to watch it all the time. And it is from Flashdance and it is called What a Feeling. Oh yeah. And so I for me, that is oops, I was just going to tell you who it was. By Irene. Cara It's by Irene. Cara Yeah. So for me that is a huge song because it really is about coming into your own, coming into who you are and really just embracing that, embracing what you want to do in your life. And that has been, especially over the past year, like the song that's dropped in for me, but it's been in the background like since I was, what, probably 6 or 7? Awesome.
• 36:44
  Lori Saitz: I love it. I'll put a link to that in the show notes. And then if people want to continue this amazing conversation with you, where is the best place for them to find you? Yeah.
• 36:55
  Amanda JP Brown: The best place to find me is on Facebook at Amanda Brown or over at my website, which is also just Amanda brown.com. Cool.
• 37:04
  Lori Saitz: I'll put links to that in the show notes as well. All the good stuff is there. Awesome. Amanda Brown, thank you so much for joining me today on FINE is a 4-Letter Word. Thanks so much.
• 37:16
  Amanda JP Brown: Yes thank you so much. I enjoyed being here.
• 37:22
  Lori Saitz: I had so much fun in this conversation with Amanda. Jp Brown If it's relevant for you, go get a copy of her. Freebie How to Survive the Early Days of Divorce through the link in the Show Notes. We forgot to mention that in our conversation. All right. Now here are the key takeaways. Number one, don't rush your journey of self-discovery. It takes time to test, let go and figure out what truly feels right for you. The process resembles trying on various clothes until you get the perfect fit. It's okay to try on different things until you find what truly resonates with you. Number two Perspective taking is a skill you learn to cultivate. That means being aware of your own biases, your understanding of the world, your personal beliefs, and then being open to hearing someone else's at the same time. Seeing other's perspectives doesn't mean you have to override or invalidate your own. Number three pay attention to your feelings and emotions. They are signals indicating what feels right or wrong for you. If something doesn't feel right, don't hesitate to let it go and move on to the next thing. Number four Change is inevitable. No matter how much you want to stay the same, you are constantly evolving because of what you experience every day. Number five It takes courage to stop looking to others for validation and find your own sense of self-worth beyond what others think of you. Going back to Pink songs, by the way, Courage is one of my favorites. Thanks for listening to FINE is a 4-Letter Word. If you've enjoyed the show, please follow and share it with a friend. Leave a review on Apple Podcasts or your favorite platform to help others discover it too. You can find links to my socials on my website Zen rabbit.com. And before you go, take a moment to reflect on what you're grateful for today. Remember, you have the power to create a life you love, and I'm proud of you. Thanks for joining me. Take care.