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Secrets to Raising Emotionally Healthy Grandkids: Kenneth Barish on Listening, Kindness & Resilience · It's A Grand Life

• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to It's a Grand Life, where our mission is to be a voice for grandfamilies and kinship caregivers everywhere.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Did you know that in the United States alone there are 2.3 million grandparents raising their grandchildren?
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: 2.3 million.
• 0:26
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• 0:30
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• 0:35
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• 0:49
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• 0:56
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• 1:01
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• 1:07
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• 1:18
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• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to another episode of It's a Grand Life.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, my name is Craig Nash, and we'd like to welcome you to another It's a Grand Life, and we are going to have a grand time today on It's a Grand Life.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: We've got Dr.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: Kenneth Barish, a PhD, and clinical professor of psychology at the Wild Cornell Medicine Center, and a fellow with the American Psychological Association.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: But bigger than that, his focus has been on grandparents raising grandchildren and parenting in general.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, as I was telling Dr.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Barrish before we went on the air today, when I talk to grandparent organizations, the number one issue that they tell me that grandparents are wrestling with is this whole idea of behavioral health.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: So uh Dr.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: Barrish, welcome to To Grand Life.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: We're delighted to have you.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: And uh can't wait to hear about the question.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm uh delighted to be talking with you.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for inviting me.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my pleasure.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: So uh um there's a lot of folks that write books about parenting, but very few talk about grandparents.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: But that's a subject that you've taken head on in your new book.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I did that because I'm a grandparent now.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of the things, a lot of the um the advice that I give to parents and that I've given to parents over the course of my career is is very similar to the advice I give grandparents, but grandparents have a unique role.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: And in some circumstances, of course, we have both roles um of parenting and grandparenting.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: So um so the idea for um writing about grandparent just came from my own personal experience of my two grandsons now, uh 11 and 8.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's so great.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh and um the you we did talk about a little bit uh before we went on the air about uh um oftentimes uh the the main issue of youth anxiety and depression and loneliness and all of the other psychological pressures that uh uh that kids are dealing with nowadays.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: And and um how do you address that with your patients and and their parents when they come to see you?
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I have a very simple idea about the most important thing that we can do as parents, as grandparents, as therapists, working with children and families, and that is we need to listen.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: The most important thing we do is need to do is to spend more time listening.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_02: And there's a lot of good advice uh for parents and grandparents, but a lot of it focuses on how to cope with kids' problematic behavior.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: And that's that's important advice, it's helpful, but before we do that, the most important thing is to spend more time listening.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: Because when we listen, kids learn to manage their feelings.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: They when they feel that someone is there who listens and understands, they they experience their feelings differently.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: There's less urgency to their feelings.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_02: They know that they may not always feel this way, at least not the same way they do now.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: So my first uh advice is always to listen.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: But isn't that hard to do when we're both holding on to our cell phones?
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_02: And we're it's impossible to do when we're on we're on our cell phones, right?
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: So making time to listen involves put away your phones, right?
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: And that is a big problem for kids and for us because we're always on our our phones.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, actually, one way to do it, um, well, there are many ways to do it.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but uh the I would let let me back up a little bit.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_02: First, before we talk about phones, the best way to engage kids in conversation is to take an enthusiastic interest in their interests, even if these are not the interests we would want them to be, right?
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: But when kids have an instinctive curiosity and interest in everything, and if we respond with our own enthusiastic interest in whatever their interests are, that's the surest way to be able to begin some dialogue and conversation and to develop, to begin to strengthen our relationship with them.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: So what you're saying, I think, Dr.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Barrish, is that if my granddaughter, who's 12, loves volleyball, and those volleyball uh tournaments are eight to twelve hours on a Saturday afternoon, I should just grin and bear it and engage with her at the end of the tournament and and uh and affirm her any way possible, right?
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh well, Craig, I'm even gonna go farther.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, yes, you should do that because of course she wants you there.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I've had kids uh whose parents did not come to their sporting events, uh, tell me with great sadness, all the other parents are there, right?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: Why isn't my father there?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: Why isn't my mother there?
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it's it's really important.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, but I would take an interest in volleyball and learn about volleyball.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: Even when you're not at those volleyball matches, read up on it, read the sports pages.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, um I uh I read this article about this this player and this game and this tournament that's going on.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: That that kind of interest.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: That is a great idea, and and uh that's why our backyard looks like a little volleyball court right now with the nets up and the boundaries and everything else, but but uh just engaging your grandchild and um in what they're interested in, that's just great advice.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: And um, do you see a lot of uh grandparents who are raising grandchildren in your practice?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um I've seen a few.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_02: Mostly I see grandparents who are helping out, right, right.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: But and just a few that are actually the primary uh caregivers to their grandchildren.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: And because when I talk to folks and through our podcast and through various organizations we're involved with, it's not only do the the grandchildren need to talk to a behavioral health professional because of the abandonment issues and all the other issues they wrestle with, but the parents as well.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we you know it it's been a long time since we uh made sure all the homework was done and made sure that the book report was turned in, all those library books got back there, and that we weren't spending too much time on our phones and what have you.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: And and and sometimes we can uh uh fight a little depression because of uh, you know, uh our friends are uh are down in uh Fort Myers uh for the winter, and we're uh we're sitting up in the Detroit suburbs dealing with the snow, but uh we're doing what's what's important.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: I've never met a grandparent yet who walked away from helping their grandkids when this situation presented itself to them because it will do anything for our grandkids.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um and we all need support.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: I agree with you completely.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: Our uh grandkids need support, we need support, and uh another piece of advice I would give is to become part of a community, and we we can't do this alone.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: We we did not evolve to raise kids or grandkids, we did evolve to have grandparents in kids' lives, right?
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_02: That was part of human evolution that that uh but we did not evolve to do it alone, and the loneliness that we we would experience and that kids experience it can be devastating.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: So becoming part of a community is so important because it also offers uh kids an opportunity to be in a helping role, to help others, which is uh great importance for their own emotional health.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: So we get support, they get support, they give support to others.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that's that's something that we don't think about often enough.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the the uh there's a tremendous need for community in our culture, absolutely everywhere.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know in fact uh I remember when the Wall Street Journal did a uh front page article about the loneliness epidemic a couple years ago, and it really hit the nail on the head.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm I just am very grateful when the parents of the um my granddaughter's friends are accepting of myself and my wife, even though we're a lot older than them.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: And the uh the uh uh being a grandparent, raising a grandchild is not a new phenomenon in our country anymore.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: There's 2.5 million of us out here who are raising grandchildren, and um and that so that's uh uh that's nice when society is a little more accepting of uh uh this type of life change.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um but what um you write about helping children develop empathy and kindness towards others.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um that sounds like a precursor to middle school, right there.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: How do it how to deal with the middle school culture?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: But um, how do you do that?
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_02: Well, um the first thing we do is we make sure that in our conversations with our grandkids or kids and grandkids, we're not only accepting of their feelings, but we're talking about other people's feelings.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um there's research on this, that the parents and grandparents who talk to their kids in a positive way are accepting of their feelings, but also talk about other people's feelings.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: Those kids develop more kindness and and are stronger in their moral development.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_02: And again, it's something that um we can uh unwittingly neglect.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: We're so concerned with listening to our kids about their feelings, it's also about other people's feelings, and we can practice kindness in our lives.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: Your granddaughter sees you uh and your wife talking, uh practicing kindness in in the everyday interactions uh in the course of uh of a day, right?
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_02: The clerk in the store, the teacher, the coach, um, other kids.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_02: So you become a role mode and a mentor for kindness.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: And uh how do you uh counsel grandkids being raised by their grandparents on how to deal with some of the bullying that's out there and and uh some of the name-calling that uh just comes out of nowhere?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: And and that it's there, these folk, these kids need a class on kindness.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, they do.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, in school programs where um kids are taught kindness, where kindness becomes part of the school program, there is less bullying.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: So um there's a great program that Vivek Murphy, who also wrote about, a surgeon, former U.S.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_02: Surgeon General, who also wrote about loneliness, talks about um a school program where kids are taught to be kind.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and kindness spreads.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: That from one kid to another, and from that kid to another, because they all experience how kindness feels.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: And kindness spreads throughout the school.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: So um it's a it's a very good thing.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: So there's less bullying in those schools.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um, kids understand another kid's feelings and are more likely to uh um to respond in a helpful way, but there's always gonna be bullying.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: So we do have to help kids.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_02: So here are a few things we can do when I'm talking in my practice, kids who are experiencing bullying.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: First of all, we have to let them know that this is something that happens, that it probably happened to us at some point in my life, in our lives, and it would certainly happen to me, so that they're not alone in this.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: This is something that happens especially in middle school, right?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_02: Middle school is prime bullying years, right?
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: Because all the all the middle school kids are insecure, and some of them will take out their insecurity by being mean to others.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: So this is something that that they go through so that immediately they feel less alone.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_02: Their feelings are accepted, and then to come up, help them come up with a plan to think together about okay, what do you think we can do you can do about this?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_02: Not to tell them what to do.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_02: This is a different kind of conversation.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: We should have a different kind of conversation with kids.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um, what do you think would work for you um to deal with this?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: How can you be assertive and um in a in a constructive way and not let this uh bullying uh get to you in the same way?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um my plan for kids when it comes my turn to suggest something is to say something very quickly back and then walk away.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not gonna let this get.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: So kids need to feel that they've done something, they have talked back to the bully, but not engaged, but then also walked away.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: So it gives them a sense of control, again, the sense that they have they have not just let this happen.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then and then to be helpful to other kids who are being bullied.
• 14:50
  unknown: Wow.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: But it starts with that different approach of engagement.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're asking them to really process, you know, what can you do here?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: What can you do to change this?
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: So you you want to uh maybe put a cork in the uh on the verbal abuse without escalating it, right?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: You want and uh we're not gonna get all mad and start pistacuffs in the the the school hall, but you we don't want to just be a victim either, you right, and to find that balance, right?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: Not to escalate.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's a good way to put not to escalate and not to be a victim.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: I did that's just really good.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's um what about the uh a recent situation happened in my my granddaughter's school where one of her fur friends started cutting herself and and uh rubbing on her skin to the point where it would bleed, and and things that uh um when I when you and I were in school, we we that would never even cross our mind to do something like that.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: But but in in in your practice, I'm sure you see a lot of that.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: And what what is the cause of that?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: And how can we come alongside these kids and love them and and help them to feel good about themselves?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_02: So you're absolutely right.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um when I was growing, when we were you were probably my age, right?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: So um, that um some of the problems that kids, teenagers are experiencing now uh were rare or non existent, right?
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: I just certainly knew nobody growing up who was involved in self-cutting, right?
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um uh anorexia and bulimia were were were there, but they were not nearly as prevalent as they are now.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_02: So kids are experiencing much more stress and much more emotional pain.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: So a kid who is is cutting is experiencing uh some emotional pain that they don't know how to talk about and they don't know how to get rid of.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: So we have to understand that pain, help them talk about it, um, and then get additional help um uh as they need it.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: But really, our our empathy for um what they're going through.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it could be again um not only bullying at school, but exclusion, humiliation.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: Um, it could be problems in academic work, it's usually a social, a feeling of of feeling left out.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um there's and this uh this problem has exploded because of uh social media, right?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: So uh whatever pain that they felt maybe during the school day in our day, well that ended when the school day ended.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: Now it's out there, it's it's out there forever, and they will begin to feel that whatever humiliation they felt is always gonna be there.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: So we have to understand that and help them talk, talk with them about it, help them understand that this is there's help for these painful feelings.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: And um, when they when you see this type of behavior, you do engage the parents?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: Uh yes, um, because it's the it's the kind of behavior that parents need to know about.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um uh if I'm working with a child in therapy, I have an agreement with the parents that I have to have some confidentiality and I don't inform them about every instant every instance uh of this kind of behavior.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's a very difficult uh problem for your granddaughter and her people.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, what does she do if one of her friends is engaging in any harmful behavior, in any self-harm?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: So uh, and that's that's something it's a case-by-case decision to be made, but something that she can come to you about.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very tough situation because they we don't have a lot of experience with I'm not a psychologist, I don't have a lot of experience with folks that are harming themselves, and and it it just as a uh um someone on the outside looking into a situation, it makes you sad because you know that the child is there's got to be hurting and it's in in his or her way, they're just reaching out and saying, you know, someone notice me or someone accept me.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: And um so you do have a good understanding of it, and that's a good way to begin talking with uh with your granddaughter about uh whatever her friends are um are going through.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_02: And another another way to do it is not to feel that we have to give the answer.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_02: This goes back to the kind of um engagement and problem solving that I was talking about before.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's really such a a more helpful way to have a conversation with kids rather than telling them our opinion and telling them what they should do, even if we're right, um, but to engage them in what's called a collaborative problem solving conversation.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like that.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, this is not my idea, I can't take credit for this.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: This is developed by Ross Green and Stuart Ablon at Harvard.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_02: Uh and the it's it's an alternative to the kinds of conversations we usually have with kids.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: And in a collaborative problem-solving conversations, very simple, three parts to it.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_02: We express some understanding of our child or grandchild's concerns.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: The word concerns is important.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, we're not talking about opinions, we're talking about concerns, very different, right?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: Opinions lead to arguments.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: Concerns can be talked about.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_02: So the concern for a kid might be feeling left out, or concern for a kid maybe just feeling overly stressed, or concern maybe that we're being unfair.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: How many parents or grandparents have not been told by their kids that it's not fair?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: I I tell my colleagues that if I want to get into a good conversation, if I want, if a kid is not opening up, not talking, if I want to engage them in conversation, all I have to do is ask them about something that's not fair, and they will all begin to talk.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so but so to acknowledge their concern and then to express our concern.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: Our concerns are often about safety, health, the rights and feelings of others.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: Those are our three main categories of concerns.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and then to ask the question we almost never ask, which is okay, I know you're concerned about this, this is your feeling, and this is what our concern is.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think we can do about it?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: To ask them, Green and Edwin say, invite them.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: them um to engage in problem solving what are your ideas and when we do that we've changed the channel we're now on a different channel they're on a different channel before they're in the channel of it's not fair you should let me do this or whatever the channel is right right now they're on a different channel and the channel is okay how can we solve this problem and we can use the collaborative problem solving method for screen time for example rather than just setting limits start with a conversation um or any anything that uh uh we are having some conflict with our kids or grandkids about um and uh when we do we're often surprised that if we ask kids well what do you think would be the solution to the problem their their ideas are not as unreasonable as we thought they might be right and it's much more successful so I I just love that the collaborative problem solving conversation and it it works way better than me saying this is how we did it when I was coming up this is this is how when I was raising my when I was raising your mom this is how we handled it but it grandpa that's a different time that was a different time and then I would joke with kids and say yeah like in the 1800s when I was growing up um and they're right because the stresses that they feel um are are uh actually much different and much greater than the stresses we felt because we had more community we grew up in when communities were stronger right we did not have phones we did not have social media um we did not have in some affluent um sections of the country tremendous pressure for academic achievement relentless pressure for academic the kids have feel that they have to be superstars in everything that they do right um and even if we say no I I'm I'm not gonna put this pressure on my my kids or grandkids they feel it anyway so there's so much more that they have to to deal with and um so if they say if your granddaughter says grandpa you don't know she's right and um you must know her because she says that all the time so but but uh our guest today on It's a Grand Life is the Dr.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: Kenneth Barish PhD and he's the author of I think his second book The Art and Science of Parenting and Grandparenting and raising emotionally healthy children in a challenging world and that book it looks like it's coming out on June 29th Doctor and uh um obviously uh you are you understand this world of parenting and grandparenting and and um I just want to encourage you folks at home you need to go out and get a copy of this book because uh uh it really addresses everything we're trying to deal with as we raise these grandkids but as I'm thinking about the collaborative problem solving conversation which is absolutely brilliant that is assuming Dr.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_02: Barris that I am not going to be emotionally worked up when I'm chatting with my grandchild is that right no you can be emotionally worked up you can but you're yeah but you're aware of it right and if you start getting emotionally worked up you can just say that say listen I'm getting worked up I'm upset um I have to think about this more and in in showing her that you can become upset but you can also manage that feeling you're again being a role model for her and this is really important in the the advice I give if you get really angry and you say something that's too angry or you really didn't understand what she was saying which of course you will always say right that you don't understand right it's not fair you understand um my daughter once told me uh mother of my grandchildren once when she was a teenager that I was the worst father in the world and and and that I don't give good advice the the first one I actually was pretty sure I was not the worst father in the world and the reason I was worst father in the world in her opinion is I wouldn't she was just received her driver's license and I would not let her drive on a major highway to go to the mall so um uh I was a little more hurt by the fact that she said you don't give good advice because that actually is my life's word but so they will say these things but if if um uh if we become too angry or don't understand it's really important to repair those interactions so to go to her at the end of the day and say listen you know we were talking today and I got really worked up and then I got angry and I want to apologize.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna apologize for being angry because you really weren't listening so of course I was angry but I want to apologize for being too angry and at that moment that's a moment of repair and her level of anger and resentment or whatever is still stewing in her immediately comes down and what they what she's learned there not only is that um you know that moment is over but that relationships can be repaired bad feelings can be repaired they don't last forever that's a really important life lesson so I think of the 10 minutes as the most important ten minutes of a child's day because you've repaired the relationship and repaired that interaction and that's a lot like um offering forgiveness or asking for forgiveness when you know um cleaning up that mess that uh so that you call it repair I love that and so uh before I let you go Dr.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Barrish I want to ask you about um if I am a grandparent or a parent and I'm raising uh my child or grandchild and I am really down emotionally because the uh I'm wrestling with a uh a child who's living on the streets of Detroit and and there's um there there's always some sort of loss in these grandfamily equations you know the the parents aren't around um how can I recharge my emotional batteries um this doesn't happen every day but it but the uh the times that uh that we're not feeling uh on top of our game and and and the clouds are a little a little gray outside how how do we handle that as grandparents trying to put on a positive face with our grands so the best way I can think of I'll be personal for you is to do this to do this podcast right because in doing that you're talking about the the sadness that you're feeling but you're also helping others right and help helping others and we should teach our our kids and grandkids this helping others is one of the best ways to help ourselves so being part of a community having we need somebody to talk to we need a community of people to talk to right so as I'm thinking about this podcast you are building a community you are you are helping others which um there's there's actually research on this and I'm just not making this up that when we give advice to others um it's really helpful to us so uh having your community to talk to um having important people in your life to talk to and and doing what you do to help others in in similar circumstances that is that is so good and you know uh when I look at the grandparent community grandparents raising their grandkids and then they're all over the country they're in every state of course there are Native American grandparents raising their grandkids there's there's there's suburban Caucasians like myself there's African Americans uh Hispanic folks every nation every political group but doctor in my findings I'd love to get your thoughts on this there's no division in the group of grandparents in this community trying to raise our grandkids I can call a Native American grandma in Oklahoma who's raising her nine year old grandson and she can talk to me about my 12 year old granddaughter from suburban Detroit and none of the issues that society wrestles with the conflict the division the separatedness we don't have that and it's it's a beautiful place to be I think that's a just a terrific uh I agree with you I think it's a terrific idea because there's so much division in the country actually the uh a book I published a couple years ago is about that is about how to uh bridge our political divide and we have better conversations uh with people we disagree with but the point you made that this is something that there is no division about right technically no no division rural urban ethnic racial religious it's um so that's a that's a really really important point yeah it uh it is and it's a great place to to be in a in a society where you can hardly watch the news without getting upset about something regardless of what channel you watch right but uh um I just want to thank you so much for being our guest here in It's a Grand Life and I wish you nothing but success with your latest book.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Now how many books have you written?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: Well actually this is my fifth um so I wrote a couple of books for child therapists.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: Okay excellent and then I wrote one for parents about 12 years ago because my daughter told me to she said Dad you know you're you you're in your book for child therapist you talk about how to help parents why don't you write a parenting book and then I wrote this book on on politics on how to have better political conversations which is really just an outgrowth all of it all of this is the outgrowth of the same thing.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's my daily work having conversations and listening and helping people on uh whether it's parents and children understand each other better.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: Do I have time for one more piece of advice that I'd really like to give you certainly okay um the I I believe in listening that's the first important thing.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_02: But there's another really really important thing which is play play is we should if uh and this is um this is what I relearned when my grandkids were born kids love to play um it's the first question that our grandkids would ask my wife and myself when we visited them or they came here ma, pa, can we play?
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: And they but what we've learned about play is it's also part of human development.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: Kids need to play and there's a movement to have there's less play in kids' lives now there's a movement to bring back play but one of the things that's neglected is how important it is for us to play with them.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_02: Kids whose parents and grandparents play with them are happier kids but they're also more cooperative kids because they learn cooperation through the play and they learn social skills.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: They actually learn how to get along with others because things don't always go the way they want them to go and they learn how to compete that so I would say and uh the research again shows this um just a short time playing with your kids every day is one of the best things you can do for them for you um and uh to promote their their social development and that that makes them happier they're more cooperative and they have better social skills.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly and we should look to do this every day yeah the in in some programs just five minutes a day helps kids be more cooperative I was I was stunned when I read that um so uh it and that's because they look forward to it and it's it's just good in every way that is absolutely great and grandma and grandpa were not too old to play with our grandkids for five minutes a day he didn't say 50 he said five and and it doesn't matter what kind of play you know some of the most time honored things that grandparents do playing chess and checkers cooking watch building with them uh telling stories tells the kids love our stories um young kids look up to us with a kind of awe we have a picture in our in the other room here of our son when he's one year old and his grandfather is reading to him and the look on his face really says it all and those moments are so important in kids' lives they remember them they look forward to them um and I I couldn't let the podcast go without giving that advice and that is just so good and and friends and this is going to be one of those podcasts you're gonna have to rewind it and listen to it again because it's just filled with just great counsel nothing but nuggets from an outstanding career of helping parents and grandparents and kids adjust to this crazy world we're in.
• 36:10
  unknown: Dr.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: Bears thanks so much for being our guest on It's a Grand Life I may read your political book and want to have you back on to talk about that.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds like something so timely.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean this I uh but uh just really appreciate all the work you're doing and uh um I hope you'll uh if you've ever thought about uh there's a group called Generations United that I'm part of out of Washington DC and they advocate for grandparents and intergenerational living and uh foster families and what have you you would be a phenomenal speaker at their next conference um which is uh next next year I don't know exactly where it is yet but um I think you would have just a lot of uh well everyone I know would want to be there so this um I just I just love the work you've done you've been a phenomenal guest and hopefully you'll come back and when you do your sixth book and keep us update us on the um we just got to get your daughter fired up about a new topic and away we go so so Craig uh thank you so much for having me I've really enjoyed it um and um uh I I hope it's been helpful and I I I so much respect the work that you are doing so I would be happy to be involved in any way oh sounds absolutely great and uh um so your book is out uh June 29th right the the art and science of parenting and grandparent parenting and will it be on Amazon and where any most it will be on Amazon yes so um it's probably uh it's there now for pre-order and wonderful so thanks again and uh we look to have you on uh sometime real soon to hear more about the art and science of parenting and grandparenting thank you so much doctor thank you Craig thank you for joining us today for It's a Grand Life It's a Grand Life provides vital content regulatory updates and subject matter experts that are committed to supporting the 2.4 million kids and their caregivers from every neighborhood every city every tribe and territory nationwide please subscribe to our YouTube channel or wherever you get your podcast and leave a review.
• 38:22
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• 38:27
  SPEAKER_00: As caregivers we are united in purpose we are driven by hope while providing strength for today and hope for tomorrow we are truly making a difference in while living the grand life.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: If you have a suggestion for a future episode please reach out to us but we'll see you next time for another It's a grand life thank you for joining us