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The Red Flags You Can't Ignore With A Prenup · Pursuit of Sassiness

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  Speaker 1: Hey guys, it's Kelly Kaloran, Benson Lemon with I Do
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  Speaker 1: Part Two.
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  Speaker 2: We're here with Courtney Robertson and divorce attorney, stellar divorce attorney,
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  Speaker 2: Dennis Vetrano. When we have some burning questions, about prenups.
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  Speaker 2: Let's get started. What are some red flags you should
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  Speaker 2: look for when reviewing a prenup?
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  Speaker 3: Oh God. I mean, I think there can be any
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  Speaker 3: one of a number of different red flags in terms
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  Speaker 3: of prenups, but I think here's the most important thing
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  Speaker 3: to keep in mind. Your situation, your situation, your relationship,
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  Speaker 3: let's not even call it the prenup or the divorce
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  Speaker 3: or your assets. Your relationship is its own thing. It
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  Speaker 3: will be different from everyone else's. There will be similarities,
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  Speaker 3: of course. You need to look at this prenup as
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  Speaker 3: a piece, an extension of the building of your relationship.
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  Speaker 3: It is transparency. It is knowing what you can expect
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  Speaker 3: from each other moving forward. I think we're so hyper-focused
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  Speaker 3: on the divorce and the money and who pays what.
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  Speaker 3: What do you expect from him or her? And what
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  Speaker 3: does the other person expect from you? That's what it
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  Speaker 3: comes down to. So if they say, hey, I'm in software,
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  Speaker 3: I'm in tech, I'm a multi-multi-millionaire. I make plenty of
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  Speaker 3: money and we've decided together, not I'm telling you, not
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  Speaker 3: I want you to do. We've decided together that the
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  Speaker 3: other person's going to be a stay-at-home parent. Then you
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  Speaker 3: got to know there's got to be transparency and there's
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  Speaker 3: got to be that expectancy for the what if. And
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  Speaker 3: I think how people approach these terms and these prenups
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  Speaker 3: will speak volumes about who the person is at their core. So,
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  Speaker 3: and I don't think it's really a place where you're
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  Speaker 3: making major judgments, but you can make a number of
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  Speaker 3: different observations and really just process what's going on here.
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  Speaker 3: So I think, you know, we're always thinking it, well,
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  Speaker 3: back up a little bit. I'll share a quote that
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  Speaker 3: my mother-in-law shared with my wife when she was dating
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  Speaker 3: before we met. Said, you should choose with your head,
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  Speaker 3: not your heart. And I know that's very difficult for
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  Speaker 3: people to focus on. And, you know, it's always, we
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  Speaker 3: always want the, you know, the fairy tale, and I
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  Speaker 3: get it. But sometimes, actually most of the time, from
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  Speaker 3: my perspective, choose with the things you know you need
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  Speaker 3: out of another person that you know you want and
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  Speaker 3: expect out of life. And the prenup actually, as you
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  Speaker 3: lay out what are your debts, what are your assets,
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  Speaker 3: what do you expect from the other person, what if
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  Speaker 3: we do this, what if we do that, What they're
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  Speaker 3: suggesting in all of those what ifs and all their
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  Speaker 3: background will tell you volumes about that person. And then
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  Speaker 3: it'll help you say, like you said, hey, you don't
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  Speaker 3: want to sign a prenup. Okay, goodbye. It's not where
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  Speaker 3: I want to be.
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  Speaker 2: Now that we've talked about like, you know, all these emotions.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I think, let me just, if you give me
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  Speaker 3: a second just to chat about the emotions. I think
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  Speaker 3: that's such an important piece of all of it. Thank you.
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  Speaker 3: It's all of it. I think so. So people don't
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  Speaker 3: realize that as you go through life, you're growing and
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  Speaker 3: changing and evolving. But when you go through a traumatic
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  Speaker 3: experience like a divorce, you know, it's funny. I've heard somebody,
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  Speaker 3: I think it was a psychologist, share. They say that
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  Speaker 3: people are three degrees away from their normal baseline personality
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  Speaker 3: when they're going through a divorce.
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  Speaker 4: This is so helpful, Dennis.
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  Speaker 3: So you got to like accept that. So if you're
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  Speaker 3: a little pissed off or you're a little out of
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  Speaker 3: sorts or a little bit out of the ordinary, you
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  Speaker 3: just can't process things in the same way that you do. Yeah, yep,
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  Speaker 3: that's what's going to happen. That's what it's going to be.
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  Speaker 3: So I think going through that, healing from that, learning
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  Speaker 3: who your new you is, accepting that new you, loving
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  Speaker 3: that new you, and feeling like that new you is
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  Speaker 3: enough such that you do not need someone else to
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  Speaker 3: fill a void. That is what will bring that, as
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  Speaker 3: you call it, lobster to you. That's what does it.
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  Speaker 3: It doesn't like, oh, let me see. Can I find somebody?
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  Speaker 3: Is there datings? Just do you, man. Naturally, organically, you
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  Speaker 3: will find the right person at the right time if
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  Speaker 3: you even need the right person.
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  Speaker 2: And the emotional trauma and the financial trauma is what
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  Speaker 2: you were talking about, that is so unbelievably thick and very, very,
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  Speaker 2: very difficult to navigate. And, you know, I had no
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  Speaker 2: choice because I have two kids. I had to just
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  Speaker 2: move forward and provide for my children. But I'm not
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  Speaker 2: going to say it was easy. Everyone's like, oh, you
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  Speaker 2: just make it look so easy.
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  Speaker 3: No, no.
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  Speaker 2: Make is the operative word. I make it look easy.
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  Speaker 3: It is not easy.
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  Speaker 4: Make it till you make it.
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  Speaker 2: I was crying in my closet. I was like, how
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  Speaker 2: am I going to do this? I was like, no
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  Speaker 2: man's going to ever love me. With my first husband,
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  Speaker 2: I was like, everyone thinks that I'm just a nobody.
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  Speaker 2: Then my second fiance, I'm like, now he's trying to
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  Speaker 2: exploit me. I can't get a break. And I know
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  Speaker 2: a lot of women feel like that.
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  Speaker 3: And when you have kids, sometimes you don't have the
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  Speaker 3: time to grieve. I didn't. You don't have the time
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  Speaker 3: to cry in the way that you need to. You
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  Speaker 3: don't have time to process. You don't have because you're
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  Speaker 3: expected to suck it up, swallow it and and have
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  Speaker 3: a brave, brave face for your kids.
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  Speaker 2: And by the way, Dennis, if you if you don't
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  Speaker 2: just kind of like lock into your friends and family
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  Speaker 2: and say, I need help. I need to move forward.
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  Speaker 2: I need the strength.
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  Speaker 3: Let's go.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, this podcast really, really, really shifted my energy
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  Speaker 2: because I was talking to people like me. We were
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  Speaker 2: sharing stories. I felt comfortable saying I was so I
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  Speaker 2: was a mess.
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  Speaker 4: A hot mess express. That's me right now. I have
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  Speaker 4: no shame in my game.
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  Speaker 2: They were like, oh, you go to red carpets and
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  Speaker 2: you smile. I'm like, that doesn't mean I'm not like
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  Speaker 2: literally frying inside.
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  Speaker 4: Your hands are getting anxiety. You talked about your sweaty palms.
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  Speaker 3: That's an effing job. People don't realize that is a brand.
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  Speaker 3: You need to live your brand every day. And obviously,
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  Speaker 3: I don't have the same level of notoriety that you do.
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  Speaker 3: But I mean, even for myself, like I need to
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  Speaker 3: live a brand every day. I live the companies. I
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  Speaker 3: live who I am, my persona every single day. So
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  Speaker 3: I have to be really doubly certain about the way
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  Speaker 3: I'm dealing with people, the way I show up in public.
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  Speaker 3: That is a job. That is pressure. That is locked
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  Speaker 3: in focus. That's not enjoyment.
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  Speaker 4: And some people don't understand that because what we do
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  Speaker 4: is different. And so everybody has their own map of
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  Speaker 4: the world. Like what I do, what Kelly, what you do.
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  Speaker 4: We all have our own.
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  Speaker 2: Map of the world.
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  Speaker 4: I love that you said it's a brand. Like we
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  Speaker 4: are a little bit not conventional. And that's why I
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  Speaker 4: like to try to, you know, not everybody's going to understand, right? Like, so,
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  Speaker 4: but Kelly, off with his head. You're riding shotgun with me.
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  Speaker 2: This is not a sexy thing to think about, but like,
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  Speaker 2: what are the five things that you need to have
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  Speaker 2: ready to go when you're going to put a prenup together?
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  Speaker 3: What we typically, yeah, I mean, what we typically ask
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  Speaker 3: for at the outset is really just a net worth statement.
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  Speaker 3: So I really just want people to focus on like,
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  Speaker 3: what are the assets that are out there that you're
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  Speaker 3: trying to protect? What do they plan their future is
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  Speaker 3: going to be? What do they expect from this other person?
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  Speaker 3: And I think one thing, and again, I know I
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  Speaker 3: keep coming back to it. People are always looking at
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  Speaker 3: the end game with the prenup, but the prenup, if
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  Speaker 3: it's being done right, is an opportunity for you to
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  Speaker 3: get some insight into the other person. Not only the
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  Speaker 3: finances and the income and the credit score and all
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  Speaker 3: of those things, but also what can you expect from
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  Speaker 3: that person moving forward? And I think as you go
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  Speaker 3: through those things, The red flags that will come up
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  Speaker 3: is if what they're asking you for in the prenup
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  Speaker 3: is different than what they've said to you or you've
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  Speaker 3: talked about. So you say, hey, you know, I want
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  Speaker 3: to take care of you. I want you to stay
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  Speaker 3: home with the kids. But you don't get anything if
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  Speaker 3: we get divorced and I don't want to pay child support.
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  Speaker 3: So and each and every one of those terms. So
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  Speaker 3: and I mean, there's also just things that are just
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  Speaker 3: like not logical. So if it comes up with something like, hey,
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  Speaker 3: I just want to make sure if I'm if you
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  Speaker 3: find out that I did X or Y or Z
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  Speaker 3: that maybe there's something underlying that, you know, I won't
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  Speaker 3: agree to a no cheating clause. They could be cheating already. So,
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  Speaker 3: I mean, again, if it's something if you look at
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  Speaker 3: that prenup and it seems like it doesn't fit with
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  Speaker 3: what you expect from this person, your expectations with what
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  Speaker 3: you with who you believe they are. and what you
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  Speaker 3: believe their behavior will be moving forward. I always say
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  Speaker 3: with relationships, your core values need to be aligned. I'm
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  Speaker 3: a big proponent of two people having their own lives,
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  Speaker 3: their own independence, their own sources of income, their own thing.
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  Speaker 3: And not just because I feel like it's good, you know,
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  Speaker 3: it will put them in a better position if somebody
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  Speaker 3: doesn't pay child support, you have to file court orders
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  Speaker 3: and be able to support themselves. but for your own independence.
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  Speaker 3: You have to maintain your own person. You can't like, okay,
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  Speaker 3: when you get married, yes. Now you're a married couple.
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  Speaker 3: Of course, there's a married life, but there's also your
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  Speaker 3: independent self. There's also your own identity. And there needs
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  Speaker 3: to be, there needs to be the two. There needs
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  Speaker 3: to be the two.
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  Speaker 4: Well, I've been guilty of losing myself. Sorry to, I'm
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  Speaker 4: just taking notes here because I'm old school.
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  Speaker 2: But so did I.
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  Speaker 4: I've been guilty of losing, losing myself in relationships. And
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  Speaker 4: what I just heard, how I translated that is you gotta,
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  Speaker 4: you can't lose yourself.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: You know, what's interesting is that when, when, you know,
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  Speaker 2: some people were very, very negative towards me about what
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  Speaker 2: I was doing and getting, you know, getting a divorce and,
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  Speaker 2: you know, they're being negative and I'm trying to like,
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  Speaker 2: you know, push this, the positivity and, but everybody goes
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  Speaker 2: through these things. Everyone's going through these emotions. And I'm just, Courtney,
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  Speaker 2: I love that you're so open about how you feel.
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  Speaker 4: Well, I need my core people. I mean, I, but
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  Speaker 4: what I'm hearing you say, Kelly, there's an imaginary audience.
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  Speaker 4: Like everybody has their own going on, right? You can
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  Speaker 4: lean on your people and they will be there for you,
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  Speaker 4: but I mean, we live in a world where everybody
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  Speaker 4: has their own stuff going on. There's an imaginary audience.
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  Speaker 4: And I think that, you know, I can be Van
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  Speaker 4: Gogh and I can paint a picture in my mind
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  Speaker 4: of what is this person thinking about me? People Magazine,
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  Speaker 4: I'm releasing a statement. And that's something, Kelly, you and
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  Speaker 4: I can talk about offline. But I think if you're listening,
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  Speaker 4: you know, I am guilty of losing myself in romantic relationships.
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  Speaker 4: I've had them since I was 18.
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  Speaker 3: I'm 43 now.
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  Speaker 4: Um, and Dennis, that's kind of what I, I mean,
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  Speaker 4: I have so many pages of notes here and I, I,
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  Speaker 4: I'm sorry if I was just so fired up today
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  Speaker 4: because I'm, it's my first day without the kids. I've
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  Speaker 4: had them and you touched on that. I've had them
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  Speaker 4: for a week. Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: And I, and I think now's the time and brief
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  Speaker 3: pockets of time to let's start off with not give
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  Speaker 3: a fuck what anybody else thinks about what they think. I, you,
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  Speaker 3: you really, you really, and it's funny because I tell
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  Speaker 3: my wife this pretty often lately. I say at 50,
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  Speaker 3: I'm turning 55 tomorrow. Oh my gosh. Happy.
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  Speaker 4: Oh my goodness.
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  Speaker 2: You're a Virgo.
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  Speaker 3: I am.
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  Speaker 1: I love it.
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  Speaker 2: Happy birthday, Dennis.
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  Speaker 1: Thank you.
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  Speaker 3: So at 55, I tell my wife and really anybody
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  Speaker 3: who will listen for that matter. Cause I like to talk. So, um, I, uh,
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  Speaker 3: I have grown into who I am. and am comfortable
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  Speaker 3: with who I am more than I ever have been
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  Speaker 3: in my entire life. So when I go into a room,
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  Speaker 3: no matter who it is, no matter where it is,
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  Speaker 3: no matter what it is, I don't worry about, are
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  Speaker 3: they going to like me? I don't.
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  Speaker 2: I don't.
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  Speaker 3: I'm the guy that's going to go to a place
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  Speaker 3: where it's a black tie and I'm going to say,
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  Speaker 3: I'll take a cheeseburger and I'll take an ice cold beer.
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  Speaker 3: And if people don't like it, that's fine. That's fine.
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  Speaker 2: And I'll be on my phone watching the game.
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  Speaker 3: Right. I keep my side of the street clean in
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  Speaker 3: that I try to be the best person I can
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  Speaker 3: be and everything else, the chips are going to fall
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  Speaker 3: where they may. And I think as you go through
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  Speaker 3: the divorce process, it's really sage advice to say, not
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  Speaker 3: give an F what anyone else thinks, including sometimes your
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  Speaker 3: mom or your dad or your sister or your brother.
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  Speaker 1: Boundaries.
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  Speaker 3: You're living your own reality and you're doing the best
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  Speaker 3: you can. And for most, they're doing a pretty good
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  Speaker 3: job and they just don't know it.
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  Speaker 2: All right, everybody.
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  Speaker 4: Kelly, I've loved connecting with you. And Dennis, I hope
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  Speaker 4: you enjoyed this episode. If you did, please rate, review, subscribe,
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: maybe share it with a friend who might be going
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: through something similar. Do you have questions about prenups? Maybe
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: you need some advice. We want to help you out.
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: So send us an email or leave a voicemail. All
• 13:53
  Speaker 4: the info in the show notes. So follow us on
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: social medias, wherever you listen to your shows. I do
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: part two. an iHeart podcast where falling in love is
• 14:04
  Speaker 4: the main objective.