Latest / Rugby Direct / Rugby Direct Episode 249: Stormers Review, Proctor Blow & Sharks Changes

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Rugby Direct Episode 249: Stormers Review, Proctor Blow & Sharks Changes · Rugby Direct

• 0:09
  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: this and our Wide Ranger podcast now on iHeartRadio.
• 0:19
  Speaker 2: Straight down the Middle Truck Sky.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Try to get inside the game from every angle. It's
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Rugby Direct with Elliott Smith and Liam Napier, powered by
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: News Talks EDB.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Welcome to Rugby Direct powered by Folklib Solutions, lifting you
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: and your business to a high level. Elliott Smith with
• 0:45
  Speaker 2: me Leam Napier from New Zealand Herald, the debates the
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: opening week of Rugby's greatest rivalry Tour. We've moved from
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Cape Town to Durban as we record this, looking out
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: over the beach and the ocean, which is magnificent to view. Unfortunately,
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: the cloud's wrong. It's been a couple of warm days
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: since we arrived in Durban, but it's going to be
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: rainy only for the the tour match against the Sharks
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: as well. But we'll get onto all that in a moment. Liam,
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: first and foremost good to have the tour underway, isn't
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: it and have some some rugby to talk about it is.
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: It's been highly anticipated as an Elliott's traveled a long
• 1:25
  Speaker 3: way and I feel like it's been on the radar
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: for a long time, so to get to Cape Town
• 1:31
  Speaker 3: and for some of the tour party to get to
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: the game.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: Special. Yeah, let's let's talk about that. You were a
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: game day withdrawal from actually attending the opening game.
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was but a guesstro It's a hell of
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: a casualty incapacitated. I won't go into too many details,
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: but yes, on the morning of the match, it was
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: some worse for wear and it saw a lot of
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: the bathroom for twenty four hours and slowly coming right.
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: So wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, the Shades of nineteen ninety five really, isn't it?
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: In the All Blacks it is.
• 2:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I might have to try track down old Susie
• 2:12
  Speaker 3: issues that. But I did appreciate you coming and dropping
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: me a piece of white bread and power it at
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: my door.
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: There was my request. It wasn't like Anna.
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was in the right state. So what a trooper,
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: what a mate there in my time of need.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: No pleasure? And look, let's hope that you pass the
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: fitness teast ahead of the Sharks game on Tuesday night
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: our time. You did watch it from your sick bed
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: on Super Sport I assume what did you make of
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: the All Blacks performance?
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: It was the dustiest match report in history. And look,
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: it was a fairly dusty old game, I think from
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: the All Blacks in some ways expected given that that
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: was a team that had been largely thrown together second
• 2:57
  Speaker 3: string new combinations. But it was a real smack in
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: the face I think for the All Blacks an upper
• 3:03
  Speaker 3: cup on the chin. However you want to describe it,
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: so many any things you can talk about coming to
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: South Africa, you know what you're going to expect, but
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: then to confront it. We talked to Sam Dowry today
• 3:15
  Speaker 3: and he basically said that and Dave Rennie as well,
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: that you can talk about these things but until you
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: experience them. And almost half this All Black squad haven't
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: experienced South African opposition or played the spring box in
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: South Africa, and it is such a unique proposition from
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: a physicality perspective, from a game perspective, and then you
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: throw in Carl Dixon in the mix and it's a
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: hell of a cocktail. So look, the scrum was a
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: bit of a shambles, wasn't it. They didn't defend the
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: rolling more well, they barely caught one if any high ball.
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: Some of their catch pass skills are really ropie. I
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: thought the bench made a big impact late in the
• 3:50
  Speaker 3: game and they finished well to score four tries and
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: put the Stormers away. But look, it was a fairly
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: low bar starting point.
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: It was. It was quite disappointing. I thought from the
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: All Blacks. Yes, these players, a lot of them won't
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: be in the test run on fifteen anyway, they might
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: be on the bench options. But yeah, it probably exposed
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: a few areas where the All Blacks are seriously deficient in,
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: especially when you get away from the top team. And look,
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: there are going to be injuries on this tour. We've
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: already had a couple and then you're going to have
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: to dig into your reserves. And I think it was
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: some worrying trends there of players that were exposed quite
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: deeply in certain facets of the game. The scrum was
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: a real issue. Passily Atossi can see the three scrum
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: penalties of the Stormer's tight head. Vernon of Tongo basically
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: had a field day with him and passily O Tossi
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: I think did win one back, but couldn't show the
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: right pictures to Carle Dixon that he wanted to. So
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: that's a concern because that is going to now put
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: a you know, his card might be marked in terms
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: of this tour. I know he's playing against the Sharks
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: and coming off the bench there, but in terms of
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: those big games on the tour, I don't know whether
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: the All Blacks can risk bringing him back out without
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: some serious work on whatever deficiencies we saw. So I
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: think there's a question.
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: Well, you're one injury away from Pasilio TOSSI been on
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: the bench for the spring Box Test match. We've got
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: Tyro Lomax and Fiction Newell who are serious noted scrummages,
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: and the same goes for Ethan Degree on the loose
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: head side. Look, he may well make adjustments and get
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: up to speed, but that was a baptism of fire
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: and he didn't handle it well. So he I think
• 5:38
  Speaker 3: it is notable as well that he's been thrown out
• 5:40
  Speaker 3: there again on the bench a matter of four days later.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And I'm not saying that it was all
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: his fault because this is open to interpretation, and I'm
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: sure internally in the All Blacks maybe they've seen some
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: different things in their review that maybe they suggest that,
• 5:54
  Speaker 2: you know, it wasn't the case that Tossi was infringing
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: as much as Carl Dixon thought, But regardless, it becomes
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: a theme and you start painting the pictures. It's something
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: that referees now look out for and subconsciously, whatever it is,
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: whether it's Carl Dix, Matthew Carley, Angus Gardner, Nika Amisha
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: Kelly with Parsalali or Tossing out there, they'll be going
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: in the head. This is the guy that incorrectly and
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: illegally scrummaged three times against a franchise team, and so
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: that will just be in the back of the head,
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: I think. So. I'm sure they can rectify those fixes
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: and make them sort it out, but I just wanted
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: to worry long term, you know, on this tour, whether
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: his card might might be marked for those big games
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: elsewhere we're talking about the scrum. The Rolling War defense
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: was really poor. The attacks sort of been missing for
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: periods of the game. They struggled to get incisions with
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: bald hand.
• 6:49
  Speaker 3: And discipline didn't help them. They started really well and
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: then it was six penalties and I think they conceded,
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: and then the yellow cards came, they down to thirteen
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: men living without the ball. The Stormers they are allowed
• 6:59
  Speaker 3: to dictate terms through through their set piece, through the
• 7:02
  Speaker 3: tempo of the game, so their backs didn't get to
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: impose their style, did they, And they're on the back
• 7:08
  Speaker 3: foot basically scrambling until I think they scored in the
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: fifth minute and then scored their second try just before halftime,
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: and even then by no means dominant until late in
• 7:22
  Speaker 3: the second half, so they had to really dig deep
• 7:24
  Speaker 3: in fight.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: They did have to fight, and they look better when
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: the bench came on. They started really strong with the
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: first five six minutes. It was all the All Blacks,
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: and it wasn't until they went down the other end
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: of the park and started conceding penalties at will that
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: it sort of began to fall apart. Boden Barratt's performance.
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: What did you make of that?
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, not great. Look, Boden hadn't played for almost two months,
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: and I'm not making excuses for him, but it was
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: playing helps from a rhythm and a confidence perspective. But
• 7:59
  Speaker 3: it did feel like a continuation of what we saw
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: from him at the Blues this year, which was quite hesitant.
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: I don't know whether he's lost a bit of confidence
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: in his body. He just doesn't seem to challenge the line.
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: There's a lot of shuffling. Even early in the match
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: when the All Blacks made breaks, he put a little
• 8:16
  Speaker 3: kick and they were entering the Stormers twenty two. Little
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: eras creeping into his game. There was the second half
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: restart that went short. He grabbed an opposition player in
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: the air, gave away a penalty. There there was the
• 8:30
  Speaker 3: telling one where the high ball he went up and
• 8:33
  Speaker 3: just looked at it and didn't contest it. So look,
• 8:37
  Speaker 3: I think worrying signs. I think that was his big chance.
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: He waited all July, didn't get an opportunity. This was
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: such a long time coming, And to be honest, I
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: was I thought Yakim that the twenty year old on
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: debut for the Stormers outplayed him.
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he did too, and it was notable.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: And yes, the tide was turning at the point of
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: the game where Josh Jacob came on, But it was
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: noticeable having Jacob on the impact he had, just in
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: terms of straightening the attack a little bit and being
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: decisive and knowing what he was wanting to do. Maybe
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: gouldkicking aside, but I thought it was just noticeable and
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: it's hard to real too much into it, as I said,
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: because it was with the Stormers tiring and the all
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: Backs were getting on top at that point of the game.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: But it did just feel like I'm trying to think
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: exactly when he came on, it was I think after
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: the All Backs had gone maybe twenty one to fourteen up,
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: but it felt like the attack was just straightened out
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: a little bit once Drakan came on the part.
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. And look, Dave Rien has been
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: open about the fact that Boden Barrett started this first
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: game against the Stormers, Ruben Love's going to start against
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: the Sharks, and Josh Jacob is probably going to get
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: a crack against the Bulls. But that wasn't the performance
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: I think Boden would have wanted. And if Bill Blacks,
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: I feel like protecting him a wee bit at the
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: moment with their public missiting around it. And he's obviously
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: an experienced member of the squad and I'm sure he's
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: doing a lot of mentoring behind the scenes, But from
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: a pure performance perspective, I think that that was not
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: the standard we've come to expect from Bowden, and you know,
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: we probably haven't seen the level that we expect from him,
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: certainly this year.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: Well Man, he'll know that, like he's a quality player,
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: and he'll know that he isn't that that wasn't the
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: best he can deliver. The question is whether agains another
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: opportunity to show that, and I'm not sure that he will,
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: because speaking he will probably come off the bench, maybe
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: against the Bulls, perhaps spitballing here here.
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: Perhaps play against the Lions. The only other point I
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: would make is there weren't too many players in that
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: game from a little black perspective that actually enhearance their claims.
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: From a test perspective, I would say Peter Luckeye was outstanding.
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: Anton Lena Brown was busy. He got mad of the
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: match even though he got the yellow card. Fabian Holland
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: got two taling line out steels, one when the All
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: Blacks were under massive heat and the other directly led
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: to a try. I think it was for Josh Morby.
• 11:12
  Speaker 3: But outside of that, Riquewan.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: He was I thought Antonine signal was good again.
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: But on the whole there's not too many players that
• 11:20
  Speaker 3: you would say you put some real and pressure on
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: the incumbent.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder whether I mean it's been well telegraphed
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: at the All Blacks have pretty much had the first
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: Test team locked in played and I'm not saying this
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: they weren't playing with that in mind. But I don't
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: know it Just you know, when you when you say
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: that the first Test team is locked in, hard to
• 11:40
  Speaker 2: put your hand up when you are on the outside
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: looking in already. I don't know.
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, potentially, And look, there's a number of factors. They
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: were under massive pressure in that game. They didn't have
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: it all their own way, and they didn't adjust to
• 11:55
  Speaker 3: Carl Dixon either. I think that was a massive part
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: of the lack of flow and how the All Blacks
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: wanted to play and look good. That's a reality they're
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: going to have to call. Dixon is going to be
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: in charge of Baltimore, so there's no getting away from it.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: That's right. I don't think Carl Dixon is a t
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: standard referee, but he has been awarded these matches, so
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: you have to find a way to get up to
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: speed with Carl Dixon. He operates some bizarre lines at
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: the moment, held.
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: What do you make it that penalty trow for Josh Molby.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: Like again, Carl Dixon referees the game to the letter
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: of the law, but it's like an aligen has come
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: down read the World Rugby rule balok and gone, okay,
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: I've put this into my brain. Now I don't know
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: how to do it. He's this is a blog that
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: played professional rugby, yet he seems to have no feel
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: for the game.
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he's overly officious, massively right.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and look he is I'm sure impressing world rugby
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: bosses because he does catch everything that they're after. But
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: I you know, he played close to two hundred games.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: I think it was for Harlequins maybe, but you wouldn't
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: know it. Like he referees the game like it is
• 13:00
  Speaker 2: his first time seeing it and he's following the exact
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: letter of the world law. But again, I can moan
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: about it on this podcast, and I will, But if
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: you're the all blacks he's got, then they're not going
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: to change the referee appointments. So you've got to deal
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: with the way that he's going to referee, the way
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: that Matthew Carly's going to referee, the way that Nika
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: Amashakelly is going to referee in the way the Angers
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: Gardener referees. And I think, going back to my point
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: from last week, it would be easy if Carl Dixon
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: was referee for every match of the series, or whoever
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: might be.
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: No one wants to see.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: No, but you would at least get used to knowing
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: which way the game is going to be. It's just
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: it goes in wild different areas depending on who's got
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: the whistle. And I don't think it's healthy for the
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: sport and world rugby is asleep at the wheel because
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: they've got no desire to change it. Don't seem interested
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: in the fact that this is supposed to be an
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: entertainment product. They've absolutely washed their hands of anything to
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: do with the entertainment product. Test level and then the
• 13:56
  Speaker 2: TMO intervening every five minutes and the game as well.
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: It was just this, This rugby's greatest rivalry is built
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: on the tradition, but it's also built on entertainment and
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: the two best supposed team at playing rugby, and yet
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: the refereeing was a distraction from that. And this is
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: the point that rugby has got to now, is that
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: everyone tries to sell this as a form of entertainment,
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: but World Rugby and the referees don't seem to listen.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I think it's gonna be a long
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: tour if this is the kind of refereeing standard that
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: we're used to.
• 14:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah, we don't want to be talking about this the
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: whole time.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: No, but I don't, I don't, Reginuely don't.
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: But you're rights. It's a frustration that we don't want
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: these referees to be focal figures, but it is incumbent
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: on the All Blacks to adjust.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: Indeed, like let's move on from that. Some news out
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: of the All Blacks camp today that Billy Procter is
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: heading home from the tour. Suspected to be the case
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: after we saw him on Friday nights our time his
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: shoulder arm was it a slang, didn't look good and
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: Dave Rennick confirming it's a fractured shoulder blade. So he's
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: going to be out for ten to twelve weeks, which
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: you look at this point in time, that's anywhere between
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: two to three months, which could even be the end
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: of your tour.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: Pretty much the end of your season. Yeah, two to
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: three months.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: I think, so you rehab it back. He's back here, I.
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: Think he will struggle with back. So devastating blow for
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: Billy first and foremost, isn't it. This is the once
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: in a lifetime tour. And look, he's not going to
• 15:30
  Speaker 3: be the last we've had George Bell. They're going to
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: be on the same flight home and we've had one game.
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: This is going to be a hugely arduous tour that's
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: going to claim many casualties. Yeah, it's a blow for
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: the all Becks because I think while Billy hasn't reached
• 15:50
  Speaker 3: great heights, he still has test experience. And it depletes
• 15:54
  Speaker 3: your depth in their midfield, doesn't it.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: It does? And you know there, we're going to be
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: two games down by the time they get a replacement over,
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: so you've still got six games to go. The question
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: is do they go for a lightfu light midfield placement
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: or do they go for Richie Moong? And you asked
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: the question today whether Mona's in the conversation, and Dave
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: Rennie chuckled and said, we'll go through the process, which
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: to me suggests that he is very much in the
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: picture for coming over and replacing Billy. Prop to would
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: that be the right thing for the All Blacks to
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: do well?
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: First of all, midfield is not an area of great
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: depth and he's Yellow Rugby, I don't think at the moment.
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: But they do have enough cover within that All Black
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: squad to get through this tour, right Jordi, Barrett, Quinte,
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: Pier Antonina Brown, Riquewanny Tava Tavanawa. Those aren't by any
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: count established options, but there is enough cover there. So look,
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: Dave Renie's made. And then from a midfield perspective, you've
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: had a j Lamb Branden in or David Heavily's still playing,
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: but he's going offshore as well. So there's number of former.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: Or Blacks in all cloud yep.
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: Guys on the fringe leaving. So depth isn't great there
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: and so for me, there's no obvious next in line replacement.
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: Maybe it's David Hevilli, maybe you bring him over even
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: though he's leaving. But look, Dave Renie's made no secret
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: of the fact that he wanted Muwanga here from the outset.
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: He brought him into the pre Super Rugby Final camp.
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: He publicly stated that he wanted to get Muanglan and
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: use him in the opening tour game against the Stormers.
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: So look, I think in my mind there's no question
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: that really asked the question of New Zealand rugby. Richie
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: has now played two games for Canterbury. Unfortunately one of
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: those was wrestling the raanfully shield away.
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: Hopefully have you brought it up before I did?
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: That's great from mighty Otago. I'm not sure how much.
• 18:00
  Speaker 3: I haven't seen the game. I don't know how much
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: of a role we played in that. But look, regardless,
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: he's surely he's like ticked that box now right And
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: the only question I would have is is it a
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: bit fascical that the All Blacks have selected four playmakers
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: and they're all still fits and you replace a midfielder
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: with ten.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: Well, they're replaced Morne Nadawa with Ethan black Hair at
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: twenty three World Cup Spring Walks replaced Malcolm Marx with
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: Hondra Pollard the twenty three World Cup.
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: It's a coach is progative, isn't it?
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Absolutely? If they yeah, I mean, if they want to
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: bring him in, are you? I think in the absence
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: of equality midfielder and I can't think of the next
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: player in line, you know, they had Cooper Cooper Roberts
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: and Camp you know, as a training partner in Christy.
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: I mean, he's barely played super rugular so you couldn't
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: bring him into the mix. So I can't think of
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: a quality player to bring in. And so yeah, OK,
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: I'll be comfortable enough with them bringing Richie Wallinger. And
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: you think, as you said, he Dave Ready talked about
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: he was planning to use me against the storm as
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: if he was able to be selected, and you work
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: your way backwards and go well, that kind of moved
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: Josh Jacob probably into the selection and touring party because
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: they couldn't take Richie Wong and working your way backwards
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: from the first Test side was the kind of players
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: they needed. So look the doors opened out for him
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: to get there. Theilbacks are on a limited runway to
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: the Rugbill Cup under this management. It's the case it
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: needs must be.
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: I think it in Ore, Yeah, I think there's the
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: point is you're paying Richard m Wang a hell of
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: a lot of rugby right money right now to be
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: playing provincial rugby and as you say, the runway to
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: the World Cup, this guy's going to be at the
• 19:45
  Speaker 3: World Cup. He needs to be involved. Really, you're shooting
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: yourself in the foot here. I understand the stipulations that
• 19:52
  Speaker 3: Mwanga didn't sign for two years and so that stipulates
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: that he should be playing a full NPC campaign, but
• 20:01
  Speaker 3: just the optics around it and all the gray areas
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: around sabbaticals, I mean, just just sign it off, you know,
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: and if you have to bring over another midfielder at
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: a later date, so beer, it's cut before the horse
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: a little bit, but I don't see that changing the
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: complexion of the first Test team. Maybe Muanga comes into
• 20:19
  Speaker 3: the picture later in the tour, but Rennie's point all along,
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: I think, has been to get him involved and to
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: get him up to speed from a game plan perspective,
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: and yeah, just utilize him. Well, he's wasted playing for
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: Vinci Rugby.
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, look there's a big Shield defense coming up next weekend,
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: so we can flight they bring him over you want,
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: by a plenty. I'm sure our producer Mark would want
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: that as well. Yeah. Look, I think these eligibility laws
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: need to be simplified. It doesn't make sense to the
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: common fan that he is playing for Cannaby in the NBC.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: There's the big tourk on over here that they've piped
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: up to the nth degree and Richard mccaugh is not
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: Richard Walk. Well, get Richie McCord back. Richie Walk is
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: not playing and you know the bigger one. So we'll
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: wait and see on that front.
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and if it doesn't transpire, it's not it's gonna
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: be an ongoing conversation that anytime a bat goes down,
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: it's gonna be like, well, Dave, get a swing at
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: that time.
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: Probably better just to get ripped the band aid off
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: and get him at the camp team named to play
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: the Shucks by Dave Rennie as well. I don't know
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: if he caught a shadow test side, given there are
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: niggles with Torol Lomax, Zavi Amia, Will Jordan, Cody Taylor's
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: still injured, Ardie sa Viga not here but close to
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: a shadow test side. I suppose any surprises in the mix.
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: For you there, I don't think so that is absolutely
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: a shadow test team without those guys who Dave Rennie
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: said today will luckily all be fit for the next
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: tour game against the Bulls. Will Jordan's nigglie back, which
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: was potentially worrying, but he didn't seem too concerned about it.
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: No major surprises. I think Luke jacob and captaining the
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: team certainly signals his rise and the ranks under any
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: As you pointed out today at the presser, Jacobson is
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: a guy that's been in and out of this All
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: Black team prior to this regime. He's come and he's
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: nailed his chance as starting open side, and now he's
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: taken on the captaincy for this game. I think some
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: players have a lot to gain from this match. I'm
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: very intrigued to see Kyle Preston get a start. I
• 22:35
  Speaker 3: haven't seen a lot of them. Wasn't sighted in July.
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: Came off the bench against the Stormers. I am of
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: the view that he should be backing up cam Roy guards.
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: I think it will be good to see Finga and off.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: We haven't cited him since five or ten minutes off
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: the bench in that first Test. Had a shoulder injury,
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: he was sick. So intrigued to see how he handles
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: that high ball, in particular Wallas tit pulled out late
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: against the Stormers. Now gets a chance. He's he needs
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: a big performance and maybe even a Caleb Clark. I
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: don't think that back three is totally locked in yet.
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: I didn't think Josh Morby had had his best display
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: against the Stormers, but he's a guy that is certainly
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: proficient under the high wall.
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: He is indeed yet looked the number of players still missing,
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: but you can see the the first choice nature of
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: this team shining through in the players that have been selected. Look,
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: Luke Jacobson played that his stocks have risen incredibly this
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: year with the appointment really of Dave Rennie's coach. I
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: mean that's been one of the main reasons that he's
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: playing as much rugby now in All Blacks Captain, big
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: opportunity I suppose for him. Look, he has gone you
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: would think start that first Test, but I think it's
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: another chance for Luke Jacobson just to get some more
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: game time in the All Blacks Jersey. I agree about
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: Kyle Preston really looking forward to seeing what he can
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: do with me. He had a rough souper rugby season,
• 24:03
  Speaker 2: was on the pine every game he played for the Crusaders,
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: and I think was maybe injury in the one game
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: where they chose to rotate Hoth him out of their
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: twenty three and they called on Louis Chapman. So he
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: just didn't have much luck this year and hasn't played
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: a lot of rugby, so big chance for him to
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: come on this week. The locks are interesting once again,
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: you know that's real tight squeeze ahead of that first
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: match as well, and you look at the bench and
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: SIMSI tu law a really fascinated to see how he
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: goes with the first taste of quasi international rugby and
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: saying what kind of impacts he can make because I
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: think he's a dead set, really exciting player.
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, he's a good point. He's one guy that could
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: be a massive mover very quickly if I hope he
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: gets some genuine game time half an hour off the
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: bench because he could be a real weapon. You think
• 24:53
  Speaker 3: about we talked about off here about a guy like
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: lestifying a Nuoku and the ability to inject some genuine
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: size and physicality off the bench against the box. In particular,
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: there is you know, oh substitute for size at times,
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: and Samisi has that. So I'm very intrigued to see
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: him unleashed on the stage.
• 25:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely. The other point tonight as well, can Roy
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: guard named on the bench? I suspect this would probably
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: be the last time we see him before the opening test.
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: Can't see them playing him against the Bulls. In fact,
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: there's been a bit of shadow that Dave Rennie is
• 25:31
  Speaker 2: going to use a six to two bench against well
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: he's running out of time now to use them one
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: of the other two two games, so probably against the
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: balls then. So maybe you look at a Ratama starting
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: in a carter off the bench.
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're you're protecting your most influential set
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: and just don't risk it.
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: Don't risk it, don't risk the biscuit. Yeah, so we'll
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: see how that unfolds. But otherwise, yeah, close to a
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: shadow test side. So what are the expectations? Given we
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: had the Stormers game in mind and the changes that
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: have been made since by Dave Rennie, you'd expect a
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: much better and more cohesive performance given a lot of
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: these players have played together, even you know, Oppressed in
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: Love combination has played together for Wellington the NPC level.
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, Look, this team is probably only going to
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: have two trainings together, but they have by and large
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: played a lot together. Look at the midfield, Jordy Barrett, Quinte,
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: Pier Ruben Love. Yeah, you've got your two of your
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: best props there, so that should shore up the scrum.
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: I think, vastly improved performance. It is going to be
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: intriguing to see how the All Blacks deal with the rain.
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: It's meant to chuck it down. Yeah, so that will
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: potentially impact their handling. You'd imagine the Sharks will kick
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: a lot to them, but this is always This is
• 26:49
  Speaker 3: a gonna be a second string Sharks side, Like the
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: Stormers were playing out of season, and I think it
• 26:56
  Speaker 3: is reflective of where they're at that they've got Marnano
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: on the bench. You know how old's not enough for
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: forty four look amazing servants All Black legends still clearly
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: got a bit of guess in the tank. But I'm
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: on the fence about this. I think there's a case
• 27:17
  Speaker 3: to be made that he's preventing a pretty special opportunity
• 27:21
  Speaker 3: for a young or old South African player who may
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: never get the chance to play against the All Blacks
• 27:27
  Speaker 3: who are at this level.
• 27:28
  Speaker 2: Again, Yeah, Scott publicity stunt written all over it to
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: try and get a few people more through the gates
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: tomorrow night here in Durbin. I'm not specifically against it,
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: but I just Yeah, it is a little crass, a
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: little techy. You know. It's one thing. You think that's
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: two thousand and eight when they played months to the
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: All Blacks and Wroughte, the Pooky and dug Aulett and
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: I think maybe one other whose name is skaps me
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: now is did Ahaka against it. It feels like they're
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: trying to engineer that. But those players played for that club.
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: You know, they were squad members and look, I know
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: Man already has signed for them, but it's more in
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: a coaching role and just there's a there's a sense
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: of just a publicity stunt there and a little bit tacky.
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: Having said that, people will be interested in it, and
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: you know it's remarkable that he's still going at forty four.
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, look, people will, I guess the back end of
• 28:23
  Speaker 3: the game. You think about none who coming up against
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: Tavi Tabanaway. There's some big body contact coming there. But yeah,
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: I just think if I was in the shoes of
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: a young South African, I think about what young Jakim
• 28:35
  Speaker 3: twenty year old, and you know he's going to remember
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: that experience for the rest of his life, coming up
• 28:40
  Speaker 3: against his idol Boden Barretts. So to rob a player
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: of that opportunity seems a wee bit wrong, But yeah,
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: we live in a financial world, don't we.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: We do. Indeed, the spring Box playing Argentina their final
• 28:58
  Speaker 2: game before the start of this four test series over
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: I po sidi is I'm convincing from the Springbox seventeen
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: ten fair to say the game didn't rise to any
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: great heights. Watched this at a sports club here in
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: Durban last night with a parochial as you'd expect a
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: spring Box crowd. I don't think overly happy with the
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: way they played, but wins a winner's a win, and
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: I suspect they've left a bit in the tank and
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: a bit in the russy playbook as they prepare for
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: the All Blacks.
• 29:29
  Speaker 3: Now, Yes, indeed, I think there's a bit of shadow
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: boxing going on prior to these tests, aren't there. Look
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: the Box got ebbin Est a bit back and Sasha
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: the Golden Boy at ten. But look, this match was
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: left a lot to be desired. It was a kick
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: fest eighty kicks. The spring Box defended well, the attack
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: was pretty poor. I thought a second string Pumas team
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: put them under a lot of heat, but not much
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: to take out of that game that will carry forwards.
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: The big talking point being Seecalis's injury hamstring recurrence that
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: could potentially rule them out of this greatest rivalry tour.
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: How much of a blow would that be.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: I think it'd be a huge way. He'd still be
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: around the squad, and what a leader and what an
• 30:13
  Speaker 2: inspiration he is to that spring Box team, and I
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: think not having him out of the park I think
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: would be a loss for him. But the kind of
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: depth that Russy Erasthmus's cultivators, he'll be confident that it's
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: next man up and whoever he puts into that role.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: I was impressed by Hunnikhm was outstanding. Yeah, but then
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: you got you know, Jasper Visa and a number eight.
• 30:38
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure technically whether Hunnikham could move to open side.
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: I'm not really sure about, you know, his versatility there.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: But he was impressed him. So they'll find someone in
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: the spring Box.
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: There's no shortage of depth, but from a charismatic point
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: of view, inspiration pretty hard to replace.
• 30:55
  Speaker 2: There certainly is a couple more things before we wrap
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: up the r his shield heading home.
• 31:02
  Speaker 3: I thought we mentioned that already.
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: No, I think we should got to a little more death,
• 31:05
  Speaker 2: not that I've actually seen the full game, but just
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: specially when the good guys win, isn't it and the
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: redfully shield heading to its rightful place.
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought it was over. The sickness starting to
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: come back, starting to come back.
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Anything you want to say, congratulations.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: Or no, no, done done, all done on that front,
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: I think.
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: Okay, we will should be done, all done on the
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: podcast as well. That'll do us. We'll be back in
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: a few days time, once we've got the Sharks game
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: in the books and we head to Johannesburg to prepare
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: for the Bulls in Pretoria. Legam, continue on your path
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: to good health. Appreciate your time.
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: Yes, thanks for your services, and good luck to the
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: bad plenty.
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: Don't give me that Marke Kelly for producing. We appreciate
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: him as always, and we are powered by Forklift Solutions,
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: lifting you and your business to a higher.
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: For more from News Talks d B, listen live on
• 31:58
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• 32:01
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