Latest / Conversations with Amoda Maa - Exploring Awareness Through Dialogue and Living Inquiry / Episode 47: What is Your Life's Purpose?

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Episode 47: What is Your Life's Purpose? · Conversations with Amoda Maa - Exploring Awareness Through Dialogue and Living Inquiry

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Good morning everyone and welcome back to another Amoda Maa podcast. Hello Amoda
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Hello, Kavi. So welcome back. It's been a while since we
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did our last podcast. But today we're going to talk about purpose. We're going to ask
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a few questions and have a conversation about what is purpose is purpose necessary? What
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is the difference between purpose and, I don't know, what you do in the world? I'm going
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to be asking a motor about her purpose, where you know, what it what is stirring it, how
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much of it drives the work that she does in the world. And so we're going to have a kind
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of loose going to start loosely with this conversation and see where it goes. And if
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that's okay, I'm going to, before we started this podcast, a motor retold us a kind of
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story from when I think you're about 16 or something. And it was rather amusing and it
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kind of set something in motion. So if you I don't mind a motor, I'd like to actually
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like to start there with when you were, I presume you were either coming out of school
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and with a view to go into university or what are you going to do in your life.
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And over to you. What was this, this story because it was quite funny and interesting.
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Well, I'm glad we find it funny now, sort of 50 years later.
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It wasn't funny at the time. I think I was 16.
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I can't remember somewhere between O levels and A levels.
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They call you into the Korea's office and ask you what you would like to be or what
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you would like to do, what path, what career path you'd like to follow. And it's quite
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vivid still in my memory. I can't remember if I
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had the book with me or I just referred to it, but I was
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quite immersed in the world of Leonardo da Vinci at the time. Paul Jung also, they were
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my two kind of, I don't know if I would call them
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heroes, but inspirations I would say. which looking back on it, are actually were
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and my two interests were art and psychology, deep psychology, a transpersonal
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depth psychology, bordering on the esoteric symbolism and so
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on. But I couldn't articulate it, so I think I
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I made reference to I want to be like Leonardo da Vinci.
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And I just remember the kind of shame that I felt after that
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and the smallness and the sense of being utterly misunderstood
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because the careers advisor just sort of battered me down
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said, why don't you become an illustrator for science books, which to me had nothing
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to do with what I was referring to. And I couldn't articulate it at the time,
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but what I really was trying to articulate was what inspired me was the genius, the uniqueness
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of someone like Leonardo da Vinci, who could synthesise some of the mysteries of life and
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being human and portray them in a blend of science and art, it seemed. I mean, I've lost
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touch with Leonardo da Vinci since then, But as far as I remember, mathematics and
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art, and that synthesis, it was the synthesis
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and the uniqueness and the sort of divine expression
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that came through him, that I was really trying to convey.
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Of course, that didn't sit very well with a school
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careers advisor, so I left that room. none the wiser, none the more inspired, still
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very confused and actually filled with shame or misunderstanding being misunderstood. Well,
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it was a kind of the very kind of tender shoot is what it sounds like of a kind of
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inspiration to radiate the magnificence that you are,
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which doesn't come easy for everybody, not everybody is kind of driven,
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in that sort of way, it has to be tenderly nourished.
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At that time it wasn't extinguished, but it was dampened.
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Yeah, there were the practicalities of the world.
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Well, you've got to fit in, you've got to get that ridiculous thought out of your head.
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But what's interesting is that you actually have ended up doing that in your own unique
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way. It didn't kill your flame, did it? Your purpose
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has come through over the years. Yes, I think what I learned from that experience
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and got embedded in me very quickly was that anything that was outside the mainstream,
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the ordinary, if you like, the conventional was not nurtured, as you say. And actually
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it did extinguish a flame for a while. in the sense that I was just sort of rather
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lost and confused. And I did set off on a trajectory that
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was not that in the academic world, which was very dry and not at all nurturing the
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uniqueness of the individual expression. And I got rather lost
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in that. But in the end, that flame is still burning brightly and eventually it comes through.
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And I think that whatever you are, if you like destined to
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be, destined to grow into, it will, perhaps, I don't know if that's true for everybody,
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but it will eventually come through. If you're true to it, I mean,
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I got lost for a while, but that's really just in the
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academic world. And after that, I, for some time, but even that lostness is not a lostness
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because it's a great learning and there's a great
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tilling of the soil that happens there. But I never completely
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abandoned the true desire, the true need from my depth to follow a true path, a true calling,
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wherever that took me. So I didn't sacrifice that over the years by going in a completely
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different trajectory, which would be, I don't know, the conventional career path.
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So let's see if we can broaden this out a bit to extrapolate something about this, because
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in what you're talking about here, you know,
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something to do with destiny, something to do with divine
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destiny, something to do with whatever purpose might be, something to do with the linear
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world and the emphasis on becoming more of somebody,
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if you like, of becoming pursuing this career thing.
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And all of those aspects can melt together in some people.
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But in other people, and we speak to quite a few people,
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and it is a persistent question. For instance, for people on the spiritual
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path who are seeking resolution to suffering,
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but also what to do in the world. This question of how do I find my purpose?
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What is my purpose? What is purpose?
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So can I just throw all of those things at you and see where they
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kind of want to land so we can open this up a little bit?
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Yes. The deeper
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meaning of purpose and the deeper
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possibility of purpose gets hijacked in the conventional world by the need to succeed,
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the need to make money, the need for recognition, the need for approval. A lot of that is tied
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up with parental conditioning, whether we're aware of it or most people are not aware of
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it, but our mother, our father want us to be this or be that or be successful or be
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a good boy or a good girl or whatever. And there's an unconscious
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drive to satisfy that, to be that in order to
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get approval and love. Sometimes there's a rebellion against it. But the need to go down
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or trajectory that might lead to success in some way is very much embedded in society,
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in education, in society, in family constellations and so on. And so that overrides or hijacks
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this, the purity of purpose. So purpose becomes something that is part of our ego striving.
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Yeah. And, and that may lead to success, but it may not lead to true fulfillment, or it
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may lead to failure and then that has inherent issues in it. But there's a deeper meaning
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or a deeper, if you like, purpose to purpose, which is really just the fulfillment of your
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unique individuation. And that doesn't need to necessarily look like conventional success
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or glamour or any of those things, but is a deep soul fulfillment. And that purpose
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isn't "How can I find my purpose?" That's the wrong
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question in some ways. Or "What should I do in my life
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in order to fulfill my purpose?" It's kind of looking in the wrong direction. It's more
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about going inside and really listening to or allowing,
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if you're like incubating what wants to move in you.
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And that may be something or it may be something, you know, not much, but it doesn't matter.
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It It doesn't matter what the quantity or what
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the appearance is. It's really about being true to what wants
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to either move or be expressed. And that's deep listening.
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And also often a kind of waiting, like a pregnant pause.
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And that is something that's not nurtured in our society.
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It's not nurtured in children. It's not nurtured in most families.
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It's certainly not nurtured in education. You know, how to find that which,
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if you like, moves as a river of joy, Yeah, and that is more likely to find an avenue
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of expression and if you like, activity or action in the world in some ways that will
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actually be truly fulfilling and not something that is just an agenda for the outcome, success
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or recognition or approval or financial security. So the drive for that comes from a very different
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place. And I found that that's why it took me so
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long. Listening to that, really allowing that, which
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took many years to really kind of express itself,
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and it expressed itself here and there, and then it sort of changed.
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that when it fully comes into its flow, one actually has a lot of energy for it, but not
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an energy that comes from overdrive, but from an inner, it's like an inner drive, I guess.
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It's like being enthused, which is being filled with God, which is why I call it divine destiny.
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Wow. Well, as you were speaking, I was kind of reflecting on us really, on what you and
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I in our different ways, but as a kind of entity of two become one, you know, what the
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purposes, because before I met you, I had no knowledge or awareness or interest in a
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way and anything deeper in the sense of what a
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kind of purpose would be. I think just getting through
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would be my purpose. But after all these years and such attrition of the surrender of the
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over kind of self that it thought it could salvage anything from the wreckage of my life.
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And I sort of gave in in a way, then I was something, you know, it's true what I say,
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you know, something deeper happened. And I found that
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I was giving myself to the beauty of love that is
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ever ever present, but veiled in this world and it's sort of, you know, to my purpose
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is to serve love. And I can say that with such a full heart,
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not from a grandiose state, but actually from a very
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kind of humble true place and that in itself, you know, to serve love in whatever way it
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comes from in me, it comes through this work through
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administering, to doing the podcast, to sometimes teaching,
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or to the poetry that brings beauty or speaks to the beauty in the world. That's taken such
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a long time of softening and maturation, of letting
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go, of needing to be somebody in the world and
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actually falling into becoming myself in the world. And it's incredibly nuanced. I could
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see that what you're talking about this purpose
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can only come from a deeper place when when Debris or whatever stands in the way has been
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cleared, cleared out somehow. And then it's sort of
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my feeling is it arises as if by itself, does it? Yes, I mean, I always point to our primary
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purpose, which is to, if you like, recognize, not intellectually,
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but in our depths, and that's the journey, you're speaking of, the fulfilment that's
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already here, the fulfilment of beingness. And that was the journey that I was on for
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many years as well. And because then there's no need to find that
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by striving for this or striving for that or striving to be somebody or striving to
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be seen in any way. And then there can be a listening because
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you have cleared, there is a clearing of the way, the agendas, the strategies, the unconscious
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strategies for seeking approval and seeking love and seeking this and seeking that from
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the external, whether it's relationships or the work we do or the world in some way or
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other people or society, that comes undone. And then there's a space inside and that space
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is beingness and that's totally fulfilling in and of itself. And it's from that that
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we can really listen to what might be a divine movement.
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Let's take the word divine out because that might mean different things to different people.
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It's not a voice that we hear, but it's almost like the inevitability of our
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unique uniqueness, unique expression. Each of us comes into this world, totally unique,
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with a unique imprint, looking at whether we look at something like the astrological
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map, whether we look at the enneagram map, whether
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we look at the gene keys map, which is very complex
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and you know has the "I" ching in it and all sorts of layers of maps if you like cosmic
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maps. All of that can reflect back to us if we wish
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to look at it. Our unique imprint, it doesn't tell us who
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we're going to be or what we are, obviously in that sense, but it's a pattern.
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It's like a pattern that we come into this world and each pattern is absolutely unique.
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Somehow when the ego strategies, the agendas, the needs that drive unconsciously much of
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human behaviour have come undone or at least softened and some of that sort of inner matrix,
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which is the matrix of conditioning comes undone,
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then our pattern can shine through more easily. And that's when we can hear,
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I don't mean literally, but it's an inner hearing of something that moves us. You know,
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for a while, as you know, many years ago, what moved me
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was movement itself, and it got expressed through dance,
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and breath work and there was such joy in that. I had no agenda. It wasn't created out
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of the need of need to be anything or to achieve anything.
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It was a small seed that was just planted and it
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just grew by itself. It took a long time but it grew and there was great joy in it. I loved
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it and I didn't try to, you know, kind of manipulate
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or direct it in any particular way other than being true to what was true.
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And for a while, that was deeply fulfilling. I had no idea where it was going.
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And then something inside that emerged. Yeah. And so then that took me on another
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trajectory, not completely left of centre, if you like.
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but as an outgrowth of that, a more refined way of expressing that.
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So we can really hear, hear, we can really allow that movement to take place.
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That's it. For me, that goes back to being in the careers office,
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where I was really trying to express that there was something I wanted to listen to
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in myself. I didn't know what it was going to look like,
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but I wanted somebody to perhaps help me or assist me or support me in understanding what
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that was and allowing it rather than, well, you can have a career in this or a career
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in that or a career in that, which kind of killed
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my spirit really. So it's that kind of delicacy.
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It really is. That's it.
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You see, for me, I was a young man. My father was a mechanic, an engineer.
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My brother had a great aptitude for car engines and all of that stuff.
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I was way out of my depth because I was a misfit right from the beginning.
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I fell out of the system completely. I went to somewhere. They said, "Oh, well,
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you know, you should go and join the Navy." And I said, "Well, that sounds like a good
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idea." So I went in England, you know, I went and
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I had my test, medical test, and I don't know what it was, aptitude test. And they said,
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"Oh, you'd be great in the Navy." And I woke up,
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you know, the day later, in a sweat, because I think,
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You know, and there's nothing wrong with joining a navy because actually it has a great discipline
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in it and I was incredibly undisciplined. But I had to go on the journey of the way
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of the misfit. You know, for me, that was the, it
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started on such a long journey that only in the last two
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years, and I'm 65, have I been able to say, you know, I feel like I'm on purpose, that
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we're in purpose, that something is happening, and
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how to let go of the idea of being someone, of the idea
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of being a musician. The idea that I can actually do anything in this world of any,
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you know, I had to let go of kind of anything and fall into a place where I didn't, I realized
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I didn't know what meaning my life had because meaning is wrapped up in this as well, isn't
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it? You know, it's like purpose and meaning. It's like on a certain level you can have
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a career and you can pursue it thinking you are, that's
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going to get me where I need to go or it's going
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going to create the safety that I need or the house and you get these things.
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And then suddenly you realize your life is meaningless.
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You know, because unfortunately we live in these crazy society, this crazy
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society that does hijack something beautiful about us.
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It does. And only a few manage to escape through the
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net without having to go on this deeper, almost mystical transformation or
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journey. And it's not easy because we also need to
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survive. - That's right, that's right.
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I mean, we both you and I have in our lives sacrificed that.
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And been in some very difficult and challenging times.
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We don't need to go into the details, but we did in our own way.
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and together. And to me, it's a matter of values as well.
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Naively or innocently or ignorantly, I never had a value
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system that was to do with fitting into society or achieving
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anything or even thinking about financial security. I was just
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as an aside, I was actually somewhere the other day, I can't
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remember. And I overheard somebody saying that there, an older woman saying that her
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son, who was in his early twenties, was seriously
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planning his retirement strategy, his financial, in his twenties, he'd only just gone to college.
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My jaw dropped open. I was like, you know, I mean, my sixties and I still haven't thought
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about it. And that's not coming from a place of
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luxury, you know, the luxury to be able to, you know, nothing
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about it. But it is a matter of values. And both of us in all
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the decade decades of our lives have have not, and part of that
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is is a certain level of naivety. But we've survived. And to me,
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the highest value is just being true to yourself. And somehow,
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And I have to say this, I do believe I have experienced that life supports you in some
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way. If you're really true to what is true in you,
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life supports you. It may not be, you know,
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and not necessarily in the way that you imagine as well.
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That's right. There must be no imagination.
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but it does support in some way the goodness of life does support it.
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It's not that you're just going to win the lottery or something.
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It's not from that place, but you can actually live very simply and survive.
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And then obviously when as things flow and grow, then more resources are required to
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support that, which is growing, just like a tree needs nutrients
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to grow and then life supports that. But when we
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push, it's like when we push the river, when we force it, when we strive and some, of course,
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then you know, as things grow, then a certain more attention and structure is required.
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But that comes with time. It's like having a baby.
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When the baby's just born, you don't start creating a structure for its education and
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this and that and this and that. You allow it to
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blossom into itself and to, well, ideally, yeah. So it grows into itself and then structure
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comes and then discipline comes and then, you know,
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boundaries. But you nurture something first. And I'm really just equating that with when
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something moves in you, whether that's a work of art or a poem or a book or an enterprise
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of something or something that wants to be born
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in the world, you don't push it and strategize it and manipulate it and squeeze it and have
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a tight agenda for it because you kill that which wants to blossom. And I feel and experience
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that life does support that. It's like a hand that comes in and guides it.
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I think that you said something very interesting, which is the influence on the unconscious
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ancestral influence that comes to bear on us, that does somehow, you know, if we're
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not careful or get, you know, become aware of it, guide our
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hand through life. Yeah, the, the father's, do you know, guiding it, you've got to be
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this, you've got to be that and the mother kind of
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ought doing doing the same thing. And in a way, you know, I see you can't, one can't
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really serve two masters in the sense that if you're still
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attached to the influence in a hidden way or in
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a overt way of the parents compounded by the society, you can't really serve God as well.
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I don't think you can serve those two inner God being the divine or the divine destiny
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or the pull of the beloved or whatever it is in your
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deepest. I actually don't know whether you can
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serve those two masters, one of them has to go at a certain point.
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I think that's right. I think that's right. And I think it's an astute observation and
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one that would be valuable for many. And I think, certainly
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for myself, that that was the sacrifice. Yes. My father wanted me to be something.
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He wanted me to be a doctor or something, you know,
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a medical doctor. Very successful medical. That's what he wanted to be.
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Yeah, well, that was to make out for the fact that he wasn't. Yeah, but he knew that that
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would be a path that would bring success or financial
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security and blah, blah. And so he wished me as
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as much as he could down an academic path. My mother wanted me to have a,
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I don't know, lovely home and a husband and a family
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and all the riches of the world and so that she could say to her family,
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"Look, my daughter is this that." And neither of those did I.
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(laughs) In fact, quite the opposite.
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But that's because I sacrifice that. And with that comes, yes, you are a misfit.
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I did feel like the black sheep. I did feel like the ugly duckling of what
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loose family I had, you know, what, vague family.
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And that's the sacrifice. I feel it, the service, if you like,
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giving oneself to God, the beloved, the divine, that inner, the inner, not the outer, the
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inner is primary, is primary, come what may. And I think all riches, whatever that means
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and I don't mean material riches, although that might be part of it, come from that.
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And I'll just add something else here because as you were talking it reminded me of the
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archetype or the myth of Prometheus. And I'd like to bring that in because I do
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think it's very different for each person. I think that which you speak of, you can't
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serve two masters if you like, is true for everyone.
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if we give into the matrix of conditioning, then it's not gonna be true fulfillment.
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Maybe it's success, I don't know. But how the journey of it
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is actually different for each person. For myself and for you, Kaby,
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because we're both aquariums, we embody or the pattern that we've,
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the imprint that we've been born into is the archetype of Prometheus,
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which is, well, two aspects of that, I think are relevant here.
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One is that Prometheus brought the fire of the gods to humanity.
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And that's what we're talking about. Whatever that means, the fire of the gods
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is the spirit of God, the divine and not the, that's, you know, the matrix of conditioning,
33:52
the man-made structures and agendas, the true calling, the true understanding, the true
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light, if you like, whatever four more shapes that comes in.
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So both of us have that, I know I have it in droves.
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To me, that's more important than anything. I don't know, I never knew what that would
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look like, but I was always listening to an inner calling.
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I was only interested in the inner dimension of consciousness and what that meant for being
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human. And that's one aspect of the myth of Prometheus.
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The other one is that he was doing that for bringing the fire, stealing the fire of the
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gods and bringing it to humanity. He had his little peg to put.
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Every day. Over and over again.
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It did heal in between times though. Well, it grew back and then it would get pecked
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out again. So that was his punishment.
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Now, what does that mean? For us, I speak for both of us, I'll speak
35:12
for myself. That means it's been a long journey.
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It has been that. It has, there has been a kind of live of pecking
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out. the fire of the gods has imbued this life,
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if you like, and then something gets born or expressed
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and it's stripped away. And then something else and it's stripped away. And part of that
35:49
liver being pect out is also the sort of, in this
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case, parental pressure and shame and being a misfit and all this. And eventually, the
36:01
end of the myth of Prometheus is that he's, I can't remember something. It's an eagle?
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Yeah, an eagle or something comes down and liberates him from the chains. And yeah, so
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he is then serving humanity with the divine. So there is redemption.
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And I think that's been part of our story. And I'm saying that because it's for each
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person, there's a different archetype. And that's not necessarily the same for everyone.
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It's good idea to find out that archetype, because when I discovered that
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it actually made sense on a level that I couldn't even barely touch with my mind.
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But my mind, it appealed to my mind as well. But there was much deeper.
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It actually appealed to my soul or to my heart or to some part of me that did want an answer
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in a way to what is the point in this? What is my purpose here?
36:55
And the reason why I just, you know, resonated with the liver pecking out, you know, was
37:04
that it, when I accepted that, and I realized that what that meant was that I had to live
37:11
now, not in the future when I expected my liver to become healed or unpacked out, the
37:18
day that it didn't happen. Well, then it'll be the day that I serve my true purpose of
37:23
bringing fire of love to people in whatever way that I can. And when I let go of any future
37:31
sense that it was going to be somewhere in the future, then I was able to start doing
37:36
it now to the extent that I can, which is not grandiose, which is just in this kind
37:41
of presence. So that was a great relief for me, that one.
37:45
That's right. And I totally relate to that.
37:47
I used to live in the one day syndrome. I always had a sense from an early age and
37:53
that story or situation in the career's office was part of it, a reflection of it.
38:02
But I did have something, a destiny if you like.
38:06
It wasn't necessarily grandiose, but I knew there was something unique
38:09
that wanted to come through. I didn't know what it was.
38:18
But that also created a kind of one day syndrome. One day I will, I don't know,
38:30
be who I'm meant to be. one day, and so on and so on.
38:34
And I too had to undo that whole belief system and totally live in the now without agenda.
38:44
And luckily, if you like, awakening, awakening out of the ego identity,
38:52
out of the dream of self, allowed me to totally live
38:56
in the fullness of now, without agenda. And then there was no need to do this or do
39:02
that or dream of one day.
39:05
It just took its own course. I mean, there was still somehow a sense of
39:12
something was emerging, but there was no tugging on it
39:19
or digging into it to find out what it is. - Or dependency on it.
39:25
- Happiness was not dependent on that. That's right. - Yes, yeah.
39:28
happiness. True peace was not dependent on that. And as you know, of course, we lived
39:34
for many years in the not knowing and not doing. And in some ways, nothingness. Yeah.
39:45
If you like our own cave in the world, you know, not in the mountain top, but in the
39:55
world, but it wasn't a cave that caused us to retreat or retract, but it was very much
40:02
a simplification of any interaction with the world. And that was fine for a long time.
40:11
It wasn't fine to my mother, but that's another story. But it was fine for us, very fine.
40:18
And what I want, I do want to make sure that we convey that, you know, we're actually not
40:26
speaking or pontificating from the lap of luxury here, that, you know, just to just
40:32
to be clear, you know, I was, we were, we were in England.
40:37
And I had no adventurous kind of spirits, at least on the outside ever in my life.
40:43
I was a very kind of scared of that whole idea.
40:47
And then a motor had this kind of purpose, you know, which wasn't a vote, but was like
40:55
there completely. And then by and by after we'd been to America,
40:59
you know, two or three times just on the three month visa and we'd come to check it out.
41:04
And it was, you know, there was something happening.
41:07
I felt feel it was something happening, but it was very much your purpose, really.
41:13
Or you, not your purpose, but you with the leader of it.
41:17
You were the guide of it. You were the main instigator of it.
41:21
And I really had to hang onto your coattails, you know,
41:25
in order to come over and go way beyond my comfort zone.
41:29
We came over to America and let me tell you everybody,
41:32
we came over with Zip. we came over with nothing, we came over with
41:36
no funds, we came over with no, you know, money in the
41:40
bank or anything. We came over here and we were innocent and
41:44
we were in some ways. Thank God we were innocent because of our
41:48
unknown, how expensive or how difficult that stuff. It was going to be.
41:51
And you know what, after we've been here since 2016 and, and all this time
41:56
later, it's made me something that I wasn't. It carved something into me.
42:02
It opened me up to a level of grace, of determination, of maturity, of adulthood,
42:09
that I had no idea that I was even capable of such things.
42:15
And that's given the life of purpose, which is this is related to purpose.
42:20
Such a deep meaning. - Yes.
42:22
- I cannot speak to it so as highly as a, yeah.
42:26
- Yes, yes. And again, that's a sort of personal example
42:30
of a deep listening, certainly on my part, I had no agenda to come to the United States.
42:39
- Although you had had something like many years ago.
42:42
- Well, yeah, yes, and that's part of it. When I was in my very, in the straight jacket
42:50
of my academic, it wasn't a career. I was just doing research.
42:55
- It's a great description of your own. - It was a straight jacket, it really was.
43:00
I love it, I love it. I, because the research I was doing was very
43:06
cutting edge and therefore not acceptable at
43:10
the university that I was, but I still pursued it in some ways.
43:15
Because it was cutting edge, the only research that was anywhere close to it was actually
43:24
American research. was none in the United Kingdom that had came
43:31
anywhere close to it. So there was always this pioneering side of the world of psychology
43:38
in the US. And so the research articles that I was reading at that time were American and
43:45
that led me to read various magazines relevant to psychology that were American because they
43:56
didn't seem to exist in England. And I was in my early twenties, but in reading
44:03
them and in seeing some of the images that were actually just sort of adverts in the
44:13
magazine for a conference in somewhere or other and so on. They spoke to me on such
44:20
a deep level that there was something in me at the time that said, "That's where I'm going
44:25
to be." In fact, I remember that the mountains were, I don't know if it was Sedona or something
44:32
like that, but they're very similar to the mountains here in, well, the landscape, the
44:36
geography here in New Mexico. So it spoke to me. And then it just got forgotten. It
44:42
got shut down. But that was always there. And then
44:47
it wasn't. But when it reemerged much, much, much, much, much later. And that's what brought
44:54
us here. It was a kind of knowing, it was a kind of
44:59
knowing that whatever had taken place in England was done. It was done. There wasn't anywhere
45:09
to go with it, and I don't mean on the external level.
45:12
I mean on the internal level. Whatever growth, inner growth through many challenges
45:19
had taken place, something was finished, and we could stay there and almost sort of decay,
45:28
it felt like. Or we could follow an impulse, which is what it was. And that's how it happened.
45:37
And yes, and then everything is sacrificed. It's not a career path. It's not a plan.
45:44
It didn't have a plan and we didn't go with anything. And I know many people say, well,
45:51
came to America with nothing, but they're usually in their 20s. We were in our mid-50s,
45:59
and we really came with nothing. So that's what I mean about
46:04
sacrificing something. And then you fall into the
46:08
unknown, and life takes care. And some of it was not comfortable, and some of it was
46:13
not easy, but it all felt absolutely right. It all felt
46:17
part of divine plan, if you like. And so here it is.
46:23
I think, you know, there's something that comes up within that is that you, I mean,
46:28
one has to be prepared to dig deep, really, into serving whatever is in there. I mean,
46:38
you know, I work with people and I, everybody has. It's in there. Something is in there.
46:46
It doesn't have to be big. You don't have to
46:48
set the world on fire in a way that is the ego.
46:52
Yeah, that it's not an ego thing. It's a spirit. It's a soul thing. It could be small,
47:01
but then then to have the willingness to go beyond and serve that and serve it,
47:07
because I've seen that and I've felt that we've, we've, you know, fall into service.
47:13
Well, service is purpose. That is, as the great, you know, as Ram Das said, I mean,
47:18
with Babaji, serve people. I walked, what shall I do in
47:22
this world? Maharaji, that said Ram Das to Maharaji,
47:28
serve people, love everyone, serve them. You know, it sounds naive, but that's not naive.
47:35
That's like extraordinarily powerful. - And there are many ways to serve.
47:40
- Absolutely. - I mean, I never had any idea that I'd be,
47:46
if you like, dialoguing with so many people through all our teaching, what have become
47:52
teaching programs. I was a recluse.
47:57
I would rather, you know, stay in my ivory castle behind my desk
48:04
and not speak with anyone and just write and write my wisdom, if you like, or write from
48:12
the divine. But that's not how life is. And the movement
48:20
was to serve, not because it was some, again, egoic agenda, but simply to speak with people
48:28
and somehow service started to take place. And that pulls you out of your comfort zone.
48:35
Certainly did for me. And there's a lot of growth and there's a
48:39
lot of inner richness and maturity that comes from that.
48:43
And now it's just service to that. What that form is, is constantly evolving.
48:51
And so one doesn't know in five years or 10 years what it's going to look like.
48:56
All I know is that I'll be always in service to this,
49:02
which is love ultimately, which is light. You heard the light, not the self-serving
49:09
agenda. Well, I know that you've been through quite
49:16
a few fires in being willing to serve this because I know how you were and
49:24
some of the self-consciousness, for instance, that you used to carry around. And then, you
49:29
know, you've just sort of, I don't know, you're willing to
49:35
sit in the fire of that and buy and buy, it's sort of forged something. You know, that's
49:43
what to me, that's what we need for each other,
49:46
yeah? Because the light of purpose, the light within,
49:51
is actually delicate because it's very easily extinguished in this harsh reality.
49:57
It really is. We don't live in a spiritual world. We don't live in a place that says,
50:02
you know, we don't all go to free school. We go to these schools that drum us,
50:07
unless you're very, very blessed or very graced, which is a beautiful thing,
50:11
it sort of stamps you as though you're just another one on the conveyor belt, honestly.
50:17
And we buy into that because we're ignorant of foolish and naive, and that's what our
50:23
parents did. And then we come out the other end. I mean,
50:26
Alan Waters talked about the sausages of it. He always talked about the
50:30
sausage, factory, nature of life. Chucks you out the other end. Well, maybe
50:35
you're kind of happy, but a lot of the time you're not
50:38
happy. And so there's the tenuous little, and we're living in different times now.
50:44
We're living in the times where this fire is within and we meet loads of people, lots
50:49
of people who like surfing on it and it's like how to
50:54
encourage that flame within, you know, because it is about
51:00
serving love, it is about serving light, it is about serving presence. I know what I wanted
51:06
to say to you. There's an event that I did a couple
51:12
of weeks back, actually, the weekend. And a woman was asking me, and
51:16
she was a young woman, and she had been a meditator, and had
51:21
been a spiritual person, and she was very happy about
51:23
that, and she reached her piece and everything like that.
51:26
But then life came along, and events changed for her, and she
51:28
had twins. And so she's got these four, I think they're four, four
51:33
year old, and they're like, you know, they're intense, all consuming,
51:38
you know, and she was feeling that she had lost
51:43
her herself. She had lost her spiritual acumen and she didn't kind of reconcile these two
51:50
different kind of realities. And I'm not the front of
51:54
knowledge of all of that kind of stuff, but I
51:57
I encourage there to drop the past referencing and be here with this because your purpose
52:04
is showing up now actually. Thank you, that's right.
52:06
And be full with the purpose that you've got because actually, because actually this
52:11
is the purpose, right? Now.
52:14
is served in all activities and in all expressions, unless it's greed and corruption, of course,
52:29
lies greed and corruption. I'm not talking about that, but whether it's children, nurturing
52:37
children, whether it's nurturing plants, whether it's nurturing animals, whether it's
52:43
nurturing food, whether it's nurturing whatever it is, love is served, or not. So there is
52:54
the doorway in everything. So it's not about being spiritual and having a spiritual activity,
53:02
but serving that which is appearing in your life now. And then the next thing unfolds,
53:07
and the next thing unfolds. None of it is static.
53:11
No, that's right. Children are not going to be children forever.
53:13
No, that's right. And they actually want your presence, which
53:16
is your purpose. Your purpose is to be present with your children.
53:20
And it's a very true of the Zen statement, which is "Chopwood, Carri Water."
53:24
That's your purpose. In that moment, that's your purpose.
53:27
Can you be full in that? Because if you're full in that, really full
53:32
in that, by and by, you just kind of lead on almost to the next, to the next.
53:37
Right. about your inner purpose, your primary purpose
53:41
first, which is to be fully present and unconditionally in service to what is as it unfolds in your
53:51
life. So there's no regret or agenda or striving in it to be fully present in that. Something
53:59
transforms within and eventually it transforms on the external. I believe so. Inner purpose
54:09
leads to outer purpose. They're related. But to start with the outer purpose,
54:17
puts a kind of damper or lid on the inner purpose. So whilst it might be temporarily
54:27
satisfying, because you think you're doing the right thing,
54:30
you're doing a spiritual thing or whatever it is,
54:33
But actually, the inner purpose is being diminished or extinguished,
54:39
and eventually it stops being fulfilling. Yes.
54:42
Yes. So it must come from within first.
54:45
I heard you, we're going to wrap this up, but I've heard you talk before about how the
54:52
mind, when it stops being the tyrant of who we are,
54:56
actually, by and by, and we go to a deep placement, we'll fall
55:00
into line and become the servant of that, which we are in our essence, and then you've
55:05
got purpose. Then you've got the divine movement of purpose. You've got enthusiasm. You're
55:12
enthused. You're filled with something. Filled with a kind of energy. There's a lot of energy
55:21
for what you do. And also there's a natural rhythm in it. A natural kind of harmonic,
55:34
I would say. Yes. That's right. It is actually, you know, has been, it is a very beautiful
55:43
subject to talk about, you know, on this level, because it does open us up because most people
55:50
do have this fire within them that needs to be expressed in their own unique way, not
55:59
in a way that is up ahead, but actually in a
56:01
way that creates a soul, a soul satisfaction. And that does matter. It does count for something.
56:09
You know, we're not just linear beings living in a cultural ideology, you know, we're divine
56:16
beings who are cool to serve love in whatever way we can. So I'm very pleased with this
56:24
conversation. I've enjoyed it immensely. Thank you for sharing your story of your non-Korea
56:31
path way back when you were young and innocent.
56:35
Just as a final note, I remember in the early days when
56:40
I started speaking in public or there were a few interviews here and there about when
56:46
I started teaching from the place of awakened consciousness
56:50
and there are quite a few comments, oh she's turning
56:53
this into a career path. Well, people do see that. So far, far, far from the truth.
57:01
Yeah, people do see that. Well, we only see through the eyes of our own paradigm.
57:09
Yeah. Anyway, here you are. But that's the thing. That's the thing. Ultimately,
57:15
one can only ever really be true to oneself. And you do that, and then you have to
57:22
to accept whatever happens as a consequence or after that,
57:26
because the more you do step into something to do with your purpose, the more of a gamble
57:33
you take in the world of form.
57:36
And people do throw things out of you. You don't just have to be a famous celebrity
57:41
for people to throw things out of you. People are, we live in the world of judgment
57:45
and people will project and judge and overnight that.
57:48
And that's one of the measures of forging the deeper human being is to be resilient
57:53
even in that. - Well, yes, I think there's a huge maturity
57:58
and dignity, an integrity that can grow from that.
58:02
Yeah, I, you know, where in the early days I saw it as,
58:06
you know, a kind of an attack. And, you know, why am I doing this?
58:11
You know, I didn't ask for this, and I'd rather just be in my cave
58:17
in my ivory castle, hidden away, so much easier. But in just, you know, there's a kind of fire
58:28
that burns in that. I don't mean a fire that overcomes it, but it just purifies something
58:33
within oneself. Certain ego defenses, yeah, whether that defense is like, Oh, don't do
58:40
that to me. And you know, that's a kind of defendedness. And then you just, it burns
58:47
a way impureifies and something matures in that and the more something matures, the more
58:52
something, the more kind of inner dignity there is in that without being defensive or
59:00
attacking or trying to hide or trying to do anything. Actually, the more you can handle
59:07
and the more you can give. It's part of growth.
59:12
- It is part of growth. Okay, that's enough.
59:15
We have to get on with our purpose, which is lunch.
59:19
- Indeed, it is right now. - Taking the dog out for a pee pee.
59:24
Thank you so much for listening. If you wanna come and be on retreat with us,
59:28
come and be on retreat with us. We've got live retreats going out this year.
59:32
One on the east coast of the US in July at a very nice place.
59:37
And, you know, it's-- - And we're also in the Bay Area soon.
59:41
in the Bay Area or of course. And it's such a joy to meet people face to face and for
59:47
us all to be together in the physical form. So if that
59:50
moves you otherwise, you know, thank you so much for
59:53
listening or watching. We'll see you again soon. Like, subscribe and be well. And we'll
1:00:02
see you soon. Thank you so much, Amoda. Thank you. Bye bye.
1:00:05
Bye. [BLANK_AUDIO]