Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Music Conservatory Brainiac Naked, Muddy, Kills 4

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Music Conservatory Brainiac Naked, Muddy, Kills 4 · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Four dead bodies and a
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: naked man covered in mud On your doorstep. Four dead
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: bodies and a naked guy covered in mud, raise your doorbell.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: That's how this whole thing goes down. Crime Stories with
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Let's start at the best place to start,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: the beginning with a nine one one call. Take a listen,
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: crying police finds recorded Hello grotten, please, how are you good?
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: We're a you for? This is a Jim Moore, Rockport
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: Police batman and Rockport mean. Okay, what I've got is
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: a mental health Is this a Ryan Cross? Holy cow? Yes,
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: it is you? Like the fifth call, We've got an answer.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: We've got an officer on the scene, and we got
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: the ums on the way. Is there any does he
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: have any weapons? Do we know or we none that
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: I know of. I got a call from one of
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: his former teachers in Oberlin. Yes, mister head Dad, Okay, okay,
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: I talk to him. Okay, all right, We've we've got
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: people on scene, sir. All right, very good. Thank you.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: They got a lot bigger problem than what they know
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: of right there. Again, thank you for being with us.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Let me introduce you an all
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: star panel to make sense of the four dead bodies.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: I'm less worried about the naked guy than I am
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: about the four dead bodies. You know, when I first
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: started prosecuting, I had never really seen a naked guy
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: at a crime scene before. I've been in a lassroom
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: studying Shakespearean literature. But for some reason I got used
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: to seeing naked guys sometimes covered in mud. But when
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: a civilian goes to the door and sees a naked
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: guy completely covered in mud, I guess they do call
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: nine one one with me. Dale Carson, veteran criminal defense
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: attorney joining us out of Jacksonville. But what I really
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: like about him is the fact that he's a former FED, a,
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: former FBI agent, former cop, and author of Arrest Proof Yourself.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: I don't like that part. You can find him at
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: Dale Carson Law dot com. Doctor Angela Arnold joining me
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: renowned psychiatrists out of the Atlanta jurisdiction at Angela Arnold
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: MD dot com. Dan Coorstantino former police chief and Fountain, Colorado,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: former sheriff and on US Homeland Security Senior Advisory BOARDIESPI
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: now at dan Coorstantino dot com. Doctor Todd M. Barrp
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: Medical examiner, forensic pathologist joining us out of Cleveland, and
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: An Jeanette Levy First to You, Emmy nominated reporter and
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: anchor Twitter at An Jeannette five and Jeannette take a
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: Listen to our friend the Middlesex District Attorney Mary and
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Ryan Listen. On Thursday evening, mister Krause left his home
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: in Rockport, Maine. Shortly after he left, his mother, Missus Krause,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: had some concern about where he might be going. She
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: reached out to the Rockport, Maine police, indicating the vehicle
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: that her son was driving. She was reassured by being
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: contacted by her son early on Friday morning indicated he
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: was fine. He had traveled to the Great of Boston area.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: Later on Friday morning, Ryan Krause contacted his mother again
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: and ask for a ride back home to me. She
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: agreed to come to the Great of Boston area and
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: pick him up, which she did. The original plan was
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: for them to return back to the family home. At
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: some point a decision was made to go and visit
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: Orian's grandparents in Grayton. So we're hearing so far about
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: a grand man calling his mom saying I'm on the
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: way to Boston and then they join up and they
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: head to the grandparents. But now take a listen to
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: our friends at WCVB Channel five, Boston investor dators say
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: they got a call for help from a location near
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: this home. Police responded, they found that individual, gathered some information,
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: then travel to another location on Common Street. At that
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: location they found for deceased individuals. There is no cause
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: for alarm. This was not a random act. We do
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: believe at this point that the people were all connected
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: and had relationships and the town is safe as it
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: pertains to this particular incident. State police are expected back
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: on the property with dogs and possibly a drone. The
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: medical examiner, leaving not too long ago, straight out to
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: doctor Todd M. Barr, deputy medical examiner joining us out
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: of Cleveland. Doctor Barr, that is a medical examiner's nightmare.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, what's the first thing you do when you
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: go into a residence a tree lined street crime rate
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  Speaker 1: and you find mass murder? Well, Nancy, it's it's a
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: It's one of those things where you you've got to
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: go in and you just got to start absorbing the
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: information as you go very slowly. We work very meticulously
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: from the outside end. The first thing we do is
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  Speaker 1: not go directly to the bodies. You want to start
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  Speaker 1: from the outside end so that you don't miss any
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: evidence or any blood spatter or any kind of evidence
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  Speaker 1: that may come back around to help solve this crime.
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  Speaker 1: For instance, like was the door forced open? Was the door?
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  Speaker 1: Are there bloody fingerprints on the door? Is the flower
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: pot kicked over where there may have been a spare key?
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: Are their treadmarks, footprints like moody footprints, footprints at the
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: the the doormat at the front. And then you know
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: a lot of people believe this is just on TV,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: but you guys fully suit up in footies like surgical footies.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: Explain that part for people that have not been on
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: a crime scene. You guys actually look like um pasmat works.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: You're so totally covered. Tell me the whole thing. Well,
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  Speaker 1: the reason for that is so as not to disperse
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  Speaker 1: any trace evidence or disturb anything, or introduce or transfer
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: DNA evidence. That means, yeah, I mean, god forbid one
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  Speaker 1: of your hairs ends up on a mass murder scene exactly. Ay,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: of course, we know immediately would figure out at some
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: point that it was yours. But then that would give
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: the defense the perfect argument about contamination and evidence could
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: be thrown out. That's just what you don't I want
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: you to tell me what do you guys wear Exactly?
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: We wear these ka sort of jumpers, jumpsuits that zip up,
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  Speaker 1: and you have the hood and the hairnets and the
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: gloves and the booties over the shoes, so everything is
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: pretty much covered. Okay, So you start on the outside end.
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: You get a call you hear from a cop. There's
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: four dead bodies, which means the cop has already gone
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: in and possibly contaminated the same. But the reality is
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: they have to They've got to go in. I always
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: hate that at trial Dell Carson, where people Dell Carson,
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: just like you say, the cops contaminated the scene. What
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: do you want them to do stand outside and wonder
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: what's going on on the inside. Well, and on the
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: off chance that somebody is still alive, they want to
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: go in and try to help someone. That's exactly Champion Dale.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: This is the first and most important object of law
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: enforcement is to make sure that if someone is still alive,
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  Speaker 1: that they can be protected. So that's the first thing.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: The second thing, obviously is to look for the assailant.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: So that's what why cops go in. But it's great
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: for the defense attorney because when they do that, they
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: introduce trace evidence into the scene, which, in a sense,
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: as you say, contaminates it and there's not a thing,
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: Dan Corsentino, they can be done about that. You're the
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: former police chief, what do you tell your cadets. Well,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: we're telling our people that they are first of all observing,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: and we want them to observe before they enter, to
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  Speaker 1: make sure that there is absolutely no contamination. And I
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: think that doctor Tom Barr obviously Dale hit the nail
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: on the head. You don't want to compromise the scene.
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  Speaker 1: The integrity of the scene is most important. Also, let
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: me just comment that yes, the individual people that are
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: inside the house, should there be one alive, that certainly
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: is a very important factor. But law enforcement also is
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: looking at the perimeter of the scene to see the
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: path of least resistance in and the path of least
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  Speaker 1: resistance out, if you will, wear this individual, the potential
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: suspect in this case, how they exit it. And so
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: you're going to be paying very close attention to the
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  Speaker 1: perimeter as much as once you get into the scene itself. Absolutely,
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: and again I can't stress enough how infuriating it is
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: a trial when the defense jumps on the cop for
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: possible contamination of a crime scene. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace,
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: we are talking about four dead bodies found on a rural,
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: a tree lined street, a low crime rate, which makes
• 10:18
  Speaker 1: it all the mark more a stark comparison. How did
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: it all happen? And how does some other guy end
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: up buck naked, covered in mud on somebody's front doorstep. Guys,
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: I want you to take a listen to our cut nine.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: This is our friends. Julie Nonsch at WCVB, Middlesex DA.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: Marion Ryan says it all began when Kraus, a recent
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: college grad and musician, left his home and his mother
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: in Rockport, Mean the night before. She was so concerned
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: she called police. She was reassured by being contacted by
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: her son early on Friday morning. Wyndicated he was fine.
• 10:58
  Speaker 1: He had traveled to the Great of Boston Area Authority
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: see Krause asked for a ride home, and his mother agreed.
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  Speaker 1: At some point, a decision was made to go and
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: visit Oriyan's grandparents in Gratton. Hours later, four adults, eighty
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: nine year old Frank Darby Lucky, He's eighty five year
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: old wife Elizabeth, Their daughter Elizabeth Buffy Krause, age sixty,
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  Speaker 1: and Bertha May Parker were found dead. What I don't
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  Speaker 1: get yet is a connection between the naked muddy mcguiye
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  Speaker 1: on the doorstep and the four dead bodies and an
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  Speaker 1: overprotected mom worried about her grown son who took his
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  Speaker 1: car to Boston and she wants him to check in constantly.
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: Let's go to the scene. Joining me right now, Anjeanette Levy,
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: Emmy nominated reporter and anchor. Anjeanette tell me about the area. Well,
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: you've mentioned it was a nice tree line street. You know,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: it sounds like just a lovely little neighborhood where this
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: family lived. And you know, there were two older people
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: there in the home. And also obviously o'rian's mother had
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: taken him to see his grandparents. Those were the two
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: older people. You know. I'm thinking about this, Doctor Angela
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: Arnold psychiatrist joining me out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. I
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: have been accused of being overprotective. I mean, how can
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: I help but be overprotective when I see kidnaps and
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: murders and sex assaults all day long. But you would
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: think when your son is grown, you wouldn't be all
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: worried just because he takes a day trip, much less
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: call police because your son hasn't called you, and then
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: within one hour he does call you. When does it
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: cross the line from being overprotective to some kind of
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: a mental mental disorder? You know, Nancy, there are mothers
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: that are overprotective for no good reason, and that is
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  Speaker 1: definitely their own issue because as a mother you and
• 12:55
  Speaker 1: I both know, and a mother, while your child grows up,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: you have to slowly pull your influence away from that
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: child and allow them to grow, saying, and so if
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: someone has been over protective of a twenty something year
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: old a college grad, yeah, that's I mean, the kid
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: was able to go to a college. Oberlin is a
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  Speaker 1: really good college, really say music there. These are not
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: easy programs to get into. And he was away apparently
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: for four years studying music at Oberlin College. It's a
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: very rigorous program. And he's graduated and he's out driving
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: his car to Boston, which is what like an hour
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: and a half from there something like that, which is
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: not an unusual thing for someone of his age to do. So.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: I don't understand why the mother feels the need to
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: be checking in with him, and for goodness sake, to
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: call the police because she thinks because he's left. Yeah,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: I'm sure that I wonder if you know. Let me
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: just ask I've got three former cops with me right now.
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: Let me ask you, Dan Corsentino, former Chief of Police Fountain, Colorado,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: did you ever have over protective moms calling nine one
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  Speaker 1: one no on their adult children, like I don't know
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: where they are. I've never had that my career. Okay,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: then I'm marking you off. What about it, Dell Carson. Well,
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: we've had checks where people called and want somebody to
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: be checked on, but generally it doesn't involve just having
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: left in a car and gone someplace. In the mother's thought, Well,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: can I tell you something, Della Carson and doctor Angela
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: Arnold and Dan Corsentino, We're all wrong. Mommy had reason
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: to worry. Take a listen to our cut eleven. This
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: is Christina Hagar WBZ, Boston. It was shortly after that
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: he showed up at his grandparents neighbor's home and Gront
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: naked and muddy. He says, I need I need help,
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: and then he adds, right, I murder four people. He
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: said that right straight out to me and my wife.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: It has stunned the small town of Groton, where residents
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: gathered for a weekend vigil, flowers and a flag at
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: the murder scene. Days later, police still watching over and
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: just as that neighbor here was calling police, so were
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: family members saying a friend had contacted them with concerns
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: about something O'Ryan Krause had told them. By then it
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: was too late. He is now in Bridgewater State Hospital
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: undergoing a psychiatric evaluation. He's being held without bail. Take
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: a listen now to this second nine one one call, Well,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: let me quarter one he is. I'm calling for forty
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: two Common Street. My name is Wagner cost We have
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: a young guy about twenty years old, completed, naked with mud.
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: He's a little bit crazy and he keeps saying that
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: he murder four people. Don't know kid. I let him
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: sit in the backyard. He's just sitting in a chair.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: But he stay in the line with me. Don't hang up, okay,
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: hold one, we got into the unit. You cat head
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: over the forty two Common Street. There's a point of
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: a psychiatritiue, I'm gonna mail party, no clothing on, covering
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: mud yelling at somebody at a house at forty two. Okay, sure,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: I have them on the way. I'm just gonna stay
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: in the line with you while while while they're on
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: the way. Okay, okay, I'm about I'm gonna kick. I'm
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: gonna get the kid Powell. I wouldn't I wouldn't go
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: anywhere near him. Okay, do not go anywhere near him. Okay,
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: that's fine. I'm looking into the window. Keep sitting in
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: the backyard, that's fine. Just let him, let him sit there. Oh,
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: dear Lord in heaven, the neighbor. I was gonna approach
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: this person, a twenty two year old Oberlin University graduate
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: with a power aid, and you hear the cops saying, no, no,
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: don't go anywhere near him, don't give him a power aid,
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: stay away. I want to go straight back out to
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: Dan Krsentino, former share of former police chief. When you're
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: just dispatch and you realize there's a life threatening situation,
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: what do you do for Pete saying don't give him
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: a power aid? I mean you could hear the dispatch
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: officer upsegue no, no, don't. Yeah. Absolutely, that's a very
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: disturbing it. That's a very upsetting situation. Absolutely, I mean
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: there's extreme caution. The inbound call that came in to
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: the dispatch center, that communication officer was on the game
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: immediately and they were attempting to isolate the good Samaritan
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: neighbor who was trying to assist those young men at
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: this time. But the dispatcher gave great advice to maintain
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: distance safety and basically contain himself in his house at
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: that time until the law enforcement arrived. As for law enforcement,
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: I know that Dell and Tom will agree. Law enforcement
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: is going to be using extreme caution based on the
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: information that they have. This is a very unusual case.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: It doesn't happen all the time, and their alert system
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: is going to go into play time stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: we are talking about a man that shows up on
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: a doorstep completely naked and covered in blood. He asks
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: for help, he wants help, and then he mentions I
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: murdered four people. Take a listen now to our cut twelve.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: This is justin darny w HDH I saw they had nothing.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: Nothing he's having So I opened the door again and
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: I asked, well, you need he goes, I need help,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: I need help. I'm murder for people. Those four people
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: O'rian Krause allegedly killed are his mom, grandparents, and his
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: grandparents caretaker officials. Suspect Kraus us a baseball bat the
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: grandparents neighbor Wagner. Al Koser thinks the nature of the
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: crime may explain why Kraus showed up on his back
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: patio naked and covered in mud, cleaning himself in an
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: earby pond. I asked him, where are you clothes? He said,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: I left it in the woods. Wagner then got Kraus
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: a white sheet. You can see him here, face still
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: covered in mud. He just sat there for a while.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: You sluck a start duel, without any expression, nothing. He
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: never had any emotion. Al Koser called police, but while
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: still showing no emotions, Kraus did tell al Koser one
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: other thing. He said, I need my sleeping belts, and
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: I said, look, just sit here, don't move. I will
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: get to help. Police arrived, taking Krause away, still in
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: the white sheet. Doctor Angela Arnold, why did we ever doubt.
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: Mommy at first, blush. You've got a mother actually calling
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: police because her college graduate son has taken their car
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: and drive into Boston an hour or so away, and
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: then she hasn't taught him, and then suddenly she gets
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: a call from him, and then everything's all right. Now
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: we understand. Was there any way on God's green earth
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: this mother did not know that he was dangerous? Oh?
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: I think she knew. I think she knew that he
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: was dangerous. And she probably lived in fear every day
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: of her life. And that's why she was so quick
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: to call the police when he went missing in her mind,
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: but in all of our minds, he didn't. He didn't
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: go missing. He just went on a trump But this
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: mother was well aware. And I have to wonder, I
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: have to wonder why she was so aware. What has
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: happened in the past, What has happened in the past.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: And let me ask you this, could someone like this
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: manage to graduate from a rigorous program at Oberlin? Yes,
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's wild. I mean, they can show you
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: know somebody like this. They're all there. They are actually
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: several different reasons why an episode like this can happen. Okay.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: There can be a health condition that causes this. Medications
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: can cause this, and drug use can cause this, and
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: people can come out of it, Nancy, and be okay
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: for periods of time when they come out of it.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: So the structure of school may have helped this man
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: get through school, and he may have been being watched careful,
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: maybe medicated. I'm just saying that. But the mother, I'm
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: not ready to buy into the fact that he I'm
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: not ready to buy into the fact that he is insane,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: which means right from wrong. At the time of the incident,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking about him going into a pond to try
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: to wash the mud off, discarding what I'm gonna guess,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: our bloody clothes. Yeah, I think I hear Anjeanette Levy
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: jumping in joining us Anjeanette jump in. Well, I just
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: wanted to bring up, you know, there were some reports
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: in the from a former professor of his at Oberlin
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: at the College Conservatory of Music, who had told police
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: that he had said at least once before this, and
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: actually right before it happened, that he wanted to kill
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: his mom or believe that he had he had to
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: kill his mom, and then he had told a nurse
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: after it happened that he had also used herolyn. So
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: if he's mentally ill and then you're coupling it with heroin,
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: he could just be spiraling out of control. Okay, stop
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: right there, Anette Levy, that's incredibly important to me right now.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: So I want to go back to doctor Angela Arnold,
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: very renowned psychiatrist joining us out of Atlanta, Doctor Angie.
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: Two things. One and I'm going to get our law
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: enforcement to chime in as well as our medical examiner.
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: People think heroin was back in the seventies, like Jimmy
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: Hendrix time. No. No, let me tell you. My husband's
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: longtime friend had the golden boy, brilliant, beautiful, handsome, a
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: star on the track team. He tried heroin one time.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: This is just a couple of years ago, Jackie. Heroin's
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: floating around in high schools. He tried at one time,
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: got hooked. The dad sent him to a psychiatric help,
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: you know, to get him off. He got off, He
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: went for a full year back in school, back on
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: the track team. Everything's fine. They find him dead of
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: a heroine overdose. It gets a hold of you like
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: nothing else I've seen that and meth I think are
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: right now the worst. But before we get to the
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: heroine possibility, I don't know that had anything to do
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: with this. Why does everybody want to kill their mother?
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: What is it about your mother? I love my mother.
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: I've never thought of actually killing her. Well, and again, Nancy,
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: we're talking about I mean, of course you don't want
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: to kill your mother, and I'll bet you don't do Haro.
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: I thought it's never crossed my mind. No, no, no, Angie,
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: no doctor Angie. If I may be so bold, people
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: that aren't on drugs kill their mothers. I mean, Norman
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: Bates was based in Hatred of your mother and in
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: case a very overbearing mother and a stuffed sitting in
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: a rocking chair for pizza. But people, what is it
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: about hating your mother and wanting to kill your remberdify
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: the problem, Dancy. And then problem is that some mothers
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: can be controlling, and when that happens to a young man,
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: sometimes they become very resistant when they get older or
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: they get on drug del Carson, as much as I
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: respect you, criminal defense attorney, former FBI author, are you
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: a shrink? Well, yeah, and in a sense I get
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: pause you're not all right, You're not. However, let me
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: back off that, because actually, any cough, anybody that's made
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: it all the way to FBI and former officer, you've
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: been around the block a couple of times, and you
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: know what you've seen. You don't have to have an
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: MD like doctor Angie to know what you just said.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: And I agree with you two, But to murder her
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: I don't understand and murder my mom fantasies, doctor Angie,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: as much as I agree with Delle Carson, Well, you
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: know you know what I'm gonna say, Nancy. I mean, now,
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: I don't terrible that this is the truth. Okay. First
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: of all, it's called matricide, the killing of the mother. Yes,
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: and Nancy, this is so horrible. It's like it's a
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: there's a combination of hatred for the mother and a
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: sexual desire. I can always count on you to just
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: kick things off, can I, Doctor Angie. Let's see, I
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: also disagree with that because girls kill their mother too,
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: not as often exactly. So, I don't think there's a
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: sex component to every well, there's not a sex component
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: to every song about sex with you, doctor Angie. Somehow,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: there's not a sex component to everything. But there's a
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: sex component to a lot of things. Okay, So if
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: it's a sex component, why about what about the other
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: dead bodies? Yah see sexually attracted to his grandfather. Well,
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: the other dead bodies. The other dead bodies could have
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: been a part of the psychosis that he was, that
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: he was involved in the at the time that it
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: was going on, and his hatred in his anger, and
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: he just killed everybody. They were just they could have
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: just been in the way, or maybe he had maybe
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: he had decided in his head that they all needed
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: to be gone. I mean, why did he kill the caregiver?
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: Why is the caregiver dead? Let me say that maybe
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: he just did not want control period crime stories with
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. I want to go to doctor Todd M. Barr,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: deputy medical examiner pathologist joining us out of Cleveland. He's seen,
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: I can only assume, and conducted thousands of autopsies. We
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: are understanding, doctor Barr, that a baseball bat is the
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: murder weapon. To me, that says rage, anger and rage. Absolutely.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: I've been on several scenes where a baseball bat has
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: been used and it is probably one of the most
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: grizzly crime scenes. I've ever been on to to assault
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: somebody with a weapon like that, and four people, My
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: mind is kind of boggled when when one person is affected,
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: but four people, how were they all trapped? How did
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: one of them not get out? Not one? Well one
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: of them did get out, Yeah, and got was murdered
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: outside the hum Hey, doctor Todd and bar let me
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: just ask you a question off topic. Sure, the way
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: you started that explanation, you said, I've had several baseball
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: bat murders. Yeah. See, that's kind of thing most people
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: don't hear every day. I've had several baseball bat murders. Say,
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: are definitely feeling far between when you are out and about.
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: Let's just say you're at a dinner party, or you're
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: at church, in Sunday school, whatever wherever you may be.
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: Do you ever find it hard to just have a
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: normal conversation about the weather, or gas prices or politics.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: I personally do not. I don't have any problem with that.
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: I have what I like to refer to as a
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: healthy detachment from the work I do and the life
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: that I live outside of my work. I'm glad to
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: hear that, because everything outside of the Twins my children,
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: and crime completely disinterests me. I'll just if I go
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: and somebody asked me about politics, don't care. You know,
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: the new cars, don't care, close jewelry, the weather, or
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: that they don't care. I'm sure that's in disorder that
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: doctor and you would like to deal. But let's move
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: on with the current case. Guys, take a listen to
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: our cutting number five from wc V. You can the
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: police still on the scene here. This is Common Street
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: in Groton. Five investigates has now learned that a baseball
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: bat may have been used in these murders. We have
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: some new video in this morning of Common Streets the
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: deadly quadruple murder scene. You can see the house from
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: the street and police still on the scene. Police discovered
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: that their bodies were in the home just after six
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: last night. Investigators say three women and a man suffered
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: blunt force trauma. Police did arrest O'rian Kraus, who they
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: believe is related to the victims. They call it a
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: tragic case of family violence. An older man and woman
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: and two middle aged women were killed. Three of the
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: bodies were found inside the home, a fourth outside, and
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: we're learning more about his demeanor articulists to Paul Burton
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: wb Z Boston. Wagner says when Krauss came to him,
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: he was acting very strange and covered in mud. Wagner
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: said he gave the man a white blanket and told
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: him to wait outside on this chair and immediately called police,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: who placed him under arrest. Was extremely calm delivering his boys.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: He surrendered himself. He didn't undersis. He did what I ask.
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: He followed my instructions all throughout the day. Neighbors and
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: passersbys could not believe the gruesome scene and police presence,
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: but glad police say this was an isolated incident and
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: not a random act. We're all touched by this in
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: some way, and my thoughts and prayers are with the family,
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: the neighbors, anybody close to them. They're sad, shocking that
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: innocent people had to go through such a horrendous death.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: Police are still investigating so far, no word on a
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: motive to Ejoinette Levy, Emmy nominated reporter and anchor A Jeannette,
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: what can you tell us about Kross's disturbing behavior immediately
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: following the quadruple murders. Well, he apparently went to the
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: home to say he had killed the people, and he
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: was also singing and saying, I freed them, I freed them. Yes,
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: he said he was singing quietly. One of the officers
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: said that he saw him and singing quietly and said,
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: I freed them. How did he come to be covered
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: in mud? Anjeanette, Well, he was cleaning himself off in
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: a pond of sorts. So as far as the mud goes,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: I'm not one hundred percent clear on that. But I
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: don't know if he was rolling around in it or what.
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: But I know that the caregiver was sounded. Wasn't one
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: of the bodies found outside in the flower bed? Well,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: if he tackled the person, the tackle the person and
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: killed her in the flower bed, I would imagine he
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: got dirty, right, But I'm also curious he had also
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: taken off all of his clothes. Were they covered in blood?
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, if this were a baseball bat quadruple murder,
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: I guess so right, and he I mean, it sounds
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: it almost sounded as if Bertha, the caregiver, was trying
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: to get out of the house, because when the police
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: went in there, they found, you know, Grandma and Grandpa
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: sitting at the kitchen table with the TV on. And
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: then Bertha, the caregiver to the grandparents, was outside in
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: the flower bed, so you would think he would have
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: already Maybe he killed the people inside, took his clothes off,
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: and then went outside and as she tried to escape,
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: But it seems like she probably would have been trying
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: to run away. What did police discover when they arrived
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: at the home. The grandparents were sitting at the kitchen table,
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: is what the police said. And the TV was on
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: in the kitchen. Wait, they were dead sitting at the
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: kitchen table, correct, And they were still sitting there. Yeah, wow, okay,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: I mean they're older, they're they're in their late eight
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: They're also dead from a baseball bat. They're sill sitting
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: there with the TV going. I understand that a wooden
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: bat with blood on it was found under a tree
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: in the backyard, along with the back of golf clubs.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: In the backyard there was a pile of clothes, a pillow,
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: a pair of shoes, which is interesting that were placed
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: not thrown in the woods nearby too. Doctor Angela Arnold,
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: what does the especially brutal nature of the bludgeoning death
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: tell us about the killer's mindset. He was so angry,
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: She was so angry at these people. How in the
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: world could someone I don't understand how somebody can bludgeon
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: and not one person, Nancy, but four people, and people
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: that he is supposed to love. He must have been
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: very angry with them. And I also believe he felt,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: in some way that we haven't uncovered yet, very controlled
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: by these well by his They aren't us Dale. And
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: the reason they went to the grandfather's house is because
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: the stable families, the matriarch and the patriarch are the
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: ones who can calm things down, because they have a
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: long view of what goes on in the world. And
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: so by taking her son to see them, she's trying
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: to establish some calming and control over him. That's why
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: they were there. We know what's really interesting to you,
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: Anginette Levy. Kraus's own mother had called police the day before,
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: not just about the missing car, but fearing her son
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: was suicidal, and she also said, um, tell them the
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: cops my son NIE's gentleness, not force. But they were
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: I mean, she obviously felt that was the best way
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: to deal with him. Maybe there had been some issues
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: in the past where she had encountered him, and um,
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: maybe he became violent at times, but it obviously didn't
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: work because they were all beaten in the head according
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: to the police report. Right, and even mom was yeah,
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: it's just so there was something something happened, and she
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: was concerned enough to call the police. And he had
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: talked about killing his mom, so yes, he had, he
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: told his instructor at Oberlin, guys, take a little Oriyan
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: Krause appeared unfazed in a courtroom with a band aid
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: on his arm, accused of bludgeoning his own mother to
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: death with a baseball bat, also his elderly maternal grandparents
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: and their caretaker, all of them here at their Grotton
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: home Friday. District Attorney Mary and Ryan explained Kraus's mother,
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: Elizabeth Lackey Krause, also known as Buffy, had contacted police
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: in their hometown of Rockport, Maine, the day before she
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: was murdered, saying her son left home. Is mother, Missus
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: Krause had some concern about where he might be going.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: She reached out to the Rockpoint, Maine police, indicating the
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: vehicle that her son was driving. But Ryan says the
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: twenty two year old then contacted his mother Friday morning,
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: saying he was okay, that he was in Massachusetts, and
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: later asked her to come get him, which she did.
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: At some point, a decision was made to go and
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: visit Oriyan's grand parents, Ingratin straight back to Anginette Levy
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: anchor and reporter. Initially the defense was considering an insanity defense,
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: but it didn't work. Why not, well, because they sent
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: him to the hospital for forty days and he was
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: deemed competent, So, you know, even if he had some
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: mental illness, they still determined that he was able to
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: understand what he was doing was wrong at the time
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: that it happened. You know, that's a fine line, del
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: Carson when you're talking about competency to stand trial versus
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: the insanity police. Insanity means you did not know right
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: from wrong at the time of the incident, and competent
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: to stand trial means at the time of the trial
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: you are in such a bad shape you cannot assist
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: your counsel. They're not the same thing. Well, that's exactly
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: right now. When you have a psychotic episode, as this
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: individual apparently had, then it also reflects some organization. Right,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: he left the evidence was stood up against the tree
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: the weapon was, and then he tried to hide the
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: blood on himself, and then he wandered to a neighbor's house.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: It shows some level of competence. He wasn't entirely psychotic
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: after the event, and then he had that post events
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: calmness that the neighbor observed what he was sitting in
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: the chair because his rage had all been expelled at
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: that point, you know, doctor Angie falling up on what
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: del Carson is saying. Typically I argue that someone is
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: not insane, that they did know right from wrong at
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: the time of the incident. But I really think this
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: guy had a psychotic episode and that he was insane
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: at the time of the incident. I rarely think that,
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: but in a lot of the fact that he had
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: threatened suicide the day before that he had called his
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: professor in the days preceding the quadruple Homas and said,
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: I think I need to kill my mother. To me,
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: I mean, you are covered in my buck naked, you're
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: trying to clean off in a pond, and then you
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: set in somebody's back seat peacefully wrapped in a sheet
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: till the cops come get you. That sounds insane to me.
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: I know, Nancy, it sounds insane to me also, and
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: it sounds like this had listen. He was thinking about this,
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: this was brewing inside of him. He got it done,
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: and then he was and done. The calmness came because
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: he got it done. Nancy, I don't understand why there
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: wasn't any intervention before this incident happened. Why didn't somebody
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: will proof of this. He pled guilty, but he got
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: four second degree murder convictions, but the reality is he's
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: going to go to a regular jail for twenty five
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: years at least. I don't like the idea of someone
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: that has mental illness or insanity in with gp general population,
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: because who knows what's going to happen to him. I mean,
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: my concern is with the victims, but I do think
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: this guy is insane. I guess we're going to have
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: to just trust that the system did the right thing
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: putting him in jail as opposed to a mental facility.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: I know this, he will not see the light of
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: day for at least twenty five years. Nancy Grace Crime
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: Story signing off Goodbye. F