Latest / The Book Deal / Believing in yourself and the benefits of constant learning with Valerie Khoo, CEO of the Australian Writers Centre

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Believing in yourself and the benefits of constant learning with Valerie Khoo, CEO of the Australian Writers Centre · The Book Deal

• 0:09
  Tina Strachan: This is the Book Deal podcast where you will discover the inspiring stories behind your favorite books.
• 0:15
  Natasha Rai: We interview seasoned and debut authors, as well as publishing industry professionals to bring you the best tips and advice on
• 0:22
  Tina Strachan: how to get that elusive book deal.
• 0:25
  Tina Strachan: So no matter what's.
• 0:26
  Tina Strachan: Stage of writing your at.
• 0:28
  Tina Strachan: We've got you covered.
• 0:29
  Tina Strachan: I'm Tina Strawn.
• 0:30
  Tina Strachan: I'm Madeline Cleary.
• 0:32
  Tina Strachan: And I'm Natasha Wright.
• 0:34
  Tina Strachan: And join us as we pull back the curtain of published authors
• 0:37
  Madeleine Cleary: one deal at a time.
• 0:43
  Madeleine Cleary: The book Deal podcast acknowledges the traditional owners, the land and waters, which it's recorded on and pays respect to their elders past, present, and emerging.
• 0:56
  Tina Strachan: Welcome to the Book Deal podcast.
• 0:58
  Tina Strachan: I'm Tina Strachan, and in this week's Ep I'm interviewing Valerie Khoo, CEO of the Australian Writer Center, host of the So You Want to Be a writer, podcast author, artist, and absolute champion for aspiring authors.
• 1:13
  Tina Strachan: When you listen to the interview with Valerie, it's very easy to see.
• 1:17
  Tina Strachan: She's passionate about lifting up authors and celebrating their successes.
• 1:22
  Tina Strachan: And this passion is what drove her to create the incredible hub that is the Australian Writers Center.
• 1:28
  Tina Strachan: With everything that it has to offer from courses to workshops, to the podcast and the community groups, it really is a trusted source of information and inspiration for all authors.
• 1:41
  Tina Strachan: So after so many years of interviewing authors and shared knowledge through the Writer's Center, Valerie is a wealth of positivity and advice to help you on your publishing journey.
• 1:52
  Tina Strachan: I hope you enjoy.
• 1:53
  Tina Strachan: Welcome Valerie Khoo to the Book Deal podcast.
• 1:56
  Tina Strachan: I'm very excited to be here.
• 1:57
  Tina Strachan: Tina, it's truly an honor to have you here today.
• 2:02
  Tina Strachan: You're such a familiar face and name in the writing and publishing industry and I feel like pretty much all Australian authors and international know who you are.
• 2:12
  Tina Strachan: Um, and you're an absolute wealth of, uh, knowledge and information, especially when it comes to motivating and aspiring rider.
• 2:18
  Tina Strachan: And that's exactly our MO here on the pod.
• 2:21
  Tina Strachan: So we are very excited to have you on.
• 2:25
  Valerie Khoo: Well, I love the world of writing and I love writers and authors, so anything I can do to help or, or, or share any information, I'm more than happy to.
• 2:33
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, absolutely.
• 2:34
  Tina Strachan: Well, so I know Valerie, uh, through your own publishing journey, um, and from the 20 plus years as the CEO of the Australian Writer Center.
• 2:45
  Tina Strachan: Um, and you're also the host of the, so You Wanna Be a Writer podcast and you've done hundreds of interviews.
• 2:52
  Tina Strachan: There's over 600 episodes on the, on the podcast now.
• 2:55
  Tina Strachan: Um, you've probably seen and heard it all when it comes to publication journeys.
• 3:01
  Tina Strachan: And so I really wanna delve deep into your advice and tips for our listeners.
• 3:05
  Tina Strachan: Um, but first I wanted to quote something that I found on your own website.
• 3:10
  Tina Strachan: Um, okay.
• 3:11
  Tina Strachan: I just thought as a way of an introduction, it, I just think it really sums you up really well.
• 3:15
  Tina Strachan: It says.
• 3:16
  Tina Strachan: I've mentored thousands of writers and creatives built programs that turn ideas into published books and helped people reshape their lives through the power of storytelling.
• 3:26
  Tina Strachan: I just think that's really beautiful and I just think that's you in a nutshell.
• 3:30
  Valerie Khoo: Oh, thank you.
• 3:31
  Valerie Khoo: I'm really passionate about helping people realize, um, that what they want to happen in their lives can happen, whether that's in the world of writing or not, but obviously that's my area of technical expertise.
• 3:43
  Valerie Khoo: So I love it when people's.
• 3:46
  Valerie Khoo: Think of something that they think is impossible, but then eventually they realize that it is possible and then it becomes reality.
• 3:52
  Valerie Khoo: So that's what motivates me.
• 3:54
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, I love that sort of, um, we, we do talk a lot about manifesting, uh, what you like, what you want, uh, in life.
• 4:03
  Tina Strachan: And that sounds a lot, uh, very similar to what you're saying there.
• 4:06
  Tina Strachan: So.
• 4:07
  Tina Strachan: So, yeah, I mean, 20 years as the CEO of the Australian Writer Center, I'm sure it's changed a lot in that time, or at least it has grown immensely anyway.
• 4:16
  Tina Strachan: Um, now offers, you know, over 80 courses, uh, it's supported over a hundred thousand students, which is, yeah, we're up to
• 4:24
  Valerie Khoo: 120,000.
• 4:25
  Valerie Khoo: Oh my gosh.
• 4:26
  Valerie Khoo: Yes.
• 4:26
  Valerie Khoo: That is an
• 4:27
  Tina Strachan: incredible stat.
• 4:28
  Tina Strachan: I'm one of them.
• 4:29
  Tina Strachan: I've, I, I, I'm a grad of the A WC.
• 4:31
  Tina Strachan: Uh, lots of authors are, um.
• 4:34
  Tina Strachan: Can you tell me how it all started with you at the Writer's center?
• 4:38
  Tina Strachan: Did you know what you're getting yourself into?
• 4:40
  Tina Strachan: What was your plan, your goals at the time, and how does that align with now and what you intended?
• 4:46
  Valerie Khoo: My goal at the time was kind of what I just said.
• 4:49
  Valerie Khoo: I'm really, really motivated by helping people achieve their dreams and helping people.
• 4:55
  Valerie Khoo: Learn and helping people change their lives.
• 4:58
  Valerie Khoo: It just so happened that my technical skill was writing because I can't coach someone to Olympic glory because I'm not very athletic.
• 5:05
  Valerie Khoo: I can't necessarily, you know, teach someone statistics or econometrics or whatever, but I can help people in the world of publishing and writing and creativity and, and that sort of space.
• 5:17
  Valerie Khoo: So it started with just two courses.
• 5:21
  Valerie Khoo: And there were six students in the first class I remember.
• 5:26
  Valerie Khoo: And I just loved seeing that light bulb moment.
• 5:29
  Valerie Khoo: And I loved then seeing their name in print, you know, um, some, they would come back to me and tell me that they got an article published or they got a book deal, or, or at least they got a, a, a publisher interested in their, in their manuscript.
• 5:45
  Valerie Khoo: And that's what's really exciting for me.
• 5:48
  Valerie Khoo: And over time, obviously.
• 5:50
  Valerie Khoo: It grew because I knew that there was deeper knowledge that was required in specific areas, and I made sure that we provided courses in that space.
• 6:01
  Valerie Khoo: And the other thing was that I did not start off as a writer.
• 6:05
  Valerie Khoo: I started off as an accountant many, many years ago, like a lifetime ago.
• 6:09
  Valerie Khoo: And when I wanted to move into the world of writing.
• 6:12
  Valerie Khoo: I found it very difficult to get information that I could trust from one place.
• 6:19
  Valerie Khoo: I got lots of information from a billion different places, some of which was good, and some of which was not as good.
• 6:26
  Valerie Khoo: And I wanted to create that hub, that one stop place where people could trust the quality to know that, um, the, the, the teaching was consistent throughout because I had been to so many places where there'd be one fantastic course, and the next course was really not at all.
• 6:45
  Valerie Khoo: I wanted to maintain a level of consistency and, and quality.
• 6:50
  Valerie Khoo: Um, and I think that also came because I came from a, the world of the corporate world and I wanted to, I wanted to apply some of those same principles of excellence that I had, um, become so used to in providing these courses.
• 7:05
  Valerie Khoo: And yeah, over time, I guess word of mouth spreads and it, it just.
• 7:09
  Valerie Khoo: Continued to grow and I continue to love seeing the successes of people to, to, to, I, I continue to love seeing when people, as I said, achieve what they once thought were was impossible.
• 7:24
  Valerie Khoo: And, and now it's their, their world, it's their reality.
• 7:27
  Valerie Khoo: And sometimes they become, you know, like.
• 7:30
  Valerie Khoo: 10 books later, I still get excited at
• 7:33
  Tina Strachan: their success.
• 7:35
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, I think that's, um, that's really interesting and I think what you were saying about trust is really important too.
• 7:42
  Tina Strachan: I, I, I very much, that's a perfect word.
• 7:44
  Tina Strachan: I think to, um, describe the Australian Writer Center.
• 7:47
  Tina Strachan: You can trust the quality of it and you can trust, um, like you were saying, you know, you don't just get.
• 7:54
  Tina Strachan: Varying levels of the courses they are, you know, that when you sign up to an a WC course, you, you, you're getting quality.
• 8:01
  Tina Strachan: I think that's really important too.
• 8:03
  Tina Strachan: Um, and like you're saying, the hub as well.
• 8:04
  Tina Strachan: It's all there isn't it?
• 8:05
  Tina Strachan: Like you can, it's like you can, if, if any of the listeners have not checked out the website yet, definitely go and do it.
• 8:11
  Tina Strachan: Scroll through the courses you'll want to do most of them, lots of them.
• 8:16
  Tina Strachan: Just pace yourself.
• 8:17
  Tina Strachan: Uh, and it is very exciting though.
• 8:19
  Tina Strachan: Like yeah, you sort of just have to choose what works for you, I guess, at the time.
• 8:22
  Tina Strachan: Um, but I think that's really lovely.
• 8:24
  Tina Strachan: I can tell that it fills your cup to see and to celebrate the success of these authors.
• 8:29
  Tina Strachan: It's beautiful.
• 8:30
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, it really does.
• 8:31
  Tina Strachan: It just makes me so happy.
• 8:33
  Tina Strachan: Well, you can, you can tell, and I think that's why it's successful as well, because you're driving it from a place of just, um, just honesty and um, and happiness too, isn't it?
• 8:41
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 8:42
  Tina Strachan: Um, so it's six, six people in the first course.
• 8:45
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 8:46
  Tina Strachan: How many are you getting through in a year now?
• 8:48
  Tina Strachan: Like, that's a very good question.
• 8:50
  Tina Strachan: It's a stat I need to look up.
• 8:52
  Tina Strachan: I don't, I dunno.
• 8:53
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, because they fill up.
• 8:54
  Tina Strachan: They definitely book out.
• 8:55
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 8:55
  Tina Strachan: A lot of the courses book out, so you, you do have to be quick when you get onto it.
• 8:59
  Tina Strachan: And, um, so it's not just, it's just the website and the courses, but also, uh, the podcast as well.
• 9:05
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 9:05
  Tina Strachan: That's been around for a long time now.
• 9:07
  Tina Strachan: So many episodes, so many amazing authors being interviewed and so much information shared.
• 9:12
  Tina Strachan: It's a free resource as well.
• 9:15
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 9:15
  Tina Strachan: Um, tell me how that came about.
• 9:18
  Valerie Khoo: Oh, that's a very good question.
• 9:19
  Valerie Khoo: It came about a while ago, I think over, you know how over Christmas you have that week where literally you've got nothing to do?
• 9:27
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 9:27
  Tina Strachan: So
• 9:28
  Valerie Khoo: you dunno what day it is, you dunno what's happening.
• 9:31
  Valerie Khoo: So I thought to myself, oh.
• 9:33
  Valerie Khoo: I should start a podcast because I'm not busy enough.
• 9:37
  Valerie Khoo: And initially I co-hosted the podcast with the lovely Alison Tate, uh, who's the author Al Tate.
• 9:44
  Valerie Khoo: And I remember just creating, I can't even remember on how I create on Photoshop or something.
• 9:50
  Valerie Khoo: Uh, just a mockup of podcast.
• 9:52
  Valerie Khoo: Cover art and with her and me on it.
• 9:55
  Valerie Khoo: And I just sent it to her and she said, okay.
• 9:57
  Valerie Khoo: So we started on this journey together, and then now she's gone off to do other fantastic things with, with, um, your kids next read.
• 10:04
  Valerie Khoo: Uh, and I've absolutely enjoyed continuing on with the podcast, uh, by myself.
• 10:09
  Valerie Khoo: But now I have roving reporters.
• 10:10
  Valerie Khoo: So Nat and Dean are roving reporters and they do a fantastic job, um, interviewing authors, but, and also contributing to the podcast.
• 10:18
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 10:19
  Tina Strachan: Uh, and that, so how long ago was it when it started the podcast?
• 10:24
  Tina Strachan: Oh goodness.
• 10:25
  Tina Strachan: That's a good question.
• 10:26
  Tina Strachan: I should have these stats.
• 10:27
  Valerie Khoo: I should probably down should have these stats.
• 10:29
  Tina Strachan: I did, I did actually try
• 10:30
  Valerie Khoo: to have a look because the thing is before that, before that there was, um, that was, so this is the second iteration of the podcast.
• 10:38
  Valerie Khoo: Mm-hmm.
• 10:38
  Valerie Khoo: Before that we had what was.
• 10:40
  Valerie Khoo: Imaginatively called the Australian Writer Center Podcast.
• 10:43
  Valerie Khoo: Mm-hmm.
• 10:44
  Valerie Khoo: So there's actually more than 600.
• 10:46
  Valerie Khoo: There's probably over a thousand, um, episodes that are online.
• 10:50
  Valerie Khoo: But that, that was a, a different beast because that was in the very early days of podcasting.
• 10:56
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 10:57
  Tina Strachan: Ah, yes.
• 10:57
  Tina Strachan: That'cause that's what I was going to say.
• 10:59
  Tina Strachan: That wasn't the early days.
• 11:00
  Tina Strachan: That was quite a novel concept then to, um, yeah.
• 11:02
  Tina Strachan: And probably, definitely wouldn't have been as much information around as there is now.
• 11:06
  Tina Strachan: Like you can just easily Google it and everyone does it just.
• 11:09
  Tina Strachan: You know, from home with the most basic of setups, which is very handy.
• 11:13
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 11:13
  Tina Strachan: But, uh, yeah, back then that would've, that would've been quite novel.
• 11:17
  Tina Strachan: Um, that's really started.
• 11:18
  Tina Strachan: So you, so from all your hundreds of guests that you have interviewed on the podcast, what is the one interview that has stood out to you the most?
• 11:31
  Valerie Khoo: I really enjoyed talking to Christos Tsiolkas.
• 11:34
  Valerie Khoo: I thought he was awesome.
• 11:36
  Valerie Khoo: I think he's an incredible author.
• 11:38
  Valerie Khoo: I think he contributes so much to the literary fabric in, in Australia, and um, and he's just a really lovely person as well, you know, so, um, that, that's definitely one of them.
• 11:51
  Valerie Khoo: I really enjoyed talking to.
• 11:54
  Valerie Khoo: Um.
• 11:54
  Valerie Khoo: Ed Ays who wrote his memoir.
• 11:57
  Valerie Khoo: Oh, it was about his memoir, whole notes.
• 11:59
  Valerie Khoo: Um, and, uh, I, I just loved that book and I just loved the, the, the subtlety and the nuance with which he wrote the book, but also just.
• 12:12
  Valerie Khoo: You know, he's, he's my conversation with him.
• 12:14
  Valerie Khoo: I
• 12:14
  Tina Strachan: guess I'm a fan, you know?
• 12:15
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 12:16
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 12:16
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 12:17
  Tina Strachan: Well that's the, one of the fun parts of having your own podcast too, is it's a really, well, I know for myself it's like, it's a really good way of getting people to talk to you.
• 12:25
  Tina Strachan: That would probably maybe just be like, uh, who's this person?
• 12:28
  Tina Strachan: Um, yeah.
• 12:29
  Tina Strachan: So it's, you know, you get to.
• 12:31
  Tina Strachan: Really enjoyable, isn't it?
• 12:32
  Tina Strachan: You can just ask them all these questions that you, that you desperately wanna know and fan out a little bit too.
• 12:37
  Tina Strachan: Be a bit of a fan girl sometimes if you wanna.
• 12:41
  Tina Strachan: Um, so what is some of the best advice that your guests have shared in an in interview that's really stuck with you?
• 12:50
  Tina Strachan: It
• 12:50
  Valerie Khoo: is actually very straightforward advice.
• 12:54
  Valerie Khoo: But it's sometimes hard for people to, um, execute that advice for some reason.
• 13:00
  Valerie Khoo: And that is simply, simply to believe that it's possible and obviously to work towards it.
• 13:08
  Valerie Khoo: You still need to not just believe you need to actually write the book, but I cannot tell you the number of people that I come across just in life or festivals or, or those sorts of things, who.
• 13:23
  Valerie Khoo: Believe that it's a closed shop who believe that they will never get a book deal.
• 13:29
  Valerie Khoo: And I'm like, well, okay.
• 13:30
  Valerie Khoo: If you want, if you believe that.
• 13:32
  Valerie Khoo: That's what's gonna happen.
• 13:34
  Valerie Khoo: Yeah.
• 13:34
  Valerie Khoo: So fundamentally, and that's why I, I also showcase a lot of our graduates because it shows that it is possible.
• 13:43
  Valerie Khoo: And the same with your podcast.
• 13:46
  Valerie Khoo: You know, you, you talk about the book deal and, and, and you show that it's possible and to show people's journeys to publication, not just of successful, already successful authors because they've got, you know, the wisdom and insight that.
• 13:59
  Valerie Khoo: That they can talk about writing, but also slightly newer ones because you can see that they weren't writers before they were physiotherapists or they were whatever, right?
• 14:09
  Valerie Khoo: And they believed it's possible and it happened.
• 14:13
  Valerie Khoo: So it's actually really simple.
• 14:14
  Valerie Khoo: It's not actually a writing technique or a journey to publication technique at the core of it, you need to know that it's possible, and I cannot tell you the number of stories I hear out there from organizations from.
• 14:30
  Valerie Khoo: You know, people who are in the writing industry who just bang on about how hard it is and, and, and how it's almost impossible to get through the slush pile.
• 14:42
  Valerie Khoo: Well, if you are going to listen to that, you, that's gonna affect you and you are going to believe it's hard and it's gonna be hard.
• 14:51
  Valerie Khoo: Whereas if you actually.
• 14:54
  Valerie Khoo: And I, and I'm not saying this in any kind of woowoo manifestation kind of way.
• 14:58
  Valerie Khoo: I, it's just fact.
• 14:59
  Valerie Khoo: You just need to believe it's possible.
• 15:00
  Valerie Khoo: 'cause quite simply it is possible.
• 15:02
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 15:02
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 15:02
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, I, I agree.
• 15:04
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 15:04
  Tina Strachan: You can call it manifestation, or you could call it taking the steps to get where you wanna be and to achieve your goal.
• 15:10
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, they're, they're very similar.
• 15:12
  Tina Strachan: Aren't they manifesting something?
• 15:13
  Tina Strachan: I mean, there's a lot of, I would, wouldn't even delve into that.
• 15:17
  Tina Strachan: There
• 15:17
  Valerie Khoo: are people, there are people who take the steps to be where they wanna be in order to achieve their goal, and, and yet don't believe it's possible.
• 15:24
  Valerie Khoo: Mm.
• 15:25
  Valerie Khoo: They say, I'm, see, I'm doing these steps and I'm not getting anywhere.
• 15:28
  Valerie Khoo: You see, so that's great.
• 15:30
  Valerie Khoo: You should do that.
• 15:31
  Valerie Khoo: Yeah.
• 15:31
  Valerie Khoo: But you need to fundamentally believe it's possible.
• 15:33
  Valerie Khoo: And if you find that hard, you need to surround yourself with people who believe it's possible and not surround yourself with the, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the pessimists.
• 15:44
  Tina Strachan: Yep.
• 15:45
  Tina Strachan: No, that's probably true for a lot of things in life, isn't it?
• 15:48
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 15:48
  Tina Strachan: Uh, with positivity.
• 15:50
  Tina Strachan: Uh, yes, I agree.
• 15:51
  Tina Strachan: That's such a powerful message.
• 15:52
  Tina Strachan: Believe it's possible.
• 15:54
  Tina Strachan: Um.
• 15:55
  Tina Strachan: I, yeah.
• 15:57
  Tina Strachan: You know, and I, I get it.
• 15:58
  Tina Strachan: Like e everyone's heard those stories, those negative stories.
• 16:01
  Tina Strachan: Um, you know, there's certainly authors who have come from, I don't know, backgrounds or they, where they have done a, I dunno, a lot of study or they've always just been.
• 16:11
  Tina Strachan: Hugely gifted at, at writing and the pathway sort of seems a little bit more open to them, or people with profiles that are getting book deals.
• 16:20
  Tina Strachan: You know, there's lots of discussion about, you know, people that already have a status or celebrity status that, that, um, are getting signed a lot easier than others, which definitely can make it harder for people, but you know, especially.
• 16:32
  Tina Strachan: Like listening to your podcast, listen to the So You Wanna Be a Writer podcast and the rest of the episodes on the book deal.
• 16:38
  Tina Strachan: We are just interviewing, just we've interviewed so many people who just wrote for the fun of it and loved it and it was their joy.
• 16:48
  Tina Strachan: And you know, they all have day jobs and they all, you know, many of them have families and just very regular lives and just.
• 16:54
  Tina Strachan: Put themselves out there, um, you know, believed in what they were, what they were doing, and what they were writing.
• 16:59
  Tina Strachan: And it came to them all.
• 17:01
  Tina Strachan: And all different pathways.
• 17:02
  Tina Strachan: So many different pathways, isn't it?
• 17:04
  Tina Strachan: There's never, absolutely not.
• 17:05
  Tina Strachan: There is not one pathway is there?
• 17:07
  Valerie Khoo: Yeah, for sure, for sure.
• 17:09
  Valerie Khoo: You know, you just, you need to, you need to understand that it's possible.
• 17:12
  Valerie Khoo: I, I, I, I was talking to somebody at a conference and it wa this wasn't for a book, but it was for an article, and I'm an, an expert at, um, feature articles and I'm, you know, really, uh, I mentor a lot of people.
• 17:25
  Valerie Khoo: To pitch feature articles that then get published.
• 17:27
  Valerie Khoo: So I really know what I'm talking about.
• 17:29
  Valerie Khoo: So, um, this woman was talking about a particular article that she wanted to pitch to, like a high profile magazine, and she was telling me about it and it was actually a really good idea.
• 17:39
  Valerie Khoo: And I said, and she had the, the goods, you know what I mean?
• 17:43
  Valerie Khoo: I knew she'd be able to do it.
• 17:44
  Valerie Khoo: And I said, all you need to do is pitch that, but just change this.
• 17:48
  Valerie Khoo: I knew that that thing that she needed to change was.
• 17:53
  Valerie Khoo: Essential and it would get her over the line.
• 17:56
  Valerie Khoo: And it was extraordinary because she's sitting right in front of me and she said, oh, so it's not possible.
• 18:01
  Valerie Khoo: Then I said, no, no.
• 18:02
  Valerie Khoo: Did you hear what I said?
• 18:03
  Valerie Khoo: I said, this is a really great idea and you will totally get it over the line if you just change this bits this bit.
• 18:09
  Valerie Khoo: And she's like, oh yeah.
• 18:10
  Valerie Khoo: It was like.
• 18:11
  Valerie Khoo: She was deaf for something.
• 18:12
  Valerie Khoo: She wasn't deaf.
• 18:12
  Valerie Khoo: She just, she just assumed, she just wanted to believe that it was not possible.
• 18:19
  Valerie Khoo: And I was actually telling her, this is how you get there.
• 18:22
  Valerie Khoo: And she just kept saying, oh, right, yeah, it's a closed child.
• 18:25
  Valerie Khoo: It's not possible.
• 18:26
  Valerie Khoo: I'm like, I, I didn't know what to
• 18:27
  Tina Strachan: say.
• 18:28
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, that's interesting.
• 18:29
  Tina Strachan: And maybe it's be that ingrained message always of the, like you said, being a close shop.
• 18:34
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 18:34
  Tina Strachan: Or, or negative feedback means no or not, I mean, it shouldn't be negative, but, um, you know, being asked constructive and being asked to change things and, you know, I've met lots of people whose pathways to publication have involved sending it out to whoever agents or publishers, and being asked to change.
• 18:53
  Tina Strachan: Or, or have had to change because they've worked through it.
• 18:56
  Tina Strachan: Particular parts of the story.
• 18:58
  Tina Strachan: Huge parts of the story.
• 18:59
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 18:59
  Tina Strachan: Um.
• 19:00
  Tina Strachan: But, but have, but that's all part of it.
• 19:03
  Tina Strachan: You know, you people can still want your work.
• 19:06
  Tina Strachan: Um, and it may look different when you, when it actually gets published as to when you hand it in, but that's what working with people like yourself as a mentor and the publishers and their, their editors, it's all just like a massive masterclass, just learning off these people.
• 19:19
  Tina Strachan: Um, you know, they, they may have suggestions and.
• 19:22
  Tina Strachan: Often afterwards, probably most of the time you realize that because they, these are the experts giving you that advice.
• 19:29
  Tina Strachan: Uh, if you've taken on board and, uh, you make those changes or whatever you need to do, it's often better for it.
• 19:35
  Valerie Khoo: Yeah, absolutely.
• 19:36
  Valerie Khoo: And, and the thing with this lady is that it was a tiny, tiny thing.
• 19:40
  Valerie Khoo: There was no structural change.
• 19:41
  Valerie Khoo: There was no, it was just the tiny inclusion, but she just wanted to hear that it was not possible.
• 19:46
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, because it was too hard to, it was almost too big to believe that it could be.
• 19:51
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 19:51
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 19:51
  Tina Strachan: That's got, that's, that's sort of sad, isn't it?
• 19:54
  Tina Strachan: That we've just Yes.
• 19:55
  Tina Strachan: You know, so negatively, uh, ingrained in our, in our minds like that.
• 19:59
  Tina Strachan: Can I ask you a question about articles though, Valerie?
• 20:01
  Tina Strachan: Sure.
• 20:01
  Tina Strachan: You were saying, and your and expert articles.
• 20:03
  Tina Strachan: Uh.
• 20:04
  Tina Strachan: Is that a good way for people to, uh, because they're very different to writing books, obviously.
• 20:09
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 20:09
  Tina Strachan: But is that a good way for people to practice their writing skills, uh, practice trying to, uh, you know, in the publishing industry, trying to submit for the publishing industry?
• 20:20
  Tina Strachan: Is that something that people can do maybe while they're trying, if they've got a novel that they're trying to have?
• 20:24
  Tina Strachan: Published.
• 20:25
  Tina Strachan: Traditionally,
• 20:26
  Valerie Khoo: they are two extremely different skills.
• 20:28
  Valerie Khoo: Mm-hmm.
• 20:29
  Valerie Khoo: And I know a lot of, um, authors who write articles, uh, as a way of earning income while they're writing their manuscript, but one isn't gonna lead to the other necessarily.
• 20:40
  Valerie Khoo: Um, having said that, that actually did happen to me.
• 20:43
  Valerie Khoo: The publisher read my articles and then they.
• 20:45
  Valerie Khoo: Approached me, however that was for nonfiction.
• 20:48
  Valerie Khoo: So that's different.
• 20:48
  Valerie Khoo: But if you're writing fiction, that's entirely different to writing a nonfiction feature article.
• 20:52
  Valerie Khoo: Mm-hmm.
• 20:53
  Valerie Khoo: So it really only works for people who actually want to earn their income that way while they're writing the fiction, um, mouse manuscript.
• 21:01
  Valerie Khoo: Um, but they, that they are very, very different skills.
• 21:03
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 21:04
  Tina Strachan: But this is a thing with the, the a WC is that they do offer courses for fiction writing, but also there's copywriting.
• 21:10
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, for sure.
• 21:11
  Tina Strachan: Um, as well, there's all these other, um.
• 21:14
  Tina Strachan: Courses that aren't just for fiction writing or, or writing novels or picture books and things like that.
• 21:19
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 21:19
  Tina Strachan: Um, okay.
• 21:20
  Tina Strachan: So back to the A WC and the courses that they offer, uh, they really do, like I said, cover off on everything from and all in different forms too.
• 21:29
  Tina Strachan: Like they could be short and self-paced courses to year long mentoring or in-person workshops.
• 21:36
  Tina Strachan: What have you found is the most popular course that is on offer, and why do you think that is?
• 21:42
  Valerie Khoo: I think it's creative writing stage one, and I think it's because that is a introductory course for people who either, um, just wanna dip their toe in the water to see whether they like writing and it's only five weeks and then they can, it's, it's not a big time investment for them.
• 22:00
  Valerie Khoo: Uh, it's also really popular for people who, they remember how much they enjoyed writing at school and they just haven't done it since.
• 22:08
  Valerie Khoo: 'cause life takes over kids, you know, work all of that.
• 22:12
  Valerie Khoo: And now they're at a stage where, hmm, I want to rediscover whether I still like it.
• 22:17
  Valerie Khoo: And so that's a entry point for them as well.
• 22:20
  Valerie Khoo: And so this.
• 22:22
  Valerie Khoo: Introductory five week course covers a lot, but it's not a massive commitment for you.
• 22:28
  Valerie Khoo: And you'll, you'll know by the end whether you wanna take the next step or not.
• 22:33
  Valerie Khoo: Um, and you, you might just enjoy it for five weeks and have a great time, and that's the end of it.
• 22:37
  Valerie Khoo: Or you might go, oh, there's something here.
• 22:40
  Valerie Khoo: I wanna pursue it further.
• 22:41
  Valerie Khoo: So that's definitely one of our most popular courses.
• 22:45
  Tina Strachan: Mm.
• 22:46
  Tina Strachan: And is it, does that cover off on all types of creative writing?
• 22:49
  Tina Strachan: So it doesn't matter if you are someone who likes to write picture books or like romantic, it, it, does it cover off on everything for, yeah, it's,
• 22:56
  Valerie Khoo: it's at, it's at an introductory level, so it's not gonna go into the real specifics of all sorts of different genres because you're still discovering.
• 23:04
  Valerie Khoo: But having said that, you know, if you already know that you are into a particular kind of genre, like romantic or psychological thriller or whatever, it's still a brilliant entry point.
• 23:15
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 23:15
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 23:16
  Tina Strachan: And then later
• 23:16
  Valerie Khoo: on you can go into the more genre specific courses.
• 23:20
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 23:20
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 23:20
  Tina Strachan: And that's what I did actually, I did the writing children's novels course, um, which I really enjoyed.
• 23:27
  Tina Strachan: I think that wasn't that long either.
• 23:29
  Tina Strachan: I think it might've been six weeks or, or so.
• 23:31
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 23:31
  Tina Strachan: That's fun.
• 23:32
  Tina Strachan: That's five weeks.
• 23:32
  Tina Strachan: Five weeks.
• 23:33
  Tina Strachan: There you go.
• 23:34
  Tina Strachan: What I really liked about it as well was the.
• 23:36
  Tina Strachan: Group of all the other members that were doing the course or the students.
• 23:40
  Tina Strachan: Um, you share your work and you do, you can read other people's work, which, and I think that was, we provided feedback as well, which is such a good way of learning, too, providing feedback on other people's work as well.
• 23:52
  Tina Strachan: Um, and then you just get the, the views of so many other people.
• 23:55
  Tina Strachan: 'cause everybody reads things differently, don't they?
• 23:57
  Tina Strachan: Everybody has a different bit of advice.
• 23:59
  Tina Strachan: And then also having your, your teacher as.
• 24:02
  Tina Strachan: And, uh, feedback as well, which I found really helpful.
• 24:05
  Tina Strachan: Um, and then the other one, which I tell everyone about as well is the, uh, it was called your author website.
• 24:10
  Tina Strachan: Do you still have that one?
• 24:11
  Tina Strachan: Oh, yes.
• 24:12
  Tina Strachan: It was so practical.
• 24:13
  Tina Strachan: Honestly, I, I did it, uh, probably a few years ago because I need, knew I needed to do a website and I had literally no idea where to start.
• 24:22
  Tina Strachan: And I mean, everyone learns differently.
• 24:24
  Tina Strachan: And for me, I just needed to, to hear and see someone kind of explain it, um, but also explain why.
• 24:31
  Tina Strachan: You need, you should have the things and what works for an author's website.
• 24:35
  Tina Strachan: Like, can you just do one page or you know, certainly don't do 20 pages, but here's the reason why I don't do 20 pages.
• 24:41
  Tina Strachan: But it really walked it all.
• 24:42
  Tina Strachan: Then it got down to nitty gritty as in like, you know, I can't even remember what the terms are now, but you know, your host, whoever your host and, um, who can go to, to help design it and all those sorts of things.
• 24:54
  Tina Strachan: It was super practical.
• 24:56
  Tina Strachan: I really enjoyed that one.
• 24:57
  Valerie Khoo: Yeah.
• 24:58
  Valerie Khoo: I think that that's really important is that people need to leave with very clear steps in any of our courses.
• 25:04
  Valerie Khoo: It's not just theory that if you do the course properly, you will leave with very clear steps on what you need to be doing next.
• 25:10
  Valerie Khoo: Mm-hmm.
• 25:10
  Valerie Khoo: To achieve your goal.
• 25:11
  Valerie Khoo: Yeah.
• 25:11
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, yeah.
• 25:12
  Tina Strachan: No, I
• 25:12
  Valerie Khoo: certainly found that.
• 25:13
  Valerie Khoo: So that was a really
• 25:14
  Tina Strachan: helpful one.
• 25:16
  Tina Strachan: So, Valerie, can I just ask, uh, overall, it's a big question.
• 25:20
  Tina Strachan: What have you learned overall this time of being the CEO of, of the Writer's center and, um, interviewing so many authors as part of the podcast?
• 25:28
  Tina Strachan: What's, what have you learned that's sort of been the biggest takeaway for you or, or about the industry?
• 25:33
  Tina Strachan: What, what's, what's the big sort of feedback on that?
• 25:36
  Tina Strachan: This is, oh.
• 25:40
  Valerie Khoo: I have learned that the publishing industry and the world of writers in Australia, and obviously I learnt this ages ago, right.
• 25:49
  Valerie Khoo: But I guess this is useful for people who are new to this world, um, and who are just wondering who were just on the, on, on taking their first steps is that the publishing industry in Australia?
• 26:03
  Valerie Khoo: And the world of authors, uh, it's one of the nicest, nicest, nicest industries you could, they, they're full of just lovely, genuine people.
• 26:13
  Valerie Khoo: I'm not just saying that I'm involved in lots of other areas.
• 26:17
  Valerie Khoo: I'm involved in the world of art, you know, visual arts.
• 26:20
  Valerie Khoo: I'm involved in the world of business.
• 26:22
  Valerie Khoo: I'm a board director of companies, and there is nothing.
• 26:28
  Valerie Khoo: Like the writing industry in terms of lovely, lovely people.
• 26:33
  Valerie Khoo: Uh, it's so wonderful.
• 26:34
  Valerie Khoo: It's so safe, it's so nurturing, it's so friendly.
• 26:39
  Valerie Khoo: So I guess, and people who already are in it already know this, but if there are new people who are still wondering whether it's going to be competitive or, or, or, um, scary.
• 26:52
  Valerie Khoo: It's just not.
• 26:53
  Valerie Khoo: It's the nicest group of people you could possibly want.
• 26:55
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 26:56
  Tina Strachan: I agree.
• 26:56
  Tina Strachan: And we, it, I think it comes up in almost every episode about community.
• 27:00
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 27:00
  Tina Strachan: You know, and if you, um, you know, if you are even before you're published, well before you're published, or even just thinking about tipping your toe in to join those community groups.
• 27:10
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 27:10
  Tina Strachan: Because it's.
• 27:12
  Tina Strachan: It's pretty incredible.
• 27:13
  Tina Strachan: Like you said, everyone just builds each other up, don't they?
• 27:15
  Tina Strachan: Yes.
• 27:16
  Tina Strachan: There's, there's no one's bringing anyone down.
• 27:17
  Tina Strachan: Um, yeah, I've, I've definitely found that myself as well.
• 27:21
  Tina Strachan: Everyone is so lovely and you can learn so much and I think everybody's, um, drive and back to what you were saying before about surrounding yourself with.
• 27:29
  Tina Strachan: With those positive people that are saying those positive things, that helps to push you along.
• 27:34
  Tina Strachan: And, you know, um, I have a friend who's part of a writing group and for them, even if this is some more inspiration for people thinking about joining a group, is um.
• 27:44
  Tina Strachan: They had been together for a while as critique group, and then one person got published and then the next person got published and then the next person to the point where they all ended up being published at some point.
• 27:54
  Tina Strachan: Yeah.
• 27:54
  Tina Strachan: It just was like, it was a bit infectious, I think.
• 27:57
  Valerie Khoo: Yes.
• 27:57
  Tina Strachan: That's, yeah,
• 27:58
  Valerie Khoo: I love, I love seeing that happen.
• 28:00
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 28:00
  Tina Strachan: Mm-hmm.
• 28:01
  Tina Strachan: No, that's, yeah.
• 28:02
  Tina Strachan: Lots of fun as well.
• 28:04
  Tina Strachan: Uh.
• 28:04
  Tina Strachan: So Valerie, is that your top tip for, there's lots of top tips there.
• 28:08
  Tina Strachan: We always ask our, um, our guests for a top tip, but there was quite a few there.
• 28:13
  Tina Strachan: So what about believing believe in yourself or to join a community?
• 28:16
  Tina Strachan: What's your top tip for authors that are trying to get published?
• 28:20
  Tina Strachan: You don't dunno
• 28:21
  Valerie Khoo: what you don't know.
• 28:22
  Valerie Khoo: And so there are some authors who, or, or, or some people who are writing manuscripts who, um, truly believe that they can get.
• 28:34
  Valerie Khoo: The information they need from YouTube and TikTok and you know, wherever.
• 28:39
  Valerie Khoo: And you can, there is no doubt, but if you don't actually know if it's coming from somebody who.
• 28:46
  Valerie Khoo: Knows what they're talking about or if it's coming from somebody who just did it and is sharing their experience.
• 28:52
  Valerie Khoo: But it's not, and while that's certainly interesting, it's not necessarily the most efficient way to, to, to learn that writing device or to do that literary technique or whatever.
• 29:03
  Valerie Khoo: And so I think that what's really important is a, you dunno what you dunno, and therefore you need to be open to.
• 29:11
  Valerie Khoo: Constant learning, and I know some authors who are there on their sixth book or, but they're still doing courses because you, it's, it's never a waste to learn.
• 29:24
  Valerie Khoo: And you'll, you might do a course.
• 29:27
  Valerie Khoo: Or you might do whatever, learn something, and there'll just be that, that, that gem that can make the difference in, in your next character or in the way you write dialogue or in the, the, the, the order of scenes that you've written things.
• 29:44
  Valerie Khoo: And so I think that it's really important to be, um, open to new learning opportunities because it can fast track not only your learning.
• 29:56
  Valerie Khoo: Sometimes it can fast track your, um.
• 29:59
  Valerie Khoo: Road to publication and other times it can absolutely fast track, uh, your connection.
• 30:05
  Valerie Khoo: So meeting other people in the community, um, it might not create, it might not, you know, uh, create a party where you suddenly go and meet every person that you need to know to move forward.
• 30:17
  Valerie Khoo: But you'll meet people who you then connect with and then you'll follow each other online, or you'll catch up at an event or a conference or something.
• 30:26
  Valerie Khoo: And it absolutely fosters.
• 30:29
  Valerie Khoo: Those kind of connections, which I think is so important.
• 30:33
  Valerie Khoo: That's
• 30:33
  Tina Strachan: incredible advice.
• 30:34
  Tina Strachan: That's so true.
• 30:35
  Tina Strachan: Uh, especially about the connections thing.
• 30:37
  Tina Strachan: I totally agree.
• 30:38
  Tina Strachan: And it may not be, um, something that happens straight away.
• 30:42
  Tina Strachan: It could be something that happens to you down the track where those connections sort of fall into line, uh, for you.
• 30:48
  Tina Strachan: But yeah, again, it's about community and, um, yeah, just constant learning.
• 30:52
  Tina Strachan: I love that idea.
• 30:53
  Tina Strachan: That's incredible.
• 30:54
  Tina Strachan: Well, thank you Valerie Co, for being our guest.
• 30:57
  Tina Strachan: This week on the Book Deal Podcast and sharing all your incredible advice with us, I encourage every listener who hasn't yet checked out the courses at the a WC or the podcast with all its free, wonderful advice and inspiring advice.
• 31:12
  Tina Strachan: Um, there really is something.
• 31:14
  Tina Strachan: There for everyone.
• 31:15
  Tina Strachan: And the courses are offered internationally too, are they?
• 31:19
  Tina Strachan: Yeah, we have,
• 31:19
  Valerie Khoo: yeah, we have students from all over the world, you know?
• 31:22
  Valerie Khoo: Yeah, definitely.
• 31:23
  Valerie Khoo: Yeah.
• 31:23
  Valerie Khoo: I mean, the majority are in Australia, but we definitely have students from all over the world.
• 31:26
  Valerie Khoo: Yep, yep,
• 31:27
  Tina Strachan: yep.
• 31:27
  Tina Strachan: We have lots of international listeners as well, so even they can check out the website if they'd like.
• 31:31
  Tina Strachan: Thank you so much for sharing your time with us today, Valerie.
• 31:34
  Valerie Khoo: You are most welcome.
• 31:35
  Valerie Khoo: Thank you so much for having me on the show
• 31:37
  Tina Strachan: Thank you for listening to the book Deal podcast.
• 31:40
  Tina Strachan: We're able to bring you these weekly writerly chats because of our amazing patrons.
• 31:45
  Tina Strachan: Join the TPD family by becoming a member of our Patreon community@patreon.com slash the book deal podcast.
• 31:54
  Tina Strachan: And if you love the pod, please give us a rating or review.
• 31:57
  Tina Strachan: And don't forget to follow us on Instagram and Facebook.