Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Inside The OIG Interview: The Testimony Of An Unnamed MCC Lieutenant (Part 5) (5/5/26)

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Inside The OIG Interview: The Testimony Of An Unnamed MCC Lieutenant (Part 5) (5/5/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

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  Speaker 1: What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:03
  Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up
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  where we left off with the witness statement given by
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  the unnamed lieutenant from MCC to the OIG investigators. Question Okay,
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  and you said you did not have any conversations at all,
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  So you didn't have any conversations with redacted about redacted?
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  Answer no, not that I remember. Question what about with redacted?
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  Answer no, question no, but he would have been he
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  relieved redacted? Answer I can't recall. Question no. Answer nope.
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  Question and was redacted? Do you remember if you had
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  any kind of interaction with her at all on August ninth?
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  Answer no, question no, So obviously you can't remember if
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  you had any conversations about redacted. Answer no, I don't
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  remember discussing redacted. Question right, So, did you ever receive
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  any call around one point fifty or at any time
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  saying that redacted was going WAB No, So at this
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  point in time, obviously you're saying you didn't know anything
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  at that point in time. Now after the fact, what
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  do you know about redacted being removed from the MCC.
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  Answer I just know that he went to court and
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  he never came back, and that was it. Question do
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  you know any information about who was informed that he
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  wasn't coming back? Answer no question. So even after the fact,
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  you don't know. Answer no question. Do you know anything?
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  I mean, was it at all discussed, like, hey, somebody
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  dropped the ball there? Answer no question. No, there wasn't
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  even a conversation. Answer I mean, that's the thing. I
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  don't recall him going I didn't know me personally. I
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  didn't know he was going WAB and I don't think
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  a lot of the other people did either question. Did
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  anyone ever ask you about that? Answer about redacted? No question?
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  Even after answer no questions, like on August tenth, August eleventh,
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  August twelfth, did anyone come up to you and say, hey,
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  did you know redacted wasn't coming back? Answer no question.
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  And have you ever been interviewed for this matter before?
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  Answer no question. No. Did you have a conversation with
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  people like redacted or redacted or anyone regarding this matter
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  after Epstein was found? Answer what matter? Question Epstein being
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  found and not having a cell mate? Answer no question. No,
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  you never talked to anybody in the institution about that.
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  Answer about him not having a cell mate or are
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  you talking about him being found? Question no, about him
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  not having a cell mate. Answer, I mean we sent
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  to hey, what happened or like, what happened to his
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  cell mate? He got released? Okay it was he said
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  it was like that, but nothing, No, not like that.
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  Question was it any conversation of like, hey, why didn't
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  they put a new cell mate with them? Answer? No,
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  question no. So if at around one fifty he gets
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  cut off by the lieutenant, that's what I'm saying. That's
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  the time. That's why I'm looking at you saying one
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  fifty question Yeah, I mean this is where I'm getting
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  the one fifty is because it says redacted knows that
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  at least by one fifty he's going wab Should he
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  have communicated with either or redacted about that? Answer? I
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  don't know. I don't know how he communicated with Question no,
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  I'm not asking who he did. I'm asking you should
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  he have answer? I mean, I know when I was
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  OIC and they give us a call. Okay, so if
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  he didn't say nothing to the lieutenant, I could see why.
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  I mean, you're telling me on the OIC and okay,
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  I got the notification question is it abnormal that he
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  didn't pass it on though? Should have he passed it
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  on to you? Answer? It's not, it's not. I mean
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  he gets cut off by the investigator. Could have he
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  placed another inmate with someone like Epstein? Answer I'm not sure,
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  because then again it says possibly wab's get canceled. They
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  get canceled. That's why the one fifty we don't know
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  until after like, hey, who is this guy coming back?
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  R and D is open at eight nine? Question so
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  about what time would they normally make that notification that? Okay,
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  he gets cut off by the lieutenant after four? Question?
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  After four? Answer? Yeah? Question and is it some when
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  you say after four? Is it usually between four and five?
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  Answer after four? Anytime? After four? Question? So anywhere from
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  four to five, four to six, four to eight. So
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  after the four pm count answer after the four pm count. Question?
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  And why is it after the count question? Because that's
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  when the guys come back after the count, We do
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  the four o'clock count, and then you get an indiscernible
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  base count. Change is like this, you get twenty guys
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  coming back from court. This WAB got canceled. Question? So
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  as far as the four o'clock count? Or is it
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  at that point do people start saying where are these
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  guys and start making calls? Are they coming back or not?
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  Answer at four? No question. No, So when is the
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  next time that they would be listed on that count?
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  Answer the nine o'clock count. Question the ten o'clock count? Answer, oh,
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  the ten o'clock count. Yeah. Question do you want to
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  ask some more questions on that line? I'm just trying
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  to because I thought it was I felt people have
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  told at four that that's when they start making calls
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  to say is this guy coming back or not? That's
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  not your understanding? Answer? Why would you make a call
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  at four? Question? Because you've got to know if they're
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  coming back to the unit or not coming back? Answer, well,
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  the count three forty five is over, so you're in
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  the unit or not? So at four o'clock we do
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  the count. After the count, that's when the guys come
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  in from court. That's when we get the guys coming
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  back to the shoe and going back to their units.
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  Question and would you be would anybody be notified prior
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  to four that people were or were not coming back?
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  Answer not to my understanding, No question. All right, So
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  to your understanding. It's not until four or later that this,
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  you know, people would know redacted was not coming back.
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  Answer yeah, question all right, so if redacted doesn't come
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  back after four pm, who on that daily assignment roster
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  would be responsible for making notifications or determining that Epstein
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  needed a cell mate? Answer? I mean the notification is here.
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  We already have the notification. Question Yeah, I know you're
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  pointing to the email that says that he requires to
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  have a cell mat What I'm asking is, okay, four
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  on at some point after four you're saying redacted, it's
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  known that redacted is now not coming back, not possibly
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  not coming back, but he's not coming back. Who would
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  be responsible for placing for making notifications that, hey, Redacted's out,
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  Epstein does not have a cell mate. We need to
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  start making some notifications. Answer I mean, I don't know
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  there is no notification that's if he doesn't have a
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  cell mate, we give him a cell mate. Question Yeah,
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  So what I'm saying is he gets cut off by
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  the lieutenant, but the lieutenant is not saying hey, by
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  the way, you know, if they catch it, they'll say it.
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  But if they don't, he gets cut off again by
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  the investigator. And I'm not saying it's a lieutenant's responsibility.
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  What I'm asking is who's responsibility? Is it answer to say,
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  hey this guy get a m a cell mate or
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  make a notification? Question? Yeah, like who would be the
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  first one to know that redacted is no longer there?
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  Would it be the shoe? Answer? I'd say R and D. Question,
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  so R and D would be there. What's R and
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  d's responsibility at that point? Answer? Oh, hey, we've got
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  all the inmates back. It's such and such and that's it.
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  You ain't get them, then they're not coming back. They're gone.
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  Question But would R and D be responsible for saying, hey,
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  shoe redacted isn't coming back? Or would they say, hey,
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  absolute tenant redacted isn't coming back. Who would notify R
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  and D? Answer? I'm not sure. In the past, I
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  would say they call in shoe directly. Question shoe directly? Answer? Yeah?
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  Question all right, so in the shoe after four? Who
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  is working? Answer redacted, Noel and redacted? Question redacted, Noel
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  and redacted? Are they the only three? Answer? That's the
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  only three listed? Question? Okay, so one of those three
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  were likely notified? Answer I'm not sure. Question okay, And
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  if they weren't notified, at what point would they know
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  redacted isn't coming back? Answer? I'll say about eight o'clock.
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  Question and how would they be notified? Answer? Because usually
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  all the inmates are by then, you know, talking to
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  the lieutenant, Hey, is anyone else coming down there? That's
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  like a follow up call question? Is there some point
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  when they should be saying, hey, this guy left at
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  eight this morning, he's still not back. Answer? No, you said,
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  is it at some point? Yeah? Question so, and at
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  what point is that? Is it during the count or
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  is it or is there, like, you know, duties that
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  they're doing prior to the count where they've got to
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  make sure that people are there? How does that work?
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  You've worked in the shoe, so from your recollection from
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  when you worked in the shoe, how would that work,
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  especially being that mcc as a jail, not a prison
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  where people could at any time be released or moved?
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  How does that work in the shoe? Answer? I used
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  to have like that. I think set by eight o'clock.
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  Question I'm sorry, what did you say about eight? Answer?
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  By eight o'clock is when I say, hey, is anyone
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  else like coming? Up, and this is the base count,
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  like I want to get everything straight in the computer,
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  I'll say eight o'clock. Question and on that date, when
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  those three people were working, who would typically be responsible
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  for doing something like that? Is it like shoe one,
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  shoe two two three? Or is it just anybody any
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  one of them? Or how does it work? Answer to
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  do what? Question to say, like, Hey, we've got to
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  make sure our base count is correct? Answer? I mean
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  it could be any one of them. Question any one
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  of them? Answer? Yeah, question, but it's not like someone's job.
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  It's just someone should take the role. Answer I mean,
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  but they've got to have the base count right for
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  the ten o'clock count. Question So one of those people
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  should have got the base count right. But it's not
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  one specific person's duty. Or is it something that they're
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  supposed to collaborate on altogether? Answer? I mean it depends.
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  It depends if you're working, Hey, such and such indiscernible.
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  If you're number two, you know you go to the board.
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  You could change it yourself. You know the OIC all right,
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  you know, making sure everything is in order? Question Was
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  there an OIC on that night? Answer? Yes? Question who
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  answer redacted? Question so redacted was the oic. Answer yeah, question,
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  so technically he's probably the one who should have been
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  responsible to catch the fact that their base count changed
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  and he wasn't coming back. Answer I'm not sure about
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  that because he was non custody. I'm not sure. Question Okay, answer,
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  because you see, he's non custody. Mine was non custody.
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  He's just up there for overtime. So I'm not sure.
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  Question Okay, Now, as far as the lieutenant's job, so
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  at that point in time, it was redacted that was
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  the ops and redacted that was the activities. What's their
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  role in ensuring that redacted is one back and two
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  Epstein is placed with a new cell mate. Answer? Yeah,
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  Question do they have any role or is it all
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  on the shoe? Answer? I mean it's they don't have
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  a role. You know, he gets cut off by the investigator.
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  What about when you're conducting the rounds as part of
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  their responsibility to say, to check that kind of stuff
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  or is it just to see what inmates are there
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  and that the inmates that are there are Okay? Answer
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  pretty much, you've got to do a round. Question does
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  that round intel verifying that Epstein has a cell mate
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  and redacted isn't there? Answer? I'm not sure about that.
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  We just know we do our rounds. Question So that
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  goes back to what does a round intel? Does that
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  mean that you need to verify that the people that
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  are on the books are there and other people are removed? Answer? Yeah,
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  with staff and accountability for the most part, you know
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  inmates banging. Hey, all right, I'll be up doing my round.
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  I'll deal with this when I get up there. Question
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  But when you say for accountability, what does that entail? Answer?
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  Presence of inmates? Depending on who goes up there, they know, okay,
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  this is on. They try certain things, they won't try
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  certain things. Question are you comparing a list of the
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  inmates that you know to be in the shoe with
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  who's actually in the shoe? Answer? No, not for a round?
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  No question no, all right. So as far as the
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  round conducted by a lieutenant would they know? Would they
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  be able to figure out that redacted was removed? Answer?
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  Depending on what time the round was? Question and can
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  you give me more explanation? What time would that change? Answer?
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  If I do an early round and Epstein's in a
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  cell by himself, okay, I still have time. Still doing
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  core movements and it wouldn't raise no suspicion or no alarm.
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  Question Okay, so about what time would there be a
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  suspicion or an alarm that would be raised? Answer? I
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  told you at about eight. Question eight? Answer, yeah, question
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  because redacted hasn't been back. Answer yeah, all right, folks,
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  We're gonna wrap up right here, and in the next
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  episode dealing with the topic, we're gonna pick up where
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  we left off. All the information that goes with this
• 14:12
  episode can be found in the description box.