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Transcript

Your Body is Reading the Book Too · Romancing the Threshold

• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Romancing the Threshold.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Vanessa Couto.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Today's guest is Alain Massetti,
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: a somatic experiencing practitioner,
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: a fellow Brazilian,
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: and someone whose work I know from the inside.
• 0:40
  Alain was my somatic provider back in 2020 and 2021 during a
• 0:46
  chapter of real healing for me.
• 0:48
  So reconnecting with him for this conversation felt like the
• 0:52
  right kind of full circle.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Now, here's what's a little different about today's episode.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: The day before we recorded,
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_00: Alana and I did a private session,
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: me as the reader,
• 1:04
  bringing a scene from a sci-fi romance novel that I read a
• 1:08
  little over a month ago.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that novel had a sexual assault scene that had taken me by surprise.
• 1:16
  And in working with him,
• 1:18
  I found that a month later,
• 1:20
  the activation was still living in my body.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: So we worked with it.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: And what came up there became the doorway into this conversation.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Now,
• 1:32
  what I've noticed in romance novels is that there's a lot of
• 1:35
  focus on the body,
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: on the body of the hero,
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: on the five senses and how they experience each other.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: But what we don't talk about is the body of the reader.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's the third character.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's where the medicine actually lands.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: So let's get into it.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: How are you doing, my love?
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing well today.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for asking.
• 2:03
  Okay,
• 2:05
  so we were talking before I started recording,
• 2:11
  just to get us warmed up and...
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: We were talking about,
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: there's a lot of things we want to talk about today,
• 2:19
  but the thing that's standing out for me right now is the idea
• 2:26
  of naming what we're
• 2:27
  feeling and how to connect that to the body because we're so
• 2:34
  disconnected from the
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: body.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Also for the listener,
• 2:39
  This is a continuation of a process that we started yesterday
• 2:43
  with doing the
• 2:45
  somatic experiencing practice on me as a reader navigating the
• 2:53
  reactions I had of a
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: certain book.
• 2:56
  that I read and especially a certain scene and the feelings
• 3:02
  that came out of that
• 3:05
  sort of experience of noticing what I was feeling in my body
• 3:09
  when speaking to that
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: scene.
• 3:12
  And we arrived at this point of how important it is to name
• 3:18
  what we're feeling.
• 3:20
  Just to give you all a little backup in the reflection of the
• 3:25
  scene I was going
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: through experiencing.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: At first, I experienced a lot of grief and then anger arrived.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so we were just doing a little check in before I hit record that how,
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: how did the rest of my day go?
• 3:41
  and what was my reflection or experience of anger after that
• 3:47
  exploration we did.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of the beginning, the entry point.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: So now on to you.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think about this, especially the naming and anger?
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: Would you like to talk a little bit about the scene that or
• 4:09
  Do you want to talk a little about that a little later on in
• 4:12
  the conversation?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good point.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: OK,
• 4:15
  I'll give I don't want to name the book as much because I know
• 4:19
  there are a lot of
• 4:19
  people who are fans of the book and I don't want to disrespect
• 4:23
  the author and the
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: work they've done.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: I know that in the latest edition they have didn't take away the scene,
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: but they have minimized it.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I was reading the old version, so I was I got the full full effect.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: But it was a book about a sci fi romance.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the characters,
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: not a major,
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: not the main character,
• 4:49
  one of the side characters gets gets raped in the very
• 4:53
  beginning of the book.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a kind of a shock because I wasn't expecting it.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: My reaction to watching it, to reading it, it was a bit like
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Couldn't stop myself.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't feel like I could close the book and stop and just be like,
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not reading this,
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: but I went through it.
• 5:13
  And I finished the book,
• 5:15
  but it was it kind of left me with a bad taste in my mouth.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it kind of ruined the rest of the experience of the book.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: And and so when we were talking about doing this podcast episode,
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: that was the entry point when I said,
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
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  SPEAKER_00: I had this experience reading this book.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when the idea.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Bringing somatic experiencing as a reader,
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_00: as a romance reader,
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: I thought it was a great way to explore the body of the reader,
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: not just the body of the characters.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: So that was the bigger introduction, I guess.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: That's very, I'm very glad we actually did this session yesterday.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so you could experience in your body
• 6:07
  how to deal with that level of activation that showed up when
• 6:15
  you were and
• 6:16
  yesterday you didn't read yesterday you read this book only how
• 6:21
  long ago like I
• 6:23
  think a month ago a month ago and it's so interesting to see
• 6:27
  that that activation
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: was still showing up in your physiology so that's another um
• 6:37
  Think for us to notice how we are touched by things that we
• 6:44
  read,
• 6:44
  by things that we see.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes we don't realize that we are being touched by that.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: We feel something different,
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: but,
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: the kind of fast speed in our daily lives,
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: we don't stop to really
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Open the space to name what you are feeling.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: But it's there.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: That feeling is still there.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: And as we, you know, as you read something, oh, okay, something came up.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then stop.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: And just notice what came up.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, what am I feeling right now?
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, because when you read something that
• 7:35
  it has a lot of details like what you read about rape about a
• 7:40
  you know about a
• 7:42
  sexual trauma it's very difficult because we live in a society
• 7:49
  nowadays that sexual
• 7:52
  trauma when you read about the statistics how many people were
• 7:57
  sexually abused in
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: their
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: infancy,
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: in their child,
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: when they were a child,
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: when they were a teenager,
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: and even in the adult life,
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: it's a huge amount of people reading.
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  SPEAKER_01: The percentage of people reading that,
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: I imagine,
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder how these women felt after reading that.
• 8:23
  Because you experience that level of arousal,
• 8:27
  not experiencing that in your life.
• 8:31
  right so I wonder the women that they were sexually abused when
• 8:36
  they read that how
• 8:37
  did they feel when and and most important how did they regulate
• 8:42
  themselves after
• 8:45
  reading something that really activates you how do you navigate
• 8:50
  in that yeah and
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: granted I I mean I feel like I've I've started with a very uh
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: If you to use the word traumatic example of all the books I read,
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: that was the one that shocked me right from the get go.
• 9:09
  And I know,
• 9:09
  like,
• 9:10
  since then,
• 9:10
  the author had a lot of feedback and changed some things.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, there and then you brought the word arousal and
• 9:22
  I think in large part,
• 9:24
  we tend to think arousal is one thing has to do with sexual
• 9:28
  desire.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's one thing.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: But from what I'm understanding is saying our bodies,
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: we can be aroused by other things,
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  SPEAKER_00: not just the pleasure of a sexual encounter,
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  SPEAKER_00: let's say.
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  SPEAKER_00: And I think when we're reading, sometimes we might forget
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: When we speak of books,
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: let's say,
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: when we speak of reading,
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  SPEAKER_00: we might forget the body of the reader,
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: us as the reader.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, does that make sense?
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  SPEAKER_01: What is arousal, right?
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  SPEAKER_01: What do we understand about arousal?
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  SPEAKER_01: Arousal,
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  SPEAKER_01: in my understanding from everything that I read,
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: from everything I learned,
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  SPEAKER_01: it's a nervous system activation.
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  SPEAKER_01: And it's a normal nervous system activation.
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  We need the activation actually to live our life,
• 10:29
  to wake up,
• 10:30
  to work,
• 10:31
  to do our things.
• 10:36
  But the problem is when that arousal,
• 10:41
  because arousal is also your system identifies something.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: In that instance, it can be danger, for example, right?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: So you are reading a scene of sexual abuse, rape.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's not happening with you.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's happening with the other person,
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  SPEAKER_01: but your body doesn't really kind of,
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: reading that,
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: that is going to happen.
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  SPEAKER_01: So that starts to bubble up in your body.
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  SPEAKER_01: the activation.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: And what is that activation?
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  SPEAKER_01: What is that activation coming from?
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  SPEAKER_01: How did your body start that activation?
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  SPEAKER_01: What are the reactions?
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  It's like a cascade event of reactions that your body releases
• 11:43
  to help you actually
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: overcome that
• 11:48
  supposedly dangerous situation right but what do you do when
• 11:57
  you realize that
• 11:59
  stress charge is growing in your body some people they don't do
• 12:04
  anything because
• 12:04
  they first of all they are so disconnected from their bodies
• 12:08
  that they have no idea
• 12:10
  or they think oh that's just normal I'm just stressed or this
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  is just something
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  SPEAKER_01: that I'm used to
• 12:18
  but no let's you know let's stop and let's notice what's
• 12:27
  showing up but that's a
• 12:30
  training it requires a training that's an ability training to
• 12:35
  start noticing how
• 12:36
  you feel because we are not taught to notice that we are taught
• 12:40
  how to think but we
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: are not taught how to feel what we feel
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  SPEAKER_01: And in that case,
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: when your body's getting ready to fight,
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: to flee or to freeze,
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: how do you navigate that?
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: When you are reading,
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: for example,
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: when you are in your home,
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  SPEAKER_01: how do you tell your body that,
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: nothing is happening with me?
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's in the story.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's in the story, exactly.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's in the story.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: So many ideas I'm thinking here.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: So many thoughts.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: So.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm hearing that, you know, arousal, it just an access and activation.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: So whatever we're watching or reading or an audio book,
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: not just what we are actually experiencing,
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: like being involved with.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's a different kind of encounter, right?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's not you in the action,
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: but you are vicariously living the action through the character,
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: right?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: You're this
• 13:51
  It's a different sort of encounter because it's not quote
• 13:55
  unquote real in your home.
• 13:58
  But your mind,
• 14:00
  your body is like,
• 14:02
  I didn't know it was not happening as far as I'm concerned.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: It is happening or it's about to happen.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: And how do we notice in our physiology,
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: in our body,
• 14:13
  the telltale signs perhaps of how we are becoming aroused by
• 14:19
  what we're reading and
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: taking in.
• 14:23
  How that that combination between the body and the mind and in
• 14:28
  the imagination,
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: the ability to perhaps in your mind's eye see the scene.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: For some people, they're very visual.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: They can see others are feeling more in their body.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: So how do we as readers at that point perhaps step aside and be like,
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: OK,
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: how how me,
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Vanessa,
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: as the reader?
• 14:53
  Reading this can now engage with it or tell tell my system that
• 15:02
  is like,
• 15:02
  no,
• 15:02
  no,
• 15:02
  no.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Calm down.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's OK.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's not happening to you.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: You're not you don't need to arm up, you know.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's an excellent question, because we have to access
• 15:20
  So we have to use our mind to access the body It's where the
• 15:26
  activation is So the
• 15:27
  activation is not really in the mind The activation is in the
• 15:32
  body So you have to
• 15:33
  access the body through our mind And to create this space And
• 15:41
  to name what you are
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: feeling How do I name what I am feeling right now?
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Oh,
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: so I just noticed now that I'm feeling like this sensation,
• 15:57
  it's like a bubbly sensation coming up in my stomach and it's
• 16:05
  coming up through my
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: throat,
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: that sensation,
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: that bubbly sensation.
• 16:10
  When you feel that sensation,
• 16:14
  what else happens as you allow yourself to feel that?
• 16:19
  And so you connect with the body as you have the intention to
• 16:25
  open this space to
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: feel what it's showing up.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: So that's a beginning.
• 16:33
  So it's kind of stretching the speed of the mind because we
• 16:38
  cannot give the
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: command,
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: okay,
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: body,
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: calm down right now.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: I want you to calm down.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm commanding you to calm down right now.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's not happening.
• 16:48
  It doesn't happen If it was their way Oh my goodness It would
• 16:53
  be so much easier For
• 16:55
  all of us The mind could just be like Body You know Take a
• 17:00
  chill pill Exactly Take
• 17:03
  a chill pill And that's it No We have to stretch That time And
• 17:10
  to really stop And
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: to really pay attention And sometimes It's something very easy
• 17:18
  to do sometimes is just to stop so just like let's do what do
• 17:23
  you think we do like
• 17:24
  a little exercise right now just to notice how you feel just to
• 17:31
  like this quick I
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: would say this quick exercise to know your support okay
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Let's do that.
• 17:43
  I'm going to invite all the listeners as well just to notice as
• 17:49
  you follow my voice
• 17:53
  to notice your feet on the floor right now feeling that your
• 17:59
  feet are being
• 18:00
  supported by the floor and as you notice your feet being
• 18:06
  supported by the floor
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: notice your knees are
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: your thighs,
• 18:13
  and your hips now being supported by the chair or by the couch
• 18:20
  where you are
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: sitting on.
• 18:21
  And as you notice the support of your hips,
• 18:26
  notice the support your back is receiving right now.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: Allow your body to rest in this support.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: And notice
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_01: What happens next as you allow yourself to feel support?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: I could feel a little sort of,
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: if you will,
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: activation in the stomach,
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_00: like a little sort of bubbly burp,
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: not a full on burp.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: But and I know from working with you that that's a release.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, in a sense of feeling, at least for me right now, that
• 19:09
  My body feels kind of,
• 19:13
  if you will,
• 19:13
  put together like it's all it's not disconnected.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: Parts of it are not disconnected from each other.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: I don't feel as relaxed as I felt yesterday.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel sort of.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: really connected.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: The body parts are all connected and kind of working together.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't I feel like the feet are connected to the legs and and it's all.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Present.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's exactly what we want.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: We don't want you to relax right now because we are recording this.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: We need your we need your activation.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right now.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: So
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: The feeling of presence, it brings the sense of safety to the body.
• 20:07
  So the whole purpose of connecting with the feeling of being
• 20:13
  supported is to send
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: the message to the body.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: So if I am being supported right now, I am safe.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: I am no longer in danger.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that can only be experienced by the felt sense experience.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: So for an example,
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_00: when I read that scene about a month ago,
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: I remember it was just before going to sleep,
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: so not the best time to read that.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: But in that moment,
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: if I've had this awareness,
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: this knowledge,
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: I would have like perhaps stopped and
• 20:57
  kind of done this check in exercise run this sense of being
• 21:01
  present with my body
• 21:04
  going through the parts of the body as to say okay I'm here
• 21:08
  we're present yeah is
• 21:11
  that the idea yeah yeah is the idea and and as you for example
• 21:17
  as you do your inner
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: work as you
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: Go deeper in your somatic work,
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: you realize that,
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: okay,
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: so I'm actually,
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm being activated now.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: So what do I do?
• 21:31
  Because the point is to start to understand and to learn how to
• 21:39
  deal with your
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: activation because activation is normal.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: Our body will activate, you know, by the...
• 21:47
  it will not activate if you are dead that's the only time
• 21:52
  that's the only time when
• 21:54
  your body will stop being activated so how you learn that for
• 21:59
  example that's a
• 22:01
  scene that a lot of people will experience a huge activation
• 22:07
  and with an activation
• 22:09
  like that it needs a way to be discharged so what do you do
• 22:14
  when you have that
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: activation or how do you
• 22:16
  Connect with your body to so far if you are laying down in bed
• 22:20
  and reading that
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_01: book,
• 22:21
  you get up because it's a stress charge to help your body fight
• 22:27
  or flight.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to kind of spend that energy.
• 22:34
  So let's say you have a credit of energy that needs to be spent
• 22:39
  in order for your
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: body to experience a downregulation.
• 22:45
  so you can go you can get up you can go to the kitchen you know
• 22:51
  you can walk a
• 22:52
  little bit around but the point is having a conscious walk like
• 22:59
  a conscious
• 23:00
  movement connecting with that energy and allowing your body to
• 23:06
  do that movement and
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: as you do that the energy tends to
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: be released and your body tends to downregulate.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then from that point of downregulation,
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: you can go back to bed and feel a little bit more,
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: relaxed and prepare your body to go to sleep.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: Now,
• 23:31
  I'm wondering here because a couple of things when we did the
• 23:35
  session yesterday
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: and,
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: a month later and I'm still activated.
• 23:42
  What we kind of met up with is the sense of a kind of a frozen
• 23:48
  chest and it was
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: grief and needed to expand into anger.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing I'm also thinking is that when we read,
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: and that was one scene,
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: so there's a whole story still,
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: and depending on what we're reading,
• 24:11
  we're going on this sort of roller coaster ride of being being
• 24:16
  activated I don't
• 24:17
  know if this is the correct term to up and then I need to be
• 24:20
  down regulated
• 24:22
  sometimes you're in a pleasant scene if you will that can
• 24:26
  arouse you in another way
• 24:27
  that's more pleasurable or more relaxing and then you go up and
• 24:32
  and so when you're
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: in a
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: Especially when you're reading a pretty intense story.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot going on.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's not cozy.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: You are carrying a lot of charge.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_00: if you read a 500 page book with a lot going on,
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: you are carrying a whole lot up,
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: down.
• 24:55
  And perhaps the most people have done as readers or stopped
• 24:59
  reading at that moment
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: or change whatever they were reading to a different book or
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: They were they going through it very quickly.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they're just taking it all in.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so I don't have a clear question here,
• 25:18
  but I'm just reflecting on that experience I had yesterday of
• 25:23
  feeling like,
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: wow,
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: this grief and anger that got activated from that scene,
• 25:27
  but also just thinking of other books I've read and the wild
• 25:31
  ride of that I was
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: going through.
• 25:36
  And I guess I understand why some book talk folks will say,
• 25:39
  oh,
• 25:39
  this book wrecked me.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: And now I'm like, I think it's it.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: You touched on something that I really like to talk about.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_01: Two things, actually.
• 25:54
  The first one you mentioned was about also the pleasurable
• 25:57
  sensations we feel
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: throughout some scenes.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: And also that's something that we...
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: I would say we could stretch a little bit that also pleasurable.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: So when you are reading something,
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: you are starting to feel,
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: that pleasant excitement or pleasant joy.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_01: How do you know you are joyful?
• 26:23
  What are the sensations your body is experiencing right now
• 26:29
  that tells you you are joyful?
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good question.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: How do we know?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because we often dismiss joy.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because I really like to do this,
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 26:45
  with people I work with this training of recognizing the
• 26:48
  sensations associated with
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: the feeling,
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: the emotion,
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: because sometimes you can catch it.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's easier to name what you are feeling.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, so
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, when I feel joy, I feel my chest open up.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: I feel my face, the muscles in my face engaging in my smile.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: So even though sometimes I'm interacting with someone,
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: for example,
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm interacting with you right now and just your face automatically,
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: kind of does the movement of smiling.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: So it means, okay, so if I stop, I feel joy now.
• 27:31
  So sometimes our body does something before we have the
• 27:35
  information about what we
• 27:38
  are really feeling So that's why I really like to connect with
• 27:44
  the sensation that
• 27:45
  you are experiencing and name it So sometimes you catch before
• 27:51
  And the other thing
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: is when you are also reading something,
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: it can trigger you for sure It can trigger you in things sometimes
• 28:01
  it triggered something that was you know in that layer beneath
• 28:10
  and then you read
• 28:11
  something that layer get tickled the body tickles that layer on
• 28:16
  that activation and
• 28:17
  then in your case grief showed up and grief is it's I love to
• 28:29
  work with grief
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: because there are so many layers there
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: And also a lot of different layers of emotions like,
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: sadness and anger Both of them are like,
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: how do you say when you say trança?
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: Oh,
• 28:46
  intertwined Intertwined And sometimes people experience like
• 28:51
  when you lose someone
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: You experience a lot of sadness and a lot of anger
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: But sometimes when you don't have the space and time to feel that,
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: you suppress everything,
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: so everything is attached together.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: Everything gets coupled.
• 29:10
  I feel like the hand movement you just made,
• 29:12
  it makes me think that it gets compressed.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: Compressed.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's why sadness and anger will often be intertwined,
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: because it's like pressure down.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Pressure down and then you feel that pressure in your chest like you felt
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: yesterday,
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: that pressure,
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: that pressure.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Then when you open this space, okay, let's feel your feet on the floor.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: I am here with you and notice that pressure.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Once you start to notice and to open this space to feel the pressure,
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: you realize,
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: that's grief.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I had to sit with it.
• 29:54
  I had to wait because I remember feeling the discomfort of that
• 29:59
  pressure and I had
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: to just sit with it.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then it expanded.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then the anger came in a very different way.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like the body was activated.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't tight.
• 30:13
  And then we want to welcome this anger that comes up because
• 30:19
  the anger was being suppressed.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_01: And when we suppress things, emotions, feelings, we get depressed.
• 30:32
  It doesn't matter which one,
• 30:34
  it was repressed,
• 30:36
  but we get depressed as we suppress things.
• 30:39
  So that's why when the anger,
• 30:43
  I love to welcome,
• 30:45
  the anger is welcome here.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: Let's dance with your anger now.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: Because our anger...
• 30:53
  there's healthy aggression that comes with the anger as well
• 30:59
  and the healthy
• 31:00
  aggression is what is going to move you to do things in life
• 31:06
  and to protect
• 31:08
  yourself and to defend yourself if your anger and your healthy
• 31:12
  aggression is
• 31:13
  suppressed and if you're someone that hurt throughout your
• 31:16
  whole life anger is bad
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: you cannot feel anger this is bad this is not
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: God's work,
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: this is devil's work,
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: the religious belief or the,
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: the whole thing about,
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: anger is bad.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: No, we don't want that.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because anger,
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: if you like get that instance,
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: like someone is sexually abused,
• 31:42
  that anger is there suppressed because that anger could not be
• 31:47
  expressed at the
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: time.
• 31:50
  so what do you do when you why people tell sexual abuse women
• 31:56
  you cannot feel angry
• 32:00
  and that's the re-traumatization because you are not allowing
• 32:06
  that person to feel
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: again so we don't want that we want the anger to be the
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:46
  I'm thinking here a couple of things you said,
• 32:49
  I think before we started recording to that.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: The feelings that rise through the body,
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: through the sensations,
• 32:59
  the experience at least I've had of working with you on this
• 33:03
  was that we have to
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: sit with the recognition.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: We have to sit.
• 33:11
  and witness it come and allow it to come and not try to flip
• 33:16
  the page or turn the,
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: the chapter,
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: the chapter.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: We have to be with it and see how it will unfurl.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 33:28
  Because in that moment yesterday when we were sitting and I was
• 33:31
  feeling that
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: pressure in my chest,
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: I could hear my mind being like,
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: get out of here,
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: like,
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: go do something else.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: But I had to sit with it for it to come and.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things I remember you saying is,
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: of course,
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: anger is one of the emotions that is the least one to be recognized,
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: because you just said the tendency for our culture is to say,
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: don't be angry.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's bad.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's against proper behavior.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's not the way of God, depending on the religious element.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm also thinking about
• 34:10
  As a reader and thinking about the I'm thinking about the body
• 34:14
  in two from coming
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: from two directions,
• 34:16
  the body of the character in which in these books a lot is
• 34:22
  described about how they
• 34:25
  feel and how they're feeling in their body and how they're
• 34:28
  their whole internal
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: dialogue.
• 34:32
  And one of the things I've noticed in these stories in general
• 34:35
  is that the body
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: is it is a character.
• 34:39
  You know,
• 34:40
  all of a sudden the characters are saying,
• 34:43
  oh,
• 34:43
  they smell like this.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: They taste like this.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: They feel this way.
• 34:47
  And this is also in this sense of your senses are emphasized
• 34:53
  and you as the reader
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: kind of vicariously living through that.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: But as you.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_00: Speaking of activation, I think the body of the reader is the
• 35:05
  unspoken other element here,
• 35:08
  because often reading is a very solitary individual activity.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's you with the book.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: You may talk about the books with your friends or a book club,
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_00: but it's you in that moment,
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: like I was with that chapter by myself.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: What I'm hearing you say,
• 35:26
  and I think this was the inspiration to bring the somatic
• 35:30
  experience into this
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_00: conversation is
• 35:33
  that the body of the readers is very key because I'm sensing
• 35:40
  that that is how the
• 35:41
  transformation of the story is being not just affecting our
• 35:48
  imagination kind of
• 35:50
  like a rehearsal possibilities which is another thing I think
• 35:55
  about stories help us
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: rehearse situations but it's the metabolizing the digesting of
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: of a story going through us.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess my question to you here is,
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: what do you think about,
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: from a somatic experience,
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: the idea of consuming digestion slash metabolizing as a reader?
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's an incredible question because our mind...
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: Our brain has a different time of processing than our body, right?
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_01: We process, our thinking process is so fast.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: How many ideas we have, right?
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: How many thoughts cross our mind every second, every minute, every hour?
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: So our mind is constantly thinking.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 37:02
  It's exhausting It is How do you I mean I don't know if You or
• 37:12
  you know our
• 37:13
  listeners Had that mental Exhaustion that you You're kind of in
• 37:19
  that state I had
• 37:20
  that when I was in college And I had like a statistics Three
• 37:26
  And I came out like
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: Literally like a zombie And
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: out of the room and I couldn't think about anything else.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: I just couldn't think.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: My brain was literally fried.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: So that's when we think too much.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_01: We fried our, you know, we can fry an egg on the brain.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 37:50
  So how do we,
• 37:52
  you know,
• 37:53
  and the body in the opposite when we eat something?
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: How long does it take for the body to digest what we ate, right?
• 38:07
  Fish has a different time from chicken and chicken has a
• 38:10
  different time from red
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_01: meat and vegetable has a different time from fruit.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: Every type of food we eat,
• 38:17
  the body processes in a different way and in its own time that
• 38:24
  it's able to process
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: that type of food.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: So,
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: in situations that we went through in life,
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: especially challenging situations,
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: traumatic situations,
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: why trauma is trauma?
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because the body didn't have time to digest what you experience.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's why we get traumatized, because the speed that the
• 38:57
  Event Happened Was Faster Than The Speed We Allowed Our Body To
• 39:04
  Process That
• 39:05
  Situation Our Mind Think Let's Get Over It Let's Keep Going And
• 39:11
  The Body Says I'm
• 39:13
  Not Ready To Keep Going I Don't Want To Overrun I Want To Feel
• 39:18
  But What We Do I
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: Don't Want To Feel Feel
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's just not in the books for me.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: Literally.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then you keep going, just thinking.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: And all that is inside you,
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: is inside your body,
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: just there,
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: just waiting to be recognized and just waiting for you to feel.
• 39:47
  That's the,
• 39:48
  in my opinion,
• 39:49
  the big change in society right now is the transition to
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: from thinking to feeling how we are going to feel what we think.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: How do we feel what we think?
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: How all of that affects our body.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm thinking about the image of literal digestion.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's true.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: You can eat a meal if you're a fast eater.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: You eat it in 15 minutes and your body might take hours.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not considering how the body is feeling,
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: if it's well,
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: if it's sick,
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: if it's not hydrated or it is.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: and how much it's going to take if you're not stressed,
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: how much is it going to take to digest all that,
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: to metabolize,
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: to really actually take the nutrients out.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: And all the organs involved in that,
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: in that digesting,
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_01: that metabolization,
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: how many elements are involved in that?
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: And we, when we go through a traumatic situation,
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: We are alone sometimes.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: Most of the times we get traumatized because we are alone.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: We don't want to expose our fragility to other people.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: We don't want to talk about what we are feeling to other people.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: But that's a mistake.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's actually when you need the whole family,
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: the whole,
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: your friends,
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: everyone together to help you.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: for you to not be alone in what you are feeling.
• 41:30
  That's also something that we make a mistake of being alone
• 41:37
  with what we feel.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_01: We are not beings.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: We are not made to be alone.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: We are made to have friends, to have family, to be with people.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking here when I did my counseling training,
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: especially,
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: that's when I really realized the power of witnessing
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: Without trying to fix it because that's a people confuse this a lot.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's very different ballgame.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just witnessing.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just here.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: My presence is here.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not trying to fix your problem.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not trying to get you out of it.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: You're not broken.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm witnessing your digestion here as it's happening.
• 42:18
  And I'm thinking also in what I see the power of these stories
• 42:23
  is the recognition.
• 42:25
  There's the element of being seen,
• 42:27
  which underneath that is the witnessing.
• 42:31
  So I think that's why for some,
• 42:33
  I do think romance as a genre has a lot of that.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: Despite its problematics, like in anything that's human made.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that's the key element that I see.
• 42:45
  But now I'm wondering here about a lot of people feel a deep
• 42:52
  connection through
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: characters,
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: something about that character,
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: what they're going through.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: feels like a recognition to the person going through whatever.
• 43:03
  So they may read books or stories that one way or another speak
• 43:09
  to what they've
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: gone through or they're going through.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: Usually challenges.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's an interesting connection to an imaginary character.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: But in your mind itself,
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: And we're starting to see that's also in your body.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: That link with the character or characters becomes quite alive.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: And how do we then bring in the body?
• 43:44
  you know into this dialogue because what I'm noticing is that
• 43:50
  in general we can
• 43:51
  speak to like oh that's my book boyfriend I love this character
• 43:55
  was a great
• 43:55
  inspiration I live that character I'm you know but I feel like
• 44:01
  we need to go to a
• 44:02
  different level now as well to make perhaps the the alchemy
• 44:09
  really activated does
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: that make sense
• 44:12
  yeah like how you are how are you touched by what you read how
• 44:18
  that deeply touched
• 44:20
  you and what do you do that how do you how for example to
• 44:26
  sometimes to recognize
• 44:28
  that we need help we cannot do everything by ourselves we are
• 44:35
  mammals we need to be
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_01: like you said witnessed without
• 44:42
  being forced to change just to have that loving presence that
• 44:49
  you feel that person
• 44:51
  is holding space for you to process and that person is really
• 44:58
  there with you like
• 44:59
  you feel the whole room is filled with that supportive energy
• 45:07
  and that supportive
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: energy that is going to help your body
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: to come out of that situation.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes that's an opportunity for us to work on ourselves as well.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I love so much that character.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: What from his story that is touching my story?
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: Where his story met my story?
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: And where should I work on myself?
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, this really touched me.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: Let me bring that to my, you know, to my practitioner.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: Let's work together to see what can emerge from there.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 45:54
  because what I'm seeing is the fictional character that now
• 45:59
  lives rent free in our
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: minds,
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: if you will.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_00: It is the beginning.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: It is we we have to go beyond the the love and
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: admiration we have for the character,
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: if you will,
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: or attraction and use that character as a catalyst to now,
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: how do we bring that into the physicality of our lives in some capacity,
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: in some way?
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: Because I'm thinking here,
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: unfortunately for a lot of people,
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: the sense of being held and witnessed and recognized,
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: that sense of community and belonging isn't readily available.
• 46:42
  They may not have the finances to have healers and therapists
• 46:49
  to work with.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: They may not have the family structure.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: So the book is the so-called scape.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: And
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think in our conversation,
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm seeing that there,
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: of course,
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: there are the limitations to that we need.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: How do we bring that into our reality of this physical reality we have,
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: not just the imaginal reality?
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 47:18
  I didn't have a question there,
• 47:20
  but it's just a reflection on the limitations of the medium,
• 47:26
  if
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yes,
• 47:28
  that's a point where it's very sad when the person doesn't
• 47:36
  experience that level of
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: community and that level of support and it's highly stressful.
• 47:46
  It's even more stressful when you don't have a community,
• 47:50
  when you don't have people to lean on.
• 47:57
  it's even harder than that when you are alone and my message is
• 48:04
  to find something
• 48:05
  to not be alone do something try to figure out something to not
• 48:12
  be alone how can
• 48:14
  you like a friend from work someone that you feel connected
• 48:19
  like it can not only be
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: a person can be an animal something nature is you know spirituality
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: Some people lean in their guides and God and really the invisible.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: Help from the invisible realm.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: Because what I'm...
• 48:40
  I guess what I'm seeing from this experience I'm having from
• 48:43
  reading a lot of books
• 48:46
  is and kind of diving into reading romance is that at some
• 48:50
  point I started feeling
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: alone and I wanted to talk to people about the stories because,
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: I have my friends.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: Thankfully, I have my friends and my husband.
• 49:00
  But as I jokingly say,
• 49:01
  my husband is my book club or one,
• 49:03
  but he's not reading the book.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: So in a way he can engage in that level.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: And
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then I,
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: ended up like,
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: OK,
• 49:12
  I want to join a local bookstore book club because I figured I
• 49:16
  want to meet other
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_00: people who are also reading.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it's great.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: There's a sense of that.
• 49:23
  It's starting to really feel like there's a sense of community
• 49:26
  and kind of belonging.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that's important.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: But my therapist self can't help herself.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I've noticed that in our society,
• 49:36
  it's easier to talk about the plot to be in the in the details
• 49:40
  of the story.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's a little harder to go level two of how does that make me feel?
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: Why did that character activate me?
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: And if you can even go a little deeper,
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: you can be like,
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_00: why did that scene really triggered me like the scene from the book?
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: And how then do we help each other navigate those elements?
• 50:07
  Because we might not feel completely safe within the group to
• 50:11
  open up like that,
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_00: depending on where we are with life.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then the third level I think about,
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: which I think goes a bit beyond today's conversation is like,
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: what are these stories that are popular are saying about the collective?
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: I like to think of it,
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: the collective dream,
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: because as if you archetypally,
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: these stories are hitting some kind of nerves.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: And how do we go into that level, right?
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's a whole other conversation.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: That's part of my interest as well.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: But in speaking to level one, staying here in the story, level two, okay.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's where I think work like yours comes in.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, okay, how is that making me?
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_00: What is activating in me here?
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: How do I process this?
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: because, side note, a lot of these books speak of grief.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's not in the synopsis, but it's there.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: In some capacity, it shows up there.
• 51:23
  I've read a lot of books that I was like,
• 51:24
  oh,
• 51:25
  this is going to just be a cozy little read.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_00: Boop, grief was right there.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: It was only like, there it is, there's the grief.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so I find that interesting.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_00: How do we then...
• 51:39
  Become readers with not just consuming and popping it in like
• 51:48
  it's candy,
• 51:49
  which is okay.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes you just eat a bag of M&Ms.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_00: But how do we then as readers take this,
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: what we're taking in and really start digesting it,
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_00: bringing,
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: paying attention,
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: I guess,
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_00: to the body?
• 52:09
  Pausing and having the intention of setting a place to really
• 52:19
  pause and to feel
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: what is touching you at that specific moment.
• 52:25
  That's a big step to start to connect with your body and to
• 52:34
  slow down the mind a little bit.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: So you can settle in better and feel what you are feeling.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_01: And actually,
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_01: when you pause to feel and you bring by itself,
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_01: brings the information to the body.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I am safe right now.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just take some time now to orient.
• 53:08
  in my space and looking for clues that I like for colors for
• 53:16
  different shapes and
• 53:20
  feeling what I'm feeling right now just to pause a little bit
• 53:25
  to down regulate and
• 53:27
  to connect it's an everyday exercise for everything not only
• 53:33
  reading like when you
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: are making coffee
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: How is to make coffee?
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: How do you make coffee?
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_01: Connect with your feet on the floor.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: Notice when you, notice the smell of the, notice, activate your senses.
• 53:49
  How the,
• 53:50
  you know,
• 53:50
  or when you are going out for a walk,
• 53:52
  notice the birds.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: How does the bird singing affect your body?
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_01: How do you feel now paying attention to the bird singing?
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_01: Slow down our mind by connecting with our five senses,
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_01: using our five senses,
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: hearing,
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_01: seeing,
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: smell,
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: taste.
• 54:21
  You can,
• 54:22
  you know,
• 54:23
  sip a tea,
• 54:23
  for example,
• 54:24
  if you were reading,
• 54:26
  you know,
• 54:27
  the book.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: Now let me stop.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to sip my tea now.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: And notice the taste of the tea as you sip.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: How does that flavor fuse your mouth?
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_01: So to connect with those, it's the somatic work.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's little things.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_01: These little things that in our daily life with the rush, the speed.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: Culturally, we are taught to, you know, to live our lives.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_01: We miss these little pleasures.
• 55:06
  SPEAKER_01: that bring to our body the sense of safety.
• 55:11
  So we are constantly running on overdrive because we don't stop
• 55:17
  to feel those
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_01: little things that are so important but not recognized as important.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's just little.
• 55:25
  It's just little but it's huge things actually that brings your
• 55:32
  body to the sense
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_01: of safety and that's what we want.
• 55:36
  your body to fully experience the presence and the safety so
• 55:41
  your body can work in
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_01: homeostasis in perfect state where you can think even clearly
• 55:51
  and then when you stop to sip your tea to pause to stretch that
• 55:57
  pleasant and that
• 55:58
  comfort sensation because that's the other thing people think
• 56:01
  when you say feel
• 56:02
  your body people think they are going to feel something
• 56:05
  tremendously dangerous or
• 56:10
  you know like it's going to be that dramatic I'm going to be
• 56:15
  lost in what I'm
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: feeling but no
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's a training.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's like going to the gym.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's like,
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 56:24
  when you are in college and you have to read all these books
• 56:27
  and you have to learn
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_01: all of that.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of the same idea.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's an ability training.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's an everyday training.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's an everyday.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's how you live.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's learning how to live in your body to recognize those things.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's a learning process.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking here,
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_00: like when you said the small things,
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_00: I'm also thinking about the small pleasures.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I've always been a big fan of the small pleasures.
• 57:01
  How are we supposed to feel this exhilarating joy or whatever
• 57:06
  if we don't even
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_00: recognize the small pleasures we have access to daily?
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_00: The things...
• 57:17
  I think that even drinking your coffee from your favorite mug
• 57:21
  or the mug that you
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_00: feel called to drink on that day,
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_00: that's a small pleasure.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_00: Go buy it.
• 57:26
  I think it helps you then start learning to receive pleasures
• 57:35
  and comfort and safety.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_00: They build up.
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's like a stamina training, right?
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's like building blocks.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 57:47
  is the building you every time you allow yourself to feel these
• 57:50
  little pleasures
• 57:52
  you are putting block over block to your into your body that
• 57:58
  okay I am allowed to
• 58:00
  feel pleasure because that's one of the things that traumatized
• 58:05
  people don't
• 58:07
  experience they think they are not worthy they think they
• 58:10
  cannot feel pleasure they
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_01: think the only thing they they deserve
• 58:16
  SPEAKER_01: is suffering.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 58:18
  And our culture is traumatized because that's the selling of
• 58:21
  our entire culture.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_00: Joy is dangerous.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_00: Pleasure is dangerous.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_01: And the thing is they want us to jump the bridge to that.
• 58:32
  So they want us to jump to the max of joy,
• 58:37
  to the max of pleasure,
• 58:39
  to the max of everything.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's the max.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_01: You have to be the max of everything.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_01: Not really.
• 58:46
  what about instead of jumping crossing that bridge step by step
• 58:56
  with no rush it's
• 58:58
  like what we read in ancient script like what we see a lot in
• 59:03
  social media like
• 59:04
  it's not the destination it's the journey but how is your
• 59:10
  journey if you're only
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_01: worried about the destination but how is the journey
• 59:17
  Yeah,
• 59:18
  I'm thinking here of actual kind of the overarching sort of
• 59:25
  when we think of romance.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_00: It is that you start the story, the characters not regulated.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_00: They are in a transition.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_00: They are going through whatever.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_00: Situation they're in.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then the whole story,
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_00: depending on how well written or not it is,
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_00: but it still carries this arc of slowly building on it.
• 59:48
  And then even the small pleasures,
• 59:50
  I'm thinking it's like the yearning,
• 59:52
  you know.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like, oh, you know, it's starting, it's growing.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then when the characters finally come together,
• 1:00:00
  now you can hold all that arousal and energy because it builds
• 1:00:05
  throughout the
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_00: story,
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_00: their connection.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_00: It didn't jump.
• 1:00:10
  And then the ending,
• 1:00:11
  if you will,
• 1:00:11
  if it's that happy ending,
• 1:00:13
  it's sort of a coming together.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_00: You're supposed to...
• 1:00:19
  Exhale and be like,
• 1:00:21
  okay,
• 1:00:21
  now I can relax and digest this story of what it did for me or
• 1:00:28
  such.
• 1:00:29
  So even the explanation we are giving about our daily lives and
• 1:00:34
  building the practice follows.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's about romancing your daily life and, you know, just keep it short.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's like giving a lot that you deserve, you know, like
• 1:00:48
  and something that we forget also it's our one of one sense
• 1:00:54
  that we have that is
• 1:00:58
  one of the most important one for our down regulation touch our
• 1:01:07
  tactile sense
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_01: that's in the mammals that when the mothers leak the babies and
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_01: The more the mother leak,
• 1:01:21
  the more that baby will be emotionally and mentally stable in
• 1:01:27
  the adult life.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_01: And the same thing with humans.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_01: The more the mother touch,
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_01: the more the mother hold and embrace and really support that baby,
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_01: the more stable that baby will be.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_01: And the more homeostasis that body will experience
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_01: There are beautiful and great research showing,
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_01: the more the parents stay with kids,
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:01:57
  SPEAKER_01: as infant,
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_01: the more the parents stay with the kids,
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_01: the more that kid will be,
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_01: emotionally stable in the adult life.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_01: So, and the touch, like,
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_01: When you touch the page of the book, how is to hold the book, right?
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's something about holding the book,
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_01: there's something about the texture of the paper,
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_01: and there's something about the weight of the paper.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_01: As you hold the book, you can feel all of that.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_01: How is to hold the book in your hands?
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_01: How do you feel holding the books?
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_01: How do you feel just noticing the weight of the book in your hands?
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:02:38
  How do you feel turning the page and noticing the texture of
• 1:02:44
  the book,
• 1:02:44
  of the paper?
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_01: How does that texture touch you?
• 1:02:51
  And how do you,
• 1:02:54
  something very,
• 1:02:58
  one of my favorite fast somatic exercises to downregulate
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_01: when you are in that state is just touch your face.
• 1:03:10
  Stop for a moment when you are reading or if you are feeling
• 1:03:17
  activated or not,
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_01: or if you just want to give yourself some love and some pleasure,
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_01: we are allowed to experience pleasure as much as we want.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_01: So just touch your face and allow your body to experience that touch.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_01: How is to touch your face, to hold your face in your hands right now?
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_01: And notice if you,
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_01: if you want to do that right now,
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_01: I invite you to experience that and really feel in your body,
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_01: how do you feel that?
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_01: The touch in your face, feeling that
• 1:04:02
  The warmth Or the cold Of your hands Just take some time Yeah
• 1:04:12
  No sounder feeling
• 1:04:14
  right now Just to do that But I mean I'm right I'm Right now I
• 1:04:19
  feel like it pulls
• 1:04:19
  the body together Like it all kind of coalesces together Yes
• 1:04:26
  Yeah I never thought
• 1:04:27
  of it But it's almost like a tiny hug But you're just Hugging
• 1:04:30
  your face Yeah
• 1:04:34
  And even your color change now,
• 1:04:37
  you have more color in your face right now.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking here, too.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it's interesting.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_00: I've always like I like books, their texture.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_00: I like to smell books, you know, nothing like a good smell of a new book.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_00: And
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_00: But now we have different ways of reading.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_00: We have the e-books,
• 1:05:01
  which take away a bit of that because now the thing you're
• 1:05:05
  holding is either your
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_00: phone or your Kindle or your e-reader.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_00: We also have the audio books,
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_00: which bring in another sense,
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_00: which is the voice,
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_00: which leads to a different kind of experience of reading the story.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_00: The voice either does or
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_00: does or makes or breaks it for you if you don't like the narrators.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_00: Or if you like them, they can really elevate the experience.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_00: But I guess the one that I feel more problematic,
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_00: if you will,
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_00: if that is the word is because I do read a lot of e-books.
• 1:05:47
  But now speaking of that,
• 1:05:49
  at least with the physical book,
• 1:05:51
  you're touching it.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_00: You have that tactile experience.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_00: With the audiobook, at least you have the voice.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: But the e-book,
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_00: how do we now bring back the touch,
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_00: the physicality,
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_00: a little bit beyond the e-reader or the phone that we're holding?
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_01: You can stop a little bit.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_01: You can put it aside, the phone or the tablet, the e-book.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_01: and you can just do a quick self-touch in your face,
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_01: in your hands,
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_01: but it's really slowing down the touch and really connecting with that.
• 1:06:41
  That's the secret of slowing down the body to bring the body to
• 1:06:48
  a state of
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_01: homeostasis is to slow down and to pay attention
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_01: In that moment, how is to do what you do?
• 1:07:02
  Just to shift that perception of slowing down and noticing,
• 1:07:10
  things change in your system.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_01: Then you experience what you are reading in a different way.
• 1:07:22
  I guess sounds to me like as you do that with more pauses More
• 1:07:26
  pauses You are
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_00: allowing your body time to digest a bit what's taking in Yeah,
• 1:07:34
  because the other thing that is coming to me now is like when
• 1:07:38
  you are reading
• 1:07:38
  something and then you start to get activated your brain starts
• 1:07:46
  to shift the state
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_00: Hmm
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_01: So your neocortex,
• 1:07:52
  if you are reading something that is very dangerous and your
• 1:07:56
  body starts to react
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_01: and starts to build up the defensive system,
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_01: the soldier starts to put the armor on.
• 1:08:10
  SPEAKER_01: We are ready to fight.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_01: If that starts to happen, your ability to understand what you are reading
• 1:08:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:08:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:08:39
  That's probably why I have such a hard time reading books that
• 1:08:42
  have too many battle scenes.
• 1:08:44
  SPEAKER_00: Again, I feel like now that you, I guess I disassociate.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I miss all the details.
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not interested.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, just keep going.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's too much.
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 1:08:57
  Because of that,
• 1:08:58
  because your body is getting ready to fight and your brain
• 1:09:02
  shifts.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_01: to fight mode.
• 1:09:06
  So your body starts to release stress hormones to get ready for
• 1:09:12
  that fight.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_01: Your muscle starts to tense.
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_01: Your blood vases starts to contract.
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_01: The pressure starts to go up.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_01: So this cascade reaction happens in your body.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you stop that?
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's the secret.
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_01: You have to pause.
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_01: You have to pause and you have to feel your feet on the floor,
• 1:09:43
  SPEAKER_01: bring the sense,
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_01: the information to the body of here and now.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'm here and now.
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_01: Now you orient to here and now.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_01: Let me orient you here and now to show my brain.
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_01: So your body will, the brain reads messages from the body.
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_01: The brain is a big reader.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_01: The brain is a huge reader.
• 1:10:09
  So when you pause and then you start to bring this information
• 1:10:15
  to the body that you
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_01: are safe and the clues that you are really safe,
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_01: that your body is really safe,
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_01: So the body starts to relax and as the body realizes,
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_01: the brain realizes,
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_01: okay,
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_01: we are not in danger.
• 1:10:34
  So the red light turns off and the brain shifts again to the
• 1:10:39
  learning mode and then
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_01: you can start your book again.
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_01: And if you feel that you are dissociating or you stop...
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then you do the same thing Or you can go for a walk,
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_01: for example You can go for a walk around the block Or if you're home,
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:11:00
  SPEAKER_01: if it's not You can,
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:11:03
  start to see what works for you and what doesn't And what will
• 1:11:09
  your body I guess
• 1:11:12
  SPEAKER_00: it's trying to tell you it wants,
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_00: you know Maybe it wants to walk,
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_00: maybe it says I need a shower Maybe it needs to go clean,
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_00: put the dishes away Yeah
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Sort of like I need to come back.
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_01: What tools do you have?
• 1:11:27
  Like,
• 1:11:27
  for example,
• 1:11:28
  I have,
• 1:11:28
  I really like to have this stress balls around.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I have that in my office for my clients for,
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:11:35
  SPEAKER_01: for,
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_01: so I just stopped,
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_01: just stopped for a little,
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_01: for a few minutes and just like press,
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_01: let's press a little bit.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because as when you start, you know, that energy start growing, growing,
• 1:11:53
  It needs a place to go So it needs muscle involvement So that
• 1:12:01
  muscle will use that
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_01: energy That is the body's pumping You know,
• 1:12:11
  it's making me really think about To make reading Because
• 1:12:19
  reading is often
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_00: considered a passive activity
• 1:12:23
  it's just you and the thing they're reading and I've always
• 1:12:28
  thought how to make it
• 1:12:30
  not passive because I feel like if we stay with that the full
• 1:12:36
  spire isn't completed
• 1:12:39
  SPEAKER_00: and so you're it's
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_00: What you're talking about,
• 1:12:43
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:12:44
  SPEAKER_00: coming back to the body,
• 1:12:45
  SPEAKER_00: doing something,
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_00: holding a stress ball,
• 1:12:47
  SPEAKER_00: whatever the texture,
• 1:12:48
  SPEAKER_00: something that you have with you that you would like.
• 1:12:51
  Maybe instead of giving people bookmarks,
• 1:12:54
  we should give them stress balls.
• 1:12:57
  SPEAKER_00: But a whole new merchandise for the book lovers.
• 1:13:03
  SPEAKER_00: This comes with the book and the stress balls.
• 1:13:05
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to need that, especially if it's high octane stories.
• 1:13:11
  SPEAKER_00: But it's a way I'm seeing it as a way to make reading less passive,
• 1:13:17
  SPEAKER_00: but it's just not in the way I thought it needed to be.
• 1:13:20
  It's actually much more subtle and not just you consuming the
• 1:13:25
  story or having it
• 1:13:27
  SPEAKER_00: just go over you,
• 1:13:28
  SPEAKER_00: but you digesting it and bringing and using the body,
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_00: bringing into the physicality.
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_00: and it doesn't need to be huge it doesn't need to be massive but to do it
• 1:13:42
  throughout the process it makes the I'm sensing it makes the
• 1:13:47
  reading experience
• 1:13:48
  richer in ways that perhaps your mind might not catch quote
• 1:13:53
  unquote but it's
• 1:13:55
  working under the radar I feel like it elevates reading from
• 1:14:02
  it's just this thing
• 1:14:05
  SPEAKER_00: you do with your mind
• 1:14:08
  It makes it more holistic Totally Totally Yeah And It's also a
• 1:14:18
  way to connect With
• 1:14:19
  what you feel What you experience Right now And I had a teacher
• 1:14:28
  He's marvelous I'll
• 1:14:30
  never forget I was Doing an association training With him He's
• 1:14:34
  American But he
• 1:14:35
  SPEAKER_01: lives in Brazil In Florianópolis
• 1:14:38
  and it was so hilarious just like we all you know arrived in
• 1:14:47
  the venue in the place
• 1:14:49
  where the training was going to happen and everyone started
• 1:14:53
  entering and sitting
• 1:14:54
  and then he was sitting in his chair on his chair and he was
• 1:14:59
  just there sitting
• 1:15:01
  holding space and we were there talking talking talking talking
• 1:15:05
  blah blah blah
• 1:15:07
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, take your time to arrive here.
• 1:15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:15:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then he gave like five minutes.
• 1:15:20
  SPEAKER_01: He was quiet.
• 1:15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Just take your time to land here and to arrive here.
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_01: And the tone of voice...
• 1:15:31
  SPEAKER_01: That starts to calm.
• 1:15:33
  SPEAKER_01: How do you feel right now?
• 1:15:34
  SPEAKER_01: Just to hear that.
• 1:15:35
  SPEAKER_01: Just to listen.
• 1:15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 1:15:36
  SPEAKER_00: I already feel.
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I'm in that room with you all.
• 1:15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:15:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'm calming down myself.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_00: But also thinking about how often as we host events,
• 1:15:53
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:15:54
  SPEAKER_00: any shape or form,
• 1:15:55
  SPEAKER_00: we forget that part.
• 1:15:57
  SPEAKER_00: We need to arrive.
• 1:16:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking also that something that often readers will say,
• 1:16:03
  SPEAKER_00: if you're especially if you're an avid reader,
• 1:16:05
  SPEAKER_00: you're reading,
• 1:16:07
  SPEAKER_00: you're really going test into some books and then you're you're like,
• 1:16:10
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 1:16:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in a reading slump.
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I can't read anything.
• 1:16:16
  SPEAKER_00: And often that is spoken with a tone of anxiety of like,
• 1:16:19
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 1:16:19
  SPEAKER_00: my God,
• 1:16:19
  SPEAKER_00: am I going to come back to reading or is it is it done?
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_00: And even though I feel a little bit of that anxiety,
• 1:16:27
  SPEAKER_00: sometimes I'm like,
• 1:16:28
  SPEAKER_00: is it going to come back or is it gone?
• 1:16:30
  SPEAKER_00: But the reality is when I quiet myself down, I'm like, I'm digesting.
• 1:16:37
  You know,
• 1:16:37
  I read all these books or this particular book was very
• 1:16:41
  intense,
• 1:16:42
  had a lot going on.
• 1:16:43
  SPEAKER_00: I felt a lot.
• 1:16:44
  SPEAKER_00: I was activated up and down on that roller coaster.
• 1:16:48
  I need time to like,
• 1:16:51
  you know,
• 1:16:51
  I can't like the brain is like I've had too much information.
• 1:16:55
  SPEAKER_00: I need to stop.
• 1:16:58
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes people also say, oh, I need a palate cleanser.
• 1:17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so I read this high intense, high octane book.
• 1:17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now I need a little something easy and cozy,
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:17:09
  SPEAKER_00: a little a little Alka-Seltzer for the huge lunch.
• 1:17:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you just had feijoada.
• 1:17:17
  SPEAKER_00: If the listener doesn't know,
• 1:17:19
  SPEAKER_00: that's a national dish in Brazil that is delicious,
• 1:17:22
  SPEAKER_00: but can be quite heavy like beans and all.
• 1:17:27
  but that's what we need we need to sort of find our ways to
• 1:17:31
  regulate ourselves
• 1:17:33
  always I like to say always a pendulum what goes in one side
• 1:17:38
  goes to the other side
• 1:17:39
  how do you pendulate how do you go through that pendulation if
• 1:17:44
  you are going
• 1:17:46
  through too much to one side notice how it should go to the
• 1:17:50
  other side a little and
• 1:17:53
  SPEAKER_01: be sure the other side will come
• 1:17:56
  and it's just that movement that's the life movement that
• 1:18:01
  angulation happened
• 1:18:03
  naturally and it's just movement and you just follow yeah well
• 1:18:13
  I think this um
• 1:18:16
  This really enriched my perspective on reading and what I've
• 1:18:22
  been thinking about in
• 1:18:23
  SPEAKER_00: terms of the body and the physicality of it.
• 1:18:27
  It really has helped me see the body of the reader as quite
• 1:18:35
  central here rather
• 1:18:37
  SPEAKER_00: than just a side character.
• 1:18:39
  SPEAKER_00: And
• 1:18:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think if we want to gain more out of our reading experience,
• 1:18:50
  and especially if someone notices that they're tending to read
• 1:18:53
  certain things a
• 1:18:54
  SPEAKER_00: lot,
• 1:18:54
  SPEAKER_00: they're really into this thing,
• 1:18:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is an invitation to be like,
• 1:18:59
  SPEAKER_00: notice how it's expressing itself through your body.
• 1:19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because whatever perhaps you're dealing with,
• 1:19:05
  SPEAKER_00: that your conscious mind isn't ready to go there yet.
• 1:19:11
  But your body is being activated in such a way through this
• 1:19:14
  story that if you do
• 1:19:16
  SPEAKER_00: more pauses,
• 1:19:18
  SPEAKER_00: come back to the moment,
• 1:19:21
  SPEAKER_00: whatever needs to be done,
• 1:19:22
  SPEAKER_00: notice what rises.
• 1:19:25
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like it will make not only your reading life richer,
• 1:19:29
  SPEAKER_00: but it will help unfurl whatever's going on with you.
• 1:19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Then the reading becomes healing.
• 1:19:42
  That's when reading becomes healing Yeah You're not consuming
• 1:19:48
  the books You're
• 1:19:51
  SPEAKER_00: metabolizing them Yeah Well,
• 1:19:59
  this was very helpful for me as a reader It's a pleasure to be
• 1:20:05
  here talking about
• 1:20:06
  SPEAKER_01: that I'm so thankful for the invitation
• 1:20:10
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:20:11
  Is there anything you feel like you want to say to readers out
• 1:20:15
  there of romance or
• 1:20:16
  SPEAKER_00: not even romance,
• 1:20:18
  SPEAKER_00: just especially fiction?
• 1:20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because I think that but nonfiction does happen,
• 1:20:22
  SPEAKER_00: too,
• 1:20:22
  SPEAKER_00: because I have read nonfiction books that have really activated me.
• 1:20:28
  SPEAKER_00: But what would you say?
• 1:20:30
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything you feel like you want to say sort of?
• 1:20:36
  SPEAKER_01: Hmm.
• 1:20:42
  I don't want to think too much about what I want to say when to
• 1:20:44
  come you know to
• 1:20:45
  allow that to come naturally and I'd say curiosity be curious
• 1:20:56
  just be curious with
• 1:20:58
  what you are reading what is emerging in your physiology and
• 1:21:06
  curiosity can be very
• 1:21:09
  SPEAKER_01: helpful
• 1:21:10
  SPEAKER_01: in that moment to help guide you in that moment.
• 1:21:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I feel that I'm a very pro curiosity.
• 1:21:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if you get tickled.
• 1:21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, what's that about?
• 1:21:28
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 1:21:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, this is great.
• 1:21:32
  SPEAKER_00: This is really great.
• 1:21:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well,
• 1:21:36
  SPEAKER_00: Moving towards the wrapping up here,
• 1:21:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'd like to do a little five rapid fire questions and,
• 1:21:44
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 1:21:44
  SPEAKER_00: answer from your body.
• 1:21:46
  SPEAKER_00: Just answer for what rises first.
• 1:21:48
  SPEAKER_00: Don't overthink it.
• 1:21:50
  SPEAKER_00: Are you ready?
• 1:21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I'm sitting in a comfortable position with my feet on the floor.
• 1:21:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm ready.
• 1:21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:21:59
  SPEAKER_00: For you,
• 1:22:00
  what was a book or perhaps a film or a song that you felt in
• 1:22:05
  your body before you
• 1:22:06
  SPEAKER_00: understood it in your mind?
• 1:22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Waking the Tiger, a book from Peter Levine.
• 1:22:17
  SPEAKER_01: I understood that I was not broken.
• 1:22:21
  SPEAKER_01: There was nothing wrong with me.
• 1:22:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was just need to look at myself.
• 1:22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:22:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:22:29
  What is the sensation in your body that you've learned to trust
• 1:22:33
  it completely when it shows up?
• 1:22:37
  That contraction and tension when you don't have to do
• 1:22:44
  something for example when
• 1:22:48
  someone invites you to do something and then you don't feel
• 1:22:52
  like going or doing and
• 1:22:57
  SPEAKER_01: then it's a no
• 1:22:59
  and then to follow that that's when someone when an invitation
• 1:23:06
  comes and you feel
• 1:23:08
  that kind of I feel like that contraction in my ribs and I say
• 1:23:14
  that's something
• 1:23:15
  that I don't have to do that's a no no that's a hell no that's
• 1:23:20
  a hell no yeah and
• 1:23:21
  the opposite is quite right also you feel open and then you
• 1:23:24
  feel kind of open okay
• 1:23:26
  SPEAKER_01: I should do that
• 1:23:28
  SPEAKER_00: I the openness of the chest for me is a hell yes.
• 1:23:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:23:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's a hell yes.
• 1:23:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:23:34
  SPEAKER_00: I do feel the contraction.
• 1:23:35
  SPEAKER_00: I feel so the body gets all tight, especially around the stomach area.
• 1:23:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's kind of like, I'm not feeling safe here.
• 1:23:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's not happening.
• 1:23:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's a no.
• 1:23:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very if.
• 1:23:48
  SPEAKER_01: And as you follow that, you learn to follow that life change.
• 1:23:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:23:55
  SPEAKER_00: And with people,
• 1:23:56
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 1:23:58
  SPEAKER_00: the image comes to me,
• 1:23:59
  SPEAKER_00: but in the body just feels like an armor just taking over the body.
• 1:24:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's like as if I had scales and it takes over.
• 1:24:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's with people,
• 1:24:10
  SPEAKER_00: the image,
• 1:24:10
  SPEAKER_00: I guess,
• 1:24:11
  SPEAKER_00: when the drawbridge is closed,
• 1:24:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like,
• 1:24:13
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 1:24:13
  SPEAKER_00: don't trust that person.
• 1:24:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's off.
• 1:24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Get out of there.
• 1:24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:24:19
  SPEAKER_00: So another one,
• 1:24:20
  SPEAKER_00: number three,
• 1:24:21
  SPEAKER_00: something the body knows that the mind is always the last to hear.
• 1:24:26
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think that is for you?
• 1:24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Something that the body knows that is the last thing that the mind hears.
• 1:24:39
  Oh,
• 1:24:40
  the body knows that the body wants to complete the movement,
• 1:24:44
  the defense that,
• 1:24:46
  for example,
• 1:24:49
  you were driving and you got in a car accident but your body
• 1:24:55
  really wanted to move
• 1:24:57
  your arms wanted to turn but that movement wasn't the body
• 1:25:07
  couldn't do that
• 1:25:07
  movement so that reaction is stuck in the physiology but the
• 1:25:14
  mind doesn't know that
• 1:25:16
  SPEAKER_01: and then when you
• 1:25:19
  SPEAKER_01: Help the body to complete that movement.
• 1:25:24
  Huge release,
• 1:25:25
  not a huge,
• 1:25:26
  but a release comes and the body relax and the mind.
• 1:25:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, so I'm so glad you did that now because now I can be in peace.
• 1:25:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:25:37
  SPEAKER_01: But that's the cherry on top of the cake to guide the body complete.
• 1:25:46
  SPEAKER_00: The movement it was going for.
• 1:25:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:25:49
  yeah that's interesting yeah well we're both our native tongues
• 1:25:54
  are portuguese
• 1:25:54
  brazilian portuguese so for you brazilian portuguese or english
• 1:25:58
  which language do
• 1:25:59
  you feel in all brazilian portuguese for sure i was i was
• 1:26:06
  watching an interview of
• 1:26:08
  SPEAKER_01: fernanda um
• 1:26:11
  Fernanda Torres and that just landed in me in such a different
• 1:26:18
  way she was saying
• 1:26:21
  someone was asking her how do you act how do you feel acting in
• 1:26:25
  English she said I
• 1:26:27
  can't because I don't feel in English all the words I know in
• 1:26:34
  Portuguese I feel
• 1:26:36
  SPEAKER_01: them in Portuguese because I associated like you know that
• 1:26:40
  sensation in my body with that definition with that word in
• 1:26:45
  Portuguese so I know
• 1:26:47
  when you tell me let's drink like a coffee with like a bread in
• 1:26:52
  the morning with
• 1:26:52
  butter you know I'm already salivating every Brazilian knows
• 1:26:57
  that it's gonna start
• 1:26:58
  salivating yeah yeah that in English that doesn't make the same
• 1:27:05
  you know cause in
• 1:27:08
  SPEAKER_01: my body no it's different
• 1:27:10
  SPEAKER_00: I love I love cheese and a piece of cheese and coffee,
• 1:27:15
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:27:15
  SPEAKER_00: because I'm from Minas and the whole cheese thing.
• 1:27:18
  So all my American friends are like,
• 1:27:21
  what's with the cheese and the coffee?
• 1:27:23
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I don't know what to say.
• 1:27:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's like we're brought up on this.
• 1:27:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it just it's I have to start my day.
• 1:27:32
  SPEAKER_00: I feel I.
• 1:27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh,
• 1:27:35
  SPEAKER_00: I've been living here for so long,
• 1:27:36
  SPEAKER_00: but I think now I've become a bit more bilingual because for a long time,
• 1:27:43
  SPEAKER_00: if I really needed to express anger,
• 1:27:46
  SPEAKER_00: it had to be in Portuguese.
• 1:27:48
  SPEAKER_00: The swear words had to be in Portuguese to really get it out.
• 1:27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Now I can do it in English and it hits the spot.
• 1:27:56
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like when I'm really enraged,
• 1:28:00
  it will mix the English for the Portuguese as if both of them
• 1:28:04
  have to be expressed.
• 1:28:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting.
• 1:28:08
  SPEAKER_00: The language is another element, right?
• 1:28:13
  SPEAKER_00: It sounds different.
• 1:28:16
  Anyway,
• 1:28:16
  so I'd like to tell my husband that I may think like an
• 1:28:20
  American intellectually,
• 1:28:23
  SPEAKER_00: But I feel like Latin.
• 1:28:25
  SPEAKER_00: My emotions are Latin.
• 1:28:27
  SPEAKER_00: You can't take that away.
• 1:28:29
  You know,
• 1:28:29
  even if I I'm not your,
• 1:28:32
  you know,
• 1:28:33
  I like to joke I'm a fake Brazilian.
• 1:28:35
  SPEAKER_00: I don't tan.
• 1:28:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like soccer.
• 1:28:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't do samba, you know, but
• 1:28:41
  the Latin is there it's strong you know that's how I feel I
• 1:28:45
  feel through the Latin
• 1:28:47
  blood okay last one if the body could assign homework what
• 1:28:54
  would it give most
• 1:28:56
  SPEAKER_01: people right now to do pause pause pause pause unplug pause and feel
• 1:29:10
  SPEAKER_01: We are running a marathon without knowing we are running a marathon.
• 1:29:19
  SPEAKER_01: We have to stop doing that.
• 1:29:20
  SPEAKER_01: We have to pause and bring the sense of safety to the body.
• 1:29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:29:29
  SPEAKER_00: And in this conversation,
• 1:29:31
  I'm realizing the barrage of information that we are pummeled
• 1:29:36
  with all the time.
• 1:29:41
  I can see now that it's much more damaging than we think
• 1:29:46
  because the body can't
• 1:29:48
  SPEAKER_00: even begin to process that Images,
• 1:29:53
  SPEAKER_01: news,
• 1:29:55
  everything constantly being bombarded by this so that's why if
• 1:30:02
  you see what the
• 1:30:05
  SPEAKER_01: ultra rich what the ultra luxurious what are they doing
• 1:30:11
  SPEAKER_01: Where are they going?
• 1:30:15
  They're unplugging They are unplugging They are going to places
• 1:30:19
  I have TV They
• 1:30:20
  don't have radios They don't have internet They are in nature
• 1:30:25
  They are You know
• 1:30:28
  Eating Super healthy That's what they are doing Because they
• 1:30:32
  know They have the
• 1:30:33
  information Yeah They know that Receiving all this information
• 1:30:39
  Is not healthy for
• 1:30:39
  SPEAKER_01: the body
• 1:30:42
  SPEAKER_01: So we need to unplug,
• 1:30:43
  SPEAKER_01: we need to go more into nature,
• 1:30:45
  SPEAKER_01: we need to go more outside,
• 1:30:48
  SPEAKER_01: we need to be in relationship,
• 1:30:49
  SPEAKER_01: we need to get involved with people we are connected to,
• 1:30:53
  SPEAKER_01: we need more,
• 1:30:55
  SPEAKER_01: we need to do more about what feeds our body,
• 1:30:59
  SPEAKER_01: feed our soul,
• 1:31:00
  SPEAKER_01: to focus more on that a little.
• 1:31:03
  SPEAKER_01: Not only work, work, work, work, work, work 24-7 or like
• 1:31:09
  SPEAKER_01: or make things.
• 1:31:10
  SPEAKER_01: No, we are not, you know, created to do, do, do, do, do.
• 1:31:16
  SPEAKER_01: We are created to experience, to feel.
• 1:31:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:31:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we don't have to do it all the time.
• 1:31:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, because one of the worries I sometimes have in seeing the...
• 1:31:31
  SPEAKER_00: how everything gets co-opted to be made more.
• 1:31:35
  SPEAKER_00: It takes away the savoring of it.
• 1:31:38
  SPEAKER_00: And
• 1:31:42
  And I think none of us are immune to it unless we stop to watch
• 1:31:46
  because I can see
• 1:31:46
  SPEAKER_00: this even in myself.
• 1:31:48
  SPEAKER_00: I have to sometimes be like, I need to savor this book.
• 1:31:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need to rush it.
• 1:31:55
  SPEAKER_00: But the constant consume, consume, consume leads us to just go crazy.
• 1:32:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like I know people who listen to audio books at double speed.
• 1:32:08
  SPEAKER_00: And part of me is like, why so fast?
• 1:32:12
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly Why so fast?
• 1:32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Then you're not in,
• 1:32:18
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like,
• 1:32:19
  SPEAKER_00: to me at least,
• 1:32:20
  SPEAKER_00: who struggles with an audiobook,
• 1:32:22
  SPEAKER_00: it's like,
• 1:32:22
  SPEAKER_00: oh,
• 1:32:22
  SPEAKER_00: I want to,
• 1:32:24
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to enjoy it while I'm in it Exactly You said something,
• 1:32:31
  SPEAKER_01: you listen to double fast,
• 1:32:32
  SPEAKER_01: that's interesting Some people do,
• 1:32:35
  SPEAKER_00: yeah
• 1:32:36
  SPEAKER_00: There were people who are fast readers.
• 1:32:39
  SPEAKER_00: I was never a fast reader, but I wish.
• 1:32:42
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, we live in this culture of speed.
• 1:32:49
  SPEAKER_00: And that's interesting that a lot of the stories are about yearning,
• 1:32:55
  about noticing the body and the pleasure and coming back to
• 1:32:59
  that pleasure.
• 1:33:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's lovely.
• 1:33:02
  There's nothing wrong about doing,
• 1:33:05
  doing,
• 1:33:05
  doing or,
• 1:33:05
  you know,
• 1:33:07
  being fast.
• 1:33:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:33:10
  But just to have in mind,
• 1:33:11
  I can be fast and I can slow down and I can pause.
• 1:33:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's not only one thing.
• 1:33:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:33:21
  SPEAKER_00: There are phases.
• 1:33:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:33:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:33:24
  SPEAKER_01: Phases.
• 1:33:25
  SPEAKER_01: Phases be open.
• 1:33:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like divergent.
• 1:33:32
  Not one thing or the other,
• 1:33:33
  but open to whatever for all the possibilities that can be.
• 1:33:39
  SPEAKER_00: Be curious, you know.
• 1:33:40
  SPEAKER_01: Be curious.
• 1:33:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:33:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:33:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think this was very helpful to me.
• 1:33:47
  SPEAKER_00: I hope it's for the reader too.
• 1:33:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's giving me lots of ideas as I am writing about all of this.
• 1:33:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so thank you so much for coming.
• 1:33:58
  SPEAKER_01: My pleasure.
• 1:33:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:34:00
  SPEAKER_00: It was good to reconnect and hey, we got an episode out of it.
• 1:34:07
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 1:34:09
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:34:10
  SPEAKER_01: My pleasure.
• 1:34:12
  SPEAKER_00: So here's what I'm taking from this conversation with Alain.
• 1:34:15
  The body of the reader is the third character in every romance
• 1:34:19
  novel we read.
• 1:34:21
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, any novel we read.
• 1:34:24
  SPEAKER_00: It is the one that no one talks about, though.
• 1:34:28
  SPEAKER_00: It is the one that is doing
• 1:34:29
  The actual work Getting activated Getting moved Sometimes
• 1:34:35
  getting stuck holding a
• 1:34:36
  charge A month later Because nobody taught us how to digest
• 1:34:41
  What we just took in
• 1:34:43
  I feel this episode really drives the point that there is a
• 1:34:46
  difference between
• 1:34:48
  SPEAKER_00: consuming the books and digesting,
• 1:34:51
  SPEAKER_00: metabolizing them.
• 1:34:53
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the key element.
• 1:34:55
  SPEAKER_00: You're not just consuming the books.
• 1:34:58
  SPEAKER_00: You are metabolizing them.
• 1:35:00
  SPEAKER_00: And this distinction is everything.
• 1:35:03
  SPEAKER_00: Consuming is what the culture trains us to do.
• 1:35:06
  SPEAKER_00: Fast.
• 1:35:07
  SPEAKER_00: More.
• 1:35:08
  SPEAKER_00: Next.
• 1:35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Metabolizing is slower.
• 1:35:12
  SPEAKER_00: It asks you to pause.
• 1:35:14
  SPEAKER_00: To name what you're feeling.
• 1:35:17
  SPEAKER_00: To put your hand on your face and notice that's a tiny hug.
• 1:35:21
  SPEAKER_00: To honor the reading slump as your body is saying, I'm still digesting.
• 1:35:27
  SPEAKER_00: Give me a minute.
• 1:35:29
  If this episode opened a door for you,
• 1:35:31
  I want to invite you through another one.
• 1:35:34
  SPEAKER_00: Forbidden Doors is a six-week intensive I'm running starting on May 16th.
• 1:35:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's where this work goes deeper.
• 1:35:42
  Reading romance is medicine,
• 1:35:44
  in community,
• 1:35:45
  with the body as part of the conversation.
• 1:35:48
  SPEAKER_00: The link is in the show notes if you want to take a look.
• 1:35:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to have you there.
• 1:35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Now, until our next episode, here's something I want you to sit with.
• 1:35:59
  SPEAKER_00: Think about the last book that really moved you.
• 1:36:02
  SPEAKER_00: Where did you feel it in your body?
• 1:36:06
  SPEAKER_00: And what's still living there?
• 1:36:08
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to answer this out loud, but just notice what comes up.
• 1:36:13
  SPEAKER_00: And the next time you sit down with a book, try this.
• 1:36:17
  SPEAKER_00: Pause before you open it.
• 1:36:20
  SPEAKER_00: Notice your feet on the floor.
• 1:36:22
  SPEAKER_00: The weight of the book in your hands.
• 1:36:24
  SPEAKER_00: See what changes.
• 1:36:27
  SPEAKER_00: And before you go,
• 1:36:28
  I just want to invite you to follow Romancing the Threshold
• 1:36:31
  wherever you listen to
• 1:36:32
  podcasts and share this episode with a fellow reader in your
• 1:36:36
  life who needs to hear
• 1:36:37
  SPEAKER_00: it.
• 1:36:38
  SPEAKER_00: Until then, I'll see you at the next Threshold.