Latest / The Better Boards Podcast Series / Beyond Minutes: Reimagining the Board Secretary in the Age of AI | Moya Heyhurst, Company Secretary

Transcript

Beyond Minutes: Reimagining the Board Secretary in the Age of AI | Moya Heyhurst, Company Secretary · The Better Boards Podcast Series

• 0:02
  Sabine: Beyond Minutes, reimagining the board secretary in the age of AI.
• 0:07
  Sabine: Welcome to the BetterBots podcast series, the podcast for chairs, CEOs, non-executive directors, company secretaries, and their advisors.
• 0:17
  Sabine: Every episode is filled with practical insights and learnings from those inside boardrooms.
• 0:23
  Sabine: We discuss what really matters and highlight actionable steps you can take to enhance the performance of your board.
• 0:31
  Sabine: The role of the board secretary is a crossroad.
• 0:34
  Sabine: Traditionally, it is seen as a guardian of governance, the keeper of the minutes, and the facilitator of board processes.
• 0:43
  Sabine: The secretary function is now being reshaped by rapidly evolving boardroom demands.
• 0:50
  Sabine: Now the rise of AI, the growing complexity of governance and the increasing need for insight-rich strategic support are challenging the conventional expectations of the role.
• 1:04
  Sabine: But this isn't just about task automation, it's about purpose.
• 1:09
  Sabine: Boards don't just need better executions, they need sharper interpretation, integration and strategic enablement.
• 1:19
  Sabine: If the board secretary doesn't step forward into this space, others will.
• 1:25
  Sabine: The question is no longer whether the role is changing.
• 1:29
  Sabine: It's how those in it will choose to respond.
• 1:33
  Sabine: In this episode, we dive into the realities shaping this transformation.
• 1:39
  Sabine: We'll examine how AI is already influencing board secretaries, explore the expanding demands on board governance, and tackle the critical question, is the future of the board secretary about expansion, repositioning, or replacing?
• 1:55
  Sabine: With insights from experienced governance professionals, we'll unpack what's truly at stake, why board secretaries have a unique opportunity to lead, and how they must redefine their posture and not just update their processes.
• 2:10
  Sabine: If the profession is ready, the time to act is now.
• 2:15
  Sabine: I'm absolutely delighted to welcome again Moja Hayhurst.
• 2:19
  Sabine: She is a fellow of the Chartered Governance Institute with over 25 years of corporate governance experience across multiple industries, including mining, financial services, and insurance.
• 2:31
  Sabine: Now, the reason why we invited Muya again, she's heavily involved with the Center for AI in Board Effectiveness and takes part in the research.
• 2:43
  Sabine: And the mission is to progress AI's role in board effectiveness and help board ecosystems adapt.
• 2:51
  Sabine: Moja, thank you so much for being back with us at the Better Boards podcast series.
• 2:56
  Sabine: Thank you so much.
• 2:58
  Sabine: Excited to be back with you.
• 2:59
  Sabine: Now, there is so much excitement in the whole board community and the company secretariat community about AI, which is why we have decided to focus a little bit on the topic.
• 3:12
  Sabine: And you're basically kicking us off with a small series we are planning now with a special focus on what it all means for company secretaries.
• 3:22
  Sabine: So let's first look at this big picture.
• 3:25
  Sabine: Why now?
• 3:27
  Moya Heyhurst: Thank you.
• 3:27
  Moya Heyhurst: You know, you're so right.
• 3:28
  Moya Heyhurst: You know, you can't open up LinkedIn or pick up an article without some reference to AI.
• 3:34
  Moya Heyhurst: So I'm working with a number of other industry leaders for the Center for AI and Board Effectiveness.
• 3:42
  Moya Heyhurst: And we are looking at AI's impact on various elements of the board space.
• 3:47
  Moya Heyhurst: And today, as you said, company secretaries or board secretaries is where we are looking today.
• 3:53
  Moya Heyhurst: And it's really around AI.
• 3:55
  Moya Heyhurst: how things are evolving in that space.
• 3:57
  Moya Heyhurst: And board secretaries really are caught in the middle of that transformation.
• 4:04
  Moya Heyhurst: Honestly, I feel like we are standing on a precipice.
• 4:07
  Moya Heyhurst: You know, directors are already seeing the benefits of using AI.
• 4:11
  Moya Heyhurst: Many of them are using it personally.
• 4:13
  Moya Heyhurst: And in some progressive companies, there's some in there as well.
• 4:17
  Moya Heyhurst: And we've seen the directors now actively asking for AI.
• 4:22
  Moya Heyhurst: What are the companies doing?
• 4:23
  Moya Heyhurst: What are the secretaries doing?
• 4:25
  Moya Heyhurst: On the other side, the business is flying with AI in various forms across the business.
• 4:31
  Moya Heyhurst: AI is helping them refine, convert data, just find that competitive edge and unlock it.
• 4:40
  Moya Heyhurst: And as I said, company secretaries are standing in the middle, but many of them, us, me, are still wondering, what is our role?
• 4:50
  Moya Heyhurst: I really feel like the moment is now.
• 4:54
  Moya Heyhurst: We've gone way beyond just arranging meetings and writing minutes.
• 4:59
  Moya Heyhurst: And sadly, if you, those listening, have defined the board secretary as arranging meetings and writing minutes, or if you as a board secretary define yourself as arranging in that space, then this is really a call to arms.
• 5:17
  Moya Heyhurst: This is the moment.
• 5:19
  Moya Heyhurst: This is what is changing.
• 5:21
  Moya Heyhurst: I
• 5:22
  Sabine: mean, the media has become less critical.
• 5:24
  Sabine: I mean, I can remember some months ago, it was about, ah, is it safe?
• 5:28
  Sabine: Is it secure?
• 5:30
  Sabine: There was a bit hesitation.
• 5:32
  Sabine: There is now less hesitation, but there are still some question marks about how useful is it actually?
• 5:40
  Sabine: I mean, those are all
• 5:41
  Moya Heyhurst: truths.
• 5:42
  Moya Heyhurst: The reality is AI is there.
• 5:44
  Moya Heyhurst: I mean, at the moment I've got an iPhone, I've got an iPad, and I've got a laptop sitting on my desk.
• 5:52
  Moya Heyhurst: AI is listening, whether we like it or not.
• 5:55
  Moya Heyhurst: We've got to get past that knee-jerk reaction.
• 5:58
  Moya Heyhurst: Now it's more about the why.
• 6:00
  Moya Heyhurst: What is going on?
• 6:02
  Moya Heyhurst: What are we doing?
• 6:03
  Moya Heyhurst: Where are we?
• 6:05
  Moya Heyhurst: How do we use it?
• 6:06
  Moya Heyhurst: And it comes down to playing with it.
• 6:07
  Moya Heyhurst: AI is still just a tool.
• 6:11
  Moya Heyhurst: It progresses things.
• 6:15
  Moya Heyhurst: It helps you to cut through data.
• 6:18
  Moya Heyhurst: It's a tool.
• 6:20
  Moya Heyhurst: It really is a tool.
• 6:22
  Moya Heyhurst: And it can either...
• 6:23
  Moya Heyhurst: And I'm going to take a deep breath when I say this.
• 6:25
  Moya Heyhurst: It can either destroy your world or it can make it better.
• 6:30
  Moya Heyhurst: It's like anything.
• 6:32
  Moya Heyhurst: It's how you decide to use it.
• 6:35
  Moya Heyhurst: There is no one size fits all.
• 6:38
  Moya Heyhurst: Every person...
• 6:39
  Moya Heyhurst: And every company is in a different space.
• 6:42
  Moya Heyhurst: So it really is up to each person to decide what that looks like for them.
• 6:48
  Moya Heyhurst: And in reality, that is the output that we are looking for from the Center for AI for Board Effectiveness, is to help people frame those questions and delve deep within their organizations to how to do this.
• 7:02
  Moya Heyhurst: Because over the years, the board secretary has...
• 7:06
  Moya Heyhurst: you know, has been defined as, you know, as I said before, the quality of minutes.
• 7:11
  Moya Heyhurst: But, you know, if you take it a couple of steps back, at the beginning, the board secretary role evolved as being the right hand of the CEO and the chair.
• 7:21
  Moya Heyhurst: Now it's been pushed so many levels down the organization.
• 7:24
  Moya Heyhurst: And COSEX have always been the guardians of corporate governance.
• 7:28
  Moya Heyhurst: But you know, they have stepped further, further back into the shadows and worked so quietly in the background just to get all of the stuff done.
• 7:38
  Moya Heyhurst: Not just administrative stuff that people tend to see.
• 7:42
  Moya Heyhurst: There's so much that happens in the background that company secretaries don't shout about.
• 7:49
  Moya Heyhurst: You know, we're a very quiet group of people.
• 7:53
  Moya Heyhurst: We get stuff done.
• 7:56
  Moya Heyhurst: Yeah.
• 7:56
  Moya Heyhurst: And because we are quiet, people don't have gotten the value that we
• 8:01
  Sabine: bring.
• 8:02
  Sabine: So what's then the immediate impact of AI?
• 8:06
  Sabine: What are company secretaries experiencing at the moment?
• 8:11
  Moya Heyhurst: Well, it's interesting.
• 8:12
  Moya Heyhurst: As I said, the demand has changed.
• 8:15
  Moya Heyhurst: If you look at the previous podcast where we looked at it from a board perspective, there that environment is shifting with more data, less time, higher expectations, more interconnected risks, and the board requirements have changed.
• 8:31
  Moya Heyhurst: The directors don't just want somebody who ticks off admin tasks.
• 8:37
  Moya Heyhurst: And therefore, the board secretary role is shifting.
• 8:40
  Moya Heyhurst: It's moving into judgment, strategic thinking, proactive guidance.
• 8:45
  Moya Heyhurst: A lot of this is done from the shadows.
• 8:49
  Moya Heyhurst: But the reality is AI will be able to write a decent set of minutes.
• 8:56
  Moya Heyhurst: And Company secretaries or board secretaries will spend a couple of hours refining versus days refining this stuff.
• 9:04
  Moya Heyhurst: Basic administration, scheduling meetings, pulling packs together, filing forms are going to be done in minutes.
• 9:13
  Moya Heyhurst: The company secretary's role is actually almost, the role that we're seeing emerging now is the chief of staff.
• 9:21
  Moya Heyhurst: That used to be the board secretary's role.
• 9:25
  Moya Heyhurst: At the chair, CEO's right hand, getting stuff done, positioning, timing, linking to strategy, all within, you know, utilizing the corporate knowledge, but doing it safely.
• 9:40
  Sabine: As you know, we are working with company secretaries when we do the board evaluations.
• 9:44
  Sabine: And yeah, you see good ones, you see bad ones, you see mediocre ones.
• 9:49
  Sabine: This element of strategic thinking is I have seen it in the best company secretaries and in really experienced company secretaries.
• 10:00
  Sabine: But it's not something that really comes easy to all of them.
• 10:04
  Sabine: That is very true.
• 10:06
  Moya Heyhurst: But it's the way we train and it's the way we evolve.
• 10:10
  Moya Heyhurst: Company secretaries listen.
• 10:12
  Moya Heyhurst: We are half lawyers, half accountants with a lot of business in between.
• 10:17
  Moya Heyhurst: And it's also about the voice that we have.
• 10:20
  Moya Heyhurst: And that is the challenge that a lot of company secretaries or board secretaries are struggling with.
• 10:24
  Moya Heyhurst: And that's to a degree why the profession, I think, has almost evolved to where it is now, where a lot of company secretaries are not used to talking in a meeting.
• 10:36
  Moya Heyhurst: They're used to quietly influencing from the side, unless there is an absolute, I wouldn't say fatal flaw, but a very key governance matter that is being discussed.
• 10:48
  Moya Heyhurst: Then they might say something.
• 10:51
  Moya Heyhurst: And it's really this change in almost recreating the space that I know we talk about in my previous podcast about unlocking the value with the directors, right?
• 11:05
  Moya Heyhurst: and in the board.
• 11:06
  Moya Heyhurst: This is saying, how do we unlock the value in a core part of the organization that's already got the corporate knowledge, that person's already trained, they already understand how to navigate it.
• 11:20
  Moya Heyhurst: But all this is, is just like AI, changes data into intelligence and surfaces at the right time.
• 11:26
  Moya Heyhurst: We need to surface the role of the board secretary and the company secretary to unlock all of this information that is sitting within them.
• 11:36
  Moya Heyhurst: They are the one person in the organization that is sitting with handfuls of strings.
• 11:42
  Moya Heyhurst: They know where everything is.
• 11:46
  Moya Heyhurst: You know, they know where to find everything and they know the dangers of what is at their fingertips.
• 11:54
  Sabine: And you know, it reminds me, some years ago I was working with a lot of chief financial officers and their role has dramatically changed.
• 12:03
  Sabine: It isn't good enough to basically produce the correct numbers, you need to help the business to understand the strategic implications and hold a conversation with every executive to interpret it and help
• 12:21
  Moya Heyhurst: them.
• 12:21
  Moya Heyhurst: It's that strategic partnership.
• 12:24
  Moya Heyhurst: A lot of the governance professionals have been really pushing to move into this head of corporate governance, head of governance, a governance partner in the business.
• 12:36
  Moya Heyhurst: And the challenge that we've seen is there is this need, but other roles are starting to move into those spaces.
• 12:45
  Moya Heyhurst: And it's it's not deliberate, you know, it's because that's where the need is.
• 12:50
  Moya Heyhurst: You know, it's that insight integration, you know, it's that governance intelligence that the directors and the executives are desperately trying to unlock and get to grips with.
• 13:04
  Moya Heyhurst: They get the business, but it's those connections that are so important.
• 13:09
  Moya Heyhurst: And the challenging thing we are seeing is that legal and the transformation guys, the guys in strategy, they are all stepping into these roles and becoming those governance strategic advisors, and that was always traditionally the co-sex role.
• 13:31
  Moya Heyhurst: And that really just shows the shift that we're seeing on the board now, and the executive, honestly, where they are seeing the value in strategic thinking and digital skills, And as much as they still need administrative tasks, those are the elements that are now more important to the company to make sure that the company remains, well, to be honest, that it's still there tomorrow.
• 13:58
  Sabine: So do you have any practical tip actually how companies across sales who sit now, they listen to this and think, ah, I actually know it.
• 14:08
  Sabine: I wouldn't admit it, but I actually know that I'm not very good at this.
• 14:12
  Sabine: How can they dare to come out more of their comfort zone?
• 14:16
  Sabine: What do they need to do to really go into that space and develop that strategic know-how and really step into this?
• 14:26
  Sabine: What's your advice?
• 14:28
  Moya Heyhurst: You know, the board secretary's environment, it's a small epicenter.
• 14:32
  Moya Heyhurst: Most of us know each other.
• 14:34
  Moya Heyhurst: A lot of company secretaries or board secretaries in London are probably one step removed from each other.
• 14:41
  Moya Heyhurst: And that is, turn to people you know.
• 14:45
  Moya Heyhurst: Turn to your peers.
• 14:47
  Moya Heyhurst: It's not about exposing yourself.
• 14:49
  Moya Heyhurst: But it's doing what the company secretary has always done best, is ask questions, understand the risks and the dynamics and then look internal to the company and figure out how to best help the company to navigate that.
• 15:08
  Moya Heyhurst: So don't say no.
• 15:11
  Moya Heyhurst: That is my biggest thing is do not say no.
• 15:13
  Moya Heyhurst: Ask how.
• 15:16
  Moya Heyhurst: Connect into your organization.
• 15:19
  Moya Heyhurst: You have incredible knowledgeable individuals in the organization with all due respect who love to talk give them the opportunity and you'll collect so much knowledge and data along the way just remember company secretaries don't always need to know how to do something they need to know where the information lies how to connect people how to navigate through it and how to very clearly identify the risks and and find ways through and i suppose you know i was saying earlier that company secretaries or board secretaries have over the years disappeared into the shadows.
• 15:59
  Moya Heyhurst: You've got to step out.
• 16:00
  Moya Heyhurst: You have to step out of the shadows and
• 16:05
  Sabine: you have to make your voice heard.
• 16:07
  Sabine: I mean, it sounds like a fantastic opportunity, particularly for the younger company secretaries who listen to this.
• 16:14
  Sabine: It seems to be an exciting career path.
• 16:17
  Sabine: Absolutely.
• 16:18
  Sabine: With a lot of company
• 16:20
  Moya Heyhurst: secretaries, this is why we decided to do this role.
• 16:22
  Moya Heyhurst: But you know, if we do not grab this with both hands, and this is a very honest and sad thing to say, we will lose everything.
• 16:32
  Moya Heyhurst: If we continue to justify ourselves as administrators and riding a good set of minutes, we will not have a future.
• 16:41
  Moya Heyhurst: But if we remember all the rest of what we have, the institutional wisdom that You know, all of that stuff.
• 16:48
  Moya Heyhurst: It is an exciting, exciting time.
• 16:52
  Sabine: I mean, it seems to be a real shift of mindset that's needed here or that's ongoing, let's face it.
• 16:58
  Sabine: And also capability changes that come in here.
• 17:03
  Sabine: So how can AI already today help a company secretary to do what you describe?
• 17:12
  Moya Heyhurst: It's in the little things.
• 17:13
  Moya Heyhurst: It's not in the big things.
• 17:15
  Moya Heyhurst: It's in the little things.
• 17:17
  Moya Heyhurst: I mean, even now, AI is embedded in a lot of the company secretarial products, the little chatbots that you can ask it, what is the quorum for a meeting?
• 17:28
  Moya Heyhurst: Don't spend hours looking at information and data and trying to draw through a set of articles.
• 17:33
  Moya Heyhurst: Ask your AI.
• 17:35
  Moya Heyhurst: Start using it.
• 17:37
  Moya Heyhurst: We have always led through example.
• 17:39
  Moya Heyhurst: That's how we got the board portal software into the companies is we learned how to use it.
• 17:45
  Moya Heyhurst: We saw the value and we showed the directors.
• 17:47
  Moya Heyhurst: We have to do the same.
• 17:49
  Moya Heyhurst: So we have to embrace the AI that is in our space before we take AI into the boardroom.
• 17:57
  Sabine: Good point.
• 17:57
  Sabine: Now, we covered a lot from AI to the change of the profession.
• 18:03
  Sabine: Now, what are the key things our listeners should take away from this podcast?
• 18:10
  Moya Heyhurst: Right.
• 18:10
  Moya Heyhurst: The three things.
• 18:11
  Moya Heyhurst: This is always the tough part.
• 18:12
  Moya Heyhurst: This is not a task shift.
• 18:17
  Moya Heyhurst: It's a role shift.
• 18:20
  Moya Heyhurst: So, AI may change how work is done.
• 18:25
  Moya Heyhurst: But the biggest shift is what the board needs.
• 18:29
  Moya Heyhurst: Not execution, but insight, interpretation, and integration, which is what COSECs have always done so well.
• 18:40
  Moya Heyhurst: So the role needs to evolve in purpose, not just process.
• 18:48
  Moya Heyhurst: That's number one.
• 18:48
  Moya Heyhurst: Number two, as I said just now, the board secretary has got to step forward.
• 18:55
  Moya Heyhurst: Because if they don't, someone else will.
• 18:59
  Moya Heyhurst: It's not a competition, but it's because it's a necessity.
• 19:04
  Moya Heyhurst: Directors and executives are already turning to others because that's the kind of support they need.
• 19:10
  Moya Heyhurst: So the opportunity is still open, but beware that window is narrowing.
• 19:17
  Moya Heyhurst: Okay.
• 19:18
  Moya Heyhurst: Third one.
• 19:19
  Moya Heyhurst: As you said, you know, the change for new company secretaries coming in.
• 19:23
  Moya Heyhurst: I honestly think the profession is ready for this.
• 19:26
  Moya Heyhurst: Honestly, honestly do.
• 19:28
  Moya Heyhurst: But we need to be intentional and the other listeners on this podcast who are not company secretaries or board secretaries, you need to be our champions.
• 19:39
  Moya Heyhurst: You know, we have to be able to show judgment, trust and show that we understand the boards that rely on us.
• 19:48
  Moya Heyhurst: but we have to stay central and we have to embrace these new capabilities.
• 19:54
  Moya Heyhurst: We've got to become digitally fluent, interpret data, re-look at governance design, and really take on that mindset of strategic enablement.
• 20:06
  Moya Heyhurst: So it's really the strategic element rather than process that we have to actively consider.
• 20:15
  Moya Heyhurst: So those are my three, as you said, There is an awful lot we've been through and oh my goodness, there's so much more to talk about, which I think we'll do in future podcasts.
• 20:25
  Moya Heyhurst: But today is the call.
• 20:27
  Moya Heyhurst: Do something about it or someone else will.
• 20:29
  Moya Heyhurst: Make it an amazing role for yourself or decide to do something completely different because those are going to be your options.
• 20:37
  Sabine: Moja, thank you so much for a very insightful episode.
• 20:41
  Sabine: Thank you.
• 20:42
  Sabine: Thank you, Sabine.
• 20:43
  Sabine: I hope it's been helpful.
• 20:44
  Sabine: Thank you for listening to the Better Boards podcast series.
• 20:48
  Sabine: If you have any thoughts on this episode, if you would like to see that we cover a specific topic, or if you would like to step forward yourself and contribute, get in touch.
• 21:00
  Sabine: Also, you know, we do board evaluations.
• 21:02
  Sabine: If you would like to hear about what we do to support company secretaries in the changing role we discussed, hey, come to our website, press the book a demo button and let's have a little chat.
• 21:15
  Sabine: I'm very much looking forward to hearing from you.
• 21:18
  Sabine: Hope you enjoy the series and keep being tuned in.