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Author Talk—Writing a Book is Only Step One · Reality Writes

0:05
Ellie Alexander: Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of Reality Writes.
0:09
Ellie Alexander: I am author Ellie Alexander.
0:11
Ellie Alexander: This is the podcast where we talk about all things writer-ish, bookish, and we feel about the back the curtain and give you a taste of what it's like to live the writing and publishing life.
0:21
Ellie Alexander: And I'm here with the tech guy.
0:24
Tech Guy: Hello, hello.
0:25
Tech Guy: Uh, today we're going to be talking about one of my favorite subjects, which is marketing.
0:31
Ellie Alexander: Do-do-do.
0:34
Tech Guy: And other related topics uh that have to do with the writer life.
0:39
Ellie Alexander: That's right, exactly.
0:41
Ellie Alexander: And uh it's really timely because I have a new book that will be coming out the same week as this podcast, A Fall to Remember.
0:49
Ellie Alexander: It's a cozy rom-com.
0:50
Ellie Alexander: And the whole concept of this particular episode that we want to dive into, especially as it relates to writers and marketing, is that writing the book is always just the first part.
1:02
Ellie Alexander: It is a giant accomplishment.
1:03
Ellie Alexander: So don't get me wrong, darlings.
1:05
Ellie Alexander: If you've written a book, like you should be doing all the things to celebrate.
1:09
Ellie Alexander: However, then the real work begins.
1:12
Tech Guy: That's right.
1:13
Tech Guy: And there's a lot of paths to publication.
1:17
Tech Guy: So they all have their ups and downs, they all have their pros and cons.
1:22
Tech Guy: And you're gonna have to find what works best for you.
1:26
Tech Guy: Uh and and this is this topic, I guess, is born out of a number of conversations that both you and I have on an ongoing basis with people as we talk about the writing life.
1:40
Tech Guy: And so it'll be interesting to dive into some of the specifics and just talk about the reality of the situation and what writers will face as they move forward with publishing and then marketing the book that has been published.
1:57
Ellie Alexander: Yes, exactly.
1:58
Ellie Alexander: Marketing is as much work as it is to write the book.
2:02
Ellie Alexander: And I know for a lot of darlings, like that is not your first instinct or skill set.
2:07
Ellie Alexander: So it can be really terrifying to figure out like, how do I carve out my place in the world when it comes to books?
2:14
Ellie Alexander: And the other sad reality is you do have to market your book no matter your path to publication, which is what we're really gonna dive into.
2:21
Ellie Alexander: In fact, we're gonna do a future episode about the different paths to publication and the pros and cons of those.
2:27
Ellie Alexander: But today we're really gonna talk about marketing and where, when, why, how, all the things.
2:34
Tech Guy: That's right.
2:34
Tech Guy: And I think we should approach it from the standpoint of maybe dispelling some of the myths that are out there about what it means to have to market your book as an author, or whether or not you even have to market your book as an author.
2:50
Tech Guy: I think most people understand that you do have to do it, but the myths really are surrounding what everyone else is going to do or not do to help you do the marketing of your book.
3:02
Ellie Alexander: Yes.
3:03
Ellie Alexander: And okay, so if we're gonna just dive right in and let's talk about traditional publishing for starters, and I've talked about this on so many occasions, but I do think that there is a pervasive myth that once you have a publishing contract, that you can kind of brush your hands off and just go start in the next book and not have to think about the book that you just wrote and worked so hard to make as beautiful as you could and get a publishing deal.
3:30
Ellie Alexander: This concept that limos are going to pull up in front of your house and they'll have champagne and caviar waiting for you, and they'll whisk you off from one location to another where there will be hundreds of readers packed into a room waiting to adore you and fawn over you and tell you how wonderful your writing is.
3:48
Ellie Alexander: That does not happen, my friends.
3:51
Ellie Alexander: I mean, maybe it once in a blue moon, but that's let's just not say that's the norm in any way, shape, or form.
3:57
Tech Guy: Yeah.
3:57
Tech Guy: Well, and to take a step back for a second, this is not to say that you might not write the next great book that just skyrockets to fame right out of the gates.
4:08
Tech Guy: That does happen.
4:09
Ellie Alexander: It does.
4:10
Tech Guy: To very few people, but it does happen.
4:13
Tech Guy: And even a lot of those books start out very small and take a long time, a lot of effort into the things we're going to talk about before they really take off, too.
4:23
Tech Guy: So uh we this is not a doom and gloom episode where we're gonna tell you that all you have to do is work, work, work, work, work.
4:31
Tech Guy: But we it is important that when I think anyway, when people are approaching a new career, new hobby, whatever, that they understand what needs to go into it, and because there's a lot of bad information out there.
4:45
Tech Guy: And it is something that's in particular with writing, that uh you know, so many people do assume that they're going to get that publishing contract with a traditional publisher, and then it's gonna be all limousines and caviar from that point forward.
5:02
Ellie Alexander: No, and I'm always surprised, even with how much that I've talked about this, and we've covered this on previous podcasts, that when I'm working with coaching clients, there is still this myth that people are holding on to, like, okay, I know, I know it's not gonna be limos and caviar and champagne, but they're good, the publishing house is still gonna do the lion's share of the work for you.
5:24
Ellie Alexander: And my talking point to new writers is regardless of your past publication, whether you're indie, whether you're hybrid, whether you're traditional, the onus is on you as an author to build your audience and readership and or come into a publishing contract with a readership, which can happen sometimes too.
5:42
Ellie Alexander: And, you know, case in point, there have been a lot of successful books that those writers have maybe published themselves initially and built up a strong loyal following.
5:53
Ellie Alexander: I'm thinking like the dungeons, right?
5:56
Ellie Alexander: Yeah.
5:57
Ellie Alexander: Carl, like that was all Indy published.
6:01
Ellie Alexander: And then he built his audience and a publishing house came to him.
6:04
Ellie Alexander: So that's happening in the market space, certainly.
6:06
Ellie Alexander: Um, if you have a large following, especially if you're writing something that's nonfiction and you're an expert in that world and you have people who are already interested in learning your expertise and knowledge knowledge, like that can translate over.
6:20
Ellie Alexander: But the takeaway I want you to have is that you, as the writer, are going to be responsible for finding your readers.
6:29
Tech Guy: Definitely.
6:29
Tech Guy: And you're going to have a team of people at the publisher.
6:34
Tech Guy: If if you go the traditional route, you will have a team of people who are responsible for your book and ultimately they do want to see it sell well too.
6:43
Tech Guy: You just need to understand that they probably have a hundred other authors lined up right behind you, and they have to do the same exact thing for all of their books as well.
6:55
Tech Guy: And so if you can imagine that somebody has a limited capacity, uh an ability to market things throughout the week, and they've got to divide that up by a hundred authors now, suddenly, you're getting, you know, 20 minutes of their time a week, maybe.
7:13
Tech Guy: I, you know, and it's not going to add up to thousands and thousands of sales like you will want it to initially.
7:21
Tech Guy: The one thing I I will say that traditional publishers do, and and maybe you could talk a little bit about this, is they are able to get your book noticed.
7:31
Tech Guy: You know, they're they're they're able to get you listed in places that that may be harder for you to do on the indie side.
7:39
Tech Guy: So there are advantages for sure, but I just don't think that there is quite the level of attention and success just due to sheer volume alone.
7:52
Ellie Alexander: Right.
7:52
Ellie Alexander: The publicist at the how big houses, they're working on, as you said, dozens of books at a time.
7:58
Ellie Alexander: And so they have fantastic context.
8:00
Ellie Alexander: We can dive into a little bit of like what some of the pros are in terms of what a traditional publishing contract might offer you as a new writer.
8:08
Ellie Alexander: And that would be things like obviously distribution.
8:11
Ellie Alexander: So the publishing houses have teams that have built relationships with indie booksellers and bookstores.
8:17
Ellie Alexander: And so visibility is key, right?
8:20
Ellie Alexander: Because your book will be potentially in bookstores.
8:23
Ellie Alexander: And maybe there's some kind of front of front-of-store display that gets added to that, or they're sending advanced reader copies out to their list, not only of booksellers and librarians, but early reviewers.
8:36
Ellie Alexander: They're putting the book up on NetGalley for early reviews.
8:39
Ellie Alexander: So you're not having to A, just do the process of uploading it and finding reviewers.
8:45
Ellie Alexander: The publishing house is coming in with a team of people who are like, oh, this is a mystery.
8:49
Ellie Alexander: So we're gonna push this out to all of our mystery reviewers.
8:53
Ellie Alexander: They are also able then to potentially submit your book for trade reviews.
8:59
Ellie Alexander: So like Mystery Scene Magazine or Kirkus or any of the big publications, which is a lot harder to do if you are published independently.
9:08
Ellie Alexander: A lot of those trade magazines have had policies where they don't accept indie solicitation.
9:14
Ellie Alexander: So that's like a barrier to even being able to have a trade review.
9:18
Ellie Alexander: And then of course they're gonna, they're gonna help brandstorm.
9:20
Ellie Alexander: Like I remember early on in my writing career, my publicist, like one of the conversations you have when you fill out an intake form is like, okay, well, what part of the country are you from?
9:30
Ellie Alexander: Do you already have bookstore connections?
9:32
Ellie Alexander: Do you have library connections?
9:34
Ellie Alexander: Where are you traveling?
9:35
Ellie Alexander: Are you going anywhere on vacation over the next six months?
9:38
Ellie Alexander: Do you have family in other locations?
9:41
Ellie Alexander: And then let's say that you and I were gonna go to California for a weekend and visit my brother and sister-in-law.
9:48
Ellie Alexander: My publicist would then arrange for me while we were coming here to pop into a local bookstore or Barnes and Noble and sign stock or do an event.
9:57
Ellie Alexander: So, yes, there are so many things, especially as a new author, that they definitely help with, but we have to break this perception that that translates into you as the author as doing no work.
10:08
Ellie Alexander: And also, if you were paying attention there, I I embedded a little clue for you, darlings.
10:14
Ellie Alexander: We are paying for that travel too.
10:16
Ellie Alexander: The publisher is not paying to send you to all of these places.
10:20
Tech Guy: It is funny, and we've talked about this a lot, you and you and I together, that um anytime I have a conversation with anybody at work, uh at my job uh that that does not know you, and I tell them, oh, you're an author, and the one of the for inevitably one of the first things that people always say to me is, oh, it must be so nice to get to go on all those trips with her.
10:46
Tech Guy: And I it confuses me every time because I'm like, Well, yeah, I mean, we take vacations every once in a while.
10:52
Tech Guy: They're like, no, all the all the book trips.
10:54
Tech Guy: And I'm like, you know, I don't have my bleep button available right now, but I'm like, what the what are you talking about?
11:02
Tech Guy: Like all the book trips that that we go on.
11:06
Tech Guy: We do go on a lot of book trips, but they they're saying it in the context of like, it must be so nice because the publisher's sending you everywhere, and I just get to tag along.
11:15
Tech Guy: And somehow they think in their minds, the publisher was also paying for me to go on these trips.
11:21
Tech Guy: And I'm like, why would they pay for me to go on these trips, right?
11:25
Ellie Alexander: That's how business works, right?
11:27
Ellie Alexander: When I when I tag along with the business trip for you, the your company is like, oh yes, your wife's coming, great.
11:33
Ellie Alexander: Let me put her bill too.
11:34
Ellie Alexander: Right.
11:34
Ellie Alexander: And I do think this tracks back because writing is creative, that we have this in the zeitgeist, this idea then that it's not a business.
11:43
Ellie Alexander: And at the end of the day, publishing is a business.
11:45
Ellie Alexander: Publishing is certainly a business for the big publishing houses.
11:48
Ellie Alexander: It's also a business if you're publishing independently.
11:51
Ellie Alexander: And your goal is to build a career as a writer.
11:55
Ellie Alexander: If your goal is to write a book and publish that book and share that book, you can disregard all of the things that we're going to talk about today because I'm not talking about that.
12:04
Ellie Alexander: I'm talking about writers or darlings out there who might aspire to say, I want to build a long-term career as a writer.
12:11
Ellie Alexander: And one of the best pieces of advice that I got early on was from my agent.
12:16
Ellie Alexander: And he was like, it's a long game.
12:18
Ellie Alexander: It's about shelf space, it's about consistently showing up, writing well, obviously.
12:24
Ellie Alexander: If we're talking about series writing, writing well and writing quickly, because having um, you know, some sort of pipeline of books coming is also a way that you potentially bring in more readers.
12:36
Ellie Alexander: Uh, but yeah, it's not usually overnight success.
12:40
Ellie Alexander: That can happen, but that is not the normal path.
12:44
Tech Guy: Right, right.
12:45
Tech Guy: It it is not.
12:46
Tech Guy: And it and it has taken a long time to build your career, your writing career to the point that you're at right now.
12:55
Tech Guy: And it's taken a lot of effort, it's taken a lot of miles on our cars.
13:00
Tech Guy: Yes.
13:00
Tech Guy: But I I would say that not having your travel paid for should not, if you have, if, if this is your dream to have a writing career and everything, I I would say that that is one important thing as an author, is the travel piece.
13:20
Tech Guy: And it doesn't need to be far, but just developing relationships with indie bookstores, with the with indie booksellers, is so important, especially early on, to to get out there and and establish some real relationships.
13:36
Tech Guy: And and that helps you.
13:38
Tech Guy: I and I'm going to go back to your initial point, which is I think the biggest takeaway from all of this is that as an author, it is your responsibility to build and grow that audience.
13:51
Tech Guy: Like that is your primary goal.
13:54
Tech Guy: Uh, and no amount of help from the publisher is going to be as effective as you just bringing your authentic self and establishing those relationships and building and growing that community of people who want to not only read your books, but interact with you just as a person because you have shown interest in them and you've you're generating content that they're interested in, and and you just get to build this great community of readers.
14:25
Ellie Alexander: Yeah, so let's talk about that.
14:27
Ellie Alexander: And uh part of this episode is about dispelling mist and then giving you a sense of what that reality is like.
14:32
Ellie Alexander: Okay, so it's unlikely straight out of the gate that you get a book deal and your publisher is gonna send you all over the country to book signings.
14:40
Ellie Alexander: What is likely though is, as I mentioned, maybe they're gonna help that.
14:44
Ellie Alexander: So to your point, if you're going on a road trip or you know you can drive two hours to a bookstore or a library, you're gonna reach out to your publicist and say, hey, let's let's plan a little tour like within my state or within, you know, however far you can drive.
14:58
Ellie Alexander: So you don't even have to get a hotel that night.
15:01
Ellie Alexander: Maybe you go and you do two or three stops along the way, or you break it up over the course of a weekend and you use the support at the publishing house to help you make those connections initially with booksellers or librarians that you might not have.
15:15
Ellie Alexander: Now, if your path to publication is indie, you can do the same kind of thing.
15:20
Ellie Alexander: You're just gonna have to be the one that does the legwork to reach out to the bookstore and say, hey, I'm gonna be in your area.
15:26
Ellie Alexander: I just wrote this book.
15:27
Ellie Alexander: I think it will appeal to this readership.
15:30
Ellie Alexander: And I would love to do some kind of pop-up signing or event at the store.
15:34
Ellie Alexander: Now, here's another critical thing.
15:37
Ellie Alexander: And um, I get this a lot with new writers that I'm coaching.
15:40
Ellie Alexander: I think the expectation then is you, as the new writer, come to the bookstore, you show up and you think that the bookstore is going to be packed with readers.
15:50
Ellie Alexander: But readers don't know you yet.
15:52
Ellie Alexander: The bookstore doesn't know you yet.
15:54
Ellie Alexander: Yes, like the bookstore or library is probably doing marketing and they're sending it out to their newsletter.
15:59
Ellie Alexander: But at that point in time, you're still an unknown.
16:02
Ellie Alexander: I had so many events that I did early on where no one showed, or one person showed.
16:08
Ellie Alexander: And I just slowly built relationships one by one with whoever came because I'm thinking, oh my goodness, there's one person at this event that has read my book.
16:17
Ellie Alexander: Incredible.
16:19
Ellie Alexander: Like I couldn't imagine that a stranger would ever read my book.
16:22
Ellie Alexander: So I'm gonna make that connection.
16:23
Ellie Alexander: But not only do you need to be the one that is footing the bill to do the travel, but the onus is also on you to try to get people there.
16:32
Ellie Alexander: So you have to sort of think creatively about like, where can I go where I might be able to bring readers into the bookstore.
16:40
Tech Guy: Right.
16:40
Tech Guy: And that's such an important point with the low attendance early on.
16:45
Tech Guy: Whatever you do as a writer, and I say this from experience, not that I have done it, but I've watched Ellie do it.
16:52
Tech Guy: And it is so absolutely important that you not make it an awkward experience for the people that took the time to show up.
17:00
Tech Guy: Use it as an opportunity.
17:02
Tech Guy: This is somebody who showed up and now they get your full attention, right?
17:06
Tech Guy: It's three or four people or one person in that has happened too.
17:12
Tech Guy: But three or four people show up, give them the time of their life.
17:15
Tech Guy: Like this is they they have an all-access pass to you as an author, make it fun for them, and they will be readers for life.
17:24
Ellie Alexander: Yes, yes.
17:25
Ellie Alexander: And it's so unfair if then you are uncomfortable and you you show up and you think, oh, I was anticipating that we were going to have a crowd of a hundred people.
17:33
Ellie Alexander: And then that energy comes off to the people who, to your point, did take the time to show up for you.
17:39
Ellie Alexander: So yeah, thinking creatively about wow, do I have family in this place?
17:43
Ellie Alexander: Do I have a group of friends from high school or college that I might be able to wrangle to like use your personal connections, especially at the beginning?
17:50
Ellie Alexander: Now, of course, don't hound people and make it a horrible experience for your friends and family, but also thinking creatively about what do you have to offer the bookstore.
17:59
Ellie Alexander: Early on, I was like, well, gosh, I write a bake shop mystery series.
18:03
Ellie Alexander: Like we could do recipes, we could bring in local bakers, I could highlight bakers, and when readers come, they could get free tastes of treats.
18:12
Ellie Alexander: And maybe then that baker could bring stuff to sell.
18:15
Ellie Alexander: Like, you know, trying to think about any way that you can take the concept of your book and build a bigger world around it too.
18:22
Tech Guy: Absolutely.
18:23
Tech Guy: And feed two birds with one scone, uh, to use the more positive version of that saying.
18:29
Tech Guy: Use it as an opportunity to grow that relationship with that any bookstore.
18:33
Tech Guy: Use your connections, do the marketing to bring in your own audience, especially if you can find people who aren't familiar with that store to now come to that store.
18:43
Tech Guy: That's going to be a bookseller that is going to be a partner for life because you are bringing people into their store who are not only going to buy your books, they're going to buy other authors' books.
18:54
Tech Guy: And everybody wins in that scenario.
18:57
Ellie Alexander: And that's always one of my talking points at any book event that I do is I don't care if you buy my book, but please support the store because the store is supporting us by physically having real in-person events.
19:09
Ellie Alexander: And that's been true since the beginning.
19:10
Ellie Alexander: Okay, so to dovetail on this, the other thing that comes up often, well, actually, let me backtrack just for a second and say there are then points in your career.
19:19
Ellie Alexander: Like I remember the first time in my career where my publisher paid for me to go to Murder by the Book.
19:25
Ellie Alexander: So they arranged my travel, they bought my plane ticket to go, they put me up for a hotel for the night.
19:31
Ellie Alexander: Um, so there are points in time where then that might start to happen.
19:36
Ellie Alexander: And that's gonna then help you expand your reach too.
19:39
Ellie Alexander: Okay, but the other thing that comes up a lot is this idea of conferences and conventions.
19:45
Ellie Alexander: And darlings, if you're if you're a reader, you I'm sure have seen that there are obviously tons of bookish conventions and conferences all over the United States.
19:58
Ellie Alexander: Well, again, if we backtrack to when um my first Meg Reed series came out, that was my very first mystery that was published.
20:05
Ellie Alexander: My publicist was like, hey, we would really love for you to go to Malice Domestic, Left Coast Crime, and BoucherCon this first year.
20:15
Ellie Alexander: So you can really start to make some connections in the mystery world too.
20:18
Ellie Alexander: And the novice newbie that I was, I was like, sure, great.
20:22
Ellie Alexander: Yeah, like I'll sign up for all of those.
20:24
Ellie Alexander: Okay, well, what I didn't know at the time is they weren't offering to pay for me to go to those.
20:29
Ellie Alexander: This is still on you as the author.
20:31
Ellie Alexander: So you are buying your ticket to that conference, you're buying your flight or taking a drive or a train, depending on where that conference is in relation to where you live.
20:40
Ellie Alexander: You're paying for the hotel and food and all of that travel to attend these conferences and conventions.
20:46
Ellie Alexander: So when you see, you know, panels and all these events and activities that are going on at these big conferences, those writers are also paying to attend.
20:57
Tech Guy: Totally.
20:58
Tech Guy: Yeah.
20:58
Tech Guy: It's we would like you to go to these conferences, and here's the bad news.
21:04
Ellie Alexander: Yeah.
21:05
Tech Guy: That it's gonna cost you some money.
21:07
Tech Guy: Uh, quick aside, uh, just a piece of Reality Writes trivia.
21:12
Tech Guy: Uh, I actually went to murder by the book before Ellie ever did.
21:18
Ellie Alexander: That's true.
21:19
Ellie Alexander: That's right.
21:20
Tech Guy: Yeah.
21:20
Ellie Alexander: Yeah.
21:21
Ellie Alexander: Cause you had a lovely little stack of arcs that you were disseminating on every business trip.
21:26
Tech Guy: Well, hey, there's another there's another tip for writers out there.
21:30
Tech Guy: If you have a spouse, partner, significant other that travels for their job, yeah, or a best friend, whatever, send some arcs with them to wherever they're traveling to and have them stop by indie bookstores and just stop in and see if they would be interested in reading a copy of the art.
21:50
Tech Guy: I did that many, many times while traveling to uh see advertising clients for my agency and it paid off.
21:58
Ellie Alexander: Yeah.
21:59
Ellie Alexander: I remember.
21:59
Ellie Alexander: I sent my dad with a whole stack because he was going to New Zealand.
22:02
Ellie Alexander: So he went to a bunch of New Zealand bookstores.
22:05
Ellie Alexander: I mean, the book was also inspired by my trip to New Zealand.
22:08
Ellie Alexander: So there was a tie-in.
22:09
Ellie Alexander: But yeah, no, absolutely.
22:10
Ellie Alexander: Put your friends and family to work on your behalf for sure.
22:14
Ellie Alexander: If you are an indie author, you are also going to do that same thing in terms of paying to go to a conference and convention.
22:23
Ellie Alexander: The difference with traditional publishing is that it might be that your publicist or somebody on the team at the publishing house is going to make sure that you get on a panel or, you know, have a specific workshop at some of these big conferences.
22:36
Ellie Alexander: There are also publishers and agents who attend, and they might have like parties for the whole list of authors who are there.
22:44
Ellie Alexander: I met like some of my, I was like in Dream Celebrity Location the first year that I went to BoucherCon because it's like, oh my gosh, there's Stu Grafton.
22:51
Ellie Alexander: Oh my gosh, I'm having dinner next to Joanne Fluke.
22:53
Ellie Alexander: Like, oh, so it's it's definitely worth the experience.
22:56
Ellie Alexander: It's an investment in your career.
22:58
Ellie Alexander: Everything that we're talking about today is what you would do if you were building any other business.
23:03
Ellie Alexander: You have to invest in that business.
23:05
Ellie Alexander: As an indie author, you also open yourself up then to a lot of like bookish cons and festivals, uh, even local community events where maybe you're paying for a table and then you're going and you're hand selling your books yourself.
23:22
Ellie Alexander: So another point of differentiation that I think a lot of writers and readers might not know is for most traditional publishing contracts, I can't sell my books.
23:32
Ellie Alexander: I'm not allowed to sell my books myself.
23:35
Ellie Alexander: If you're published as an indie author, you can sell those books directly to readers.
23:40
Ellie Alexander: So let's say there's like a holiday festival going on in your town.
23:44
Ellie Alexander: You can get a booth at that festival and deck it all out around your theme and hand sell your books to anyone who's at that festival.
23:54
Ellie Alexander: That's a great tool and visibility for you.
23:57
Ellie Alexander: Now, on the flip side, it might be a little bit more challenging if we go back to that bookstore piece because you're gonna have to work out some sort of commission or sales rate for the bookstore because bookstores are used to buying directly from distributors and the publishing houses.
24:13
Ellie Alexander: So there's a lot of the back-end piece that comes into play.
24:16
Tech Guy: Although if you are a traditionally published author, that goes back to my point originally of trying to develop those really tight indie bookstore relationships, because then when you do have events like that, you can lean on that partnership to have them at whatever event, you know, selling your books.
24:36
Ellie Alexander: Exactly.
24:36
Ellie Alexander: Yeah, for sure.
24:37
Ellie Alexander: I had that early on with uh vintage books in particular.
24:40
Ellie Alexander: And we went to some wild places.
24:42
Ellie Alexander: In fact, we did an episode about this a while back, I know, that kind of broke down some of the things.
24:48
Ellie Alexander: But I mean, I've I've done book signings at lingerie shops, I've done book signings at a fair next to pigs, like you name it, I've done it.
24:58
Ellie Alexander: I would show up.
24:59
Ellie Alexander: And I think that's the thing.
25:00
Ellie Alexander: Like, you show up because it's an opportunity for you to get FaceTime with readers.
25:07
Ellie Alexander: One of my good friends who's indie published in my uh writers' group always talks about the fact that she loves doing fairs and festivals because she's also able to really gauge like her pitch and start to know, like, oh, okay, like that's what really pulled a reader in when I was able to say this little thing.
25:26
Ellie Alexander: Then I started to draw readers in and go, oh, okay, you like that kind of book, me too.
25:30
Ellie Alexander: So it's a great way to make connections too.
25:32
Ellie Alexander: Being next to the pigs was not quite as enjoyable as like, you know, delicious cupcakes and chocolate fondue or whatever, but yeah, what the heck?
25:41
Tech Guy: I I went to the pig one, but I didn't get to go to the lingerie shop signing.
25:46
Tech Guy: So what is going on?
25:47
Ellie Alexander: What is going on?
25:48
Ellie Alexander: Come on.
25:50
Tech Guy: Um, I would say though, that that is a good point.
25:53
Tech Guy: And it goes back to the low attendance book talks early on, the starting out.
25:59
Tech Guy: Uh you should go into everything, anything you're doing for marketing, even if you consider it a success or failure, the end result a success or a failure, make sure that you're using those learnings and use it as practice runs.
26:14
Tech Guy: You know, so when you're giving a book talk, if two people show up, give the book talk.
26:18
Tech Guy: Don't say, Oh, only two people showed up.
26:22
Tech Guy: Now I'm not going to do this.
26:23
Tech Guy: Use this as an opportunity to really hone in that that talk and that messaging and everything.
26:30
Tech Guy: So the next time when you go and 50, 75 people show up, you're comfortable and you understand like where maybe things are a little slow and where you should ask for questions and get you know audience participation to keep the flow going and everything.
26:47
Tech Guy: Just constantly use these opportunities as practice.
26:51
Ellie Alexander: Okay, so that's a great segue into the next thing that I wanted to talk about, which is the responsibility falls on you in terms of how you're going to show up for readers.
27:01
Ellie Alexander: And I think there's this false sense of, oh, okay, well, once I have a bookstore event or a library event and I've signed up for that and I show up, I maybe am just gonna read a passage from my book and open it up for readers to ask me questions.
27:19
Ellie Alexander: Right.
27:20
Ellie Alexander: I mean, we know even um this deep into my career and with hosting the Ashland Mystery Fest.
27:25
Ellie Alexander: And I should say the Ashland Mystery Fest is different because it's a reader-focused festival.
27:30
Ellie Alexander: So the idea is that it's meant for readers to be fully immersive.
27:34
Ellie Alexander: So this isn't like the big conventions where you're getting hundreds of authors and it's a lot of um obviously like fun content, but also like there's so much there that you can do in terms of career-based paths.
27:46
Ellie Alexander: But even at Ashland Mystery Fest, when you have, you know, this whole incredible group of readers that's hungry for more cozy, like as soon as a panel or an event ends and it's open for questions, there's always dead air immediately.
28:02
Ellie Alexander: Always.
28:03
Ellie Alexander: It never fails.
28:05
Ellie Alexander: Because it's it's intimidating, right?
28:07
Ellie Alexander: As a somebody in the audience, you might you probably have 20 questions.
28:10
Ellie Alexander: I know I feel like this when I'm in an audience, and I'm like, am I gonna be the one that is raising my hand first?
28:16
Tech Guy: Yeah, and and that is actually uh uh going back to my point about using these opportunities as learning experiences and then taking those learnings and like leveling up your game.
28:27
Tech Guy: Now the Ashland Mystery Fest has an MC to make sure that that happens so that like there is that participation.
28:34
Tech Guy: And trust me, if it's quiet and no one's raising their hand, they're going to do it when she is done, like getting everybody jazzed up.
28:44
Ellie Alexander: Yeah, yeah.
28:45
Ellie Alexander: So this would be the same thing as like if you are presenting for work, right?
28:50
Ellie Alexander: That you're not gonna show up to a presentation in front of your colleagues or a client or whoever it's gonna be, and just have maybe like a couple minutes of something prepared and then expect everybody else to ask you questions.
29:05
Ellie Alexander: Part of your marketing plan for showing up for events has to be thinking about like, okay, what are the fun stories that I can tell?
29:12
Ellie Alexander: What are the pitfalls?
29:13
Ellie Alexander: I mean, and this isn't, you don't have to, this is fun, right?
29:16
Ellie Alexander: I love this part of book events.
29:18
Ellie Alexander: I always have too many ideas of like, okay, yes.
29:20
Ellie Alexander: And then that story.
29:21
Ellie Alexander: And if you've ever heard me talk at a book event, I'm always like, because then I want to tell you about, yeah.
29:28
Ellie Alexander: Um, so come prepared for more.
29:30
Tech Guy: Well, and speaking of more, just do more events.
29:33
Tech Guy: Do as many as you have the ability to do.
29:37
Tech Guy: Um, and I know that's easy, easier said than done, but the more events that you do, the easier it will get.
29:45
Tech Guy: Being on camera, for example, uh this is a perfect example, being doing this this podcast, for years you were the only one in front of the camera.
29:55
Tech Guy: I was the I was the tech guy, the the weird voice that would interject every once in a while from behind the camera.
30:01
Tech Guy: And it wasn't until dozens of videos, I would say, that I felt comfortable actually being in front of the camera and and and doing this.
30:10
Tech Guy: And the same goes for giving book talks, because if I go back in time and look, you know, oh yeah 12, 15 years ago in your first book talk versus now, night and day difference.
30:23
Tech Guy: Right.
30:24
Tech Guy: But but the other thing is just content.
30:26
Tech Guy: So, to your point, with all of your stories, you wouldn't have 80% of these stories if you didn't do as many book talks and signings and events and meetups and book clubs and everything that you do.
30:41
Tech Guy: You've built all these relationships and you've you've grown this like library of content that you're able to share with people moving forward.
30:50
Ellie Alexander: That's right.
30:51
Ellie Alexander: Yeah.
30:51
Ellie Alexander: And it's fun.
30:52
Ellie Alexander: I mean, like, it's so great to then just be in space together with other people who love books.
30:57
Ellie Alexander: Again, not just my books, but books in general.
31:00
Ellie Alexander: I think that the first year after I was published, so the first year I was published, I had two series releases.
31:10
Ellie Alexander: So I was getting help from both sets of publicists at two different publishing houses.
31:16
Ellie Alexander: And I was learning a lot in that process in terms of, okay, what are they doing?
31:19
Ellie Alexander: What are my expectations?
31:20
Ellie Alexander: Oh, okay, I'm paying for that.
31:22
Ellie Alexander: Like, how do I prioritize if I have a budget?
31:25
Ellie Alexander: Like which of these conferences I pay to go to.
31:28
Ellie Alexander: I can't do that every year, obviously.
31:31
Ellie Alexander: But like, how do I how do I prioritize our time in terms of travel?
31:35
Ellie Alexander: If we're taking two weeks in the summer and we're gonna do a road trip, okay, well, then it's gonna be a family bookish road trip too, like maximizing my time.
31:44
Ellie Alexander: But the year after that, the second year, I decided I was gonna try to say yes to everything.
31:50
Ellie Alexander: And the lingerie, the pigs.
31:53
Ellie Alexander: Um, it was a year of yes, but it was so important because it really did crack me open to that idea of like, oh no, I there are readers everywhere.
32:01
Ellie Alexander: And if you are showing up and putting yourself out there, you're going to start to slowly build that base and that audience.
32:11
Ellie Alexander: This has come up a lot in the last few weeks because for the last 12, 13 years, I have had mysteries on my mind.
32:21
Ellie Alexander: I like writing mysteries, have slowly over time learned my rhythm and like come up with fun, inventive ideas, some of which have been great, some of which have been total bombs.
32:34
Ellie Alexander: We talked about the fact that we did this campy mystery tour of Ashland ourselves, where we like involved the community and we shared these little like mini mysteries, but they didn't really work.
32:46
Ellie Alexander: Like lots of baking videos over the years.
32:49
Ellie Alexander: Some of them have hit, some of them not so much, but like in the process, it all like feeds my books and my creative energy too.
32:57
Ellie Alexander: But suddenly I'm back in this space where I have a new rom-com coming out.
33:04
Ellie Alexander: It's not murder, it's sweet, it's cozy.
33:06
Ellie Alexander: And I am back to being completely stumped about like, oh, how how do I share with this one with readers?
33:16
Ellie Alexander: Like, how do I mark it?
33:18
Ellie Alexander: It's in the Venn diagram, there are some parts of my readers that are like, oh yeah, well, we'll come over and try this cozy Ellie.
33:26
Ellie Alexander: And then there is a big bunch of readers who are like, I want a body.
33:29
Ellie Alexander: You better give me a bloody knife, or I don't want to read it.
33:33
Ellie Alexander: Like, so yeah, it's really making us think outside of the box again.
33:37
Tech Guy: Absolutely.
33:38
Tech Guy: It's just it's like starting over, honestly.
33:40
Tech Guy: I mean, there are some things that are kind of because it's a book, sure, it's the same in some ways as your cozy mysteries, but because the genre is so different, there's no mystery, there's no murder, there's no suspects, like none of that exists.
33:56
Tech Guy: And from a marketing and and especially like crafting standpoint, I like I can put a skull on anything, and and people love it, right?
34:04
Tech Guy: I just give me a something and I'll put a skull on it, and that's like that's mystery right there, right?
34:10
Tech Guy: Or a magnifying glass.
34:11
Tech Guy: I mean, come on.
34:12
Tech Guy: But that none of that works with uh a cozy rom-com.
34:18
Tech Guy: Um, I don't I'm not sure that putting a skull on some leaves is going to sell a fall to remember to many people.
34:28
Ellie Alexander: I don't think so.
34:29
Ellie Alexander: And then they're gonna read that book and go, why was there a skull on that?
34:32
Tech Guy: Yeah, is that they're gonna be really mad.
34:34
Tech Guy: Where's where's the body tech guy?
34:36
Tech Guy: Where's the body, right?
34:37
Tech Guy: Thanks a lot.
34:38
Tech Guy: Uh-huh.
34:38
Tech Guy: Yeah, yeah.
34:39
Ellie Alexander: Uh-huh.
34:40
Ellie Alexander: Um, but it's a good reminder of, again, for me now, like I'm starting slow because I'm gonna find new readers in the process of doing something that's new to me, too.
34:52
Ellie Alexander: And my expectation has to change, just like my expectations had to change early on when I was like, oh, you know, you're not flying me to those conferences.
35:01
Ellie Alexander: Oh, I pay for that.
35:02
Ellie Alexander: Okay.
35:02
Ellie Alexander: That, you know, I'm gonna slowly start to make connections in that world.
35:09
Ellie Alexander: Um, but it's probably not gonna happen overnight.
35:11
Tech Guy: It's definitely not gonna happen overnight because going back to your original point, it's a long game.
35:16
Tech Guy: And it really does.
35:17
Tech Guy: There are some things.
35:19
Tech Guy: What are some of the saying?
35:21
Tech Guy: Lightning in a bottle, um, you know, things that catch fire.
35:24
Tech Guy: Um and and that's gonna happen.
35:27
Tech Guy: And and you know what?
35:28
Tech Guy: That could happen for you.
35:30
Tech Guy: Like it if you're if you're out there listening, like you, it could absolutely happen for you.
35:35
Tech Guy: Like, do not take this uh in any way, shape, or form to mean that like you don't have a possibility of that happening for you.
35:43
Tech Guy: But the odds are against you from from uh they're just low, right?
35:51
Tech Guy: They're just low because there are so many books and so many authors out there, and it just takes time, time and effort.
35:58
Tech Guy: And if you put in the time and you put in the effort, it will pay off eventually.
36:04
Tech Guy: It really will.
36:06
Ellie Alexander: Yeah, and the other and the last thing I think I would say on this topic too is like no one is gonna love your book, know your book, experience your book more than you, the author.
36:18
Ellie Alexander: And that's such a gift in terms of showing up authentically for any sort of marketing event event, whether that's an in-person signing, a conference, uh, doing fun videos online, sharing with readers, because you intimately know your story, your characters.
36:36
Ellie Alexander: You are the authority on this book.
36:38
Ellie Alexander: So you are the best person to speak to the story, the setting, all of those wonderful things.
36:44
Ellie Alexander: And I think when you can like shift your perspective to that, it really opens you up because as we talked about, it can be intimidating to think like, oh, now I have to go talk about my book in front of other people.
36:56
Ellie Alexander: Like anyone who showed up, whether it's two or two hundred, they're there to hear about your book.
37:01
Ellie Alexander: So what an opportunity for you to get to share something that has been living in your soul in person or on the interwebs.
37:11
Tech Guy: That's that's so so true.
37:13
Tech Guy: You are your book's biggest champion.
37:15
Tech Guy: So and you accomplish something amazing by writing a book.
37:20
Tech Guy: So go out there and tell everybody about it.
37:23
Tech Guy: And be be authentic and build that community and keep putting in the effort.
37:31
Ellie Alexander: Yes, yeah, exactly.
37:32
Ellie Alexander: I think that's what I hope you take away from this episode, darlings.
37:36
Ellie Alexander: Not that it is doom and gloom, but that you are, you know, the captain of your own ship here.
37:42
Ellie Alexander: And so you get to decide like you you might navigate some very still waters early on.
37:47
Ellie Alexander: Maybe you're going over a waterfall at some point in time.
37:50
Ellie Alexander: But like, uh, it's uh these are terrible metaphors.
37:53
Ellie Alexander: Sorry.
37:55
Tech Guy: Watch out for icebergs.
37:56
Tech Guy: Yeah.
37:56
Tech Guy: Watch out for icebergs.
37:58
Ellie Alexander: I don't know, your boat might sink.
37:59
Ellie Alexander: Whoa, there's one off a cliff.
38:01
Ellie Alexander: Here's the mystery writer in me.
38:02
Ellie Alexander: And well, there's a shark that no.
38:04
Ellie Alexander: Um you are in control over uh your own marketing.
38:10
Ellie Alexander: And if you embrace that and have fun with it, you might be surprised at what that opens you up to.
38:18
Tech Guy: Absolutely.
38:19
Tech Guy: All right.
38:20
Tech Guy: Well, that was a lot for today.
38:22
Tech Guy: Uh, but I do want to hear from the writers out there, both current writers and those hoping to become a published author at some point uh during your upcoming future.
38:36
Tech Guy: What are your biggest challenges?
38:38
Tech Guy: Did any of this surprise you?
38:40
Tech Guy: Are there other rumors or myths that you want us to debunk here on Reality ?
38:45
Tech Guy: Let us know in the comments or send us a message.
38:48
Ellie Alexander: Oh, yeah, we love debunking those rumors.
38:51
Ellie Alexander: And uh for the darlings, for the readers out there too, I'd love to hear like what resonates with you with authors.
38:57
Ellie Alexander: Like, what do you love to see?
38:59
Ellie Alexander: Like, what is it that makes you go, oh, I want to know more about that story or that author.
39:03
Tech Guy: Oh, that's actually great.
39:05
Tech Guy: Let's let's hear that.
39:06
Tech Guy: Let's hear that from readers because we'll take those comments and we can put together another episode that will help writers.
39:12
Tech Guy: And everybody wins.
39:14
Tech Guy: Better book talks are better for authors, better for readers, better for bookstores.
39:18
Tech Guy: Yeah.
39:19
Ellie Alexander: Oh, we are doing the real work in the world here.
39:21
Ellie Alexander: Uh solving problems right and left on Reality Writes, darlings.
39:26
Tech Guy: All right.
39:28
Ellie Alexander: Okay.
39:29
Tech Guy: With that, until next time.
39:31
Ellie Alexander: Until next time.