Latest / The Mookse and the Gripes Podcast / Episode 81: Audiobooks

Transcript

Episode 81: Audiobooks · The Mookse and the Gripes Podcast

• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: This is the Books and the Gripes podcast.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, everybody.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: This is Trevor.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: And with his audio on, Paul.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Paul, how are you doing today?
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: I am doing great.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: I have it turned up to 11 today.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Little hint as to what we're talking about.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Not that we've hidden it in the podcast.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I'm doing well.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's Memorial Day weekend here in the United States.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: So we have, you know, three day weekend ahead of us.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_02: Looking good.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: Feels like Christmas.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_02: And somehow this is one of those holidays I always forget about.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so whenever it's like a week or two out, it's like, oh, yeah.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: so it's always a nice surprise and i do i love these monday holidays in the u.s
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: they don't they're just something about having an enjoyable sunday no you're like
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: the office is closed tomorrow i again i know that's not for everybody i'm sorry um
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: but it is for us you know we have a day off a long weekend it's always so nice it
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: is definitely
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I do want to start with a little bit of thanks to a few new Patreon supporters.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: We very much appreciate these, as we've always said.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: And we have some new signups from Sam and from Robin Gustafson.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, Robin, if I'm saying your last name right.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: I did know someone with that last name, and that's how I said it to them.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: I hope that they had corrected me and that was right.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: But when I looked at it, I was like, oh, I don't know.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Gustafson, Robin, and Sam, thank you so much.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: And for the rest of you who would like to support us, again, you can go to Patreon.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: And you can also go to Substack and sign up there.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm more familiar myself with the Patreon system,
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: but I think Substack makes it pretty easy because we do get subscribers there.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: And each of those places give you access immediately to old bonus episodes of the
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: podcast that we have done,
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: as well as give you access to any that come along while you're a subscriber.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: And we tend to try very hard to release our episodes in those two places early, a couple of days early.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: They tend to come out on Tuesday.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think we hit that 90 to 95% of the time.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe not quite.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that that's pretty much our track record.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: If not on the Tuesday, then they do come out early for whatever that's worth.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: But at any rate, those are some great places to support us.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: As well as I understand,
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: and we've never really asked for this,
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: but ratings on your podcast listener apps,
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: like whether you listen on Apple Podcasts,
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: where you...
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: kind of link to iTunes or I don't even know anymore.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Does iTunes still exist?
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: In some version, at least.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: as well as Spotify and the like,
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think that those ratings actually do boost the podcast to new listeners.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: And so I thought, well, there might be some of you who are interested in doing that.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh,
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: we,
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: we ask for,
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: for nice feedback on,
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: on those places if you've got them,
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: but if you absolutely,
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: despise us.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the,
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: and the answer to that is not to simply stop listening,
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: but you have to make sure the world knows.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: I suppose you can go there too, but yeah, we would prefer the good ones, but you know, it is what it is.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: And it's funny because,
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: like you said,
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_02: we don't ask for it often,
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: but every once in a while I'll look specifically on Apple and it's always nice to
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: see new ratings and we get some great comments.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_02: But the other day,
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: and I was trying to find it just now,
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_02: now I can't find it,
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'll have to follow up,
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_02: but I stumbled onto a whole trove of comments and I shared it with you.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: And it was on some website that I don't even know what it was,
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: if it was like a compiler or something,
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_02: but we ended up having like,
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: I would say several dozen comments that I'd never even seen before.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_02: So we never mentioned those,
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: but if you're out there listening,
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: whether you've left a comment in the past on Apple or elsewhere,
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: thank you so much.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's so amazing to me.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_02: I know I say this a lot, but it blows my mind every time just
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: all these friends and people out there listening to us and leaving such kind and thoughtful feedback.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: So like you said,
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm glad you mentioned that because no obligation,
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: but it's really fun if people feel so inclined and it does give us a little boost.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: Indeed.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: And we did also get a little bit of fun listener interaction over the last week as
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: we prepare for our summer book club.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Paul, the voting is over.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: Did you cheat and look this morning?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: I did.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: I did too.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: No,
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: first thing,
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: I've been following it,
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: probably sadly too often,
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: but it's been really fun to watch.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a horse race,
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: see one pull ahead for a little while and then the other one comes back.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: It really was.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: It was never a big contest between the four of them.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Two shot up quite quickly.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: But for those who are like, what are they talking about?
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: Every year for the last...
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: This will be our third year, so it's a tradition now.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's right, officially.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: We do a Mooks and Gripes Summer Book Club.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: I was an idiot and put Summer Book Club 2025 on the Twitter poll,
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: but someone had already voted,
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: so I didn't want to delete it.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I had to see that every time that I logged in and looked at the poll and tried
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: to promote the poll and do everything.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Don't you love those kind of things?
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, I loved it.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: I thought it was awesome.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: But because William Trevor has always been on the list in the past,
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: but had never won,
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: and we wanted to have an excuse to read one of his novels this summer,
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: we made them all William Trevor novels.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so we had The Children of Denmouth from the 1970s,
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: Fools of Fortune from the 1980s,
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: Felicia's Journey from the 1990s,
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: and The Story of Lucy Galt from the early 2000s.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: Fools of Fortune and the story of Lucy Galt kind of went back and forth, back and forth.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll be honest,
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a little bit surprised at who ended up winning because usually Dorian and
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Francis from One Bright Book podcast...
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, they get out the vote for their choice and it's fun when they're against each other a little bit.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's not fun for them.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they've had to deal with, you know, healing of relationships over the last year or two.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Counseling.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, but yeah.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's, it's, it could be rough on, on, on their side.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: their winner was in the lead for some time,
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: but then sneaking in and then,
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: and holding the landing,
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: the story of Lucy Galt is the winner with 33% of the vote to Fools of Fortunes,
• 7:02
  31%.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: And then both of the other two each got, um, 18%.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: So it was actually really even across the board because the two runners up were
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: kind of,
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_02: competing against themselves a little bit and they stayed close and then the other two.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it was really fun.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: So that'll be a lot of fun.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: As we've said, we're going to be doing the discussion on August 8th.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: That'll be the release date of our episode on the Summer Book Club.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: But folks who are interested in getting a hold of the book, you now have a couple of months to read it.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it is The Story of Lucy Galt, widely available.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think this is one that, you know, is one of his bigger titles.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: I see it even in bookstores today, I feel.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: That should be widely available.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Join in and we'll be reading it over the next couple of months ourselves.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: This is one I've never read.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: I've had it for years and years and years.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: I actually think I've had a couple of editions even.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: I bought it when it came out, but then
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: A couple of years ago, it was reissued and it looked better.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I got a hold of that one too.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I'm excited for this.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks everybody for voting and provide your thoughts as you go through the Summer Book Club.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to be a lot of fun.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: Kim McNeil, we're going to need that hashtag stat.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then you found a little bit of listener feedback.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to share that?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: So as regular listeners know, our last episode was entitled Facing the Void.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: And we kind of had fun with the idea of both sometimes the intimidation,
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_02: but more often kind of the promise of finishing a really big book or a group read
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: or something that's taken up a lot of your time and then just kind of
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: Now what?
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that feeling, like I said, sometimes positive for some people, I think negative.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: And we got some really fun feedback because I had,
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: we both posted stuff about that,
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_02: when the episode came out.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so we asked people, what do they do when they're facing the void?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_02: And so we got a few fun comments from one was from Mary Cupcake1234,
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: who's somebody that we've both been connected with online for decades.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_02: a long time and she said i panic these days with a laughing face so i guess she
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_02: maybe doesn't enjoy that part of the process um and then i'm gonna probably i'm
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: gonna try to say this right belaza.mjs says invariably when i finish something on
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_02: the quote heavy side like the international booker prize long list i reach for a
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_02: thriller
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: The only problem is that sometimes they aren't all that thrilling.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, that is a problem.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: I put a lot of weight on these books, I think, sometimes, you know, for good reason.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: No,
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: but I do like that idea of sometimes when you're,
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: if and when we do a reading slump episode someday,
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_02: that idea of changing it up a little bit and trying something different,
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: that is a good way to kind of,
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: break out of some of these potential slumps or tough periods.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: I liked a bit of feedback I got on Blue Sky from Cameron is the listener's name.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: And he said, I love this phase.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: I call it book flirting.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: I carry around two or three books and read some bits of them until I land on one.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought that is, you know, facing the void versus book flirting.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: But I like both images, and I really liked the book flirting phase of getting a bunch of books out.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: I used to do this.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: When I'd finish a book,
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'd get out five or six books and put them out and ask my wife,
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: which one should I read next?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't done that in a while,
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: but that was kind of a fun way to keep it random and maybe not put so much pressure
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: on people.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: what book I'm going to read next.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Cause you know, I didn't choose it.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no, I do like that idea.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_02: I've seen people even do that on,
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: on social media,
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: like post a small stack and say,
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: what should I read next?
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's kind of fun.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: Cause it's a controlled environment, but there's still a little bit of serendipity to it.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I like that.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: All right, Paul.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's all of the preliminary stuff that we had this morning.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: Usually we're a good hour and a half into it by now, I feel like.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: But what have you been reading?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_02: So in our last episode,
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: I talked about how I wanted to kind of have a period of time where I focus more on
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_02: maybe one single book at a time.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I've done that for the most part, although it might be changing already.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's been two weeks.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: You did send two titles to me on Twitter or on Instagram when I asked, what are you reading?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: But if we're looking back at what I have been reading the last couple of weeks,
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: so I finished up Sebald's Rings of Saturn,
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: which I talked about briefly on the last episode,
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_02: and it was just as good as I knew it would be.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_02: And then I've also spent time with a couple of other books from two of our favorite publishers.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I finally got a chance to read Not a River by Selva Almada,
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: translated by the wonderful Annie McDermott,
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: which was published by Charco Press.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: And so a lot of people may have
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_02: have already been ahead of me on this,
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: but it's the third part of a loose trilogy that also includes the books,
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_02: The Wind That Lays Waste and Brickmakers.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I've actually not read either one of those other ones.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I started at the end,
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: but I get the impression that that's,
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: a loose trilogy means,
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: it's fine.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_02: But I do actually want to go back and read those other ones because this book was pretty amazing.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: The entire kind of theme of this trilogy seems to focus on the idea of toxic masculinity,
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: among other things.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: But,
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_02: this book has been all over lately because it was a finalist for the International
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: Booker Prize this year.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: and although it didn't win it did win the 2024 shadow international booker prize
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: which is made up of some wonderful readers that we know,
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: including our friend Francis Evangelista,
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: O'Sheen Harris,
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: Tony Malone,
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: who a lot of people know probably on Twitter and social media,
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: and then David Hebblethwaite,
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: among others.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, it's a shadow panel of very impressive readers who voted this as their winner.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: So anyway,
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: I know you and I have been talking a little bit about that book offline,
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: and you read it maybe,
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: what,
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_02: six months ago or something like that.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think maybe even just the early,
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: I guess it's almost been six months into the year,
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: but yeah,
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: it was January or February,
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: I feel.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, just another great book from Charco, like you and I were talking about.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: They just do such a good job of these strong and powerful voices,
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: that are translated from the Spanish.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: So this was just the latest example of one of those and absolutely wonderful.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: So I would encourage anybody who hasn't gotten to it to read that one.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_02: But another one that I have been reading,
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: I got recently as part of my New Directions subscription to their New Classics Club.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: And it's another one that I know you read.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's It Lasts Forever and Then It's Over by Anne DeMarkin.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: Man, that book is just unlike anything I've read.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: It was so good, so fascinating, so compelling.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_02: I immediately, after finishing it, handed it to my wife.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, you have to read this, and she's tearing her way through it, and she's loving it too.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: I want to chat about it a little bit,
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: but it's one of those,
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_02: I think the advice you gave me was the less you know headed into it,
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: the better,
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: because I think you went into it kind of blind.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: and really enjoyed that experience.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I did the same thing.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: I ended up taking your advice and not even reading the cover copy or anything like that,
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: which to anybody who doesn't know anything about it,
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: I would highly recommend doing that.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm not going to give any details,
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: but I'm just going to read the opening few paragraphs to give people a taste.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess technically there's spoilers in this,
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_02: but considering it is literally the first few paragraphs,
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if they really count as spoilers.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_02: So here goes.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_02: I lost my left arm today.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: It came off clean at the shoulder.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: Janice, too, picked it up and brought it back to the hotel.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_02: I would have thought it would affect my balance more than it has.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: Just like getting a haircut, the air moving differently around the remaining parts of me.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_02: Also, by turns, a sense of newness and lessness.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: Free me.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: Undead me.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: Don't look at me.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: Isn't it strange that I never knew a single living Janice, and now I know three?
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: I stay in bed all day.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: If I lie on my right side, I can keep the arm balanced as if it was still part of me.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_02: Or I can pretend it is your arm and that you're in bed with me.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think about how we used to take a blanket into the dunes and wrap up together.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_02: Wake with sand in our hair and in the corners of our eyes.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: Sound of the ocean, big as the sky.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_02: I miss sleep.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: I miss you.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: Mitchum says I'm in denial,
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: that I'm depressed because I'm indulging in a sense of loss instead of wonder.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: Embrace your new existence, he says.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: I picture myself trying to do this with one arm.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: When I was alive, I imagined something redemptive about the end of the world.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: I thought it would be a kind of purification, or at least a simplification.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: Rectification through reduction.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: I could picture the empty cities, the reclaimed land.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: That was the future.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: This is now.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_02: The end of the world looks exactly the way you remember.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: Don't try to picture the apocalypse.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: Everything is the same.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean good lord that's just amazing stuff and and so I think that opening couple
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: pages gives you a huge glimpse of what the rest of the book is like I mean there's
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: some humor to it I guess but also just so powerful so beautiful almost like poetry
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_02: in parts but also this fascinating you know plot that's going on in the background
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: so yeah oh man that book I loved it so much
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: No, I'm glad to hear it.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: It does.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's getting a lot of buzz from people who are reading it.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: I hope that there are plenty of people finding it for that.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: I do too.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Because it is,
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: and it keeps building,
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: it kept on making me surprised and kind of gasp at how profound it was,
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: even while I'm like,
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: what is going on here?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, when I figure it out, I'm still, you know, it doesn't ever feel silly.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: It just, oh, I loved it.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: I know me too.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: There's some images and scenes in that book.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: I think that'll stick with me forever.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: Several in particular that I'm thinking of right now that were just unlike anything that I've read.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought they were amazing, but the whole thing.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: Cool.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: So good.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, excellent.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you got to it.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, me too.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: Did you feel pressured?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: Because I remember when you posted it, we were like, okay, you can start that right now, Paul.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I've talked about this before.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: I know some people do feel pressure.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: I don't always give into it, but I love that stuff.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's part of the reason that I tend to post so many pictures of books that I...
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: get when i get book mail or when i go to the bookstore part of it is it's just fun
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: to share that but i love the feedback because there's nothing more exciting to me
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: when i take a flyer on some book or i get some book that i don't know anything
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_02: about in the mail and people just start raving about it it just i don't know i get
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: really excited so no i i i don't always follow the zeitgeist to jump right into
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: these you know it books but this is one where i had no compunctions about doing
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: that and it's sometimes fun to kind of catch
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_02: the vibe while it's happening and just go along with it too.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: So no, I don't regret it at all.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: I absolutely loved it.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_02: So good.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: What about you?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: What have you been reading?
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought I would be on theme today and talk about the audio book that I'm
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: listening to right now that I am really enjoying.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it is Ann Patchett's book Commonwealth.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Have you read any Ann Patchett?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if we've talked about her too much.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: We haven't talked about her too much.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: I did.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: I read that one, actually.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then I read the other one, which I'm not remembering the name of it right now.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's the one,
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: at least at one point,
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: that she was most famous for,
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: where it's kind of like a hostage situation.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Bel Canto.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_00: Bel Canto.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thank you.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I've read both of those.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's all for now.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: But I know she has a new one out, Tom Lake, a newish one that's been getting a lot of buzz too.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I read Bel Canto back,
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: not right when it came out,
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: but like within a year or two and really enjoyed it and went back and read her debut,
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: The Patron Saint of Liars.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then I don't know why I didn't read some of her other ones.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I got a review copy of State of Wonder when it came out and really enjoyed that one.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way,
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: she's the owner of Parnassus Books,
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_01: and she has a great Friday feature where she says,
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: if you haven't read this book,
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: then it's new to you,
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: even if it's an old book or whatever.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: She's talking in this one about Evelyn Waugh's A Handful of Dust.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: And saying that she plagiarized that for State of Wonder.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought, oh, I do.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: I love both of those books, you know, very much.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: And she actually said that her next one is also a plagiarism of Handful of Dust when it comes out.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought, oh, good.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: But then for whatever reason, I didn't read Commonwealth when it came out a few years later.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I didn't read Dutch house, the Dutch house when it came out.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: And, um, I haven't read Tom Lake, but I did recently say, you know, I'm going to go back.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: I've enjoyed her books in the past.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: I do enjoy her, her supportive books and authors on at Parnassus books.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I did the Dutch house, which I, you know, really enjoyed as well.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: But I think Commonwealth might be my favorite of hers so far.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not super far into it, like three or four chapters, but they're long chapters.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: that tend to tend to be at different times of this,
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: this,
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: kind of combined family,
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: various people.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it starts out in the 1960s, um, with just, uh, a baby, um,
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, what do you call it?
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a baby shower because there were couples there and everything.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway,
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: maybe a christening or something where they had a bunch of colleagues and people
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: around and that kind of leads to two of them getting to know each other and an
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: illicit kiss that
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: we learn in that when the next one starts,
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: those two ended up kind of splitting with their spouses and marrying each other,
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: moving across country,
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: combining families.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: And the book goes through all of that.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: But it isn't it while it's big in in that scope.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: The individual stories are very intimate and small.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm just really, really enjoying it so far.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I do have Tom Lake on hand as well that I'll get to.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then I'll have to see which of her older books that I haven't read.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: There's only a few of them now are ones that I want to read.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe all of them.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: So if listeners have any thoughts on Run...
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: Taft and The Magician's Assistant.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: Those are the ones I haven't read from the older days.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: are they worthwhile you know let me know I'd love to hear it but I think
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: Commonwealth is I'm really enjoying it yeah no I'm glad you're reading her she is
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_02: one of those that's so easy to kind of just take for granted we've talked about
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: that with certain authors where you acknowledge in your head that they're very good
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: but you don't necessarily get to them so it's sometimes nice just to like make a
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_02: concerted effort and dive back in and just and realize you know how good they are I
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: continue to do that with Ann Tyler speaking of audiobooks
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: She's one that I've just I was going to talk about it in our episode,
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_02: but I'm jumping the gun a little bit.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: But this is our episode.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was going to say maybe it's just it's go time.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's she's she's one of those that I do.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: I find those certain authors that work really well on audio.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: And Anne Tyler has worked really well for me.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm doing the same thing where I'm just kind of going back and revisiting a lot
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: of her works throughout the decades.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good idea.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: I really like Ann Tyler as well.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I always have the intention of reading more.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: And you're right.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: Audiobooks are a great way.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I can see how she's such a great storyteller that I can see audio being a great
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: way to listen to them.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: So is this, you know, is this the transition?
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: Did we end up over here without even quite meaning to?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: I think I skipped our segue part.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I was the one who brought up, you know, listening to that book on audio and enjoying it for that.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, why don't we jump into it?
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: Audiobooks.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: Are these controversial anymore?
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: I know that there are people or have been people in the past who don't think that
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: it's actually...
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't count,
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: whatever count in quotes means for reading.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so maybe they have had their...
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what the word is, but their reputation amongst some might be down.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: But you and I are both fans.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: And listen to plenty of them.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think they're great ways for me to get through.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: And that almost sounds like it's a way for me to start checking boxes.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: I don't necessarily mean that.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: They're great.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: I just, I like being around books and reading and storytelling.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: And these are great ways for me to continue that while I'm doing other things,
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: driving,
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: to work out in the garden,
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: doing some yard work,
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: doing the dishes.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: You, we've also talked about this, but audio books sometimes promote doing chores.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'll do one more load of laundry.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not ready for this to be over.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if no one else is going to fold these clothes, I guess I better click on the book.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly,
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: there are things where if I weren't listening to an audio book,
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: I might be on YouTube or Instagram or something,
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: which I do love those.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: I love being able to listen to a story.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm a big fan.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: I know you are,
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: but what are some of your thoughts on just audio books in general,
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: the culture around them?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: I do feel like it's getting, it's gotten better and there's not quite the stigma.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I think there was a big pushback for a while against them.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: And then I feel like there's been like a reciprocal pushback in praise of them.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_02: Basically, like, you know, lose the judginess.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: Reading is reading.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: It all counts.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm glad because I do obviously fall into that ladder.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: category like you said i think they're just a great way to fit even more books in
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: reading into your life that's how i view it is like almost like bonus books because
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: i've talked about this like not always but in many cases for me i use them as a
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: chance to you know squeeze in some books where either i may literally not have
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: gotten to them otherwise just knowing myself these are ones that i'm interested in
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: but maybe they would just never quite make it to the top of my list or like i've
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: said before it's a good way to dip your toe into like a book or an author where
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: you're not sure.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, I'll try it that way.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: And then maybe that'll,
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_02: maybe it'll take off and maybe it won't,
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: but it's,
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: again,
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: for me,
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: it's kind of like bonus books.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's just a way, all the things you said, driving, doing dishes, exercising, mowing the lawn.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I've talked a lot about on long walks, which I do quite often throughout the week.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: And especially on the weekends, I have some really profound experiences.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: reading memories from some long walks that I've taken.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: one that I mentioned quite a bit already,
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: but I'll mention it again because it just blew me away was Over the Holidays and
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: Beyond because it was such a long book,
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_02: but Taking Long Snowy Walks While Listening to Red Comet by Heather Clark.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: I just have like it's almost like where the rest of the world goes away and I'm
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: just in this little cocoon listening to books like that.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, I mean, it's been amazing.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: I was going to ask you, how long have you been an audio book listener?
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_02: Because I was thinking about it.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: I have been listening for a long time to the point where.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: I definitely listened to them on CD from the library for years.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: And there were even a few times where I remember listening to literal books on tape.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: I borrowed my aunt's car and she didn't have a CD player.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: And so I ended up listening to a bunch of Hemingway short stories on the literal cassette tapes.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so,
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: like I said,
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: some of these really wonderful memories that I have dating back,
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_02: I would say at a minimum of five,
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: 15 to 20 years I've been listening to audio books for sure.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: How about you?
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: I,
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: I don't mean we probably,
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: if we,
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: I know,
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: I know this is going to ring a bell for you,
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: but we could go back even further to record players and go into the library and
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: checking out those little kits where you'd have the,
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the book and it would ring when you'd turn the page.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great how great an experience was that as a child to have those.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: those were both record players,
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: but then it did shift to cassette tapes,
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: which I did that my whole,
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: growing up.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't know in my teenage years did I specifically listen to any audiobooks.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have that memory.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: However, in around the year 2000...
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: I remember my mom,
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_01: we were at an airport,
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: and she pointed across the way and go,
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh,
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: hey,
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor,
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: that person over there is reading the new Harry Potter book.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I had no idea what she was talking about.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: I was a little bit out of the loop.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it was the fourth one, the Goblet of Fire.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it's this big, green, hardback, this young person is toting around.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought...
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: That sounds weird.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: But somebody,
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if I went to the library or if somebody had it,
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: but I did finally check out the book on CD for the first Harry Potter book.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I was working at the time,
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: like just doing menial jobs in a warehouse kind of setting,
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: putting together kits of this product.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I had nothing better to do than to listen to audio books.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: And there were plenty of times while I listened to that one and then the next one and then the third one.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: And finally,
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: the one that probably took,
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: 25 CDs or more,
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: book four and staying later than needed in order to keep going with them.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I really enjoyed the
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: that way of getting into Harry Potter.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: And those are in here in the United States, read by Jim Dale.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: That was also maybe the first time that I,
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: and,
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: again,
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: early on in my,
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: in my re,
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: beyond the childhood,
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: the little cassette tapes or little record players,
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: realizing that
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: a great reader can really tell a great story.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: And while I've read those on in book form as well,
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: it,
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: it didn't,
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: that was not something where I felt like I missed something,
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: but maybe even had things,
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: different things.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think that reading books,
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: Has its pluses and things that are maybe you can't always get from an audio book.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think audio books can have things that you're probably not going to get when you're reading them.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's one of my earliest memories of getting back into audio books.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: And because I enjoyed it so much, I really haven't stopped.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there have been times when audio books were harder to get.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't really like toting around, you know, giant boxes of CDs.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: But now they're so accessible,
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: whether you use an online provider like Libre FM or Audible or any of the options there,
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: Spotify is into it or use something like Libby for your library checkout.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: It has been a while since I've used a physical way, had a physical audio book.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's been some time.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: No,
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_02: but it is interesting that you bring that up because I was thinking about all the,
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: I guess,
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_02: advances,
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: as you would say,
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_02: that have taken place now that we can,
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: like you said,
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_02: Spotify and Libby.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_02: Libby is the one I use most often for sure.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: But one thing I was thinking about is when you listen to those old 25 CD versions
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: of a book,
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: that was a commitment.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it would take a long, long time and they still do.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: But one of my favorite features with the newer versions of audiobooks is the
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: ability to adjust the speed of the reader.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: And it doesn't always, sometimes I'll leave it at 1.0 because it's just the perfect rhythm.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: But,
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: talking to our friend online,
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: Tim Saylor,
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: who is an audiobook narrator,
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: among other people,
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: I know that many of them are instructed to actually read them slower than you
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: normally would speak.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't know if that's an accessibility thing or if it's just to give people
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_02: the option,
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: but I have found often 1.25 is kind of the perfect rhythm.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_02: you know speed where it sounds more conversational like it doesn't sound like
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: they're slowing down but there there are cases where i'm like you know 1.5 or even
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: the rare 1.75 where it it doesn't even sound sped up it actually sounds normal but
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: anyway if you were listening to a book that was read like that on cd
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_02: that would be an even longer experience but i do just enjoy all of the various ways
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_02: now that you can bookmark you can speed up you can slow down like it's just so easy
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: and nice to listen to audiobooks now and you can kind of adjust them to whatever
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: you you need them to be yeah you don't have to remember where you were in a track
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: or what track you were on or did i finish the cd i know or the dreaded you got it
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: from the library the physical cd and you get to like
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_02: CD 18 of 25 and you find out it's damaged and you're like, Oh God, what am I going to do?
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: So, Oh, terrible.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: But, but yeah, these have always been great.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: Now there've been times when I started listening to an audio book and I don't,
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: I can't think of any particular examples of this right now.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: And well, actually one does come to mind.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, recently, you know, a couple of years ago, I, um,
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: tried to listen to The Trees by Percival Everett on audio.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was read very slowly.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I just felt like I was missing some things, even though I sped it up.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, I want to read this.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: There's something going on here that I'm not capturing with the audio.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing against the reader or even others who that's how you listen to that book.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: But I felt like I needed to sit down and listen to that.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so I quickly got it and just burned through it really, really, really fast on my own.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: So there have been times when an audio just isn't the way for me to do it.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm kind of curious why you think that is.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: And again, taking the reader out of it.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_01: We'll maybe get into that when we talk about some of our favorite readers.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because there have been plenty of times where I'll start an audio book and think,
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: nope,
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: nope,
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: don't need this person's voice in my head or the way they're telling the story or
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: something like that.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: But when that's not an issue, why is it that sometimes an audio book just isn't the way to go for you?
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: If I'm not making an assumption that you've ever felt that way.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: No, you're definitely not making an assumption.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I like that you brought it up because there are cases where I will read the...
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: you know, the physical copy and then go back and listen to the audio book or the other way around.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'll listen to the audio book and go back and listen to the physical copy.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: So there's all kinds of ways to do it.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah,
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: when it doesn't work for me,
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think outside of the voice,
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: which again,
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: you said,
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_02: we'll talk about,
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_02: I think a lot of times it's,
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: there are certain types of books that just work well and certain types of books,
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: at least for me that don't.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I think there are times where sometimes the,
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_02: really beautiful colorful language which is one of the things that i love most
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_02: about reading like i've had experiences where that does work in an audiobook but i
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: don't know that it necessarily lends itself as well because you know i'll admit
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_02: that it's a different experience you know audiobooks it's it there are times where
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: i do probably miss more than i would if i was reading off the off the page you know
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: if you're driving if you're
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: doing whatever, like I think it engages a different part of your brain.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so I don't think that books that are focused on,
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: beautiful writing and lush descriptions and things like that always work as well
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: for me when I'm listening.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: So that would probably be the main one off the top of my head that sticks out,
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: which could,
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_02: we could transition into what does work well,
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: but I wanted to get your thoughts first on when it doesn't work.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: Is there anything else that comes up for you?
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think language,
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: and I don't necessarily mean for me like the fluid language or whatever,
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: because I think,
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: again,
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_01: a great reader can make you just fall for that rhythm.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: But books where the structure might be part of what it's going for,
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: like you just,
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if there even is an audiobook of this one,
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_01: but Selva Almada's Not a River.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_01: I can't imagine listening to that book because I had to,
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: I had to be, I had to see how the paragraphs were shaped.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: I had to see how the sections broke up and I had to flip back and forth.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't just because it was kind of,
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: maybe confusing at points and I needed to reread something,
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: which,
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: with audio books is difficult.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's because just the very physical presence of those words,
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: it seemed to be part of what the book was about or the way the book was conveying
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_02: what it was about.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's a great point because I'd seen somebody even liken that,
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_02: the way those paragraphs are structured almost to waves within a river.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I really liked that comparison.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: No, that's a really good point.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: And it brings up another example that I wasn't thinking about.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: I think I've talked about it before,
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: but I actually listened to the audio book of Jennifer Egan's visits from the Goon
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: Squad and had no idea that,
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: huge chunks of that are very visually focused with PowerPoint presentations and
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: other things like that.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: And
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: What I didn't know, I guess, didn't hurt me because I still thought it was a really profound experience.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: But I do,
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_02: now that you mentioned it,
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_02: there are absolutely...
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: I was thinking just another book I just read,
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_02: Sebald.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_02: He scatters those found photos into his paragraphs.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I wouldn't say it's an integral part of the book because you could definitely...
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: get most of what you needed to out of that book without them,
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: but you would be diminishing the experience in some way.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: The texture.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's, that's a great point.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_02: Things like that, where even something like poetry, I mean, it is wonderful to listen to it.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that is one of the ways going to a poetry reading is absolutely beautiful.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: And you can get sometimes more out of,
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: reading than you could out of you know reading it off the page but there is
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: something to be said for the way that poems are formatted in many cases that it
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: does it's not a better experience it's just a different experience do you ever
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: combine the two at one time yes I do I was going to bring that up yeah yeah one of
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: the most profound reading experiences of my life was Ulysses and
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I've talked about this as well,
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: but oh man,
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to have to look up his name real fast because I need to give him credit.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I did that.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: I listened to the audio book while I was reading.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: the physical book and it was one of the most amazing experiences of my entire life
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: like he like i said i'm trying to find his name sorry you're okay yeah i remember
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: you talking about this too i still need to maybe i'm paying attention because i
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: want to know who who did read it even though you've told me before yeah because i
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: would like to to grab on to it
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I found the name.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_02: Jim Norton is his name.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: And oh, man, it is just amazing because, again, I can't recommend this highly enough.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: Anybody who hasn't read it or even if you have, just go out and do this immediately.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: Because he sings.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_02: He does all the voices.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_02: He does the accents.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_02: He has so much fun with it.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's just like one of the best, you know, acting experiences you could ever have.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_02: be able to witness and you're also reading the physical page.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was absolutely stunning.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_02: So that's by far the best experience I've had like that.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: but I will talk,
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: we're going to jump a little bit here into one of my other favorite audio book experiences,
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_02: which again,
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_02: I've talked to ad nauseam,
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: talked about ad nauseam,
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_02: but,
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: wolf and white van by John Darnielle,
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_02: which I've,
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_02: I've talked about that on a road trip from Colorado to Arkansas.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know much about the book and it just so happened that it coincided the
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_02: settings of the book to a large part coincided with the same states we were driving
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_02: through and these kind of farm lands and these,
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: it was just amazing.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, we're not going to go and pull over to that hotel.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: No, it created this almost transcendent experience, both of those, Ulysses and that one.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_02: And the reason I mentioned Wolf and White Van specifically is because I listened to it audio first.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_02: But then within a year, I went back and I bought the book immediately.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_02: And then I went back and read it again.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: But I couldn't not have his voice in my head.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I did that same thing where I read the physical book, but also listened to John Williams.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: Darneel reading it.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: So those are two right off the top of my head where I've done that.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: Have you ever done the thing where you combine the two?
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's what I do a lot now.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: Not all the time.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm not reading Commonwealth with a physical book in front of me while I'm listening to it.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: That I'm doing in the car.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of these reading projects where I'm going through maybe a classic
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: literature or something like that,
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: I just finished the mill on the floss and it's kind of fun because when you look,
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: there's a bunch of narrators for the mill on the floss or various of these books.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, you can get the LibriVox, you know,
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: Ones that are basically a bunch of amateurs getting their resources together to provide,
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_01: which is great,
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: but they're not always a great experience in terms of listening quality and,
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_01: reader and all of that.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, the spectrum is quite great.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, I found one read by Eileen Atkins that I really, really enjoyed reading.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: But I read every word with her in front of me.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: I would do a chapter at a time.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: And that actually led me to be able to speed it up maybe more than I normally would
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: because I am reading it as well.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just an immersive experience.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's so great.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_01: And there are things I get from her reading.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: especially if George Eliot lapses into some dialect that I don't know if I could do,
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: but also her just energy,
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: her way of interpreting the words,
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: some of these people,
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: many of them are actors and performers.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so they're able to lend something to a book and they've probably,
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_01: they probably,
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_01: to an extent have thought about how am I going to do this particular character or,
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: or situation and,
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_01: maybe not all of them have that,
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: that freedom,
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_01: but,
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: they're able to,
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: to lend that to it,
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_01: which is really,
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: really fun.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: So that's how I did that one.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: I've been doing that,
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: with the,
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_01: the,
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: Anthony Trollope books with,
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: Timothy West's reading and he,
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: he is so good.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: He is so good.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: And on the Instagram book groups where I'm doing that, um,
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: He is consistently praised by people.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: Some people are like, I'm having a hard time with this one.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, have you tried giving old Timothy a shot?
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I just did that.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's so good.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he is really, really a fine reader.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_01: He delivers the humor and the emotion so well.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's such a delight to listen to him.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: I could listen to any one of those books again,
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: almost immediately afterwards,
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: just because of the pleasure of,
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: again,
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: hearing someone perform.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: a good story and that that's just a delight, you know?
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I feel like that combination really does engage both sides of your brain at the same time.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like you said, it can be so immersive and powerful and
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_02: I really liked what you mentioned because it works for a lot of...
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: Audiobooks work well for a lot of different types of books,
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_02: but you and I both like to read widely around the world and accents or dialects or
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_02: slang or some of these different things where you could read it and you could take
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_02: your best shot at it,
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: but we don't always have all of the background information we need about every
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: topic we're reading about.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so to have somebody that's a skilled...
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: narrator who either you know is like you said a trained actor or they're from that
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_02: part of the world and they know what we don't know that can just take the
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: experience to a whole nother level so yeah that's definitely another thing about
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_01: audiobooks that can be really amazing well and here's one i don't know how you'll
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: feel about this paul no i know you'll i know you'll appreciate what i'm gonna say
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: but i don't know if you'll appreciate all that i'm gonna say how i'm gonna say it
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_01: okay
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_01: George Saunders.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_01: I prefer to listen to him read me his stories.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: I do like reading them.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I've had my ups and downs with him in various times.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: But I prefer to listen to him read them.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: He is a great reader.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: reader of his own work and you know he knows he knows what he's trying to do but he
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_01: just has he has a almost a dry tone of reading that matches his the tone of his
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: stories really well he's he's he's really good at it he has no actually i i'm
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_02: wholeheartedly in agreement with you i
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_02: love him he was one of the ones I was going to mention is my very favorite readers
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_02: of their own work because especially in some of his earlier work but he does it in
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_02: his later work too where he'll just have these little weird like you know it's in
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: the future and they're talking in these you know strange clip sentences or almost
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_02: like I don't know how to say it but almost like business speak or some different
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: things like that and the way he does it yeah some weird devolved
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: business speak.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: And no, he's amazing.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: And the nice thing that I've found is I read some of his stuff and then I listened
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: to the audio books and had that same experience you just described where it took it
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_02: to a whole different level.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_02: So now he's another one that I actually do them at the same time.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: But what I was going to say is even when I've read his work since then without the audio,
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_02: the nice thing is that I hear it in his voice.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so even if I'm not necessarily listening, it's helped, it's trained me to read him
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_02: in a better way, I guess, if that's the way to say it.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_02: And another author that I have had that same experience with is David Sedaris.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: He is a masterful performer of his own works.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, there's mythos that, I mean, it's not mythos, it's actually true.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like when he does his readings live and we've gone to some,
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_02: he'll sit there and he'll he'll be reading from either an old work or if he's
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: reading something new especially he'll stop and start writing down on the podium
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_02: wall and he'll say it i've i've seen him talk about this he's basically like
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_02: fine-tuning on the go like giving it how the audience future direction yeah how the
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_02: audience reacted and like if it's a piece that hasn't come out yet in written form
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_02: that he's just practicing he will actually change but anyway he he takes it very
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_02: seriously and he's amazing at it and so
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_02: Once I've listened to some of his audiobooks,
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_02: the same thing,
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_02: I can then read his other stuff and I hear it in his voice and it just makes it an
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: even better experience.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm with you for that, for sure.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes these voices that do it so well can even help me
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: with a book I am physically reading, even if it's not one of theirs.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like John Darnielle is such,
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: he has such a way of delivering his lines that I don't remember what I was reading,
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: but it was shortly after all those.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I was not struggling, but also like just, you know, maybe a little bit on the surface.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: And for some reason, my mind switched to hearing him reading it to me.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that just transformed the experience of, you know, it was, it was weird, but it was weird.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_02: And it was really strange when I went and saw him read his book.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I, you know, got to briefly talk to him about translated fiction.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_02: It was so surreal because having a,
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_02: Spent time not only reading his stuff and being inside of his mind,
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_02: but like listening to hours of his voice.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then to be talking to him,
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_02: it was like one of those strange experiences where you feel like you know them
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_02: intimately and they're just like,
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_02: nice to meet you.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_02: What do you mean?
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_02: We've known each other for years.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah,
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_02: no,
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_02: it's such an interesting experience to spend all this time with authors,
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_02: either on the written page,
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_02: but especially when you're hearing their voices.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_02: It just, it changes things.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's fun.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: I did just while we're sitting here a little bit of live, you know, Googling.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to see if we have any indication of another book by him because Devil House came out in 2022.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: But no, I don't see anything.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: Universal Harvester was 2017.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_01: So that would mean if he stuck with that, maybe 2028, 2027.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_02: he's got a few other things going on you know like yeah a band that he tours with
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_02: and no but he's a great follow on social media too where he'll from time to time he
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_02: will um we've talked about what a great reader he is he is a champion of indie
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_02: presses translated literature on top of being a great author himself and he'll do
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_02: these videos where he'll be talking about what he's reading and going into this
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_02: archipelago or nyrb book or whatever and so yeah he's a he's a great follow
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's see.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: I do have a couple of other kind of notable listening experiences that I wouldn't
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: mind bringing up,
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: but are there other maybe general topics you wanted to explore with this that we
• 49:17
  SPEAKER_01: maybe skirted around?
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: we've touched on it,
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_02: but I was going to talk about a couple of types of books or genres that I've had a
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_02: lot of success with.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_02: with audio books.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_02: One in particular is narrative nonfiction.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_02: So like the Eric Larson's or David Grand's of the world,
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_02: for example,
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_02: I've gone through almost all of their books,
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_02: the lost city of Z the wager.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_02: I think I read physically devil in white,
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_02: in the white city,
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: but,
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_02: I'm trying to remember some of Eric Larson's.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, is it, uh,
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_02: Lusitania, I think it is, or anyway, or no, I'm sorry.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's dead wake is the name of the book,
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_02: but,
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_02: a lot of those narrative nonfiction books work really,
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_02: really well.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_02: with this style of things or science books like The Sixth Extinction by Elizabeth Colbert.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_02: That's another one where I think I would have had great success with if I'd read it
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_02: on the printed page,
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_02: but it worked really well.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_02: And it's, I don't know what it is.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's the fact where some of these books where I might have a tendency to
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_02: get intimidated or bogged down a little bit by
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_02: a historical aside or you know when it gets a little bit more into the hard science
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_02: side of things than would normally be my wheelhouse but when you're listening to an
• 50:28
  SPEAKER_02: audiobook for one thing it's almost like you're listening to a lecture which i
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_02: really enjoy and so it's hearing this expert talk about it and there's also the you
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_02: know that inevitability of you know if you lose the track of things for a minute or
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_02: two
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_01: They're still going and then you pick it back up and you can keep going.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: If you're driving down the road in 10 miles, that'll be over.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, those books that I just talked about, they're all masterfully done.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not like,
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 50:53
  SPEAKER_02: they're bogged down or anything,
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_02: but it's just an interesting approach to some of these books that,
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: again,
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_02: this is an area that I'm really interested in science books,
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_02: for example,
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_02: or,
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_02: or again,
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_02: the narrative nonfiction stuff where it's not that I like necessarily dad books.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not going to see myself reading like the biographies of,
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_02: U.S.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_02: presidents or something,
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_02: but there is some of this stuff like the Eric Larson's and David Graham's are the
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_02: two that popped to mind,
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_02: but there's other examples where they are doing these really fascinating dives into
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_02: historical events that have taken place.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_02: And they're doing it in a very narratively driven,
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_02: powerfully told way,
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_02: but it may not be one that I would necessarily find time for.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_02: mixed in with all my other books that i'm reading but i've i've had some really
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_02: wonderful experiences with those types of things so those are a couple and then one
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_02: other thing i was just going to mention is i've also been using it to revisit old
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_02: favorites that sometimes from even like my teenage years or early 20s you know we
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_02: talk about our buddy stephen king a lot um
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_02: I don't necessarily want to revisit every one of his books that I read during my,
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_02: early days when I was reading every word that he put out,
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_02: but I've had some wonderful experiences revisiting,
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_02: the dead zone,
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_02: pet cemetery,
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_02: the shining,
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_02: and I've done it through audio books in the last five years.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_02: And it's been wonderful because again,
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_02: it's one of those where I wanted to do it,
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_02: but I don't know that I necessarily would have gotten to,
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_02: to actually finding a spot in my reading life for those,
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_02: but it's been an amazing experience to do that.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah,
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_02: i'm still debating how many more of his older books like i've thought about some of
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_02: the big ones you know the it's or the stands of the world you know that would be a
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_02: long long long audiobook but it might be kind of a fun immersive way to to go back
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_02: and revisit some of those all-time favorites yeah that's how i've gotten through
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_01: most of his new ones i think all of them maybe even his audiobook they tend to have
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: good readers and and then i don't feel you know
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_01: I did that big one fairytale.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: Which would have been,
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm imposing presence on my nightstand,
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: but it's not,
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: it's just this little thing on my phone.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_01: I get to listen to when I'm doing other things.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it didn't get in the way of anything.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_01: And,
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: and then I don't feel bad when at the end I'm like,
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: that was kind of,
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: kind of dumb.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_01: Speaking of, I was really engaged in it until it turned dumb.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not trying to make a comment,
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: but that's how I sometimes felt at the end of some of these books that I listened
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: to more because they could be so compelling,
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: but maybe they don't stick the landing.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: You're talking about genres.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: This is how I might do a lot of thrillers.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'll look at the New York Times and see what the...
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_01: best thrillers of the year are.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes I'll,
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm intrigued and I,
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: and I often will check them out from the library and read like two pages and be,
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: that,
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: that this is going well.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then not, I just, I don't know.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: I have a hard time sitting down and physically reading a thriller for some reason,
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_01: but I can listen to those things.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_01: And again,
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_01: when often at the end,
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a little bit disappointed by how it all wrapped up,
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_01: but recognize I still had a really,
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_01: really good time with the book because of the rest of it.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have any regrets.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's a lot of fun.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_02: No, I love that idea.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I keep going back to this and I don't mean it in a disparaging way, but it does.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like audiobooks for me take some of the pressure off of my reading.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_02: It gives me a chance to
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_02: like I've talked about, I feel fairly protective and jealous of my reading time.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not that I only want to read like the great,
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_02: amazing books of,
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_02: the world,
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_02: although I do want to,
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_02: but this does give you a little bit of an outlet where there's less pressure.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's almost like a library book where, you know,
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_02: If I don't like it, I can just turn it back in.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to briefly mention you talk about Uncle Stevie, Stephen King.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_02: He does have a brand new collection of stories out.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm very intrigued because it's been a long time.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_02: And some of his stories have been some of my favorite things that he's ever written.
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_02: So it's called You Like It Darker.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I was actually thinking already that I wanted to do that as an audio book.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_02: And now that I see something on there that might be a transition into a different
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_02: topic here,
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_02: it's narrated or read by Will Patton.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_02: If we're going to start talking about favorite readers, Will Patton does an amazing job.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_02: He has narrated quite a few of Dennis Johnson's books.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_01: I was going to bring him up.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_01: Again, the reread of Train Dreams for me was through his reading, and he is so good.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_02: He's so good.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_02: I've listened to that one.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_02: I've listened to Jesus' Son, and I've listened to Tree of Smoke, which...
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_02: I will say I struggled with a little bit as an audio book,
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_02: and it's an example of one that I did immediately go back and buy the physical copy
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_02: because I am going to go back and read that one again because I didn't feel like it
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_02: worked as well as an audio book,
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_02: at least for me.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, Will Patton, he's so good.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_02: And when I saw just now that he reads that new collection from Stephen King,
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_02: that made me even more excited to check that one out.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like he's even done some other Stephen King ones that I may have read recently.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: I might be wrong.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_02: No, I think you might be right, actually.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_02: I really like him.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_02: we could just talk about other great experiences,
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_02: both narrators or favorite audiobooks that we've read.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_02: Any come to mind for you right away?
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_01: I guess first,
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_01: very,
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_01: very,
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_01: very briefly,
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_01: I do recognize,
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_01: and we've talked about this,
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: that there are
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_01: bad readers you know or ones that just don't connect but there are some who are
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_01: kind of more bad than good I think for most people right and it is it is sad
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_01: because they can I in sometimes I've seen them prevent somebody from carrying on
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_01: with it with a great book or a great series and
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_01: because they do primarily want to do these with audiobooks.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_01: One that is regrettable to me is the Lockwood & Co.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_01: books.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_01: I have never listened to them, though I've read them a few times myself.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_01: Apparently, the first one has a really good reader that a lot of people get into the book and enjoy it.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_01: But then they change readers and people just fall out of it.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so they never finish the series.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_01: They never get to where things start coming together.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe they wouldn't have anyway.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_01: It might not have been the book for them.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I do feel like I've had a lot of people say,
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_01: we listened to the first one,
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_01: really enjoyed it,
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_01: but just couldn't get into the second one.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_01: Didn't like the reader, various things like that.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's kind of sad when that happens.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_01: At the same time,
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_01: just in case there are some people who are worried about the very same thing
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_01: happening with one of my favorite audiobook experiences,
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_01: which is the Thursday Murder Club books.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_01: by richard osman um the first two are read by the you know leslie manville she is
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_01: fantastic she performs them she gets these characters so she nails them and i
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_01: recently re-listened to the first one just again uh really really enjoyed her her
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_01: her reading of it and then she did the second one
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then she was unable to do the third and the fourth one.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_01: So they shifted narrators to Fiona Shaw,
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_01: famous actress,
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_01: people really like her and,
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_01: and,
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_01: I do too,
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_01: but I was really kind of,
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_01: dang it.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_01: They did it again.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_01: How am I going to, to keep, you know, Leslie Manville just has those characters pegged.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Fiona Shaw does such a great job, too.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, just picks up plays, you know, and while, you know, she's not the same person.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it is, you know, clearly different.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's not in any way distracting or problematic for me.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, great readers can make these books come to life sometimes.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_01: And help you get through them or read books maybe you otherwise wouldn't do.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's fun to experiment,
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_01: kind of like you're saying,
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_01: and go places where you might not have made time in your reading.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm glad you mentioned that, though, because there was one, Louise Erdrich.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_02: I listened to her book, The Roundhouse, years ago, and it was my first time trying her.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_02: And boy,
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_02: not to pick,
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even know who the narrator was,
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_02: and I don't mean to pick on anybody,
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_02: but it was,
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_02: I would argue,
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_02: there would be nobody that would have a good experience with this book.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_02: It was stilted,
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_02: really awkward,
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_02: and it really ruined what I would envision would be a book that I would really like
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_02: for me.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_02: And it actually put me off of reading any of her stuff for a couple of years.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_02: And luckily I've,
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_02: I knew all along,
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_02: eventually I would get back to it,
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_02: but it kind of just left a bad enough taste in my mouth.
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_02: I have since gone back and,
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_02: I really enjoyed her book,
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_02: The Sentence,
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_02: which I read last year,
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_00: for example.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not a permanent thing, but I could see how if there was somebody who wasn't
• 1:00:16
  SPEAKER_02: didn't spend as much time as we do thinking about this stuff,
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_02: or if they were just dipping their toes in,
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_02: it could potentially have that thing where it would chase somebody off of hopefully
• 1:00:24
  SPEAKER_02: not reading period,
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_02: but at least a series or an author,
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_01: which is sad.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_01: Must be an act of faith for authors to let their books be read by somebody.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_01: you pray you have a great reader because it can affect people's impressions of you
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_01: and your work.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, speaking of, I wasn't going to go here, but do you have a preference for,
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_02: when you have a narrator do you like somebody who goes all in with like full acting
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_02: you know accents um if it's a male reader like sometimes they'll even kind of like
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_02: do a little bit of like a not a falsetto but like
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there are people that go all in on changing for gender and things.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_02: Or do you like a straight read or does it depend on the book?
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_02: I would say,
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_02: generally speaking,
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_02: I like the accents,
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_02: but I like a fairly straight read,
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_02: generally speaking,
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_02: with some exceptions where something like Harry Potter,
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_02: I do like where they go all in.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't always love it when they go...
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_01: too far in my opinion yeah the the audiobooks that become almost their own
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_01: theatrical production don't appeal to me as much because you know where they might
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: add music to various scenes i'm just like no i i just came for the book you know
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_01: and and great for those that it does appeal to
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah,
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_01: but I think about some of my favorite readers,
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_01: Timothy West,
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_01: Will Patton,
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_01: and these,
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_01: I talked about The Mill on the Floss,
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_01: and another great audiobook experience for me was Maureen O'Brien's Middlemarch,
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_01: her reading of Middlemarch.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_01: They vary things, so you do have different voices to an extent, but it's not like...
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_01: it's not to the point where I feel like it's distracting.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's not like Jim Dale when he does Luna or something like that.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, what in the, who is this freaky voice of this person?
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_01: But it works for that, that setting, but for sure.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, I think most of my favorite ones are,
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_01: have a way of, of varying it, varying their own way of doing it and maybe giving things an accent.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_01: certainly Timothy West,
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_01: if he's doing someone from Ireland will,
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_01: will adopt an Irish accent and do things like that,
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_01: but it's still relatively subtle.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the way that I, that I like it.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_01: You're still reading the book to me and you are performing it, but not quite to that degree.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_02: yeah well another thing that happens sometimes which I have mixed feelings about
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_02: but when it works well it works really well is when you have different narrators
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_02: reading different sections for example if it's a male narrator for part of the book
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_02: and a female for part of the book it'll switch part way through and I've had times
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_02: where like part of me would just wish they would stick with whoever the original
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_02: was even if it changes the gender of the narrator in the book but
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_02: Fourth of July Creek by Smith Henderson is a book that I've mentioned before is one
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_02: of the best audio experiences of my life.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_02: And that was narrated by McLeod Adams or I'm sorry, McLeod Andrews.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_02: But then there's these other sections that are in the voice of a younger female
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_02: character that are written or excuse me,
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_02: read by Jenna Lamia.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_02: And,
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_02: oh man,
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_02: her readings,
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_02: even though they're not a huge part of that book,
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_02: are part of the reason that it just stuck with me.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's just an amazing experience where they kind of swap back and forth.
• 1:03:53
  SPEAKER_02: So it's very much like you would expect from any book.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of it does depend on the individual book.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_02: You don't want to prescribe too much of like, if there's multiple narrators, I hate it.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_02: Because there's been examples where that's worked really well.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and the fantasy world has a lot of books like this because they might have multiple POV characters.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so if it's a, you know, maybe even you'll read that they might rereading the same.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_01: They're not switching within a chapter.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if a male person speaking, even if it's a someone the other person has read before.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_01: their POV chapters, the, you know, they don't change narrators for that person.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_01: but I'm thinking of like the wheel of time books or Brandon Sanderson's stormlight
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_01: books are read by Michael.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_01: Is it Michael Kramer and Kate Redding?
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_01: I could be getting his name wrong, but I think that's right.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_01: They've been doing this for years together.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_01: They're real-life partners,
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_01: and they have been doing this since the Wheel of Time books would have been on
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_01: probably tape and CD in the 90s.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_01: and I don't mind that at all.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_01: When I'm listening to,
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_01: to those that they,
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_01: they switch and,
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_01: and have their different ways of maybe doing certain things.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes they even pronounce like words differently,
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_01: like cities or names of characters,
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_01: which is interesting.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't, it doesn't bother me, but I could see where it would.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_01: And certainly if done maybe just,
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_01: a little bit less well,
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_01: it might,
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_01: but,
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_01: but yeah,
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think there's a place for that.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be honest that,
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_01: bringing up George Saunders again,
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_01: after having read Lincoln and the Bardo and thinking,
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_01: I just didn't,
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_01: I need,
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_01: I need to get that a different experience.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_01: I did decide to do the,
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_01: the all out cast,
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know how many different actors and they have.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_01: That didn't work for me at all.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh-oh, really?
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_01: No,
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_01: I did not like the...
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because when I'm reading it,
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_01: I can read the name of who's speaking like I'm reading a play.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_01: But it's not part of the play.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_01: I had a really hard time listening to it and having them...
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_01: reading the words between the narration.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_01: I guess when I'm reading it, it can be on different planes of what I'm registering consciously.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I did not enjoy that.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't actually...
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_01: Again,
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_01: this is...
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't actually even really get into the longer sections where they were.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_01: I just... It felt...
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_01: I like a lot of those readers in other settings.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_01: In that book, I just felt like it was flat.
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_01: Did you listen to it?
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_02: I did.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_02: I did that same thing where I read it first and then I went back and read and listened to it.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that would have worked for me,
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_01: reading and listening,
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_01: because then I could also somehow edit out the...
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_01: I had forgotten.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_02: Are you saying that they read...
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_02: I don't remember.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_02: They read like kind of the stage directions,
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_02: for lack of a better word,
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_02: and like the prompts and everything.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think if I remember right.
• 1:07:05
  SPEAKER_01: No, you're probably right.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_01: The reason I'm thinking that is that was one of the things I didn't like about the experience.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_01: But when you ask, I'm like, well, I don't know.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe I've maybe I've made that up.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_01: I know how I know enough about how minds work to realize I'm perfectly capable of reinventing.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_02: And it's possible that I just didn't notice.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_02: No, now you've got me curious.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_02: I might have to go back and revisit that.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_02: But no, I mean, it doesn't change the point of I don't know.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it's such a subjective like it just depends on the person.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_02: And but the good thing is just like with all types of reading, there's so many options out there.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, no, I was just a few other like great reading experiences that I've had.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um, audio is the books of Claire Keegan.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, they've had several different narrate, uh, readers, but I've not done those.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_01: I love her books.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_01: They're short.
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_01: That would be a great way to revisit them.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_02: No, I just listened to Foster, um, this week actually.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_02: And it was like, I think the audio book was like barely over an hour.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um,
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_02: But just,
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_02: again,
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_02: what we're talking about of how something as small as an accent can just add a
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_02: whole different texture to a book.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_02: Those are wonderful.
• 1:08:16
  SPEAKER_02: And speaking of Americana by Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_02: narrated by Ajo Ando, I think is how you say her name.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, man.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_02: That was amazing.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_02: Just,
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_02: again,
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_02: the accents,
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_02: and she does a lot of different subtleties within,
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_02: everybody doesn't have the same exact accent,
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_02: but...
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_02: that there's just,
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_02: like when they're in the hairdressers and there's different gossip or conversations
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_02: going on,
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_02: she does what we were talking about where she will tweak it and you can tell who's talking,
• 1:08:48
  SPEAKER_02: but she's so skilled at that.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_02: And also just the beauty of listening to some different dialects and accents can
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_02: just be so transformative and really immerse yourself even further into what
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_02: they're experiencing.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_02: So that has also been one of probably the best audio books that I've ever read.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_02: I absolutely loved that one.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I can keep going on a couple more if you want me to.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_02: Well,
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_01: on that one,
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_01: again,
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_01: a book I've,
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_01: I read,
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_01: it's been some time now and really enjoyed and have thought,
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_01: I wouldn't mind revisiting that,
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_01: but don't know if I'd build the time,
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_01: but this sounds like a great way to both revisit it,
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_01: but also have a little bit of a different experience with it beyond the fact that
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm different,
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_01: but yeah.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I like that.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_01: Go ahead, of course.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_01: No,
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_01: I was just gonna say also,
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_02: she has another book that I listened to,
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_02: which I'm sure Oh,
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_02: half of a yellow sun that I would also recommend if you wanted to branch out further.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I listened to the audio book of that one as well.
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_02: And, um, so anyway, yeah, I was just trying to look and see if that's the same reader.
• 1:09:50
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think it is the same reader.
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_02: Actually,
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_02: that one is narrated by Zainab Shah,
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_02: Zainab Shah,
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_02: but both of them were wonderful experiences,
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_02: but,
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_02: a few more and I could go on and on because there's been many over the years,
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_02: but,
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_02: um,
• 1:10:03
  SPEAKER_02: Burial Rites by Hannah Kent,
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_02: which was read by Morven Christie,
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_02: was another one that was just a wonderful audiobook experience that I had.
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_02: And then this one's kind of tricky because it's been narrated by a bunch of
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_02: different people,
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_02: but the books of Michael Cunningham.
• 1:10:19
  SPEAKER_02: actually work really well for me as audio books.
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_02: Some of them he's read, but the most recent one, Day, was narrated by Julianne Moore.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_02: So that was one of those examples where you can kind of tell sometimes when an
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_02: author's gotten,
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mean,
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_02: he's not gotten big.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_02: He's been big for a long time,
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_02: but when the quality or at least the notoriety of some of the readers starts to go
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_02: up to that status,
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_02: it's like,
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_01: okay,
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_01: he's arrived.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:10:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and she was in The Hours.
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe there's some kind of mutual admiration.
• 1:10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Good point.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Not that you're wrong in what you said.
• 1:10:54
  SPEAKER_01: I agree with you totally.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_01: But that is a nice, I guess, confluence.
• 1:10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Rather than a reason why she might have done it, it's just a kind of a fun confluence there.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but all of his books that I've listened to, yeah, they've been really good.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_02: So that's another one.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_02: I could go on and on, but those are some of the high points.
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 1:11:13
  SPEAKER_01: and I was going to mention Project Hail Mary by Andy Weir,
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_01: because when that was coming out,
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_01: I was,
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_01: oh,
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm interested in reading that.
• 1:11:23
  SPEAKER_01: And tons of people said, no, don't read it.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Listen to it.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh, well, that's interesting.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I would echo them.
• 1:11:31
  SPEAKER_01: It is a great book to listen to.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure it's great to read, but it's read by Ray Porter.
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_01: And there is an alien in the book that he sometimes communicates through like song notes and such.
• 1:11:49
  SPEAKER_01: It is a really good experience.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it doesn't go into the theatricality too much for my taste.
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_01: while still making it a great performance of a lot of things going on.
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought that was a really fun way of reading that book.
• 1:12:07
  SPEAKER_01: But I wanted to,
• 1:12:08
  SPEAKER_01: for my last little thing,
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_01: mention another way of consuming a lot of these is through podcasts.
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_01: people who might read short stories,
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_01: but also the New Yorker Fiction Podcast,
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_01: where you can hear the authors read their own short stories.
• 1:12:25
  SPEAKER_01: There is another one where the New Yorker has authors come on and discuss one of
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_01: their favorite short stories and then read it.
• 1:12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's the one I've listened to a lot.
• 1:12:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I really enjoy that.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_01: And some of them are better than others at reading them.
• 1:12:40
  SPEAKER_01: But it is a fun way for me to get to know the authors themselves.
• 1:12:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking of the weekly one of their...
• 1:12:46
  SPEAKER_01: their current fiction.
• 1:12:48
  SPEAKER_01: And some of the good experiences there.
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, even just over the last few weeks, I'll read them in the magazine while I'm listening to them.
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just a fun experience.
• 1:12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Again, that's where I realized George Saunders is a great reader.
• 1:13:03
  SPEAKER_01: But also, surprisingly, Ian McEwan.
• 1:13:07
  SPEAKER_01: He reads his short story.
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_01: One of the only short stories he's published in The New Yorker.
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_01: He's published a lot of excerpts.
• 1:13:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like every time it feels like one of his novels is coming out, they publish an excerpt of it.
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_01: But my Purple Scented Novel is one of his short stories.
• 1:13:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man, listening to him read that was a delight.
• 1:13:25
  SPEAKER_01: I've listened to it several times just because I do enjoy his...
• 1:13:29
  SPEAKER_01: you know, English snobbery, the way he can indulge in that language.
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_01: And this is where,
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_01: like even a story or book where the language is florid or,
• 1:13:40
  SPEAKER_01: or playful and very much a part of the art behind it,
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_01: which McEwan is always doing wordplay and like fiddling with things.
• 1:13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Good readers can do his work really well too, because he,
• 1:13:53
  SPEAKER_01: they're almost using sounds to, to do the same thing.
• 1:13:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's, it's, that was a, that's a delightful one.
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_01: So another thing I would recommend to people is just the,
• 1:14:03
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:14:03
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_01: find a,
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_01: find a podcast that does short stories and,
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 1:14:09
  SPEAKER_01: enjoy,
• 1:14:10
  SPEAKER_01: enjoy that way of maybe getting some of these classic short stories or,
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_01: getting to know an author you've wanted to,
• 1:14:16
  SPEAKER_01: to know for a while.
• 1:14:17
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I'm so glad you mentioned that.
• 1:14:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a great point.
• 1:14:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I haven't done it over the last couple of years,
• 1:14:22
  SPEAKER_02: but there was a point where I would listen to,
• 1:14:24
  SPEAKER_02: we'll have to see what the name of the actual podcast is.
• 1:14:27
  SPEAKER_02: The one,
• 1:14:28
  SPEAKER_02: the New Yorker podcast where she'll interview somebody and talk about one of their
• 1:14:34
  SPEAKER_02: favorite New Yorker short stories that's ever been written by another author.
• 1:14:38
  SPEAKER_02: And then like you said, they'll talk about the story.
• 1:14:40
  SPEAKER_02: The guest will read the story and then they'll come back on and talk about it further.
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I listened to that religiously for
• 1:14:46
  SPEAKER_02: years and years.
• 1:14:47
  SPEAKER_02: And it was one of my,
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 1:14:49
  SPEAKER_02: go-tos for mowing the lawn and going on walks,
• 1:14:52
  SPEAKER_02: all the things we've described.
• 1:14:53
  SPEAKER_02: And it's a great way to kind of like dip your toe into all these different,
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_02: short story readers and authors.
• 1:15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_01: So that one is just the New Yorker colon fiction.
• 1:15:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's right.
• 1:15:08
  SPEAKER_01: So what is the one that I listen to weekly now called?
• 1:15:14
  SPEAKER_01: The New Yorker, the writer's voice.
• 1:15:16
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:15:17
  SPEAKER_01: So those are the different ones.
• 1:15:19
  SPEAKER_01: I would always call the one the fiction podcast.
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, the one we're talking about where like,
• 1:15:24
  SPEAKER_01: for example, a really good one.
• 1:15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Lauren Groff reads Alice Monroe's story axis in the New Yorker fiction podcast.
• 1:15:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then they talk about it.
• 1:15:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great episode,
• 1:15:35
  SPEAKER_01: but then the,
• 1:15:36
  SPEAKER_01: the New Yorker,
• 1:15:37
  SPEAKER_01: the writer's voice is the weekly one where they have the author,
• 1:15:41
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:15:42
  SPEAKER_01: the current fiction being read by the author to the extent that the author
• 1:15:46
  SPEAKER_01: participates in and does that.
• 1:15:47
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, no, I'm usually they do.
• 1:15:51
  SPEAKER_02: Oh,
• 1:15:51
  SPEAKER_02: I was just looking back through like all the,
• 1:15:53
  SPEAKER_02: some of the New Yorker fiction,
• 1:15:55
  SPEAKER_02: just the names of both the readers and the authors they're reading,
• 1:16:00
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 1:16:00
  SPEAKER_02: Sherman Alexie reads Raymond Carver,
• 1:16:02
  SPEAKER_02: Otesha Moshfegh reads David Means,
• 1:16:05
  SPEAKER_02: Greg Jackson reads Jennifer Egan.
• 1:16:06
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, just on and on.
• 1:16:07
  SPEAKER_02: Just it's, it's a, yeah.
• 1:16:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so glad you mentioned that.
• 1:16:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's a really good suggestion.
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_02: And it's usually, you know, ranging from 30 to 60 minutes.
• 1:16:15
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not a huge commitment either.
• 1:16:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:16:18
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 1:16:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, audiobooks, you know, we're obviously fans.
• 1:16:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm guessing that people listening to this,
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_01: especially if you made it to this part of the episode,
• 1:16:28
  SPEAKER_01: probably are fans too.
• 1:16:29
  SPEAKER_01: We'd love to hear your thoughts.
• 1:16:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I guess if you're not a fan or for whatever reason have different experiences,
• 1:16:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to know those as well and get some of that discussion going.
• 1:16:38
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:16:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I would love to hear recommendations on specific audiobooks,
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_02: kind of like what we've been talking about.
• 1:16:43
  SPEAKER_02: What have been some of your favorites or ones that you would...
• 1:16:46
  SPEAKER_02: recommend specifically as audiobooks.
• 1:16:48
  SPEAKER_02: I think that would be fun.
• 1:16:50
  SPEAKER_01: On that note, really quickly, another audiobook that I listened to recently, read by its own author.
• 1:16:56
  SPEAKER_01: Nancy Pearl reads her novel George and Lizzie, and that's how I listened to, you know, slash Reddit.
• 1:17:02
  SPEAKER_01: But going on and following her social media account,
• 1:17:06
  SPEAKER_01: she is an avid listener of audiobooks,
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_01: and she'll often talk about ones that she's enjoying.
• 1:17:11
  SPEAKER_01: And if you ask her for recommendations, she will often respond with some really great recommendations for
• 1:17:18
  SPEAKER_01: readers or specific books um so yeah nancy pearl a great reader of her of her own
• 1:17:25
  SPEAKER_01: work i really enjoyed that book that's such a strange book um but in a great way um
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_01: and uh but also just definitely someone that folks should follow for these kinds of
• 1:17:37
  SPEAKER_01: recommendations nice
• 1:17:40
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 1:17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Well,
• 1:17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Paul,
• 1:17:43
  SPEAKER_01: you had mentioned a week or so ago that you went back all the way to the beginning
• 1:17:48
  SPEAKER_01: and listened to our very first episode,
• 1:17:50
  SPEAKER_01: our bucket list of books,
• 1:17:52
  SPEAKER_01: our way of getting to know,
• 1:17:53
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 1:17:53
  SPEAKER_01: listeners getting to know us by hearing about the books we have not read yet,
• 1:17:58
  SPEAKER_01: but hope to.
• 1:18:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I went back and listened to it as well.
• 1:18:03
  SPEAKER_01: I was, I was surprised.
• 1:18:04
  SPEAKER_01: We, you know, I was worried that I'd get on there and we'd be like, uh, hello listeners.
• 1:18:09
  SPEAKER_01: This is the mooks and the guys podcast.
• 1:18:11
  SPEAKER_01: This is Trevor.
• 1:18:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and, uh, Paul, Paul, how are you?
• 1:18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm good.
• 1:18:18
  SPEAKER_01: I thought it'd be really stilted.
• 1:18:21
  SPEAKER_01: I thought it was fun to listen to.
• 1:18:23
  SPEAKER_01: I did love that within 10 or 15 minutes, you're already being like, I know we don't have much more time.
• 1:18:28
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 1:18:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I had forgotten listening to that.
• 1:18:32
  SPEAKER_02: We even mentioned it.
• 1:18:33
  SPEAKER_02: We had originally thought we were going to do 30 minutes.
• 1:18:36
  SPEAKER_02: Which is just hilarious given what's happened since then.
• 1:18:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like 30 minutes, we're not usually even out of our intro.
• 1:18:42
  SPEAKER_01: I know, I know.
• 1:18:44
  SPEAKER_01: And listeners have said that they like it.
• 1:18:46
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll, we like it.
• 1:18:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think we can change it.
• 1:18:50
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 1:18:52
  SPEAKER_01: But that was a fun thing to listen to.
• 1:18:53
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, go ahead.
• 1:18:54
  SPEAKER_02: No,
• 1:18:54
  SPEAKER_02: I was going to say just to your point about I was afraid to listen to,
• 1:18:58
  SPEAKER_02: but I think it says a lot about the relationship that we had formed online for so
• 1:19:02
  SPEAKER_02: long and that we had known each other because it was surprisingly natural.
• 1:19:05
  SPEAKER_02: And we just kind of launched out and you could tell.
• 1:19:08
  SPEAKER_02: I don't feel like we've changed that much since then, actually.
• 1:19:11
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 1:19:13
  SPEAKER_01: It was fun to hear for that reason, too.
• 1:19:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I think we decided it would be fun to revisit that topic again.
• 1:19:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I have not read very many of those books on my bucket list.
• 1:19:27
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, the one that I have read is the one I did in that episode.
• 1:19:30
  SPEAKER_01: I kicked off my bucket list.
• 1:19:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's funny.
• 1:19:32
  SPEAKER_01: War and peace, but you've really dug through and you've read most of the ones that you, um, listed.
• 1:19:37
  SPEAKER_01: We'll maybe go into this in more detail in that, in our next episode.
• 1:19:40
  SPEAKER_01: But at any rate, we thought it would be fun to get back on and, um,
• 1:19:46
  SPEAKER_01: revisit that that topic and talk about other books on our bucket list and just the
• 1:19:50
  SPEAKER_01: idea of a bucket list at this point in our lives so yeah it's been what three three
• 1:19:55
  SPEAKER_02: years at least so there's been some changes and yep or maybe there haven't been
• 1:20:00
  SPEAKER_02: some changes in some examples once and we want to just uh talk about if if our
• 1:20:06
  SPEAKER_02: views of them have changed
• 1:20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that that's great.
• 1:20:09
  SPEAKER_01: So listeners, let us know books on your bucket list as well.
• 1:20:12
  SPEAKER_01: We'd love to share some.
• 1:20:16
  SPEAKER_01: Get on the story of Lucy Galt Bandwagon and figure out a way to get a hold of that
• 1:20:22
  SPEAKER_01: book so you can read along with us over the next few hotter months.
• 1:20:28
  SPEAKER_01: And we hope you all have a great rest of this week.
• 1:20:31
  SPEAKER_01: We're almost through May now.
• 1:20:34
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, hard to believe.
• 1:20:36
  SPEAKER_01: It keeps happening.
• 1:20:36
  SPEAKER_01: It does.
• 1:20:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's happened.
• 1:20:39
  SPEAKER_01: Every single May that I've ever been in has ended.
• 1:20:44
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 1:20:44
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thanks, everyone.
• 1:20:45
  SPEAKER_01: We'll talk to you soon.
• 1:20:46
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, everybody.
• 1:20:50
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for listening to this episode of the MOOCs and the Gripes podcast.
• 1:20:54
  SPEAKER_02: You can follow the MOOCs and the Gripes and get show notes and book and film
• 1:20:57
  SPEAKER_02: reviews at MOOCsandGripes.com.
• 1:21:00
  SPEAKER_02: On Twitter, you can find Trevor at mooks and Paul at Bibliopal.
• 1:21:04
  SPEAKER_02: You can also get information about future shows on our Patreon.
• 1:21:08
  SPEAKER_02: If you'd like to donate to the show,
• 1:21:10
  SPEAKER_02: anything and everything,
• 1:21:11
  SPEAKER_02: even a dollar a month,
• 1:21:12
  SPEAKER_02: helps and is deeply appreciated.
• 1:21:14
  SPEAKER_02: You can become a patron at patreon.com slash mooks.
• 1:21:19
  SPEAKER_02: Until next time.