Latest / The Platform: a Michigan High School Powerlifting Association Podcast / Building a Legacy: Michigan Powerlifting History with Coach Mike Holes| The Platform Ep. 28

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Building a Legacy: Michigan Powerlifting History with Coach Mike Holes| The Platform Ep. 28 · The Platform: a Michigan High School Powerlifting Association Podcast

• Chris Whittaker: Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the platform, your Michigan High School Powerlifting Association podcast, where the stories weigh a ton. Today we're taking a trip through the history of Michigan High School powerlifting with a coach who helped build the sport into what it is today. Joining Coach Gillam and myself is former MHSBLA president and longtime powerlifting coach, Coach Mike Holmes. From building a successful program at Croswell Lexington and Ionia. To coaching national champions and helping guide the association through some of its biggest changes. Coach holds, as Benton has seen and Benton just about everywhere and done everything there is within the sport. We talk about the transition from equipped to raw lifting, the explosion of girls' participation in our sport, and what it took to run a state championship with more than a thousand lifters. We also revisit Ionia's twenty nineteen USAPL Raw National Championship and some incredible athletes who came through his programs. And a powerful story about a young man who stepped onto the platform carrying a whole lot more than just the weight on the bar. Speaking of recognizing the people who built this sport into what it is today, we've got some exciting news. Michigan High School Powerlifting Association has officially established the MHS PLA Hall of Fame, and nominations are now open for the inaugural class. We're looking to recognize former lifters, longtime coaches, and contributors who have helped shape Michigan High School powerlifting. Eligible lifters must have graduated in 2021 or earlier. Coaches must have at least 10 years of MHS PLA coaching experience, and contributors must have at least 15 years of involvement. Each year, three to five individuals will be selected with the inaugural class being honored this year during the varsity state championship weekend at Lake Warrior. Coaches, alumni, and members of our powerlifting community, this is your opportunity to help recognize the people who built this association. Check out the Hall of Fame criteria linked in our show notes for more information. We'll also be having it on our website soon. Before we get started, make sure you subscribe to the platform, leave us a rating and review, and share this show with your athletes, coaches, teammates, and anyone who loves this sport. And don't forget, visit the MHSPLA Fourth Wall Shop or some of your favorite platform, podcast, and Michigan High School Powerlifting Association gear. MHSPLA-shop.fourthwall dot com. So step up. Lock in, the bar's loaded for episode twenty-eight with Coach Mike Holes. Hit the intro music. Chris Gilliam: All right, Mike. The your first time around at Croslocks, is it what sticks out in your mind from that time while you were there? mike: you know, athletics like at Cross Legs were great those five years. I mean, the the school I felt like was just full of athletes and and all the sports really were very successful. I taught a lot of ninth grade PE classes and I would just kind of look for kids that we'd do a little intro to weight training unit and all of a sudden like I had a couple of kids that were were naturally pretty good at it and and I would kind of be like, Hey, maybe this is something you know, you look at doing and we we have a we have a competitive weightlifting team and that might be something that you're interested in and and you know the one thing that stood out too to me was when the seasons changed for the girls when the MHS A MHSA had that big season switch and basketball and volleyball got switched, that was when powerlifting really kinda took off. and I don't know w exactly why, but I felt like just the girls that didn't have a winter sport at that time were very athletic and they just for whatever reason they weren't basketball kids and and they needed something a sport to play. And those were those were the kids that I got into powerlifting from the girls side and that was when our team really kind of started taking off on the girls side there at Crosslegs. Chris Gilliam: yeah, for sure. And your second go around, how are things going for you, as a teacher and with the coaching and stuff? mike: it was great. You know, like I was gone for like twelve years and and when I come back, you know, it's kind of weird because everything is the same. there are kids who I had their parents when I was there, right? as students. And so there's a lot of that. I recognize all the names of the families, you know, that are there. and like I said, I we vacationed in Lexington all the time and my wife's from there. So I was always still connected with you know, people there and what was going on and stuff. So it it's it's been it's been great. it's been great. We had a pretty good run of some some players this last couple of years and had some had some definitely some talented kids. and so that that was good. just kinda helped take some kids onto USAPL stuff a little bit from the Cross Lakes powerlifting team, just kinda getting them introduced to what that looks like and and now they've got some guys that that have done it a little bit and they're all kind of just taking it off on their own. So it's it's been good. It's been good. Chris Gilliam: Awesome. Chris Whittaker: Yeah. So now did you start powerlifting at Croslex or was it established there when you before you got there? mike: there were just some kids that went to meets. There were, I think, two or three kids that were like, yeah, we just go to meets or whatever. And and so when I first got there, that's what they said. They're like, we we've been to Vassar, they host a meet, and we go there, and we've been to the Goodrich Meet, whatever. And and I'm like, all right, well, you know, let's let's get a team and and let's start, you know, kind of going with this thing. And so we we we created a team. I think I had one girl that year compete at States. And that was states used to be on a Friday for girls. It started at four thirty and you were a hundred and twenty some girls total, you know, nine through twelve. And you were done and out of there. And then the next day, I think on Saturday, I might have had like two kids that qualified for states for the boys' team. and that was really it just that first year. but it was the start of something that was that was, you know, kids enjoyed and they thought was fun and the next year we we had a really good younger team. I had some ninth graders that were really good at powerlifting and that really kinda kinda launched the Crowdslex kinda powerlifting team was that second year, having some names, some kids that were really good. So Chris Whittaker: Awesome. All right. So now let's roll into Ionia a little bit. what about your Ionia experience brings back kind of the fondest memories? mike: well, I was my first head football coaching job, you know, and I knew that and I was teaching weightlifting classes and I knew that the weight room was gonna be the key to everything and and really wanted to just establish that really good hardworking mentality in the weight room and get kids to get stronger. but I had the powerlifting background and I'm like, guys, this is something that we can go and do and we can compete at. and after I think maybe the second or third year, things there really kind of, really kind of took off. it's funny because it takes like it takes like one kid who's just naturally good at it, that likes it, they're successful, and then a bunch of other kids just want to fall in line and do what they do and be a part of it. and I was fortunate enough, I had a kid that came through, I own you, his name was Shane Nutt. And he was a four-time state champion, a two-time national champion. he colle he competed collegiately, was a collegiate national champion. He's represented the US and I think a couple times you know, overseas kind of thing in Europe. I think he competed in Turkey one year or something. I don't know. But Chris Gilliam: Yeah. mike: he was great. And and all of a sudden, you know, when you're teaching weightlifting classes and you have kids that their strength gains are through the roof, you're like, Chris Gilliam: What mike: My programming is dialed in, baby. You know, like right. You're like, my it's gotta be my my program's gotta be dialed in, right? And then you're like, Okay, well that kid's just really progressing. He's got genetic potential to really just go, you know. And so then you you kind of you pull yourself back and you're like, All right, well, I got a couple other kids that aren't really moving as fast as he is. So but anyway, yeah, and and I own you, we we started up a powerlifting team and we had a lot of kids that that competed. we were Fortunate to host a state meet one year, which was pretty cool. we competed nationally in the USAPL. and at that time you basically had to go equipped. and so that's a whole nother world of powerlifting, which was really cool because you get dialed into what the shirts, how to put on a bench shirt. I mean, you can't just throw it over your throw it over your head and lay down and get 60 pounds on a out of a bench shirt, right? It's you gotta learn to use it. You gotta learn to wrap knees. you kinda gotta get into its own sport at that time and and and I really like that. I really like the idea that it the equipped version of powerlifting kind of turned it into its own sport, which was pretty cool. Chris Gilliam: W when you were actively coaching in the MHS PLA, who were some the people that influenced you and how you approached powerlifting? mike: So number one, and this is gonna be crazy, right? But Barb Zinzmaster and her husband, I I think it's Tom Zinzmaster, but they were at Flint Powers. And when I first started powerlifting in that 2004 year, it was Todd Miller at Plainwell, which you guys said you had Todd on, and and he was like he was amazing. Like I remember the girls at po at Plainwell, they went 12 for 12 on all weight classes, first place across the board, and they just swept the state meet. it was incredible. But then Barb Zintmaster was the one of the Flint Powers coaches and I took kids to I think I took them to Flint Powers for the first ever equipped meet that I'd been to and I had no idea that they had to wear a singlet. And I find out the night before that they have to wear a singlet. So I call the wrestling coach at like seven o'clock on a Friday and I'm like Can can we borrow the wrestling singlets, right? Can I can I just grab a handful of them? And I didn't tell the kids. I did not tell the kids. And we got to the meet the next day. And of course there's this thing called equipment check that none of I I didn't have a clue on. And and I Chris Gilliam: Yeah. mike: handed the kids a singlet and they're like, What are you what are you doing? And I'm like, If you don't wear it, you don't lift. So decide right now what you're doing, right? And and so I don't know. Barb Zinsmaster was great. She helped me out a ton with with the equipped side of lifting. they were really good. there was another gentleman there, and I've drawn a blank on his name from Flint Powers, but he was one of Birchmeyer, Brian Birchmeyer. He was one of the other powerlifting coaches. And he actually invented this this little like a prong that he would attach to a drill to wind up his knee wraps. And he was selling them and it was great because like winding up knee wraps sucks and everything. And so so Brian Birchmeyer was was was great. And then of course Denny Reinhart, you know, at at at Montrose, he was a guy that I always kind of looked up to and and would kind of ask questions and that kind of thing. And so, you know, those are just some of the old names, you know, some of the old, old names in this in this sport that I was fortunate to obviously be after them and just tried to kind of ask them stuff and kind of learn you know, what they were doing and that kind of stuff. But yeah, that that would that would be a couple of the main ones. Chris Gilliam: Right. Chris Whittaker: Some names that we know. Even even me and my th this is what that's what's been cool with this Mike for me. And I say it every episode almost, mike: just really. Chris Whittaker: not being from Michigan and not being involved, you know, back into my high school days, it's cool to to see the connections between everybody and who who helped who and who started this whole thing. And it it's cool for me now to know some of those names that you just mentioned. mike: Yes, it is the it is the craziest sport because you're competing against these other teams. Right? Like you you want your team to win, you want your kid to place whatever, and there's the competitiveness, but then there's also like the cooperation. You know what I mean? Like, hey look, so-and-so's running a meet, they want to borrow 30 of our plates. All right, load up. you know, take over, right? Or so and so needs to borrow the the the lights, the light trees. You know, yep, okay, cool. Or even just between the lifters. it is it is a sport where like the camaraderie amongst lifters, competing against each other, you don't see in any other sport. I mean, you don't see it in wrestling, you don't see it in basketball, you don't see it in baseball and yeah, if you don't see it in football, the camaraderie in this sport is is is truly amazing. and I This y the the best example is when you get down to the the 275 and the super heavyweight boys. those guys like they spend four hours together and you swear that they're all like now just new best friends and and th Chris Gilliam: Yeah. mike: that is a great group of of of kids to be around whenever you're running a meet. Chris Whittaker: Yeah. As a member of the super heavyweight class, yes, I I will agree Chris Gilliam: Yeah. Chris Whittaker: with you there. All mike: Yeah. Chris Whittaker: right. Next topic we're gonna talk about is Some of your former lifters. mike: Well, Chris Whittaker: so you guys were able to win a USAPL men's raw national championship in twenty nineteen with Ionia. mike: Yep. Chris Whittaker: tell us about that experience and some of the key members of that team. mike: Yep. two of the kids on that team went to compete. one went to compete collegially. his name was Colby Pierce. and he was like a one twenty-three, one thirty-two pounder. and he was a really good kid. His dad actually helped coach powerlifting and and and he was great. he really he was like five foot four, right? And so like powerlifting was made for him. You know, this was his thing. He had always played football growing up. I don't think he really wrestled much, but like football just kind of moved beyond him because of his size. I mean, you know, he was a one twenty three at five four and he just powerlifting was his thing. And and I I as the football coach in Ionia, I kept trying to like, Hey, look, I'd love to have you keep doing football and he actually I think he was our holder for a little while because that was just something that, you know, you you give a kid a job and he loves it and he's a part of stuff and and he can have a role on the team, but he was a very good lifter on that team. We had another kid, was a 207, I believe his name was Caleb Bastine. Caleb actually set the American record for team two in the bench squat deadlift and total weight lifted. now that's the American record. A lot of times at nationals, they have what's called the the nationals record, Chris Gilliam: Yeah, yeah. mike: which is the most weight lifted at high school nationals. And then they have the American record, which is the most weight lifted at any meet. in in the US at that weight class and he actually set bench squad deadlifting and total weight record for team two at one of the national meets and and he was a phenomenal lifter just great lifter he had like this long kind of blonde hair and it kind of like hung down in front of his face and you couldn't really ever see you know it's it's kind of like like Schwarzenegger when he was Conan, right? Like with the hair and all in the way and and and he was a really good lifter. He competed after that And like some Pan Am games. I'm not sure exactly where, but somewhere in Central America he went and and and competed. he was a really good lifter. And then, you know what's crazy is we had a another kid, Brandon Thurlby, and and he was kind of an unsung kind of hero on that team. Brandon lost his dad to cancer that year. And his dad was so involved in everything sports for his kids. He was a great community guy. Lloyd Thurlby was the dad. He was involved in so much with the kids in that grade in the school, just a phenomenal guy. And his dad passed away before in the fall. And and Brandon went to high school nationals that year. And I swear to God, this is gonna sound crazy. And it gives me juice bumps, goosebumps, just kind of talking about it and everything. But came down the last deadlift, and we needed Brandon to pull it to to get whatever place it was that he got. I think that place got him third or fourth. And we kind of knew that that. that points gave us a a chance to to win a team national championship and you know it it was really emotional and he he he pulled that last deadlift and and it was really something and to share those moments with kids when they've given everything that they can literally physically and mentally on a platform and for them to come off the platform and to share that moment with those kids is really cool. it's pretty emotional, right? You know I'm trying to think of where we were at. We were in Louisiana, I think that year. is where it was at and his you know, his mom was there and his sisters and everything, and that was a really cool moment for them as a family just because of their recent tragedy tragedy with their dad. But you know, kind of get a little choked up we talk about that stuff, right? And so we're just kinda moving on there a little bit. But we were we were able to be the raw national champions that year. down in Louisiana. We were in Alexandria, Louisiana, I think, which actually was the best food at any nationals I had been to. that was always my favorite part of going to high school nationals is it was in a different location Chris Gilliam: Yeah. mike: in the country, like somewhere. And Chris Gilliam: Yeah. mike: y you just go and you eat the local food. You're like, this is cool, right? Like I'm gonna go here and go there and Chris Gilliam: So w what was the food that you liked the most there, Coach? Was it like some pole boys? mike: No dude boudin sausage. I was introduced to what's called Boudin sausage and we found this one restaurant that had the crawfish boil and all this stuff, but they had like the sauce that they used, and I don't even know how to describe the sauce like a Remelade Remel remade sauce, whatever. But Chris Gilliam: Mm-hmm. mike: it had some something, whatever. It was so good and they put it with everything. Well, the group that we were with, we went to that restaurant three straight nights in a row for dinner just because we we found a place that we liked and so that was good. I did my first crawfish boil there, which was cool. you know, that was that was a lot of fun. Appleton, Wisconsin, was a cool place, you know, for high school nationals one year and they again that was was really good food. the worst Chris Gilliam: Mm-hmm. mike: experience was probably in Orlando because you lifted at the airport, which was interesting. Chris Gilliam: Yeah. mike: You lift at the hotel in the airport, so you literally just eat cafeteria food in the airport. For two days or three days, however long we were there. Chris Gilliam: Yeah, 'cause it's pretty hard to get out of the the airport to go and get a a restaurant. It's not happening. mike: Yeah. Yeah. Once you get in, you just get in and you stay. And Chris Gilliam: Okay. mike: you know, I believe that was when Shane Nutt had his first national championship individual was in Orlando. I'm pretty sure that's that that was that year, which was really Chris Gilliam: Okay. mike: cool. Me and him and and his mom went down to Orlando and actually our flight got canceled the morning that we were supposed to fly out. So like we had like a six AM flight out of Detroit. And you know, we we flew Spirit because it was cheap. And of course th they're no I Chris Gilliam: Yeah. mike: don't think they're in business anymore because they kept whatever. But like we had to figure out a different way to get there. We flew into like Tampa and then rented a car and drove to Orlando just to get to Nationals and yeah. So that would have been Shane's believe his first national championship, which was pretty cool. So Chris Gilliam: Yeah, would that was that like two thousand sixteen, like when he was a sophomore? Yeah. mike: I think so. Yep. Yep. there was another year when I was at Croslex that we went to Colleen, Texas. And anybody that's done any USAPL stuff knows the name Johnny Graham. And he's one of the main guys in USAPL and he runs all the meets in Clean. It's a it's it's a military base. and Johnny Graham is I believe a former active sniper Guy. so you know, you you you hold him with the utmost respect. Obviously, he carries himself that way too. But he's run meets every year in Kaleen. and when I was at Croslex, we had to fly from Detroit up to Milwaukee and then Milwaukee to Killeen, just because the way our flights were. But our team got separated because of canceled flights, and we were putting kids with parents and Hey, you know, this kid didn't have a parent going, and so they were with coaches. Well, could you go with on this flight? And you know, it was a disaster. And actually, there was a kid from Mount Morris, his name was Tanner Prey, and he was a phenomenal lifter. And his flight got canceled, and he and his brother, who coached him, they drove to Texas. And anybody that does power lifting knows, man, like J the travel is you the travel affects you and he bombed out on squat at Nationals and he should have won. I mean, straight up should've won. but then again, like driving all the way down there being stuck in a car. I just these are just the memories, you know, that kinda pop back in my head of of Chris Gilliam: Sure. mike: of the old times, you know. So Chris Gilliam: Yeah, for sure. I I can totally understand that. Well Chris Whittaker: You would think Orlando would be fun. mike: Yeah, right. You'd think, but you're just stuck in the airport. Like you know, well hey, we're just stuck there, right? And actually, when the the meet was over, my family was on vacation in Florida, at my at their grandparents' house, my in law's place in Florida. So when that meet was over, you know, Shane and his mom flew home and then I j I had to do the rental car and and drive and meet my family who was already on spring break. That was always a thing was like I'd take a picture from Scranton, Pennsylvania, in a hotel ballroom, looking out the window with snow, and I'd send it to my wife and kids who were in Florida on vacation in the pool. And I'm like, Well, you know, I'm in this room with all these meatheads, look at all these guys, right? And they're in the pool. And so spring break when my kids were young, was was was kind of a challenge. And y you know, that that's ultimately kind of led to needing to step away from it as as they got older. But Chris Gilliam: Sure. speaking of that Scranton one, didn't you fly out of there to c catch up with them from spring break? Yeah, I remember talking mike: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Chris Gilliam: to you about it at the meet because that was mike: Mm-hmm. Chris Gilliam: my first high school national meet through the US mike: Yes. Chris Gilliam: APL that I went through with with my daughter and stuff. And it, you mike: Yep. Chris Gilliam: know, it kind of leads into what we were gonna talk about next because, you know, some of your other great leftists, you already talked about Shane Nutt a little bit, but I wanna I wanna talk about him just a little bit more because one thing that sticks out in my mind is that Scranton meat because Coach Whitaker, this is how different it is, all right. So Shane competes equipped, lifts, wins a national championship, but then so their team raw can score more team points, like a day or two later he competes again raw. mike: That was the first year that USAPL had high school raw nationals and equipped nationals during the same week. So we had well c that Colby Pierce kid lifted on like Tuesday or Wednesday J V equipped and then lifted on like Thursday or Friday J V Raw or something. Like those kids did both. And actually, I had kids that they were loaders. at Scranton and they got paid. They got food and they got paid. I had kids that left Scranton with more money in their pocket than what they spent on the whole trip because they're like, like coach, I can work all these sessions and I can just load. Like this is awesome, right? Like I'm, you know, I'm like, dude, go for it, buddy, go for it. Right. Like, Chris Gilliam: Yeah. mike: yeah. So that was the first year. We had we had, I think, four kids that that competed both equipped and raw. We had a girl, Caitlin Wilson. she was a good she was a state champion power lifter and you know she did both of them and you talk about a cool thing for her and you know she actually played football for me in Ionia which was great. you know, just wanted to be a part of stuff and I and I feel like that's what powerlifting offers is kids that want to be a part of something. so anyway, yeah, Chris Gilliam: yeah. mike: Shane, Shane at that meet was was phenomenal, right? Like he so one thing about Shane was When he was fifteen, he deadlifted five hundred. And then his goal was six hundred at sixteen, which he did, and then seven hundred at seventeen, which he couldn't do because he broke his leg playing football in the third game of the season. And the stadium went Chris Gilliam: That was a senior year, right? mike: silent. Yep, yep. he he was our kicker. Football just really wasn't something that he was in love with and powerlifting was and and the kid could kick the football, you know, and I'm like, dude, how about you just come be kicker, right? I'm like, just kick the ball, that's all you gotta do. And and third game of the season, he kicked off and went running down and jumped on the guy's back and kinda tackled him in a way where his leg got turned under and he he snapped Tibia and Fibia fibula. he snapped those bones in the lower leg and and needed some pins and things and The whole stadium went silent because they knew like I mean, this was a kid that was kind of taking it easy, but still being a member of the team and just kinda d and because his big deal was powerlifting and and Chris Gilliam: yeah. mike: it was awful. Now he competed at States that year and I told him, I'm like, Look, at States, can you just like just do an opener and get like third? Because we have a chance to win states Chris Gilliam: Yeah. mike: if you do that. And You know, he he he did like he did one squat. He was like ten pounds away from the state record on his opener, hit it, scratch the next two, I'm good. You know, and he his bench was fine. And then he actually, I think two or three weeks before states, like we were like, Hey, why don't just try pulling sumo? Because it was less stress on that leg and his back had caused him some problems. And so he started pulling sumo and the competition got a little bit kind of you know, kinda heavy and there was a kid from I think like Traverse City West that that, you know, was had a chance, right? And Shane goes up and he's like, All right, so I just he pulled something big, but, you know, his his goal was to deadlift seven hundred at seventeen and it didn't happen, but it happened when he was eighteen. So he's got some some videos out there where he Chris Gilliam: yeah. Like he's he was he was phenomenal. So like Coach Whitaker, just so you understand, like besides the big boys, Shane lifted one sixty five and he pulled six ten as a junior. Like it was one of the most phenomenal things I had seen because he mike: Yeah. Chris Gilliam: he's not overly muscular, but he he's got a good build to him, don't get me wrong. But mike: Right. Chris Gilliam: you know, you didn't look at him in street clothes and go, that kid He's a powerhouse. But mike: Mm-hmm. Chris Gilliam: he was a powerhouse. he went on to Midland University. my daughter and him were teammates there. You know, he lives in Illinois now. He's married, has a kid. So yeah, he's I think he does a lot of like personal training and programming for people, so mike: He got he got really into the online coaching even while he was in high school. And with a lot of the better lifters at Ionia, he ran a lot of their programming because he was just phenomenal at what he did and he just kind of took off with it and and it was great, you know, it was great for him. So Chris Gilliam: yeah, for sure. Yeah. Chris Whittaker: So add to our interview list. mike: There you go. No, Chris Gilliam: Yeah. mike: seriously, because he's very personable. Yeah. I tell you a kid Chris Gilliam: Yeah, yeah. mike: that really kind of kickstarted me in this whole thing was Jimmy Fairchild at Croslex. My second year, he was a freshman and he came in and he set the squat record at the 123 weight class as a like a 275 squat. And he won states as a freshman for the JV. And me being so naive, I was like, dude, you won states. Like, We gotta go to Nationals. Like you gotta go, right? Like you gotta go. And so I looked up some info and this is a crazy story because because Chris, you've been involved in USAPL stuff. So we find out that Nationals is coming up and it's in Alexandria, Louisiana. And I Chris Gilliam: Right. mike: call the guy running the meet, and I'm like, Well, he won states, so he's gotta be qualified, right? And they're like, Well, did he lift at a USAPL meet? And I'm like, I don't even know what that is. And So here's what Jimmy did is him and his dad drove down to Louisiana and the night before nationals, he lifted to hit qualifying total in front of the meet director and two other judges. So they did his qualifier on like a Thursday and he lifted on Friday the next day. Well, and the dad, his his dad has helped coach and helped judge and different things later on and whatever. And so his dad was like trying to figure all this out and And I didn't know any of this stuff. And and he was like he put down his weight in pounds, all of his attempts in pounds, which it's supposed to be in kilos, right? And so obviously, Chris Gilliam: Right. mike: like po you know, the number was huge. And they're like, Does this kid really so anyway, he competed raw in the equipped division as a freshman and ended up taking third? And the dad came home and and he was like, Look, if we're gonna do this, we're gonna do this and we gotta get all in on this. And really from that moment forward. I was all in on powerlifting, you know, coaching it and getting a team. And Jimmy, Jimmy won states four years in a row. I never saw him lose a meet, never took second in anything. ever. I mean, ever. the USAPL stuff, he got third at nationals. Sophomore year, he was a national champion. Junior year, he had a labrum surgery. So he didn't he he might have got like third at as a junior at nationals but then one as a senior at nationals and then like all of our Michigan stuff like he he only took first and he was a bulldog man he Chris Gilliam: Yeah, I remember him. He was a good lifter. He's just a little guy, right? mike: yes he was he was also like five four but he ended up being like a one thirty two but he was I mean he was built you know as a one thirty two so he was a great cross legs lifter Amanda Youngheim same grade was a girl that we took down to nationals and and she was a two time national champion and when i've ran meets in the past she would come and judge for me which was cool like you know she was she'd been out of school five or six years whatever and she would she'd come and judge and everything and she was a really good lifter. She was set to set the bench record and it was like gonna be like a 187 bench or something and she had to cut a little bit of weight. And then her bench shirt was not tight enough and didn't get the pop to really finish. And so we were trying to jack the shirt as much as we could. Chris Gilliam: Right. mike: which is exactly why Reinhardt hates equipped lifting. We've had this discussion before where like a kid'll just throw on like a tighter bench shirt and he'll all of a sudden, you know, do more weight and everything and you know. Chris Gilliam: yeah. Denny Denny shared that with us when when we interviewed him and his episode was a couple of weeks ago that it aired and yeah, we had a nice conversation about that. do y what what can you tell us about I think it's McCall Franks? mike: Absolutely, yeah. McCall Franks. So here's the deal, right? Like when I was at Ionia, she was a like a middle school student when I first got there and she was a phenomenal basketball player. I mean, fast, explosive on the basketball court. and her older sister and her, they just had some disagreements with the basketball coach, right? They just had some family disagreements with the basketball coach. And so she joined powerlifting. that McCall did when she got to high school. And I mean she was an awesome power lifter. And and you talk about a girl that just just dove right into it. And and she was a really lower weight class. She might have like 105, 114 pound pound lifter and and she was really good. And I think that she here's a cool thing about this this sport is a lot of these kids, their career path is along these same lines. Like I do think my I'm pretty sure I heard last time that McCall's into like physical therapy and she does stuff like that with her job. And and it's all just because of she got into powerlifting, right? And got into this and enjoyed it and loved it. And same with Shane Null, you know, he's he's got i a career in this type of stuff. And yeah, McCall was a really good lifter. Really good lifter. I think she has a couple of records. I don't know if they're still up or not. I don't know. I should probably check out the records page some point, but Chris Gilliam: Okay. Yeah, I I remember her specifically. I mean, like she you know, 'cause at that time, which is kind of maybe something we'd talk about a little later, but you know, there's only some so many girls that could beat the Croslex girls during those days. McCall was one of Yeah. mike: Yes, yes. Well and that was the thing is like as soon as Sheila Class helped started coaching at at at Croslex with me, like is you know She just was organized and and just detailed and and she really grew the girls program after I left. Like she was in charge and that was the best thing to do is for her to be in charge and and she she just elevated that girls program. you know, that so many good lifters there. But yeah, you're right, right? McCall gave those girls the run for money quite a bit, so Chris Gilliam: for sure, without a doubt. All right, coach. Chris Whittaker: All right, our next topic is The evolution of the MHS PLA. powerlifting over your time at Ionia changed drastic drastically in the female division. What do you recall from that time? mike: Yeah, so like I said, the first state meet I went to, the girls lifted like four thirty on a Friday and they were done by like seven. You know what I mean? I mean it was just it was just like a hey, just kind of get this through kind of thing. And that would have been in like two thousand and four. you know, we had some good lifters when I was at Croslex up until like two thousand and ten and then Two thousand and nine I left Carl's Lex. Thousand ten I went to Ithaca and actually took a girl, Raina Cervantes was her name, and she was a good lifter at Ionia and she just kinda started it and she competed at States that year. And and that's when you really started seeing more and more girls get involved. And then at at Ionia, like the numbers the years in myonia from eleven to eighteen or nineteen, whatever those eight years were, the number of girls that competed, it just exploded. And I remember talking to guys about well, how are we gonna run meets? You know, like what are we gonna do? Like we we have eight platforms, some meets, some meets wear 10, some we had 12. And and as the numbers were growing, we're like, look, everybody has to have 12 platforms. It's a requirement. You know, you have to do it. And what do we do? Do we do girls only meets? Do we do boys only meets? And Chris, I think at one time we were talking about do we do some meets during the week? Like, do we have a Wednesday meet at Brighton? And there's gonna be like six schools that get invited. and at the time Brighton filled in their pool, made it the new weight room, and they had seating up top. You know what I mean? I'm I'm pretty sure that's what their weight room still is. But I remember talking Chris Gilliam: Yeah, yeah. mike: with Brian Lemons and we're like, you know, can we just run meets in your weight room every Wednesday and just invite some teams and and that kind of thing? And so you know, the the the girls that competed outnumbered the boys for quite a few years. I think that there were more girls at the state meet than the boys. you know it so yeah it it just really took off. But then again you had coaches like Sheila Closs that would that would have a roster of, you know, freaking fifty or sixty girls at Croslex. John Johnson at Port Huron, you know, PH would bring thirty girls, forty girls to a to a meet. you know, so John coached at Croslex with me a little bit when I was there and then He's from Point Huron. So he went after I left or whatever, he after I left Croslex, he he started up a team at PH and and those guys had a really good team. That's why we had a really good meet at Croslex, as our judges ended up being coaches at all these other schools. And so like we literally ran like twelve platforms, but eight of them had guys as a head judge that ended up all being powerlifting coaches. You know what I mean? Like starting up their own program. and that kind of thing. So yeah, the numbers for the the girls just just just kept growing and growing. I do think there was a little bit to the seasons switching with the MHSAA. I think that that opened up more girls in the winter to looking at doing something like powerlifting. Chris Gilliam: yeah. I I that wouldn't shock me at all. I mean that that probably would be when you started getting a little bit of a growth. I I have a philosophy. What do you think about once the sport went raw and we eliminated singlets? Do you think that could have helped more girls want to mike: Yep. Absolutely. Chris Gilliam: participate? mike: Yep. for sure. For sure. And actually that was the first state meet I was at when we had the vote to switch. And the the the powerlifting meet states that year was at at Goodrich. And we got in this long hallway and we had to this vote, right? And guys pleaded their case and then we did a vote. And what happened was the football coaches didn't want to have to compete against the powerlifting coaches, right? The football coaches just wanted their kids to compete and lift and get big and get strong. They way outnumbered the powerlifting coaches, you know. And Chris Gilliam: Yeah. mike: again, that would have been that would have been Todd Miller. that would have been the Zince Masters, you know, over Chris Gilliam: Yeah. mike: at Flint Powers. I'm trying to think them, I'm sure there's a few others. Actually, Richmond had a really good powerlifting team for a while as an equipped. school. But they it was a paid position too, so their their coach actually got paid f to do it. But I Chris Gilliam: Yeah, so I th I wanna think the the the last and we talking to Denny, the last year we remember like that it w there was a lot of equipped lifters was the Plainwell State meet, I think in six. And then mike: Yeah, yeah. Chris Gilliam: Reinhart says and I I don't recall this specifically myself, but the next year two thousand seven, kids that wanted to lift equipped did at Muskegon, but mike: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Chris Gilliam: it they were their own div own day and own meet in seven. mike: Yep. And and and that, yes, that that is when it really yes, I I remember you could do either. You could do raw or equipped. And for a lot of kids, it was, you know, the cost, right? Cost of a bench shirt, cost of a squat suit, getting it sized right, and then having somebody that knew how to use Chris Gilliam: Yeah. mike: the bench shirt, how to how to break in a brand new bench shirt, right? Like, you know, all Chris Gilliam: Well. mike: these things. And and and so it just became easier for kids to just go to the weight room. You know, shorts and a t-shirt and a belt, and then they would compete. You know, they could compete the same way. I do think It really set powerlifting back nationally at when that happened. you look at some of these old guys that you talk to. I mean, Soferno and and Todd Miller and and Denny Reinhardt like Michigan was one of the best represented states at USAPL nationals and actually multiple national championships. I mean, Mount Morris won a high school national championship, you know. I mean, Montrose won a high school national championship. And once we no longer did equipped, nobody went to Nationals. You know, because Nationals at the time, there was no raw. There was no raw. And a couple years ago, I I took some kids from my from Croslex over to Nationals, I think two years ago. And like everybody lifts raw. I mean, Chris Gilliam: Mm-hmm. mike: everybody lifts raw and nobody lifts a quip. So I started like I I I I emailed the guy at Midland and and I'm like, hey, you know. You got any old equipment, you know, bench shirt, squatsuits, hey, just send them our way. We're gonna start the equip lifting back up. And and I had some kids that that got into it and they they lifted equipped and and that you know, so that we've had a few kids at Crawl's X go equipped. I'm gonna tell you this: the most pumped up and jacked I've ever been is the first lifter on an equipped meet when you gotta wrap their knees. The time is counting down. So, Coach Whitaker, I don't know if you've been to USAPL meet, but what they do is they say, so and so bars loaded, and then there's a timer. And it's a one minute timer to get your squat command. Okay. So you have to get your kid with his knees wrapped, all wrapped up and yanked tight, get him out on the platform and get him under that bar. They have to walk out and then be set in order to get their squat command, right? So All that has to happen in a small amount of time. Cause you don't want a kid in a pair of knee wraps and their squat suit and their belt latched and tight. You don't want them in there for a long time. They're in there for a long time and and they they lose feeling in those legs because the the the the knee wraps are so tight. And when I when I was coaching, like it was like it was just a rush. You're in there just boom, yanking the the the the knee wraps and and that scranton meat. God, I think I had four. Fourteen kids lift, but I think s six of them maybe lifted both. So like literally I had twenty kids that I was coaching. And it was it was I really think it was Wednesday, th Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. It might have been five days or six of double sessions. I mean, straight through. me and another guy, Dave Pierce, we we coached all those kids on all those platforms just wrapping knees and just going and and I would just get so pumped up in that moment of, you know, you want you you gotta get this kid out there and and I don't know. That's that's one thing I do miss, right? Is the knee wrap and I I I always kinda liked it. I don't know we're we're Chris Gilliam: Sure. I understand that. Yeah. I mean it it's different. mike: nowhere near on topic with that question, but that's all right. Chris Gilliam: No, I no, I think it's great because you know, honestly the things that I remember is, you know, a little bit of both. Like we had all that going on even in the MHS PLA. And mike: I remember. Chris Gilliam: I guess I didn't realize it till you mentioned it that that Scranton meet was the first time Raw w was taking place at USAP L. 'Cause mike: You have to speak to the general. Chris Gilliam: as far as high school nationals, because you know, I took mike: I don't know how Chris Gilliam: my daughter to that, but she had competed the summer mike: fast it's on Google's chart. Chris Gilliam: before in Columbus at the Midwest R you know, regional meet and stuff. and so I had already taken her to a couple of USAPL meets. It's just a different cat, you know, kilos and all that stuff. It just it's so much way different. But, you know, when you have the equipped mixed in there and, you know, it just it it makes it entertaining to be to be honest. So mike: Well and and you you obviously everybody knows the the announcer at the USAPL meets, he's dressed up as the pirate, you know, yeah, Gino, Chris Gilliam: Do you know? Yeah. mike: right? he he is a legend and you know he he makes those those meets. I told him that one time. I said, dude, just so you know, like the kids that compete, like they love what you do. Like you make this more than just a powerlifting competition. Like you make it. Right. I told Gino that one. I said, dude, you don't know me. I'm nobody important. I'm just here. I'm coaching some kids, Chris Gilliam: Yeah. mike: but I'm just telling you, man, like you make this thing what it is. And the kids love it. absolutely, right? And I tell Chris Gilliam: yeah. Well every kid wants their picture with right? Yeah. mike: you what, he's getting old. You know what I mean? Like, I don't know how many more years he's got this whole thing going because dude, the dude goes hard two sessions, six days in a row, six days in a row, you know. I mean Chris Gilliam: Yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. He he puts in a lot of work and time, but he makes the energy great at all those big mike: Yeah. Chris Gilliam: meets. So there's been a rise in participation with middle school students over the the last few years. did you allow middle school students to participate at Ionia? mike: When I was at Ionia, we never really had a kid do it. But I would have, I would have been fine with it. I I don't think we had a middle school kid. I do remember somebody doing at a meet, like having a seventh grader lift because they were trying to load their J V team. And I remember like the first time 'cause you know, being on the board, I'm like, seventh grader? What you know, what's this, right? And then somebody hands you the rule book and you're like, yeah, all Seventh through twelfth grade. okay, cool, right? Let's throw in, right? But I don't think I ever really had a middle school kid compete. you know, maybe here or there some kids did if they wanted to, but yeah, I I don't think I ever really did. But I mean, it's a great thing. I mean, you know, you you teach them how to lift, you teach them how to spot, you know, you you you you get involved early and and and I think it's a great thing. So yeah. Chris Gilliam: Okay. Awesome. Coach Worlicker? Chris Whittaker: So regional qualifying meets have changed over the years. they're once run as independent meets with the MHS PLA only having a major influence on the state meet at the end of the season. do you recall what conversations took place that caused the push for standardized meets at regional qualifiers? mike: Yeah, yeah. You know, the the thing with being on the board, right? And and see the thing is like when you're a board member, people are like, you're a board member and I and all I tell people is like, look, I just volunteered to like do work. So they're like, Yeah, just you should be on the board then. I'm like, Okay, right, like sure, I'm gonna do I'm gonna help work these things. Like that that's great. So that's how I ended up on the board, I guess. I like, Well look, guys, you need help with stuff, I'll help out, right? And Whatever. And then you know, you kind of just keep going to meets and people start asking you questions. And then they think that you know everything. And you're like, right, I don't really know everything. And so it it just I I don't know. But the standardizing of the regional meets was always a big deal, especially with weigh-ins. Weigh-ins was always the difficult thing because we allowed home weigh-ins for a long time. And there'd be kids that would go to a regional meet and literally be two, three percent body weight over. You know what I mean? If not more, right? you know, a a two seven pound kid literally could have weighed two twenty the day that he competed, but as long as he was under two seven, everything was fine. You know what I mean? Once they got once they qualified and went to states. And that was a big issue. That was a big push, is the on-site weigh-ins. And the experience with USAPL, you have to weigh in no earlier than an hour and a half. prior to your competition. So like if lifting starts at nine, then weigh in started at like 730 or something like that. Or they had to be done within a half hour, whatever. Well, like Danny Reinhard was telling these stories of having these kids and it just slowed down the meat because you couldn't get them all weighed in in time. And if they were over, then they went and they ran until they could make weight. And we were always so worried that a meet wouldn't start on time, the meat would take forever and the meat wouldn't be run well and and You know, so the the standardizing of the the regional meets honestly was driven by Sheila. She because she was very, you know, hey, look, Chris Gilliam: Yeah, yeah. mike: this is how it is, this is how it's gotta be. And and it was great because her mentality with that kept all of us guys in check. You know, it really did. It kept all of us kind of like, Yep, hey, look, we know you're right. You're right, Sheila. This is the way that we should do this. Yeah, all right. So then, you know, we had to fall in line and and it was But you know, the biggest thing was kids weighing way over their body weight because they didn't have to weigh in on site. That was a big deal. one of the other big deals was, you know, trophies and medals at a regional. it's a it was a big fundraiser, right? Everybody wanted to host a meet because you would walk out of there with with good money in your pocket for your program. And some people would get really chintzy and cheap with the medals and the trophies. And so that was another issue. You know, we had to order. trophies and medals for the regionals. I think it was usually by either Halloween. We had to have the schedule set and we had to order trophies and medals by Thanksgiving. That way we got them in time for those first meets in January. And that was a big deal, you know, trying to streamline the meets. that one of the comments was at every meet is, Wow, the judging is the judging sucks. the judges suck. the judges. And it like, you know, you'll you won't get away with that at states, right? Well Look, I ran states. Like you're gonna have judges that let kids squat high, right? I mean, you tell me that you're gonna have forty guys that can sit in there and judge all day and not not be, you know, great at judging. I mean, it's gonna happen. And so people would always make, Well, you won't get away with that at states. And I'm like, Shut up. Yeah, yeah, you are. You are, right? Everybody who's ran Chris Whittaker: Yeah. mike: the state meet knows I'm gonna have issues on platform six. Why? 'Cause I got a couple guys there that It is what it is, right? It you know, so I don't know. I Chris Gilliam: Well, especially we going back to when the girls lifted on Friday night, once the girls' state meet started getting to be three hundred, four hundred girls, like you're getting really close to midnight. P people mike: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Chris Gilliam: are realizing I gotta turn around and be back here at seven in the morning for tomorrow too. Like, yeah, I mike: Okay. Yep. Yep. Chris Gilliam: I think some deadlifts got through that shutting mike: Yes. Chris Gilliam: up. mike: Yeah. Chris Whittaker: Yeah. mike: Well and and y you know, your workers, right? Like you Chris Gilliam: Yeah. mike: had to have two shifts of workers. You had to have a Friday crew and a Saturday crew. And if you if anybody was gonna do both, like you just loved that person, you know, like you Chris Gilliam: Mm-hmm. mike: you were full praise of that person. you know, judging is always gonna be the hard thing. It is. I mean it's it's tough. you know, I had an idea at one point in time where Every kid has to be a member of MHS PLA and they pay a twenty dollar membership fee. So if there's a thousand kids and they all pay twenty bucks, you know, you've now got a large sum of money that you can pay your judges. You know, so if you know these these, you know, these twelve guys at your place that hey, they're open on these other days and they want to go get paid, you know, 150 bucks to sit and judge because they're a certified judge, pay And now the association had money. You know, to do that, right? You could divide up what your money was amongst the regionals and you could tell the meet director, look, if you've got guys that are certified, and and you want to pay hey, here's your money to pay And the hard part was is like, well, how do you get a membership database? And now with Google Sheets, I'm sure this would be pretty easy for somebody, but you know, then then the association itself had money just because it was a membership and you had some teeth to the drug testing. I know Denny was always big on we need to drug test. And we I'm sure he I'm sure it came up when he maybe I don't know, maybe it did or not, but on his interview Chris Gilliam: yeah. mike: probably, we went to lengths of how do we drug test, you know, and and do we do the polygraph was what he suggested at times. And when I was in Ionia, right, there are five fully functional prisons in the city of Ionia, right? And so I asked some people like. How would I get a polygraph done? You know what I mean? Like we're thinking of doing this. Like, is this feasible? You know? So like some of the corrections officer guys, you know, got me in contact with somebody and they're like, you know, it's not a good way to do this. And so we kind of dropped that topic. but Chris Gilliam: Okay. Entertaining some possibilities. mike: Yeah, yeah. I mean the biggest thing is the urine test would be the most, you know, secure way to do it and whatever. But then well, and Chris, you with your experience of USAPL, I'm sure you had a kid that got pulled to test, you know, and so they have to be supervised when they go with another person to do the urine sample. And I mean, it's, you know, a mistake I made at the first time I went to Appleton, Wisconsin was I didn't take Monday off of school after the meet. So we lifted Sunday at at whatever time and it got done at like two. Well, then I had I had a kid who had to do the urine test. So we literally didn't leave Appleton, Wisconsin till like five o'clock. And it all the way back to Ionia. I don't know how many hours it was, but I slept like three hours and then got up and went to school the next day. And I'm like, I should've had this day off. Chris Gilliam: Yeah. yeah, for sure. No, yeah, that that'll that'll put a little wrinkle in the plans. Coach, I'm gonna skip down to the next section there because he's already mike: But now it's actually Chris Gilliam: answered some of the other ones. so board member presidency days, let's talk about those a little bit. you already kind of talked about how you stepped into a a role on on the on the board. how many years did you serve as president for the Michigan High School Power Lift? mike: I think I think four. I think I was four Chris Gilliam: Awesome. mike: and I was two as like the vice president kind of thing and Chris Gilliam: Okay. So who did you take over from? mike: Brian Lemons would have been Brian. Yeah. Yeah. Chris Gilliam: Okay, so it's Brian Lemons before you. Okay, that's that's what we figured. But, you know, I was around the sport but I wasn't on the board during those times I got on the board, you know, during your presidency. but I think it might have been the mike: James Plasmont Day of Score it has been and it does quite Spain. We might have a big bike. Chris Gilliam: your first year is when I ended up joining 'cause I know lemons had stepped down or whatever, you know. So mike: Right. Well, I think that's when he got the job at Brighton, right? Chris Gilliam: Yeah. mike: And so that's kind of why he wanted to step away or something like that. You know, he was he was moving away from powerlifting a little bit more. and so he just, you know, that was kind of why he did that. But I remember I was not a board member and Muskegon hosted the state meet and I was sitting in the coaches meeting and they were talking about like people that could judge a record attempt and they asked like Is anybody a US APL judge? And I actually I had started my state referee judging through USAPL to be a certified state judge for that. And I'm like, Well, I've kind of started my thing, and they're like, Well, hey, all right, hey, you can judge a state state record attempt. And I'm like, All right, cool, like, you know, that's fine. And so that was like my first time at a meet, kind of stepping forward, just trying to be more involved in what was going on. and and after that. Just with some of the other guys that were always at the meets, you know, you end up solving problems together, right? That's what happens. Like, you know, okay, so the bar was misloaded and there was a two and a half on one side and not a two and a half on the other. Okay, well, we can't give the credit for lifting 137 and a half pounds, right? So what are we gonna do? You know what I mean? Like they get credit. What do they get credit for? Well, they only get credit for 135 because we can't they can't match. Somebody else can't match, you know what I mean? So those are things that like the coaches that knew what was going on and had experience and and had been around enough, we always just started talking about what are we gonna do with this, how do we solve that problem and that was always kinda fun with the board member guys running meets. Chris Gilliam: Okay. Good. Which one again? Chris Whittaker: So looking back in your time as president, what were three board accomplishments or policy changes that you're most proud of? mike: Get getting the state meet to be split. That was huge. So at at Ionia I ran the last fully combined state meet. And I don't know if we talked about this before being on the air or whatever, but we had like eleven hundred lifters lift at states. J V girls, varsity girls, J V boys, varsity boys on a Saturday, Sunday double session, both days. we allowed kids to weigh in on Friday night just because we knew we had to get everybody through. so Friday night we did weigh-ins at at our school and we had the I don't know if the girls or boys lifted Saturday and one lifted Sunday, or if we did J V varsity, whatever. But that was a huge undertaking and Like I I paid Alma College's football kids, like I paid their football program like five grand to send me guys to judge. You know what I mean? Like th they sent like forty some football guys and they all helped judge the meat and kind of thing. And so that that was kind of cool. That was nice to be able to have that much, you know, backup from one of these guys. But I would say getting the meat to no longer be one big event was was good. and then The other two things would be whatever Sheila wanted to do that she thought was the right thing to do. And I just said, yes, that's awesome. Let's do that, right? Like you know, the the the home weigh-ins being eliminated was big. That was. And and getting schools to have enough scales for the weigh-ins on site. it gave validity to a kid, you know, lifting out of regional and qualifying for states. Like that was the thing, is like kids would get bumped out of qualifying because a kid lifted in the one fifty five weight class and he lifted he he weighed a hundred and sixty five pounds that day. But when it came to the state meet he didn't even lift at one fifty five, he lifted in one sixty five. Well, when he qualified at one fifty five, he bumped a kid out. And so those were always the things that we were like, you know, can we do an in home weigh and you know, that those would be two big things. I don't know if there was a third or not, but Chris Gilliam: You don't. mike: Yeah, those would be two two big ones. Chris Whittaker: Yeah, absolutely. Chris Gilliam: Okay, so going on, like what was the single most difficult administrative or structural change that you faced while you were the president? And how did the board go about resolving it? mike: Can get their race, being able to control the impactful type or do I need to go. Actually the one for the front before you want to be past strongly not too Yeah. you know, just like gray areas and rules here, right? Was always a pain to deal with. Because like guys would call leading into the state meet. Hey, I have a kid that he's supposed to He wants to lift the 155 or the 165 weight class, but he weighs below that. He weighs 154, but he wants to bump up. And I'm like, Well, you don't. Like, we you have to weigh within what we do. And he's like, Well, yeah, but he qualify he has the enough weight to lift 165, but he weighs 154. And just the going back and forth with people on some of that stuff, that was always the part I didn't like the most, was like. Chris Gilliam: Yeah. mike: You're trying to circumvent the rules on what's going on to individually Chris Gilliam: Right. mike: benefit your kid. Now, you know, and I said, Well, in case of a tie, your kid automatically wins just because you're choosing to bump anyway, like that was hard and the other thing was like we we hodgepodged our rules, you know, USAP rules USAPO rules apply, except for all these, you know, that were not Chris Gilliam: Yeah. mike: USAPO rules, right? There's no start command on bench, right? There's, you know, the the way the judging is and and different stuff like you know you could say people would say well aren't we following us a po rules and it's like well to a point yeah and then some of them were not so no Chris Gilliam: Mm-hmm. mike: that was always I think the the the biggest thing was the you know people finding gray area or loopholes in in what was going on and you just had to be like hey I love what you're saying it sounds great but like we can't do that Right. Like it just it just can't be a a precedent that gets set. So yeah, that that's what I would say is the biggest challenge. Chris Gilliam: Gotcha. Chris, you want to go to number twenty two? Chris Whittaker: We can. Head on number question number twenty two brings us into the topic of Board dynamics and leadership advice. what do you see as the n what do you see as the next major milestone or disruptive challenge the current board needs to prepare for in the next five years? mike: I I guess one thing would be what if the sport doubles in size again? Right. Like like I I was a part of the sport and from what 2004 to 2018 or 19, whatever, like why we probably tripled in size. Right? Like so what if there's this certain number of lifters that we have now and it doubles, right? Like know talking with coach Zelinski at Croslex, he's like, look, I have to send my email at right at whatever time with my roster. Otherwise we don't get in. And and that's that's that's hard, right? That's a challenge, right? We want these kids to compete. They want to compete. maybe whatever the meet three weeks down the road is they have a conflict and they they perse a kid personally can't go to that meet. So now what? Right? So like Exiting kids out of meats because of caps. That's hard. But it needs to be established. I mean, it needs to happen. Because a meat has to run. Like the USAPO rules, like no flight can be more than 15 or 16 lifters. So, like, if there's 60 kids in a weight class, they will go four flights at USAPO. And that's a good thing for the lifter. But it's a bad thing if you're running a gigantic meet with six hundred lifters, right? So those are always the challenges and I think that that would be a huge challenge is what happens if we double again, you know, or or get half as much bigger. You know, that could be a huge challenge. Chris Gilliam: yeah, for sure. I mean one of the things that we're hoping to improve on is like we've divided the state into technically regions now. We've zoned out the state and so now we get get if the meet is within your zone, you get first priority. If mike: Yeah. Chris Gilliam: you are an adjoining zone, you get the second priority, you know, and mike: Yeah. Chris Gilliam: so we're doing that to eliminate the other thing I think that helps is the sooner you get the schedule out. people can like plan their their meets ahead of time. You know, I I think no matter what, it you know, we'll probably face it this year too. We already have the schedule. But there could be a couple issues that arise where schools have to something comes up they can't host now and we're we may have to try and replace them. Or if we can't replace them, we have fewer meets and opportunities. That's always gonna be a challenge. You know, I think it it was a challenge mike: Say I would say two more ideas. two more ideas of challenges would be the competitive balance in regions, because sometimes the west side of Michigan didn't have a whole lot of good lifters. But yet you have a meet Genesee County or s just south of Genesee County, you're gonna get great lifters. Now, this was also back when third place or better or qualifying total qualified you for states. And I know that we go down to we, you it's like it's like top 20 ish or whatever. but at the same point, like Is how do you handle a competitive balance across Michigan? Yeah, because there is Chris Gilliam: Hmm. Yeah. mike: that that was a big thing when I was there, was is the competitive balance. That was tough. And then the other challenge is always being open to letting a new school host a meet for the first time ever and just deal with the bull crap that happened and get them through it. Right. Like, Chris Gilliam: Yeah. mike: you know, I'd show up to a meet. Nobody would know who I was and that is totally fine. But I'd see stuff happening at a table and I'd be like, Hey, look, can I just help you? Like this is this is how you gotta do this. And they're like, No, no, no. So and so come here. This guy's telling me something. I'm like, I I don't wanna be like, here's my badge, but like, here's my badge, like just please just do it this way. And that is just a huge challenge because you need new people every year running a meet. You know, I mean Oxford's done pretty well, right? And they were new Chris Gilliam: Mm. mike: as I was leaving. Henry Ford, same thing. They were new as I was leaving. And so you have to have new schools do a meet, but you've got to be ready to eat that crap sandwich that you're gonna have to eat as the guy who's there helping them run this the meet because something Chris Gilliam: yeah, for sure. mike: something's not gonna go right and and you just get through it. Chris Gilliam: Yeah, I'm with you. I mean, we're gonna have four new hosts. I mean, technically one's an old host, but it's a new person at the school. so yeah, we're gonna have that challenge this year. We're mike: And you know I've always got stuff. Chris Gilliam: trying to do our best and you know, you know how we created like the clinic to try and train people. We're we're gonna mike: Yeah. Chris Gilliam: revamp that a little bit and change it up, to get people. So now we got a waiting list and if you wanna host the next year. mike: Yeah, just out of Chris Gilliam: you have to attend the clinic with X number of people so we know that you're trained and that they can train the rest. So we're trying to mike: the future. Chris Gilliam: address that so everybody's more comfortable with new people hosting. but yeah, I that that definitely has been a a challenge or issue because if you don't let some of these schools host, maybe your numbers start dropping. mike: You know, one other big thing I think that's right. What do you what are you gonna do at that point when you know it's the same four schools and and then now you've you've shrunk. But you know, one of the other things I was gonna say that was a big improvement during the time that I was on the board president there was the the electronic scoring. The electronic scoring all of a sudden just was a game changer. I remember sitting in the back room hand scoring meets. And you know, you're double checking numbers, you're double checking because there's nothing worse than saying, Hey, you know, Billy got fifth place and you know, Tommy got fourth place, and you hand out medals, and all of a sudden, like, you know, people come up and they're like, No, no, no, no, no. And so Chris Gilliam: Yeah. mike: we used to hope that certain platforms would finish before others because we could start scoring platform two, right? And all of a sudden they were done and hey, platform six is done. All well, you know. And and but it it always came down to it like the meet would be over, everything would be cleaned up and put away, and there were people still hand scoring in the room. And so the electronic scoring, actually that kind of started when Sheila Kloss and I, her Sheila's husband Denny is a tech wizard, man. Like he's so we went to Nationals and they the program that they used was created by a husband and wife with the their last name was Mark Steiner's. That was their last name. And they had a daughter who had passed away. and they did a if you donated to the foundation that they had in her name, you got access to this online scoring program. And so that's when Chris Gilliam: Mm-hmm. mike: like we like we hosted a push pull meet and we we live scored it. we were the first one to kind of do the live scoring. And Denny could alter stuff and kind of tech wizard that kind of stuff. And I think when Todd Miller hosted his meet at Mona Shores with Matt Koziac. They kind of teamed it up. And I think Todd was able to change the program at that point to make it the live scoring version that we have now, probably. but that live scoring was it was a game changer, man, because you would literally sit Chris Gilliam: One of time saver. mike: forty five minutes after the last lifter and you're waiting and you're waiting and you know. Chris Gilliam: Yeah. mike: th they would start the the the awards and then have to stop and wait fifteen minutes because, you know, you didn't have you didn't have the two sevens on up scored yet. You know, so Chris Gilliam: Right. mike: that was I would think that I I guess when you ask like some th improvements, that was a that was a big one. that was a big one. Chris Gilliam: for sure, yeah. All right, we're gonna start our lightning round, our speed round. You ready for that, Coach Whitaker? I'll let you start it up. Chris Whittaker: Speed round. Coach, real quick, first thing comes to your head. What's your favorite lift? Squat, bench press, deadlift. mike: By far the deadlift, man. You can't cheat it. You can't cheat it. I I love it. You know, there that you can arch like crazy on a bench, right? There's things you can do on the squat, but the deadlift is where it's at. We took we had on our shirt when I was in Ionia, deadlift university. Chris Gilliam: Yeah. mike: nobody out deadlifts us. As soon as the bar hits the ground, that is when competition just started rolling. So I know it's lightning round. I'm just gonna talk too much. We were at Nationals and Glenn Mills was a school outside of Philadelphia. And they had kids when it came to the third deadlift, their whole team would go stand in the in the sec like in the the the crowd, and they had it was it was the Glenn Mills clap and it was while the kid was getting ready to go deadlift and the whole crowd did it and it was only on like meaningful third deadlifts. And it was it was unbelievable. It changed the whole environment at Nationals. And when I got to Ionia I was like, We are we are going to be deadlift university, man. That hey, sorry about lightning. Yeah, that was a slow lightning. Chris Gilliam: That's awesome. No, that's good. are you high bar or low bar on squat? mike: Low bar. Low bar for sure. And then that was also one of the rules where the thumb does not have to be around the bar on squat. I fought that for years. Like I get bench, yeah, for sure. But thumbless grip. Actually I started teaching the thumb would go under, but the the pinky finger would be under. And so now when you get that position, you can turn and tuck in that low bar. So the pinky, we call it the claw grip, right? So you you took the pinky underneath of it and you could really turn that in the low bar, man. That was Chris Gilliam: Nice. mike: That was the stuff. Chris Gilliam: Good. Chris Whittaker: Dimensional or sumo deadlift. mike: Conventional. Conventional, conventional, conventional. What is it? Like eight out of the ten greatest deadlifts in the world have all been conventional. You know, it would take a certain kid for me to be like, yeah, about a year year similar. Chris Gilliam: Your favorite accessory exercise for the squat. mike: Ooh, yeah, lightning round. I mean I guess I guess RDLs probably. I have a pretty crappy glute hand machine where I'm at right now, so I gotta throw that one out the window. so probably an RDL, yeah. Chris Whittaker: Favorite accessory for the bench press. mike: Boards, board press. Because we get the hip and the leg drive, board press. Chris Gilliam: Favorite accessory exercise for deadlift. mike: Didn't really ever do one. it was it it was just set your program on the deadlift and go. Yeah, I didn't really ever do one. Chris Gilliam: Okay. Awesome. Are there any shout outs Chris Whittaker: Alright coat. Chris Gilliam: or thank yous you want to give, Coach, before we sign off? mike: Shout outs. Well, I mean, you know, I said it about my wife, like, you know, we were first married, whatever, and I was gone at meets all the time. Our kids were born. I mean, my older daughter sat at a meeting and she wasn't even born yet, you know. Chris Gilliam: Yeah. mike: so it was a big deal for me, to be gone on spring break away from my family, you know, at to Nationals. running meets and having my wife there helping and and she would say it, she's like, This is the only time you get to boss me around kind of thing and you know what I mean? 'Cause I'd tell her, I I I need you to do this and this but you know, definitely just my wife and kids just just being patient with me loving the sport and doing it, by far. And then the next would definitely be like like Sheila Closs, man. I mean, she was great. you know, she was awesome to to to coach with and And I guess lastly the two guys I coached that I own you with, Jim Batista and Chad Reinert and and and Dave Dave Pierce, the three of us, we went to Nationals and and we had a ton of fun together. we stay in the hotel for a week and go eat food together stuff. And I remember at one point time saying to those guys like to Chad and Jimmy, because they didn't have kids that that lifted. Their kids were younger. And I'm like, you know, you think anybody's gonna do stuff for our kids the way we do stuff for other people's kids and It was kind of always a topic that we kinda kicked around. Like, you know, like we're we're putting a lot of time in other people's kids and I just hope that at some point somebody does, you know, for my kids what what we've done. But those guys were all great to coach with. so those definitely be some shout outs, I guess. Chris Gilliam: Awesome. Well, we appreciate your time, Mike. thanks for being with us. Thanks for your service for the Michigan High School Power Lifting Association. Don't be a stranger. I think we still have some mike: Yeah. Well, one of twenty two sixty would get you more than closer to the fucking battery. Chris Gilliam: things going on and we've talked about some different things. one thing that you know you and I had talked to off onto the side, and just to let you know, we're gonna start a Hall of Fame. So mike: Yes. I think you can go back a long ways and find some guys that, you know, were a part of those teams in the eighties that that did power lifting that were great lifters. And I think there's just a really good history for Michigan High School powerlifting for sure. Chris Gilliam: For sure. Yeah. And I mean, if you ever get a chance to go listen to some of the podcasts, Tim Ferno started it in nineteen seventy eight. mike: So Tim and my dad both went to Northern together. My dad Tim I don't think Tim played football up there, but they both were at Northern at the same time. My dad played football in Northern and he he coached at Birch Ron and he coached some different areas, right? Yeah, he coached and he coached against Farneau and everything. And so, you know, he always kinda knew Tim and and I always kinda knew who he was and actually competed against his son a little bit in high school, just a couple of different things. but yeah, Tim Tim is an old, old legend in the power lifting game for sure. So Chris Gilliam: Yeah. He hasn't changed much either, I'll tell you that. He's the same mike: Yeah. Chris Gilliam: person he was a who listening to and talking to. But yeah, so that's our connection, Coach Whitaker, Bert Run. His dad was a a coach there, well before my time, but he had a lot of success there. mike: My my brother and sister ha have pictures at the Little League complex that is now where the mall is. Chris Gilliam: Yeah. mike: That is no longer the little league fields I got, I don't know, something. I remember my parents telling me that like, this is where the mall now became. Chris Gilliam: Yeah, 'cause that used to be the that was the community park was where the outlets are right now. So yeah. Yeah, for mike: Yeah. Chris Gilliam: sure. I've seen all the old photos and stuff like that. But well one of the greatest things ever was in Appleton, Wisconsin. I walk in the street and I got to meet your dad for the first time and and mike: yeah. Chris Gilliam: talk to him and stuff and he was like, so you're the Birch Run guy And I was I'm like, No, you're the Birch Run guy. mike: Right, right, right. Well, they were in the UP They were up my Chris Whittaker: Ha ha ha. mike: grandparents' cottage was outside of Iron Mountain. And so they were like, Well, we'll come to Appleton, we'll drive and you know, we'll watch your kids lift or whatever. And it you know, they they love doing that kind of stuff. And Chris Gilliam: Yeah. mike: you know, he he's he had fond always had fond memories of Birch Run and and you know, he followed you guys for sure. He always knew what you guys were doing. Chris Gilliam: Yeah. And and have some conversations with him and I appreciate you. mike: Well there was some other there were some other really good names on that coaching staff. Bob Buckle was on the coaching staff. Chris Gilliam: Yeah. mike: I mean everybody knows Mike my god. geez. well anyway, Joe Ricard was the basketball coach at Nouvelle and at Bay City Chris Gilliam: Yeah. mike: Central, had the Divendorf kid, right? Was really good. everybody knows Mike Callahan. Chris Gilliam: Yeah. mike: Mike Callahan was on that coaching staff at the time and so, you know, he just just the guys that that he had around him. I mean, he would obviously my dad would say those guys were the reason that they were good. Chris Gilliam: Yeah, and th well yeah, Picard and Callahan were middle school coaches for me when I took over. So they spent a long time there. They did all the levels. mike: A lot of years, man. Chris Gilliam: By the time I got there, those guys didn't want to do any more high school or anything. They're just they're totally fine with just doing middle school and you know, eventually they they both retired and moved on, but I appreciated them and you know, and there's always good connections there, so mike: Yep, Chris Gilliam: Thanks again for your time, Mike. Appreciate ya. mike: I I loved it. it's a great sport, man. It's got something for everybody. That's a cool thing. Executing driving detail. Chris Whittaker: All right. Thank you again, Coach. This has been another episode of the platform where the stories weigh a ton. And that does it for another episode of the platform here, folks. A huge thank you to Coach Mike Holes for joining Coach Gillam and myself and sharing some incredible stories from his years coaching and serving in the Michigan High School Powerlifting Association. One of the biggest takeaways from today's conversation is that the association we have today didn't just happen. It was built by coaches, athletes, parents, volunteers, and families who were willing to put in the work. From the early days of equip lifting to national championships. Thousand athlete state meets, electronic scoring, and the continued growth of girls' powerlifting here in our state. There are a lot of people who helped get us to where we are. And that's exactly why we're excited about the establishment of the MHSPLA Hall of Fame. For the first time, our association will have a formal way to recognize lifters, coaches, and contributors who have made a lasting impact on Michigan High School power. Nominations are now open, and we encourage everyone to think about the people who have helped build this sport. The coaches who gave their time, the athletes who raised the standard, the individuals behind the scenes who made it all possible. Three to five individuals be selected for the inaugural class for the special ceremony the night before the varsity state meet and recognition during the championship meet the following day. You'll find the official Hall of Fame criteria in our show notes and Don't forget, during the upcoming powerlifting season, the platform where we're bringing you weekly Wednesday evening episodes highlighting the regional championships, outstanding performances, and conversations with our meet directors. If you enjoyed today's episode, please like, subscribe, give us a rating, review, and share with someone who loves Michigan High School powerlifting. And support the podcast and the association by visiting our fourth ball shop, MHSPLA dash shop dot forthball.com. Until next time, keep building the sport. Keep developing young people and keep putting weight on the bar. This has been an episode of the platform for the stories way a time.