Latest / Wildlife and Adventure Photography / Speaking with international filmmaker and wildlife conservationist Suyash Keshari

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Speaking with international filmmaker and wildlife conservationist Suyash Keshari · Wildlife and Adventure Photography

• 0:17
  > Graham>Okay, well, welcome to the podcast and I'm actually quite excited to have Suesh Chari Char o Excellent.
• 0:29
  > Suesh Chari>No problem.
• 0:30
  > Graham>I have a go. Yeah, you know, as usual, I'm just demonstrating my linguistic capabilities here on the podcast.
• 0:37
  > Suesh Chari>All good, all good. It is a tricky one.
• 0:41
  > Graham>Yes. So Cash has quite an amazing background and yeah, I'ACTUALLY what I'm going to do, and I don't normally do this is actually attach his bio to a link in the podcast description.
• 0:53
  > Graham>So I thought first of alles, before we get into it, maybe you could just talk us through what you've been doing and I have a bit of a following in India and so you guys, if you're listening, you might well be familiar with s so over to you su as maybe if you could introduce yourself to the rest of the listeners, that d be fantastic.
• 1:16
  > Suesh Chari>Absolutely. Graham, thank you so much for having me on this podcast. It's great to connect with you, a like minded individual and I would love to go on a photography expedition together with you. That'be absolutely. and you know, imagine recording part two of this session in the wild instead.
• 1:33
  > Graham>That would be pretty amazing.
• 1:36
  > Suesh Chari>Y so yeah, 100%. a little background about myself. I've been a wildlife presenter, filmmaker and conservationist, based out of central India and I've worked in, in wildlife for the good part of the last seven years and been into wildlife since I was four years old. So you know, almost two and a half decades of my life, I've been closely collected with wildlife because I'm born and brought up in Central India, very close to the tiger reserves.
• 2:03
  > Graham>Fantastic.
• 2:04
  > Suesh Chari>Yeah, yeah. And, and I own a safari company by the name of Amelia Safaris and we specialize in high end privately guide experiences and photographic experiences across India and nine countries in Africa. and we have a conservation wing attached to it where we build waterols for wildlife, we equip anti approaching efforts, fund education programs and also our newest program which is rescing and rehabilitating animals that are in human conflict situations.
• 2:38
  > Suesh Chari>And for 2025 our target is 5 areon animals and we're close to about 100 animals or have just about crossed 100 animals todayeah.
• 2:46
  > Graham>Well that's brilliant. I we're only really just getting started or it feels like this year.
• 2:52
  > Graham>Sure, 100%, that's brilliant.
• 2:55
  > Graham>One of the questions I had was what inspired you? And you said you've been interested a very long time. What actually inspired you to not only get more involved with animals but also, what inspired you to go down the path you've taken with your career, I suppose, but your life, it'it's not so much career thing, I think, doing what we do, it's passion.
• 3:16
  > Suesh Chari>Yeah, absolutely. you know, Graham, it started when I was quite young.
• 3:22
  > Suesh Chari>It started when I was, growing up in Central India, and my grandfather played a pivotal role, and so did my mother. And two different ways they did that. number one, my grandfather used to watch a lot of shows on National Geographic, Animal Planet, Discovery, and he introduced them to me. So at a very young age, I was watching hyenas devouring a live animal instead of watching Tom catching Jerry.
• 3:48
  > Suesh Chari>And, you know, my, my early childhood memories of TV are all about tigers, lions, and, shows like that.
• 3:58
  > Suesh Chari>And he used to take me on his shoulders to the local zoo in, East India, in a city called Kolkata, and it used to be the biggest zoo in India.
• 4:10
  > Suesh Chari>and at that point he should tell me that, okay, you know, do see, do you like these animals? And I said, I love them. And that was one fine day that he responded saying that, you know, this, tigers that you're seeing. And at this point, I'm looking at the tresss. I'm a very young guy, and the tress snarled at me. So of course I jumped up in excitement and got excited. but when my grandfather told me that, you know, son, these are not the same animals you see in the wild or on TV shows, they're stuck in a 4x4k for the rest of their lives. I something that broke my heart at a very early age and set me on a path to finding more about wildlife, learning more about wildlife, and connecting with them in their habitat. And my mother also played a very pivotal role, but not for wildlife, but more for nature in general.
• 4:57
  > Suesh Chari>She loves gardening. She, is in love with her plants, and the trees that, are in the house or surrounding the house. Ah, so much so that she is one of the tree huggers. You know, she talks to them, she hugs them, and she takes care of them, from the heart. and it's quite sad to see that, you know, all the flowers go away during peak winters or peak summers.
• 5:21
  > Suesh Chari>and the entire, tree or entire, plant looks completely dead. So its's sad to see her put in so much effort and then theyre dead. But then shes eagerly waiting for the flowers to come back on because that's her source of happiness. So think, somewhere along the lines, I got that from her. The Love for nature, the love for trees and the love for animals was because of my grandfather's story. And then living in that ecosystem in central India, where tiger reserves are just three hours drive, four hours drive, I started going on safaris. I started asking my father to take me m on safaris. And he would either take himself or send someone with me or if his colleagues were going out, would go with them. Sort of a young early age I had that access to wildlife and nature.
• 6:10
  > Suesh Chari>and that really, really set me on a path to doing what I do. I used to watch David Attenborough, Steve Irit, Steve Baxshel and I wanted to emulate those guys. of course, fast forward 20 years, know that's what I was able to do.
• 6:24
  > Graham>That's fantastic. Yeah, that's an amazing place.
• 6:27
  > Graham>So we were talking earlier about Kness. So were you close to Kana where you. Were you in Madhra Pradesh?
• 6:34
  > Suesh Chari>Yes, exactly. I'm born in Madhra Pradesh and both Khan and Bandavar are about four hours from where I'm born.
• 6:40
  > Graham>Yanteah gets the opportunity to go grab it because, it's just amazing. And certainly seen tigers in the wild for the first time.
• 6:55
  > Graham>Particularly we were in a very small. It'kind of like a Suzuki, but I think it's an Indian rebrand of it.
• 7:00
  > Graham>But there's no protection on the sides. I mean you just open.
• 7:03
  > Graham>So when a tiger walks past and you're just there, that's gets your attention.
• 7:10
  > Suesh Chari>Cor, right. But they, they would never do anything. you know, when tigers or big cats see vehicles, they see them as independent beings. You see, you and I have the concept of machinery. wild animals do not have the concept of machinery. They see a big thing and then they see inside that they're moving heads, multiple moving heads. Probably there are five humans or one human sitting on it. And they just realize, look, this is not what I want to mess with. It'much bigger than me, its much louder than me. You know, there are videos of course that a tiger or a lion would charge up to the vehicle. But thats just to show that. Okay. Dont come close or do anything to me.
• 7:50
  > Graham>Yeah, yeah. And, and I don't know if you've experienced this, but where I was staying, so I stayed in a little hotel. It was about 500 meters from Muoki Gate. And the guys there, the guys who were in the restaurant at the hotel, they were telling us how they'd be on their bicycles going home sometimes there'd Be a tiger standing this. They just wait.
• 8:14
  > Suesh Chari>There you go. I mean, tigers extremely tolerant, you know, I mean, it's sad that only in the media do you see about all the tiger attacks, but do you hear about any of the times it did not attack? Hardly. And 99.9% of the time it does not. it's at 0.01. And that's also because it was either disturbed by people walking or it was chased off its meal or, you know, it came into a human conflict situation.
• 8:41
  > Graham>Yeah. In fact, this wasn't what I was planning to talk about, but just to relay, I guess something that I thought was amazing was the people who work in that reserve, so the people in the hotels, the guides, drives all that. They sort of regard the tigers there as their tigers and so, they look out for them.
• 9:01
  > Graham>So I think poaching. I don't know what the level of poaching is there. It's pretty low, I believe. And also tiger numbers are recovering in ka. I think a big part of it is that people see the tigers as contributing to that community in a way. Know that people and tigers living together.
• 9:21
  > Graham>And that's a major, I think, a major turnaround, I think a major factor in why Carary is doing well in terms of conservation and bringing the tiger numbers back.
• 9:33
  > Graham>Correct?
• 9:34
  > Suesh Chari>Absolutely.
• 9:35
  > Graham>Yeah. And one of the horrendous things this is going back a. A few years ago now, I was looking at running a trip from Sydney, but I think it's something.
• 9:44
  > Graham>It's E of 4 or 6,000 tigers Estimated being in the wild. And to put that into context, you could get a regular football stadium and put all the tigers in there and it only be half full, you know.
• 9:56
  > Graham>You know, it's. I think when you.
• 9:57
  > Suesh Chari>That's crazy to think about that.
• 9:59
  > Graham>Is there horrifying, you know.
• 10:03
  > Graham>anyway, so I want to talk more about, the farst that you run because again, something I'm really big on and if anybody's listened to me talk about going on a trip, make sure it's an eco safari or volunteering.
• 10:17
  > Graham>And the reason I say that is that there are some very bad practices go on in some areas. So I've seen, we were just talking about this SC some Dr. You'll find an animal, maybe a lion, just trying to get a kip in the middle of the day and there might be a dozen vehicles around and then someone will decide to drive at it to try and provoke a reaction. And that's pretty appalling.
• 10:40
  > Graham>So I'm very Against that.
• 10:42
  > Graham>So you're very much on the eco toism, very conservation. So tell us a little bit about that and how you're operating and maybe how people can get involved.
• 10:54
  > Suesh Chari>Absolutely. So we provide safari experiences across India and Africa.
• 10:59
  > Suesh Chari>India is our home country. We have our own team here. We have private guides. Every single trip of ours is, is led by a private guide. Who's going to be your host, who's going to be your naturalist, who's going to be your interpreterive experiences and also curative experiences. you know we go on safaris every day, morning or evening.
• 11:20
  > Suesh Chari>Sometimes full day safaris depend depending on what kind of a person we have as a guest. So for example, someone like yourself would like to spend all 12 hours in the, in the jungle, ah, waiting for the action to unfold and photograph it. And were happy to do that. but some others would like to go three hours in the morning, three hours in the evening. So we really tailor it to the guests needs. And what is important is that know unfortunately in India none of the reserves are private, which means theyre open to the public.
• 11:52
  > Suesh Chari>but not fully open to the public. Theyre controlled by the government. So at times there can be crowded situations. We try our best that if theres a road and a fork in the road and everyone goes right, we try going left.
• 12:06
  > Suesh Chari>and in terms of situations where theres crowd and there's tigers, you also have to remember that tigers are very solitary animals.
• 12:14
  > Suesh Chari>So you know no off roadading is permitted in India. And if a tiger feels disturbed, its just going to go deeper into the jungle because again the entire jungle is not navigable by road systems. So we try maintaining a distance with the tigers, with any animals and letting their animals approach us. because thats when you get the best photographs. You know if a tiger approaches you, its going to come very close and its going to be curious of the vehicle. versus if you drive towards the tiger, it going to run away.
• 12:43
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 12:43
  > Suesh Chari>So those are the things we do. But beyond safari, you know, safari is just one mode of observing wildlife. beyond safari you also do walking safaris where you track different animals on foot or get closer to the ground and observe something that you miss during a safari. the insects, the birds, the amazing flora facts about the trees. you know theres a funnel sp in India which is very cool, which actually makes funnel kind of webs. theres so much and then observing a track, you know theres a pug mark, which is basically a poor impression of a tiger or any animal, maybe its a monkey or a deer, then studying that, studying the droppings of animals, and then if you go beyond safari, just beyond walking and driving, then you also have community interactions which play a very, very vital role in every single safari experience for us. Because people come from all over India and the world and they think that, okay, you know, places like Kanha or Bandavkar national park are kind of Shangri Las. they'not. They're completely away from human habitation. That's not true.
• 13:54
  > Suesh Chari>Increasingly, in especially modern India, every single national park is, either surrounded by human habitation or theres human habitation inside the national park that has existed for millennia, you know, generations and generations. You cant just remove them, easily or its. Again, you know, you cant remove them or think of just removing them because its also their livelihood, their lives.
• 14:20
  > Suesh Chari>So what we do is we always take guests to meet these local communities. How they live, what challenges do they face, and then weigh the conservation, how they'protecting their ecosystems, what you can do. I think having this holistic experience, where you have the animal side of the story, but also the human side of the story really educates people, really makes people understand, empathize with the situation around, but also, empowers them and inspires them to play a positive role in conservation efforts.
• 14:53
  > Graham>Absolutely. I think that's really important. It's, I think it's the way forward because the reality is people and animals are living together. That's not going to change and that something major happens.
• 15:06
  > Graham>so you have to move forward by learning to live together. And another group that we were just chatting about earlier is ERA in Namibia. And one of the things they do is they actually teach local people how to live with elephants. And because I hadn't actually understood this until I went there in 2019, a lot of the people regard the elephants almost with a superstitious fear because elephants can travel a long distance overnight and they can suddenly pop up.
• 15:37
  > Graham>And if you start an elephant, you know, because they've got very bad eyesight, they're going to defend themselves.
• 15:42
  > Graham>So that education, I think is really important. If you live in a situation where there is wildlife about and you want to preserve that. So that, that's. And like I said, that was one of the things I really loved about ka, that people love the tigers. You know, they can see how they work together and they're their tigers.
• 16:04
  > Suesh Chari>yeah.
• 16:06
  > Graham>I love the idea of cracking on foot as well, because I'VE done a little bit of that in Zimbabwe. Elephants and, rhino Awome.
• 16:14
  > Graham>Yeah. One of the amazing things, if you've never been tracking on four, even if you've been to, you knowwhere like ind, India, Africa, is actually understanding spore is the term they use in Africa.
• 16:26
  > Suesh Chari>Ah.
• 16:28
  > Graham>Which is footprints, dung damage to vegetation, whatever, anything that an animal leaves behind to show that it's there. And if you understand the language, you there have the story in front of you of what's going on. Few hours, maybe longer. But that is one of the great things. If you've got a guide with you who can explain what's going on, suddenly it's not just a track with maybe this old footprint in it, but the whole place comes live, you know, what's been going on over the last few hours. And that, that's also something that gives me a buzz. And I don't know if you find that with people when you take them out, if they, you know, it's like the penny drops suddenly.
• 17:12
  > Suesh Chari>Absolutely, absolutely. I think, you know, I always think of tracking, whenever I'm tracking, whether it'on foot or from a vehicle, I think of myself, as, an investigator, someone trying to solve a mystery. like a Sherlock Holmes almost.
• 17:28
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 17:28
  > Suesh Chari>Because vision, you have to be. Yeah. You have to be a suit. You have to, really be able to see the difference between centimeters, between milliseconds, between, you know, missing a sign and, and observing a sign correctly. There's, there's a huge difference. And, and that's what I love doing. It really, really excites me. Almost excites me more than seeing the animal itself.
• 17:56
  > Graham>Yeah, well, it's a challenge, isn't it? It is.
• 17:59
  > Graham>Reading that and working out what's been going on.
• 18:02
  > Graham>A really odd thing I noticed when I was doing this in Africa. It's, you know, kind of absurd, ridiculous. But as you're finding dung, obviously as you get nearer the animal, it actually gets warmer and wetter. But what I also noticed was that the dung beetles on the dung were different species or the different shapes anyway, and it was really quite bizarre. It's like a different party with different people going along.
• 18:23
  > Suesh Chari>Correct, correct.
• 18:25
  > Graham>So for people who are interested in, maybe getting involved where the.
• 18:30
  > Graham>So you mentioned India has been your, I guess, the homert of venue for you. But where do you go in Africa?
• 18:37
  > Suesh Chari>Yeah, we operate in nine countries in Africa.
• 18:40
  > Graham>Ah.
• 18:40
  > Suesh Chari>So starting with Eastern Africa, you have Rwanda, Uganda, Kenya, Tanzania as main base in East Africa. And then Southern Africa. We work with all southern African countries, starting from South Africa, Namibia, Zimbabwe, Zambia and Botswana.
• 18:57
  > Graham>Wow. Yeah.
• 18:59
  > Suesh Chari>Ah, we, we love Africa. I mean, I think Africa is what, Especially some parts of Africa like Botswana, Zimbabwe and Zambiaeah. They remind us of what our planet used to be.
• 19:13
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 19:13
  > Suesh Chari>Maybe a thousand years ago or even before. And it's been preserved since then. I mean, you know, when you go to like, I know you've said you've got in Namibia and Zimbabwe, you know that you'd be standing somewhere in Zimbabwe and knowing that, you know what, a couple thousand years ago, this land was exactly the same.
• 19:34
  > Graham>Yeah, yeah. And Botsana as well. And I stayed in the town of Victoria Falls. And the odd thing about Victoria Falls, the town is it's actually on the migration path that animals have been using for millennia.
• 19:51
  > Graham>So at certain times of year you'll see elephants wandering up the high street. there's a standard warning about when you go to the supermarket in downtown. We called it Vic Vegas because it was the tourist. It's all very smart. But yeah, you had to make sure that your shopping was in a backpack or something and all closed up because otherwise the baboons would dive in and grab whatever.
• 20:12
  > Suesh Chari>You just.
• 20:14
  > Graham>So, yeah, you know, it's just a totally different place to be where you walk along the street, baboons walking the other way. It's so bizarre.
• 20:21
  > Suesh Chari>I mean, a baboon stole my wife's coffee.
• 20:24
  > Suesh Chari>when we were Victoria Falls and you know, we was just like, we'd been tired, been doing Safice for 15 days. Of course in the morning you, I have a coffee and we picked up a coffee from near the ticket counter. Didn't realize how, you know, the baboons were around, but nobody warned that they're really going toa like take it from you.
• 20:44
  > Suesh Chari>She's having coffee and the baboon just comes nonchalant, no aggression, nothing. She's holding the coffee, just grabs, goes.
• 20:53
  > Graham>What my thought when I first saw it was this is like Planet Ye, but we're all living together. It was so odd, but it's just normal there. So. Yeah, for different experiences that'yeah abso. Definitely great places to go.
• 21:09
  > Graham>So what would be high points for you? It's probably an unfair question, but high points in terms of, I don't know, either working with animals, experiencing animals, or what you've been able to provide for people who maybe have never seen animals in the wild before. What are the kind of experiences that you just look back On I think. Yeah, that was, that was a really good day.
• 21:34
  > Suesh Chari>Yeah. Graham, you know, the best thing about being in the wild is every day is new, every day is exciting, Every day can be great. And every day can also be a little frustrating because you want to see something and you're not able to see something.
• 21:47
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 21:48
  > Suesh Chari>Or you're not able to get that shot. But every day is different. And I think what what really leaves me fulfilled makes me happy. and even during, but at a hindsight more so makes me happy is that I've been very, very tremendously gifted to have followed the lives of tigers, from young like as cubs at this small all the way to adulthood. Knowing them from the time that they were only about 50 pounds or 30 pounds even, all the way to when there are 500, 600 poundsah in weight, you know, to, to be able to follow the life of a tiger and then learn about that tiger.
• 22:33
  > Suesh Chari>Who the mother is, who the father is, what the tiger'personality is, who are its siblings.
• 22:38
  > Suesh Chari>What does it prefer eating? What does it prefer, where does it prefer to drink? Water. How does it prefer to drink water? Does it like going into the water or just staying outside, knowing about the little gimmicks that the tiger does or looking about the personality. And then of course I'm able to track different tigers, know about the lifestyles of different tigers, life cycles of different tigers.
• 23:02
  > Suesh Chari>But, so that's a level of fulfillment. But what on sense that level of fulfillment is to then you know, you love that tiger, of course. But then the transcendence comes when you get someone else to fall in love with that tiger.
• 23:17
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 23:18
  > Suesh Chari>You know, if you are on my safari and then I'm telling you, okay, this is a tigress. her name is Solo.
• 23:23
  > Suesh Chari>And I followed her for seven years. This is who she is, et cetera etc. And I see you falling in love with her.
• 23:30
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 23:31
  > Suesh Chari>And then that is like, oh my God. Thats a new level of euphoria for me. I just love it.
• 23:38
  > Graham>Yeah, thats am aming one of the things I loved about visiting KA So again, if you don't know, the patterns on the faces of the animals are unique.
• 23:49
  > Graham>And certainly what they had at KA was a sheet ID sheet. So once an an M I think they have to reach maturity or then they give them a name before that they're given M a number but they don't always survive or that's I think how they do it in can.
• 24:03
  > Graham>So yeah, you can take pictures look at the shit and say I know that is. But if you've got that background, suddenly it's like shooting the person. You know, it's like shooting a friend the most.
• 24:15
  > Graham>Yeah, that's pretty amazing.
• 24:17
  > Suesh Chari>Yeah. So I've seen over 200 different tigers in my life.
• 24:21
  > Graham>Wow.
• 24:21
  > Suesh Chari>And closely follow the lives of about 138.
• 24:25
  > Graham>Wow. Yeah.
• 24:26
  > Suesh Chari>Yeah.
• 24:27
  > Graham>So what advice do you have for anybody who's thinking of doing a trip, or you know, wanting to experience animals wellild? What would be broad advice really? Not just specifically about photography or anything like that, but what do you think they need to keep in mind?
• 24:45
  > Suesh Chari>Yeah, absolutely. number one, I think Graham, people need to realize u that it's a very specialized kind of travel and a specialized travel requires a specialist to be involved. I think a lot of people go online and look for general experiences and then they either end up with someone who is not experienced in it and just selling it to make money or they end up with something that is not eco consscious, that is not eco friendly. that not that is again a mass product.
• 25:21
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 25:21
  > Suesh Chari>or last thing, people try doing everything themselves and then they go online and they search online and they're like a thousand different options and then they just are tired. Okay. They don't know what to do and then they stop and then they just don't go a safari. So I think get a specialist involved. people who have been doing this for a large part of their life look them up and then get them involved. whether it's us or me or my company or anybody else. But get a specialist in_ah second, I think people need to plan way ahead of time because its not like going to some place in Europe where youre re going to have like 50 or 100 different hotel options.
• 26:02
  > Suesh Chari>And each hotel will have like 500 rooms or 300 rooms. You know in a place like central India or Botswana or anywhere you're going to have a few hotels and loes and those few hotels will and lodges will have few rooms. so you know they're not mass, hotels. Ah, maximum theyl ll have like 20, 25 rooms but usually theyll have between 10 and 15 so and they tend to get sold out very fast. So planning in advance is very important and I think people should keep an open mind as to what theyre re going to experience. I think a lot of people just watch documentaries and then hope that their first safari theyre Going to see a line bringing down a buffalo. After that they to see a cheetah, cheetah mother nursing her cubs. And after that they're going toa see a crocodile eating a wildebeest, you know, all in one safari.
• 26:54
  > Suesh Chari>That's not going to happen. You got, you got to give it time, you got to give it patience. Let your guide handle it. And be open. What do you mean? What do I mean? Being open. Not like open to okay patients alone, but be open to falling in love with just of pur. Simple sunrise and sunset, a simple rustling of leaves or just an elephant ambiently eating or just breathing fresh air away from your phone, away from everything. Just focus on the surroundings.
• 27:25
  > Suesh Chari>So I think these are three, major points that I would give to people before planning a experience, which is wildlife related.
• 27:34
  > Graham>Absolutely. And I think your point about managing expectations, because my experience in kna we got really lucky. But I think we saw soon we were going out in the morning, then the afternoon, except for Wednesday when everything's closed in the afternoon. Animals and everything a break.
• 27:51
  > Graham>But I think it was one in three or one in four of those little trips. We actually saw tigers, which I think was actually pretty good going quite close. But that is the reality.
• 28:02
  > Graham>And, and I did a lot of photography of humpback Wales when I was living in Sydney. And again people expected to go out on the boat, humpbacks breaching all over the place.
• 28:11
  > Graham>And again that was about maybe one in three tricks. You might get a breach sometimes you wouldn't see anything. But that's just reality, of wildlife photographyre.
• 28:21
  > Suesh Chari>Correct.
• 28:22
  > Graham>Yeah. And another point actually that I'll mention to people and I mention it when I talk about planning is certainly was the case in K. And I've had this in other reserves where you have to show ID and when people book passes for you, you need to give them ahead of time a copy of the id. So normally that's passport page, but the important thing to remember is that if you're doing this few months ahead, then you change your passport, you turn up with a different document. that's not what they're looking for. They want your original.
• 28:53
  > Graham>I don't know what they do if it's something different, but I'm assuming that makes at least trying to organize.
• 28:58
  > Suesh Chari>Yeah, I think so. You're right. A couple years ago that was the case. But things have changed now. It's more systematic, it's now digitized.
• 29:07
  > Suesh Chari>So everything, you know, if a gramma Elliot, from, say, from France. And they see that passport, it's okay. If it matches your face, that's fine. Face and name, that's fine, no problem. but yeah, again, that's why working with an expert is important because, you know, as I said, I work in 10 countries for 250 destinations and every single destination there's a caveat attached to it. Ye, you have to do this or you have to do that. And that's why we are going to be able to tell you what to do, what not to do. And, you know, all people need to do then is just enjoy experience and nothing else.
• 29:42
  > Graham>Absolutely.
• 29:44
  > Graham>And I was also thinking about what you were saying about, you know, where people are going. So remember being in kna, we were allocated different zones within the park on each trip we would always try and get there first. so we could just get in the park and go, and not get behind that really big bus. There's some of those really big bus using that have, I guess, local people. But yeah, yeah, I mean it's cheaper.
• 30:07
  > Suesh Chari>Way to do stuff. But, they only allow two buses in the entire reserve.
• 30:11
  > Graham>Yeah. So, and the thing about the guides, because obviously the guides talking to one another about where the tigers have been seen, so they've got an idea if it's in the area you've been allocated. But again, thinking about experts, one of the things our drive would do and our guide with you is just stop every now and again and listen. Because certainly with tigers, one of the things you're listening for is not the tiger, but the alarm call from things that are worried they're going to get eaten by a tiger. So if you hear an alarm call, then you know, you know, you've got kind of the support team is unknownly working for you 100%.
• 30:54
  > Suesh Chari>Graham, you're a wildlife expert now?
• 30:56
  > Graham>I wouldn't say that, but I'd just like to. These are subtle things about it and I think this is part of the joy of doing this. You suddenly learn a lot more.
• 31:05
  > Suesh Chari>and you know, once you hear the alarm call, that's when the patient begins, whether the tiger is going to come out in 10 minutes or two hours. You have to be patient. And at that time, what do you do? You just sit quietly or you just enjoy the birds, the sounds, and just the sounds of the wild. And it feels great.
• 31:24
  > Graham>Yeah, yeah. Actually, when I was there, a tiger did make a kill while we were waiting, but we didn't actually see it because it was in the bush. But it did come out. We saw the other, I think it was Chitto, it was after. And we saw them running, others running away. And then this, he came out into a clearing with this young one he managed to catch.
• 31:45
  > Graham>So. Wow, that was amazing. Andme, like I said, we were really lucky. Yeah, I had a lucky trip.
• 31:53
  > Graham>So, is there anything else that well, that you'd like to share, really, I mean about your life or your experiences that you'd like to share with anybody listening who might have been going, might have been on safari before or maybe is thinking about it for the first time?
• 32:10
  > Suesh Chari>Yeah, absolutely. I think, what I'll share is one of my favorite experiences, in life, with tiger. Since we're talking so much about them and that is.
• 32:21
  > Suesh Chari>And I actually took the name of that tigresss and that tigers name is Solo. So you know, I knew Solo since she was just about three and a half four, four and a half months old. And this is, I saw her for the first time back in 20, 12.
• 32:38
  > Suesh Chari>And she was one of the first cubs I saw. her mother was Rajab Bear off female. And I knew her also. And Solo had three other siblings, Two females and one male.
• 32:49
  > Suesh Chari>And we named her Solo because as the cubs were growing up, we found Solo always alone, away from the family. And even at a very young age she was chasing different animals even at 6, 7 months of age.
• 33:07
  > Suesh Chari>And all the cubs would stay together but Solo go would go off on her own. And so we named her the Solo female. among the litter of four, ye know, she'very independent. And then there came a time that she pushed her mother out of her territory. She took over her mother's territory. She, mated with a male. It was successful, gave cubs. But unfortunately another male found the cubs and killed the cubs.
• 33:32
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 33:33
  > Suesh Chari>So male tigers who do not follow the cubs will kill the cubs so that the female comes back into easrus and then mates with the male. Its the survival of the fittest. You know, every male wants his gene to be passed y. And then the second, second, litter of cubs were five cubs. And Solo decided that, look, I have to protect them at all costs.
• 33:54
  > Suesh Chari>unfortunately one of them was born weak and died two weeks later. But the rest four, grew up fine. But in her area other tigers started coming in because, you know, India'tiger population is increasing and, but the area is not enough. So some tiger reserves are overcrowded. We have 55 tiger reserves in the country. top 15 tiger reserves are overcrowded. But the remaining, tiger reserves remaining, tiger reserves do not have enough tigers. So we need to move tigers from surplus areas to deficit areas. But of course the government is working towards it'not easy. Its very challenging. These typ reserves are very far away from each other, remote. Theres a lot of political problems also involved.
• 34:41
  > Suesh Chari>But coming to the story again, so a lot of different tiger side coming, to her territory, pushing into a territory because space is limited.
• 34:49
  > Suesh Chari>And Solo had fights with a few different tigers. At one point, one of the males ripped Solo's chest open completely.
• 34:58
  > Suesh Chari>but throughout this, this, she was still able to fend for her cups.
• 35:04
  > Suesh Chari>And while Solo was a little weak now, her cubs were very strong, very bold and big.
• 35:10
  > Suesh Chari>And in Covid, you know, Solo went missing, around 2020, solar went missing and the cubs were missing. When the parks reopened after the monsoon season, we tried tracking her and we found her outside of the national park near near a human habitation, but still in the forest. She, was drinking from the same waterole people were washing their clothes in or going into bathing and she was killing cattle. and then October 17, 2020, and the cub were about just under two years old. we found very sad news that Solo was poisoned.
• 35:49
  > Suesh Chari>She had killed a cattle. Cattle. And then of course, you know, revenge killing is what we call them. And the cattle owner poisoned the carcass and then Solo in the cubs ate the carcass and died. Which was probably the most terrible experience Ive had in my life. a terrible time. Ive had my life and most terrible news I could have heard that time. and I was inconsolable. I've str tracked this female for so long.
• 36:18
  > Suesh Chari>I know I set out and you know, I'm talking about conservation, about tigers and at the same time, just from my in front of me, we lost a female with four cubs.
• 36:29
  > Suesh Chari>M& that's when we had to reconcile that we have to play a bigger active role in conservation efforts.
• 36:37
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 36:38
  > Suesh Chari>So we started doing education programs andi poaching patrols, building waterholes, wildlife so that, you know, wildlife in the areas with human population don't have to drink from the same waterhole as humans.
• 36:51
  > Graham>Yeah.
• 36:51
  > Suesh Chari>U m, and, and really moved towards more active participation conservation. And I think that diaress taught me a lot and I, you know, I miss her till this day. I wish I could know, pick up the computer and show you, but the picture is right in front of me here. Beautiful diaress Solo.
• 37:10
  > Graham>Yeah, well, yeah, that's.
• 37:16
  > Graham>I can't of begin to understand what it would have meant you to go through that. And it also kind of underlines what we were talking about really at the beginning about people and living with wildlife in a way that they get on and that's so important.
• 37:34
  > Graham>And yeah, it makes such a big difference when that education takes place. So hopefully Solo s life goes towards contributing to that so that, you know, that sort of thing doesn't happen in, in the future or at least absolutely minimized.
• 37:55
  > Graham>I actually got the chance to speak to a couple of poachers when I was in Uganda and it was very interesting hearing their stories and why they'd resorted to that because I think your situation is slightly different. I know when people have their wild livestock built and that's a fairly standard approach but there needs to be other ways to handling it.
• 38:16
  > Graham>I did have one question about the relocation.
• 38:19
  > Graham>so I don't. I did get to talk to some Zimbabwe, Victoria Falls about relocating elephants because he'd been involved in that for quite a while and they had the same problem. You get an overpopulation of elephants and elephants can be very destructive. Put them in a place where there aren't any. But what they found was that the way the elephants society if you like is made up with a matriarch and then all the females and the subarult males. But the matriarchs role is to know where they can find water, where they can get what they need toat regardless of what's going on. And when they relocated a group, suddenly the knowledge that the matriarch had was completelyre relevant because they didn't know that area and they'd actually witnessed on at least one occasion the matriarch went mad because she's trying to look after the group but she can't look after them. She, she just doesn't know where she is.
• 39:19
  > Graham>And I, I don't know quite if tigers operateating exactly the same way if they rely on that knowledge of where they've grown up. So it is ah, a very detailed knowledge of the area or how quickly can they adapt. Do you have any feel for that?
• 39:35
  > Suesh Chari>Yeah, I think what point you brought up, Graham, is very, very vital. You see in terms of relocation its actually humans playing God_eah and unfortunately, even though I desist the idea that humans are playing God, we have to do it with elephants. They are incredibly social animals and they really rely on their bonding and knowledge passed on from generations with Elephants, of course, it would be much more difficult when you remove a herd from its ecosystem and go to another ecosystem because they rely on so many different food sources, water sources, they require, an astounding 250kg of food every single day. And it'challenging Theyre very emotional animals.
• 40:28
  > Suesh Chari>But with tigers, because they're not communal animals, they far a little easier because then when the tiger is relocated to an area again, it will be completely disoriented because it does not know the area, does not know where the food will be, water will be. So it will still have a shock, but it'll still far a little better than a, than an elephant because it's a smaller individual, it's a, it's a predator. And it does not require 250kg of food every day.
• 41:02
  > Suesh Chari>It requires about, you know, one animal per week. And if there's enough food, if there's enough water and there's enough space, the tiger will survive. Ye, because tigers are highly adaptable. That being said, Graham, I think people forget that animals are also individuals like you and I, you know, now someone like me, I'm very flexible, with my environment. You take me and put me in any country, I'll make friends, I'll enjoy, I'ENJOY the food.
• 41:33
  > Suesh Chari>But maybe if you take one of my friends who is completely a home person, doesn't like interacting with people and you put them in, let's say, Paris, and he doesn't know any French and he doesn't like French food, then you know, he's gonna, he's going to go into that space where he's going to get depressed. yeah. And that depression could lead to a lot of anxiety and eventual, it could lead to very decline in health as well. Similar with elephants and tigers and every single animal, there are individuals that can cope better, there are individuals that won't cope better. Is there a way for us to know that? Unfortunately not.
• 42:13
  > Suesh Chari>And that is the problem in humans. Playingayying God.
• 42:16
  > Suesh Chari>And it's again something like a necessary evil at this point of time.
• 42:20
  > Graham>Yeahah.
• 42:21
  > Suesh Chari>It's that catch 2020. Right. Like should we do it? That pros their cons.
• 42:27
  > Graham>Yeah. Because if you keep them in the area, it will be overcrowded. If you said. And then males will kill cubs so that they. You have all of that going on. Yeah.
• 42:36
  > Graham>Now that's, yeah, it's a tricky one because on the face of it, it looks like a very simple thing to do, but in fact there's a lot more to it. And I think it's important people understand that the obvious solution isn't always quite as good a solution as you might think, but it might be the only workable one that's available.
• 42:56
  > Suesh Chari>Yeah, 100%.
• 42:58
  > Graham>Okay. See y. Actually, I really enjoyed that conversation there. Is there anything else you'd like to say before we just wind things up?
• 43:06
  > Suesh Chari>No. Thank you so much for hosting Graham. I would love to host you on a safari and any of your listeners on a safari as well. and you know, if anyone listening, they can follow me on Instagram. I'd love to connect with them and stay in touch.
• 43:22
  > Graham>Yeah, I'll get the links and I'll put them in the description so that people can go directly to your Instagram and I'll put your bio on there as well. And the website for the tours so that yeah, people can jump on and yeah, hopefully have an amazing experience with you.
• 43:37
  > Suesh Chari>Absoute, absolutely. Thank you so much for your hosting me, Graham. Take care.
• 43:41
  > Graham>My pleasure. Thank you for your time and yeah, hopefully we can catch up in person. Forward.
• 43:47
  > Graham>Bye now.
• 43:50
  > Graham>Oh, and a couple more things just before I go.
• 43:53
  > Graham>The first one is to please give me a like or a subscribe, if you're. Particularly if you're listening to me on YouTube. And the other thing is just to remind you that I do have a live online workshop running on Sunday 30th March, so there is information on the website about that, but please take a look and I'll be taking you through how to make an immediate improvement to your photography. So if you're struggling a little bit and you just want to see immediate changes, sign up and I'll give you six things that you can apply straight away. Thanks again for listening and I'll speak to you next time.