Latest / Kids Media Club Podcast / Rerun: Webtoon's Sydney Bright on Turning Webcomics Into Animation — and Why Fandom-Proven IP Is the New Development Superpower

Transcript

Rerun: Webtoon's Sydney Bright on Turning Webcomics Into Animation — and Why Fandom-Proven IP Is the New Development Superpower · Kids Media Club Podcast

• 0:00
  Foreign.
• 0:05
  Hi there.
• 0:06
  Sandy Williams here from the Kids Media Club podcast.
• 0:10
  Now, this week, it's going to be a rerun of a old episode and it's a conversation that we had with Sydney Bright from Webtoon.
• 0:20
  And we talk about how Webtoon is the world's leading digital comics platform with over 145 million monthly active users, and how that platform serves as a fantastic ecosystem and development model for series and shows as well.
• 0:39
  Take a listen, hope you enjoy, and we'll be back with a new episode next week.
• 0:49
  Hello and welcome to another episode of the Kids Media Club Podcast.
• 0:53
  I am Andy Williams.
• 0:55
  I'm Jo Redfern.
• 0:56
  And Emily, who have we got with us today?
• 0:58
  Yeah, I'm so excited to have Sydney Bright, head of Global.
• 1:02
  Head of Global Animation at Webtoon with us because I saw her speak at Kids Screen and she got mobbed afterwards.
• 1:08
  She got mobbed.
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  She had a lot of.
• 1:09
  That was a great session.
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  Lots of really interesting points to say.
• 1:12
  And in the middle of the mob, I managed to just drop my card to her and say, sydney, I have a podcast.
• 1:18
  Come talk to us.
• 1:19
  I don't need to talk to you now.
• 1:20
  There's far too many people swarming you.
• 1:21
  Let's connect later.
• 1:22
  And so this is the genesis of that conversation.
• 1:24
  So good to have you, Sydney.
• 1:26
  Yes.
• 1:27
  I'm so excited to be here.
• 1:28
  It was a great presentation.
• 1:30
  It's always nice when people are responding to what you're saying because sometimes you're up there and you're like, is this making sense?
• 1:37
  Is this connecting?
• 1:38
  Are people enjoying this?
• 1:40
  Yeah.
• 1:41
  Oh, my gosh, no.
• 1:42
  I thought it was a really good session, loaded with loads of details.
• 1:45
  And that's why I was like, you need to come on the podcast and tell us a little bit about what you're up to.
• 1:49
  Because I've been following the Webtoon platform for a number of years now.
• 1:53
  It's a really interesting platform, but I'd love you to just explain to our listeners what it is at a basic level and then what you do for Webtoon.
• 2:00
  Yeah, of course.
• 2:01
  So.
• 2:04
  Lots of W's at this company.
• 2:07
  Webtoon is essentially the world's leading digital comic publishing platform.
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  So they really pioneered the vertical scroll.
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  The company was founded in Korea and to date has about 145 million monthly active users.
• 2:21
  And for context, those monthly active users spend about 30 plus minutes a day actively reading on the platform.
• 2:30
  So the comics that are on the platform, they're Vertical scroll, which is really unique to that platform.
• 2:37
  There's certainly A number of competitive similar platforms at this point that have a very similar structure.
• 2:44
  But we are the capital W Webtoon in the sense of like crayon or Kleenex that really was kind of pioneered by this wonderful company.
• 2:55
  And essentially it's really kind of a democratization of storytelling.
• 2:59
  So essentially any, anyone anywhere in the world can create a digital comic and upload it to the platform.
• 3:07
  So very similar to YouTube in the sense that that is an open forum for user generated content.
• 3:13
  That is what webtoon is for, for comics.
• 3:18
  And we have all sorts of genres existing on the platform, everything from horror to fantasy to sci fi to thriller, slice of life and comedy and everything else.
• 3:29
  So it's, it's really a beautiful kind of melting pot for storytellers all over the world to be able to kind of start, start to kickstart their own stories and, and their own audience base on an existing platform with
• 3:42
  a, a really huge user base, which is really exciting.
• 3:47
  And who can publish on there?
• 3:48
  Just tell us, how does a creator get started?
• 3:52
  Yeah, so really anyone can publish to the platform, which is what's really fantastic.
• 3:58
  So it is truly UGC creators all over the world and it's I think probably most user friendly to people who are artist driven first or at least have a team of folks.
• 4:10
  So we see a lot of our creators, if they are kind of a one stop shop in terms of being able to write and illustrate on their own, they can go off and create their, their own webcomic.
• 4:21
  And then sometimes we see teams of people and we also see an evolution of teams of people.
• 4:26
  So a wonderful creator named Rachel Smythe who created Lore Olympus for many years.
• 4:32
  Rachel was just kind of the engine behind that property.
• 4:36
  And then as the comic grew and you know, continued to have season after season after season, she brought on other support staff to kind of help her in terms of artists and things to kind of execute in her
• 4:50
  style alongside her.
• 4:51
  So really anyone can publish.
• 4:53
  It is an open publishing ecosystem.
• 4:57
  I think the limitations really are are you following the community guidelines and you know, so long as you're being appropriate and doing those things, anyone can publish, which is really exciting.
• 5:08
  I think what really, what kind of captured my interest so early in joining this company was because of that, because it is an opportunity for publishing for really anyone.
• 5:21
  You end up seeing such a amazing array of representation and diversity across storytelling.
• 5:30
  Whereas I think traditional media has been very difficult for, you know, some demographics or even some regions of the world to be able to kind of reach traditional media.
• 5:40
  And I think that's been really incredible.
• 5:43
  Like there's an amazing comic called Ordeal and that creator is, is Trinidadian.
• 5:51
  And you know, we have creators in New Zealand and creators in the UK and Spain and Canada and really just the far reachings of the world.
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  So it's, it's really amazing to see just these storytellers come from everywhere and be able to publish on the platform.
• 6:10
  And what's the process to onboard for those storytellers?
• 6:15
  How easy is it for them to kind of get started?
• 6:18
  Yeah, so there's really two different sides of the Webtoon platform.
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  So there's the canvas side which is truly open ugc.
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  So there's no curation so long as you're following community guidelines and rules and you can upload that tomorrow and there's.
• 6:33
  No,.
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  There's no restrictions.
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  So in the sense of if, if you'd like your property to be not just on webtoon but also on other platforms or on your own platform, you can, if you're on the canvas side, you can publish anywhere.
• 6:50
  So that audience engagement is obviously what people are hoping to capture when they're coming to that side of the platform.
• 6:57
  But it is, it's really dependent on the creator to kind of help bolster that proper.
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  As opposed to the Webtoon original side.
• 7:06
  The original side kind of has a couple different funnels.
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  The most common way for a title to become a Webtoon original truly is to start as a canvas property and for the audience and metrics to grow or for it to be a really unique, interesting story where the
• 7:25
  Webtoon original site says, hey creator, we love this property so much, we'd like to migrate it to a webtoon original.
• 7:33
  And with that migration, the creator gets kind of investment from the editorial side of the company and there is kind of financial support for those independent creators, an editor who can kind of help keep them on track and
• 7:48
  help with those kind of weekly deliverable cycles.
• 7:52
  So there's a little bit more support infrastructure, but in exchange there's a, a kind of an investment and a partial stake in the property that Webtoon takes.
• 8:03
  I would say the other part is once you are kind of a Webtoon original creator.
• 8:08
  So someone like Miriam who created Hooky, she has also created another property called Marionetta.
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  And because she is already in the Webtoon originals community, her second title did.
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  It didn't go through the canvas to Webtoon originals process.
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  It got to just start as a webtoon original and occasionally there's contests.
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  So recently there was A contest for creators to kind of submit a couple episodes.
• 8:37
  And of those episodes that were submitted, the editorial team selected a winner to become a webtoon original.
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  So I think the most recent winner for that was a project called Scale Hunters.
• 8:49
  So there's a few different opportunities, but there's a lot of resources available online to kind of talk creators through best practices in terms of setting up their individual webcomics pipelines.
• 9:03
  Brent, who's the creator of Ordeal that I mentioned earlier, he has amazing kind of behind the scenes tutorials of some of his workflows.
• 9:12
  So there's a lot of resources available for creators to be able to kind of wrap their heads around how, how best to kind of work through that creative process to get their titles uploaded.
• 9:24
  Makes sense.
• 9:24
  And then what, like, what is the path to monetization then?
• 9:26
  Is it, is it ad supported?
• 9:28
  Is it kind of.
• 9:28
  Does it kind of like work like YouTube and not in terms of the UGC thing?
• 9:32
  Yeah, so there's ad sharing and on platform purchases as well.
• 9:38
  Think of it as like microtransactions.
• 9:40
  So in order to read titles that may be behind a Fast Pass or kind of advanced readership, essentially.
• 9:50
  So if you're such a die hard fan and an episode drops and you want to read it before everybody else gets to read it publicly, you can exchange coins in order to get that early read and be able
• 10:02
  to drop spoilers for other people if you're that type of person.
• 10:07
  And those transactions are shared monetization metrics essentially with the creators, which is really exciting to see, kind of which creators are not just having a really big fan response, but also the fans who are really invested both in
• 10:25
  time and in money and wanting to continue with those stories.
• 10:28
  I think it really helps us understand from an audience participation perspective where their heads are, which is helpful obviously for what I do, which is kind of the adaptation side of things.
• 10:41
  Yeah, let's get to that.
• 10:42
  Because you're like, that's one of the reasons we brought you on.
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  You're head of Global Animation for Webtoon.
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  So tell us about what your remit is there.
• 10:50
  Yeah, so as head of Global Animation here, my job is really to identify titles from the platform that makes sense for adaptation.
• 11:00
  So on the webtoon production side, we have three separate teams.
• 11:03
  We have a live action television team, a live action film team, and an animation, which is my team.
• 11:09
  And our animation team covers TV and film.
• 11:13
  And I think we kind of have the best job in the world because our days are filled with reading a bunch of comics and trying to figure out, would this make a great TV show or a great animated
• 11:25
  series.
• 11:26
  And then sometimes there's a title where we kind of fight across our three divisions and we have to play rock paper scissors to see who gets it, but we get to work with those creators and work with that
• 11:38
  property and go through the traditional development process, sometimes not so traditional development process, and then hopefully make it out to the other side where we have a public announcement for a green light, much like we did with Lore
• 11:53
  Olympus back in January, which we set up with Amazon Prime.
• 11:58
  And we're in production and absolutely thrilled to be able to bring that to screen for fans and hopefully.
• 12:05
  And when you're, when you're looking for those potentials, Sydney, whether, you know, do you, what kind of data and signals.
• 12:14
  Do you look at?
• 12:15
  Is it total views or reads?
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  Is it people coming back episode after episode?
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  So the retention rate is high.
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  What are the things that you kind of watch for?
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  And when you see it start to bubble up, you're like, okay, there's something there.
• 12:27
  Let's keep a watching brief on that one.
• 12:29
  Yeah, I think it's kind of all of the above.
• 12:32
  You know, if a title's older in, in terms of having been on the platform for a long time, those are more likely to have the extraordinarily high numbers.
• 12:43
  So, you know, I, I think Tower of God has like 6.6 billion global reads.
• 12:50
  Laura Lupus has 1.8 billion global reads.
• 12:54
  So a lot of the properties that have been on since like 2018, 2017, they've had kind of the longevity to be able to have a significant amount of readership and hundreds of episodes on the platform.
• 13:08
  So, of course, legacy titles that have been very important to the platform for a long time, I would say for the most part are all titles that have been spoken for within our group, but in terms of newer
• 13:21
  titles, it's a few different things.
• 13:23
  Joe, to your point.
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  Yes.
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  Is the retention high?
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  Are people coming back week after week?
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  Are we seeing that steady increase in readership and also in comments.
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  I think that's one of the wonderful things about the platform is it is, of course, a content platform first, but it's also embedded with a social media aspect and the fact that fans can comment down to the episode
• 13:48
  and have these kind of dialogues within each episode of oh my gosh, I can't believe that happened and I think this is going to happen next, or I can't believe he kissed her, I can't believe that thing happened.
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  So there's a lot of audience participation in that sense.
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  And I think when we're seeing that really high engagement with comments, that's also a really strong sign for us.
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  And then separately too, because not all creators are created equal and some have a much more significant individual social media following.
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  And maybe their title is getting more exposure because they're off platform promoting it.
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  But there's a lot of titles with, I would say, quieter creators sometimes where the creative itself is also really excellent.
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  And if that title maybe doesn't have the highest metrics, but we really believe in it from a story perspective, that's also something we get to jump into.
• 14:46
  And of course we're having daily conversations with the Netflixes and Disney's and Amazons of the world where they're telling us we're looking for our XYZ or whatever their mandates are.
• 15:00
  So we're always kind of trying to both influence the marketplace in terms of, hey, this is what the fans are really resonating with and this is what the fans are really interested in seeing.
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  And here's all the reasons that you should want to do an adaptation of this.
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  Insert data.
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  And then on the flip side it's also, okay, well this is what you want.
• 15:21
  Well, we have that, so let us develop that and bring it to you.
• 15:26
  And do you think that community aspect is a big difference between traditional development route for programming and this alternative way of looking at it?
• 15:35
  I think so.
• 15:36
  I think especially in an age of the demand for ip, ip, IP and, and everyone, you know, so interested in, in making sure that they're buying something that's, you know, bulletproof, which, you know, nobody knows what, what that
• 15:52
  really is.
• 15:52
  And I, and I think in execution, when you're just using an IP and hoping that that's going to be the vehicle that's going to bring an audience, I think you see a huge disconnect.
• 16:04
  And I don't think fans show up in the way that maybe some buyers think are, are obvious for some of those properties.
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  And I think what's really wonderful about these digital platforms is what rises to the top really is because of the fan investment.
• 16:23
  And I think the fans take a lot of pride in feeling like they were a part of that property becoming successful.
• 16:30
  They were a part of, you know, Rachel Smythe's rise to becoming a New York Times bestseller.
• 16:37
  And I think because of that they have this kind of die hard love for a lot of these properties.
• 16:43
  I, I remember I, I teach at Loyola Marymount University here in Los Angeles to the animation program and one of my first semesters teaching.
• 16:55
  After I started working here at Webtoon, I was telling the kids at the beginning of the semester, like, oh, this is my job is what I do.
• 17:02
  And one of the girls in the audience in my class, she.
• 17:07
  She started crying and she was like, oh my God, are you working on Hooky?
• 17:12
  Hooky is my favorite webtoon.
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  Like, it helped me get through high school.
• 17:16
  Like, so I.
• 17:17
  I hear all these stories of people who just are so emphatically emotionally connected to the properties.
• 17:24
  And I think there's something really special about that versus just some big IP that everybody's heard of because it's been around for 40 years.
• 17:35
  And that fandom is such an important part increasingly of what we're talking about in terms of what gets adapted and what gets picked up.
• 17:43
  But they can also feel very, very personally passionate about things as you have just articulated.
• 17:50
  So when you're thinking about something that moves on into being adapted, what do you think about in terms of having that responsibility to the fans and the audience, what do you think about keeping so it doesn't get lost
• 18:06
  in translation?
• 18:07
  Also, what do you think about gets added when something gets adapted from being a webtoon?
• 18:13
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 18:15
  I think hopefully what fans can keep in mind is that, you know, the pacing is very different for a webcomic versus a series or a feature.
• 18:27
  So, you know, on the feature side, a story has to be contained, right?
• 18:31
  Like, it has to feel like we started somewhere and we ended somewhere.
• 18:35
  And not all webtoons have ended.
• 18:39
  A lot of webtoons are still ongoing.
• 18:42
  So some of that is, you know, how do we encapsulate maybe a storyline or a specific arc for what that feature is?
• 18:52
  And I think too, in the context of creating webtoon properties, the goal is to really churn out an episode.
• 19:00
  Once a week.
• 19:01
  These creators are cranking out stories and sometimes some of those episodes are going to feel maybe a little bit more slice of life.
• 19:08
  Or there's a title called Siren's Lament that there's maybe a hundred plus episodes of like a will they, won't they Kind of storyline.
• 19:21
  And that's really wonderful, I think, for fans to be able to come back to webtoon and like read and get these little snippets kind of throughout that story.
• 19:29
  But when we're talking about adaptations, we really want people, especially in a day of digital streaming and binge watching, it's like we need the fans to be so excited to come back.
• 19:42
  So how are we really crafting cliffhangers at the end of Each of these episodes, that feels really propulsive and figuring out what does the pacing look like.
• 19:54
  If you read an episode of Webtoon, that may be eight scenes, but eight scenes doesn't make up 30 minutes of television.
• 20:03
  So there's a lot of things to factor into that.
• 20:05
  But I think in terms of kind of the care that we take for adaptation, you know, I, I have the great privilege of being close to a lot of the creators that we're adapting their properties for, so I
• 20:18
  take a lot of care in what that looks like.
• 20:20
  And, and there's no greater compliment when those creators feel like we really heard them and saw them and saw the properties and the, the materials we're sharing with them in the development or production process are, are like elating
• 20:36
  them because they feel like, wow, you really captured the essence of what I wanted to do.
• 20:41
  But in this next stage, and I think too, we, you know, we do read the fan comments.
• 20:48
  So if, if fans are obsessed with a secondary character, maybe there's a world where we bump that character up in adaptation to give them a little bit more spotlight.
• 20:59
  So there's a lot of, like, levers that we are looking at when we're looking through the adaptation lens.
• 21:05
  And I think our hope is that fans get not just what they expected from the comic in terms of those storylines and those characters, but they're getting to expand on the world so much more.
• 21:18
  If you look at a lot of the webcomics, many of them don't have extensive backgrounds, for instance, because it's pretty labor intensive, so you get a lot of full character in frame.
• 21:29
  So in a lot of these projects, it's really incredible to figure out, okay, what does Underworld look like and what does Olympus look like?
• 21:37
  Because Rachel's given us suggestions for lore Olympus in terms of, you know, light art in the background.
• 21:44
  But now that we're exploring the.
• 21:47
  The series side of things, it's like, okay, what.
• 21:49
  What does this expansive world.
• 22:00
  And.
• 22:00
  And does that gap between what's being kind of illustrated or kind of what's being imagined by the artist, the fact that there are some stuff that isn't filled in, does that invite a lot of fans to kind of
• 22:12
  come up with their own versions of stuff that isn't really expressed, but that's kind of in the margins?
• 22:19
  Do you get a lot of.
• 22:20
  Do you think there's a.
• 22:21
  Much more of that sense of the fan having an influence on.
• 22:24
  On the IP than they would traditionally have in.
• 22:27
  In other areas?
• 22:28
  Yeah, I mean, I think it's kind of like you know, thinking about other big properties like when the Harry Potter books came out, I think everyone was kind of imagining what Hogwarts and all of these different places looks
• 22:41
  like.
• 22:42
  And then at least for me, I felt like when I saw the first movie I was like, oh my gosh, the boats, you know, floating into Hogwarts.
• 22:49
  Like that's what I felt like I saw when I was reading that book.
• 22:53
  So I, I do think fans have the opportunity to kind of flex their imagination because of the, some of the limitations with a vertical scroll comic.
• 23:06
  So yeah, I think they kind of fill in the gaps and then hopefully on the adaptation side we, we fill them in in a way that they're excited about.
• 23:17
  Yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense.
• 23:20
  And then when it comes to obviously kids IP because webtoons is a 13 platform.
• 23:25
  Yes.
• 23:25
  Yeah, but kids, yeah, kids are finding, you know, particularly older kids finding comics and that kind of format really clearly.
• 23:33
  But I guess you still get the opportunity to adapt stuff for the screen that is targeted at kids because you know that the idea works.
• 23:41
  Absolutely.
• 23:42
  So the platform itself is 14 to 24.
• 23:45
  Core demographic.
• 23:47
  We don't track under 14 because of COPA regulations.
• 23:51
  Who knows what the future will hold.
• 23:53
  Maybe we will kind of open up a different part that is, you know, more geared towards a younger audience.
• 23:59
  That being said, because of the margins in the comments, we can see that there's a lot of like younger engagement on the platform.
• 24:08
  And I think to your point, Emily, you know, kids are, kids are hungry for content.
• 24:13
  So if, if broadcasters and streamers are not programming for them, they will find it somewhere else.
• 24:19
  And I, I think we saw and see a lot of that in the migration of kind of that younger Demo going to YouTube and finding these creators, finding these different stories.
• 24:29
  But I think we see a lot of them also on Webtoon because I think traditional media is not, not serving the, the audience in its fullest capacity right now.
• 24:43
  Particularly to me in the like 6 to 6 to 16 range.
• 24:49
  I would probably.
• 24:52
  And I think because of that we do see a lot of wonderful properties that, that are squarely in that age demographic that feel, feel appropriate and like can be read to very young kids, but also have really enough
• 25:09
  emotional hook and drive between the characters and the story arc that it's keeping the 15, 16, 17 plus year old, you know, readers tuned in and coming back.
• 25:21
  So yeah, we are, our development slate really covers kind of the full spectrum.
• 25:25
  I would say we don't, we don't really do too much in the preschool space primarily because to be an avid reader on the platform, you have to be able to read.
• 25:36
  So I would say middle grade plus is kind of where we live.
• 25:40
  And on the adaptation side for series and for film, plenty of titles in the four quad feature space and on the series front, a lot of titles that feel in the kind of 6 to 11 classic age demographic.
• 25:54
  Although on the media side that age demo is kind of dwindling away and now we're saying things like 4Quad and co viewing and spectacle and all these different things.
• 26:03
  So.
• 26:05
  But I, I think we're, we're very much a platform that services that audience and I think also our DNA is just so tightly connected to kind of anime and, and manga and traditional comics.
• 26:18
  And obviously there's a huge spike in readership for kind of younger fans finding those types of properties on Crunchyroll and other places.
• 26:30
  Yeah, that, that cultural specificity is interesting because obviously anime and manga is very, very popular.
• 26:40
  But you mentioned you've got a creator who's from Trinidad or you know, you've got Spanish language creators.
• 26:48
  Do you see from your, your readers that actually that specificity is really appealing now.
• 26:54
  They're looking for different flavors and different types of stories?
• 26:58
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 26:59
  I think, I think the titles that become the most successful tend to be something that is unique, that has something special.
• 27:08
  Whether that's specific lens from the creator, if that's a specific style from a creator, both I think elements of, you know, what those creators can speak to.
• 27:21
  I think that authenticity really comes through in the storytelling.
• 27:25
  But I also think, you know, manga and manoirs as a medium has really infiltrated, I think, really millennials and younger.
• 27:35
  I mean, when I think about, when I'm dating myself here, but when I was, when I was younger, if I wanted to watch, you know, an anime series, it was like a bootleg DVD or VHS of something in
• 27:48
  the back of a theater, like, you know, filming.
• 27:50
  Whereas now so much of that content is available online and, and other streaming platforms.
• 27:56
  And I think, you know, if you look at the success really of what Avatar the Last Airbender was, I think people really loved that show for a number of reasons.
• 28:07
  It was visually in line with kind of an echo of traditional anime.
• 28:12
  It had a lot of that, but I think it also had character dynamics and relationships that felt really real and authentic to that younger age demographic.
• 28:23
  It felt like first crushes and arguments with your uncle.
• 28:27
  And it felt very relatable.
• 28:30
  And I think that relatability of kind of the emotional core of a lot of that storytelling is what resonates so much with that younger audience.
• 28:39
  And I think that's why you see a lot of anime influence kind of echoed across these properties from Spain and Trinidad and Canada and all these different places.
• 28:50
  Because I think the anime influence that has been had on kind of Millennials and Gen Z and Younger is cinematic storytelling with emotional core and heart, with characters that have real stakes to what they're doing.
• 29:08
  And I think that that kind of melting pot of ingredients is really what people are craving.
• 29:15
  I think, particularly in the kids space, that we're really not serving them right now.
• 29:20
  Yep.
• 29:20
  And I wonder whether the other parallel is that with manga you have something that's relatively low cost way of developing new ideas and you can, you can kind of take creative risks in a way that the traditional TV
• 29:36
  form of developing and commissioning shows is very expensive.
• 29:41
  So.
• 29:42
  So people are risk averse and they may be.
• 29:44
  They maybe sand down the edges a bit and, and airbrush it a bit because they're worried about how it will land.
• 29:51
  But I think that kind of manga form of really having a low cost way of being able to experiment with ideas and see what sticks is a.
• 29:59
  Is a really interesting way of developing stuff.
• 30:02
  And it feels like webtoons is kind of that amplified really.
• 30:06
  Yeah.
• 30:06
  The digital version of that.
• 30:08
  Absolutely.
• 30:09
  And I think too, you know what's so great about the platform is it really does offer an opportunity for creators to start to monetize and make money.
• 30:20
  I believe we paid out about $2.8 billion to creators between 2017 and 2025.
• 30:28
  So the average creator, professional creator on the platform makes about $40,000.
• 30:33
  And the top 100 creators, which I said this at kids screen and it got kind of an audible gas.
• 30:39
  The top 100 creators make over a million dollars from the platform.
• 30:43
  So crazy.
• 30:44
  No, it.
• 30:45
  $48,000 is not a lot of money.
• 30:47
  But if you're really passionate about getting a story out there and, and if that is a way to help you monetize and you're 21 years old, you know, coming out of college, getting to make your story.
• 31:00
  Yeah.
• 31:01
  And then you're growing your audience and then, you know, if, if the other ancillary parts of our company find interest in that, which is, you know, publishing and entertainment and consumer products, then you've essentially built a franchise and
• 31:17
  been able to monetize and have this thing grow.
• 31:20
  I mean, Rachel Smythe was a graphic designer.
• 31:25
  Still is technically, you never lose that skill.
• 31:28
  But was a graphic designer and she kind of made a bet with herself where she was Like I'm going to upload an episode a week of just my thing, my, you know, my passion project that I, I just
• 31:41
  need to do something creative for myself.
• 31:43
  And I don't think in a million years she would have thought it would have evolved into a global, you know, graphic novel, multi New York Times bestseller turned into animated series property.
• 31:57
  Because she was like, I just have to, I have to tell the story and I have to get it out there and you know, even if nobody reads it, at least I did it.
• 32:04
  Yeah.
• 32:05
  Is that consistency part of the requirement?
• 32:07
  So like with something like a YouTube channel, it's always like, you know, weekly uploads, that kind of thing.
• 32:12
  Is that something you see as being as integral to webtoon or is there.
• 32:17
  Yeah, so multi parts, keep it going.
• 32:20
  Better to keep it running for a longer period rather than being like serialized to be like, oh, we'll just do 12 parts now or like, what are you seeing?
• 32:27
  Yeah, I mean there's certainly properties that are on the platform that kind of are, I would say like a limited series, like the creator who has like one story arc that they really want to tell.
• 32:40
  And that's fantastic and we have plenty of those.
• 32:44
  But I would say the ones that tend to continue to grow in their readership tend to be ongoing.
• 32:53
  You know, if you've watched all 10 episodes of something and there's no more 10 episodes to watch, you're not necessarily going to come back.
• 33:00
  Whereas what I think one piece has like 35 seasons or something like the anime something just crazy.
• 33:08
  And obviously people continue to watch it.
• 33:12
  So I think the weekly uploads really keep the fans like coming back and continuing to engage.
• 33:18
  So that's a cadence that we really try to encourage the creators to continue to stay on pace with.
• 33:23
  And you know it, when we talk about it, it sounds very easy, but it's, it's.
• 33:27
  Oh no.
• 33:28
  Yeah, consistency.
• 33:29
  Yeah, it doesn't sound easy.
• 33:32
  Podcast, we're not even drawing anything consistently.
• 33:39
  Totally.
• 33:40
  So I would say most of the creators try and bank, you know, 20 odd episodes or something so that they have like a 20 week pad to continue to create episodes.
• 33:51
  But yeah, there's a lot of best practices to kind of keep that cadence and keep that fandom coming back.
• 33:57
  So it's a, like, I think that that will be a key learning for the types of producers, you know, that are, that are here.
• 34:02
  And I think that's nearly a learning from, for the traditional entertainment ecosystem, generally speaking.
• 34:07
  It's like, like a webtoon is for, for life, not Just for Christmas.
• 34:12
  Right.
• 34:12
  Like it, you know, it's not just a one and done move on to the next project scenario.
• 34:17
  It works much better when you're developing something that you want to stay committed to.
• 34:21
  And usually I would say, you know, you're doing it like you say about Rachel, you're starting it for a reason that isn't just simply monetization.
• 34:29
  Right.
• 34:29
  I think there's other things that you're going to be getting out of it, whether it's just a bit of character development, whether it's a bit of, you know, just exploring your own ideas.
• 34:37
  You know, there needs to be other objectives to the approach, otherwise it just gets unsustainable.
• 34:44
  Yeah.
• 34:46
  And do the original creators stay involved?
• 34:50
  I assume they stay involved to some extent when, when one of their works is adapted.
• 34:55
  But again, if they're still creating and they're still carrying on with their opus and having to upload, how do you help them balance that?
• 35:03
  Yeah, I mean, I would say first and foremost the creator's priority is, is if it's an ongoing series, to keep making episodes.
• 35:13
  We are not trying to make their lives more complicated.
• 35:18
  And we have, we have a wonderful creator management team and if you're a Webtoon original, you have editorial support, et cetera.
• 35:25
  So we really try to keep, keep our creators like, as involved in terms of like sharing materials with them and keeping them updated so that they're really excited about the process.
• 35:40
  But most of our creators are not really involved on like day to day productions of things.
• 35:45
  So we have check ins and updates and share materials.
• 35:50
  So it's.
• 35:51
  Yeah, it's a balance across all of the things that they have kind of going on on their own individual slates, I think especially when those ancillary verticals start to kick off.
• 36:01
  So, you know, if the graphic novel's being adapted and published and if the series is being produced and they're still producing episodic comics, there's a lot of moving pieces I wanted to touch on for a second.
• 36:15
  Wattpad because Webtoon and wattpad as well.
• 36:17
  And wattpad is another kind of fascinating platform where folks are self publishing novels.
• 36:24
  I know like there's been a number of success stories out of wattpad too.
• 36:27
  So can you tell us a little bit about that that's in your remix?
• 36:29
  Yes, absolutely.
• 36:31
  So wattpad is essentially the novel equivalent to Webtoon.
• 36:35
  So it is a Canadian based company, about 55 different languages available on that platform and creators reading and writing all over the world, but in a novel format.
• 36:48
  So I think We've kind of encouraged creators to start to similar to kind of an episode a week, chapter a week.
• 36:56
  So there's kind of a cadence pushed now, but some creators will upload their entire manuscript and put the whole novel up in one fell swoop.
• 37:07
  And our team kind of mines that platform as well for adaptations.
• 37:11
  And as you mentioned, Emily, we've seen a lot of successful properties come out of there.
• 37:15
  The Kissing Booth movies with Jacob Elordi and Joey Keith were based off of a wattpad novel.
• 37:22
  We had a wonderful film that our team did with to be called Sidelined that ended up spitting off some additional adaptations because it was so well received, which is really exciting.
• 37:35
  So our film team has had a lot of success with wattpad as well, isn't it?
• 37:40
  Yes.
• 37:41
  Yeah.
• 37:41
  I think in large part because in terms of like novel to film it again is like enclosed story.
• 37:50
  But we have a good number of wattpad titles on, on our slate.
• 37:53
  On the animation side, which is really fun when we get to kind of take novels over, I think, because in large part there are no visuals to support it.
• 38:02
  So it's like a whole other playground for us to figure out what does this world get to look like.
• 38:09
  But I think the two companies came together several years ago.
• 38:13
  The parent company of webtoon acquired wattpad and acquisition.
• 38:19
  It really did kind of take a larger look at the fact that both of these platforms are a democratization of storytelling.
• 38:26
  So how do we really put the power of story back into.
• 38:30
  Into the hands of the user?
• 38:33
  And both companies had such a similar ethos that it made a lot of sense for us to kind of join forces, if you will.
• 38:40
  So we support both platforms across both entertainment as well as publishing.
• 38:48
  We have several imprints internally on the watpad side for publishing, and our books team essentially functions as a book agent if we don't end up publishing those in house.
• 38:57
  So we've had several titles go up to be published with Penguin Random House or HarperCollins or Scholastic, and we have amazing partners on our.
• 39:06
  On our publishing side as well as our entertainment side.
• 39:10
  Yeah, no, the democratization of storytelling for sure.
• 39:14
  So what do you have upcoming that you're excited about on your site?
• 39:19
  From a kid's point of view particularly as well.
• 39:21
  I'd love to know.
• 39:22
  Yeah, I mean, we obviously have announced Lore Olympus, which I'm.
• 39:27
  I'm very excited about.
• 39:28
  And.
• 39:28
  And while that does have like, more adult themes in certain ways, I.
• 39:33
  I think it will be appropriate, at least for teens.
• 39:37
  I don't know.
• 39:38
  I don't know if A six year old is necessarily going to be super excited to watch it.
• 39:42
  But I think, you know, across our slate, I've been really excited at the properties that we're building out to fill that kind of 6 to 16 age demographic.
• 39:56
  A lot of those titles haven't been announced.
• 39:58
  But if you, you know, look at the platforms and see some of the titles that are the most successful or feel like they offer themselves to that younger demographic, like Cloves of Death is an amazing title.
• 40:12
  It's a really amazing mashup of like the Walking Dead meets My Little Pony.
• 40:18
  Like a sprinkle of Avatar, the Last Airbender.
• 40:22
  And that creator, so amazing she actually went to school for.
• 40:29
  I believe she went to school for comics, or maybe it was graphic design, but took a comics class while she was in college.
• 40:36
  And her professor, like, kind of just planted the seed of like, well, you could always make a comic if you want to.
• 40:42
  And I think she had thought she would work in entertainment and, you know, life happened and she has a beautiful family and.
• 40:49
  And then she made this comic.
• 40:50
  And this comic is one of my favorites on the platform.
• 40:54
  It's so incredible and good, and if you go look at the art, the art is just fantastic.
• 40:59
  And I just think that's like such a cool story that, you know, she's.
• 41:03
  She's a mom and doing her mom thing, but made this amazing comic and it's reached that fandom and audience and now it's published into a graphic novel.
• 41:11
  But that one in particular, I think sits so squarely in that underserved audience demographic where it's characters and emotions with real stakes and a journey kind of adventure story and bigger lore that unfolds, but a lot of, like,
• 41:27
  silly, fun relationships.
• 41:30
  So I highly recommend Hooves of Death.
• 41:35
  Our brand management friends at Hasbro might have been.
• 41:38
  You might have given them palpitations at that picture.
• 41:42
  Fair enough.
• 41:42
  Okay, I have one final question before we wrap up.
• 41:48
  And it's.
• 41:50
  I mean, you mentioned that you're an animation professor.
• 41:53
  Yeah.
• 41:54
  What are your students reading and watching that you think, oh, I'm getting a glimpse here into where we're heading in the future.
• 42:03
  Is there anything that you hear that they're watching or reading or you think, interesting.
• 42:07
  Okay, I'm going to keep an eye on that.
• 42:08
  Yes,.
• 42:10
  It's funny.
• 42:12
  One of the classes that I teach is how to develop and pitch a television series.
• 42:16
  And at the end of that semester, I bring in a bunch of executives because by the end of the semester, they're tired of hearing from me.
• 42:24
  I Call all my friends.
• 42:25
  And I'm like, hey, can you come and hear these pitches?
• 42:29
  So my students get to pitch to Netflix executives and Amazon executives and Bad Robot executives and all Crunchyroll and all of these wonderful places.
• 42:37
  And if any of my friends are listening, thank you always for donating your time.
• 42:42
  But so they come and they, they basically do speed pitches.
• 42:45
  And then at the end of that class, I let this executive group of folks who are working in the industry and green lighting projects ask the question back, what are you reading?
• 42:56
  What are you watching?
• 42:58
  And I will say most of the students are not watching the adult comedies that you would think that a 21, 19, 20 year old audience is watching.
• 43:15
  They are really watching Anime.
• 43:20
  Free Ren is like a top title right now.
• 43:24
  Jujutsu Kaisen is a top title right now for them.
• 43:28
  But also deep cuts titles that like the Average Joe has definitely not heard of.
• 43:36
  And I think in large part because some of those more abstract titles have queer representation and LGBTQ storylines.
• 43:46
  And I think, I think the students feel like some of those stories that maybe aren't quite as mainstream reflect a lot more of their own personal experiences or their own personal expressions of who they are.
• 44:03
  So a lot of that, there's a lot of re watching of shows that continue to bubble to the top.
• 44:11
  People still love over the Garden Wall and people still love Avatar the Last Airbender and they still love Adventure Time, of course, and Steven Universe and Phineas and Ferb, titles that I think from the media perspective, we might
• 44:27
  have thought kind of came and went and no one's really thinking about anymore.
• 44:32
  But my students love those shows.
• 44:35
  They love them.
• 44:36
  They love to go back and watch them.
• 44:39
  Yeah, I think that's something we're seeing.
• 44:42
  We see a lot as well.
• 44:44
  And I think I've had this conversation with a few folks this week.
• 44:47
  It's like as an industry, we think of something as a pipeline, but to the audience, there's still plenty of stuff that's there.
• 44:53
  And Evergreen and they're returning to.
• 44:57
  And there's something about the appeal of that nostalgia as well.
• 45:00
  Yes.
• 45:00
  Comfort tv.
• 45:02
  Yeah, yeah, well.
• 45:04
  And characters that you really care about.
• 45:06
  Like, I think, I think Steven Universe continues to be something that they point to because it was one of the first titles that had queer representation.
• 45:18
  I think Avatar is probably going to be one of the most evergreen animated series of all time, in large part because it was kind of the first of its kind to have a significantly more serialized storyline.
• 45:32
  Because I think up until that point, you know, it was.
• 45:34
  It was really episodic for the 6 to 11 demographic.
• 45:40
  You know, I think Gravity Falls continues to be a fan favorite and.
• 45:46
  And again, it's because it's characters you love and worlds that you love and, and stories that feel kind of earned in that way.
• 45:55
  And I don't think, I don't think you have to be so adult and so sophisticated when you're telling stories that feel like they have emotional beats.
• 46:04
  I mean, Bluey is a great example of.
• 46:07
  Yeah.
• 46:07
  You know, who is the audience for Blue?
• 46:10
  What is that demographic?
• 46:11
  Because I know grown people at the end of the workday who turn Bluey on and plop on the couch as, you know, 30, 40 year olds with no children present to decompress at the end of the day.
• 46:24
  And obviously tons of kids love Louie and Bingo and that whole family.
• 46:28
  So, you know, who, who is it for?
• 46:31
  If it's a good story, it.
• 46:33
  It's really for everybody.
• 46:34
  Yeah.
• 46:35
  Yeah.
• 46:35
  Very great.
• 46:37
  Oh, thank you so much, Sydney.
• 46:39
  That was so fun and like.
• 46:41
  So I'm, yeah, following webtoon for years and was so delighted to meet you and I just also think that's a great note to end on.
• 46:48
  Making people.
• 46:51
  Yes.
• 46:52
  Characters that people care about.
• 46:53
  Yeah.
• 46:54
  Just make good story.
• 46:56
  Yeah.
• 46:58
  I always say, and I, I will, I will edit myself, but I always say I just want to make good stuff with good people that's, well, you know, to be.
• 47:08
  Search for that.
• 47:09
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 47:10
  And I think that comes across, I think when you make a really wonderful story and you can tell everybody who worked on it was so excited and loved it, loved showing up your job, it comes through.
• 47:22
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 47:24
  Absolutely.
• 47:25
  Yeah.
• 47:25
  Well, thank you.
• 47:26
  Thank you for joining us.
• 47:27
  We'll.
• 47:27
  We'll leave our resident Wrapper Upper, Mr.
• 47:31
  Andy Williams.
• 47:33
  Yes.
• 47:34
  Thanks so much for that, Sydney.
• 47:36
  And yeah, fascinating insight into the world of webtoons.
• 47:39
  Hope you guys enjoyed listening as well.
• 47:41
  Please let us know what you think and find us wherever you get your podcast from and we will see you next week.