Latest / The Deep Track / The Deep Track, Ep. 112 - Geneva Watch Days, Christopher Ward Drama, & Tudor Northflag

Transcript

The Deep Track, Ep. 112 - Geneva Watch Days, Christopher Ward Drama, & Tudor Northflag · The Deep Track

• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Hello and welcome to the Deep Track Podcast, an exploration of watches, trends, and culture with a few adventures along the way.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: I am your host, Blake Bettner.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: I am just returning from a week, long weekend uh in Geneva for Geneva Watch Days with Collective Horology.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: We saw some really amazing watches, met some incredible people, and uh overall, really just had a great time at the show this year.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: This is a show with a pretty exciting trajectory, and boy, this year was no exception.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of really great releases uh that that happened around the show this year, uh, even leading into the show, even from brands not participating in this show.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you can tell it just carries a lot more weight than uh than it used to in uh in in previous years.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: This is obviously still a relatively young show, so it's interesting to see it uh mature in the way that it has.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this is a slightly less formal show than something like Watches and Wonders, and that's a great thing.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh honestly, it the vibe is um, I don't know, I would say maybe more welcoming.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's certainly a little more easier going on the ground, which is uh uh certainly advantageous to the kind having the kinds of meetings and discussions that you want to be having with these people, meeting up with old friends, acquaintances, all that kind of stuff.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's just a really good scene around the city that day.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, it's a really beautiful time of the year in Geneva.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I certainly took full advantage of that.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh got up for a few runs around the lake.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: A shout out to Tim Jeffries, who uh so I ran with on one of them and uh bumped into on the other side of the lake on my other uh run.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: Boy, but yeah, what a beautiful time of the year out there.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, one of the runs I will say was with Brightling, the team at Brightling.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: The new CEO of Brightling, uh Jean-Marc Pontreux, was there and led a run uh about uh six kilometers or so, seven kilometers, uh through Geneva and kind of outside up the up the, I guess it would be kind of the north side of uh that part of the river, lake, whatever you want to call it.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: And there's kind of a small group of us that uh that joined for the run that morning.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: They had nice bright link shirts for us all to wear.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that was uh a pretty fun time.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I gotta say, I really love when brands do stuff like that.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: It feels really interactive, and it kind of gets you out of what you're used to being in uh with a lot of these brands, which is generally a lot of um, you know, pastries and uh and uh espresso and people in very nice suits and and and stuff like that.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: This this uh you know it felt a lot more personable and uh accessible, which I certainly appreciated.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Now I was also able to see uh some of the new Galais watches uh there while we uh while we were there for the run.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'll get to that in a minute.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh before we get into the rest of that, uh quick wrist check.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm wearing a CWC uh titanium, uh the 300 titanium, which no surprise, I am still uh quite fond of.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: I did not take this watch with me to Geneva.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I wore a Ming Odyssey on a titanium mesh uh for most of the trip over in Geneva, which was uh which was great.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll I'm working on a full review of that watch, which will be live over on Collective Horology uh relatively soon.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll have more to say on that one.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Keep an eye out for that.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: Now, about those Galay watches, uh I gotta say my first impression of seeing all of them left me uh, I don't know, I guess neither here nor there.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't really feel any particular strong connection to any of them.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, this is a brand I guess that I've always been aware of and appreciated, certainly, uh, but never felt a huge uh pull toward.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: And these modern renditions, I guess I kind of feel the same.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: They don't feel com particularly compelling to me personally, and I I'm not exactly sure why that is.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: I guess there's no kind of particular detail that uh um you know that that grabs me about these watches, and uh, you know, they they feel kind of in line with a lot of the other things that I see out there.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: There's uh I believe four different collections that they are launching with the flying officer, the pilot, the sport, the multi-cron uh pilot, the sport, and then the gala classics.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: Now the classic line is probably where you'll find a lot of um, you know, kind of more palatable classic designs, uh, of course, as the name states.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I I will say that the ones that I I probably liked the most uh were these multicron pilot uh watches, which have uh like a a black uh bezel insert, and I really like squared off hands, uh and these have that.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care for the inset date, uh, which I know Brightling does a lot as well.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: These are they're 42 millimeters and uh they're a little over$4,000.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: That would be probably the one that uh that I would go for if if if I had to choose, of course, some of the ones in the classic collection, the uh the yacht, the big eye chronograph.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's that's pretty sharp as well.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, all of them are kind of you know perfectly inoffensive, I guess I would say.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but none of them really have me super excited.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I guess I'm I'm but I feel I don't know, sorry to say.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm not sure what kind of expectations I had for this.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's obviously kind of slotting in as a more kind of entry-level approach into the Brightling universe, House of Brands universe, whatever they call themselves uh now.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, I don't know, there's maybe not quite enough ground being placed between um the Galais and and and Brightling.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh for some reason, I don't know, maybe I just need to spend more time with them.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: But kind of right off the bat, my first impressions, nothing really nothing really kind of grabbed hold of me the way that uh that I was hoping it would for the return of a brand like this.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: Certainly the watches that I see over in the Universal Geneve, Universal Geneve uh portfolio are are speak to me a little bit more than uh than these ones from Galay.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure the brand will do well for them at this price point, especially if they're kind of placed right alongside the uh the the kind of big brother Brightling counterparts uh there.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because you can get some of these for you know under three thousand dollars, four thousand dollars, five thousand dollars, kind of in that realm.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, I think it's an it's an easy jump to make for a lot of their uh existing customers and uh and kind of newer customers, younger people coming in looking to get into that that wanna brightling.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think this will be an easy sell uh for a lot of those people.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, but for me personally, I guess nothing there really really jumped out and um and made a great impression on me.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but that's just me.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh again, you know, if I'm able to get some more time on these things, I will certainly be happy to revisit.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, before I took off for Geneva, uh there was a release from Tudor, and it was a new, of all things, a new North flag, which was uh which is wonderful to see.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a new North Flag is obviously something that a lot of us have been uh talking about or hoping to see for for a long time now.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think this is a watch that came out in I think 2015.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: It was maybe a little ahead of its time.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: It was an integrated bracelet, uh sport watch, uh an in-house movement, one of the first watches.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that year it was the first uh watch along with a Pelagos that was released alongside it to use an in-house or manufacture, whatever you want to call it, movement from Tudor.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: So uh, you know, the design was maybe a little controversial back then, black, yellow, more modern, no throwback uh qualities about it really, uh, really at all.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: And the new one picks up on a lot of those same themes, cleans things up a bit, it ditches the uh the yellow power reserve on the dial.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I think it it's it's it's a good evolution of the watch.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: If you liked the original one, you will probably find a light to like in this one.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: I I personally am still not entirely fond of it.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: There are some yellow details that are still there in the second's hand on the uh the uh the GMT hand.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, by the way, it's a GMT uh now.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: So uh it has a 24 hour scale kind of in the ray hot.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's got four hands, still has that kind of snake's head thing going on with the hour hand, which uh which is not my uh jam, but but again, I uh you know I'm I'm I'm happy to see Tudor return to this.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I hope it's a collection that they put um I put some more thought into.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean they've definitely put some thought into it, uh, but I would love to see them continue to evolve uh this form.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: Which is, you know, honestly, I I know I've talked about this a million times, but it's something that I've said a lot about a lot of Tudor uh releases.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: I hope to see them kind of do more with it, you know, because it's got like great bones or a great structure, and I think this is certainly a watch that you could say that uh the same thing about.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: It is uh it's 40 millimeters, it still has that integrated uh bracelet, and it has a bracelet now.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it's it's certainly uh a pretty you know relatively refined execution.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: I do like the applied like loom blocks uh for the hour, uh for the hour markers, including the Arabic numerals, the 12 and the 6.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: So uh cool stuff there from Tudor, and once again happy to see the North Flag finally make a return.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Another watch that was released during the show from Zenith was the Chronomaster Solo Sport.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: And this is a watch that I uh actually had for uh about a week prior to the show and got to spend some time with it out and about, put it on a NATO and kind of wore it around.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think there's a lot you could say about this watch, and I I've I've kind of heard a lot of people be varying levels of interested in this, offended by it, or find it boring, or love it, and everything in between, which I think is a good thing, I suppose.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I guess the like we like I always say, the worst thing a watch can be is is boring and not really, you know, connect with you at all.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: And this this certain this is a watch that certainly seemed to elicit some emotions from people.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this is really kind of building on a formula that we first saw with the uh with the Chronomaster Sport chronograph uh that was released in that was released in, I believe, maybe 2020, 2021, uh somewhere in there.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: And that watch kind of capitalized on the you know, kind of high contrast ceramic bezel chronograph, uh yeah, maybe a little Daytona-esque in nature, but you know, certainly all El Primero, and you know, they have their own kind of history that they were building on.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, there is a history intertwined with the Daytona, uh, with the El Primero.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, no harm, no foul there.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: This this kind of picks up on a lot of the same notes.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: There's white and black, there's a black ceramic bezel.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, there's also a brown version as well, uh, with like gilt accents, but uh there's a textured dial here, and there's kind of like uh a crazy pointy chapter ring at the at the very edge.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of kind of interesting uh quirks and features uh here on this watch that uh that you will either maybe love or hate, but uh but it adds certainly a distinct personality uh to the watch.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, for for me, I like to see Zenith kind of play in this realm that's outside of their what we typically see them doing in the kind of heritage retro throwback kind of realm, which they do obviously really, really well.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then they've got the DeFi extreme stuff, which is you know, kind of uh, I guess extreme, you know, modern and that kind of thing.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: But there's not much in the middle ground, and this this feels like a very accessible, um, just kind of everyday kind of watch, modern watch.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's it's just a three-hand design sport watch.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think you call it a diver or something.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: I I wouldn't go that because, like, you know, on the on the Discover Now page or whatever you call it on their website, they don't even mention like the depth rating.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: They don't list it on the dial or anything like that, but I have heard that diver thrown around around this watch uh here the last few days.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, whatever you want to call it.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's it's just kind of like a pure three-hander sport watch, and it doesn't really fit neatly into like uh uh any of those genres.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: Just it's just kind of a generic, almost sport watch.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there is a version without a date, but it's only in the black dial for some reason.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the white dial, I think, you know, it looks great.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I've it seems inexplicable to me that uh that there is not a dateless version uh with with the white dial, especially considering that they they went through the trouble to make uh a dateless version here and uh and didn't kind of offer it in both configurations.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I I think there is something cool here that uh Zenith can, you know, once again kind of build on.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure we will see additional variations of this watch moving ahead.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe we'll see it in Titanium, maybe we'll see other dial colors.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: If the other watches in the Chrono Master collection are any indication, uh, you know, I would fully expect to see that.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: At around$11,000,$10,900, uh, you know, that's um there's a lot of compelling competition kind of in that price range.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I will personally say that I didn't find the kind of fit and finish, build quality, all that stuff to be kind of like right there.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um what I would expect to see a watch at that price, uh, from like how the the crown feels when you unscrew it and wind it to how the bracelet articulation feels, you know, all these kind of little things that don't really come through in pictures.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: And this is you know a criticism that I've levied against uh you know quite a few modern Zenith watches, and uh it's just something that I would wish that they would kind of uh tighten up a little bit uh moving ahead.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: But overall, you know, I think the design works.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's handsome, it's a good um it's it's a good footprint, and it's it's pretty easy to wear.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, I think they've got something on their hands here as a watch that makes sense for them.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: I do like a lot of the little small details, like the bezel has large numbers and small numbers on it.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, there's like a hierarchy there.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, again, the the chapter ring uh marking the marking the spaces between each second.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I like that design.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's it's it's kind of fun, and again, it kind of adds a little bit of personality.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh yeah, again, hopefully uh Zenith will continue to build on this one.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: Alright, and then finally, uh another big one from the show that I wanted to at least touch on here a little bit is uh the release from Bulgari and VNA Halter.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: This was boy a real surprise uh to see, honestly.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I I I think it's really cool.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_00: I like it a lot.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a fan of VNA Halter and I like the Octofinissimo.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: This is a uh a collaboration that um that works on a lot of levels to me.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of a uh a lot of contrasts coming together here that somehow works really well.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I appreciate that about it, and I, you know, I I think that um VNA Halter has kind of positioned himself as this like kind of counterculture.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't exactly kind of uh I don't know, in my mind, kind of like he's not like a perfect fit for like a big Swiss legacy brand from one of the main houses uh like this.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but here he is, and and he's been given, you know, presumably some element of of creative control here, and uh and they've really made it work.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I applaud Bulgary for going out of the way to to work with someone like him.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a lot more of my thoughts on this over on thedeeptrack.com if you want to uh read more about it.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I've got a picture of the original Antiqua there and how that kind of um you know factors into the design here, which is which is relatively overt with these kind of separate porthole elements uh making an appearance.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of this blend of like retrofuturistic, steampunkish style design mashed into this like brutalist design of the Octo, uh which is kind of all hard angles and and flat surfaces and stuff like that.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, on paper it feels like this this this shouldn't work, but uh but but it kind of does.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I like it.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: I wish they were making more of them.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think they're only making like 45 total across the two different um executions in Rose Gold and in Titanium.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: But uh but yeah, I you know this is the kind of release from the show that I think kind of raises the bar for everyone.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think going into years uh to the years in front of us that uh you know that we'll start to see releases on this level and of this caliber uh coming out around the show.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, maybe it's a chance for brands like this to kind of, you know, they let their hair down a little bit with with some of their wilder releases, um, you know, I think would be well wonderful.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe the Watches and Wonders stuff is more the kind of real commercial oriented releases, and then that's how they'll they'll separate them.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but either way, you know, color me a fan of this kind of a stuff of this kind of a thing.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh okay, so on the ground at uh Geneva Watch Days, uh this was you know a relatively different trip for me uh being there with uh Collective Forology, which was wonderful.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, getting to know uh a lot of the brands that they work with and uh getting my hands on a lot of the watches that they that they retail was awesome.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, I'm a I'm a huge fan of a lot of these brands.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: And one of them that I particularly wanted to give a shout out to was uh was Fears and the Brunswick 39 Perpetual Calendar, which um boy, I was I was quite smitten with in person uh when I was able to uh to spend some time with it.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: They did a really great job on this watch, and the it the design really comes through in a wonderful way.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, all the little details that um that work, and they had the the designer there, Lee, who was wonderful to talk to, and and all the little details and thought that went into this uh watch really come to life in a beautiful way on the wrist.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: It is fantastic on the wrist.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, this it's important to know this is a module that was developed for them with uh debris de poix, and it is 10 millimeters in thickness, and it allows for the whole watch to be 10 millimeters in thickness, which is just unbelievably impressive to me.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think when we think about a watch, a high complication watch that's using a module, you know, it uh we we generally kind of think of far thicker watches just because of that.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when I think of like the IWC perpetual calendar watches and stuff like that, you know, and I'm I don't mean anything against the using a module, I think it's fine.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh but it's it's it's generally not like the most graceful execution just because of the limitations of having to stack this stuff together.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: And they've done it here and still managed to keep it uh you know that thin is is really just remarkable.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it is phenomenal on the wrist.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: 39 millimeters, obviously, and then 10 millimeters thick and all that you know, you know, complication.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: It is um uh boy, it is really an impressive watch in the middle.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I would be you know, if if you were a person that saw this and was quick to dismiss it because of the price, you know, I I would caution you against that.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's really something special here that they've uh that they've created.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, once again, I will look forward to seeing how this evolves in their uh within their collection now that it exists and what it means for the growth of the rest of the brand.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, there is a full discussion that I had with the designer and with Nicholas about this watch that's over on a collective philology on their YouTube and on their social.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'll leave a link to that down below as well.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: One other watch I wanted to quickly shout out uh at dinner we we ran into uh Wei Ko and chatted with him for a bit.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: He had on uh the Ligare, uh a brand that he co-founded with the Giaom T2, and they created this watch, the chapter one AGP inverted.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: And uh he had one on his wrist, so I got to see it.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: And uh boy, this thing was was was really impressive.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: This uses a dual escapement set.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh this is based on a very old pocket watch movement from a young Albert Gustave Piaget uh that uh that uses a dual uh dual balances and there's a differential in the middle.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: They've they've kind of inverted that, and so so it looks like the view that you would see on you know through the back of the pocket watch is like the dial of this uh Ligare.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really fantastic.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_00: So the the there's two balances kind of along the bottom of the dial, and then they've put the second sand directly on the differential between the two of them, which is not something that we normally see.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, all the little details again here of the finishing uh of the movement, and there's this is really a nerd uh a movement that you could you could nerd out about.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'll leave a link to uh to some more details on this thing so you can check it out.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, I I gotta say I was really impressed with what I saw here, so hats off to uh Waco and Ligare for the chapter one, AGP Inverted.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, there's one final thing that I wanted to wade into here and offer some of my thoughts because it's something that I've talked about over the years with uh with other watch collectors, with other enthusiasts, with other industry people, and it's something that really kind of like came to head this week based on comments made about Christopher Ward uh from somebody else in the space, this Nico guy.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, I don't really pay attention to him, I don't watch his content or anything like that, and uh I haven't really interacted with him, I don't know him, so I I'm not gonna make any judgments uh there.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but the kind of discussion that has kicked off, I think, has been relevant, and it is something that uh that I wanted to touch on.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: And because it really makes me kind of think about what my place is and people like me, what are what are places to to be critical of brands and how we should be going about doing that in a productive manner.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Now, his comments were really kind of the effect of you know calling out Christopher Ward for being just a copy machine and and not really doing anything original and always kind of jumping on whatever trend is out there and finding a way to produce it at a low cost and in high volume, and then and then kind of pumping it out.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this is nothing new.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's something that a lot of people have have mentioned or discussed about Christopher Ward.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: And and in some sense, there are thoughts that I have had about Christopher Ward for um probably.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Over a decade since the very first watch of theirs that I reviewed, probably back in I don't know, 2012 uh range, something like that.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was a trident uh dive watch.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, they're a brand that's been on my periphery for for a very long time, uh, as a result.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: This is this is not something that I would ever say.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um I guess what was said and how he said it is not something that I ever would have said about the brand, uh, and or any brand for that matter.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, if I f have issues specifically with how a brand operates, I try to go about it in a way that is uh constructive.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, usually do it in the form of like my reviews of the watches.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: And if you read some of the reviews that I've written about Christopher Hard watches, you will find uh certainly plenty of criticisms that I hope are written in a constructive manner that is not trying to come down.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's never my intention to um to really put down the people at a brand or the people that enjoy their watches and that collect their watches.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that's my place.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think we all have our own kind of tastes and things that we're drawn to.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and that's fine.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean it's there's certainly a lot of watches that that I talk about and and review that aren't personally watches that I find attractive or connect with or whatever it is, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to sit here and come down on people who who like them and and appreciate them.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I if if if there's technically nothing wrong with the watch, and it is and it isn't in every other way, you know, impressive, then I've got no problem saying that.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I've also got no problem saying that it personally doesn't connect with with me.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think when it comes to brands and like how they operate, and if they are, you know, just pumping out homage designs and they don't really have anything creative or a vision of their own to express, then I generally don't might, you know, might not find the brand interesting, and then I just don't really talk about it, and I certainly won't um engage with the brand or ask for review samples.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: And this will lead to some people saying, you know, well, this the people, you know, these people in the media that only kind of have positive things to say about watches or brands uh because they don't want to lose access or anything like that.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's another side to that, and you know, for me it's always been I generally have positive things to say or find constructive things to say about a brand because they are doing something that I generally find interesting uh in the first place, and that's why I want to talk about them.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: There are a lot more brands that I just don't talk about because I don't want to be in the business of talking of like ragging on brands and bringing down brands and people that that like them.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if I did that, could I get a lot more eyeballs and be a lot more and be more of a flashpoint on social media and stuff?
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure that I could.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh that's just not how I operate.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's not how I want to operate.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it's easy to see through, I think, when people are doing this for a reason because they want to become that flashpoint.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, they'll take some, I don't know, fairly obvious on the surface observations that people have made about a brand and kind of flatten it into a single dimension and then kind of blast it out there without really taking the time to consider any of uh of of the gray areas there that might exist.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think that's fair to the brand.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that's fair to the people that collect uh those watches and that enjoy those watches.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: I you know, ultimately I don't think it's very constructive either, because what is a brand supposed to do with that?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think if if we are all in this space together, we should be going about this in a constructive manner that the brand can do something with if we see something there that, you know, hey, this brand has a lot of potential, they've they've got great people, and there are great people at Christopher Ward.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, trust me, I've interacted with a lot of them.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I feel like I know some of them like relatively well.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, these are people, these are good people, these aren't like evil people or anything like that.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I I want them to succeed.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: I want them to focus on building out their own original creative vision because I think they execute watches quite well.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to see them do that.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: I want to see them build on the right things.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I view it as my job to kind of identify what those right things are, and you know, in my opinion, and then I can share that.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, it would be very unproductive of me to just kind of sit here and rattle off all of like, you know, the obvious kind of criticisms that I might have of of some brands and then say, you know, well, they've totally lost a plot or something like that.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'd like to take a more kind of positive uh and optimistic and helpful, hopefully uh helpful approach uh in any way that I can uh help and and be, you know, again constructive in any criticism this that I might have.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't really view it as my place to just like put brands on blasts like that.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, if if I really kind of felt strongly that a brand that I know and love had turned a corner down a direction that that I thought was was um was wrong.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, like maybe I would say something to one of them internally, uh, but certainly not in public.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh or at least kind of try and ask or figure out, hey, what's going on here?
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, I see this, you guys are maybe going this direction.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Now it seems like you're going over here, something has changed.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: What's up with that?
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: What's going on?
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: And for so I could kind of better understand what their goals are.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_00: And if they're going into an area that I don't find interesting, then I probably wouldn't cover the brand uh so much.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: And again, there are loads of brands that I that I don't really cover or talk about just because I don't find them terribly compelling or interesting personally.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that doesn't mean that a lot of other people don't or can't, and and that's fine.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: I, you know, I just personally don't.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and again, you know, Christopher Ward is a brand that I do think does interesting things, has done some interesting things, and you know, when I spend time with their watches and review their watches, I air, you know, any grievances I have with what they're doing in hopefully a constructive manner, because that's what I think like my role and people like me's role in this space is, and that's how we can be most useful and most helpful uh to not only the brands, but to people that are you know wanting to be in this space as collectors and as enthusiasts, um, you know, really kind of understanding um you know our place in this world.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: So uh if if if you think differently, by all means, please uh you know send me a comment, send me an email, anything like that.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'd love to hear from from you on it.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think uh you know our buddy Tevin Devin Pennypacker had uh had a real good post about this as well that that I'm largely in agreement with.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, again, it's not that I that I think there's no truth in what Nico said.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think there are some things that I think some of us do feel uh about Christopher Ward.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was just done in a uh you know a terribly unproductive manner and uh and and in and probably unprofessional manner at that.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: So those are my thoughts on uh on the whole Christopher Ward thing.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Christopher Ward, you know, keep pouring gas on on your original visions, and you know, I think you how you guys produce things um is is really is is great.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I just talked about Zenith, the little details, some of the fit and finish, you know what I mean the bracelet stuff and then and and the some of the fit and finish details on Christopher Ward very much sometimes does punch above its weight.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's really important to note and to call out.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: And they've got a lot that they can continue to build on, and I hope to see them do that uh moving ahead.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: All right, that's gonna do it for this episode of the podcast.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I did make an appearance on the open work podcast uh last week.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'll leave a link to that down below.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we also recorded another episode that will come out at some point down the line, so keep an eye out for that.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I'll leave links to all this stuff down below for you to check it out at your leisure.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: All right, thank you so much for tuning in, and until next time, take care.