Latest / Morrow Marriage | Disrupting Divorce / Is Withholding Intimacy Abuse In Marriage? | Saying No Isn't Withholding | The 'NEW' Marriage | Ep461

Transcript

Is Withholding Intimacy Abuse In Marriage? | Saying No Isn't Withholding | The 'NEW' Marriage | Ep461 · Morrow Marriage | Disrupting Divorce

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Is withholding sex abuse labeling your partner and I'm gonna go with narcissist submitting to your husband triggers versus cognitive distortions, guys?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Ooh, this might trigger you and put you into your own distortion.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: 90% of marriages fail.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: Is withholding sex abuse in marriage?
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the more marketing podcast, guys.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I was wondering what your reaction would be to this topic.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Abuse.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: Who sent this question in?
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Did you send this question in?
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Are you looking at the no.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Whoever is sweating right now and looking at you, go to YouTube with my and make eye contact with me right now.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Are you sweating?
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: Is withholding sex abuse.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that is dramatic.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_00: So we can do this two ways.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Holy moly.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: We can we can address this from the front end, okay, and talk about withholding, for example, or we can address this from the back end and talk about abuse.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: What which direction do you want to go?
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Let's start with withholding.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: So can I start?
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: First of all, if a woman does not want to have sex with you, and I'm gonna I'm gonna speak in general terms because mostly it's women that withhold, not it's not always women.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: I get that.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's a lot of women coming to us now where husbands are withholding now.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, a lot.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's getting a lot more prevalent, but it's still way more women than that.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, women hold the power in this game, we'll call it, okay?
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: So if your wife is It is abuse, she's it's a game to them.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, now a game is abuse.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: Games are fun.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Don't take that and stop listening.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Keep listening.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Keep listening.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, okay.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: So what I was gonna say was if your wife is not having sex with you, it doesn't necessarily mean she's withholding.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: If you're not having sex, most women are not just withholding on purpose because they want to piss you off.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Women innately and intimately actually don't want their husbands to be pissed off.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Because you know what?
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: When you're pissed off, gentlemen, you're scary as fuck.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: No woman wants to piss off a man and have him fly off the rocker or go silent.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: No woman wants that unless she's a kook.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: Which there are some of you out there.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: You maybe you like it, you thrive on conflict.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Most of you, most of you don't want that.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: So you do everything in your power to not make your husband gook kook himself.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: So if she's not having sex with you, it doesn't mean she's withholding.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the first thing that I want to start with.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: What do you have to say about that, baby?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I want to say this.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: If you use the word withholding, uh Dr.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Robert Glover always talks about withholding, and she needs to be available.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think that you're a real loser, if that's how you think.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Before you get upset because I'm calling you a loser, think about it like this.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: They're withholding from me.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: They're not available for me.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm entitled.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Forget well, we can talk about entitlement, but first just think about that.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: What you're basically saying is I don't care about how they feel about me or what they want, what they need, to be there, to be ready, to desire, to anything, to have any inclination to want to even be a good partner, to have intention.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: You're when you say withholding or you say uh you're not available, you're literally saying, I don't care if you lay there, bend over, just to give me what I need.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: I really believe that.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: What's abuse now?
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we'll get to that.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_00: We'll get to that.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: This is a controversial topic today.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, now.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: I also have another thought about withholding.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, go.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: So, women, you should not be withholding.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: Saying no is not withholding.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Saying no to sex is not withholding sex.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Withholding is like a conscious, malicious intent to not give your husband something that you know he needs and that you need between the two games.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: Traditional sex as a weapon, which as a weapon, yes.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: I firmly believe that's not like people aren't using weapon.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: Now we know that some people do.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that's manipulative.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: If that's you, stop doing that.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Same thing.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's withholding as a weapon, is what we're saying here.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: If you're like, no, I don't want to because that's malicious.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not doing this because I'm doing it to punish you.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: No, who are you?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you trying to punish your husband?
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Don't you want to reconnect with your husband?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: Or your wife.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's fine.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: When there's some sort of rupture, you want to reconnect.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I'm done.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm off my soapbox.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: That just reminds me.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: I might get back on it, guys.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: Janice and I were just coaching the women, and we were talking, and there's a woman who's trying to have more sex with her husband right now, and once a week is lots for her, but I'm encouraging her to have more, like once more a week.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: And there was a conversation that she needs to have and wants to have with them.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: And for you guys, it doesn't really matter, but it's really about safety and boundaries and like just past trauma and wanting to move forward.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: She wants, that's the gist.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: She wants to move forward.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so she asked what a best time was, and this is kind of building off what you were just saying.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Well, girl, I asked you to have sex with them one more time a week.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_00: So just do that.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then when it's great, give him great feedback.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: He's been a wonderful husband.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's why you're interested and want to do more.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a good time to have the conversation.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're not withholding, we're we're entertaining the fact that marriage all has this gift that you're gonna and everybody's happy.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody just got happy.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: So why don't we just have this conversation now?
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: While everyone's happy.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: While everyone's happy, and then we can talk about moving forward, which is also happy, even if it's not where we want to be yet.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: Anyways, that's the last thing I want to say about withholding.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Good?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: Now, is it abuse?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, if we look at, you know, they're punishing me by not having sex, if we look at withholding intentionally, maliciously, if we look at the fact that um I'm choosing not to be available, which I don't think any person probably ever says, uh, but you know, you can do this in so many ways.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Just make sure it doesn't happen.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay?
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like look down at the floor.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: Remember, I used to look just stare, not look at you for like weeks and just stare at the floor and look, I wouldn't look at her.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm intentionally at this point trying to ignore her so nothing escalates.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: And really, if I look back, it's because I would escalate.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: Did I have anything to do with sex?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: No, but it definitely is going to trickle over into every other level of injury.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: You were withholding everything.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: Forget about sex.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: You were withholding connection, communication, eye contact.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say that's, and that's many of you.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: I know it, okay?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: It probably wouldn't be weeks like I did.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: I would dare say, like the night, a few days is very common.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: The cold shoulder.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: The common cold shoulder.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna say that that is now we're we're basically talking this out today, guys.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: We haven't had this discussion, but I'm gonna say that that is abuse.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're consciously choosing to pull back and withhold everything.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Let's forget sex again for a second, just because it's I think it's connected.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's abuse.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think if you can prove that she's withholding, I think that whoever's they are.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: They I'm gonna say she just pronounced.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: But if they're withholding consciously to mess with you, that does I think dance on the line of abuse.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's manipulation.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Manipulation leads to wars.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: And manipulation is called manipulation for a reason.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's not called abuse, it's called manipulation.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: And manipulation can turn into abuse.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that there's definitely a line here.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I can appreciate the question, but but you'd have to be.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: I've been talking to a lot of lawyers lately.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say you have to have like reasonable evidence that you can prove that they're withholding intentionally to hurt you.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the problem is if they are doing it to hurt you intentionally, maliciously, they're not gonna tell you.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: So the problem is most of you go back to the last episode, we talked about assumptions being a killer in the marriage, but like if if you understand that, you're probably not having great evidence and you're just assuming.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: Now, go back to like when I was purposely disconnecting on every single level.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, you have a lot of strong evidence, okay?
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: But if you understand the point that we take, which is taking like you and saying, What could excuse me, what could I do differently?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, like, how do you respond?
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, she softened me in the three weeks, we'd be like two weeks to one week to less and less and less and less to where we could connect faster again, right?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so, now, abuse, is it abuse?
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: She's right.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Manipulation is manipulation, it's not called abuse, it's called manipulation.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: Some people say manipulation is a form of abuse.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_00: I just dare say that if you're doing anything like that, even if it's just withholding sex, not just, but you know what I mean?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Not all of it.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like, well just withholding sex as compared to like rape.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: I I think that like the bottom line is if you're doing that consciously, you're probably doing a lot of other things.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, get out of the gray area.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's get out of the gray area.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I lean more towards it, probably is abuse.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: You're probably not trying to manipulate, you probably are abusing them because you're trying to hurt them.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: So whether or not you do get to hurt them, and get is a strong fucking word here, but like you are.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so if that's the case.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: Whether or not it hurts them.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so I'm gonna say that that is abuse.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because we don't get to define what hurts.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: And disconnection hurts.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Let's get real.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: Every one of you listening has all already been through that at some point.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, take back my eye rolling, guys.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: I take it back.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: It is sort of, can be, potentially is abuse.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: She clarified it four times.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: And you know why?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: That was only three.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Because the three different ways.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: And you know why?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was four, but I'm I'm not gonna double check right now.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm gonna tell you this is why she did that.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's because in almost two and three-quarter years of having a podcast, that's the first time that I won the debate.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, she used a good debate.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: So making some headway.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so, now that being said, he wins almost everything though.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: He speaks more than I do, meaning he wins more.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Because I don't argue.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Guys, there's nothing.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: Unless I have a really strong.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's because I'm a really good debater.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: I only I only argue when I know I can win.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: Is it abuse?
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: Based off what we were talking about, I think you have your answer.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: Next point.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: You have your answer.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: But here's what's more relevant, okay?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: You want to focus on connection, not the negative.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: We just spend so much time with our clients talking about like a reframe in their mind.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody goes to the negative, everybody goes to their withholding, for example.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: They don't want me, okay?
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: When we talk about affairs, that I'm like, well, what about you?
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: What did you do to cause the affair that led to the affair?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: All this stuff.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: We have to go to the positive.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: What is it that I want in this life?
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: The hugless marriage guy, we give this example all the time.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Are you going to try, anyways?
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: Rather than worrying about your partner withholding from you, why don't you focus on how you can connect with them?
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Not by going and taking what they're withholding.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, different ways.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely not.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we have to clarify because somebody fucking took my go get your wife and used that against their wife, but fucking gross.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, um, and I'm not judging you, I was a bad man, but like do something about it.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: Don't fucking twist my words.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, um I want you, if you feel like you need to know if it was abuse because of what they're doing to you, that's why you care about this topic.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so I want you to start focusing on what you could do to create connection, to think of the positive and less of all that negative shit.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because listen, nobody can out hate somebody who outloves.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, the devil will be winning every day.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay?
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like you literally have to start loving on them in a different way and connecting with them on a way, not the way that you think, because that's not working.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Don't start and something.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's right.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: Get rejected and handle the rejection.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because people, if you get to the point where your partner's withholding, they literally don't want to have anything to do with you.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like they don't want to touch you.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: They just don't.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: If that's the case, it's your behavior that makes that possible.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'm not saying that there's other, there's other reasons, we're not getting into those today.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're just talking about the regular nitty-gritty, we're fighting, we're not getting along, we're disconnected, we're doing all this stuff.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: You're typically handling rejection in such a poor way that it's getting worse and worse and worse.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's a choice to with withhold.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: Forget if it's abuse or if it's wow, they're making a terrible choice to it.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because you shouldn't want them like that anyway.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: You should want them to want to connect with you.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: And if that's the case, then that means you should want to connect with them.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Pretty much everybody not having sex says that.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: I use this for connection.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: So if that's the case, go fucking connect without having sex.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: Get there.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Start there first.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: See you next time.