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The Prince and the Paper · Big Brother: North Korea’s Forgotten Prince

0:09
Speaker 1: It's September two thousand four, an unusually humid day in Beijing,
0:16
Speaker 1: and Yoji Comi, a Japanese newspaper journalist, stands in the
0:21
Speaker 1: first floor lobby of Beijing Capital International Airport, surrounded by
0:25
Speaker 1: a gaggle of newspaper, radio, and television reporters. Comy is
0:31
Speaker 1: rail thin with studious classes. As crews set up their
0:36
Speaker 1: TV cameras and microphones, he anxiously clutches his voice recorder
0:41
Speaker 1: and a reporter's notebook. The group is waiting for a
0:44
Speaker 1: North Korean Ministry official to walk through the terminal. He's
0:48
Speaker 1: arriving today, allegedly for economic talks. Comey scans a sea
0:54
Speaker 1: of faces floating through the terminal, looking for any sign
0:58
Speaker 1: of the Deputy Director General, but no luck. Instead, a
1:03
Speaker 1: TV reporter nudges him and points at a man who
1:05
Speaker 1: just walked past, remarking how similar he looks to Kim
1:10
Speaker 1: Jong Nam. It can't be jong Nam himself, can it? This? Again?
1:15
Speaker 1: Was two thousand four, three years after the Tokyo Disneyland incident.
1:21
Speaker 1: Nobody outside of North Korea had seen nor heard much
1:25
Speaker 1: from Kim Jong Nam. Since Comi had to get a
1:29
Speaker 1: better look the man in question is alone. Pudgy but
1:33
Speaker 1: cleanly shaven, carrying a small handbag, Comie briskly walks toward
1:39
Speaker 1: the man, intercepting his path. He clicks his voice recorder
1:43
Speaker 1: on and then he blurts it out, are you Mr
1:46
Speaker 1: Kim jong Nam? Almost without hesitation. The man turns, stars
1:51
Speaker 1: comey in the eye and says that is right. Soon,
1:55
Speaker 1: a small crowd of journalists is following the mysterious man
1:59
Speaker 1: who just lane to be King jong Nam. They pelt
2:02
Speaker 1: him with questions. Why is he here? Is his father
2:06
Speaker 1: angry with him? Where is he going? Is he really
2:09
Speaker 1: traveling alone? What do you do? One of them asks?
2:13
Speaker 1: Kim jong Nam dismisses the question with a wave of
2:16
Speaker 1: his hands, saying I can't comment. He picks up the pace,
2:21
Speaker 1: trying to escape. Near the terminal exit, a group of
2:25
Speaker 1: Chinese men approached the pool of journalists. Comy looks them
2:29
Speaker 1: up and down and realizes their bodyguards of some type.
2:33
Speaker 1: They probably came to escort the North Korean prince to
2:35
Speaker 1: his taxi. The journalists moved outside to the sidewalk where
2:40
Speaker 1: a carousel of cars await. They badger Chong Nam with
2:44
Speaker 1: more questions. He bats them away. I don't know. I
2:51
Speaker 1: don't know. A taxi pulls up and Kim jong Nam
2:54
Speaker 1: flings the door open. Comey's instincts kicking. He reaches into
2:59
Speaker 1: his pocket, pulls out a business card and stretches it
3:02
Speaker 1: toward the door. About five other journalists do the same.
3:06
Speaker 1: Tonguam smiles, gently takes the cards and says, I will
3:11
Speaker 1: contact you when I get to Beijing. The door closes
3:15
Speaker 1: and the taxi rolls off. Days would pass, then weeks
3:26
Speaker 1: and months, but Comey heard nothing from the Dear Leader's
3:30
Speaker 1: elusive son. By winter, Comey had practically forgotten what happened
3:35
Speaker 1: in the Beijing airport. He's a journalist. People promise to
3:39
Speaker 1: return his messages all the time and then don't. It
3:43
Speaker 1: doesn't mean anything. And then in early December two thousand four,
3:50
Speaker 1: Comy turns on his computer and notices an unusual message
3:54
Speaker 1: written in Hunger, the Korean writing system. The title says greetings.
4:02
Speaker 1: Comey opens the message, it begins, Hello, this is Kim
4:09
Speaker 1: jong Nam. I'm even lee. In this episode, the story
4:17
Speaker 1: of the revealing friendship between a Japanese journalist and Kim
4:20
Speaker 1: Jong Nam and how when his baby brother took power
4:25
Speaker 1: it changed everything the leader of North Korea turned out
4:30
Speaker 1: officials because they proved to be disloyal. There's also potential
4:35
Speaker 1: security implications, and when it comes to Kim Jong nun's
4:38
Speaker 1: own life, old totalitarian dictators, by their nature are paranoid.
4:44
Speaker 1: They white up every morning thinking is this going to
4:46
Speaker 1: be my last day? This is big brother. In the
4:55
Speaker 1: early two thousand's, the occasional Kim jong nam sighting was
4:59
Speaker 1: the closest the media could get to the Kim dynasty.
5:04
Speaker 1: He was like a socialist sasquatch, a reclusive creature that
5:08
Speaker 1: lumbered unannounced through airport terminals or city sidewalks, and when
5:13
Speaker 1: journalists did spot him, like this airport encounter in two
5:17
Speaker 1: thousand nine, they usually couldn't get much out of him.
5:25
Speaker 1: I cannot tell. The rare sighting would drive the world
5:33
Speaker 1: of political gossip into a tailspin, and the more Kim
5:38
Speaker 1: jong Nam was seen, the more speculation there was about
5:41
Speaker 1: his activities for the regime, and the more speculation, the
5:46
Speaker 1: murkier the truth became. It's impossible to say with certainty
5:52
Speaker 1: what exactly Kim jong nam was doing all that time.
5:55
Speaker 1: Was he still working for his father or was he
5:59
Speaker 1: living in endless vacation in Macau. Was he banished from
6:03
Speaker 1: his homeland where had he simply opted for a more
6:05
Speaker 1: capitalistic lifestyle. It's unclear, but here's what we do know.
6:11
Speaker 1: Kim jong Nam may have started living in a villa
6:14
Speaker 1: outside Beijing, protected behind the walls of a gated community
6:18
Speaker 1: as early as We also know that around that time
6:24
Speaker 1: to Nam had a son named Kim hans Hole. We
6:28
Speaker 1: also know that parenthood didn't stop him from his jet
6:32
Speaker 1: setting playboy ways. Journalists and intelligence officials kept tabs on
6:37
Speaker 1: Kim jong Nam's movements thanks to the testimony of girls
6:41
Speaker 1: working red light districts across Asia who took note of
6:44
Speaker 1: a portly high roller who devoured sashimi, drained bottles of Hennessy,
6:49
Speaker 1: and paid good money to spend time with his favorite women.
6:53
Speaker 1: Intelligence officials verified that this heavy spender was Kim jong
6:57
Speaker 1: Nam thanks to two tattoos on his back, one of
7:01
Speaker 1: a tiger, another of a koi fish in the garish
7:04
Speaker 1: style preferred by the Japanese mafia. Here's Anna Fifield. We
7:10
Speaker 1: do know that he had some admiration for or lose
7:14
Speaker 1: ties with the yakuza in Japan and the Chinese triads.
7:18
Speaker 1: He did have this very elaborate Koi fish tattoo, which
7:24
Speaker 1: is something often associated with triads and yakuza in Asia.
7:29
Speaker 1: So suggestions but no smoking gun to say that he
7:33
Speaker 1: was deeply embedded in the criminal underworld. That's just one
7:38
Speaker 1: of many rumors. People in Macau claimed to see Kim
7:42
Speaker 1: jong Nam wasting his days and nights drinking and gambling.
7:47
Speaker 1: Others speculated that he was still doing work for the regime,
7:51
Speaker 1: possibly laundering money. Others claimed that he had been completely
7:55
Speaker 1: cut off. According to five Fields book Words, circular did
8:00
Speaker 1: that Kim jong Nam's only linked to the regime was
8:03
Speaker 1: long alcohol fueled phone calls he routinely had with his aunt,
8:08
Speaker 1: Kim Jong Il's sister. Some suggest he was receiving an
8:11
Speaker 1: allowance from her husband and his uncle Chang Chong Tech.
8:15
Speaker 1: Kim jong Nam was extremely close to his uncle Joan
8:19
Speaker 1: Song Tech, so he was acting as an uncle of
8:22
Speaker 1: father figure, very close and and advocating for Kim jong
8:26
Speaker 1: Nam and his interests, and that bond stayed over time
8:32
Speaker 1: as Kim jong Nam grew up. If true, Kang Song
8:36
Speaker 1: Tech might have been Kim jong Nam's last saving grace
8:39
Speaker 1: in the eyes of the regime. Keek was a mover
8:42
Speaker 1: and shaker, a charismatic statesman in charge of developing North
8:47
Speaker 1: Korea's financial dealings with China. He flew around the globe
8:52
Speaker 1: buying up resources for the country's development projects, from coal
8:56
Speaker 1: mines to construction sites. Some like to call him the
9:00
Speaker 1: Kim jong Il who goes abroad, and like Kim Jong Nam,
9:05
Speaker 1: he was an advocate for modernizing North Korea. They both
9:09
Speaker 1: were proponents of opening up, reforming or improving in North
9:15
Speaker 1: Korean words, the economy, and following a more Chinese path
9:20
Speaker 1: of economic liberalization without political change. The difference was Chang
9:26
Speaker 1: Song Tech was clearly still in Kim Jong Il's inner circle.
9:30
Speaker 1: He was the Dear Leader's right hand man. Kim Jong Nam,
9:35
Speaker 1: by all appearances, was not. None of this information was
9:40
Speaker 1: new to a journalist like Yoji Gomi. He had been
9:44
Speaker 1: covering North Korea's palace dramas for years, and when he
9:49
Speaker 1: first saw that message from Kim Jong Nam reach his inbox,
9:52
Speaker 1: he was skeptical that it was actually the exiled prince
9:55
Speaker 1: reaching out to him. Comy wanted to confirm the man's
9:59
Speaker 1: idea entity, so he went for it and replied, would
10:03
Speaker 1: it be possible to meet and talk. That same day,
10:08
Speaker 1: Kim jong Nam replied with two emails. Both answers dodged
10:13
Speaker 1: the question. I am always hard at work for my country.
10:18
Speaker 1: I apologize for not being able to answer more, wishing
10:21
Speaker 1: you the best of health. Have a nice weekend, respectfully,
10:26
Speaker 1: Kim jong Nam. It wasn't much, but Comy's heart raced.
10:31
Speaker 1: This could become the scoop of a lifetime. The fact
10:35
Speaker 1: that a member of North Korean royalty had contacted the
10:38
Speaker 1: media brief as it was, was news in and of itself.
10:42
Speaker 1: And the fact Hong Nam suggested he was still working
10:44
Speaker 1: for the regime but in Macau begged a question what
10:48
Speaker 1: was he doing? Was he a spy? Was he laundering money?
10:52
Speaker 1: Was he acting as some sort of liaison with the Chinese?
10:55
Speaker 1: Trying to become like his uncle Chang Song Tech So
10:59
Speaker 1: Comey paba is to story in the Tokyo Shimbun newspaper.
11:03
Speaker 1: A few days later. When Kim Jong Nam learned Comey
11:06
Speaker 1: had published an article about his short email messages, he
11:09
Speaker 1: wrote again, chiding the journalists for not verifying his identity.
11:14
Speaker 1: Are you writing up and sending in stories without confirming
11:17
Speaker 1: that I'm in fact? Kim Jong Nam is that what
11:20
Speaker 1: you do? But Comey could tell that there was a
11:23
Speaker 1: smart lurking behind the message, I don't mind your writing
11:28
Speaker 1: stories based on our communications at all, Comey's mind began
11:32
Speaker 1: to whirl. Here was a man who knew the ins
11:35
Speaker 1: and outs of one of the most secretive societies on
11:38
Speaker 1: the planet. The journalists began cooking up ways to entice
11:42
Speaker 1: the source into a face to face meeting. Other journalists
11:46
Speaker 1: receiving Kim jong Nam's messages weren't as enthusiastic. Many were
11:50
Speaker 1: doubting his identity, and Kim Jong Nam wasn't happy about it.
11:56
Speaker 1: One day, Comey opened his inbox and found a testy email.
12:02
Speaker 1: I continued to sense their strong doubts and skepticism about
12:06
Speaker 1: my true identity. Based on this, I must tell you
12:10
Speaker 1: that I will terminate all communications with reporters as of today,
12:14
Speaker 1: wishing you a healthy and fruitful year end and New Year, respectfully.
12:20
Speaker 1: Self proclaimed Kim jong Numb or person presumed to be
12:25
Speaker 1: Kim jong Nam. Comey was crestfallen. After two days of
12:31
Speaker 1: feverish emailing. The biggest scoop of his career had collapsed.
12:37
Speaker 1: His inbox went silent six years past and then on October. Hello,
12:52
Speaker 1: this is Kim jong numb. I hear that you are
12:55
Speaker 1: very knowledgeable about North Korea, and I am willing to
12:58
Speaker 1: answer any question as you might have. The timing of
13:22
Speaker 1: Kim jong Nam's email and two thousand and ten was telling.
13:27
Speaker 1: One month earlier, his father had publicly announced that his
13:30
Speaker 1: younger half brother, the year old Kim Jong un, would
13:35
Speaker 1: be the successor. Did Kim jong Nam reach out to
13:38
Speaker 1: Comy because he was jealous? Was he feeling spurned by
13:42
Speaker 1: his father? Had the relationship broken down? Was Kim jong
13:46
Speaker 1: Nam scared HOMEY had to know? Any expert will tell
13:53
Speaker 1: you the Kim inner circle can be a terrifying place
13:57
Speaker 1: during a change of leadership. The country has a history
14:01
Speaker 1: of squashing any and all competition when a new leader
14:05
Speaker 1: is installed. Here's Michael Madden. It goes all the way
14:10
Speaker 1: back to the forties, when the Soviets installed Kim John
14:13
Speaker 1: UN's grandfather, Kim Il sung, into office. After Kim Il
14:17
Speaker 1: sung was made chairman, splinter groups of pro Soviet and
14:20
Speaker 1: pro China communists banded together to replace him, arguing that
14:25
Speaker 1: Kim had failed to follow the Leninist principle of collective leadership.
14:31
Speaker 1: Like any good guerilla leader Kim Il sung enlisted his
14:34
Speaker 1: supporters to arrest those who questioned him, and then he starts.
14:41
Speaker 1: He starts to eliminate people, very very early on in
14:44
Speaker 1: the regime. As the regime forms ten years later, it
14:50
Speaker 1: would happen again. A band of Kimil Song's guerrilla comrades
14:55
Speaker 1: advocated for economic change and attempted to install a new
14:59
Speaker 1: leader named Pak Kumtung. Kimo Song was familiar with his competitor.
15:06
Speaker 1: The two men had fought side by side against the Japanese.
15:10
Speaker 1: They were even friends, but that meant nothing. When pac
15:15
Speaker 1: threatened the Supreme Leader's power, he and all of his
15:19
Speaker 1: supporters were purged. Anyone associated with the subversive character would
15:24
Speaker 1: either be dismissed from their posts or exterminated altogether. And
15:30
Speaker 1: this has become something of a tradition ever since. It's
15:36
Speaker 1: just the nature. It's just the nature of the North
15:38
Speaker 1: Korean political culture that the leader of North Korea turns
15:41
Speaker 1: out officials because they proved to be disloyal, or that
15:44
Speaker 1: they proved they might form alternative power centers and take
15:48
Speaker 1: all of the glory and attention away from the leader.
15:52
Speaker 1: Kim Jong il would make similar changes when he was installed,
15:58
Speaker 1: and so too it was expected, would Kim Jong un
16:03
Speaker 1: forget quaint notions of filial piety, forget the rhetoric of Chu,
16:09
Speaker 1: forget the propaganda of the personality cult. The Kim regime
16:13
Speaker 1: is driven largely by one emotion, and one emotion alone, paranoia.
16:20
Speaker 1: Totalitarian dictators, by their nature, are paranoid the white cap
16:24
Speaker 1: every morning thinking is this going to be my last day?
16:27
Speaker 1: Kim Il sung learned this lesson early from the days
16:30
Speaker 1: his uncle was betrayed by a family friend and from
16:35
Speaker 1: the factions of ex friends who tried to overturn his
16:38
Speaker 1: rule in the nineteen fifties. The resulting paranoia would become
16:43
Speaker 1: the foundation of North Korea's institutions, including its brutal prison
16:48
Speaker 1: camps or quality so many individuals would say that the
16:53
Speaker 1: camps have basically come about as a result of having
16:58
Speaker 1: to deal with population that was considered hostile to the regime.
17:04
Speaker 1: That again is Dr Sandra Fahey. She's the author of
17:08
Speaker 1: the book Dying for Rights, which investigates North Korea's human
17:12
Speaker 1: rights abuses. As she explains, originally North Korea's prison camps
17:18
Speaker 1: were built to detain Japanese sympathizers and any anti camp sentiment.
17:23
Speaker 1: When Korea was divided and when the Soviet Union installed
17:28
Speaker 1: Kim Il sung, the North Koreans needed to make sure
17:33
Speaker 1: that within the community, within the country, there weren't going
17:38
Speaker 1: to be individuals who questioned Kimilsung, so those individuals had
17:41
Speaker 1: to be basically taken away, but the list of potential
17:44
Speaker 1: offenses would quickly expand. Today, anybody can be sent to
17:50
Speaker 1: hard labor camp for committing minor crimes such as gossiping
17:54
Speaker 1: or like one poor journalists found out misspelling the Supreme
17:59
Speaker 1: leader's name. For North Korea, the threat of a prison
18:03
Speaker 1: camp is a powerful tool for scaring the populace into
18:07
Speaker 1: compliance and a way to save money with slave labor.
18:13
Speaker 1: They wanted to make use of these individuals, so they
18:15
Speaker 1: make them work, and that's why they didn't just completely
18:18
Speaker 1: exterminate them. In the camps, political prisoners spend hours a
18:23
Speaker 1: day mining for coal, gold, or iron. Others are routinely
18:29
Speaker 1: sent to re education camps for brainwashing, or, as Dr
18:34
Speaker 1: Fahey calls it, an ideological booster shot. Locals have a
18:38
Speaker 1: name for this kind of punishment. It's called being sent
18:43
Speaker 1: to the mountains. That's a heartbreaking detail of life in
18:47
Speaker 1: North Korea. If you are sent to prison in North Korea,
18:51
Speaker 1: you enter a whole different realm of human experience. Prison
18:56
Speaker 1: is not the punishment. Prison is the place where more
18:59
Speaker 1: punishment happens. Physical torture, sexual abuse, for starvation. Those are
19:06
Speaker 1: just a few of the things waiting for those in
19:09
Speaker 1: the North Korean prison camps. The conditions are frankly unspeakable.
19:14
Speaker 1: About of all prisoners die from malnutrition. Reports claim that
19:21
Speaker 1: people survive off literal crumbs, sometimes fighting over pucks of
19:26
Speaker 1: cow dung hoping to find a kernel of corn. And
19:31
Speaker 1: it's the fate of anybody who dares to threaten the
19:33
Speaker 1: line of succession or criticize the regime. And that that
19:40
Speaker 1: was the risk Kim jong Nam was taking when he
19:43
Speaker 1: started talking to a journalist. Because the camps, they don't discriminate.
19:50
Speaker 1: Even Kim Jong Nam's uncle, the beloved Chang Song Tech,
19:54
Speaker 1: the number two leader in the whole country, had been
19:57
Speaker 1: sent to a re education camp before. If it happened
20:01
Speaker 1: to him, it could happen to anybody, including Kim jong Nam,
20:08
Speaker 1: But that didn't stop him. In the weeks after his
20:12
Speaker 1: little brother was named successor, Kim jong Nam began an
20:16
Speaker 1: intense digital friendship with the Jikomi. The two would share
20:22
Speaker 1: more than one hundred and fifty emails. Take your time
20:27
Speaker 1: to get your questions ready and emailed them to me.
20:31
Speaker 1: I'll respond as sincerely as I can, and off the
20:35
Speaker 1: record conversation might be possible, provided that you keep your word.
20:45
Speaker 1: Six years since their last email, Kim jong Nam no
20:48
Speaker 1: longer seemed worried about offending the regime. The recent succession
20:53
Speaker 1: announcement apparently had provoked him and the disdain spilled into
20:58
Speaker 1: his emails. There has been no precedent for a third
21:02
Speaker 1: generation dynasty except during the feudal dynasty period. People agree
21:07
Speaker 1: to the fact that the third generation dynasty does not
21:10
Speaker 1: comply with socialism either. I also believe that our father,
21:14
Speaker 1: who was more negative about third generation dynasty than anybody else,
21:19
Speaker 1: was compelled to carry out the dynastic succession due to
21:22
Speaker 1: strong internal factors, where North Korean people are used to
21:27
Speaker 1: believing in following only the so called pick to bloodline.
21:31
Speaker 1: I personally assumed that some troublesome situations were expected if
21:35
Speaker 1: a successor outside the bloodline were to appear. The peck
21:39
Speaker 1: to bloodline, as Kim Jong Nam saw it, the myth
21:43
Speaker 1: embraced by his grandfather, which had helped solidify the family's rule,
21:49
Speaker 1: had also trapped them. In a truly communist system, there
21:54
Speaker 1: would be collective leadership, but for the past sixty years,
21:58
Speaker 1: the state has sold the North Korean people on the
22:01
Speaker 1: lie that the true leader must have pure blood, and
22:06
Speaker 1: now they were boxed in. I think North Korea determined
22:11
Speaker 1: that even if it were to move towards a collective
22:14
Speaker 1: leadership system in the future, unless the leaders appointed from
22:17
Speaker 1: the pict bloodline, it would not be able to maintain
22:21
Speaker 1: the power elite, and so it carried out the third
22:24
Speaker 1: generation following the pict bloodline and consideration of North Korea's
22:29
Speaker 1: internal uniqueness. I am opposed to a third generation dynasty. However,
22:35
Speaker 1: I said that if there was a need to push
22:37
Speaker 1: forward the third generation dynasty for the sake of the
22:40
Speaker 1: internal stability of North Korea, we must comply with it.
22:45
Speaker 1: This last part made Comey's ears perk up. Kim Jong
22:49
Speaker 1: Nam kept vaguely mentioning internal stability and internal factors. Comey
22:56
Speaker 1: had wanted to know what exactly those internal fact there's were.
23:02
Speaker 1: Kim Jong Nam did not hold back. This is my
23:05
Speaker 1: personal view, but when I try to think about how
23:08
Speaker 1: many of the top officials who assist my father and
23:11
Speaker 1: the successor in North Korea sincerely care about the livelihood
23:15
Speaker 1: of the North Korean people. I regret to say there
23:18
Speaker 1: are not that many. In reality, there are treacherous attendants
23:23
Speaker 1: who devote themselves to toadyism in order to survive, and
23:27
Speaker 1: those who solely pursue their own comfort and formed barriers
23:31
Speaker 1: between the people and the leader by telling lies about
23:33
Speaker 1: state affairs. I hope such people will be removed from
23:37
Speaker 1: around my father and the successor. I definitely believe they
23:41
Speaker 1: will not be beneficial for the development of North Korea
23:45
Speaker 1: and for the future of the successor. In other words,
23:49
Speaker 1: Kim Jong Nam knew that his father was surrounded by
23:53
Speaker 1: sycophants and suck ups, people who are more interested in
23:56
Speaker 1: their own safety and security than that of regular people.
24:01
Speaker 1: Comey asked Chong Nam if he ever got to talk
24:03
Speaker 1: to his father about these problems. Nam's reply, All the time,
24:09
Speaker 1: I tell him about what I think, frankly, without any
24:12
Speaker 1: rehearsed script. In the past, I've directly spoken to him
24:16
Speaker 1: about the concerns of the international community about the nuclear
24:20
Speaker 1: tests and missile launching tests. Reading these messages, it was
24:24
Speaker 1: clear to call me that Kim jong Nam was not
24:27
Speaker 1: an exile at all, but was in fact one of
24:30
Speaker 1: the few people close to the Supreme Leader and one
24:33
Speaker 1: of the few people who is actually brave enough to
24:37
Speaker 1: tell him the truth. The distance gave him some protection,
24:43
Speaker 1: some latitude to tell his father what he didn't want
24:46
Speaker 1: to hear. The distance also solidified his feelings that North
24:50
Speaker 1: Korea had to change. According to my common sense, reform
24:56
Speaker 1: and liberalization are considered to be essential for a any
25:00
Speaker 1: economic development. While staying in China for many years, I
25:04
Speaker 1: have directly witnessed and experienced how China achieved development all
25:09
Speaker 1: of these statements, These were the types of things that
25:12
Speaker 1: got people sent to the mountains for a long long time.
25:18
Speaker 1: But Kim jong Nam knew that if anybody had the
25:20
Speaker 1: privilege to speak out, it was him, the son of
25:24
Speaker 1: the dear Leader. His stepmother might try to ruin him,
25:28
Speaker 1: maybe even his little brother, but his father never Still,
25:35
Speaker 1: Kim jong Nam had to tread carefully. He weighed his words.
25:40
Speaker 1: He reiterated that he did not speak for the government.
25:44
Speaker 1: Whenever he mentioned his father, he spoke reverently. But Kim
25:50
Speaker 1: jong Nam's fear seemed most palpable. Whenever he mentioned his
25:54
Speaker 1: little brother, Comey could tell that Chong Nam was measuring
25:59
Speaker 1: his words. The North Korean people, who only have access
26:04
Speaker 1: to such propaganda in their life are not likely to
26:07
Speaker 1: find out how things really are. But it would really
26:10
Speaker 1: hurt me if the entire world comes to look at
26:13
Speaker 1: my brother as a villain. I hope that my brother
26:15
Speaker 1: will become a leader who is renowned among the people
26:18
Speaker 1: of the same race for his virtues. The journalists and
26:22
Speaker 1: the prince would exchange messages for twelve weeks, and in
26:27
Speaker 1: that time, Comey not only got Kim Jong Nam to
26:31
Speaker 1: open up, he got him to agree to a face
26:35
Speaker 1: to face on the record interview. On January, Comey arrived
26:43
Speaker 1: in Macau to meet the eldest son of North Korea's dictator.
26:48
Speaker 1: Comey arrived with his wife, hoping that traveling in tandem
26:52
Speaker 1: would help him blending with tourists, you know, look a
26:55
Speaker 1: little less suspicious. Waiting in a hotel lobby, Comey scanned
27:01
Speaker 1: the door, waiting for the prince to enter. Then a
27:05
Speaker 1: man wearing a black jacket walked in his face, obscured
27:10
Speaker 1: by sunglasses. It was Kim Jong Nam. The men sat down,
27:16
Speaker 1: made idle chit chat, and Comey turned on his trusty
27:20
Speaker 1: voice recorder. Then on the record, Kim jong Nam opened up.
27:28
Speaker 1: He repeated his opposition to a third generation dynasty, arguing
27:33
Speaker 1: again that until recently his father had been opposed to
27:36
Speaker 1: the idea as well. He again blamed the power elite
27:40
Speaker 1: for North Korea's problems. He even blasted his father's recent
27:45
Speaker 1: attempt at currency reform, calling it a failure. He advocated
27:50
Speaker 1: for change and name dropped his reformist uncle. I think
27:55
Speaker 1: the country's trapped in the dilemma. While it is obvious
27:58
Speaker 1: that his economy will collapse, that does not carry out reform.
28:02
Speaker 1: Reform could also trigger a collapse of the regime. I
28:05
Speaker 1: would expect time will pass away as the country remains
28:08
Speaker 1: in the state of affairs. From what I have heard
28:11
Speaker 1: on the Mr Changsung text, leadership, North Korea seriously considered
28:16
Speaker 1: introducing Chinese style reform and liberalization. At the end of
28:21
Speaker 1: the conversation, Comey asked permission to put everything the two
28:25
Speaker 1: had talked about in an article. Kim Jong Nam approved,
28:30
Speaker 1: Comy published it right away. For North Korean's it's risky
28:54
Speaker 1: to say or publish anything remotely critical about their country,
29:00
Speaker 1: especially if you've abandoned the regime. Nobody would know that
29:05
Speaker 1: better than Kim jong Nam's own family. You probably recall
29:10
Speaker 1: that two of his cousins and his aunt all published
29:14
Speaker 1: tell All memoirs. One of them would be shot dead,
29:19
Speaker 1: the others remained in hiding to this day, and Kim
29:24
Speaker 1: jong Nam clearly already had enemies in the regime long
29:28
Speaker 1: before he began talking to Yojigomi. In two thousand four,
29:33
Speaker 1: Kim jong Nam had been visiting Vienna, Austria. There, security
29:37
Speaker 1: officials purportedly received a tip about a plot to kill him.
29:43
Speaker 1: According to a source quote, the attempt was made by
29:48
Speaker 1: anti Kim groups in North Korea. Others, however, suggest that
29:53
Speaker 1: it could have come from the first family itself. Whoever
29:57
Speaker 1: it was, the plan was miss seriously thwarted. Then, in
30:03
Speaker 1: April of two thousand nine, a secret police unit stormed
30:07
Speaker 1: into the Pyongyang villa that Kim jong Nam used when
30:10
Speaker 1: visiting North Korea. It's where the firstborn son like to
30:14
Speaker 1: party and entertain, and when the cops showed up, everyone
30:19
Speaker 1: in the building was taken away, presumably to the mountains,
30:26
Speaker 1: but Kim jong Nam wasn't there that day, Kim jong
30:32
Speaker 1: Nam was becoming paranoid. He began using an old Nokia
30:37
Speaker 1: phone that couldn't be tracked. He covered the cameras on
30:40
Speaker 1: his laptop with tape. According to the owner of a
30:43
Speaker 1: restaurant that Kim jong Nam often visited, the elder Prince
30:46
Speaker 1: must have carried a device that jam security cameras, because
30:50
Speaker 1: whenever he came to eat, the CCTV would malfunction. Rumors
30:55
Speaker 1: began swirling that by the late two thousands, the China
31:00
Speaker 1: government was offering Kim jong Nam his own security detail
31:04
Speaker 1: with twenty four hour protection and monitoring. It's this last
31:08
Speaker 1: measure that's prompted a slew of conspiracy theories. Did China
31:14
Speaker 1: consider Kim jong Nam as a potential leader? China's number
31:18
Speaker 1: one consideration when it comes to the Korean peninsula is stability.
31:23
Speaker 1: They do not want a catastrophic collapse of North Korea
31:28
Speaker 1: on its fragile northeastern border, so everything they do is
31:33
Speaker 1: with that in mind. There had been signs for many
31:36
Speaker 1: years that they had been cultivating Kim jong Nam and
31:39
Speaker 1: kind of keeping him in reserve in case they needed
31:41
Speaker 1: to install and China friendly new leader of North Korea.
31:48
Speaker 1: Why Kim jong Nam and not his uncle Chang Zong
31:52
Speaker 1: Tech the country's number two. Because he comes from the
31:56
Speaker 1: Kim family, he has that mythical pek Do blood coursing
32:00
Speaker 1: through his veins, so it's something that could be easily
32:03
Speaker 1: sold to the North Korean people. But nobody is certain
32:06
Speaker 1: if China was protecting Kim jong Nam because he was
32:09
Speaker 1: a fallback option. It's possible that his father was in
32:13
Speaker 1: fact paying for the security detail, but soon his father
32:19
Speaker 1: would be out of the picture, and that's when everything changed.
32:29
Speaker 1: After his interview with Kim jong Nam, Comey watched his
32:32
Speaker 1: email for some kind of acknowledgement from his subject. It
32:36
Speaker 1: had only been a few days since the article came out,
32:39
Speaker 1: but the silence of his inbox made him anxious. Had
32:43
Speaker 1: the flood of friendly messages stopped then good evening. The
32:49
Speaker 1: stories printed in the Tokyo Shimbun last month. In the
32:53
Speaker 1: second of this month may have aggravated North Korea. I
32:57
Speaker 1: received this sort of warning from them. Please hold off
33:01
Speaker 1: on publishing all other articles for the time being. I
33:04
Speaker 1: hope you understand. In another more ominous email, he followed up,
33:11
Speaker 1: I just have to be careful and patient. The exchanges
33:16
Speaker 1: would continue, but Kim jong nam sprawling tirades against the
33:21
Speaker 1: regime transformed into terse one or two sentence replies, so
33:27
Speaker 1: Comey changes tactics. The men found other things to talk about.
33:32
Speaker 1: When a tsunami struct Japan in eleven, destroying the Fukushimi
33:36
Speaker 1: Daichi Nuclear power plant, Kim jong Nam sent a message
33:40
Speaker 1: of sympathy. I'd like to express my deepest condolences to
33:44
Speaker 1: the disaster victims in your country. The middle aged men
33:47
Speaker 1: went on to complain to each other about gout and
33:50
Speaker 1: beer bloat. They talked about the risks of nuclear power plants,
33:54
Speaker 1: Fukushima still weighing heavily on their minds, with Chong Nam
33:58
Speaker 1: opining we must protect the planet's ecosystem. After a month
34:03
Speaker 1: of idle chit chat, the conversation swung back to North Korea,
34:09
Speaker 1: with Kim jong Nam opening up about his relationship with
34:12
Speaker 1: his father. The media paint my father is a fearful dictator.
34:17
Speaker 1: I feel quite bitter about this. Apart from the fact
34:20
Speaker 1: that he's the head of a nation. I only remember
34:22
Speaker 1: him as a very affectionate person, though he was sometimes strict.
34:27
Speaker 1: Week by week, Kim jong Nam became more of his
34:31
Speaker 1: old self again. It's unclear if the threats had ended,
34:35
Speaker 1: or if he called their bluff, or if he simply
34:38
Speaker 1: let his guard down. Regardless, he went on to express
34:43
Speaker 1: dangerous criticisms that would get most people thrown in a
34:47
Speaker 1: gulag or worse killed. He called himself a capitalistic young
34:54
Speaker 1: man and talked about how he had betrayed his father's expectations.
34:59
Speaker 1: He contemp played at a future where his brother remained
35:02
Speaker 1: just as stubborn as his father. If my brother is
35:06
Speaker 1: against the idea of reforms and liberalization, I would like
35:10
Speaker 1: to question his thoughts and plans for the future of
35:13
Speaker 1: North Korea. Comey kept the conversation moving, but he wasn't
35:19
Speaker 1: satisfied with emails. He wanted another face to face meeting,
35:24
Speaker 1: and after months of cajoling, he convinced Kim Jong Nam
35:28
Speaker 1: to agree to a second interview in Beijing, but this
35:34
Speaker 1: time would be different. Comey and Kim Jong Nam never
35:39
Speaker 1: set a time or date, so Comey arrived in China
35:44
Speaker 1: and patiently waited for directions from his subject. One day
35:48
Speaker 1: passed nothing, then another still nothing. Comey sent email after
35:56
Speaker 1: frantic email, but received no replies. Homey thought he was
36:02
Speaker 1: being stood up. By a North Korean prince. On the
36:06
Speaker 1: day before his return flight, A disappointed called me gave up.
36:12
Speaker 1: He decided to visit some friends and go out to dinner.
36:16
Speaker 1: He ate seafood and drank wine. He laughed and tried
36:20
Speaker 1: for a few hours to forget about the meeting and
36:24
Speaker 1: the big story he had just lost. And then at
36:29
Speaker 1: ten pm he looked at his phone. There were five
36:33
Speaker 1: missed calls, all from a Macau area code. Comey's heart raced.
36:40
Speaker 1: He called the number back but could barely hear. The
36:43
Speaker 1: noise was distorted. It sounded like there was a crowd
36:46
Speaker 1: in the background, but he could recognize the faint voice
36:49
Speaker 1: on the other line. It was Kim Jong Numb and
36:53
Speaker 1: he wanted to meet Comey jotted down the address. It
36:57
Speaker 1: was for a swanky Beijing hotel. He grabbed his coat
37:01
Speaker 1: and his bag, rushed out of the restaurant, and dove
37:03
Speaker 1: into a taxi. At one in the morning, he hurried
37:07
Speaker 1: into the hotel, entered an extravagant elevator, and pressed the
37:10
Speaker 1: button for the top floor. When he stepped off, he
37:16
Speaker 1: entered a world of luxury and opulence, A room with
37:19
Speaker 1: high ceilings, deep mahogany fixtures and gilded details, the kind
37:25
Speaker 1: of place where bartenders and tuxedos served fine liquors to
37:29
Speaker 1: elegantly dressed patrons who all spoke in hushed tones. At
37:34
Speaker 1: the corner of the bar amid all this wealth sat
37:38
Speaker 1: a man in a baseball cap. It was Kim jong Nam.
37:43
Speaker 1: Hell he made it after all come He doesn't recall
37:46
Speaker 1: how long the two talked. He never recorded what they said.
37:52
Speaker 1: The two men did not speak as journalists and subjects.
37:55
Speaker 1: They talked off the record, this time as friends into whiskey.
38:01
Speaker 1: According to Comey, Kim jong Nam ordered glass after glass
38:05
Speaker 1: of high end whiskey. Each time he pulled out a
38:09
Speaker 1: pocket full of a hundred yuan notes and paid the waiter.
38:13
Speaker 1: As the night will on, Kim jong Nam turned solemn.
38:19
Speaker 1: He cradled his glass and stared forlornly at the amber liquid.
38:24
Speaker 1: Do you think things will be different? Nothing will change,
38:32
Speaker 1: It's impossible to make change happen. He reached again into
38:37
Speaker 1: his pocket. Money spilled onto the floor. Kim jong Nam
38:42
Speaker 1: looked at it for a moment and let it sit.
38:45
Speaker 1: He never picked it up. For the next seven months,
38:53
Speaker 1: Kim jong Nam and Yoji called me kept emailing and
38:57
Speaker 1: in December of the dear leader Kim Jong il would
39:03
Speaker 1: die A few days later. Homie offered his condolences and
39:09
Speaker 1: asked if he could turn their emails into a book.
39:12
Speaker 1: He promised not to publish anything inflammatory, but Kim Jong
39:17
Speaker 1: Nam hesitated. We remain in mourning for a hundred days
39:21
Speaker 1: in North Korea. It will not be advantageous for me
39:24
Speaker 1: if any new information comes out during that period. Please
39:28
Speaker 1: understand the North Korean regime might attempt to inflict something
39:32
Speaker 1: to put me in harm's way. But even though he
39:36
Speaker 1: knew he was at risk, Kim Jong Nam couldn't resist
39:39
Speaker 1: getting something off his chest. As a matter of common sense,
39:44
Speaker 1: a power transferred to the third generation is utterly unacceptable.
39:50
Speaker 1: How can a young successor with only two years of
39:53
Speaker 1: grooming take over a system of absolute power that has
39:56
Speaker 1: sustained for the last thirty seven years. I suspect the
40:01
Speaker 1: power leads that have ruled the country will continue to
40:04
Speaker 1: be in control while upholding the young successor as a
40:07
Speaker 1: mere figurehead. I'm sure you'll be hearing a lot of
40:12
Speaker 1: fiction writing or rumors about me, as well as what
40:15
Speaker 1: may or may not happen to North Korea's future. I
40:19
Speaker 1: wish you and your family's good health, respectfully, Kim jong Nam.
40:27
Speaker 1: It's unclear if Comey would ever hear from Kim jong
40:30
Speaker 1: Nam again. All we know is that he did what
40:33
Speaker 1: any journalists would do. He published, and soon Kim jong
40:40
Speaker 1: Nam would be writing letters to his brother asking him
40:44
Speaker 1: to please spare his life. I'm the next Big Brother.
40:53
Speaker 1: The theories about what killed Kim jong Nam get complicated
40:57
Speaker 1: by money, technology, and the beloved relative who becomes a
41:03
Speaker 1: canary in the coal mine for the exiled prince. Big
41:14
Speaker 1: Brother is the production of School of Humans and I
41:17
Speaker 1: Heart Radio and hosted by me Even Lee. Lucas Riley
41:22
Speaker 1: is our writer, co director and associate producer. Amelia Brock
41:26
Speaker 1: is our senior producer, co director and editor. Executive producers
41:30
Speaker 1: are Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, L. C. Crowley, and Jason English.
41:35
Speaker 1: Our fact checker is Aaron Blakemore. Music composed by Jason
41:40
Speaker 1: Todd Shannon and Tune Waters. Original score mixed by Vick Stafford.
41:45
Speaker 1: The bar scene piano rendition of the Big Brother theme
41:48
Speaker 1: song was performed by Lucas Riley, Audio editing by Jesse
41:51
Speaker 1: nice Swanger, sound design and mixed by Harper W. Harris,
41:56
Speaker 1: Audio correction by Josh Fisher, Voice acting by Mark Chung,
42:01
Speaker 1: Sean mckeek, Mike Coscarelli, Katie Wong, Jason Todd Shannon, and
42:06
Speaker 1: Amelia Brock. Special thanks to Ryan Murdoch and Will Pearson.
42:11
Speaker 1: Sound licensed from the Associated Press. A special acknowledgement to
42:15
Speaker 1: the reporting of Yoji Komi and his book My Father
42:19
Speaker 1: Kim Jong Il and I, published by Pung Sunju. If
42:23
Speaker 1: you're enjoying the podcast, help us get the word out
42:26
Speaker 1: by leaving a rating in your favorite podcast app. Until
42:30
Speaker 1: next time, I'm even Lee School of Humans.