Latest / We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism / Ep. 99: Boys Are Not Alright

Transcript

Ep. 99: Boys Are Not Alright · We Are More: Sisters Talk Faith & Feminism

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: To the We Are More Pod cast. My name is Alyssa. And my name is Bree. We're two sisters passionate about all things faith and feminism. We believe that Jesus trusted, respected, and encouraged women to teach and preach his word.
• 0:26
  And apparently, that's controversial. Get comfy. Hello, world. Good day. We need to talk about Brianna's new Instagram personality.
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: I was literally just going to mention that.
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: I'm rebranding. Not the podcast, mind you, herself.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah. No. This came about just today.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah. In the car today.
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: In the car today. Alyssa and I were like, oh, we need to go to the local bakery. And while we're there, you know, get some treats and a coffee. And while we're walking out, I was like, this coffee's so cute. I should take a picture of it and put it on my Instagram.
• 1:02
  But then I realized, you look back through your Instagram and it's full of old, old crap because I've never like, I don't post on Instagram. If you go back, there's a little bit of stuff about the podcast. But mostly, it's from, like, 2016. Like, it's old stuff. So I'm rebranding.
• 1:23
  And what are
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: you rebranding to, Brianna? Only beverages.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking about changing my username to only beverages. Like, only fans, but only beverages.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Do the beverages have to be in sexy poses?
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: No. I don't think so. How do you make a beverage sexy? I'm sure
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: someone has done it. Condensation. But
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: I I literally went through and archived every single other post I've ever made. And I'm only moving forward taking pictures of beverages.
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It was an exciting time. She was like, oh, here, look, a picture of your daughter when she was 10 old, archived.
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: There was no survivors. No. And now I'm going through an unfollowing most of the people that I follow.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: Were you following, like, anyone exciting?
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: Mostly sea turtle pages.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: No. That sounds right.
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: And I'm leaving those.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Did you know that KFC's I don't know if it was their Instagram or their Facebook or what, but they only followed, like, eight people. And someone went and saw who they followed, and it was because, you know, they say they have, like, seven herbs and spices. There were seven guys named Herb and one person, like, named after a spice. It was very funny. Oh, it was one of
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: the Spice Girls. That's what it was.
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: It was Mel Mel B, I think it is. It was very funny. That's hilarious. That's the long game too. Like Mhmm.
• 2:59
  Because how long were they doing that before someone noticed? Yes. And that's the same for me. The same.
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: I could only follow beverages. LaCroix.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Coca Cola. Starbucks. I don't think coffee is just its own Instagram. I could be wrong. You could be dead wrong.
• 3:17
  I could be dead wrong. But it feels odd. But
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: I would have to unfollow all of the people that I personally know. True. True. But no survivors.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: No survivors. Could be worth it. Frankly, do you really wanna keep up with any of the people you actually know? No. Well, there you go.
• 3:38
  No survivors. So we've had an exciting and weird day. Yeah. Which is just our standard at this point.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Really no planning. You know, I just go with
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: what feels right in the moment. And what felt right was an entire coffee Instagram.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. Not just coffee. Beverages. Oh, so sorry. It could be anything.
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: But usually, it's going to be coffee. Yeah. 90% of the time.
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And not even bought beverages because I don't buy a coffee every day, which is crazy. It is crazy because I sure do. You do. I don't.
• 4:13
  I go to work and sometimes, like, most days, make a cup of coffee.
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: What are you doing, heathen?
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: I know. So maybe I'll just take it in sexy poses.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: At sea? There you go. At work. Sexy posed dental coffee.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: It doesn't have to be dental.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: It's at work. What am I gonna do? Put teeth in it? Maybe. You got some extras laying around.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: In my mouth? You probably have
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: a spare crown floating about that didn't fit in somebody's face.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I do. So
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: there you go. That's your hook. Why are teeth floating in this coffee?
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: What where have we gone? What's happened?
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: I don't know where
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: I am. That's it's only beverages, Alyssa. It's not beverages and teeth. It's only beverages.
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: Okay. But this could be so much more fun. No. Alright. Do our transition song, Brie.
• 5:13
  Actually, no. Go back. So before we get into our topic for the week, next week is our hundredth episode. We're so old. Old and truly spectacular.
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: No one would know our ages.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: No. We've reported many different things at this point.
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: We're just yeah. We've been yapping for a hundred hours.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: A hundred hours. We could chew off our own arm by now. No. That was a hundred and hundred and twenty eight? Twenty seven?
• 5:49
  Unknown.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: So we have a few more episodes to go before we get you off Before
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: we get you off arm. Anyway, so next week is our hundredth episode. And we actually have not a 100% decided what it's gonna be about yet. 100%. Because I feel like I want it to be something really significant, and my brain is empty.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: What if, hear me out, we just each say a 100 words and then give up? And it could be anything. Like, I sometimes will write down just words that spark my interest. Like, episiotomy. Sorry, dad.
• 6:26
  Or Bangladesh.
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: That's one of them, Yeah. Just like words
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: that are interesting. Well, just a 100 interesting words.
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: If that is a podcast that you'd like to hear, please don't let it be.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: But if it is It could be abstract art. You can take from it what you will. Is it feminism?
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: Not if you're saying episiotomy in Bangladesh. Pebble. You're so strange. Anyway, so on our Instagram and our TikTok, I have posted posts, videos that you can go comment on and let us know what you would like to hear about next week that is meaningful and deep and also maybe ridiculous because that's our brand. And help us know what to record on because,
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: you
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: know, we just don't know.
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Again, we just go with what feels right in the moment.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So planning ahead is not usually what works great for us. But here we are regardless. Okay. Now you can transition song.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: Oh, sake.
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: So this week, for reals, we're talking about the male loneliness epidemic, which I feel like is just a catchphrase at this point. I'm not really sure that it's, like,
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: a thing. It is, I suppose, what people think is a thing.
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. Did you like that sentence? That was a great sentence.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: I suppose it might be something that is similar to however, I think it's
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: so so silly. It's an interesting I it's definitely like a social media promoted thing. And there is some evidence behind men being lonely.
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: But if you go on social media, the idea behind, like, the male loneliness epidemic is that it's women's fault.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: That men are lonely, and it's because feminism destroyed femininity and destroyed, like, the trad wife. Mhmm. And women don't wanna get married anymore or have kids anymore. And therefore, men are lonely, so it's women's fault. Because of
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: these gosh darn feminist feminists. I saw a post the other day that was like a a cartoon. Mhmm. Like a political cartoon. And it was like, this is what feminists want.
• 8:47
  And it's a woman reclining on the couch and watching TV, and the man is huddled around an oven making food and babies hanging off of him. Mhmm. And someone responded, and they're like, are you not understanding this is not what feminists want, but you're saying this is
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: what we're doing to women? Well, I I saw the same post, and they were like, so you're finally admitting Mhmm. That the thing men are most afraid of is being treated the same way they treat women. Yep. And that is why there's a male loneliness opportunity.
• 9:23
  So just some super quick stats. There is something to be said about men in at least today's American society being lonely. About one in five men report having no close friends at all, which is a dramatic increase from, like, the 1990s. Men are also four times more likely to die by suicide in The United States than women, which is also significant. And young men are increasingly reporting social isolation and fewer overall friendships.
• 9:55
  So there is something to be said about men being lonely. But the question isn't just are they lonely? It's why are they lonely?
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: And also, the solution isn't women. Mhmm. The solution is therapy. You know? Men go get some help.
• 10:16
  Figuring out why or what is it about you personally. Let's do some self improvement. What can you do to make yourself not feel lonely? And it doesn't have to rely on another person. Right.
• 10:29
  And I think women are really great at that. Not all women, just generally, were good at figuring out what makes us happy Mhmm. Apart from men. Right. And maybe that's reading or a hobby in general or spending time with our female friends.
• 10:45
  Maybe men need to do that too.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: Well, think it shows a big difference in how we raise women versus how we raise men. Because women are raised kind of to be social, to build that social circle, to be I don't like necessarily that we raise women to be, like, nurturing and whatever. But it does give us kind of an edge when it comes to relationships because we know how to connect with someone. We know how to help someone when they need it. And hopefully, she then knows how to help us when we need it too.
• 11:17
  Mhmm. And yet with men, we have taught our boys as we're raising them that empathy is feminine. And that femininity in general is weakness. Mhmm. And so they don't want that.
• 11:31
  They don't wanna be empathetic. They don't wanna be kind. They don't wanna be quote, unquote soft because we've taught them that that's what women do. I have some truly horrifying quotes that I I have too many of them. It was so easy to find these, so just bear with me.
• 11:50
  I have the first one is from Doug Wilson, and I'm I've got these kind of to frame how we teach men. These are all from pastors, like major influential pastors.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: We've talked about Doug before Mhmm. And how truly awful he is.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: Doug is a self proclaimed Christian nationalist. He actually just recently got up in front of Mhmm.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: With Pete Hegseth because he's Pete Hegseth's pastor. Correct.
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: Yep. So Doug, this is a quote from him. He says, a man penetrates, conquers, colonizes plants. A woman receives, surrenders, accepts. We've said this quote before on the podcast.
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: Go back and listen to it where we just absolutely rag on him. But he's the guy who said, women are the people that people come out of, I believe. Believe you're right.
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: And that's all they're good for Mhmm. Is for producing.
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: But not only what he's saying about women here, but let's look at what he's saying about men. Men conquer. Men colonize. It's all these, like, power type words. And when it comes to power, it's very lonely if you think I'm the only one who's supposed to be in charge.
• 13:06
  I'm in competition with every other man to be the most dominant, to be the strongest, whatever, I can't really be friends with them because I can't show them I'm vulnerable in any way. Of course, that's gonna make you feel isolated and alone. Yeah. That's a terrible view of any kind of human. I have another quote.
• 13:26
  There's there's, like, six in this particular category. I might not read them all. But one from John Piper. He says, at the heart of mature masculinity is a sense of benevolent responsibility to lead. Now that's a slightly more politically correct one.
• 13:41
  This is from his book, Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, which you can read it if you want, but it's awful. Boo. There's actually a response book to it. You know something's gone wrong when someone writes an entire book to respond to your book, and it's called recovering from biblical manhood and womanhood, which I think was funny. But I think this is a more politically correct way of saying exactly what Doug just
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: said. Mhmm.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Oh, a benevolent responsibility to lead. Kindly take away all your wife's rights.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Like, we're the gentlest soul, stripper of everything that makes her who she is. Mhmm.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: And frankly, that even creates loneliness within a marriage. Mhmm. So even if you find a partner, which less and less men are finding partners right now
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: But even if you do, you're still gonna be lonely because you have to be at the top. She has to be subservient, and there's no way you have a real relationship.
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: Well, that was a big part that I saw on social media about the male loneliness epidemic is it's even happening within marriages. Mhmm. Because most of the time, women not most of the time, I don't know the percentage, but a lot of women would not identify their partner as their absolute best friend. You know, they have other friends. They have other circles.
• 15:02
  They have other hobbies and activities. Whereas most men would say that their partner is their best friend. Right. And if you're not getting that response from your person, if that's the only person you have to talk to is someone that you feel like you dominate over, there is loneliness there because you don't have respect for that person. Right.
• 15:23
  So you feel like you can't share
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: actual burdens with that person. It's just it's not a really true relationship. Mhmm. I think as Christians, we were raised this way. Because I remember hearing your husband has to be your best friend.
• 15:39
  Mhmm. Your husband has to be your best friend. And I'm not saying you shouldn't be friends with your partner. Don't
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: get me wrong.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: Like, you absolutely should. But it is okay to have best friendships outside of your partner. And I think it's I'm sure we've talked about this before. But from, like, a marriage perspective, when the Christian world tells you that's your best friend, get rid of everybody else. Everybody else is secondary.
• 16:07
  All of their needs are secondary to that person, to your partner. That really damages your other relationships. It makes other people feel less than, and it's not necessary. Well, also from a single perspective,
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: you're right. You grow up thinking like, I need to go find my best friend. Mhmm. When you could open your eyes and see that there's people all around you being your friend, being your champion, and also that idea of your life doesn't start until you find that person. So you feel like there's no one to rely on until I find my my spouse.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: Right. I think women have a little bit of a loophole within this space, and that's why you're seeing a male loneliness epidemic and not a female loneliness epidemic. Mhmm. Because women are raised to be caring and to worry about others and to connect with others, And men aren't. So when this system does fall apart because it's going to fall apart, the women still have a backup.
• 17:13
  The men don't really have a backup. And that's sad. Like, it's not just, oh, screw men. It's it's sad. It is sad that men are raised this way because they lose out on deep, meaningful relationships.
• 17:25
  Jane Fonda has
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: it's not necessarily a quote. It was like a sound bite that was really popular on TikTok. I guess it is a quote. Jane Fonda says, women sit facing each other eye to eye and say, I'm in trouble. I need you.
• 17:40
  Can you help me? We're not afraid of being vulnerable. And then she speaks on men. She says, you guys sit side by side and watch sports or cars or women. I don't even know what I would do without women friends.
• 17:52
  I mean, I have my friends, therefore I am.
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: I love that. Actually, there is a quote from John Eldridge from Wild at Heart. He's also a pastor. And he says, men don't talk face to face. They talk shoulder to shoulder.
• 18:06
  Mhmm. But he's saying that in a positive light. Mhmm. They're saying the same thing, and they're seeing it totally differently. Totally differently.
• 18:14
  And I think that's because John probably has only had those types of relationships, shoulder to shoulder. And he's saying it like, oh, we're strong together. But are you if you can't look the person in the eye?
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: Well, because there's always this, like, imbalance. They're trying to see who can be the better leader, who's the strongest, just get them out on the table and measure them, for heaven's sakes. You're welcome, parents. Whereas there's not always that pressure with women. Mm-mm.
• 18:44
  I don't have to worry about
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: you being better than me because I really don't care.
• 18:48
  Speaker 2: I care about you as a person.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: Therefore, we look at each other in the eye. And I love that. I love that Jane Fonda says that. And you can see that in her relationships with, you know, she's from the show Grace and Frankie. Mhmm.
• 19:00
  And her and the girl who plays Frankie, they are truly best friends. They really They've been
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: friends forever. Yeah. I want these types of relationships for everyone. I want deep relationships for everyone because, you know, we've said this before, but patriarchy hurts everybody. Mhmm.
• 19:16
  Men stand on this pedestal and they're like, look at me. I won. But you've lost. Mhmm. You might have power.
• 19:23
  You might actually have power because obviously you have privilege. But at the end of the day, you have lost something. You have lost these meaningful deep relationships that you could have with friends, that you can call somebody up and say in the middle of the night, I need you. Do you have people like that? And if we're not raising our sons to value that, then that's a problem.
• 19:49
  There's a rising concern at a study in 2023. The US surgeon general released a report calling loneliness and social isolation a national epidemic.
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: And they say it's worse than, like, smoking 15 cigarettes a day. Loneliness can lead to heart disease, dementia, depression, and earlier death. Well, I
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: think that's really interesting because men have a much higher rate of heart disease than women. Men die earlier than women. Mhmm. So that does track with what we're saying. Those things all kind of follow with men.
• 20:24
  And I think you have to lead this thought through your whole life. Not only are these relationships important throughout your youth, your young adulthood, your adulthood, but let's talk about as you get older and you lose your partner. Mhmm. What happens if I've seen women lose their partner, and I've seen men lose their partner. And from my personal experience, I don't have the stats on it or anything.
• 20:53
  Could probably look them up. But the women that I've seen lose their partners, it's not that they're not hurting, but they survive. They go out with their friends. They go to a book club. You know, they, like, they don't have to create new relationships because they had them before.
• 21:15
  Yeah. And they have that support system. Whereas the men that I've seen lose their partner fade. They don't
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: always just die off, but they just fade. I think it's really dangerous too in these very traditional marriages because women are very much the homemakers. Mhmm. Right? They keep everything alive in the home.
• 21:39
  And when you get to that age where everybody's retired, the men aren't going to work every day. They're staying at home. But then their partner dies. They don't know how to do the laundry. They don't know how to cook or clean for themselves.
• 21:54
  They don't have those friendships. So they struggle. And I heard of a couple that this happened to. The wife died, and he goes, I didn't know what I had. Mhmm.
• 22:06
  I guess he was calling up his children all the time just to figure out how to heat up a pizza in the
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: oven or how to do his laundry. Like, this is a real problem. Yeah. I think as a quick side note too, men should never expect this of their wives, but women don't do this. Don't enable.
• 22:24
  Don't infantilize your partner. Expect them to know how to turn on the oven and do their laundry and turn on the microwave. Like, they these are normal skills that adults have. We talk about this, or we have talked about this before, but weaponized incompetence. Mhmm.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: Where it's just, oh, I don't know how to do that. I I don't know how to do the the laundry. Okay. Awesome. Mhmm.
• 22:48
  Come here.
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: Let me
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: show you. You just turn it to normal wash and hit start. Yep. Like, it's okay.
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: Another quote from our dear friend, John Eldridge. He says, deep in his heart, every man longs for a battle to fight, an adventure to live, and a beauty to rescue. Don't you just love it? Doesn't it make you feel special when all you are is a beauty to rescue? Not a partner, not someone they love, just a beauty to rescue.
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: Well, because so often that's what women are. Mhmm. And the eyes of these types of men, they they don't respect you, so they don't wanna get to know you any further than what's on the surface. Mhmm.
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: There is I follow a guy called SpeechProf on TikTok. And one of the things that he responded to was a podcast of a man, and he's legitimately like a psychologist. And the man was like, you know, I married my wife because she's beautiful and she's wonderful and blah blah blah. And he's like, it wasn't until about ten years into our marriage that I realized, oh, she has a lot of thoughts going on. She has a lot of a lot of things going on in her head.
• 24:00
  Prior to that, at least according to what he's saying on the podcast, he legitimately never put thought into the fact that his wife was a thinking, breathing creature, was a person. He just saw her for what she could give him, which was beauty, which I hate to tell you all, fades.
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: the work in the home.
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Have you seen guys I saw this the other day on Instagram or TikTok where they were saying that Sabrina Carpenter was catfishing people. Because on the cover of her album, she's all made up. Mhmm. And then there's a picture of her without makeup on. Mhmm.
• 24:40
  And they're like, she's out here catfishing people. And the comments were, do men not know that women aren't born with glitter on their face? That's not her natural face. Like, she has makeup on.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: Uh-huh.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: But she's a person. Right. It it doesn't matter. This is ridiculous. She's not out here catfishing people.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Well, you also if you're gonna say, oh, she's catfishing people, then you think she's putting that makeup on for your enjoyment. Exactly. I love makeup, guys. I have a whole thing full of makeup in my room. But I put it on because I enjoy it.
• 25:17
  I enjoy the artistry of it. I enjoy the way that it makes me look. I don't put it on every day. I put it on when I feel like it. Mhmm.
• 25:23
  It's not catfishing because I'm doing it for myself. It's not catfishing at all because I'm a human person.
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: And also that's super damaging to women too because like your own natural face, that your face that you're born into this world with, people think is less valuable
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: And less attractive than the face that you put on with makeup. And that is damaging to a woman. Mhmm. To say, oh, my my natural face. Or, like, when people see you without makeup on, they're like, you look tired today.
• 25:53
  Awesome. No. This is actually just my face.
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Sunburned. Yeah. No. My skin is that color pink.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: Thank you.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: So another question to ask is why are women choosing not to get into relationships? Now, the first question obviously is why aren't men figuring this crap out on their own? But it then follows. Okay. Why has the system fallen apart?
• 26:20
  Why aren't women getting married? Why aren't they having kids? Well, I
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: think for a long time, marriage was the expectation because there was so much suppression for women. Mhmm. Right? We couldn't go out and get our own jobs. We couldn't get credit cards.
• 26:33
  We couldn't buy our own houses. The wage gap was so significant. Still is. Yeah. But now women have kind of hit a point where they can make their own money.
• 26:45
  Mhmm. They can find their own joy. They don't need a man to survive. Mhmm. So then they choose a man if they add value to their life.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: And if you don't, see a bye.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. Yeah. So some of the stats on this are, I think, kind of alarming. So this is from Gen Z. So we're not talking, you know, baby boomers or anything like that.
• 27:13
  These are Gen Z stats. 31 to 33% of Gen Z men say that wives should obey husbands. 33% say that husbands should have the final say. 24% say women should not appear too independent. And 21%, interestingly, say women shouldn't initiate sex.
• 27:34
  What? Overall, Gen Z men are twice as likely as baby boomers to say that wives should obey their husbands.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: And I wonder why this is.
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: Twice as likely as baby boomers, folks. That's wild because we think of the older generations as like, oh, traditional or whatever. And I don't like that word, but that's the the idea. Right? Mhmm.
• 27:57
  But you've got these kids that are being I shouldn't say kids. They're well into their twenties. I'm very old Mhmm. That are being influenced by hyper conservative podcasts and Twitter and the president and all of these spaces, telling them, you will be powerful.
• 28:20
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 28:21
  Speaker 1: You will have everything you've ever wanted if you expect this of your wife. And women are over here like, sounds bad. Well, there's a movement called the 4B movement, which started in South Korea in the, like, late two thousand tens.
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: And the b stands for something in Korean that means no. And then there's four no's. So it's no marriage with men, no childbirth, no dating men, and no sex with men.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: So lesbians do really well in this context.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: Right. It started because they wanted equality. Mhmm. And it's kind of shifted over into The US now, especially after Donald Trump taking office and just the the radical disrespect towards women.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: A lot of women have started to be like, you know what? You wanna try to control my body? Fine. You don't get access to my body. Well,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: that's the thing is it's wild to me that men have put all of these restrictions on women. And they're like, okay. If you get married, here's the 25,000,000,000 rules you have to follow. And then they're surprised when women are like, okay. Then I just won't get married.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: Right. There I saw a TikTok the other day that was like, they're gonna start doing there's there's talk, which anything's on the table these days. But for single women to condition them into wanting to be in a relationship, Like camps for single people.
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: What? Mhmm.
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: And they were like, this is gonna wildly backfire on them. Everybody's gonna end up with a wife. Everybody's gonna realize how awesome having a wife is. We're gonna have a ton of lesbians.
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: I have heard so much online. You know that being gay is not a choice because if it were, every woman would be with women. Yeah.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: No one would be with them.
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: And I hate I don't mean to man bash. Sometimes I do. In this particular moment, I don't. Because there are some wonderful men out in the world. Yes.
• 30:30
  You know, thirty one to thirty three percent of Gen Zers apparently suck. But most of them that means that most of them are not this way. It's just the loud ones and the ones that are getting the most attention that we're seeing this from. And so what that does, because they are the loudest, it makes even more women say, no, thank you. Pass.
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Especially coming from like, I'm a single woman. And there is a there's an issue. When I go on the dating apps and I'm scrolling through different people to date with, my my standards are really high. If you say one off thing to me, see you bye.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: You're toast. And it's actually interesting to hear how people talk to Brie about that because people from our mom's generation will say, oh, we'll just give him one more chance.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: It's not that bad. He didn't mean it like that, etcetera, etcetera. And it's really just interesting to see the difference in that generation because that generation still, even though they were a little more independent, marriage was still the expectation. Mhmm. Whereas now for millennial and younger women, you are seeing a lot more where women are like, no.
• 31:45
  You really have to bring something good to the table.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah. And if you're willing to say these things or act this way this early on, I cannot picture this getting any better. You showed me disrespect on date number one.
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. Goodbye. Well, one of the reasons that a lot of men will say men are lonely is that women have expectations that are too
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: high. Yeah.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: I hear that all the time. Well, what do you expect? Do you expect men to just be perfect? Well, I expect you not to be sexist. Mhmm.
• 32:16
  I expect you to respect me as a human being. I don't expect you to never make a mistake. But if there's not a base level of respect there, that's
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: a bad sign. Or they're so concerned about women being gold diggers. Right? Oh, she's just after me for my money. She's just after me for my money.
• 32:33
  But then they want that traditional submissive woman that stays at home. Mhmm. Right? Yep. What do you want?
• 32:40
  Pick a side.
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: Well, I think you see this glamorized version of all of this on social media. You see the trad wife content. We've talked about that many times on the podcast. And you see these women in, I don't know, fancy dresses and whatever. And they're baking a pie in the kitchen.
• 32:57
  They're talking about how they love to stay home with their children and blah blah blah blah. And I don't wanna diminish that if that is your choice. But what I wanna say is that it's not that glamorous. I have been a stay at home mom at different points in my life, and I'll tell you, it's not glamorous at all. And it also isn't that easy.
• 33:18
  Mhmm. It's not that easy for anybody because the man is lonely, even within his marriage. And the woman is unappreciated and overworked. It's bad for everybody if that's the kind of marriage you're choosing.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: If that's the kind of marriage you're choosing, you have to think about it like a business. Right? In that idea of marriage, the man is the boss. Right? And when you're at work, you have your boss and your employee, and you can't be friends.
• 33:47
  Mhmm. I'm not friends with my boss because there's a difference there. Mhmm. And in those marriages, you can't be best friends with your employer.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. Or with your employee. Well, it's transactional.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: You give me this. I give you this. And, again, I'm not saying this about stay at home moms in particular. I'm saying this about this traditional hierarchical marriage. But you can't have love within a transactional relationship.
• 34:14
  Right. It doesn't it's not there. You can pretend it's there if you want to, but it's not. Mhmm. Some more stats.
• 34:21
  I love my stats. Are you ready? So 37 of Republican women now support a traditional gender role, up from 23% previously. Shock. Now mind you, that says 37% of Republican women, but it's an interesting stat that doesn't seem supported.
• 34:41
  And I would love to know how that question was asked and how it was answered. And I don't have that info for you. But oftentimes, women in these types of marriages, women in these types of churches are told what their opinions are. They're told what to say. And right now, we have a world where women are being even more suppressed.
• 35:06
  And they're being told that God wants them that way,
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: which is so dangerous. They're being told, if you believe that you are a Christ follower, you have to believe things this way. Otherwise, you're antichrist. Mhmm. And so, of course, you wanna go along with your faith.
• 35:25
  Mhmm.
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: Or you're scared of a god that will smite you. Mhmm. For both men and women, I think, too. Because men are told that if you're not the leader of your household, then you are sinning. Actually, Mark Driscoll has a quote, our favorite evil man.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: Mark Driscoll.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: He says passive men don't lead. And when they don't, Satan steps in. So he's quite literally saying, if you are a passive man and you don't lead your wife, then Satan is leading your marriage. That's what he's saying. Have you seen those TikTok accounts that are like,
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: man up? They're so funny to me.
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: Oh, the sarcastic ones?
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: If you get hit by a bus, don't bleed. Don't say, ow. Just get up and go back to work. Be a man. Or there was one that I saw that was dental related that I thought was really funny.
• 36:21
  They were like, if your tooth is hurting, God gave you other teeth to chew with. Chew on the other side. Be a man.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: But what's sad is that it it's funny, but on some level, it's true. And you can see that in like we said, suicide rates for men are significantly higher in The United States. And a big part of that is because women are significantly more likely to go to therapy.
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. Well, like we talked about before, anything tied to
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: women Mhmm.
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: Is considered, for this group of people, less than.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: Mhmm.
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: It's considered frivolous. It's considered stupid. So therapy Mhmm. Or self care or kindness and empathy Mhmm. All of that is considered weak.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: And if you are, like Mark Driscoll said, if you
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: are anything tied to that, Satan's laden you.
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: Mhmm. And that's a pretty big threat for a religious person. Mhmm. Particularly for people who were raised in religion, at least the way that Brie and I were raised in the traditional Baptist background. God was less loving and more be scared of him.
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: And when you're living in that context, there's a lot of do this and God will smite you. Mhmm. You wanna go to hell? Here's your ticket. Don't lead your life, and hell is there for you.
• 37:54
  And that's scary. It is scary. If you truly believe this is the only way, not just for me, but for me and my spouse, for me and my children, to make our way to heaven, that's scary. That's a big threat. And going back to men being less emotionally healthy, here's a quote from James Dobson.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: Our Oh, we're just surrounded by so many great men today.
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: I know. We're hitting all of the best. In his book, Bringing Up Boys, which, again, read it if you want to, but prepare for torture. He said boys should not be encouraged to express every emotion. That's because they've rebranded anger as not an emotion.
• 38:41
  Ninety two percent of all violent crimes are committed by men. Maybe because they're freaking angry, and they don't know how else to express their emotions. Even from a woman's perspective, anger really has been rebranded because I am not someone who responds with tears. When I'm emotional, I don't really cry. That's just not my thing.
• 39:03
  I get angry. And when I was younger, I used to always say I wasn't very emotional. Because anger has been rebranded as not an emotion. And as I got older, I realized, no, I'm actually extremely emotional. It's just that's how I express my emotion, and I need to learn how to do it in a healthier way.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: Right. People have learned to handle their sadness Mhmm.
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: Or too much joy. Yes. Too much joy is really a big problem. I just watched Inside
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: Out too. I'm thinking about all the emotions. Ennui. Yeah. But like, how do you handle your anger?
• 39:38
  And apparently, men aren't taught that violence isn't an appropriate reaction to anger. Anger's okay to have. Sure. Anger is an emotion that everybody has.
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: It's that little red dude in your brain. But
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: not all people who are angry commit crimes. Right.
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: Primarily women. Yeah. I'll go eat a pint of ice cream instead. But that's what happens when you're taught only one emotion is appropriate. Only anger is appropriate for boys
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: Because it's manly. Yes.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: It's manly. And so everything gets funneled into anger. Your sadness, your joy, your ennui, your embarrassment. Who else is on there? You're disgust.
• 40:22
  Everything gets funneled through that anger. And actually, the dad on Inside Out, they show the primary emotions for each person that they jump to, and the daughter's primary emotion is joy. The mom's primary emotion is sadness. Mhmm. And the dad's primary emotion is anger.
• 40:39
  And I think that's super telling because men are taught that's how you respond to everything.
• 40:44
  Speaker 2: Mhmm. And women are taught, you're right, to suppress that anger. Mhmm. And eventually, you're going to explode. Yeah.
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: And you
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: see that in a lot of people where you push it down, push it down, push it down. And rather than having good healthy conversations about like, hey, this made me angry and here's why, you just freaking explode. Mhmm.
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Don't suppress any emotions. Yeah. Like, talk him out. And this is a little bit off topic too, but I was talking to our mom the other day because she was having some anxiety problems.
• 41:16
  Mother, I'm sorry. And I said something about don't try and push it down. I've been in therapy for a long time. Okay? I was like, don't try and push it down because it'll just come back up worse.
• 41:27
  It's like if you try and hold in when your body wants to puke or poop or poop.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: It just comes back worse.
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: Great visual. Hope you enjoyed that. Related to our mother. Sorry, mom. And she was like, why though?
• 41:46
  It because it is it does seem easier to push it down in that moment. But you have to feel all your emotions in a healthy and good way. And sometimes it's uncomfortable. Mhmm.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: And sometimes it hurts. But you're right. You gotta just deal with them.
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: And you come out of it stronger. And that's why I think men need to look at themselves and say, what's going on? Because there is an epidemic of men dealing with depression and not talking about it, of men dealing with anxiety and not talking about it, of men not going to the doctor for heaven's sake.
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: Right. But even like how mom reached out to us and said, I'm dealing with these problems. Men, do you have a person that you could reach out to and say, hey, I'm dealing with these things, and I don't know how to handle it right now. And maybe that person doesn't have all the answers, but at least it's someone that you can talk to. Mhmm.
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. It's interesting to watch too. So my husband, we always call him a connector. He is the biggest, like, connecting person I've ever known. It's obnoxious.
• 42:51
  He makes friendships and he holds on to people. And I have questioned recently now he's very different than me. I'm not social. Okay? But if you compared him to a normal woman, who is not me, a social woman, would it be notably different?
• 43:10
  Or is the way that he connects just not like other men? Is it just uncommon for men to be that way? It's just something I've been wondering lately. Is it notable just because he's a man? And I think maybe it is.
• 43:25
  Maybe it's because most men are not that way.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: And then I think of the friendships that he does have and how much it's added to his life. And what is life without those deep friendships? For heaven's sake.
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: Side note, that is an argument why people try to get people in church all the time. Because they're like, oh, your faith needs to have community, community, community. Mhmm. And it is nice to be surrounded by people who have the same beliefs and faith as you. But that doesn't mean that you can't find that community, and we've talked about this before.
• 43:59
  That you can't find this community apart from that organized church building.
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: That actually leads great into my next point. So when it comes to church and building community, this is also really lacking for men.
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. How did I know
• 44:18
  Speaker 1: you were gonna talk about that? Well, it's on the screen.
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: I wasn't looking at the screen. I was looking deep
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: into your eyes. Into my eyes? Mhmm. Maybe your peripheral saw it and your subconscious was like, oh, I have a brilliant idea. Maybe, but I
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: think more so it's that our minds are the same.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: That could be it. But men's ministries now, I haven't been in any men's ministries, but from what I'm told. Why?
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: Well, we could mool on it, and we could infiltrate.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: We don't even like women's ministry. Just for science. Men's ministries often tend to focus on leadership, theology. They'll talk about sports and grilling and manly things. But it's rarely those deep, emotional, here's what I'm going through Mhmm.
• 45:03
  Kind of moments. And like I said, I haven't been in specific men's ministries, but I have been in small groups with men. And that is really distinct. When you're sharing as a group and you listen to the women tell you about their lives, and then you listen to the men be like, yeah. Work was hard today.
• 45:22
  And that's about it. Whereas women's ministries have their prayer groups. They're small groups. They're doing bible studies focused on things that are really going on in their lives, in their worlds. Or community.
• 45:36
  They're doing events together. They're going to movies together. They're starting to live in community. They share their phone numbers. And if you need something, they're gonna start a meal train and do for you.
• 45:48
  Whereas, how often have you seen a man start a meal train? A bunch of never? Never. Fully never. This is a personal life story.
• 45:58
  When we were kids, our mom had a surgery, and they did a meal train for us from, I think, from our church. And somebody brought over I just have this really distinct memory of she brought over cupcakes.
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: Mhmm.
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: And they had, like, mountains of
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: frosting on them. I don't know why.
• 46:14
  Speaker 1: That is just really intense memory.
• 46:17
  Speaker 2: And I think sugar eyes. Yeah. They were intense. And also baked spaghetti, and it was so good.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: I do remember the baked spaghetti. But think about that. Like, think about what that means. That small act that a woman did for another woman that she probably didn't know all that well, we, her children, remember twenty five years later. That's the impact that close relationships have.
• 46:44
  Not just on you, on your kids, on your friends, on your community. It has an impact. Men, you can have that too. This is not exclusively a woman thing. And you are losing out if you don't have and actively create that.
• 47:06
  Now you have to actively create it. And because, unfortunately, you're starting off 10 steps behind because you weren't taught to create these deep relationships, it's gonna be harder.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: You have to actively open your eyes for opportunities for that
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: and be ready and willing when they do come up. Mhmm.
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's harder to make friends when you're an adult. It's a lot easier when you have common interests. But a bunch of us from work went out to a movie a little while ago. And all of us came back and we're like, we had such a good time. Mhmm.
• 47:36
  Just being out together and having our little event and our little play date together.
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: And you need that. You need people in life. You just do. And it makes me actively sad. I know it sounds like we're hating on men over and over and over, but it makes me actively sad for them that they don't get that because I know what that adds to my life.
• 48:02
  And my social circle is pretty small, but I know what that small little circle adds to my life. I put some of this info in chat GPT, and what it said about women's versus men's ministry is funny. It says, women's ministry is basically therapy with snacks,
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: which is so true.
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: Very true. Good snacks too. Men's ministry is steak and a lecture.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: I was in a small group with a bunch of divorced women. What? You've never talked about that before in a while. And that's truly what it was. We were supposed to be following along with this book, and we absolutely never did.
• 48:41
  Never did. We'd bring wine, and we'd sit down, and we'd talk about just life and work. And these are people that I could sit and cry with for a portion of my life. It didn't last forever. But even that short amount of time, it's just good to have people that you can sit and you can be like, things are not going well.
• 48:59
  Mhmm. Can you just be there for me? Mhmm. And I want that for men too, because obviously, it's healthy. Mhmm.
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: It's healthy in so, so many ways. Like eating arugula. So as a whole, currently, in The United States, the percentage of high school age girls expecting to get married at some point in their life in the nineteen nineties was eighty three percent. That's a lot. Currently, sixty one percent.
• 49:29
  That means that even in high school, they're like, nah. I'm good. I can do this on my own. Or I can do this with my circle. I can do this with my people.
• 49:40
  And frankly, I don't actually think that's a bad thing. Like, that number is a bad thing. Not because, oh, no one should get married, but because they're looking at life and saying, I can do this on my own. And if somebody adds to my life, great. If they don't, great.
• 49:54
  You should walk into marriage with that attitude too. That's not just a single person's attitude. You should walk in saying, I am a whole person, all on my own. Men, you should also have this. You should also be able to say, I can do life on my own.
• 50:11
  If a woman adds to my life, then great. If she doesn't, great. But I can do life on my own. I can do life with my circle.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Just even the language that circles
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: marriage. We need
• 50:26
  Speaker 2: to change our language. You're not looking for someone to complete you. You're complete. You're not waiting for your life to start. Your life has started.
• 50:33
  Mhmm. When you you popped out of that womb.
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: You're ready to go. Maybe not quite ready to go. Like, you're still a baby. Someone has to feed you. It'd be rough to just get out and go.
• 50:46
  And frankly, that sounds really scary. Some babies are born with full sets of teeth.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah. But they're not born running. I saw a newborn thirteen pound baby the other day. I didn't physically see them. I saw it online.
• 50:57
  It's because
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: I showed it to you.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. That baby was massive. Baby wasn't. Baby was mostly ready to go.
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: You wanna say episiotomy again? Yeah. Episiotomy for sure. Full circle. Oh, they cut a full circle out
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: of her. I'll tell you that.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, dad. Oh, alright. So men, create better relationships.
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: Create better relationships. Find hobbies. Go to therapy. Get healthy. Find a doctor.
• 51:30
  Drink water. Touch grass. Stay inside. Read a book. Go in
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: your car. Cry. That was so many pieces of advice.
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: This is what the girlies are doing. And I know that you're scared of cooties. But I promise you, we're figuring things out. Okay? We're living longer.
• 51:48
  We're less violent. And this is what you want.
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: It's what I want. I'm not sure it's what they want.
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: You want it. Because God's telling you to want it.
• 51:56
  Speaker 1: God is. It's all throughout the Bible. Jesus was not a dominant alpha male.
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: Well, for heaven's sakes, he found 12 best friends.
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: He did find 12. Actually Actually, more. But like, 12 notable best friends. Who else do you know that
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: has that many best friends? I don't.
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: I know we're at the end, and you're just barely trucking along with us now. But about how Jesus was not that way. In John 11, Jesus wept. When he was in the Garden Of Gethsemane, he asked his friends to stay with him. Mhmm.
• 52:30
  Instead of saying, no, I'm a man. I can't be emotional around you. He said, stay with me and keep watch with me and be here with me. He also said in John 15, he said, I no longer call you servants. I call you friends.
• 52:43
  Because he did create that big important circle of people. And it wasn't just men. Mary Magdalene was, like, his favorite. So we were on we were on good track today. Proud of us.
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Great minds. Think alike. We only had to
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: use our transition song, like, twice. That's right.
• 52:59
  Speaker 2: I could use it again if you
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: wanted it. Alright. Transition us out. Bingo. Bingo.
• 53:06
  Speaker 2: I don't know. So our hundredth episode is coming up
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: next week. Next week. We have nothing planned. Nope. So help us out.
• 53:15
  Go on TikTok. On Instagram, you can find us at we.r.morefour. Or if you just search the hashtag we are more, you can find us that way too.
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: Or you could send us carrier pigeon, smoke signals, fat signals. You could call us on the phone if you can figure out what our phone numbers are. Please don't. You can send us physical mail.
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: Don't do that either.
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: If you can find out what the address is. Nope. You can find me
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: at my job. Oh, good. We're encouraging stalkers now. Listen. If they have good ideas,
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: they have good ideas.
• 53:43
  Speaker 1: The carrier pigeon man. They would still have to know where we're at.
• 53:47
  Speaker 2: I don't like that. Okay. We'll talk
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: to you next week. Don't find us.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: Love you. Bye.