Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / JUSTICE FOR CAMILLIA: ILLEGAL MIGRANT SUSPECT SET FREE, CHOKES MOM-OF-5 DEAD

Transcript

JUSTICE FOR CAMILLIA: ILLEGAL MIGRANT SUSPECT SET FREE, CHOKES MOM-OF-5 DEAD · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
0:07
Speaker 2: Camellia Williams is a browd and loving Georgia mother of five,
0:10
Speaker 2: and things take a dark turn when she reports to
0:13
Speaker 2: family a weirdo following her around.
0:18
Speaker 1: Why was an illegal migrant set free free to walk
0:24
Speaker 1: amongst us then to become States suspect number one? And
0:29
Speaker 1: the brutal choking death of a mom of five leaving
0:34
Speaker 1: one of her favorite stores. First of all, listen to this.
0:38
Speaker 3: Cobb County, Georgia police and EMTs respond to a nine
0:42
Speaker 3: to one one call with reports of an unconscious person
0:45
Speaker 3: just before eight thirty am. What they find is a
0:48
Speaker 3: woman's body in a Camellia bush, her face partially covered
0:51
Speaker 3: by her disheveled sweater. Police says she's been dead for
0:55
Speaker 3: several hours and it appears there was a struggle. The
0:58
Speaker 3: woman is identified as Camellia Williams, a mother of five.
1:01
Speaker 3: Camillia's family in Louisiana say she wouldn't hurt a fly
1:05
Speaker 3: and could hold a conversation with anyone.
1:07
Speaker 1: Justice Tonight for Camellia, joining me and All Star panel
1:11
Speaker 1: to makes sense of what we know right now, but
1:13
Speaker 1: straight out to Crime Stories. Reporter Dave Mac joining us
1:16
Speaker 1: at the same day. First of all, explain to the
1:19
Speaker 1: viewers where you are right now.
1:21
Speaker 4: Right now, we are in Cobb County, Georgia, just outside
1:24
Speaker 4: of Atlanta, on pat Mel Road, which is a fairly
1:29
Speaker 4: active road, a lot of homes, and as you can
1:31
Speaker 4: see directly behind me right here, Nancy, the body of
1:35
Speaker 4: Camelia Williams was found behind that house in a wooded area.
1:39
Speaker 4: That's where we're located right this minute.
1:41
Speaker 1: You know what really strikes me, Dave Mac, is that
1:44
Speaker 1: people that have never had any their lives have not
1:47
Speaker 1: been touched by violent crime, and God bless them. I
1:50
Speaker 1: don't want their lives touched by violent crime. They perceive
1:54
Speaker 1: that murder, rape, all sorts of violent crime occurs to
2:00
Speaker 1: somebody else, somewhere else, nowhere near them, and they're safe.
2:05
Speaker 1: And I get it. I'd like to think that too,
2:07
Speaker 1: But I know differently because look at where you are.
2:10
Speaker 1: That is a beautiful suburb, a tree lined neighborhood where
2:14
Speaker 1: you think nothing could go wrong. But it did go wrong,
2:18
Speaker 1: Dave Mac.
2:19
Speaker 4: Horribly wrong, Nancy. Just to give you an idea, I
2:22
Speaker 4: actually reached out to one of the neighbors here as
2:23
Speaker 4: I was setting things up and talked to him for
2:25
Speaker 4: a minute, and he was able to tell me exactly
2:27
Speaker 4: what took place and where it happened. This is a
2:30
Speaker 4: community where they know one another. They can walk to
2:32
Speaker 4: the store from here. And in this particular Familia was saying,
2:37
Speaker 4: I've got somebody that's eyeballow me. You know, this is
2:40
Speaker 4: an area where you don't expect anything like that at all, Nancy,
2:44
Speaker 4: this is a place where we would all like to live.
2:46
Speaker 4: You realize, great school system, You're ten minutes from everything.
2:50
Speaker 4: It's a very convenient suburb, beautiful homes. It is just
2:53
Speaker 4: an amazing moment you realized nobody, and I mean this, Nancy,
2:58
Speaker 4: nobody's safe.
2:58
Speaker 5: You know.
3:00
Speaker 1: Looking at a lot of funny poses from Camellia and
3:04
Speaker 1: from what I've been told, what I have learned, she
3:08
Speaker 1: was the light of everybody's life. You know that person
3:11
Speaker 1: when they walk in the room, You want to talk
3:13
Speaker 1: to them, you want to be with them. Five children
3:17
Speaker 1: call her mom. Look at her posing in that pink hat,
3:23
Speaker 1: and I'm thinking about five children now without a mom
3:29
Speaker 1: joining me right now, her brother's speaking on her. Behalf
3:33
Speaker 1: Tony and are seeing Williams, Tony, are seeing Thank you
3:36
Speaker 1: for being with us, sirs, Tony, when did you learn
3:40
Speaker 1: that your sister had been killed?
3:43
Speaker 4: That day?
3:44
Speaker 6: About nine o'clock, ten o'clock that morning when my brother
3:48
Speaker 6: came up to me and told me.
3:49
Speaker 1: When you first learned, Tony that Camelia was dead, did
3:54
Speaker 1: you have any idea that she had been murdered? I mean,
3:58
Speaker 1: did you think, oh, she was in a car accident,
4:03
Speaker 1: she had a heart attack.
4:04
Speaker 6: Just yeah, that kind of crossed my mind. Not murder,
4:08
Speaker 6: but she might have had a brain and a risin
4:14
Speaker 6: a heart attack or not natural.
4:19
Speaker 1: You know. Joining me, Cheryl McCollum, Founder Director cole Case
4:22
Speaker 1: Research Institute, host of a Hitting You podcast, Zone seven, Cheryl,
4:28
Speaker 1: I was just showing I don't know if you can
4:30
Speaker 1: see your monitor, but I was just showing a kind
4:34
Speaker 1: of a memorial, a makeshift memorial to Camellia. There it is,
4:40
Speaker 1: and it just breaks my heart because this is what
4:44
Speaker 1: is left of her five children. Cheryl, you have two.
4:50
Speaker 1: I have too, and I remember a few times I've
4:53
Speaker 1: had to go under the knife. And the last thing
4:55
Speaker 1: I think is God helped me get through this to
4:58
Speaker 1: raise the twins. Don't leave them without a mother. We've
5:03
Speaker 1: got five children. This woman has given birth five times
5:09
Speaker 1: and is raising these children. And you know you hear
5:14
Speaker 1: nothing about her case, nothing nothing. I don't get it
5:18
Speaker 1: when you think all that's left is a makeshift memorial
5:21
Speaker 1: of some pictures and some candles. They've got the rest
5:24
Speaker 1: of their lives, Cheryl, to live with life without Mommy.
5:28
Speaker 1: Their sentenced to life without their mother.
5:31
Speaker 7: You are exactly right, Nancy, And the ripple effect of
5:35
Speaker 7: this horrific crime is not only their life, but you're
5:41
Speaker 7: here in her brothers, her family, her friends, her neighbors,
5:45
Speaker 7: her loved ones that reach far beyond Georgia. This is
5:49
Speaker 7: something that every one of them is going to have
5:53
Speaker 7: to live with.
5:53
Speaker 1: Guys, we are bringing in. I don't even call it
5:57
Speaker 1: a story, because it's real. It's not. A mother of
6:01
Speaker 1: five leaving her favorite store, one of her favorite stores,
6:05
Speaker 1: and she's been worried because some guy she thinks has
6:08
Speaker 1: been following her, and lo and behold, her worst nightmare
6:14
Speaker 1: comes true. Joining me in addition to mister Tony Williams,
6:19
Speaker 1: this is Camillia's brother. Her other brother are scene Williams.
6:23
Speaker 1: Mister Williams, thank you for being with us. When did
6:26
Speaker 1: you learn that Camellia was dead?
6:29
Speaker 8: Good morning morning when they found her body in the.
6:33
Speaker 1: Bush, just saying it like that, found her body in
6:37
Speaker 1: the bushes. Darryl Cohen joining me, former felony prosecutor in
6:43
Speaker 1: the same district Attorney's office where I practiced for a decade,
6:46
Speaker 1: now defense attorney. You can find him at Cohen Cooper
6:51
Speaker 1: Estephan Allen. Darryl, thank you for being with us. You
6:55
Speaker 1: and I prosecuted and investigated. I mean, neither one of
6:59
Speaker 1: us ever went in front of a jury before we
7:01
Speaker 1: investigated the case, ourselves, going to the crime scene, speaking
7:04
Speaker 1: to all the witnesses, going to the crime lab, the
7:06
Speaker 1: morg you name it, Darryl Cohen. That's an added layer
7:10
Speaker 1: in my mind of brutality to murder a mother of
7:15
Speaker 1: five and then leave her body, just leave it in
7:20
Speaker 1: the bushes. You remember how Julie Love. I remember the
7:24
Speaker 1: Julie Love murder case. She went missing while jogging and
7:30
Speaker 1: was missing for the longest time, and then when the
7:33
Speaker 1: killer's girlfriend was living in fear, she finally coughed up
7:38
Speaker 1: Julie Love's body. What was left of it was near
7:42
Speaker 1: a trash jump, as I recall, way out in the
7:45
Speaker 1: outskirts of Fulton County, the added indignity of leaving the
7:51
Speaker 1: body out in the bushes for her children to grow
7:55
Speaker 1: up thinking Mommy was left dead in the bushes. I mean,
8:01
Speaker 1: I know that's not probative, Daryl Cohen, but I guarantee
8:04
Speaker 1: you it will mean something to a jury.
8:06
Speaker 5: Nancy, who cares whether it's probative or not. What I
8:09
Speaker 5: care about, and the jury cares about, is what happened.
8:13
Speaker 5: It may or may not be quote evidence, but it
8:16
Speaker 5: certainly isn't not evidence. In other words, once heard, once seen,
8:21
Speaker 5: once felt, it goes to the jury. This is unbelievable. Yes,
8:26
Speaker 5: I remember Julie Love, and I remember who they thought
8:29
Speaker 5: killed her, and they were so wrong, and later they
8:31
Speaker 5: found the right murderer. And here it's one of the
8:35
Speaker 5: worst examples of someone who doesn't care. I am going
8:40
Speaker 5: to do what I want if I have to kill,
8:42
Speaker 5: so what, And I'll just leave her here because I'm
8:46
Speaker 5: out of here.
8:47
Speaker 1: It's horrible, you know, our seeing Williams joining us sisters,
8:51
Speaker 1: community's brother along with Tony and I'm going to get
8:53
Speaker 1: into the facts as we know them right now. And
8:56
Speaker 1: remember this illegal migrant is in a until proving guilty
9:01
Speaker 1: at a court of law our scene. You stated that you
9:05
Speaker 1: learned about your sister's death. Did you immediately presume that
9:10
Speaker 1: it must be an accident or natural causes as Tony did,
9:14
Speaker 1: or I mean, murder wouldn't have even crossed my mind
9:17
Speaker 1: to start with.
9:17
Speaker 9: I thought it was natur becauses. I really did.
9:21
Speaker 8: But then when I found out that she was murdered,
9:25
Speaker 8: that just hit me.
9:27
Speaker 10: More different than.
9:30
Speaker 9: An accidental death. That was one hundred percent murder. He's doctor.
9:37
Speaker 8: He waited for her to be by herself and did.
9:39
Speaker 2: What he did.
9:40
Speaker 1: You were hearing Tony and Arsine Williams speaking on behalf
9:44
Speaker 1: of their sister. They came from a large family. Camille
9:47
Speaker 1: had five children that she was helping raise, giving it
9:52
Speaker 1: her all, an incredibly devoted mother. That's all ended, according
9:57
Speaker 1: to police, thanks to an illegal immigrant that had been
10:00
Speaker 1: set free to walk amongst us and in murder a
10:05
Speaker 1: mother of five. Listen, just why she would have whatever
10:12
Speaker 1: you wanted out of her purse. She would have given
10:13
Speaker 1: it to you. Why, That's my question. I had a
10:18
Speaker 1: little bit of mixed emotions. I don't know whether to
10:21
Speaker 1: be angry, sayd her, I'm very confused. You are hearing
10:25
Speaker 1: from one of Camellia's daughter's angry, sad, confused. Whatever she
10:32
Speaker 1: they wanted out of her purse, she would have given
10:34
Speaker 1: it to them. And you are hearing from one of
10:37
Speaker 1: her daughters, from our friends at Atlanta News. First, I
10:40
Speaker 1: want to circle back to how her body was found.
10:44
Speaker 1: I find this very interesting. Joining me at the scene
10:48
Speaker 1: is Dave Matt Crime Stories investigative reporter. Dave Mac confirmed
10:52
Speaker 1: this if it's correct that her face was partially covered
10:56
Speaker 1: by her own disheveled sweater. And I've got a lot
11:01
Speaker 1: of questions, but is that correct? That is correct, Nancy, Okay,
11:04
Speaker 1: that's telling me a lot right there, Dave Mac. Number one,
11:07
Speaker 1: we're told that nothing was stolen. We don't know what
11:10
Speaker 1: motive there may have been, but right there, if her
11:14
Speaker 1: sweater was covering her face, that means either her sweater
11:20
Speaker 1: was stripped off of her or it was pulled up over.
11:23
Speaker 4: Her head right exactly. And the whole point of putting
11:28
Speaker 4: her behind at the house in the bushes, trying to
11:32
Speaker 4: hide her body, But also it tells us a lot
11:34
Speaker 4: about what happened at the end. Is he's trying to
11:37
Speaker 4: get away, he's got her covered up, Is he's making
11:40
Speaker 4: sure he doesn't have to see her face and then
11:42
Speaker 4: nobody else.
11:42
Speaker 1: Can you know what, Dave mac I have accused you
11:45
Speaker 1: quite often of being an MD of the psychiatric variety
11:53
Speaker 1: because what you just said is right, okay, And I
11:57
Speaker 1: don't need an MD a medical degree, So sorry, uh,
12:00
Speaker 1: doctor Coin and doctor angel Arnold, I don't need an
12:03
Speaker 1: MD to tell me that a medical degree. Cheryl McCollum,
12:06
Speaker 1: how many times have we seen a murder victim's face covered? Again,
12:14
Speaker 1: I'm not a shrink. I don't know the answer to that,
12:16
Speaker 1: but I know it to be true, and tootally we
12:19
Speaker 1: see it over and over and over. I think Dave
12:21
Speaker 1: Mack is right.
12:22
Speaker 7: I think Day's going to something.
12:24
Speaker 4: I mean, we've all had training.
12:26
Speaker 7: At the police academy that says that they cover the face.
12:28
Speaker 7: It's because they don't want the person looking at them
12:31
Speaker 7: and they can't tolerate the look at the person while
12:33
Speaker 7: they're doing this horrible violet crime to them. Again, he
12:38
Speaker 7: went to the extent of taking her to another location
12:44
Speaker 7: and attempting to hide what he had done by hiding
12:47
Speaker 7: her body.
12:48
Speaker 1: Joining us again, are seeing Williams. This is Camilia's brother.
12:51
Speaker 1: You were saying something, mister Williams.
12:53
Speaker 8: Yes, how did he murder my sister and wanted to
12:59
Speaker 8: do it as quit as fast as possible. But when
13:02
Speaker 8: he stayed with.
13:04
Speaker 11: The body for several hours after the fact that he
13:07
Speaker 11: murdered her, how did he try to do it quick
13:11
Speaker 11: and possible and get away when he's staying.
13:14
Speaker 1: Hod On, you're telling me something new or saying I
13:17
Speaker 1: did not know that he stayed with her body for
13:22
Speaker 1: a period of time. Tell me what you've learned.
13:25
Speaker 8: Well, he stayed there for two or three hours after
13:28
Speaker 8: she was murdered. After he killed her, he stayed.
13:32
Speaker 9: With her body in those bushes and sexually assaulted her.
13:36
Speaker 1: Okay, that is new evidence right there, are saying, are
13:43
Speaker 1: you telling me that you believe your sister was sex
13:48
Speaker 1: assaulted after her death?
13:51
Speaker 6: Yes, we know that for a fact.
13:54
Speaker 1: How do you know that for a fact.
13:57
Speaker 9: Because my niece told me that he was with the
14:01
Speaker 9: body after. See, he killed her and stayed with the
14:07
Speaker 9: body for several hours after and sexually assaulted her and
14:14
Speaker 9: had the audacity to go back Wednesday and check and
14:19
Speaker 9: see if the body was still there. So my sister
14:22
Speaker 9: was killed Tuesday night.
14:24
Speaker 8: He went back Wendy to see if the body was.
14:27
Speaker 12: There and then Thursday morning at eight thirty is when
14:31
Speaker 12: they found her, because at nine fifteen one of my
14:36
Speaker 12: sisters called me and told me they found her dead
14:39
Speaker 12: in the bushes.
14:41
Speaker 2: A neighbor makes a troubling discovery in some nearby bushes
14:44
Speaker 2: only days after Camellia Williams raises alarm about a strange
14:49
Speaker 2: man following her.
14:52
Speaker 1: Joining us at Allstar pound him make sense of what
14:54
Speaker 1: were you're learning at? An illegal migrant is set free
15:00
Speaker 1: in our country, then he's detained, then he's set free
15:05
Speaker 1: only to go out and allegedly murder a mother of five.
15:11
Speaker 1: And I got to tell you, I have poured over
15:13
Speaker 1: her photos and she looks funny and sassy and full
15:19
Speaker 1: of life. She makes funny poses for the camera. She
15:23
Speaker 1: has a million pictures of her feeding her little babies.
15:29
Speaker 1: You know, a lot of moms wouldn't be caught on
15:32
Speaker 1: camera holding on their baby without their hair fixed and
15:35
Speaker 1: their face fixed. Not this mom. She was all about
15:39
Speaker 1: being a mom. Who is Camellia.
15:43
Speaker 2: Camellia Williams grows up in Louisiana, the youngest of thirteen siblings.
15:47
Speaker 2: Camellia is attached to the hip with her brother Lloyd,
15:50
Speaker 2: who says there is no one more kind or generous
15:52
Speaker 2: than Camelia. Camellia becomes a mother to five wonderful children.
15:56
Speaker 2: Williams strikes out on her own and moves to Maryetta, Georgia,
15:59
Speaker 2: just outside Metro Atlanta. Camelia is happily settled into the area,
16:03
Speaker 2: becoming close friends with neighbors.
16:06
Speaker 1: He was always smiling.
16:07
Speaker 7: Anywhere you seek, Familia to smile, whether it was with
16:10
Speaker 7: her smile or with her eyes.
16:12
Speaker 4: Her eyes lit up a room once walked in.
16:14
Speaker 1: That is Camellia's niece, Danielle. And that's when our friends
16:20
Speaker 1: at eleven Alive straight back out to Dave Mack joining
16:23
Speaker 1: us at the same Dave mac are police confirming what
16:27
Speaker 1: our seeing and Tony Williams have learned. Because they haven't
16:31
Speaker 1: released that yet.
16:32
Speaker 4: No, it has not been released yet, and I haven't
16:34
Speaker 4: had a chance to get it confirmed yet, Nancy. I
16:37
Speaker 4: believe that they know a lot more about the story
16:40
Speaker 4: than we do at this point. But the police, you
16:42
Speaker 4: know how this works, They have to hold back information
16:45
Speaker 4: from the public. Nancy. Sometimes it's because they still have
16:48
Speaker 4: to go to trial. They still have to work this
16:50
Speaker 4: case all the way through and information like Williams brothers
16:53
Speaker 4: are just sharing is powerful information that they will use
16:58
Speaker 4: and it indicates so many things about the possible suspect
17:01
Speaker 4: here as well as what happened with the victim. So yeah,
17:04
Speaker 4: they have not confirmed that directly to us yet, doesn't
17:07
Speaker 4: mean they didn't tell the Williams brothers a lot of
17:10
Speaker 4: information that we're not privy to you yet.
17:11
Speaker 1: To Tony and Arsine Williams, Camillia's brothers joining us speaking
17:15
Speaker 1: out on her behalf her children at this point having
17:21
Speaker 1: a really hard time even enunciating what has happened to
17:24
Speaker 1: their mother. Back to Ursceine and Toni Williams are seen
17:30
Speaker 1: you learned that your sister was followed by this guy
17:36
Speaker 1: when your sister left the store, She had been worried
17:40
Speaker 1: about being stalked by someone, but she didn't know the
17:43
Speaker 1: guy she had seen but didn't know who he was.
17:47
Speaker 1: When did you learn that your sister was murdered and
17:52
Speaker 1: then the perp stayed with her dead body and sex
17:58
Speaker 1: assaulted her dead body.
18:00
Speaker 9: Today they found her bottom of.
18:03
Speaker 1: My sister was found dead, Tony, When did you learn
18:06
Speaker 1: your sister had been sex assaulted by the killer after
18:10
Speaker 1: her death? When about him you know, to Daryl Cohen
18:17
Speaker 1: joining us, a veteran trial lawyer, former prosecutor, now defense attorney.
18:21
Speaker 1: When a jury hears that, they're going to do a
18:25
Speaker 1: backflip that after he allegedly yes, I know, he's innocent
18:31
Speaker 1: till proven guilsey, after he allegedly follows her as she
18:34
Speaker 1: leaves a store, he then drags her off to the bushes,
18:40
Speaker 1: murders her, and then sex assaults her. Darryl Cohen, there's
18:48
Speaker 1: a special hell waiting for this guy, a very very
18:53
Speaker 1: special hell, and he's going to have plenty of time
18:55
Speaker 1: to talk this over with Satan Nancy.
18:58
Speaker 5: He is the me and what all of us fear
19:02
Speaker 5: is the epitome of what bad people do. No not
19:06
Speaker 5: I said bad horrible people do. When a jury hears
19:10
Speaker 5: this testimony, they are going to be literally on the
19:13
Speaker 5: edge of their seat following every move of the witness
19:17
Speaker 5: who was testifying from the stand. It is not something
19:21
Speaker 5: they could ever forget. And I'm not talking about just
19:25
Speaker 5: a trial. I'm talking about for the entire life. But
19:29
Speaker 5: you know, I have three daughters. I tell them, always
19:33
Speaker 5: keep your head on a swivel, because it doesn't matter
19:37
Speaker 5: how old you are, where you are you point out
19:40
Speaker 5: what a wonderful community this is, what a wonderful neighborhood
19:43
Speaker 5: this is. It's people that commit crimes that you have
19:46
Speaker 5: to be aware of, not where you are, but.
19:49
Speaker 4: How you are.
19:59
Speaker 1: Crime stories. With Nancy Grace joining me right now, special
20:02
Speaker 1: guest doctor Thomas coinn the Chief Medical Examiner District to
20:06
Speaker 1: Medical Examiner's Office, State of Florida. He is an u pathologist,
20:09
Speaker 1: a toxicologist, a forensic pathologist, and more. Dottor Coin, thank
20:13
Speaker 1: you for being with us, doctor Coin. Is there a
20:16
Speaker 1: way medically for the medical examiner to prove not by video,
20:23
Speaker 1: not by a statement, not by a witness. Can we
20:27
Speaker 1: prove forensically that she was that Camellia was sex assaulted?
20:34
Speaker 1: Post mortem?
20:35
Speaker 13: Yes, you can differentiate amongst post mortem and anti mortem injury.
20:40
Speaker 13: And we can do so because our bodies when we're injured.
20:43
Speaker 13: I'm sure many of us have had a cut or
20:45
Speaker 13: a scratch. When you're alive, your body reacts to the injury,
20:49
Speaker 13: so that injury may lead and may become a little red,
20:53
Speaker 13: swollen warm. Those processes don't happen after death, and so
20:57
Speaker 13: we can look at the body itself, see the tissue,
21:00
Speaker 13: see if there's what we call vital reaction redness, is swelling,
21:04
Speaker 13: any changes of that nature. And then we can also
21:07
Speaker 13: take sections to look onto the microscope and see if
21:10
Speaker 13: whether or not there is any active bleeding into the tissue.
21:13
Speaker 13: So yes, we can differentiate from post mortem and anti
21:16
Speaker 13: mortem injuries.
21:16
Speaker 1: When you say, doctor coin that you can take sections
21:21
Speaker 1: and look at sections under a microscope to determine if
21:25
Speaker 1: there is any quote reaction, I'm taking that to me
21:28
Speaker 1: that you take human tissue such as from the vagina,
21:32
Speaker 1: from the anus, and you determine if there was any
21:35
Speaker 1: bleeding you were referring to a reaction. And I assume
21:40
Speaker 1: that you mean bruising or bleeding as being a reaction,
21:43
Speaker 1: because once your dad and your heart is no longer pumping,
21:46
Speaker 1: you don't bleed and you don't bruise.
21:48
Speaker 13: That's correct. So we'll look at the actual vagina, and
21:51
Speaker 13: we'll look at the anus, and we'll look at the
21:53
Speaker 13: mucoastal tissue to see if there are any injuries that
21:56
Speaker 13: we can see with our eyes first, So are there
21:58
Speaker 13: any abrasions or or braided tissue, bleeding, scratches of that nature,
22:03
Speaker 13: something that shows that there was mechanical trauma to that tissue,
22:07
Speaker 13: and then we can take a biopsy, take that actual
22:10
Speaker 13: tissue and have it made into a microscopic slide, and
22:13
Speaker 13: we can look under the microscope and we can see
22:15
Speaker 13: if whether or not there was actual bleeding into that tissue.
22:18
Speaker 1: Now, another question, not to Coin and out, I want
22:19
Speaker 1: to go too far into the bushes here, but what
22:23
Speaker 1: about the possibility that she was sex assaulted post mortem?
22:28
Speaker 1: Would there have to be reaction in other words, bleeding
22:31
Speaker 1: or bruising and if not, in other words, if a
22:35
Speaker 1: vagina or anus did not blaede or bruise, could you
22:38
Speaker 1: still tell whether the sex assault was post mortem.
22:41
Speaker 13: Yes, because you can actually see the mechanical changes to
22:45
Speaker 13: the tissue. So if you have mechanical trauma to a
22:48
Speaker 13: deceased person, you may have sloughing off of that surface
22:53
Speaker 13: tissue and you can actually see the tearing.
22:55
Speaker 1: Under the microscope.
22:56
Speaker 13: Or what you won't see is the vital reaction or
22:59
Speaker 13: the response of the body to the injury. So you'll
23:01
Speaker 13: see the mechanical changes to the tissue, but you won't
23:04
Speaker 13: see the reaction of the body to that mechanical change.
23:07
Speaker 1: Guys, the reason I am grilling Dr Thomas Coin about
23:10
Speaker 1: how we can tell exactly what happened and when it
23:13
Speaker 1: happened to our victim, Camellia, mother of five, in those
23:18
Speaker 1: bushes in this tree lined neighborhood. For Pete's sake, is
23:22
Speaker 1: because I want to prove beyond a reasonable doubt what
23:28
Speaker 1: exactly happened, when it happened, how it happened. But guess
23:31
Speaker 1: what I've got the icing on the cake. The icing
23:36
Speaker 1: on the cake for a prosecutor, I don't have just
23:39
Speaker 1: Dr Thomas Coin telling me that he can look at
23:42
Speaker 1: Camillia's body and determine what she sex assaulted after she
23:46
Speaker 1: was murdered. Guess what we've got vdo?
23:52
Speaker 14: Detectives with the Cobb County Police Department spend two days
23:55
Speaker 14: searching the neighborhood where Camellia's body was discovered. Investigators block
23:59
Speaker 14: off the show street while searching for evidence and knock
24:02
Speaker 14: on neighbors doors searching for witnesses and surveillance footage. A
24:05
Speaker 14: neighbor across the street from the home where Camelia was
24:08
Speaker 14: found turns over ring doorbell footage and police find the
24:11
Speaker 14: entire attack was caught on video. It shows Camellia closely
24:15
Speaker 14: followed by a man. When Williams turns to tell the
24:17
Speaker 14: man to leave her alone, he rushes her.
24:20
Speaker 2: A body is discovered in the bushes in Cobb County, Georgia,
24:23
Speaker 2: and police have a suspect in their sights, an undocumented
24:27
Speaker 2: migrant from Honduras.
24:29
Speaker 1: In addition to an all star panel to make sense
24:31
Speaker 1: of what we were learning about the murderer and sex
24:33
Speaker 1: assault of a mother of five by an illegal migrant
24:38
Speaker 1: who got into our country and then slipped through the
24:42
Speaker 1: fingers of the system, walked free, and then, according to police,
24:47
Speaker 1: murders a mother of five mining her own business, leaving
24:52
Speaker 1: the store. Joining me Dave Mack on the same crime stories,
24:56
Speaker 1: investigative reporter, Dave Mack, We're hearing about ring video. You know, doorcam.
25:05
Speaker 1: Where would that video be? And you have totally canvas
25:07
Speaker 1: the neighborhood. You've looked at everything. So is a neighbor's
25:12
Speaker 1: front door. I'm just taking it that had a bird's
25:15
Speaker 1: eye view of the bushes where her body was found.
25:18
Speaker 4: Well, not the bushes where her body was found, Nancy,
25:21
Speaker 4: but they've had a bird's eye view of everything that transpired,
25:24
Speaker 4: the interaction between the two. You know, one thing I
25:26
Speaker 4: failed to mention. This neighborhood has a sidewalk, Nancy, you
25:30
Speaker 4: know that means you've got a lot of residential walking.
25:33
Speaker 4: This is something that tells you I'm in a neighborhood
25:35
Speaker 4: where I can get on a walk around that has that.
25:37
Speaker 4: That's what's going on here. So you've got ring doorbell
25:40
Speaker 4: right here. As I mentioned earlier, it was right behind
25:42
Speaker 4: this house, right directly behind there, so they were able
25:45
Speaker 4: to pick up the ring doorbell was able to pick
25:47
Speaker 4: up right here where I'm standing right now. This is
25:50
Speaker 4: where she's walking when she gets rushed by the suspect.
25:54
Speaker 4: He then drags her over behind the house and in
25:58
Speaker 4: the woods. That's where he allegedly strangles and then smothers her,
26:03
Speaker 4: placing his knees with all of his weight on her neck.
26:07
Speaker 1: My stars, I'm just thinking about this, Mama five. What
26:12
Speaker 1: was going through her mind when she was fighting for
26:16
Speaker 1: her life and Dave Mac Let's take Dave Mac in full, please,
26:20
Speaker 1: So she's walking along the sidewalk where you're standing, Dave,
26:24
Speaker 1: he rushes her then, in broad down light for Pete's Satan,
26:29
Speaker 1: drags her across the street, through the bushes down to
26:34
Speaker 1: where he murdered her.
26:36
Speaker 4: That's what we're talking about. From the ring doorbell camera
26:39
Speaker 4: on one side of the street right here, as I'm
26:41
Speaker 4: showing you that's the house, and it's directly behind the house.
26:45
Speaker 4: You've got a clear line of sight. You got not lside,
26:48
Speaker 4: but a clear pathway to go from right here to
26:51
Speaker 4: behind the house. And by the way, once you're behind
26:54
Speaker 4: the house and in the woods, Nancy, you've got some
26:56
Speaker 4: privacy there. It's not wide open back over there. Wide
26:58
Speaker 4: open right here, not so much back there.
27:01
Speaker 1: Because I knew at the get go, Cheryl McCollum when
27:05
Speaker 1: we first learned Cheryl founded director of Coldcase Research Institute,
27:09
Speaker 1: forensic expert, star of a podcast, owned seven Cheryl, when
27:13
Speaker 1: I learned that her face was covered by her sweater,
27:16
Speaker 1: I knew her sweater was either removed from her body
27:18
Speaker 1: or pulled up. For what reason would you expose a
27:21
Speaker 1: lady's breasts other than a sex assault? Now the brothers
27:25
Speaker 1: are seeing Antoni are telling me she was sex assaulted
27:28
Speaker 1: post mortem after death, doctor Coin telling me that can
27:31
Speaker 1: be proved if the evidence is there. Cheryl, think about it.
27:37
Speaker 1: I mean, it's enough to make you stay home and
27:39
Speaker 1: hide under the bed. This lady leaving the store, minding
27:44
Speaker 1: her own business. What do you believe she was thinking
27:47
Speaker 1: about as she was being dragged literally off the sidewalk,
27:51
Speaker 1: across the street, through the bushes, through a yard, into
27:54
Speaker 1: a heavily wooded area. I mean, I want to just
27:59
Speaker 1: lot Michelle up and throw away the key. And this
28:02
Speaker 1: is after this guy comes to our country, our country
28:06
Speaker 1: to avail himself from all the blessings that we have.
28:10
Speaker 1: And that's fine, but he slips through the crickt Cheryl
28:14
Speaker 1: walking free, and he murders this mother of five. I mean,
28:20
Speaker 1: post wartem sex attack five children, broad daylight. Can it
28:25
Speaker 1: get any worse? Cheryl?
28:26
Speaker 4: Yes, Nancy. This person stalked her.
28:30
Speaker 7: He waited. Now, this is where you really need to
28:34
Speaker 7: focus on this crime. He didn't just see her and
28:37
Speaker 7: attack her. He had stalked her, and he waited. He
28:42
Speaker 7: waited until she was alone. I believe he had the
28:46
Speaker 7: secondary crime scene planned. He knew as soon as she
28:50
Speaker 7: was by her walked toward that area. He knew where
28:54
Speaker 7: he was going to take her already. This reminds me
28:57
Speaker 7: a lot of Lake and Raleigh. That person laid in wait,
29:01
Speaker 7: and he knew exactly where he was going to push
29:04
Speaker 7: that victim also into a wooded area where he would
29:07
Speaker 7: not be seen. This is what we call a salt target.
29:11
Speaker 7: So when you say it's in broad daylight, it was
29:14
Speaker 7: in broad daylight without a weapon, because he knew he
29:17
Speaker 7: didn't need one.
29:18
Speaker 1: Now Jerry's has been watching way too much TV and movies.
29:22
Speaker 1: Expect DNA. They even expect a video. Well, guess what
29:26
Speaker 1: we've got a video. Listen.
29:28
Speaker 3: The video shows the man wrapping Camelia in a choke
29:31
Speaker 3: hold and dragging her to bushes in front of a
29:33
Speaker 3: home on Patmel Road. When Camellia goes limp, the man
29:37
Speaker 3: then puts both knees on Camelia's neck and kneels there
29:40
Speaker 3: for several minutes, preventing Camelia from breathing. The young man
29:44
Speaker 3: then casually walks away from the scene.
29:46
Speaker 1: Casually walks away from the scene, walks away from the
29:52
Speaker 1: scene after putting both knees on her neck. But it
29:57
Speaker 1: doesn't end there. According to Camellia's brother, he then returns
30:02
Speaker 1: to sex assault her body. Two are seeing and Tony Williams,
30:09
Speaker 1: Camillia's brothers joining us. Her children must be just reeling
30:14
Speaker 1: and now they have to live with the thought that
30:17
Speaker 1: their mother was dragged across the street and into the
30:20
Speaker 1: bushes and murdered. When did you discover, Tony Williams, that
30:25
Speaker 1: there was actual video a part of the attack.
30:29
Speaker 8: Just ma'am, well, that's our scene talking.
30:33
Speaker 6: I knew about the video right almost a week ago.
30:39
Speaker 6: But you don't want to speculate until, like, for all
30:42
Speaker 6: the facts come out.
30:43
Speaker 1: Tony. I got a question for you. How are her
30:45
Speaker 1: children doing?
30:46
Speaker 6: They're doing okay, but they're doing for what respected they're
30:50
Speaker 6: going through right now. You know, you don't expect to
30:53
Speaker 6: bury your mom, your sister at heart age the bad roam.
31:00
Speaker 6: They just still think it's a bad dream. When you
31:03
Speaker 6: said something anty a little while ago that he slipped,
31:08
Speaker 6: he slipped through the cracks when he came in in
31:12
Speaker 6: twenty twenty one, he didn't slip through the cracks. The
31:16
Speaker 6: lastest the lastest administration gave him that opportunity to slip.
31:23
Speaker 8: Through the cracks.
31:24
Speaker 6: They gave him a cord date to go to court.
31:28
Speaker 6: He didn't show up.
31:29
Speaker 1: You know what, you are so right. Slipping through the
31:33
Speaker 1: cracks doesn't do it justice. Listen.
31:37
Speaker 14: Hector Segastume travels from Honduras to the US and tries
31:40
Speaker 14: to enter the country illegally. In March twenty twenty one,
31:43
Speaker 14: According to the Department of Homeland Security, Segastume is arrested
31:47
Speaker 14: by border patrol, but later released into the country and
31:49
Speaker 14: given notice to appear for an immigration hearing at a
31:52
Speaker 14: later date. More than two years later, Segastume does not
31:55
Speaker 14: show up for his July eleventh, twenty twenty three hearing,
31:58
Speaker 14: and a judge orders him removed from the US and
32:00
Speaker 14: deported to Honduras. Immigrations and Customs enforcements say they have
32:05
Speaker 14: placed a detainer on Sagastume twenty one, pending the results
32:08
Speaker 14: of his trial and sentencing.
32:17
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
32:19
Speaker 2: Our counting a.
32:23
Speaker 1: Hello, this is far all on? Hello, far counting all on?
32:35
Speaker 7: Can anyone hear me?
32:39
Speaker 2: Looks like what if we're going to the head or
32:40
Speaker 2: shirt bed removed bubber breasts.
32:43
Speaker 1: Not far from where the body of Camellia is found.
32:48
Speaker 1: A short ride away is where co Ed Lake and
32:54
Speaker 1: Riley was found sex assaulted and murdered. When we just
32:58
Speaker 1: played that nine on one call where you hear the
33:00
Speaker 1: Clark County nine to one one dispatch saying, hey, is
33:03
Speaker 1: anybody there? Anybody there? What she's hearing is Lake and
33:09
Speaker 1: Riley being murdered. Lacoln tries to call nine one one.
33:16
Speaker 1: This beautiful nursing student tries to call nine one one,
33:23
Speaker 1: and she can't speak. She is being murdered again by
33:31
Speaker 1: an illegal immigrant, a member of a violent gang that,
33:37
Speaker 1: like in the current case, escapes justice. Is actually apprehended
33:43
Speaker 1: in New York on another violation. An illegal immigrant apprehended
33:47
Speaker 1: in New York City on another violation and walks free
33:53
Speaker 1: only to murder Laken. Listen.
33:57
Speaker 15: Her encounter with him was long, her fight with him
34:02
Speaker 15: was fierce, and that is what the garment data shows.
34:08
Speaker 15: And once her heart stops at nine twenty eight a m.
34:12
Speaker 15: There's no more movement from her garment.
34:14
Speaker 16: A Bora was lying in wait and sexually assaulted and
34:20
Speaker 16: killed Lake and Riley. But what led them to the
34:23
Speaker 16: apartment is they found that evidence in the dumpster and
34:27
Speaker 16: they were getting tips from people about illegal immigrants living there.
34:33
Speaker 16: His brother working at the cafeteria of the donning An
34:37
Speaker 16: area of the University of Georgia, unknowingly being any illegal immigrants.
34:43
Speaker 1: From our friends at the News disc straight out to
34:47
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, joining us. She and I investigated and covered
34:52
Speaker 1: the murder of Lake and Riley. The similarities are overwhelming.
34:57
Speaker 1: The comparison between what happened to Laken and the hand
35:00
Speaker 1: of someone a criminal illegally in our country who evades
35:06
Speaker 1: justice and goes on to kill the similarities are overwhelming.
35:11
Speaker 7: Nancy, to me, when you start saying the similarities are overwhelming,
35:16
Speaker 7: some of them are just gut wrenching. And one of
35:18
Speaker 7: them is both cases have video. They have video of
35:23
Speaker 7: these victims. One is jogging, one is walking, minding their
35:28
Speaker 7: own business, going through their day like they would normally do,
35:32
Speaker 7: and this perpetrator comes up behind them and attacks them.
35:39
Speaker 7: They're just doing what they would do any other day, innocently, legally,
35:46
Speaker 7: and you have these folks that are in this country,
35:49
Speaker 7: number one, illegally. They should not have even been here,
35:52
Speaker 7: but now they're here illegally doing something illegal. In both cases,
35:58
Speaker 7: sexual assault was what they were asked for, and they
36:02
Speaker 7: simply decided it's not enough to attack her. I'm going
36:06
Speaker 7: to get rid of the witness.
36:07
Speaker 1: Joining us on the scene where Camellia's body was found
36:11
Speaker 1: dragged into the bushes at the hands. According to Belize
36:14
Speaker 1: and an illegal migrant, Dave Matt. You also joined us
36:19
Speaker 1: from the courthouse during the trial of lacln Riley's killer.
36:24
Speaker 4: What happened, you know, Nancy, One other, one other thing
36:28
Speaker 4: that ties these two together with jose Barrow. When they
36:30
Speaker 4: found these stuff in the in the trash dumpster, they
36:33
Speaker 4: were able to go back to his apartment where they
36:34
Speaker 4: found his illegal alien brother also living with him. Same
36:38
Speaker 4: thing happened here with Revas, Hector Revas. When the police
36:41
Speaker 4: went to the first address they had, he wasn't there.
36:43
Speaker 4: When they went to a second address they had, what
36:45
Speaker 4: did they have? Two other illegal aliens that they were
36:48
Speaker 4: supposed to have been deported already. So we've got both
36:51
Speaker 4: of those similarities where they're living with the illegal alien
36:55
Speaker 4: or immigrants and are gathered up together at the same time.
37:00
Speaker 4: Whinnie Bara actually was convicted. You know, the one thing
37:04
Speaker 4: we never saw from him was any sign just empathy
37:09
Speaker 4: or simp There's nothing. It was like this boyd area
37:12
Speaker 4: in him, and I'm thinking we're going to see the
37:14
Speaker 4: same thing with this alleged killer.
37:16
Speaker 17: When I woke up, it felt like it felt like
37:21
Speaker 17: a shadow. It also felt like like profound.
37:31
Speaker 1: Like sadness, emptiness, like I just knew that there was
37:36
Speaker 1: something that I think it's just mother's intuition.
37:40
Speaker 17: I just knew there was something that wasn't right, that
37:43
Speaker 17: there was something terribly wrong.
37:45
Speaker 1: But I didn't know what it was.
37:47
Speaker 10: On what should have been Rachel's thirty eighth birthday, and
37:52
Speaker 10: then a poetic coincidence or perhaps in Rachel's own divine assistance,
37:57
Speaker 10: are investigators uncovered a lead that led us to this day,
38:02
Speaker 10: and on this day, I'm here to tell you Rachel's
38:05
Speaker 10: murder is no longer a free man.
38:08
Speaker 1: Joining us on the scene where Camellia's body, a mother
38:11
Speaker 1: of five, was found, is Dave Mac. Dave Mack. You
38:16
Speaker 1: and I also investigated the Rachel Mooren murder and it
38:19
Speaker 1: took a really long time to track her killer. And
38:22
Speaker 1: what finally caught him as in this case in PS
38:26
Speaker 1: Rachel Moran, a mother of five. You were just hearing
38:29
Speaker 1: her mother speaking to me. Here on Crime Stories was
38:33
Speaker 1: video ring video where Moran's killer had committed another crime
38:40
Speaker 1: in la and they caught him leaving the home. He
38:45
Speaker 1: tagged a nine year old little girl and another woman
38:48
Speaker 1: in the home. Remember that, Remember that, Dave Mac.
38:52
Speaker 4: It was shocking, Nancy, because that was out in California.
38:56
Speaker 4: And as we were researching the Rachel Morin case, because
39:00
Speaker 4: you know, she's on a trail where she goes on
39:01
Speaker 4: a regular jog. I mean, this was like this most
39:04
Speaker 4: wholesome thing in the world. And this guy is an
39:06
Speaker 4: illegal alien who's already gonna hate his crime on southern California.
39:10
Speaker 4: Now he's totally across the nation under the radar and
39:14
Speaker 4: ends up where Rachel Morin is just out doing her
39:16
Speaker 4: daily jog. But he lays in wait he's able to
39:20
Speaker 4: pick his victim, and when he gets into the right
39:22
Speaker 4: where that's when he attacks and is another Pinus vicious
39:26
Speaker 4: file murder. And then we're left with, well, who could
39:29
Speaker 4: have done this and where is he? But there was
39:32
Speaker 4: the ring doorbell video and there is DNA. The same
39:35
Speaker 4: thing is true here. We've got that ring doorbell video
39:37
Speaker 4: and we actually are going to have enough evidence, Nancy,
39:40
Speaker 4: when everything is said and done, that we'll be able
39:42
Speaker 4: to tie these crimes to the alleged victim. The problem
39:45
Speaker 4: is that we don't seem to be stopping the problem
39:49
Speaker 4: at the border. When we stop these individuals, we stop them,
39:53
Speaker 4: we give them a court date. They don't show up
39:54
Speaker 4: for the court date. And then here we are with
39:56
Speaker 4: another murder.
39:57
Speaker 1: How many more mothers will have to live what Jos's
40:00
Speaker 1: mother has lived through? The men that lured Josson to
40:05
Speaker 1: under a bridge and sex assaulted her and murdered her
40:09
Speaker 1: two illegals originally from Venezuela. How will it end? When
40:16
Speaker 1: will it end? First of all, let's get justice for Camellia.
40:23
Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about the
40:26
Speaker 1: murder of this beautiful mom of five Camillia, please dial
40:33
Speaker 1: seven seven zero four nine three nine four five repeat
40:38
Speaker 1: seven seven zero four nine nine three nine four five.
40:42
Speaker 1: And now we remember an American hero, Corporal Scottie Cana
40:47
Speaker 1: zero Baton Rouge, PD, killed in a line of duty
40:51
Speaker 1: along with Sergeant David Pourier helicopter crash. Survived by wife
40:58
Speaker 1: Chelsea and son Ethan American hero Corporal Scottie canezero. Nancy
41:06
Speaker 1: Gray signing off goodbye friend,