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Is Serial Killer Stalking Portland Women? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 2: Is a serial killer stalking the women of Portland. So far,
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Speaker 2: the body count is up to six young women, all
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Speaker 2: very similar to each other, found just miles in and
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Speaker 2: around Portland, miles apart from each other. Are they connected?
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Speaker 2: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
0:36
Speaker 2: being with us here at Fox Nation and series XEM
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Speaker 2: one eleven. It all started here. Take a listen to
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Speaker 2: our friends at kp TV.
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Speaker 3: Melissa Smith says Kristen was last seen here near mil
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Speaker 3: Twell five. Take a look at this flyer they've posted
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Speaker 3: around parts of Portland. Melissa says she likes to wear
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Speaker 3: different wigs, so she may not look exactly like the
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Speaker 3: photo on this flyer, but she has a tattoo a
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Speaker 3: red butterfly on her right hand.
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Speaker 4: It is quite like a piece of you is missing.
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Speaker 5: Each day that passes and Melissa and Hayley Smith don't
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Speaker 5: hear from twenty two year old Kristin Smith, they get
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Speaker 5: more concerned she's in danger.
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Speaker 6: A main concern of ours now is sex trafficking. We
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Speaker 6: don't know, but with things we've been told or you know,
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Speaker 6: people that know her are saying it's a possibility. Because
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Speaker 6: this is not like her to just disappear.
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Speaker 7: Not like her at all. Listen.
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Speaker 5: Kristen's mom, Melissa, last talked to her on November nineteenth
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Speaker 5: and hasn't had contact with her since. She says, Kristen
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Speaker 5: always checks in with family and friends at least once
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Speaker 5: a week, if not more.
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Speaker 6: But then when I try to reach out to her again,
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Speaker 6: she didn't answer, and I thought that was strange. I
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Speaker 6: was like, well, she might be busy next day, same thing,
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Speaker 6: and then phone just went straight to voice smel And
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Speaker 6: that's where my this is very odd.
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Speaker 7: Something's not right.
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Speaker 2: Well, those feelings that intuition turn out to be true.
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Speaker 2: Take a listen to our friend Seeng Kim.
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Speaker 8: The Portland Police Bureau says they responded to reports of
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Speaker 8: human remains found in a wooded area near southeast Deerdorf
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Speaker 8: Road and Flavell Street on February nineteenth. Now authorities have
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Speaker 8: confirmed the remains belonged to Kristin.
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Speaker 7: I think of her every moment of every day.
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Speaker 8: And her family search has turned into one for answers
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Speaker 8: what happened.
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Speaker 6: I know she didn't just suddenly die out there.
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Speaker 7: Somebody did something.
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Speaker 8: But they say closure would be finding out what happened
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Speaker 8: to Kristin.
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Speaker 7: From the truth to come out. She deserves justice.
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Speaker 2: That disappearance, that death, that discovery of Kristin Smith h.
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Speaker 2: Twenty two body kicked off a series of discoveries of
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Speaker 2: young women, all all in the same area, all similar
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Speaker 2: in physical characteristics, all left out in the open, such
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Speaker 2: as in a rural, a forested area, one in a
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Speaker 2: gutter to be found. What do we know now, Let's
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Speaker 2: start at the beginning, and the beginning as we know
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Speaker 2: it right now is the disappearance of Kristin Smith. Joining
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Speaker 2: me in All Star panel, But first I want to
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Speaker 2: go to a net Newle with k Excel News and
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Speaker 2: host of speaking Freely with a Net Newle and net
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Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. Tell me about the
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Speaker 2: discovery of Kristin Smith's body.
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Speaker 9: Her body was found in a wooded area in southeast
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Speaker 9: Portland's Pleasant Valley neighborhood.
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Speaker 2: While the case of the murder of Kristin Smith, and
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Speaker 2: I find it really difficult to believe that anyone would
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Speaker 2: assume that she just goes off into the forest and dies.
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Speaker 7: I mean, this is clearly a homicide.
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Speaker 2: That said, while that case is still under investigation just
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Speaker 2: days later, yet another body is found.
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Speaker 7: Take a listen to our friends at crimeonline dot com.
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Speaker 10: With three children, she could always count on her family
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Speaker 10: to be there for In the first week of April,
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Speaker 10: when family members hadn't heard from her for a few days,
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Speaker 10: they started reaching out. After not getting her by phone,
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Speaker 10: family members started talking to one another, trying to retrace
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Speaker 10: their steps back to figure out who talked to her last.
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Speaker 10: And more importantly, when realizing it had been longer than
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Speaker 10: anybody realized, the entire family got worried about Joanna Speaks.
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Speaker 2: That's right, a mother of three, Johanna speaks the next person.
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Speaker 7: Take a listen now to our friends at Fox twelve.
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Speaker 11: Just before six pm, Richfield Police and Clark Cowlitzfire responded
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Speaker 11: to this abindon property and found Speaks dead near the barn.
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Speaker 11: A medical examination ruled it a murderer and Clark County
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Speaker 11: Sheriff's believe she was killed elsewhere then moved to this location.
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Speaker 11: But her killer has not been found and there is no.
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Speaker 4: That she would have gone down without a fight.
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Speaker 12: So whoever did do this, like we had injuries or
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Speaker 12: something like that personally as well from her fighting back.
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Speaker 11: How do you continue on?
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Speaker 10: I don't know.
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Speaker 4: Ye, nothing is off the table as to what we're
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Speaker 4: thinking could have happened.
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Speaker 11: The family of Johanna Speaks is left shock and speechless
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Speaker 11: after getting a phone call that their thirty two year
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Speaker 11: old sister from Oregon City was found near an abandoned
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Speaker 11: barn in Ridgefield, Washington.
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Speaker 2: Joining me right now, professor of forensics at Jacksonville State University,
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Speaker 2: author of Blood Beneath My Fate on Amazon, and star
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Speaker 2: of a hit series Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan.
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Speaker 2: He coincidentally is marking the one hundredth program this week.
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Speaker 2: Jo Scott, thank you for being with us. I find
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Speaker 2: it really interesting that no one is saying Kristen Smith
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Speaker 2: was murdered, because I believe she was. Why would you
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Speaker 2: go off to a secluded, heavily forested area and just
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Speaker 2: die of natural causes? That doesn't make sense. But I'm
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Speaker 2: curious about what you think regarding the discovery of the
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Speaker 2: second woman, Joanna Speaks. That's one out of six so
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Speaker 2: far found in the Portland area, where police are convinced
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Speaker 2: that that was not where she died, that she was
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Speaker 2: brought there, dumped there, which as an entire new dimension
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Speaker 2: to these murders.
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Speaker 13: Yeah, and with Misspeaks, you're talking about a case that
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Speaker 13: is actually not in Oregon. This case actually originates in Washington,
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Speaker 13: across the river.
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Speaker 7: But still all then just a few miles from each other.
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Speaker 13: Yeah, within a few miles absolutely. And it's interesting that
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Speaker 13: they say that she was not killed in this location,
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Speaker 13: and they've stated near a barn and then in a barn.
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Speaker 13: So that's that's kind of curious because that's a location,
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Speaker 13: isn't it, Nancy. It's not like just saying out in
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Speaker 13: the woods or out in a wooded area that gives
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Speaker 13: you an indication that an individual may have had knowledge
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Speaker 13: of a specific structure if they were looking to hide
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Speaker 13: a body. Also very significant here, this is the single
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Speaker 13: case out of this cluster of six that we're talking
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Speaker 13: about where we have a manner and a cause of death.
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Speaker 13: And Nancy, this is very personal. This is not someone
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Speaker 13: that was shot at a great distance. We're talking about
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Speaker 13: blunt force trauma to the head and the neck, which
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Speaker 13: means that somebody either used an instrument like a bludgeoning tool,
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Speaker 13: or they use their hands to literally beat her to
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Speaker 13: death or perhaps even stomp on And we don't know yet,
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Speaker 13: but You're talking about intimate contact at this moment tome,
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Speaker 13: and this raises it to a completely different level because
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Speaker 13: this is just purely horrific.
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Speaker 2: Well, I agree, it's horrific, but I'm curious about why
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Speaker 2: they believe that she was dumped there. This was a
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Speaker 2: disposal site, which makes it at least a secondary crime scene,
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Speaker 2: if not a tertiary.
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Speaker 7: So is that true for all of the women?
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Speaker 2: Because I'm looking for connections, similarities and dissimilarities.
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Speaker 14: Listen, Multlm County deputies need your help after what they're
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Speaker 14: calling a suspicious death in the area of Ainsworth State
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Speaker 14: Park on Monday, someone found the body of Charity Perry
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Speaker 14: of Longview in a colvert near east Historic Columbia River
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Speaker 14: Highway and Northeast Tumult Road.
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Speaker 7: Before that, she.
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Speaker 14: Was seen last month in downtown Portland around southwest fourth
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Speaker 14: and Washington. If you have any information in this case,
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Speaker 14: please contact Moultnama County Deputies.
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Speaker 2: So now we have a third body that emerges. There
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Speaker 2: is Christa Smith, h twenty two, There is Johanna Speaks,
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Speaker 2: aged thirty two, and now Charity Perry. Charity Perry's dead
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Speaker 2: body has been found back to at Newell joining us
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Speaker 2: kx L News, and that explain to me how Charity
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Speaker 2: Perry's body was found.
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Speaker 9: She's twenty four years old. Her body was found in
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Speaker 9: a culvert near Ainsworth State Park and that's in East
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Speaker 9: Moltnomah County. It is again in a rural area. And
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Speaker 9: you know, I just got a message from one of
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Speaker 9: the family members of one of these victims saying, help
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Speaker 9: us find these young, beautiful women who've lost their lives
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Speaker 9: all around the same time. And she said, I don't
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Speaker 9: know whether there's one serial killer on the loser, multiple
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Speaker 9: homicidal maniacs on the loose, but I don't know which
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Speaker 9: one I'm terrified of more. And that's how a lot
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Speaker 9: of people are feeling right now.
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Speaker 2: I'm thinking about this Ainsworth State Park and when you
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Speaker 2: research it, it's beautiful, but it's very, very heavily forested.
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Speaker 2: There are waterfalls, there are hiking paths, very very rough terrain,
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Speaker 2: multiple falls there in Oregon is a feeder from Eagle
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Speaker 2: Creek the Columbia River tributary, and it's got a lot
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Speaker 2: of visitors every year, but you've got to be made
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Speaker 2: of stern stuff to go hiking there. And that is
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Speaker 2: where this woman the third victim that we're talking about,
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Speaker 2: Charity Perry's body is found. Please join us now on
10:35
Speaker 2: Fox Nation for a brand new investigation, Parallels of Evil
10:40
Speaker 2: the Bundy and Idaho Killings. In this gripping special investigation,
10:46
Speaker 2: we bring together an incredible panel of guests who analyze
10:50
Speaker 2: disturbing similarities of evil between these horrible crimes. We speak
10:58
Speaker 2: with two female Ed Bundy survivors, Karen Pryor and Cheryl Thomas,
11:04
Speaker 2: who described their life before and after they were victims
11:09
Speaker 2: of Ted Bundy. We also speak with the renowned private
11:14
Speaker 2: investigator Bill Warner who worked the cases, and Ted Bundy's
11:18
Speaker 2: defense attorney, John Henry Brown. We traveled to Moscow, Idaho,
11:23
Speaker 2: to speak with Washington State University students and interview neighbors
11:27
Speaker 2: of Brian Coburger. One neighbor shares exclusive insights about the
11:33
Speaker 2: suspect in the Idaho killings, Brian Coburger. Don't miss Parallels
11:39
Speaker 2: of Evil the Bundy and Idaho Killings, streaming now exclusively
11:44
Speaker 2: on Fox.
11:44
Speaker 1: Nation Crime Stories with Nancy Gray.
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Speaker 2: Joining me right now is a veteran homicide detective, Chris McDonough,
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Speaker 2: who has investigated over three hundred homicides He is the
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Speaker 2: founder and director at the Cold Case Foundation and you
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Speaker 2: can find him on the interview room on YouTube.
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Speaker 7: Chris, thanks for being with us. I want to talk
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Speaker 7: to you about the method.
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Speaker 2: Of disposal that we have so far and the unwillingness
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Speaker 2: of authorities in this area to entertain the idea that
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Speaker 2: these cases, or some of them, if not all of them,
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Speaker 2: are absolutely connected. How can six women turn up dead
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Speaker 2: in this short space of time, all with seventy miles
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Speaker 2: from Portland, all in secluded areas, out in the open.
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Speaker 2: Nobody's found inside a house or buried or wrapped up
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Speaker 2: in plastic or in some type of a structure an outhouse,
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Speaker 2: curtilage as we call it under the law, tool shed,
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Speaker 2: fishing shed, nothing like that. They're all disposed of much
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Speaker 2: in the same manner. What do you make of it,
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Speaker 2: chrismin Dunnet.
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Speaker 15: Well, it's interesting so far, Nancy, just listening to the
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Speaker 15: information that we have available in the public that the
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Speaker 15: authorities have not come out in a press conference of
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Speaker 15: some sort and relate to the public that look, it
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Speaker 15: appears that these incidents are similar in nature and relationship
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Speaker 15: to the geographic locations and what we're doing. I e
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Speaker 15: is an investigation. Arm of this is to let the
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Speaker 15: public know, please be vigilant, please be aware, pay attention
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Speaker 15: to the transit systems, because we're trying to connect these
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Speaker 15: thoughts currently. What that does is open the valve to
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Speaker 15: the public for information to flow correctly, even if it's
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Speaker 15: to a single agency. The fact that the victims at
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Speaker 15: this point, some of them have the very obvious connections,
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Speaker 15: i e. The geographic area within three miles two bodies,
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Speaker 15: and then of course you have the wooded areas. Those
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Speaker 15: are very interesting and from victim one, Kristen Smith, the
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Speaker 15: victim two, Joanne speaks, it's interesting that on the second
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Speaker 15: one they say her body was moved to that location
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Speaker 15: after death. Joe, the autopsy has obviously presented information that
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Speaker 15: showed she was deceased and potentially could have been placed
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Speaker 15: into that other geographic location.
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Speaker 2: When you say autopsy, I naturally think of Joe Scott
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Speaker 2: Morgan death investigator, Joe Scott.
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Speaker 7: What would you find.
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Speaker 2: On a body to indicate the body had been moved
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Speaker 2: to that location?
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Speaker 13: For me, one of the first things that my kind
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Speaker 13: of fallback relative to movement of bodies in the post
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Speaker 13: mortem state after death is distribution of post mortem lividity,
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Speaker 13: which simply means that's the gravitational settling of blood. And
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Speaker 13: I'll give you an example. If somebody dies on their back,
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Speaker 13: for instance, that is face up in a supine position,
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Speaker 13: the blood will literally literally settle to dependent areas, which
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Speaker 13: is all going to be on the backside.
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Speaker 2: In other words, if you die alining, face up, all
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Speaker 2: the blood in your body settles on your backside, your back,
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Speaker 2: your your end, the back of your legs, the back
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Speaker 2: of your arms, all the body sinks down to the
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Speaker 2: lowest common area, the backside. And the reverse, if you're
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Speaker 2: found on your stomach at all, yes, sinks to the
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Speaker 2: front of your body.
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Speaker 7: Go ahead.
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Speaker 13: And so after a period of time, and this is key,
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Speaker 13: After a period of time, lividity fixes nancy, which means
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Speaker 13: that all those little vessels we have just underneath the skin,
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Speaker 13: our capillary beds, those the blood that has settled in
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Speaker 13: those areas begins to leech out of those little capillary
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Speaker 13: beds and it literally stains what's called the interstitial tissue,
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Speaker 13: all that tissue that surrounds those vessels, and it just
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Speaker 13: stains the skin. And it doesn't matter what happens. You
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Speaker 13: can't get rid of it. So let's just say, for instance,
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Speaker 13: you have an individual that is lying on their back
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Speaker 13: for a protracted period of time after death. Okay, the
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Speaker 13: blood settles on the back side, you take the body,
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Speaker 13: you move the body to another location. Let's say you
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Speaker 13: lay the body on the right side or on the
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Speaker 13: left side, or maybe even face down. You still have
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Speaker 13: lividity on the back. You can't make it go away, Nancy.
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Speaker 13: So that's one of the first things we look for
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Speaker 13: and from a forensic standpoint, at a scene, to see
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Speaker 13: if a body has been moved, If it blanches, which
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Speaker 13: means when you press it, that means that there's you're
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Speaker 13: within about a four hour window of the of the death,
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Speaker 13: because it takes about that long for lividity to begin
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Speaker 13: to set in. But if you blanch it, or you
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Speaker 13: try to press down on the skin and it doesn't blanch,
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Speaker 13: that means that the person the lividity has been fixed.
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Speaker 2: John, When you say blanche, you mean when you press
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Speaker 2: your finger into skin it turns a little bit white.
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Speaker 13: Yeah. Yeah, And people can do that at home. Just
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Speaker 13: press press down on your skin and you'll see your
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Speaker 13: skin turns, it blanches out.
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Speaker 2: So if you don't blanch that means four hours. Yes, yeah,
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Speaker 2: Scott Morgan. When I heard a net nwle from k
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Speaker 2: Excel State Detectives thought Joanna Speaks had been moved to
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Speaker 2: that location. I was thinking that maybe part of her body.
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Speaker 2: I was just thinking of her backside, like her legs
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Speaker 2: or her back had movement marks, like when you get
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Speaker 2: scraped from being from hitting asphalt or being dragged across gravel,
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Speaker 2: it leaves that marking on the back of your skin.
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Speaker 2: Or if she had been dragged that maybe her pants
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Speaker 2: or her socks or some part of her clothing had
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Speaker 2: been pulled in that direction, do you see what I mean?
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Speaker 2: Or maybe there was some particle on her light gravel
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Speaker 2: like I'm not even sure what that affixed to her
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Speaker 2: that was not in the environment where she was found,
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Speaker 2: like an asphalt scrape, And of course those particles would
18:36
Speaker 2: still be in the scrapes if they looked at them.
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Speaker 2: Yet she's found on a lawn or sitting up against
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Speaker 2: that barn. That's what I thought of. But what you
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Speaker 2: said was really interesting about the lividity and the blanching
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Speaker 2: hold on guys. Kathleen Murphy, lawyer joining us out of
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Speaker 2: North Carolina. You can find her in c North Carolina,
19:03
Speaker 2: Incdomestic law dot com. She has also investigated and worked
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Speaker 2: on many many cases that end in homicide.
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Speaker 7: Kathleen jump in.
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Speaker 16: Thank you, Nancy. I just want to point out some
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Speaker 16: similarities of these victims. I was doing a little bit
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Speaker 16: of reading and a lot of these sweet women have
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Speaker 16: been very petite build They have a very small build
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Speaker 16: five feet five to one, smaller frames, easy to carry,
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Speaker 16: easy to place, and a lot of the women involved
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Speaker 16: clearly clearly come from loving families who are missing them,
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Speaker 16: and we need to find some type of connection or
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Speaker 16: some type of answers for these families because the women
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Speaker 16: involved had a very very similar type of lifestyle and
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Speaker 16: they had a similar time type of family connections. Nancy,
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Speaker 16: if I could jump in about that. You know, Portland,
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Speaker 16: Oregon is a very outdoorsy place. People love to hike,
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Speaker 16: they go to the public parks, they're out and about,
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Speaker 16: and all of these women seem to have been apprehended
20:16
Speaker 16: when they were out in public. And I think that's
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Speaker 16: a very important similarity. This is not like somebody is
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Speaker 16: breaking into their apartment or into their cars. You know,
20:27
Speaker 16: remember Richard Ramirez the Night stalker. He broke into women's homes.
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Speaker 4: At night while they were in their beds. So that's
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Speaker 4: a very specific offending style to apprehend women, murder them,
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Speaker 4: take them to a different place when they are already outdoors.
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Speaker 4: Tells us something about this guy that maybe he's an outdoorsman.
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Speaker 4: Maybe he's the kind of guy who watches women as
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Speaker 4: they hike, or as they picnic, or as they hang
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Speaker 4: out with their friends. There's been plenty of cases where
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Speaker 4: serial killers will find young lovers who are maybe in
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Speaker 4: a lover's lane kind of situation, or having sex or
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Speaker 4: making out in their cars by a lake. That's a
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Speaker 4: particular type of offending style paired with victims selection. Again,
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Speaker 4: Richard Ramirez would break into people's homes look at Coburger.
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Speaker 4: We don't know if he would have gone on to
21:25
Speaker 4: become a prolific serial killer, but he targeted college women
21:31
Speaker 4: who are in sorority houses. So this at least gives
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Speaker 4: the public some kind of clue if there's a serial
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Speaker 4: killer that ties all of these cases together, he is
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Speaker 4: kind of on the move out in public.
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Speaker 2: You know what, that's a really good observation you're hearing,
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Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall, renowned psycho analysts, joining us out of
21:50
Speaker 2: Beverly Heels. You can find her at Doctorbethanymarshall dot com.
21:55
Speaker 2: That is a really good analysis of how these women
21:59
Speaker 2: may have been accosted ending up dead. We have described
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Speaker 2: Kristen Smith's discovery, Joanna Speaks, and Charity Perry. But then
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Speaker 2: an unidentified Native American is found. Guys, take a listen
22:18
Speaker 2: to our cut b.
22:20
Speaker 17: An unidentified woman between twenty five and forty years old
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Speaker 17: was found dead near I to A five in southeast
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Speaker 17: Flavelle Street. The Moltnoman County Medical Examiner's Office is asking
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Speaker 17: for the public's help identifying her and provided this sketch.
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Speaker 17: They say she was possibly Native American with medium length
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Speaker 17: black hair and about five foot one. At the time,
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Speaker 17: they say she was wearing a longsleeve green T shirt,
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Speaker 17: a black and white jacket, and black and white Adidas cleats.
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Speaker 17: She also had two tattoos, a black music note with
22:51
Speaker 17: the letter V on her chest and the Buddha on
22:54
Speaker 17: her back.
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Speaker 2: Straight back out to death investigator and Professor Forensics Jacksonville
22:58
Speaker 2: State University as Morgan Scott. How is it that in
23:04
Speaker 2: this age fingerprints in DNA and.
23:08
Speaker 7: Dental records, that.
23:10
Speaker 2: We have an unidentified female body, and how do they
23:14
Speaker 2: know that she is Native American?
23:17
Speaker 13: Well, obviously they've they've probably employed the use of a
23:21
Speaker 13: forensic anthropologist here because when it comes to identification of race,
23:28
Speaker 13: that's their forte. That's what they're going to go into.
23:31
Speaker 13: And we don't really know how extensive any kind of
23:34
Speaker 13: changes in the body might be relative to her. But
23:37
Speaker 13: what we do know is that there's at least significant
23:39
Speaker 13: soft tissue because they're identifying tattoos with her Nancy, we're
23:43
Speaker 13: talking about a musical note. We're also talking about an
23:46
Speaker 13: image of the Buddha, which is significant and those are identified.
23:51
Speaker 7: Scott.
23:51
Speaker 2: Yes, ma'am, just throw out something like that, because to me,
23:55
Speaker 2: that's a bombshell. You said the Buddha is significant.
24:01
Speaker 13: Yes, it is.
24:02
Speaker 2: I find the tattoo significant in my mind because I
24:05
Speaker 2: may be able to trace the tattoo parlor and figure
24:08
Speaker 2: out from them who came in and got the believe
24:12
Speaker 2: it's a butterfly, and then the next tattoo, and very
24:16
Speaker 2: often once a person gets one tattoo, they go back
24:19
Speaker 2: to the same tattoo parlor. Tattoos have been critical in
24:24
Speaker 2: identifying bodies and even proving cases. For instance, if I'm
24:28
Speaker 2: trying somebody for murderer and they have a tattoo such
24:33
Speaker 2: as a tear coming out of their eye, which in
24:35
Speaker 2: some places signifies they've already killed one person, it can
24:40
Speaker 2: mean other things as well.
24:42
Speaker 7: I can't wait to show that to a Jerry.
24:44
Speaker 2: So here, this woman has a musical note. Yes it
24:46
Speaker 2: was a musical note, not a butterfly and Buddha. So
24:50
Speaker 2: very often they go back to the same tattoo parlor.
24:53
Speaker 2: Maybe I can identify her through that, or maybe Buddha
24:57
Speaker 2: indicates how she worships. You don't know, but it opens
25:02
Speaker 2: up a plethora of possibilities. But what were you talking
25:05
Speaker 2: about when you said it's very significant.
25:06
Speaker 13: Well, it's significant. First off, you've got a combination, right,
25:09
Speaker 13: It's not just like you have the singular image of
25:12
Speaker 13: the boot or the singular image of the musical note.
25:15
Speaker 13: You have a combination. So that makes her distinctive. As
25:18
Speaker 13: to dental identification, hey, look, in order to make a
25:22
Speaker 13: dental identification, you gotta have pre death dental records, and
25:26
Speaker 13: right now they don't know. Now if they can narrow
25:28
Speaker 13: this down, possibly and as far as fingerprints go. We
25:32
Speaker 13: don't know what the status of her body was. Were
25:34
Speaker 13: they able to lift prints off of her, that is,
25:37
Speaker 13: to roll a print off of her fingerpad, or was
25:40
Speaker 13: her body compromised to the point decomposed that is where
25:43
Speaker 13: they couldn't do that. And if she's never been hooked
25:46
Speaker 13: up on charges at all, means she's not going to
25:48
Speaker 13: be in the system.
25:48
Speaker 2: Okay, what he's saying is, in many jurisdictions, if you
25:53
Speaker 2: have a felony charge, you give your DNA, not all
25:56
Speaker 2: by far because the ACLU is fighting that tooth and claw.
26:01
Speaker 7: Or what about this? If she's ever put her.
26:03
Speaker 2: DNA out there for genetic genealogy, do you know that's
26:07
Speaker 2: a possibility? Who's jumping in?
26:09
Speaker 7: Who's this? This is in net?
26:10
Speaker 9: Nowel I was just looking at the Mulde mccunny Medical
26:13
Speaker 9: Examiner's office statement about this, and in addition to the tattoos,
26:18
Speaker 9: they also mentioned two large scars on her lower left
26:22
Speaker 9: leg to help identify her.
26:24
Speaker 7: So I thought that that might be interesting.
26:27
Speaker 2: Well, thank you, Now, what could that indicate? If it
26:30
Speaker 2: were like across her tummy, I say, oh, it's a
26:33
Speaker 2: Syrian section, or across the throat, I would say some
26:36
Speaker 2: type of a tray or something to do with her
26:39
Speaker 2: vocal cords, which would then we could trace back to
26:42
Speaker 2: a hospital. But what does the leg star mean to you?
26:46
Speaker 2: Was it some type of an accident Joscott?
26:49
Speaker 13: Yeah, and you would have to qualify that. You know,
26:51
Speaker 13: when they say scars, that's every single one of every
26:54
Speaker 13: one of us on this panel has the scar of
26:56
Speaker 13: some kind. And so you don't know if it's surgical
26:58
Speaker 13: in nature, which they could take at autopsy even with
27:02
Speaker 13: severely decomposed bodies, you can appreciate that. Or did she
27:05
Speaker 13: have a bicycle accident when she was a little girl
27:08
Speaker 13: and fell off of her bike and she sustained these scars.
27:10
Speaker 13: We don't know at this point.
27:26
Speaker 7: Time.
27:26
Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace, Joe Scott.
27:31
Speaker 2: Just last night and I was talking to John David
27:33
Speaker 2: and Lucy and John David actually has a scarlet looks
27:36
Speaker 2: like a smiley face on his thumb where he cut
27:40
Speaker 2: himself on a scout camp out and he was catch
27:43
Speaker 2: this showing somebody else how to use a knife. All right,
27:47
Speaker 2: So that said, and you're right, this could come from
27:50
Speaker 2: a bike accident when she was a little kid. It
27:52
Speaker 2: could come from a motorcycle accident. It could come from
27:55
Speaker 2: a surgery. Oh but Annette Knewell, how many people have
28:00
Speaker 2: a musical note tattoo, a Buddha tattoo and a scar
28:06
Speaker 2: on her leg?
28:08
Speaker 7: You're so write Anett Newell two.
28:11
Speaker 9: Two large scars on her left lower leg.
28:14
Speaker 2: And still unidentified. Well, I've only made it to four
28:18
Speaker 2: victims so far, so let me move to a thirty
28:22
Speaker 2: one year old young lady, Bridget Webster take a listen
28:27
Speaker 2: to our friends at crime online.
28:30
Speaker 12: Bridget, also known as Breebery Ramsey Webster, comes from a
28:34
Speaker 12: large and tight knit family. She's close with her two brothers,
28:37
Speaker 12: Dylan and Brendan, who described their sister as beautiful, goofy,
28:41
Speaker 12: and intelligent. Webster frequently shares cooking tips from her mother
28:45
Speaker 12: and photos of her two cats on Facebook. In fact,
28:48
Speaker 12: Webster recently welcomed three kittens and is working on finding
28:52
Speaker 12: them good homes.
28:53
Speaker 7: Then Webster disappears.
28:55
Speaker 2: Doctor Bethany Marshall, you know, it strikes me about what
28:59
Speaker 2: our forensic crime online dot com just said.
29:01
Speaker 7: It sounds like all of us.
29:03
Speaker 2: I'm constantly sending pictures of recipes and something I made
29:08
Speaker 2: and this and that and the other thing, and talking
29:12
Speaker 2: about finding homes for the kittens.
29:14
Speaker 7: It makes her so real to.
29:17
Speaker 4: Me, Nancy, this is a woman who loves her mother,
29:21
Speaker 4: loves her siblings, they love her. She sounds like she's
29:25
Speaker 4: fostered three kittens after having a cat of her own,
29:28
Speaker 4: and now she wants to find good homes for them.
29:30
Speaker 4: This is a good person. I mean, this humanizes her.
29:34
Speaker 4: This places here in the context of family relationships and community.
29:39
Speaker 4: But you know, it's a Native American. I was thinking
29:41
Speaker 4: about those tattoos. They really tell a story. They tell
29:45
Speaker 4: a story of somebody who maybe has a Native American heritage,
29:49
Speaker 4: has migrated to maybe an out culture type situation where
29:54
Speaker 4: now she's interested in Buddhism. Maybe she's gone to college
29:58
Speaker 4: and studied music, or she plays in some kind of
30:01
Speaker 4: a band. So these tattoos also tell a story of
30:06
Speaker 4: a rich life, a person with a personality with the community.
30:11
Speaker 4: You don't just get a musical note tattoo if you're
30:14
Speaker 4: not embedded in the music community in some way. So
30:18
Speaker 4: we look at these two victims and now there are
30:21
Speaker 4: there are overlapping circles between different communities, the music community,
30:28
Speaker 4: the animal shelter community, people who foster kittens, and then
30:31
Speaker 4: rehome them or rehouse them, or people who generally know
30:36
Speaker 4: the different rescue, animal rescue centers or veterinary clinics, and
30:41
Speaker 4: a certain community, people who send recipes. They may be
30:44
Speaker 4: a part of an online cooking community. So now this
30:48
Speaker 4: really places these women's personalities, their lives in the context
30:53
Speaker 4: of culture, community, friendships, love. So we can begin to
30:57
Speaker 4: delve a little further into who they are and nancy
31:01
Speaker 4: who might have accosted them, murdered them, who may have
31:05
Speaker 4: known them, What is the thread that ties all of
31:08
Speaker 4: this together?
31:09
Speaker 2: And not only the unique individual characteristics, but as doctor
31:14
Speaker 2: Bethany Marshall just said, we're looking for commonalities these characteristics
31:20
Speaker 2: as they relate to characteristics of the other woman. Right now,
31:23
Speaker 2: we're talking about one, two, three, four five, the fifth
31:27
Speaker 2: female victim in the Portland area whose body has just
31:31
Speaker 2: been found April thirty, twenty twenty three, Bridget Webster take
31:35
Speaker 2: a listener, Forensic KOI and cut fourteen.
31:38
Speaker 18: The Pope County Sheriff's Office investigating after a Milwaukee woman's
31:42
Speaker 18: body was found abandoned in their jurisdiction. A deputy say
31:46
Speaker 18: Bridget Webster's body was found on Sunday near Mill Creek
31:49
Speaker 18: in Northwest Polk County. They say Webster was last seen
31:53
Speaker 18: alive in the Portland metro area. The Sheriff's office asking
31:56
Speaker 18: anyone who knew her or has information about her death
32:00
Speaker 18: to call detectives.
32:01
Speaker 7: Back to Annette Newel joining us k x L.
32:04
Speaker 2: How was Bridget Webster's body found? Thirty one year old
32:08
Speaker 2: Bridget Webster. Yeah, in Northwest Polk County. Othough, it doesn't
32:13
Speaker 2: mean that that's where she where she died. We don't
32:16
Speaker 2: know that yet.
32:17
Speaker 9: But you know, one thing I want to mention about
32:21
Speaker 9: Bridget and another of the victims, Joanna, is that they
32:23
Speaker 9: knew each other. You notice how close in age those
32:26
Speaker 9: two are, thirty one and thirty two. They were actually
32:29
Speaker 9: childhood friends, Bridget and who knows each other? Joanna speaks,
32:34
Speaker 9: They were actually very close as children.
32:37
Speaker 2: Okay, right there, right there, Joe Scott Morgan.
32:41
Speaker 7: How are authorities.
32:42
Speaker 2: Saying that these cases are not connected? How are they
32:46
Speaker 2: saying that that there's not a serial killer? How can
32:49
Speaker 2: there be this coincidence two young ladies similar in age
32:54
Speaker 2: thirty one thirty two one found April thirty one found
32:57
Speaker 2: April eighth, in the same area. Yeah, and their childhood friends. Impossible.
33:03
Speaker 13: You're not talking about a metro population of like five
33:06
Speaker 13: thousand people, Nancy, We're talking about Portland, Oregon, which has
33:10
Speaker 13: a huge population. What are the odds that these two
33:14
Speaker 13: would have known one another in childhood and then they
33:16
Speaker 13: would both be found to seized in isolated areas in
33:20
Speaker 13: pretty close proximity. From a chronological standpoint, it's very hard
33:26
Speaker 13: to get past that. Intellectually, I think you begin to
33:29
Speaker 13: think about this, what kind of connection do you have
33:31
Speaker 13: between these two women? When where they last together? I
33:35
Speaker 13: think that that's significant. When had they both had communications
33:40
Speaker 13: with one another? And you begin to see a connection.
33:44
Speaker 13: And then even further, who are the common components in
33:47
Speaker 13: their life? Who are the individuals that they still have
33:51
Speaker 13: contact with that know something about them intimately? Is there
33:56
Speaker 13: anybody in their current situation in life that knows their
34:00
Speaker 13: comings and goings that you can tie back to that
34:03
Speaker 13: individual That's somebody I'd like to ask some questions.
34:06
Speaker 2: Guys, we haven't even gotten to the sixth victim, Ashley Reel.
34:12
Speaker 2: Take a listen to our three our friends at k GW.
34:17
Speaker 19: We've heard from two of the law enforcement agency agencies
34:20
Speaker 19: handling these cases and Basically, they're not ruling anything out
34:24
Speaker 19: at this point. They're talking with partner agencies on the
34:26
Speaker 19: off chance these cases are somehow connected, and this comes
34:29
Speaker 19: as a relief to the family of one of the
34:32
Speaker 19: five victims. These woods off Southeast Judd Road in rural
34:35
Speaker 19: Clackamus County is where deputies discovered the remains of Ashley Reel.
34:39
Speaker 19: The twenty two year old was last seen in late
34:41
Speaker 19: March at a fast food restaurant and transit center in
34:43
Speaker 19: East Portland. These photos of Reel are some of the
34:46
Speaker 19: last before she turned up dead in that heavily wooded area.
34:49
Speaker 2: I want to understand why authorities would say these cases
34:56
Speaker 2: are not connected to Kathleen Murphy vein t lawyer joining
35:00
Speaker 2: us out of North Carolina.
35:01
Speaker 7: What do you think?
35:02
Speaker 16: I am shocked at the news that the two victims
35:06
Speaker 16: knew each other. I am concerned that all of these
35:10
Speaker 16: women had similar builds. I tied together the location of
35:14
Speaker 16: all of the bodies, and it's concerning to me that
35:18
Speaker 16: all of these women were in a very walkable, transit
35:23
Speaker 16: transit based area, and it seems to be something that's
35:27
Speaker 16: fairly easy to pick up a small woman. And I
35:29
Speaker 16: do think that there's a connection between these deaths and
35:35
Speaker 16: the location and the manner of death.
35:38
Speaker 7: Night Toinette Neil joining us from k Excel.
35:41
Speaker 2: What do we know about the circumstances surrounding the discovery
35:45
Speaker 2: of Ashley Reel.
35:46
Speaker 9: There's actually a video of her that police have been
35:49
Speaker 9: posting that was the last time she was seen alive.
35:52
Speaker 9: She was at a fast food restaurant in Southeast Division
35:55
Speaker 9: Street on March twenty seventh, and that she may have
35:59
Speaker 9: also been at a T transit center a MAX station
36:01
Speaker 9: that same day. And she is She's an Hispanic female,
36:06
Speaker 9: four feet eleven inches tall, as you mentioned, eighty five pounds,
36:09
Speaker 9: a very small young woman.
36:11
Speaker 7: And we know that.
36:14
Speaker 9: Let's see, they have descriptions of what she was last wearing.
36:19
Speaker 9: She was carrying a tote bag. And it just created
36:22
Speaker 9: a lot of panic in the area when we were like,
36:25
Speaker 9: this is like you said, this is a sixth person
36:28
Speaker 9: in a row that we've been asked to try to find.
36:30
Speaker 9: And then and then again she's found in a wooded
36:33
Speaker 9: area in the Southeast area.
36:37
Speaker 2: Guys, this is what they're publicly saying. Take a listen
36:41
Speaker 2: to our cut eighteen our friends and ko I.
36:44
Speaker 20: M It's definitely something that they're looking at. You know,
36:47
Speaker 20: they're aware that there's there seems to be some similarities there,
36:49
Speaker 20: but it's too soon for them to say that there's,
36:51
Speaker 20: you know, anything directly linked between these.
36:54
Speaker 21: The deaths of Perry, Webster and Real are all being
36:57
Speaker 21: investigated as suspicious. We spoke to neighbors near where the
37:00
Speaker 21: Smith's body was found in February, telling us law enforcement
37:03
Speaker 21: teams have been back to the scene several times since then,
37:06
Speaker 21: where teams were walking shoulder to shoulder in the fields.
37:09
Speaker 20: We're a big enough metro region, especially here where you know,
37:12
Speaker 20: people come and go across the bridges, and so we're
37:14
Speaker 20: they're very used to working with the other agencies in
37:16
Speaker 20: other states.
37:17
Speaker 7: Okay, let's figure out why they're saying that.
37:20
Speaker 2: Why they're saying is too soon to say anything directly
37:25
Speaker 2: linked between them when two of them were childhood friends.
37:29
Speaker 7: Joe Scott, what is happening?
37:32
Speaker 13: Oh, I don't know, you know, My thought is how
37:35
Speaker 13: far back in time do we want to take this
37:38
Speaker 13: to find out if there are other women? I think
37:41
Speaker 13: this is going to be significant that fit this this
37:44
Speaker 13: grouping that we have, you know, what we know slightly
37:47
Speaker 13: built this sort of thing. They're found in isolated areas
37:50
Speaker 13: and rural rural depositions out here. I'd like to know,
37:55
Speaker 13: are are there any others, you know, looking back one, two,
37:59
Speaker 13: three years that remain unsolved where we have questions about this.
38:03
Speaker 13: Are healthy, healthy young women? Now these are under forty, Nancy,
38:09
Speaker 13: just walking out into rural areas and falling over dead
38:12
Speaker 13: as a hammer. I don't understand that, you know, that's
38:15
Speaker 13: the big question. And to this point, other than misspeaks,
38:19
Speaker 13: we don't have a cause of death on any of these.
38:22
Speaker 13: But Nancy, as you know, as a guy that deals
38:24
Speaker 13: you know, in medical legal death investigation, it really makes
38:27
Speaker 13: me scratch my head. I want to know why these
38:30
Speaker 13: young women are dying, and why are they dying in
38:32
Speaker 13: isolated locations.
38:33
Speaker 2: And I want to know why the authorities are saying
38:36
Speaker 2: they're not connected when they're in such close proximity and
38:41
Speaker 2: two of them were childhood friends. They even look similar
38:45
Speaker 2: physically to doctor Bethany Marshall. Have you ever looked at
38:50
Speaker 2: all of Ted Bundy's victims side by side. They are
38:54
Speaker 2: amazingly similar, right down to the part in their hair.
38:57
Speaker 4: Nancy, it's so true. And these victims, I was just
39:01
Speaker 4: looking at their photos. Some of the similarities are that
39:04
Speaker 4: they have a certain kind of an innocent look to them.
39:09
Speaker 4: They look very natural. They don't look like a California
39:13
Speaker 4: sorority girl who has had their teeth fixed and their
39:15
Speaker 4: hair dyed and you know, everything just perfect perfect. These
39:19
Speaker 4: are girls who are like, have been outdoors, who maybe
39:23
Speaker 4: exposed to the elements. Hikers, bikers, they're very natural looking.
39:27
Speaker 4: At women, they're fetitue. They mostly they have dark hair.
39:31
Speaker 4: So there's definitely victims selection and profiling going on. I
39:36
Speaker 4: have some thought about why the police are saying that,
39:39
Speaker 4: you know, none of these they don't know what the
39:41
Speaker 4: connection is between all these cases. And you know, I
39:44
Speaker 4: don't know the police like you do, but it does
39:47
Speaker 4: place pressure on them to solve the crime very quickly.
39:51
Speaker 4: As soon as the public knows that there is a
39:54
Speaker 4: serial killer on the loose, there is panic and ammonium. Again,
40:01
Speaker 4: I reference Richard Ramirez the nightstalker. I mean, just because
40:05
Speaker 4: that's my own personal experience with that kind of thing,
40:09
Speaker 4: because I was in graduate school at the time. My
40:12
Speaker 4: roommates and I were terrified to go to sleep. We
40:15
Speaker 4: would have one person stay up. We would tie rope
40:19
Speaker 4: around our windows, even though we had locks, we would
40:22
Speaker 4: like Bluey trap everything because we were so terrified. And
40:25
Speaker 4: this story still makes its way into my practice today
40:28
Speaker 4: women who are traumatized by that. So we have potentially
40:32
Speaker 4: traumatic situation that could just cause a mass hysteria. And
40:37
Speaker 4: I think they're trying to maybe put the clues together
40:40
Speaker 4: a little bit more before they'd start to say that
40:42
Speaker 4: there's a serial killer on the loop guy.
40:44
Speaker 2: So far, I've counted six agencies working this Portland pay
40:47
Speaker 2: day Maltlamont County, Oregon State Police, Polk County, Clark County,
40:52
Speaker 2: and Clackamas County.
40:54
Speaker 9: And they say they're all working together and that they
40:56
Speaker 9: are sharing information.
40:58
Speaker 7: Well, that's good to know, and I hope that's true.
41:00
Speaker 2: If you have or think you have information regarding this investigation,
41:05
Speaker 2: dial five zero three eight two three zero zero zero
41:10
Speaker 2: zero repeat five three eight two three.
41:16
Speaker 7: We wait as this investigation of the thoughts goodbye