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CHARLIE KIRK SHOOTING: JUDGE WINCES @ SHOCK VIDEO, WIDOW EXITS · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Tonight to the Charlie Kirk shooting hearing in the courtroom,
0:06
Speaker 1: the judge physically recoils when he sees shock video. I mean'sy, grace,
0:15
Speaker 1: this is crime stories. I want to thank you for
0:17
Speaker 1: being with us.
0:25
Speaker 2: Apparently, the day after the shooting, this mother looks at
0:29
Speaker 2: the images released by the FBI as they were hunting
0:32
Speaker 2: this person down. She thinks it looks like her son.
0:35
Speaker 2: Calls him. He says he's at home sick. For the
0:38
Speaker 2: second day.
0:38
Speaker 3: In a row.
0:39
Speaker 1: He said he was home sick. What did he add?
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Speaker 1: The dog ate my homework, home sick. That's a week.
0:45
Speaker 4: There's no way that you're not going to recognize your child.
0:50
Speaker 5: I could see the right side of charlie shoulder, so
0:53
Speaker 5: not his whole body because had that he was underneath
0:55
Speaker 5: the tent, so I can only see probably the right
0:56
Speaker 5: side of his body. Was a question kid asking him
1:01
Speaker 5: a question, and then I heard a shot fire.
1:05
Speaker 6: What did you see at that moment? I saw him
1:09
Speaker 6: lean to the left.
1:10
Speaker 7: So when you say him, you Charlie, Charlie.
1:13
Speaker 5: So I saw him go to the left. If I
1:16
Speaker 5: could no longer see the right side of his body,
1:19
Speaker 5: then everybody started getting up and starting to run in
1:23
Speaker 5: more of a chaos kind of situation.
1:26
Speaker 1: Joining us tonight an all star panel. But you just
1:30
Speaker 1: saw what's happening in the courtroom to Nate Eaton, joining
1:35
Speaker 1: US news director East Idaho News and Star Off Courtroom
1:39
Speaker 1: Insider on YouTube. Nate, explain to me why the defendant,
1:46
Speaker 1: Tyler Robinson was smirking and laughing and a few feet away,
1:52
Speaker 1: mister Kirk's widow, Erica was sobbing. That's quite the dichotomy,
1:58
Speaker 1: is it not.
2:00
Speaker 8: Yeah, I don't know why he was doing that, Nancy.
2:02
Speaker 8: What I do know is that he was joking with
2:05
Speaker 8: his attorney. Appeared to be joking. They were chatting with
2:07
Speaker 8: each other as very serious things were being discussed, including
2:11
Speaker 8: the shooting of Charlie Kirk. There was video being shown
2:14
Speaker 8: in the hearing of Charlie Kirk being shot and other
2:18
Speaker 8: evidence and video surveillance footage that we're learning about and
2:21
Speaker 8: seeing for the first time during this court hearing.
2:24
Speaker 9: Yeah, I'm I'm flummoxed straight out to Josh coles Rude,
2:29
Speaker 9: joining the veteran criminal defense attorney, former federal prosecutor, founder
2:34
Speaker 9: of coles Rude Law Firm, and Starup No Contest podcast
2:41
Speaker 9: Coles rude, what is he laughing about?
2:44
Speaker 10: Well, you know it's an all day hearing, right, and
2:48
Speaker 10: there are always going to be moments of levity, you know,
2:53
Speaker 10: as much as we don't want to admit, you know,
2:56
Speaker 10: mister Robinson is a human being and there are going
2:59
Speaker 10: to be moments where he you know, may.
3:02
Speaker 11: Smile a little bit.
3:04
Speaker 1: Now.
3:04
Speaker 10: I looked at the video. You know, this wasn't a
3:07
Speaker 10: burst of laughter, right.
3:09
Speaker 7: Uh.
3:09
Speaker 10: There was a short smile that he had with a
3:14
Speaker 10: conversation he was having with his attorney. It wasn't inappropriate
3:18
Speaker 10: for a courtroom, meaning that if I was a judge,
3:21
Speaker 10: I wouldn't necessarily stop the proceedings to ask the defendant.
3:25
Speaker 11: You know what's funny? Do you find this funny? It
3:28
Speaker 11: wasn't that type of situation.
3:30
Speaker 12: Uh.
3:30
Speaker 10: And you know, I think that we just had to
3:32
Speaker 10: look at this in context. You know, we're looking at
3:35
Speaker 10: one very smart.
3:37
Speaker 1: I bet you do. Don't you look at it in
3:40
Speaker 1: context context of Charlie Kirk's dead body shot through the neck.
3:45
Speaker 1: And let me correct you. Actually, I'm gonna let Nate
3:47
Speaker 1: eat and correct you. Nate Eaton, joining US news director
3:51
Speaker 1: East Idaho News, Nate, we heard Josh Colsruthe spinning it out,
3:56
Speaker 1: spinning it out that during a long hearing like this,
4:01
Speaker 1: there are moments of celebrity. Well, that's bs technical legal term,
4:05
Speaker 1: because wasn't the laughter and the smirking at the very beginning,
4:09
Speaker 1: before the proceedings even started.
4:11
Speaker 8: It wasn't the beginning, Nancy. Yeah, court hadn't quite started yet,
4:14
Speaker 8: the audience said. The gallery was being ushered into the courtroom.
4:18
Speaker 8: Erica Kirkberry Somber, Charlie Kirk's parents were there with her.
4:22
Speaker 8: Don Junior, Donald Trump Junior was there as well. They
4:25
Speaker 8: were all in the court.
4:26
Speaker 1: Ru Dear Lord in Heaven, Nate eaton. This is not
4:31
Speaker 1: a who's who of celebs showing up to pack the courtroom.
4:35
Speaker 1: Don't care care about one thing, one thing, only the evidence,
4:40
Speaker 1: the probative evidence I need if I were prosecuting this case,
4:45
Speaker 1: enough evidence for the judge to bind this over state
4:49
Speaker 1: that there is pc probable cause for this case to
4:52
Speaker 1: be heard by a jury. I don't care. If the
4:57
Speaker 1: Angel Gabriel descended in that courtroom and sat on the
5:02
Speaker 1: front row, I would arrest him for disturbing the courtroom.
5:06
Speaker 1: Handcuffs for the hands and a rope for the wings.
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Speaker 1: Don't tell me who showed up and who was wearing what.
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Speaker 1: Don't go there. I only want to hear about the evidence.
5:15
Speaker 1: Is that understood?
5:17
Speaker 13: Yeah?
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Speaker 8: Well my purpose in saying that, Nancy is everybody was
5:20
Speaker 8: very somber, very quiet.
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Speaker 1: Yes, it was right right, Okay, back to it, the
5:26
Speaker 1: smirking and the laughing. I'm sorry to cut you off.
5:29
Speaker 1: I actually mean that with you, Nate Eaton. I've got
5:32
Speaker 1: this amount of time to discuss that amount of evidence,
5:35
Speaker 1: so I find it very probative that Tyler Robinson was
5:38
Speaker 1: actually gafawing, laughing, smirking at the beginning of the proceedings. Now,
5:44
Speaker 1: Josh Colesry tried to chalk it off to it was
5:46
Speaker 1: a long date. No, it wasn't. Also, he also stated
5:51
Speaker 1: that there was no laughing. It's my understanding he was laughing.
5:55
Speaker 1: It wasn't just a it was a full on laughter.
6:02
Speaker 8: There was some laughter, Nancy. I don't know the exact minute,
6:05
Speaker 8: but there definitely was some laughter.
6:07
Speaker 1: Okay. Also, Josh Colesroot, in his attempt to turn Moldy
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Speaker 1: Hay into gold Rumblestealskin, he stated that it wasn't so
6:18
Speaker 1: bad that the judge stopped the proceedings and reprimanded Robinson
6:24
Speaker 1: because the proceedings hadn't started yet. That's why the proceedings
6:27
Speaker 1: were not stopped. So all of Colesrood defenses just got
6:32
Speaker 1: shot down. But I'm going to give him a moment
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Speaker 1: to think about what he said. I'm sure he'll come
6:36
Speaker 1: up with something new. Let's go straight back into the courtroom.
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Speaker 5: When I got on top, I hopped over the guardrail.
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Speaker 6: I noticed that there.
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Speaker 5: Was an object which was sitting right about ten or
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Speaker 5: fifteen feet in from the other side of the guardrail
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Speaker 5: in the gravel that looked out a place.
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Speaker 7: To me and in relationship to where you hopped over
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Speaker 7: the guard rail. What direction was that object?
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Speaker 6: To the west of the guardrail?
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Speaker 7: Okay? And did you recognize the object?
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Speaker 13: I did?
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Speaker 7: And what was it?
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Speaker 6: It was a red and black screwdriver.
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Speaker 7: Okay.
7:11
Speaker 1: That from our friends at East Idaho News, Nate Aton.
7:16
Speaker 1: Why is a screwdriver important?
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Speaker 8: Well, Nancy, this is an officer who was working that
7:23
Speaker 8: day when this shots rang out. He heard the gun shot,
7:26
Speaker 8: He ran from his position down to the courtyard where
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Speaker 8: there were thousands of people running chaotic. It was crazy
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Speaker 8: for crying. He's trying to ascertain what happened here. He
7:37
Speaker 8: looks up to the nearby roof. He works his way
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Speaker 8: up there, as he testified, and that's where he finds
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Speaker 8: a screwdriver. Now, why would you need a screwdriver on
7:45
Speaker 8: the roof. It's believed that mister Robinson likely used it
7:49
Speaker 8: to get his way onto the roof, to work his
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Speaker 8: way up a stairwell which was easily accessible to the public,
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Speaker 8: but once you got to the top, he needed to
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Speaker 8: jump over a railing, and then to actually get on
8:00
Speaker 8: the roof, he likely could have used that screwdriver.
8:02
Speaker 1: Well, you're absolutely right, Nate Eaton and Joe Scott Morgan,
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Speaker 1: Why a screwdriver? Let's see if we can catch a
8:11
Speaker 1: shot of just anyone walking up the steps to the
8:15
Speaker 1: sniper's den. How do you get in and out of
8:18
Speaker 1: those parking garage doors? Oh maybe with a screwdriver. Okay,
8:24
Speaker 1: turn toward the camera. Look this.
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Speaker 7: Oops.
8:28
Speaker 1: I hate when that happens. I bet Josh Colesrwe does too.
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Speaker 1: When your client looks right at a surveillance video. Okay.
8:35
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan joining me, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University,
8:39
Speaker 1: the author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon and
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Speaker 1: star of a hit series podcast Body Bags with Joe
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Speaker 1: Scott Morgan. But he is a death investigator with over
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Speaker 1: ten thousand death scenes under his belt. Why a screwdriver?
8:55
Speaker 1: Why is inimportant?
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Speaker 4: Well? I think that it could have multiple util First off,
9:00
Speaker 4: we're talking about Jimmy in a potential lock that he
9:04
Speaker 4: might have to defeat in order to get access to
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Speaker 4: the roof. I've often wondered if he's already been to
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Speaker 4: that roof before in the days leading up to to
9:13
Speaker 4: try to assess that position. With that said, I think
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Speaker 4: another another potential for that screwdrivers put possibly there to
9:23
Speaker 4: break down the weapon. But again, none of this has
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Speaker 4: been completely revealed at this point in time. Now, going
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Speaker 4: back to the lock, if he did in fact attempt
9:33
Speaker 4: to jimmy a lock with a screwdriver, Nancy tool marks
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Speaker 4: are going to come into effect here. So the blade
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Speaker 4: of that screwdriver. You think about the business end of
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Speaker 4: a screwdriver, if you're trying to price something open, that's
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Speaker 4: going to leave a treasure trove, a trace evidence and
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Speaker 4: impression evidence on the lock because you can actually marry
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Speaker 4: that up almost like a ballistic signature to that actual
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Speaker 4: screwdriver and the marks that are left behind on the
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Speaker 4: door that's going to be key here. So I don't
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Speaker 4: know that anything is off the table relative to the screwdriver.
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Speaker 4: It could have multiple utility.
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Speaker 1: And you know what's interesting, I think Cole's rude will
10:14
Speaker 1: agree with this. Every piece of evidence, even if it's
10:19
Speaker 1: just a screwdriver, could have probative value. I remember a
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Speaker 1: serial killer I got them on one. I could extrapolate
10:30
Speaker 1: so much from one ear ring based on where I
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Speaker 1: found the ear ring. It had been sliced out of
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Speaker 1: the victim's ear and the ear ring was in one
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Speaker 1: place and the body with the other earring still attached
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Speaker 1: was in another place. It really helped me prove that case.
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Speaker 1: My point is, don't discount the screwdriver. Don't you know?
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Speaker 10: You're right, Nancy, that every piece of evidence, including the screwdriver,
10:59
Speaker 10: you know, could be a sound to a case.
11:00
Speaker 11: But it swings both ways.
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Speaker 10: You know, the screwdriver may actually end up helping mister Robinson.
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Speaker 10: We just don't know enough about it right now. For example,
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Speaker 10: you know where exactly was it found on the roof,
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Speaker 10: Was it near the so called sniper pad, and how
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Speaker 10: exactly did it allow mister Robinson to gain access to
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Speaker 10: the roof. I don't think that's been explained to the
11:24
Speaker 10: point where we all have an aha moment. Oh, like
11:27
Speaker 10: you know, yeah, of course, you know he used a
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Speaker 10: screwdriver to get past a lock or something like that,
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Speaker 10: Like right now, you know, it's interesting and I think
11:35
Speaker 10: that there may be something there, but we just don't
11:38
Speaker 10: know enough about it to say whether or not it's
11:40
Speaker 10: going to be very probative or not helpful at all.
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Speaker 1: True. Obviously we don't know yet, but I do know this.
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Speaker 1: I'm sure they're looking to see if it came right
11:50
Speaker 1: out of Daddy's toolbox that he bought it lows and
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Speaker 1: the only thing missing is that red and black screwdriver
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Speaker 1: that said I want to go back into the court. Listen.
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Speaker 5: When I got up there and I could see this
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Speaker 5: the servants of gravel, to me, it looks like a
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Speaker 5: sniper pad, a person that has been laid in a
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Speaker 5: prone position, and you've got markings of elbows, knees, and
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Speaker 5: feet to where somebody was in the line of sight
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Speaker 5: of where Charlie's tent was. Plus also towards the far
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Speaker 5: right of the photo is also a marker where like
12:23
Speaker 5: somebody laid a gun down.
12:25
Speaker 6: Okay, it's like a pro position.
12:27
Speaker 1: He's Idaho News inside the courtroom bringing us that video
12:31
Speaker 1: straight out to special guests joining us tonight, a former
12:35
Speaker 1: army sniper CoA, Laura more CoA, thank you for being
12:41
Speaker 1: with us tonight. Explain what is a sniper's nest.
12:46
Speaker 3: So your sniper's nest or sniper's hide is going to
12:49
Speaker 3: be any preset position that you take your shot from. Now,
12:52
Speaker 3: if he was laying down on the roof in the gravel,
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Speaker 3: that's going to leave impressions of his chest, his arms,
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Speaker 3: his legs, and then even if his rifle has bipods
13:04
Speaker 3: right there, that's going to leave impressions in the gravel
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Speaker 3: as well.
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Speaker 1: So you state that it. In the past, you have
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Speaker 1: stated anyway that it's very important for the sniper to
13:14
Speaker 1: be comfortable. That video. You were just saying, by the way,
13:18
Speaker 1: from a charred man on X and it looks very
13:21
Speaker 1: sinister right there, looks very very sinister, that said, CoA.
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Speaker 1: Why comfort? Why does that matter?
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Speaker 3: Comfort matters in your sniper's position because you don't know
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Speaker 3: how long you're going to be there. If he was
13:38
Speaker 3: set up to take the perfect shot on Charlie, he
13:40
Speaker 3: could have waited, you know, hours, however long the ceremony
13:44
Speaker 3: was set up before. So you want to be as
13:47
Speaker 3: comfortable as possible so you can wait to take the
13:49
Speaker 3: perfect shot.
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Speaker 1: How do you prepare a sniper's nest?
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Speaker 3: So first you'd survey the area, so you're going to
13:56
Speaker 3: go where your best line of sight to your target is.
14:00
Speaker 3: Then sometimes we'd use a yoga matt, lay it down
14:04
Speaker 3: so we're comfortable on the uncomfortable like ground or uneven ground,
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Speaker 3: and the prone position laying down on the ground flat
14:11
Speaker 3: is probably the most comfortable position for a human delay
14:15
Speaker 3: for extended periods of time.
14:16
Speaker 2: So to you.
14:17
Speaker 1: Nate Ayton following up on what co Lormore just told us.
14:21
Speaker 1: Nate joining us from East Idaho News and he is
14:24
Speaker 1: the star of Courtroom Insider. How many times do we
14:29
Speaker 1: believe Tyler Robinson had been to the sniper's nest before
14:35
Speaker 1: the shooting.
14:36
Speaker 8: We don't know exactly how many times he went to
14:38
Speaker 8: that specific spot, but we do know he was on
14:40
Speaker 8: the campus that day according to surveillance footage at least
14:44
Speaker 8: four times. That includes a visit after the shooting late
14:49
Speaker 8: that night. We fought it was midnight around midnight the
14:51
Speaker 8: next morning, and many believed that he went back to
14:54
Speaker 8: try to retrieve the weapon that he had left behind
14:57
Speaker 8: near the building that the FBI and investigator had already taken.
15:01
Speaker 1: Straight out to renowned psychoanalys to joining us out of
15:04
Speaker 1: the la jurisdiction. It's doctor Bethany Marshall. She is the
15:08
Speaker 1: author of deal Breaker. You can see her now on
15:12
Speaker 1: Peacock and Bravo. She's the star of a brand new
15:16
Speaker 1: podcast On the Couch with Doctor Bethany Marshall, and you
15:19
Speaker 1: can find her at doctor Bethany Marshall dot com. Doctor
15:22
Speaker 1: Bethany have always wondered this, why do perps return to
15:27
Speaker 1: the scene of the crime? I don't need to know
15:30
Speaker 1: why when proving or telling that to a jury. It's
15:35
Speaker 1: like a dog the circles three times and finally sits down.
15:39
Speaker 1: I don't know why. I just know that they do
15:42
Speaker 1: and it means something. It means something to me.
15:46
Speaker 14: Well, in the case of this perpetrator, he probably knew
15:50
Speaker 14: Charlie Kirk's speaking schedule. He knew that this was an
15:54
Speaker 14: upcoming event and that after the commission of the crime,
15:58
Speaker 14: he wanted to sort of revel in the fact that
16:02
Speaker 14: he had actually completed what he has set out to do.
16:06
Speaker 14: And I think in this case, you know the laughter
16:09
Speaker 14: in the court, he's gleeful. He is not remorseful for
16:13
Speaker 14: what he has done. He is gleeful, he is happy.
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Speaker 1: Doctor Bethany, I'm glad you brought that back up. Whether
16:21
Speaker 1: he is proven guilty or not guilty, whether he is
16:24
Speaker 1: guilty or innocent, laughing with Charlie Kirk's widow, Erica a
16:31
Speaker 1: few feet away. At one point during the hearing of Nate.
16:35
Speaker 1: Correct me if I'm wrong, she was lying on Charlie
16:41
Speaker 1: Kirk's mom's shoulder, just crying and he's laughing. Whether he's
16:46
Speaker 1: innocent or guilty, that takes let's just say balls size coconuts. Correction, balls,
16:55
Speaker 1: the size of coconuts suggest bravery. This would be more
17:02
Speaker 1: like insulting, demeaning, discounting what she has been through while
17:09
Speaker 1: he's laughing, while she's crying a few feet away.
17:13
Speaker 14: Well, it's just to me that he's actually focused only
17:17
Speaker 14: one aspect of the crime. He's not seeing Erica Kirk,
17:22
Speaker 14: he's not seeing the entire family. He's not viewing the
17:26
Speaker 14: humanity of it all. And there's there's total lack of
17:31
Speaker 14: empathy and remorse. Nancy, He's just it's just a glorification
17:35
Speaker 14: of what he was able to do.
17:38
Speaker 1: Guys, you're saying footage, Oh my goodness, you're seeing footage
17:46
Speaker 1: of Charlie Kirk's coffin. You saw widow Erica kissing his hand.
17:56
Speaker 1: It's just just got more and joining us death investigator
18:04
Speaker 1: what they likely had to do to reconstruct his neck.
18:09
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that there had at some point been
18:12
Speaker 1: an open casket. I just feel so bad for her.
18:19
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's haunting, it truly is, and we'll never know
18:22
Speaker 4: the depth of her pain or any of his friends.
18:26
Speaker 4: But you know, what they will remember is what they saw,
18:31
Speaker 4: what they saw in those last moments, because that is
18:34
Speaker 4: the reality of what we're faced with now coming into
18:38
Speaker 4: this trial, are coming into this hearing certainly, and you
18:42
Speaker 4: know you were talking about just a moment ago, the
18:45
Speaker 4: snickering that's going on, and this sort of thing, however
18:47
Speaker 4: you want to frame it. I don't really care, because
18:52
Speaker 4: the gravity of all of this is lost on certain people.
18:55
Speaker 4: I think we hear a lot in the news about
18:58
Speaker 4: what they think happened, may have happened, all these wild
19:01
Speaker 4: conspiracy things but this is the reality of what you
19:04
Speaker 4: see in here. This is what families deal with every
19:07
Speaker 4: single day in America, and this is portrayed or portrayed
19:13
Speaker 4: before us in living color here, and this is the
19:16
Speaker 4: reality of it. This is what's left behind. So the
19:20
Speaker 4: key here, though from a forensic standpoint, is to understand
19:26
Speaker 4: where did the breadcrumbs lie relative to the science, How
19:29
Speaker 4: do they prove or disprove what actually happened that day,
19:33
Speaker 4: and to document it And that's very, very important so
19:36
Speaker 4: that everybody understands the depth and the gravity.
19:39
Speaker 7: Of all of this.
19:42
Speaker 1: To Dave mac joining me, Crime Stories, investigative reporter Nate
19:48
Speaker 1: and Bethany and I were talking about whether Tyler Robinson
19:53
Speaker 1: had been to the sniper's nest before Charlie Kirk was
19:58
Speaker 1: murdered was assassinated. How heavily was Charlie Kirk's event publicized, Nancy.
20:07
Speaker 15: It was publicized enough that there was a bit of
20:11
Speaker 15: a battle brewing on the campus of UVU early enough
20:16
Speaker 15: in the date for September tenth. On September third, the
20:21
Speaker 15: UVU Review published a piece about their activities on campus
20:26
Speaker 15: and free speech. There was opposition to Charlie Kirk appearing
20:30
Speaker 15: on campus well before.
20:32
Speaker 12: We're talking at least a week and before.
20:34
Speaker 15: And the group against Charlie Kirk appearing at the campus
20:39
Speaker 15: started a protest on change dot org and had eight
20:44
Speaker 15: hundred and ninety six people signed up to prevent him
20:47
Speaker 15: from speaking at a First Amendment free speech event. So
20:52
Speaker 15: there was a lot of activity. But Nancy, the campus
20:55
Speaker 15: was only expecting about six hundred students to show up
20:59
Speaker 15: at the event, and yet there were at least three
21:03
Speaker 15: thousand and probably more in attendance, So they really had
21:07
Speaker 15: an undervalue of what was going on. They didn't quite
21:10
Speaker 15: understand what Charlie Kirk was bringing to campuses across the country.
21:16
Speaker 1: So let me understand a mac. There was opposition to
21:19
Speaker 1: Kirk speaking. People wanted to prevent him from speaking at
21:25
Speaker 1: a free speech event.
21:28
Speaker 15: Absolutely, that was common at almost every college campus that
21:33
Speaker 15: Charlie Kirk spoke. It was there was always a battleground
21:38
Speaker 15: because he wanted to have this discussion, this dialogue, and
21:42
Speaker 15: it brought out people who just don't believe that if
21:45
Speaker 15: you disagree with them, you should be allowed to speak.
21:48
Speaker 15: And so that actually happened in almost every college campus
21:52
Speaker 15: that Charlie Kirk spoke.
21:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't get it. Dr Bethany Marshall. We have communists,
21:59
Speaker 1: we have hate groups, we have white supremacists, we have
22:07
Speaker 1: the KKK, we have Nazi groups. We have people burning
22:12
Speaker 1: our beloved flag and that's okay, right, It's all reprehensible.
22:20
Speaker 1: Why is it they can get away with that and
22:24
Speaker 1: Kirk can't have an event.
22:27
Speaker 14: You know what else we have Nancy is with our
22:30
Speaker 14: high schoolers. We have debate people go on debate teams
22:33
Speaker 14: and they debate different points of view. Socrates, Aristotle, all
22:39
Speaker 14: the great philosophers. They debate at different points of view.
22:42
Speaker 14: I mean the idea that somebody comes onto campus as
22:46
Speaker 14: a provocateur is actually good for the students. It actually
22:50
Speaker 14: sharpens their thinking. It sharpens their point of view, whether
22:54
Speaker 14: they agree with him or disagree. I think that what
22:57
Speaker 14: we have with Tyler, Robert and Sin is somebody who
23:02
Speaker 14: we can't really attach it directly to Charlie Kirk. We
23:06
Speaker 14: have to say that this is somebody who was pretty
23:10
Speaker 14: much looking for a target. And if we get into
23:13
Speaker 14: the weeds about what Charlie Kirk was saying, what his
23:16
Speaker 14: point of view was, if we agree or disagree, we
23:19
Speaker 14: lose the plot. And that's what this is all about.
23:23
Speaker 1: Straight back into the courtroom, I realized that we probably
23:26
Speaker 1: didn't have our shooter in custody.
23:28
Speaker 5: From that moment, I asked dispatch to get on the
23:31
Speaker 5: camera system and to see if anybody was on top
23:34
Speaker 5: of the Loci building during the time of the incident.
23:37
Speaker 7: Were you advised of anything?
23:39
Speaker 5: I was dispatched came back and advised me that there
23:41
Speaker 5: was a mal individual on top of the roof that.
23:45
Speaker 6: Was there at the time of the shooting.
23:47
Speaker 7: Did they describe what his movements were?
23:49
Speaker 4: They did?
23:49
Speaker 5: They stated that he ran to the edge, dropped down, crawled,
23:54
Speaker 5: got a prone position.
23:56
Speaker 7: I'm going to stop you right there, ran to the edge,
23:58
Speaker 7: what direction and what edge?
24:01
Speaker 5: Running west and southwest of the Losi building. So ran
24:04
Speaker 5: towards the tent where Charlie Kirk was so they could
24:07
Speaker 5: get a line of sight. And then the individual stood
24:12
Speaker 5: up after the shooting and ran northeast on the top
24:16
Speaker 5: of the Losi building.
24:18
Speaker 1: From our friends at East Idaho News, let's see the
24:21
Speaker 1: video of the purp coming down off the top of
24:24
Speaker 1: the building. While Nate Eaton describes what that testimony was,
24:28
Speaker 1: explain the significance of what we just heard.
24:31
Speaker 8: Well, this is huge nancy because they were able to
24:34
Speaker 8: pull this surveillance footage and show allegedly mister Robinson there
24:38
Speaker 8: on the roof. You see him coming to the edge,
24:40
Speaker 8: jumping down here he starts to run for a minute,
24:43
Speaker 8: but then he starts to hobble or somewhat limp as
24:47
Speaker 8: if he's maybe injured himself. Right about here is where
24:50
Speaker 8: it stops. He starts to kind of limp and then
24:54
Speaker 8: he leaves the campus, but he returns hours later, hours later,
24:58
Speaker 8: And it was actually ring doorbell footage from a neighbor
25:02
Speaker 8: in the dark that caught him parking across the street
25:05
Speaker 8: and walking back down, returning to the car and leaving again.
25:08
Speaker 8: So these cameras really pieced it all together, as multiple
25:12
Speaker 8: videos were shown during the hearing.
25:14
Speaker 1: So the video of him going through nearby neighborhoods on foot,
25:19
Speaker 1: cutting across yards and backcuts was shown in the hearing.
25:25
Speaker 1: Correct right yep about Jacoble Laura Moore joining us former
25:32
Speaker 1: army sniper based on what your understanding of the murder is,
25:39
Speaker 1: what type of weapon was used? And can you explain
25:42
Speaker 1: to us bolt action?
25:45
Speaker 3: Yes, So the type of weapon that was used is
25:48
Speaker 3: a bolt action rifle. So to explain bold action. One
25:53
Speaker 3: movement of this action chambers around, so you shoot, trust
25:56
Speaker 3: the trigger, bround goes out.
25:58
Speaker 13: You need a chamber another round.
26:00
Speaker 3: Now your typical AR fifteen is going to do that automatically, right,
26:04
Speaker 3: So you're gonna shoot on like AR fifteen and then
26:06
Speaker 3: around is automatically to get chambered.
26:08
Speaker 13: No need to move this.
26:10
Speaker 1: Nate Aaton, speaking of ballistics, was a shellcasing recovered and
26:17
Speaker 1: the sniper's desk in the sniper's nest.
26:20
Speaker 8: No, not there in the snipers ben and no area
26:24
Speaker 8: around it. But we did learn and Joe Scott would
26:27
Speaker 8: probably be able to speak to this, that there were
26:30
Speaker 8: fragments found during the autopsy of Charlie Kirk.
26:35
Speaker 3: CoA.
26:35
Speaker 1: Lor Moore explain to me CoA everyone is former army sniper.
26:41
Speaker 1: The difference and a handgun a bullet ammunition used in
26:48
Speaker 1: a handgun as opposed to a long gun.
26:54
Speaker 3: So the ammunition used in a handgun is going to
26:56
Speaker 3: be much smaller, shoot much shorter. This says, this is
27:01
Speaker 3: a thirty odd to six is what believed that Charlie
27:04
Speaker 3: Kirk got shot with, and it's much larger and used
27:09
Speaker 3: for a large game. There is a round called core
27:14
Speaker 3: lock made by Remington, which is a very common hunting
27:17
Speaker 3: round and it is nicknamed the deadliest mushroom in the woods.
27:22
Speaker 13: That's because the round expands on impact.
27:25
Speaker 3: And this has been used since the nineteen hundreds by
27:28
Speaker 3: the United States military and still commonly used by hunters today.
27:32
Speaker 1: Cole, have you ever fired that type of weapon?
27:37
Speaker 6: Yes?
27:40
Speaker 1: Does it have a recoil?
27:43
Speaker 13: Yes, it does have a recoil.
27:45
Speaker 3: It putses your shoulder back a little nothing your average
27:48
Speaker 3: adult male could not handle too.
27:51
Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan is joining us, jumping off what Cole
27:54
Speaker 1: Lormore just stated about this bullet bang the largest mushroom
28:02
Speaker 1: in the forest. Jo Scott Morgan Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University.
28:06
Speaker 1: He is the author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.
28:10
Speaker 1: He is the star of a hit podcast, Body Bags
28:13
Speaker 1: of Joe Scott Morgan, and he is a death investigator.
28:17
Speaker 1: Joe Scott explained to me what that would have done
28:21
Speaker 1: as it tore through Charlie Kirk's neck.
28:26
Speaker 4: Well, as it passes through the soft tissue of the neck, Nancy,
28:29
Speaker 4: it's going to create a cavity. If you will, it
28:32
Speaker 4: will in fact cavitate and create a track. We refer
28:36
Speaker 4: to it as a wound track. It's one of the
28:38
Speaker 4: things that we looked for at autopsy, and if you
28:42
Speaker 4: think about the trajectory, we hear a lot about that
28:45
Speaker 4: term with in the morgue. One of the things that
28:48
Speaker 4: we can do we can determine the flight path of
28:53
Speaker 4: the round upon initial impact onto the surface of the neck,
28:57
Speaker 4: so as it passes through the soft tissue, it'll begin
29:02
Speaker 4: to rip away the tiny little vessels that are contained
29:04
Speaker 4: therein it can also impact and damage the larger vessels.
29:09
Speaker 4: You know, you think about things like the croat and
29:11
Speaker 4: the juggler vein and all those sorts of things, and
29:13
Speaker 4: then once you hit the spine, you're talking about all
29:18
Speaker 4: the surrounding vessels that supply the spine and spinal cord
29:22
Speaker 4: with blood and also the structure of the spine getting
29:25
Speaker 4: into additionally into the spinal cord itself. Now, to this
29:30
Speaker 4: point we have yet to hear everything that they have
29:34
Speaker 4: regarding this wound track, but this round would in fact
29:37
Speaker 4: be devastating. CoA had mentioned that this round could mushroom
29:42
Speaker 4: and if it does, remember once around mushrooms, it increases
29:47
Speaker 4: the caliber size. You hear us talk about thirty caliber
29:50
Speaker 4: and forty five caliber and all these sorts of things.
29:53
Speaker 4: So if you think about around mushrooming, Nancy, that would
29:56
Speaker 4: suddenly go from like a thirty caliber maybe up to
30:00
Speaker 4: a thirty five caliber, maybe up to a forty caliber,
30:03
Speaker 4: because what you're doing is you're increasing the diameter of
30:08
Speaker 4: this surface, and it's ripping and tearing as it's going
30:11
Speaker 4: along down that bullet path.
30:14
Speaker 1: Were you able to tell what that object was in
30:16
Speaker 1: his hand?
30:17
Speaker 6: Yes, well, not tell what it is. I could see
30:19
Speaker 6: there's an object in the left hand.
30:20
Speaker 1: Yes, And could you, knowing what you know about the
30:23
Speaker 1: case today, do you have an idea about what that
30:25
Speaker 1: object was.
30:26
Speaker 5: It looks like a rifle or something to that effect,
30:29
Speaker 5: a long.
30:31
Speaker 6: Object.
30:33
Speaker 5: It looks like a rifle, like a long object like
30:35
Speaker 5: skinny and lung. You can see it's like almost like
30:38
Speaker 5: it's covered over something.
30:40
Speaker 6: So you saw the cover which was the towel, right, yes,
30:43
Speaker 6: and the shape of it is long.
30:45
Speaker 1: Okay, So you can see a towel, but you can't
30:48
Speaker 1: see an eye.
30:48
Speaker 6: I don't know if it was a tower or blanket.
30:50
Speaker 6: I don't know what it was.
30:51
Speaker 1: But you can't see an actual gun.
30:54
Speaker 5: No, like an object like a form of again, like
30:56
Speaker 5: a long object.
30:57
Speaker 1: And dodger Bethany Marshall's she thing, we're idiots. She said, well,
31:01
Speaker 1: all you really saw was a towel. Well, I mean yeah,
31:06
Speaker 1: because he doesn't have X ray vision, but it's in
31:08
Speaker 1: the shape of a gun.
31:09
Speaker 14: So a towel hit Charlie Kirk in the neck. I honestly, yeah. No,
31:18
Speaker 14: we all know what happened on that day. We're all
31:20
Speaker 14: well acquainted with it, and.
31:22
Speaker 1: It's just a tragedy.
31:24
Speaker 14: That's what unfolded.
31:26
Speaker 1: I mean to suggest that we don't know what was
31:29
Speaker 1: under the towel, that you couldn't make it out, but
31:31
Speaker 1: you know what. Nate Eaton joining us, a star off
31:34
Speaker 1: courtroom insider on YouTube and news director East Idaho News.
31:38
Speaker 1: Please tell me, Please tell me the towel was recovered.
31:45
Speaker 8: They did recover the towel, according to the FBI. Nancy
31:47
Speaker 8: not only that, they were able to obtain DNA off
31:51
Speaker 8: of the towel. Now, we don't know if that was sweat,
31:54
Speaker 8: if that was blood when he fell and cut himself,
31:57
Speaker 8: or his fingerprints, exactly what the DNA was, maybe his hair,
32:02
Speaker 8: But the FBI did confirm that they did obtain DNA
32:06
Speaker 8: from the towel.
32:07
Speaker 1: I'm just wondering, Nate, if there's also going to be
32:12
Speaker 1: gun shot residue on the towel, because that would be
32:15
Speaker 1: a prosecutor's dream for the towel to have not only
32:18
Speaker 1: a gunshot residue from a recently fired long gun, but
32:22
Speaker 1: also DNA from the defendant thoughts.
32:26
Speaker 8: Yeah, it could be gun shot residue on that for sure.
32:29
Speaker 8: If he kept that towel wrapped around the gun or
32:31
Speaker 8: even near the gun when it was fired from that rooftop,
32:35
Speaker 8: no doubt that it would have some remnant of it
32:37
Speaker 8: down below.
32:41
Speaker 1: Cole lor Moore joining us from our army sniper, can
32:45
Speaker 1: you dismantle a long gun of that nature, because we
32:50
Speaker 1: see on movies and TV where immediately the sniper breaks
32:53
Speaker 1: down the gun, that puts it in a little box
32:55
Speaker 1: that big and just walks off. I don't know if
32:58
Speaker 1: that's possible with this weapon.
33:02
Speaker 3: So there is multiple long guns, Nancy, that can be
33:04
Speaker 3: broken down, but an older gun in this version, it
33:07
Speaker 3: would be quite hard to disassemble quickly and break down.
33:11
Speaker 1: Could you hold up the weapon you have that is
33:13
Speaker 1: similar to the murder weapon in this case? Okay, yeah,
33:18
Speaker 1: that's not breaking down. And you said earlier that the
33:22
Speaker 1: tripod legs at the beginning would have left a mark
33:27
Speaker 1: and indentation of some sort in the sniper's nest.
33:31
Speaker 3: Yes, Nancy said these would be to stabilize the weapon,
33:35
Speaker 3: so they would go right into the gravel, which would
33:37
Speaker 3: leave two marks, pretty obvious to police.
33:43
Speaker 13: Right in the gravel, right where he left.
33:46
Speaker 1: So, Josh Colsrude, look at what Cole Lormore is holding up.
33:49
Speaker 1: Colsrud veteran criminal defense attorney. So you're telling me if
33:53
Speaker 1: you put a towel from the holiday inn over that
33:56
Speaker 1: I can't tell it's a gun.
34:00
Speaker 10: Well, I think what she was trying to get at
34:02
Speaker 10: was that we just don't know yet what the evidence means.
34:07
Speaker 10: And you know, the defense attorney's doing her job, you know,
34:10
Speaker 10: she's calling it a question the evidence because you know,
34:13
Speaker 10: the security at that location just wasn't what it should
34:19
Speaker 10: have been for an event like this, you know, and
34:22
Speaker 10: had security been tighter, you know, Charlie Kirk may still
34:27
Speaker 10: be alive today. And what we also would have known
34:30
Speaker 10: from better security is you know, who had access, who
34:34
Speaker 10: was up there, and you know, because we didn't have
34:37
Speaker 10: any eyes on that location, it just it means that
34:40
Speaker 10: anybody could have.
34:41
Speaker 11: Had access right, not just mister Robinson.
34:45
Speaker 10: And so the defense attorney is creating these reasonable questions
34:49
Speaker 10: about evidence that we just don't know a lot about.
34:53
Speaker 1: And also straight out to Dave matt joining US Crime
34:56
Speaker 1: Stories investigative reporter. Then in court, a defense attorney's wildest
35:03
Speaker 1: dream comes true, evidence a second gun emerging, which could
35:12
Speaker 1: conceivably torpedo the state's case. There's another gun? Really, does
35:18
Speaker 1: that mean Tyler Robinson didn't fire the murder bullet? Oh, listen, Dave.
35:26
Speaker 5: I was informed on the radio that we had a
35:28
Speaker 5: shooter in custody, so I thought at that moment, I
35:32
Speaker 5: was like, oh, that was kind of fast. Obviously it
35:33
Speaker 5: was close range, probably because we had an individual in custody.
35:37
Speaker 5: Another officer came on said we had an individual in custody.
35:39
Speaker 5: So I started pushing people off the grass out of
35:42
Speaker 5: the courtyard area because I knew that's.
35:44
Speaker 6: Where the crime scene was.
35:46
Speaker 5: So as we started pushing those guys out, my chief
35:50
Speaker 5: Chief Long that was right next to me, I looked
35:53
Speaker 5: down and saw an empty pistol holder that was sitting
35:57
Speaker 5: just on top of the grass, and at that moment,
36:00
Speaker 5: things that died down just a split second, I realized
36:02
Speaker 5: that the shot I heard was more of a rifle
36:05
Speaker 5: shot and not a pistol shot.
36:07
Speaker 1: Dave mac a second gun, the specter of a second shooter.
36:12
Speaker 15: Unbelievable, Nancy, that Christopher Bagley testifies, that's who you were
36:16
Speaker 15: listening to right then, talking about seeing this holster on
36:21
Speaker 15: the ground near the top of the courtyard area. Not
36:23
Speaker 15: on the rooftop where investigators found evidence of the den
36:29
Speaker 15: of the sniper's den, but on the ground.
36:32
Speaker 12: Now here's the problem, Nancy.
36:34
Speaker 15: We have a holster for a pistol on the ground
36:38
Speaker 15: right there in this area where Charlie Kirk has just
36:43
Speaker 15: been shot, and Bagley did.
36:47
Speaker 12: Not collect it as evidence. He did not know who
36:52
Speaker 12: it belonged to.
36:53
Speaker 15: He didn't know whether it was ever fingerprinted or anything else.
36:57
Speaker 15: He just didn't do anything other than observed a holster
37:01
Speaker 15: on the ground.
37:02
Speaker 1: Oh, Josh Cols rude. I mean, I don't even have
37:06
Speaker 1: to give you a cue for this. For peak's sake,
37:09
Speaker 1: the defense will run wild. It's like giving a dog
37:12
Speaker 1: a bone and they run off with it. Explain.
37:15
Speaker 11: Yeah, let me tell you why.
37:17
Speaker 10: You know, the defense isn't going to say that you know,
37:19
Speaker 10: Charlie Kirk wasn't shot by a rifle. Right. What this
37:23
Speaker 10: shows is a sloppy investigation. And when you can show
37:27
Speaker 10: a jury that the investigation was sloppy, it creates questions.
37:32
Speaker 10: It creates doubt. You know, why didn't the police collect
37:36
Speaker 10: the evidence?
37:37
Speaker 12: You know what?
37:38
Speaker 10: Was there actually a weapon inside of the holster?
37:41
Speaker 11: Whose holster was it? You know, where is it now?
37:45
Speaker 10: You know? Those are all interesting questions that jurys will
37:49
Speaker 10: want answers from. And when the police are unable to
37:53
Speaker 10: provide those answers that a clever defense attorney's going to say, well, look,
37:57
Speaker 10: if the law enforcement was sloppy here, that means they
38:01
Speaker 10: were sloppy over here too, where there are also legitimate questions.
38:06
Speaker 10: So it calls into doubt, It calls into the credibility
38:10
Speaker 10: of the investigation itself when they when a law enforcement
38:15
Speaker 10: commits an unforced error, all they had to do was
38:18
Speaker 10: pick it up and put it, the holster into an
38:21
Speaker 10: evidence bag.
38:22
Speaker 11: How hard is that?
38:24
Speaker 10: But when you're incompetent, you're not doing your job correctly,
38:27
Speaker 10: apparently it's very difficult put them up.
38:31
Speaker 1: You mean, like when you're trying to catch the shooter
38:35
Speaker 1: that you just saw jump off a roof. You don't
38:38
Speaker 1: wade into a sea of people to get an empty,
38:41
Speaker 1: empty holster. Okay, you call it incompetent. Yeah, I wish
38:44
Speaker 1: they had gotten the holster. I call it responding to
38:49
Speaker 1: an assassination. But hey, that's just me to co it
38:53
Speaker 1: lore more former Army sniper. We cannot positively identify or
39:01
Speaker 1: match the fragment we believe is taken from Charlie's body.
39:09
Speaker 1: We don't know that yet where the fragment came from,
39:12
Speaker 1: but it was in the autopsy report that said we
39:16
Speaker 1: cannot match that fragment to Tyler Robinson's gun, but we
39:21
Speaker 1: can based on the circumference of the bottom of the bullet,
39:27
Speaker 1: which was not deformed upon impact, we can determine if
39:33
Speaker 1: it came from a long gun, not a handgun that
39:36
Speaker 1: would have fit into a holster as we know it,
39:38
Speaker 1: and explain.
39:41
Speaker 3: Yes, Nancy, So just because you can't match the fragment
39:45
Speaker 3: to the rifle, it doesn't mean the round did not
39:48
Speaker 3: come from that long gun. Also, the back of the
39:51
Speaker 3: round is going to be wider than your average pistol round,
39:56
Speaker 3: and so comparatively they're going to be totally different, and
39:59
Speaker 3: you can tell even though the round is going to
40:02
Speaker 3: mushroom and expand when it hits its target, you can
40:06
Speaker 3: tell what size round it is.
40:09
Speaker 1: Okay, hold up the bottom of that for me so
40:13
Speaker 1: I can see the width of the bottom of the
40:16
Speaker 1: See that. See that that that was not other end,
40:21
Speaker 1: other ends, other bottom. There you go. Yes, Okay, Joe
40:27
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan, do you see that He's right? Color Moore
40:30
Speaker 1: is right. Joe Scott, explain in your scientific jargon what
40:35
Speaker 1: we're saying, because this is what a jury's going to hear.
40:39
Speaker 6: Yeah.
40:39
Speaker 4: So, when you're trying to match around to a specific barrel,
40:43
Speaker 4: you're going to look for striations along the long axis
40:46
Speaker 4: of the projectile itself, and those those specific striations will
40:51
Speaker 4: match up to the weapon, to the lands and grooves
40:55
Speaker 4: as they're referred to in the barrel that causes the
40:57
Speaker 4: bullet to spin. Now, that is a very distinctive ballistic signature.
41:01
Speaker 4: One of the problems that has come up with this case, Nancy,
41:05
Speaker 4: is that they are alleging that this round actually fragmented,
41:09
Speaker 4: so they cannot include or exclude this to this rifle. However,
41:14
Speaker 4: as far as this specific type of round this was
41:20
Speaker 4: that can be matched up, this is a thirty point
41:24
Speaker 4: three to zero ought six, so that can be matched
41:29
Speaker 4: up because apparently they still had the base of the round.
41:32
Speaker 4: I have a mushroom round right here. If you look
41:35
Speaker 4: at it very carefully, you can see the base of it, okay,
41:39
Speaker 4: and that's one of the things that they will be
41:40
Speaker 4: measuring to see if it marries up with that round.
41:43
Speaker 4: Now we're talking about doing further testing here. I don't
41:46
Speaker 4: know what that testing is going to consist of, but
41:50
Speaker 4: it would seem to me that this round has fragmented
41:54
Speaker 4: to the point where they cannot lift any kind of
41:58
Speaker 4: ballistic signature off of these. One of the beauty parts
42:02
Speaker 4: to this, I think is that, you know, one of
42:05
Speaker 4: the things that defense attorneys prattle on and on about
42:08
Speaker 4: relative to demonstrations in courtrooms is that they will say
42:12
Speaker 4: that images from autopsies are too prejudicial because of the
42:17
Speaker 4: gore and the blood. They're not going to need that
42:19
Speaker 4: with this Nancy. One of the things they're going to
42:21
Speaker 4: show in court are going to be radiographic images. So
42:24
Speaker 4: with Charlie's remains, what will have happened is that his
42:27
Speaker 4: body would have been thoroughly X ray. They may have
42:30
Speaker 4: even done a CT and you're going to see that
42:32
Speaker 4: lead storm pop up on that screen in that courtroom
42:36
Speaker 4: when the thing goes to trial, and you're going to
42:38
Speaker 4: see that cavitated area that's blown out through his neck,
42:42
Speaker 4: and you'll see those little bits of lead that lead
42:46
Speaker 4: to that actual terminal event as it goes through cavitating
42:51
Speaker 4: and clipping, clipping vessels in there until you know, we
42:54
Speaker 4: see what happens in the end when Charlie falls over
42:57
Speaker 4: and he's deceased bleeding from the.
43:01
Speaker 1: Let me see CoA, Laura Moore and Joe Scott Morgan
43:04
Speaker 1: in a two shot please and Joe Scott as we're
43:08
Speaker 1: showing you, CoA, please look at the deformed as we
43:12
Speaker 1: say in court, the deformed spent shell. Could you hold
43:19
Speaker 1: that up, Joe Scott so, CoA, you see the circumference
43:25
Speaker 1: of the bottom of that deformed shell right there. Okay,
43:30
Speaker 1: how can you CoA look at that and tell me
43:34
Speaker 1: that's not a twenty two, that's not a thirty six,
43:37
Speaker 1: that's not a thirty eight. That is more akin to
43:40
Speaker 1: the quote deadliest mushroom in the forest from a long gun.
43:46
Speaker 12: This man.
43:46
Speaker 3: So it's going to measure similar size to the back
43:50
Speaker 3: of the round here now this is fully in case,
43:52
Speaker 3: but the back of the round is going to match
43:56
Speaker 3: the round here before it mushrooms out.
43:59
Speaker 1: Uh huh see the way you just said that perfect? Okay,
44:05
Speaker 1: Dave mac Erica Kirk had to get up and leave
44:11
Speaker 1: the courtroom when and why?
44:16
Speaker 15: And see Erica Kirk as well as as Charlie's parents.
44:21
Speaker 15: They both got up and walked out two different times
44:24
Speaker 15: during the hearing. And it comes down to the shots fired,
44:30
Speaker 15: you know, the shot fired rather the courtroom, the way
44:35
Speaker 15: that the shot was shown. It was turned so that
44:39
Speaker 15: the gallery could not see it but could hear it,
44:42
Speaker 15: and that caused Erica to leave as well as Charlie's parents.
44:49
Speaker 12: Just the whole idea of this hearing.
44:51
Speaker 15: Nancy has just brought everything back to the forefront of
44:55
Speaker 15: everything they've had to defend. And you know, Charlie Kirk's
44:58
Speaker 15: parents have been very they don't do a whole lot out,
45:03
Speaker 15: you know, and it's just been devastating. I guess it's
45:06
Speaker 15: probably the only real word that fits.
45:09
Speaker 1: You know, Dave, I hate to interrupt your pontificating, but
45:12
Speaker 1: when Erica got up and left along with Charlie Kirk's parents,
45:17
Speaker 1: is that when the judge visibly recoiled and winced when
45:23
Speaker 1: he saw the shooting video.
45:26
Speaker 12: It was right before that, Nancy.
45:28
Speaker 15: And the win thing that has caught everyone by surprise
45:34
Speaker 15: is because you know, and you've mentioned this in past,
45:37
Speaker 15: you guys have seen everything in court, and this was
45:41
Speaker 15: such a shock that even the judge, prepared to know
45:45
Speaker 15: what was happening, still was shocked enough that he recoiled.
45:50
Speaker 15: And that's what has caused the family so much pain
45:52
Speaker 15: that they had to get up and lead knowing what
45:54
Speaker 15: was coming.
45:55
Speaker 1: Just psycho analyst doctor Bethany Marshall explain what is happening
45:59
Speaker 1: When it's so bad, the judge himself, who has seen
46:04
Speaker 1: it all, actually recoils on the bench and Erica Kirk
46:09
Speaker 1: has to get up and leave.
46:12
Speaker 14: You know, Nancy, it's a moment of humanity. It's attaching
46:17
Speaker 14: to the victim and to the families and to the
46:20
Speaker 14: reality of what happened. You know, we think of post
46:24
Speaker 14: traumatic stress disorder as something that arises when something bad
46:29
Speaker 14: happens to us, but really the criteria is when we
46:34
Speaker 14: see something horrible happen to a loved one. That's what
46:38
Speaker 14: causes PTSD. Our soldiers returning from the war is not
46:43
Speaker 14: because something bad happened to them. It's because something bad
46:47
Speaker 14: happened to their comrades. They saw something that was devastating
46:54
Speaker 14: to somebody that they cared a great deal about.
46:58
Speaker 7: And I would.
46:58
Speaker 14: Imagine this judge, as with all of us, have attached
47:02
Speaker 14: ourselves to Charlie Kirk. We know that he was a provocateur.
47:06
Speaker 14: We know that he went to various campuses, he engaged
47:10
Speaker 14: in debates with students, and I think there, you know, Nancy,
47:14
Speaker 14: I think there. I think there's a certain amount of
47:18
Speaker 14: caring about debate, theory, politics, all of that that comes
47:24
Speaker 14: into play when you go to campus after campus and
47:28
Speaker 14: you engage in college with college students. You're trying to
47:31
Speaker 14: help them sharpen their own point of view. So this
47:34
Speaker 14: is somebody, maybe even the judge came to care about,
47:38
Speaker 14: and it was traumatic for him to see what happened
47:40
Speaker 14: to Charlie Well.
47:42
Speaker 1: I can't speak to what was going through the judge's
47:45
Speaker 1: mind that Dr Bethany, even now, all these years later,
47:50
Speaker 1: just the thought of that video makes my stomach hurt
47:56
Speaker 1: because my fiance was shot in the head, the neck,
48:02
Speaker 1: the back, and we often protect our necks, and it's
48:07
Speaker 1: such a vulnerable area of the body. And to think
48:11
Speaker 1: of that bullet that Cole, Laura Moore and Scott Morgan
48:14
Speaker 1: we're describing as the biggest mushroom when the forest slicing
48:18
Speaker 1: through Charlie Kirk's neck. And maybe I'm, you know, projecting
48:23
Speaker 1: what happened to Keith onto this, but it is very upsetting.
48:28
Speaker 1: No wonder she got up and left the room. No
48:32
Speaker 1: wonder the judge recoiled. Good luck with that, coles Rude.
48:36
Speaker 1: When you've got a trial judge, I don't mean an
48:39
Speaker 1: appellate judge. I don't mean an administrative judge. I don't
48:42
Speaker 1: mean to probate judge who just sits on the bench
48:45
Speaker 1: and reads and talks. I mean a trial judge that
48:49
Speaker 1: has seen it all. When that judge recoils, coles Rude,
48:53
Speaker 1: the defense has a problem.
48:56
Speaker 10: Well, you know, let's look at what happened in context.
49:00
Speaker 10: You know, there was an issue with the video and
49:03
Speaker 10: the judge indicated he was not going to allow it.
49:07
Speaker 10: And it wasn't because it.
49:09
Speaker 11: Was so gory, which it obviously is.
49:12
Speaker 10: It's because it had been spliced and put together and
49:16
Speaker 10: we've all seen it happen before.
49:17
Speaker 11: Where a second clip goes viral on SOLI.
49:20
Speaker 1: That's just what was claimed. We don't know that it
49:22
Speaker 1: was spliced and put together, and we don't know the
49:24
Speaker 1: origin of some of the video, but it is public video.
49:27
Speaker 1: That's what the prosecution is arguing. I know where you're going.
49:31
Speaker 1: You're claiming that the defense cannot authenticate the video and
49:34
Speaker 1: therefore it should not be allowed in. But however, that's
49:37
Speaker 1: not what I asked you. That said, I'm sure I
49:40
Speaker 1: understand why you're dodging the question about how awful the
49:43
Speaker 1: video is. We wait as justice unfolds. If you know
49:49
Speaker 1: or think you know anything about the assassination of Charlie Kirk.
49:54
Speaker 1: The state is still building its case. This is just
49:56
Speaker 1: a preliminary hearing. We haven't even struck a jury yet.
50:00
Speaker 1: Dial toll Free eight hundred two two five five three
50:03
Speaker 1: two four eight hundred two two five five three two four.
50:07
Speaker 1: We remember an American hero, Deputy Sheriff Erica Serrato, Montgomery
50:12
Speaker 1: County Sheriff, Texas, just twenty four, killed in the line
50:17
Speaker 1: of duty after six years on the force, leaving behind
50:21
Speaker 1: grieving parents Letitia and Ridolpho. American hero Deputy Sheriff Erica Serrato,
50:29
Speaker 1: Thank you to our guest, but especially to you for
50:31
Speaker 1: being with us. Nancy Grave is signing off for tonight,
50:33
Speaker 1: but I'll see tomorrow night, and until then, good night friend,