Latest / Glovisor Podcast / Ep. 47: The Wealth Mistake That Can Destroy Your Family Legacy - Sandy Pollack

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Ep. 47: The Wealth Mistake That Can Destroy Your Family Legacy - Sandy Pollack · Glovisor Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: But everyone talks about building wealth, almost no one talks
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: about protecting the values that built it. This episode exposes
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: the part of legacy planning most families overlook. Welcome to
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: the Go Advisor podcast, where we explore business growth, communication
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: and personal development through real conversations with people that make
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: an impact. Our guest is the founder of Trimerian Advisory Group,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: a firm dedicated to values based legacy planning that looks
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: beyond traditional business and estate strategies. Her work centers on
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: understanding the unique dynamics, priorities, and long term vision of
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: families before addressing the financial structures behind them. As principal
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  Speaker 1: and lead financial advisor, she's built multi generational relationships by
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: focusing on what clients want and why it matters. She
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: holds credentials as a family enterprise advisor, Trust and Estate practitioner,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Certified financial planner in Charter Life. Underwriter Love Isser welcomes
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  Speaker 1: Sandy Pallar.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Joe. It is a pleasure to be here
• 1:10
  Speaker 2: with you today.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Let's begin. Please share with us a little bit more.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: What you do we.
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  Speaker 2: Work with family, business, enterprise, multi generational, and what I
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: believe we do is we help business owners make wise
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: decisions to protect and transition their wealth in a meaningful
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: way so that they end up leaving a legacy that's
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: not a legacy of lawyers.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: So what inspire you to pursue this path?
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: Well, many years ago, when I graduated mcguil University, a
• 1:44
  Speaker 2: gentleman who was coaching me and squash suggested that I
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: go into the insurance business. And I thought he was
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  Speaker 2: a little crazy because the last thing I wanted to
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  Speaker 2: do was talk about death. And quite frankly, she was
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: an incredible human being and had a lot of experience
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: in the estate planning. So interviewed various firms that started
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: originally in Montreal and realized that planning was more than
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: just about death. It was really about life, and it
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: was about what was the purpose of one's wealth. And
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: so whereas originally I started solely in the insurance industry,
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  Speaker 2: I kept seeing that there was a lot more to
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: planning than just looking at solving a tacks issue with
• 2:26
  Speaker 2: life insurance. It was really trying to understand the history
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: of someone's wealth, the history of a business, the grit,
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: the failures, the stories, the hopes, the dreams that they had,
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: because quite often you have a lot of entrepreneurs that
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: they started business with the sole intention of putting food
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: on the table. Jo, that's it. And they fail, and
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: they keep trying and they keep trying, and then over
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: time it grows into something that more often than not
• 2:53
  Speaker 2: exceeds their expectations. And it's beyond financial security, it's really
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: about financial independence. And then they realized that they have
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: access because there's only so much you can eat. There's
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: only so much of a life where yes, you might
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: have you might be a car person or a cottage
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: person or a boat person. But they realize that, geez,
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  Speaker 2: I've got a lot more that's going to extend beyond
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  Speaker 2: my lifetime, and how do I take care of this?
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  Speaker 2: And the first thing that comes up as well, there's taxes,
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: and how do you plan for a state taxes? But
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  Speaker 2: I say, let's go a little bit deeper than a
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  Speaker 2: state taxes because I have seen the most incredible estate
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  Speaker 2: tax plans with trusts and trustees. And yet a family
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  Speaker 2: ends up seeing each other and there ends up being fighting,
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  Speaker 2: and you'll have inheritors that are unexpected unexpectedly receive this
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  Speaker 2: enormous amount of money that they've never been taught about
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  Speaker 2: how to manage it. They don't know the history of it,
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  Speaker 2: they don't know the stories behind it, and so it
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  Speaker 2: can almost be like a creator that's landed in their
• 3:55
  Speaker 2: backyard and they're supposed to do something with it. And
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  Speaker 2: I felt that there had to be more to planning
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  Speaker 2: than that. And so, over many years of seeing some
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  Speaker 2: of the destructions, some plans working, many not, I decided
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: to take a different approach to my practice, and that
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  Speaker 2: was dealing with family business transition and getting families more
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  Speaker 2: involved and I would say unwrapping what they had because
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  Speaker 2: quite often in the world today it's rude to talk
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  Speaker 2: about money. I mean, we have these things called money
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  Speaker 2: scripts and depending on how we grew up, did we
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  Speaker 2: grow up with money, did we grow up without money,
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  Speaker 2: did our parents argue about bills? Did our parents not
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  Speaker 2: say anything? Really ends up impacting someone's relationship with their
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  Speaker 2: own career, their own business, their own relationship with money,
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  Speaker 2: and more often than not, it can be very unhealthy.
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  Speaker 2: And yet money is what makes the world go round.
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  Speaker 2: It's what we use to buy groceries, to fill up
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  Speaker 2: fuel in our car. And so we transitioned our practice
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  Speaker 2: into continuing estate planning, but also focusing on multi generational wealth,
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  Speaker 2: multi generational family business succession so that the person that
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  Speaker 2: built it can have more clarity, have more comfort, and
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  Speaker 2: also have more meaning in what he created, so that
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  Speaker 2: he doesn't leave his family a mess.
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  Speaker 1: Who is the person that should be reaching out to you?
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  Speaker 2: I would say that it would be someone who has
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  Speaker 2: a successful business a minimum of five years old minimum,
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  Speaker 2: because they've done the trials and the tribulations and hopefully
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: they're still in business. They start thinking about what are
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: they going to do with this and it could be
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: even ten or fifteen years that they've been managing this business.
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  Speaker 2: They may have children involved, they may not. They're starting
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  Speaker 2: to think about succession. Do I want to keep going
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  Speaker 2: till I'm eighty years old? What if something happens to me?
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  Speaker 2: What if I get hit by a mac truck? How
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  Speaker 2: will this business continue without me? And I think for
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: the ideal client for our group, it's someone that loves
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: money and loves people and really cares about something that
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  Speaker 2: they've built, and they wanted to transcend and mitigate any
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: kind of risk possible.
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  Speaker 1: I like the statement that you mentioned. It says people
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  Speaker 1: with excess, you have extra more because very often I
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  Speaker 1: think that when we look at money, we look at
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: it as a big picture and then we own it
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  Speaker 1: all and we have it all and that's all there's
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: to it. But as you mentioned, there's only so much tikedy,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: there's only so many boat chicken purchase. So I love
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: that because it's so true, because I think at that moment,
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  Speaker 1: once you put into that context, you start to think, Wow,
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  Speaker 1: there is more and beyond that that I should be considering.
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: Do you think that most clients that come to you
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: are coming to you too late?
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  Speaker 2: Don't know. I think it depends on where that person
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  Speaker 2: is at financially. It astounds me. The number of very
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: successful entrepreneurial families that don't the founders doesn't have a
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: will or the will hasn't been up dated, it astounds me.
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  Speaker 2: And all that ends up happening is things change, Like
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: when you first start your business to when your business
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: is five years old to ten to fifteen to twenty,
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  Speaker 2: you have different It could expand there could be different divisions,
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: particularly with family business. They could own property, right they
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: have real estate. Then they have one business. They might
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: decide to make horizontal changes and have another business or
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: vertical marketing. So it ends up being multi dimensional. And
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  Speaker 2: I think that there's never a perfect time to say
• 7:32
  Speaker 2: I'm ready, it's time to plan. I think it's asking.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, I would look at this as a question,
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  Speaker 2: when's the best time to plan to treat? Is? When's
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: the best time to plan? And I'll ask you, guess
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: when's the best time to plan to.
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: Treat Joe twenty years ago?
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  Speaker 2: And if not today? So sometimes you just have to
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  Speaker 2: start and have the courage to say, you know what,
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  Speaker 2: maybe some of the decisions that I've made five years
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: ago or ten years ago aren't relevant, aren't sustainable. Maybe
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: I have another spouse and all of a sudden my worlds,
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: I have an updated and it's still leaving certain things
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: to my ex. Or maybe after twenty years I have
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: a second family, You have an idea and an I
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: do again. And truly, when you have these changes in
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  Speaker 2: your life, are the big signs to say, let's kind
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  Speaker 2: of open up our planning and make sure things are
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  Speaker 2: still relevant and sustainable based on the client's values and
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: the client's vision and the client's goals and most importantly
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: the relational capital that's there, and that has to do
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: with the spouse, the children, if they have any some
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: stakeholders in their business. It could be some key people.
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  Speaker 2: So planning is one of those things that it doesn't
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  Speaker 2: hurt to open up the book of planning today, and
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  Speaker 2: that often starts with just a discovery meeting. And what
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  Speaker 2: we found is that clients usually come to us because
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  Speaker 2: they have a great accountant, they have a great lawyer,
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  Speaker 2: but they feel there's some thing missing, you know, they feel,
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  Speaker 2: I think I got it together, but there's something missing.
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  Speaker 2: And most often I find that you can have the
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  Speaker 2: best practitioners in the world, but no one really asks
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  Speaker 2: them about the history of their wealth, why they created
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  Speaker 2: what they did, how they feel about their family, how
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  Speaker 2: they feel about their kids. Are are they prepared? Are
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: their children prepared? And if they're not, what can they
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  Speaker 2: explore to create stronger relationships in the family. Because money
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  Speaker 2: can also be a tool that if you don't plan properly,
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  Speaker 2: particularly with your wealth, it can actually make your family
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  Speaker 2: more become more a part and distance because we try
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: to give our fit our kids opportunities, so they end
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  Speaker 2: up going out of the country and they end up
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  Speaker 2: going to another state and all of a sudden, this closeness.
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  Speaker 2: You have to work out a little harder when you
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  Speaker 2: have wealth than when you don't have.
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  Speaker 1: If one of our listeners wanted to work with you,
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  Speaker 1: what would that need look like?
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  Speaker 2: Well, if anyone wants to work with us, we have
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  Speaker 2: what's called an initial meeting to see we're the right
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  Speaker 2: fit because we may not be the right fit for
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: everyone and why did they reach out? And sometimes I'm
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: not the right fit and we can refer them to
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  Speaker 2: other advisors if we determine in that initial meeting that
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: we are the right fit, and we go through our process.
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  Speaker 2: Step one is discovery, and the discovery process is one
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  Speaker 2: where we spend a lot of time asking i would
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  Speaker 2: say a lot of open ended questions understanding their journey
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  Speaker 2: from how they grew up to how they built their
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  Speaker 2: business to why to where it's at today, to how
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  Speaker 2: they feel some of the challenges along the way, and
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  Speaker 2: what are their hopes and dreams for themselves and their families.
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  Speaker 2: And also during discovery we get all the stuff yet
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: the wills financial statement structures. We get all that but
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: that we don't even broach in the discovery meeting. The
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: discovery meeting is more qualitative and the quantitative information follows
• 11:02
  Speaker 2: once we've gone through the discovery meeting, and sometimes it's
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: two or three. And if it's a family, we'll have
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  Speaker 2: a meeting with each member of the family, each of
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  Speaker 2: the stakeholders, and that might be children that are active
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  Speaker 2: in the business, children that aren't, which is very important,
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  Speaker 2: the spouse. And I was at a conference the other
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: week and someone talked to mention something called the silent
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: asset class, which is the spouse and how important that
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  Speaker 2: silent asset class is. And it's so important to hear
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: their thoughts because they have a different lens than let's say,
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: the business owner that's involved in the day to day
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  Speaker 2: running of the business. And more often than not, I
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  Speaker 2: call that the spouse the CEO, the chief emotional officer.
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  Speaker 2: And the brain is a very funny thing, Joe, because
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: it doesn't necessarily make decisions. If you have a logical
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: decision and you're emotional, Trump's logic every single time. I
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: don't know why, but that is just how our brain
• 12:05
  Speaker 2: works with this little thing called an amigdala. And I
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  Speaker 2: think it's important to understand that the stakeholders aren't necessarily
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: those that are involved in the family business. It's the family,
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: and what constitutes the family depends on the size of
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: the family business enterprise, but understanding what's keeping them awake
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: at night, and there's a lot keeping them awake at night.
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  Speaker 2: So once we go through discovery and again it could
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: be interviewing all family members, all stakeholders, we come up
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: with a report and in the report we come up
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: with what are the holes in their planning and some
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: possible recommendations to further explore. And some of that could
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: be family meetings, looking at family governance, shareholder agreements, are
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: those properly funded financial literacy for their children. It stands
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: me how many people in today's work world are being
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: barraged with misinformation. I had one Generation three client say
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: to me, well, no, I don't pay the balances off
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: my credit card statement, because isn't that a way to
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: get a better credit rating? So I only pay the
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: minimum And there he was paying twenty seven percent interest
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: of visa, thinking he was doing a good thing, until
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: I explained to him how you know the purpose of
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: a credit card, how it works, how the bank gets paid.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: And after that meeting, it was and it wasn't that
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: this person didn't have the money in their account. They
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: had the money in their account. They just thought that
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: was good financial planning, and we were able to educate
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: that individual so that all of a sudden he became
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: a little more savvy when it came to you know,
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: financial fluency. So they are all different avenues, but the
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: real key of everything is truly taking the time to
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  Speaker 2: unders stand the client's values, their vision, and their goals
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: for themselves as well as their family and their business.
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  Speaker 1: It sounds like a very comprehensive discovery process. Would you
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: be able to share with us a success story.
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  Speaker 2: Well, I had a situation of two brothers and a
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  Speaker 2: brother in law and no sorry, two brothers and two
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  Speaker 2: brother in laws. It started a business together and it
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  Speaker 2: was very successful, and they had seven children actually active
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  Speaker 2: in the business, and they had no insurance, they had
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: no shareholder agreement. They were looking at family business transition.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: Their children are all in their twenties, very actively engaged,
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: and didn't even have wills. So we did some work.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: We were able to secure appropriate life insurance for them.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: It took many follow ups for them to finally get
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: their wills in order. And this again is in North America,
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: and unfortunately, one of them was on vacation in France
• 15:07
  Speaker 2: and had brain aneurysm and died, and all of a sudden,
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: everybody was scrambling. Before that person died, we were starting
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: to meet with the next generation generation, to the rising generation,
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: to establish what we called some governance, like how are
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: we going to work together? And the four brothers said, well, listen,
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: we had a secret sauce. And I said, well what
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: was your secret sauce? And what they shared with me,
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: which was so unique, was that they said, in another
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: culture they had a blind eye. We'll tell me more.
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: We don't look at what everybody each of us has.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: We all work in tandem together, and what one person
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: chooses to do with their income or their profits is
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: we don't really care about that. We have complete trust.
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: Everything is equal. So there was never any There was
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: never any jealousy or envying. I said, so all these children,
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: do you think that could happen that they're just like you?
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: And they both started laughing and they said, of course not,
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: because they're all so different, right, And so I said,
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: so how are they going to work together? And we
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: brought up the idea of governance, and so we had
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: many meetings with this rising generation as to how they
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: felt about their dads. You know, what do they think
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: over their strengths, what did they think the weaknesses were
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: of their fathers, you know, and what was the vision
• 16:27
  Speaker 2: that they had for this family business that was growing.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: And we spent many like about a meeting a month
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: where they were able to unpack. We even discussed things
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: like conflicts and let's how do you feel about conflicts?
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  Speaker 2: And they were in some said oh my god, I
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: avoid it. We talked about well, was it a people
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: conflict issue or was it like an issue, like just
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: an issue of a conflict. Anyways, over time we were
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: able to actually start creating family business rules, which is governance,
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: how they would handle things of certain scenarios, what the
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: family mission statement was, what would be there, what I
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: would call their compass, so that if anybody veered off,
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: what was the what was baked into the family governance
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: that everyone could go to if they did have a question.
• 17:15
  Speaker 2: And we talked about things ranging from what if one
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: of these generation too has a relationship with an employee,
• 17:22
  Speaker 2: is that okay, well let's talk about it. Should that
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: be that it's like off off the map? And anyways,
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: we had a lot of different conversations and came up
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: with a governance plan that everyone was committed to, that
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: everyone felt they were a part of. And I think
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: that's the other thing that we forget is when we're
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: talking about succession planning and estate planning, it's not about
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: for your kids or to your kids, but sometimes it's
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: about with your children so that they are empowered and
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: part of that process. And in this case, generation too
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: is running the business has grown the big business tremendously.
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: They have this family business rules that's basically tailored to
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: that particular family, and are flourishing and are flourishing, and
• 18:11
  Speaker 2: I think that that was very rewarding to see. But
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: it took a lot of work, a lot of questions,
• 18:18
  Speaker 2: a lot of appreciative inquiry, because it's not about what
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: a family is doing wrong, it's what is a family
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: doing right? And how can we take those strengths and
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: really deploy them in a way that will create a
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: bigger future for them? And all that the wealth does,
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: more often than not show what I think, in my
• 18:39
  Speaker 2: personal and humble opinion, is well, it just softens the
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: edges of life. It's all that's supposed to do. And
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: it's so important that people have purpose, that people develop
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: purpose and confidence and clarity because being part of a
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: family that has multi generational wealth, whether it's two, three, four,
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: fifth generation, there's a lot of stresses and a lot
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: of things that people are not aware of. And they think, oh,
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: you're so lucky because you're born into this family, but
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: they are living under a shadow, and usually it's a
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: shadow of dad, who is so successful, so that if
• 19:16
  Speaker 2: you're able to continue that, they'll say, oh, you only
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: did that because of your father. And if they don't, well,
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: you only fail because of you. And they don't understand
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: that that family wealth and family transition in a business
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: is very complex and they need to be supportive in
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: a way that they can be the best version of
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: themselves but also have purpose. And it doesn't mean that
• 19:40
  Speaker 2: they have to stay in a family business either. Then
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: maybe their pursuit is working in a nonprofit or managing
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: a foundation that the family has created. But I think
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: we do not give enough compassion and empathy to multi
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: generational wealth because there are so many different angles and
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: pressures that they face unknowingly. Who's their friend? Is it
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: because they have this last name or is it because
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: it's really who they are? So I find that when
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: you're planning, and in many aspects Generation one, generation two,
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: generation three, it's really important that their advisors understand that
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: each individual in a family has their own unique personality
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: and some of them need the support, maybe it's coaching,
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: maybe it's financial fluency, planning, whatever, so that they are
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: empowered to make decisions and be the best version of
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: themselves so that they can make a difference in the world.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: If listeners remember only one thing from today's conversation, what
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: do you hope that message.
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: Is, be courageous to communicate with your children about your history,
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: about your failures, about money in a way that is
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: paralleled to the value system that has brought you to
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: where you are today. And have the courage to open
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: up that conversation not based on numbers, but based on stories.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: That's great advice. So, Sandy, where can our audience connect
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: with you and learn more about your work and continue
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: this conversation.
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: Well, I wrote a book Jill called Don't Leave a Mess,
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: How to Disaster Proof your Family Legacy, which you can
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: get on Amazon, or you can go on www. Dot
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: Don't Leave a Mess dot CA, which is our website
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: that will take you to Amazon wherever you are in
• 21:38
  Speaker 2: the world. In Canada and US and beyond as well
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: as there are some articles and podcasts about planning and
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: how planning doesn't have to be like going for a
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: root canal. It can actually be something that can bring
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: families together. And I hope that that is my drift
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: to the world. Was was this book which is available
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: as well in audio.
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: I love the title. That was fantastic. So Sandy, thank
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: you so much for joining us.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: It has been a true delight show. I'm trying to
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: get this message out because I feel very strongly that
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: people that have access wealth it is their responsibility to
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: leave a legacy of love and not a legacy of lawyers.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: And with that, I say thank you very much for
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: inviting me.
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: You're welcome. Thanks everyone for listening. If this episode inspire you,
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: share it with someone who needs it, and don't forget
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: to follow the Globe Visor podcast for more conversations that
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: make an impact. Till the next time.