Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #99: Norbert Elliott-Purdue University

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#99: Norbert Elliott-Purdue University · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

0:05
Welcome to the Orthotics connections podcast.
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I'm your host Mike Cunningham national sales manager for Gil
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Athletics. Our goal today is to connect you
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with coaches, from around the world, to learn their Journey.
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Share their stories, and just figure out who they are and what
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they're all about. So, without further Ado, let's
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get on and find out what today's guest has in store for us.
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And thanks again for joining us here on the yellow FedEx track
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and field connections podcast super excited about today's
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guest. I want to hop right into this
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because I'm just find it. So fascinating this individual
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please help me. Welcome the head coach of Purdue
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University, mr. Norbert Elliot, no word.
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How are you sir? I'm doing good.
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Glad to be here. Thank you for inviting me.
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Absolutely. Now, when we're recording this,
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you're coming off of a fun trip in Jacksonville University
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Jacksonville. Florida, I should say University
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of North Florida and this is going to be the the weirdest
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question for someone who just came from Jacksonville.
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Have you warmed up yet? You're exactly right.
1:06
You know, the Big Ten, you know, trying to avoid, you know, as
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the spread of covid decided to compete in its own footprint.
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So all of the schools, we plan this thing months ahead to make
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a trip down south to get some good warm weather, competition
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and some good performances, lo and behold Mother Nature was not
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in on that meeting and I guess it was the worst weather in
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months of Jacksonville. It was cold so cold.
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So we've learned mother Nature is not a big tin fan is what I'm
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hearing. Yeah.
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How's that going? So indoor was completely Big.
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Ten competition until obviously you got to ncaa's and Outdoors
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is going that same way, all big 10 competition, you know, you've
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coached for a long time which were going to learn more about
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your journey today. How is that have you had to
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switch? I don't know if necessarily
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training or have you had to do anything differently going to a
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conference only schedule? No, not necessarily I'm sure
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there's a bit of gamesmanship going on with some of the other
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programs but you know, iron sharpens iron.
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And, you know, we look forward to just competing with, you
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know, all of the schools in the Big Ten and keeping within our
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training principles, you know, ultimately the main goal is, you
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know, Big Ten outdoor championships, the NCAA first
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round and the final round of the NCAA, so that's all gold.
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And so although it would be fun to go against, you know, some of
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the other conferences and Some of the bigger meets another
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Florida, relays the Texas relays but, you know, it is what it is.
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We've got to follow those mandates and so it's all right.
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I mean, the good news is you're in the Big Ten, right?
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I mean, so the competition should not be scarce at all.
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Like there's great sprinters jumpers distance.
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I mean I don't know about an event that's week in the Big
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Ten. You're exactly right.
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You're exactly right in. And you know, you see the
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Sprints now really turned the corner and they're very very
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competitive throws. Distances jumps of always been
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good. So, you're right.
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I mean it's a power five conference and it's a powerful
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conference. Absolutely.
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We're excited. You know, you're going to be
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here in my town champagne in May, that's fun that we.
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I remember they hosted about 10 years ago.
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Roughly and what an amazing conference.
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I love it. So I'm excited to have him here
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on their on, their new facility here in Champaign.
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You have heard a whole lot about it.
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I've seen it and so that would give us a good chance to view
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and preview the facility before the Big Ten Championship.
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So look, And forward to that. That's awesome.
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We can't wait to have you over. So, let's find out how you got
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to the Big Ten, and I got to Purdue and all that, let's take
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a step back, maybe start, tell us where track became a part of
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your life, maybe, as an athlete. I'm not sure if you're an
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athlete or not. Tell us how track got started
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for you. Yeah.
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I tell you you know the one good thing about our sport is and you
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know I some of the older senior coaches and I miss still a and I
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Wonder Man how is it? You still have the energy but
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now I know why. You know, the more you hang
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around young people, the more you feel numb, you forget how
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truly long you been in the sport, you forgot or how old you
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are. And, you know, I'm getting a
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little long in the tooth myself, you know.
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I never use have this bit of great.
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Now, I'm getting some gray underneath the chin, so I've
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been coaching more than 30 years, which is incredible.
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I would not have guessed. I mean, I know you've been
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around because you when I was coaching you were coaching and,
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but At 30 years. That's exactly right.
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Yeah, just truly incredible. You know, Mi Smith, you know, my
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400 and 800 me to coach you know, he's in his 30s.
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And yeah you he was competing with some of my athletes at the
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University of Tennessee. So yeah, it's been a long time,
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you know I first got started. Mike, I'm originally from Nassau
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Bahamas. I'm a dual citizen been here,
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you know, way more years. And the u.s. that I've been in
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the Bahamas in Nassau Bahamas I got started this running, the
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streets barefooted on the islands you know I'm from a
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family of eight and my cousin and I we enjoyed racing in the
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streets. We would just have competitions
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with other kids in the neighborhood.
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You know of course growing up in the bombs, you do not want to be
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inside, you know, there weren't we didn't have video games and
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that sort of stuff. I will fun and activity was, you
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know, playing Cricket than And playing soccer and just wasting
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in the streets. Did you as a kid you really play
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cricket? Yeah.
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It's like cooking. Yeah.
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So, give me the 32nd. How do you play that game?
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I've seen that, you know, the bowler right?
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Or the picture? Yeah.
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That's in the three sticks or something behind.
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That's all I know. Well, now you see, that's,
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that's the official version of cricket.
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Okay. We played Island Cricket so we
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had any piece of backstop, okay? Any piece of board is plywood
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and any Survive, you know, wouldn't you know, piece of?
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I don't know carpentry board, right?
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And we played with a tennis ball or any ball.
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We had the objective is to protect that Wicked, that board
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behind you. And if the Bola hit that board
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behind you, you are out. And so your objective, your goal
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was to just hit the ball away, hit it as far as you can and run
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back and forth to score points. So it's a bit was an island
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version of poor man's the island, boys, poor Man Cricket
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in the streets will see any grass.
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Feel you can find, I didn't know that the objective was to
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protect that what he called you called a wicked, or what he
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called, Mickey Mickey. I didn't know that was, I
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thought it was more like a base, like baseball, like, you know,
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hitting home runs hitting forgot.
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Well, you know, well, that's it to your scoring run.
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So yeah, you got the strikeout basically is for the picture to
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hit that Wicked. That's a strike on and you just
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keep batting unless you're kind of caught out as well.
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You know, yeah. So the that's the only reason I
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host this podcast is to learn about things that I have no clue
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about. So, yeah, that's a more, you
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know, right there. So you know, you hit you score
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points and you just keep scoring, you know, baseball of
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course you just, I guess three strikes and you're out and you
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know, the next battle but you can stay on and keep scoring
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until you know, somebody kind of hits that Wicked and then you're
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up. So yeah, yeah look like that
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just racing in the streets, you know, as a kid growing up.
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You know, we had a, what I would call a national hero.
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In fact, our National Stadium is named after him, Tommy Robinson,
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Thomas, Augustus Robinson, and he raced around the time of
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Bullet, Bob Hayes. And so, my cousin and I, Larry,
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you know, we all argued fought argued back and forth to be one
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wanted to be Tommy Robinson. And the other wanted to be Bob
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Hayes. Of course, you know, Tommy
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Robinson was the Hero. So both of us fought because we
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wanted to be Tommy Robinson. You know and you know so today
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I'd be Tommy and then tomorrow I'd be Bob Hayes but so yeah, I
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grew up. I grew up sprinting actually you
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know and you know ran in elementary school and you know
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when I went to high school actually gave it up, I gave it
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up and yeah, you know, just I'd go to school and then go home.
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Well, I got a call one day over the announcement, will nobody
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Elliot please, you know, meet in room.
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So and so, and I'm like, what did I do?
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I didn't do anything. What are they calling me for?
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Well lo and behold somebody kind of told on hey you know he was
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really fast in elementary school, why don't you call him
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to come run for your the high school was divided into clubs?
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You know it's a you know there was Seton Hall there was
8:55
Bernhard Leonard and alcuin and I was a signal you know, Seaton
8:59
house some Sorry. And so they lead a as soon as
9:03
you enter school year associated with with a particular group and
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my group was Seaton Seaton house.
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And, you know, we'd have intramural sports, it would be
9:14
debate. It would be drama, it would be
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track and field and Seaton house was the low score scoring house
9:22
and they needed someone to, you know, to help out.
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And so really, and truthfully. If it wasn't for this gentleman,
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who remember that, I ran in high school, I wouldn't be Here I am
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today and so you know from running for my house to house
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the track and field coach. You know the P director of the
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athletic director who's also tracking feel help coach
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discovered me in this guy can run and it sort of went on from
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there. You know I remember what yeah,
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what was the culture? So like in high school in
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America, you know we have a team and they compete against other
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high schools in their area and then eventually qualify to a
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state championship. Pionship.
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What's the culture? Like in the Bahamas for that is
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their city meets High School is there meets against other
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company the houses? Now you're exactly right.
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I can tell you this looking back at it, the athletic director
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who's also the track and field coach coach used the intramural
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inter-house competition as is recruiting base.
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And so he was able to discover athletes from just intramural
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basically from intro house competition.
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The alcuin Seaton, Brendan Leonard house competing against
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each other and he was able to recruit athletes.
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So he discovered me found me out and invited me to join the team,
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the track team and he was, you know, I give credit to Mark the
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Lundy was innovated. He was, you know, sort of
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Cutting Edge at the time. You know, Martin actually had a
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fall conditioning phase and pre-competition phase and all
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that. And you really invested a lot of
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time. Time and effort and consequently
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my high school state augustin's college back in the Bahamas,
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still, to this day is a Powerhouse, not only in
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academics, but in sports as well.
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Very, very good sporting school. What was the so, you know, the
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Bahamas. Now, when I think of the
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Bahamas, you know, there are always several athletes that
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are, you know, Olympic Olympic medalists.
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Before we hit record, we talked about lavance, Sands.
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And, you know, I think is that whereas Bahamas were Debbie
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Ferguson's from That's exactly right in.
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There's always, you know, like you can count on a team from the
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Bahamas in the finals of the relays and things like that.
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What was the culture of track and field in the Bahamas?
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At that time was it was track as important as other sports.
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You know, what's really interesting?
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I remember as a kid growing up baseball and and I was in my
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mind the number one sport, but it sort of fizzled, you know,
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for whatever reason, you know, they had sort of internal
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struggles, you know, track and field was always well organized,
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you know, well structured, but and it was popular, but I would
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like to say that baseball and perhaps basketball with the most
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important Sports, you know. But, you know, throughout the
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years No, do you need to just take the stability of the
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organization, you know? And, and really, really good
12:22
structure track and field, you know, it's been able to sort of
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surpass, those two sports. You know, basketball course is
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always popular. But, you know, I don't know if
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you know this, but Michael Thompson he played for
12:35
Minnesota, the Minnesota Gophers.
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He was the number one draft pick back in the late 70s.
12:40
You know, drafted by Portland Trail, Blazers ended up playing
12:43
for Los Angeles Lakers for many years and A championship.
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And, you know, of course, he and Magic Johnson became really,
12:51
really good friends. And so, you know, he was our
12:56
hero much it is that Michael Thompson.
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Probably go home and run to be prime minister me easy.
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Of course you know, and we all know about his son play
13:05
Thompson. Yeah, he's asked on as well, you
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know? But yeah.
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So basketball was big. Baseball was big.
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But you know, whatever reason track and I just was able to
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turn the corner and I would, I would all honestly say you do to
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just a really good stable, organization Bahamas, amateur
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Athletic Association, you know, for whatever reason, they were
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able to with minimal funding, were able to get it done, you
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know, to get it done. And you got to give credit to
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some of the coaches to, you know, many of whom were, you
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know, college US based athletes. That sort of, went back home to
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continue. To contribute to trying to get
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kids off the island. You know, driving thing has a
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unique sport for the Bahamas, you know.
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You don't really need a whole lot.
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You know, any grass at the time when I was growing up, we really
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had just one track to this day. We pretty much just, just out
14:03
the one tribal, oh, wait. Now have the National Stadium
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and when I was growing up, we had that one track.
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It was a send the track and, you know, we made do with what we
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had. And, you know, like I said, said
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those coaches that were athletes back in.
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They graduated went back home and started, you know, this club
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system and you know, so the club system was has been around for a
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very long time and it's really competitive.
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And, and to this day still is competitive.
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And so, you know, I got to give a plug at this time for the
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triple jump, you know? Oh yeah, whatever reason you
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know. You probably know this Mike
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yourself but we've had tremendous success in the triple
14:51
jump in the Bahamas. I myself was a triple jumper and
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if I could kind of go back historically, it's sort of
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started with. I hope folks, you know, would
15:00
get online and maybe correct me but the one I remember.
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Was dr. Timmy bear being our first to
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really sort of famous triple jump, dr.
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Jimmy Barrett went to USC. And then In fact, our former
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prime minister. He was also a triple jump
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himself Perry Christie, he was a triple jump.
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Let's see, who else many, many, many.
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You know what I love about that? The triple jump is one of the
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many events but you know, definitely in excelled events in
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the Bahamas, right? Is, you know, it's well, it's
15:38
very technical for one right? But sometimes it's the the
15:41
boogeyman event. Like we have excuses of like
15:44
yeah I can't coach the triple jump.
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Well, because of, you know, and then list the excuses, so I love
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that, you know, under resource place.
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Like the Bahamas, makes this like pretty technical events.
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Yeah, they're Superior event. I love that s.
15:59
It's a little bit of that, like no excuses type of attitude.
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So, yeah, we don't have tracks, you know, a lot of tracks.
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We do have a lot of sand pit, you know, to practice, and plyo
16:08
boxes and stuff. We just, you just get it done.
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Yeah, that's exactly right. And, I guess successfully breed
16:13
success, you know? And so that line of great
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trouble Jumping just went on and on and on Phil Reubens, Steve.
16:21
Hannah, and, of course, you know, our first medalist at the
16:25
global state is Frank rotifer. Frank wrote about getting a
16:28
bronze medal in the 1992 Olympic Games in Barcelona, Spain, I was
16:32
a member of that, it was three of us.
16:34
Myself Wendell Lawrence, who was actually a boys at stake jumper
16:38
and self and myself. I Reptile attended at that time
16:43
University of Texas El Paso Utah.
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But Frank On the global stage sort of set, the you know, was
16:49
first medalist and sort of a Trailblazer for the success of
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you know the trouble that the triple jump is have had.
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And you know and I let me not be I'd be remiss if I didn't
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mention some of the other jumpers you know in the female
17:06
stages. Well Chanel Ferguson is been a
17:08
great great jumper and Commonwealth medalist
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Commonwealth, I believe record. Hold, if I'm not mistaken, the
17:14
Daphne sound is great. Long jumper. / she jumped at
17:18
LSU, Steve, Hannah. Steve Hannah, two-time NCAA
17:22
Champion jumped for Texas. El Paso.
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My alma. Mater fact.
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Steve recruited me to El Paso, Texas, to YouTube and of course,
17:30
leave an stands. Lot of Rolando green.
17:34
We talked about him. Yeah, that's right.
17:36
And I'm solid jumping around but they've been so many junk.
17:39
Eugene, green, when the Lawrence Hudson Higgins.
17:43
Patterson, Johnson, all of these.
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Great, great, great Jumpers in, We got a jumper here.
17:47
My school right now, tomato green, who just finished the
17:53
indoor championships, finishing in seventh place.
17:57
So, whatever reason, triple jump has been one of those events.
18:00
We've had a lot of success in me.
18:02
Well, you mentioned, you were fast as a kid and that one guy
18:05
remembered that you are fast. So he was like, Hey you know we
18:07
got to get this guy back on the track team how did you come to
18:10
Triple jumping and how did that take you from?
18:13
You talked about earlier about getting off the island coming to
18:15
the states? For maybe college education and
18:18
college track opportunities. How did you get a triple jump,
18:21
and how did that springboard, you terrible pun over to you tip
18:26
that you mentioned? Yeah, so I thought I was a
18:29
sperm, you know, like I said, I'd run in the streets but we
18:32
had an intramural sports and I got beat and so I wasn't chosen
18:37
to represent my school in that event.
18:39
Okay? Oops.
18:41
Oops, they needed somebody my house eating house needed
18:45
someone to do. The With John.
18:47
And so the leader of the group leader pointed me to the triple
18:50
jump. I had no idea what the event
18:52
was. So I remember saying just go
18:55
over there, they'll show you how to do it.
18:56
And so, okay, you hop and you step and you jump and lo and
19:00
behold, not only that I win the dog on a thing but it was a
19:03
record. It was a junior boys.
19:06
Junior boys school record. I think so.
19:08
So were you just a natural or? Yeah, I guess, I guess you can
19:11
say that's hard event to be a natural in, you know, II guess
19:16
You know, I played basketball and with a little speed and
19:18
with, you know, with just the maybe explosiveness that I had
19:23
from playing basketball in the streets, of course, you know,
19:26
led to meet rocket jumping and then of course I was recruited
19:29
by the high school coach. Like I said, we have to let it
19:31
go around the Martin Lundy. Recruited me to represent my
19:36
school. Intro school.
19:38
I'm sorry inter-school competitions.
19:41
So we can never have to get up and just go competition.
19:45
Now it's a little different. You have a private school
19:48
compete against themselves and the public school and then
19:52
there's another meet with all the schools but at the time it
19:56
was public and private schools sort of competing against each
20:01
other. And so yeah, I was chosen to do
20:05
the triple jump and I also ran 400, you know.
20:09
So I was it sort of an all around, you know, long, jump,
20:11
triple jump, you know, on the relays and that sort of stuff.
20:14
Did you fall in love with the triple jump?
20:16
Like the first competition you go out and you do real well even
20:19
set a record. Was it like an automatic like,
20:21
oh, I think I found who I am. I'm a triple jumper or was it
20:25
like, okay, it's just another vent.
20:26
Let's just keep seeing what this track thing does for me, the
20:29
ladder, the ladder. You know, I wanted to be like
20:37
Tommy Robbins Diana, you know, for whatever it's worth.
20:51
You know, the field events. Just don't get the love that
20:53
they deserve especially the tropical you know, the long
20:55
triple jump is a stepbrother stepsister to the lungs, right?
20:59
And I wanted to be a sperm. Well, how did you come over?
21:05
You said you mentioned, you're a UTEP Alum.
21:07
So did you come straight over to you tap?
21:09
Or how'd you get over here? No.
21:12
So you know, of course, you know, success is 10 Those
21:16
things, it's sort of you feed off of success and I became a
21:20
triple jumper. You know, I was fortunate enough
21:22
to make the Bahamas Junior national team.
21:25
That's my first International competition in Barbados which is
21:29
the Carissa games, grifter is jr.
21:33
Age group Caribbean track and field Championship you know,
21:38
really it's an acronym curricula Caribbean, free trade
21:40
Association. I never knew the okay, I
21:43
wondered. Yeah see there's a second thing.
21:46
Can I have the boxes all these things I'm yeah.
21:48
Yeah, yeah. And of course, you know mr.
21:52
Austin Seeley is the one who is the founder of peripheral
21:56
decided, you know, why do we have spread Goodwill now
21:59
Caribbean? You know, age group competition.
22:02
That's how it began and of course it's huge.
22:04
Now it's a big International competition, big deal,
22:07
absolutely student-athletes age group student athletes and, you
22:13
know, the college coaches look forward to recruiting from that.
22:16
Those competitions. So yeah, I was able to make in
22:19
the Bahamas, Junior national team and this was in Barbados,
22:23
many moons ago 1977, you know, won the triple jump.
22:28
I I was fortunate enough, not only to win, but, you know, set
22:31
the age group Caribbean record at the time and still looking
22:34
over at the sprinters like the looking over at his friends just
22:37
do that. Hell yeah. and so, you know, to
22:47
be honest with you, I I was first recruited by John moon at
22:53
Seton Hall. Yeah.
22:55
Red John Moon. She's a legendary because I went
22:58
to Catholic School, Seton Hall, being a Catholic school.
23:02
I was so excited when I, when I received my first letter from
23:06
coach Moon. Yeah, man.
23:08
That was something, you know, I then, you know, at the time, I
23:11
really didn't know what I wanted to do.
23:13
Didn't they didn't know if I wanted to go to college or not?
23:16
That wasn't in my thinking time. But, you know, you know, the
23:21
more advanced Through The Years, you know, the more you hear
23:25
people talk about college and getting scholarships and, you
23:27
know, I became very interested in that and so that that recruit
23:31
Masada fell off and then the next school that recruited me.
23:36
And I basically sort of verbally committed to was Middle
23:41
Tennessee, State University, all right, Dean Hayes, DNA's love to
23:45
know. Yeah, my codes are the time
23:47
wanted to place me in a program. Had, you know, sort of the best
23:52
coaches and I'd the time DNA was I don't know if there's anybody
23:56
better, you know, there could have been other coaches just as
23:59
good but I think he was the coordinator of the triple jump
24:02
and so I had really accepted an offer there.
24:07
But what happened was we were hosting, a junior competition in
24:10
the Bahamas and they needed me to stay back for that
24:13
competition. I think school, you know, was
24:16
going to start before those competitions would commence and
24:22
I remember calling Coach Hayes up and asking him Coach, you
24:25
know, can I just enroll in the spring?
24:30
I really want to stay back that my country needs me.
24:32
I really want to stay back and compete and of course it was
24:36
very Atius said, you know, I can't tell you not to pick your
24:39
country but there is no guarantee.
24:41
I'm going to have the scholarship.
24:43
Well, You know, sitting in this chair that I'm sitting in now.
24:47
I understand. So I stayed back competing weeks
24:50
late, I call him up. Well, my scholarship was gone.
24:53
I know what a bummer, you know. So, I just remember scrambling
24:57
trying to find a school to go to and, you know, it was, it was
25:02
nobody looking at triple jumpers at the time, of course, nobody
25:07
all the sprinters most printers. You know, staying back the
25:16
entire not fall staying back, just trying to find a school and
25:21
I'm going to throw some names out at you, you know mr.
25:24
Keith Parker who was the sort of Bahamas.
25:29
National Co one of the national coaches.
25:32
I remember him. Communicating with Victor Lopez.
25:35
Oh yeah. Now we all are Victor Lopez
25:37
know. So he communicated with Victor
25:39
and say Victor. I've got a kid, you know who's
25:41
really good jumper if you know of any school He needs to get
25:45
off the island and Victor Lopez contacted the coach at Wharton
25:50
County junior college. Yeah, see, Jason Wharton, Texas.
25:55
Yeah, Davidson re Davidson and I remember going there that, that,
25:59
that spring. So, it was the following spring
26:01
I went there. Yes, sir.
26:03
Yeah. And what was it like, you know,
26:06
we're going to learn more about this about some of the things
26:08
you've done in in general recruiting today.
26:13
Versus like it's it's so much easier today, right?
26:17
I mean, we can pick up the phone, the internet, social
26:20
media, I mean, you can Community.
26:21
It's much much easier to find athletes and for athletes to be
26:25
discovered. Sure, back when you were trying
26:29
to find a school, you know, from coach moon to coach Hayes
26:34
Victor. How, like, how did you go about
26:37
finding a school? How did they find you?
26:39
I mean, it's so so much harder back then it was so much fun.
26:43
It was, and I would almost say it was sort of, by word of
26:46
mouth. Because here, I was, you know,
26:49
the number one triple jump in the Caribbean and just sitting
26:53
on the island with no school to go to know where help which
26:57
would not happen today. Absolutely number one, triple
27:00
jumper is got a hundred letters, 100 GM's phone calls visits the
27:06
coaches. I mean they use their phone and
27:09
they're looking at the event life you know, they could be in
27:12
there. In their living room and be
27:14
watching the terrific games life.
27:15
You know, great Point, not only communication, but how would I
27:19
have even seen an orbit? Elliot, jump back then.
27:22
We didn't have a video camera in our pocket 24/7.
27:26
Now, your exact point, yeah, would have seen it on on, on a
27:29
magazine, a magazine, you know, the next month's issue of this
27:33
magazine. That's where you would have seen
27:35
just a byline, right? That's exactly right.
27:37
So it was a little difficult, very, very difficult by in a
27:40
produced by Word of Mouth, you know?
27:43
Yeah, I mean the Advent of the internet probably was maybe in
27:47
its infancy, you know, if if at all I'm talking 1977, so when I
27:56
graduated from high school so, you know, yeah, no, no, it's
28:04
totally different world. Light years difference in what
28:10
we had. So, back in the 80s to now, Now,
28:13
get out of here. Yeah, it's a letter to write a
28:15
letter. Yeah.
28:16
So you can see just by Word of Mouth mr.
28:19
Keith Parker talking to Victor Lopez and Victor talking to Ray
28:23
Davidson and that's how it began, you know, and I was, I
28:26
was so excited, you know, to go to Wharton County, junior
28:30
college, I was so excited. I want a week before classes
28:33
began because I said I needed to learn the campus right.
28:35
You know you take long Great job.
29:12
Yeah. One day like ours is not a
29:14
throws coach at Texas A&M. Yeah, the top.
29:17
Yeah. My sweetening at Wharton County
29:21
junior college so he and I hung out for the rest of that week,
29:25
just waiting for school district.
29:28
Learning the lay of the land learning, the lay of the land.
29:31
That's exactly right. That's exactly right.
29:34
That's so yeah. You know, I spent so I went to
29:39
that spring and and came by return that fall and it just
29:44
wasn't the right fit for me. You know, did you go home back
29:47
to the Caribbean and the summer her back to a NASA?
29:50
Yeah. When I went by there, some, you
29:52
did. And it came back in the fall and
29:55
I was You know, I'm going to say this, you know, online and this
30:01
is going to be broadcast, but I was heavily recruited heavily
30:03
persuaded to not return to Wharton.
30:08
You know, the following it would have been the following spring.
30:11
And so I transferred back, then you could do that I transfer
30:15
because I was a qualified and I transferred to Texas El Paso.
30:19
Yeah. Okay.
30:19
I would have so, I transferred it three years of indoors and
30:22
three years about go and I'm sorry for years of endured and
30:26
three is about Tell it to Utah, right?
30:29
Because of course, you know, at Morton, you know, there wasn't
30:33
really right. Did you did you learn about UTEP
30:37
because of your time at Wharton though?
30:39
Like, you know, no, in fact, to be honest with you I remember
30:42
Ray Davidson introducing me to perhaps the best jumps coach in
30:46
the world or one of them and I mentioned Dean Hayes with the
30:49
next one was a guy by the name of Tom to LEDs and I wanted to I
30:53
just saw my God, I just met God, you know?
30:55
I mean yeah, maybe this guy Has written a book on everything.
30:59
Yeah, jump throws, just track and field knowledge and I really
31:03
wanted to go to school there but you know so I remember as a kid
31:08
before I went to college you know just worshipping Steve
31:12
Hannah you know Steve Hannah was the NCAA champion.
31:18
In fact he was a two-time NCAA champion in the triple jump and
31:21
Steve went to Utah, okay? And so he'd go back home and
31:25
play basketball in the More time, you know, when you come
31:28
home and when his eligibility was up and you know, Steve
31:33
really recruited to turn it down.
31:36
And so that's how I ended up to the attending transferring from
31:40
barking. I'm sorry from Morton to Utah
31:44
because of Steve, Hannah, when you get to You tab, where are
31:47
you going to say academically? But what are you thinking?
31:51
Career-wise at this point, if anything at all.
31:53
I mean, let's be real Euros. Second semester, third semester.
31:56
Or college kid, who knew that you even thought about.
31:59
But was there anything thought of a coaching at all?
32:01
Or we're were you there? No, no.
32:03
Not at all. Not at all.
32:05
You know, as a kid, you know, you have these dream career.
32:10
I want to be a fireman. I want to do, is I want to do
32:12
that. Well, I just like construction
32:15
and I wanted. Yeah, I wanted to do something
32:18
in the way of construction, you know, but add another, the
32:23
academic Acumen to do that, didn't I?
32:26
Math base learned. It very very quickly.
32:29
Yeah, that's many things. You and I have in common sir.
32:33
Yeah, no no math, no way no man until I settled and you tap and
32:42
got a degree in management you know, in sort of business
32:46
management. Yeah, mix.
32:47
And so yeah you know how to really good Stellar career at
32:52
UTEP, my highest Place finish at the time.
32:56
I'm was second place, finish second.
33:00
The my condom in the triple j o G's.
33:02
Yeah. Like to tell people, I was
33:04
talking to my colleague, who was ranked the number one, traffic
33:07
jump in the world. So that's one of those were you
33:09
just unlucky? You're jumping at the same time.
33:11
He is not I first met Mike and I think it was 1981.
33:18
We competed as Junior athletes at in a meet in Colorado
33:23
Springs. So myself and a couple of Junior
33:29
athletes Bahamas. National federations flew us to
33:33
Colorado Springs. We were prepping from me in
33:38
think it was. Was it Mexico?
33:42
I believe it was in Mexico. Might not have been could have
33:44
been Dominican Republic. It was a prep meet.
33:47
And I remember meeting Mike there and I remember talking to
33:51
him, you know, he wasn't that wasn't his number one.
33:54
I can feel right. Going to go to Arkansas to play
33:57
basketball. I'm, I'm telling you clearly as
34:00
clear as daylight and of course, you know, we know the rest is
34:03
history, don't know what happened with the basketball
34:05
career, but Leo, we know what happened.
34:07
We transferred it to, as kid, he was smart.
34:10
He was like, you know, you go do that and I'll rip you and we'll
34:12
be good. That's exactly what he did.
34:14
Yeah. And tell you have Madame back
34:17
then and how was your relationship with Connelly?
34:19
Like we're you guys, adversarial friendly, you know, call me was
34:23
a very focused. Guys very, very focused.
34:26
I was able to compete against him, you know, the Collegiate
34:28
level and a couple of times in Germany I remember but you know
34:33
Connie was a very quiet guy so you know, somewhat introverted
34:37
but but you know, respected person, you know, very respected
34:42
and respectable person respected you but you know, wasn't one of
34:47
those really outgoing gregarious person.
34:50
All right. Interesting.
34:53
So you got s to him. That was one of your highest
34:55
finish which by the way. That's amazing.
34:57
I mean, it's a a no matter what event you're talking about.
35:00
If you are top 8 yeah. Oh my goodness, your one less
35:04
than 1% of the population in this world?
35:07
You're exactly right? I think just to qualify for the
35:10
NCAA National Championship, you know, whether it was, you know,
35:13
back in the 70s 80s or today, you are really a great actress.
35:20
Yeah. That's pretty well accomplished.
35:23
I don't make the distinctions like when people say especially
35:26
now and things like that because you know, the circumstances in
35:30
the 80s and 90s were different than they were in the tens and
35:33
20s. Now, you know, tracks were
35:34
different equipment, was different, a big part of in my
35:37
opinion is the I'm going to say it's the quality of education
35:42
for coaching, but what I mean, is this spread used to be much
35:46
like we talked about with recruiting, you know, if you
35:48
wanted to learn better to get better at coaching it, get
35:51
better at your craft. Laughs, you know, you'd have to
35:52
send away for these VHS tapes which, you know, our audience
35:55
right now has no clue what that is and you'd watch VHS tapes and
35:59
you know, to talk to a Tom to Les or a Dean Haze, that was
36:02
rare rare to be able to talk or listen to those people speak
36:07
their craft right now. Gosh, we can go on YouTube and
36:13
find Tom to Les 100 times and maybe that Dean.
36:16
I don't know if he's on YouTube very much but but you know,
36:18
other people who shakes nater, Etc, The ease of getting better
36:23
at your craft is tremendous. So when people say, you know,
36:26
it's so hard to make ncaa's. Now look at the results in the
36:29
80s and it's like, no, no. They were under a whole
36:31
different path back then, a whole different path.
36:34
You're exactly right. It's all right.
36:36
I mean, nowadays, you know, there's so many clinics than and
36:41
seminar that you can go to this, the Advent of the internet has
36:44
made things, you know, just so much easier to gain knowledge,
36:49
you know. And it's like you're Exactly,
36:52
right? So when I went to Utah, pie my
36:55
time at UTEP was really very interesting.
36:58
I would say tumultuous at best, I had you can look at it one of
37:05
two weeks, you know, gosh, what a terrible time you had or how
37:09
fortunate, you know, worried to have had so many coaches at
37:14
Utah. So I was recruited by John with
37:16
they'll you know who sort of started me?
37:19
You know, understanding more about the triple jump and of
37:23
course, you know, as we know today, as we see today, staffs
37:27
coaching staffs change. Well, that's staff changed.
37:31
And, you know, and then a coach Name of that path team.
37:36
I'm sorry. No, no I take that back.
37:38
Let's backtrack just a little bit yet.
37:41
No. No, I was right.
37:42
Dan path Canaan. And you know how Next Level?
37:46
Yeah, I've coached me. Yeah.
37:48
And you know, just still to this day, a great mentor.
37:52
Yeah, great friend, learn so much, you know, on The Dan and
37:57
you know, you know, to this day Dan is, you know, somewhat I
38:05
would say disappointed in me because I know Mike here's why
38:10
he wanted me to finish my eligibility and he wanted me to
38:14
join him at LSU. So after he left UTEP, he went
38:18
to LSU and wanted me to become wanted to take me on his wings
38:22
to sort of, teach me. And of course, I had marriage
38:26
and family, I'm, you know, so I think, thank you.
38:32
So anyway, that's me Let's go back.
38:34
So when that left Tom Jones May his soul rest in peace Tom Jones
38:40
came and yeah so I had I had John Vidal.
38:44
I had that I had Tom Jones, I had these three great people.
38:49
Yeah it coaches teaching me and not only that was I able to
38:54
learn jumping but you know, being a kid growing up track and
39:00
field was in my blood. I really started to enjoy the
39:03
sport of track and field. You in know.
39:05
So I'd always once again on the corner of my eyes look to see
39:10
what's going on with the Sprites.
39:12
You know, and never got that out of my system.
39:16
I was gonna ask have you fully embraced at this point.
39:19
No, no, no, still still looking at the Sprints and see what's
39:24
going on, you know, see seeing with my buddies, my teammates
39:27
doing the Springs, you know, and so but yeah, I was able to have
39:33
three really Good people, coach me Mentor me, you know, and with
39:38
those three people and you know, those are three Legends,
39:42
obviously, in many different aspects was any of their
39:47
coaching, rubbing off on you as a future career or was it still
39:51
like know when I'm done jumping? I now go into real world, like
39:55
no one's a coach. You're right.
39:59
I at the time I didn't know I wanted to coach.
40:03
I really, I really did not know. I want to coach in fact I love
40:08
the sport. I enjoyed, you know, the ability
40:10
to travel. You know, I enjoy the success
40:13
that I had but I never saw myself as being a coach, right?
40:16
So when my eligibility has ended, you know, I wanted to
40:20
continue Training, I wanted to go to the Olympic Games, you
40:25
know, one of the see, how far I could take, you know, my event.
40:30
Well, you know, try can feel is Is big in the Bahamas with but
40:37
let's face it. The infrastructure the resources
40:40
gifts to this day, just aren't there, you know, there's some
40:44
but, you know, you comparing, you know, the Bahamas to the US.
40:49
It's no comparison at all. And so I knew that, you know, if
40:52
I wanted to get the best training, you know, the best
40:56
facility, you know, from the training room, to the weight
41:00
room to, you know, all aspects of training, I needed to stay
41:04
here in the Yes. Well, you know, two ways you can
41:09
stay in the u.s., you know, you can stay illegally or you can
41:11
say legally, one of the legal ways to stay is to remain as a
41:17
student. And so that's what I did after.
41:21
I got my first degree, I went on to become a grad assistant, you
41:26
know, at at UTEP. Well, at that time Tom Jones at
41:30
the left and he went to Arizona State and then a coach By the
41:35
name of Bob kitchens came to Utah and I was fortunate enough
41:40
to be given a sort of a ga on the coast kitchen was able to
41:46
get my Master's Degree, be honest with you.
41:48
My my plan was to go, as far as I can go in my career and then
41:51
go back home, go back home. I just want to go home.
41:54
Yeah. Bahama is very rarely you know
41:57
stay in the u.s. you know II - lets you know Excess power that
42:01
want to go home. Sure.
42:02
Right. Yeah.
42:03
It's not like you're going to Laska.
42:06
Yeah, but why you get married or you can become this remain a
42:14
student. So I chose that route, got a
42:18
master's degree and so I was a ga under the coach kitchens,
42:22
right? And I tell you what, I was in
42:26
charge of cooking the jumps and the hurdles.
42:32
That's when the light bulb went off.
42:33
That's when it really it hit me. Oh my goodness.
42:37
This is I'm having so much fun teaching this event.
42:41
You know, you're explaining the man and when you see the
42:45
athletes, get what you're trying to impart to them, you know, and
42:50
you see the Improvement. I mean, the joy, the thrill,
42:54
distinct excitement, the feeling that I got from coaching?
42:59
That's when it hit me. Hey, this is truly.
43:01
You're calling that thrill that you're describing.
43:05
And if you're not watching on YouTube, if you could have seen
43:09
no Bird's face there. I mean, it's one thing to say,
43:12
the joy in the thrill, but if you could have seen the
43:14
difference in his face, you're describing something that you
43:18
have not described yet in your athleticism with the triple
43:22
jump. Yeah you know saying like
43:24
contributory role do you always had that I over to the sprinters
43:27
but you're like I was good. I got second season, I want to
43:30
represent my country but then you just described coaching the
43:35
sprinters or I'm sorry the jumpers and the hurdlers I think
43:39
you said right that you like like you knew like right then it
43:42
was, you were hooked. Yeah, yeah.
43:45
Oh my goodness. Yeah.
43:46
It was just just an exciting feeling.
43:48
I just I'm really Indescribable, you know, one of those Like
43:54
maybe a person that's a hobbyist that really enjoys, you know,
43:58
maybe tinkering with model planes or model cars or
44:01
something, they can't wait to get home from work to go back in
44:04
the garage to that. I mean, that's what it felt
44:08
like, it was just just an overwhelming feeling, you know,
44:12
just that Indescribable feeling that I got just teaching, you
44:17
know, and giving information and knowledge and then seeing those
44:21
those kids, you know, see the Result of what you've just given
44:25
them. Just come to fruition, you know?
44:28
So that's when it saw hit me, you know, inside the time I was,
44:31
I was getting a master's degree in what was it at the time?
44:35
I think was political science, you know.
44:37
That's a lot of political sign, maybe I'll go home and maybe
44:40
work and, you know, become a civil servant, you know.
44:43
I once again, I was just trying to buy time political science,
44:50
you know, I was given books to read, you know, Boring as hell.
44:55
I bet he's thinking about work out, you know, how can I get,
45:00
you know, so, sort of jumbled up for and so I switched, I
45:05
switched off I just knew I think you need to become a coach.
45:11
I switch from political science to education with sort of a
45:15
concentration in exercise science.
45:17
So I switched which master's degree.
45:20
So you know ultimately I got a master's in education with sort
45:23
of a concentration in exercise science you know.
45:26
So I knew the sport from sort of just being around it for so long
45:33
I wanted to learn how do you train people?
45:36
How does this system really work?
45:37
How do you get a person in shape?
45:39
Let's learn about you know the energy systems and training
45:43
people to get them fit and so I switched majors and I mean I
45:50
just I had a sort of a richest appetite too.
45:53
Learn. I remember during my lunch break
45:56
going to the library and just reading as much as I could
45:59
possibly read on on the science of getting an athlete, you know,
46:05
from from that point of view, you know, just growing up with
46:09
it and seeing it and being around, you sort of learn it as
46:13
an apprentice kind of kind of system.
46:16
But I wanted to learn just a little bit more.
46:18
And so that's, you know, that's what I did.
46:22
You're in your infancy. In learning how to become a
46:25
coach at this time. Were you able to look back and
46:30
the things that coach path and Coach Jones and even coaches
46:33
back home? We're having you do, did you see
46:36
them in a different light at this point?
46:38
Like, oh, now I get why they wanted me to do X Y, or Z or
46:42
were you still so infant that it was just all floodgates open
46:45
coming at, you know, know, you're exactly right.
46:47
I definitely look back and saw this is and here's what was
46:52
really interesting. Do you know when you see
46:55
commonality with training ideas and training principles, then
46:59
you know, that there's something to this, you know?
47:04
And and all those coaches with the infinite knowledge and
47:07
wisdom pretty much doing sort of the same kind of stuff.
47:11
And, you know, so you know, During the beginning of the
47:16
Season, you doing exercises and drills and doing this as sort of
47:20
a style of training, you know, and then preseason you're doing
47:23
something else during the in season two competitive, phase
47:27
you doing something. And, you know, so I began seeing
47:31
this over and even in high school, I began seeing this
47:35
system repeat itself over and over and over again, you know,
47:39
and that's pretty much how you learn, you know, just It's like
47:43
that all. But so those years of being
47:46
around, you know, all of those really great coaches.
47:51
You know, I just was able to absorb and see in a in just pick
47:56
up. You know, so many good systems.
47:59
So many good training ideas from those coaches, you know.
48:02
So what did you do with this? I mean you found almost.
48:06
We haven't said these words yet, but you feels like you know,
48:08
with the passion that you got there you found your life's
48:11
calling. Like, oh Oh, this is why I'm
48:14
here. So what did you do with it on
48:16
that path towards coaching? And where was your athleticism?
48:19
Because you were still jumping at this point?
48:22
Yeah, yeah. I was still jumping.
48:23
I remember when I was done both kitchens offering me a job too.
48:29
Normally I'd like to make an assistant coach and you know I
48:33
was just on the Twilight of finishing my career, you know?
48:37
And so I said coach thank you very much, you know.
48:41
I gladly However, I, you know, this was around the time of the
48:46
1992 Olympics. I said, coach in.
48:50
I'd like to, you know, try to make the Bahamas team, but you
48:54
know, is it okay if I continue training?
48:57
So he agreed. Okay, you know, and I knew that
49:00
after then I would try to make the Olympic team and then I'd be
49:05
done with my career. So that's exactly what I did was
49:07
able to make the Bahamas team. Like I said, most part of that
49:12
Trio. Oh of jumpers myself, Wendell
49:14
Lawrence, and Frank Rutherford who, you know, became that first
49:18
Olympic medalist for the Bahamas and sort of kick-started the
49:22
train that frame Bohemian success, you know, on the track
49:26
and on the field. And so, yeah, I know returning
49:32
from Barcelona went back to Utah and, you know, became a full
49:37
time coach so I was in 1992. I was your last meeting.
49:42
Bix. My last week was the Olympic
49:44
game. Yes dude, that's the way to do
49:46
it. Yeah, I mean seriously
49:48
everybody, you know like I'm if you know if Tom Brady and I were
49:53
friends right now I'd like Tom you just one with the new team
49:57
go out on top baby like be done Olympics to I mean that is the
50:02
unless you're going to commit to another four years, right?
50:04
I mean you know to make the next mix.
50:06
That is the way to do what a memory.
50:08
Yeah, yeah, really. Yeah.
50:11
Well you did that right. You know.
50:12
It's and by the way, full disclosure not Olympian here.
50:16
So, you know, I'm talking out my but here I'm just telling you
50:18
how in my dreams how I would have done it.
50:20
No Mike full disclosure you know it's nice to be from a small
50:23
nation. Okay?
50:25
Of spend 1,000 people. No, we are not going to take
50:30
away. We're not diminishing at all
50:32
sir. You are an Olympian?
50:34
Well, you're right. You're right, I'm out.
50:36
If you make it to the NCAA, as you are less than 1% of the
50:40
population, make it to the Olympics.
50:43
That's something else. Yeah, you were in a club of
50:47
quote-unquote, no others. Now, you live in the world
50:49
where, you know, you're friends with a lot of other people but
50:52
in the real quote unquote, real world, you go to the grocery
50:54
store today, you can go to the grocery store every day for a
50:57
year, and there will never be another Olympian that walks in,
51:00
you know, that's, that's how rare it is.
51:03
Yeah, maybe in West Lafayette because the Purdue there would
51:05
be some other Olympians but you know, saying it's not my I had
51:08
to drift that is a club. May, I ain't in that club.
51:10
I'll never be in that club, you know.
51:11
They then leave Let me spell Olympics.
51:13
So I, you know, I can't get there so you come back to UTEP
51:17
and you start coaching. I'll talk to us.
51:20
How long were you? There was the next step.
51:23
Let's start getting into the, the coaching Journey now.
51:25
So, you know, infant Korea needed to know a whole lot more.
51:31
You know, I was a sponge just this so thing up, every possible
51:35
thing I can soak up, you know, calling on Tom Jones who was at
51:40
Arizona State, you know, to get all of his charts and graphs and
51:45
that sort of stuff calling up Dan past and in this learning,
51:49
Myself. I want to take this time to
51:52
apologize to all those actors that I made mistakes on what was
52:00
I thinking? Yeah, what was I thinking?
52:03
You know because you know in a young career going to make some
52:06
mistakes, you really are, you know, and so I I learned a lot
52:10
from all of those coaches, you know, and learn what to do and
52:13
what not to do as well. You know, and see you learn both
52:15
ways, you know. And so I coach there.
52:19
Are at UTEP for three years. And you know I remember you know
52:24
Bob kitchen saying Norbert. You doing a really good job.
52:27
I can't afford to pay you know to pay you any more money.
52:30
You know at the time I had gotten married and I had my
52:33
first child and is it Norbit you know you got to try to find a
52:37
better-paying job you know? So I began looking around and
52:42
you know I was in Brookings South Dakota.
52:45
Yes. Have to go to State University
52:46
interviewing up there. Okay.
52:49
Job. And I so my school had spoken to
52:53
my wife that night and she said, hey coach kitchen said, there's
52:56
a job opening at University of Georgia.
52:59
Got to get your resume in like ASAP, right?
53:03
So, you know, I had her scrambled to get it off and I
53:07
think she was able to fax it off, you know, and I know
53:12
several days later, I was given a call, you know, to come in to
53:16
interview for the job at Utah. And University of Georgia.
53:21
Yeah. And you know, I was able to get
53:23
that job and so it was John Mitchell know when I
53:30
interviewed. I wasn't sure which position I
53:35
was interviewing for whether it would be the Sprint, store, the
53:38
jumps position. Okay.
53:39
Because Way Norton, rain or no? Yeah, eventually became the head
53:42
coach at Georgia. He wanted to give waning option
53:45
of which one he wanted to take, and I think Max Dillon was the
53:52
coach that I'd left Georgia. And Max was the Sprint coach
53:56
that I believe Wayne was a jumps coach.
53:57
But I believe Wayne decided to stay with the with the jumps.
54:02
Okay. And so, When coach became open
54:05
and I was able to get that job at the University of Georgia.
54:09
And yeah man what a what a break from you know, up to, you know
54:15
the SEC and to land a school at the prestigious, you know, such
54:21
a prestigious school at University of Georgia.
54:23
How was that was going to ask? How was that transition?
54:26
Not that UTEP was any slouch by any imagination but you know,
54:29
they were really good and I'm actually not sure what was the
54:33
status of SEC track at that point either.
54:36
Now, I know what it is today, you know, to me, it's the gold
54:38
standard. I'm also very biased and I used
54:41
to coach in the SEC. I will say anybody can argue if
54:44
they want. I still think that's he's the
54:45
best. That's just it helps my resume.
54:48
So, I'm always going to say that I would say that even back,
54:51
then, was it was the gold standard and then, yeah, I mean,
54:55
there's no question about it, you know, you know, particularly
54:57
in the Sprints and jumps, you know, it's always been and I
55:00
and, you know, it's just it has big You know.
55:05
Yeah, you know, I went there and, you know, I was a, became
55:10
the Sprint, coach coaching men, and women Springs.
55:13
How did you handle that transition?
55:15
And what I mean by that is, you know, UTEP, very familiar,
55:18
right? You went to school there, grad
55:20
work there, your coaches there. It's home away from home from
55:24
NASA that point. Now you go to Athens Georgia,
55:29
you're a little bit on your own while you certainly have a staff
55:31
there to help you but You haven't been there.
55:34
You don't know anybody you're kind of maybe learning from a
55:37
new. How did you make that
55:39
transition? What were some of the things
55:40
that you had to rewire to relearn, man?
55:44
You just use bringing back tanks right now?
55:48
No, you're right. Look II, have spent 11 years in
55:52
total, in El Paso, Texas. As a student athlete as a grad
55:59
assistant and then as an assistant coach and then leave
56:03
sort of the modernist and, you know, you load up your little
56:07
U-Haul Van. You your wife and your your one
56:10
child you driving. We drove.
56:12
I remember driving leaving. El Paso driving on I-10.
56:15
You know you Louisiana and man you know, Alabama and all the
56:20
way across Yeah, I remember no the excitement of being awarded
56:29
the job but I also remembered wait a minute.
56:32
You're going down south, you know.
56:35
Look I'm I still got a lot of Bahamas in.
56:40
You know, I've still got a lot of preconceived ideas of what
56:43
about what the south is like, but boy, was I wrong.
56:46
I mean, just just the most Pleasant most magnificent time,
56:53
the experienced in the time, I see Fentanyl in Athens Georgia
56:57
was just just memorable, very, very pleasant, you know, met
57:04
some of the nicest neighbors, some of the nicest people and
57:08
and to this day where I'm still very, very good friends.
57:11
With many of those folks that I met way back in the early 90s,
57:14
you know. So yeah, I had a good time and
57:17
for the 10 years I spent in Athens Georgia and I have
57:21
tremendous success. Fact during my time we our team
57:28
was able to put together a really good women's program and
57:33
you know, myself and Way Norton and Rob huebel was the throws
57:37
coach. You know we were able to win our
57:41
first women's SEC title. Wow, during my time.
57:45
Yeah yeah you know key in that group of course you mentioned
57:50
earlier the Ferguson. Yeah.
57:53
Debbie from the Bahamas. Also on that team was Lady.
57:57
You might know. The know.
57:58
Her name. Tonic Williams.
58:00
Yeah, we know more by Tonic Williams darling.
58:05
But, yeah, it was on that team also as a freshman and finished,
58:10
I think, fourth and four hundred, she was instrumental in
58:13
helping us win, you know, that that first SEC title, we had a
58:18
tremendous team. So now you're on that other
58:20
side. You were the haffley being
58:22
recruited up to colleges and you In the u.s. now you're coaching
58:27
at a college and recruiting the other side.
58:31
Now you're recruiting your younger use if you will that
58:34
make sense how what was recruiting?
58:36
Like in regards to that aspect domestically versus not only
58:41
internationally but specifically back in NASA.
58:44
Well you know like like any recruiting coach you're going to
58:48
go to that area to that place that you're most comfortable
58:51
with you're going to start there first.
58:53
You know, I just sort of Of a natural sort of process.
58:56
Look, you're from the Caribbean I'm from bombs, you know?
59:00
And so that's exactly where I went.
59:02
I started first, you know, and I was able to recruit tonic
59:07
Williams darling, the tonic Williams at the time, they were
59:09
Ferguson Antonio Sanders, another jumper, triple jumper
59:13
but you know, for that matter. And during my competitive years,
59:20
you know, I used to go to some other sort of the B level meets
59:24
in. And became really good friends
59:27
with a lot of the coaches and athletes in Scandinavia and, you
59:32
know, so I would use those, my contact, you know, in
59:35
Scandinavia and I was able to bring in a few athletes to
59:39
Georgia. Remember, young lady but and
59:41
Monica Ron home. Monica was instrumental in US.
59:44
Winning that SEC title. In fact, Monica, I believe one
59:48
800 and 1500 since she came from Finland.
59:51
She came along with a boyfriend, Ian McKinnon, he was A triple
59:55
jumper as well. So, you know, I was able to Just
1:00:00
use my contact you know and bring in sarki athletes to help
1:00:07
us win that first SEC title. So you're coaching the sprinters
1:00:11
and hurdlers and wanes coaching the jumps correct.
1:00:14
But you to jump. Yeah.
1:00:15
Wayne is awesome. Yeah.
1:00:17
There's no, there's not like, you know, that was a downgrade
1:00:22
like, oh, Wayne's coaching jumps.
1:00:24
We're good. Where you happy, you're at the
1:00:27
sprinters. We're now, did you find yourself
1:00:31
having an eye over to the jumpers?
1:00:32
Like, oh, that's what I used to do.
1:00:35
No, I for whatever reason I felt like, I I just felt that a level
1:00:40
of comfort. I also to be honest with you,
1:00:43
felt a level of, you know, hey, you have to be on your A game.
1:00:49
The jumps came really easy for me, you know, it really be, you
1:00:53
know, I could close my eyes. So I coach jumped, but I had to
1:00:56
be on my a game with the splits interests.
1:00:59
It was In that I was excited to coat but it didn't really come
1:01:04
naturally for me, it really didn't.
1:01:07
And so I just you know, that that heightened level of focus
1:01:12
and hey, you got to get this thing, right?
1:01:15
You're going to mess. Somebody up was really kicked
1:01:18
in, you know. And and you know, I created my
1:01:20
time, Georgia has to be probably the most impactful time in my
1:01:27
Sprint, coaching career, of course, you know?
1:01:30
I was fortunate enough to have some really good athletes really
1:01:33
would be the athletes at the University of Georgia, you know,
1:01:36
mentioned Debbie Ferguson another one.
1:01:38
Good run on a daughter. You know she is a great
1:01:42
Icelandic athlete. John Mitchell, of course had a
1:01:45
really good recruiting base and good contacts in Iceland and
1:01:50
Goodwin came and she was 100-meter hurdle converted into
1:01:55
a form of meter hurdle and became good at both of them
1:01:59
back. I to this day, goodrem, still
1:02:00
compose. The forms of me to record at
1:02:02
University of Georgia. Oh, wow.
1:02:04
So yeah, I, you know, having those two good athletes, you
1:02:08
know, allowed me to really learn a lot, you know, and too to sort
1:02:15
of be reassured that what I'm doing is the right thing to do,
1:02:19
you know, and we've been blessed to have just amazing coaches in
1:02:24
some of the longevity coaches. So the Brooks Johnson's and
1:02:29
Harry mayor, has and others that we've had, they talk a lot about
1:02:33
not pigeon, holing yourself and be in a Sprint's coach or a
1:02:37
jumps coach, or a throws coach or a distance coach.
1:02:40
And they talked about being a track coach that there's a
1:02:43
enough similarities between the Since you just change where the
1:02:46
discus is versus the hips on traveling in the triple jump and
1:02:49
cetera. I love how you describe that in
1:02:52
the Sprint's. You had to like it, since it
1:02:54
didn't come naturally, like the jumps did that.
1:02:57
You had to really get to sit. You said, you had to be on your
1:03:00
A-game. You had to really focus to not
1:03:04
using your words screw them up, right?
1:03:06
Sure. What were you doing?
1:03:08
Educational wise to coach these athletes?
1:03:11
What were you doing for you? To raise the level of your
1:03:13
craft? Who were you talking to wear
1:03:15
their clinics back then? What were you doing there?
1:03:19
Definitely clinics time. Then I would go to as many
1:03:23
clinics as I could. I would talk to Tom Jones.
1:03:27
I would talk to Dan pass and and just I just remembered even
1:03:34
though I did the jumps, I remembered I would always have
1:03:37
that little corner of my eyes. You know, glanced toward with
1:03:41
the sprinters were doing. And, you know, my cat almost in
1:03:47
addition to, you know, all of my reading I mentioned, I'd go to
1:03:51
the library every Lunch, Period to just go read and study and
1:03:53
read as much as I can, but a lot of it really came sort of
1:03:58
naturally to me, you know it was having been in the sport been in
1:04:03
the sport for so long. You know, I I sort of knew what
1:04:09
to do. And with all those coaches that
1:04:11
I had, I took a little bit from everybody, you know, took a
1:04:14
little bit from everybody. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:04:16
The heck of a base there, that's for sure.
1:04:18
I mean, you're lucky in that sense that well you had some,
1:04:21
you know, future Hall of Famers that the starter starter in the
1:04:24
beginning of their careers compared to where they are
1:04:27
today. Yeah, you know, the thing, I
1:04:29
would say to any young coaches, starting out, read read read,
1:04:35
you know, man, that's that's the the biggest thing you can do is
1:04:38
that's what I just did, a lot of research and a lot of reading
1:04:41
and you know, I think if you could understand how the body
1:04:44
works and how I'll to get somebody in shape, That's a
1:04:50
really good starting point. So really starting how do you
1:04:52
get fit? How do you get fit?
1:04:54
You know, so we want to bring as much value immense amounts of
1:04:58
value to anyone who humbles us and listen to our podcast.
1:05:02
When you say read expand on that, a little bit.
1:05:05
Are you talking about? Like I remember being on the bus
1:05:08
when I was at Mississippi State and our head coach back, then
1:05:10
was out Schmidt and, you know, he had coach for a long time had
1:05:14
amazing at that point had the 1500 M National Record holder
1:05:17
for the women highly accomplished.
1:05:19
And he would be literally reading education, I'll come
1:05:25
educational books, but like books at a clock, like college
1:05:28
manual manuscripts like you know, physics 101 and all that
1:05:31
stuff. I mean, that that was his light
1:05:33
reading if you will help us understand when you say read.
1:05:38
And if you have any examples but what are you talking about?
1:05:40
When you're saying read reading the class material reading book
1:05:43
CEO, Tom to Les, just came out with a new book that everybody's
1:05:46
raving about help us dive into that a little bit more.
1:05:49
And I know you're exactly right. You know, you want to be don't
1:05:56
don't try to reinvent the wheel. We know the successful coaches
1:05:59
are, you know, and if they have a book out there, you know, just
1:06:03
trying to get a hold of it, you know, talk to those successful
1:06:08
coaches in many, many of them up, you know, and I've found
1:06:13
that Coaches, they want to teach.
1:06:17
They want to impart knowledge and so a young coach comes to
1:06:21
me, you know, I'm going to explain to you.
1:06:23
I'm going to give you the time to talk to you.
1:06:25
So yeah. II read journals, you know,
1:06:30
course I'm talking about, you know, ancient time.
1:06:32
You know, I remember, yeah, I remember Dan path and and
1:06:37
anybody that I can go to anybody yet that I can go to the, get a
1:06:41
hand on some sort of a pamphlet or, you know, some sort of
1:06:45
Fighting system. I would read, you know, I
1:06:47
remember Larry Jesse, Mama, great pole, vault, at UTEP,
1:06:51
giving me, you know, some of the training principles of the
1:06:56
Eastern Bloc country, you know, East Germans training system.
1:06:59
The Russian system have additional reading, you know, in
1:07:03
fact, Dennis, I still have some of those things.
1:07:05
Do they still do these to do a quarterly?
1:07:07
I think track and field news, put it out called the track
1:07:09
technique. Maybe it's called tracker, do
1:07:11
they still do that? I used to love that, I'm not
1:07:13
sure they do that as well. Well, you know, in fact, you
1:07:16
know and I technique magazine, you know, there's there's that
1:07:21
and I'm just amazed that the knowledge and the new level of
1:07:27
training that some of these younger coaches coming up.
1:07:31
I mean, just brilliant stuff. Brilliant stuff.
1:07:34
The most valuable thing that you said there was don't try to
1:07:37
reinvent the wheel. We're always looking for that.
1:07:40
What's the one workout? No one's doing?
1:07:41
What's the one Technique? No one's teaching and it's like
1:07:44
what? You know what the other night.
1:07:45
T9 people are doing their teaching this and that's
1:07:47
working, like, learn the basics and get really good at them.
1:07:51
That's how the majority of coaches.
1:07:52
Who are consistent? Consistently outperformed their
1:07:56
athletes outperform. Others, is they do the really
1:07:59
basic stuff really well over and over and over, you know, I've
1:08:05
probably forgotten 80% 90% of what Dan top told me, but I
1:08:10
didn't forget this one. He said, Norbert, if it has
1:08:14
stood the test of time, then it's good.
1:08:18
If it has stood the test of time, then it's good, you know,
1:08:22
he also told me you can learn a lot from nature from animals.
1:08:27
Let's look and see what the animals are doing, look and see
1:08:31
what they're doing. You know, those, those two
1:08:33
things, you know, you know, in addition to a myriad of other
1:08:37
things, if it stood the test of time, well, I don't think, you
1:08:43
know, the human body is really change that much.
1:08:45
I don't think genetically, we've changed in 100 years.
1:08:50
So those two things I still hold, you know, dear dear to me.
1:08:56
Yeah, degree in for things that have stood the test of time, Dan
1:08:59
path, has stood the test of time, that's a great love that
1:09:02
he said it because that would be, by example.
1:09:05
Absolutely. Yeah, the only thing that's
1:09:06
changed the body, right? It's just how much we understand
1:09:08
of it on a daily basis. That's that's what's changed.
1:09:11
Yeah. So you spent did I hear you say
1:09:13
10 years? At Georgia and he hasn't
1:09:15
University Georgia. Yeah.
1:09:16
And so, what was next and why why did we leave the Bulldogs?
1:09:20
Well, you know, I think it was just time to Make that
1:09:24
transition. And, you know, I was able to get
1:09:28
ahead job, head coaching. Job at Murray State University.
1:09:31
Oh, yeah. Yeah, I was lucky, you know, I
1:09:36
think Margaret Simmons, we, I don't know, Margaret some of
1:09:39
this, but at the time Margaret, was the SWA at Murray State
1:09:44
University, but she was also the editor of the NCAA rules book.
1:09:49
Got a hold of one of those all Rules book.
1:09:52
You see Market simulator Owens Marcus Simmons is name in that
1:09:56
book and you know, still holds true today.
1:10:01
Margaret Simmons, new John Mitchell, John Mitchell.
1:10:05
Put in a good word for me and I was lucky enough to to land that
1:10:09
head job at a really good time. You know, learned a lot.
1:10:14
You know. Now, here I am, I'm no longer an
1:10:17
assistant coach on my head coach, they have.
1:10:19
I my favorite question to ask when someone their first head
1:10:22
coaching job. Were you ready to head coach at?
1:10:27
Absolutely. No.
1:10:28
You never even liked never ready to take that head coaching job,
1:10:32
even back then. What were the differences going
1:10:34
from the assistants chair to the head, honchos chair.
1:10:37
What were the differences back then?
1:10:39
I know we did less paperwork and stuff back then, but still there
1:10:41
had to be differences. Well, you know the difference is
1:10:45
is you know the buck stops with you.
1:10:50
The buck stops with you, you know, as an assistant coach year
1:10:53
really Your main focus is to recruit pretty much in your
1:10:56
event area and to code to those student athletes in your event
1:11:01
area. Well, now as head coach, you've
1:11:03
got to really know what's going on.
1:11:05
All of the events. You know, when there's, you
1:11:11
know, some sort of trouble that comes that arises you know
1:11:16
you've got to be able to handle it, you know, you have to be
1:11:18
able to handle you know, the disciplinary part and Also,
1:11:24
that, that was really challenging.
1:11:25
You know, you're in charge of setting a budget.
1:11:29
You're in charge of making a track schedule track of your
1:11:35
schedule, you know, their indoor meets to go to the outdoor
1:11:38
minutes to go to, you know, you've got to make sure that you
1:11:41
are come in compliance with, you know, not only your conference
1:11:45
rules, but your NCAA rules. You know, one of the mistakes I
1:11:50
made was no. Competing student-athletes that
1:11:55
weren't on my sort of eligibility list, you know, even
1:11:58
make little mistakes like that, you know.
1:12:01
So you gotta know all the little ins and outs all the nuances,
1:12:06
you know that come into play with most putting together a
1:12:12
program, you know, and does the, you know what's interesting is
1:12:15
the smaller the school, the less resources, the less help you
1:12:20
have, right? You know, and there was, you
1:12:22
know, Limited, limited help at Murray State.
1:12:28
Great program. Great school.
1:12:30
But, you know, you, you taking on a whole lot of dealings, you
1:12:34
know, you're switching hats like crazy, you know, left, right and
1:12:37
Center. Yeah, I can't imagine your boss
1:12:40
was a rules editor. The, the amount of pressure of
1:12:43
like, oh man, no one's going to know the rules better than her.
1:12:46
Yeah, I got to make sure it was just a great supporter, just a
1:12:53
fan. Tastic Supply.
1:12:54
I'll tell you a little story, you know?
1:12:59
It gets a little cold in Murray Kentucky.
1:13:01
Okay. And once again look, I believe
1:13:06
in making sure that my athletes are feet, okay.
1:13:09
And I remember it must have been a December day.
1:13:12
Could have been a late November day in the temperature dropped
1:13:14
quite a bit and and you know the athletes weren't used to going
1:13:18
out in the cold. Well of course they would run
1:13:19
down in the hallway, I was having another, you know, and lo
1:13:24
and behold you know, a few of the athletes, went to Margaret
1:13:26
to go complain. So Margaret Garner, the computer
1:13:30
looked at the temperature and say, take your tail outside.
1:13:33
They're going for a we all want that, the administrator that
1:13:38
supports, that's awesome. You know, and so yeah, she's
1:13:43
supported me man. See ya.
1:13:45
I was you get the best excuse to?
1:13:47
It's like look, I'm from the Bahamas and I'm going outside
1:13:51
like no excuses. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:13:54
I look coming from the SEC. Go into the Ohio Valley
1:13:59
Conference at Murray State was it was something that, you know,
1:14:03
I had that SEC, you know, and I had to change the culture of
1:14:06
them, you know. And so it's just sorry.
1:14:09
Zero the temperature gets a little cold.
1:14:11
So let's just go inside, you know, I knew that I had some
1:14:14
stuff that I needed to accomplish and Mike it wasn't
1:14:17
that cold you know it now then uses going inside.
1:14:21
Yeah. And so with Margaret supporting
1:14:23
me, you know who did you lean on?
1:14:26
Who were some mentors on the head coaching side?
1:14:28
So you mentioned, there's so many hats.
1:14:29
You got to where you're going from a to suspect, a well
1:14:34
resource program at Georgia. If not, I never once a over
1:14:37
resource but really, I was really awesome to a under
1:14:41
resource program who were some of the people that Mentor for
1:14:44
you as a head coach in that respect back.
1:14:46
Then, on doubtedly John Mitchell, genres Don Mitchell
1:14:53
Way Norton. You know, when John Mitchell
1:14:55
retired from University of Georgia Wayne, Norton was, was
1:14:59
named head coach and so I actually was Wayne's assistant
1:15:03
for a couple of years before I, you know, left to go to Murray
1:15:09
Murray State University and so John Mitchell and Way Norton.
1:15:12
You know. So those are the two people I
1:15:14
felt most comfortable with. Yeah, I would lean on Coach
1:15:17
Mitchell. I mean, talk about someone just
1:15:19
tremendous amount of years of experience, right?
1:15:22
And reach lean on him, you know, quite a bit but it and from time
1:15:26
I'd call Bob kitchens at UTEP as well and Tom Jones.
1:15:31
So I had a lot of coaches to sort of lean on and to get ideas
1:15:36
from and they were really helpful.
1:15:39
That's what's great about this profession is that, you know,
1:15:42
while there certainly are some rivalries and adversaries on the
1:15:46
whole were very helpful towards each other.
1:15:49
Like you had mentioned about young coaches and your
1:15:51
accessibility. It's like, you know, if your
1:15:54
only excuse is that you haven't asked yet, you know, you haven't
1:15:57
asked a coach Elliot for help. Hey, how do you get sprinters
1:16:00
fit? And hey, coach Mo new head coach
1:16:03
what should I be expect? What's the number one?
1:16:06
Blind spot, you know, those kind of things.
1:16:07
That's your only excuses that you haven't asked yet.
1:16:10
If you're looking for help out there so many coaches that are
1:16:15
ready to help, but they've gone through, they've made the
1:16:17
mistakes. Let me help you make fewer
1:16:22
mistakes. Look it, if you in this career
1:16:25
to be rich, Being a happen, you know, not going to happen.
1:16:31
You did, you're delusional. That's not why we're in this
1:16:34
career, you know, I think every coach you see out there really
1:16:39
understands and they've come up with their own, they've arrived
1:16:44
at their own Epiphany that first and foremost, they are teaching.
1:16:48
We are teachers first and foremost.
1:16:51
And so, the student comes to you, whether it's a student
1:16:54
athlete, or a grad student or young, Wanting to learn.
1:17:00
It's not in our DNA to deny that that giving that information
1:17:05
out. And so you're exactly right.
1:17:07
Mike, you know, there's no excuse, you can go to any coach,
1:17:11
they're going to give you what they are going to teach, you
1:17:15
know, it's no secret. Now, they will say, and by the
1:17:19
way, by the way, the ones that say, no, I don't want to give
1:17:21
away my secret. You don't want their help
1:17:24
anyways. Yeah, yeah, yeah, dodged.
1:17:26
A bullet move on. You might want to double thing
1:17:29
that anyway, you know. So move us, keep us, keep moving
1:17:32
forward, Murray State what was next after Murray State at the
1:17:36
Murray State. Man.
1:17:38
That you know, they cut my budget at Murray State.
1:17:40
Yeah, I want to stay. I was building a really good
1:17:43
team at Murray State. You know, I had some athletes
1:17:47
there. I had a, you know, gentleman by
1:17:49
the name of carlile's cardial has ended up being a great.
1:17:53
Triple jump at University of Tennessee will call you allowed.
1:17:56
Was that Maurice take real? Believe It or Not car there
1:17:59
loud. Was that wasn't marriage date.
1:18:02
You know, I contacted a friend of mine when I was at Murray
1:18:08
State by the name of Paul Arirang, Paula rang for those
1:18:11
that might not know, Paula rang is the 1988 Olympic gold
1:18:18
medalist in the 800 meters. Okay, what I've got to do Paul
1:18:22
was in Kenya working with the iaf, you know, High Level
1:18:25
Training. I said hey Paul I need It.
1:18:28
I need a distance runner for my program because they know, but
1:18:31
I'll send you a really good one. Well, he sent me a kid by the
1:18:34
name of Wesley Korea. I'm going to be no, Wesley
1:18:37
career is but I'll give you just a little store.
1:18:40
And Wesley, Wesley ran for me for that one year until they cut
1:18:45
the program. And then he went to Louisville,
1:18:49
Just was a all world. Yes, finish this career, you
1:18:54
know, several time All-American was this Steeplechase sir?
1:18:58
Ended up being a marathon Marathon.
1:19:00
Yeah. And then the being of great
1:19:01
Marathon winning the Boston Marathon ended up winning the LA
1:19:06
marathon. And here's a little interesting
1:19:08
story but Wesley, Wesley went to the Chicago marathon and wanted
1:19:12
to learn in the, you know, with the elite group, of course, the
1:19:14
elite group, they said they'd send them off.
1:19:16
I don't know. Several minutes ahead of the
1:19:18
regulars. Right.
1:19:20
And then the story goes and need promote us that nice on you.
1:19:24
You have no business running with these guy, you don't know,
1:19:26
you know how good these guys are.
1:19:27
What he started with the regular group and this ran and past like
1:19:33
tons of athletes and ended up finishing.
1:19:35
I don't know, top four, top five.
1:19:37
Even though we started several minutes behind, well, you know,
1:19:40
Wesley, became, you know, just a really good successful, you
1:19:43
know, Road Runner. But he was, yeah, he was my
1:19:45
athlete. Believe it Murray State.
1:19:47
I recruited Wesley to the you U.s. and he's doing well for
1:19:53
himself right now, became a minister Member of Parliament
1:19:56
and Kenyans doing a lot to his community.
1:19:59
Why amazing and still highly involved in community outreach
1:20:03
and and I'm trying to make his community, you know, better
1:20:09
place to live. So basically it's just a
1:20:11
tremendous guy. Yeah, really tremendous.
1:20:14
Anyway so I left Murray State and I want to thank Dean
1:20:20
Sanderson, Ben Sanderson, you know, join, Pat, Henry at Texas
1:20:24
A&M and so when Vince left to go join that Henry at Texas A&M
1:20:30
that created an opening, and I applied for the job interview,
1:20:34
the bill Webb and got a job at the University of Tennessee.
1:20:39
Lucky was really fortunate to, you know, to start a second
1:20:42
stint in the SEC. Yeah.
1:20:44
First 10 years at University of Georgia and now here I am back
1:20:47
in the SEC at University of See with the Vols what?
1:20:52
So that's interesting SEC, Ohio Valley back to the SEC and of
1:20:57
course spoiler alert you're the Big Ten.
1:20:59
Now you know, a lot of coaches it since I've been having this
1:21:03
conversation with some of the guests and the couple weeks
1:21:05
here, I've been seeing a lot of a huge social media guy Norbert.
1:21:09
I don't see you on social media at all my man, we got to change
1:21:11
that. I need to get you on Twitter
1:21:13
Instagram something. Yeah I do.
1:21:15
Yeah you get some Norbert isms out.
1:21:17
Yeah absolutely so but on On Twitter, especially that's where
1:21:20
I like to hang out a lot. There's been a lot of chatter
1:21:23
proper chatter about towards athlete from coaches to athlete
1:21:28
saying, hey, don't sell yourself out on a D1 mentality, that yes,
1:21:32
there are certainly great schools and great programs for
1:21:35
you on the division, one level. But don't forget that, there are
1:21:38
D2 D3. NAIA Juco opportunities, I flip
1:21:42
that around to the coaches because I mean, that's where my
1:21:46
focus is, of course. But while I certainly believe
1:21:48
that athletes I certainly We believe that in coaches and
1:21:51
their their livelihood, their life's that, you know, the we
1:21:55
see the glitz and glamour of a Tennessee or Georgia or Purdue
1:21:59
and we hear of a Murray State or will learn here in a little
1:22:02
while Campbell University. I went to Troy University, we
1:22:05
think we tend to have this hierarchy, like oh, Campbell,
1:22:09
Murray State, Troy down here and then you know, heaven on Earth
1:22:15
if you will Tennessee. Georgia, Etc.
1:22:18
So a lot of coaches Are you know foaming at the mouth to get to
1:22:23
the SEC and they think it that you know their career is set,
1:22:26
you know, their lives will be so much better if they get to that
1:22:29
level you went to several different levels.
1:22:33
What advice do you have in regards to?
1:22:35
And I know you had a lot of fun and success and career changing,
1:22:39
you know, you did a lot for kids and for your own livelihood at
1:22:42
Tennessee just like you did At Mercer.
1:22:44
I mean the story of Wesley ink RJ, you're at Murray State.
1:22:48
I mean if there was no Murray Tate.
1:22:50
I'm not saying there wouldn't be a Wesley or car Jay, but it
1:22:52
would have been a different path and obviously, their pads went
1:22:54
on to Greatness. What do you have on that?
1:22:56
As far as coaches thinking that if they don't hit the SEC or
1:23:00
power 5, I should say that their careers aren't worth, they
1:23:04
didn't make it if you will. You know, my God, I think I've
1:23:11
got a different sort of spin on it.
1:23:15
I would not have left. Murray State University, had it
1:23:18
not been for a budget crisis. You know, I can't fall to coach
1:23:24
for wanting to be at a university or at a conference
1:23:28
where there is job security. You know you know we coach
1:23:32
because we're passionate about teaching and coaching and
1:23:35
imparting knowledge and Tutoring advising raising young kids to
1:23:41
become adults and but you've got to still at some level.
1:23:46
Be able to have a degree of job security.
1:23:50
I wouldn't have left Murray State.
1:23:52
I'm, I lived in a neighborhood that was just so much fun.
1:23:57
My kids enjoyed it, you know, I will tell young coaches, there
1:24:02
are so many good places to coach, you know, find that Good
1:24:07
place to coach fine if you're a family person, find that good
1:24:12
area to raise a family and just go teach and go enjoy, go coach.
1:24:17
So I I would, I think I know what you're sort of alluding to
1:24:21
you don't have to coach at a big 10 PAC, 10 out of, you know, Big
1:24:27
12 or whatever SEC you don't have to do that.
1:24:30
You know, find that fit find that Niche for you and just
1:24:37
Enjoy coaching. And and that is that is that is
1:24:41
what I was really doing. I was having a lot of fun in at
1:24:44
Murray State University. But, you know, II wanted to
1:24:50
continue to advance my career wanted to have success.
1:24:53
I wanted to have a men's and women's program.
1:24:55
You know what it was cut, literally down to nothing and I
1:25:00
was told, I had to still maintain a myth program made up
1:25:04
of sort of Waltons. Well, You enjoy coaching you
1:25:08
enjoy teaching, but you see, it's a sport and, and you want
1:25:12
to have success in this point, you want to be competitive, you
1:25:15
just don't want to March Mark time, you know, Martin step and
1:25:18
not moving, not progress, you know?
1:25:20
And so that's the reason why I left Maurice de, you know, just
1:25:24
I left a break neighborhood, a great Community, a great school,
1:25:28
just, you know, try to find some sort of job, stability and
1:25:32
comfort. So, you know, I would say
1:25:37
coaches and administrators you know, need to keep the sport of
1:25:42
track and field. It's a great ski.
1:25:43
Yes. All this for you know you know
1:25:47
for whatever reason we're seeing especially you know recently
1:25:51
with this covid pandemic. So many programs that are in
1:25:55
Jeopardy that have been cotton and then you know, the backlash
1:25:58
and all that and so Yeah, I try to find a stable place to coach.
1:26:07
So how was your stability at Knoxville?
1:26:09
How did that go? How long were you there?
1:26:10
And how was it? That's a great school to coach
1:26:13
at to be I had a tremendous time.
1:26:16
I had really good success. I met a lot of great athletes
1:26:20
there, you know, thank you, Miss Anderson again, be honest with
1:26:25
you, you know, I was able to recruit some there but you know,
1:26:28
I met a, you know, who he is. What's so interesting?
1:26:31
After I they cut the program at Murray State car Jake ended up
1:26:37
at Tennessee before. I did Carlisle's just
1:26:41
transferred to Tennessee because of that was a package deal.
1:26:44
That was not a package deal. He ended up transferring to
1:26:48
Tennessee fast forward. You know he's an All-American
1:26:50
finishing fourth in the triple jump jumping 1650 something you
1:26:54
know was a package to you, you know.
1:26:57
But I was able to meet some really good athletes there.
1:27:00
Robin Williams Indoor NCAA champion in the 220 30-something
1:27:06
35. I believe gentleman by the name
1:27:08
of Ares Merrick was there is the who's that guy?
1:27:14
So, you know and you know, was able to recruit, you know,
1:27:18
several great athletes. Kyle, Stephenson was now.
1:27:20
Great coach in his own right at Joyce, Banda Wells, great
1:27:24
athlete. Just across the board.
1:27:26
Some really was able to recruit, you know, who, if you can't
1:27:29
recruit at a University of Georgia, or Or at a University
1:27:32
of Tennessee, then back it up, you know.
1:27:38
And so, you know, the one that's 1 plus, you know, student
1:27:42
athletes tend to want to want to be the SEC right now.
1:27:48
You sort of alluded to that earlier.
1:27:50
You know. I will say you can find success.
1:27:54
You could find that one fit find the place.
1:27:56
That's right for you. Yeah, you know.
1:27:58
Yeah, that's the key sea level caliber a free then.
1:28:01
There. But, you know, not everybody is,
1:28:04
that's the key, right, there is finding the fit in.
1:28:07
By the way, I'm the guy who did on a coaching side, who did
1:28:10
exactly what I preach against. Now, my whole coaching career
1:28:14
was to get to the SEC, I grew up in Alabama.
1:28:16
So the SEC, that's all I watched on TV, right?
1:28:19
That was, that was the place to be.
1:28:21
And so I leave Ball State University where had a lot of
1:28:24
success, great. One of my athletes, just this
1:28:27
weekend was announced that she's going to be in the Ball State
1:28:30
Hall of Fame. Shh, soman, 22.
1:28:33
You know how, you know, when you get older your PR is get better
1:28:36
because I never really had PRS. I suck.
1:28:38
So my athletes PR is get better. The older I am.
1:28:41
So Patty was like a 22-foot 44 foot jumper.
1:28:44
I'm sure I'm off a little bit but she was almost like she was
1:28:46
a stud. She was All-American and all
1:28:48
that come. Not like she was on a 19 foot
1:28:50
jumper, like I'm being for real. She was really good but, you
1:28:53
know, side a lot of success but I really wanted no matter what
1:28:56
to get to the SEC. That was the.
1:28:58
I've made it. Yeah, we will.
1:29:00
And so I get the To go to Mississippi State.
1:29:02
And the problem was, I thought I'd made it.
1:29:04
Like I'm like, oh, I've done like I'm 28 years old and I'm an
1:29:06
SEC. My career said, I'll be here for
1:29:08
the rest of my life, and it's a whole different, you know, that
1:29:10
first SEC Championship is when it really smacks.
1:29:12
You like, I mean, you go to, although you go to Tyson invite
1:29:15
that's it's amazing, it's great. But any conference when you go
1:29:18
to your first conference mean, you're like, oh, what happened?
1:29:23
This ain't supposed to happen. Iaf level competition, I mean
1:29:31
like no other It is, you talk about hard to describe.
1:29:34
It is hard to describe what an SEC Championship meat is, and
1:29:38
that is, and I, we weren't ever really in the hunt for the
1:29:40
national title. So I can only imagine that a
1:29:43
similar when you go to the in seas and you know, you're
1:29:45
fighting every point is a huge gap right at the n-c-double-a
1:29:49
championship, I can only imagine it's similar.
1:29:52
But in the SEC it because you see them all everyday, like, you
1:29:56
know, and, you know them all and you re probably recruited half
1:29:59
of the athletes on every other team.
1:30:01
Yeah. Oh, get out of here.
1:30:04
Definitely something. I had I had a good time.
1:30:08
Good time. You know, Bill Webb retired and
1:30:12
they combined programs. And you know, part of our sport
1:30:15
is, you know, the the dark side, you know, I lost my job.
1:30:22
Actually at the University of Tennessee coaches change, you
1:30:26
know, people bring in their own people.
1:30:30
And so I lost my job at University of Tennessee and, you
1:30:36
know, was in the unemployment line and was online looking for
1:30:40
jobs and I searched and searched and found a nice.
1:30:44
Little place called Campbell University, it's one of my
1:30:48
favorite universities, and I mean, that I love, I love the
1:30:51
camel. Is of Campbell University,
1:30:53
Campbell camels? Yeah.
1:30:55
The camels in buies Creek, not exactly.
1:31:01
You know, folks always a squeeze buies Creek.
1:31:04
You know you tell me you live there and you still don't know.
1:31:07
Yeah that's interesting. You you know at this point long
1:31:13
career at Georgia, you know ten years that's a, that's a, that's
1:31:16
a decade. If you don't believe that.
1:31:18
That's only math, I know Tennessee national Ins, you
1:31:22
know, all Americans. And you go to look for a job in
1:31:27
its Campbell it's not falling upwards and you go to SC or
1:31:32
Arizona, you know, saying how did you deal with that on an ego
1:31:36
side? And what I mean by that, I don't
1:31:37
think he goes bad but you go can be bad.
1:31:40
So, how did you reconcile Bulldogs Vols?
1:31:45
And now I'm a camel. Well, one word, Mike Bahamas.
1:31:54
Bahamas. Look, I'm an island boy, man.
1:31:59
I've got to provide for my family.
1:32:02
I've got to put food on the table for my family.
1:32:06
Okay, I have a passion. Yes, but I can do anything, you
1:32:11
know, I can do anything, you know, if I were to lose this job
1:32:15
today, you know, you'd see me stocking shelves at Home, Depot
1:32:21
at Lowe's, you know? Whatever it takes, whatever it
1:32:25
takes. So I was I was thrilled and
1:32:27
happy to, you know, be able to find a job, you know, doing what
1:32:32
I love. And so yeah, that's the ego part
1:32:36
of it. Yeah.
1:32:38
But it was a little humbling, be honest with you, you know, truth
1:32:41
be told but, you know, here, I am once again, I was head coach
1:32:45
at Murray State, went to being an assistant at Tennessee.
1:32:48
Now, I have another opportunity to hone my head coaching skills.
1:32:53
And so I jumped on, you know, thank you.
1:32:56
Bob Rolla. Who's the Ada at the time, but,
1:32:58
you know, giving me that job, you know.
1:33:00
And so unfortunately I didn't spend a whole lot of time.
1:33:04
I was I was there for literally one season, you know, one year
1:33:08
roughly. And now I remember it was a
1:33:12
summer day. I was walking on a park.
1:33:16
While my kid was skateboarding. I get a call from my really good
1:33:18
friend, longtime best friend, Rolando green and he said, hey,
1:33:24
no, every time, it looks like I'm going to get the job at.
1:33:26
Do University. You know, I want you to be my
1:33:29
first assistant. I go.
1:33:31
But Lonnie, I just got here, man.
1:33:33
I can't leave this place, you know?
1:33:37
Of course it didn't take me too long.
1:33:39
You know, when he told me what the salary was going to be and
1:33:41
of course, you know, you always looking for job security.
1:33:47
That's important. You know, let's know you love
1:33:52
what you do with you. Always you looking for job
1:33:54
security. I think everybody Union in every
1:33:57
career path. One want to know that.
1:34:00
You know, I've Longevity in what I'm doing.
1:34:03
You know it's up to meeting to remain here unless I screwed up
1:34:07
and you know to go from the Big South to the Big Ten was a
1:34:13
no-brainer you know. And to also work along with my
1:34:16
really good friend Rolando drain.
1:34:18
Yeah I was gonna say that's the sprinkles on top, right?
1:34:20
It's like okay wrinkles on. That's my guy.
1:34:22
Yeah we're yeah. And so initially, I was really
1:34:30
excited. Oh man, big tent.
1:34:32
Yes, you know in a few days late I wait a minute.
1:34:36
Let me see exactly where Purdue is located.
1:34:45
Holy cow, you know, it's like, you know, I'd spend some time.
1:34:50
Now, listen to me, all of my time is spent down south.
1:34:53
Okay. I mean moderate Winters, you
1:34:55
know, you tap gets a little sprinkling of snow, you know?
1:34:59
Yeah. Dusting of snow in Georgia.
1:35:00
They shut the whole place down. No, but that the stores are
1:35:05
gone. It's cold in Murray, Kentucky
1:35:09
Kentucky's, coal. you know, buies Creek, North Carolina, you
1:35:13
know, when I looked on the map, And this thing is closer to
1:35:18
Chicago. Okay, then it is to Kentucky,
1:35:22
man. Holy smoke, you hit interviewed
1:35:27
in South Dakota. Yeah, yeah.
1:35:30
All right. I'll have to assume it was an
1:35:31
interview during the summer. It was it was during the summer.
1:35:34
It. Do you know how cold it gets in
1:35:36
South? No idea.
1:35:38
No idea. Really, I'm leaving Mari Kita.
1:35:41
I'm Lee, I'm flying from El Paso, Texas to Brookings South
1:35:45
Dakota and the guy tells me gifts do, but I really didn't
1:35:48
know, no idea the honestly no idea.
1:35:50
Okay. But uh so that's spend some time
1:35:54
I'm in Georgia, spend some time in Murray Kentucky, I get and I
1:35:57
have an idea now and I'm like, whoa dude, you know you're going
1:36:05
your two hours, south of Chicago.
1:36:09
But you know I mean just once again though, you know an
1:36:12
opportunity to be in the big tent, the coach that you know,
1:36:16
at once again at a great cost in a great conference at a great
1:36:21
University, you know, just the rapid reputation.
1:36:24
You know, the you know, the academic reputation that Purdue
1:36:27
had an opportunity to work with my really good friend prolonged
1:36:31
with me, you know. So it was definitely an upward
1:36:36
move for me. Put a pin in that because I do
1:36:38
want to spend some time at Purdue You guys have done, some
1:36:40
amazing things at Purdue continuing from when Lonnie was
1:36:44
there and he left and continuing on with you with you under your
1:36:48
directorship. But I do want to take a step
1:36:50
back, something you said there when we were talking about ego,
1:36:52
all right? And you talked about humbleness
1:36:54
as well, and, you know, to me ego is not automatically bad.
1:36:57
It can be bad. There are people who let you go,
1:37:00
be bad humbleness. Is that other part that you,
1:37:03
they tend to think it's the opposite of ego, right?
1:37:05
It's always good. Well, humbleness can be bad as
1:37:08
well. There's some fake humbleness.
1:37:10
If you will write what I love about your humbleness was you
1:37:14
talked about? Hey, I'm an island boy.
1:37:16
I'm going to provide for my family, if I if it ends today,
1:37:19
if whatever reason I will be on those shelves, that that speaks
1:37:24
volumes to your work ethic, you said, whatever it takes.
1:37:28
Like, that's the kind of I can only imagine that's the kind of
1:37:31
athlete you were as far as like, okay, I'm going to do everything
1:37:34
I can to become the best triple jumper even though I'm looking
1:37:37
at those printers over there. But as a coach It's like, okay,
1:37:40
I'm not gonna let my lack of whatever.
1:37:44
Be the reason my athletes don't succeed.
1:37:45
So I'm going to go to the library.
1:37:46
I'm going to read. I'm going to talk that.
1:37:48
Is that hunger of humbleness of? It's not going to be if there's
1:37:53
a resource out there any I'm not going to just I'm not a too good
1:37:57
for it and that's what I love about.
1:37:59
Your your, your career of going from a Georgia to a Murray
1:38:04
State, to a Tennessee, to a Campbell.
1:38:07
And now to Purdue is it was never So beneath you ever know,
1:38:11
it was an opportunity to affect kids lives in a positive manner,
1:38:15
and provide for my family educationally Etc.
1:38:20
That's what I've always. That's what I loved about your
1:38:22
journey and why I really wanted you here because I love that.
1:38:24
It was never beneath you. I, if you were at, I don't know,
1:38:28
pick up, I'll use my alma mater if you were at Troy University
1:38:31
tomorrow, I think, no, I know you would be the same person
1:38:35
today that you are tomorrow. And that's that is the real Of
1:38:39
your journey. Sure II.
1:38:42
Appreciate that. Thank you for those kind words
1:38:44
and I think that you know someone anybody listening to
1:38:47
this you know just just be true to yourself.
1:38:50
Be humbled the about educating not be bigger than the sport,
1:38:58
you know the sport is is the sport, you know and we owe it
1:39:03
all to really respect the sport. We ought to treat the source
1:39:06
port with the dignity and and when we When we retire, you
1:39:10
know, we can walk away and leave the sport in a better place, you
1:39:13
know. Yeah.
1:39:15
It doesn't matter where you are, where you are.
1:39:18
You know, you've got to be that, that, that teacher, you've got
1:39:23
to continue to have the passion. You know, a lot of young coaches
1:39:27
want to be one of the power five conferences, but guess what?
1:39:34
You get there. If you so desire by just putting
1:39:39
You had to the grindstone and coaching your success will be
1:39:43
recognized. You know, don't think.
1:39:46
Oh, I believe I give that big conference.
1:39:48
They have all the equipment. They have all the technique and
1:39:51
and all of the latest cutting-edge tools.
1:39:56
Now I can have success. Know you can have success
1:39:59
wherever you are. Yeah, I was at Murray State and
1:40:03
what? One of my athletes ended up
1:40:05
finishing second in the eighth, in the 400.
1:40:07
Well, one of the coaches walked up to to me and go.
1:40:09
Hey, where did you get her from? I've been no.
1:40:12
This is her senior year. She's been here.
1:40:15
I just put my head to the grindstone, we just train,
1:40:18
didn't have a whole lot of equipment.
1:40:20
We just just ran, we just trained with whatever I had, we
1:40:24
just drink. They didn't even know she was
1:40:27
there. Okay, I know this is asking you
1:40:32
here, you know, I do what I do, you know, I just, I teach and I,
1:40:38
and we train and work hard, you know, so wherever you are just,
1:40:42
you know, keep keep that work, ethic that hard work.
1:40:45
Ethic with you, you know, and that's what I, that's what we
1:40:48
do, that's what we do. That's exactly a year, worth
1:40:51
your value as a person and as a coach, as a teacher is not
1:40:55
predicated on that P is Purdue or that P is Pitt State and
1:40:59
Kansas or Paradise Valley Community College.
1:41:01
Your worth is who you are as a person your integrity and who
1:41:05
you're willing to work for and that's again, that's why I love
1:41:07
that. Hey I'm an island boy.
1:41:09
I am going to take care of my family that that's it.
1:41:12
Okay so now but you are a tepee That is Purdue and you had a
1:41:17
great conference. You're at a great institution,
1:41:20
you've got great coaches around you.
1:41:21
So talk to us about the transition into the Big Ten
1:41:25
coaching with your friend who was one of the greatest people
1:41:28
in the world by the way. Love Lonnie Greenie.
1:41:30
Yeah. I mean, golly, you know, Lonnie
1:41:33
Green is, you know, a home bored.
1:41:36
You know, I'm a native Islander grew up, you know, I'm a few
1:41:40
years older than them but we grew up literally in the same
1:41:42
neighborhood and we talk about it all the time.
1:41:45
Really, very, very humble beginning.
1:41:49
If you were to have an opportunity to be down in the
1:41:52
islands, but with Rolanda green, and if he were able to label to
1:41:56
show you where he grew up and where you live, I mean, your jaw
1:41:59
would drop. And so you know, the old saying,
1:42:03
goes never forget what from whence?
1:42:05
You come, we come from but continue to look forward.
1:42:08
That's what you know, that's what we've done, you know, in
1:42:15
You know, he's gosh, talk about someone that had learning the
1:42:22
appetite to learn and to become good.
1:42:27
There is no shortcut. You know, his success is due to
1:42:33
his hard work. His diligence, you know, all of
1:42:36
the things we spoke about doing, you know, having mentors and
1:42:39
talking to people. He probably doesn't want me to
1:42:42
say this, but I'll fight. Fast forward the story.
1:42:46
He paid his own money, lived in a hotel for a week.
1:42:51
To go follow to go Shadow. Clyde hard Balaam.
1:42:57
Yeah, and he just passed it clutch hard and tell coach.
1:43:00
Hart gave me and said, okay, so on you can come on down, okay?
1:43:05
And paid is always lived in a hotel for a week and learned
1:43:08
every possible thing he could in that week from classic car,
1:43:12
whatever it takes, whatever, you know, and he's still learning.
1:43:19
I mean, green is best friends. You know competitors but himself
1:43:35
to learn from any and everybody. And so you know he'll he'll call
1:43:40
me to this day. Will bounce ideas back and forth
1:43:42
as successfully as he's been at University of Arkansas and then
1:43:46
at Purdue University and now did Kentucky, you called me.
1:43:50
Hey, what about this idea? What do you think about this?
1:43:51
This will make sure I'm doing it right, you know, and that's kind
1:43:54
of person. He is.
1:43:55
So Yeah. Just, you know, I miss him.
1:44:00
You know, I enjoyed the small few years that the wedding was
1:44:05
here, you know, at Purdue University.
1:44:09
But, you know, I'm also very, very thankful for him leaving.
1:44:13
Okay. Yeah.
1:44:15
No, you know, leaving the job in my hands.
1:44:21
What was it? Like, when you guys got there?
1:44:22
And I came here, if you were in the group, I caught you guys at
1:44:25
the Drake, Relays in the second year that you guys.
1:44:29
Has had all come to Purdue and I was telling Lonnie and Keith.
1:44:33
I think was in that group at that time, I was like, what's
1:44:36
most impressive is you guys came out of the chutes fast.
1:44:41
I mean Purdue was not in a great situation when you guys took
1:44:45
over and of course when you took over yet some transfer, you
1:44:48
know, the normal stuff that fortunately or unfortunately
1:44:51
happens depends on which side of the coin.
1:44:53
You are on that one. Yeah.
1:44:54
But you know within a year year and a half you guys were
1:44:58
cranking. You're And all Americans left
1:45:01
and right, big tent, you're moving up in the conference.
1:45:05
What was it? What what, what spark did you
1:45:07
guys bring to hit that to do that?
1:45:14
You know, like, it always starts with great leadership, you know,
1:45:20
and and knowing what I know now, you know, I want to thank you
1:45:24
know, Calvin Williams, the Lonnie's Sports supervisor, but
1:45:28
is wanting to make a change and Calvin, just did his due
1:45:32
diligence in researching and doing background checks.
1:45:37
And and you know, everybody spoke to, you know, they kept
1:45:41
mentioning Lonnie Green, this person on, you know, on his list
1:45:45
learning green and brought in Lonnie Lonnie brought the same
1:45:51
SEC attitude to Purdue University.
1:45:55
You know you saw the success he had at Arkansas and you know
1:46:02
once something is in your blood you real house you know you
1:46:06
bring it with you, you know he didn't reinvent the wheel, he
1:46:09
brought what he already knew and what he was And who he was with
1:46:13
him and, you know, you just change the culture, you know.
1:46:18
So it took a little while but you know greatcoats a great
1:46:24
motivator, I don't know of a better motivator you know.
1:46:26
So we were able to find the best we could find and just coach the
1:46:31
heck out of them, you know. And I can tell you Mike on
1:46:35
numerous occasions, folks would come up to us and we'll mail
1:46:38
just came with you. Get this kid from Just just, you
1:46:41
know, just a kid that we worked that we train, right?
1:46:44
You know you gotta wait when you're not in the school, you've
1:46:50
got to find the best you can find.
1:46:53
And you've got to use your ability to train, you know,
1:46:56
you've got to be a great teacher, you know?
1:46:58
And that's what we did that. That was the other aspect.
1:47:01
It was quick and it wasn't like you had a ton of transfers in
1:47:06
and you started ruling the state of Indiana.
1:47:09
Indiana is a great. High school track state but it's
1:47:11
not Texas, California, Florida. That was the other part of it,
1:47:14
too. Is like, you got these good
1:47:16
athletes and they became really good again, within that year and
1:47:20
a half two year span. Just so so quick.
1:47:23
It was so impressive from the outside to watch it.
1:47:26
Yeah. Yeah.
1:47:27
You know, they start off, we had a lot of small nucleus, you
1:47:31
know, we were able to bring in, you know, two young ladies from
1:47:34
the Bahamas deven Shah Sultan and Kamisha Cox once again, you
1:47:38
know, you got to use your The your connections, you know, my
1:47:45
my coworker at the time. But now my now she's my wife
1:47:49
and, you know, Angela Goodman, you know, she was able to you
1:47:52
know, help with the recruitment. In fact, she recruited, you
1:47:56
know, Brianna Thomas and Simone black and Chloe Abbott, you bet
1:48:00
we were able to bring those in, you know.
1:48:02
And so we had a sort of small nucleus around a Karsten,
1:48:06
Savannah Robeson, you know and this build Built a great
1:48:11
programmer around them and, you know, so we had almost a.
1:48:18
I would kind of categorize it as a media wreck success on the
1:48:21
women's side. Yeah.
1:48:24
And you know, just because of our hard work, you know you've
1:48:31
still got you still got the coach and you can recruit when
1:48:36
you can't find the best, you got to coaching and that's what we
1:48:39
did. You know, and and bad news for
1:48:42
anybody who thinks when you get them, that good there, you're
1:48:44
fine when you're in the Big Ten and SCC and Pac-12, and a lot of
1:48:47
other conferences, you got to get good ones and still coach
1:48:50
them, you gotta get the lamb, the top 10 in the nation and
1:48:53
still coach them up. It's a well, you know, I still
1:48:57
have nightmares again about it. How many years was Lonnie there
1:49:01
before he moved on to Kentucky and then you became the head
1:49:04
coach? Let's see, let me see if I can
1:49:06
get my math, right? So I'm in my ninth year but I'm
1:49:09
in my Third year as head coach. So Lonnie would have been here
1:49:13
for six years, 65 years, I mean, mine idea, five years as head
1:49:18
coach. So you talked a lot about
1:49:20
stability today, which is extremely important.
1:49:25
What were were their concerns? When Lonnie says, hey, best
1:49:29
friend, I'm going to Lexington, Good luck.
1:49:34
What is love? What do you think is like, oh my
1:49:36
gosh. I am, I back to the job, honey.
1:49:38
I mean, how did that go through? And then you, of course, you
1:49:40
eventually become the head coach.
1:49:42
Yeah, well, I remember him calling me and said, hey,
1:49:45
Norbert is keep this under your belt, but Texas is going to come
1:49:51
interviewing me. They're going to come calling.
1:49:53
Okay, I go. Okay and I kind of let it go.
1:49:57
Let's fast forward. It's summertime and I'm married
1:50:01
in my wife and I coached Angela and I were, you know, very
1:50:05
California, we're enjoying Wine Country.
1:50:08
Okay, we're going to do we're going to do a road trip from on
1:50:12
the PCH, you know from. Yeah.
1:50:15
You know, we just hard season, you know, deserve it.
1:50:19
Yeah. My grandson out there to go
1:50:21
visit his parents and you know, but I remember when it broke.
1:50:27
So he did the so fast forward. It doesn't get the Texas job.
1:50:30
You know, of course. So, I will befriend Glory as I
1:50:35
say, they hired some other guy. Yeah, some other guy of course
1:50:41
not. We want to Vacation, literally,
1:50:55
I'll phone went ringing off the hook, every single athlete
1:50:59
coach. What are you going to do?
1:51:00
What are you going to do? I'm leaving.
1:51:01
I'm going, I'm leaving, you know?
1:51:02
I mean I'm just Mayhem so I you know I call him up and go Leila.
1:51:07
Congratulations man, your phone's ringing off the hook.
1:51:09
What's going to happen? Because Elliot don't worry,
1:51:13
you've got a job, you know? I mean you're coming with me,
1:51:16
you know, you and coach. You're coming with me, you know,
1:51:20
I'm recommending that you, you know, stay here that give you
1:51:24
the job but I didn't know, you know.
1:51:27
There are no guarantees, right? No, no guarantees.
1:51:30
So this is in July. So, you know, I mean, we made
1:51:35
immediate plans, we shifted gear, you know, cancel all
1:51:40
plans, do call the airline. And the next morning we were
1:51:43
flying back to West Lafayette, right?
1:51:46
So I got back. I don't know, it must have been
1:51:49
the third of July on the fourth of July.
1:51:52
I'm meeting with the sport administrator.
1:51:56
You know, the guy that hide the, the system in hiring the
1:51:58
recommended, you know, planning for the job.
1:52:01
Of course, you know, the athletic director Morgan, Burke
1:52:05
Highland. He's being with Calvin Williams.
1:52:08
So, I'm doing the same thing. This is July 4th.
1:52:11
Okay, so my July, 4th, instead of barbecuing.
1:52:13
I'm spent, you know, I spent, I don't know, three, four hours
1:52:18
tops With my Calvin Williams, for the next day, on July 5th,
1:52:22
interview with my Babinski, you know, for the job.
1:52:26
And, and I, so I go back to my office, I'm waiting now to hear
1:52:30
what's going to happen and Calvin comes walking down, six
1:52:33
fans and goes congratulations. You're the new head coach.
1:52:36
So, yeah, you know, I remember asking Calvin.
1:52:41
Calvin, look Lonnie is gone. He goes Norbit, don't worry
1:52:44
about it. Enjoy your vacation man and
1:52:46
nothing's going to happen, don't worry.
1:52:48
Let it cool. I'm like, I don't know.
1:52:51
But you know, that that the plan to shift gears and fly back was
1:52:59
the best best plan ever, you know?
1:53:01
And so I just, I'm so thankful to be in my third year as head
1:53:05
coach here, how much when they said, hey your ear your tag,
1:53:09
you're in you're going to be the next head coach.
1:53:12
How much was relief, right? Somewhat of relief.
1:53:14
It like okay I'm here. I met, you know, a good And now
1:53:18
I'm going to become the head coach and how much was
1:53:21
excitement of like, oh my goodness, I get to take all of
1:53:24
my head coaching experience, my SEC, experience, Etc.
1:53:27
And now I get to run my own Big 10 power 5 ship.
1:53:33
Yeah. You know, thank God for those
1:53:36
four years at Murray State in the year at Campbell University.
1:53:40
Of course, nothing prepares you for, you know, a power 5, head
1:53:45
coaching jobs, you know, it doesn't but I'm way more.
1:53:48
Comfortable in that way, more comfortable, you know, not only
1:53:51
that I've got people to do things, you know, as a sport.
1:53:55
Yeah. So you so, when Manny left of
1:53:58
course, you know, that created an opening, you know, it was a
1:54:02
bass opening, you know, offense was gone, you know, I needed to
1:54:06
hire a coach, you know, I needed to, I wasn't sure whether John
1:54:11
all of them, the Cross Country Coach distance, both was going
1:54:13
to stay here or go, you know, to join Lonnie, he had options, you
1:54:17
know. So, you know, I had to hire
1:54:21
throws coach, you know, the bride leaves and he goes, you
1:54:25
know, joins learning green. So it was a lot of work, you
1:54:29
know, in a short period of time. So here I am looking for a jumps
1:54:33
coach. I'm looking for throws coach,
1:54:36
you know, and you know, was able to land down Jim ghanim.
1:54:42
Of course, we had a lot of everybody knows the gym.
1:54:46
Ghanim is no longer with me, but You know, he's now the throws.
1:54:50
He's now two jumps coach at the University of Texas.
1:54:52
So you know obviously it was able to hire you know the right
1:54:56
person and a good one at that was able to hire you know, good
1:55:00
throws coach. And so in a short period of
1:55:03
time, you know I was able to fill a staff get Mi snip to
1:55:10
recruit. Then Coach the 408 of the meter
1:55:12
Runners and so you know, we put together a pretty good.
1:55:18
You know the chemistry is right and it happened in a short
1:55:23
period of time, but I think it's the right staff that you go from
1:55:28
okay relief and excitement to, oh well.
1:55:31
Now there's a job to be done. I have to fill these positions
1:55:34
and what I've always loved about Purdue for the past tennis
1:55:37
years, you know, before that somewhat that the people you've
1:55:41
had on staff like some of personally, some of my good
1:55:44
friends, John Jim Gardner home and Jermaine Jones.
1:55:48
Jones your director of Ops, you know, she's awesome Pristina.
1:55:52
She's an amazing person Mi who I've known since an athlete.
1:55:56
I tried to get him to transfer at Mississippi State.
1:55:58
I mean just good people. And of course it starts at the
1:56:01
top with you and of course Angela which is an extremely
1:56:04
unique aspect on its own right as it is.
1:56:07
So tell us what is what's going on at Purdue?
1:56:10
What's got you excited? How are you know you're in your
1:56:12
third year? Yeah and it really to write.
1:56:15
Do we get a gap year for last year or something like that?
1:56:17
I don't know. Don't have that covid thing but
1:56:21
what's a how things go on at, Purdue what that what's got?
1:56:23
You excited? Well things, things are going,
1:56:24
good. Things are going really good.
1:56:26
It going well, you know, we just you're constantly recruiting,
1:56:31
you know, this, this Gap year has created, you know, a bit of
1:56:36
a challenge, we lost a couple of kids, you know, due to the
1:56:41
pandemic, do to, you know, their ability to take a gap year.
1:56:44
And, and to transfer, you know, Oh and as you can can see, if
1:56:50
you have a chance to look on this NCAA transfer portal.
1:56:54
I mean it's not only happening in the sport of track and field
1:56:57
but in all of sports, you know, student athletes are taking
1:57:01
advantage of an extra year. The NCAA is giving them the
1:57:07
year, an additional year, due to the pandemic.
1:57:10
And now they have an ability to graduate and to use an extra
1:57:14
year to work on a master's degree, right?
1:57:17
And Student-athletes of taking advantage.
1:57:20
Look the pandemic is caused hundreds of thousands of lives
1:57:26
but it's you know, it's helped a few student athletes with the
1:57:32
opportunity to advance their educational career by getting a
1:57:37
master's degree due to an additional year.
1:57:40
So it's been, it's been a bit of a challenge, you know, the time
1:57:43
off, you know, is a challenge not only to us here at Purdue
1:57:48
But, you know, all coaches, you know, around the nation, you
1:57:51
know, I mean, for many of us, we haven't seen, we had had a close
1:57:57
connection of close contact, close communication with our
1:58:00
kids, for months and months and months, you know, if you
1:58:03
remembered it was last March when things were shut down, and,
1:58:08
you know, we were able to resume training, some of them, you
1:58:12
know, in September and October, you know, that's a long time to
1:58:16
be off. Being without close contact with
1:58:20
your kids and you with your hands and your eyes on them, you
1:58:23
know. But, you know, the playing
1:58:25
fields are even level. And so, you know, we're just
1:58:30
we're lucky to be able to have a season this year.
1:58:32
What have you had to do differently?
1:58:34
Recruiting wise? My understanding is you're still
1:58:38
division one. You still can't have on campus
1:58:40
visits and you can't go do in home visits.
1:58:43
Is that correct? That is correct.
1:58:45
So what are you doing differently?
1:58:47
Recruiting. And And how does that affect the
1:58:49
international recruiting that your, I'm assuming that you're
1:58:51
still doing? Well, you know, I think those
1:58:55
schools with lesser facilities have benefited, I think the
1:59:02
playing field a little bit. Even, you know, student-athletes
1:59:06
can't come on campus and, and see those less facilities, to be
1:59:10
honest with you. So, those schools with really
1:59:12
good media resources, able to put together really good media
1:59:17
packages. Send out that these student
1:59:19
athletes, you know, you can package it.
1:59:23
You can allow those kids to see what you want them to see.
1:59:28
And so the playing fields are definitely in my opinion a
1:59:33
little bit more, little bit level.
1:59:36
You know because of that in with that leveling.
1:59:39
Is there. A is there less opportunity?
1:59:43
I'm not sure if I'm asking this correctly is there less
1:59:45
opportunity for scholarship? Because you had kids who were
1:59:47
able to use As an extra year because of Eligibility.
1:59:50
So the majority either came back or went to another University.
1:59:53
Meaning they're taking up scholarship is there less
1:59:55
opportunity for high school seniors and I guess last year's
1:59:58
Juniors for the next level for track.
2:00:02
Yes is created. It's created some really
2:00:04
interesting things and you're exactly right.
2:00:06
So the NCAA said, look, you know, you can give this to
2:00:09
nothing to scholarship but it has to come out of your.
2:00:12
We're not giving you more scholarships.
2:00:14
You know, you've got to decide what you want to do.
2:00:15
You want to bring this kid back? If you've got some other, you
2:00:19
know, sort of resources, they are allowing us to use those
2:00:23
other resources just for one year.
2:00:25
So they've kind of sort of relaxed, you know, some of the
2:00:28
restrictions but still, you're exactly right.
2:00:31
It's created a bit of a of an issue, not not so much.
2:00:36
Look, if you've got a really good student athlete and you
2:00:40
know, you have an opportunity to have them back for another year.
2:00:44
I would take that one. Good student athlete over one
2:00:47
that That maybe I have to develop, you know, I love a
2:00:51
developmental. So all in all I think the
2:00:53
playing fields are going to kind of dust is going to settle.
2:00:56
You know, the rough Seas will sort of calm and it'll be okay.
2:01:00
But I think the biggest thing is, you know, this this
2:01:04
additional year that many of these students have gotten and
2:01:07
they taking advantage of it, you know, by by transferring out and
2:01:11
advancing their to getting an advanced degree in last.
2:01:18
I'll let you go. No render, you got work to do
2:01:20
you so blessed that you would spend time with us today on that
2:01:23
same stage with at recruiting aspect there, you know, you've
2:01:26
recruited, many different places, many different styles.
2:01:29
Right from again sec to Murray State, etcetera, internationally
2:01:33
versus domestically here in the states with this kind of blip.
2:01:37
If you will this this extra years and stuff and things like
2:01:40
that. What kind of Rippling effects
2:01:43
will? This have meaning does this all
2:01:45
go back to quote, unquote, normal In 2022 or is this a, you
2:01:50
know, when you're recruiting, it's a four to five year cycle,
2:01:53
right? Because your kids got to go
2:01:54
through gradual, or, is this a four to five year down the line?
2:01:57
We may get back to normal with this scholarship flux.
2:02:01
You know, let me answer that a different way, you know, I just
2:02:07
talked earlier about how, you know, we had such a long layoff,
2:02:11
you know, we weren't able to put our hands and eyes and our kids.
2:02:17
But did you notice something? Have you looked at the end or
2:02:19
results? I wonder if we're training our
2:02:24
kids to too hard. It was as though there wasn't a
2:02:29
time off. It wasn't though.
2:02:31
There wasn't a pandemic. What kind Emma can we talking
2:02:33
about? You look at the NCAA results and
2:02:36
even the results, so far early this season, they adjust their
2:02:41
as good or better than they've ever been, they have ever been.
2:02:45
So, you know, The studies, the the Master's Degree, the Theses
2:02:54
that are going to be written because of this, pandemic will
2:02:56
be just for many many years to come.
2:03:00
If it'd be interesting to see, you know, what kind of study
2:03:04
come out of this time. All I can tell you that my
2:03:08
initial observation, my initial impression is maybe we're
2:03:12
training our kids too hard. Maybe they needed the time off.
2:03:15
So the dead bodies, 10 kilo because if you Look at the
2:03:18
indoor results just that he's just had this last month.
2:03:21
And so far this year, they just performing just on another
2:03:25
level, you know, from an administrative NCAA point of
2:03:30
view, I hope you know a sport is always a sport that they look at
2:03:39
where they can make cutbacks, or just guns, you know, already
2:03:44
we're seeing the NCAA second round, you know, The those
2:03:49
athletes that can qualify for that.
2:03:52
I've been reduced from 48 now down to 32.
2:03:55
So I'm just, I'm a little cautious.
2:03:59
I'm waiting to see how what's going to happen due.
2:04:05
To this time dinner, you know, will they, will, the recruitment
2:04:08
of student athletes change, you know, pretty much now, for the
2:04:11
entire year, we couldn't go off campus.
2:04:14
Those student athletes. Come couldn't come on campus
2:04:16
yet. We're still A recruiting will
2:04:19
they say, hey, look, you don't, you don't, you don't need that
2:04:22
option. You know, you look you able to
2:04:25
get those student athletes on your campus.
2:04:27
Now you know why I changed that interesting?
2:04:31
I really don't know and it's somewhat frightening, you know.
2:04:35
So we've just got to wait and see.
2:04:37
That's it. I didn't think about that aspect
2:04:39
as it is easier. Once something is taken away
2:04:41
because it was needed. I'm doing air quotes because you
2:04:43
can Define with what was needed and how long it's been needed
2:04:46
etcetera. But if you can show like, we'll
2:04:49
look, you're still fine without that.
2:04:51
It's easier to keep it off the plate if you will at that point.
2:04:55
Absolutely interesting. Yeah, we're gonna, we're gonna
2:04:58
have to fight to get it back, you know?
2:05:00
And then unfortunately a sport is the first poor.
2:05:03
They look at it, so it's a necessary sport, it's a
2:05:06
non-revenue sports. That, you know, that's the thing
2:05:09
that administrators mentioned in and of course, you know, the
2:05:12
bottom line is the bottom line. And that's very, very important.
2:05:15
But, you know, we contribute in a Of ways.
2:05:18
A lot of ways that might not be a monetary value, but valuable
2:05:24
in many other ways. Yeah, we got it.
2:05:27
I understand, we got to get back to what an institution is for.
2:05:30
Its, you know, this is goes back to defining what success is, you
2:05:34
know, it's not always the success is not only winning NCAA
2:05:39
division. One national title, that is not,
2:05:41
that is a form of success. One of the majority of successes
2:05:45
that coaches like you and coaches around at the Tree do on
2:05:48
a daily basis, is affecting young people's lives, right
2:05:52
there where you are. So whether you are in West
2:05:55
Lafayette, Albany, Georgia, affecting your, where your feet
2:05:59
are, where your two feet are right now, affecting young
2:06:01
people's lives in a positive manner.
2:06:03
That is success with institutions.
2:06:07
You're right there is a bottom line.
2:06:09
Don't disagree with that. For someone who's in the private
2:06:11
sector, I get that. However, what is the goal of
2:06:14
Institutions? And this includes the athletic
2:06:16
departments It's not just about not only is it not just about
2:06:20
winning the national title but it's not just about well what
2:06:23
what does that kid bring to this institution monetarily?
2:06:26
It's not all about that. What are we doing for track and
2:06:29
field? It's the greatest sport in the
2:06:31
world. Every body type every color,
2:06:33
every sex you have a place in track and field.
2:06:37
That's what's amazing about this sport.
2:06:39
Yeah. And you hit the nail on the
2:06:40
head, the ability in our sport to level the playing field.
2:06:47
Feel weird. You know, we've seen how you
2:06:50
know the final four that they've been sort of two levels you know
2:06:55
between the men and the women. Well how far we're training on
2:06:58
the same track we competing with traveling when the same hotel
2:07:02
that is something that not a lot of other sports can say that
2:07:05
they do. And and you brought up at their
2:07:08
economically you grew up in a village with nothing and you
2:07:12
grew up in a mansion you both are on the same Runway.
2:07:16
The measuring tape is the X same Mac.
2:07:18
What it comes to, who's going to?
2:07:20
Who's going to win the day? No, Bert, thank you for helping
2:07:24
me win the day, man. I learned about crickets had a
2:07:27
hard worker if that actually stood for, that's awesome.
2:07:30
A I'm just really, honestly, just so thankful for you to
2:07:32
spend time in season. That's I knew this would be
2:07:35
tougher doing the podcast and we've been doing it for over a
2:07:38
year. Now, I knew I'd beat it got real
2:07:40
easy. When the pandemic it, everybody
2:07:42
has time for her. Absolutely.
2:07:43
In fact, little known secret if you're still listening today,
2:07:47
This is Norbert and I second take we were going to do this
2:07:50
about a week ago and then all of a sudden I was like, I gotta
2:07:52
travel Mike, I got to go. So again, just so thankful for
2:07:56
your patience and rescheduling and just being open and
2:07:59
authentic today, man, that is the the number one gift you can
2:08:01
give others who will listen to this episode and I'm just so
2:08:04
thankful for that. My pleasure enjoy chatting.
2:08:07
Awesome and over. Thank you so much.
2:08:09
Appreciate you also listening today.
2:08:10
If you found value in today's episode, I'm going to go out on
2:08:13
a bet, go out on a limb and say that someone else in your
2:08:16
network with find. You from norbert's, really
2:08:18
unique journey. I really wanted them here really
2:08:21
to talk about that Murray State, Campbell those transitions.
2:08:24
You don't commonly see that. And so, I really wanted to hear
2:08:27
that, whatever it takes mentality that it's about his
2:08:30
family, taking care of his family first, and that to me,
2:08:33
you've been listening to the show, you know, I've been on
2:08:35
that passion of taking care of your life, not just that title
2:08:39
of Coach, but taking care of the things, that should be more
2:08:41
important, Family, Faith, Etc. So that you can do other things.
2:08:46
Great inside of coach, Jean. So please share this on
2:08:49
Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and over.
2:08:51
It's not going to see it because he's not on social media.
2:08:52
We're going to change that one day and have some Norbit isms on
2:08:55
Twitter. I'm going to make that
2:08:57
challenge. I'm gonna lose that challenge.
2:08:58
I bet but I'm okay with that but thank you so much for joining us
2:09:01
today. Check us out next week, we'll
2:09:02
have another amazing coach to connect you with a very great
2:09:05
day everybody. Jean.
2:08:47
So please share this on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and
2:08:51
over. It's not going to see it because
2:08:51
he's not on social media. We're going to change that one
2:08:53
day and have some Norbit isms on Twitter.
2:08:57
I'm going to make that challenge.
2:08:58
I'm gonna lose that challenge. I bet but I'm okay with that but
2:08:59
thank you so much for joining us today.
2:09:01
Check us out next week, we'll have another amazing coach to
2:09:04
connect you with a very great day everybody.