Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Cult Mom Lori Vallow Tries to Flee Courtroom, Shock Photos of Her Burned Children

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Cult Mom Lori Vallow Tries to Flee Courtroom, Shock Photos of Her Burned Children · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece damning evidence pouring from the
0:18
Speaker 1: witness stand in the trial of cultmom Laurie Valo. The
0:23
Speaker 1: jury has just heard a very disturbing phone call where
0:30
Speaker 1: husband number what is it, Jackie number four or five?
0:33
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go with four husband number four. The
0:36
Speaker 1: prophet Chad day Bell is speaking to Laurie Valoe as
0:42
Speaker 1: authorities frantically search his farm and are honing in on
0:48
Speaker 1: a so called pet cemetery, looking desperately for the remains
0:53
Speaker 1: a little seven year old JJ and teen sister Tyley,
0:57
Speaker 1: and you hear him in a tapped phone call talking
1:01
Speaker 1: to cult mom saying, I'm feeling pretty calm. Well, I
1:07
Speaker 1: bet they're not calm right now. I mean, Nancy Grace,
1:11
Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us
1:13
Speaker 1: here at Fox Nation and Serious XM one eleven, Jackie,
1:17
Speaker 1: I'd like to start off with those calls. Now listen,
1:21
Speaker 1: they're very grainy, So listen to Chad day Belle speaking
1:27
Speaker 1: to Lorie Value. So, so yeah, I'm very nice. Let no, no, sorry, Okay,
2:23
Speaker 1: I've got to bring in our experts and first I'm
2:27
Speaker 1: gonna just go to them individually. First, I want to
2:30
Speaker 1: go to journalist and author of When the Moon Turns
2:33
Speaker 1: to Blood, Lorie Valo Chad day Belle in a story
2:36
Speaker 1: of murder, Wild Fate, and End Times, the star of
2:41
Speaker 1: podcast two minutes past nine and Bundyville Leah Stilli is
2:46
Speaker 1: joining us. She's been on this story from the very beginning.
2:49
Speaker 1: I remember, it's not a story. I'm as spoke. This
2:52
Speaker 1: is real. You couldn't make this up, Uh, Leah. You
2:57
Speaker 1: know if my husband David called me and said police
3:02
Speaker 1: are searching the property, what why are police searching our property? Well,
3:10
Speaker 1: I'm on the way right now. These two didn't seem
3:13
Speaker 1: at all concerned. Hey, Lea's Attilie. Have you ever seen cops?
3:18
Speaker 1: You know? Isn't that the name of a bad boys?
3:20
Speaker 1: Bad boys? Get that? And there'll be a guy sitting
3:24
Speaker 1: in his easy chair in the dan having a beer,
3:27
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, cops start running through pursue
3:31
Speaker 1: it to search one, of course, and he just keeps
3:33
Speaker 1: drinking the beer. It's nothing new to him. Cops have
3:36
Speaker 1: been in his house searching many many times, obviously, so
3:38
Speaker 1: he just says there, keeps watching TV. It's like these
3:41
Speaker 1: two nobody seems surprised that the cops are there tearing
3:45
Speaker 1: up his property. Yeah, I think that, you know, it's
3:48
Speaker 1: it's a sobering phone call in the way that this case,
3:52
Speaker 1: entire case is sobering at the lack of urgency that
3:55
Speaker 1: Chad and Laurie had, at all the seeming emergencies that
3:58
Speaker 1: the rest of us can recognize happening around them. And
4:01
Speaker 1: you hear in this phone call Chad and Laurie picking
4:05
Speaker 1: their words very carefully. It makes me think, you know,
4:08
Speaker 1: at that point, Laurie was in jail and this phone
4:11
Speaker 1: call was maybe maybe new, this phone call was being recorded.
4:14
Speaker 1: They're being very careful about what they're saying. But yeah,
4:17
Speaker 1: I mean, I agree with you. If somebody said they
4:19
Speaker 1: were searching the property, you'd think, well, for what. So
4:22
Speaker 1: there's a profound lack of panic in Marie VALA's voice.
4:28
Speaker 1: That's a really good way to put it. A profound
4:31
Speaker 1: lack of panic. You know. I want to go to
4:34
Speaker 1: Rich Robertson, Arizona based private investigator for Brandon Boudreau and
4:40
Speaker 1: the grandparents owner of our three investigations. Rich Robertson, do
4:46
Speaker 1: you hear their voices? You know what? Rich? Hold on,
4:49
Speaker 1: let me play call number two I've got more listen
5:00
Speaker 1: you see science right? Well right, okay, do you want
5:24
Speaker 1: me to pray? Yeah? Pray? What about it? Rich Robertson, Well,
5:28
Speaker 1: I agree with Leah. The lack of urgency in both
5:31
Speaker 1: of them, I think is is because they both know
5:34
Speaker 1: that this is a recorded phone call from Laurie being
5:37
Speaker 1: in jail, so they're using somewhat coded language between the
5:44
Speaker 1: two of them. But I think what struck me the
5:46
Speaker 1: most was how uncharismatic Chad Dave Bell sounds to me.
5:52
Speaker 1: Just he just kind of comes across as a dim bulb.
5:56
Speaker 1: You know. I'm just trying to take in the sound
5:59
Speaker 1: of their voices. This is exactly what the jury is hearing.
6:02
Speaker 1: I've got one more call. Let's take a listen, m
6:13
Speaker 1: please go very home. I don't how Marvel so him
6:25
Speaker 1: and yeah, all right, okay call him? Oh yeah, yeah,
6:40
Speaker 1: how from somebody else who needs to talk through my life?
6:44
Speaker 1: This hire? Um? I am? I don't know, um can
6:57
Speaker 1: try yeah, call say, Which brings me to the question
7:15
Speaker 1: was it all worth it? Was it all worth it
7:18
Speaker 1: to have your sham marriage so you could what sleep
7:24
Speaker 1: with Laurie Valo? The cult? Mom? Was it worth it?
7:29
Speaker 1: And the backdrop to hearing this calm phone conversation is
7:33
Speaker 1: that her two children are missing. Of course, now we
7:37
Speaker 1: know dead and Chad Day Belle's backyard. Right now, the
7:41
Speaker 1: jury is hearing evidence. The cases have been severed. In
7:45
Speaker 1: other words, day Bell and Laurie Valo's cases are going
7:48
Speaker 1: to be tried separately. Don't know if this jury's ever
7:52
Speaker 1: going to even see Chad day Bell. That said, Laurie
7:56
Speaker 1: Valo is taking the plungs first. That's her doing because
8:00
Speaker 1: she filed a demand for speedy trial, which she never withdrew,
8:05
Speaker 1: and that is why her case is going now. Lea's
8:08
Speaker 1: attility joining us a well known journalist and author, Leah
8:13
Speaker 1: what is her cult mom? Laurie VALA's demeanor in court,
8:17
Speaker 1: You know, it's it's it's been two things for the
8:19
Speaker 1: most part. When she gets there in the morning, she's smiling,
8:23
Speaker 1: she's kind of flipping her hair, um, sort of giggling
8:27
Speaker 1: as the officers that bring her in chain her feet
8:31
Speaker 1: to the floor and kind of, you know, participate in
8:35
Speaker 1: this process of shackling her. But when it changed dramatically
8:41
Speaker 1: when we saw the photos of jj Entily, the autopsy photos,
8:46
Speaker 1: they were absolutely harrowing. She did not want to be
8:50
Speaker 1: in the courtroom, and all of a sudden she changed,
8:53
Speaker 1: She crossed her arm, she turned her body away, so
8:56
Speaker 1: no one in the courtroom, probably besides the judge could
8:59
Speaker 1: see her face, and slowly she kind of crumpled onto
9:03
Speaker 1: one arm, and it looked to me I couldn't see
9:05
Speaker 1: her face, but it did look to me like she
9:06
Speaker 1: fell asleep, fell asleep. Was she just closing her eyes
9:12
Speaker 1: or did she actually fall asleep? Hard to know. I
9:15
Speaker 1: couldn't see her face, but she was very still and
9:18
Speaker 1: sitting in the same position for quite a while, probably
9:22
Speaker 1: twenty thirty minutes or more. So, yeah, hard to know,
9:25
Speaker 1: but it was pretty profound that when she didn't get
9:29
Speaker 1: her way to leave the courtroom, that she, you know,
9:33
Speaker 1: the whispering, the talking, the smiling at her attorneys stopped
9:38
Speaker 1: completely and she just sort of folded into herself in
9:41
Speaker 1: her chair. Now, when you said she wanted to leave
9:45
Speaker 1: the courtroom, I thought you met she acted like she
9:49
Speaker 1: wanted to leave. Are you saying she made an official
9:51
Speaker 1: request to leave the courtroom during the trial? She did. Yes.
9:56
Speaker 1: So in the morning we were hearing from Detective ray
9:59
Speaker 1: Hermscio with expert police department who discovered was one of
10:02
Speaker 1: the officers that discovered the bodies of the children on
10:05
Speaker 1: Chad Babel's property, and it was pretty clear what we
10:08
Speaker 1: were leading up to. We were going to see a
10:10
Speaker 1: presentation of photos of those bodies. The judge broke for lunch,
10:14
Speaker 1: everyone left, and when we came back from lunch, there
10:18
Speaker 1: was quite a bit of frenzy in the courtroom where
10:21
Speaker 1: the attorneys went back into a private hallway with Laurie.
10:25
Speaker 1: The prosecutors joined them. You know, there was a lot
10:28
Speaker 1: of buzz about what maybe was going to happen, and
10:31
Speaker 1: then arguments were presented to the judge. Why why the defendant?
10:35
Speaker 1: Why Laurie did not want to stay in the courtroom.
10:38
Speaker 1: Her attorneys argued that her mental health was very fragile,
10:42
Speaker 1: as we know because this case has been delayed so much.
10:45
Speaker 1: But she, um, yeah, she didn't. She didn't want to
10:47
Speaker 1: be there. She didn't want to be there for this
10:49
Speaker 1: extremely difficult thing to see, you know, for everyone, she
10:54
Speaker 1: didn't want to sit there and look, and to be honest,
10:56
Speaker 1: I don't think she did ever look at the street
10:58
Speaker 1: to see those photos. So I was going to ask
11:00
Speaker 1: Yulia Settilli, who has been in the courtroom from the
11:02
Speaker 1: very beginning, Leah, I have never seen a defendant's fate
11:08
Speaker 1: chained to the floor. Was that in front of the
11:12
Speaker 1: jury to the jury see the chains. The jury could not,
11:15
Speaker 1: so it was pretty interesting. In other cases I've covered,
11:18
Speaker 1: you know, you hear the the ankle shackles of the
11:20
Speaker 1: defendant being brought in, and the kind of clink and
11:23
Speaker 1: and that sort of thing. She had some kind of
11:25
Speaker 1: there was some sort of fabric around this chain, so
11:27
Speaker 1: it didn't make any noise. So essentially she was brought
11:30
Speaker 1: into the courtroom, she would go and stand at the
11:34
Speaker 1: table that the defendant's table, and an officer would would
11:39
Speaker 1: affix those that that fabric covered chain to a loop
11:44
Speaker 1: on the ground, and then the jury would come in.
11:47
Speaker 1: As far as I know, I don't think that the
11:49
Speaker 1: jury could see underneath the table that she was sitting at,
11:53
Speaker 1: so I don't think they could see that she has chained.
11:55
Speaker 1: You know, certainly her hands are I find that really unusual,
11:59
Speaker 1: Leiah Setili. They must consider her some sort of a
12:01
Speaker 1: flight risk. Well, it's a murder trial, so I don't know.
12:04
Speaker 1: I mean, it's also Idaho, you know, things are a
12:07
Speaker 1: little different there, so maybe somebody else would be able
12:10
Speaker 1: to speak to that. Well, it may be different, but
12:12
Speaker 1: they are still governed by the US Constitution, and that
12:15
Speaker 1: includes the case law that has interpreted it. So David
12:19
Speaker 1: Leroy joining me, high profile lawyer joining us out of Idaho,
12:24
Speaker 1: the former Idaho Attorney General and former Lieutenant Governor, David Leroy,
12:30
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. I've never seen a
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Speaker 1: defendant shackled in any way in front of a jury.
12:38
Speaker 1: In fact, I, as a prosecutor who knew beyond even
12:43
Speaker 1: a shadow of a doubt the defendant was guilty of
12:45
Speaker 1: let's just say, murder, I would go to great pains
12:48
Speaker 1: to make sure the jury never saw the defendant in shackles,
12:52
Speaker 1: handcuffs and a jail uniform. Absolutely not, because that could
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Speaker 1: later affect the appeal. I think I cared more about
13:02
Speaker 1: it than anybody else in the courtroom because I did
13:04
Speaker 1: not want to fight for a true verdict and then
13:07
Speaker 1: have a reversal on appeal because the jury saw a
13:09
Speaker 1: pair of handcuffs. Well, this is very unusual, even in Idaho,
13:14
Speaker 1: way out here in the West. Look, I don't like
13:16
Speaker 1: people talking like Idaho is some backwater swamplan. Idaho is
13:23
Speaker 1: no different than any other state in the Union, and
13:26
Speaker 1: Idaho is subject to all of the interpretations of the
13:29
Speaker 1: Constitution that have been upheld by the US Supreme Court.
13:33
Speaker 1: So this is nancy, very unusual. The defense has the
13:37
Speaker 1: right to have ordinary street clothing for the defendant. They've
13:41
Speaker 1: not apparently chosen to do that here the shackles. I
13:46
Speaker 1: don't know whether we're debated between the judge, the prosecution,
13:50
Speaker 1: and the defense, but I wouldn't think that she's particularly
13:54
Speaker 1: a flight risk, and so it is unusual, and I
13:57
Speaker 1: have no explanation for why that's being done in this
13:59
Speaker 1: pecular case. Well, David Leroy, let's think this thing through.
14:03
Speaker 1: We already know that she threw a fit when the
14:07
Speaker 1: judge would not let her leave during the trial. And
14:10
Speaker 1: can I tell you something. The judge is right because
14:12
Speaker 1: if she had been allowed to lead during the trial
14:15
Speaker 1: later on appeal, if there is a conviction, she could argue,
14:18
Speaker 1: I missed part of my trial. That's unconstitutional. I have
14:21
Speaker 1: a right to be there that for every single thing
14:23
Speaker 1: that happens, And she would be right. Oh, absolutely has
14:25
Speaker 1: to stay for her trial. Judge Boyce has manifested the
14:28
Speaker 1: excellent control of this courtroom. Our Idaho criminal Rule forty
14:32
Speaker 1: three gives a defendant both the right and the responsibility
14:35
Speaker 1: to be present at all significant stages of a felony case.
14:39
Speaker 1: So the judge, I agree with you did the right
14:43
Speaker 1: thing and exercising his sound discretion not to allow her
14:47
Speaker 1: to be removed from the courtroom. That exchange between defendant
14:52
Speaker 1: and lawyer about a piece of evidence, about an objection
14:55
Speaker 1: about something that comes up in the courtroom takes instance,
14:59
Speaker 1: or if she's not there, some appealable issue. Well, here's
15:03
Speaker 1: another thing, David Leroy, let's follow this train of thought
15:06
Speaker 1: through to its logical conclusion. We know that Coltman Laurie
15:09
Speaker 1: Valoe wants desperately to gather the courtroom. She doesn't want
15:12
Speaker 1: to see photos off her dead children, burned, buried, tyingly,
15:18
Speaker 1: reduced to literally a bucket of burned fat. She doesn't
15:22
Speaker 1: want to see that. Well, I would argue she should
15:24
Speaker 1: have thought about that before she had them killed. But
15:28
Speaker 1: that said, can't you just see her making a break
15:33
Speaker 1: for it in the middle of the presentation, and that
15:36
Speaker 1: would lead to a mistrial, hung jury, a problem, a reversal.
15:44
Speaker 1: So maybe those shackles, which to her benefit are covered
15:49
Speaker 1: in fabric and obscured from the jury's vision, it's actually
15:54
Speaker 1: saving her from another trial and from some outburst that
15:59
Speaker 1: she would very likely producing court. I think it's also
16:04
Speaker 1: important from the prosecution's point of view for the jurors,
16:08
Speaker 1: who are having dreadful personal reactions to this horrific evidence,
16:13
Speaker 1: to see Laurie's reaction to that horrific evidence. She has
16:18
Speaker 1: been manifesting atypical emotions all the way through this thing,
16:22
Speaker 1: from the first appearances on. To observe her in this
16:25
Speaker 1: context I think was probably important for the prosecution. Arguably,
16:30
Speaker 1: I guess the defense could try to make some kind
16:32
Speaker 1: of argument based on that, but it's pretty thin soup,
16:35
Speaker 1: you know, to Lea's Attilly joining us, who has been
16:38
Speaker 1: covering the case as it unfold, is she wearing street
16:41
Speaker 1: clothes or no, she is. She is wearing street clothes.
16:45
Speaker 1: That day she was wearing sort of a powder pink
16:48
Speaker 1: blouse and a pair of trousers. She came back after
16:52
Speaker 1: losing this fight to leave the courtroom with a sweater
16:57
Speaker 1: on that she sort of hugged around her body. Yeah,
17:00
Speaker 1: she is wearing street clothes. Though. Was there any argument
17:03
Speaker 1: between the lawyers in front of the judge regarding her
17:06
Speaker 1: wearing leg shackles. No, I haven't heard it. If that happened,
17:10
Speaker 1: it would have happened before the trial started. Time Stories
17:26
Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about the trial
17:31
Speaker 1: of cultman Laurie Valor, and it's been a long time coming,
17:35
Speaker 1: you know, to doctor Dana Anderson joining us forensic psychologist
17:39
Speaker 1: expert and you can find her at psychology doctor dot com.
17:44
Speaker 1: Doctor Anderson, thank you for being with us. What do
17:47
Speaker 1: you make of a woman that many, including myself, fully
17:51
Speaker 1: believe orchestrated the murders offer two children as well as
17:57
Speaker 1: the murder of her new husband's last wife, not wanting
18:02
Speaker 1: to refusing to look at the photos of her dead
18:07
Speaker 1: children's remains, and that's all they are remains. You know,
18:12
Speaker 1: I've seen this as I interview defendants and custody. They
18:17
Speaker 1: do not want to be confronted with the truth, especially
18:22
Speaker 1: when they know so she's created this delusion, this sort
18:25
Speaker 1: of narcissistic delusion, and she's to avoid personal responsibility. Narcissist
18:31
Speaker 1: don't want to be confronted with the truth. They're just
18:33
Speaker 1: going to deny it the gaslight. They don't want to
18:35
Speaker 1: look at anything that you confront them with because underneath
18:40
Speaker 1: that tightly wound delusion that they've created, they underneath that
18:49
Speaker 1: that's we don't want to expose who they really are
18:51
Speaker 1: because when you break that down, underneath there those emotions
18:57
Speaker 1: that they're compartmentalizing right now, Underneath there there's anger, rage,
19:03
Speaker 1: there's other things they don't want to be rebuilt. So
19:06
Speaker 1: her escape route is not looking at it and denying
19:12
Speaker 1: the exists. She's still telling herself, like her narcissistic side
19:19
Speaker 1: of herself, that that this didn't happen. She's just going
19:24
Speaker 1: to deny it and compartmentalize all her emotions. And so
19:28
Speaker 1: to look at it would make her confront what really
19:32
Speaker 1: happened to her children, and she doesn't want to do that. Jackie,
19:37
Speaker 1: let's go to cut one sixty one. Now, this is
19:41
Speaker 1: what cult mom Lorie Valoe refuses to look at. Take
19:48
Speaker 1: a listen. Onund sixty one. She's found buried in a
19:51
Speaker 1: shallow grave on Chad day Bel's property. And when I
19:56
Speaker 1: say she's found, what I mean is what was left
19:58
Speaker 1: of Tyley was found charred remains, that's what was left
20:02
Speaker 1: of Tyle. You will hear it described as a mass
20:07
Speaker 1: of bone and tissue. That's what was left of this
20:12
Speaker 1: beautiful young woman, the defendant's daughter. You will also hear
20:18
Speaker 1: how Tyle's DNA was recovered on a pick, pickaxe, and shovel.
20:23
Speaker 1: They located in a shed on defendant day Belle's property. Okay,
20:27
Speaker 1: straight back to Louis Attilly. That's new events to many
20:31
Speaker 1: people that have been watching this case unfold. Tyle's body tissue,
20:37
Speaker 1: her DNA was found on a pickaxe and a shovel
20:42
Speaker 1: on husband number four, the prophet Chad day Bel's property.
20:47
Speaker 1: Could you explain to where that was found? What could
20:49
Speaker 1: you tell us? Yeah, that was that was new information
20:52
Speaker 1: for me to hear too. It sort of was a
20:56
Speaker 1: part of this um you know, amalgam of material that
21:00
Speaker 1: we received in the courtroom, which was that this pickaxe
21:03
Speaker 1: had some Entily's DNA. And then we were then also presented,
21:07
Speaker 1: obviously with the photos of what her remains look like.
21:11
Speaker 1: I mean, you said the word remains earlier, and that
21:13
Speaker 1: even seems like a generous term for what we saw.
21:16
Speaker 1: It was just, you know, I've been a journalist for
21:19
Speaker 1: twenty years and it was one of the most difficult
21:21
Speaker 1: things I've ever seen. It was just it was horrible
21:24
Speaker 1: to see what was the state of what was left
21:27
Speaker 1: of Tiley. And I think there's a lot to be
21:30
Speaker 1: unpacked there about. You know, who could do this? Who
21:34
Speaker 1: could who could reduce a teenage girl to this sort
21:39
Speaker 1: of state. For those of you that don't know, I
21:43
Speaker 1: will let rich Robertson PI, who has worked tangentially on
21:48
Speaker 1: this case, describe exactly what is a pickaxe. Well, it's
21:52
Speaker 1: a it's a digging device that has a pointed end
21:56
Speaker 1: on one side and kind of a shovel like the
22:01
Speaker 1: on the other end. So it's it's used for digging
22:04
Speaker 1: through through ground and dig and breaking rock, breaking rock.
22:10
Speaker 1: And on one end there's the sharp end of a
22:13
Speaker 1: pickaxe where you break up rock and dirt and objects
22:19
Speaker 1: that are hard to break apart. And the other end
22:22
Speaker 1: is kind of like a mini shovel And on an
22:26
Speaker 1: object like a pickaxe, is this little girl's body tissue? Um,
22:35
Speaker 1: I'll tell you another reason that Calt mom Laurie Valo
22:39
Speaker 1: doesn't want to look at the pictures that are going
22:41
Speaker 1: to be displayed in court, that are being displayed right now.
22:45
Speaker 1: And so help me Lord in Heaven, I would put
22:47
Speaker 1: those pictures up and I would leave them up the
22:50
Speaker 1: entire time for mom Laurie Valo to take a good
22:53
Speaker 1: look at what she had done to her children. Take
22:57
Speaker 1: a listen now to our cut two zero two. This
23:01
Speaker 1: is Detective ray hermus c opened the Rexburg Police. I
23:05
Speaker 1: want you to hear how he describes finding Tyle's body.
23:09
Speaker 1: As we began digging, we were on our hands and knees. Um.
23:15
Speaker 1: We started to uncover just burnt flesh, um, charred bone.
23:27
Speaker 1: The smell was again of a decomposing body. We had
23:35
Speaker 1: to take turns digging because the smell was so bad.
23:39
Speaker 1: We could only dig for a couple of minutes. Eventually
23:42
Speaker 1: we're uncovered bits and pieces of Tyley, who we assumed
23:49
Speaker 1: was Tyle Um, that had been burned. There were pieces
23:56
Speaker 1: of bone, Like I said, charred, charred flesh, um. Just
24:07
Speaker 1: the best I can describe is just globs of of
24:12
Speaker 1: a flesh that we're falling apart. Globs a flesh that
24:19
Speaker 1: we're falling apart. Now that is what is left of Tyling.
24:28
Speaker 1: Globs of flesh that we're falling apart. To Leah's attillity,
24:34
Speaker 1: was that flesh that was once the body of this
24:39
Speaker 1: little girl shown to the jury. It was yeah, what
24:44
Speaker 1: what you could make of it? I mean it was
24:46
Speaker 1: a sort of a thing I think that would be
24:47
Speaker 1: unrecognizable to you know, all of you, most all of humanity.
24:52
Speaker 1: You know, you don't quite know what you're looking at,
24:55
Speaker 1: and then it's described to you, and that sort of
24:57
Speaker 1: settled in that these you know, massive as he described,
25:01
Speaker 1: these these pieces bone shards sticking out of the dirt
25:05
Speaker 1: and teeth are Tyley. When the jury saw the remains
25:12
Speaker 1: of Tyley, which I've been told was basically a bucket
25:16
Speaker 1: of burned flesh, how did the jury react? They were Uh,
25:23
Speaker 1: it was hard to tell. I mean nobody in that
25:25
Speaker 1: courtroom wanted to look at that that you know obviously,
25:30
Speaker 1: and and and they were, um, I give them credit
25:33
Speaker 1: for that. I did notice one ju got very red
25:37
Speaker 1: in the face, and uh sort of at a certain
25:41
Speaker 1: point started just sort of looking out into the courtroom
25:45
Speaker 1: instead of at the screen. You know, became very those
25:48
Speaker 1: are those things being up there on the screen. Became
25:50
Speaker 1: very difficult for everyone to to you know, keep your
25:54
Speaker 1: eyes on. What were the others doing? They were looking,
25:58
Speaker 1: they were taking notes. Uh, they were you know, I
26:01
Speaker 1: got to say, this jury is is pretty um, pretty stoic,
26:06
Speaker 1: you know, but it seemed clear to me that they
26:11
Speaker 1: were the reality of this case was setting in. Um.
26:14
Speaker 1: You know, I think that there's been plenty of evidence
26:17
Speaker 1: up to that point that was clear what we were
26:20
Speaker 1: hearing about. But seeing these photos, the photos of highly
26:23
Speaker 1: the photos of JJ, I think that you started to
26:27
Speaker 1: hear a lot of sniffles in the courtroom at that point.
26:30
Speaker 1: And um, and and I don't know that that was
26:33
Speaker 1: some of the jury, but it wouldn't it wouldn't surprise me.
26:36
Speaker 1: As it was we learned more about the remains of
26:39
Speaker 1: this beautiful tank girl cult mom Laurie Valo's girl Tiley.
26:45
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut two zero four again,
26:48
Speaker 1: detective right Hermaco and you are hearing it just as
26:52
Speaker 1: the jury is. Once we removed some of that underneath,
26:58
Speaker 1: there was another they're um round glob of and and
27:07
Speaker 1: sorry for the That's the best way I can describe it. Um,
27:15
Speaker 1: just burnt flesh, bone, all kind of what appeared to
27:20
Speaker 1: be in a in a in a put in a
27:23
Speaker 1: green bucket. Um, the bucket had melted, so it was
27:28
Speaker 1: kind of desformed, and and the flesh and bone and
27:38
Speaker 1: um was all kind of stuffed in that melted bucket.
27:44
Speaker 1: David Leroy, high profile lawyer joining us from that jurisdiction.
27:49
Speaker 1: I'd have I don't even know if I could stand
27:53
Speaker 1: to look over at Lori Valoe and think. I mean,
27:58
Speaker 1: it's one thing to see a horrific image like this
28:01
Speaker 1: in court, but then to let your mind go to
28:05
Speaker 1: the place where this was done to this little girl too, tiy.
28:13
Speaker 1: And there sits the mom cult Motlaurie Valley, who didn't
28:17
Speaker 1: put up one poster, who didn't call and report her missing,
28:20
Speaker 1: who lied about her whereabouts, tried to avoid police, was
28:24
Speaker 1: out in Hawaii having a beach wedding during the search
28:29
Speaker 1: for her children, and it is husband number five. I
28:32
Speaker 1: got that wrong. I lost count. The prophet Chad day
28:36
Speaker 1: Bell is husband number five. And these children are found,
28:39
Speaker 1: their remains on his property and their DNA on his
28:43
Speaker 1: pickaxe and his shovel. I mean, as soon as the
28:48
Speaker 1: jurors let their mind go there, she's going to be
28:54
Speaker 1: up the creek without a paddle. David. Well, remember the
28:57
Speaker 1: defense that did have the opportunity and exercised it to
29:01
Speaker 1: do an opening statement on day one of the trial. Evidence,
29:06
Speaker 1: and their theme was that Laurie was a kind and
29:10
Speaker 1: loving mother to her children. The prosecution contrasted that with
29:18
Speaker 1: money power and sex. It made her a killer, and
29:21
Speaker 1: certainly the opening stage of this trial digs a very
29:26
Speaker 1: deep hole for the defense at once to present her
29:28
Speaker 1: as a loving mother. It's a tragic situation that is
29:33
Speaker 1: probably going to give these jurors pause for the rest
29:36
Speaker 1: of their life. The evidence that they're seeing, Well, you're right.
29:39
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our cut one six zero, that
29:43
Speaker 1: very open statement. Money power and sex. That's what this
29:49
Speaker 1: case is about. The defendant, Laurie Valo day Bell, use money,
29:57
Speaker 1: power and sex or the promise of those things to
30:02
Speaker 1: get what she wanted. What she wanted was money, power
30:08
Speaker 1: and sex. It didn't matter what obstacle she had to
30:13
Speaker 1: remove to get what she wanted. It didn't matter if
30:17
Speaker 1: the obstacle was a thing or a person, and if
30:21
Speaker 1: it was a person, it didn't matter who. So how
30:25
Speaker 1: do jj entirely their murderers fit into her desire for
30:33
Speaker 1: money power and sex? I mean, this is husband number five.
30:39
Speaker 1: How much more sex do you want? But okay, that's
30:42
Speaker 1: just a neither here nor there. But let's focus on money.
30:47
Speaker 1: Take las Nur cut one six two. This explains it.
30:51
Speaker 1: JJ had also lost his father, and when JJ lost
30:54
Speaker 1: his father, he became even that much more difficult to
30:56
Speaker 1: care for, no longer a second parent to help. Not
31:00
Speaker 1: only that, JJ also was entitled to Social Security benefits.
31:06
Speaker 1: The defendant didn't want to have to take care of
31:08
Speaker 1: JJ anymore. She wanted the money. JJ's gone. Yeah, Valo,
31:14
Speaker 1: he's dead. JJ's father is dead because he was shot
31:19
Speaker 1: right there with Coltman, Laurie Valley watching, and her brother
31:24
Speaker 1: with the pistol, Alex Cox. So that's what this is about. Money. Power,
31:31
Speaker 1: What power? Oh? I forgot riot Leo's attilly. She was
31:36
Speaker 1: going to be in power at the end of time
31:39
Speaker 1: and she was going to lead the one hundred and
31:41
Speaker 1: forty four thousand to heaven. Is that the power she's
31:44
Speaker 1: talking about or some other power? I think so? I
31:47
Speaker 1: think that that's exactly it is. That Chad Davil and
31:49
Speaker 1: Maurie Valo believed that they were the two leaders of
31:52
Speaker 1: the one hundred and forty four thousand prophesied in the
31:55
Speaker 1: Book of Revelation, and that it was up to them
31:57
Speaker 1: to determine who was a light spirit who was a
32:00
Speaker 1: dark spirit. And you know, those light spirits would then
32:04
Speaker 1: you know, ascend alongside them according to their belief. But
32:08
Speaker 1: those dark spirits had to be eliminated, and I guess
32:11
Speaker 1: JJ entailing were dark spirits? Is that right? So they
32:14
Speaker 1: had to be Kur's right. Oh okay, well that explains
32:17
Speaker 1: that all. I'm sure the jury will buy that defense. So,
32:20
Speaker 1: in contrast to the picture portrayed by the defense that
32:25
Speaker 1: she's a loving, caring mom and that she had an
32:28
Speaker 1: alibi for the time that at least JJ was taken,
32:33
Speaker 1: that alibis she was three or four doors down in
32:35
Speaker 1: the apartment complex and had no idea what her brother
32:38
Speaker 1: Alex Cox was doing with JJ. I want you to
32:41
Speaker 1: hear this. Doctor Pria Banerjee is with US Forensic Pathologist.
32:46
Speaker 1: You can find her at Anchor Forensic Pathology and on
32:50
Speaker 1: Twitter Autopsy Underscore m D. Doctor Pria Banerjee, take a
32:55
Speaker 1: listen to our cut two zero five more of what
32:59
Speaker 1: was done to Sweet Tilely. We were only able to
33:05
Speaker 1: work a couple of minutes before we'd have to get
33:08
Speaker 1: switched out by their detectives. We were able to get
33:15
Speaker 1: down all the way to the bottom of the mass
33:22
Speaker 1: and what the goal was was trying to get to
33:24
Speaker 1: the bottom to be able to lift it onto a
33:28
Speaker 1: tart or a body bag. As we got down to
33:31
Speaker 1: the bottom, there was a partial human skull. Under Time
33:55
Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace Dodger, Preya again, thank you for
34:04
Speaker 1: being with us. What do you make of what you
34:08
Speaker 1: are hearing regarding the state of sweet Tyley's body? What
34:14
Speaker 1: was done to this child? So it's horrific. I mean,
34:22
Speaker 1: I'm sort of speechless, which is rare, but I'm a
34:26
Speaker 1: mom first, just like a lot of us, and so
34:32
Speaker 1: leaving I can't leave that aside. But looking at it,
34:36
Speaker 1: you know, professionally, this is one of the worst states
34:41
Speaker 1: of a body described. You know, there's decomposition, there's burning,
34:48
Speaker 1: partial skull. Just identifying her as Tyley is going to
34:52
Speaker 1: be difficult and then trying to piece it together as
34:57
Speaker 1: to what killed her. It's un real. And you know,
35:02
Speaker 1: I think even an experienced detective or doctor like myself,
35:06
Speaker 1: we try to prepare, you know, when I go to
35:08
Speaker 1: prime scenes or when I used to like I used
35:11
Speaker 1: to have to be there digging up the bodies, helping
35:14
Speaker 1: unearthed them layer by layer, you feel prepared. But even
35:21
Speaker 1: this is just horrific, and the smell. It's not like
35:25
Speaker 1: anything anybody can really describe and capture, and you can't
35:30
Speaker 1: even really smell it from the surface. But once you
35:33
Speaker 1: start removing that dirt, it's gonna really hit you. And
35:37
Speaker 1: I want to juxtapose this testimony against the calm, cool
35:43
Speaker 1: collected phone calls you were hearing between cultmum Laurie Valo
35:48
Speaker 1: and husband number five, the so called profit chat a
35:52
Speaker 1: day bail. This is what was about to be dug up,
35:56
Speaker 1: and they're chatting so calmly against hope that cops wouldn't
36:02
Speaker 1: find the bodies. And as a matter of fact, at
36:04
Speaker 1: one point, Chad Davil takes off in a vehicle. They
36:08
Speaker 1: have to go get him. He knows what they're about
36:10
Speaker 1: to find. Now we've heard about Tyley's remains, take a
36:14
Speaker 1: listen now to what we learn about little JJ. In
36:19
Speaker 1: our cut one nine three, I observed the art team
36:27
Speaker 1: removed the top layer of soil in that area. As
36:33
Speaker 1: they began removing the top layer of soil, it began
36:37
Speaker 1: to expose three large white rocks and at that point
36:46
Speaker 1: there was a strong odor. Through my training experience, that
36:53
Speaker 1: was a decomposing body. Okay, is that something you've smelled before. Unfortunately, Yes,
36:59
Speaker 1: they scraped a weigh some more soil around that round
37:03
Speaker 1: object and it began to take the shape of the
37:06
Speaker 1: crown of It looked like the crown of a head
37:09
Speaker 1: protruding through the dirt. Okay, what action was taken? Next?
37:15
Speaker 1: We continued or they continued to dig around that what
37:21
Speaker 1: we started to call the burial site, and eventually exposed
37:28
Speaker 1: what appeared to be a small body wrapped in black plastic.
37:36
Speaker 1: At any time was that plastic cut into a slit
37:40
Speaker 1: was made in the white plastic, And eventually we were
37:45
Speaker 1: able to see that looked like brown human hair. You know,
37:49
Speaker 1: it's really interesting, and I'm going to throw this to
37:52
Speaker 1: our guests that know this case like the back of
37:55
Speaker 1: their hands. That would be Lea's Attilli and Rich robertson
38:00
Speaker 1: Arizona based private investigators of our three investigations. Rich, do
38:05
Speaker 1: you notice how he's actually been involved in this case
38:09
Speaker 1: as it relates to Larry and Kate Woodcock, who are
38:14
Speaker 1: JJ's grandparents. Rich, do you notice the difference in the
38:19
Speaker 1: way they treat they treated the two children. JJ was
38:26
Speaker 1: basically hermetically sealed, His body was intact. He was still
38:29
Speaker 1: dressed in his pj's and his socks he was wearing
38:32
Speaker 1: the night that he was taken out of Laurie Valo's
38:34
Speaker 1: apartment and killed, while Tiley was gruesomely dismembered, burned, and
38:43
Speaker 1: her flesh left and send globs and a melted bucket. Joey,
38:50
Speaker 1: I think we can only speculate us as to why
38:53
Speaker 1: they were different based on some of the timeline that's
38:57
Speaker 1: been put together. There's it's pretty clear that Tyley was
39:02
Speaker 1: killed some time before JJ, So you know, maybe the
39:10
Speaker 1: experience and difficulty of doing what they did to Tyley
39:17
Speaker 1: kind of informed them as too. They didn't really want
39:20
Speaker 1: to go through that again, whoever it was that actually
39:23
Speaker 1: did the act, So it's hard to know speculate all
39:29
Speaker 1: day long about that. I thought, psychologically, doctor Dana Anderson,
39:33
Speaker 1: it may indicate cult mom's deep hatred for Tyley, who
39:41
Speaker 1: was beginning to say things like no mom in question
39:45
Speaker 1: her father's death. I guess that would have been husband
39:48
Speaker 1: number two or three, Joseph Ryan, and becoming more and
39:53
Speaker 1: more difficult for cult mom Laurie Valley to control her
39:57
Speaker 1: hatred for TYLEI wan very deeply exactly. Yeah, everything revolves
40:05
Speaker 1: around Laurie's once needs desires, right, nobody can really tell
40:10
Speaker 1: her no, okay, And you know, come into contact with
40:15
Speaker 1: a teenager or a different opinion, someone that might challenge you,
40:20
Speaker 1: someone that might even say I think you're wrong. That's
40:25
Speaker 1: just definitely a conflict. And someone who's just so high
40:30
Speaker 1: and this narcissistic phrase. They can't take any even perceived
40:38
Speaker 1: rejection or they can't handle it. They can't handle their
40:42
Speaker 1: emotions that will come out, and they project all the
40:45
Speaker 1: negative emotions in themselves out on that person and as
40:50
Speaker 1: a way to get rid of those uncomfortable emotions that
40:54
Speaker 1: you might be feeling in response to this, So get
40:58
Speaker 1: rid of that person. It is horrifying exactly. And to
41:03
Speaker 1: you LEAs Attilia, who has been in the courtroom day in,
41:05
Speaker 1: day out, and this trial is happening right now and
41:08
Speaker 1: you are hearing testimony as the jury is hearing it,
41:13
Speaker 1: are the photos of the children's bodies or what's left
41:17
Speaker 1: of them up in the courtroom and also what is
41:21
Speaker 1: Cultma Laurie Valoe doing during this gruesome testimony? Yeah, the bodies, Yes,
41:27
Speaker 1: the photos are and to be clear, I think that
41:31
Speaker 1: part of what makes them so hard to look at
41:34
Speaker 1: is that. As Hermaso gives his testimony, we see step
41:39
Speaker 1: by step by step of how they uncovered these bodies
41:44
Speaker 1: what was left of them. So you see the dirt
41:46
Speaker 1: being removed, then you see poor JJ's little head sticking
41:50
Speaker 1: up through the dirt. You know, it's it's a very um.
41:54
Speaker 1: It makes it all the more real to understand the
41:58
Speaker 1: process of discovering where these missing children were. You know,
42:02
Speaker 1: the jury is looking at the photos, and the gallery
42:08
Speaker 1: is looking at the photos, the judges looking at the photos,
42:10
Speaker 1: and Lori Vello is not looking at the photos. I'm
42:15
Speaker 1: just gonna add, Oh, I'm just gonna add that as
42:18
Speaker 1: difficult as it is to look at the photos, that's
42:22
Speaker 1: exactly how it's done. This is doctor Bannergy. Sorry. You know,
42:27
Speaker 1: we have to document every layer to make sure that
42:31
Speaker 1: it's a legitimate x you know, on earthing of the body,
42:36
Speaker 1: and that we're collecting evidence at every step. Right, photos
42:40
Speaker 1: show the evidence. But this is not like just digging
42:44
Speaker 1: up a bulb in your garden and trying to get
42:47
Speaker 1: it done. This is hours of tedious work and making
42:49
Speaker 1: sure because you don't know going into it, Um, what
42:55
Speaker 1: weapon was used? Is there a bullet in the dirt.
42:59
Speaker 1: You have to sit exactly, and you may be asking
43:02
Speaker 1: yourself where was called Mom Laurie Valo while her children
43:07
Speaker 1: or what's left of them, are buried out at husband
43:10
Speaker 1: number five property in the pet cemetery. Take a listen
43:15
Speaker 1: to only our cut one seven two. This is what
43:19
Speaker 1: caught Mom Laurie Valo was up to while her children
43:22
Speaker 1: were out there literally rotting listening. I cut into the
43:26
Speaker 1: browsing history in the Amazon account, and I saw that
43:36
Speaker 1: there was browsing for a beach wedding dress, a bathe
43:42
Speaker 1: in suit men's large size. I think it was large
43:50
Speaker 1: white linen top and pants, and malachite wedding rings. And
43:57
Speaker 1: there were completely a little oddnan things I believe, maybe
44:00
Speaker 1: flipflops or something. Yeah, while our children are out rotting
44:05
Speaker 1: Tyler's flesh in a bucket, she caught Mom Laurie Vallo
44:10
Speaker 1: is online searching for her wedding dress to her next husband.
44:18
Speaker 1: We have to go because court is resuming. Goodbye from