Latest / The TechTrends Podcast / Freedom vs. Control: The Case for Regulating Social Media in Kenya

Transcript

Freedom vs. Control: The Case for Regulating Social Media in Kenya · The TechTrends Podcast

• 0:02
  This is the Tech Transport cast. You'll go to podcast for the
• 0:06
  latest in tech innovation and the digital world.
• 0:21
  Hello and welcome back to the Tech Trans Podcast.
• 0:25
  As I always say, the Tech Trans Podcast is where we dive into
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  deep. We dive deep into stories that
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  are shaping Kenya's tech culture and the digital economy.
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  My name is Nick Canali. My name is Alan.
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  And today, Alan, we are talking a very interesting topic, of
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  course, that has sparked a lot of debate, you know, actually
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  cause part protests, you know, in the last couple of days.
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  So we are talking about protests, we are talking about
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  policy debates, of course, some pretty heated conversation both
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  online and offline. And it's about regulating social
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  media. Is it a necessary step, you
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  know, in Kenya or is just a threat to Kenyans youth?
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  And of course, let me just take you back.
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  So since last year's, during the Gen.
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  Z protests, which of course a lot of young people took part
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  in, the government has been pointing fingers at, you know,
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  social media platforms like TikTok, you know, Twitter or X,
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  you know, and Instagram and calling on stricter controls.
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  And we've seen politicians jumping into this debate, just
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  making very unnecessary comments that there's need for Kenya or
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  the government actually regret social media in Kenya.
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  On the other hand, we've seen a lot of young people argue that
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  these platforms have been very, you know, beneficial for them,
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  right? You know, we're talking about
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  this part of creating jobs. You know, we're talking about
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  activism, of course, you know, and building communities.
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  So where is the balance? So let's set the stage and I
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  think, you know, I want your thoughts on this.
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  I mean, what role do you think social media really played in
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  the 2023? I mean the last year Gen.
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  Z protest. The 2024 Yeah.
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  So. On one side, I think major, the
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  big part was planning yeah, like just like online in terms of
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  collaboration of those people being able to add.
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  So like for for instance, you can imagine like enormous
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  circumstances bringing like 4008 thousand 10,000 people to to our
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  physical meeting. It will be challenging yeah.
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  But now like with the Twitter Spaces, you could find like a
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  Twitter space with more than 1000 people like actively
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  contributing yeah and like the voice, the voice could be their
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  voices being heard yeah. Then on the other hand, you also
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  that convenience in terms of like you don't need to leave
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  your job for you to participate in the conversation.
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  Yeah, possibly you've been working or you are even working
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  and you have your like laptop or tablet following through with
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  the debates going on. So one, planning, then two,
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  being able to convene multiple people from different
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  backgrounds, different backgrounds.
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  And then also the aspect of like engagement doesn't need to stop
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  to stop. Like at any point you can jump
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  in and and contribute. Yeah.
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  I think on that day, I remember, you know, of course some of us
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  took part to a lot of these online conversations.
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  And and I think it's a it's at that time of where we saw a lot
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  of social actually Twitter spaces to be specific.
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  Yeah, there was a rise in really consumption in order to what you
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  need to use of them. And you'll see actually people
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  joining and they were pulling crazy numbers, you know.
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  Yeah. And some of these numbers you
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  don't see politicians pull, you know, when someone just seen you
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  want to pull the number. But you politicians whenever
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  were not able to pull these numbers.
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  But you'll see young people organize these spaces, you know,
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  discuss what's affecting them. Yeah.
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  And, you know, that's why I don't like this idea of the
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  government saying that these protests were really fueled by
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  these platforms. No, the platform.
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  The platforms were basically convene us.
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  It's semi it's like for instance, if we met in this in
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  this studio to plan a protest this this building has nothing
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  to do with that seating. This chair has nothing to do
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  with what will the results of of it.
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  The thing is, is we are in the digital space and that one we
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  have to accept. And then also so the thing what
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  the Twitter space and the rest of the platform is just
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  building, making it easy for communication, which it's like
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  the way you use your own Facebook and Twitter.
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  It's up to you like the actual account.
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  Facebook has nothing to do with what you say it doesn't have it
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  doesn't every day doesn't give you ideas.
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  It doesn't for instance, in that meet in those meetings, there
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  was no official from Twitter coming and saying, oh, say this,
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  say that. No, it was more of use the the
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  platforms are here for us to be able to communicate.
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  And also basically it's the age we are no one really like we
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  don't need we don't need a stadium anymore like to just
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  discuss issues. Yeah.
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  So I think the major, the major part for the platform was just
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  the convening, the convenience. Yeah, but trust me, I I think,
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  you know, any other person, especially all of these
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  politicians were shocked or with what was happening during that
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  time. You know, and you when you see
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  this happen, as I said, you know, just earlier, I don't like
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  the idea of these politicians people like are totally talking
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  about and blaming social media for these because when you look
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  at it, they are these protest was just a symptom of the deeper
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  issues affecting young. People right you're.
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  Talking about unemployment, you're talking about high
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  taxation, a lot of issues that are affecting young people.
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  Yeah. And even just not actually
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  everyone because you could see a lot of even older people joining
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  this conversation, joining this, you know, protest, you know,
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  Yeah. So I think the government just
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  avoiding accountability and blinding social media.
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  Yes, I think on on one hand, there's a aspect of how do you
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  put control on something you don't on.
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  Yeah. So we like Africa is still like
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  facing in general Africa. We are still in the in the
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  aspect of like leaders wanting control, which is OK.
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  Like if you are in power and then you want to have control of
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  what is going on and and understanding, right.
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  But in most cases now with like social media, you can't really,
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  you can't really policy people what to say on the channels,
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  right? So the only thing that you can
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  do is instead of blaming, blaming the platforms is as a
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  leader, understand what is going on and then be be be interested
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  and be a participant. Yeah.
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  Then from there, once you have an understanding of what is
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  going on, then use the same channel to communicate to these
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  guys. Yeah.
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  You know, because I think knowing the government of the
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  day, it's, it's, you know, those governments where, you know, you
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  can't put Government Accountability in one sentence
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  with the current government. So they, I mean, they'll,
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  they'll find so many ways to try to avoid and just being
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  responsible, just being accountable for so many things.
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  And that's why you are getting these diversions about social
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  media as the cause of this thing.
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  Why not try and fix what's affecting?
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  Yeah. Like for me, I've I've said like
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  the president has goodwill and the president understands what,
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  what, what needs to be done. But the system, the system is,
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  is not yet fully aligned with the new vision of where
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  President Ruto wants to to take the country.
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  Then also on one hand, we are talking about also some of the
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  leaders who are still lacking integrity in terms of integrity,
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  in terms of how they handle issues.
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  So you'll find sometimes even some of the guys speaking you
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  sort of like, like if you're someone who has gone to school,
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  you understand how government communication works, how public
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  communication works. You you try to say for the
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  message this person is saying and you you like you, you wonder
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  like is this person talking for for himself or has he been given
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  has he or she been given a script?
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  I get to Quantico microphone and say and say this without knowing
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  that like whatever say you wanna say my if you are part of like
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  for instance, common Cabinet 20 MP nanny even if nanny and as
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  even if like the president, the leader might have been doing all
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  this good work trying to to make things work.
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  He used it to Mediaco Moja to blacklist Killa Quito in in So I
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  think nearly to what we need to understand is differentiate
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  zilla congregations like politicians are used to
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  congregations of groups of people.
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  So what you say in that group might not have a bigger impact
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  because not many people who are in that meeting.
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  But you pick this microphone, you pick that camera, you face
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  it, and then you say you you say whatever you say and then you
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  upload it on Facebook. Yeah, upload it on Twitter.
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  You are talking to millions of people, some who might not even
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  have ever had your name. But because of that YouTube
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  hashtag and the the aspect of like the platform to like
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  Facebook has 1.2 billion people. So that's a different, it's a
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  different like way of communication.
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  Yeah. Now should you like I keep
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  seeing for instance, like easy mistakes.
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  Is any these mistakes that for instance, like the MP of the
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  great keeps making, like you are so quick in the heat of the
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  moment, you want to respond sometimes as a leader, just like
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  just like for instance, the way Kibaki used to do week only like
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  there would be so many things being said being said.
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  He's listening like he's listening.
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  But then one afternoon he comes and he references everything
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  that has been going on and he says this is my answer.
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  So whatever this other person said, forget about it.
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  Now here is my official answer and the country.
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  Keeps quiet and keeps quiet. Exactly.
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  And you see, that's why. That's what the leadership
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  means, yeah. Like you should wait, for
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  instance. Sorry.
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  Like you should wait, for instance, even the MPs and all
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  that, wait for the president as the official, if he's the one
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  who is supposed to come and talk about this issue or if it's the
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  government spokesperson who's supposed to come and respond.
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  Just you are in cabinet, for instance, you're an MP, you go
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  make contributions, Alco, advise the president or advise the
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  person who is coming to talk on behalf of the government.
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  Then if you need to make your own, your own remarks, put it
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  very clear according to me. I think like this.
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  But then like you find like guys coming to speak and people they
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  think like citizens, confuse their remarks to the position of
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  the government. Yeah, exactly.
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  And you see, all this is really worrying.
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  And when when we talk about regulations, you know, the case
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  for and against regulation, so many things come into play,
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  right? So when, for example, like
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  actually go and rallies and talk about now we need to say we need
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  to stop these young people from using social media.
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  You know, what kind of regulation are we looking at?
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  You know, are we talking about the China style censorship?
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  Because of course, you know, in China, Yeah, social media
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  regulation is a very, very big, a very serious thing.
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  But you know, I was just reading out an article here that says
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  social media regulation in China is extensive and aims to control
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  content and ensure user compliance with government
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  directives. So I mean, does that mean
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  whatever the government says is what you need to do social
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  media? You know, so this includes
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  requiring real registration, social media platform, because
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  of course we seen a lot of people doing stuff on social
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  online with a lot of pseudo accounts, contact monitoring.
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  We've seen, seen things like censorship in China of specific
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  information that maybe might be deemed harmful or subversive,
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  you know, so a lot of things come into play.
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  So there's the real registration, which actually,
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  you know, in China we need to require to register your real
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  identity. So I think if if you're found
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  doing something using fake kissing Masudo, it's a very
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  serious crime. Then there's this idea of
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  monitoring and and the move of content that is deemed negative.
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  Last year we did an article about how technical, saying it
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  removed almost thousands of content, you know, videos from
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  the platform. Then there's censorship that,
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  you know, certain topics and such terms are blocked,
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  particularly those related to government officials, sensitive
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  historical events. And that's what makes me wonder.
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  I've been to China right so many a couple of times.
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  I really you really see negative things about China.
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  Maybe you see how you read about America, for example, there are
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  a lot of shootings have happened SG those my gun violence.
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  I really hear those such things in China doesn't mean they
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  happen. And, you know, when I was going
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  to, whenever I go to China, when I'm going there and I'm paying
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  for my visa, I don't apply as a as a as a journalist because I
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  think they're really put really into journalists.
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  Yeah. Journalists, Yeah.
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  So you have to do a lot of things.
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  Yeah. So this kind of release, are you
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  looking at the China way according to Ratuli saying, I
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  don't know, it's just it's. On one side, honestly for me
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  from a leadership perspective, there is a need to put control
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  on what some some guys to be honest, some guys misuse their
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  social media. You find like guys like for
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  instance, come is only trolling people Yeah use of like vulgar
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  language like things for instance like you wouldn't do
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  which are illegal then you shouldn't take them online
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  online so that if that kind of law enforcement happens for
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  these platforms then that is a good law enforcement.
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  The only worry is with the for instance camisole remarks is for
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  at all is when you are making when you want to make these
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  regulations. He was speaking as if he's not a
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  citizen. Yeah.
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  He was speaking as if he was like, for instance, like we were
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  in a country of monarchy and we, we sort of like, I think the
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  fact that he's the chairperson of court for. 25 years by. 25.
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  Years and then like. You saw like, this guy's the
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  committee and coming forward and saying no, he's ready for
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  another time. And he was like, and I was like,
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  I thought, I thought this seat should be serving the interest
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  of the interest of like so you can imagine.
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  So now imagine now imagine now having at all now sitting on the
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  seat and then starts making like so I feel I feel like on one
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  hand, enforcement of a proper use of social media should
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  follow the normal legal the way for instance, you know, with
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  catching to threatening people using misinformation.
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  Yeah, pseudo accounts. Those kind of things should
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  start like those effectiveness of those kind of laws are good,
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  but then the democratic rights of people having to use this to
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  discuss about the issues right then that one is shouldn't be.
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  Attached because my my argument is, you know, even as you talk
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  about regulating social media, that means when you're
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  regulating it, you're suppressing free expression,
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  which actually is a position right for me to say whatever I
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  want. Yeah, I think.
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  Most people are control, no. On one hand I disagree on one
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  point. Free expression doesn't mean
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  doesn't mean competition, Manners, yes they normal.
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  They as a normal human being and as a patriotic citizen you
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  should be able to follow this. I'm trying to find this name
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  basically like a good behavior. Yeah.
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  You see, like I if I'm using, for instance, Facebook for my
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  own personal postings and I want people, yes, you'll comment on a
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  name, but you find someone Amanda, I mean to my account and
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  uses that to start to start different.
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  And then also the way we address even like I would see like
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  comments on Twitter and all that.
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  The way we address leaders, the way we address, we address even
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  the leaders themselves, the way they address citizens or Kaduna
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  on a comment on something you see like that is beyond.
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  It's not about it's not about social media.
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  It's about the human behavior and the psychology, the
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  psychology of basically like the relationship and good man, I say
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  I'm yeah, Moto Yeah. So the way basically you can't
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  you can't walk around like cookie to Canada to and do that.
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  Yeah, so should be. Yeah.
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  So what I'm getting is, I mean, you have you agree that there
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  are concerns around misinformation now for content.
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  Those are very concerns, right? Yeah, they have.
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  I mean that's the fact they're valid.
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  That's why we see a lot of even Meta and the likes of others
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  platforms, TikTok, you have content moderators, right?
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  Just ensure the removal of harmful content on their
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  platform. You know, and these concerns are
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  valid, but I think the idea of regulating social media and also
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  suggesting as going the China way, no, you know,
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  constitutionally, constitutionally, I think that
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  will be really infringing on people's freedom rights, which I
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  don't know, I don't know. It's just.
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  We we should do the some place like there are a lot of
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  countries can I live freedom like TZDS could a bit of
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  separation on that Uganda suppression yeah Rwanda bit of
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  suppression but then you find. Rwanda, yeah.
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  You find you find in most cases for me, I tend to think it
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  should be a personal responsibility for for how we
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  consume and the kind of information to let us just say
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  whatever post you make online, if you are hold accountable for
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  that post like be sure this post as I communicate as I write
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  this, it's my footprint. It's my footprint and even
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  followed through to explain I have varied.
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  Reason for what I'm posting and my point is actually, you know,
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  I want us to stick to the what I cannot tell you and the likes
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  are saying so going back to the protest right.
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  So they're saying social media should be regretted because of
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  it's only things like the protest right.
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  But why are they avoiding the real issues affecting young
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  people? Why are the issues affecting
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  people? Because once you fix these
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  things, once you fix unemployment, I mean, trust me,
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  there are countries out here, people are saying very nice
• 21:39
  things about their countries, their president.
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  Want to see why countries say about nice things about our
• 21:42
  president, about our country? It's because things are working.
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  Yeah, like what, for instance, the president of Bukina Faso is
• 21:50
  doing. Yeah, he's a military man.
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  He's not doing it at the at the even in a very nice way and all
• 21:56
  that. But the results even yourself,
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  even as a citizen, when you look at the results, you are like,
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  hey my man, continue with what you are doing.
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  Even if we don't find you anything you can these results,
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  you are what we can already see. It's enough.
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  There are so many other countries who are under those
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  kind of like regimes, right? But then when you look at the
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  results from the decisions that have been made, when you look at
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  how the, when you are a leader in that, in that, in that
• 22:35
  country, for instance, you don't spend too much time talking
• 22:38
  about politics. You don't know the, you know,
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  my, my boss, who is the president expects these exact
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  results. So if we see you around going
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  around making reckless remarks, going around instead of staying
• 22:55
  in the office and doing the work, and then he doesn't even
• 22:59
  take a microphone at all. I have no, it's just so like the
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  same way. Like I'm saying like as a
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  person, personal responsibilities and comments
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  should be taken on whoever, whatever.
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  Even if you are giving feedback, how you say it and what you say
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  has a very big impact on whoever is reading.
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  Emma is watching your, your, your content.
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  Because otherwise like you might want to be communicating a
• 23:31
  certain issue, but the way you communicate it you you will
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  become more insightful than providing a solution.
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  Yeah, yeah. And that's why that I think my
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  point still be like, we need to stop dismissing, you know, the
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  economic realities facing this country.
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  We need to stop dismissing the things that are affecting a lot
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  of young people and even the country in general and just and
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  blame it on social media, right? Because if things are working,
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  as we said, I mean, we have so many things to say about this
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  country, right? But but my other worry is we've
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  seen, we've seen such similar statements being made from a lot
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  of politicians from Lex. We can actually and still end up
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  being implemented. We saw it.
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  I know maybe Mason political bus to come, Agashoggar, for
• 24:17
  example. You know, when they say, no,
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  we'll impeach this guy, We'll impeach this guy, end up
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  impeaching him. Now they're talking about
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  regular social media and almost all politicians are moving with
• 24:28
  that script. What will stop them from doing
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  that? They'll be talking about
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  extending the presidential term to seven years, I think.
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  I think where where there's a disconnect is the real question
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  should be who The Who do these people speak on behalf?
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  Yes, yeah, because they speak for.
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  Someone. Yeah, so and I think that's
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  where most leaders have lost it. If you are elected for like a
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  certain constituency, are you speaking on behalf of those
• 25:05
  people in that constituency? Yeah, they only say.
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  And if you have seen, for instance, the other time, this
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  place when you have an MP whose citizens are demanding before we
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  start a meeting, he needs to be in this meeting to a point like
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  you have to hire a chopper to get him from Nairobi to come to
• 25:35
  come. That is an MP.
• 25:37
  And by is doing what he's supposed.
• 25:41
  And and those, those MPs, you have not had them, you don't
• 25:45
  hear them talking and all that, right.
• 25:47
  But in general, my feedback would be let in terms of like,
• 25:55
  yeah, I wanted to say in terms of like dialogue, the dialogue
• 25:59
  should stop now being among leaders and be a national
• 26:03
  dialogue. Dialogue, not not national
• 26:07
  dialogue led by leaders, national dialogue led by
• 26:12
  community leaders, community leaders.
• 26:15
  Let guys come lament because even even like just to take
• 26:20
  things a bit like biblical, even when Moses guys were up in their
• 26:28
  heels, they were like, we don't understand what you keep doing.
• 26:32
  Oh, neither two you go out, you go on top of mountain and then
• 26:36
  you come say God is saying God is saying when will we see what
• 26:41
  did? What did Moses do?
• 26:43
  Moses say if you guys doubt me, then take one of you.
• 26:51
  Let him go up there and speak to him.
• 26:55
  If you can't trust what I'm saying, pick one of you guys.
• 27:01
  Let him or her go and speak with God.
• 27:05
  So in this case, you're saying like you need to pick everyone
• 27:07
  from. I mean, we need to pick, you
• 27:09
  know, committee representation from every community.
• 27:11
  It should now be, yeah, dialogue so that later I think what for
• 27:19
  me I'm seeing, and I think I might be, I'm not on overseer.
• 27:23
  I know that. But what I'm feeling is what the
• 27:27
  country needs to heal. They need to have an
• 27:31
  understanding that the president, their leader, the
• 27:35
  president who they elected, the citizens are looking for an for
• 27:41
  just an assure. You see, like the way when you
• 27:43
  are the head of the family, children's are looking for an
• 27:46
  answer from you. They just need an assurance from
• 27:50
  you that I hear you come, let us talk.
• 27:55
  Yeah, because. The same way God God.
• 27:57
  What does God say in most cases? Like, come, let us talk.
• 28:02
  Yeah, I think that's the same. And I think that's that's what
• 28:05
  was really, really failing us. Because you know what is
• 28:08
  happening, a lot of politicians, they need, you know, as you
• 28:10
  said, as the head of the family, you need to be friendly to me.
• 28:13
  But what we are saying is, is them threatening us.
• 28:16
  Oh, we'll ban social media. Oh, we'll do this.
• 28:18
  You know you can. You can imagine if you kept on
• 28:23
  having issues with your children and all that and you said if you
• 28:28
  continue like this, if you continue like this, if you,
• 28:31
  there's no solution there. But if you keep quiet and then
• 28:35
  one afternoon call your children and then tell them if you have
• 28:40
  many, in this case we have many, we are now like over 50 million
• 28:45
  Kenyans. So we can't have a national
• 28:48
  dialogue of 50 million, but we could have a national dialogue
• 28:53
  of representatives, right? And even if that can't happen,
• 28:58
  we could start having those communal, communal meetings and
• 29:03
  then now the final dialogue. And that would take it, will it
• 29:08
  would quash all these small, small meetings happening among
• 29:13
  even these are the politicians who are who are not satisfied
• 29:18
  that one. It will show.
• 29:19
  Yeah, I as your president, I have had.
• 29:23
  Yeah. Because you don't, you don't do
• 29:25
  that. It's that's when we revolt.
• 29:27
  That's when we go to the street and we start because, you know,
• 29:29
  I told you. To say, oh, suppress, yeah,
• 29:32
  suppress the social media. You suppress the social media,
• 29:35
  people come on the street, they come on the streets.
• 29:41
  You should deny the international community comes
• 29:45
  here. Yeah.
• 29:46
  What are we solving? That is not even as, as we look
• 29:49
  at this, you know, as we look at the bigger picture, you really
• 29:51
  believe regulation and freedom of profession actually can
• 29:54
  actually coexist together. Yeah, it can.
• 29:59
  It can. Respect for.
• 30:02
  The rule of law, the laws, just like I'll keep on referencing
• 30:08
  the Bible, just like even during the time of the 10 commandments,
• 30:14
  God made the 10 commandment to create order, right?
• 30:19
  The laws are there for us to have orderly way of doing.
• 30:23
  Like if it's business, the laws are there for us to have an
• 30:27
  understanding of how business is to be conducted, All right?
• 30:31
  The laws of the country are there for us to have an
• 30:35
  understanding of how to live with each other in a harmonious
• 30:40
  way. Yeah, right.
• 30:42
  The laws are not usually there to suppress the poor to
• 30:45
  suppress. No, they're usually there to
• 30:47
  help us understand how to do things as a country.
• 30:52
  Right. So once as a citizen, if we
• 30:55
  choose to follow the law, then there'll be order.
• 31:00
  And if we choose to have when there is order, we'll have
• 31:03
  better way of working. The same way it goes with
• 31:06
  leaders. As a leader, you if you choose
• 31:10
  to do things the right way, we won't be having issues with
• 31:14
  like, oh, we have corruption. I mean, no, of course, sometimes
• 31:18
  in many cases you'll find the selfishness of US who are
• 31:25
  leading even in companies, if a leader is selfish, you find
• 31:29
  they're using resources in inappropriate way.
• 31:33
  But in, in the, in the case where the law applies, then you
• 31:38
  find like, OK, look, you are the CEO, you are in charge of this
• 31:42
  and this, you did this according to the company bylaws.
• 31:48
  The consequences of this and this is this.
• 31:50
  So step down. And.
• 31:54
  Let either investigation continue or step down and let
• 31:59
  the company have a new leader. Fortunately, that never happens
• 32:01
  in Kenya, especially the Kenyan politicians.
• 32:03
  But yeah, but of course the entirety bit around social media
• 32:05
  regulation, it's something that we can keep talking, you know,
• 32:07
  from, I don't know, it's a it's a, but we have really unpacked a
• 32:11
  lot of course from what at all his comments with the big
• 32:13
  question. Of course, we really control
• 32:15
  this narrative because when you see these politicians talking
• 32:17
  about regulating social media, as you see they're speaking on
• 32:20
  behalf of someone, someone. That's something I forgot.
• 32:25
  When you ask about the aspect of regulate election and blaming
• 32:29
  the social media, I think what a trolley is trying to use is a
• 32:33
  certain concept of shifting the blame from this.
• 32:37
  So later let us talk about this social media.
• 32:41
  Social media so that people forget.
• 32:43
  Yeah, about that. It's not the problem.
• 32:46
  About this problem. These are the problem.
• 32:48
  No, let us talk about social media so that we shifted their
• 32:51
  attentions. But unfortunately the problems
• 32:54
  people are facing, it's real that people, some people are
• 32:58
  sleeping hungry. Yes, it's real that people, many
• 33:02
  young people are on the streets this morning.
• 33:08
  There's someone this morning who woke up and the evening is
• 33:12
  coming. He or she doesn't know what to
• 33:15
  take home. Yeah, because of luck jobs.
• 33:17
  So it's really like, as a leader, even, like, for me,
• 33:21
  like, I would be worried. Worried.
• 33:22
  Now my worry would be if I was in the seat, man, I would be
• 33:27
  worried because I would be responsible.
• 33:30
  Yeah, I love you say that they are shifting, you know, like,
• 33:34
  you know, trying to divert us from a lot of things because it
• 33:38
  could be the Finance Bill 2025 just being tabled in Parliament.
• 33:41
  And we're having this podcast talking about this thing just
• 33:45
  almost a couple of months to marking one year after the last
• 33:48
  year's demos, which also were involved around the Finance Bill
• 33:50
  2024. And we've seen a lot of you know
• 33:53
  it will be and his friends and the likes pushing how the new
• 33:56
  finance between 25 is really good.
• 33:59
  No new taxi. So I was even asking you why are
• 34:01
  you telling us this? Please share that document to
• 34:03
  this or me. We decided.
• 34:04
  I wanted to say that like that is called assumptive
• 34:08
  communication. Exactly when you have an
• 34:11
  assumption that you have not substantiated with with actual
• 34:19
  with actual data from like for instance, like even I've
• 34:23
  listened to the interviews of this, like the chairman, the guy
• 34:27
  who is in charge of the budgeting, you could like I can
• 34:31
  hear him say and some sometimes he doesn't have answers to some
• 34:35
  of the questions because he's afraid of the meeting and
• 34:40
  saying, OK, this has to go to the people for us to so like
• 34:43
  just share the document, have people read, let people even you
• 34:48
  see, like for instance, if we had a toll free number for
• 34:53
  complaints directed to the government, you know that helps
• 34:57
  you can write you can and then you have a belief that these
• 35:02
  comments are making will actually be read.
• 35:05
  But guys now are like I write and then.
• 35:11
  Exactly. So that fear, that fear should
• 35:13
  be first of all, address the fear.
• 35:16
  Have people have have have confidence back into the
• 35:20
  government. Then as the president, I would
• 35:24
  suggest like instead of having people speak on your behalf,
• 35:28
  Yeah, please, Mr. President, call your one agent.
• 35:34
  Tell them if like anyone who is working for the president, they
• 35:38
  should report to him. Not one agent.
• 35:40
  Then let the president or spokesperson of the government
• 35:44
  communicate. Yeah, the problem about when you
• 35:48
  talk about such conversation, having we mentioned government,
• 35:50
  especially the kind of government, we just get angry
• 35:52
  and you're like, Nah, there's not it.
• 35:54
  But yeah. Thank you so much, Alan, you
• 35:56
  know, for your thoughts. I know we are packed a lot, as I
• 35:58
  said, from of course, at all his comments, which is just.
• 36:01
  So what are you saying? Yeah.
• 36:05
  And to the bigger picture and of course, the bigger question
• 36:08
  actually really controls, you know, this narrative.
• 36:10
  So if you got any thoughts, and of course we do, we know you do
• 36:15
  because social media is very plays a very big part in our
• 36:18
  everyday life, especially for us people in the digital media
• 36:22
  space, social media is very big part of our lives.
• 36:24
  So it's 1/2 on social media, tech transmedia.
• 36:27
  And please, do you think the government should actually
• 36:29
  regulate social media or should it just focus on fixing the real
• 36:32
  issues? Of course it has to focus on
• 36:35
  fixing the real issues. Yep.
• 36:36
  So make sure to subscribe and leave us a rating as well and
• 36:40
  share this episode with someone who needs to hide.
• 36:43
  And of course, listen to this podcast from every other podcast
• 36:47
  swimming platforms you might be listening from.
• 36:49
  My name is Nixon Canale. My name is Alan.
• 36:51
  And we'll see you in the next episode.
• 36:54
  Peace. Special thanks to production
• 37:02
  team for making this show possible.
• 37:04
  The Tech Trans Podcast is produced by Tech Trans Media
• 37:06
  Studios with sound designed by Portable Voices and research
• 37:10
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• 37:13
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• 37:16
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• 37:20
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• 37:22
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• 37:26
  Podcast.