Latest / North Raleigh United Methodist Church Podcast / Podcast: Behind the Scenes: I am...The way, The Truth, and The Life (John 14:1-17)

Transcript

Podcast: Behind the Scenes: I am...The way, The Truth, and The Life (John 14:1-17) · North Raleigh United Methodist Church Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Good day, and welcome to North Raleigh United Methodist Church behind the scenes podcast, where we sit down weekly and talk about this Gummings Week sermon.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Kevin Van Hall.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: I serve as your moderator, and joining me today is one of the senior pastors here at North Raleigh, Kevin Johnson.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, Kevin.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: Hey.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, welcome back.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Well, everyone, I'd like to uh apologize for the long break that uh kind of happened uh this summer.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: We started the series of I Am, and we are still in the series of I Am.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um some things came up.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: Annual uh conference came up, uh vacations, other other pastors coming in.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's just been actually for a summer break, it's been very busy the last three weeks, and we've been absent.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'd like to apologize for that, and we're gonna try to just pick up where we kind of left off last time.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, we started the IM series, uh the bread of life.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um in the meantime, we've had the I am statements of the light of the world, and Brett Pardoot uh preached on the Good Shepherd, and Jen, our associate pastor, preached on the resurrection.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: And today, Kevin and I are going to talk about I am the way, the truth, and the life.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Kevin, that kind of sounds like uh three I am statements to me, does it not?
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: It does.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: We get to we get to combine them and think about what Jesus is saying there and think about why they're related together, and um and we'll do that together.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: It'll be good.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, excellent.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Outstanding.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: So we are in uh John's Gospel.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: All of these I am statements are in John's Gospel.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: We're in uh John uh 14, and just a little bit of background, uh Kevin, what's going on here?
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: We talked about this just before the podcast uh in these uh final chapters here, John.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so John really so in in in chapter 13 is John's picture of the Last Supper, and that's well, or really at least of Jesus' last night with his disciples, and that's where Jesus washes their feet, and where Judas leaves, and and and we see the betrayal is going to come.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: But then John 14 to 17 is really a a long, extended series of teaching that we get from Jesus, by far the longest in any gospel.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: And this is commonly called the farewell discourse.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: And it's assumed that the audience is still the disciples in the upper room that evening, uh, and Jesus is going to do, He's he's clearly trying to lay out for them things that he wants them to know before his death.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and things that he wants them to be able to recall after he rises, after he ascends, so that they remember about who he is, and so they can teach others after the fact.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's kind of what's going on in the literary context of what's happening here in John 14.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: And to put yourself in the disciples' shoes.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: They've just had a celebration, a great meal, the Passover meal.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um things are going well.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus, right?
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and Jesus is kind of changing the the tone completely to I'm not going to be with you much longer.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: And it kind of catches them a little bit off guard.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we'll read a little bit in the passages today that Thomas does being Thomas uh questions and asks some things.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Typical uh Thomas does he earn his reputation for saying things.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's where we are today, and Jesus is constantly trying to um uh reassure his disciples what's gonna happen and that it's gonna be okay, and what the whole reason and what the purpose was.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Again, we could sit here 2,000 years later and read about it and understand it, but while you're going through it, I'm sure it was much harder for them to take it.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think that's always good to remember is that I I think sometimes we paint the disciples as like dense or just, you know, bullheaded or whatever it is.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we're way too hard on them in that if we were sitting in their shoes, if we were schooled in the Hebrew scriptures like they were, we wouldn't have gotten it either.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it's a lot easier 2,000 years later, after all of this teaching and all of this tradition, to be able to say, well, duh, of course, but they didn't have that at the time.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's good to insert ourselves as we can into their shoes.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: In that in that time frame as well.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what we'd uh be talking about in today's podcast.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: But before uh we read and go into our questions and comments and discussion, how about a word of prayer?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Let's do it.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: Let's pray.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Holy Spirit, we pray that you would open us up to the word that you would have for us today.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: We pray that you would teach us, um, that you might help us to have the mind of Christ, uh, and that you would help us to hear your word fresh and new.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's in Christ's name we pray.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Amen.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, like Evan just said, we are in uh John 14, and we are going to be uh looking at verses uh one through seventeen.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: All right, Jesus says, Don't be troubled.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Trust in God.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: Trust also in me.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: My father's house has room to spare.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: If that weren't the case, would I have told you that I'm going to prepare a place for you?
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: When I go to prepare a place for you, I will return and take you to be with me, so that where I am you will be too.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: You know the way to the place where I'm going.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thomas asked, Lord, we don't know the way.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: We don't know where you are going.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: How can we know the way?
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Jesus answered, I am the way, the truth and the life.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: No one comes to the Father except through me.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: If you have really known me, you will also know the Father.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: From now on you know him and have seen him.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Philip said, Lord, show us the Father, that will be enough for us.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_00: Jesus replied, Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been with you this whole time?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Whoever has seen me has seen the Father.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: How can you say, Show us the Father?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in me?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_00: The words I have spoken to you I don't speak on my own.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: The Father who dwells in me does his works.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Trust me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me, or at least believe on account of the works themselves.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: I assure you that whoever believes in me will do the works that I do.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: They will do even greater works than these, because I am going to the Father.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: I will do whatever you ask for in my name, so that the Father can be glorified in the Son.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: When you ask me for anything in my name, I will do it.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: If you love me, you will keep my commandments.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: I will ask the Father, and he will send another companion who will be with you forever.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: This companion is the Spirit of Truth, whom the world can't receive because it neither sees him nor recognizes him.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know him, because he lives with you and will be with you.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, the way, the truth, and the life.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: The way, well, can be uh interpreted different ways.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, to me, it's right, I'm going to my father's house.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: I am the way to get to my father's house.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: But is that what he's trying to say?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thomas doesn't get it.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: What let's break this down into the separate ports.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: So, what is the way to what?
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: What is Jesus talking about?
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that right, Jesus is saying that in order to get so he said he's saying that the destination here is his father's house, right?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's where we're shooting for, right?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um in our 21st century minds, I think we think of that immediately as heaven.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not sure if that's exactly what Jesus is saying in that space, right?
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I I want to I'll muddy that a little bit for our listeners here.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um but whatever he's saying, he's saying into God's presence.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: And he's saying that the only way into God's presence is through him.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: So he says, right, verse 6, right?
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: No one comes to the Father except through me.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Uh other other ways might say by, but I think I think the word through is really key here.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: So he's saying that really he's the mediator to the father, that he is the way the in which someone gains access to God the Father, right?
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um of course that's gonna confuse the disciples.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: They're saying, well, what do you mean?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: And and and and and he says, If you've if you've known me, you already know the father.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: So he's saying, you already know me, then you know the father, because Jesus is gonna keep saying, and he's gonna say in verse 10 and go on, I and the father are one, right?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so we get this kind of mutual indwelling that happens, and we were talking some about the Trinitarian thought that's in here.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: The first aspect of that is that the father and the son, um, there's this principle, and I forget the theological name for it, but essentially wherever the father is, there the son is.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Wherever the son is, there the father and the spirit are, like, like that that they're always fully present with one another.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what Jesus is saying, in effect, here, right?
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: If you've seen me, you've seen the father, because I and the father are one, right?
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um and but Philip is like, well, Lord, show us the Father, right?
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: And and and we're sitting there saying, Philip, you idiot.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: He just told you, like, he and the father are one.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: But but but he can't quite grasp this idea, right?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so he's saying that and and he's just told them, right, a new commandment I give you, love one another, that this is also the way, right?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: So that the way is maybe not just um belief ascent in in Jesus, but the way is also following his way, right?
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Early Christians became known as followers of the way.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_00: This became a very key term for them.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: It was only before the cult.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: They were called the cult of the way.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Even before maybe the word Christian was applied to them, right?
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so um and I think that has to do with the way in which Jesus lived and the way in which they followed after him.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: So so it's also the way implies a practice, right?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: It implies a way of life.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and I think that's really a key.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um Well, it's a lot of things.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's the way to my father's house.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: It is the way to the Father, but if because and then he is in the Father is in me, so uh the way of the Father and the way to live a life that God wants you to live.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: I can see how it's confusing that I'm the way to get to the Father because beforehand they had the prophets.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: They had Moses, Father.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: The God was available to people.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: He was at the temple.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: And now Jesus is kind of saying, well, nobody gets to the Father except to me.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's like the mafia boss, right?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: You don't get to see him in the back room, you got to tell me.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think I think the importance of the word through, right, is that he's on the other side of his death and resurrection.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: This will make a lot more sense.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: That that it's through his death, right?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's through the death of Jesus that this life is opened up to us, right?
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is that kind of of course Philip can't understand that.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, no, and it also ties in the next part, the life.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: For sure.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: So go ahead.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's go ahead and expand on that and come back to the truth then.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: So he is the way, and we'll say, and the life.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: And my question is the life in in here on earth or the afterlife, the resurrection, that's we so often confuse which one is which.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that it's both.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Which is, you know, not my cop-out answer.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: I really think that the idea of, you know, earlier he said, I've come to that they may have life and have it more abundantly.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: That was in John 10 when I preached about the gate.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, he said, Yeah, I'm the gate for the sheep, and I I've I've come that they may have life and may have it to the full, or may have it abundantly.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's mostly referring to life on earth, but also in John 3, right, and this is where it's really fascinating to read the whole of John and to kind of think through it all together.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: In John 3, he's talking to Nicodemus, right?
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: And he about being born again.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: About being born again, right?
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: And he must be born from above.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: But he also says, you know, in verse in 3.16, right?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: God so loved the world that he gave his only son.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: So everyone who believes in him won't perish but will have eternal life, right?
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: So in there he's talking clearly about this eternal quality.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: He's not just talking about abundant life here and now, he's also talking about uh about an eternal quality of life that we don't die, that it's everlasting, right?
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and something like that.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I do think we get both of those things.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: I I think it's about a quality of life now, and I also think it's about a quantity of life forever with God.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so I think it's I think Jesus is saying both things, and he's saying, I am the life, right?
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: In in other words, the only way to this eternal life, the only way to this abundant life is also through me, right?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: And he's tied with the way.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the way to salvation.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: So he's the way to salvation, his way to the Father, the way to life.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Is he the way to a peaceful life?
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: He says, My peace I leave I leave with you much later on in in uh later in John.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um so is he also talking about the way I am, the way that I want you to live?
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we we we talk about love thy neighbor, love God.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Is I mean, it can be interpreted, you could see many, many things.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a parable.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: There's about four or five different ways that you can kind of read in and out.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I and I think John, I think John's really, really intentional about that.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't think it's I don't think it's just nebulous.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think we are meant to see the multifaceted view of it.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so I do think, yes, it's the way of salvation, and yes, it is the way to live.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, it is like so it's it's not it's not it's either that or this.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: It is it's yes, it is those things, right?
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's meant to be uh in all of these I am saying, what's happening now, right, is we're getting this buildup with these I am sayings.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: The bread of life was one thing, right?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um we could look at it in a couple ways, but but all of a sudden we've built these sayings here, or Jesus has built these sayings, and John has recorded them in such a way that now when we get to something as meaty as this, we have all of John's gospel to pull from to look at it, to understand it.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's John's intent is that we're looking and saying, hey, look at these other places where I said he's the life.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Look at look back to chapter one when he says, I have come that they may have life and may have it to the full.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Or when he says, and and he came and that life was the light for all people, right?
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: In John 1 4, and the darkness won't overcome the light.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um so we got all these places where life is uh is shining through and is a theme.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's I think we're meant to read that and to kind of live within it a little bit.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: So John, more than any other gospel, John allows us to kind of dig, dig in and ask those questions and kind of say, Well, is it this or this?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really helping us see that, well, no, when we look into it, it is a way, it's a way of life.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: Multiple, multiple ways of looking at it.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think uh I don't know if you agree with it or not.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think so often as uh times Christians we forget that.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: We just think of, oh, I believe in Jesus, I'm saved, he's just the way to salvation, sacrifice, and it's done.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: And we don't really try to concentrate on our living a truthful life the way Jesus taught us to live.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_01: All we do is think of the afterlife and the resurrection.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: We don't think about everything as a whole, like you just mentioned.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: We should take John as a whole.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, John as a whole, if we look at the gospels as a whole, right?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: Our our our simplifying down of salvation to say, well, or of the gospel, to say that the gospel is just where am I going when I die?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Is is is a really individualistic.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Jesus talks about the kingdom all the time.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't really in John talk about the kingdom as much, but it's it's all over this in how he operates.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: But when Jesus talks about the kingdom, he seems to be talking about how we live now, right?
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think there has been, right, since the Reformation, we have a concerted effort to make sure it's not about us earning salvation, right?
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: So so so the effort we've we've swung so far to make sure we're not earning it that we're kind of not so sure what we're so why it matters how we live.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like why do ethics matter if I'm already saved?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: If Jesus did it, and it's his grace, grace, God's grace all the time, well then why do I why do I need to live a holy life?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: But all over the place we have Jesus telling us, hey, love each other.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: Even as I have loved you, love one another, right?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: He's gonna say, This is the new commandment I give you.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: If he's giving us a new commandment right before he dies, I think it's pretty important, and one that we should live in, right?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: It seems Paul seems to say all over the place.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, Galatians especially, he is all about trying to explain to them about Jesus doesn't it doesn't give you the freedom of the flesh, the desires of the flesh.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: But but but it's a simplified reading of Paul that seems to say, well, it's not about anything you do, it's just God's grace, right?
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: And now I will say it's it's not about anything you do.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like I still will stand on that.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: And what we do is what Paul's gonna call in Galatians 6, right, the fruits of the Spirit, right?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: He's gonna say the fruit of the Spirit you or he's gonna say in 1 Corinthians 13, it's faith, hope, and love, right?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: That these things and that all it so it's not that we earn the salvation, it's that salvation is shown through how we live.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: John Wesley is gonna call this sanctifying grace.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: He's gonna say that grace works in our lives and makes us more like Jesus.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: In the tradition I grew up in, salvation the the the end goal of everything was making sure I'm saved and going to heaven, and then making sure everyone else around me was saved and going to heaven.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: That was that was what I grew up in, right?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: For a lot of our listeners here, especially if they grew up in the South, probably didn't matter what tradition it was, that was essentially it.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: And the issue with that is that it doesn't give me a lot to do once I'm saved, other than to make sure that I'm passing out tracks or you know, evangelizing everyone I know.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know where you're going when you die?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: And th this verse we're reading, say, John 14, 6, has been used along those lines a lot.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm the way, the truth, the life.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's a billboard verse, right?
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: You see it on 95 when you drive.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: And and and I think that's um it's not a misreading of the text.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's just not a full reading of it.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree with that.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Love that.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: Love that.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's not a full we do that so often, right?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Cherry pick a verse here or there and not try to lose what the meaning.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: We could So it's not that it's it's not that it's not about Jesus being the way to the Father and that the Father is in heaven and that Jesus saves us by his death and resurrection.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: It is about that.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_00: And it's about how we live in this life following the way of Jesus, right?
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's both.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: So in other words, so the Christian life then is both.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's about my personal holiness, me growing closer to Jesus, me growing deeper in love with Jesus and following after him, and it's about me caring for my neighbor, growing deeply concerned about issues of justice in our world.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: And and that those things are held together.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's holiness.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: That that's how Wesley explains holiness, frankly, I think, because that's how Jesus embodies holiness.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's social and personal holiness held together.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not that it's one or the other, and that's what our culture does so often, right?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: We've made these things, and it's a false, it's a false, it's a false paradigm.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: It's well, we get caught up in uh everything is competition to win, win, win.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm gonna win, and my reward is I first place I get to go to heaven, and now we do is concentrate on winning the race and going to heaven.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: And how about running the race in the way that Jesus wants us to run the race?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna push the conversation on uh a little bit more so we can cover the other part of this uh statement of the truth.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: The truth of what?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: What does Jesus mean when he says he's the truth?
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well he's gonna It's interesting.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: This is also another word we can trace through John, right?
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: So he's going to tell the woman at the well in John four.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: He told her, you know, we will we worship the sp we worship in spirit and in truth.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: And and and and so we get glimpses of that word truth early on.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: He's going to go, you know, we catch the word truth again uh in in chapter, I believe it's the end of chapter 18 or begin chapter 19, when he's held before Pontius Pilate, and Pilate is it's right at the end of chapter 18, and he says and Pilate tells him what is truth.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what Pilate's asking him right there.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's the last Pilate kind of does it as a mic drop in that moment, and then Jesus is taken and arrested and beaten from that from that moment.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: But I think Jesus is saying that so what's the opposite of the truth, right?
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well it'd be a lie, right?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: So so so there's or it's deception.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: And Jesus is saying that he is he is trustworthy, that he is the truth.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: I I was thinking about this in relation.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: He doesn't say I am that you need to trust me.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's not the verb form.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: He's not saying that he is true in this case.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: He's going to say he's the true something later.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: He often says, truly I say to you.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: Which is is it's not really the same word.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: So when he says truly I say to you, it's also verily I say to you.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: It it's it in Greek it's Amen.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it says Amen, I mean.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_00: So so that's when uh the old King Jimmy would have said, Verily I say unto thee, right?
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's how it said it.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's not even the same word.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: The the word the word truth here is Alithea.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um which which really I think in a world right now where you know we hear about you know, where we wonder, well, can I trust this thing?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_00: This this piece of news that came out, is it even factual?
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: Can I even trust, you know, we've all had instances where like, well, I saw something on Facebook or on social media or whatever, and then we realize that like it wasn't even it wasn't truth.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and AI is making things even harder.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: Even worse, but it's been bad before that, right?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it's been bad before a whatever administration, like this is it's not just tied to one thing, right?
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: But but but but but I do think that Jesus is saying um like like the idea of of of the truth is so hard for us to pin to pin down because we're like, well, there's always there's always an angle or there's always something's always being told slant.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um so for me there's great comfort in Jesus saying he's the truth.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um but it's also it's it's it's challenging.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: It challenges us.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that being held with the way and the life, um, there's just a lot to it.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: It so much so it's almost hard to like, it's hard to explain.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: It is sitting here like a noun, the truth versus truly or verb way.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: He's literally trying to tell you, like you said in the Greek, he's trying to announce it as a noun of I am the truth.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: And we can he's we can talk about the way and the life, and we lose that a little bit, but then he tries to go on and explain to uh Thomas and the rest a little bit about well, the truth, uh, the Holy Counselor, the Spirit, is the Spirit of the Truth.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: So the Spirit of Truth.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: So we get this Trinitarian, um, the Father is in me and I and in him, and now I am the truth and the spirit of truth as well.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: So now we introduce the Holy Spirit.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think it's important to think like so one way to understand the Spirit, uh an important way to understand the Spirit, right, is is to say this it's the Spirit of Jesus, right?
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: So this is Jesus is leaving us his spirit, right?
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: And and in the Gospel of John, when Jesus talks about being glorified, he's got he talks about being glorified, especially in this end section a lot.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: He says, the Father will glorify me.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: And when when he says glory, he means resurrection, death, ascension, all together as one big old thing.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's his glorification.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it requires his glorification for him to then give his spirit, right?
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so and when Jesus gives his spirit in John 20, like we mentioned earlier, like it it's John 20, 19 to 23, this is one of my favorite passages, but Jesus is in the room with the, he walks into the upper room with the disciples, he breathes on them, right?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: He breathes his spirit on them, right?
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_00: Spirit, breath, wind, same word.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_00: He breathes on them and says, Receive the Holy Spirit, as the Father has sent me, so I send you, right?
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: And and and so there's something there about this spirit of truth, the spirit of Jesus, that indwells the disciples, that when we have that spirit, well, then we are brought through Jesus the way to the Father, right?
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it's all Trinitarian connected back to the way, back to the way that we talked about at the beginning.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we had uh Kevin and I had a little conversation just before the podcast uh uh kind of discussed a little bit how we were going to um talk about uh this the way, the truth, and the life.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_01: So the truth is the one that's um, I don't know, it's a little bit harder to try to get exactly what Jesus is trying to say, other than literally trying to warn us to be careful about the others that will tell you to do it this way or that way.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: They are not telling you the truth.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: I am the truth.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: I what I've taught you is what the truth really is, because Jesus throughout warns us not only is he say goodbye to us and that he loves us, but he also gives us a lot of warnings.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm thinking about um thinking about the the passage, and I've got a I've got to look it up for you because I'm thinking about um here we go.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's yeah.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: So John 8.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean I think John 8 is the other link to that.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so that is, you know, you are truly my disciples if you remain to my teaching, faithful my teaching.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: John 8 32.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.
• 28:30
  unknown: Right?
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I I was thinking, I was like, I I was I was thinking of that verse, and I was like, is that John?
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: And sure enough it is, right?
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: You will know the truth and the truth will set you free.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that is vital.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um this is what John wants us to do when we read Jesus and John.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: He wants John has written a symphony of words.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's what it is, and and he lays it out in John 1, 1 to 18, that prologue that we sometimes read on Christmas, where he starts with in the beginning was the word.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: And in those 18 verses, we get set up with almost every word that is going to be a guiding theme through the whole of John.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's like that's why we call it a prologue.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: You could also call it um like an overture in a in a in an old school movie or musical.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: And when you have the overture and the sound of music and you're watching it, you hear Climb Every Mountain and Doray Me, and uh you he you hear them all.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then those are gonna get developed throughout the whole.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: And what happens in these final I am statements, right, is that he's rapping.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: He's rapping the whole of that.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a pretty brilliant move, but then we can trace those words throughout.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's I think it's it's it's brilliant.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: It can be brilliant just in a scholarly academic way to say, wow, what a what an incredible composition.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this is what happens uh when it's an old man writing and he goes off of his uh memory and wisdom and everything else.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, John's gospel is written much later than the other gospels.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: But it's also to say I think it can also drop us to our knees in adoration of Christ, and to say, wow.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that that that's why there's so much meaning, I think, to these words and why they compel us.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not just to make us say, I mean, we can leave it at a scholarly level, sure.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_00: But but I think something compels us.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: There's something for Laura and I about why we want to preach these texts and say, man, these are there's a lot of depth to these.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: They're powerful.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: They're very powerful.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: And and it's and as simple as the words are, right?
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: The way, the truth, the life.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Those are simple words.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: They're one syllable.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, shoot, man, there's there's there's a lot.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot to them, right?
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that's I think that's the fun of the fun of exploring it.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and that's the reason for this uh podcast.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: It gives us an opportunity to sit down, discuss it, explore it a little bit, talk about it, uh, raise some questions, and uh give Kevin an opportunity to expand on some things that he's probably not gonna hit during the sermon.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: So uh and encourage everyone to uh listen to this, but still come and listen to the sermon.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um we're gonna start wrapping things up.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: Kevin, you got to hit a lot of a lot of things on this Sunday in the sermon.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna concentrate on any one or uh talk about all three?
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_00: We'll definitely talk about all three.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think the key will be how they the key is gonna be how they interplay together.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay and and and and what that means for us.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: So that that's where we'll that's where some more study and prayerful work this week will get us to.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: So you you've also pointed out how it's not just how these three inter interwine intertwine together, it's how the entire gospel of John is.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh uh thank you for uh bringing that to all of our attention.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I have looked at John much differently than I have the other gospels, but I haven't looked at it as almost one piece, kind of like what you're talking about.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's pretty it's pretty incredible.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I I I mean, so so are like I took a whole class on the Gospel of John in seminary.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: So like I I when when I can pull out verses and stuff, it's it's not just like, oh, I I did a whole class on the thing.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was but it allowed me to get really deep into it and the way it was taught was almost in a way that kind of brought you into thinking holistically about what John was doing.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so so if I can do that even just a little bit, um even if it complexifies things a little bit for listeners and for that, I think it's good when it draws us deeper into who God is, which I think is what John's aim is, right?
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: Is is to do that.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: So excellent.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: I d I agree.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: I agree 100%.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we're gonna wrap up uh today, uh concluding uh this I am the way, the truth, and the life.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: And again, next week will be the last in the series, still in John, I am the true vine, and Laura will be teaching uh that.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: And then um before you know it, August will be here.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: Well, goodness gracious, yeah.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, but in the meantime, it's awful hot, so everyone try to stay cool and comfortable.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: Please do, yeah.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: And hope to see you again here uh at church on Sunday.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_01: Until then, may the love of Christ be with you always.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_01: So goodbye, everyone.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.