Latest / Curiously Guided Podcast / Ep.49 | WTF is “Mindset Work”? And How to Ethically Approach it in Life & Business with Emotional Intelligence Coach, Topsie VandenBosch

Transcript

Ep.49 | WTF is “Mindset Work”? And How to Ethically Approach it in Life & Business with Emotional Intelligence Coach, Topsie VandenBosch · Curiously Guided Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome back to the Curiously Guided Podcast, the place for intuitive business owners and curious minds.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_03: We're your hosts, Mariah and Che.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_03: And we have a pretty awesome guest in today's episode.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: So, mindset and emotional intelligence coach, Topsy Vandenbosch.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: And I hope that I just pronounced her last name right because I didn't double check with her before recording this.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's funny because I was listening back to this episode before I created the show notes for it.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I was just telling Shay before we recorded this intro that like I had to message Topsy and be like, yo, we should have a talk show or something.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_03: Because like I was obnoxiously laughing out loud while listening to this episode at the gym.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm pretty sure that like the people at my gym thought that I was not in my right mind, but I was having like the best workout.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_03: And Topsy's energy just in general is just like straight up infectious.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_03: But the way that she moves between like having fun and keeping things like really light and like um yeah, just basically really fun.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_03: And also then shifting into this like holy shit mic drop moment, like her balance between the two, especially you can tell in this episode, it just makes the conversation so enjoyable.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: And like there's so many golden pieces in here.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like I couldn't write enough in the show notes section because I was like, oh my God, we talked about that and we talked about that and we talked about that.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I had so many personal aha moments, especially in terms of like my own relationship.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: So, like learning about emotional intelligence and you know, like relationships in my family, and learning about like ethically approaching mindset in the relationship that I have with Andrew and like not projecting my assumptions on him.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_03: It was just, it was very fascinating.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that this conversation and just the different perspectives that Topsy brings to the table is very needed because I haven't heard a lot of these things in the way that she explains them.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, one thing that really just stuck out to me was like this episode, we really go back and forth between applying these examples to our real lives and applying them to business.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_01: And like so many times, the lessons we're learning in life can be applied to our business and vice versa.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought that was a really interesting perspective that Topsy brought.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like Mariah said, this we were so excited when Topsy said yes to come on the podcast.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: We knew it was going to be such a fun episode, and it was.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in the online space, especially, we talk about it really is the Wild West.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's not a lot of regulation, there's not a lot of rules.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've always been particularly interested in the difference between coaching and therapy.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, those of us that are out there being coaches and consultants, we have a bit of responsibility to know like what is ours and what we can work on and what isn't.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_01: And Topsy does a great job at helping us break down like, hey, this is my zone of genius, this is what I do, and this is where it ends, and this is when you need to go talk to someone else.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I I've never heard someone communicate it so clearly in a way that actually like resonated.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we get into a lot of juicy stuff in this.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking about being trauma informed, which is a word that we're seeing get thrown around all over the place these days.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: And not that it's a bad thing, but it's important to understand what it is, what it isn't, um, and when you should actually use it.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, the big theme of the episode, you know, how often do you guys hear the word about your mindset's off, or you have a bad mindset about that, or let's rework your mindset.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think, you know, Topsy has a great way of like we talk about these kind of heavier issues that have a lot of complexity and a lot of layers with a really light-hearted storytelling type nature.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: And it was just incredible.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like Mariah and I both were just having mind-blowing moments after mind-blowing moments.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I can't wait for you guys to hear it for yourselves.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: A little bit about Topsy.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Topsy van den Bosch, LMSW, is a mindset and emotional intelligent coach and consultant for business owners.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: She helps business owners identify, learn, and master the use of mindset and emotional intelligence skills in the leadership decisions made inside of their businesses.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: She has assisted in transforming the mindsets of hundreds of business owners and career-focused women over the past 10 years.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Prior to entrepreneurship, Topsy practiced clinical mental health therapy for nine years and retired from her successful brick and mortar private practice to pursue being a coach and consultant full-time.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: All right, let's dive in.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_03: All right, guys.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: So I feel like this episode's a little special for me.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, this guest we have here, Topsy.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_03: She's the fucking shit, honestly.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um I don't I don't even know where to begin.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like this whole intro that I'm like about to lead in with a conversation is just gonna be 45 minutes of me gassing her up because like I've worked with her on the client side.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: I've worked with her on being a client of her on kind of both sides, and I've been able to see not just the different sides of her business, but like the different sides of her.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_03: And honestly, she's just a genius when it comes to emotional intelligence.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I was in one of her programs, uh, I think it was it Destroy the Mindset drama.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, that was it.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I joined that one, and I just want to tell you guys the funny story of why I joined.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_03: So I've been on Topsy's email list for a while.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_03: And like, if you're not on her list, we're gonna leave a link in the show notes below and jump on it because like it's the most real, authentic newsletters I've ever gotten in my life.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_03: And so this newsletter came in and she was open up doors for destroy the mindset drama.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_03: And in the beginning, she usually gets a little um personal, just like catching us up on some shit.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, what's going on with her life?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: And so this week she kicked it off with saying some some story about like her husband hitting it from the back in the bedroom and literally at the bottom of the email, it was like enjoying destroy the mindset drama.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, take my fucking money, bitch.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like I've never had somebody be so fucking authentic in an email.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: It was embarrassing.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: I am so embarrassing at all, like at all aspects of my life.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's just me.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: I just embarrass myself all the time.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_03: But it was like that rawness and that realness, and like even me telling the story makes me laugh.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I was telling Shay earlier, I was like, I'm gonna come across as like a little, a little sex pot sex kitten here.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, but that's not the point.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_03: That is not the point here.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: The point is is that to connect with our people.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_03: Authenticity just says so much, yeah.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: So Topsy, I know your story of going from being a therapist to going into the online space.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_03: Can you just take us there?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what was that transition like?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_03: Why did you decide to quit therapy, go into the online space?
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I realized I've been a mental health therapist since um 2011.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it has been a long time.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I love I love helping people um become well and become even more of themselves.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that's always been my life's work.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's what the fuck I do, that's what I breathe.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't even feel like a job, it just feels like a calling.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I've worked with so many different populations.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: I've worked with um one of my favorite populations to work with was um the teens in the juvenile justice system or the juvenile unjust system, whatever you wanna, whatever you want to call it, whatever floats your boat sinks your shit.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: But I worked with teens in the residential treatment and I assisted in developing a sub an inpatient um substance abuse residential treatment program for teens.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so basically what that meant was I would go in front of the judge and I would um and you know either advocate and tell the truth about how those teens were doing in therapy with me and in their um sobriety or maybe lack thereof.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I fell in love with that system.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: It is just so amazing to see so many people, so many adults care so much about um how these teens are, you know, living their lives and the homes that they come from and just really making sure that they are set up for success.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that was probably one of my most favorite jobs ever.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: But as I kept going in my career, I kind of remember feeling like, is this all there is?
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like I want more.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like I just have always been um, I've always been hungry for more.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how else to say it.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like I want to have more impact.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: I knew that my clinical skills um could be used in so many different arenas, not just the field of mental health therapy, substance abuse.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: I used to be a um, I used to have my substance abuse counselor certification.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I've worked with adults in the criminal justice system, adults um on, you know, and in the correctional system.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: I worked in the prison, um, I've worked in outpatient treatment, I worked in the ER as a clinical social worker.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I even with all of that, even with all of that experience, all of that crisis management experience, I I worked in, I don't know, the adult mental health ER.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know whether your audience is familiar with that, but it's um we had something in the Midwest called community mental health.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so one of the services they provide was after hours mental health support.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: So basically it functioned like an ER.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so one of my jobs was to triage, triage these people who would walk in.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: These are people walking in.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and either maybe they're in psychosis, active psychosis.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: I remember um uh trigger warning for for those who um maybe are currently postpartum or experience postpartum depression.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I remember a woman walking in and you know, telling me that she had thoughts of, you know, um her baby not being here.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember having to just, it's like midnight because I worked the night shift.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I just had all of that experience, but I still was like, I know I could be doing so much more.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like what I'm doing is impactful, but how much more impactful could my work be if I took it to Hollywood?
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: If I I've always felt like that.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: I've always felt like I was this is gonna sound so fucking ridiculous, but y'all are gonna feel me.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: I've always felt like I was a fucking celebrity, okay?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: I've always operated like I was a celebrity, like I'm an important ass bitch.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: Y'all need to know who the fuck I am.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: I have always been very much a rebel.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like, I don't like management in the corporate world.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: I can't stand it.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: It was almost, I was a know-it-all.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was the annoying employee that always questioned the boss's decisions.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because if I thought it was stupid, I would say, this is stupid, right?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, I probably need to work for myself.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: I want to work in Hollywood or with celebrities, or so many different, there's so many other things I could do.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so I started, I so when I created my own private practice, therapy practice, it was brick and mortar.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I would go into an office and see people back to back all day.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I loved it, but it was just so much.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was dealing with so much trauma on the behalf of my clients.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was treating lots of trauma, just a myriad of different um issues that my clients would come in with.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I just remember being like, this is I'm not feeling affected by the stories that they're telling because I've learned how to um I have my own protective walls up when it comes to allowing it to affect me after hours.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: I really don't experience that anymore.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: But what I do experience is the after effects of it, which is the fatigue, the exhaustion, the, you know, the exhaustion from the worry, from the subconscious fear that this patient may not come back next session.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like I hope that they, you know, find the will to live.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like I, I, I don't know.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: You never know with people, right?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Especially when we're talking about mental health.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just started Googling.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: So my my therapy practice was making six figures, I'm bringing home good money, but I'm exhausted.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I had at that time, this was in I would say 2016, I started my private practice.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I just started Googling online, coaching, mindset coaching.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: I remember I thought I made up the term mindset coaching.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: So stupid.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: I remember being like, fuck, I did not make this up.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many, you could throw a rock and find a mindset coach online.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I guess I won't be doing that.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I ended up sending an email, random email to this therapist turned coach.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: And her name was Kate, Kate Craco.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: And she helped therapists, one of the things she did was help therapists transition into online coaching.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: And she had been an online mindset coach for some years and had retired from her therapy practice.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I hired her, and it was the most amount of money I had ever spent on anything um in relation to my career outside of um college, right?
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Outside of student loans.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: So she told me it was like, how much was it?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like seven, no, it was like$750.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: No,$497 for the intensive I did with her.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: And after that, my whole world opened up because I realized fuck, I was always right.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: I am a celebrity.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: I am meant to be famous.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to be famous.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I am also going to help people that live all over the world.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, my colleagues are gonna be like dripping in jealousy.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know how to break this news.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is how fucking conceited I am.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know how I'm going to tell them that I'm going on this new venture and I'm gonna eventually leave private practice, right?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: To be this coach, this celebrity coach.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I just had like delusions of grandeur, but I knew again that I was made for more.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so I just went all in with the coaching.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was very hard for me because um not all of my colleagues were understanding.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: I lost friends.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, people, when people don't understand and they don't try to relate to you or they feel as if because that it was the biggest thing was about the money.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: They felt in I will my perception is that I had many friends and colleagues that when they learned or when they watched my stories, they realized holy fuck, Topsy's able to charge X amount while we're making right.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I was still making$125 an hour, which is fucking crazy from insurance companies.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: Topsy's able to make, you know, quadruple that like she could breathe.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's the way they perceived it.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: I could breathe and just make money.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I really saw how jealousy and envy can happen to any of us.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I slowly started realizing that they don't know how to relate.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is so weird to me.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like, why are you so intimidated?
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: Why are you so jealous?
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you could have this too.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm now, I'm no different, you know?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so it just really made me go harder.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so I ended up um killing it in the coaching business.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and luckily for me, um, I was really feeling like, you know what, I think I'm ready to close down this therapy practice.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: And um, at least for a while, right?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because I wanted to see where the coaching and consulting thing goes when I have all of my attention on that.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so 2020 came, the pit the panini came, the pandemic.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my husband ended up unfortunately being laid off from a hospital system.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: He's a doctor.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they laid off tons of doctors.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: That hospital system laid off like 40 and from the city we were from, which is a lot.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I just said, fuck it.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: We're moving to California.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm making really, really good money.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: I have a fuck ton of money and savings.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Let's fucking go.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so I ended up giving my therapy practice clients some months, um, some heads up.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because they knew I was closing it down anyways.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so that's what I did.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then we moved out here.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: And um, it's had it has been a journey ever since.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: But I told y'all before we started recording that moving out here is one of the best things I could have ever done for my career in terms of the connections.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when I want to, you know, I was signed to a um podcast, uh, oh, what is it?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: A podcast like media company.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so I could go into the city, into LA and record with people.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it has just been amazing the connections I've been able to make.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_00: And what's up, celebrity?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: I know what see, you see what I'm saying?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's why it's important for us to speak what we want to see so that we see what we said.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Speak what speak what you seek, so you can see what you said.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: That is exactly how because I always thought I was a celebrity.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: Guess what?
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm out here in LA and it's like a normal Monday, you know what I mean?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm out to lunch with my favorite person.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's nothing, right?
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's just the way it gets to be out here.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that's why it's really important to declare what it is that you want because the way that it'll manifest for you is going to be beyond your wildest dreams.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: But you gotta do what nobody else is willing to do in order to have what you really fucking want.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: You just gotta go after it.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so I'm here today and it's been amazing.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's been fucking great.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's been hard at times, but I'm just so thankful that I decided that I was meant for more.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, well, I wrote down I'm an important ass bitch, and I'm gonna have that on a post-it note for the on my computer for the rest of my life.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's one fantastic.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: Tell us about like so you got to LA, you bring us up to speed.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: How has the business changed and shifted from just coaching into what it is now?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it has, I think my business has changed because I've changed.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: I am so secure in myself.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: I I feel like now that I live out here, I just know that anything is possible.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Anything, anything you want to have happen, it can happen for you.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I think one of the coolest things that's happened in my career was being signed to a podcast network.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was signed to Dear Media, which is a pretty huge podcast network.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's based out here in LA, I think, and now they have um offices in Austin, but there's so much incredible talent that's signed to the network.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: And even just from having my podcast, just like one season, the relationships I was able to build, the people I was able to interview, and I was able to be on their podcast.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: One of those um people, she's super, super dope.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Jaclyn Johnson, I don't know if your listeners know of her, but she is the create the creator of the event um Create Cultivate.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: And she's incredible.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I got to interview her on my podcast and I was on hers.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember going to Create Cultivate, y'all, in 2018 in New York.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I just remember being like, I am going to meet her.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: I had no idea how it was gonna happen, but I set the intention and I said, I'm going to meet her.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to probably interview her, maybe be friends with her.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what that's gonna look like.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: And lo and behold, we end up being signed to the same fucking podcast network.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I interview her for my podcast and she interviews me.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it was so cool to see that come to fruition.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say, moving here and the way it's changed my career is really open my eyes to all that's possible when you get out of your own way.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, all that's possible when you are secure in yourself and in your skill set, because I will never compromise who the fuck I am to get where it is I want to go.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that's a promise I made to myself a long time ago because in corporate world, especially as a black woman, um, I always felt like I needed to conform.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: There were certain hairstyles I couldn't get because the colors would be considered quote unquote ghetto or unprofessional.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I just couldn't be my full self.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: And so I decided when I became a business owner, I am going to do what the fuck I want.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna show up how the fuck I want to.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: And that has never changed.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: I don't give a fuck who I'm interviewing, who I'm talking to.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: I am not going to pretend like I'm somebody I'm not.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: So if the way I speak bothers you, if the way I curse bothers you, you're gonna have to get the fuck on.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care how much money you've made.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care about any of that.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: I care about being fully human and allowing your full humanity to show through.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's something else that I realized about myself is that I am myself, no matter what fucking room I'm in.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care whether I'm on a Hollywood set, I don't care whether I'm out to dinner with, you know, the people that you watch in your fucking movie.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't give a fuck who Topsy is right now.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's who the fuck I am to everyone, because I have made that a um a goal.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's why my business flourished the way that it did, is because I'm not willing to compromise who I am for the dreams that I want.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_03: Which is a beautiful perspective because a lot of people tend to do that when they go to Hollywood, when they start living in SoCal and like hanging out.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they put themselves in somebody else's boxes.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_03: And like I truly think that honestly, being your well, I think this is why I appreciate who you are so much, is because I have similar values of like the authenticity, like that is the magic in whatever way that means for you.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like, whether you want to curse, whether you don't, whether you want to introvert, extrovert, I don't really care what label you want to put on yourself, but like who you are at your core, that's the magic and that's the juice.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, I like what you said about and well, I like what you said about like your business evolving, like because you evolved.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_03: And that's a piece in the online business world, especially, that we tend to miss a little bit.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's like we start hearing, hey, if you change your Instagram bio too much, you look unprofessional.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_03: If you change your services too much, you look on you look like you don't know what you're doing.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_03: And it's like, but the truth is that businesses can evolve when we evolve, when we allow them to.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_03: We have to create the space for that.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, and you have to be, you also have to be willing for it not to land for some people, you know, because and that and I'm not gonna lie and say that that's easy for me, you know.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's definitely I I know for a 100% fact that there have been people that I would love to have been in some type of business relationship with, even just to interview on a podcast, and they were turned off by who I am, and that stings, right?
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: And so what I noticed hurts, it does, especially when you hear that um secondhand from somebody, right?
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: But what you have to know is that what's meant for you is never gonna pass you by.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not gonna fucking sell out because you didn't see the value in me.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: I see the value in me, and that's enough.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: God sees the value in me.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need for you to see the value in me.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you have that as your basic belief, your core belief, that I don't need other people to see my value before I see it in myself, you're fucking unstoppable.
• 23:44
  unknown: True.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_03: You're unstoppable.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_03: Can everybody tell that Topsy is a projector with all of her fucking high-level wisdom that she's spewing?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: I really am though.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: I am a projector baby.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a projector baby through and through.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: I own it.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_03: I just wanted to slide in here mid-episode and fill you in on some cool things quick.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: So we are in our third season of Curiously Guided, and there's nothing that fires us up more than making this podcast and hearing all the positive impacts it's having on our listeners.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_03: Up until this point, this has been a pure passion project.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_03: But we've got bills and expenses for this podcast, y'all.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: If you have the means and would love to support us in creating new episodes, feel free to head over to curiouslyguided.com slash support to buy us a coffee.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: And if you want even a deeper dive, we're excited to offer.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna now um start doing some strategy sessions where you get both Mariah and I's brains on your business.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: And um there's nowhere else in the world where you can we Mariah and I both don't work with people in such micro ways.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: So this is kind of a cool thing to get both of us looking at your business in kind of like a one-off strategy session.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: Just imagine us two and you together diving deeper on your business, marketing sales, and everything in between, um, all while filtering it through the lens of strategy energetics and energetics, which you know is our style.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: So if you want to learn more about what working with Mariah and I could look like, head on over to our website, curiously guided.com slash session, to get the details.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you guys so much for hanging out with us.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: We appreciate you so, so much.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: Now let's get back into the episode.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh also I've had goosebumps the entire time you've been talking like this.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's no world.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just this is like a regular Thursday, honey.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: This is a regular Thursday.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: Everything.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I have a selfish question I want to ask you, Topsi.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: I Mariah and I have been in this online world for a while, as you have too, but I don't have all the perspective that you have.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um, one question that I have a lot, I've worked with a lot of coaches and a lot of therapists.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think is the difference?
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: What is the difference between like a coach and a therapist and when do you take one or the other?
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: So um the way that I, so everyone's gonna say something different.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: I know the way that I um the way that I have seen it and the way I've seen the difference is that coaching um really helps you um address what the goals, the barriers, the objectives are that are in your way of getting to where it is that you want to go.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe you want to hire a career coach, right?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: So that career coach is gonna help you discover what has been standing in your way of getting to the career that you want.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so you guys are gonna address those barriers.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: But what you're not gonna address is the emotional health barriers that can get in the way, which is, you know, maybe you have a bipolar diagnosis that you haven't disclosed to them.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: You wouldn't need to disclose it because they are not equipped to fucking help your ass with that.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so I view it as coaching really helps you address the goals, the objectives, the barriers that have been in the way to you accomplishing something that you want.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: For me, it's business.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: So the mindset, the way people see the world, right?
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: The way people see the world and how their um and how their perception of the world affects their belief and them being able to get and have the business that they want.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Therapy addresses the multifactorial issues that impact your mental health, that impact your psyche.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: So it's looking at the clinical, um, is looking at the clinical indicators, the the um the past events that have happened, the present events that are happening that are affecting you emotionally and affecting your ability to function in the core areas of your life.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: Core areas of your life could be work, your relationship with your partner, your relationship with yourself, your relationship with your health.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so those are the two basic differences.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Coaching is your perspective and your mindset and the way in which you look at the world and how your perspective is affecting your ability to have the whatever it is that you want.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Therapy looks at all of the um all of the factors that exist that's affecting your psyche and affecting your ability to live and have the quality of life that you desire.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: So it's I kind of look at therapy as functioning.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: It, you know, the things that are affecting your basic level of functioning, whether that's your marriage, whether that's your job, whatever, it has to be affecting your functioning and you're and you're um discussing the pathology of it and what led up to that, possibly.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Some therapists don't.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: Some therapists focus on the here and now and they, you know, look towards the future.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: But again, they're looking at the core areas of functioning.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: How is this affecting your ability to have the life that you want?
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: So hopefully that makes sense.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, those are the two um, the two ways that you can differentiate the difference.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_03: Also, ear prick up moment when you connected mindset with coaching, just because on social media I've heard people be like, coaches aren't equipped to handle the mindset.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_03: If you don't have, if you're not a therapist, I don't want you near my mindset.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm just like, that doesn't make any sense.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_03: That's it, it's it's interesting because like there is an overlap, like how your mindset is could be contributed by your childhood or past events and things like that.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_03: For sure.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_03: There could be some overlap with therapy and coaching.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I guess how do you know when if you're a coach, how do you know when your coaching client needs therapy and you're like, I'm not fucking equipped to handle this?
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: If they tell you that the reason why they're not able to accomplish a goal is an issue that you're not equipped to treat.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: So if they say, Oh, I'm not able to, okay, so I'm not able to charge what it is I want to charge because um, you know, my husband has a gambling addiction.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just throwing something out there.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: My partner has a gambling addiction and it's caused him to be, you know, suicidal, et cetera.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I can't afford to not have clients come in.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: So if I increase my prices, I lose my clients.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's not something that a coach could really help with.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: They can't help you, boo-boo, with your gambling addiction, you know, with the gambling addiction your husband has.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's just not something they're equipped to.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really good area, though, to say, hey, we get to have a team effort about this, right?
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: I can only help you with this.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: And then you get to have a therapist that helps address that so that they are getting a full um of the full picture of what their life could really look like when they have these core areas addressed by the people that have the license to be able to treat it, um, or the people that are certified to be able to treat it, or the people that have the capability to treat it.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say looking at if the reason why your client isn't able to make and have the goals and the desires and dreams that they want because of something that affects their core areas of functioning, right?
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: If they're not able to sleep and they're taking and they're in their pill popping all the time, that's a really good place to say, hey, in order for you to get to this place that we want to get to, you need to address your struggle with sleeping.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_00: We need to address perhaps your sleeping pill addiction or whatever it is that the client says that they have.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: So let's recommend you to, I recommend you to follow up with your PCP, with your doctor, recommend you to follow up with your therapist, right?
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then we all get to help you have the life and the dreams and the goals that you want.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, really looking at what is your core area of expertise and anything outside of that, that's why people need destroy the mindset drama, because if you're not quite sure, right?
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not quite sure what exactly those situations could look like, then you need to become educated.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people struggle to admit that they don't fucking know or that they've made a mistake and that maybe they overstepped, right?
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: But I believe, and I'm sure you saw it in my program, um, Mariah, that we are all redeemable and people make mistakes.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: I've had people say inside of that program, destroy the mindset drama, hey, I didn't realize that I really shouldn't have been addressing that with that client.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: I it I thought that I was just being trauma informed.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't realize that what I was um recommending or the coping skills I was recommending was further triggering their trauma.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: I they didn't communicate that to me until X time.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: I've had people express those types of things and I approach it with non-judgment because I understand that you didn't know.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: If you knew better, you would do better.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's the hope.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so now you know here are here are the boundaries.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're unsure, if you're still not clear after this episode, then that's a really good sign that you get to educate yourself more on that.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, that was so good.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: I really love it.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny how it's so easy to fall into black and white thinking.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: But I see a lot, I have seen a coach before say, you don't need a therapist if you hire me.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like, what?
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I loved what you just said.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's a team effort.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, of course, it's a team effort.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: But what uh it's funny how we go, I need this or that, but really but you get to have these.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you need to need it.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: You need everybody.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I actually um so Sophia Amaruso, I am on her email list.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_00: I am manifesting, honey, that we are going to meet.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know how that's gonna happen, but I fuck with her the long way.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_00: Love her stuff.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: So she is the CEO of Nasty Gal, the online fashion retailer, and um, she bootstrapped that motherfucker to millions and millions of dollars.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_00: She sent out an email that was so good, and she talked about how she's always had a she's had a therapist for a long time, but she decided to hire a um leadership coach.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it was her explaining why she felt she needed to, even though she already had a therapist.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: She said, This is a person that specializes in business, business leadership.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I need that support because my therapist is not there to give me business solutions.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: You get what I'm saying?
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so we get to look at it um and put things in the boxes that they need to be in.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's certain things that certain people address really well, and you get to go to a specialist for that.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: Your therapist should not be giving you business advice.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's not the purpose of therapy, boo-boo.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's not.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: Don't come to me expecting mindset coaching inside of therapy.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna get that.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're fucking going there.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: We're going there, whatever there is.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever it is that you want to work on, that's what we're doing, but you're not going to double dip because that's not what I'm equipped.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not equipped in that capacity to do that mindset coaching.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so yeah, I don't, I don't do that.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_03: Even like even you being licensed in therapy, we're not mixing, like, even though you know the difference between bowls, you are an expert or a professional in both arenas, we don't get to play hockey at the football stadium.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: There we go.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: You got to invest in what you need.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not your all-in-one, you know, I'm not your TV dinner boo.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not, you gotta order all five courses because you ain't about to just you ain't about to drain me.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that when you understand what your role is and how all of these specialists get to help you have the life and the business and the career that you want.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, what better thing?
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_00: And here's the thing to the coaches that say, um, whenever it's uh always a big red flag, BRF, when somebody says you don't need X, if you have me, that is scarcity in another dress, run.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: Those are the people that have not healed through their own shit and they're projecting their scarcity onto you.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so, because it's absolutely false.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: It is false that a coach can fulfill what a therapist can, and it is false that a therapist can effectively provide everything that a coach can.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: They serve two different functionalities with the same mission.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: And if you feel the need to project your scarcity and your limiting beliefs onto other people because you have your own shit to deal with, then maybe that's something you need to handle instead of projecting that onto your client because that's not true.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_01: Mic drop.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I want to talk a little bit about, I'm also a projector topsy.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to talk a little bit about your zone of genius, which is emotional intelligence.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that is something that I feel like I've been told my whole life, you have a lot of emotional intelligence, and I've never known what to do with that.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: So emotional intelligence.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody told me.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_01: What's the resume?
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like how do I measure it?
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_01: So tell us about like how did you?
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm assuming you probably had a lot of people the same kind of feedback.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: How did you pull it together into this really cool, unique position?
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: Girl, how did I pull it together?
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: Just bullshitting.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: I figured I was gonna incorporate it somehow.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm not gonna act like I just had this grand plan.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: I really didn't.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: I just knew that I would be a fucking beast at helping business owners develop it.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_00: So emotional intelligence is a set of core skills.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's not this nebulous thing.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people say, and they say it with I understand with good intentions with the information that they have.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: To them, emotional intelligence is that you just understand how to read the room, but it's more than that because it's objective and it's measurable.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: So that means there needs to be a set of core skills that determine what is objective and what is measurable, and um how you're able to show that you're demonstrating it, right?
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's scientific.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: So emotional intelligence is based on a set, it's an evidence-based set of core skills that helps us not only understand and manage our own emotions, but it helps us understand and manage other people's emotions as well.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what they mean when they tell you that, Shay.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: They tell you that because you understand how to shift with the needs of the room or of the people that you're around.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: You understand how to um how to how to read the room.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_00: You get it.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: You get when somebody's agitated or when someone could get offended, you understand what barriers or what things to set up to make sure that that person feels safe, right?
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so I studied the um the genos model.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's who I got my certification through.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I loved the, I loved the emotional intelligence skills that they identified it through years of research that showed, okay, this is what leadership looks like when they are demonstrating emotional intelligence.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so the biggest thing for people to remember is that it is a skill.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's not automatic, you don't just automatically have it.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's a skill that you need to develop because there will be times where you don't demonstrate emotional intelligence.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: There will be, I am very honest when I say I did that with no emotional intelligence at all, or I went off on that bitch with no emotional intelligence at all, right?
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why it's important for us to realize that it is a practice, it is a skill, it is an art.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: And once we know what those skills are, so for instance, in the workplace, it's different from what somebody who's a CEO or in leadership would need to have.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: So in the workplace, it is being able to um manage your own emotions, for instance, self-management.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's hard for people.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: You ever had a boss that brings all of their emotions with them to work?
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: I used to.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: I used to have a boss where they fucked up the whole vibe.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: Soon as they walked in, I'm like, ah shit, they're on some bullshit, they're already mad, they're all it's eight o'clock.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: What are you mad about?
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: Those are people that don't understand how to self-manage, they don't know how to not allow their own personal emotions to affect other people.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's the same thing with um your ability to be authentic.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: Authenticity is a practice.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody you might say, oh, that person's being authentic right now, but that could shift in two days when you see them in another environment.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's a skill.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: To be authentic means that you continuously are um demonstrating that in all of your interactions, which is hard for many people to do, including me.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: Even with my best intentions, there's been times where I've clammed up, right?
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: Where I've been like, I don't think that my perspective is welcome here.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so in that moment, I'm not being authentic.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so emotional intelligence is set is a set of core skills, depending on whatever model you use.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: There's different models of emotional intelligence.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: So there's different um types of research that have discovered um different skills that they have deemed more important.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's fine, that's okay.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: But the point is that it's an art, it's a practice, it's a skill, and you need to work at it on a daily basis in all of your interactions.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_03: I have never heard, hey, well, I've never really looked up the definition of emotional intelligence.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_03: But I mean, why would you?
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody already thinks they have it.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the other thing.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: When you think that you already have it, then you're not going to, it's that bias, right?
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: You're not going to look it up because you're like, oh, I already know what the fuck that is.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's me, bitch.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's me.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, yeah.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_03: The the way that you broke it down is really helpful.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_03: And like, I'm having aha moments with like my family relationships.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_03: And like the first thing that came to mind, I'm just like, so my brother isn't a fucking asshole.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_03: He just has low emotional intelligence.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I love him.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_03: He's never gonna hear this podcast.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_03: But it's like it's it's one of those things where I'm just like, oh, because he just he has a tough time reading the room, he has a tough time being able to express it's it's tough.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, and then I look at my family, and like we did not have good examples of this.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_03: Both of my parents can't handle their own fucking emotions, let alone teaching us to be able to do that.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I guess, yeah, I like the way that we look at it like a skill.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I can give more empathy and compassion to him to be like, you can learn this.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: I gotta stop being an asshole.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_03: I have to stop losing my emotional intelligence in situations with you because you can build on this.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, there we go.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, he's not broken, he is whole, he just hasn't ever developed and flexed that muscle.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: So when you talk to him, for instance, it would be what are those objectives that lead up to him demonstrating better emotional.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: So if it's if it's um learning how to read the room, that's a very broad thing.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: What specifically about that do you want for him to understand?
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_00: Do you want him to understand when someone is mad?
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, what would it look like when someone is mad?
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: They need to have that breakdown of here's what it looks like when a person is agitated and they don't want to be bothered, or here's what it looks like to communicate that in an empathetic way.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: You have to break it down to the minutiae because what comes easily for you is not gonna come easily for him.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: And he's going to have to work on um paying attention to that in all of his interactions, and that's a lot of work.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: That is a lot of work, it is a lot of work.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's why a lot of people don't want to have it.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, fuck the emotional intelligence.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: This is too much.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm thinking too much.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, this is fascinating.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_03: I'm wondering, and I mean, there there might not be evidence or like anything, but like, can trauma increase emotional intelligence?
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_03: Because I I feel like you can go either way, you can either decrease it or increase it.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think trauma, the way trauma impacts it, because it it impacts your perception of um what you believe is the right thing to do in that moment, right?
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so it changes your perception of the world, so it really depends.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: on how that's negatively or positively impacting your relationships with other people and how you handle that.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: Oh when a person's experienced trauma, it does impact it, it can go either way.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: It impacts the way they respond or what they perceive is happening and their yeah and their behaviors.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: It affects like what they verbally respond to, what they feel and their behaviors.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_03: And it also is like not just about the experience but what they make that mean about that yeah absolutely their perception.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: Huh isn't that interesting?
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah this is fascinating.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah trauma like it like I find trauma to be so interesting because I this is why a lot of the blanket statements that a lot of people use in our industry I don't agree with.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like when they say things like um Shay like for instance there's a lot of trauma informed coaches who will say it's because of your trauma why you're not able to do X.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: That is not true in all instances because I have witnessed traumatic events, but it didn't become a trauma for me because of the way that I was able and the the privilege that I had to be able to process it.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_00: And because I'm aware that oh shit me witnessing that car rolling over and all those people dying I'm aware that I need to talk about that.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm aware that I need to and so that it doesn't become a traumatic event that replays in my head over and over and over.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: So a lot of the time it's also our reactions to those events and how we perceive the world after that really causes it to become trauma.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: But not everyone identifies or has trauma.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that we get to not project that onto other people because I if someone were to tell me you've experienced tons of trauma, I've experienced it, but I don't have trauma living in my body I have no PTSD.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing like that because I was able to regarding that instance process it effectively which is why it's important for people to become educated on these topics instead of just spewing what everyone else is saying because you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: Not everyone has or identifies with having trauma.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: They might have experienced it but it doesn't mean that they have it and we cannot we can't do that to people let people come to that conclusion on their own.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: Wow that's really powerful.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know I'm sitting here and I want to ask you this question.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think that being trauma informed is kind of a popular word that I was seeing thrown around which I think is lovely in some ways it is lovely.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: We weren't talking about it at all before there we go.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: But to you how would you define like what does that mean I want to be a trauma informed practitioner.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like what does that mean?
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think you know what this is what I this is what I really fucking think is cool about that.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, it becomes to me it's it's become a way for organizations to make money because it's I mean you make tons of fucking money when people pay to have this trauma informed program.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: So there's capitalism involved it's biased already because they want to make money off of you right the but that's that's neither here nor there.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's just the way the world works.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: But number two, I think what's really cool about being trauma informed is because the idea is that you understand what causes how how some why someone is behaving the way that they're behaving why they are reacting and responding and what tends to happen when that person is um you know experiencing the residual effects of a traumatic event.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so the idea is that you know how to how to best handle it and you don't need the certification in order to know those things.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: Just be I'm just gonna say that there are many therapists that are not trauma informed but that understood they are trauma informed.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: They're not certified but they are right um and so I think it's really about how you know are we educating ourselves on what it looks like on the clients that we work with how does trauma present itself in our sessions with clients so that you know how to best handle it, get them the help that they need you know you know how do we best um support them if they're having a moment how do we best triage them to the support that they need but unfortunately sometimes people are not referring those people to therapists.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_00: They're referring them to other trauma informed coaches because they're like therapists shouldn't have the monopoly on treating this.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very bizarre to me because I'm like this is the this is life or death y'all like we can't fuck around with people's lives.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not licensed to treat don't do it.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah trauma informed I think it's just another really dope way of understanding people and understanding um how they respond to different situations and what what your role is.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that is fucking incredible.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: But unfortunately some people have taken that to mean that they are now the fucking end all be all be all yeah jinx and that that person no longer needs a therapist which is bizarre but it's but that's scarcity in another dress it's just them feeling like what I do is so much more important than this.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is what projections yeah yeah it's so sad.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: It's so sad.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah those are the people that need destroy the mindset drama the most but they won't enroll right because they think they got it all figured out so it's what the fuck do I know?
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah it's it's interesting when you said projecting the fact that we have trauma onto other people and just like in a in a in a nuanced way like my relationship with Andrew literally I'd be like we have so much trauma from your childhood.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_03: He's like I don't know do I like like basically like do I and I'm like oh and then I'm sitting here and I'm like and I'm like oh fuck this is nuanced and I'm like I don't know if he would classify that as what he thinks is that and then who am I to tell him that he has that and then how to also work through it even though I'm like yeah but this is connected to a past situation back then.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_03: So then that must mean that this is trauma.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then he's just like can you fucking let me eat breakfast and look it can very well be a traumatic event but it doesn't mean that he is traumatized.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah that's very it's it doesn't mean that that's affected isn't it is it but these are the topics that people don't want to talk about in the online world because they already know it all you know what I mean so I just stay over there in my lane honey I just stay in my lane but I notice it and I do think it's hard because two people can grow up in the same house and not experien you know what I mean and not be traumatized and not have had that effect negatively impact for some people it positively impacts them and wants them and makes them want to fucking go harder in their career in their lives right and I relate to that one.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah see because you want to completely differentiate and disassociate yourself from that event and what it brings and that's not a bad thing either everyone has a different way of handling a traumatic event but to say that somebody is traumatized that's a whole nother it's a whole nother bag of worms but I love that's why I think the title of this podcast is super smart because you're really curious I love that very much so thinking about it.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like this episode should be on a billboard.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_03: Everybody should listen to it it's just I think that it's so helpful and even like I'll get on a billboard about destroy the mindset drama for a hot second because like the the program itself it was so practical and tool based approach to coaching.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_03: So like I never got a coaching certificate.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah I've heard mixed reviews on them if they're worth it some of people are like they're not fucking worth it.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_03: But what I liked about yours is like you taught us these tools and and you kind of infused like some tools that you learned in therapy and how we can approach it in a different perspective while also teaching us the boundaries of like listen you can approach it through this here's the line in the sand we're not fucking moving it but like how practical and tool based it was and then helping us develop our own framework.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_03: And to be honest that inspired like my level of confidence with my SEO framework I was like oh that's the like I already have a fucking framework.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_03: You like redefine what well also Taylor who we have on the podcast she also both of you like helped us redefine what framework is and like having these tools and I just truly I think that if you're in this coaching space it can be the wild wild west like there you can go and say that you're a coach without really having any idea or just showing up blindly and being like what do you need help with and it's like is that coaching or is that being a friend or a mentor?
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_03: And that's not for me to define the nuances for everybody.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_03: But I think just having these tools in the tool belt, they're just really really important.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_03: But I do have a question about emotional intelligence.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_03: So like do you have any examples or ways that people can maybe start to develop this on their own like anything that works.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah yeah I think um one of those ways is to number one really allow yourself the gift of being a student and that means that you're not always going to get it right.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things that lets me know that somebody hasn't developed it is when they say that they have it.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's not the way people talk you don't just say I have it that's just like saying I'm just being honest.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is just like saying I'm a thought leader.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: You you don't you don't say that let other people tell you that you know what I mean it's like what like how do you know so I think that with emotional intelligence is being willing to get it wrong being willing to admit that you don't always make the best decisions being willing to admit that your emotions do guide a lot of your decisions you can become and start to develop with even without having a framework for it you can start to develop having emotional intelligence by and being willing to admit when you don't be willing to admit I have no fucking idea what that means I know that I try my best to do X and X, but I fall short.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_00: That is how you you start to identify what you need to work on when you're willing to admit the shit that you don't know.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say one of those ways that people can do that is to be um be willing to be wrong um and admit when you've made mistakes I think that I'm gonna talk about it from the perspective of leadership because that's my that's my jam a lot of CEOs struggle to admit that they are they have it wrong or they got it wrong or that they made the wrong call or that they made an investment that didn't have the ROI that they thought that it would.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_00: They're not willing to admit that they um hired too fast, fired too slow.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_00: Those are some of the easier ways to start developing more emotional is being willing to say you know what I started hiring team because I thought that that's the only way that I could scale or I started hiring people to join my team because I thought that that was the natural path that you're supposed to take be willing to admit when you don't have it right because that's how you're able to develop emotional intelligence.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: You can't develop it if you're not open and willing to admit that you may not have it in some areas and that's okay.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay to not know it all and so that is honestly where I would really encourage people to start is what if you don't have all the answers?
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: What if you don't always make the best decisions what if there's always more that you could learn what if you didn't allow that mistake you made to define you know I think that that those are the issues that I see a lot of people have especially in entrepreneurship is being willing to admit I need some help.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_00: I made the wrong call or this affected my company or I made a panic pivot.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_00: I panic pivoted to another niche because I got impatient with the one that I'm in because I wasn't making money fast enough.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_00: I did that before what's up but but we all get but we all get to figure out what that looks like you know we're not always going to get it right the first time but yeah like I think that that's how you start to develop it is being willing to admit hey here's where I here's what I don't know and that's vulnerable for people is very vulnerable for people.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know I'm really drawn to this yeah um I honestly the reason I left the nine to five I've been screamed at by a handful of adult men in a professional environment and at some point I just said I'm not available for this anymore.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_01: This is wild is abuse it's abuse it is I have a friend who got a stapler thrown at her head it's like these they were men who like don't know how to control themselves.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm hearing you say that you're working with leaders on emotional intelligence and I'm like what a need.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_00: So can you talk to us a little bit about how does it develop come into all of well they typically come to me when some shit has hit the fan whether it's with their team high turnover um maybe it's you know they realize that you know what I just can't do this alone.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm feeling all this pressure to perform and I'm making mistakes um I don't trust my decisions um or I'm scared that my team doesn't trust my decisions or that they've lost faith in me as a leader.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's why they typically come there's some shit that's popped off that they're like I don't know if we can come back from this like I don't know what this means about me.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how to process this and I know I need help and I'm just so ashamed.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_00: I hate that they come to me when it's at that point, but I'm happy that they come at all.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's that meme of like is it me?
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_00: Am I the am I the drama?
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_00: So they come to me and so one of the first things we do is we do um an assessment and that's where um their self-assessment that's where I kind of get their own perception engage of how well they not only um know the skills but do they actually demonstrate it because it's one thing to know it's a whole other thing to demonstrate it.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of people struggle to demonstrate it because they're so driven emotionally right you think about it your gut, your intuition all of those things are great and they help us become who we are and they help us make decisions.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_00: But if that's the only thing that's always guiding you, it will lead you astray sometimes our gut is not always correct, right?
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes that's being influenced by our own personal opinions and our lived experience right my gut will tell me not to go to a gas station at night but that's because I've seen somebody get shot at a gas station at night right that doesn't mean that that gas station I'm going to something bad is going to happen.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_00: But yet my gut instinct will tell me not to does that make sense yeah and so we so anyways with leaders we'll do the assessment and I'll get their read on um how important it is to them to demonstrate that skill and how often do they demonstrate that skill.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then we eventually hopefully and then I coach them through um you know making sure that they are living out um demonstrating that skill in their weekly daily lives inside of their businesses and they talk to me about some of the problems that are coming up and we talk about how they can better demonstrate that core skill in that situation.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes I got to coach them through it because it's hard.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then eventually the hope is that we um they're able to get to a point where they feel safe and comfortable enough to have their employees and their team give feedback on how much they demonstrate it.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_00: And that is the scary part for many leaders is their biggest fear is that they're a fuck up, right?
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that they don't know what they're doing and that everyone hates them.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's why I start with the self-assessment because I want for them to feel safe and to look at the look at it as being objective.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a tool to help you develop it's not a tool to could condemn you.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so then we do the one hopefully for their team and we get the feedback from their team members and then we're really able to you know hopefully build out this beautiful you know leadership plan that allows for them to feel in their power but also feel empowered like fuck like I have control over this.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_00: I can change this you know my team can see these behaviors that I'm demonstrating and it shows them that I'm developing it.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's so measurable and objective and it's just a beautiful tool to really help you lead powerfully and that's why I fucking love it.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_00: I love it so much.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_03: And it's also very nuanced of just like there's so many little pieces I mean like nothing in this world is black and white truly but it's like there's so many things that it's it's layered like humans right it's like so many times we go into things and we're like let's say I want to do leadership coaching and it's like because I want to be a a better leader and then some we don't even know what being a fucking leader means.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_03: See yep yep it's nuanced it's like emotionally so we're bringing in emotional intelligence there it's how you're treating people it's how you're showing up it's how you're expressing ideas how you're being creative how you're delegating like there's just so many layers to all of this truly there is there really is that's why I fucking love it but that's also why I have um mindset is the foundation of it because if you don't understand how your perspective and how the way in which you look at the world how it impacts the way in which you demonstrate those skills then what the fuck are we doing here?
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why I love for people to understand how much their mindset affects their everyday behaviors because it matters.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: If you're a person that stuffs your emotions then you're probably going to struggle with demonstrating emotional intelligence because you don't feel that emotions are safe to feel so it's deep.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_00: Your eyeballs are cracking you know asking asking for a friend um if you're one of those people that doesn't feel like emotions are safe to feel where do you start with that what do you do asking for asking for a friend I love that um I I would say if you struggle to I think really number one looking at like why you know what happened to you that caused for you to feel that emotions were wrong or that they weren't safe that's oftentimes where it starts is did it start for you in childhood like really do that self-assessment of did this when did this start?
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_00: When did I start feeling like being able to feel wasn't safe because that came from somewhere what was the negative consequence that you experienced from expressing your emotions were you told to buck up and to fucking just stuff it were you told that you know we don't talk about that shit here were you told that this is crybaby shit right what triggered you to feel that feeling emotions aren't safe are you afraid that if you feel it then it becomes real and you don't want to feel the pain of it not be, you know, of that person or that thing not being there for some people they fear that if they allow themselves to get excited about something that it's going to be snatched away right so I'll say a vulnerable one for me is I told and I'm very blunt about this.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean I don't know how I feel about having kids me and my husband have been together since 2011.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_00: We've been married since 2014 and one of the things I I told him and I will tell anybody I don't know if I want to love anything that much I am very aware that I don't know if I want my heart walking around outside of my body that sounds terrible because I got chills.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if I want that I really don't I don't because I love my life as it is it's enough for me to worry about my husband and my loved ones and myself I don't want to think about a defenseless baby that needs me to be oh fuck no I'm not I can't even go there.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_00: So when I talk when we're talking about a person that is afraid to feel their emotions it's where does that come from you know and once you're able to start there then you can decide okay what do I need to do in order to work on this?
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is it therapy?
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_00: Is it me?
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_00: Is it am I gonna go into self-healing?
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_00: Am I going to you know go and you know start my own journey go to Barnes and Noble and fucking go to town you know start getting all the Brene Brown books like what what are you gonna do in order to start I mean are you going to download workbooks off of Amazon you know what I mean what are you going to do to start allowing yourself to feel safe to feel and then you can kind of move on from there.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_00: But oftentimes it's what happened in your life that caused for you to feel that emotions weren't safe and then I would go from there.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_03: I love that you gave examples that weren't just like go to therapy oh yeah there's so many options there's so many not everyone needs therapy I hate when people that's enough that's one last andrew says that all the time he's like I fucking hate when people say that everybody needs therapy he was like people don't know how I process emotions and he was like I'm very self-reflective and calm myself out on my bullshit and he was like I don't think that anybody could understand these things as much as I can understand he's like I feel like I'm really honest with myself and he's like I just don't think that it would be helpful and I'm like well maybe you should cry sometimes and he's like no I you know jug my shit all over him the reason why I say that too is because um therapy is an added tool um but it it it can't it's not gonna do the work for you so a person can go I've had you know how many people are lifer therapy people um therapy seekers where they go to the same therapist for like 25 years and they don't feel that much better.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of people that don't feel that much better than they did when they first went but it's because that's what they've been told that they need to do and it's like well what are you doing outside of those sessions boo boo because what's obviously what's happening in those sessions just is not enough.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_00: You need to go and implement some shit.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_00: You need to go and do your own self healing journey.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_00: It can't just be the therapist doing it for you because they can't do that.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why I say everyone doesn't need therapy.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_00: We get to determine that for ourselves we get to determine hey do I need that objective person that doesn't know me, that doesn't know my family that can give me an honest perspective and possibly some coping skills To handle this, right?
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what I want?
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what I it's just like saying, I don't believe everyone needs a coach.
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't believe that everyone needs anything.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_00: You just need to figure out what is going to be helpful for you.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_00: I know that we need doctors.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's really the one of my hard we need doctors, right?
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_00: But there's so many things that are just nuanced, and we get to determine what is our problem and how can this help us help me get to where it is that I want to go.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes therapy is the answer, and sometimes it isn't.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes we live in a wonderful world world where, like, maybe it's not talk therapy, but it's something else.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_00: There's all kinds of maybe it's somatic movement, maybe it's breath work, right?
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_00: What is going to help you feel good and help you heal?
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_00: That is all that I fucking care about.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_00: I don't give a fuck what methodology you use.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I would say Kanye needs therapy, right?
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because his actions are impacting the lives of other people, his kids, his ex-wife, right?
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like he's ruining lives, literally, because he refuses to get help, right?
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's a different situation.
• 1:07:04
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're not in that type of situation, if you don't have a severe to persistent mental illness that's causing for you to harm yourself, your family, or your loved ones, then it's your choice, you know, it's your choice.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, there's like a million side streets I want to go down with you, but I know we can the name of the podcast is curiously guided.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll we talk a lot about intuition.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_01: You said something a couple thoughts back that really struck me about differentiating between what is an intuitive nudge versus what is fear or some other thing.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_01: How do you personally?
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_01: That's a question you get a lot.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_01: How do I know if it's intuition or if it's something else?
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_01: How do you kind of cipher through that?
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think for me, I really I really pay attention to what are my fears and is it possible?
• 1:07:56
  SPEAKER_00: I just ask myself questions like, is it possible that my fears are interlapping with the actual objective truth?
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_00: Is that possible?
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_00: Is it possible that I just don't prefer to go to gas stations at night and that's just something that I just won't do and that's okay?
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_00: Do I get to just give myself permission to do that, to just do that for my safety reasons?
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I like to kind of pay attention to do I already have pre-existing fears or biases or opinions about this topic?
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_00: And what is the hard evidence that shows that this is not the best decision for me to make in this moment outside of just myself?
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then you get to just make an executive decision.
• 1:08:40
  SPEAKER_00: And um, depending on the outcome, that really can show you what the issue actually was.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_00: Was it your intuition or was it your fear?
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_00: And we get to learn that through practice and through knowing ourselves.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_00: And we don't, if we aren't doing our own inner work, you'll never know what that difference looks like for you.
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think a good example in just like the online business space and one that I have had experience with is like making investments in a coach and a program and something.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes it's like, oh fuck, is this an intuitive hit?
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like, am I really fucking excited about this?
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_03: I know that this is like what my higher self wants, what I am really craving, what I truly desire, and like a deeper part of myself.
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_03: Or am I getting caught up in marketing?
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_03: Or am I talking myself into it?
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_03: Because I've done that with investment.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_03: I can talk, I'm a genius.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_03: I can talk myself into fucking anything.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, big time.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_00: Big time.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like trying to decipher these things.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_03: It truly comes back to exactly what you said of just like you really have to know yourself.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_03: And me and Shay find pretty helpful is like verbalizing to rationalize, like even noticing like how you're saying it and how you feel when you're verbalizing it to somebody else can make a big difference.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, absolutely.
• 1:09:54
  SPEAKER_00: I definitely agree.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, verbalizing it, talking about it out loud.
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I I love sharing what my gut instinct is telling me to my husband, for instance.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's just helpful.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't share it with the intention that he's going to figure it out for me.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's just, I just want you to hear me out and hear why I'm uncomfortable with this.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just gonna, and if you're able to, just sit with it for a while, right?
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_00: I've done that with investments.
• 1:10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Do I actually need this or is this just really good marketing?
• 1:10:25
  SPEAKER_00: If I can't go to sleep without thinking about it over the next three, four days, then it's something that I want, and I'm going to choose that, you know, and so I think just giving yourself that space to not make quick, rash decisions, even though that's what they want, that's what the sales team wants sometimes.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_01: That was one thing I wanted to bring up.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's important to learn about, you know, we have a lot of people that on this call we care about being trauma informed, but I want everyone to know marketers and salespeople, they are trained in the opposite.
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_01: They don't they are not informed and they're trained to trigger a lot of these fears.
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_01: So by by diving into this work and your self-awareness, I feel like you make yourself a stronger person to get through.
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Is this marketing?
• 1:11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Is this a sales business or is this like me and my voice?
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, and I I have a style, I don't prefer high pressure situations.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so I tend to not do well with that.
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't give a fuck what your sales timeline is.
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_00: I give a fuck about mine, right?
• 1:11:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's in the best interest of me because it's ultimately gonna be me whose bank account has, you know, the$2,000 less or whatever for this program.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not really concerned with your timeline.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'll let you know if I have a decision, I'll let you know by that date.
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_00: And if I enroll before that date, that's incredible.
• 1:11:46
  SPEAKER_00: But if not, that's okay.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like I trust that what's meant for me is not gonna pass me by.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_00: So if I don't get into your program that you only launch once a year, you know, I don't fucking care.
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_00: There's always next year.
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_00: There's always next year.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Delayed gratification.
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's just one of the pillars that I help business owners parse through and move through, is being willing to delay gratification, which is why I think so many people find themselves in investments that they can't afford or investments that no longer feel good, is because they thought this will I'll never have this opportunity again.
• 1:12:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so if I don't take advantage of it, someone else will.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's really have being at peace with yourself and being at peace with your decisions and knowing and having that trust that what you ultimately want wants you.
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that's all there is to it.
• 1:12:33
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like we could have a full conversation about delayed gratification.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_03: And that's something that I know ain't nobody talking about.
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_03: Because to be honest, would probably be fucking around with people's sales numbers if we talked about it.
• 1:12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 1:12:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yesterday was my first time because it's part of my framework that I used to work with CEOs.
• 1:12:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so um yesterday was my first time actually just talking and connecting it to business um because it it is a core emotional skill that leaders need to have is delayed gratification.
• 1:13:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's why so many businesses, I bet, go out of business really fast, is because they did everything so quick because they wanted to have what they wanted right now.
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_00: They did not want to wait till year four to have that, you know, 300K year.
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_00: They wanted the 300K year in year one so that they can recoup their investment.
• 1:13:22
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not how business works.
• 1:13:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, delayed gratification is one of the core emotional skills that I teach in my framework when I work with leaders because it's it is it is going to determine your success, absolutely, your ability to delay gratification, and that looks different depending on the situation.
• 1:13:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, we can maybe do a part two podcast episode because that shit is deep.
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_01: It is, and it's powerful.
• 1:13:46
  SPEAKER_01: Two Martian hours later.
• 1:13:48
  SPEAKER_01: I love that study, right?
• 1:13:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh okay.
• 1:13:52
  SPEAKER_01: I have one more selfish question, Tafi.
• 1:13:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of our listeners are really feely type people.
• 1:13:57
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you said something at the very beginning of the podcast that really struck with me about um you learned a skill of being able to put up your protective wall and not take on everybody's feels.
• 1:14:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I I struggle with that.
• 1:14:10
  SPEAKER_01: It it's it's really hard for me not to take it on.
• 1:14:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so, would you mind sharing us some of your tips of like how do you put your armor up in a healthy way?
• 1:14:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:14:18
  SPEAKER_00: So, one of the things that I so so to be fair, I mean, uh because I'm a psychotherapist, it it just was a skill I had to develop.
• 1:14:26
  SPEAKER_00: It really wasn't a choice because otherwise I wouldn't be able, I wouldn't have been able to do what I do and to have seen the things that I've seen.
• 1:14:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say, number one, really um setting your intention, setting intentions.
• 1:14:38
  SPEAKER_00: I guess I do set my own intentions before my sessions with clients, is I ground into what is it that the client needs.
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I just remember that the session is about the client, it's not about me.
• 1:14:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I know when I am taking on too much of their story or of their struggle is because I am taking their story personal, and that's of a disservice to them.
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_00: When you start to take your client stuff onto you and project that onto yourself, you're actually doing them a disservice because you're not able to really help them objectively because you're way too emotionally wrapped up in it.
• 1:15:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I would say, number one, before the session, being willing to um, I just envision myself like um cutting like a thread.
• 1:15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like I am my own person, they're their own person with their lived experiences.
• 1:15:22
  SPEAKER_00: Their lived experiences are not dictating mine, and vice versa.
• 1:15:27
  SPEAKER_00: And they um they get to have support for what they are experiencing right now in their life.
• 1:15:32
  SPEAKER_00: And it is not a predictor, nor is it related to anything that I'm going to have to do in my own life.
• 1:15:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's oftentimes what happens is that you fear that if I'm helping this client with this, what if this happens to me?
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it can become really easy for them for everything to just get muddled and mashed.
• 1:15:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so one of the first things I like to do is just to like cut that cord.
• 1:15:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm my own professional, I have my own lived experience, I have my own thoughts, feelings, behaviors.
• 1:15:58
  SPEAKER_00: I have my own destiny.
• 1:15:59
  SPEAKER_00: My destiny is not theirs.
• 1:16:01
  SPEAKER_00: This is a part of their story, and I have mine.
• 1:16:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's something that I have found really helpful.
• 1:16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Another thing I have found really helpful is after the session to have some decompression time where I am able to um associate again back into my own body.
• 1:16:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, like that was a really tough session.
• 1:16:18
  SPEAKER_00: I get to take care of myself, but I also get to know that that session, that's a part of their journey and their path, and it's not mine.
• 1:16:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so when you're able to honestly verbally, I found that so helpful, say it out loud.
• 1:16:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's their that's their journey, it's not mine.
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_00: And when you're able to recognize that that is their path and it has nothing to do with yours, there could be similarities, but they don't have your life.
• 1:16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it can be really helpful.
• 1:16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I like to do some type of activity that helps me get ground back into the present.
• 1:16:52
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe that's listening to like a favor my favorite song.
• 1:16:55
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe that's going outside and putting my feet in the grass and listening to my favorite podcast or watching like a quick um Bill Burr stand up on Netflix so I can laugh my fucking ass off because he's ridiculous.
• 1:17:07
  SPEAKER_00: I fucking love that white man.
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_00: He's amazing.
• 1:17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but whatever helps you feel back inside of your body, um, I would do that.
• 1:17:15
  SPEAKER_00: And the more you do that and build in that buffer time in between your sessions of the day, be intentional about that, the less you're going to feel that other people's stuff is just holding on to you, you know.
• 1:17:28
  SPEAKER_01: Gold.
• 1:17:29
  SPEAKER_01: Gold.
• 1:17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for sharing that.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course.
• 1:17:33
  SPEAKER_03: This was amazing, y'all.
• 1:17:35
  SPEAKER_03: Well, our listeners, if you want more than just a taste of Topsy, she does have a free guide and training how to escape the thought spiral in entrepreneurship.
• 1:17:47
  SPEAKER_03: Which I mean, I don't think there's any entrepreneur out there that hasn't gone through a thought spiral.
• 1:17:51
  SPEAKER_03: So I think anything that Topsy has to say, we should all maybe read it and uh a little bit.
• 1:17:59
  SPEAKER_03: Also, I will like I'm biased, I'm biased, guys.
• 1:18:02
  SPEAKER_03: So that's fair.
• 1:18:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but before we wrap it up, we do have a question that we ask every human on the podcast.
• 1:18:10
  SPEAKER_03: So, what has been sparking your curiosity lately?
• 1:18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, what has been sparking my curiosity?
• 1:18:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, this is good.
• 1:18:20
  SPEAKER_00: What a deep question.
• 1:18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um I would say what so something that I've been um thinking about is how would I how would I what kind of success would I experience if I truly thought that the sky was the limit?
• 1:18:45
  SPEAKER_00: So if I acted and behaved as if anything is possible for me and the sky is the limit, what would I do differently?
• 1:18:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I realized, oh, I would go balls to the wall and I would I would pitch, you know, um corporate companies, I would pitch um more um business owners to be on their podcast, business owners who, because I haven't done that in a long time.
• 1:19:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's because there's been this subconscious, you know, fear that what if who I am is too much for their audience.
• 1:19:18
  SPEAKER_00: So something that I've been thinking about is how would I behave if I'm if there was truly no limit to what I was able to do?
• 1:19:25
  SPEAKER_00: So that's something that I've been um getting curious about.
• 1:19:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's interesting.
• 1:19:29
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't think that I had a problem with that until I would say a month ago when I said it out loud to somebody and they were like, what?
• 1:19:35
  SPEAKER_00: Their audience would fucking love you.
• 1:19:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, would they?
• 1:19:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know?
• 1:19:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's one is you know, how do I behave and what would change if I truly owned the fact that anything is possible for me?
• 1:19:48
  SPEAKER_00: What would I do?
• 1:19:49
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:19:49
  SPEAKER_00: So that's been that's been fun.
• 1:19:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's been fun to play around with.
• 1:19:52
  SPEAKER_03: That's good, that's good.
• 1:19:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I will say, I'm sure that our audience is very grateful to have you on here.
• 1:19:58
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like you uh you educated us, you coached us, you loved us, you told us what was right, what was wrong.
• 1:20:04
  SPEAKER_03: Like you guided, not right and wrong, but like you guided us through different perspectives and different ways to think about it.
• 1:20:11
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that the world truly does need your message.
• 1:20:14
  SPEAKER_03: I think other podcast people would love to have you on.
• 1:20:16
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm excited to hear about your pitching success when you follow up with me in 30 minutes and tell me how many people you pitched.
• 1:20:23
  SPEAKER_00: I will, I will.
• 1:20:24
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for that.
• 1:20:24
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me, Shay and Ryan.
• 1:20:27
  SPEAKER_00: You guys are amazing.
• 1:20:29
  SPEAKER_03: So let our listeners know where they can find and connect with you.
• 1:20:32
  SPEAKER_00: So you can find me on Instagram.
• 1:20:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm at Topsyvan and Bosch.
• 1:20:37
  SPEAKER_00: It'll be in the show notes.
• 1:20:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm active on Facebook.
• 1:20:40
  SPEAKER_00: I am acting a fool on Facebook.
• 1:20:43
  SPEAKER_00: So God help us all.
• 1:20:45
  SPEAKER_00: I am on Facebook at Topsy Van and Bosch.
• 1:20:47
  SPEAKER_00: So go and follow me there and then my website, Topsyvandenbosch.com.
• 1:20:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you can go to Topsyvandenbosch.com slash freebie.
• 1:20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, amazing title, and you can hop on my email list there.
• 1:20:58
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I can't wait for you to join the email family because I promise I will make you laugh and you'll learn a lot in my emails.
• 1:21:04
  SPEAKER_03: So you will probably laugh out loud more times than anybody would like to admit.
• 1:21:09
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so I think we're gonna close this episode down.
• 1:21:12
  SPEAKER_03: If you guys enjoyed this episode, feel free to share it with somebody that you think would love it.
• 1:21:16
  SPEAKER_03: Screenshot it, share it on social media, tag us, let us know your favorite part of it, what you loved.
• 1:21:22
  SPEAKER_03: We seriously love connecting with you guys.
• 1:21:24
  SPEAKER_01: And as always, thank you so much for listening and for your continued support.
• 1:21:28
  SPEAKER_01: If you haven't yet, subscribe to the podcast and leave us a review so we can all continue to grow together.
• 1:21:33
  SPEAKER_01: And until next time, remember that you have the power to create whatever the fuck you want.
• 1:21:38
  SPEAKER_01: Follow the nudge, ask questions, and let curiosity guide the way.
• 1:21:42
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see you in the next episode.