Latest / Breaking Down Addiction / #18 Logan Terry — Heroin, Grief, & Finding Hope In Recovery

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#18 Logan Terry — Heroin, Grief, & Finding Hope In Recovery · Breaking Down Addiction

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: And like I had gone to like a completely new low.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: I had warrants uh uh warrants out for my arrest.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: I was our already on probation and could not pass a drug test to save my life for that probation.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, welcome to a new episode of Breaking Down Addiction, podcast brought to you by National Addiction Specialists.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Johnny Phillip.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be your host today, and I'm joined with Logan Terry.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for joining us.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you and I, we haven't really gotten a chance to like really, really, really talk about life and your story and my story and all that.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm super excited to get to know that part of you that I don't know.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I like to start all of these off with the same question.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that is if you were sitting across yourself in active addiction, let's let's call it like in your deepest, darkest rock bottom, you're sitting across from yourself, what would you say to yourself in that situation?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, because I've watched uh some of your your podcasts, I I was anticipating that question and have overthought that question.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: But so if I'm thinking about like the the deepest and darkest portions of uh my addiction and where I was at, and like if like Logan was sitting across from Logan, I think my first initial thought on how to answer that was like I don't think I would tell him anything, not a singular thing, because and that's if like Logan knew that he was sitting across from Logan, you know, it's because I wouldn't want to ruin anything for myself.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Is it maybe too you wouldn't be able to get through to him anyways?
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think I think I could probably if Logan knew that he was sitting in front of Logan in the future, I mean, definitely I would have listened, you know, um, or thought I was tripping.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: But like I think I wouldn't want to like tell myself anything or give myself a heads up or like, hey, you know, um, just know that love is possible, right?
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that was that's one thing I thought about maybe I'd tell myself, but like I think the journey of finding out that love is possible and like what it took to get there, like I wouldn't want to ruin that.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't think I would I don't even think I would take the opportunity to sit in front of myself, you know, because I wouldn't want to ruin the journey, if that makes sense.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's an interesting answer.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: And somebody, you know, we've had you're our 18th guest, and uh nobody's answered it like that.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: So that's very interesting.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I know exactly what you're feeling because when I was an active addiction, I didn't feel as if I was worthy of love.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't actually I didn't see a long life for myself either.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Same.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, same.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, I think um, yeah, it's like if I had to like talk to myself, um, you know, it would it would be that is like I would like I would want to shake the guy and be like, hey man, like not only like yes, you're worthy of love, but like it's real, and like that the word hope isn't just like a word, like it's a feeling, and like, dude, you you you can have that, you know.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a big big thing for it was for me, and I'm sure for other people that are like in the throes of it.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: So well, you were you were born and raised in Tennessee.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Where were you born?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: I was born in Nashville.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um a rarity.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, it was.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um I am uh a true Nashville native, although because I got sober in California, uh people think that I'm from California, but I'm not Jay uh Booker.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm actually from Tennessee.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: I grew up in White House, Tennessee, which is like 20, 30 minutes north of Nashville.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where I grew up.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: Where did your active addiction start there?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: It did what what did that look like?
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: What what did you start using?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: What did it turn into kind of like run me through that a little bit?
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean, so yeah, it's definitely my my addiction started uh where I grew up.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, my addiction um in alcoholism started when I was like probably 12 or 13.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously, I didn't start um off as like a full-blown uh drug addict.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: I started, you know, as as most things do with But that's early.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was early.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: It was definitely early.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, as it started with with me taking my first drink, you know, after going to like a Renaissance festival as a kid, you know, we came back from the Renaissance festival and we'd brought these uh back some yard glasses, which is just these tall, goofy looking glasses that are as tall as a yardstick.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: And uh we filled up half of it up with uh pinnacle vodka that we stole from my friend's mom's liquor cabinet, and then the other half was Diet Coke and um vodka vodka and Diet Coke.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: And and uh and so like you know, I started chugging it and I remember thinking this is gross, but I can chug this.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember, I remember the realization, like as I'm chugging it, um, that oh my god, like I can chug this, you know, and I thought I was cool because I could chug it.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: But then like whenever that sense of like warmth and comfort hit me as I'm like drinking this drink, you know, I I like it was euphoric.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, and I remember immediately thinking, like, I want more of this.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: And my friend had also set himself up with a drink, and I remember I I stole his glass and I ran to the bathroom and like drank his and like immediately blacked out.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: And um that's a hell of a way to start it at that age.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: It was, it was, and so I feel like found a new friend.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I found yeah, I did, I did.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was it was like I'd finally found this sense of like ease and comfort that like I had always wanted.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so yeah, I got that and um, you know, blacked out that night, woke up and um wanted to kind of chase that feeling as much as I possibly could.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was lucky or unlucky, depending upon like who you asked, because in my friend group we had a lot of friends with older brothers who were partying, and so we were able to like tag along um and you know and get alcohol.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: I also have had this beard, like I've looked this old since I was like 16, you know.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um my nickname in high school was Pappy, you know.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, for probably a multitude of reasons.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I also think it was because I was like a grumpy old man, you know, and I had this beard and back hair, you know.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, um, so yeah, I mean, we were able to buy buy beer and and liquor pretty early on.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: And and yeah, I mean, so like the main thing that was happening around that time, um, not just in White House, but like across uh the South and the United States in general was like the pain pill epidemic had really like taken hold.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: So this is like 2007, 2008.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um and the pain pills were like all over the place.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so I remember, you know, I was I was 16 and um I was introduced to Oxycontin for the first time um by you know a good friend of mine and and we had tried it and like that was that was it.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I I thought that I loved alcohol, you know, I thought that I loved drinking and and partying, but like as soon as I did that pill, you know, I immediately was hooked to that.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, back in the back then a lot of people didn't know the signs and symptoms of people on, you know, that were um intoxicated through pain pills.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so like, you know, if you were nodding off, you could kind of get away with telling people that you were a little tired, but um, but yeah, no, so like I fell in love with that.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um were you mixing with alcohol then?
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: I was mixing with everything, yeah.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah, of course, definitely.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, my my my big things back in the earlier years was um, you know, oxycontin or any and all pain pills um and Jack Daniels, you know.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: I've got a tattoo, a Jack Daniels tattoo that I thought was cool that I got when I when I was 18 years old.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I have a whiskey tattoo.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: There it is, dude.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: There it is.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so um, yeah, I mean it became kind of like partying in general, kind of became my identity in some ways, you know.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um dude, I feel that to my core.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like um when I first started drinking, it morphed into me drinking more and more on the weekends, and then it would kind of bleed into the weekdays.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then when I got a fake ID and started going to the bars, I had a nickname uh where these girls would call me drunk John.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought it was cool and funny.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um which I also think it's kind of embarrassing to now.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: There are worse nicknames though.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: There are there are worse.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like Pappy.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you got like Pappy, yeah, exactly, exactly.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing too like sexy about the nickname Pappy, you know.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: So you you start drinking, you're like on pain pills, oxycodone.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: When does it start getting out of control?
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like at what age and are you starting to experience withdrawal symptoms?
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, I think for me, it started to get out of control.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, like I like, you know, right at like around graduation.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, depending on who you ask, I think like my family would say that it was out of control very early on.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like at, you know, at 16, my mom uh found my cell phone and found where I was uh using and selling ecstasy um and um selling you know weed, uh terrible weed, bad weed, you know.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um and she uh she took, she had my uncle come over and take the doors, uh, you know, the door off my room and um yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: So some would say that like it was off the rails really early, which I believe it was, but like where things started to like get dark, I would say, is is probably around 21.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um after high school graduation, I um got a job working and installing conveyor systems where I would where I got to like move to Savannah, Georgia for a little bit of time and work there.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: I was maybe at that job for maybe a week or two whenever like one of the the people on that job came up to me and asked if I liked Jack Jack Daniels Honey and Laura Tabs.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, yes, I definitely do.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and so like I was drinking and using while I moved away, uh realized that White House wasn't the problem, like Logan was the problem, you know.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and also learned that like drugs and alcohol is are everywhere, you know, and I'll be able to find them everywhere.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Were you drinking while working too?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: No, I was not at that time.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: I was not I was not drinking while working um while I was like at that job.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: I was just partying hard um when the job was over.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: But where things really started to escalate is whenever I moved back and you know, I had a little bit of money and um, you know, I started working as like a a residential electrician helper and was making good money for a kid, um, you know, from you know, White House at the time.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: And um, that's whenever like it started to become a daily thing, you know.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um I had started, um, I had I this was like right on the cusp of whenever pharmacies had the the internal system to like that talked with each other, that like, you know, a person was getting double prescribed.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so like I had convinced doctors that I I needed uh that I had anxiety and really bad ADD.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: And so I had a prescription of Xanax, had a prescription of Adderall, and then I was buying pain pills uh and alcohol every day.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so, you know, that's whenever things started to like really escalate.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when I was about 20, 21.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then in March of 2014, uh I get a phone call that my best friend growing up, uh, one of my best friends, growing up Keith, had passed away from a drug overdose.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and and for me, that's whenever things started to go and get dark, you know.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um I like, you know, his death, it it it it destroyed me, you know.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: I was um already like really heading to like a bad place mentally um and physically.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: So this scared you that you could be next.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I wish I could say that it scared me.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um to be honest, I think like, you know, growing up, I I was I was always a pessimist, you know.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like as a kid, like like I said, my nickname was Pappy because like I was like a grumpy old man, but like, you know, I've I've I've never never been quite the optimist, but like, you know, as my addiction and using increased, like things definitely got started to get darker.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: And um, even before his death, like right, like my outlook on life was starting to get really dark.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I wasn't happy with who Logan was.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I knew that it had that I had had a problem.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: I knew that I had a problem when I was 16.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, now I'm you know 21 years old and I have friends going to college and uh starting to graduate college and build lives and and I'm still, you know, um using and drinking like I like I always had.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you're not in school at that point, you're just working the job.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Not in school.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was yeah, 21.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'd went to like a technical school to learn how to become an electrical lineman.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, learned that I was afraid of heights.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: So that was another fail in my life, you know.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um we also have that in common.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, so yeah, so then I get the phone call that he'd passed away, and like um, I was floored with grief.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I remember slamming my fist on the ground, crying and screaming at uh God.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was I was pissed that he was the one that left the world and it wasn't me, you know.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: He was uh he was a person that was like full of passion and personality and loved people and things, and um, you know, and I I I felt like I was just the the guy that was existing to to get loaded.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I was a hell of a feeling for you to have the wrong person die.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah to to live with that.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a hundred percent.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Did it make you use more at that point?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so like that's that that's whenever like I feel like I internally was like I was like, okay, well I'm I'm good with being the one that goes next, you know.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then I I used his death and as a as an excuse to like just start drinking and using to oblivion.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and that uh oblivion maybe lasted like six months before a friend of mine um who had gone to treatment, he was the first one that like I knew personally, a new first person I knew that like went to treatment.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um and he went to to Cumberland Heights and he got out of that treatment center, and like one of the first things he did was come to visit me to to convince me and my family that I should go to treatment.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: Before we get to that point, I do want to rewind a little bit.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: Walk me through what your your daily usage looked like, you know, when it that last six months when it got really bad.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so so I would wake up and um I would either take the Adderall, um, kind of depending.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: So um, sorry, Mom, but I did still my little brother's prescription of Adderall too.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: He never took it, but it was always available.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I would either take the Adderall in the morning, um, and then I would do a little bit of a pain pill while at work.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I was working in residential as a residential electrician.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I'd get to the job site and I would do half of a pill right there, like whenever I got to work.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then right around 3 or 4 p.m., I would take one of my um Xenax pills, and then when I would get home, I would do either a full pill or a half a pill, depending upon what my finances allowed.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it was that routine every day, and then another Xanax at night.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it was that exact routine every single day.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I started getting into the point where like in the morning I would I would wake up on my way to work um onto the job site, and like I would throw up while driving almost every morning.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't really, I was like, this is a weird, I don't know why my body's, you know, why I'm doing this every morning.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: But as soon as I threw up, I felt okay, you know.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I thought it was just because you're supposed to take some medicine with food, and because I wasn't taking it with food, that's why I was throwing up.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and maybe it was, but it's so it's so weird how we convince ourselves, like our our new normal just becomes that becomes really fucked up is that's just where I'm at right now, and I'm okay with it.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think like the one of the craziest things I think about being in the throes of addiction, you know, from looking at like where I was at and then now being on the other side and watching others walk through that is you know there's a lot of things that uh being in the throes does to like a person, you know,'s personality and their body, but like the the delusion, right?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Is like one of the craziest things that like you do you see and experience, you know.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: And are you drinking too when you're doing these stages to keep numb all day and get through work?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I would I wouldn't drink like during the day.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: I would um I would my drinking was pretty limited to like the weekends, especially as like when the pain pill stuff really kind of started escalating.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: The to me, the alcohol kind of like it would drown out the feelings produced from the pain pills.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then like at parties, 100% I would drink, and um, and I was always taking the benzos too, which is like not a good combination.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, I mean, I would get pretty wild um on the nights that like I would be mixing those at parties, you know.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: I've got I think I've super dangerous, super dangerous.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would like this violent portion would come out of me.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think I've been um kicked out of the Waffle House in White House, Tennessee.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't I'm I'm sure I could go there now, you know, but like I had been banned from the Waffle House uh for being violent um due to alcohol and benzomixes, but but yeah.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then um, I mean, after I went to treatment for the first time, like I would say that's whenever I pretty much stopped drinking because everything shifted to just opiates.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_01: So um what was so your your friend that attended Cumberland Heights had this conversation with you.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Was there another series of events that happened that made you go to treatment that first time?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean, so like there was the show back in the day.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's still on, right?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it's called Intervention.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Intervention.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: So like growing up, like my little brother would, you know, he would he you could DVR or TiVo things, and like my my little brother would uh would like record cartoons.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: My mom recorded Law and Order, like I recorded the show intervention, you know.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: So like I had known about treatment and that people could like, you know, find a life of recovery to some extent, but I didn't really know what that would look like for me or how I could access that.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and so um, but I would say like, you know, Keith passing and like me starting to like use and and and my using escalating to like where it did and my mentality around life in general deteriorating, like whenever he came to convince me to go, it was a pretty easy sell.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I don't know about you, but I watched intervention not obsessively or anything, but uh a decent amount back then when I was really on a bad path because I could relate to those people.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, fast forward later on in life when I started working in treatment, I felt as if I could only relate to drug addicts and alcoholics at a certain time period in my life.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's like normies I could talk to, but it wasn't as exciting or fulfilling.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um agreed.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I I totally get you watching intervention and and getting curious.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so you you said you went to treatment the first time.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: How many times did you go to treatment and what what did all that look like?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I believe it was a total of four times.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so I went to so I went to treatment for for the first time.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um that was 2014.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: And um I loved my experience there, you know.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, a couple people came in um and spoke on a on a HI panel from Alcoholics Anonymous.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then for the listeners out there, HI means hospitals and institutions.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Hospitals and institutions.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: To me, like HI and hospitals, it's like that is the most core AA thing ever, you know.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, like that's like going back to the basics of like what the principals were like are for, you know.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: But um, but yeah, I mean, these guys came in and uh and then there were some staff that also like shared their experience and talked about um and shared and read words out of this book, you know, that I thought was kind of weird.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: Cause I'm like, this is really kind of like preachy, which I was like not stoked for, but like the the way that they talked with like passion and conviction about like their story, like I believed them.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like I knew they weren't trying to sell me on anything, and I and I and I knew for a fact that these guys were telling the truth about them having an experience and that their life changing in a like a revolutionary way.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um they saw the light.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_00: They s yeah, yeah.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so like I walked out of that treatment center knowing and believing that there was a solution, but I wasn't willing to do all the things that were suggested.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, did you also feel uh I I totally understand that.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: Did you also feel that you were maybe not able to get the solution?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was unattainable for you?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: No, I don't I don't I don't think I felt that way.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I like I think like I I fell in love with recovery there the first time I did treatment.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I went they they let us go to outside meetings and there were good meetings.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like I could tell that there was like there was other young people getting sober.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I also wanted the comeback story, you know.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so like like no, I think I think I believed that it was attainable at that point.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: I thought that I could attain it.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think I thought I could attain it doing it the way that Logan wanted to do it, and I didn't have to take all the suggestions that were.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: Do it on your terms and not on life's terms.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: So Cumberland Heights, and then you did more further experimentation.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like what happened there?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because you were understanding and grasping recovery and you wanted it.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: You wanted that comeback story.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like what happened there?
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so so basically I started this cycle of going in and out of treatment.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: So like I would get out of treatment, I would start doing the things that were suggested, and then um a girl would move back to Tennessee.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: Then recovery became my second priority, not my top priority.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um if I was the girl, whoever she was at the time.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then uh I would I would kind of slow down on going to my meetings.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would stop doing my recovery disciplines that got me to where I was, which was, you know, prayer, step work, and meditation.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then pretty soon I would be at a, you know, out and about, and I would find myself looking at a margarita at a Mexican restaurant um or some other alcoholic beverage.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I'd be off to the races again.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: How were you spiritually at that point?
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: Spiritually, I was indifferent.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: I would say like up until this recovery, I would fit in like the agnostic category.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I just kind of remained there, you know.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I believed that other people were having an experience and like then that their lives were changing.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I couldn't put my finger on what that thing was, you know.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um neither could I.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: The the first time I went to treatment, I actually asked the group of guys that I was in.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: I went to Hazelden in Center City, Minnesota.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, which for the listeners out there, Hazelden, um Cumberland Heights in Tennessee was started from somebody in the family going there and thinking that uh Cumberland Heights needed to be started in Tennessee as a model of Hazelden for Tennessee.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I thought I don't believe in God.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm spiritually void at this point, agnostic.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um I asked the group of guys I was with, I was like, uh if I don't believe in a higher power, like am I gonna be okay?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um because it was an honest question, and they all said, Yes, you will be okay.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: You just it'll it'll come to you.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Just be patient.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I was not patient at that point.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um so you what's the what's the second, third, and fourth time here?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: So so so yeah, the first time I stayed sober like four months, and then um after the first time, um you know, I did some damage, you know, it's like that, that I had gotten sober.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I was I was uh dating somebody, I had won the hope back from like my my mom and and my dad and um and my friends, and um, and then like I, you know, relapsed pretty, pretty hard, you know, um, and was hiding it and lying, of course, go back to the old thing.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so then second sobriety attempt uh attempt is that um I was caught uh and I was not a it wasn't a choice.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: So my my mom was like, I just spent so much money getting you into a nice treatment center.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Now you're gonna go to a state funded place.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I talked to my friends, and they were like, Oh, that's you're not gonna be able to wear shoelaces, it's gonna be awful.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: And so I started making phone calls, and um I was extremely fortunate in that I was covered under my parents' insurance, and so I had options um and made a phone call to um another program, and I was on an airplane the next day to um Desert Hope in Las Vegas.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and went to treatment there.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, when I got there, like I wanted to be sober.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I got caught, I didn't make the choice to go to treatment, like I had to go, but like I still wanted to be that guy, you know, and and in the first attempt, like I had gotten glimpses of what that life could look like.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was introduced to some wonderful people that uh were living a life of recovery.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so like I wanted that.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: And so like I go to this treatment center.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I had to, you know, I was starting to have some consequences, right?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: For my drinking and using, some real, you know, I was now I was losing relationships, I was losing opportunities, and I could really see the deep pain that I was causing like all the people around me.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: Your family was fed up.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they were they were hurt.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: They're yeah, and they were scared, you know, they were scared um and didn't know what to do, you know.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, and so like that time I'm like, you know what?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna now I think I'm gonna start doing some of the other things that were suggested.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I went to a um a sober living out um out in Las Vegas for a little bit.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_00: I did outpatient.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I moved back when you know, after I got completed treatment, I went back and I think I even did more outpatient after that back in in Nashville.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: But um, I but I I moved back um home.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was like with my with I think I moved in with my with my my either my mom or my dad, I can't remember, but like I remember making the conscious choice to like not go to sober living.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm too good for that, I'm not gonna do that.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I'm gonna I'm gonna start doing the step work.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: And this time, like I I started doing the step work, but I was doing it real academically, you know, like I wasn't like applying the things that I was learning.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: It was like I'm gonna do step one on paper to just say I, you know, do step one on paper.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_01: Going through the motions.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, going through the motions.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to say I was a sponsor, I didn't necessarily want to help other alcoholics, right?
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and so um, while I was my motives were partially good in that like sobriety attempt, like I wasn't, I still wasn't making the connection all the way, you know.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so then another girl moved back to Tennessee, and you know, this girl was the girl that like I wanted to date in high school, and um, you know, she was uh we were really, really close back in high school.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and so when this girl moved moved back, like I was like, okay, this is this is it, you know.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I had about nine months of sobriety, you know, so it was it was yeah, it was more than I'd ever had.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like I had a decent job.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I'd bought a a new truck, like my life was heading in a pretty good trajectory.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and you know, that that girl, she was also wanting, you know, to kind of start her life over.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: And um, but uh, you know, very quickly, like my codependency back then, like started taking control, you know, and um and it wasn't long before she was my number one priority and I and I stopped going to meetings as much.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: Stopped.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, I stopped my recovery disciplines, and then uh we're we're sitting in front of uh uh a BB Kings because my little brother was playing a show and uh no in Nashville before the before the bomb, you know, so it was still there.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so we're sitting there watching uh my little brother play, and then before I know it, I'm looking at a double tall Jack and Coke and knew exactly what was gonna happen if I took that drink.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: And um, but you know, as kind of like the big book says, is that like I would I'd become restless, irritable, and discontent.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I took that drink.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: And uh fast forward two years later, uh her and I are homeless living out of the back of a Mitsubishi Endeavor.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's 19 degrees.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_00: We're living in uh the parking lot of Demas's uh in Hendersonville.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, I had introduced her to Ivy heroin use um and like I had gone to like a completely new low.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: I had warrants uh warrants out for my arrest.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: I was already on probation and could not pass a drug test to save my life for that probation.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you know things got things were things were bad, you know.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: The cards were stacked against you tenfold.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so is heroin entering the picture here then for you as well?
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I had like I had um I had experimented with heroin, you know, um before that, but like I really loved the effects produced by pain pills.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like that was like my favorite thing.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: But in the course of those two years, it had like kind of switched over from, you know, I couldn't afford, I was doing so many pain pills that I couldn't afford it.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: So like I made the next progression to to heroin.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then right around that time, and this is 2017 at the end, and that's whenever fentanyl was really starting to come into like Nashville area really strongly.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: And like the last two months of my using, it was it had switched from heroin to fentanyl, um, to where heroin wouldn't even like make it to where we wouldn't get sick, you know.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: We had to use fentanyl.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so that's where it kind of landed me.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um and this is daily use at this school.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's daily use.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: And you're homeless too.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we had been evicted.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we had some government, we were living in government assistant uh apartments in East Nashville, and we had gotten evicted from that because and we sold everything that wasn't bolted down out of that apartment on Facebook Marketplace to pay for drugs and um I mean things got really, really bad and dark.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and so yeah, it led me to um led us to to living out of the back of of her car.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, I at that point I had kind of given up.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I had tried AA and um I thought that I was too undisciplined, you know.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: It was like it's kind of like uh like an instrument, you know.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just not it's just not in the cards for me to be able to play because I don't have the discipline to practice.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's how I viewed AA and um and um treatment, like you know, I'd done treatment a million times, like what I'm not gonna, I could teach relapse prevention.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: You knew that big book front and back.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what's what's what's that what's that gonna do?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was like, well, I guess this is it, you know.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um but then um the girl, she she didn't uh she really didn't want to, she's like, I can't live like this anymore.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: I want help.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so we started trying to find her treatment, um, but she didn't have insurance.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, you know, we were running into roadblock after roadblock, and um I was reaching out to every connection that I'd worked in treatment that I knew.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we were we we were having no luck, you know.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um not even a state grand place with grants.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_00: There wasn't as many available back then, and they were all full because I mean it was cold, right?
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, like when it starts getting cold, your options become limited.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a huge line.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, that there's a waiting list essentially, yeah.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so someone had made the suggestion, they're like, well, if you go to an emergency room and the emergency room refers you, then you could get a bed.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what she did.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um is she still alive?
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: She is, yeah, she is, and I believe she's doing she's doing well now.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: She's had uh, you know, her her journey, and um, yeah, I'll I'll I'll say that like because I was fortunate and had insurance, I've had, you know, I've had a better journey, you know, a lot easier in accessing uh, you know, help.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, so like so she goes to the hospital and checks herself in to get a bed, and uh, and then I'm alone sitting there and I'm like, well, I guess I don't have to share my dope tonight.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, dope's all mine.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, dope's all mine, and um I guess this is this is the end, you know.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I was like, well, I guess I'm going to use up all of the dope that her and I would normally use over a period of two days.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna use it all at once because I want to feel something.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and if I don't die, then I will call the number on the back of my insurance card and see if I can get help and maybe try this again.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, so I did all of those drugs and like literally it was like a movie.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: As soon as I injected all of those drugs, there was explosions all around.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know what was going on.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: It woke me up, you know, and uh I didn't realize that it was uh New Year's Eve, you know, and so literally it was like at midnight.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, all of the, you know, but the explosions literally like I don't, you know, I don't know if I would have like faded out all the way if it wasn't for that, but like I mean it woke me up, you know.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: Apparently I was parked.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_00: There's this gas station in Millersville that is uh a gas station and fireworks store year-round.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so like I didn't really realize that it was New Year's Eve.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: And and so you were that deep in.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, I was I was all the way in, you know.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: There could be something divine there with these hundred percent, not having you go all the way out.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: 100% yeah, yeah.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: So did you keep to your promise though?
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: I did.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's and that's what still baffles me like now, because like I know the headspace that I was in for like the months leading up to that.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so like I don't know why.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I think maybe it was partially because of fear, because I knew I'd used up all the dope and had no money.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: So like I was if I didn't go get help, I was heading for a really bad couple days uh at minimum.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I made made that phone call, and um, you know, I I got scheduled to go to treatment in uh in three days, and so I uh my mom let me crash on her couch because she knew I was going to treatment, and three days later I went an airplane to California to for treatment.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: And that was that was your last treatment day.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_01: What was different that time, do you think?
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: Man, I I think there were there was a lot.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think one big thing is that um I think my level of like desperation um was was way higher.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, I had I had really surrendered, I think, like at that point.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like I knew that um, you know, any idea that I had about like what I should do, I shouldn't listen to at that point, you know, and that um I I I probably needed to like change my environment for a while.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like I knew being back um in Nashville um wasn't gonna be good for me.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so and in this time, like I really needed to kind of take all of the suggestions that were given.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so for me that was that was that was really kind of the the big change mentally that I had going into it this time.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: Desperation can definitely be a gift.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: It can.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: And what did is there something that you experienced in me that first 90 days that was different than the the previous three times?
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um was there something that you did differently too?
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: Or spiritual awakening there was so that that finally happened?
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: There were so many things that were different.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think like the big thing that was different, I think overall, was that you know, out there in the area where I got sober, so I originally went to treatment um in Lake Arrowhead, California, but then I took the suggestion and I went to sober living and continued outpatient um in Orange County.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the big thing was that like there was a out there back back then 2018, I mean, there was already like a recovery ecosystem in place, right?
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like it had all of the components necessary for an individual to find a life of recovery.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I I'm I go out there and a friend of mine had gotten sober two years before I did and moved to California, and he came down to visit me and was like, man, you've got to come up to the sober living in Thousand Oaks.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: And um, this community out here is amazing, and like there's a certain way that we go through the 12 steps that like I believe, you know, will change your life.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, the last time I'd seen this dude, he couldn't keep a needle out of his arm for longer than two minutes.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: And now I'm looking at this guy, and he had what I could only describe as like a spiritual confidence about him, and um and I wonder what the guy had.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I believed that he believed in his experience, and so um, you know, I moved out to Thousand Oaks into that sober living and got a sponsor and um immediately started into the step work.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, everybody in that recovery home was also doing the recovery work, and I fell in love with my experience.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I started I started having a different experience in the step work than I did before because I was actually applying what I was learning.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, and like everything changed, you know, from there.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: Beautiful.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: And is your buddy still okay too?
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: He he is, yeah.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: He's still he still lives out there and he's he's doing great and he's got a beautiful family, and yeah, it's it's it's pretty remarkable.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: The gifts of recovery.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_00: The gifts of recovery.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, thank you so much for sharing a lot of those points of the story, and I'm so glad you got out of it.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, me too.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: Me too.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um I wanna I want to fast forward a little bit.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: You now have been working in treatment for a decent amount of time.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're now the executive director for Hope in the Hills that runs the Healing Appalachia Music Festival in Kentucky.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_01: What prepared you for that kind of leadership?
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, really, it's a it's a pretty big uh pretty big answer to that because like everything in my recovery journey kind of like led me to be able to be doing what I'm doing today.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: So like I fell in love with that recovery home that I was fortunate enough to get sober in.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um I knew immediately that like I wanted I wanted there to be something like that uh back in Tennessee one day.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so I took I took the opportunities to uh start working for that recovery home, became a house manager, um, you know, did really good at that.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_00: Then they let me kind of take over the operations of all three of the homes and including admissions.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: And those are big jobs.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: They were, yeah, they were.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: They were.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, I I felt like I mean, that's all I wanted to do was work and focus on recovery housing.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so took over the admissions line and and like almost immediately I found out that like 90% of the people calling needing the longer-term recovery care did not have the resources necessary to get it, you know, and then um, you know, I watched the experience of like me e not wanting to get help, but because I had the insurance and the resources, I was able to get placed into a system of care that provided me with a beautiful life.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: While my friend, she wanted to get help, didn't have the resources, and was still stuck in this cycle, right?
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so you know, that happened.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was I was given a job, uh, another job where I was um working in data entry as well, and I was able to listen to music.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm listening to, you know, YouTube one day, and then a song from Tyler Childers came on, and I was like, you know, who is this?
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: What is this music, you know, um, and I I fell in love with the music and felt like this connection immediately, you know, it's like the the hairs on my arm stood up, right?
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's like um, which at the end of the day, like that's that's connection, right?
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: And in a physical it manifest.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and followed him on social media, and then uh that's where I saw him post about this thing called Healing Appalachia, which was a music festival where the funds raised from that festival go to recovery programs in Appalachia.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, so this my new favorite artist like plays at this festival for recovery programs.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, and it's then they're donating to the type of recovery programs, the long-term recovery support programs that like that I'm feeling pulled to help.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was the coolest thing in the world to me.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so everything locked in.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: It all locked in.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so that's 2019, 2020 or so.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, it inspired me.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, what is a nonprofit?
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like I Googled what a nonprofit was, and um, and then you know, while I was in California for three and a half years, and while I'm in California for those three and a half years, I had 13 more friends die from overdoses uh from Tennessee.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I'm it was a lot.
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I'm in this area of California where there's probably more people, young people, right, getting sober than almost anywhere in the U.S.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm 15 minutes from Malibu.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: There's you throw a nickel, you'll hit seven treatment centers, you know.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I kind of became known as the guy to go to whenever someone would lose a friend to overdose.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, oh, well, you need to go talk to Logan because he's lost so many friends.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, you know, this doesn't make sense.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how is it the guy from one of the smallest towns out here is the one that knows more people?
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you become a grief counselor at this point?
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I was definitely not uh equipped for that.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but like I knew that Tennessee uh and the Appalachian region in general was having like a bigger problem.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, so yeah, in 2021, I'm I moved back to Tennessee and um and knew that I wanted to open up a recovery home one day and wanted to start a nonprofit.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I didn't know how I was gonna do that.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: But um, but I knew that no matter what, I wanted to find a way to honor my friend Keith's memory, who had passed away back in 2014.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_01: I was just gonna say, because you said the name Keith when we were outside with your nonprofit, so I kind of put two and two together.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: Dude, that's that's fucking awesome.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was it's pretty rad.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so I went to like a a really I took my friend Keith's mom, her name's Lisa, I took her to a really high-end restaurant called Texas Roadhouse.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: And and then we get to the restaurant and I start telling her about, you know, this concept that I had of, you know, honoring his memory.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to find out what she would be comfortable with, what she would be okay with if she'd be okay with anything.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I brought up these nonprofits, you know, I brought up um Hope in the Hills and Healing Appalachia, and another nonprofit called the Jeremy Castro Foundation.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: Both of those organizations existed to raise funds for individuals without resources to access, you know, care.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's the biggest piece.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_01: That is it.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: That is like wonderful.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate you doing that work.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's what she wanted to do.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so I had like negative$914 in my account and like a credit score of like$614.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: And and uh, and so um we just figured uh I Googled how to start a nonprofit and looked on YouTube and found out that I needed to have a board to do that.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so I asked some other friends from childhood um if they wanted to be involved.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: They all agreed and we just started, you know, we just started doing it.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_01: And um that's cool that you figured it out mostly on your own.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was pretty, it was pretty it was pretty, pretty cool and very fortunate.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, so in in doing that, um, I got connected with uh Tracy Levon with Healing Housing, um, who's probably the best nonprofit executive I've ever met in my life.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: And we be we became friends.
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, several months into that friendship, she goes, Have you ever heard of healing Appalachia?
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: What you're doing is very similar without the music, you know?
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Yeah, have I heard of it?
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm a super fan.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: She's like, Oh, I'm on the board.
• 46:43
  SPEAKER_00: And and so I was like, Of course she is.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: This how could this woman be any cooler?
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and um, you know, a few months later, she she gives me a phone call letting me know that Hope in the Hills was having a concert in Nashville um in collaboration with uh Hello in their Foundation, which is the John Pryden family's um nonprofit.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and that they were going to be giving away four ten thousand dollar checks to Middle Tennessee nonprofits, and that uh Tyler Childers and Jason Isbull were gonna be performing at that um at that concert.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_00: Amazing and that Keith Dixon Foundation was gonna get awarded.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so holy shit.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that was the coolest night of my life, right?
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, I go there is the literally my dream, and um and Tracy had her staff come, and um I had met this other this girl before, but um very and like very like pass like passing by, but you know, um one of her staff members, Morgan, came to that that concert.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and wanted to get into Morgan.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so that's how that's how like I started like speaking with her, you know, as I saw her there.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um I used that like concert as an excuse to start texting her because she had better seats than even though I was getting a check, she had better seats than me.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was like, hey, let me get your number.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I'd love to have pictures of the you know, of like, you know, the the the people at the front of the stage.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh, and I told my friend Nick, I'm like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna date her one day.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, and I started, I told my friend Stan uh Baumgarner, I was like, um, that's my future wife, you know, like I'm gonna marry her, you know.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, okay, Logan, you know, and so that kind of started that.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_00: The issue was I was dating somebody else at the time.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, as that other relationship, excuse me, man.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: So as the other relationship kind of came to a close, I immediately, you know, texted Morgan and and we started dating.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: And um it was pretty much.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_01: And you guys got engaged, and um I'm I'm very very sad to hear about what happened with Morgan.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: And um so your fiance ends up just passing away, and it and it's it's like it's really out of nowhere.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, we can you walk us through that and also, you know, how do you get through the grief of that?
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then your friend Keith passing away, you definitely use that as an excuse to start using more, and like how did you stay on this right path?
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot of questions there, but yeah, and I and I'm and I'm I'm happy to talk about it.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I love talking about it.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: I love talking about her, you know.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and yeah, I mean, so she, you know, one of the things that made me attracted to her was like, so she worked in this field, she was the program director for healing housing, which the the healing housing in general is a program I've admired because they literally have provided like it's one of the best programs in the state.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's the best program in the state.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, I was I was attracted to her, she was beautiful.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so yeah, I was lucky enough to start dating her.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think it took me like five hours to send a text message asking her out, and I was like, you know, hitting my friend Katherine up asking her if what I'm gonna say is okay.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_00: She didn't respond for three hours.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: I thought that I had, you know, you blew it.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, blew it.
• 50:10
  SPEAKER_00: I said the wrong thing.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: I I didn't capitalize words or whatever it was, but no, so we started dating, and um, you know, it was it was for me, it was like a uh, you know, fairy tale, like, you know, kind of love.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I didn't know that something like that existed.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: And so she was also like a fan of healing Appalachia and all and the same kind of music.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so that made me even more attracted to her.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so fast forward to like me getting offered that that job, and um, I was offered the job in in June or early July, and um I officially started full-time uh mid-August, but like I was able to kind of start part-time a little bit.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so like you know, we were excited and it was um it was it was the coolest thing ever, you know.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: And um, but then the you know morning of August 12th, I I wake up and um and she had passed, you know, with no explanation, no idea what had happened.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh and you know I'm I'm really really sorry, and I know that I've just I've heard that you woke up to that.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: I I couldn't even imagine what that's like.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um I and I and I can't really articulate what it's like.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's been the it's been the hardest, yeah.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's been it's been a nightmare.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's been the um been the hardest thing to learn how to um walk with, you know.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, but um, you know, I think Morgan was like one of the strongest people like I've ever known.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_00: She had um she had experienced a lot of loss too, you know, in her life.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: Her a lot of her friends had passed, her best one of her best friends had just passed away.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, she was always the one pushing people to like continue on, right?
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and um, you know, there's there's she was very mission driven.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, it's like I feel like you know, one of the ways that I can honor her memory um and her strength is by like continuing on, you know.
• 52:18
  SPEAKER_00: And keeping that strength moving forward.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she would have wanted that.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and try to try to try to cause enough impact for the both of us, right?
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_00: So like you know, it added another fire to it.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: And she was a big fan of the organization that I just got hired on.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, so like you know, I can do this in honor of her.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't imagine, you know, the everything that uplifted and kind of messed your life up at this point.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then the recovery community and healing housing, like it all these people dealing with this loss.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, it was it was pretty it was a pretty massive loss.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I think um, you know, how dramatic my portion of like the loss was with like, you know, we were supposed to be married November 1st.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_00: This was like 70 days or so before our wedding.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_01: And you're you're figuring out your wedding and this happened.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, people have our wedding invitations on their refrigerator, and so like I do feel like some of like how dramatic my portion um of the loss was has, you know, kind of like overshadowed some of the community at large's.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, I mean, healing housing, who she was for the women of healing housing.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, she was the residence leader, she was some of the staff's leader, you know, her and Tracy um worked together very, very closely every day.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: They were like best friends.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, um, her her mother and her dad, I mean, they she had a wonderful relationship with her family.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it was like one of the best stories of family like reunification, um, and how they how Morgan and Morgan's uh mom and dad co-parented with Morgan's son James was like one of the most beautiful things I'd ever seen.
• 54:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and you know, in the loss for James, right?
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there was there's so much that was lost with her passing.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I was gonna mention like how how is James doing?
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, um, you know, he's he's yeah, I think he's he's walking through it as he's really young.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's 13 and one of the sweetest, most intelligent humans I've ever met in my life.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, do you guys still have a really good?
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, talk to him.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so still talk to him and see him as much as I can.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, he lives in in College Grove with with her parents, and um, I can't speak, you know, any higher of of of of them.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_00: And um, but you know, he's asked me, Hezek, how are you doing?
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, what are you talking about?
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what how am I?
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: How am I doing?
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, yeah, but he's he's he's that kind of he's a lot like his mother, yeah.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, he's just he's a he's a really strong special loving kid.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: And um and yeah, so I mean it's been a it's been a it's it's been a um it's it's been a incredibly difficult six months for myself and for a lot of people.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_00: And um but you know, we I think all of us that that that know Morgan we we know that she wouldn't want us to be stuck in our grief.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um there's a hell of a lot of people that that need help and that's what she did with her life, and and so you're keeping to the mission, just like she would have.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so we just we just keep at it.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: So and she was a she's a big supporter of healing appalachia.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_01: She was.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm I'm just glad that you have this work to and I mean I guess all intents and purposes, like you're you can drown yourself in that.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and still help people and be a part of your community and and not lose focus.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_01: So this is probably what's keeping you from ever going back at this point.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean I think I think like the the beautifulness of like I don't know if that's a word, but like the the awesome opportunity that this job has given me has like been it w it's it's the one of the biggest shining lights of my life.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm so grateful that that light got turned on in the darkest time.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's been like one of the only positive things that I could like head towards.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_00: But um, I think me being able to function is is a direct result of like the outpouring of love that I receive from my family and from the recovery community directly after her loss.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I do have to congratulate you.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_01: I you know, after what happened in August, I saw I don't know, maybe a month or two later that you went on a a trip with Mitzi and Troy and Kim.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's it's gotta be so hard to move on with your life at that point.
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I saw you go on that trip, and you know, I we don't know each other very well, but I looked at those photos and I I didn't see you broken.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_01: I saw you you living your life, and it was really beautiful.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really proud of you.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 57:15
  SPEAKER_01: And it was hard.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, yeah, I had I had to take photos for someone getting engaged, you know.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and my cousin's wedding was a couple days, you know, it wasn't too long after we got back from that trip.
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: But like, you know, the biggest thing I think the the law, her loss and the experience of all of this has shown me uh several things.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_00: But like one thing was the importance of love in general and and and in many different forms.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_00: The I feel so grateful that like I got to experience that type of love in my life.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was real, it was uh beautiful, it was amazing.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people never get to have that.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's a good way of looking at it, and then there's the form of love that I received at you know during her like when she when she passed, right?
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_00: The love that I received from friends and family and um and from Hope in the Hill.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, from every every love came at me in all directions.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_00: I I never have to wonder or question, am I loved?
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: How much am I loved?
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_00: I know, you know, and so is the importance of that, you know.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so you know, I think all of it, and so like, you know, whenever friends are experiencing joyous times, like that's that's the most beautiful thing.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's there's so many things that we focus on in life that we deem more important, but like absolutely nothing is more important than love.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so, like getting to watch Kim and Troy, you know, uh, you know, getting gay marriage was was beautiful.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was the Raddest thing, you know.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_01: So cool.
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um Yeah, and not to move on from this, uh because I I want to talk about Morgan like the rest of the episode because she is she seemed like she is just the best person ever.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but uh just touching on healing appalachia, what makes that different from other music festivals?
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know it is recovery-based, but what do you what would you say that makes that different than other music festivals?
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man, I could talk about that all day.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean I think the the I mean the main thing is that I mean, you know, the so the proceeds from the festival, you know, all of those, all of it above production costs goes to supporting the mission of providing more resources to recovery programs in Appalachia.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you know, I think we use And getting people those resources.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_00: So the funds raised from that goes into our community grant fund where you know organizations apply for um different size grants.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and so all the profits go to grants for recovery programs across Appalachia.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_00: And then it goes to our music music therapy programs.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we have a workforce development program for people and recovery where they get a certification and learn how to work as a stage hand and then get intros into different aspects of the live event industry.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and then we launched our recovery housing scholarship fund as well.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so, um, you know, and everything about the festival is is ran from um, you know, in the cleanest way possible for the environment.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, um, I think the biggest thing is that like those artists give their time, they don't, you know, charge us to come play like they they come to support the mission and like at its core, it's it's humans helping humans and it's Appalachians helping heal Appalachian.
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's the coolest, coolest thing.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_01: What do you guys kind of have on the on the dock for the next one?
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_01: If you if you if you can reveal anything.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_00: 100%, 100%.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_00: So depending on when this is when's this gonna be released?
• 1:00:43
  SPEAKER_01: Probably in a couple months.
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_00: In a couple months, yeah.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_00: So then we'll we're having our uh you know, our 2026 Healing Appalachia Music Festival.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be September 10th through the 12th, and maybe by the time this episode the headliners will have been announced, but I'm not gonna say that yet.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_00: But but I mean we have like some pretty awesome stuff.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, last year we had Tyler Childers and Chris Stapleton among many other amazing artists, but you know, this year we've we've got some some amazing artists again coming to to give their time for an amazing uh cause, you know, and and what we're hoping is that we can have a a bigger impact than we did last year.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so we're excited.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_00: We're excited.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_01: What uh what kind of what impact do you want healing appalachia to have and your work in general?
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I mean I think, you know, ideally, like we in every way possible is that we want to provide funding to programs that are doing the good work, uh, providing long-term recovery services to you know people who need it the most.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I think we've I'm I my personal mission is to get the organization to over a million dollars a year and and giving uh back to the community and through through our grant programs and and to find ways where we can grow and expand our impact.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_01: So you're doing amazing work with it.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_01: I I would love to help at some point in any.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like I was saying earlier, you be careful what you ask for, you know, because I I'll definitely be taking you up on that.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's a recovery-based music fest, helping other people that want recovery with amazing music.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_01: You're giving people this experience that gives back to individuals that are struggling, that don't have the resources.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what could be better.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I feel like, you know, and while while this year has been the hardest and I've walked through one of the worst things a person can walk through, is that like I feel like at least from a work perspective, I'm the luckiest guy in the world, you know, as I get to like work in this really cool intersection of music and recovery, right?
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_00: That like is is very rare, you know.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, they there's that popular TED talk that says that you know, the opposite of addiction is is connection, right?
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I've loved that.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but like I personally don't know of a better tool for connection than music, you know.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's like I talk about earlier, whenever you hear a song that you feel connected to, you have the hairs on your arm stand up, like that's connection.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and it's awesome to see and to be able to be involved with an organization that uses music as a tool for healing, you know, in such a powerful way.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's pretty awesome, man.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for what all of you guys are doing with that music festival.
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I I don't want this to wrap up, but I just have one more thing I want to ask, and I hope that we can come back at some point and talk about what the festival is doing and everything else that you have going on.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because it sounds like you get involved in a lot of different work, you know, whether it be recovery housing, nonprofit, and you know, who knows where you'll be in in another year.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_01: You might have another three projects added on top of that.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, you have work boundaries, yeah, issues.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um if if somebody is stuck in this addiction loop and they can't get out of it, um, what would you say to them?
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_01: Or the family member that's trying to help that person.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_00: I would say to them to just keep trying.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think that's I think that I think that's one of the big things is that I see a lot of people give up and families give up.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think that I would reiterate to them in the strongest uh and most loving way possible that recovery isn't a 28-day process, you know, and that it takes time and it takes patience and grace with yourself, you know.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that's for the individual suffering and the family suffering is that like recovery takes time, you know, and um and so I think that's the that's the biggest thing, and that there is help out there, you know.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a lot of amazing programs regardless of your resources, and you just gotta keep trying.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_01: So especially in this area, a lot of resources now.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I always I always say that a family unit that's trying to help one person is not just that one person that has the issue.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_01: The family members also have issues that are maybe enabling them, whatever it may be, but it takes that whole unit doing work on themselves and work together.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_00: It does, yeah.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think I I I completely agree.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think you know, the the family unit suffers and goes through trauma and and trying to love the the person addicted and afflicted through it, you know.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think for it's gotta be a full everyone's gotta try to heal together.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_01: So I agree, man.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um I I couldn't appreciate you more for doing this.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for for having me.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thanks for everything you shared.
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't wait to see what the festival does this year.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm excited for you to come out.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_01: What you have in store.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_01: And and for the listeners out there, please check out Logan Terry.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, please check out Healing Appalachia.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_01: And if there's any way that you can get involved or help people in recovery, uh please reach out to us.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_01: We would love to help.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, like and subscribe the podcast, uh, pass it to a friend that is curious or just loves recovery or loves living and and learning something new.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but Logan, thank you so much, man.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_01: You're a great dude.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate you.