Latest / The M&M Experience / M and M EXTRA June 4, 2026: When Protest and Anger Turn to Evil

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M and M EXTRA June 4, 2026: When Protest and Anger Turn to Evil · The M&M Experience

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Welcome to a meeting of the minds crafted from decades
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: of talk show experience, an extension of the magic they've
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: created together on radio in the phenomenon called M and
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: M Hot Topics in the News and wisdom from Life.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: It's Mark Davis and Mike Gallagher. This is eminem extra,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: little something extra.
• 0:24
  Speaker 2: As if some hours of radio just aren't enough for
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: the M and M segment we spend together on our
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: shared time on radio. Somebody said, hey, how about a
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: podcast with you guys? We said, okay, I think it's
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: working out great. I'm one M, the Mark Davis. He's
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: the other M, the Mike Gallagher. Happy day, sir. How
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: are you. I'm good.
• 0:41
  Speaker 3: I'm just a little depressed because as we continue to
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: build our YouTube channel and we welcome you. If you're
• 0:46
  Speaker 3: watching right now on YouTube, we welcome you to the
• 0:48
  Speaker 3: podcast world. And we've got hundreds of people that are
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: watching YouTube and we appreciate that. We've got almost four
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: thousand now subscribe to our YouTube channel. However, for some reason,
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: a feed has popped up on my YouTube channel of
• 1:02
  Speaker 3: a looks like a bird, like some kind of a
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  Speaker 3: stork creature with little baby chicks and all it is
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  Speaker 3: is like a static camera over some German town. It's
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: storks neck live webcam storm neck stork. Next, so it
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  Speaker 3: looks like a stork's nest. It's a stork with baby chicks.
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  Speaker 3: And it's one of those static cameras showing. All is
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  Speaker 3: showing is the mother with the chicks over the town.
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  Speaker 3: Two and twenty four people are right now watching that. Now,
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: how how do we get them? How do we get
• 1:37
  Speaker 3: those people to watch eminem extra?
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  Speaker 4: I mean, what do I exactly Put you on a nest,
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  Speaker 4: put on you weary, when you weary of the storks
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  Speaker 4: come and comes comes there Mike to Mark the talking
• 1:49
  Speaker 4: the American talker, speaking of which.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: Oh gosh, well, look, we got a lot going on.
• 1:56
  Speaker 3: You know, we're we're going through the you know, we've
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: got primary election that we're decided where into early June.
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: Summertime is upon us. It's probably one hundred and sixty
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: seven degrees in Dallas today. We got lots of stuff
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: to kind of digest. I thought it'd be kind of
• 2:14
  Speaker 3: of an interesting exercise for you and I to explore
• 2:17
  Speaker 3: a theme that I try to explore often on my
• 2:20
  Speaker 3: show during during the day, and I wonder how much
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: time you spend on the ongoing conflict between good and evil.
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: And to me, Mark, there's no question that we're we're
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  Speaker 3: in the middle of a cultural and spiritual war right
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: now in the world. There is a worldwide battle between
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: good and evil, and it feels to me like we're
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: almost and this is good. You're gonna roll your eyes
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: at me for saying this, but I'm gonna say it anyway.
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  Speaker 3: It almost feels like End Times stuff where good is
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  Speaker 3: portrayed is evil, evil's portrayed is good. It feels biblical,
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: you know, it feels like and maybe one of the
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: stories that has captivated my imagination about this battle between
• 3:05
  Speaker 3: good and evil is the killing of the United Healthcare
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  Speaker 3: CEO Brian Thompson. I want to get into all that
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  Speaker 3: with you in a moment, but can I just can
• 3:13
  Speaker 3: we kick off by talking a little bit about this
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: spiritual battle. You start your show every day, your radio
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  Speaker 3: show in Dallas, every morning with the prayer, which is
• 3:22
  Speaker 3: I love that so much. In fact, when I hear
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: you say it, it kind of fills me with joy
• 3:26
  Speaker 3: and gratitude for our friendship. I love supporting you. I
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: know that you've been and you've been doing it since COVID, right, yep.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: So unfortunately I figured at that time, what's the first
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: thing I need to do is we're all come in
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  Speaker 2: scared to death on COVID said, well, as with other
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: troubling times, what I do in life is pray, So
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: why not on the radio. Haven't stopped for any day since?
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: Like what somebody once said, what we're going to run
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: out of stuff to pray about? Which ties right in
• 3:48
  Speaker 2: what yourself about the scriptural feeling, the spiritual gravity of
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: what we're going through. I feel the same way. I
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: think it's possible to feel that kind of tug of war,
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  Speaker 2: that good versus evil inflection point without necessarily, you know,
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  Speaker 2: going to the end times thing. I can't say it's not.
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  Speaker 2: I never never would. One hundred percent of the people
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  Speaker 2: who have said, you know, the end times are near
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  Speaker 2: have been wrong. You never know. And it's a good
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  Speaker 2: idea to connect your life as if it could be
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  Speaker 2: at any moment. So let's stipulate that true. But I
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  Speaker 2: find great harmony with with what you're talking about, with
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  Speaker 2: with regard to the polar opposites of there's so much
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  Speaker 2: good in the world. There are things to be encouraged
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  Speaker 2: by every day. But wow, when we are shooting CEOs
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  Speaker 2: cold blood in the street, that's bad enough. But when
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: the people who do that develop a fan base and
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  Speaker 2: the modern culture, that's when you know something has come
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  Speaker 2: off the rails.
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  Speaker 3: I had a guy call me a couple of weeks
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  Speaker 3: ago when I mentioned the loonies who are fans of Luigi,
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  Speaker 3: and I think they what do they call a mangione
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: anix or something there's is now or Mangionistas. They've given
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: themselves a name, and it is largely young, liberal white
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  Speaker 3: women who are infatuated with Luigi Mangione. And you know,
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  Speaker 3: I started with this first, with this phenomenon, first began.
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  Speaker 3: I chalked it off to you know, he's a good
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: looking guy, right, He's he's a handsome kid, and maybe
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: you know, there are twisted, depraved young women who just
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: like bad boys who are handsome, and they fantasize about
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: having a boyfriend who might be this good looking young
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: guy and he's a but it's deep, it's way beyond that.
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: It's not just his looks, it's what he did. And
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  Speaker 3: I had a call a couple of weeks ago, guy,
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  Speaker 3: I'll never forget this is a guy call her by
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  Speaker 3: the name of Sam And he said, well, what would
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  Speaker 3: you have Luigi Mangeone do. The healthcare insurance industry is
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  Speaker 3: so corrupt and so awful and wicked. And I tried
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  Speaker 3: to say to the guy, look, we can debate all
• 6:01
  Speaker 3: day long the merits or the failings of the healthcare
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  Speaker 3: insurance industry. Absolutely, people get denied coverage who shouldn't be
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  Speaker 3: denied coverage. Everybody's got a horror story about their insurance,
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  Speaker 3: their insurer, you know, for healthcare. But you don't pick
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  Speaker 3: up a gun and execute the CEO of a company
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  Speaker 3: because you've got problems with the way the healthcare insurance
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  Speaker 3: industry works. And the guy acted startled that I said that.
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  Speaker 3: He said, well, what's he supposed to do? You're not
• 6:32
  Speaker 3: telling me what he's supposed to do. I said, well,
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  Speaker 3: he's not supposed to kill the CEO of a healthcare company,
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  Speaker 3: a healthcare insurance company. And Mark I couldn't get through
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: to the guy. I was so frustrated. But this is
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  Speaker 3: the mindset of a lot of people who I think
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  Speaker 3: failed to even absorb the enormity of a young husband
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  Speaker 3: and a father of a couple of teenage kids gets
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  Speaker 3: slaughtered walking down Sixth Avenue in front of the Share
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  Speaker 3: It a hotel in New York City, and they think
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  Speaker 3: that's okay. I'm I and I really weep for people
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  Speaker 3: like Sam who've just gotten so swept away that they
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: think murder is all right.
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  Speaker 2: And I don't know where, I don't know how to
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: where to go with that market. Well, then the first
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: step would seem to be to try to identify the
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: problem in a in a step toward analyzing it, if
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: it even can be analyzed. What you've just described as
• 7:27
  Speaker 2: a subset of the larger phenomenon that you and I
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: see many many days in the coverage, from trying to
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: kill Trump to you know, anyone of a number of
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: other things that if it's a leftist thing of the moment,
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: that if they are on the right side, if they
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  Speaker 2: perceive themselves as sufficiently on the right side, then anything
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  Speaker 2: is permissible. Calling somebody Hitler is permissible. Trying to kill
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  Speaker 2: somebody is permissible. Don't like your healthcare coverage? Killing the
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  Speaker 2: CEO is permissible. Uh, I don't like a baseball field
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  Speaker 2: full of Republicans, Go try to kill them. As happened
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  Speaker 2: a few years ago in the can like a Charlie
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  Speaker 2: Kirk kill it appreiating, it tis thank you, the prime
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  Speaker 2: example of the last year. So this is it's a
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  Speaker 2: maturity problem, and it's an intellectual bankruptcy problem. It is
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  Speaker 2: a societal sickness problem that rather than do what grown
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  Speaker 2: ups are supposed to do, and that is take a
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  Speaker 2: look at a problem, something that's frustrating, try to get
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: out there and fight through the system to make it better.
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  Speaker 2: Try to do some type of activism that is constructive
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  Speaker 2: and the hard work that leads to something good. That's
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: that's too many syllables, that's too much heavy lifting. Instead,
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  Speaker 2: let's go kill people. Let's go ruin people's lives. Let's
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: go immediately press the savagery button. Because evil, as we
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: will discuss further, evil exists. It can tug at us
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  Speaker 2: at all times, just the instinct to do whether it's
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: a bad thing like shoplift, or a really bad thing
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: like cheat on your spouse, or a really bad thing
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  Speaker 2: like kill or rape somebody, it is. Evil does exist,
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  Speaker 2: and these folks are willing to surrender to their evil
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  Speaker 2: instincts if it satisfies some social or political goal they have.
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  Speaker 3: You know, it was so hard not to take the
• 9:13
  Speaker 3: jubilance over Charlie Kirk's murder personally because we all knew
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  Speaker 3: him here. He was one of our colleagues. In fact,
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: you talk about podcasting and YouTube and all that, he
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  Speaker 3: was a phenomenon. And you know, I got to spend
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  Speaker 3: some time with him, and he and I texted back
• 9:30
  Speaker 3: and forth and we we we You know, Charlie grew
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: up on talk radio, and Andrew Colvett once said he
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: grew up listening to Rush Limbaugh and Mike Gallagher, which
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: was very, very heartwarming to me. And so when I
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: saw people like you see the videos of the like
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: the woman that did the shooting motion to her neck
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  Speaker 3: a bang bang when a car was driving by. She
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: turned out to be a teacher, a teacher mocking Charlie's
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  Speaker 3: assass nation.
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  Speaker 2: You see, You've seen.
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  Speaker 3: Nurses, healthcare professionals, people from walks of life that are
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  Speaker 3: supposed to be.
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  Speaker 2: I'm not caring for people. Do you want these people
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  Speaker 2: near your your uncle in the hospital. Do you want
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: these people near your children?
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: Hell no, hell no, I mean not even within a
• 10:18
  Speaker 3: million miles of them. But I but it was hard
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: not to take that personally because I wanted to.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: I wanted to.
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  Speaker 3: I wasn't even mad, I was so sadden because I
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: wanted to say, did you ever spend any time with him?
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: Did you ever see what he was about? And what
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: he was about was debate and dissent and and and
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: and kind of a good faith, good faith arguing, you know,
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: go to a college campus and try to win people over,
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: prove me wrong. That was his whole his whole thing.
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  Speaker 3: And the hatred that these people have in their hearts
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: because ideologically they may not have agreed with him, you know, Mark,
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: ideologically differ with so many people on the left. I
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: don't want one hair on their head harmed. I don't
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: want anything to happen to them. I don't want them hurt.
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: But for people to go to this dark dark spot, Look,
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  Speaker 3: we are we are broken as a society right now. Mark,
• 11:15
  Speaker 3: and I don't know how to get I don't know
• 11:17
  Speaker 3: how to get the toothpaste back into the tube, do you.
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: I don't magically by weighing any way, by waving any
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: particular Wand I remember a quote from Charlie who said
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: that when we stop talking, that's when violence rushes in
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: to fill the void. If we can talk to each other.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: If we can argue about things, debate certain things, everybody
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: gets the satisfaction of feeling that their voices heard their pointing.
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  Speaker 2: You may prevail, you may not, but at least we're
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: talking about stuff. And when we wall that off, that
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: is when frustrations boil and they go, well, I think
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  Speaker 2: I need to shoot somebody. The folks in this violent
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: chapter that you talk about have short circuited that process.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: And Jessica, listen, I'm frustrated. Somebody's got to die. Something's
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: not going my way, somebody's got to die. Something is
• 12:01
  Speaker 2: bugging me. I'm taking to the streets violently. It's just
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: this spinal arc that leads people straight to the most
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: extreme crank it up to eleven solution, and I I
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: don't know how to fix it.
• 12:14
  Speaker 3: I don't know how to fix it either, other than
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: to try to gently persuade people that this is wrong.
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: A couple of weeks ago, Mangione had an evidentiary hearing
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: in the New York City Courthouse where a judge ruled
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: that some of the evidence that was confiscated by the
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: police the day that Luigi was arrested would not be
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: admissible in court. Some of it was allowed to be
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: admissible because they that was the and I don't get
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: this distinction. Maybe our lawyer audience can help me with this.
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: So the police at the McDonald's took stuff out of
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: his backpack, and that was unlawful apparently because they didn't
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: have a search warrant. It was his possession, they weren't
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: allowed to do it. But then they brought him and
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: the backpack to the police station, and then they took
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: items at the police station, including the glock that he
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: apparently used. While that's admissible because they took it out
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: of the bag at the police station, but not of
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: the McDonald's.
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  Speaker 2: Can you make any sense of that? Does that make
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: any sense to you? I can't, and I have had
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: a solution banging around my head about things like that.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: Just as a moment of an asterisk to put in this.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: There was a movie in the middle eighties called The
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: Star Chamber Michael Douglass. It was a rogue group of
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: judges found a way to take vigilante action against people
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: who had been let out on technicalities. Just like what
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: you've described. There need to be rules of evidence. There
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: absolutely do. If rules of evidence are broken or short
• 13:44
  Speaker 2: circuited or not followed correctly. There ought to be a
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: sanction to the officers who do things wrong. Where did
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: somebody sit in a room and say, well, if we
• 13:51
  Speaker 2: have a piece of evidence that's one hundred percent valid,
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: one hundred percent indicative of guilt, we just can't use
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: it because because of the process failure. That seems weird
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: to me. So let's have people. Let let's have cops
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: and investigators face a sanction when they don't gather things properly,
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: but you don't use it as an excuse to let
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: it obviously guilty person go.
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: And unfortunately some of the evidence that they found are
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: things like zip zip ties, a passport, all kinds of
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: crazy stuff that suggests. But the good news is they
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: are going to admit the gun. The gun was evidently
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: completely one hundred percent tied to the shooting of Brian Thompson. Uh.
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: And by the way, you I want to go back
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: to the star Chamber for just a moment, because there's
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: you know, there's this great theme that very popular movies
• 14:42
  Speaker 3: and TV shows sometimes embrace. It's and it's around vigil
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: anti justice. You know, it's kind of the vigilanteism. Do
• 14:48
  Speaker 3: you ever did you get into Dexter?
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: The short answer is no, he was a medical examiner guy.
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: I'm aware of it, but help me out. Yeah, what's
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: his name?
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: I forget the actor's name that played He was six
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: feet under that's right, which I absolutely loved. Well, Dexter
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: is grown. I mean, it's very violent and graphic because
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: Michael Michael Seahall. He played this creepy character who learned
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: how to be a serial killer from his dad, who
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: was a cop, and he worked as a forensic specialist
• 15:19
  Speaker 3: for a police department's medical examiner team. But what he
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: did was he would he would come across a bad
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: guy who got away with something like a horrible person,
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: child rapist or murderer or a kidnap, whatever, rapist, and
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: he would he would kill them.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: He would kill them.
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: He would dispense his own brand of justice by getting
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: the bad guys off the streets, by tying them onto
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: a onto a cot somewhere and torture and killing them.
• 15:45
  Speaker 3: And it was just really a wild wat and the
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: thought of viv But that also makes me think about
• 15:51
  Speaker 3: when I worked at w ABC. There's a great, great
• 15:55
  Speaker 3: radio legend named Johnny Donovan. Did you ever meet Johnny
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: when you guest hosted for Rush Limbaugh. No, but I
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: understand him as the voiceover talent behind so many great broadcasts.
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: He used to be one of the WABC originals back
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: in the day. I mean he was rock and roll
• 16:09
  Speaker 3: and all that, and in his later years when I
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: was there in the early gosh, that would have been
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: mid nineties, mid to late nineties, and I was the
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: morning host at WABC in New York, which was Rush's
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: flagship station. Johnny was his voice guy. And Johnny was
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: like he had contributed a lot of content to Rush,
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: and they really loved each other. And Johnny was this quirky, funny,
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: fun guy who's an old radio veteran, right, and he
• 16:36
  Speaker 3: was loved to be hanging around and doing the stuff
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: with Rush. Johnny had a rule that if he was
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: the emperor of the world, he goes, I know how
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: to make the world a better place. I know how
• 16:47
  Speaker 3: to make the world kinder, gentler, and more polite. I said, well,
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: what would that be, Johnny, Because we were hanging out
• 16:54
  Speaker 3: in the break room one day, he said, I call
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: it the one kill rule. I said, what's the one
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: kill rule? He said, everybody is allowed to kill one
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: person in their lifetime and get away with it, So
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: everybody can kill with impunity. But if everybody knew that
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: if you cross somebody, or argue with somebody, or you
• 17:14
  Speaker 3: do something, you would get you would. So the one
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: kill rule would make us all polite and kind to
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: each other because nobody's everybody's going to be afraid of
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: getting killed.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: And many fact, no one would actually die. It would
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: simply result in an instantly more mannerly society.
• 17:30
  Speaker 3: That's correct, now, I think everybody would wind up getting
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: killed and there be nobody left within the day, within
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: that morning. But anyway, that was Johnny Donovan and the
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: vigilante stuff they made me think about on the Star Chamber.
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: So let's go back to Luigi for just a moment.
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: So a couple of weeks ago, there were three young women,
• 17:47
  Speaker 3: all like white and Hispanic, I guess, liberal women, and
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: they somehow amazingly got press credentials from the City of
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: New York to cover the Luigi Mangione trial. Press credentials. Now,
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: I used to have one of these back when I
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: worked at ABC in New York, and you got to
• 18:07
  Speaker 3: go through a lot and jump through a lot of
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: you you can't because it gives you access to crime
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: scenes and fires and you know, and I and I
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: got one back in the day. But they you got
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: to give them examples of your journalistic work and you know,
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: and and have you covered you know, breaking news stories,
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: and we need five exits. You got to go through
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: a lot. Check out the way your buddy Will Kane
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: described it a couple of weeks ago. And incidentally, I
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: wish you'd be on that show every day. Will's in
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: Dallas were very kind to me, very well, and they
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: should be, because you're fantastic on Will's show, and I
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: love seeing you on his show. He seems to be
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: a great young guy. I've never met Will before, but
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: he obviously likes you, as do so many others like
• 18:49
  Speaker 3: Chris Cuomo and others in the television industry. And they
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: should utilize your talents as much as for me. By
• 18:55
  Speaker 3: the way, I don't want to do any TV.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: I said, You've had your your.
• 18:59
  Speaker 3: Ride, had my pill, I had my run. I like
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: what we do. I like I got enough hours in
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: the day, and it's just not something that I've I've
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: ever wanted to pursue after and I was a Fox
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: News contributor for about twelve years and enjoyed it. I
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: would till a guy dumped a milkshake on my head.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: If I get a milkshake on my head, my days
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: of National TV are over. So I'll put that as
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: the bar.
• 19:22
  Speaker 3: It really, you know, we joke about it, but it
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: was really a moment where it was like enlightening to
• 19:26
  Speaker 3: me because I'm like, look, it may be a milkshake today,
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: but it may be something worse tomorrow. And I don't
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: have security. I don't know, I don't have some bodyguards,
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: and you know I'm not going to do now. Frankly,
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: the Fox News folks have bodyguards all the time. I
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: hate the way they have to live. And I hope
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: I'm not giving anything up or talking out of school here.
• 19:47
  Speaker 3: But Sean and Laura and Jesse and all those guys
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: they've got secure. They got a lot of Fox News
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: takes that very very seriously, especially after the assassination of
• 19:59
  Speaker 3: our friend.
• 19:59
  Speaker 2: And look at what we're talking about. Look at that
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: a world in which people if they they instead of
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: going from I don't like you to I won't watch
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: you or I don't like you and maybe I'll write
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: you an angry letter, or I don't like you, so
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: maybe I'll do a petition drive against your advertisers, or
• 20:15
  Speaker 2: I don't like you anyone of the ten other things
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: you do. Now it's I don't like you. I'm going
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: to attack you, literally and physically. That's why such things
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: are necessary. It's uh, it's uh.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: And now we're in a world where women, young women
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: covering a trial say the most unspeakable things about the
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: family members left behind of Brian Thompson, about his children.
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: Here's the way your pal Will Caine at Fox News
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: described this a couple of weeks ago.
• 20:43
  Speaker 5: Psychosis.
• 20:44
  Speaker 6: Today in New York City, in particular, a trio of
• 20:49
  Speaker 6: bloodthirsty women, big fans of Luigi Mangioni, and somehow granted
• 20:56
  Speaker 6: press passes by city Hall.
• 20:58
  Speaker 5: Here they are camped out outside the courthouse.
• 21:02
  Speaker 6: Now why the backdrop for their appearance today was an
• 21:05
  Speaker 6: evidence suppression hearing for the accused United Healthcare CEO killer,
• 21:10
  Speaker 6: during which the judge handed prosecutor is a pretty big
• 21:13
  Speaker 6: victory in granting Luigi Manjoni's bid to suppress some of
• 21:16
  Speaker 6: the evidence at his murder trial.
• 21:18
  Speaker 5: Here's the judge had to say, the.
• 21:19
  Speaker 6: Evidence foundering the search of the backpack at McDonald's must
• 21:23
  Speaker 6: be suppressed. That included the magazine, cell phone, passport, wallet,
• 21:28
  Speaker 6: and computer chip. But all the evidence gathered at the
• 21:33
  Speaker 6: police station is still admissible, and that includes the three
• 21:37
  Speaker 6: D printed gun, the silencer, importantly, the red notebook, the
• 21:42
  Speaker 6: quote unquote manifesto.
• 21:44
  Speaker 5: All that's still on the table.
• 21:46
  Speaker 6: But let's get back to the sickness, the ugliness outside
• 21:50
  Speaker 6: the courtroom, because it's profane, it's vulgar. It's actually something
• 21:54
  Speaker 6: hard for us to imagine walking around as normal citizens
• 21:57
  Speaker 6: in America, interacting with our fellow citizens, thinking exists this
• 22:02
  Speaker 6: kind of sickness. Those three aforementioned ladies, the fans of
• 22:07
  Speaker 6: Luigi Mangion. You have Ashley Rojas for one, who had
• 22:12
  Speaker 6: this message outside the hearing. I wish I could play
• 22:14
  Speaker 6: for the video because the tone, the confidence, the certainty,
• 22:18
  Speaker 6: the flippancy of these women's comments is just as important
• 22:23
  Speaker 6: of the actual words. But let those words linger on
• 22:25
  Speaker 6: the screen before I read them to you, Ashley Rojas
• 22:28
  Speaker 6: said F. Brian Thompson. She of course didn't censor herself.
• 22:33
  Speaker 6: She said, that's all I want to say. I stand
• 22:35
  Speaker 6: on business. F. Brian Thompson.
• 22:37
  Speaker 5: F His mom.
• 22:39
  Speaker 6: Another perhaps the most obnoxious, and now I've set the
• 22:42
  Speaker 6: bar pretty high. But the most obnoxious named Lena Weissbrat,
• 22:47
  Speaker 6: had this to say, his children are better off without him.
• 22:51
  Speaker 6: They need to learn not to be like their dad.
• 22:54
  Speaker 6: By the way, enjoy the blood money, kids. He's responsible
• 22:57
  Speaker 6: for more deaths than Osama bin Lauden. And I remember
• 23:00
  Speaker 6: Americans celebrating when Asama bin.
• 23:03
  Speaker 5: Lauden was killed.
• 23:03
  Speaker 6: It's not like we don't understand heroic violence or like
• 23:07
  Speaker 6: when violence is good. If I'd had this video, we
• 23:10
  Speaker 6: would want to play all ninety seconds for you uninterrupted.
• 23:14
  Speaker 5: And I know that some of you would have said
• 23:15
  Speaker 5: to me, why I play that?
• 23:16
  Speaker 6: That's gross. I don't want to see that. I want
• 23:17
  Speaker 6: to hear that. But I think you should. I think
• 23:19
  Speaker 6: you should read those words on the screen. I think
• 23:21
  Speaker 6: you should know that this walks amongst you. This dress
• 23:24
  Speaker 6: is in colorful hair, black and white, green and white,
• 23:28
  Speaker 6: green and black, purple and black stripes.
• 23:30
  Speaker 5: Fancy. This is dressed like a forties flapper girl.
• 23:34
  Speaker 6: This is dressed like people who think that they're cool,
• 23:37
  Speaker 6: walk around thinking they're normal, and walking around thinking you're
• 23:40
  Speaker 6: the one who's insane.
• 23:41
  Speaker 5: They have sanctioned murder.
• 23:43
  Speaker 6: They're blood thirsty, they ask for it, they sanction it,
• 23:46
  Speaker 6: they glorify murder.
• 23:48
  Speaker 5: And this is where we are.
• 23:50
  Speaker 6: The only real question, I think for you and the
• 23:52
  Speaker 6: only real question for me, is to say, what do
• 23:55
  Speaker 6: we do with fellow citizens who have gotten to this
• 23:57
  Speaker 6: place in their mind?
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: That's a great question that he asked, is spectacular?
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: Isn't that good? And he asks a question that I'm
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: going to ask you again. We kind of go back
• 24:07
  Speaker 3: to this a little bit. We asked this, talked about
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: this earlier. What do we do with people like this?
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: What do we do with people who think this is normal?
• 24:15
  Speaker 3: Because you know, my first inclination, you got to get
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: him hospitalized, You got to get him into a mental institution.
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: You got to get him to a doctor or a therapist,
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: because aren't these people dangerous?
• 24:28
  Speaker 5: Mark?
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: They are, But we don't do future crime like what's
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: the Spielberg movie Minority Report. I think you might be
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: about to do. Repellent and repugnant speech is still protected,
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: but I think it goes in steps. And one thing
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: that will said, this is a debate you and I
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: have had also is about how much attention do we cast?
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: How much light do we shine on disgusting things that
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: people say, whether it's what be Goldberg, Bruce Springsteen, which
• 24:53
  Speaker 2: is usually just political hatred, this is pathologically embracing murder.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: But no matter what cauldron of slop it comes from,
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: I guess the first step is playing it and drawing
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: some attention to it so that people, as Will said,
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: you should know that this walks among you. You should
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: know because there may be people going, wow, I didn't
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: believe people thought that way or said such terrible things.
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: And if we can spark a sufficient level of concern
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: where we can lovingly go about in our own I
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: assume these people have friends, and some of their friends
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: are not as as deranged as they are, and maybe
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: in some kind a flow chart of human connectivity, they
• 25:37
  Speaker 2: are able to have somebody talk to somebody, talk to
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: somebody to say, don't be like that. If you want
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: to be a healthcare industry lobbyist or to lobby against
• 25:47
  Speaker 2: a big pharma, do it. If you want a big
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: healthcare do it. Whatever you want to do, do it,
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: but don't be like that. Just somebody positive in their lives,
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: some influence, some societal or personal connection that calls on
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: people to take a better path.
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: I often think about your admonition that we need to
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: know what to avoid. I often think about should I
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: give this issue attention? Should we respond to these people?
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: To react to this people? And you just you just
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: touched on that a moment ago where you've got to
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: confront it, You've got to expose it, you've got to
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: reveal it, and you've got to call it out. On
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: the other hand, it makes me wonder in the have
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: we changed the way we react to these things over
• 26:28
  Speaker 3: the course of say, the last fifty years, in other words,
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: where these people always are among us and we just
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: didn't really react to them. We didn't spotlight them, we
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: didn't give them platforms. There wasn't social media so they
• 26:40
  Speaker 3: couldn't get online. Or is it getting worse right now?
• 26:44
  Speaker 3: I often struggle with wondering is society getting more immune
• 26:51
  Speaker 3: to any kind of moral conscience conscience? Are people becoming
• 26:55
  Speaker 3: more susceptible to embracing violence as an alternative? Or was
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: it always like this and now these people just have
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: a bigger megaphone.
• 27:05
  Speaker 2: I think it is getting somewhat worse that the social
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: media platforms and soapboxes make it possible for people who
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: are this twisted to get an instant audience, And then
• 27:16
  Speaker 2: that's exacerbated further when you realize that if somebody has
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: just a slight bent in them, if somebody has a
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: little bit of an instinct done and says, you know,
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: I might want to say something disgusting. I might want
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: to weigh in with something that's cranked up to twelve.
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: I may want to deliver some hot and offensive take.
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: They'll realize that it is likely to get oh, I
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: don't know, attention on Fox News or attention on a podcast,
• 27:40
  Speaker 2: which is the other side of the argument with the
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: other side of the coin. If one side says shine
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: light on it, cast attention to it, it's the first
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: step towards solving it. To identify what the problem is.
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: You also have to realize the flip side of that
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: coin is we're giving some of these creatures exactly what
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: they want, the light of attention and the appeal of clicks.
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: Years ago, I was a host on WGY radio in Albany,
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: and it was a great couple of years. I had
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: a great run there, and I learned about a guy
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: named Ernst Zundel who was going to be on local
• 28:18
  Speaker 3: cable access in Albany. He was a Holocaust denier, and
• 28:24
  Speaker 3: in fact, he was persecuted and prosecuted around the world.
• 28:27
  Speaker 3: I think in Germany, I think he wound up going
• 28:28
  Speaker 3: to jail. But what he would do would be he
• 28:31
  Speaker 3: would place blocks of programming with his anti Holocaust garbage
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: on the local cable access channels all over America for free,
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: because you don't have to pay for that, you know,
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: and you can just make the case that I'm presenting
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: a point of view and I want to be able
• 28:47
  Speaker 3: to share this with you with people. And I learned
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: about it and I wanted to spotlight it on the show.
• 28:52
  Speaker 3: It was a big, fifty thousand watt station, you know,
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: a big, big powerhouse station in Albany, New York. And
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: so I invited the guy on my show to call
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: him out, to expose him, to confront him. Well, the
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: local Jewish advocacy groups in Albany were mortified that I
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: would give him airtime. And I'll never forget this. There
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: was a woman named Shelley Shapiro who was leading like
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: a boycott against the Mike Gallagher Show. And the day
• 29:23
  Speaker 3: that I interviewed him, a group of are you ready
• 29:26
  Speaker 3: for this? Holocaust survivors showed up in the station parking
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: lot to protest me, and I mean.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: It didn't it because this is so wild. As soon
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: as you finished, I had, almost the same thing happened,
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: but you you finished yours first. But the question I
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: have for you is didn't they get that rather than
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: your whole point was to shine light, to turn on
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: the light so the cockroaches scatter. You know that metaphor
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: supposed you were there was a strong ally. You were
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: serving as a strong ally to their cause by showing
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: the world this horrible point of view exists, and I'm
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: going to skewer it. I would well would have known
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: that that's what you were about.
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: Well they didn't. They actually didn't, and they never did.
• 30:11
  Speaker 3: And I'll never forget looking out that window. And I
• 30:13
  Speaker 3: was so hurt because I thought the fact that I'm
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: bringing pain to actual holocaust. One woman was that there
• 30:20
  Speaker 3: were the local TV cameras were there to cover the
• 30:22
  Speaker 3: protest and all that, and she left it up her
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: sleeve and showed her her number tattooed on her arm.
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: And I thought, you're protesting me when I'm I'm on
• 30:30
  Speaker 3: your side, ma'am. I'm trying to and and here's the
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: moral of the story, and I want to hear your story.
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: But here's the here's the happy ending of that wild chapter.
• 30:40
  Speaker 3: The local cable access company canceled his appearance. They didn't
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: let him do his show on the local cable access
• 30:46
  Speaker 3: So it worked. I mean, they stopped it and they
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: wouldn't air air that that goofy show. So I was
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: glad for that, but I went through a lot of
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: pain and misery because I didn't want to hurt Jewish holocausts.
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: And that was it was the opposite of your intent.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: So this is wild. It's nineteen ninety one or nineteen
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: ninety two. I'm at WRC in Washington. A book arrives
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: in the mail about Holocaust denial, Like what, what in
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: the world even? I mean, I was familiar with it,
• 31:12
  Speaker 2: but as I read it, I thought, how in the
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: world can anybody feel this way or be like this?
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: And being big silly radio guy, the first thing that
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: occurs to me is, let's talk to him, Let's put
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: this under the microscope. Let me challenge this guy on
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: a number of things. Make clear I was going to
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: do it, and I also immediately got some pushback from
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: people who are on the board of I mean, in Washington,
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: the National Holocaust Memorial Museum. So it's like what And
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: it became a big thing. And I wrote them back
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: and I said, please understand my point here. I mean,
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: I can understand if somebody says these people should not
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: even be given the time of day or any light
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: of attention. I totally get that. The reason I'm going
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: to do it is I think that anybody listening will
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: show by virtue of what I plan to do with
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: this segment. I'm not going to humiliate anybody or beat
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: anybody up. I'm just going to thoughtfully age and make
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: clear the intellectual vacancy of their point of view and
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: what wound up happening. And this is another sort of
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: happy ending, if you will. Some folks in the Washington
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: Jewish community wrote to those folks who were on the
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: board of the Holocaust Museum, quite the heavy hitters, and said, guys,
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: don't turn a friend into an enemy. You will have
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: no greater ally than Mark Davis. That not only will
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: no harm come from this, some actual good could come
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: of this. And that calmed the waters. And I did,
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: and I did the segment, and almost everybody wish I
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: had Lord, I wish there were tapes because it was
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: pretty great. The guy he tried, but ultimately it's not
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: like he withered under my irresistible logic. But it was
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: just pretty clear that that it was from some strange
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: cauldron of denial.
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: Quite literally, you want to and let me, let me
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: tie a bow around this as we call it a day,
• 32:53
  Speaker 3: and let me share with you the conclusion to my
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: story which ties into yours. And it's kind of it's
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: it's kind of chilling. We both had similar experiences. The
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: station management, facing all the protests and the boycott threats
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: and all of that, they thought it would be a
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: good idea to send me to the National Holocaust Memorial
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: Museum in Washington, d C. Where and I said, okay, sure,
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: and I went, almost as an acknowledgment that this issue
• 33:21
  Speaker 3: was sensitive to the Jewish community in Albany. And I
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: went and visited the and I had never been there before,
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: And of course it was an incredible experience.
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: Of course it is I appreciate it being able to
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: go no, of course, of course, of course, but I
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: don't know if people listening are watching feel this way.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: As you tell that it sounded like punishment, not punishment.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: It sounded like you need to atone by going as
• 33:44
  Speaker 2: if you needed to be sensitized. Well, see it that way.
• 33:48
  Speaker 3: I will let the audience make that decision, because that
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: was many years ago, and you can decide for yourself. Look,
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: it wasn't my station. It's their candy store. And I
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: went because they thought that.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: Would be a good idea if and it would have
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: you know what, as soon as I say that, it
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: would have been horrible optics for you to go. I
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: don't need to go to the Homo Growth Museum. I
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: am virtuous of that. So did the right thing, and
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: that is and to this day it remains one of
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: the hallmark experiences listens that there isn't enough to see
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: in Washington. It is something every American, everybody should go.
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: It's a remarkable experience. Just just be prepared.
• 34:23
  Speaker 3: It's emotionally very very epic. Okay, that's a wrap. I
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: appreciate it, great seeing.
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: I love you. Let's do it next time. Eminem Extra,
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: We're here for you every day. Thanks for hanging out.