Latest / The SME Stream / Liam Dann: NZ Herald business editor at large responds to 2024 Mood of the Boardroom survey

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Liam Dann: NZ Herald business editor at large responds to 2024 Mood of the Boardroom survey · The SME Stream

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  Speaker 1: Sixteen pass six on news Talks edb Liam Dan, the
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  Speaker 1: New Zealand Heral Business editor at large, was keeping a
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  Speaker 1: close eye on the mood of the boardroom today. Get
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  Speaker 1: a Liam Jack, I think, yeah, very well, thanks. So
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  Speaker 1: what did you make of the superannuation called?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah? Heartening? From my point of view as someone who
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  Speaker 2: sits there and worries about our ability to pay for things,
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  Speaker 2: I guess you know when you looked at listen to
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  Speaker 2: what was said in that debate, it's hard to make
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  Speaker 2: a news story out of it, exactly because Barbara Edmonds
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  Speaker 2: was very careful about what you said. You just said,
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  Speaker 2: we're open to the conversation, but you know, you it felt
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  Speaker 2: like the body language and so forth, that there could
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  Speaker 2: be some mood for change there, which of course would
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  Speaker 2: put national could put national neighbor on the same page,
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  Speaker 2: and bipartisan sort of stuff like that is pretty powerful.
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  Speaker 2: That the roadblock to it actually at the moment in
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  Speaker 2: the current coalition is of course New Zealand first and
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  Speaker 2: Winston Peter, who has been resistant for a long time.
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  Speaker 2: But you know, I know he's he's got a large
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  Speaker 2: base of older voters, but it really doesn't affect him
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  Speaker 2: if we're honest, it's you're talking about raising the superage
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  Speaker 2: over a long period. I think the original plan under
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  Speaker 2: Bill English twenty seventeen was to lift it for twenty
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  Speaker 2: forty so, you know, I don't know what a new
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  Speaker 2: one would look like, but there was there was a
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  Speaker 2: large consensus I guess seventy seven percent plus of those
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  Speaker 2: business leaders who see that we need to have a
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  Speaker 2: debate about the tax base because we're not going to
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  Speaker 2: be taking enough tax because it's just demographics. We're going
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  Speaker 2: to have fewer, fewer younger people, more older people. That
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  Speaker 2: means more people I guess to support, and fewer people
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  Speaker 2: actually generating income tax. And at the moment, of course,
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  Speaker 2: our tax system is built on income tax, not on
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  Speaker 2: other kinds of tax. Dore I go near that debate.
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  Speaker 1: No, avoid it, trust me learn Hey, I mean that's
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  Speaker 1: a that's you know, That's what I find really interesting
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  Speaker 1: about this, right. So, not only because of the demographic changes,
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  Speaker 1: are we going to face the pressures of supporting people
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  Speaker 1: through the superannuation payments themselves like the four ninely payments.
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  Speaker 1: But the problem is when you have an older population,
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  Speaker 1: your healthcare costs massively increase as well. Because like you know,
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  Speaker 1: generally the average twenty five year old doesn't cost nearly
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  Speaker 1: as much to the health system as someone who's seventy five,
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  Speaker 1: right or eighty five. That generally the older you are,
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  Speaker 1: the more you cost. So you have all of these
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  Speaker 1: pressures that come with those demographic changes, not just represented
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  Speaker 1: in super but when you combine them together. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: and given we're already in a structural deficit, it's very
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  Speaker 1: hard to see how we're going to Well, we'd like it,
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  Speaker 1: and we'd all like to.
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  Speaker 2: Keep that first world health system into our later years.
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  Speaker 2: I think, you know, it does leave you with options
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  Speaker 2: that are either tax more, spend less or the one
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  Speaker 2: that all the politicians always fall back on is that
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  Speaker 2: we're going to deliver policies which drive productivity, and zeone
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  Speaker 2: is going to be But you know, the issue is
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  Speaker 2: do we really have the right economy to do that,
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  Speaker 2: even if things are you know, starting to improve, or
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  Speaker 2: there's signs of hope or another cyclical upturn as you know,
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  Speaker 2: rising house prices and the immigration going to be enough
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  Speaker 2: this time while only announce is probably not. We're not
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  Speaker 2: going to have another China boom the way we did
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  Speaker 2: have so we're looking for something else, a bit deeper
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  Speaker 2: and a bit more structural. I think it was happening today.
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  Speaker 2: I think, you know, it was a pretty high level
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  Speaker 2: kind of debate between Barbara Nicola, and people were pretty
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  Speaker 2: impressed with the ability of them to communicate and that
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  Speaker 2: sort of thing. And so I know there is a
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  Speaker 2: lot of desire, whether it's infrastructure or whatever, for a
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  Speaker 2: bit more bipartisan thinking so that we can stop flip
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  Speaker 2: flopping in these political political cycles and.
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  Speaker 1: Liam a bit more of a nuanced debate about a CDT.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean, I just think, you know, it's
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  Speaker 2: certainly a large percentage of the people in that room,
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  Speaker 2: which you wouldn't necessarily expect. It tends to come from
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  Speaker 2: the left the CGT, and that that's kind of a
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  Speaker 2: hindrance in a way because people are never quite sure
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  Speaker 2: whether it's tied up with wealth tax and all the
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  Speaker 2: rest of it. But the people, for the people in
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  Speaker 2: that room who like it. I was talking to tax
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  Speaker 2: you know, accountants, high level accountants and tax experts and things.
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  Speaker 2: It's really about broadening that tax spaces, as I mentioned,
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  Speaker 2: you know, so it's about you know, maybe we've got
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  Speaker 2: to get away from calling it a capital gains tax
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  Speaker 2: or whatever, but you know it's some some level we
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  Speaker 2: need to broaden it and people need to remember. And
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  Speaker 2: this was not something that the Prome Minister to make
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  Speaker 2: clear when he was responding to Antonio Watson today and said,
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  Speaker 2: the original Colen plan was tax revenue neutral, so it's
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  Speaker 2: not taking not meant to be taking more tax for
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  Speaker 2: the first instance, off New Zealanders, so you should actually
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  Speaker 2: be getting an income tax break if they're taking some
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  Speaker 2: tax off off the other end, at the at the
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  Speaker 2: wealthier end or at the possibly the older end. It
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  Speaker 2: does it does shift the demographic shape of the tax base,
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  Speaker 2: but that's really what's going to have to move.
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  Speaker 1: It's a version of the of the John Key tax switch.
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  Speaker 2: Well, that's right, and I talked to Bill English and
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  Speaker 2: last week or so that's up online right now, and
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  Speaker 2: he talks about that being one of the things he's
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  Speaker 2: most proud of achieving because it's a very difficult thing
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  Speaker 2: to do. It's a difficult argument to win, right, so.
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  Speaker 1: Revenue neutral. From the top of my head, it wasn't.
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  Speaker 2: I can't remember. But one of the things Bill English
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  Speaker 2: said is he was lucky to have a prime minister
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  Speaker 2: like John Key who could sell that argument, so they
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  Speaker 2: managed to get an unpopular policy through. I wonder whether
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  Speaker 2: as good as Barbara Edmonds is likely to be it
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  Speaker 2: actually building or writing a tax policy because he is
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  Speaker 2: a tax expert, where the labor has the leadership there
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  Speaker 2: to actually sell it at the moment, I don't think so.
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  Speaker 1: Hey, thanks Liam, I appreciate it. That's New Zealand Herald
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  Speaker 1: Business Editor at large, Liam Dan. You can hear that
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  Speaker 1: interview with the Bill English by subscribing to Money Talks,
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  Speaker 1: which is Liam's superb podcast. You can hear it on
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  Speaker 1: my Heart Radio as well. Twenty two past six