Latest / Stuff Mom Never Told You / SMNTY Classics: The Pretty One

Transcript

SMNTY Classics: The Pretty One · Stuff Mom Never Told You

0:05
Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.
0:06
Speaker 2: I'm not come to step I'll Never Tell You're production
0:08
Speaker 2: by Heart Radio and welcome to another classic. I don't
0:22
Speaker 2: know if people still do this, but I remember when
0:24
Speaker 2: I was a kid, it was a big summer reading
0:28
Speaker 2: like you wanted your summer reading.
0:29
Speaker 3: List type thing.
0:31
Speaker 2: So I wanted to bring back this book club The
0:34
Speaker 2: Pretty One, because it really stuck with me when we
0:38
Speaker 2: read it, and also July is a disability Pride months.
0:41
Speaker 2: But I find myself thinking about this book a lot,
0:43
Speaker 2: and it's just it's really delightful. It's a really good
0:47
Speaker 2: It's a really good book. So I recommend it if
0:49
Speaker 2: you didn't read it after that episode, if you somehow
0:53
Speaker 2: missed that one, if you're looking for something to add
0:55
Speaker 2: to your summer book reading list, and please write in
0:57
Speaker 2: and tell me if that's still a thing, suggests this one,
1:01
Speaker 2: so please enjoy. Hey, this is Anny and Samantha and
1:09
Speaker 2: welcome to stefan Never Told You production of iHeartRadio. It's
1:21
Speaker 2: time for another book club, and today we're discussing Kia
1:25
Speaker 2: Brown's The Pretty One on life, pop culture, disability, and
1:29
Speaker 2: other reasons to fall in love with me. Keith Brown
1:32
Speaker 2: is a disability activist and is also behind the viral
1:34
Speaker 2: hashtag disabled and Cute. The book is a series of
1:38
Speaker 2: essays on various topics, ranging from chairs to jealousy to ponytails,
1:42
Speaker 2: to music, to friendships to love, all through the lens
1:45
Speaker 2: of a black woman with a disability. And she's very
1:47
Speaker 2: very open about her anxiety, depression, disordered, eating, suicidal thoughts
1:52
Speaker 2: and that being said, because that's kind of a laundry
1:54
Speaker 2: list of like upsetting topics at the.
1:56
Speaker 3: End that I put in there, But it is immediately delightful.
2:00
Speaker 2: I was drawn in from like the forward. Oh, this
2:04
Speaker 2: sounds like a really fun person who's just right and
2:09
Speaker 2: interesting and lovely and delightful. She opens up about her
2:13
Speaker 2: love of pop culture, of music and TV and books.
2:16
Speaker 2: That's something that returns throughout, which is also something that
2:20
Speaker 2: we can relate to. The whole book is brimming with
2:25
Speaker 2: pop culture references, some of which we'll be talking about later. Yeah,
2:29
Speaker 2: it's often very infectiously joyous. This book definitely does not
2:32
Speaker 2: shy away from difficult topics at all. But I just
2:36
Speaker 2: found myself just kind of feeling this bubbling happiness a
2:40
Speaker 2: lot while I was reading it.
2:42
Speaker 1: Right, I just love her honesty and all of it,
2:45
Speaker 1: as well as the fact that she does do a
2:47
Speaker 1: lot of the pop culture references that I know very well,
2:50
Speaker 1: Like she immediately talked about Cinderella, Brandy's Jella, and I
2:54
Speaker 1: was so excited. I'm like, yes, I get what you're
2:57
Speaker 1: coming from. This is the as it should be. And
3:02
Speaker 1: I absolutely feel like, yes, these are the reasons she lists,
3:06
Speaker 1: and just her personality alone that comes off of the
3:08
Speaker 1: book reasons to fall in love with her, And I'm like,
3:10
Speaker 1: can we be friends? I want to be your friend,
3:14
Speaker 1: but it's okay because you got lots of friends. But
3:17
Speaker 1: just go ahead and start off with a quote from
3:20
Speaker 1: the book. I never thought anyone would want to hear
3:22
Speaker 1: what I had to say until I started telling stories
3:26
Speaker 1: and talking about the things and people that matter to me.
3:29
Speaker 1: The truth is this, I've always felt average, plain and wrong.
3:33
Speaker 1: But there's nothing average, playing or wrong about me. And
3:36
Speaker 1: it took me only half my life so far to
3:38
Speaker 1: figure that out. I wrote an entire book and you
3:42
Speaker 1: are giving up to read it. How cool?
3:44
Speaker 2: Is that?
3:45
Speaker 1: So cool? Sometimes it is beautiful to prove yourself wrong.
3:49
Speaker 1: Oh love that?
3:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that captures so much of what this book
3:54
Speaker 2: is and I do legitimately feel like that is beautiful.
3:58
Speaker 2: And I think a lot of as especially anybody from
4:01
Speaker 2: any type of marginalized community, can relate to that feeling
4:03
Speaker 2: of like I don't have anything interesting to say, or I'm.
4:06
Speaker 3: Just average, or I'm just plain, or what have you.
4:11
Speaker 3: And when you unlearn.
4:13
Speaker 2: That and start to see the good things in you,
4:15
Speaker 2: which is a really difficult work and can be exhausting,
4:20
Speaker 2: I think that's really powerful, and that is at the
4:23
Speaker 2: heart of a lot of this book, and speaking of
4:28
Speaker 2: like when it comes to themes, one of the main
4:30
Speaker 2: ones is this theme of self acceptance and Kia Brown
4:35
Speaker 2: finding this self acceptance the road, walks along the way,
4:40
Speaker 2: the obstacles, and then the beauty of it, like all
4:44
Speaker 2: the things she's discovered about herself that she loves. And
4:48
Speaker 2: I think that's really it's nice too. It's refreshing as
4:52
Speaker 2: someone who's been thinking a lot, and I bet a
4:54
Speaker 2: lot of us have.
4:56
Speaker 3: My negative self talk is off the chain.
4:59
Speaker 2: Like sometimes I shocked that I would even think that
5:02
Speaker 2: about myself.
5:04
Speaker 1: WHOA right?
5:06
Speaker 2: And I know for a while growing up, and we've
5:10
Speaker 2: talked about this in past book clubs. Actually for whenning
5:12
Speaker 2: a lot of what we would hold up as laudable
5:16
Speaker 2: or this is a good trait is like selflessness or
5:20
Speaker 2: being humble and all these things. I thought it was
5:23
Speaker 2: really refreshing to hear someone be like, you know what,
5:25
Speaker 2: I love this about myself.
5:26
Speaker 3: This is great about myself. Right. There was no part
5:29
Speaker 3: of me that was like, she's bragging. I wish she
5:31
Speaker 3: was top. It was just like nice.
5:33
Speaker 1: It was nice and it was genuine. I think it's
5:36
Speaker 1: one of those things that's rare that you hear so
5:40
Speaker 1: many people trying to convince themselves yes, that's how they feel,
5:44
Speaker 1: and over to the point that it's overcompensating to this
5:47
Speaker 1: was weird, this is not I'm not sure I truly
5:49
Speaker 1: believe this. And she's gotten to a point which most
5:52
Speaker 1: people never get to and being able to really be
5:55
Speaker 1: genuinely and say this is what I'm proud of and
5:57
Speaker 1: this is who I am, and it's still I'm still
5:59
Speaker 1: got a lot to learn, but this is what I
6:01
Speaker 1: do know that I love about myself. And that's a
6:04
Speaker 1: beautiful refreshing thing to see, as well as a place
6:07
Speaker 1: where for the longest time she feared herself and she
6:10
Speaker 1: even talks about it in aspects of different people's perspective,
6:13
Speaker 1: as in, like she's talking about her sister, learning that
6:16
Speaker 1: for herself as well, And I found that really nice
6:19
Speaker 1: to see, like she does spread that beyond because, as
6:21
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about later, her relationship with our
6:23
Speaker 1: sister is complicated. Yeah, but beautiful and not so uncommon.
6:28
Speaker 1: I found that very interesting as well.
6:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, so here's another quote.
6:34
Speaker 2: My point is that I do all these things in
6:36
Speaker 2: a disabled body, not because I am brave or bold,
6:38
Speaker 2: but because I like doing them and I would love
6:40
Speaker 2: doing them in anybody.
6:41
Speaker 3: I adapt to the world because I have to do
6:43
Speaker 3: so in order to live.
6:45
Speaker 2: My disability is to reebral palsy, and it affects the
6:48
Speaker 2: right side of my body, effectively altering my motor skills
6:51
Speaker 2: and reaction time, as well as the strength of my
6:52
Speaker 2: bones on that side. I don't do things in spite
6:55
Speaker 2: of anything, except for maybe the people who told me
6:58
Speaker 2: I'd be nothing. And no, one don't mind being an
7:01
Speaker 2: inspiration if it is for a valid reason, such as
7:03
Speaker 2: admiring how many slices of pizza I ate, an essay
7:06
Speaker 2: or an article I wrote, my clothing choices, or how
7:08
Speaker 2: quickly I can learn the lyrics to a song as
7:11
Speaker 2: long as the inspiration doesn't come with pity or self
7:13
Speaker 2: congratulatory pats on the back.
7:15
Speaker 3: I am all for it.
7:16
Speaker 2: Let my love of cheesecake inspire you the way it
7:18
Speaker 2: will one day inspire a nation.
7:21
Speaker 1: Look, car Lipsick game is on point. I see her
7:25
Speaker 1: on Twitter whenever she posts the pictures. I'm like, Yeah,
7:28
Speaker 1: that color is amazing. How did you find this color
7:31
Speaker 1: and give me it?
7:32
Speaker 3: Yes? And I think this, all of this was so.
7:38
Speaker 2: Well written because we're going to talk about in a minute,
7:43
Speaker 2: ableism and how that's impacted like all of us, but
7:46
Speaker 2: in this case Kia Brown and having people kind of
7:51
Speaker 2: using you for inspiration porn right, And I feel like
7:55
Speaker 2: that is something that we see a lot in entertainment.
8:00
Speaker 1: And we see it a lot more for philanthropy. They
8:06
Speaker 1: want to say they're giving, and so they're videotaping themselves
8:10
Speaker 1: giving money to the homeown, They're videotaping themselves doing these
8:13
Speaker 1: things that it's to me, the most irksome thing that
8:18
Speaker 1: I think I've seen in a long time. And really
8:20
Speaker 1: having people going and God, bless you, you did such
8:22
Speaker 1: a great thing. You're such an amazing person for recognizing this,
8:26
Speaker 1: and it's kind of gross to that, Yeah, you are
8:29
Speaker 1: absolutely dismissing that other person as I miss a dog
8:32
Speaker 1: needing to be rescued. Like there's this whole level of
8:36
Speaker 1: inhumane tactics that get mistaken for philanthropy, and I don't
8:43
Speaker 1: quite get it. It makes me really uncomfortable. Again, maybe
8:46
Speaker 1: it's just been in the world where people who are
8:50
Speaker 1: going through things like this often don't realize that is
8:55
Speaker 1: seen as a negative thing. So kind of that same
8:57
Speaker 1: route of like this has been my life. Are you
9:00
Speaker 1: pitying me? This is weird as well as to them
9:03
Speaker 1: it is a barrier, but it's not a barrier something
9:05
Speaker 1: that's just the part of who they are. And why
9:08
Speaker 1: are you commenting on it, and why are you feeling
9:10
Speaker 1: sorry for me? And or why are you berating me
9:13
Speaker 1: for it? It's kind of just again like I don't
9:16
Speaker 1: quite get it, but I mean she doesn't talk about
9:19
Speaker 1: that level, but it's that level of like that pity.
9:22
Speaker 1: Same thing with like the healing and the regular which
9:26
Speaker 1: I know we're going to talk about more, and the
9:27
Speaker 1: religious aspect of it all. It's really like unfortunate that
9:31
Speaker 1: that's one more added thing that whether if you truly
9:36
Speaker 1: believe they're hurdles so that people are having to do
9:39
Speaker 1: that you do not have to. That's amazing. Why are
9:41
Speaker 1: you making it more difficult by bringing this onslaught of
9:46
Speaker 1: randomness and attention that they don't necessarily want nor need.
9:50
Speaker 2: I know, people feel really comfortable approaching others about especially
9:56
Speaker 2: in this case like disability, but also I mean we've
9:59
Speaker 2: talked about before withd weight like people. Yeah, I feel
10:02
Speaker 2: like they can just come up and.
10:05
Speaker 3: Give people advice or right, just like you wouldn't do.
10:09
Speaker 1: They say they need to be saved and that they
10:12
Speaker 1: are doing something that's going to be heroic, and you're
10:14
Speaker 1: kind of just like, that's not my whole concept of
10:18
Speaker 1: white savior thing. And this is kind of this is
10:20
Speaker 1: not necessarily about race at all, but in general just
10:23
Speaker 1: that of overall, I have to rescue them, but they
10:26
Speaker 1: don't think they need to be rescued. So what are
10:28
Speaker 1: you doing? What is it's called if you're doing it
10:31
Speaker 1: to gratify your own conscience? Yeah, and or your own ego? Right,
10:38
Speaker 1: but yeah, I really am glad to say she actually
10:40
Speaker 1: addresses that in such a great way. But moving on
10:43
Speaker 1: to the different quote, my disability is not a thing
10:45
Speaker 1: to see past, but instead a thing, take knowledge and
10:48
Speaker 1: except before able bodied people and I continue existing at
10:52
Speaker 1: the same time in this world. I have both physical
10:55
Speaker 1: and invisible disabilities, and I refuse to be ashamed of
10:58
Speaker 1: them because they are beautiful and their uniqueness and their
11:01
Speaker 1: familiarity their mind. But they also belong to a world
11:04
Speaker 1: of others and that makes them worthy of my appreciation
11:08
Speaker 1: and acceptance. And yeah, I think she does a great
11:10
Speaker 1: job in talking about both of those things because she
11:13
Speaker 1: also wants to acknowledge invisible disability, which has been a
11:17
Speaker 1: thing for a long time and not recognized enough, to
11:20
Speaker 1: the point that we've seen people harass people for parking
11:24
Speaker 1: in handicaps blocks because they don't see a physical disability
11:28
Speaker 1: and you're like, Oh, you don't know what's going on.
11:30
Speaker 1: Calm down, this is not about you.
11:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, And you can see past episode Eves did on
11:37
Speaker 2: Spinty before female first she came out and talked about
11:40
Speaker 2: invisible disabilities.
11:42
Speaker 3: It was great and it was really eye opening for
11:43
Speaker 3: me and I was like, oh, wait, I have whoa
11:50
Speaker 3: because Dad, we don't talk about it enough. And I
11:52
Speaker 3: think this is another thing that we do.
12:00
Speaker 1: I have.
12:00
Speaker 2: I guess I won't speak for a lot of people,
12:02
Speaker 2: but I have internalized from media. I've consumed a lot
12:04
Speaker 2: of like feeling ashamed of your body if it's not
12:09
Speaker 2: if it doesn't work in the quote normal way, in whatever.
12:11
Speaker 3: Way that is. And it's only recently.
12:14
Speaker 2: And I remember I told you, like, I have these
12:17
Speaker 2: kind of runners bumps on my feet and I used
12:22
Speaker 2: to hate them and I thought they were so ugly,
12:23
Speaker 2: and I'm like, you know what, that's a part of me,
12:26
Speaker 2: and it is something that I earned or like, I
12:31
Speaker 2: don't know, it's not the same as what she's talking
12:33
Speaker 2: about exactly, but kind of taking those things where you
12:37
Speaker 2: people might perceive them one way, but learning to appreciate
12:40
Speaker 2: them and they are a piece of what makes you
12:43
Speaker 2: you and what makes you unique. So she also writes
13:02
Speaker 2: this quote, I love I am a black woman with
13:04
Speaker 2: cerebral PALSI who loves herself, and most days that feels
13:07
Speaker 2: like a revolutionary act. It took a lot of work
13:09
Speaker 2: to get to this place, a fountain of tears, grief
13:11
Speaker 2: and loss, but I'm here and is beautiful. And I
13:14
Speaker 2: want to include that one because I think we've talked
13:16
Speaker 2: about that before, where Bridget used the phrase once, I'd
13:21
Speaker 2: never heard anyone use it, but like radical self love
13:24
Speaker 2: and like we were talking about, it can be so
13:27
Speaker 2: difficult to love yourself, especially outside of like the white
13:34
Speaker 2: cis male, when they's just like factors, all these intersecting
13:38
Speaker 2: factors against you, against you, and heavy quotes in society
13:41
Speaker 2: of like society doesn't seem to love you right or
13:47
Speaker 2: value you for whatever reason, and that can be really
13:50
Speaker 2: difficult to do that yourself in the face of that.
13:54
Speaker 2: So I just really again, I really appreciated that, and
13:56
Speaker 2: I do.
13:59
Speaker 3: Think that it's hard but beautiful. You can yep.
14:05
Speaker 2: Yeah, she goes on to right, I refuse to be
14:07
Speaker 2: a reminder of someone's worst case scenario. Again, if you
14:09
Speaker 2: need me to be a reminder, I will be a
14:11
Speaker 2: reminder that things will get better. I will be a
14:13
Speaker 2: reminder that people like me exist and thrive, and that
14:15
Speaker 2: we aren't going anywhere long. Gun are the days of
14:18
Speaker 2: silence and complacency. I will see and be seen. I
14:21
Speaker 2: no longer care about the comfort of those who would
14:24
Speaker 2: rather be quiet or wait my turn for proper and
14:27
Speaker 2: positive representation in our culture and mainstream media. Disabled people
14:31
Speaker 2: are at once invisible and a burden. And yeah, I
14:35
Speaker 2: think she explains that and writes about that in her
14:38
Speaker 2: experience with people feeling uncomfortable and feeling like like maybe
14:45
Speaker 2: that's the reason they come up and give you on
14:48
Speaker 2: solicited advice or whoever.
14:50
Speaker 3: It is, like.
14:50
Speaker 2: Their comfort is more important than you just being existing
14:54
Speaker 2: and being left alone, which is something that we do see.
14:58
Speaker 2: But at the same time kind of the yeah, being
15:03
Speaker 2: invisible in a society that where you still fight for
15:09
Speaker 2: access and ada. And there were a lot of things
15:15
Speaker 2: she wrote about that I kind of were eye opening
15:19
Speaker 2: for me of like, wow, I really do take that
15:21
Speaker 2: for granted, like doing my hair like in a ponytail,
15:25
Speaker 2: or not having to worry so much about a chair
15:29
Speaker 2: situation or things like that. I just love the way
15:33
Speaker 2: she wrote about them, but it can be a good
15:35
Speaker 2: way to describe it, especially in what I've seen in
15:39
Speaker 2: media of like the invisible and a burden right.
15:42
Speaker 1: Which is not great, which I actually had been a
15:46
Speaker 1: thing of controversy because recently an article was written in
15:49
Speaker 1: the perspective of the caregiver and about them not being paid.
15:53
Speaker 1: And although the article I think was implying that it
15:57
Speaker 1: needed help and more assistance and we should think about
16:00
Speaker 1: the caregivers as being professional and paying them as such,
16:04
Speaker 1: but it came off really ablest and dismissing the disabled
16:09
Speaker 1: partner and being like, hey, you're really talking about us
16:11
Speaker 1: as if we're burdens, as if we're not existing, You're
16:13
Speaker 1: acting as we're infants. And it was really like, oh, yeah,
16:18
Speaker 1: this is really bad and something needs to change, because
16:22
Speaker 1: this is someone who thought she was helping but instead
16:25
Speaker 1: just came on with more ablest tone. And again, this
16:28
Speaker 1: is kind of that whole level of like, this is
16:30
Speaker 1: the worst case scenario. This is where you're telling me
16:32
Speaker 1: I'm a burden and I've already felt like that my
16:35
Speaker 1: entire life. Thank you for once again again invalidating my
16:40
Speaker 1: existence when I have fought hard to get to disappoint.
16:44
Speaker 1: And yeah, I feel like there was so much like
16:46
Speaker 1: oh God, please stop doing this. We have to do
16:49
Speaker 1: better as advocates and allies. We have to do better
16:52
Speaker 1: in keeping ourselves accountable and understanding the language that pity
16:56
Speaker 1: language is damaging in every damn way. And again, this
17:00
Speaker 1: whole heroism thing that I don't quite understand. I can't
17:05
Speaker 1: let go of it, and I'll probably especially when we
17:06
Speaker 1: talk about religion, can't get past this whole level of
17:11
Speaker 1: like this is my philanthropy. Pat me on the back. Look,
17:14
Speaker 1: I'm caring for someone who is disabled, aren't I the
17:16
Speaker 1: bigger person? You're kind of like, no, what is wrong
17:19
Speaker 1: with you? This is gross, Like, don't do it. If
17:23
Speaker 1: this is your attitude, just please don't. I have a
17:25
Speaker 1: feeling that the individuals who are under your care would
17:28
Speaker 1: rather you be here because you love them and don't
17:30
Speaker 1: see them but as a burden than trying to create
17:33
Speaker 1: a narrative as if you were the hero.
17:36
Speaker 3: Yeah.
17:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, like using other people to make yourself feel better.
17:42
Speaker 1: It's a weird white Knight thing that assists. Yeah, but again,
17:46
Speaker 1: like this kind of reminded me of that. I like
17:48
Speaker 1: this is what she's talking about and seeing as a burden,
17:52
Speaker 1: Like we need to change. But yeah, as this was written,
17:55
Speaker 1: this is a couple of years ago, and I really
17:59
Speaker 1: hate that we're still here, Like I think we finally
18:03
Speaker 1: Maybe it's just because we are recognizing it because of
18:05
Speaker 1: what we do, but there are so many who continue
18:08
Speaker 1: to say the same. And by the way, some of
18:09
Speaker 1: the biggest advocates for disability for those of who are
18:13
Speaker 1: disabled are disabled people, Like they are the biggest and
18:16
Speaker 1: the loudest voices we should be listening, but have been
18:18
Speaker 1: doing the work to begin with. So let's not forget that. Yes, okay, yes,
18:23
Speaker 1: done with rant.
18:25
Speaker 3: Oh I don't know about that, because.
18:28
Speaker 2: We're moving into some discussion around ableism, some more discussion
18:33
Speaker 2: around ableism, because you know, as I said, self acceptance
18:37
Speaker 2: is a lot of the heart of this book.
18:38
Speaker 3: But the flip.
18:40
Speaker 2: Side of that is the years of self hatred and
18:45
Speaker 2: all of the obstacles that were in the way for
18:49
Speaker 2: Kea Brown to arrive at this point. And it did
18:52
Speaker 2: take her several several years and a lot of hard work,
18:55
Speaker 2: and yeah, a big part of that was able as
19:00
Speaker 2: some of it internalized and she talked about in her family.
19:05
Speaker 2: I think she did a really good job talking about
19:06
Speaker 2: the pros and cons of this. But in her family
19:09
Speaker 2: they never really brought up her disability.
19:13
Speaker 3: It wasn't really a thing. I wasn't really discussed.
19:16
Speaker 2: And when she was made fun of by a kid
19:21
Speaker 2: from school at a pretty young age, that was like
19:25
Speaker 2: her first time of thinking, oh, there's something heavy quotes wrong,
19:30
Speaker 2: are different about me right, and that people are making
19:34
Speaker 2: fun of it. And I mean, it wasn't funny, but
19:38
Speaker 2: I feel like we all do this, where like she
19:40
Speaker 2: remembers that kid's name, right.
19:41
Speaker 1: I thought the same, Yeah, And she was like.
19:43
Speaker 3: He probably never you know, doesn't know my name, maybe
19:46
Speaker 3: never thinks about it.
19:47
Speaker 2: Maybe he's a great person now, but like, this event
19:51
Speaker 2: was huge for me and I feel like I have
19:53
Speaker 2: kids like that from by fast to where I'm like.
19:55
Speaker 3: Right, I can't forget your name.
19:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks, so and so you did, and it is
20:00
Speaker 1: it was a kind of fun shade like she also
20:02
Speaker 1: recognizes he was a child, perhaps he's changed, but she's
20:06
Speaker 1: not gonna let go of the fact that you are
20:08
Speaker 1: the reason that I started doubting myself and not understanding
20:12
Speaker 1: how it was different until you brought that point out. Yeah.
20:16
Speaker 1: She did talk about the family dynamic. And I can
20:19
Speaker 1: understand to a certain degree of the insulation of being
20:22
Speaker 1: told you fit in, you fit in, you fit in
20:25
Speaker 1: your part of us, and it being true because that's
20:28
Speaker 1: what I felt, and then going outside of that world
20:30
Speaker 1: realizing no, this is not true, this is not true.
20:33
Speaker 1: I'm very much in other and these strangers have pointed
20:37
Speaker 1: it out to me a lot, and there's nothing I
20:41
Speaker 1: can deny about that. And I wasn't prepared, but at
20:45
Speaker 1: the same time, I was loved because I was being
20:47
Speaker 1: so protected that it is that variability that is both
20:52
Speaker 1: good and bad. And of course if I was a parent,
20:55
Speaker 1: I wouldn't know, I wouldn't know what to do, and
20:57
Speaker 1: I would want the same level of protection in that too,
21:03
Speaker 1: But there is that pros and cons of it all
21:06
Speaker 1: meeting insulated. Of course, you know, she's able to say
21:08
Speaker 1: I had loving family who was there to do that
21:12
Speaker 1: for me. But the problem is when I came out
21:16
Speaker 1: of that and was faced with that, I wasn't prepared
21:21
Speaker 1: to handle that at that point in time or knew
21:23
Speaker 1: how to handle that completely. And yeah, there was a
21:25
Speaker 1: whole level again, school is cruel and for those who
21:30
Speaker 1: are marginalized even more so. And she definitely talks about
21:34
Speaker 1: the privilege she did have because she had a supportive family,
21:38
Speaker 1: but the fact that she did not have that white privilege,
21:41
Speaker 1: she did not have the ablest privilege like all of
21:43
Speaker 1: those things. She didn't have the gender privilege. There are
21:46
Speaker 1: those things that was a shock and you have to
21:51
Speaker 1: work through and no one can really do it for you.
21:54
Speaker 1: And that protection at least gives her, and it did
21:59
Speaker 1: for myself some level of ground to be like, but
22:03
Speaker 1: that's not the truth that can't be right because of this,
22:08
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's the whole thing for sure. And she
22:11
Speaker 1: also writes it's something that helped me because you and
22:14
Speaker 1: I have been struggling with this for a minute on
22:16
Speaker 1: this show in general. But she writes, I am a
22:18
Speaker 1: black disabled woman. I am not handy, capable, differently abled,
22:22
Speaker 1: special needs, or any other iteration of disabled that says
22:25
Speaker 1: anything but the word disabled. When I say as much,
22:29
Speaker 1: I'm speaking for myself and myself alone. My thoughts on
22:32
Speaker 1: the matter are not the case for every person with
22:35
Speaker 1: disabilities because we are not monolithic. Some people like or
22:39
Speaker 1: use the terms above, but I do not. What I'm
22:41
Speaker 1: about to say might make some of you uncomfortable, but
22:45
Speaker 1: discomfort is imperative here. Discomfort has made a lot of
22:49
Speaker 1: things better in the long run. When I stopped caring
22:52
Speaker 1: about the comfort of abled body people with regard to
22:55
Speaker 1: language it used about my disability, I felt free for
22:58
Speaker 1: the first time in my life. You see, these other
23:02
Speaker 1: synonyms for disability were created because the word disabled often
23:06
Speaker 1: makes able bodied people more uncomfortable than it makes those
23:09
Speaker 1: of us with disabilities. And I think that was huge
23:12
Speaker 1: because you and I have gone back and forth any Okay,
23:15
Speaker 1: we want to highlight and bring out, especially with our
23:19
Speaker 1: women around the world who are strong advocates and fighters,
23:22
Speaker 1: and recognize these people who have done so many amazing
23:26
Speaker 1: things in making change, whether it's in the un whether
23:30
Speaker 1: it's in the US, whether it's like just in cultural altogether.
23:34
Speaker 1: And I think it's so important that we do talk
23:36
Speaker 1: about these things. But as able to body people, we
23:40
Speaker 1: are very very wary of the connotations of language. Yes,
23:46
Speaker 1: and again she says this for herself, so disabled for
23:50
Speaker 1: her is fine, and we will absolutely recognize anyone who
23:55
Speaker 1: says otherwise and says, please say this instead, then we
24:00
Speaker 1: would definitely recognize it. But it is you have to
24:02
Speaker 1: remember language is important and why it is. And again
24:07
Speaker 1: you have to also figure out for yourself why you
24:08
Speaker 1: are uncomfortable, and if you are the ally and not
24:11
Speaker 1: the disabled individual, don't just rely on yourself listen. We
24:16
Speaker 1: have to listen. That's the other part to that. And
24:19
Speaker 1: I also love that she does talk about that for
24:21
Speaker 1: her when she hears people saying things like handy capable,
24:25
Speaker 1: it's typically those who are caretakers who say that, right,
24:28
Speaker 1: and not the individuals, because again they are uncomfortable or
24:33
Speaker 1: they feel like it's a failure to say otherwise. So
24:37
Speaker 1: we have to recognize we need to talk to the source,
24:39
Speaker 1: research the source, make sure we understand they are coming
24:42
Speaker 1: from such ugh language in itself is so important.
24:46
Speaker 2: Yes, I love that to you because we have been
24:49
Speaker 2: discussing that, and we never want to not talk about
24:52
Speaker 2: something because we're too afraid to use the incorrect language.
24:56
Speaker 2: But we do want to get it right and we
24:58
Speaker 2: want to like not.
24:58
Speaker 3: Be offensive and be up to date.
25:00
Speaker 2: But I just really appreciated this, And I remember back
25:04
Speaker 2: when Eves came on and we did that episode, she
25:07
Speaker 2: was talking about, Yeah, there's you know, debate in the
25:10
Speaker 2: community about which term is a better term or which
25:13
Speaker 2: way is better, and that debate is healthy and ongoing. Right, Yeah,
25:18
Speaker 2: so that's good to know. I did like reading this.
25:22
Speaker 2: It does remind me of what we were talking about
25:24
Speaker 2: earlier of yeah, kind of the inspiration porn aspects, and
25:29
Speaker 2: we see this a lot where it is usually not
25:34
Speaker 2: the the community in question using the term unless it's
25:39
Speaker 2: somebody trying to make money. But that's I'm thinking more
25:41
Speaker 2: widely of Like when we had Amandage, she was talking
25:46
Speaker 2: about like entrepreneur. You know, these kind of words that
25:52
Speaker 2: are usually, in this case you used to sell something, right.
25:55
Speaker 2: I feel like there's also an aspect of that discomfort
26:00
Speaker 2: and trying to for the person using that term.
26:04
Speaker 3: And these are generalizations.
26:05
Speaker 2: Can't speak for everybody who uses handy capable, for instance,
26:09
Speaker 2: but it feels like a lot of times it is
26:12
Speaker 2: someone who is has their own It's not internalized, but
26:20
Speaker 2: I mean no, like they feel they do think something
26:22
Speaker 2: is wrong, or like you are the worst case scenario
26:26
Speaker 2: and they're trying to like build you up. They think
26:29
Speaker 2: you're doing they're doing you a favor by using this terminology. Yeah,
26:34
Speaker 2: I feel like we see similar conversations happening in a
26:36
Speaker 2: lot of communities. The language is very, very very important.
26:40
Speaker 2: So yeah, I was really happy that that was in
26:43
Speaker 2: there too. Here's another quote. What I didn't know earlier,
26:47
Speaker 2: but I'm grateful that I know now is that my
26:49
Speaker 2: cerebral quality is an integral part of who I am
26:51
Speaker 2: and how I navigate the world. And my refusal to
26:54
Speaker 2: acknowledge this, I was denying the world and myself a
26:56
Speaker 2: glimpse of who I really am. All that time waste
27:00
Speaker 2: hiding away when I could have embraced my girl CP
27:02
Speaker 2: and the word disabled and found unapologetic happiness sooner. I
27:06
Speaker 2: was embarrassed a disability, of being disabled and of other
27:09
Speaker 2: disabled people. My thought processes were that if able bodied
27:12
Speaker 2: people discussed my disability, then they would see me as inferior.
27:15
Speaker 2: And I already saw myself as inferior. I didn't want
27:19
Speaker 2: them to as well. I would rather have been ignored
27:22
Speaker 2: than pitied. But I was never ignored, not then or now.
27:25
Speaker 2: The only thing that has changed is the way I
27:27
Speaker 2: feel about myself. Pity was my greatest fear and my
27:30
Speaker 2: biggest foe, and now I can confidently say that I
27:33
Speaker 2: do not care about it because I know how I
27:35
Speaker 2: feel about myself, and that accompasses a lot in that
27:40
Speaker 2: one quote, but also in the book and the struggle
27:44
Speaker 2: with especially when she was younger, of feeling this self
27:47
Speaker 2: hatred and shame around it and just like wishing she
27:51
Speaker 2: didn't have cerebral palsy. And that's something else that she
27:55
Speaker 2: does that I love. But she talks about cerebral palsy
27:57
Speaker 2: like it's a character, like a person, girl CP, and
28:01
Speaker 2: she's open about like, you know, some days she's a
28:03
Speaker 2: real bitch, and I hater, like there's no reason for
28:07
Speaker 2: why this is happening. I can't figure it out, but
28:10
Speaker 2: you know, other times it's like, yeah, this is part.
28:12
Speaker 3: Of me and it's made me who I am.
28:15
Speaker 2: And I think that's that was really nice too and
28:18
Speaker 2: really refreshing because it's it's like a relationship. It's like,
28:22
Speaker 2: you know, it changes some days. You got your writing downs,
28:26
Speaker 2: your ebbs and flows, and I think we can say
28:28
Speaker 2: that from most things.
28:29
Speaker 1: And I questioned too, Like for myself, there's many things
28:32
Speaker 1: that I don't like, and growing up in all white communities,
28:36
Speaker 1: really hated being an Asian, I really hated being brown,
28:39
Speaker 1: really hate my eyes, and even to this day, I
28:41
Speaker 1: don't necessarily love my identity, my ethnicity. Part of that
28:45
Speaker 1: is because I don't know it. Part of that is
28:47
Speaker 1: trying to discover that. But I think I'm in a
28:50
Speaker 1: healthier place because I don't necessarily love it, but I
28:53
Speaker 1: accept it and I accept my differences and just encompassing
28:57
Speaker 1: that in my life. So there's definitely a whole process
29:00
Speaker 1: us in acceptance and then moving on to love. And
29:03
Speaker 1: what that looks like for me is different, obviously, and
29:06
Speaker 1: this is a whole different level because obviously she has
29:10
Speaker 1: a lot of pain that I don't literal physical pain
29:13
Speaker 1: that she has to deal with and face every day.
29:17
Speaker 1: But it is an interesting concept of what it is
29:19
Speaker 1: to fall in love with something that is a difference
29:22
Speaker 1: than what is deemed as normal, which whatever that is. Yeah,
29:41
Speaker 1: And I've been kind of harping about it already and
29:44
Speaker 1: I'm ready to talk about it now. Is that whole
29:47
Speaker 1: idea of like unsmillicited advice and this whole that whole
29:53
Speaker 1: thing like of cures, whether it's prayer, yeah, and or
29:59
Speaker 1: marathons trying to re money and not that we don't
30:01
Speaker 1: necessarily think cures are bad. I definitely don't, but I
30:05
Speaker 1: think there's a whole level of when you talk about cures,
30:09
Speaker 1: thinking about something as an enemy, and so those people
30:11
Speaker 1: who are dealing with that in their life feeling that
30:14
Speaker 1: that means they are the enemy. So that's a whole
30:17
Speaker 1: lot of things. But here's another quote. A recent study
30:20
Speaker 1: found that a disabled person is killed once a week
30:23
Speaker 1: by a family member or other caregivers. There are fifty
30:27
Speaker 1: two weeks in a year, and a disabled human is
30:29
Speaker 1: murdered at least once every week, Yet there's hardly any
30:34
Speaker 1: coverage or outrage about it. These stories are often framed
30:38
Speaker 1: in two ways. The killers just couldn't take it anymore,
30:41
Speaker 1: finding the care taking too much for them to deal with,
30:45
Speaker 1: or they were just trying to set the disabled person
30:47
Speaker 1: free because their faith told them that their loved ones
30:51
Speaker 1: could be free of disability and death. And yeah, we
30:55
Speaker 1: have constantly seen this whole narrow and don't get me wrong,
31:02
Speaker 1: I think for those who again I kind of mentioned
31:06
Speaker 1: that story about the fact that caregivers were being highlighted
31:09
Speaker 1: as heroes and seeing as the disabled member of the
31:14
Speaker 1: family member being the burden. But this whole level that
31:19
Speaker 1: it is a death sentence in itself, is so tragic
31:25
Speaker 1: in so many ways, and I can't and we don't
31:30
Speaker 1: talk about this enough. We don't talk about this. We
31:32
Speaker 1: have talked about that, the fact that the statistics for
31:37
Speaker 1: abuse in those and the disabled communities are much higher,
31:41
Speaker 1: poverty level death rates, sexual abuse, sexual violence is higher
31:46
Speaker 1: than the abled community, and we really have to keep
31:50
Speaker 1: mentioning this conversation because nobody protects them and this absolutely
31:55
Speaker 1: is a horror. But the fact that there's no law
31:58
Speaker 1: that goes beyond the regular I guess, yeah statements, and
32:02
Speaker 1: that we already know it is hard to prove there's
32:06
Speaker 1: so many ways like this. This type of crimes against
32:09
Speaker 1: humanities are really hard to prove and it is a
32:12
Speaker 1: horrifying thing that we are not talking more of it.
32:16
Speaker 1: But yeah, also, this weird narrative because it's in books,
32:20
Speaker 1: because it's in movies that the caretakers who do these
32:24
Speaker 1: things are heroes and had to choose because they're suffering.
32:27
Speaker 1: And it's like, no, if it's not the disabled person's
32:30
Speaker 1: choice to, you know, say that they don't want you
32:33
Speaker 1: to revive them or something. Yeah, that's not that's not
32:38
Speaker 1: that's not what you're doing.
32:39
Speaker 2: Yeah, And we've been talking a lot about entertainment, as
32:43
Speaker 2: we said, that is key throughout this book. We're gonna
32:45
Speaker 2: talk about it more in a little bit. But that's
32:47
Speaker 2: something I don't think we've ever We've touched on, like
32:51
Speaker 2: tangentially a lot, but I don't think we've ever directly discussed.
32:54
Speaker 2: But that's as you know, we love horror. I love
32:57
Speaker 2: horror movies, but that's a big problem in horror movies.
32:59
Speaker 2: I feel like, is someone with a disability, whether it's
33:03
Speaker 2: invisible or not, is in one way or the other
33:07
Speaker 2: the villain or something is wrong with them, or in
33:15
Speaker 2: some cases this kind of thing happens where somebody will
33:19
Speaker 2: kill the disabled person to start off the plot, which is.
33:24
Speaker 3: Not great either.
33:26
Speaker 2: That's like what we talk about when we're talking about
33:28
Speaker 2: fringing of women or the barrier gage trope.
33:31
Speaker 3: It's the same kind of thing.
33:33
Speaker 2: But yeah, a lot of the when she was talking
33:36
Speaker 2: about entertainment, there was a whole chapter kind of devoted
33:38
Speaker 2: to representation in entertainment. That's one of the things that
33:41
Speaker 2: kept coming back to me is like all of these
33:44
Speaker 2: examples I.
33:44
Speaker 3: Had of she was she was good.
33:46
Speaker 2: She pointed out a lot of times it's like sad,
33:49
Speaker 2: usually white men hating themselves and wanting to be cured,
33:53
Speaker 2: right or yeah, the villain. But I have seen this.
33:56
Speaker 2: I've seen this plot line as well for sure.
33:59
Speaker 1: Right. And she also talks about that there's not enough
34:02
Speaker 1: representation within any any I don't know if I've seen one. Yeah,
34:09
Speaker 1: I think the only closest one that I have is
34:12
Speaker 1: that in Glee, not the guy Kevin, I think that's
34:15
Speaker 1: his name. I forgot the character's name. He's in a wheelchair,
34:18
Speaker 1: but he's not actually disabled because he has a whole
34:20
Speaker 1: scene dancing. But they bring on a love interest who
34:24
Speaker 1: is and she is actually disabled. But even then and
34:26
Speaker 1: her character was fun because she got to be sassy
34:29
Speaker 1: and she got to be pretty much the thing, and
34:33
Speaker 1: she was. She was killing it with her style. But
34:35
Speaker 1: the whole level was like people pairing the two of
34:38
Speaker 1: them together since they are both in wheelchairs.
34:41
Speaker 3: Oh, and it's kind of like.
34:42
Speaker 1: Okay, see you're doing it again, even though you brought
34:44
Speaker 1: finally brought someone on who can be a representative because
34:47
Speaker 1: they actually are in a wheelchair and are disabled, you're
34:51
Speaker 1: pairing him up with the one and that's the only
34:53
Speaker 1: plot line you're giving her ry as where you have
34:56
Speaker 1: that other dude, Arnie I think it's his name. He
35:00
Speaker 1: is pretty much until towards the end of it, where
35:02
Speaker 1: he actually accepts it because of his parents, is trying
35:06
Speaker 1: to find a cure, and that's the whole point. That's
35:09
Speaker 1: the whole plot point, to the point that one of
35:11
Speaker 1: his girlfriends wishes it for Christmas and because he doesn't
35:13
Speaker 1: get it, she doesn't believe in Santa Claus like, it's
35:15
Speaker 1: just why that is very able us and we follow
35:20
Speaker 1: along with it thinking, oh, of course, this is what
35:23
Speaker 1: being disabled looks like, being sad all the time, and
35:26
Speaker 1: it's not it's not that case, and shame on us
35:29
Speaker 1: for thinking that.
35:30
Speaker 3: Yeah.
35:31
Speaker 2: Well, and she talks about that too, and it's like
35:34
Speaker 2: one of the other kind of frequent tropes is like
35:39
Speaker 2: the sad teenage movie where one of them has some
35:44
Speaker 2: illness or disability that will kill them in the end,
35:46
Speaker 2: or they decide that they rather die than go on, right.
35:49
Speaker 3: Which yeah, is I know exactly what she's talking about.
35:55
Speaker 2: It's very common troupe. And that's one of the reasons
35:58
Speaker 2: she wrote this book. And she was like, you know,
36:01
Speaker 2: we can have other things in tragedy. It's not just stragedy.
36:04
Speaker 2: And that's sort of we talked about that vaguely in
36:07
Speaker 2: like a Happy Hour forever ago, where I was saying,
36:10
Speaker 2: you know, if that's the only representation you have, and
36:13
Speaker 2: you know those sure, tragedy and sadness exists in like
36:17
Speaker 2: any community, but if that's all you see, then that's
36:19
Speaker 2: not accurate. That's not great representation. So she goes on,
36:25
Speaker 2: there's another quote. Disabled people do not need strangers or
36:27
Speaker 2: people we do not know telling us how we should
36:29
Speaker 2: try to fix our change our bodies, when we never
36:31
Speaker 2: said we had a problem with our bodies in the
36:34
Speaker 2: first place.
36:35
Speaker 3: We are not problems.
36:35
Speaker 2: We are people who deserve the same rights to life, liberty,
36:38
Speaker 2: and the pursuit of happiness as everyone else. The fight
36:40
Speaker 2: for change is not ours alone. We need to end
36:42
Speaker 2: the constant cure narratives ingrained and championed within our culture.
36:46
Speaker 2: We need to end the just kidding you were never
36:48
Speaker 2: sick narratives. The death means freedom from disability narratives and
36:52
Speaker 2: the idea that if the body is not one hundred
36:53
Speaker 2: percent able all of the time, it is to be
36:56
Speaker 2: pitied and dismissed while simultaneously being molded into something and
37:00
Speaker 2: never be which is great. There's so much in there
37:03
Speaker 2: that she expounds upon and in the book, But.
37:07
Speaker 3: Like she does, she points out which she shouldn't have to.
37:10
Speaker 2: But yeah, like you can have a disability for a
37:12
Speaker 2: short time, like so if you like break a leg
37:15
Speaker 2: or something, then suddenly that access will be very important
37:18
Speaker 2: to you, right right, And then it's not exactly the
37:22
Speaker 2: same thing.
37:23
Speaker 3: But when my dad was dying.
37:25
Speaker 2: I remember so many well meaning people, and I truly
37:28
Speaker 2: believe they were well meaning, but it did make them uncomfortable.
37:30
Speaker 3: They were talking to someone who's dying and in pain.
37:32
Speaker 2: They would say things like, you know, basically kind of religious.
37:37
Speaker 2: Usually just pray, you know, things will get better. If
37:41
Speaker 2: you do good, you'll get better, and it would just
37:44
Speaker 2: he would be so furious, like yeah, and he you know,
37:48
Speaker 2: people would come up and be like I've read the
37:49
Speaker 2: other day. If you go to Mexico and they have X,
37:52
Speaker 2: Y and Z, there's this cure for cancer. I kind
37:57
Speaker 2: of I get the knee jerk like impulse in this case.
38:01
Speaker 2: But you're you're essentially like implying that this person who's.
38:07
Speaker 3: Dying didn't look into those things.
38:09
Speaker 2: Or either was just like you were the one that
38:12
Speaker 2: had the answer, right and good luck with that.
38:15
Speaker 1: This is the most infuriating and I'm not gonna lie.
38:18
Speaker 1: One of the reasons I think I stopped being as
38:20
Speaker 1: religious as I was that that narrative in itself implied
38:24
Speaker 1: that God cared more for another than this one. So
38:28
Speaker 1: if you were cured, that means Jesus really loved you.
38:31
Speaker 1: If you're not cured, well that's Jesus's plan. That means
38:34
Speaker 1: you're probably going to hell, right that think, which is
38:37
Speaker 1: not all They would never say that, but that's the
38:39
Speaker 1: implication to me, and I could not grasp that concept,
38:44
Speaker 1: like do you really think you're that important. Yeah, that
38:48
Speaker 1: somehow a deity of billions of people thought you were
38:53
Speaker 1: special and therefore cured you. And not to dismiss those
38:57
Speaker 1: who may have gone through something they feel like it
38:59
Speaker 1: was miracle, wonderful, But the fact of the matter is
39:03
Speaker 1: that narrative does imply a hierarchy of those who are
39:07
Speaker 1: healed and those who are not, as well as those
39:09
Speaker 1: who are chosen and those who are not. And that
39:11
Speaker 1: woman who came up to her and said, I'm praying
39:13
Speaker 1: for a cure for you. You, That's what I would said.
39:17
Speaker 1: She was much nicer and apparently in shock, But in
39:19
Speaker 1: my mind, I was like, how dare you come at
39:22
Speaker 1: me implying that God doesn't love me if something doesn't happen.
39:26
Speaker 1: How dare you, especially she who is a religious woman
39:28
Speaker 1: and has finally, as she says in the book, come
39:31
Speaker 1: to have one of the best relationships in a long
39:33
Speaker 1: time in her religious beliefs, how dare you imply because
39:37
Speaker 1: it's not your standard, that perhaps God doesn't love me.
39:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, and she was a kid when this happened, by
39:43
Speaker 3: the way, Yeah.
39:43
Speaker 1: She was a teenager. And I was like, that is
39:46
Speaker 1: that alone for me would have been enough to turn
39:49
Speaker 1: around and spit on somebody like I think I would
39:51
Speaker 1: have been ready, because this narrative is damaging in so
39:54
Speaker 1: many ways, and you're damaging other people who truly needed
39:58
Speaker 1: Jesus or truly needed a dea, it truly needed a
40:01
Speaker 1: fate by implying if something doesn't happen, that something has
40:05
Speaker 1: gone wrong and you have done wrong, and that is
40:08
Speaker 1: probably obviously I feel very very strongly because I've seen
40:11
Speaker 1: it way too much. I've seen it in this industry.
40:14
Speaker 1: I've seen it in many industries where that is implied,
40:17
Speaker 1: especially in the US for US, especially in the South,
40:21
Speaker 1: where that is an implication of prayer, hills all and
40:25
Speaker 1: then coming back with well, that's not God's plan to
40:27
Speaker 1: all these things, and like you can't have one or
40:29
Speaker 1: the other like that. Don't sit here and imply you
40:32
Speaker 1: know God's plan by doing these things. Yeah, and then
40:36
Speaker 1: tell me, oh, just playing that wasn't God's plan, so
40:40
Speaker 1: you're wrong. No need to say it front. If you
40:44
Speaker 1: want to pray for someone, that's just kindness, that's great,
40:46
Speaker 1: Just do that, do that on your own. You don't
40:49
Speaker 1: have to do this, because that again puts those kind
40:55
Speaker 1: of connotations on someone else with expectations that may not
40:58
Speaker 1: be met, and how you you have killclone's spirit because
41:02
Speaker 1: of that. Again coming back to the fact that Kia
41:06
Speaker 1: Brown seems like a woman of faith and believes that,
41:09
Speaker 1: and it has come to a point that she loves herself,
41:12
Speaker 1: and so I'm glad that she did not have that
41:14
Speaker 1: for herselves who could have easily done so. But just
41:18
Speaker 1: as a reminder of what this is, this whole saviorism,
41:21
Speaker 1: this whole level of things that you're like, you can't
41:24
Speaker 1: You need to be careful. We all need to be
41:26
Speaker 1: careful when implying that you think someone's in a bad
41:29
Speaker 1: place because you feel like you could not handle it.
41:32
Speaker 1: I hate this. I hate this narrative in every aspect,
41:35
Speaker 1: just as someone who is a survivor of any type
41:38
Speaker 1: of abuse or victimization in general, to come and be like,
41:42
Speaker 1: I don't know how I could handle that situation. It's infuriating,
41:45
Speaker 1: as if I deserved it or was built to handle it. Right,
41:48
Speaker 1: don't say this, don't do this. This is out of bounds.
41:52
Speaker 1: This is ugly. It's ugly. As you want to bless someone,
41:55
Speaker 1: it's ugly. Don't do it. As again, you can tell
41:59
Speaker 1: them very very very passionate about this, and of course
42:02
Speaker 1: I'm trying to rain myself in and saying other curse
42:05
Speaker 1: words because I've gone through this way too many times,
42:07
Speaker 1: I think, and obviously you have too, between all the
42:10
Speaker 1: things that you grew up as a child and all
42:13
Speaker 1: the things with your father, there's too much in that
42:16
Speaker 1: that it's like you your good intentions, this is this
42:20
Speaker 1: is the road leading to hell, Like this is that
42:22
Speaker 1: part of it. And just because you may have one experience,
42:26
Speaker 1: or just because you think you know of an experience
42:28
Speaker 1: or you think you could undertanded experience, doesn't mean you
42:32
Speaker 1: have the right to speak, especially to strangers, especially to strangers.
42:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, it definitely clearly.
42:42
Speaker 2: We could go into this in depth, maybe in a
42:44
Speaker 2: future episode, but it definitely And for me, it feels
42:47
Speaker 2: like it is implying that you, at some time or
42:51
Speaker 2: the other, did something bad, did something to deserve it.
42:54
Speaker 2: And in this case, yea, I'm thinking my own experiences.
42:56
Speaker 2: But like said, there's a holier than now, Like no
42:59
Speaker 2: pun intended, but like I'm better than you, and I'm
43:02
Speaker 2: being the better, bigger person by imparting on you this
43:06
Speaker 2: advice or these prayers or whatever because you failed somewhere
43:10
Speaker 2: and that's what's happening with you, and that's the reason
43:13
Speaker 2: it isn't happening with me. And we've talked about that
43:15
Speaker 2: with like the human brain interprets reason where there's often
43:19
Speaker 2: no reason. So just because something hasn't happened to you,
43:24
Speaker 2: that doesn't mean that God was like the reason.
43:28
Speaker 1: Right, right, Yeah, that's the whole different thing, right, and
43:33
Speaker 1: we should talk about it in a whole different manner.
43:36
Speaker 1: But when it comes back to this, when we're talking
43:38
Speaker 1: about strangers implying these things and bringing in religion into it,
43:42
Speaker 1: and or with cures, she mentioned the flash, I was
43:45
Speaker 1: very appreciative of this because it is one of my
43:48
Speaker 1: favorite shows, So thank you.
43:50
Speaker 3: Yes, I thought she mentioned that.
43:53
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, here we go. But she also
43:56
Speaker 1: talks about this whole cure all mentality and outside of
44:02
Speaker 1: the pains that she goes through her embracing of who
44:06
Speaker 1: she is and having the good days and the bad days,
44:08
Speaker 1: and we all we all hit that, and of course
44:11
Speaker 1: we all want things to be what we expected to
44:13
Speaker 1: be better. We're like, oh, if we had this, this
44:15
Speaker 1: would be better. If we did this, this would be better.
44:17
Speaker 1: If this was here, this would be better. Which is
44:19
Speaker 1: what she does in this alternate timeline. But it's that
44:23
Speaker 1: narrative that we didn't realize anything was wrong until people
44:26
Speaker 1: told us we were wrong, or people told us people
44:29
Speaker 1: told her she should be sad, or people told her
44:32
Speaker 1: she can't do this, and that's when she, for the
44:35
Speaker 1: longest time, did not realize there was a difference until
44:38
Speaker 1: that point in time, until she couldn't be the norm
44:41
Speaker 1: by finding a seat because she's because they didn't think
44:45
Speaker 1: about people outside of that, like this is the ablest
44:47
Speaker 1: idea is this teaches those who aren't in that same
44:53
Speaker 1: level or aren't able to do these things, you're not normal.
44:57
Speaker 1: This is the normal. And had we not had these
44:59
Speaker 1: narrow to begin with that you are a problem to
45:02
Speaker 1: be fixed or someone is a problem to be fixed,
45:04
Speaker 1: they would have never known, or we would have never known.
45:07
Speaker 1: And then when we were face with that, it's not
45:09
Speaker 1: so much there that we feel wrong. It's more so
45:13
Speaker 1: that the narrative tells us we're wrong.
45:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, And she brings up the coverage around after when
45:17
Speaker 2: Stephen Hawking died and we had an episode a while
45:20
Speaker 2: back when Bridget was on with Annie Sigara, who's another
45:24
Speaker 2: activist in the disabled community, and if you somehow miss
45:28
Speaker 2: his coverage, a lot of it was like Stephen Hawking
45:31
Speaker 2: being freed from his wheelchair and death. And Keia Brown writes, like,
45:38
Speaker 2: that's what you took from everything he accomplished, Like what
45:41
Speaker 2: about his life was not like that.
45:45
Speaker 3: Was the thing? That was what the narrative we're gonna
45:48
Speaker 3: run with? Okay, then.
45:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it is like, dude, he's a genius. Well
45:56
Speaker 1: by standard, he didn't do everything great, but he accomplished
45:59
Speaker 1: an amazing thing. What I don't think that his biggest
46:02
Speaker 1: fault was having a wheelchair, by the way, either, just
46:07
Speaker 1: f why I but yeah, And continuing with that, she
46:10
Speaker 1: talks about the importance of accessibility and she writes the
46:14
Speaker 1: ADA Education and Reform Act, which passed in the US
46:18
Speaker 1: House of Representative as HR six twenty twenty eighteen, is
46:22
Speaker 1: designed to roll back the rights of disabled people, which
46:26
Speaker 1: require that people with disabilities who wish to report access
46:29
Speaker 1: barriers and buildings in public spaces become essentially code experts,
46:35
Speaker 1: give notice to the appropriate owners, and then wait six
46:38
Speaker 1: months or longer for the business or government agencies to
46:41
Speaker 1: make substantial progress. And that doesn't even guarantee that the
46:45
Speaker 1: issues in question will be fixed and that's, oh my god, infuriating,
46:52
Speaker 1: Like there's so many things that happened in thatministration, like
46:54
Speaker 1: this wasn't even necessary, it wasn't why.
46:57
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's ridiculous. And then we wanted to talk
47:15
Speaker 2: about Hugh's relationship with her twin sister Leah and kind
47:18
Speaker 2: of this jealousy around it when they were growing up
47:21
Speaker 2: and resenting Leah's body when she would compare it to
47:27
Speaker 2: her own.
47:28
Speaker 1: Right, and she writes, how dare she walk around beautiful
47:32
Speaker 1: and quote normal with her standard and normal working legs
47:36
Speaker 1: and arms, while I walked around like a freak. And
47:39
Speaker 1: the older Leah and I got the deeper my anger
47:42
Speaker 1: took root and grew. I'd pick fights with Leah, call
47:45
Speaker 1: her name, scratch her body by using my stronger left arm,
47:49
Speaker 1: and bite down before she could block me. I did
47:51
Speaker 1: this in a desperate attempt to make her as ugly
47:54
Speaker 1: as I thought I was. I became very desperate around
47:57
Speaker 1: the time boys started to find her attractive and asked
48:00
Speaker 1: me to put in a good word with her. I
48:02
Speaker 1: believe that the attention she received made me uglier. And yeah,
48:07
Speaker 1: she talks about specific incidents about getting her hopes up
48:10
Speaker 1: and realizing they were asking about Leah, and it made
48:14
Speaker 1: me so sad because of course she comes back and
48:17
Speaker 1: talks about the fact that she had pictured it bigger
48:20
Speaker 1: than what her sister pictured it, but that she was
48:24
Speaker 1: the one who damaged their relationship and like she was
48:27
Speaker 1: the mingirl essentially of this relationship. And it made me like, oh.
48:32
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, because they're twins.
48:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it is one of those things where I
48:39
Speaker 2: was reading it and it reminded me of what we
48:41
Speaker 2: talked about recently in like Jenifer's Body, where these like
48:44
Speaker 2: oppressive like white supremacy patriarchal systems end up turning you know,
48:49
Speaker 2: people marginalized people against other.
48:51
Speaker 3: Marginalized people, or just people in your life.
48:54
Speaker 2: I'm glad that their relationship is well on the mend
48:57
Speaker 2: and healing and they're very close now, but it is
48:59
Speaker 2: sad when you think about those things in your life
49:01
Speaker 2: where you're like I was lashing out at the wrong
49:04
Speaker 2: right person. And she has this whole chapter on jealousy,
49:07
Speaker 2: looking into it and why it happens and why it
49:11
Speaker 2: happened in this case, and it's it is very relatable,
49:17
Speaker 2: but it is very sad because like you were saying,
49:18
Speaker 2: you know, it's one of those things that she kind
49:20
Speaker 2: of learned this hatred of herself. She didn't have it,
49:23
Speaker 2: and then she learned it, and then that separated her
49:26
Speaker 2: even further from like a relationship in her life that
49:28
Speaker 2: had been healthy and nice and would have hopefully been
49:32
Speaker 2: that way throughout when she could.
49:34
Speaker 3: Have used it instead, you know, flashed out. And I
49:40
Speaker 3: think we've all been there where we've taken things.
49:45
Speaker 2: Out that we are feeling it ourselves essentially, but we've
49:48
Speaker 2: taken it out on other people, right. So she also
49:51
Speaker 2: writes I often took Leah's lack of concern or care
49:53
Speaker 2: about boys's personal attack. Leo was single because she wanted
49:56
Speaker 2: to be, while I felt I had no other choice.
49:58
Speaker 2: This lack of choice made me angry. And I want
50:00
Speaker 2: to include this because there was a lot. I was
50:04
Speaker 2: recently on Holly's Star Wars show, Holly Frive, SOPHI miscastry
50:09
Speaker 2: class he's been on the show. I was recently on
50:11
Speaker 2: her Star Wars show Full of Sith you can check
50:13
Speaker 2: it out, and in the middle of it, she was
50:14
Speaker 2: kind of like, you know what, I feel like I
50:15
Speaker 2: can tell a lot about people based on their experience
50:18
Speaker 2: with Star Wars, and I can tell you've got a
50:20
Speaker 2: lot of family drama. And I was like, since she
50:24
Speaker 2: said something so deep, but I did.
50:27
Speaker 3: I really related to that because me and my little
50:28
Speaker 3: brother had.
50:29
Speaker 2: A huge fight about this very thing where he thought
50:34
Speaker 2: that me not being interested in dating was essentially hurting
50:38
Speaker 2: or impacting him, and.
50:40
Speaker 3: I never saw it that way.
50:41
Speaker 2: But she also writes about her relationship with her brother
50:44
Speaker 2: and how stressful batsman, and that reminded me of my
50:47
Speaker 2: relationship with my brother. It's just a very complicated relationship
50:51
Speaker 2: that we have, and I often struggle with even talking
50:53
Speaker 2: about it because I'm like, very protective of him but
50:57
Speaker 2: have been very hurt by him at the same time.
50:59
Speaker 2: So it's like I always feel like I have to
51:01
Speaker 2: give people context to everything. I'm like before you change.
51:05
Speaker 2: But yeah, I just that was a very personal note
51:07
Speaker 2: for me, or I felt like I really connected with that.
51:10
Speaker 2: I also really connected where she kept she mentioned Mary
51:13
Speaker 2: Kate and Ashley.
51:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought about us well, and this one, I'm like,
51:17
Speaker 1: man she said in all our Buttons.
51:19
Speaker 2: Yeah she is, she said Cinderella with Brandy and I
51:21
Speaker 2: was like Samttha.
51:23
Speaker 1: In the Flash and now Mary Kate and Ashley for
51:26
Speaker 1: you that level. Yeah, I thought about it.
51:29
Speaker 3: Yeah.
51:30
Speaker 2: She also talked about Tia and Tamara when she was
51:32
Speaker 2: thinking about these and like, this is the twin relationship
51:34
Speaker 2: she thought she should have was these twins she was watching.
51:38
Speaker 2: But did want to include this quote because we have
51:39
Speaker 2: been talking about entertaining a lot. The idea that disability
51:42
Speaker 2: is punishment is reflected back to us in TV and movies,
51:45
Speaker 2: thus influencing policy and law. The fear of expressing a
51:49
Speaker 2: part of who you are, for fear of backlash is
51:51
Speaker 2: a familiar concept to most marginalized people. The cycle can
51:54
Speaker 2: be broken once we take the step of ending the
51:56
Speaker 2: stigma so that people feel comfortable disclosing and telling worthwhile
51:59
Speaker 2: stories of disability, which can change cultural ideas and policies
52:03
Speaker 2: that negatively affect the disability community. And we've talked about
52:06
Speaker 2: that before, that what people see on TV. There have
52:11
Speaker 2: been studies that show it does impact policy. It impacts
52:15
Speaker 2: the laws that we make or don't make, or what
52:18
Speaker 2: we put money behind, which we could have a whole
52:22
Speaker 2: commentary on the cons of that, but it's true. So
52:26
Speaker 2: this was when she was talking about the importance of
52:29
Speaker 2: good representation.
52:31
Speaker 1: Right, I mean, we can talk about that with the
52:33
Speaker 1: pandemic and what's happening right now as the delta variant
52:38
Speaker 1: is happening, and the fact that they are dismissing any
52:42
Speaker 1: of the disabled community in high risk communities by sending
52:46
Speaker 1: everybody back to school without the option of doing virtual
52:50
Speaker 1: And again, no one's really talking about it as much
52:52
Speaker 1: as a disabled community or those who are impacted by it.
52:56
Speaker 1: And that's the unfortunate part is because people are not
52:59
Speaker 1: willing to talk about it if it's not personal to them.
53:02
Speaker 1: So about their children. Sure, children are annoyed by masks,
53:06
Speaker 1: don't make them wear masks. Oh, children need to be
53:08
Speaker 1: back in school because I don't want them here. To
53:12
Speaker 1: be fair, that's not most people. I'm not dismissing the
53:15
Speaker 1: fact that having children at home is hard, I know,
53:18
Speaker 1: and that those who do not have access. But what
53:21
Speaker 1: I'm saying is those are the larger conversations than those
53:24
Speaker 1: who of the disabled community. So we have to recognize that.
53:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, just saying for sure, a lot of putting the
53:31
Speaker 3: comfort first.
53:32
Speaker 2: That's what it's me about the masks is I'm like,
53:35
Speaker 2: you know what, I get that maybe it's more comfortable
53:37
Speaker 2: for you, but in the end, it's about comfort, right,
53:42
Speaker 2: you can do it.
53:42
Speaker 3: It's gonna be fine.
53:43
Speaker 1: That's not in need. Comfortable is not necessarily need based.
53:47
Speaker 3: Yeah, used to getting what you want.
53:50
Speaker 1: Same thing with a critical race theory, but hey.
53:53
Speaker 3: Yep, exactly ur indeed.
53:56
Speaker 2: And then I did want to include this very briefly
53:59
Speaker 2: before we close out to you. She has this whole
54:01
Speaker 2: thing about like love and how much she wants to
54:03
Speaker 2: find love, her love of brom comms. That also made
54:06
Speaker 2: me think of you. I love how she has like
54:08
Speaker 2: Hallmark one where she was like, oh, this is my relationship,
54:12
Speaker 2: like just picking up on those things, and she writes
54:14
Speaker 2: about like never having been in love and the fear
54:17
Speaker 2: of never finding love, of never being in love, of
54:19
Speaker 2: being worthy of love, and how she wants those things.
54:23
Speaker 2: And I was just really moved by it because it's
54:25
Speaker 2: a very personal thing to be open about with. But
54:28
Speaker 2: it's something I also connected with because I have caught
54:33
Speaker 2: myself wanting those things even though I identify as a.
54:35
Speaker 3: Sexual or gray sexual.
54:37
Speaker 2: And I think it's because I do see it and
54:39
Speaker 2: it looks so wonderful and entertainment. But it was just
54:42
Speaker 2: kind of nice to read about, like, oh, yeah, this
54:44
Speaker 2: is sort of what I'm talking about.
54:46
Speaker 3: It's like, it's right, it sounds lovely.
54:49
Speaker 1: I think we all yearned for that. And she talks
54:51
Speaker 1: about this with our music to like her her moods
54:54
Speaker 1: and what she felt through music, whether it was through
54:57
Speaker 1: Paramore or the old school stuff. She also talks about
55:01
Speaker 1: Demi Levado and their song Skyscaper, which actually I loved
55:05
Speaker 1: that song and it is probably one of the most
55:07
Speaker 1: tear jernking like open raw songs for me as well.
55:10
Speaker 1: So when Kia was talking about it, I was like, Yeah,
55:12
Speaker 1: they do an amazing job in this level because I
55:16
Speaker 1: think Demi Levado is coming through the first rehab stant
55:21
Speaker 1: just letting those go and just feeling so fragile, but
55:25
Speaker 1: at the same time breaking through all of that, because
55:27
Speaker 1: there is there's something about this level of songs that
55:31
Speaker 1: they've got the right chorse, they got the right lyrics,
55:34
Speaker 1: and I know, you know, oh yeah with your soundtracks
55:36
Speaker 1: that I do too, and like feeling that depth and
55:39
Speaker 1: that level, but that emotion of just wanting to be
55:44
Speaker 1: wanted and that that is a level that goes beyond
55:50
Speaker 1: just rationale, Like rationally we know that this is not
55:55
Speaker 1: maybe not realistic, this is not what happens, this is
55:57
Speaker 1: not the real world, but that need, that favorite pitch
56:00
Speaker 1: of like wanting to feel the songs in such a
56:04
Speaker 1: depth of emotion and we can't whether it's feeling all
56:08
Speaker 1: of a sudden inspired or feeling so sad and broken
56:12
Speaker 1: or so like empty and alone, which is that emo phase,
56:16
Speaker 1: but finding that love, that being told you're that girl,
56:20
Speaker 1: that special one that you know you're the beautiful, most
56:22
Speaker 1: beautiful woman when the worst state of being and never
56:25
Speaker 1: really actually hearing that. To actually find that it is rare,
56:30
Speaker 1: and that is that one, like holy girl. I think
56:32
Speaker 1: for a lot of young girls to wish to be
56:36
Speaker 1: the boy band fantasy, yes you know, and I'm like, yeah, yeah,
56:42
Speaker 1: I feel that. I hear that. And when you feel
56:45
Speaker 1: like there's something wrong with you, when there's feeling like
56:48
Speaker 1: these are the reasons why they can't love me, it's
56:51
Speaker 1: this whole level like trying to go past that and
56:55
Speaker 1: how do I get to this? I will say I
56:57
Speaker 1: also appreciated her stories, which makes me disgusted about like
57:01
Speaker 1: trying to online date and all that because I don't
57:05
Speaker 1: necessarily have the same experience, but I definitely had that
57:09
Speaker 1: Oh you're Asian. I'm sorry. I have a fetish for Asians,
57:11
Speaker 1: so let me go ahead and talk to you and
57:13
Speaker 1: see if you'll do these things for me. And I'm like,
57:15
Speaker 1: hell nah nah nah nah nah mmmmmm mmm.
57:23
Speaker 3: Yeah.
57:24
Speaker 2: I think it was just it was also really nice
57:26
Speaker 2: to hear someone being so open and hopeful about it.
57:30
Speaker 3: Yeah, at a older age, and she's not older at all,
57:35
Speaker 3: but I feel like a.
57:36
Speaker 1: Lot of time, so how dare you?
57:38
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, I think she's young me. Okay, she's
57:41
Speaker 2: younger than me, and I'm so young.
57:45
Speaker 3: I did hear a podcasts the other day where I
57:46
Speaker 3: was like, I'm twenty nine. I'm like, what, Oh my god,
57:49
Speaker 3: I've been doing this well.
57:50
Speaker 1: Into my world it gets worse.
57:52
Speaker 2: No, no, but I think there's that reaches a certain
57:55
Speaker 2: age where you kind of close up about that stuff, yeah,
57:58
Speaker 2: or you might feel ashamed about like you. I haven't
58:00
Speaker 2: found it yet. I think that's definitely changing for sure.
58:04
Speaker 2: But we've talked about I thought I was gonna be
58:05
Speaker 2: married by like twenty one and I have kids by
58:08
Speaker 2: twenty six or whatever, So I don't know. I just
58:10
Speaker 2: really appreciated that. And then I wanted to close on
58:15
Speaker 2: this quote, which I love. I like me so much
58:18
Speaker 2: that when I think about it, I giggle like I've
58:20
Speaker 2: got a crush. When I smile, it feels like the
58:22
Speaker 2: sun is filling up in my body so that when
58:24
Speaker 2: I move around the world I can light it up.
58:27
Speaker 2: I like me so much now that I know I
58:29
Speaker 2: don't need to be the best or the prettiest person
58:31
Speaker 2: anyone meets.
58:31
Speaker 3: I just need to be me, and that's enough.
58:34
Speaker 2: The world at largest still clinging to ablest and harmful
58:36
Speaker 2: ideas of disabled people. Still, I can't allow myself to
58:39
Speaker 2: let the opinions of a culture influence my whole view
58:42
Speaker 2: the way they did before. I have too much left
58:44
Speaker 2: to do, and I've worked too damn hard to get here.
58:47
Speaker 2: The rest of the world will catch up, whether it
58:49
Speaker 2: wants to or not, especially with the work that the
58:52
Speaker 2: disability community, and especially the women in our community, are
58:55
Speaker 2: doing to ensure that it is happening through hell or
58:58
Speaker 2: high water. Outside of my disability work, I want to
59:00
Speaker 2: write books that mean as much to me as Dessins
59:03
Speaker 2: and Morrison's do. I want my future books to be
59:05
Speaker 2: all light for someone and I love that.
59:08
Speaker 3: And this was a light for us. Yes, it was
59:12
Speaker 3: so lovely.
59:13
Speaker 2: Listeners, if you haven't read it, We highly highly recommend
59:16
Speaker 2: going to pick it up right now, Yes, right now,
59:19
Speaker 2: and then listen to this again and make more sense.
59:21
Speaker 3: Come back, yes, come back always.
59:24
Speaker 2: And if you have any book suggestions for our next
59:27
Speaker 2: book club, you can email them to us. Our email
59:29
Speaker 2: is Stephandia mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com. You can
59:32
Speaker 2: find us on Twitter at mom Stuff podcast or on
59:34
Speaker 2: Instagram at stuff I've Never Told You Things.
59:36
Speaker 3: As always to our super producer, Christina, also the light
59:39
Speaker 3: of our lives.
59:39
Speaker 2: Yes, and thanks to you for listening Stuff I've Never
59:42
Speaker 2: Told You the projection of iHeartRadio.
59:44
Speaker 3: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, it's the iHeartRadio app
59:46
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or where you listen to your favorite shows