Latest / The Paul Barron Crypto Show / Bitcoin Innovation Dead?💀Paul Sztorc INTERVIEW

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Bitcoin Innovation Dead?💀Paul Sztorc INTERVIEW · The Paul Barron Crypto Show

0:06
Speaker 1: A lot of issues today with bitcoin and innovation. Today
0:08
Speaker 1: we're going to break it down for you, give you
0:10
Speaker 1: a little understanding of whether or not this is the
0:12
Speaker 1: investment for you. My name is Paul Barrew. Welcome back
0:15
Speaker 1: in to Tech Path. Let's get into it today. I
0:17
Speaker 1: do want to thank our sponsor that's Tangent. This is
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0:32
Speaker 1: bring in a guy who's been on our show before
0:35
Speaker 1: and we've talked to him about the issue of bitcoin.
0:38
Speaker 1: He is probably one, I think one of the experts
0:41
Speaker 1: in the industry of understanding where bitcoin is. And I
0:44
Speaker 1: want to introduce Paul Startz, coming in from Layer two Labs.
0:47
Speaker 2: How are you, Paul, I'm doing great, Thanks for having me.
0:49
Speaker 1: And of course Jack Dorsey, I would say, is one
0:52
Speaker 1: of the leading proponents of bitcoin. And I want to
0:55
Speaker 1: play a clip for you just so you can kind
0:57
Speaker 1: of get a frame and give our audience a framework
0:59
Speaker 1: of what he is to say.
1:00
Speaker 2: Today.
1:00
Speaker 3: Take a look you're working on important to bitcoin's future.
1:04
Speaker 4: And why we have a team working on mining, we
1:06
Speaker 4: have a team working on Biki self custodial wallet, and
1:09
Speaker 4: then we have our bitcoin exchange business within cash app.
1:13
Speaker 3: So let's fast forward to the future. And bitcoin has failed?
1:17
Speaker 3: How did it fail?
1:19
Speaker 4: It fails to be relevant to people on a daily basis.
1:22
Speaker 4: I think if it doesn't transition to payments, it's increasingly irrelevant.
1:26
Speaker 4: That's fair to me? Is it just digital gold? And
1:29
Speaker 4: I put this thing and I forget okay done, It's
1:31
Speaker 4: not enough for me.
1:33
Speaker 3: What do you think that we can do to mitigate
1:35
Speaker 3: that risk?
1:36
Speaker 4: Making it scale, making it fast, the speed of the
1:38
Speaker 4: visa and mass cared networks, real competition. I don't know
1:41
Speaker 4: if it's controversial, but I think we can do better
1:44
Speaker 4: than lightning, And I don't think we just want to
1:48
Speaker 4: settle with having one layer two. You get out of
1:51
Speaker 4: the US, you get out of this bubble. People are
1:53
Speaker 4: using bitcoin to buy coffee, and they're using it to
1:55
Speaker 4: buy dinner. Those vendors are going to restaurants that accept
1:59
Speaker 4: that bigcoin, and there's tiny, little circular economies happening, and
2:03
Speaker 4: they're actually using it on a regular basis. What's happening
2:06
Speaker 4: on nostros apps that's actually paying for content. It's small scale,
2:10
Speaker 4: but that gives me a lot of hope. It's not
2:12
Speaker 4: something that can just be frozen in time and said, Okay,
2:15
Speaker 4: we're done. We built this protocol. We're not done. There's
2:17
Speaker 4: tons of stuff we need to do to get back
2:20
Speaker 4: to the white paper, which is electronic peer to peer
2:24
Speaker 4: digital cash, like we have not seen that yet. We've
2:27
Speaker 4: not lived up to that potential.
2:28
Speaker 1: All right, So right from the white paper statement from
2:31
Speaker 1: Satosha Nakamoto, the biggest issue has always been about payment speed,
2:36
Speaker 1: network growth and possibilities here. Paul, you have been a
2:39
Speaker 1: proponent of that for many years. I want to go
2:42
Speaker 1: to your own kind of white paper. This was a
2:45
Speaker 1: recent blog that you just did in March, the precedence
2:48
Speaker 1: of ossification.
2:49
Speaker 2: Explain to me what.
2:50
Speaker 1: You were trying to convey here around innovation with bitcoin.
2:54
Speaker 5: Jack's answer was really, really nice, and I have to
2:57
Speaker 5: say that the question is also great, which is part
3:01
Speaker 5: of what this essay is about. The woman I don't
3:05
Speaker 5: know who that is, but she asked a great question,
3:07
Speaker 5: which is bitcoin has failed and how did it fail?
3:09
Speaker 5: It's very popular and bitcoin to just assume that Bitcoin
3:12
Speaker 5: cannot fail. A lot of people have the view that
3:14
Speaker 5: bitcoin has already won. It's a very very popular view
3:17
Speaker 5: that bitcoin is already going to be a two hundred
3:19
Speaker 5: trillion dollar asset or a three hundred trillion dollar asset,
3:22
Speaker 5: and the only thing that's important is that we don't
3:24
Speaker 5: screw it up, so to speak, and that's part of
3:26
Speaker 5: what the essay is about. I don't know how accessible
3:29
Speaker 5: it'll be to the lay person, but there's this idea
3:31
Speaker 5: of ossification where we don't change bitcoin, and some people
3:36
Speaker 5: have turned that idea into the Bitcoin has already one idea,
3:40
Speaker 5: right where Jack has a very different, more accurate point
3:44
Speaker 5: of view, which is that it's more like a piece
3:45
Speaker 5: of software, and it exists in a very competitive world.
3:48
Speaker 2: And if there's a.
3:49
Speaker 5: World where eight billion people are using VSA MasterCard or
3:53
Speaker 5: using some other.
3:54
Speaker 2: Crypto, then bitcoin is not going to survive in that world.
3:57
Speaker 5: So these are it's kind of interesting. There's it's very
3:59
Speaker 5: very sol on one hand, and on the other hand,
4:02
Speaker 5: it's like a matter of life or death for bitcoin.
4:04
Speaker 1: So well, and I think you hit on it. We've
4:07
Speaker 1: talked about this extensively. If you guys want to watch
4:09
Speaker 1: some of our history lessons on bitcoin, just search Paul's
4:13
Speaker 1: name on our network. We've had him on a couple
4:14
Speaker 1: times and he's given some really good insights to this.
4:17
Speaker 1: And of course it boils down to the use case,
4:20
Speaker 1: which is what Jack was alluding to often around payments,
4:24
Speaker 1: the potential of speed of network because he's comparing it
4:27
Speaker 1: with MasterCard, Visa, and now we're starting to see real
4:30
Speaker 1: potential here with stable coin introduction and a lot of
4:34
Speaker 1: other networks that are starting to line up with stable
4:37
Speaker 1: coin use which most likely will compete with things like
4:42
Speaker 1: what we're going to see with Visa and MasterCard in
4:45
Speaker 1: terms of our merchant services out there. But when you
4:47
Speaker 1: look at speed and real transaction time, how long does
4:51
Speaker 1: bitcoin take today? Give me kind of a framework.
4:54
Speaker 5: Yeah, Well, of course, the idea behind the Lightning network
4:57
Speaker 5: is that it would be instant. But I think I'm
4:59
Speaker 5: a huge skeptic the Lighting network. I was very happy
5:01
Speaker 5: to see Jack Dorsey say I think we can do
5:03
Speaker 5: better than the Lighting network. I completely one percent.
5:05
Speaker 2: Agree with that.
5:06
Speaker 5: One problem with the Lighting network is that the payments
5:09
Speaker 5: often fail to route at all, and then so instead
5:12
Speaker 5: of them working instantly they just don't work.
5:14
Speaker 2: At all, Redo it and try try again.
5:17
Speaker 5: Another issue is the more expensive the payment, the harder
5:21
Speaker 5: it is to route. So there's a night and day
5:23
Speaker 5: difference between like a really small payment, and then once
5:25
Speaker 5: they get to like something like eight hundred dollars, they
5:28
Speaker 5: like they stop working enormous for the time that you know,
5:31
Speaker 5: thirty forty percent at the time, it won't work.
5:33
Speaker 2: I mean, imagine you had two cars.
5:35
Speaker 5: You asually have visa and MasterCard, and you're you're out
5:37
Speaker 5: on a date or you're just out.
5:38
Speaker 2: With your friends, and it just doesn't work.
5:41
Speaker 5: At one out of two hundred times, the master card
5:44
Speaker 5: fails and the visa works every time.
5:45
Speaker 2: It's like, well, you know you're not You're never going
5:47
Speaker 2: to reach for that second exactly.
5:49
Speaker 5: We have already been given a way of protecting bitcoin's
5:52
Speaker 5: properties that does not require sacrificing innovation. So the idea
5:57
Speaker 5: of the precedent's ossification is that you can you can
6:00
Speaker 5: release new versions of bitcoin such that if they ever
6:03
Speaker 5: disagree the older one, trump's the new And we had
6:06
Speaker 5: this for many years. This was the origin of the
6:08
Speaker 5: soft fork. This is how the soft first hard fork
6:11
Speaker 5: name came about. In twenty twelve, and but nowadays people
6:14
Speaker 5: want to say that even the softwork is a change
6:16
Speaker 5: to bitcoin, even though that doesn't make any sense because
6:19
Speaker 5: the old network is still right there. So people have
6:23
Speaker 5: decided to turn that into like a political football and
6:27
Speaker 5: they have said that now and for Bitcoin to obtain
6:29
Speaker 5: more properties is actually a bad thing. I couldn't even
6:32
Speaker 5: believe I had to write that essay, but I just thought, well,
6:34
Speaker 5: this is these.
6:35
Speaker 2: Are you saw I'd write at the beginning.
6:37
Speaker 5: But this is a very popular thing about people in
6:39
Speaker 5: bitcoin core, people who have like founded bitcoin companies, Michael Saylor,
6:43
Speaker 5: big media personalities. They all believe this, this idea that
6:46
Speaker 5: we should not like tamper with the code of bitcoin,
6:49
Speaker 5: even though that even in its own terms, it doesn't
6:51
Speaker 5: make any sense helping bitcoin win and succeed because again,
6:54
Speaker 5: if we don't have the users, it will be replaced,
6:57
Speaker 5: and that would will not be at all for it
6:59
Speaker 5: to be replaced.
7:00
Speaker 1: How do you see this playing out with the popularity
7:03
Speaker 1: of the ETF. So you've got black Rock, all these
7:06
Speaker 1: major ETF companies who have been, you know, pushing this
7:09
Speaker 1: out to major investors. But when they start to get
7:13
Speaker 1: and understand what's happening with tokenization, which is mostly writing
7:16
Speaker 1: on ethereum. Right now, what do you think is going
7:19
Speaker 1: to happen? I mean, do you feel like finally the industry,
7:22
Speaker 1: investment industry may wake up and just say, hey, you know,
7:25
Speaker 1: this isn't really an asset for us anymore.
7:27
Speaker 5: The pendulum has swung very far in the like store
7:30
Speaker 5: value direction of like bitcoin is just this dumb rock.
7:34
Speaker 5: It's like a digital gold and it's not supposed to
7:37
Speaker 5: do anything. The pendulum has swung very far in the
7:39
Speaker 5: direction of the etf you know, is sort of in
7:42
Speaker 5: that vein. The unfortunate thing about it is that well,
7:46
Speaker 5: they correctly say that the more adoption the better, because
7:50
Speaker 5: it helps the network effect, it helps the bitcoin brand,
7:53
Speaker 5: it helps recognizability. But if you move in like a
7:57
Speaker 5: corporate direction or even a government option direction, in that world,
8:02
Speaker 5: the proof of work and the transaction fees the blockchain
8:06
Speaker 5: system are all very redundant. And so I think that's
8:09
Speaker 5: what Jack was correctly saying, that we need a world
8:12
Speaker 5: where people are paying transaction fees on the bitcoin network
8:17
Speaker 5: they're actually using bitcoin.
8:18
Speaker 2: There's more of a reciprocity.
8:20
Speaker 5: You have a loyalty to the network and the network,
8:23
Speaker 5: the miners know who's paying all the transaction fees. It's
8:25
Speaker 5: all the users. This is a much healthier state of affairs,
8:29
Speaker 5: whereas actually the ETF is very unstable because it's just
8:32
Speaker 5: now on a whim of a president or something, they
8:35
Speaker 5: can say, well, we want things to change this way,
8:38
Speaker 5: we want we want ten percent of the right fee
8:41
Speaker 5: or whatever, so we want special k y C or
8:44
Speaker 5: any other thing.
8:45
Speaker 2: So more unstable.
8:47
Speaker 5: Whereas if you have a situation where this is just
8:50
Speaker 5: an anonymous computer network where people pay transaction fees, then
8:53
Speaker 5: there's just a complete relationship between the users and the
8:57
Speaker 5: other participants, the miners and the full no, so that's
9:00
Speaker 5: like a healthier outcome.
9:02
Speaker 1: When you think about payments, BTC pay has been out
9:07
Speaker 1: there for a long time, but we haven't seen a
9:09
Speaker 1: lot of advancements in that. Back to your point, also
9:12
Speaker 1: to Jack's point, is that bitcoin is not being used,
9:15
Speaker 1: at least here in the US for any kind of
9:17
Speaker 1: payment rail or even system for merchants. Anything going on
9:21
Speaker 1: with BTC pay that you can talk about are just
9:23
Speaker 1: kind of curious. What's the advancement of that project.
9:27
Speaker 5: BitPay was one of the earliest bitcoin companies, and bit
9:31
Speaker 5: pay was this great idea for a company where you know,
9:35
Speaker 5: you could go into a store and you could you
9:37
Speaker 5: go like your favorite Chinese restaurant or whatever. You could say, hey,
9:39
Speaker 5: you guys should accept bitcoin, and they would say no,
9:41
Speaker 5: of course, because this was back in like twenty twelve
9:43
Speaker 5: or something. Yeah, but with BitPay, all you have to
9:47
Speaker 5: do is put out this little sticker. This is like
9:48
Speaker 5: bit pay bitcoin accepted here sticker, and then you go
9:51
Speaker 5: to bit pay, your customers will pay with bitcoin and
9:54
Speaker 5: then you will get cash twenty four hours later in
9:58
Speaker 5: your checking account. And Bay at the time they would
10:00
Speaker 5: like process the first million dollars for free and then
10:03
Speaker 5: they would charge one percent. So then people had a
10:06
Speaker 5: This is all related to the block size war on
10:08
Speaker 5: various other political you know stuff that should kind of
10:11
Speaker 5: be irrelevant, but BitPay was on the wrong side of
10:13
Speaker 5: the block size war, so they created this other thing.
10:15
Speaker 5: The problem, though, is a BTC pay server it doesn't
10:19
Speaker 5: really do any of that stuff about making it.
10:21
Speaker 2: Easier to accept bitcoin. It kind of makes it easier.
10:24
Speaker 5: For a regular merchant to run some software that does
10:27
Speaker 5: the invoicing so that you collect the bitcoin. But I
10:30
Speaker 5: thought the key part of bit pay was that they
10:32
Speaker 5: were like, we have customer service number you can call,
10:34
Speaker 5: we will give you cash. The next we'll just we'll
10:36
Speaker 5: de risk the whole thing I share. I kind of
10:39
Speaker 5: find it mysterious as to exactly what it is they're doing.
10:44
Speaker 2: They they seem to be very happy with themselves, though
10:46
Speaker 2: I don't I hope that.
10:48
Speaker 5: I still don't understand to this day why someone would
10:51
Speaker 5: pick BTC pay server over bit pay. I don't even
10:54
Speaker 5: see them as in the same category. But that's just
10:56
Speaker 5: how right an example, how everyone thinks of.
10:59
Speaker 1: It or see was hitting on that very point is
11:01
Speaker 1: that you know, to get to the level of worldwide adoption,
11:05
Speaker 1: you're going to have to have some sort of merchant
11:07
Speaker 1: system out there to compete with a MasterCard, visa or
11:10
Speaker 1: at least an alternative too. And I think that's been
11:13
Speaker 1: the challenge that BTC pay has never really been able
11:16
Speaker 1: to accomplish. Let's talk about stable coins on Bitcoin and
11:21
Speaker 1: whether or not tokenized gold could ever go on Bitcoin,
11:24
Speaker 1: because we're seeing tokenized commodities continuing to grow. Here's the
11:29
Speaker 1: most recent chart and you can kind of see it
11:32
Speaker 1: right here. A lot of potential growth here for tokenized
11:36
Speaker 1: commodities and most likely it's going to continue to grow.
11:39
Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on those two areas? Stable coins
11:41
Speaker 1: and tokenized gold.
11:43
Speaker 5: Stable coins are very very popular. This crop of new
11:46
Speaker 5: bitcoiners has shown up that just think it's a different version.
11:51
Speaker 5: Bitclinder is actually not using bit coin is actually not good,
11:54
Speaker 5: and we don't even want it to be too useful
11:56
Speaker 5: because that would lead us down a different path. So
11:59
Speaker 5: they are all connected. It's very interesting that people close
12:02
Speaker 5: or up on whether or not they think, uh, is
12:04
Speaker 5: bitcoin going to have to compete to survive? And you
12:08
Speaker 5: see Jack Dorsey is really thinking more like, Okay, we
12:11
Speaker 5: have to get serious about yeah.
12:14
Speaker 2: Making this a good product.
12:15
Speaker 5: And then other people are completely in the other direction
12:17
Speaker 5: and they say, oh, we don't have anything to worry
12:19
Speaker 5: about it at all.
12:20
Speaker 2: And in fact, if we do.
12:21
Speaker 5: Show any kind of flexibility, that would make it seem
12:26
Speaker 5: that makes us easily manipulable, and that means that the
12:28
Speaker 5: project's going to be destroyed. So people have opposites in So.
12:32
Speaker 1: Paul, what is holding back you know, bitcoin from being
12:36
Speaker 1: utilized as a stable coin, you know support network much
12:41
Speaker 1: like what we've seen with RC twenty with USDC. You
12:44
Speaker 1: look at all sorts of different stable coins now writing
12:47
Speaker 1: in on this, why haven't we seen that with bitcoin?
12:50
Speaker 1: And even in the scenario of getting into tokenized commodities
12:54
Speaker 1: with bitcoin? Is there a technical issue here?
12:57
Speaker 2: It's a combination of things.
12:59
Speaker 5: There is a technical limitations of the Bitcoin blockchain on
13:04
Speaker 5: l one, which was limited to one megabyte, which is
13:10
Speaker 5: wisely in my view by this complicated conversation, but that's
13:14
Speaker 5: the technical part. But also sort of like what I
13:17
Speaker 5: was just saying about, how they there's this mutually reinforcing beliefs.
13:22
Speaker 5: It's kind of like a sour grape where people thought, oh,
13:25
Speaker 5: we can't have this, this isn't going to fit on
13:26
Speaker 5: Bitcoin anymore, and then people decide, you know, we never
13:28
Speaker 5: wanted that anyway, and then it gets pushed out. So
13:32
Speaker 5: it all this has all started on Bitcoin, you know,
13:35
Speaker 5: and then it moved to other chains. These chains are
13:37
Speaker 5: more willing to push the envelope on decentralization, like kind
13:42
Speaker 5: of how expensive it is to run a full node,
13:46
Speaker 5: Which new features do we want to try, like the
13:48
Speaker 5: z case snarks, which are very very complicated, and so
13:50
Speaker 5: they're not in Bitcoin, but they are in many many
13:52
Speaker 5: coins now and so that is so it's all related
13:58
Speaker 5: like at first it was technical and so, and the
14:00
Speaker 5: culture changed as a result to say we don't care
14:02
Speaker 5: about that, even though you did care. But now the
14:05
Speaker 5: culture is making it so we could technically alter this
14:09
Speaker 5: so that bitcoin could do all this innovation on the
14:12
Speaker 5: L twos without changing L one, right.
14:16
Speaker 2: But I think now.
14:17
Speaker 5: The cultural issues are the big drag, Like there's just
14:21
Speaker 5: people don't want to go to bat for that because
14:24
Speaker 5: it's not in vogue right now, which is a strange
14:27
Speaker 5: thing to say, but that's it is.
14:29
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is a strange thing, especially with innovation being
14:32
Speaker 1: kind of at the forefront, and it seems like the
14:34
Speaker 1: golden time of digital assets is happening right now. Bitcoin
14:37
Speaker 1: should be literally at the front of the line. I
14:40
Speaker 1: want to hit on two last points. What happens after
14:43
Speaker 1: bitcoin every bitcoin is mined. You had a statement, it
14:47
Speaker 1: was in the last paragraph of this very long essay
14:50
Speaker 1: that you did, and you were talking about the twenty
14:52
Speaker 1: sixteen Bitcoin Uncensored podcast, and it was talking about the
14:57
Speaker 1: suggestion of a mining company where it only allows transaction
15:00
Speaker 1: that have done KYC and a m l so.
15:02
Speaker 2: And then I think the.
15:04
Speaker 5: Key thing about bitcoin is that anyone can use it
15:06
Speaker 5: no matter what the transaction is. So it's like you
15:10
Speaker 5: have you have the question of whether or not something
15:11
Speaker 5: is constrained as a medium of exchange, which is like
15:14
Speaker 5: a core issue for money. It's like, so it's.
15:16
Speaker 2: Kind of like.
15:19
Speaker 5: The point they were trying to make was that there's
15:21
Speaker 5: some people that visa won't serve, so there's people being
15:25
Speaker 5: left behind, and bitcoin move into there, and then bitcoin
15:28
Speaker 5: can also be used for all the every normal transaction,
15:31
Speaker 5: so then it kind of is like the only thing
15:33
Speaker 5: that works for everyone.
15:35
Speaker 2: Part they were going to say, you.
15:37
Speaker 1: Didn't really clearly answer the point of what happens when
15:40
Speaker 1: all the bitcoin is mined.
15:43
Speaker 5: There will be no new bitcoin in each block, and
15:46
Speaker 5: the miners will only be compensated with transaction fees the
15:50
Speaker 5: total transaction fees collected by the block. One interesting fact
15:54
Speaker 5: about this is that in my view, although this is
15:56
Speaker 5: hotly debated, but I wrote a giant long piece, even
15:59
Speaker 5: longer than Classification one, about this topic, and these fees
16:04
Speaker 5: have never really risen.
16:06
Speaker 2: They you can go you can zoom out and find
16:08
Speaker 2: a point.
16:09
Speaker 5: In time where they were like one ten thousands of
16:11
Speaker 5: a penny, and then they go up to like one penny,
16:13
Speaker 5: and then people say that that counts as them rising,
16:15
Speaker 5: but really that's just like an artifact of just the
16:17
Speaker 5: history of bitcoin being worth a different amount and no
16:19
Speaker 5: one carrying at all.
16:20
Speaker 2: Those those are all just like less than ten cents.
16:23
Speaker 5: And you find a few times when the transaction fee
16:27
Speaker 5: rate will spike when bitcoin gets really really hot and
16:30
Speaker 5: everyone wants them and the price is going way way up,
16:34
Speaker 5: and then the price can go up to like, you know,
16:36
Speaker 5: fifty dollars per transaction or so, but it always goes
16:39
Speaker 5: back down, and it really is very good at persistently
16:42
Speaker 5: staying very very low, which to me suggests that the
16:46
Speaker 5: real market clearing price is just whatever we see today,
16:48
Speaker 5: which is basically fifty cents yea a transaction times two
16:54
Speaker 5: five hundred transactions a block or so, it would be
16:58
Speaker 5: only one thousand dollars per block. That's only one million
17:01
Speaker 5: dollars a week, which is very, very very low.
17:04
Speaker 1: And you know, I think a lot of our audience,
17:05
Speaker 1: because everybody that comes to our show, they're trying to
17:08
Speaker 1: figure out we cover tech innovation. Blockchain is part of that,
17:12
Speaker 1: and of course bitcoin is kind of in the center
17:14
Speaker 1: zone of what blockchain is really talking about, and everybody's
17:18
Speaker 1: asking that question right now, is it an investible commodity?
17:22
Speaker 1: And if it is, has it become digital gold. If
17:25
Speaker 1: that's going to be the model that we're going forward on,
17:28
Speaker 1: then so be it. I guess the market will accept
17:30
Speaker 1: that or not because there's probably going to be or
17:33
Speaker 1: clearly already are a lot more solutions out there that
17:37
Speaker 1: are going in that direction. Last point is talking about Noster,
17:41
Speaker 1: of course, is a bitcoin backed social media platform. Many
17:46
Speaker 1: of you guys probably don't even know this one, but
17:47
Speaker 1: there's actually a social media platform out there where you
17:50
Speaker 1: can transact in bitcoin. The only problem is is that
17:53
Speaker 1: they have not been growing daily active users for quite
17:56
Speaker 1: a while, have pretty much been flat. So what is
18:01
Speaker 1: the potential for bitcoin to even be utilized in a
18:05
Speaker 1: social media network?
18:07
Speaker 5: Well, Noster is again it's similar to BitPay, where it's
18:11
Speaker 5: kind of like it was supposed to replace Twitter, and.
18:14
Speaker 2: I think it was created at a time when Twitter is.
18:17
Speaker 5: More censorious and it's very difficult to compete with network effects.
18:21
Speaker 5: I mean, why did the Elon Musk buy Twitter for?
18:24
Speaker 5: Why did it cost forty four billion dollars? You know,
18:26
Speaker 5: because it's not the tech stack. There's no way, you know,
18:29
Speaker 5: you could hire some engineer poach them.
18:31
Speaker 2: No doubt, no doubt, you don't need forty four billion dollars.
18:34
Speaker 5: So they bought it because that's where all the users are,
18:36
Speaker 5: and why don't all the users just move somewhere else?
18:39
Speaker 5: And it's like, well, they can't really, they can't really
18:41
Speaker 5: coordinate the switchover on any given day.
18:43
Speaker 1: Listen, there's a lot to be thinking about here, and
18:45
Speaker 1: of course we wanted to give you guys a deeper
18:47
Speaker 1: insight to this, so we called upon Paul to help
18:50
Speaker 1: us with that. Of course, if you want to check
18:51
Speaker 1: out what he's doing, go over to a Layer two labs.
18:53
Speaker 1: You can search that up out there. Paul, it's been
18:55
Speaker 1: great having you on the show today. We always appreciate
18:58
Speaker 1: you stopping.
18:58
Speaker 2: In, thanks having me, Thank you, you.
19:01
Speaker 1: Bet, you bet all right, So you guys, if you're
19:03
Speaker 1: not in the diamond circle, get in right now because
19:06
Speaker 1: right now the time is getting crazy out there in
19:09
Speaker 1: terms of these tariffs.
19:10
Speaker 2: We'll be doing a couple.
19:11
Speaker 1: Other videos to cover that this week and the impact
19:14
Speaker 1: on what your crypto investments are, what your traditional investments
19:17
Speaker 1: are looking like. So use the link down below to
19:20
Speaker 1: get in on that and follow me out there on
19:22
Speaker 1: X at Paul Baron. We'll catch you next time, right
19:24
Speaker 1: here on tech Path