Latest / The Demia Avery Show / It’s Not Always About Talent! Chad Darnell Talks Casting, Hollywood & More

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It’s Not Always About Talent! Chad Darnell Talks Casting, Hollywood & More · The Demia Avery Show

• 0:00
  If you got a dream, come closer. [music]
• 0:04
  If you want to shine, come over. We
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  breaking all the rules tonight.
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  Yeah, we stepping [music]
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  in the spotlight. This the industry
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  where [music]
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  everybody trying to be
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  [music] nice.
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  >> [music]
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  >> Hello everyone. This is Deia Avery with
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  the Deia Avery Show. Let me ask you,
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  what happens when a wrong phone call
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  turns into a career in the industry?
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  Well, apparently you end up working on
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  some pretty big movies. So, my guest
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  today has worked behind the scenes on
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  productions like Spider-Man, Scary Movie
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  2, Selma, Magic Mike. Uh, we got to talk
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  about that. But here's what makes his
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  story so interesting. He's not just a
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  casting director. He's also an actor,
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  writer, director, which means he knows
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  what it's like to be on both sides of
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  the audition table. So, get comfortable
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  because this is going to be a good one.
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  Please welcome casting director, actor,
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  writer, director Chad Darnell. Welcome.
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  >> Thank you for that intro. Like, I
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  actually think you actually got me. So
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  many people just [laughter] like casting
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  like you do a little more than that.
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  I do just a little bit more than that,
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  but I love it. I love it. So, okay. So,
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  Chad, your your casting career started
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  because somebody accidentally called you
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  in to work. So, I need you to explain
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  more about that. And have you ever
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  thought about where you'd be if that
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  person actually hadn't, you know, had
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  dialed the wrong number?
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  >> It's and it's it's it becomes a full
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  circle moment 30 plus years later
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  because I was uh I went I grew up in
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  Atlanta. I went to Georgia State and so
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  while I was going to Georgia State in
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  the early 90s, I was working on a TV
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  show called I'll Fly Away. Okay.
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  >> Cynthia Stoell was the extra's casting
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  director. She would become my casting.
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  Well, as the story would happen,
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  >> she had cast me as an I was like a
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  featured extra. Like I was around Jeremy
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  London. I just never I was like one of
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  his mute friends who never spoke.
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  >> And then one day the uh one of the
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  camera operators said, "Oh, let's use
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  Chad as a as a standin."
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  >> So they started incorporating me more as
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  a standin. And then one day I was
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  supposed to like I became a regular
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  standin when I wasn't, you know, in
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  school. I still don't know how I got
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  through four years of Georgia State, but
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  I did um while working at the same time.
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  And um there was one day where we got
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  the prelim sheet at a call she had at
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  lunch and I went over to Jonathan and I
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  said, "Oh, Jeremy's not working
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  tomorrow." And he said, "Oh, right. I'll
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  change that." And one of the other
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  standins kind of like slapped me was
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  like, "No, you don't tell them that."
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  Because they call you in on a day you're
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  not working, then they have to pay you.
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  I was like, "Oh, okay."
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  >> And so I sure enough, call sheet comes
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  out. I'm still on there. So Jeremy's
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  not. And uh so I show up the next day
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  and I walk up to Jonathan. He's like,
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  "What are you doing here?" I said, "I'm
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  still on the call sheet. That means you
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  have to pay me." And he goes, "Oh man."
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  Right? He's, "Well, I tell you what, go
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  to the extras casting office and help
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  them make phone calls because they need
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  a lot of help right now. This is before
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  the internet, you know, you had to
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  staple a photo and send it in and mail
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  it. And
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  >> so I was and I was curious about
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  casting. I'd always loved casting, like
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  the idea of coming up with names for for
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  characters. I I remember working at Eard
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  Drugs back in the day after the first
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  Batman movie came. Remember Eard?
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  >> Yes. [laughter]
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  >> Yeah. I worked as a clerk and you this
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  was like in high school, early college.
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  I think I was still working at, you
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  know, I was Yeah. But it was whenever
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  they were the first well first Batman
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  came out in 1989. So like it was 8990.
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  >> Okay.
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  >> And Jack Nicholson being the Joker. I
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  was like, "Oh my gosh, you know who
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  would be make a great Catwoman would be
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  Michelle Feifer and Danny Devito as the
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  Penguin."
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  >> I'm not saying that Warner Brothers
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  listened to me. I'm just saying those
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  were my choices, right?
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  >> I also was like Sher would be make a
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  great Catwoman. That would have been a
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  really fun Catwoman.
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  >> That would have been interesting.
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  >> Yeah. Like an older version of Catwoman.
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  But um so like I'd always been
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  interested in casting and so um so I
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  went up to the casting office and I
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  started making phone calls with Cynthia.
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  This again we had fax machines. Like we
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  had to call every single extra and be
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  like can you work on Wednesday? Great.
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  Get a pen. Do you have a pencil? Then
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  you'd wait for 20, you know, two minutes
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  for them to find a a pen. Take I20 East
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  to get to Panola Road. Like I that
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  that's still in my head [laughter]
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  years later.
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  Um, so that's how I got started. And
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  Cynthia became this massive
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  uh gift in my life where she started
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  using me to uh every day that I wasn't
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  in in class or every day after class,
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  she moved into an office off Claremont
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  Road. And so I would hop on Martya and
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  then after school, I'd go straight to
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  the office and and work all day long.
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  >> So I I started off in casting, you know,
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  while in college. And then when I
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  graduated, I went to work for Turner.
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  And then so so full circle moment. Yeah.
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  That second AD who screwed up, his name
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  was Jonathan Watson.
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  >> Okay.
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  >> And my first recurring role
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  >> was playing this um one of the the the
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  um what were we called? Top Christian
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  Men. It was the final season of the
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  show. Okay.
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  >> Myself, Adam Divine, Steven Dwarf. We're
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  like a small group of people trying
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  competing for the top Christian man of
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  the year.
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  >> Okay.
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  >> And [laughter] I uh God bless the Finn
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  Canons. I got this, you know, I booked
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  it and I walked and met Danny McBride
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  and he was very sweet and kind and uh I
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  met the the first the director of the
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  first episode and then this man, this
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  gray-haired man comes around the corner
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  and he goes, "Hi, I just wanted to say
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  you're really really funny. I was just
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  watching the monitor. I'm Jonathan
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  Watson." I was like,
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  >> "Right,
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  >> Jonathan, it's me, Chad." And he looked
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  at me for a [laughter] minute and you've
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  gotten so old. I have
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  [laughter]
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  >> I mean it was like nothing had changed.
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  like we were like right back in the
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  moment like 30 minutes later like he
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  remembered you know and again he wasn't
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  just my second idea on
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  >> I'll fly away he was like fluke and like
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  all of the movies in the 90s that I
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  worked on like he was our second he was
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  the core second here in Atlanta so it
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  was great to to have that full circle
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  moment with him
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  >> amazing amazing so okay I have to ask uh
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  ask your expertise on something so let's
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  say two actors audition for the same
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  role one gives an absolutely incredible
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  performance but the other just feels
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  more believable in the world of film.
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  Who has the advantage and what factors
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  would you say make that?
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  >> Oh, oh, oh, oh, this literally just
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  happened last week. [laughter] So, yeah.
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  Now, this exact this thing, same thing
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  happened. And when it comes to a
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  situation like that, I work a little
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  differently that I guess than most
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  casting directors. Like I always want
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  the director and the producers to be
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  happy with their choice.
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  >> Okay.
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  >> I never try to insert my opinion. like
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  I'm obviously I've I've whittleled down
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  the length to my core group of people
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  that I want you to consider.
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  >> Mhm.
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  >> But when we get into a callback
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  situation or whatever, like I'm going I
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  want you to have the openness of
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  choosing your own cast, right?
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  >> I know I've been in situations before
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  where the casting director is trying to
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  slam somebody down a director's throat
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  and they're like, you know, I feel like
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  let me make my own choice here. Let me
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  experiment. Let me play.
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  >> And there was a choice that was made
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  that I did not agree with. Okay.
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  >> But I could tell that like of the seven
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  people that were making a decision, five
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  of them were very clear on what they
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  wanted.
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  >> Okay.
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  >> And including the director.
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  >> And so I said, you know, and I just sat
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  there quiet. If I get quiet, you know
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  that there's something wrong. [laughter]
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  And so what we're on a Zoom and Right.
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  >> I said, "We want your opinion, Chad."
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  And I said, "I don't think you do.
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  >> I don't think you want my opinion."
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  >> I said like, "What? What are you
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  saying?" I said, "I just want you to be
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  happy with your choice." And I said,
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  "But that's" And then they finally broke
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  it down. And I just like, "Okay, here it
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  goes." And I just let him have it about
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  what I thought. And
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  >> even after they broke it down, even
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  after they broke it down, he was like,
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  "It's still,
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  >> you know, walk with it, but you know,
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  >> no." I said, you know, look, here's the
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  bottom line. You are happy with your
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  choice. You have a director who will get
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  a performance out of this person.
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  >> Peace be with you. like it's, you know,
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  if you really want my opinion, I'll give
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  it to you. But, um, also the thing, this
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  is where I was thinking about this last
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  night. You're getting when you're asking
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  for my opinion, you're not just getting
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  a casting director, you're getting an
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  actor,
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  >> you're getting writer, you're getting a
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  director, you're getting a producer. So,
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  that a lot of times people don't think
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  about, especially in casting, they don't
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  think about like, is this actor going to
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  be a pain in the ass on set,
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  >> right? because I have worked with LA
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  based casting directors where these
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  eccentric
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  weird like just bad energy people come
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  into the room in a callback situation
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  and they're like jumping stuff all over
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  the place and it's this sort of chaotic
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  nature and and like this one cast she's
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  just so interesting like no she's not
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  she's a mess and like that's not that's
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  why you're interested in her
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  >> right
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  >> I would then later that particular movie
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  I was not on the ation casting director,
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  but I was also the extra casting
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  director.
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  >> So, I was on set the entire time of the
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  shoot and they wrote this girl out of
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  the movie cuz she was such a pain. And
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  >> um pay it right off though.
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  >> I exact like again like certain people
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  they see that chaos, oh, they're so
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  interesting. It's like it's like that's
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  why we see so many times jerks continue
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  to work in Hollywood
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  >> and uh and or you know, you may know
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  people in the market that are like
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  they're just like how do they work? like
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  they're not that good of an actor, but
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  they're quirky or they're like, you
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  know, that that that sort of
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  intensity. I I I don't know. I can't
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  describe it, but it's like I've seen it.
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  I mean, I've seen it on sets before. Um,
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  and
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  uh, so again, it's like with me coming
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  in as a casting director, I'm looking
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  and also like a lot of times with with I
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  watch actors audition like at a callback
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  situation.
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  >> Mhm.
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  >> With the director and everybody, I want
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  to reach through my computer screen and
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  slap them because I'm like, why are you
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  changing the script?
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  >> Yeah.
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  >> Why are you going completely off script?
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  Because the writer is on this Zoom and
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  the writer wants to hear their words.
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  They don't want to hear your words. And
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  if it's a television show, which I did a
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  couple of TV series in Savannah,
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  >> that writer is also one of the
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  showrunners, an executive producer, you
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  know, like they want to hear their
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  words. They don't want to hear your
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  words.
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  >> Yeah.
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  >> I didn't say just have fun with it,
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  which is the key to like go off,
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  >> right? But I It's funny that you say
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  that because I'm listening to because of
• 10:41
  the fact that you've you are
• 10:44
  well-rounded in the industry. You you've
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  you've played all these different roles.
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  Does it ever I know it it advances you
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  and makes you choose the right thing and
• 10:54
  makes you do but does it ever
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  become where you become a perfectionist
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  because like we said you know it might
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  be an actor that you get you get what
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  I'm saying like
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  >> yeah no I do and I think because I've
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  like in my old age I've started to like
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  no you don't want my opinion I want you
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  to be happy like I think
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  >> I do think though like 10 years ago I
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  absolutely absolutely would have been
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  like, "No, this is the person you need."
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  That and two and there have absolutely
• 11:23
  been times when I have said this is a
• 11:26
  terrible choice. But like there was
• 11:28
  another there were two features that I
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  cast in Savannah over the summer. And
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  interestingly enough, all of my choices
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  of of the actors, like I sent them to,
• 11:38
  you know, and this was this was one of
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  the lead characters that they were going
• 11:41
  to cast out of, it was a a young
• 11:44
  >> late teens, early 20s character.
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  >> And um I I sent them all my choices. And
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  the funny thing was of the three people
• 11:52
  they brought to callbacks, two of them
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  were two of my favorite actors. One
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  played my son in a vertical and one was
• 12:00
  this kid that I found in Savannah. Okay.
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  >> And his mother is best friends with a
• 12:06
  head cheerleader from when I went to
• 12:07
  high school.
• 12:08
  >> Wow.
• 12:08
  >> And so I just finished Bridehard and
• 12:10
  Jennifer called me. She's like, "Hey, he
• 12:12
  wants to take an acting class." K's
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  like, "Oh, yeah, sure. Come on down."
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  >> And then he he he I had a group of 30
• 12:18
  people. We were reading scenes and he
• 12:19
  got up and I just turned around and
• 12:21
  went, "Okay, where have you been
• 12:23
  studying?" And he's like, "I'm I never
• 12:24
  studied before." I do not believe that.
• 12:26
  And he's one of those that he's a
• 12:29
  natural natural.
• 12:30
  >> And I was like, you need an agent right
• 12:32
  away. And so he got an agent and he
• 12:34
  booked a Lifetime movie the next week.
• 12:36
  >> Love it.
• 12:37
  >> And and he's just and he he's one of
• 12:39
  those like the second that he he
• 12:41
  somebody gave him the second that I was
• 12:42
  like, you need to get an agent. He took
• 12:44
  everything so seriously. He just moved
• 12:46
  to LA and he's taking, you know, classes
• 12:48
  classes. He's taking classes here in
• 12:49
  Atlanta. Like he did everything right.
• 12:52
  >> Wow.
• 12:52
  >> So these three options. uh that they
• 12:55
  came to and the third option, holy
• 12:57
  terror.
• 12:58
  >> Wow.
• 12:59
  >> To the point that two of the lead actors
• 13:01
  after he was officially wrapped pulled
• 13:03
  him aside and said, "You'll never work
• 13:04
  in this industry again."
• 13:05
  >> Oh my. Oh my.
• 13:06
  >> If you continue being like this on set,
• 13:08
  you'll never work again. And they were
• 13:11
  like,
• 13:12
  >> "Yeah, I mean it was bad." And like the
• 13:15
  director was like, "Yeah, we made the
• 13:16
  wrong choice there."
• 13:18
  Um
• 13:19
  um just be nice, be good, be be the
• 13:23
  person that you want. You know, again,
• 13:25
  having worked in extra casting, I'm on
• 13:27
  set, you know, an hour before crew call
• 13:29
  and working well after rap because
• 13:31
  they've changed the call time. It added
• 13:32
  60 Mongolians. So, yeah,
• 13:35
  >> you know, that's always my favorite
• 13:36
  alias story. They added all these
• 13:37
  Mongolians like after rap. Like, where
• 13:39
  am I supposed to find Mongolians at this
• 13:40
  time of the night? And um uh we uh
• 13:46
  you know I'm around that set and so when
• 13:49
  you're the actor that's pissing off
• 13:50
  wardrobe
• 13:53
  >> we are all going to hear about it right
• 13:54
  >> and we don't want to work with that
• 13:56
  person. You make the other actors
• 13:57
  uncomfortable. You make the
• 13:59
  >> crew uncomfortable. So it's just just be
• 14:01
  nice. Be somebody that you want to work
• 14:03
  with.
• 14:04
  >> I had a question about when you do the
• 14:06
  background uh casting. So, you worked on
• 14:09
  productions like Spider-Man, Scary Movie
• 14:11
  2. Now, be honest. Have you ever caught
• 14:13
  a background actor doing a little too
• 14:16
  much trying to get noticed?
• 14:18
  >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it's like I It's
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  not even that I notice it like everybody
• 14:22
  who's watching the
• 14:24
  >> the monitor can see it.
• 14:25
  >> Uhhuh. And you know, I will occasionally
• 14:27
  like I mean inevitably you're going to
• 14:29
  cast somebody that's like all right.
• 14:31
  Yeah, this one he's he's too much or
• 14:33
  like he's trying to get there was one uh
• 14:36
  a Daniel Radcliffe movie that I cast in
• 14:39
  Richmond where this one guy like he
• 14:41
  wanted in Richmond you can get you know
• 14:44
  you can join the union by getting your
• 14:45
  three SAG vouchers because it's where
• 14:48
  SAG dips in from New York.
• 14:49
  >> Okay.
• 14:50
  >> Um we have union background though
• 14:52
  Virginia is a right to work state. You
• 14:54
  don't have to join the union.
• 14:56
  >> If you have your three vouchers, you
• 14:57
  can. We had this one guy that absolutely
• 15:00
  wanted to join the like he wanted to
• 15:01
  join the union.
• 15:02
  >> Yeah.
• 15:02
  >> And um he came up from Georgia and he
• 15:07
  just kept trying to insert himself into
• 15:08
  like, "Hey, I think you should tell me,
• 15:10
  you know, ask me for the beer." And like
• 15:11
  doing all the wrong things.
• 15:14
  >> And then Daniel Radcliffe, God bless
• 15:16
  him, he didn't understand what was
• 15:18
  happening. And he's like, "Okay." And
• 15:19
  then and so then the next morning I got
• 15:21
  a phone call from SAG like you know
• 15:23
  trying to do a grievance on him that he
• 15:25
  had a line of dialogue and like but
• 15:27
  nobody told him to say that which is a
• 15:30
  you have to be instructed by the
• 15:31
  director
• 15:32
  >> right
• 15:32
  >> also you weren't miked and also it was a
• 15:34
  big punk scene like nobody could hear
• 15:37
  anything that was happening in the room
• 15:38
  anyway.
• 15:39
  >> Well you do you think they're when they
• 15:41
  do that they're trying to maybe they'll
• 15:43
  get discovered that way like you know
• 15:45
  they're trying to get a speaking role or
• 15:47
  something like that. Is that the reason
• 15:48
  why they
• 15:49
  >> And I will say this one particular actor
• 15:51
  has gone on to he's a working actor now
• 15:54
  >> but he pissed me off so bad like I like
• 15:56
  you don't send me the Facebook request
• 15:58
  like you we're not friends. [laughter]
• 16:01
  >> Not when I have to have a conversation
• 16:03
  with Melissa
• 16:05
  in the morning. No.
• 16:06
  >> Oh my gosh. Okay. Well, an actor gets a
• 16:09
  call back for a role and they get a
• 16:11
  great performance but they never hear a
• 16:13
  word back. What's some things that that
• 16:17
  can happen between a successful call
• 16:19
  back and the final casting decision?
• 16:22
  >> That's what sucks about this this and
• 16:24
  I'm trying to like reach out to
• 16:25
  everybody right like with all the agents
• 16:26
  that I was dealing with and I did have a
• 16:28
  couple of people that came through
• 16:29
  Actors Access so I haven't been able to
• 16:31
  message them. Uh, but like
• 16:34
  the agents that that I was dealing with,
• 16:36
  I was like I was t I was giving them a
• 16:37
  playby-play of like what was happening
• 16:39
  because it was, you know, when you were
• 16:41
  when you're doing something that's a
• 16:42
  lowbudget project and and you've got
• 16:44
  these actors that are auditioning a lot
• 16:46
  like you you want to keep them engaged,
• 16:49
  you don't want them going off and doing
• 16:50
  another project. I was trying to give
• 16:52
  them all the feedback that I could as
• 16:54
  like, you know, they're great, you know,
• 16:56
  or it's not going to go their way. So,
• 16:59
  right. Um, but at the same time, it's
• 17:01
  like, and it's so true, and no actor
• 17:04
  wants to hear it. If you're continuing
• 17:06
  to get auditions from a casting
• 17:08
  director, that's the win. Also,
• 17:11
  conversely,
• 17:13
  if you're getting a bunch of auditions
• 17:14
  from a cast, if you're starting out
• 17:16
  starting off as as an actor and you're
• 17:18
  getting a whole bunch of auditions from
• 17:19
  a casting director, uh, like example, in
• 17:22
  Savannah, I had to grow that market by
• 17:25
  my hand.
• 17:26
  >> Yeah. because we didn't have an agent in
• 17:29
  Savannah. So 10 years ago when the
• 17:32
  Savannah film office asked me to move to
• 17:34
  Savannah and help grow the market, this
• 17:35
  was after Magic Mike because I couldn't
• 17:36
  cast a single person.
• 17:38
  >> Nobody was really trained. And then also
• 17:40
  there was this so nervous about my
• 17:43
  audition today on Twitter. And it's
• 17:44
  like, baby, if you're nervous in front
• 17:46
  of me, you you're never going to toe
• 17:48
  with Shannon Tatum,
• 17:48
  >> right?
• 17:49
  >> And so I just I had a market and it was
• 17:51
  again, it was a very young market. All
• 17:53
  of Georgia was a young market at that
• 17:54
  point because we had just gotten the tax
• 17:57
  incentives. Um the I don't know if
• 17:59
  you've had this conversation with
• 18:00
  anybody yet. The conversation you need
• 18:02
  to have if you haven't had it with
• 18:04
  Brenda Paulie, Rebecca Shreger, Joy
• 18:06
  Pervvis. I'm dying to I want to do one
• 18:08
  myself. I want to know
• 18:11
  how they've seen the market grow from
• 18:13
  80s and 90s to where like every actor
• 18:15
  was with signed with every single agent
• 18:17
  in town.
• 18:18
  >> Yeah.
• 18:19
  >> Until, you know, now we are an exclusive
• 18:21
  market. But back in that day, the number
• 18:24
  of talent that we had is now a tenth of
• 18:27
  what we had.
• 18:28
  >> We had it. Yeah.
• 18:29
  >> And so like everybody, you know, once
• 18:31
  everything started blowing up, it was
• 18:32
  like, well, I want to be an actor. I
• 18:33
  want to talk on film. And uh so people
• 18:36
  did start taking classes and you know,
• 18:38
  agents started signing people. So there
• 18:40
  was those first couple of years, you're
• 18:41
  going through tapes, you're like, "God,
• 18:43
  these people are terrible." Because they
• 18:44
  hadn't trained.
• 18:46
  >> And uh and in Savannah, that was
• 18:48
  happening. So like I you know they and I
• 18:51
  I tell this to their faces you know like
• 18:53
  I like you were terrible.
• 18:55
  >> Mhm.
• 18:56
  >> But it took me four years of sending you
• 18:58
  auditions and that's why you're booking
• 18:59
  a lot now.
• 19:01
  >> Right. Right. Good point. Yeah.
• 19:04
  >> We had to do classes. We had to like
• 19:06
  have you looking at your self tape. We
• 19:07
  had to like show you how this self tape
• 19:10
  is not working. You're not connecting to
• 19:12
  your reader. You're not invested. What
• 19:13
  do you want in this scene? And so
• 19:17
  it should not, you know, it's not fair
• 19:18
  that you have to grow a market that, you
• 19:20
  know, in or but but as a member of the
• 19:23
  Savannah Film Alliance, I'm I'm very
• 19:25
  invested in Savannah. We need to have
• 19:28
  the work going there. And when the work
• 19:30
  goes there, they need to be able to cast
• 19:32
  locals.
• 19:33
  >> Otherwise, they're adding housing
• 19:35
  mileage and pdeium to bring an actor in
• 19:37
  from Atlanta,
• 19:38
  >> right?
• 19:38
  >> And we have tax incentives for hiring
• 19:40
  local cast. And so now
• 19:44
  >> with the past few films that I did down
• 19:46
  in Savannah this year, we're casting
• 19:48
  predominantly all Savannah actors
• 19:51
  >> or or you know, we all know the game
• 19:52
  like can work local in Savannah,
• 19:54
  >> right?
• 19:54
  >> Um and which is a whole other
• 19:56
  conversation, but like the Casey Affleck
• 19:58
  movie that I cast, company, everybody
• 20:00
  was from Savannah
• 20:02
  >> and um Brian a lot all of the all of the
• 20:06
  everybody that I cast was from Savannah.
• 20:08
  >> Yeah. And so, um, it was it's
• 20:12
  interesting to watch the market grow
• 20:14
  since Magic Mike to now,
• 20:17
  >> uh, with these actors. But again, back
• 20:19
  to the auditions, it's like if you're
• 20:21
  getting the auditions, that's the win.
• 20:23
  >> And yet, I see so many actors like this
• 20:26
  is the 12th time that I've auditioned
• 20:28
  for the Finn Canons and I haven't booked
• 20:30
  him. Like, baby, do you know how many
• 20:32
  actors there are that are reading for
• 20:34
  this role? And
• 20:34
  >> they didn't have to call you at all.
• 20:36
  Right.
• 20:37
  >> Exactly. [laughter]
• 20:39
  Do you know what the odds are of you
• 20:41
  booking a one of the 12? I mean, it's
• 20:44
  like
• 20:44
  >> Yeah, they may be just waiting for you
• 20:47
  to get that that particular role that
• 20:49
  you're right for that particular role.
• 20:51
  So, just just keep going with it. If if
• 20:54
  they call me 12 times, keep it, you
• 20:56
  know, keep it going, keep it coming, you
• 20:58
  know.
• 20:59
  >> And it's I always love the auditions and
• 21:01
  I've I've noticed this thing as I get
• 21:03
  older, there are fewer of me, which is
• 21:05
  great.
• 21:06
  >> Yeah. there there's few you know as you
• 21:08
  get older there are fewer actors also as
• 21:11
  you get older the roles become more
• 21:14
  interesting so um for me as an actor
• 21:17
  it's been a lot of fun like I'll get
• 21:18
  these auditions I'm like they are never
• 21:20
  going to cast me as this
• 21:22
  >> and so I'm like but you know you have
• 21:24
  that the the you're allowed 10 seconds
• 21:27
  to be like come on
• 21:29
  >> and then you're like great let's do it
• 21:30
  let's play
• 21:31
  >> and you make your biggest swing and I
• 21:33
  found now that the roles that I think
• 21:35
  I'm never going to book are the ones I
• 21:36
  end up booking
• 21:37
  >> like I
• 21:38
  >> I'm sorry I didn't mean the interc Go
• 21:40
  ahead.
• 21:40
  >> No, there's there's a a Lifetime movie.
• 21:42
  It's the first Lifetime where I had a
• 21:43
  lead. It's called Secrets of a Small
• 21:45
  Georgia Town that comes out in two weeks
• 21:47
  and um it was a role of a sheriff and
• 21:50
  I'm like they are never going to hire me
• 21:51
  as a do I look like a sheriff and uh in
• 21:54
  a small town and so um I was like this
• 21:58
  is a terrible terrible casting choice.
• 22:00
  And I was on set when my agent Jason
• 22:03
  Lockheart uh who had a really good I I
• 22:06
  loved his podcast with you.
• 22:07
  >> Hey Jason.
• 22:08
  >> So good. So good. Um
• 22:12
  uh he Oh, and there was a there was
• 22:14
  something he talked about about
• 22:15
  Momentum. We've got to circle back to
• 22:17
  that later. I love what he said about
• 22:18
  Momentum.
• 22:19
  >> Um
• 22:21
  uh I was on set and he's like, "You
• 22:23
  booked Secrets of a Small Town." I was
• 22:25
  like, "Oh, the husband." And he's like,
• 22:26
  "No, the sheriff." And I was like And
• 22:28
  I'm just about to go on. I was on the
• 22:29
  comeback king in Savannah. Okay.
• 22:31
  >> Like they're ready for you. I'm like
• 22:33
  >> that can't be right. Call call him back.
• 22:35
  And that can't be right. I'll I'll call
• 22:37
  you back. So I go back in do the same.
• 22:38
  Come back. Like no it was a sheriff. I'm
• 22:39
  like what are they doing at Lifetime? It
• 22:42
  was the most fun I've ever had because
• 22:44
  it was like they let me go completely
• 22:47
  into a I mean we built that character
• 22:49
  from the ground up.
• 22:50
  >> But Ken Sanders and Christine Conrad
• 22:52
  who's the director they like no we've
• 22:54
  been watching you for years. And I have
• 22:56
  like I've been auditioning for years. We
• 22:58
  knew that we were going to find the
• 22:59
  right role and it was just in the
• 23:01
  audition of of doing the role
• 23:03
  >> that making him cold and calculated and
• 23:06
  and they actually ended up changing the
• 23:08
  race of other characters in the in the
• 23:10
  movie. And so
• 23:11
  >> it's it's really it was it was the most
• 23:13
  fun I've ever
• 23:15
  >> and we it never felt like we were
• 23:16
  shooting a Lifetime movie. Yeah.
• 23:18
  >> It felt like we were shooting this
• 23:19
  really cool southern gothic indie. And
• 23:22
  so I can't wait to see it when it comes
• 23:23
  out because it's everybody's awful in
• 23:25
  the movie. It's it's so good. [laughter]
• 23:26
  Such a fun script. It's such
• 23:28
  >> I thought I was going to flip it because
• 23:31
  you were talking about how you you
• 23:32
  auditioned for this part and then you
• 23:34
  got, you know, you got another part. So,
• 23:37
  if you're the casting director,
• 23:39
  >> have you ever had an actor come in for
• 23:41
  one character and realized they were
• 23:42
  completely wrong for that, you know,
• 23:44
  wrong for that part, but absolutely
• 23:46
  perfect for another? So,
• 23:48
  >> Oh, yeah.
• 23:49
  >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's
• 23:51
  happened. I mean, I would say that
• 23:52
  happens every every uh every time a
• 23:55
  script goes out, sides go out and um I
• 23:58
  and what's crazy is like you you
• 24:00
  audition the actor for a very small role
• 24:02
  and you're like, "Oh, no, read this." On
• 24:04
  Road Trip, you know, DJ Kalls came in.
• 24:07
  He read it for like a band geek. It was
• 24:10
  like one line.
• 24:11
  >> Okay.
• 24:11
  >> And in the room, uh they gave him the
• 24:14
  sides for the character that he played
• 24:15
  and that was it blew him up. He was one
• 24:17
  of the four kids.
• 24:18
  >> Wow. And um uh then that was the first
• 24:22
  time I ever saw it like in the room. And
• 24:25
  um but yeah, no, it's it happens all the
• 24:27
  time. And also like not for nothing uh
• 24:30
  on this uh this vertical that I just
• 24:33
  finished casting, we have this actor
• 24:34
  who's he's now number two on the call
• 24:36
  sheet, but uh one of the role and he I
• 24:39
  think he had read for several different
• 24:41
  roles, but I he said, "Oh, I can play
• 24:43
  the guitar, too. Can do you think Chad
• 24:44
  would let me audition for that?" And and
• 24:46
  Kelly emailed me. I'm like, "Yeah, sure.
• 24:48
  send him the sides and he was absolutely
• 24:49
  my my first choice for that and then in
• 24:53
  call back he became you know number two.
• 24:55
  So it's
• 24:55
  >> nice
• 24:56
  >> uh it was fun like yeah like if if
• 24:59
  especially a spe a specific skill like
• 25:02
  that if you don't call in but you see
• 25:03
  the breakdown absolutely alert your
• 25:05
  agent because apparently nobody can play
• 25:07
  guitar in Georgia.
• 25:08
  >> Um
• 25:10
  four pe I sent I sent the audition to 30
• 25:12
  people.
• 25:14
  >> Three people sent the audition back.
• 25:16
  >> Wow. Wow.
• 25:18
  And one of them didn't even do the
• 25:19
  guitar playing and the other. So then
• 25:21
  one booked number two and the other one
• 25:24
  is the guy who plays the guitar and
• 25:25
  they're both like really good actors.
• 25:27
  It's not like well that was all we could
• 25:28
  do. I mean they're both really really
• 25:29
  good. But it was just crazy. That's how
• 25:31
  the numbers fell.
• 25:32
  >> That's how it work. Wow. Okay. So here's
• 25:34
  something actors don't always think
• 25:36
  about. Let's say an actor books a role
• 25:38
  but discovers the script has changed
• 25:40
  significantly and and now they're
• 25:42
  uncomfortable with something they're
• 25:44
  being asked to do. How should they
• 25:46
  handle that conversation without
• 25:48
  damaging their, you know, professional
• 25:50
  relationship?
• 25:51
  >> Well, first off, that's bad. I mean, I
• 25:54
  they don't have to worry because if it's
• 25:56
  something like nudity, sex, vi, you
• 25:58
  know, like something that's massively
• 25:59
  different from the script,
• 26:01
  >> uh, absolutely have the conversation
• 26:03
  with your agent. Have your agent call
• 26:04
  the casting director. Full stop. And I'm
• 26:07
  aware that like
• 26:09
  when everybody submitted this kiss
• 26:11
  wasn't in the script and now it is that
• 26:14
  people are gonna you know and again you
• 26:16
  just you you go to your producers and
• 26:18
  like okay this person's no longer a
• 26:20
  viable option for us because they're
• 26:21
  uncomfortable doing this. I've had an
• 26:24
  you know once a year I get the person
• 26:26
  it's like I'm not kissing another person
• 26:28
  because of my partner. Um and you know
• 26:32
  that happens all the time. um
• 26:36
  or or there's like an intimate scene
• 26:38
  that's suddenly what looks like on paper
• 26:41
  is a little more different than what
• 26:43
  they want to do, right?
• 26:44
  >> So, it's just having that that
• 26:45
  conversation. But I always whenever I
• 26:46
  get a situation like that where I see
• 26:48
  that it's been changed, I immediately
• 26:50
  jump on it with the
• 26:51
  >> agents and be like, "Heads up. This is
• 26:53
  what's happening now." And I understand
• 26:55
  that they want to withdraw, but this is
• 26:57
  what's happening now.
• 26:58
  >> Yeah. Yeah. Now, you talked about um
• 27:01
  finding fulfillment in acting and your
• 27:03
  writing and directing, but also helping
• 27:05
  actors get through the door. So, can you
• 27:08
  remember an actor whose career you
• 27:10
  helped move forward who made you feel
• 27:12
  like you just won an Oscar?
• 27:15
  Well, the the one story Joy Pervvis back
• 27:18
  in the day, she represented Dakota
• 27:20
  Fanning and I was like one of Dakota's
• 27:22
  very first not that I held the door open
• 27:24
  for Dakota Fanning. Uh not but I was I
• 27:28
  loved the story that she came in Shay I
• 27:29
  was working with Shay Griffin at the
• 27:30
  time and she came in and this was like a
• 27:32
  three-year-old going on 30. I mean she
• 27:34
  Steve Barnes who you know was with 99X
• 27:37
  and this incredible theater actress
• 27:38
  Jennifer Crumbley. This was this was 30
• 27:41
  plus years ago and I can remember it
• 27:42
  like it was yesterday. uh just watch
• 27:44
  like I remember calling Joy afterwards
• 27:46
  and I'm like this kid's going to be a
• 27:48
  superstar and like a year later she was.
• 27:50
  >> Yeah.
• 27:50
  >> And um I apparently I was one of the
• 27:54
  first people to hire Kristen Wig as an
• 27:56
  extra on Judging Amy and Kelly Clarkson.
• 27:59
  Um
• 27:59
  >> love her.
• 28:01
  >> Yeah. Who did I
• 28:05
  No, you know, I think just in general,
• 28:07
  like whenever you get to cast an actor
• 28:09
  in like one of their first roles, like I
• 28:11
  remember casting Jessica Meisel, who's a
• 28:13
  very dear friend of mine, in one of her
• 28:15
  first roles and then she went on to do
• 28:16
  The Purge and then she did, you know,
• 28:18
  she was recurring on The Resident all
• 28:20
  all seasons.
• 28:22
  um you know when you get to find that
• 28:25
  like oh you're a really good actor and
• 28:26
  you get to put them in their first thing
• 28:28
  and then they kind of blow up or you
• 28:30
  know their career you know they just
• 28:31
  start booking more and they're they're
• 28:33
  able to make a living doing what they
• 28:34
  love. That's what I love.
• 28:36
  >> Yeah. Yeah. Love it. Now we get to do
• 28:39
  something fun. We get to play a game
• 28:42
  called yes, no, or it depends.
• 28:44
  >> Okay.
• 28:45
  >> I ask you a question. You can't think
• 28:47
  about it too hard because I want an
• 28:49
  honest answer. So, you have to answer
• 28:51
  yes, no, or it depends. And you can
• 28:53
  explain why if you'd like to.
• 28:54
  >> Great. Okay.
• 28:55
  >> Okay. First question. An actor turns
• 28:58
  down a small role on a major television
• 29:00
  show because they're holding out for
• 29:02
  something bigger. Smart career move.
• 29:05
  >> No,
• 29:06
  not at all. I mean, it's and Jason kind
• 29:10
  of spoke to this as well and and like
• 29:12
  gone are the days of and I have friends
• 29:16
  that are like this that it's like, "Oh,
• 29:18
  I'm not doing any more co-star roles."
• 29:21
  Baby, did you know that co-star is now
• 29:22
  recurring
• 29:24
  >> and um you know, it's or like your one
• 29:27
  line in this episode begets, you know, a
• 29:30
  whole other thing in the next thing. I
• 29:32
  I'm recurring on Tulsa King this season
• 29:34
  and it was a nice scene. like it was a
• 29:36
  three-page scene initially, but we were
• 29:39
  still, you know, booked as co-stars
• 29:41
  in in in this market. Um, and I grateful
• 29:44
  for it. I mean, grateful, so grateful to
• 29:46
  have it. And then it was like, oh, and
• 29:47
  it's recurring. You're coming back. And
• 29:49
  then when I got to set that first day,
• 29:50
  they were like, have you seen the next
• 29:51
  script? And I was like, no. And all day
• 29:54
  long, every have you not seen the next
• 29:55
  script? I was like, why does everybody
• 29:57
  keep saying that? At one point, Martin
• 29:58
  Star said, oh, it's big. It's a lot. And
• 30:00
  I was like, what do they mean? It was 10
• 30:03
  pages of dialogue. Wow. And it was with
• 30:06
  me and the entire cast except for
• 30:07
  Stallone. And so like again, that was a
• 30:10
  co-star role that a lot of time actors
• 30:13
  don't look at,
• 30:14
  >> you know, they're like, "Oh, I I don't
• 30:16
  do co-stars anymore." They'll they'll
• 30:17
  have these conversations with their
• 30:18
  agents and if the agency's co-star,
• 30:20
  they're not going to submit them. And
• 30:22
  you know, I'm only guest star. I'm only
• 30:24
  this. And we all know, we've all I mean,
• 30:26
  we've all had this conversation about
• 30:27
  the the Academy Award winners and now
• 30:30
  the recurrings and the blah blah blah.
• 30:31
  You know, it all filters down. And I
• 30:33
  just think it's a terrible career move
• 30:35
  to turn anything down. I mean,
• 30:36
  obviously, if you don't want to do
• 30:37
  non-union verticals, don't do that. But
• 30:40
  if you're in the television and film
• 30:43
  world here in Atlanta and you get an
• 30:46
  audition for a feature film and it's
• 30:48
  only a couple of lines,
• 30:50
  that's residuals for the rest of your
• 30:52
  life. Like there's all the things that
• 30:54
  you and and you're working. And I do
• 30:56
  believe that work begets work. And back
• 30:58
  to that momentum thing. Yeah, you may
• 31:00
  not use the momentum of your two lines
• 31:02
  in animals, but um it keeps you fresh
• 31:06
  and casting remembers you because they
• 31:08
  just booked you
• 31:09
  >> and then you know you can't say, "Oh,
• 31:11
  they just booked a role in animals." And
• 31:12
  so like it does create
• 31:15
  >> a momentum.
• 31:16
  >> That's right. That's right. All right.
• 31:18
  So an actor recognizes you in the
• 31:20
  grocery store and they start performing
• 31:22
  a monologue in a produce aisle.
• 31:25
  >> Would you watch it?
• 31:27
  >> No. No. You you had me at an actor sees
• 31:30
  you in in the grocery aisle. No. Uh
• 31:34
  because here's the here's the problem. I
• 31:36
  have a problem. Okay.
• 31:37
  >> My vision is terrible.
• 31:39
  >> I'm I'm reach I've reached that age
• 31:40
  where I can only like if I'm out in
• 31:42
  public, I only have one contact lens. So
• 31:44
  if I'm in a grocery store and you're
• 31:45
  looking at me and I'm just staring
• 31:47
  straight ahead, you may think I'm
• 31:49
  dissing you. I can't see past the order.
• 31:51
  And so like it's
• 31:53
  >> number one, I can't see anything. Number
• 31:55
  two, actors always think that we
• 31:58
  remember them and we see hundreds of
• 32:01
  people per project and that's just the
• 32:04
  one project and it is a lot of mind dump
• 32:06
  except you know obviously the good
• 32:08
  actors you remember their auditions or
• 32:10
  or like when you see the tape when you
• 32:12
  see them in the screen like oh yeah I
• 32:14
  remember I remember them when they did
• 32:16
  this I can remember everything about
• 32:17
  that but when we're out in the wild we
• 32:19
  don't know if we went to school with you
• 32:20
  or if you auditioned for the last movie
• 32:22
  that I was working on or a movie 10
• 32:24
  years ago
• 32:26
  >> and never start off a conversation like
• 32:28
  you don't remember me, do you? It's like
• 32:29
  I can promise you I don't.
• 32:32
  >> He's so funny.
• 32:35
  No, I I really don't. [laughter]
• 32:39
  >> Okay. Okay. Okay. An actor has no agent,
• 32:42
  but their audition is stronger than
• 32:43
  everyone represented by a major agency.
• 32:46
  Can they still win the role?
• 32:48
  >> Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely.
• 32:51
  Absolutely. Absolutely. And and in fact,
• 32:53
  I really push for those kind of actors
• 32:55
  because I know that that's going to be
• 32:56
  the thing that could get them this role.
• 32:57
  This thing that I'm casting right now.
• 32:59
  Three of our guys are not represented.
• 33:02
  They all submitted through Actors Access
• 33:03
  and uh and they, you know, they don't
• 33:05
  have an agent and I'm hoping that this
• 33:08
  is one of the because they work a lot.
• 33:09
  I'm hoping that this booking helps them
• 33:11
  get an agent because they are good. You
• 33:14
  know, obviously you're good enough to go
• 33:15
  into a callback situation. You have
• 33:17
  seven people fighting over you. you
• 33:19
  know, yeah, you should be able to have
• 33:20
  your two lines or, you know, whatever it
• 33:22
  is. But they're booking like major roles
• 33:24
  in these verticals.
• 33:26
  >> And again, verticals are such a great
• 33:28
  training. Verticals. I did verticals for
• 33:30
  about
• 33:31
  >> pretty intensively for seven months. And
• 33:33
  it train it made me such a better actor
• 33:36
  just in those seven months than any
• 33:37
  class I could have taken. Yeah.
• 33:39
  >> Because when you're having to do 15 20
• 33:41
  pages of dialogue a day and hit it and
• 33:42
  have like one or two takes at max.
• 33:44
  >> Oh yeah.
• 33:46
  I mean, it reshapes your brain because
• 33:49
  so many times we're used to doing
• 33:50
  auditions where it's like you got your,
• 33:53
  you know, your your three lines of
• 33:54
  dialogue and you're going to go in,
• 33:56
  you're going to knock it out and walk
• 33:58
  away from it and then on the day you get
• 34:00
  to set and you meet everybody and then
• 34:01
  you do your three lines and that's it.
• 34:03
  But when you're doing a vertical or
• 34:04
  you're doing a Lifetime movie, oh Lif
• 34:06
  Lifetime, don't play.
• 34:07
  >> Wow. I mean, the first one that I did
• 34:10
  with playing the sheriff,
• 34:11
  >> Kenja and I, we had heavy heavy we shot
• 34:14
  the entire thing, I think, in nine nine
• 34:16
  or 10 days
• 34:17
  >> and we were shooting a feature film,
• 34:19
  >> like aund 100 plus page script a day.
• 34:22
  Yeah.
• 34:22
  >> And and it's very dialogue intensive
• 34:25
  heavy and and you're having to hit all
• 34:27
  of these emotional because it's not an
• 34:28
  easy movie, you know? like
• 34:30
  >> all of the arcs that everybody's going
• 34:32
  on, like you have to plot those things
• 34:34
  and and we had like really all of the
• 34:36
  cast, we had like really great
• 34:37
  conversations about where we were, where
• 34:40
  our characters were in the story because
• 34:42
  it again, it really did feel like a
• 34:44
  southern gothic indie.
• 34:45
  >> Um, and
• 34:49
  never, you know, it's those those kind
• 34:52
  of training grounds are so invaluable.
• 34:54
  It's like getting paid to go to class.
• 34:57
  >> Love that. Love that. And and and I
• 34:59
  think it I think it was Jason that was
• 35:01
  talk that talked about that as well,
• 35:03
  right? That about the whole vertical
• 35:05
  thing because I well it it would have
• 35:07
  had to been Jason, but yeah. And um I
• 35:10
  was saying how you get to play roles
• 35:15
  that you probably wouldn't have played
• 35:18
  before.
• 35:19
  >> Absolutely.
• 35:20
  >> So at least it gives you that
• 35:21
  experience, you know.
• 35:22
  >> Abs uh I played a Russian father,
• 35:26
  Russian mob boss. I mean, come on. It's
• 35:28
  Did I win an Oscar? I did not. However,
• 35:31
  that having that experience and I have I
• 35:34
  have an accent coach that I work with
• 35:35
  whenever I do accents. But having had
• 35:38
  that, I booked another job where I had
• 35:40
  to have an accent and that was a big
• 35:42
  feature film. So, it's like again, it's
• 35:44
  the training. This this this one job
• 35:46
  will be the next one.
• 35:47
  >> That's right. That's right. Okay. So, an
• 35:50
  actor who played a dead body in season
• 35:52
  one of a TV series auditions for a
• 35:55
  speaking role in season three. H. Well,
• 35:59
  well, you know that I did this.
• 36:01
  [laughter]
• 36:03
  >> I was the extras casting director on
• 36:05
  Crossing Jordan for all six seasons.
• 36:07
  >> Oh, wow.
• 36:07
  >> So, I cast all the dead bodies.
• 36:10
  [laughter]
• 36:11
  >> I have photos somewhere of like all the
• 36:13
  Oh my god. I had a phone that had it was
• 36:16
  just a phone that I had pictures of all
• 36:18
  the dead bodies.
• 36:20
  >> Wow.
• 36:21
  >> And it got stolen in Italy when I did
• 36:23
  the Florence Marathon. So, somebody had
• 36:25
  got my camera and popped it open and
• 36:27
  just sees like dozens and dozens of
• 36:30
  >> dead bodies.
• 36:31
  >> Dead bodies and me smiling with dead
• 36:33
  bodies.
• 36:33
  >> Right. Right.
• 36:34
  >> I love that. I love that for them.
• 36:36
  >> Oh my god.
• 36:37
  >> Um Well, so here's the situation.
• 36:39
  >> Yeah.
• 36:39
  >> It specifically to a show like Crossing
• 36:41
  Jordan, if you are playing a dead body,
• 36:44
  you're not coming back on that show.
• 36:46
  >> Um because there's just no way. However,
• 36:50
  and I I promise you that I will say this
• 36:53
  and there for every for me that five
• 36:56
  people will come out against me and be
• 36:57
  like, "He doesn't know what he's talking
• 36:59
  about." Even though I've been doing it
• 37:00
  longer than they've been alive.
• 37:02
  >> If you're playing a if you're an extra
• 37:03
  playing a nurse on the resident or
• 37:06
  you're playing a doctor uh or a lawyer
• 37:09
  in the back room on Reasonable Doubt,
• 37:12
  why wouldn't they bring you in to play
• 37:13
  to read a lawyer? Why wouldn't they
• 37:15
  bring you in to read a nurse?
• 37:16
  >> Yeah. April Webster on Alias. Uh she was
• 37:19
  the lead, you know, legendary April
• 37:21
  Webster. She was the lead casting
• 37:22
  director on Alias. Um and then we
• 37:26
  my their names escape me. They they were
• 37:28
  legendary NBC casting directors uh that
• 37:31
  did Crossing Jordan. They all of our
• 37:33
  producers were o and directors were open
• 37:36
  to reading our background for like the
• 37:39
  day player like clerk, you know, that
• 37:41
  somebody come in like present a a thing.
• 37:45
  but also because it was our core group
• 37:47
  of background. They're all union.
• 37:49
  They're all working actors. They're all
• 37:50
  card carrying SAG membersh.
• 37:52
  >> Um they all would set themselves. They
• 37:54
  all grab their own props when they would
• 37:56
  go in. It was the easiest set to ever
• 37:57
  work on. They've been on the show for
• 37:58
  six years. They got, you know, some of
• 38:01
  the writers would get friendly with the
• 38:02
  the background and be like, I want I
• 38:04
  want to write this role for Vicki. It's
• 38:06
  like, I'm going to give Vicki some
• 38:07
  lines.
• 38:08
  >> Yeah. So, I I I can't tell you how many
• 38:11
  times Mercy Street, every everything
• 38:14
  that I've worked on, there's been a
• 38:15
  moment where it's like, "We're going to
• 38:16
  upgrade this person to a principal
• 38:18
  role."
• 38:19
  >> Mhm.
• 38:19
  >> And like on Mercy Street was a military
• 38:22
  Civil War hospital. Okay.
• 38:23
  >> I know we must have upgraded 10
• 38:25
  different people season one just from
• 38:28
  the hospital.
• 38:29
  >> Yeah. And what they would do is they'd
• 38:31
  have me come in and I would work with
• 38:34
  the, you know, I'd give them I give the
• 38:35
  actor the the lines of dialogue and then
• 38:38
  I'd be, "What do you think the character
• 38:39
  wants in this scene? What do you think
• 38:40
  he wants?" And then come to find out
• 38:42
  that Josh Rner and Mary Elizabeth
• 38:44
  Winstead, they called it background
• 38:46
  theater. I had no idea this was
• 38:47
  happening until season two. Josh
• 38:49
  recommended me for the film Permanent
• 38:51
  because he said, "I always loved
• 38:53
  watching you work with actors." I'm
• 38:54
  like, I had
• 38:55
  >> I had no idea you were even watching me.
• 38:57
  He's like, "Oh, no." would tell the ads
• 38:58
  if they were ever going to upgrade like
• 39:00
  grab us so we could watch from the
• 39:01
  corner.
• 39:02
  >> Yeah.
• 39:02
  >> And
• 39:03
  >> so um
• 39:05
  >> there's so many opportunities in
• 39:07
  background if if you again don't be
• 39:09
  crazy. Just get to know the the PAs and
• 39:12
  the ads and do your job.
• 39:15
  >> Be present.
• 39:16
  >> Yeah. Yeah.
• 39:17
  >> And Yeah.
• 39:18
  >> Awesome. Now just two more. An actor
• 39:21
  books a role but their scene get cut it
• 39:23
  gets cut from the film. Should they
• 39:26
  still list the credits on their resume?
• 39:28
  >> I think they should. I think they should
• 39:30
  because they still shot that scene.
• 39:33
  >> I'm sure their agents and SAG might say
• 39:35
  differently, [laughter] but uh
• 39:39
  but I think they should
• 39:42
  and I think I've seen it before was like
• 39:44
  seen cut um as well.
• 39:46
  >> Yeah. But never I mean obviously you
• 39:48
  know the big thing there is don't put
• 39:51
  stuff on your resume that makes it sound
• 39:53
  like it's a principal part when you know
• 39:55
  man on bike was a background role
• 39:59
  >> you know obviously call that background
• 40:01
  right
• 40:01
  >> you know
• 40:02
  >> and and again like I always have people
• 40:04
  come out against me like no you should
• 40:07
  never put background on your resume well
• 40:08
  if you have nothing on your resume then
• 40:10
  absolutely put background on your resume
• 40:13
  it tells me that you've been on set
• 40:14
  before it tells me you've taken
• 40:15
  direction before.
• 40:16
  >> Yeah.
• 40:17
  >> And again, these smaller markets like
• 40:18
  Richmond, Birmingham, like just knowing
• 40:20
  that you have like four little roles of
• 40:22
  background and then I see that you're
• 40:23
  also training like I'm going to take you
• 40:26
  more seriously when you send your
• 40:27
  headshot resume to me
• 40:29
  >> than someone who doesn't.
• 40:31
  >> Right. Right. Got it. Now, last one. An
• 40:34
  actor gets rejected years ago but
• 40:37
  becomes a huge star
• 40:40
  that you rejected. Would you ever admit
• 40:43
  you got that one wrong?
• 40:44
  >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, abs. And I have
• 40:46
  [laughter] Yeah.
• 40:49
  But the funny thing, um, there was an
• 40:52
  actor on Spider-Man that, uh, he was
• 40:54
  just a background person, but, he was
• 40:55
  like one of Flash Thompson's,
• 40:58
  uh, best friends. So, like he's he's
• 41:01
  around him a lot in the movie. This this
• 41:04
  guy, he he was trying to like hold us
• 41:06
  hostage like towards the end of the
• 41:07
  shoot that he wanted dialogue. He was
• 41:08
  like, I'm a and he had his agent
• 41:10
  managers like, you can't finish the film
• 41:12
  without him. Like, who do you think
• 41:13
  you're talking to? like we can
• 41:16
  absolutely cut him from the film.
• 41:19
  >> Right. Right.
• 41:20
  >> He's he's background and um uh and
• 41:26
  that was not the answer to your
• 41:27
  question, but yeah, as far as like I've
• 41:29
  I always admit when I'm wrong about
• 41:32
  actors. Um
• 41:35
  and I've and it's but I will say like I
• 41:38
  don't feel like I've ever had an actor
• 41:43
  No, you here. Well, no. Here's what I
• 41:44
  would say because I've absolutely seen
• 41:46
  this before.
• 41:47
  >> Okay,
• 41:47
  >> you're terrible in 2010 and then
• 41:50
  suddenly you're Merryill Streep in 2026,
• 41:52
  [laughter]
• 41:54
  >> right?
• 41:55
  >> No one
• 41:56
  >> no one will sing your praises higher
• 41:57
  than me.
• 41:59
  >> I to the embarrassment of of the talent,
• 42:01
  too, because they're like, could you
• 42:02
  stop talking about that because it's
• 42:04
  you're making me feel bad. Um, my old
• 42:06
  roommate in LA,
• 42:08
  >> I tell the story all the time, his name
• 42:09
  is Linkhand. Link and I were roommates
• 42:11
  for 16 years in LA. Um, and when I met
• 42:15
  him at a film festival in Alabama, his
• 42:17
  mother is a actress and she said, "You
• 42:20
  know, Link's moving to LA. He's looking
• 42:22
  for a roommate." And I was looking for a
• 42:23
  roommate and but I only needed the
• 42:26
  roommate for like 6 months and then I
• 42:28
  would be able to afford the place by
• 42:29
  myself.
• 42:30
  >> Okay.
• 42:30
  >> And he's like, I said to you, "What are
• 42:31
  you going to do in LA?" He's like, "I'm
• 42:32
  going to be an actor. I was a football
• 42:34
  player, but I had an injury." I'm like,
• 42:35
  "Oh, you're one of those."
• 42:36
  >> I'm like, "Yeah, absolutely."
• 42:38
  Super nice. Never had a fight 16 years
• 42:40
  that we lived together. Mhm.
• 42:42
  >> Um very first like he started taking
• 42:44
  classes with Howard Fine and uh and
• 42:47
  Larry Moss and uh he was taking
• 42:49
  everything seriously, but like very
• 42:51
  early on he came in. He's like, "Hey,
• 42:52
  can I borrow a VHS tape?" And I was
• 42:54
  like, "Sure." And uh he goes and takes
• 42:57
  the tape and and he's walking back
• 42:58
  towards his bedroom. I was like,
• 43:00
  >> "What are you doing?" And uh he just
• 43:03
  something like like something's not
• 43:04
  right here. Yeah. Yeah. And he said,
• 43:06
  "Well, I got to do a monologue tomorrow
• 43:08
  in class, and I was just going to tape
• 43:10
  something off TV so I could recite it
• 43:11
  back." And I sat there. I said,
• 43:15
  "Or you could go to this place called a
• 43:17
  bookstore and buy and they're all
• 43:19
  written for you." [laughter]
• 43:21
  They do that. And I tell the story all
• 43:22
  the time. And now he's like recurring on
• 43:24
  NC, you know, NCIS. Like he's he's he
• 43:27
  was Fitz Ostri in 42. Like I mean, he's
• 43:30
  done he's got a massive resume. He's a
• 43:33
  super talented actor. He put all the
• 43:36
  work in.
• 43:37
  >> Yeah.
• 43:38
  >> But I love making fun of him for that.
• 43:40
  I'm about do
• 43:41
  >> hilarious. [laughter]
• 43:44
  >> Now everybody's going to run to the TV
• 43:46
  run to and get scripts off the TV set.
• 43:49
  [laughter]
• 43:49
  >> Yeah. Recite it back. Uh but again, like
• 43:52
  he's an actor that like I thought this I
• 43:54
  thought he was going to be back in
• 43:55
  Alabama 6 months later.
• 43:56
  >> Uhhuh.
• 43:57
  >> I moved out first, you know. It was like
• 43:59
  he uh he's fantastic. I'm so I'm so
• 44:02
  happy for him. He's he's constantly
• 44:04
  working, constantly booking and but
• 44:06
  again, he's an example of an actor that
• 44:08
  took it seriously, dug his heels in and
• 44:13
  um and did all the work and and
• 44:15
  continues to keep his day job.
• 44:17
  >> Yeah.
• 44:17
  >> Um as as needed. So,
• 44:20
  >> love it. Love it. Now, if you can give
• 44:22
  any advice to beginner actors out there
• 44:25
  or actors that's been grinding forever,
• 44:28
  what advice would you give?
• 44:30
  >> Can't get two. So, one, it's the So,
• 44:33
  when I did Selma and I got to work with
• 44:35
  Ava, she said this thing at one point
• 44:37
  that just kind of like ripped my soul
• 44:38
  out because she had, you know, she had
• 44:40
  self-produced and self-distributed her
• 44:42
  first film. Okay.
• 44:43
  >> And I was going through distribution
• 44:44
  with my film, Birthday Cake at that
• 44:46
  point.
• 44:46
  >> And I just remember her kind of
• 44:47
  flippantly kind of saying, "No one's
• 44:49
  ever going to want this as bad as you
• 44:51
  do."
• 44:52
  >> And I was like, "Oh my god." Because
• 44:54
  it's like it was such a
• 44:55
  >> your actors, your agents make 10%.
• 44:58
  >> Yeah. and you still have to do 100% of
• 45:01
  the work.
• 45:02
  >> So, um, anything that you do, you've got
• 45:07
  to give it 110%. And and and believe
• 45:10
  that no one's coming to save you. If you
• 45:12
  want to do this, you have to do your own
• 45:13
  self tapes. You have to grind. You have
• 45:15
  to grind. You and you also have to keep
• 45:17
  yourself healthy. And you you have to be
• 45:21
  uh aware of what is working and what is
• 45:24
  not working.
• 45:25
  >> Okay. And and then the other thing I
• 45:28
  would say is if you're not having fun,
• 45:31
  get out
• 45:33
  >> because or take a break
• 45:35
  >> because it's not going to get any
• 45:36
  better. There's there's several actors
• 45:38
  right now that are on Instagram. It's
• 45:39
  kind of heartbreaking because they're
• 45:40
  like,
• 45:41
  >> I just don't I don't want to be in the
• 45:42
  industry anymore. And D and then, you
• 45:44
  know, SAG is contacting them directly
• 45:45
  and then they're doing all these
• 45:46
  Instagram stories with SAG and it's
• 45:48
  like,
• 45:50
  >> yeah,
• 45:50
  >> if you need to take a break, take a
• 45:52
  break. But this is supposed to be fun.
• 45:55
  Yeah,
• 45:55
  >> we're doing makebelieve. And if you're
• 45:58
  not having fun doing makebelieve, I
• 45:59
  would suggest finding another job.
• 46:01
  >> I used to uh I would always teach at the
• 46:04
  Georgia Thespian conference, which is
• 46:06
  all the high school high schools in
• 46:07
  Georgia would come together.
• 46:09
  >> Mh.
• 46:09
  >> Thousands of kids
• 46:11
  >> and uh because I was a cast, you know, I
• 46:14
  was casting at the time. I I was living
• 46:16
  in LA at that point. So I'd come home
• 46:17
  just to do those things. So like my room
• 46:20
  would fill up. You know there'd be a
• 46:22
  hundred people in a room for 30 people
• 46:24
  >> and you know obviously it was a fire
• 46:25
  hazard. And so I'd say first thing I
• 46:27
  would say is okay question. Who here can
• 46:30
  picture something else that they can do
• 46:31
  in their life after they graduate? Like
• 46:33
  half the room's hands would go up. It's
• 46:34
  like great. Leave now.
• 46:35
  >> Leave now.
• 46:36
  >> Go do that. This is not for you.
• 46:39
  >> That's right.
• 46:39
  >> And over the years I'll still get text
• 46:41
  messages or like me or like emails
• 46:43
  people like hey you really upset me that
• 46:46
  day but I'm a doctor now. And so, not
• 46:48
  that that was the but I think it it does
• 46:50
  kind of reset your head. I'm not saying
• 46:52
  that everybody has to be an actor and
• 46:53
  that's the only thing that you do
• 46:54
  because we all have survival jobs,
• 46:56
  >> right?
• 46:56
  >> But I I've seen it with I've seen it
• 47:00
  with so many of my friends and you can't
• 47:03
  save them. And you can try to give them
• 47:05
  advice, but when the ear is not hearing
• 47:08
  it and it's not hearing like you need
• 47:10
  to, you know, you can never tell an
• 47:12
  actor you need to stop. You take a
• 47:13
  break. You know, you can never tell them
• 47:15
  that because they're always because
• 47:16
  they're actors. So, they're gonna hold
• 47:17
  that against you.
• 47:18
  >> Right. Right. Right.
• 47:19
  >> You Chad's trying to sabotage me. And um
• 47:22
  but last year was the worst. Well, 2023
• 47:25
  was the worst year of my life. Last year
• 47:27
  was not great at all.
• 47:29
  >> Okay.
• 47:29
  >> Um but this time last year, things
• 47:32
  started to shift for me.
• 47:34
  >> Mhm.
• 47:34
  >> Um both mainly as an actor. um that I I
• 47:39
  started book and then it just it there
• 47:41
  was this momentum that was insane
• 47:43
  because I was doing
• 47:46
  I got to do Tulsa King. I I got to do
• 47:47
  Comeback King. I got to do um all of
• 47:50
  these different films and and and and
• 47:53
  getting to play Rosario Dawson's Best
• 47:54
  Friend in the movie. And so like there
• 47:56
  was this and I and I realized why it's
• 47:59
  all happening is because I'm having fun.
• 48:01
  I'm having fun in my auditions.
• 48:03
  >> Yeah. I'm
• 48:05
  uh I'm keeping a an attitude of
• 48:08
  gratefulness
• 48:10
  >> about what is and and again what is for
• 48:12
  you will not pass you by. Full stop.
• 48:15
  >> That's right.
• 48:15
  >> And uh I mean check back in a month and
• 48:18
  I may not be you know getting any
• 48:20
  auditions but it's right now we are
• 48:24
  about to see such a an explosion of film
• 48:27
  I believe in Georgia. And the reason is
• 48:30
  it's always it always gets busy towards
• 48:31
  the end of the year because people have
• 48:32
  got to spend their money. And um but
• 48:35
  with this federal tax incentive that's
• 48:37
  coming through with our 30% in Georgia,
• 48:40
  the 20% which would be the federal uh
• 48:43
  that's now 50%
• 48:45
  of tax and federal credits that can
• 48:47
  shoot in Georgia. You go to Savannah,
• 48:51
  that's an additional 10 in some cases.
• 48:53
  So that's 60%.
• 48:54
  >> Wow. And then there's also a 5%
• 48:57
  incentive in the federal if you're an
• 48:59
  independent filmmaker, an independent
• 49:00
  producer, which most of our small budget
• 49:02
  independents are. They're they're not
• 49:03
  universal. They're not paramount.
• 49:05
  They're not. So that's an additional 5%.
• 49:07
  >> And there's this case that I'm fighting
• 49:09
  for right now. Uh there's a rural if you
• 49:14
  shoot in a rural area and I've been I've
• 49:16
  since been told it's like no, it's
• 49:17
  supposed to be for regions that have
• 49:19
  been that are in desperate straits. And
• 49:20
  I'm like and Savannah's not. We have we
• 49:24
  didn't have a film for two years. I got
• 49:26
  a film crew that would argue that.
• 49:28
  >> Um but I think uh you know we're looking
• 49:32
  at a possible stack of 70%. You're not
• 49:35
  going to get all 70%. But I mean it's
• 49:38
  well over 50,
• 49:39
  >> right?
• 49:40
  >> And because of that, the projects that
• 49:42
  are starting to move again are going to
• 49:44
  move a lot faster. I mean my film
• 49:46
  Darlene, uh Jamie King and Natasha Leon
• 49:49
  are producing it. Mary Lambert's
• 49:50
  directing it. We're
• 49:52
  everything got a slightly bigger because
• 49:54
  of the federal tax incentive now. So, um
• 49:57
  we've got a major agency involved now
• 49:59
  that's packaging it and uh major casting
• 50:03
  director that's involved. And then my
• 50:04
  other film, The Intelligent, that got
• 50:06
  fasttracked as well. So, people are
• 50:10
  they're looking for projects that they
• 50:12
  can do and they're looking for good
• 50:14
  people that they can work with. And I I
• 50:17
  do think because of these incentives and
• 50:20
  also seeing where things are happening
• 50:21
  like in North Carolina or where things
• 50:23
  are not happening in North Carolina, you
• 50:24
  know, we got Hunting Wives that's moving
• 50:26
  to Georgia now. Um
• 50:28
  >> well, you know, that's where I am. I'm
• 50:29
  in Wilmington, North Carolina.
• 50:31
  >> So, what have you um you know, the news?
• 50:35
  Did it happen already? There was some
• 50:37
  something's happening in Wilmington
• 50:38
  today, I think.
• 50:40
  >> Is it today where they you sold it
• 50:42
  yesterday? where they sold the um
• 50:46
  what's the studio
• 50:47
  >> the studio? No, I think that's
• 50:49
  happening, but I think also I don't know
• 50:51
  this for sure, but I think
• 50:53
  >> somebody found some money in Wilmington.
• 50:57
  >> So, I think I think you're about to get
• 50:58
  some incentives back.
• 51:00
  >> Oh,
• 51:00
  >> I don't I think because whatever the
• 51:02
  news was last night that I saw, they
• 51:04
  were very excited about it.
• 51:05
  >> Okay. And I had I had talked to somebody
• 51:08
  uh part of the Spanish film alliance
• 51:09
  like, "Oh, I heard that, you know, they
• 51:11
  they found some extra money." I mean,
• 51:13
  we're not talking the caps that a lot of
• 51:14
  the other places do, but it probably
• 51:16
  could be enough to keep some shows in
• 51:18
  Wilmington.
• 51:19
  >> Oh, nice. Okay.
• 51:20
  >> And I think I think Hunting Wife sadly
• 51:22
  has already moved, but um
• 51:23
  >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, cool. But look,
• 51:26
  >> and I think also because of the federal
• 51:28
  that could help Wilmington as well.
• 51:29
  >> Absolutely. Absolutely. But look guys,
• 51:32
  you you heard it here. He He's telling
• 51:34
  you now to be prepared. Don't slack up.
• 51:37
  Don't slack up. Chad, this has been so
• 51:39
  much fun. Thank you so much for hanging
• 51:41
  out with me today, sharing all of your
• 51:43
  experiences and giving actors a behind
• 51:46
  the scenes, a little peak of what goes
• 51:48
  on behind the scenes. And if you want,
• 51:50
  did you want to say hello to anyone or
• 51:52
  say give a little kudos to somebody out
• 51:55
  there before we go?
• 51:57
  >> No. Well, I just I I'm so grateful to
• 51:59
  like all the actors that I have I We
• 52:03
  couldn't do our job in casting without
• 52:04
  really good actors. Yeah.
• 52:06
  >> And especially the actors that are
• 52:07
  training and that are keeping positive
• 52:09
  attitudes. And then also
• 52:11
  >> I I know how frustrating is an actor to
• 52:13
  get close like you get pinned and then
• 52:15
  it's like oh they went a different
• 52:16
  direction.
• 52:17
  >> Knowing that you you've got an actor I
• 52:19
  feel very protective of all my actors.
• 52:21
  >> Yeah.
• 52:22
  >> So like in a situation where like I'm
• 52:23
  fighting for an actor but then they go a
• 52:25
  different way.
• 52:26
  >> I I feel like I'm letting them down. And
• 52:30
  so I'm just very grateful to actors that
• 52:33
  are willing to come and play and be open
• 52:35
  and trust the process and and you know
• 52:38
  know that whatever's for you is for you
• 52:39
  and what it's not it's not. But it's uh
• 52:43
  now is the time now is the time to make
• 52:46
  sure that you're ready. You know be
• 52:47
  taking those classes and stay warm and
• 52:50
  read books on acting. Whatever it needs
• 52:51
  you need to do to to get back into the
• 52:54
  game if if you're not getting the
• 52:55
  auditions.
• 52:57
  >> Figure it out. figure it out. All right,
• 53:00
  guys. With that being said, thank you,
• 53:02
  Chad Darnell, for joining us today.
• 53:04
  Hopefully, you'll come back again, and I
• 53:06
  want you to come back and and talk about
• 53:07
  some of the different things that you've
• 53:09
  been working on later in later in the um
• 53:11
  maybe later the year, the beginning of
• 53:12
  the next year. Would that be okay?
• 53:14
  >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
• 53:15
  >> All right, guys. Make sure you like,
• 53:17
  subscribe, and share this video. And we
• 53:20
  will talk to you later. This is Deia
• 53:21
  Avery with the Demia Avery Show. Bye
• 53:23
  bye.