Latest / Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps / Christmas! Food! Farts! E. Coli! with food scientist Gary Kennedy

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Christmas! Food! Farts! E. Coli! with food scientist Gary Kennedy · Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps

• 0:00
  Get a humans, welcome to the safe space, for dangerous ideas and Merry Christmas, happy
• 0:09
  new year, happy holidays, it is a time of year when we stuff our faces with food.
• 0:16
  And sometimes that can have undesirable consequences.
• 0:20
  In particular, some uncomfortable conversations around, I don't know, gas, funny smelling
• 0:25
  urine, tiredness after big meals, whether or not we're going to make everybody sick,
• 0:28
  by the way, we're cooking things at the barbecue, if you're in Australia or indoors, if
• 0:33
  you're in the Northern Hemisphere.
• 0:34
  So at this time of year, one of my favorite guests from my old ABC radio show always comes
• 0:40
  and joins us to enlighten us and muse us and entertain us and form us about all things
• 0:46
  related to food, food preparation, cuisine, health, microbiology, I don't know if it sounds
• 0:54
  fascinating, selling it that way, but Gary Kennedy is an absolute riot.
• 0:59
  He is one of the most prominent and well-informed and senior food safety advisors in Australia.
• 1:06
  He gets hired by the big supermarket chains, by governments in Australia and all around
• 1:10
  the Asia Pacific to tell them how do they have to do things, how do they have to set things
• 1:14
  up, how hot the things have to be, how cold the things have to be, you know, in the food
• 1:18
  preparation industry, what are the regulations that governments should impose?
• 1:22
  So he's always flying around Asia, visiting new food production plants and agricultural
• 1:27
  factories and stuff like that, and he's a food scientist, so he understands the microbiology
• 1:31
  of it, what exactly the bacteria are that can make you sick, how they make you sick, how
• 1:36
  they change your intestinal, everything, everything.
• 1:40
  You may not want to listen to this while you're literally eating food because we do go
• 1:44
  into some uncomfortable, scatological places, but I thought this would be a nice reprieve
• 1:50
  from the seriousness of recent weeks, so I hope you enjoy as much as I did the one, the
• 1:56
  only, Gary Kennedy.
• 2:05
  Australia is quite different to the rest of the world.
• 2:07
  Most of the world you can't just randomly add vitamins and minerals and amino acid to
• 2:12
  food, in Australia that makes it a medicine, and Australia's philosophy is if you go to
• 2:17
  a supermarket, you can eat a healthy balanced diet if you buy the right things.
• 2:22
  So we tend not to say willy-nilly put things in, so we don't put things in.
• 2:26
  We don't.
• 2:27
  Right, okay.
• 2:28
  So overseas, for example, you can buy a breakfast cereal with a cup of milk and a glass
• 2:33
  of cereal, you get every vitamin, mineral and amino acid you need for the day, those sort
• 2:38
  of things are banned here, they would be drugs, and things like vitamin gummies, which in
• 2:43
  some countries are lolly in Australia they consider medicine, because they've got vitamins added
• 2:48
  to them.
• 2:49
  But you can still buy them in the supermarket, but in the health section, along with
• 2:52
  parasitamol and the ibuprofen, and they have to be registered with the Therapeutic Goods
• 2:56
  Administration, they're legally medicines in Australia.
• 2:59
  And is that true of folate cereal?
• 3:01
  No, folate's got an exception, so there's a couple of things.
• 3:05
  So right for sale?
• 3:06
  Supercritical, they just make an exception for whatever they don't, they want to be able
• 3:09
  to put in the food.
• 3:10
  But they, what they did way back in the late 1990s, they did a survey of pregnant women
• 3:16
  who, they surveyed whether women knew that folate in pregnancy prevented neural tube defects
• 3:25
  of which spider bifida is probably the most well known.
• 3:29
  And at that stage, less than 10% of pregnant women knew folate was important in their diet.
• 3:35
  So they put folate into breakfast cereals and bred as a trial.
• 3:40
  And as part of that, they did an advertising campaign.
• 3:44
  And after 10, 15 years, they did another survey, and 48% of young pregnant women knew
• 3:52
  folate was important, so they said, oh, this actually works.
• 3:56
  And was there a reduction in spider bifida in Australia?
• 3:58
  Yeah, there has been.
• 3:59
  There's been a significant drop.
• 4:01
  And folate normally, if you weren't eating it from a breakfast cereal or a bread where
• 4:05
  it's been injected by evil chemists, where would you get it from?
• 4:09
  A healthy and diet, fruit and vegetables.
• 4:12
  Right, okay.
• 4:13
  So not eating on a fruit and vegetables.
• 4:14
  Yeah, not eating on a fruit and vegetables.
• 4:15
  So you could either wag your finger at pregnant women and say you should be getting your
• 4:18
  five serves a day of fruit and vegetables, or you could just put the folate in the cereal
• 4:22
  and start with it.
• 4:23
  One of your problems, if you're not that either, they're the deem pregnant, but nothing
• 4:27
  people who have deem pregnant.
• 4:29
  You can't judge these days, Gary.
• 4:31
  You may have been.
• 4:32
  Yeah, you often don't feel like eating what you normally eat with your pregnant.
• 4:40
  And so they found just 70 pounds of chocolate a day.
• 4:44
  So they found that most women will still have breakfast cereal and they'll still have
• 4:47
  toast and things.
• 4:48
  Okay.
• 4:49
  And the other thing that everyone would be familiar with that we add is iodine to salt,
• 4:53
  to table salt.
• 4:54
  Yeah.
• 4:55
  Yeah.
• 4:56
  We used to get our iodine from a contaminant from our odor force, a sanitizing chemical
• 5:01
  that used to be used in the dairy industry.
• 5:04
  So you used to clean pipes out in factories with iodine based sanitizing solutions.
• 5:10
  Right.
• 5:11
  Which makes sense if you think that iodine, just, you know, your grandmother used iodine
• 5:14
  as an acid.
• 5:15
  I never actually made that connection.
• 5:16
  The iodine that I, that, do you mean the brown stuff that I can put on a cut?
• 5:21
  That's the same as the stuff that I need to eat.
• 5:23
  That's in there.
• 5:24
  So they're not get scurvy.
• 5:25
  It's in the same.
• 5:26
  Or a goitah or something.
• 5:27
  It's goitah.
• 5:28
  This is in the same family.
• 5:29
  Scurvy is vitamin C.
• 5:30
  Yeah.
• 5:31
  Goitah is not it.
• 5:32
  And because we've stopped using that, because they're in our better and cheaper sanitizing
• 5:37
  chemicals and our systems are a lot better than they used to be, we've stopped using the
• 5:42
  iodine force.
• 5:43
  And as a result, there's been a, there was a rise in problems with low iodine in the diet
• 5:51
  of these thyroid problems and goitah started rising.
• 5:55
  So they said, right, in certain industries, all salt will be iodized.
• 6:00
  So again, the baking industry.
• 6:02
  So when you salt that's in breakfast cereals, bread, biscuits, cakes, it's all iodized
• 6:07
  because the average Australian eats those.
• 6:09
  Right.
• 6:10
  And we've seen a subsequent drop back in goitah and thyroid problems.
• 6:13
  Although I did hear on a podcast, which obviously everything you can, you hear on a podcast,
• 6:18
  you can take to the bank.
• 6:19
  Yes.
• 6:20
  I think that he's seen in America saying that he's seen a rise in goitahs just recently.
• 6:24
  And the iodine is a thing that people aren't getting anymore.
• 6:28
  Maybe because people are using fancy salts, but I don't know.
• 6:31
  Where do you get iodine in your normal diet?
• 6:34
  If you don't get it from, as an additive.
• 6:36
  From a kept cleaning chemical.
• 6:39
  Seafood.
• 6:40
  Seafood.
• 6:41
  Right.
• 6:42
  Seafood's high.
• 6:43
  Yes.
• 6:44
  He was saying have seafood a couple of times a week.
• 6:45
  Yes.
• 6:46
  Seafood is it.
• 6:47
  Yeah.
• 6:48
  Seafood is also fairly high for anyone who has these things.
• 6:50
  That's another thing he was saying.
• 6:51
  This must have been hubum and something.
• 6:53
  He was saying that he gets kelp powder and just puts a third of a teaspoon of kelp powder
• 7:00
  into like his morning smoothie to make sure that he gets, that's where he gets his
• 7:03
  iron in for.
• 7:04
  Yep.
• 7:05
  That would do.
• 7:06
  Yeah.
• 7:07
  There you go.
• 7:08
  Okay.
• 7:09
  The lay of the land at this time of year is that everybody is scrambling around.
• 7:10
  If they're in the northern hemisphere, they're probably preparing for a Christmas traditional
• 7:15
  Christmas feast.
• 7:16
  If they're in the southern hemisphere, we've tended to do things more like seafood.
• 7:20
  We might do picnics.
• 7:21
  We might do, let's start with that stuff.
• 7:24
  Okay.
• 7:25
  We're going out.
• 7:26
  I'm going to the park.
• 7:27
  I'm going to a beach or something.
• 7:28
  Yep.
• 7:29
  And we're taking along a picnic.
• 7:30
  Yep.
• 7:31
  I've got a, there's probably a barbecue or also very Australia.
• 7:35
  Yes.
• 7:36
  A barbecue.
• 7:37
  So I've got the barbie.
• 7:38
  I've also got a Vietnamese, not a deep fried spring roll, but you know the rolls,
• 7:44
  the rice paper roll.
• 7:45
  Yes.
• 7:46
  Probably a barbie.
• 7:47
  Or yeah.
• 7:48
  Yeah.
• 7:49
  So the rice paper roll that's sitting in my fridge right now is a prawn rice paper roll.
• 7:52
  Yep.
• 7:53
  Cooked to prawns with some rice noodles inside, some basil and all that.
• 7:58
  It's currently two and a half days old.
• 8:01
  Yeah.
• 8:02
  Take away, joint.
• 8:03
  Is it edible?
• 8:05
  I'll give you two answers here.
• 8:07
  Yes.
• 8:08
  If you were a commercial establishments and you'd kept all your fridges correct, you'd
• 8:13
  probably got a couple of days.
• 8:14
  If this is your fridge your time, no, it's past the date.
• 8:18
  I resent your distrust of my fridge.
• 8:20
  Yeah.
• 8:21
  We've worked together before.
• 8:22
  Maybe you'd poison your kids with salmonella last.
• 8:27
  So this is true for the, for the, for the listener, it was once the case that when Gary was
• 8:33
  speaking to me on my obviously radio show, I had to confess that my daughter had salmonella
• 8:39
  poisoning, which sounds really bad, but actually is quite a common, just tummy bath.
• 8:43
  That is quite common.
• 8:45
  And I'm convinced that she got it from the takeaway joint and Gary, because you are sure
• 8:50
  that all takeaway joints are up to standard that I poisoned my, my daughter.
• 8:57
  Well, we'll leave it in here.
• 8:59
  I was only feeding her raw eggs twice a day.
• 9:01
  Yes.
• 9:02
  What could possibly have gone wrong?
• 9:03
  Yeah, what could have gone wrong?
• 9:05
  Raw eggs are the most common way to get salmonella poisoning.
• 9:08
  Yes, that's why I joke.
• 9:09
  No, I don't give her raw eggs.
• 9:11
  So, yeah, prawn, rice pepper raw.
• 9:15
  There's a magical number of five degrees, which is the standard.
• 9:18
  And five degrees was picked after the second world war, because back then, nothing would
• 9:24
  grow in a fridge that was less than five degrees.
• 9:26
  We now know there's one or two bugs that do that we didn't know about.
• 9:29
  But most of the bugs that could be causing food poisoning in a Vietnamese rice paper
• 9:36
  roll won't grow below five degrees.
• 9:39
  So a commercial fridge will go below five.
• 9:42
  So the supermarkets, the fast food chains, hopefully most restaurants and takeaways.
• 9:47
  But I've got a good fridge that tells me what it is and it looks like it's four.
• 9:51
  Looks like it's four, you know it's four.
• 9:53
  There's a number that says four.
• 9:54
  Well, let's assume it's a good fridge and it's been calibrated and four means four.
• 9:59
  You're probably, it's probably still okay after two and a half days.
• 10:03
  Most people, though, don't keep their fridge below five.
• 10:08
  And if it's below five, that means the butterweights spread, it'll mean occasionally on a
• 10:15
  cycle.
• 10:16
  It'll mean that the lettuce will go will freeze and yeah, I see.
• 10:21
  So most people don't like that and warm up their fridge slightly.
• 10:25
  Your fridge should be.
• 10:26
  And the bugs go to town.
• 10:27
  Yeah, one ticket to about five degrees within a couple of hours things will start growing.
• 10:32
  So if the rice paper roll wasn't made well and you know, you know, like a fly landed
• 10:38
  on or someone scratched their nose and touched the rice paper roll, you probably go right
• 10:42
  for a couple of days.
• 10:43
  But if it's been in there two and a half days, no, probably not.
• 10:47
  So if the bugs can't, can't thrive under five degrees and it is five.
• 10:52
  Most of them can.
• 10:53
  Yeah, so what happened?
• 10:54
  Why would you not eat it after a week even if it's been in a commercial fridge?
• 10:58
  What's going on?
• 10:59
  There is one bug that actually will grow down to zero, a bug called Listeria monocytogenes,
• 11:07
  commonly just called Listeria in the, and that's the bug that they warm pregnant women.
• 11:12
  So a pregnant woman should never be eating a rice paper roll.
• 11:16
  Oh, and in fact, pregnant women, because this bug causes abortion, unfortunately, it's
• 11:22
  a food poisoning.
• 11:23
  Like we wanted the symptoms is miscarriage.
• 11:26
  So this is why pregnant women are pregnant women are to be careful about seafood and
• 11:31
  cheeses.
• 11:32
  Yeah.
• 11:33
  And the segment that we used to do, someone, I still do, someone rang into that and
• 11:38
  said, can I serve gravel acts to my pregnant daughter for Christmas?
• 11:42
  No.
• 11:43
  That's my salmon roll.
• 11:44
  It's my salmon roll.
• 11:45
  It rolls to make salmon.
• 11:46
  No, you cannot.
• 11:47
  Right.
• 11:48
  Right.
• 11:49
  Right.
• 11:50
  But it's similar to things like things like hummus and bubblegumish dips, soft cheese
• 11:53
  platters.
• 11:54
  In fact, almost everything on the charcuterie platter except the pickles.
• 11:58
  You shouldn't be eating our falfer sprouts, all of those ready, even sandwiches, if you
• 12:04
  didn't prepare them, all of that sort of stuff, if you're pregnant, you shouldn't
• 12:07
  eat it.
• 12:08
  But when you say that you shouldn't, if you weren't pregnant, if I ate the thing, what
• 12:13
  would the symptoms of Listeria be for me?
• 12:16
  As a healthy adult, you're probably going to be fine, Josh.
• 12:19
  It's in dust.
• 12:20
  Would I even notice would I get the runs or something?
• 12:23
  It really doesn't affect the healthy adult.
• 12:27
  The really, a pregnant woman is the obvious risk group.
• 12:30
  But if you're really old, so above 70, if you're really sick and that might be medically,
• 12:37
  and you're like, Kim at therapy, kidney dialysis, diabetes, or if you've got a medical
• 12:43
  condition like HIV, it's a common cause of death in people with HIV.
• 12:50
  If your immune system shut down, it can actually kill you.
• 12:53
  Right.
• 12:54
  But it'll be totally asymptomatic for a healthy person.
• 12:56
  Yeah, a healthy person, you're probably...
• 12:57
  That is good to know, because I have spoken to pregnant women, especially in Europe where
• 13:01
  they seem to be more casual about this, they're less anal about the food stuff who was
• 13:08
  saying, oh, I still eat the soft cheeses and I still eat all that stuff because they've
• 13:13
  never made me sick before, and it's very unlikely that it's going to make me sick now.
• 13:17
  So she was under the impression that the yardstick by which she would judge whether or not
• 13:23
  there was harm to her baby would be whether or not there are bugs in the things that would
• 13:27
  have given her a tummy upset, was she not pregnant anyway, and using that as the bench line
• 13:31
  for saying, well, it's probably not the harm the baby because I've never felt sick from
• 13:36
  it before, but she's wrong, she's your saying.
• 13:38
  Yeah, your judge of whether you know, you shouldn't be, well, I've never got sick, shouldn't
• 13:44
  be your judge if you're pregnant, you know, because one of the things, again, I've never
• 13:49
  been pregnant, but again, you keep emphasizing this, we think she does protest too much,
• 13:54
  Gary.
• 13:55
  No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
• 13:59
  pregnant women are their immune system is down during pregnancy, and their unborn baby
• 14:04
  is relying on the mother's immune system for them as well, so pregnant women fall into
• 14:09
  the rich group.
• 14:10
  Okay.
• 14:11
  So the first thing I'm doing if you're pregnant or you're very elderly, if you're above
• 14:16
  70, or if you have a major medical condition where you know your immune system is shot,
• 14:21
  then really all of those soft foods are to be avoided.
• 14:25
  Now the bug we're talking about, Listeria is found in dust and dirt.
• 14:28
  So is that the one that sometimes goes through air conditioning systems?
• 14:32
  Yes, Legionella.
• 14:33
  Legionella.
• 14:34
  Yes.
• 14:35
  Listeria will do the same because air conditioning systems suck in dust from the outside, and
• 14:41
  then we'll blow it in.
• 14:43
  So sometimes it will blow around, but if we swap these chairs and benches now, we'd
• 14:47
  find it.
• 14:48
  It's everywhere.
• 14:49
  Right.
• 14:50
  We're just powerful enough not to shrug it off.
• 14:53
  You're inhaling it all the time when you're breathing in, but one, it's got to get down
• 14:58
  into your stomach, survive the pH one hydrochloric acid.
• 15:03
  Then it's got to get into your system, lodge somewhere before it comes out the other end,
• 15:10
  and then it's got to be in there for a day or two until it starts producing the toxin
• 15:16
  that makes you sick.
• 15:18
  But it also has this bug as a particularly sneaky aspect that sometimes it can lodge there,
• 15:25
  and if you're healthy, it'll stay there.
• 15:27
  And then if your immune system drops down, it can activate.
• 15:30
  So there are people who have got food poisoning 70 days after eating the food with this bug
• 15:36
  in.
• 15:37
  It's a really unusual bug.
• 15:38
  It grows at zero, and it'll 70 days after getting eating the food, you can still get
• 15:45
  food poisoning.
• 15:46
  It's a really hardy bug, which is not surprising.
• 15:49
  It's environmental.
• 15:50
  We know a lot of the bugs that exist in the environment, excuse me, can survive much
• 15:56
  hard at harsh temperatures because they're sitting out in the dirt.
• 16:00
  It'll survive freezing, it'll survive for years, it's the super bug.
• 16:06
  It is a safer.
• 16:07
  You have to cook it up to higher temperatures to kill it off.
• 16:10
  It's the highest bug you cook too.
• 16:11
  So all cooking temperatures are designed.
• 16:13
  It's the super bug, not in terms of disease, but in terms of survival, it grows inside
• 16:19
  a vacuum pack.
• 16:20
  Wow.
• 16:21
  So it really is most of the systems, most of the cleaning and sanitizing and hygiene procedures
• 16:29
  that you see in the food industry, even simple things like don't put a box on the ground,
• 16:34
  wash your hands, cover your street clothes, don't leave a window open, they're designed
• 16:40
  to stop dust and dirt getting in because this bug is the most dangerous bug.
• 16:45
  It's a mysterious world.
• 16:47
  We're just living it.
• 16:48
  Correct.
• 16:49
  Yeah.
• 16:50
  How paranoid should we be about all their conditioning units with old pipes and things?
• 16:55
  Because this has come up a little bit in like moving around and renting and things like
• 16:58
  you sort of look at an AC unit and you go, is it okay for me to be blowing that on me
• 17:02
  or a mind of getting a whole bunch of fungus and stuff?
• 17:07
  The strict answer is you need to change the filters because they've got filters in and
• 17:12
  if the filters haven't been changed, yes, you will be everything that's in the filter,
• 17:18
  turn it all, blow it all over you.
• 17:20
  So I investigated an outbreak in a major hospital.
• 17:23
  It was, the stereo was the bug and it was because the filters in the hospital, maintenance
• 17:30
  thought the contractors were doing it and contractors thought maintenance was, they
• 17:35
  know one did it and it was decades since the filters had been changed.
• 17:40
  The actual pipes themselves, the ducts that transmit the air, they don't need to be cleaned
• 17:45
  because the filter catches whatever.
• 17:47
  The filters should be catching at all.
• 17:48
  Is there.
• 17:49
  They have to.
• 17:50
  Now, we'll go back to my favorite bag, Listeria.
• 17:52
  One of the world's first mass outbreaks of Listeria occurred in America in a hotdog factory
• 17:59
  where there was a faulty air conditioning unit and they removed it during production and
• 18:04
  all the dust from the parts fell on the hotdog cranks below and 17 people died.
• 18:10
  Wow.
• 18:11
  In that outbreak.
• 18:12
  And if you think hotdog cranks, you think, oh yeah, but they are chilled.
• 18:15
  It survives chilling.
• 18:16
  They're vacuum packed.
• 18:18
  It survives vacuum packing and some people eat hotdogs straight out the pack.
• 18:22
  They don't cook them.
• 18:23
  So no cooking steps.
• 18:24
  So 17 people died in that outbreak.
• 18:26
  But even if you cook them, it might survive depending on how long you cook them for.
• 18:30
  If you dip these, you know, most hotdogs you throw into boiling water, boiling water will
• 18:36
  kill it fairly quickly.
• 18:37
  Okay.
• 18:38
  There we go.
• 18:39
  That's our last stand, our last resistance.
• 18:40
  What do I always say to people?
• 18:42
  I tip for buying hot food, you know, and I sometimes travel, you know, where I'm stuck
• 18:46
  at a roadhouse truck stop at 3 in the morning, nothing.
• 18:50
  That's where you got pregnant from both of those times.
• 18:53
  Eating the food.
• 18:56
  And my tip for anyone who has to eat food, it should be hot enough that you can put it
• 19:01
  in your mouth straight away and eat it.
• 19:03
  Hot food should be hot enough that you have to blow on it or let it cool.
• 19:06
  Right.
• 19:07
  If you bite into it.
• 19:08
  It never is.
• 19:09
  The drumstick that's been sitting in the bakery at the truck stop is tapered.
• 19:14
  I would hope it's not, but sometimes it is.
• 19:18
  So my tip is it's meant to be hot enough you can't eat it straight away.
• 19:22
  Okay.
• 19:23
  How do we get food poisoning?
• 19:24
  Because one of the, I think a lot of people think that, well, either it's that the food
• 19:30
  is off, that it's been around for too long, but oh, I can probably cook it and that'll
• 19:35
  kill the bugs or that someone who prepared the food, if it's not you, didn't wash their
• 19:40
  hands after wiping their bum or something and like this fecal matter on it.
• 19:44
  Yeah.
• 19:45
  The table will do it.
• 19:46
  There's also the question of which I hadn't realized until I was taught by you of even if
• 19:52
  they're, even if the bugs are dead, there are bugs that will have produced poisons that
• 19:59
  so the food will still be poisoned, even if you do cook it thoroughly.
• 20:03
  So what is the landscape of how food makes us sick?
• 20:07
  There's two ways to get sick.
• 20:09
  One of them is, and the bugs Salmonella, Listeria, you mentioned fecal, that's E. coli,
• 20:16
  a cherished coli, and there's a few other bugs, Campbell, a bacta is common in chicken.
• 20:20
  So those bugs you eat the bug and like Listeria, it has to survive getting through your stomach.
• 20:27
  It then has to lodge somewhere in the gut before you excrete it out the other end.
• 20:33
  Not anyone listing it lunchtime.
• 20:35
  And it also has to lodge there and they do produce a toxin, but it takes a couple of days.
• 20:41
  So the sort of things where you eat the bug and then the bug has to survive in your stomach.
• 20:47
  They're things that you get sick typically two days after.
• 20:51
  So I work for one of the big fast food chains and when people say, I bought the product
• 20:57
  and it tasted off within five minutes I was sick, I just go rubbish.
• 21:01
  There's just no way you get sick that quickly.
• 21:04
  It could be something you ate 70 days ago that's caused their problem.
• 21:08
  So, but you do sometimes, don't you?
• 21:10
  Is that the other way that you're going to get to or are you saying that in that time?
• 21:13
  Yeah, there's one we can get quicker.
• 21:14
  So most, because I had a chimichanga once that I've probably told you about in the past
• 21:18
  in New York, which is a deep fried burrito, and it's very hard to tell whether it's good
• 21:25
  or not because it's so full of salt and fat that you know, it tastes good in any way.
• 21:30
  But halfway through it, I started feeling slightly nauseous and I finished it anyway and
• 21:37
  then I went away and within 30 minutes I was nauseous and within an hour I was vomiting
• 21:44
  for eight hours.
• 21:45
  That would be right.
• 21:47
  Yeah.
• 21:48
  And I've never been able to stomach the smell of a chimichanga ever since.
• 21:52
  So the ones where you eat the bug, that's the different way.
• 21:55
  So the ones where you eat the bug, it's, you need to eat a lot of the bug or you need
• 22:03
  to be very young like a baby or very old or very sick or pregnant for it to make you
• 22:08
  sick.
• 22:09
  So you're actually...
• 22:10
  Have you been pregnant?
• 22:11
  No.
• 22:12
  And we haven't covered this, haven't we?
• 22:13
  No, no.
• 22:14
  Okay.
• 22:15
  No, no, no, no.
• 22:16
  Okay.
• 22:17
  So the, what can happen though?
• 22:18
  Sometimes, particularly if you eat a lot of food at once, it'll go through your stomach
• 22:24
  before your stomach can get to it, particularly if it's a really fatty food.
• 22:28
  So something like peanut butter, chocolate, which basically sits in a blob.
• 22:33
  There are cases where things have been in things like that.
• 22:35
  And so if you're a guts and you eat a huge amount of it, deep fried burrito, it's possible
• 22:41
  that you ate so much your stomach actually pushed it through before the acid got to everything.
• 22:47
  And a lot of people take things like antacid tablets.
• 22:51
  So using a brand name, you know, things like gaffer scone and, um, semacase or something.
• 22:57
  Quickies.
• 22:58
  Yeah.
• 22:59
  Quickies.
• 23:00
  Here also the antacid pills.
• 23:01
  Yeah.
• 23:02
  I take those occasionally.
• 23:03
  Yeah.
• 23:04
  Those sort of things neutralize your stomach acid.
• 23:06
  So if you take those, um, you're more likely to get food poisoning because you're actually
• 23:11
  getting rid of the acid.
• 23:13
  So if you take one of those before a while eating food, it can also be that the antacid
• 23:19
  tablet actually neutralizes the acid and the bugs stay.
• 23:23
  So you're saying that the sticky things like peanut butter and chocolate are more likely
• 23:26
  to get you sick, not less because they allow the, if bug, the bug can attach to them and
• 23:31
  bypass the, yeah, if you slip through them, if you think of something, think of something
• 23:36
  like, I don't know, our falfa sprouts, for example, all little thin things when they
• 23:42
  get into your stomach, they're going to the acid can easily get to everything.
• 23:47
  But if it's something fatty and blobby, like cheddar cheese, um, you know, chocolate,
• 23:54
  peanut butter, not saying chocolate and peanut butter are bad, but they have been issues
• 23:58
  with some of those.
• 23:59
  If it sits in a blob, or you, you're just a gut and you eat a lot of food and it gets
• 24:03
  through your stomach before it's, so there's another reason to eat slowly and to not
• 24:08
  shovel food into your face.
• 24:09
  And to chew food like your mum sent to is another reason it's actually scientifically.
• 24:15
  The more you chew, even the saliva has enzymes in the antimicrobial, so chewing your food
• 24:23
  and getting saliva all around your food aids digestion and it reduces your chance of food
• 24:28
  poisoning.
• 24:29
  Right.
• 24:30
  Okay.
• 24:31
  Not just in your mouth, but also then in your gut because the food's in smaller pieces.
• 24:33
  Correct.
• 24:34
  The bacteria are more exposed to the pH to the acid.
• 24:38
  Yes.
• 24:39
  Okay.
• 24:40
  So the second group, which is what I think your burrito was in New York, there are three
• 24:44
  or four bugs that grow in the food and are killed by cooking.
• 24:50
  However, these four bugs will produce a toxin in the food and the toxins heat stable.
• 24:57
  So if these bugs grow in the food, they produce a poison, a toxin.
• 25:02
  And then when you cook it again, you get food poisoning.
• 25:05
  But because it's a poison, it works much quicker.
• 25:08
  And so one hour is quick, but one to four hours.
• 25:14
  And the one you accidentally mention is someone not washing their hands properly, golden staff,
• 25:23
  which people would know about because it's an infection bug, is carried by about 30% of
• 25:28
  Australians up their nose.
• 25:31
  Oh.
• 25:32
  He says, now I've got me, she knows.
• 25:34
  Yeah.
• 25:36
  It's just psychosomatic.
• 25:38
  So obviously if you sneeze on the food, or if you, you know, the law says you must wash
• 25:44
  your hands up to touch it, get your body opening, that includes your nose.
• 25:48
  I'm using a tissue or a handkerchief, then going back to preparing food, scratching
• 25:54
  a pimple because golden staff is one of the things that causes acne and dermatitis.
• 25:59
  All of those things in the food industry, you're meant to wash your hands after.
• 26:03
  And it is one of the things that produces a toxin in the food.
• 26:07
  Right.
• 26:08
  But there are three.
• 26:09
  And that's mild.
• 26:10
  You're probably, you know, upstairs and downstairs work much better than they meant to
• 26:15
  for a day or two.
• 26:16
  But there are three than a last year.
• 26:18
  There's one called Bissellus Sirius, which is serious as in cereal, of which rice is
• 26:25
  it's a, that these last three bugs are found in the dirt and rice lives in the dirt.
• 26:31
  It's in paddy fields.
• 26:32
  So it's common.
• 26:33
  And another one called custodian preferringions and one called custodian botulinum, which
• 26:37
  causes botulism.
• 26:40
  And those three bugs produce a pretty nasty toxin and they're capable of killing you.
• 26:44
  Wow.
• 26:45
  What is botulism?
• 26:46
  What does it do?
• 26:47
  Custodian botulinum toxin is the most deadly poison known on earth.
• 26:52
  It's a biological weapon of war.
• 26:55
  If you remember way back when Saddam Hussein was saying, why are the UK, you know, why
• 27:01
  are the weapons inspectors visiting hospitals in universities?
• 27:05
  We don't make bombs in universities and hospitals.
• 27:09
  What they're actually checking for was the development of biological weapons of war,
• 27:13
  like anthrax, but also custodian botulinum.
• 27:16
  The analogy, if you could get the toxin from custodian botulinum, which would be illegal
• 27:22
  in Australia, because it's a biological weapon of war, and you extracted that and you dropped
• 27:27
  it in an eyedropperful into the warrigam, but dam, you would die if you drank from
• 27:33
  my goodness.
• 27:34
  Oh, my goodness.
• 27:35
  Phenomsyniside is warrigam, but dam is where the entire population of greater Sydney gets
• 27:38
  its water.
• 27:39
  Oh, better analogy.
• 27:40
  It's about half a tea cup in Sydney harbour.
• 27:42
  Right.
• 27:43
  But to use a different analogy, about half a tea cup, interestingly, the other place in
• 27:48
  a very, very dilute solution, the what do you think the toxin from botulinum is better
• 27:54
  known as?
• 27:55
  What?
• 27:56
  Botox.
• 27:58
  So Botox, which is botulinum toxin, is actually, it's a nerve paralysis toxin, right?
• 28:04
  That's why Nicole Kidman's face card moves, is because she's not the unkind, Gary.
• 28:10
  Well, she said it.
• 28:11
  I've actually seen her say, yes, I have used a little Botox, anyway, so this is a deadly
• 28:19
  poison.
• 28:20
  That bug, these three bugs grow in food that's meant to be cold or meant to be hot, but
• 28:28
  is sitting around for a long period of time.
• 28:31
  So this is the issue in your picnic in the park.
• 28:34
  And this is our magical two hour, four hour rule, which says no food should be sitting at
• 28:41
  room temperature for more than four hours, after four hours, you should throw it away.
• 28:45
  In fact, it says after two hours, you should make a decision.
• 28:49
  After two hours, you should put it back on the grill and cook it again, or you should
• 28:52
  put it in the fridge, or if you're at a picnic, shove it back in the eski with the ice and
• 28:57
  the ice bricks.
• 28:58
  But if you leave it sitting out for more than two hours, your only option after four hours
• 29:03
  is to bin it, because these three bugs could have started growing.
• 29:07
  And these bugs will produce a toxin, and that toxin does have the capability of killing
• 29:14
  you if you're young or old or sick.
• 29:16
  That's the range of temperature that constitutes room temperature, because you could be out
• 29:20
  at a barbecue.
• 29:21
  Five point one degrees is considered, you know, that's the range, yeah, up to 60, above
• 29:27
  all below.
• 29:28
  60.
• 29:29
  So it's five to 60 is what they call the danger zone.
• 29:32
  Wait, what?
• 29:33
  Five degrees Celsius.
• 29:34
  Five degrees.
• 29:35
  60 degrees Celsius.
• 29:36
  Yep.
• 29:37
  Some of these bugs will start growing.
• 29:38
  Who's having a picnic where it's 60 degrees Celsius or five degrees Celsius?
• 29:40
  Five degrees Celsius.
• 29:41
  That's right.
• 29:42
  Basically, food should be after two hours, everything from your picnic should be put back
• 29:45
  in the eski.
• 29:46
  No, sorry.
• 29:47
  What I was saying is, because room temperature is the ambiguous thing, when you say I've got
• 29:51
  four hours to eat at room temperature, if it's a hot, if it's a hot summer's day in Australia,
• 29:57
  that could be, it could be sitting at 36 degrees Celsius, you know, a hundred Fahrenheit.
• 30:02
  But if it's in a, you know, if it's in a room and it's winter, it could be 15 degrees
• 30:06
  or if any of my feelings are listening from state authorities, so they're ready for
• 30:10
  just switch off for a second.
• 30:12
  The bugs grow quickest at body temperature.
• 30:15
  So we're talking 36.37, which is quite hot.
• 30:18
  Yeah, hot summer's day in Australia.
• 30:22
  They grow less quickly at 59.9 and 5.1 degrees, but some of them will start growing at those
• 30:30
  temperatures, so you will get them growing less slowly.
• 30:34
  So they, they just want one rule.
• 30:36
  They don't want to say to people, if it's five degrees, you've got six hours, yeah,
• 30:39
  yeah, yeah.
• 30:40
  Okay.
• 30:41
  They just say two hour, four hour.
• 30:42
  Suffice it to say if it's a burning hot day and you've got some prawns sitting out
• 30:47
  on the sun, that's different from if it's a cool day and they're indoors in the shade.
• 30:53
  Yeah.
• 30:54
  And that, that's used, that two hour thing issues, far more commonly than people think
• 30:58
  it is.
• 30:59
  Meals on wheels runs are all less than two hours.
• 31:02
  If you're on a plane and they serve you on meal, if you don't eat your meal, when they
• 31:07
  come and collect it, they, they will take it off you.
• 31:10
  And they will say, if you need something, press a bus and we'll give you another one.
• 31:13
  Right.
• 31:14
  They're not being mean when they take, when they take a clear flight too soon.
• 31:17
  They're like, they're following the two hour rule, but things like hospitals would deliver
• 31:21
  the ward trolley with all the meals and I'd come back an hour later and pick it up
• 31:24
  again.
• 31:25
  Right.
• 31:26
  So you can't just let it sit there and then pick out it all day.
• 31:28
  If you ever hire one of those backyard caterers who do spit roasts or wedding parties, you'll
• 31:33
  find that after four hours, they pack all the food away and they won't give you the left
• 31:37
  over.
• 31:38
  So a lot of the industry, a lot of industry uses this rule that if food is going to sit
• 31:43
  out warm and it does, it buffets, smokers, boards, all of those sort of things, I used to
• 31:49
  work for that, the, you can say brands here, you're so used to being on the public broadcast
• 31:56
  where you can't talk about corporations.
• 31:58
  I used to do work for Sizzler, who's probably the most obvious one for food sitting out
• 32:03
  because it did the salad bar was their entire huntsuit.
• 32:06
  Of the Sizzler salad bar.
• 32:07
  Yeah.
• 32:08
  It's one of my favorites.
• 32:09
  Yes, it was.
• 32:10
  Yes.
• 32:11
  I still, I've still.
• 32:12
  Does Sizzler still exist anywhere in Australia?
• 32:14
  No, it does not.
• 32:15
  It's taken on.
• 32:16
  It went under in COVID, pretty much all in the world, but it started up again in the US.
• 32:22
  I believe Sizzler has reopened in the US.
• 32:25
  Fabulous.
• 32:26
  It's worth a trip just to go.
• 32:28
  So what was the next time I got, I'm going to look, I went to the Bronx to see a traditional
• 32:33
  old Sizzler when I was in New York.
• 32:35
  Right.
• 32:36
  Anyway, we've got to go.
• 32:37
  So Sizzler, when I work with Sizzler, they actually timed everything.
• 32:41
  So something's like pineapple is, you know, can sit there or apples are going to sit there
• 32:46
  all day and never be a problem, but they had timing.
• 32:49
  So they had a list of all the things on the salad bar and they knew where they went out
• 32:53
  and when they came back, delivered in 30 minutes or it's free and pizza chains is also the
• 33:00
  same thing coming in.
• 33:01
  A lot of the catering industry is set up so everything is done within two hours.
• 33:07
  Interesting.
• 33:08
  So it's not just that they're being nice about the 30 minute, it'll be delivered in 30
• 33:11
  minutes rule.
• 33:12
  It's that it might be at the pizza hut for 10 minutes before the delivery driver picks
• 33:16
  it up and you might leave it on your table for half an hour before you eat it.
• 33:20
  You know, your other thing, it stops a pizza chain, a horrible franchisee making 50 pizzas
• 33:28
  in advance.
• 33:29
  Right.
• 33:30
  Right.
• 33:31
  Yes.
• 33:32
  Because they have to be made to order.
• 33:34
  That's why you can track your pizza in some of the bigger chains.
• 33:37
  Okay.
• 33:38
  And just to clarify the two hour four hour rule, we're at my Christmas picnic at the beach
• 33:42
  park.
• 33:43
  Does it matter what it is that we're talking about?
• 33:45
  Because if it's a cooked, you know, if I get say, you know, I've got a roast chicken
• 33:51
  in the fridge that I cooked from, I cooked yesterday or something like that, versus
• 33:56
  I go to the supermarket and I grab a hot chicken in the, you know, roasting oven.
• 34:01
  Yeah.
• 34:02
  The bachelor's handbag versus I've got some raw chicken that I'm going to grill on the
• 34:08
  barbecue.
• 34:10
  Do those behave differently?
• 34:12
  To some extent.
• 34:13
  No.
• 34:14
  Wow.
• 34:15
  The food that's being cooked has had most of the bunts killed.
• 34:21
  Really, it, it's only got the three, the three buns we spoke of, a lot of bacillus
• 34:25
  serious, pastridium botchalone, gastridium profringent.
• 34:30
  When you cook, you kill the parrot, but they got spores inside like seeds and those spores
• 34:36
  will survive cooking and one of the things you're done.
• 34:40
  So if you've got a barbecue chicken and you let it, you put it in the back of your car
• 34:44
  in the next morning, you think, oh, I had a chicken last night.
• 34:46
  Where's that gone?
• 34:47
  So you leave the soup, you get the bologna sauce and leave it on the stovetop overnight.
• 34:52
  What'll happen is as it cools down overnight, when it gets down to around, in fact, high
• 34:59
  50s, when it gets to about 50 degrees, those spores are going, oh, hang on.
• 35:04
  This is okay.
• 35:05
  And they'll germinate and produce the toxin within about four hours.
• 35:08
  Right.
• 35:09
  That's about like 120 degrees Fahrenheit for our American listeners.
• 35:12
  So hot, but not, but not cooking temperature.
• 35:15
  And so the, so there, those spores, which are on both the cold chicken that I've brought
• 35:22
  from home and the hot chicken that I've got from, so well, so all the cold stuff could
• 35:27
  add everything because of cross contamination, right, because I put it in the fridge as
• 35:31
  I might have picked up.
• 35:32
  Yeah.
• 35:33
  You couldn't, you might not have washed your hands properly, went to the bathroom.
• 35:35
  You got to eat Carlisle.
• 35:36
  You mixed up the raw chicken.
• 35:38
  How dare you imply that?
• 35:39
  I would never be the kind of person whose daughter would get some in our poisoning.
• 35:43
  You could have patted your dog and then touched the food, which is why petting zoos often
• 35:48
  make you sanitize your hands.
• 35:50
  And in fact, if you've got U.S. listeners, U.S. listeners will know there's actually
• 35:54
  been major outbreaks in petting zoos in the U.S.
• 35:57
  Yeah.
• 35:58
  And so I was actually just at Dubbo Zoo over the weekend.
• 36:01
  And we did the, you can feed the giraffes with a carrot.
• 36:05
  And everybody has to use hand sanitizer immediately before that precisely because of zoonotic
• 36:10
  transmission.
• 36:11
  Yeah.
• 36:12
  I think the big, I'll say state fair for the American, this is the Royal East to show
• 36:17
  in Sydney.
• 36:18
  They've got a huge farm yard nursery, which you know, you have to queue to get into.
• 36:23
  I don't know if you're taking your kids there.
• 36:25
  And afterwards there's, you can't get out of there unless you walk through washing
• 36:29
  it, sanitizing stations, even kids, even kids who try to walk out, they'll send them back
• 36:34
  and make them wash their hands.
• 36:35
  And that's because of what?
• 36:36
  Eat Carlisle.
• 36:37
  Eat Carlisle.
• 36:38
  Eat Carlisle.
• 36:39
  So it's the, it's the animal poo.
• 36:40
  It's animal poo.
• 36:41
  Right.
• 36:42
  And for your American listeners, they have far more dangerous eat Carlisle than we do.
• 36:47
  We have relatively safe eat Carlisle here.
• 36:50
  They'll, you know, they make you, you know, you'll be in the bathroom for a few days,
• 36:54
  but they've got some really dangerous needs.
• 36:57
  Is that because they've bred them that way through their agricultural practices or is
• 37:00
  that just bad luck?
• 37:02
  Both.
• 37:03
  You both, they've, they've by mechanizing and farming and getting things, you basically,
• 37:10
  you concentrate the sort of bugs and microorganisms, you know, if you're farming every animal every
• 37:16
  same way inside a huge seed, they'll only get the same disease, they're going to have
• 37:20
  the same bugs.
• 37:21
  It's much of the same way you and your kids probably have the same bugs inside you because
• 37:25
  you're in the same household.
• 37:27
  So eat Carlisle.
• 37:28
  When, when you eat?
• 37:29
  So just to pause on that concentrated animal feeding operations, these huge like Midwestern
• 37:33
  factory farms are conducive to bacteria, and therefore the E. Coli is able to perfect
• 37:41
  itself to those cattle feed lots will do the same because all the animals are walking
• 37:46
  in the same poo.
• 37:47
  Right.
• 37:48
  So as we're here, we have a more free range agricultural industry because it is less of
• 37:52
  an incubator.
• 37:53
  Yeah, it is.
• 37:54
  Yeah.
• 37:55
  So isn't it also true that like they sometimes get E. Coli from just eating bagged lettuce
• 37:59
  and stuff because there'll be some hog farm that was spraying like this hog pig sewage
• 38:05
  into some river, and then they've used that water to spray the lettuce with and people
• 38:11
  get E. Coli from salads.
• 38:13
  Yeah, you can get it.
• 38:14
  You can get E. Coli from salads that way.
• 38:16
  We've had manure cause in the E. Coli outbreak here.
• 38:20
  The major way we had a huge Salmonella outbreak in Australia this year, and it was one
• 38:25
  of a dangerous strain of Salmonella, a really unusual dangerous strain that has the potential
• 38:31
  to kill someone.
• 38:33
  And we pulled all of the pre-prepared lettuce mixes and salad mixes in all the major supermarkets
• 38:40
  except for Western Australia, which is so far away, it grows its own lettuce.
• 38:45
  Yeah.
• 38:46
  Of course, it takes you five days to set the truck.
• 38:50
  It literally you can't send food from the Eastern States to Western Australia for quarantine
• 38:55
  reasons.
• 38:56
  Oh, right.
• 38:57
  This is a good example.
• 38:58
  But I mean, even if you wanted to, it's the same distance as going from New York to Los
• 39:01
  Angeles.
• 39:02
  You wouldn't want to send a lettuce.
• 39:04
  Or for anyone in Europe, it's the same, I think, between London and Moscow.
• 39:07
  Yes.
• 39:08
  There's a lot of countries to travel through in Europe before you get there.
• 39:11
  So with lettuce and things like, your major problem is birds and animals poo on them.
• 39:19
  You know, things like birds have got Salmonella in them, bats, but even things crawling on
• 39:25
  the ground.
• 39:26
  You know, like rats and mice and in Australia, kangaroos, you know, things hopping in amongst
• 39:32
  the fields.
• 39:33
  You don't have to spray manure on them, like buns on them.
• 39:36
  Right.
• 39:37
  And of course, they all got dust and dirt blowing on them, which is listeria.
• 39:40
  But I assume that before they hit the bag or the shelf that they get drenched in chlorine
• 39:46
  or something.
• 39:47
  chlorine is the most common.
• 39:49
  And they, I've been to the factory that they do, in fact, I've been to quite a few of
• 39:54
  the factories that do this and they're similar in most places around the world.
• 39:59
  If you think that an Olympic swimming pool has about 10 parts per million chlorine in it,
• 40:05
  which these places have about 200 parts per million.
• 40:08
  Okay.
• 40:09
  So you walk in there and your eyes water as you walk in.
• 40:14
  My eyes water in my kids' indoor, you know, swimming pool as well.
• 40:18
  So if it's 20 times as a potent, yeah.
• 40:21
  And it's usually put in something like a flume.
• 40:23
  If you think about the flume ride to the amusement park.
• 40:26
  So it's sort of like being agitated in, and that gets most of it off.
• 40:31
  Wait, isn't a flume ride at the, isn't that little log that you sit in that goes trundling
• 40:36
  a lot of little water passage, yes, imagine that there's a, like a little conveyor belt
• 40:42
  with all the letters being rained on.
• 40:44
  Yes, I see.
• 40:45
  Then it goes in a chlorine bath that's being severely agitated.
• 40:48
  I see it goes tumbling down.
• 40:50
  But slightly moving it along.
• 40:51
  Yeah, right.
• 40:52
  When it comes out the other end, hopefully it's all washed.
• 40:56
  But what happened was in Australia, they do quite a lot of tests on this.
• 41:00
  And one test was positive, meaning a piece of letters, somehow something stuck on it that
• 41:06
  was not meant to be on there.
• 41:08
  And that caused a national recall.
• 41:09
  Wow.
• 41:10
  Is the chlorine okay to eat?
• 41:12
  Would it want to wash the letters before I, by the time it gets to you, it's gone.
• 41:17
  Yeah.
• 41:18
  Okay.
• 41:19
  So do you wash bag letters and stuff like that?
• 41:20
  No.
• 41:21
  Okay.
• 41:22
  Good to know.
• 41:23
  What about your baby cucumbers, your cherry tomatoes, your other produce?
• 41:26
  Not much.
• 41:27
  Don't bother washing them.
• 41:28
  If you want to wash them.
• 41:29
  And some people have the same argument, not just microbiologically.
• 41:32
  Some people ask about pesticides and waxes.
• 41:35
  If you put a smooth skin thing like a tomato, an apple, a cucumber, capsicum, or pepper
• 41:46
  for Americans, you know, courgette, I suppose, or Eugene using some of the terms of the
• 41:51
  used around the world, those smooth skinned ones.
• 41:55
  If you put them on to just running tap water, just cold normal tap water and you give them
• 42:00
  a scrub with a tea towel, paper towel, you know, I could say, I'm just trying to think
• 42:05
  of the overseas brand and chucks would be the brand to Australia, one of those semi-disposable
• 42:11
  wipes.
• 42:12
  You just give it a good scrub.
• 42:13
  You get 99% plus of all the chemicals in the bugs off.
• 42:17
  Yeah, right.
• 42:18
  What if I choose my thumb?
• 42:19
  Why do I need a tank?
• 42:20
  Can I just rub it with my hand?
• 42:21
  You can.
• 42:22
  You put it between two hands and give it a good scrub.
• 42:24
  You get most of them.
• 42:25
  It's actually easy to get most of this stuff off.
• 42:26
  Okay.
• 42:27
  And if you're going to cook, it's really not an issue.
• 42:29
  If you're going to cook and eat the food hot, no, for pesticides, it might be.
• 42:33
  Oh, yep.
• 42:34
  They'll get most of them off.
• 42:35
  Yeah.
• 42:36
  But I mean, the cooking isn't going to get rid of this.
• 42:37
  Cooking might get the pesticides.
• 42:38
  And so this is all actually a parenthetical tangent to your point that you were trying to
• 42:42
  make about the cold chicken, the hot chicken, and the raw chicken.
• 42:46
  So yeah, what's going on back to your real logically?
• 42:49
  The hot chicken you need to keep hot.
• 42:51
  Yes.
• 42:52
  If you don't, the three things that could be in there for the spores, and it's the stuffing
• 42:56
  mix that we use in Australia, because herbs and spices have a high spork out.
• 43:01
  So the stuffing is probably more risky than the chicken is.
• 43:05
  Is that right?
• 43:06
  Or the seasoning on the outside is probably more risky than the chicken.
• 43:09
  Because there are essentially bacteria eggs in the herbs.
• 43:13
  Yes.
• 43:14
  In the herbs and spices.
• 43:15
  Right.
• 43:16
  And the herbs and spices, when you've cooked them, you've killed the parents, but the
• 43:18
  babies have survived.
• 43:19
  So if the chicken is set to our warm for more than four hours, some of them will germinate
• 43:23
  and reduce the toxin.
• 43:24
  Now, will I make it safer if I cut up the chicken, or not cut up?
• 43:28
  If I cut up the chicken into quarters, so that there isn't that heat capture in the
• 43:35
  middle, it is if you put them in the fridge afterwards.
• 43:39
  So the issue with cold food is it's all the bugs we spoke about plus all the spore
• 43:45
  formers.
• 43:46
  So if they're sitting around warm, then you're, they will start growing, okay?
• 43:52
  But if you've, if you've got a barbecue chicken or large, large hot food, pot of soup,
• 44:00
  full lasagna, moussaka, you know, those rice, Greek rice puddings, all of those.
• 44:06
  Anything that could remain hot in the center.
• 44:08
  Yeah.
• 44:09
  For a long despite being refrigerator.
• 44:10
  A pizza kills really quickly because it's a thing, a large pot of spaghetti, bolognese,
• 44:15
  you know, those sort of things, you've, when you put it in, you either need to,
• 44:21
  eat it hot, two hour, four hour rule, or if you want to cool it down to stop those spores
• 44:28
  germinating, you've basically got to get it down under five within four to six hours.
• 44:35
  Right.
• 44:36
  And in a commercial fridge, five is like, lower than 40 for American listeners or 38 or
• 44:41
  something like that, Fahrenheit.
• 44:42
  Yeah.
• 44:43
  So like cold, actually genuinely cold, genuinely cold.
• 44:46
  So when you're taking it down to that temperature, in a commercial refrigeration, like the
• 44:51
  thing you see at a fast food chain or a restaurant or a manufacturer, it can be one
• 44:57
  inch or two five centimeters thick, but in a domestic fridge, which doesn't have the
• 45:03
  pulling power, the commercial, because commercial refrigerations got last fan units in it.
• 45:09
  In domestic fridge, which are primarily static, it should be no thicker than one inch
• 45:14
  or two and five centimeters.
• 45:16
  So you need to portion the lasagna, you need to decant the soup, you need to get the
• 45:21
  barbecue chicken and portion it, don't leave the KFC in the bucket.
• 45:26
  You know, for example, an inch is overkill, surely that's being too careful, because a chicken
• 45:30
  drumstick is more than an inch.
• 45:32
  I mean, I'm not going to carve the flesh off the drumstick.
• 45:35
  I can put a drumstick in the fridge, surely.
• 45:37
  Squash it slightly flat.
• 45:39
  I don't want no squashed drumstick, Gary.
• 45:42
  But if anyone who's listening who's a physicist, it's simple thermodynamics.
• 45:46
  It's heat transfer.
• 45:47
  Yeah.
• 45:48
  So basically, can you get the heat out?
• 45:51
  Drumsticks are good bad example, because the bugs go into the bone, because the bone's hollow.
• 45:57
  So it actually is the center of the drumstick that is the riskiest part of the drumstick.
• 46:01
  And it's also the last to cool.
• 46:03
  It's also the last to cool.
• 46:04
  It's a last to heat up.
• 46:05
  Right.
• 46:06
  Yeah.
• 46:07
  And it's the last to cool down.
• 46:08
  Okay.
• 46:09
  And then the raw chicken that I've got at the barbecue, that presumably is not so much
• 46:14
  of a worry because I'm just going to cook it anyway, but what about the, I mean, I'm
• 46:17
  going to cook it through because it's chicken.
• 46:18
  Well, I'm hoping it didn't sit on the Christmas cake or in the sand, which is because the raw
• 46:23
  chicken should be kept separate from any ready to eat food.
• 46:27
  Yeah.
• 46:28
  But if you put the, if the chicken, that raw chicken can walk onto the barbecue grill,
• 46:31
  no, it's safe.
• 46:32
  Yeah.
• 46:33
  And so four hours, it can sit out.
• 46:35
  Is that the same rule?
• 46:36
  And then you're just going to cook it.
• 46:38
  Yeah.
• 46:39
  Okay.
• 46:40
  The one of the other things that would remain warm in the middle, but cold outside, which
• 46:44
  I know that there's very strong advice about is rice is a bucket of, you know, you might
• 46:48
  go to Chinese, get Chinese takeaway, you've got a plastic container or you put your fried
• 46:52
  rice in and you pop it in the fridge.
• 46:56
  Now every time that you and I have spoken about the subject of rice, you have said it's
• 47:00
  a deadly killer.
• 47:02
  And if you don't smear it very narrowly, you know, very thinly one inch, you're going
• 47:09
  to die.
• 47:10
  And then whenever we're on the radio, I get in undated with calls from Asian Australians
• 47:15
  saying, what's this guy talking about?
• 47:17
  There are a billion Asians who never do that.
• 47:19
  And I've never been sick.
• 47:21
  Yeah.
• 47:22
  Well, one, you can get resistant to straights.
• 47:25
  So you're probably worse sick at some stage and when you're younger, you know, you're more
• 47:30
  resistant to those strains.
• 47:33
  You're right.
• 47:35
  We used to get lots of Asian people saying, that's the way it's done.
• 47:39
  In my industry, the silly series is actually colloquially called fried rice bug.
• 47:45
  It's extremely common.
• 47:47
  And my state New South Wales, for those who aren't in New South Wales, where we're doing
• 47:53
  this podcast today, New South Wales is actually a special guideline on sushi.
• 47:58
  And there's a special guideline on Greek rice pudding for exactly the same reason because
• 48:04
  rice is so risky.
• 48:06
  And the issue is that bug basil is serious, which is found in dirt, but rice grows in dirt.
• 48:12
  So rice, if you do want to cool down rice, and in most Asian cooking, you do cool down
• 48:17
  rice, you want the surfaces of the grain to dry out.
• 48:21
  So the next day when you're stir frying it, it's not like, you know, my mother used to
• 48:26
  cook rice, which was plug, you know, boil the hell out of it until it's pissed.
• 48:30
  Yeah.
• 48:31
  You all over it and sticks together.
• 48:32
  It's a solid lump in proper Asian cooking.
• 48:36
  You do let the rice cool because you want the surface of the grain to dry out.
• 48:40
  And then when it's stir fries, it's stir fries easily, rather than becoming a paste.
• 48:45
  Right.
• 48:46
  But when you're cooling, you need to cool down now most Chinese restaurants or Asian restaurants
• 48:52
  will accook serve.
• 48:54
  So it's not an issue.
• 48:55
  Yes.
• 48:56
  They talk people who prepare it in advance.
• 48:58
  They're using blast chillers to cool this stuff down.
• 49:03
  And now the blast chiller is the industrial string version.
• 49:06
  Right.
• 49:07
  And there they've got a two inch or they can go thicker, they can go longer because pretty
• 49:13
  much those things will take it from hot.
• 49:15
  That will take it down under five within two hours, almost no matter how thick it is.
• 49:20
  Well, these are, these are industrial string fans for us for us.
• 49:24
  This norm is your point is I order Chinese take out, it comes home, I home delivery,
• 49:30
  I go on the Uber Eats or whatever, and I only eat one of the two plastic containers
• 49:37
  of rice.
• 49:38
  Yeah.
• 49:39
  And I toss the other one in the fridge, you say, no, no, not with it.
• 49:44
  Some of those containers are less than an inch, they're the long rectangular ones.
• 49:49
  No, but I'm thinking like a round one or something or a thick one.
• 49:53
  No, no, no.
• 49:54
  If you're using one of those cylindrical ones, decanted, put it into another container.
• 49:59
  Because in the interior, the Nicole Kidman's face will be gradually, well, let's not,
• 50:04
  that's not that one, because that one actually takes slightly longer.
• 50:07
  Oh, isn't that the one you said exists in the dirt that rice grows in?
• 50:11
  Yes, no, that's a bit serious.
• 50:13
  That one works quite quickly.
• 50:14
  And what's what's the Botox one?
• 50:15
  Kustridium Botulinum.
• 50:16
  Oh my goodness.
• 50:17
  It could make them easier names.
• 50:19
  Okay.
• 50:20
  Understood.
• 50:21
  They are not hard compared to, you know, interest-terrified esters of riddle-laying acid in some of
• 50:28
  the food additives.
• 50:29
  But the micro organisms are easy to get to the food additives.
• 50:32
  Okay.
• 50:33
  And while we're on the question of heating or cooling things in the middle and like the
• 50:37
  middle being the sort of hazard point that you need to worry about, you're reminding
• 50:41
  me also of a difference between e-coli poisoning in the United States and outside of the United
• 50:46
  States because of the way they cook their burgers, which brings us to the barbecue itself.
• 50:51
  And meat patties.
• 50:53
  So in the United States, I like the bleeds in the middle.
• 50:57
  Yes.
• 50:58
  Unfortunately, I have become a convert to that as well.
• 51:00
  And it is really, I mean, it's shocking how much distaste I have for Australian burgers
• 51:05
  now because there's so well cooked all the way through and the patties are so thin.
• 51:09
  But the word is well cooked, well done.
• 51:14
  We've never had a food poisoning outbreak in Australia with hamburger patties full-stop.
• 51:20
  Because that's because it's illegal to serve them anything other than well done.
• 51:23
  Well, even before they made it illegal, even before that, we've never had an outbreak here.
• 51:27
  And that's because Australians eat meat well done traditionally.
• 51:31
  Well, patties.
• 51:32
  Patties, but not steaks.
• 51:34
  Oh, we used to eat steak well done too.
• 51:35
  Well, yeah.
• 51:36
  I mean, back when we didn't know anything.
• 51:37
  Yeah.
• 51:38
  Yeah.
• 51:39
  Yeah.
• 51:40
  I'm old.
• 51:41
  But I mean, yes.
• 51:42
  It's a very sort of 1950s like English, like cuisine of like, you know, just cook the
• 51:49
  shit out of everything.
• 51:50
  Yeah, man.
• 51:51
  I'm used to boil meat.
• 51:52
  Yeah.
• 51:53
  It's horrendous.
• 51:54
  But I mean, certainly in my lifetime, the understanding that it is unsophisticated from
• 52:01
  a culinary point of view to eat things well done has become entrenched, but because of
• 52:06
  the hazards of E. coli, we still do burgers well done.
• 52:11
  Explain why ground beef is such a unique threat.
• 52:15
  Well, we're talking mainly hamburger patties are the most obvious, but there are other
• 52:21
  products out there sausages would fall into this group.
• 52:25
  If people know what the under showy very country knows what a rissole is, there's basically
• 52:30
  meatball or funny shape to meatball or a meatball would fall into this category as well.
• 52:35
  All of those sort of products, when we, if you're, you know, healthy human, pretty much
• 52:40
  all the bugs are on the outside of you.
• 52:42
  And to some extent, your gut is the outside of you and your muscles are sterile.
• 52:48
  And really, it's only when you cut into a muscle and the bug gets into it so that you get
• 52:53
  an infection.
• 52:54
  Right.
• 52:55
  So the same issue.
• 52:56
  I am the animal being eaten in this analogy, right?
• 52:59
  So in what happens is when you slaughter an animal and the meat and with the talking whole
• 53:05
  muscle meat, you know, a lump of meat, all the bugs are on the outside because the actual
• 53:11
  meat is sterile.
• 53:13
  And just to clarify, steaks are muscle.
• 53:15
  Yes.
• 53:16
  Yeah.
• 53:17
  Yeah, steaks are whole muscle.
• 53:18
  So things like cut to people, they cut things like up, sirloins, fillet mignon, the
• 53:25
  rump without the cap on, if Americans listening, the tri-tip, um, porterhouse, the porterhouse.
• 53:33
  All of those are one single muscle where something like a chuck steak is made from multiple
• 53:39
  little muscles.
• 53:40
  Right.
• 53:41
  And a scotch fillet.
• 53:42
  Skotch.
• 53:43
  Multiple.
• 53:44
  It's got two, right?
• 53:45
  This isn't a chuck steak.
• 53:46
  Or no.
• 53:47
  As you go up the animal, the changes.
• 53:48
  Okay.
• 53:49
  So the porterhouse strip-loin, sirloin is the same steak, which if I got up a demonstrate,
• 53:55
  which starts.
• 53:56
  Don't get off the mic.
• 53:57
  I don't want to see you point out your own, uh, your own sirloin.
• 54:00
  So you start at the lower back, and as you go up, which is the longest in this door
• 54:05
  side for, for people who know medical, it's the same muscle in a cow and in a, and, um,
• 54:11
  the lamb cutlet is also along the system as door side.
• 54:14
  Wow.
• 54:15
  Great cut.
• 54:16
  So as you go up the, and poor clawing is the same one as well.
• 54:19
  The eye of the bacon is also the longest in this door side.
• 54:23
  So as you go up, and where is this, this is the lower back of the animal, uh, the, along
• 54:28
  the spine.
• 54:29
  Along the spine, but doesn't matter where along the spine, like how far down between
• 54:34
  the neck and the bum is it, uh, all it changes is it goes up.
• 54:38
  So it starts down right now near the bum.
• 54:40
  Yeah.
• 54:41
  Uh, it's also the big muscle in the t-bone is all of the same thing.
• 54:44
  Yeah.
• 54:45
  Right.
• 54:46
  Okay.
• 54:47
  And as you go up, eventually when it gets to about the middle of your back, it stops
• 54:50
  being one muscle and other muscle start coming in.
• 54:53
  Right.
• 54:54
  And then in Australia, that's the point at which the, uh, boy, the strip-loin, sirloin,
• 55:00
  porterhouse, we use all of those becomes the ribeye scotch fillet, which we use different
• 55:07
  names, depending where you are for that.
• 55:09
  We use American and British names, and they become more tender and more, or they become
• 55:14
  more and more muscles.
• 55:15
  And by the time you're getting up to up near your neck, you're in the chuck section.
• 55:20
  I see.
• 55:21
  And in fact, the scotch fillet is made of multiple muscles.
• 55:23
  Yeah.
• 55:24
  So what, what you need, and it's synced with fat, which is what makes it, yeah, delicious.
• 55:28
  So what happens is if you've got whole muscle, all the buds are on the outside.
• 55:33
  So when you go to restaurant and ask for a blue steak, which is still raw in the centre,
• 55:39
  they all use one of the whole muscle cuts.
• 55:41
  They fill them in your porterhouse, they'll use the rump cap that tried tip, one of the,
• 55:47
  the meat that's a whole muscle.
• 55:50
  But you wouldn't do that up the other end because the blood can go in between the muscles.
• 55:55
  And so you've got to cook the whole way through if there's multiple muscles.
• 56:00
  Okay.
• 56:01
  But we don't.
• 56:02
  I mean, I don't eat a scotch fillet.
• 56:05
  Well, that's you.
• 56:06
  Well done.
• 56:07
  That's you.
• 56:08
  I mean, no one does.
• 56:09
  Yeah.
• 56:10
  I mean, unless they're in England in the 1950s.
• 56:11
  I'm going to give you my advice as a food scientist today, and not argue with you.
• 56:17
  So when you get a, get the meat and you grind it up, you take the buds from the outside
• 56:25
  and put them in the middle.
• 56:27
  So simply the, and then if we're talking beef and lamb or in Australia kangaroo, we're
• 56:33
  talking E. Coli and we're taking that in the centre.
• 56:37
  So we get the buds on the outside and by grinding them up, we move them from the outside into
• 56:42
  the middle.
• 56:43
  So when we're talking a sausage or a hamburger patty, we've taken the E. Coli by can put
• 56:47
  in the centre.
• 56:48
  So to kill that, we need to cook it the whole way through.
• 56:51
  Got it.
• 56:52
  One amazing thing that I learned from you is that on those pieces of meat, a single piece
• 56:57
  of meat where you don't look at it and you can see multiple muscles intersecting.
• 57:01
  But the, you know, the port house, the ramp, whatever that is.
• 57:04
  If you've got a single piece of meat, that cannot make you sick.
• 57:07
  As long as you see the sides of it, no matter how raw it is in the middle.
• 57:13
  It's still raw.
• 57:14
  Yeah, because you, you can, you would smell, it would make you get, if it was old enough
• 57:20
  to be so off that it was going to make you sick, then it would be green and slimy and
• 57:23
  it would make you gag.
• 57:24
  I will.
• 57:25
  I won't warn overseas listeners.
• 57:27
  This does not apply to pork.
• 57:29
  Yeah, right.
• 57:30
  Australia in New Zealand, we don't have those parasitic worms that you get in most of the
• 57:35
  other countries in Europe and North America.
• 57:38
  So in Australia, I've never eaten a blue pork steak, but you would eat that would be
• 57:43
  not nice anyway.
• 57:44
  I've seen chicken breast fillets ashymi in or chicken in Japan as well.
• 57:49
  How does that work?
• 57:50
  Well, I think that breast fillets are whole muscle as well.
• 57:53
  So a breast fillet is a single muscle.
• 57:55
  Right.
• 57:56
  So you should be, I've never seen it in Australia or the US or Europe.
• 58:00
  You should be able to eat raw chicken breast.
• 58:03
  Raw chicken.
• 58:04
  Provided it's seared on the outside, or you can do other things on the outside.
• 58:10
  So things like wasabi, teriyaki, soy, pickling, marinating.
• 58:15
  Well, when you do see these more often is in the seafood industry.
• 58:19
  So the Australian programme, which most listeners know, MasterChef, where they always say,
• 58:24
  it's not Australian, but it's all over the place here.
• 58:27
  The version you see around the world, the American one is copying the format of the
• 58:32
  Australian one.
• 58:33
  The British one, sorry, British, this is quite dry, where the Australian and American
• 58:38
  ones are quite strained.
• 58:39
  Just because I know a thing or two about the television space is a template for the
• 58:46
  global versions of reality television, we've got the pacing of this as a trip for survivor
• 58:51
  and a whole bunch of things that were not invented here, but were refined.
• 58:56
  Yes, here.
• 58:57
  So when MasterChef, they often say, we want the seed, the salmon fillet.
• 59:01
  We want the scholar to be translucent in the middle.
• 59:04
  To me, that means raw in the middle.
• 59:07
  You just pan sear, so something like a salmon fillet is a whole muscle.
• 59:11
  You can just cook it on the outside, and inside is going to be safe.
• 59:15
  And when you were saying wasabi, is that, you know, is part of the Japanese tradition
• 59:19
  of wasabi and soy sauce in order to presumably just surface pasteurise the inside?
• 59:25
  Yeah, right.
• 59:26
  You basically dip it in those sources and it kills the, it washes away some, you chained
• 59:31
  in the sauce and kills the sauce as well.
• 59:35
  So you've got to list microbial load on the outside.
• 59:38
  So you don't, so I think many Americans will think, well, you eat a steak rare.
• 59:43
  So therefore I should work on a hamburger patty rare, but you've just explained that that's
• 59:47
  because there is an outside surface all the way through.
• 59:52
  There are millions, there are, you know, there's a whole multitude of outside surfaces on
• 59:55
  the inside of the hamburger patty.
• 59:59
  So why don't more Americans get sick or do they just get sick at much higher rates?
• 1:00:06
  America, well, America has Ecoli 0157, which is one of the really dangerous strains.
• 1:00:12
  And this is said earlier, they're farming practices.
• 1:00:15
  It occurs naturally and they're farming practices have tended to concentrate.
• 1:00:19
  Does that have interest?
• 1:00:20
  Why is it not global by now?
• 1:00:21
  Like with the amount of travel and stuff, how does, how would this, how is Australia
• 1:00:25
  immune?
• 1:00:26
  Why wouldn't someone have got got off a plane with some Ecoli under their fingernails
• 1:00:30
  from having it in the burger?
• 1:00:31
  Australians will understand this.
• 1:00:32
  Have you seen the border show on Chaddle Saturday?
• 1:00:35
  I come and go through the Australian border and met very frequently.
• 1:00:38
  Look, I know that program showed overseas because I've seen it overseas.
• 1:00:43
  Australia is pretty, pretty tight quarantine laws.
• 1:00:46
  And in fact, one of the major political decisions this year was to allow American beef into Australia.
• 1:00:53
  It's been banned for over 20 years.
• 1:00:55
  But I just mean I'm at LAX and I order a burger and there's just some on my hands and I don't
• 1:01:02
  wash my hands.
• 1:01:03
  I go to sleep on the plane.
• 1:01:04
  I get off and then I prepare food here or something like I wouldn't, do you need more
• 1:01:09
  of it?
• 1:01:10
  Yeah, you need more of it.
• 1:01:11
  It's likely that everything else you touch between LA and Sydney has rubbed it off again.
• 1:01:16
  I see.
• 1:01:17
  If that makes sense.
• 1:01:18
  Yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:19
  I think without realizing like, you know, held a hot food and you pasteurized your hands
• 1:01:25
  and that makes sense.
• 1:01:26
  Yeah.
• 1:01:27
  You know, you ate a french fry.
• 1:01:28
  The french fry would be hot enough to kill where there was on your fingers.
• 1:01:31
  Okay.
• 1:01:32
  That sort of stuff.
• 1:01:33
  Right.
• 1:01:34
  So anyway, so in America, they've got this horrible E-coli.
• 1:01:36
  In America, they are allowed to irradiate hamburger meat.
• 1:01:41
  What's the radiation?
• 1:01:43
  Put it through gamma irradiation.
• 1:01:45
  They sterilize it.
• 1:01:46
  Wow.
• 1:01:47
  So they're blast radioactive waves at it and it kills the bugs.
• 1:01:52
  They irradiate it.
• 1:01:53
  Have you seen how they do this?
• 1:01:55
  I can't envisage how you do they have big slabs of meat before they mince it or do
• 1:02:01
  they grind it up and then blast it or something.
• 1:02:04
  I haven't seen it done.
• 1:02:06
  Most stuff in the pharmaceutical industry is irradiate.
• 1:02:09
  When you're going to hospital, the bandages are sterile, the pills are sterile, you know,
• 1:02:15
  the catheter, the IV bag, virtually everything in a hospital is sterile.
• 1:02:20
  Yep.
• 1:02:21
  And in fact, a lot of pharmaceuticals, things like tampons, condoms, you know, some things
• 1:02:26
  that go into some pretty intimate parts of our body are all gamma irradiated.
• 1:02:31
  Oh, I just assumed like hospital equipment would have been blasted in a hot steam thing
• 1:02:36
  or something like boil.
• 1:02:37
  The big person, a company called Ansel here who you would know in Australia mainly because
• 1:02:42
  they do rubber gloves and the biggest manufacturer condoms are also the biggest irradiators
• 1:02:48
  and they run businesses, even though they're known for condoms and rubber gloves.
• 1:02:52
  Most people know that most of their business is irradiation.
• 1:02:56
  And so in them, what it is is they put it into a huge chamber wheel, you know, whatever
• 1:03:03
  it is, a trolley, a pallet in and then zappet and wheel it back out again.
• 1:03:07
  Okay.
• 1:03:08
  And so that gets rid of the E. coli.
• 1:03:10
  So in America, the hamburger meat is pretty much sterile because they're pretty much
• 1:03:16
  killed everything.
• 1:03:17
  We're in Australia.
• 1:03:18
  We still have all the natural E. coli still present in it.
• 1:03:21
  I do remember during like free trade conversations and around Brexit and like there was there's
• 1:03:27
  always this talk outside of the United States when negotiating trade deals with the United
• 1:03:33
  States about, you know, panicked foreigners saying we're going to get chlorinated chicken
• 1:03:39
  and irradiated beef and like all of these horrible industrial foods that Americans produce
• 1:03:44
  and consume.
• 1:03:46
  Is there, so it sounds like there is something to that, even if the irradiation is benign.
• 1:03:53
  It's unless you're a cat, we'll go there and you'll see there is, there is a minor change
• 1:03:59
  in some of the chemical structure which apparently has an effect on cats.
• 1:04:02
  So irradiate cat food out of America can't be irradiated.
• 1:04:06
  Okay.
• 1:04:07
  There's a note.
• 1:04:08
  Okay, interesting.
• 1:04:09
  We've had a discussion in one of the segments we used to do together on difference with human
• 1:04:13
  food and pet food.
• 1:04:14
  Oh, yeah.
• 1:04:15
  Yeah.
• 1:04:16
  Yeah.
• 1:04:17
  Pet food stand.
• 1:04:18
  It's a harder industry than human food stand.
• 1:04:20
  Wait, they're higher.
• 1:04:22
  The pets are eating better food or less contaminated food.
• 1:04:27
  The raw material is more contaminated.
• 1:04:30
  In the sense of cats really don't care if it's got eyes and bones in it.
• 1:04:34
  Yeah.
• 1:04:35
  Okay.
• 1:04:36
  The reasons of the standards, at least in this country, most of the pet food manufacturer
• 1:04:42
  also meet facilities.
• 1:04:45
  So they're registered as meet facilities, which is a higher level than local inspection.
• 1:04:51
  They are also, most of them supplied the major supermarkets.
• 1:04:54
  So they have to meet these standards for supermarkets.
• 1:04:59
  And they also have to meet veterinary standards because they're into the animal industry.
• 1:05:05
  On top of that, most of the big manufacturers, except for foreign objects like eyes and
• 1:05:10
  bones and heads, most of the manufacturers here in terms of chemical residues and microbiology,
• 1:05:17
  the food is made to human food standards because they know the kids crawl across the floor
• 1:05:21
  and eat out the dog bowl.
• 1:05:23
  Oh, my goodness.
• 1:05:24
  So I could easily eat any pet food.
• 1:05:27
  If it's a well-known brand name from a major supermarket and it's not raw meat, yes,
• 1:05:33
  all those canned dog food, all that kibble, all the dog treats, your cat treats, you know,
• 1:05:41
  you could eat dogs.
• 1:05:42
  I know what I'm doing this Christmas.
• 1:05:43
  You could eat those all.
• 1:05:45
  So if your kids accidentally eat the dog kibble, yeah, that's all right.
• 1:05:49
  Yeah, it's all right.
• 1:05:50
  In fact, I've done that taste test.
• 1:05:51
  Have you?
• 1:05:52
  Yeah, I've been, I've been inspected Mars, I'm hoping you use brand names can't be.
• 1:05:56
  So for Australians and some of these brands are international because they're owned by Mars
• 1:05:59
  Peck Care, who's an international brand.
• 1:06:02
  So I've eaten whiskets, good O, meaty bites, schmackos and denta bone.
• 1:06:11
  I've eaten all of those as part of a quality assurance test at a pet food company, avoided
• 1:06:17
  the taste testing at the canned dog food factory.
• 1:06:21
  What's a schmack I like?
• 1:06:23
  It's not good.
• 1:06:26
  Meaning it tastes a bit, it tastes like a soft, if anyone you've had a salmon jerky,
• 1:06:31
  it tastes like a soft, like a, it's like a, I'm just trying to think it's, it's not like
• 1:06:37
  a jerky like a hard thing.
• 1:06:39
  It's like a baked mince, but it tastes really odd.
• 1:06:44
  And I know why it's all because they spray hydrolyzed awful, they spray rotten awful on
• 1:06:48
  the outside.
• 1:06:49
  Because dogs like that.
• 1:06:50
  Dogs love the taste and smell of it.
• 1:06:52
  Oh, wow.
• 1:06:54
  Isn't there a better way for the pet company to do a quality assurance test than to feed
• 1:06:58
  it to you?
• 1:06:59
  No, they say it's actually the best way, because if you eat it every day, you pick up.
• 1:07:03
  And you know, we're not just talking, they're talking textural, you know, some pets are
• 1:07:08
  fussy.
• 1:07:09
  Right.
• 1:07:10
  Yes.
• 1:07:11
  But how do you know what they're fussy about?
• 1:07:12
  Well, they do taste panels in Australia, guide dogs and police dogs.
• 1:07:21
  The German shepherds that he used for police dogs and the Labrador's that he used for
• 1:07:25
  the guide dogs in Australia, they often get free food.
• 1:07:29
  Wow.
• 1:07:30
  And they do that because they send you formulations or new recipes and they actually see if the
• 1:07:34
  dogs are leotered or not.
• 1:07:35
  Hmm.
• 1:07:36
  Hmm.
• 1:07:37
  There you go.
• 1:07:38
  Now we were also talking before we went to air about the way that the foods that we eat
• 1:07:44
  affect our behavior, our smells, our, you know, what we smell like and so on.
• 1:07:49
  So at a time of year when we change our diets quite a lot and we may be over and dulled,
• 1:07:55
  should we just start with the question of, um, I mean, this is more of a Thanksgiving
• 1:07:59
  question than a Christmas question, but often we have turkey at Christmas as well.
• 1:08:02
  Trip to fan is an urban legend, right?
• 1:08:04
  I mean, it's not, we don't consume it in turkey and high enough doses to make us
• 1:08:09
  try it.
• 1:08:10
  Trip to fans and essential amino acid, you're, um, yet you need it to make proteins.
• 1:08:16
  Right.
• 1:08:17
  And we don't assume it didn't end up to the reason we get tired after a big Christmas
• 1:08:21
  lunch is because we've eaten a lot of what fat and we need to digest it or something.
• 1:08:25
  Yeah.
• 1:08:26
  What what happens is when you eat a big meal, your body goes, Oh, I've got a digested
• 1:08:30
  big meal.
• 1:08:31
  So it switches off non essential functions.
• 1:08:34
  Right.
• 1:08:35
  Um, same reason when you drink a lot of alcohol, your body goes, Oh my god, someone's
• 1:08:40
  taking it a poisonous toxin, I need to deal with that.
• 1:08:44
  And it'll shut off your system.
• 1:08:46
  So you feel tired because it doesn't want you to exercise.
• 1:08:49
  It would prefer if you went to sleep, so you prefer if you went to sleep because then
• 1:08:53
  you stop doing everything and your body can concentrate on getting rid of the food.
• 1:08:57
  If it's the turkey or the alcohol, yeah, if it's that because you know, alcohol to
• 1:09:03
  your body is a toxin.
• 1:09:05
  Yes.
• 1:09:06
  So it wants to do it.
• 1:09:07
  So that's why you feel tired.
• 1:09:08
  It shuts you down.
• 1:09:09
  And so and then the other impacts on the body.
• 1:09:11
  So the types of foods that we eat, do I smell different after eating certain foods?
• 1:09:16
  Yeah, you do.
• 1:09:17
  Oh, yeah, you do.
• 1:09:18
  And the really obvious one that everyone picks up is garlic and onion, which all, you
• 1:09:25
  know, it goes into your bloodstream.
• 1:09:28
  It goes into basically all your lymphatic system.
• 1:09:32
  So it'll come out in the breath in your lungs, you know, breath certainly, but it doesn't
• 1:09:37
  come out in my sweat.
• 1:09:38
  It does.
• 1:09:39
  It'll come out in your sweat, so your sweat garlic, your sweat onions.
• 1:09:46
  And when you were talking about alcohol, what about alcohol?
• 1:09:48
  There's a smell of someone who has had a big bender.
• 1:09:53
  And even if they haven't drunk for a while, so it's not alcohol coming off their mouth.
• 1:09:58
  There's a distinctive smell of like, oh, wow, you're coming in steaming.
• 1:10:01
  Yeah, it's your, it's not the alcohol itself.
• 1:10:05
  It's the byproducts of it coming out.
• 1:10:09
  So it's the things you don't normally smell.
• 1:10:12
  It's also if you're alcoholic, your body systems aren't working as well.
• 1:10:19
  So they don't get rid of things as efficiently as they used to because your body is starting
• 1:10:25
  to shut down.
• 1:10:26
  Right.
• 1:10:27
  And that's in a very severe case, presumably, so people who are chronic alcoholics do have
• 1:10:32
  smells about them, which is to do with the fact that your body is not as good at getting
• 1:10:37
  rid of the smells.
• 1:10:38
  Two things like through the liver, so instead of, it's floating, your liver and kidneys
• 1:10:43
  aren't pulling it out.
• 1:10:44
  So it's floating around in your system, and it's coming out in your sweat in your breath
• 1:10:49
  more often.
• 1:10:50
  Okay.
• 1:10:51
  So alcohol, garlic, onion, what else meat?
• 1:10:53
  You eat a whole meat diet, you start getting meaty byproducts, smells.
• 1:11:00
  What happens to your gut?
• 1:11:01
  Well, there's this whole universe of people who are on, like, carnivore diet, right?
• 1:11:06
  The keto diet is a great thing.
• 1:11:08
  So there's keto, but keto can still have quite a lot of fruit and veg, right?
• 1:11:12
  Yeah.
• 1:11:13
  I'm talking about actual carnivore, like Jordan Peterson and, like, some health people
• 1:11:16
  are, like, have a very strict, like, I only eat meat, but do they ever poo?
• 1:11:22
  The right one.
• 1:11:23
  The right one.
• 1:11:24
  The right one.
• 1:11:25
  The right one.
• 1:11:26
  The right one.
• 1:11:27
  So is that, like, what do you make of that?
• 1:11:30
  Constipation could be an issue, but I don't understand.
• 1:11:34
  Are they having a lot of psyllium husks every day to keep them regular?
• 1:11:38
  I'm not being on that diet, but I'm hoping there's something that's getting them going,
• 1:11:42
  because if not, oh, that's a diet that certainly linked to colobic and rectal cancer, heart
• 1:11:49
  disease, diabetes.
• 1:11:50
  I mean, if you're going to go on any extreme diet, and I'll say just eating meters in extreme
• 1:11:58
  diet, you've got to talk with a dietitian or nutritionist about what's going to happen.
• 1:12:03
  I mean, but they're people who are skeptical of conventional dietary advice.
• 1:12:09
  With some reason, I mean, you know, we're keeping told that, like, I don't know, fat's
• 1:12:13
  terrible and that sugar's okay and that, you know, carbohydrates are great.
• 1:12:17
  And we did our nutrition lectures at uni and part of food science degree is human nutrition.
• 1:12:21
  It's not a huge part of our degree, but it's there.
• 1:12:24
  And we're taught as part of that that every 20 years, something new comes in and disagrees
• 1:12:32
  with something was, you know, eggs were bad, they're eggs are good.
• 1:12:35
  Yeah.
• 1:12:36
  We completely bungled it on cholesterol.
• 1:12:38
  Yeah.
• 1:12:39
  Meat was bad.
• 1:12:40
  Then, oh, no.
• 1:12:41
  Now we have our nine deficiency.
• 1:12:42
  Now meat is good.
• 1:12:43
  Now only some meat is good.
• 1:12:44
  Yeah.
• 1:12:45
  Yeah.
• 1:12:46
  Carbs were out.
• 1:12:47
  Yeah.
• 1:12:48
  Now some carbs are back in again.
• 1:12:49
  Yeah.
• 1:12:50
  Yeah.
• 1:12:51
  It changes.
• 1:12:52
  Unfortunately, can I say of all the food injuries, the thing that's most frustrating because
• 1:12:57
  there's no clear message and the older you get, the more the messages are mixed, particularly
• 1:13:03
  when you, with the internet where you get, it's easy to find any weird diet you want.
• 1:13:11
  Yeah.
• 1:13:12
  And to find an authoritative looking person in a white lab coat who's doing YouTube videos
• 1:13:16
  about it.
• 1:13:17
  Yeah.
• 1:13:18
  Yeah.
• 1:13:19
  Yeah.
• 1:13:20
  Yeah.
• 1:13:21
  I know that I do much television, but, you know, I'm the TV I do where they say, oh,
• 1:13:23
  can you wear your lab coat?
• 1:13:24
  Because, because all sides, because all sides is always doing lab work.
• 1:13:29
  And we always, it's like every journalist wears a fedora with a press in there.
• 1:13:34
  Yeah.
• 1:13:35
  You should, you should say that.
• 1:13:36
  Do you say that to them?
• 1:13:37
  Yeah.
• 1:13:38
  I'll wear it if you put on a fedora hat with a little press.
• 1:13:41
  I said, I said before we started this, I'm actually filming tomorrow for something for
• 1:13:46
  the organization where for, yeah, for the ABC, the TV thing, I'll be filming TV and never
• 1:13:52
  asked that I wear my white lab coat or scientists wear white lab coat.
• 1:13:56
  Exhausting.
• 1:13:57
  So what other things?
• 1:13:58
  We know, obviously people will think when we're thinking about smells asparagus, asparagus
• 1:14:03
  comes up.
• 1:14:04
  Yes.
• 1:14:05
  It's the pain in my life because I love asparagus.
• 1:14:07
  I eat it all the time and I do not like the smell of my wee afterwards.
• 1:14:11
  We'll see, there's not everyone, for those who don't know, there's a, let's say there's
• 1:14:16
  a strong distinct smell.
• 1:14:19
  Some people produce that chemical.
• 1:14:22
  Some people don't and some people can smell it and some people don't.
• 1:14:28
  So there are four quadrants.
• 1:14:30
  There are four quadrants.
• 1:14:31
  There's can produce but can't smell, can produce and can smell, can't produce but can
• 1:14:35
  smell, can't produce and can't smell.
• 1:14:38
  Yes.
• 1:14:39
  So you fall into the, I can produce and I can smell, I can't smell it.
• 1:14:45
  So I'm not sure which quadrants I be.
• 1:14:48
  Oh, it's all over you, you'll be fine.
• 1:14:50
  This is great.
• 1:14:52
  And vice versa.
• 1:14:53
  I have no idea.
• 1:14:55
  You would know.
• 1:14:56
  How would you know?
• 1:14:57
  I don't know.
• 1:14:58
  Right.
• 1:14:59
  Okay.
• 1:15:00
  And there are other things that change the smell of your urine or like I was even thinking
• 1:15:04
  about the, if you're a cannibal, would these things that are changing the smell of our
• 1:15:11
  breath and our sweat and our we change the taste of my flesh if someone ate me?
• 1:15:17
  Yes, yes, it does.
• 1:15:20
  You said that a little too definitively.
• 1:15:22
  You haven't only eaten schmackos, have you?
• 1:15:25
  No, no.
• 1:15:26
  Look, for people who know geography, Papua New Guinea is just north of Australia, they've
• 1:15:32
  actually interviewed cannibals and they've asked these questions of cannibals.
• 1:15:38
  I think it's our closest neighbor, actually, this is a good pub trivia question for like
• 1:15:42
  what is Australia?
• 1:15:43
  Where's the closest country to Australia?
• 1:15:45
  Because I think everyone says, everyone outside Australia says New Zealand.
• 1:15:48
  Yes.
• 1:15:49
  A lot of Australians were saying in Indonesia.
• 1:15:50
  Yes, I think it's the country.
• 1:15:52
  And unless you get asked it in WA, because if you ask what's the closest country to Western
• 1:15:56
  Australia, it's Timor less day.
• 1:15:58
  Is that right?
• 1:15:59
  Yes, it's closer than Papua New Guinea.
• 1:16:01
  There we go.
• 1:16:02
  Here we go.
• 1:16:03
  There's a trivia.
• 1:16:04
  Good trivia, yes.
• 1:16:05
  I run trivia.
• 1:16:06
  No, it's as you know.
• 1:16:07
  Oh, yes.
• 1:16:08
  That's right.
• 1:16:09
  A little bit about that.
• 1:16:10
  Yes.
• 1:16:11
  So I've asked those sort of tricky questions.
• 1:16:12
  Great.
• 1:16:13
  So when you talk to the cannibal.
• 1:16:14
  So think like a cow.
• 1:16:16
  So when you talk, when you get white veal, white veal is usually a cow that hasn't been born
• 1:16:24
  yet.
• 1:16:25
  No, that hasn't been weaned off its mother's milk.
• 1:16:28
  No, no, no.
• 1:16:29
  That's one before that.
• 1:16:30
  Right.
• 1:16:31
  You're eating a fetus?
• 1:16:32
  Yes.
• 1:16:33
  Yes.
• 1:16:34
  Yeah.
• 1:16:35
  Well, it's late term.
• 1:16:36
  So you slaughter the pregnant cow.
• 1:16:38
  Yeah.
• 1:16:39
  And you, the cow goes through the system.
• 1:16:40
  I couldn't be.
• 1:16:41
  So that's a fact.
• 1:16:42
  I mean, that is what a fetus is, right?
• 1:16:43
  Yeah.
• 1:16:44
  Yeah.
• 1:16:45
  Yeah.
• 1:16:46
  That product is available.
• 1:16:47
  You can buy that.
• 1:16:48
  In Australia?
• 1:16:49
  Yeah.
• 1:16:50
  Really expensive, not surprisingly.
• 1:16:51
  Yeah.
• 1:16:52
  Then you've got veal, which is usually not been weaned.
• 1:16:56
  Then you've got yelling.
• 1:16:58
  And then as you get older, your meat gets darker.
• 1:17:02
  Yep.
• 1:17:03
  It gets yellower.
• 1:17:06
  It becomes tougher, the older you get.
• 1:17:10
  So this is true across almost every animal.
• 1:17:13
  So an old person will taste tough, they'll be, they'll be gaining because a lot of the chemicals
• 1:17:19
  that you eat in your diet, you don't lose all of them, some of them accumulate.
• 1:17:25
  So the meat gets more similar between grass fed and grain fed, you know, you lose some
• 1:17:33
  of them.
• 1:17:34
  And often if you're doing feed lotting, what you do is you, you have grass fed cattle.
• 1:17:39
  And then you bring them into a feed lot.
• 1:17:41
  And for 90 days, you feed them very bland cereal.
• 1:17:44
  And you get rid of most of the, the taste, but some still remains, but some, because most
• 1:17:49
  consumers don't like the taste of grass fed, they want the bland.
• 1:17:53
  In America.
• 1:17:54
  Meat that taste of nothing.
• 1:17:55
  America in Japan, absolutely bland as possible.
• 1:17:59
  Australia, it's about 50, 50.
• 1:18:02
  What in terms of what we consume or in terms of what we like.
• 1:18:04
  What we like.
• 1:18:05
  Right.
• 1:18:06
  There's 50% of people like beef to be beefy, to actually taste like beef.
• 1:18:11
  And that's grass fed.
• 1:18:12
  And that's grass fed.
• 1:18:13
  That's grass fed stuff.
• 1:18:14
  And there's another 50% who are unsophisticated, like the Americans and the Japanese.
• 1:18:19
  We just like it to be a neutral protein.
• 1:18:22
  And it surprises me about Japan though, I've had incredible steaks in Japan.
• 1:18:26
  Were they...
• 1:18:27
  Yeah, but they're wagyu.
• 1:18:28
  And wagyu is to be bland.
• 1:18:30
  Right.
• 1:18:31
  So it's more that they're fatty and unctuous than flavoursome.
• 1:18:35
  Correct.
• 1:18:36
  Yeah.
• 1:18:37
  The fats carrying extra flavour.
• 1:18:38
  Right.
• 1:18:39
  Right.
• 1:18:40
  Okay.
• 1:18:41
  That's interesting.
• 1:18:42
  So yes, if the grass can make its way into the flavour of the flesh, then presumably
• 1:18:45
  all of the other stuff that I'm eating.
• 1:18:46
  So we should get older, I'm older than you.
• 1:18:49
  So if we use that analogy, my meat is probably darker, it's probably tougher, it's probably
• 1:18:54
  gamia, because of all the things that have happened in my life.
• 1:18:58
  And so cannibals have said that that's true in humans.
• 1:19:01
  And humans taste like pork apparently.
• 1:19:03
  Yes, I've heard that, but I mean that also stands for reason because physiologically
• 1:19:07
  we're quite close to pigs, the meat is the same colour as pigs, the muscle, it sort
• 1:19:13
  of behaves the same way.
• 1:19:15
  It's the same sort of, it's not white, it's not dark like a cow.
• 1:19:19
  Yes.
• 1:19:20
  Yeah.
• 1:19:21
  Yeah.
• 1:19:22
  Why is gamia meat gamie?
• 1:19:22
  It's the chemicals from the grasses and pastures.
• 1:19:27
  So it is a dietary thing rather than inace.
• 1:19:29
  Like if a kangaroo or a deer had the same diet as a cow, would it taste less gamie or?
• 1:19:34
  No, no, no.
• 1:19:35
  Different species taste different.
• 1:19:36
  Kangaroos, a darker meat.
• 1:19:38
  Yeah.
• 1:19:39
  But it knows what I mean.
• 1:19:40
  Like when we took, when we think about the gamemeaks flavour, the medicines, probably
• 1:19:43
  the most common gamete that's eaten around the world.
• 1:19:47
  When venison is quite a dark gamemeat naturally, lamb in most countries is considered gamie.
• 1:19:53
  Really?
• 1:19:54
  You know, if you're British or Australian or New Zealand where lamb is extremely common,
• 1:20:01
  we don't consider that to be a gamemeat, but in America lambs can sit by.
• 1:20:06
  Many people is considered to gamemeat.
• 1:20:08
  Right.
• 1:20:09
  Yes, it's very rare.
• 1:20:10
  Lamb's not popular to hear.
• 1:20:11
  Yeah.
• 1:20:12
  We're in Australia in New Zealand, you know, lamb's standard.
• 1:20:14
  In fact, lamb roast is a fairly standard Christmas roast.
• 1:20:17
  Yeah, indeed.
• 1:20:18
  Okay.
• 1:20:19
  Let's end by thinking about Christmas.
• 1:20:20
  Is there anything else at Christmas time that is not the picnic or the barbecue that
• 1:20:26
  we should be aware of?
• 1:20:28
  Yeah.
• 1:20:29
  A couple of things.
• 1:20:31
  One of them is done by so much you can't put it in the fridge.
• 1:20:35
  Yes.
• 1:20:36
  Right.
• 1:20:37
  Your other one is how soon can the left over is two hour or four hour rule.
• 1:20:43
  The toxins we spoke about can affect the pets as well.
• 1:20:47
  So cats and dogs can also get sick from those toxins.
• 1:20:51
  So if you think, oh, in search, rude word here, I've left the food out for six hours.
• 1:20:57
  Oh, well, give it to the dog.
• 1:20:59
  I'll give it to the dog.
• 1:21:00
  The dog can get sick from this as well.
• 1:21:02
  And dogs don't need as much to get sick because they're much smaller.
• 1:21:05
  So a smaller amount of food will make it's wider, but why do we think the dogs won't
• 1:21:10
  be like dogs just seem to eat, I mean, everything, they eat poo, they, like, you know, trash.
• 1:21:17
  Yeah.
• 1:21:18
  That's because in you, you've got a small intestine and you know, that does the loop, the loop
• 1:21:24
  and it takes, you know, typically a day, but a dog eats something and, you know, pretty
• 1:21:29
  soon it's out the other end.
• 1:21:31
  Okay.
• 1:21:32
  So the dog's intestinal track smaller, it doesn't stay in there as long.
• 1:21:35
  So the bugs don't get a good enough chance to lodge and get through.
• 1:21:38
  Right.
• 1:21:39
  So it is more resilient.
• 1:21:41
  And dogs have also built up a resistance.
• 1:21:43
  Dogs are used to eating poo and dead bird.
• 1:21:46
  So they've eaten more strains than you have.
• 1:21:49
  Yeah.
• 1:21:50
  But young puppies, if you've ever had a puppy, puppies will often eat stuff and throw
• 1:21:54
  up and get diarrhea.
• 1:21:55
  Totally.
• 1:21:56
  They're poor.
• 1:21:57
  Yeah, poor.
• 1:21:58
  I'm the person.
• 1:21:59
  And a lot of that is them getting used to their buds.
• 1:22:01
  It's why mothers will often lick them to get the buds from the mum into the baby.
• 1:22:06
  Yeah.
• 1:22:07
  Well, it's all of that is to build up all the strains and then they can, you know, eat
• 1:22:10
  squash black stuff on the road like my dog does.
• 1:22:13
  But it's also partly that it's partly they have got more bugs than we have that they
• 1:22:19
  used to.
• 1:22:20
  It's also their intestinal tracks much smaller.
• 1:22:22
  So it goes through much quicker.
• 1:22:24
  And so it gets pooed out the other end before it gets your chance to lodge and produce
• 1:22:27
  the toxins.
• 1:22:28
  There you go.
• 1:22:29
  Okay.
• 1:22:30
  Oh, the last thing that I forgot to ask you about that would be a great note to end on.
• 1:22:34
  Yeah.
• 1:22:35
  It's a more pleasant perhaps street food.
• 1:22:36
  You briefly mentioned that it should be hot like if you go into a roadside diner or something
• 1:22:40
  or you go to takeaway places, it should be so hot that it's not pleasant, you know,
• 1:22:44
  you can't just bite straight into it.
• 1:22:46
  What about when you're traveling and a lot of Australians at this time of year will be,
• 1:22:51
  you know, going away?
• 1:22:53
  We like to go to Asia.
• 1:22:54
  I was on a stop over recently and passing along a street in Bangkok, China town where
• 1:23:01
  the cornucopia of incredible, delicious and also horrifying things that I could eat.
• 1:23:06
  I eat these for those stalls as well.
• 1:23:08
  Yeah.
• 1:23:09
  By what measure do you determine whether I'm like you go to one stall or another?
• 1:23:12
  Like are there rules of thumb about being careful about stuff?
• 1:23:15
  I can.
• 1:23:16
  If it's a pain, Marie, um, no, I'm mostly talking about hawker stuff, but yes, could
• 1:23:21
  tell us anyway.
• 1:23:22
  A good tip for a pain, Marie, once you, you should be able to put your hand down the bottom
• 1:23:27
  of the glass.
• 1:23:28
  If you rest it down at the bottom of the glass and you can hold your hand there, the foods
• 1:23:33
  do cold.
• 1:23:34
  Okay.
• 1:23:35
  It should be hot enough.
• 1:23:36
  You have to pull your hand away.
• 1:23:37
  Okay.
• 1:23:38
  I mean, leave it there for a sec.
• 1:23:39
  Don't burn your hand.
• 1:23:40
  Yeah.
• 1:23:41
  But it should be hot enough.
• 1:23:42
  You can't comfortably wrist your head there.
• 1:23:43
  And you want to put your hand away.
• 1:23:44
  Right.
• 1:23:45
  And so we go with things like this.
• 1:23:46
  Good old Australian pie warmer would be the same way you shouldn't be a, that's why
• 1:23:50
  they've got handles on.
• 1:23:51
  You shouldn't have to push and be able to hold the glass.
• 1:23:53
  Shouldn't be able to hold on the glass of one of those pie warmers, um, same as a suit
• 1:23:58
  to reach.
• 1:23:59
  You shouldn't be able to put your hand and hold your hand comfortably on the side of
• 1:24:02
  a suit to reach.
• 1:24:03
  Yes.
• 1:24:04
  Right.
• 1:24:05
  When it comes to street hawkers, it is a bit of, uh, have a look at it and I'll hang
• 1:24:12
  around.
• 1:24:13
  I mean, remember the marinated duck Maryland in Shanghai.
• 1:24:18
  There was cooked on them.
• 1:24:19
  Oh, she was once a foosball machine, you know, you know, good little sticks with, with
• 1:24:24
  curls in the bottom.
• 1:24:25
  I, I was sneaking off.
• 1:24:27
  I watched someone else eat one and looked when they beat into it to see if it was pink
• 1:24:30
  in the middle before.
• 1:24:31
  Yeah.
• 1:24:32
  Right.
• 1:24:33
  I mean, I, I guess you're also just trusting that the locals know where to go because
• 1:24:37
  if there is, like if there are cooked meats, for example, hanging above, uh, uh, uh,
• 1:24:42
  caught above calls and they're pre cooked and their room temperature, that's silly.
• 1:24:46
  That silly analogy of go where the locals go is actually not a bad tip because the locals
• 1:24:52
  are not going to go so we have to give you food poisoning.
• 1:24:55
  Yeah.
• 1:24:56
  So when I go overseas and I travel in Asia for work quite regularly, um, the two tips
• 1:25:02
  are one is go where there's lots of locals because the locals know that that place is
• 1:25:09
  okay.
• 1:25:10
  The other one, if worse comes to us, aren't the big fast food chains and not that I'm
• 1:25:14
  recommending that.
• 1:25:15
  But if Gary, I'm going to pretend you never said that, uh, they're not going to KFC
• 1:25:20
  in Bangkok.
• 1:25:22
  If I've been in, I've been in places where it's either dodgy food or the McDonald's or
• 1:25:28
  the KFC and I thought as much as, and I work out to call complete inches, I've done
• 1:25:32
  work for both those organizations.
• 1:25:35
  If I'm in the town, I think, hmm, I need to travel on a 24 hour plane trip.
• 1:25:40
  What will I eat?
• 1:25:41
  I'll go eat when the fast food chain because at least then I'd rather not eat.
• 1:25:44
  It's going to be criminal.
• 1:25:45
  And I don't say that I wouldn't eat KFC out of snobbery or because I don't like KFC
• 1:25:49
  just because there's so many better things to eat.
• 1:25:51
  Yes.
• 1:25:52
  In Asia.
• 1:25:53
  If I'm vegetable in a major plane trip, you know, I've, I've got food poisoning a couple
• 1:25:57
  of times overseas.
• 1:25:58
  I've got dysentery and Pakistan.
• 1:25:59
  Oh my goodness.
• 1:26:00
  I lost, I lost five kilos in a day.
• 1:26:03
  Wow.
• 1:26:04
  Um, I've, I've had food poisoning in, in a bay route.
• 1:26:08
  I've had food poisoning.
• 1:26:09
  I did this for a living.
• 1:26:10
  Yeah.
• 1:26:11
  And I know what I'm doing.
• 1:26:12
  And I get it.
• 1:26:14
  Yeah.
• 1:26:15
  But basically, I look at where they're good tip is eat where the locals are.
• 1:26:19
  Yes.
• 1:26:20
  Because the locals are not going to keep going back to a place.
• 1:26:23
  Oh, I'm going to eat.
• 1:26:24
  A bit hard with a hawker who might move from place to place, but at least in my travels,
• 1:26:29
  the same hawkers tend to be in the same place day after day.
• 1:26:32
  Yeah, exactly.
• 1:26:33
  Uh, I would still eat at the hawker and if I get the runs and I have a 24 hour plane
• 1:26:37
  trip, just take some a modium and plug it up, plug it up, carry.
• 1:26:41
  Yeah.
• 1:26:42
  It doesn't always work that way.
• 1:26:44
  Okay.
• 1:26:45
  On that beautiful note of the, of the, the, the diarrhea still seeping out in spite of
• 1:26:53
  the pharmaceuticals, Gary Merry Christmas, Happy New Year.
• 1:26:56
  Thanks for joining us.
• 1:26:57
  Don't probably be.
• 1:26:58
  And Merry Christmas to everybody out there.