Latest / 4-Freedom Podcast / 130. Freedom In The Church - Evangelism and Outreach with Dom Lum

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130. Freedom In The Church - Evangelism and Outreach with Dom Lum · 4-Freedom Podcast

0:04
Welcome to the For Freedom podcast.
0:10
I found my freedom of you. I found a joy I can't lose.
0:19
And thank God it's true. You wrapped your arms around me
0:23
and heaven broke through From the moment she found me.
0:28
I found my freedom in you. This podcast exists to bring the
0:35
freedom of the gospel for everyday Christians with
0:38
everyday issues. Now here are your hosts, James
0:42
Seyfried and Brett Martin. Welcome back to the For Freedom
0:49
podcast. Thanks for being with us today.
0:52
We are smack dab in the middle of our church series.
0:56
We've been in for the past couple of weeks and we've talked
0:59
about everything from worship to dress, attire to service and
1:03
structure. And today we're going to talk to
1:07
our expert on evangelism here in just a few minutes.
1:11
But in the meantime, things have been doing, doing good for us
1:13
here at the church and people getting baptized and we had our
1:18
Easter service a couple weeks ago and man, we had a packed
1:21
house and the Lord's been blessing.
1:23
We've been, you know, starting ministries and and just busy for
1:27
the Lord. James, how are things going on
1:30
in your neck of the woods? It's good, man.
1:32
We're doing really good. Who would have thought?
1:34
13 episodes into this series of In the Church, This is episode
1:37
#13 of it. And man, things are doing well.
1:42
Our church is doing just great so far.
1:45
And like I said, we we are in our honeymoon phase and so I
1:50
enjoy the honeymoon phase but at the same time you know you're
1:54
you're getting to that point where everything can't be ebb
1:58
and flow, hunky, Dory forever. There's going to be some some
2:02
mistakes and upsets and and so I'm always prepared for that in
2:06
the back of my mind. And so just excited about what
2:09
God's doing and we started our small groups for the first time
2:14
back on Wednesday night last week.
2:16
And so we started out with all ages on Wednesday night, all in
2:21
a small group setting. And so was excited to be able to
2:24
do that and just see the Lord bless and see people come and in
2:29
here and just be able to immerse themselves in a small group
2:33
setting that they normally wouldn't get on a midweek
2:35
service. And so we're really excited
2:38
about that and and we're going to run it for the month of April
2:41
and May and then I will take the summer off and sort of re
2:44
evaluate where we're at, but looking really forward to that.
2:48
And so yeah things are going really good with with all the
2:51
things at the church and we're still here, we're still the
2:54
rapture hasn't happened and that's why we're still plugging
2:57
along. So yeah.
3:00
Oh yeah, we're still here. We're, you know, we're not.
3:02
We didn't go through Nineveh and you know we're solar eclipse.
3:07
You know we're still, we're still kicking and we've got some
3:10
things coming down the Pike we want to keep in front of you.
3:13
What do we want to remind you about?
3:15
And the next thing on our list is Indianapolis.
3:17
We're going to the National Southern Baptist Convention in
3:21
Indianapolis in the month of June.
3:23
And if you're a pastor and you're going to be at this
3:26
convention, we want to know about it.
3:29
We want to get together. We want to have a for free to
3:31
meet up in Indianapolis. So contact us, let us know
3:34
you're going to be there and we will definitely meet up with
3:38
you, me, me and James and we look forward to seeing you
3:42
there. And then Next up, I think we've
3:45
got Catoosa. Yeah man, Catoosa, Hope Church,
3:48
Catoosa there at J CS Church with the RFP meet up.
3:52
Looking forward to that. Can't wait and hopefully we're
3:56
going to have a well, hopefully. It's always a great time been
3:58
around the family and being able to worship together, listen to
4:03
the RFP guys and always Father Craig speak to us and so it's
4:08
always a good time with that and looking forward to just being
4:11
able to reconnect it. I haven't been to a meet up yet.
4:14
I've been to three of them that I haven't met someone new that
4:18
has listened to our podcast or shared their story with us or
4:22
even afterwards or even during where we'll get their story and
4:25
we'll record their story and we'll be able to make a
4:27
friendship. And one of those I want to just
4:29
highlight right now is that Shannon Mcogina, we interviewed
4:32
her a while back. We met her at the last meet up
4:36
and she's over in Uganda right now and she's trying to get her
4:40
visa, our church to support her in a little bit in order to get
4:44
that visa. But she still is trying to raise
4:46
money for that. And so we hope you will support
4:49
the family of hope of of the RFP family and be able to share Hope
4:53
with her and help her in that series of trying to get her work
4:58
piece over there. So it's one of those those beat
5:00
UPS that are so great, so beneficial to make connections
5:04
and make relationships that are so vital in our Christian
5:08
journey. And then Brett Next up.
5:11
Israel baby, Shabbat, Shalom, Shabbat Shalom, Shana and hummus
5:17
and and Jesus. You can't go wrong with it.
5:21
And you know. I can't wait.
5:23
I can't wait for the Israel episodes we're going to do next
5:27
season. We've got a lot of things
5:29
planned and man, those Israel episodes are going to be great.
5:34
We're bringing back our buddy Marcus Merritt to the podcast
5:37
and I'm thinking. Doctor Marcus Merritt.
5:40
Doctor. Doctor I'm.
5:42
I'm I was caught slack in my bad doctor Marcus Merritt's going to
5:46
come back to and I think we should even have maybe some of
5:52
the preachers that went on our trip.
5:54
You know, maybe, you know talk about the Israel experience or
5:57
something like that. Maybe we can even have Ben come
6:00
on and. He would be.
6:03
He'd be like 2 episodes late, but he would be there, yeah,
6:06
yeah. We, you know, we we talked for
6:07
30 minutes before he got there. But no, Ben, if you're
6:11
listening, we love it. We'd love to have it.
6:14
We joke because we love. And Brandon, Oh, I'd love to
6:17
have Brandon on. And Austin, maybe we can have a
6:19
group of all the guys, because me and you didn't get it.
6:21
But all the guys that got tattoos, have a group of them
6:24
coming on and just have them share.
6:26
Yeah, it's going to be awesome, dude.
6:29
Yeah. So.
6:31
Well, hey, Brett, we'll jump right into this episode.
6:33
We're going to be recording with the Don Lomb.
6:36
This is the director of evangelism in the Mississippi
6:41
Baptist Convention, and you lined this up.
6:44
And so we're going to jump right into it today, and I hope you
6:47
enjoy the episode today. All right, it's our privilege to
6:51
recognize our guest today. His name is Don Lum, and he is
6:55
the evangelism director for the Mississippi Baptist Convention
6:59
Board. Some of his job duties include
7:01
intentional evangelism for individuals, churches and
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associations, personal witnessing events, and
7:09
interfaith. Now, Brother Dawn, I've had the
7:12
privilege of attending just recently an evangelism seminar
7:15
that you spoke at. And man, I fill my legal pad up
7:19
with idea after idea. I took them back to my church.
7:23
I implemented them with our outreach team, and man, I just
7:26
thought it'd be such a a treat and a privilege to have you come
7:29
on our podcast today and kind of speak about evangelism in the
7:34
church. But just so people can kind of
7:36
get an idea of of who you are, you mind just telling us a
7:40
little bit about yourself, how you got into the ministry and
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how you got where you are today and and what exactly it is that
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you do? OK, well, so first of all, thank
7:51
you for inviting me, letting me be with you all today.
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I'm excited about being with you.
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And we'll just see where this goes and what God has for it,
7:58
and what God, how God can use it.
8:00
My name is Don Lum. I am a Mississippian, been here
8:03
most of all my life. In fact, the only time I've
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really been out of Mississippi is when I went to seminary New
8:08
Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary, a graduate of
8:11
Mississippi College. And I've been with the
8:15
Mississippi Baptist Convention board now for about 26 years in
8:19
different areas. But I've been the state
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evangelism director since 2006 and have had an opportunity to
8:27
to be a Mississippian and see our churches and see our pastors
8:29
and and how we've, how we operate And our churches are
8:34
like so many other states. We have very small churches that
8:37
are by vocational and sometime or even part time as well as
8:41
there's churches that are very large and multi campus.
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And so we have all of those and together we're literally seeking
8:50
to make a difference in Mississippi and and around the
8:53
world and we think that we are we think that we're doing that.
8:56
Do we think we could do better? Yes, we think we could do better
8:58
And we we're kind of like golf. Nobody ever walks off the golf
9:01
course thinking that they've done their best.
9:04
And we always feel that same way in, in Mississippi Baptist life
9:07
that we could do more and we continue to strive to do that
9:10
all the time. I'm from the I live in in the
9:14
Jackson area and that's where where our offices are located.
9:17
And so we travel the state have an opportunity to be at about
9:22
2100 Mississippi Baptist churches throughout the year and
9:26
just glad that we can be a part of it.
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Love it. I think it's great.
9:30
And I do love what the North American Mission Board is doing
9:33
in partnership with send. I guess y'all have Send
9:36
Mississippi, we have SEND and see here and love what's going
9:40
on with that partnership with the local churches and
9:43
associations and different partnerships that we're able to
9:47
have with the the North American Mission Board.
9:51
So 18 years you've been with outreach and evangelism with the
9:54
Mississippi convention. What other areas and why did you
9:58
land on outreach and evangelism for the last 18 years?
10:03
What was the reason for that? Yeah, well.
10:05
I came to the convention board. Actually I came to the
10:07
convention board about 2320, well, 1997.
10:12
So about 26 years ago I came to the convention board and I came
10:15
in the area of youth youth evangelism and we had a number
10:19
of youth evangelism events and things that were going on and
10:21
they wanted to expand youth evangelism and reaching reaching
10:25
the next generation. I came out of a out of a youth
10:29
ministry background to be able to do that.
10:32
And I did that and asked me to do some things about I was with
10:37
Sunday School and Bridge Evangelism in Sunday School and
10:39
I did that. And so eventually the
10:43
opportunity came to to be the state evangelism director for
10:46
Mississippi Baptist. And I felt from the very
10:48
beginning that my giftedness moved, moved in that area and I
10:54
love to, I love to help churches implement evangelism and think
10:59
through evangelism. Oftentimes evangelism in our
11:02
churches centers around one or two revivals a year and and
11:07
that's a kind of a history and evangelism is more than that.
11:11
If we're going to reach the next generation, we're going to have
11:13
to do some some other things in addition to that, not instead
11:16
of, but in addition to that, we're going to have to do some
11:18
other things that allow us to be able to reach the gospel in
11:22
places that people don't normally hear it.
11:26
You know, my goal for our church this year is we have outreach on
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three different three different levels.
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We've got a community level, we've got a state level, and
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then we've got a overseas out of the country level.
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And our local level of outreach evangelism is, I got the idea to
11:46
start an outreach team. And that was one of the reasons
11:49
why I came to the seminar that you were having at First Baptist
11:53
Church Carthage. And I brought a few members of
11:56
my church to hear you speak. And you know, we took that
12:00
information that you gave us and we started an outreach team at
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our church and that we meet every couple of months to
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prepare. This first meeting we had was
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just an idea session just to, you know, brainstorm on some
12:14
different things we could do, how to reach people to bring
12:18
them in for these events. So you know, with that, you
12:21
know, there's a lot of churches out there that that, you know,
12:23
they just come to church, they preach behind the pulpit every
12:26
week and they just leave the increase up to the Holy Spirit.
12:30
The other churches, you know, we need to go out into the
12:34
community and and bring people in.
12:36
And you know, I remember growing up, you know, every Wednesday
12:40
was door knocking, soul winning, every Saturday afternoon was was
12:44
bus visitations and that we would pick a few streets and
12:48
drop the teenagers off and walk down and then afterwards we'd go
12:51
to Taco Bell. But you know, growing up that
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was about the extent of our outreach was door knocking.
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And you know, it's, I know it's tried and true.
13:02
You have to do it. You have to do the door
13:04
knocking. It's part of it.
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But you know what? Have you seen work over the
13:10
years kind of above and beyond that?
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I think that the the world in which we live in society that we
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live in, there's just so much out there in terms of the way
13:25
that people perceive the church, perceive Christians.
13:30
And that's not all bad by the way, that's not all bad.
13:33
I think that that that the church and Christians are still
13:36
perceived in a very highway high manner, particularly in in our
13:41
smaller communities, in our rural areas particularly church
13:46
continues to be a major part of the life of of of people in our
13:50
in our communities. I know the church that I'm in
13:51
serving as an interim pastor of is that very much the church
13:55
centers around a lot of what what the community does and
13:58
knows about. And so I think it's important
14:02
that the church recognizes that we have the opportunity to make
14:06
a difference in people's lives and we and and we don't need to
14:09
think that we're no longer relevant.
14:12
We are relevant and I think the church needs to continue to
14:15
remember that. And I think it's part of our job
14:17
as leaders of the churches and pastors to tell our churches
14:21
that their churches need to know that you matter, your life
14:24
matters. You're not a, you're not a dying
14:26
breed, you're not becoming extinct.
14:29
Our churches have are going to be here until Jesus comes back
14:33
and we need to continue to remember and have our churches
14:35
and build those, build our churches to be able to do that.
14:38
So when I think about evangelism, I think more about
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there are events and yes, events become part of it, but it is a
14:48
it's a mindset. It's a mindset that we have.
14:50
Our people understand that you are the church and as you see
14:55
people as you have an opportunity to invite people in
14:59
Mississippi. In Mississippi, we we kid
15:02
ourselves. If we think that all of our
15:04
people are going to share the gospel in terms of a 1234 and
15:08
hear the scriptures, they're not going to do that.
15:10
And we can beat our heads against the wall and we can be
15:13
and we can complain about it or we can make it or anything else,
15:16
but it's not going to happen. But what they will do is they
15:20
will invite people to come to come to church and we can, if we
15:24
can get them to invite people to come to church and we share the
15:27
gospel, then that God's Holy Spirit has an opportunity to
15:30
work. And so we still, we have life
15:32
groups. We have small groups.
15:34
We have Sunday school which is major still a major part of what
15:38
of the vocabulary in Mississippi Baptist churches.
15:41
And so we say if you'll invite people to church and then I
15:45
always encourage churches to do your do your training train your
15:49
Sunday school teachers so that when when that periodically
15:53
Sunday school teachers share the gospel in their Sunday school
15:56
classes. They may have a Sunday school
15:58
class at the people in in their Sunday school class have have
16:01
been there for years. They know that they're
16:03
Christians. They know all about them.
16:05
They still need to share Jesus in their Sunday School class for
16:08
one reason particularly and that is this.
16:10
Sometimes people hear it in the Sunday school class and it helps
16:13
them have the courage to say it to somebody else even though
16:16
they're saved. And so I still encourage Sunday
16:20
School classes, teachers in those classes or get somebody in
16:23
the class to do it if they if they would rather do that.
16:25
But share the gospel in the Sunday School class so that the
16:29
class members can then be encouraged to do the same thing
16:32
with their friendship, friends and different ones that helped a
16:35
little bit. Is that kind of what answer your
16:37
question? Absolutely.
16:39
Yeah, that's great. Let's say we're, you know, in in
16:42
different contexts everywhere. And context is key in a lot of
16:45
things. But let's say someone's
16:48
listening, maybe they just recently took a church or pastor
16:50
or whatever, and the church has sort of become what we would
16:54
call a Country Club. Yeah, you come and you got a
16:56
membership, You got your members only jacket.
16:59
And the church isn't doing any evangelism.
17:01
They're really not even doing revivals.
17:02
They're not doing outreach. They're not doing any type of
17:05
events. What would be a way would you
17:08
encourage someone or how would you come in and say these are
17:12
some resources or some things that you can start an evangelism
17:15
ministry. What would be the part, what
17:17
would be that process or how would you, how would you begin
17:20
that thought? OK first of all if if we if the
17:24
leader of the pastor of the church, the leaders of the
17:26
church are the ones that have to keep evangelism on the forefront
17:30
or otherwise it's going to slide to the back.
17:32
It's just go that's natural. That's a natural progression and
17:35
it happens in every church no matter what size it is or
17:39
anything else. It's going to slide to the back
17:41
if the pastor doesn't keep it on the forefront.
17:43
And so the pastor has to has to has to be able to do that and in
17:48
order to make that happen and you're talking about maybe say a
17:51
pastor comes into a a new situation and he's learning that
17:54
learning that church and learning those people.
17:56
I think the first thing he's going to do is is gain their
17:59
approval, gain their acceptance and and and literally come in
18:03
there and gain and gain their confidence so that they can then
18:06
feel comfortable in following him.
18:08
And and so as a pastor comes in and and begins to his ministry
18:13
in local church begins to analyze where that church is.
18:18
And let's say that they're at the place where you're talking
18:20
about they're they're focused inward.
18:22
They're not focused on focused outward.
18:24
How can we then turn that and help them to be able to do that
18:27
and make make it, make it an outward focus?
18:30
Let me give you an idea. I went into a church a few years
18:35
ago. The pastor, they'd lost their
18:37
pastor. In fact, their pastor had had
18:38
passed away. He passed away on a Monday and
18:42
after a church on Sunday and he had a heart attack and passed
18:45
away and the church had become an inward focused church.
18:48
That's where they were. They were literally a inner
18:50
survival mode is what they where they were.
18:53
So I came in, I'd been there probably 3-4 months and again,
18:57
I'm in an interim situation. So I've been here 3-4 months and
19:01
I I had an idea for them and I took the I don't know if you've
19:06
seen her tonight but I took the took the the Jesus film and I
19:12
have to have those have those here in in our convention board
19:15
and I and so I took that and I showed one night I showed the
19:19
Old Testament on we we, we did we took our Sunday night and
19:22
they'd never they'd never done anything like this before.
19:25
Well, we took Sunday night and we turned our fellowship hall
19:30
into a theater. I got a big screen and then
19:33
showed the Old Testament. The very first night we had it
19:36
set up for some of our men. Some of our men brought
19:39
microwave bought the microwaves. We made microwave popcorn and
19:42
made the place smell like a theater.
19:45
And we we put candy and M&M's and Doctor Pepper.
19:49
And I told him, I said I'm going to bring all the things I like.
19:51
You bring the rest of it, you know, we just set it up, had a
19:53
great time on Sunday night, showed the Old Testament.
19:57
The next week we did the very same thing and showed the New
20:00
Testament. And after it was over with and
20:02
I, I I told them we were going to do this up front.
20:05
Then I had, I had those, I think we bought them at the grocery
20:07
store. But those little brown lunch
20:09
bags that you can get people used to put their lunches in, we
20:12
bought those little bags and we put a, a a video of what we've
20:18
just seen. We put a track, we put a note
20:21
from our church, and we put a bag of of microwaved popcorn in
20:25
the bag. And and and we had let them fit,
20:30
make those bags, put them together and then they signed up
20:33
to where they were going to take them.
20:34
So that and we were in a rural community.
20:36
We didn't have any neighborhoods.
20:38
We were on the, we were country roads and they signed up to
20:41
where they would take them. And we had about 25 people who
20:45
delivered 75 bags to different places and the reason we wanted
20:49
them to sign up because we didn't want anybody taking them
20:51
to the same place. And so they signed up on the on
20:53
the card saying where they were going to take them and about 25
20:56
people signed up to to take out those 75 bags that they had
21:01
made-up. And we had again information
21:03
about our church. We had some people visit us.
21:06
We didn't have anybody join us. Then we had somebody join us
21:09
later after his wife passed away and he he he was taking care of
21:13
his wife at the time and he joined the church later while I
21:15
was still there. But here's what it did.
21:18
It all of a sudden gave our church a mindset to say there
21:21
was not us it's about them. I can't see that it's just and
21:27
this wasn't hard I wasn't asking them to share their faith.
21:30
I wouldn't ask them to do something that was going to put
21:31
them in a place where they didn't feel comfortable.
21:34
All I was asking them to do is to take the bag and take it to
21:37
somebody's house and give it to them and say we would love to
21:39
have you come visit us at our church.
21:42
And and and that began a process.
21:45
Now that's been several years ago and that church was
21:47
literally well let's let's they were bleeding out.
21:51
They were spending more than they were taking in and things
21:55
look bleak. And now this church has has is
21:58
doing well. In fact I talked to the pastor
22:00
of the church last week and he said we had 16 Sunday school
22:04
this past Sunday, you know and that kind of thing.
22:07
But it had to start somewhere and had to start you start you
22:11
start where you where they are and where you can where you can
22:13
find success. You're trying to find things
22:16
that they can celebrate and that was a celebration for us.
22:18
So that's just one idea. Brother Don before I go to the
22:24
next question a thought hit me that I wanted to talk to you
22:26
about is one of the things that a big take away from the the
22:32
seminar that we went to listen to you speak where the pocket
22:35
crosses and I'll tell you that my boys grabbed those pocket
22:39
crosses and have been given them out and they're completely out
22:42
and they want more crosses to give out.
22:45
They just, they're, you know, it's a great Ave.
22:48
They just go up to people and hand them the cross.
22:50
And I I want you, I want you to talk and tell us about the
22:53
pocket crosses. And then if you wanted to tell
22:56
that story that you told about it, you wouldn't hurt my
22:59
feelings about the way. What we found is this.
23:03
Cross is the most visible symbol in Mississippi culture.
23:08
We realize it's more than that, more than Mississippi culture.
23:11
But in Mississippi culture, people recognize the cross,
23:14
people know what it is, and people will take the cross.
23:19
Let's just say you go to A to a community fair and you see you
23:23
got, you take your take your students there and you take
23:27
tracks and you start handing out tracks to everybody there.
23:30
After the fair is over with, you'll find some of those tracks
23:34
laying around where they had them and they left them or
23:37
whatever give them across. You don't find any crosses
23:41
laying around. They always put it in their
23:43
pocket. They always have it And so just
23:47
knowing that the cross is is available and how different
23:50
people can use it, it's easy to use.
23:53
I like to give the crosses out and when I do like in a church
23:56
setting, if I give them out of church, I'll say take three take
24:00
3 crosses and and then and then as I give them three crosses
24:05
I'll say one of them is for you. You keep one of them like like
24:07
the one you have there on your key ring.
24:10
You keep one and then you give two of them away.
24:12
You give them to two people and you start by saying Lord, who
24:15
would you have me to give a cross to?
24:17
And it just seemed neat how God opens doors for us to to be able
24:22
to use the crosses and give them away.
24:24
I don't live too far from a Chick-fil-A and we have this man
24:29
has passed away now Mr. Wayne has passed away.
24:31
But Mr. Wayne, member of the churches, one of the churches
24:35
here in the Jackson area wanted a ministry.
24:38
He wanted to do something ministry wise and so, so he knew
24:42
about the cross. He'd heard a similar story about
24:46
the cross and everything there. Like you had Brett and and so he
24:51
began to take these crosses and he would take them, put it on a
24:54
little chain like like you've like you've got your keychain.
24:57
Take this card that comes with it and put a little hole in it
25:00
and put that together. And he'd stand outside in the
25:03
drive through line at Chick-fil-A in the mornings and
25:07
hand these out and folks would take them.
25:09
And sometimes they'd say, well, you just gave me one yesterday
25:11
and he'd say, well, take this one and give it to somebody
25:13
else. And what a phenomenal ministry
25:16
that he had. You never know where that
25:17
ministry's going. You don't know what God's going
25:19
to do with it. I give these away, particularly
25:22
in restaurants. I do a lot of lot of meetings
25:25
and things at restaurants. And so I'll take the cross with
25:27
me to restaurants and and leave it there.
25:31
Sometimes I'm able to give it to the individual, Sometimes I
25:34
leave it with their gratuity. But the honest truth is most of
25:37
the time when I live across, I don't know what, how it's going
25:40
to be used. I don't know anything about how
25:42
it'll be, what'll happen with it.
25:43
Occasionally God will let me let me see some some fruit and let
25:48
me see that. So Brad, I'm not sure which
25:49
story it is I told. So tell me which story it is and
25:52
I'll tell, I'll, I'll mention that one.
25:54
But I also have a couple of more as well.
25:55
Do you remember? It was the BBQ.
25:57
It was the BBQ. You came back.
26:00
He gave it to the waitress. That's all I can really remember
26:04
about. OK, All right.
26:05
Let me tell you the story. I know which one you're talking
26:08
about now because there's so many good stories.
26:10
Let me let me tell you something, guys.
26:12
A lot of pastors are going to listen, listen to this.
26:15
You're I come from a family of construction workers.
26:20
My dad, my uncles were construction people.
26:23
I mean, they lived with a hammer and a saw in their hands and
26:25
that kind of thing. I'm a I'm a pastor and and
26:30
several years ago I really became under conviction.
26:34
Lord, you you made me like I am. You called me to this work and
26:37
yet at the end of the day, I feel frustrated because I don't
26:39
see results. And what what he showed me was
26:43
that you're working with people and when you work with people,
26:46
it's hard sometimes to see the results.
26:49
I tell our Sunday school teachers the same thing.
26:50
You you work all week long preparing for a Sunday school
26:53
lesson. You teach it to your to your
26:55
class and you wonder is it is it touching people's lives?
26:58
Is it really making a difference?
27:00
And so I began to pray. God, would you show me results?
27:04
And what I've learned is occasionally God lets me see
27:07
results. Here's one of the results I was
27:11
in, in a BBQ restaurant called Sonny's Sonny's BBQ.
27:14
It's located in Brandon, Ms. There's there's a couple in our
27:18
area, but I was in that restaurant and I had lunch with.
27:22
I think that day. I think I had lunch with my
27:23
brother. I'm not sure but who I had lunch
27:25
with, but I think it was with my brother.
27:27
Anyway, finished lunch, left her gratuity and left this cross on
27:32
the table. Walked out, left.
27:34
Didn't think you can think anything else about it.
27:37
The rest the the young lady that was waiting on me that day.
27:40
Her name was Sunny, SUNNY, Little Blonde, about probably 5
27:45
feet tall. And she waited on me that day
27:49
and like I said, she was very nice.
27:51
And we talked for a minute with nothing about anything special.
27:54
I left the cross, left the restaurant.
27:57
The very next day some of the guys at work were getting ready
28:00
to go to lunch and asked me to join them.
28:02
And so I did. And they didn't ask me where I
28:05
wanted to go. They just said I want barbecue.
28:07
And one of the driver took off and we went back to Sonny's.
28:10
Same place, same restaurant, and sat down across the aisle from
28:14
where I sat the day before. And Sonny was there to wait on
28:17
me. Little girl, the young lady that
28:19
was there, same girl, same young lady.
28:21
SUNNY waited on us that day. We enjoyed our meal, got ready
28:25
to finish up and she looked at me and she said you were in here
28:28
yesterday and I said I sure was. And of course my buddy said,
28:32
lum, why did you tell us you were here yesterday?
28:34
We'd have gone somewhere else. And I said, man, this was great,
28:37
I like this place. Anyway, she as we're talking,
28:41
she pulls this cross that I had left the day before out of her
28:44
knapsack that she was wearing. And she says, you left this
28:48
cross on the table. And after you left the cook.
28:51
And I talked about Jesus, talked about the cross.
28:54
While she's doing that, I immediately take I I don't pass
28:57
up an opportunity. So I've reached into my pocket,
28:59
pulled out another cross and I said, Sonny, have you got 20
29:02
seconds? And it's busy.
29:04
It's lunchtime. She's going.
29:06
She says, yes, Sir, I can give you 20 seconds.
29:08
And I said, Sonny, let me tell you about the cross.
29:10
And So what I said, told her was I said, Sonny, the cross has two
29:13
sides and one side is smooth and one side is rough.
29:16
She's holding her cross between her fingers.
29:18
I'm holding mine between mine and I said the rough side is
29:21
rough because it's got writing on it.
29:23
You see that? And she said, yes Sir says God
29:25
loves you. That's why I said, Sonny, I want
29:27
you to know that God loves you no matter what's going on in
29:30
your life, no matter where what's going, what you're doing,
29:32
where you are. God loves you.
29:34
And she said, yes, Sir, I know that.
29:35
I know that I said, well that is great.
29:37
I said, Sonny, Sonny, the backside is is clear, it's
29:41
plain, it's smooth, it doesn't have anything on it.
29:43
And for me that represents the fact that I choose to love him.
29:48
I said this cross for me says he loves me and I can choose to
29:52
love him. And I said, Sonny, you can too.
29:53
And she says I do. And I said so Sonny, you know
29:56
Jesus. She said yes, Sir, I do know
29:58
Jesus. I said, well, I tell you what,
29:59
take this cross, hand her to the other one.
30:02
And and I said take this one. And when lunch is over you talk,
30:06
you tell the cook what I just told you.
30:08
Then the store Neat part about that is simply this walked out
30:12
of that restaurant that day and having talked to her had a great
30:16
conversation. I've never seen her again.
30:19
I don't know that she might see this podcast.
30:22
I have no idea. I don't know if she's alive.
30:24
I don't know if she got married. I don't know where she is.
30:27
I know nothing except one thing. Our paths crossed on 2 two days
30:32
back-to-back and the second day they crossed we had an
30:35
opportunity to talk about Jesus and based upon her conversation
30:39
she'll be in heaven and and she and I'll have an opportunity to
30:42
to reconnect and all I know is that God gives us privileges and
30:47
gives us opportunities and he's used this cross numerous times
30:51
to be able to make that happen. Let me tell you one more story
30:53
about the cross. I had a guy that in church one
30:56
day and I handed the crosses out like I just told you asked
30:59
people to take them and use them.
31:01
This guy was working in a parts house selling selling heavy
31:04
equipment parts and he said he got to work that Monday morning
31:09
had two crosses in his pocket and he said that he was working
31:12
and said what he said my best customer walks in the door and
31:16
he said, well my best customer walked in the door.
31:18
He said he he he he said Lord just spoke to me he says give
31:22
him a cross and he said when God spoke to me and said give him a
31:25
cross my first response was uh uh and he said he said this man
31:31
was. He said, I don't know if he was
31:33
a sailor or akin to a sailor, but he said he had the mouth of
31:36
a sailor. And he said he walked up to the
31:38
counter and began to talk to me and and converse.
31:41
And he said, he said his mouth was just he just he was just
31:44
coming out all the different things.
31:46
And he said God spoke to me again in my spirit and said give
31:49
him a cross. And again I said under my breath
31:52
and he said, he said the third time God said give him a cross.
31:55
And he said that time I reached in my pocket, pulled out the
31:57
cross, laid it on the counter facing him and slid it to him
32:01
and said I never took my eyes off of him, said I was watching
32:04
him. And he said, the man looked at
32:07
me, looked at the cross, and when he looked back up at me, I
32:10
nodded. He said the man took the cross,
32:13
turned around and left and didn't order a thing.
32:15
He said I thought I had just lost my best customer.
32:18
And he said he walked out, walked out.
32:20
And he said that was on a Monday.
32:22
He said on Wednesday morning he looks up and here comes that man
32:26
coming through the front door. So he said he made his way
32:27
straight toward me. And he came up to me and he
32:29
said, he said I want to thank you for giving me the cross.
32:32
He said God's been working on my life ever since you gave it to
32:35
me. And I realized my language and I
32:38
realized the things I was doing and saying and he said, I want
32:41
to thank you for the cross and I thank you for the difference
32:43
it's making in my life. And I thought what a neat thing.
32:46
And he didn't do anything but listen to God's spirit and slide
32:50
the the cross across the the counter and give it to his
32:53
friend. And God did the work.
32:56
And you just never know what God's going to do.
32:58
And this is easy for people to do.
32:59
They can take the crosses and they can share Jesus and be able
33:03
to make that happen. And it's just a neat thing
33:06
looking for opportunities to say how can we share Jesus.
33:09
Man, I love that. I love the the just the
33:11
practicality of it, just the the easiness of it.
33:14
It's non confrontational. One of the things that I do and
33:17
I try to do it often as much as I can think about it.
33:20
We go at. We eat a lot.
33:22
You know we we like to go to restaurants And so when the
33:25
waitress comes and and takes our drink order she's she's
33:28
attentive. And I'll say, hey you have a
33:30
second. I said can is there anything we
33:32
can pray for you about. Is there something on your heart
33:35
maybe you're dealing with something that we can pray with.
33:37
And I don't think I've ever had someone say Nope I'm good and
33:41
walk away. I've always had someone.
33:43
Well, my mom's really sick right now.
33:46
My dad's having surgery. Something I'll say.
33:49
Well can I pray with you right now for that?
33:51
I said we're going to pray over our food anyways.
33:53
Can I pray with you real quick And we'll pray.
33:55
And you would be amazed at how often they'll come back by later
34:00
and say, hey, can can we talk a little longer and they'll just
34:03
have that opportunity just to open the door.
34:05
Someone's indeed someone's in hurt and we just get to have
34:09
that conversation later. And I love that.
34:11
I love just the the easiness of just being able to to show them
34:15
the cross and just let Lord take care of it from there.
34:18
I was in a restaurant with that very thing and we did exactly
34:22
what you're what you're talking about inviting them to to can we
34:25
pray for you? Is there anything we can pray
34:27
for you about? And this young man was waiting
34:29
and he looked at me and he thought, no, said I don't have
34:32
anything that I need to be prayed for.
34:35
And I said, well, can I pray for you?
34:37
And he thought of me and said, yeah, you can.
34:39
And I thought, that's pretty neat that that in that same
34:42
setting you're talking about that, that that he's allowed us
34:45
to pray for him. And again, I don't have any idea
34:48
how it affected his life. He didn't come back and say, but
34:51
it was neat that in a restaurant like that, we were actually able
34:53
to to pray for him specifically. Yeah, do that.
34:57
That's just a neat way that we can we continue to share Jesus
35:00
with folks. Love it and absolutely love.
35:02
It Amen. Well, well we we talked about
35:06
how you know a church that maybe who's that's not doing any
35:09
anything. How we how you could you know
35:11
start something going. But there are a lot of churches
35:14
out there. They kind of feel like things
35:17
have gotten stale, like they've done the same thing over and
35:21
over and they're spinning their wheels or not getting any
35:24
traction and they're still not growing.
35:27
And a lot of it has to do with with traditions and stuff like
35:31
that. They they don't want to change,
35:33
you know, they don't want to do anything like that.
35:37
You know, they don't want to think out-of-the-box, just do
35:39
what they've always doing. I like what y'all are doing in
35:43
the at the fair with with the side by side and opening up that
35:48
to the churches. And in a minute if you want to
35:50
talk about that, you can. I think that's a great tool, how
35:53
you're allowing the churches to use that.
35:55
It's the avenue of outreach that we just haven't had before.
35:59
So when it comes to evangelism, if you think churches just need
36:03
to keep doing what they're doing, or do some churches need
36:06
to change up their message because we've got social media,
36:10
we've got modern culture, things are changing.
36:13
So I guess the question is, some churches may be asking do I need
36:17
to change what I'm doing? Well, that's an individual
36:23
church thing from to go from there.
36:26
Oftentimes when you begin to change, sometimes you know,
36:30
change, change, real change occurs slow.
36:33
You can change anything on on a dime but for for it to really
36:37
sink in is is it. It takes a while for people to
36:39
buy into it and for them to embrace it and say this is what
36:43
we want to do and and so that takes that takes time for some
36:47
folks. And so I don't agree with the
36:49
fact that you change for the sake of change.
36:52
I think that you change in order to accomplish something.
36:55
You change to make it happen and you and and as you do that then
37:00
you have the opportunity to for God to take harmony and peace.
37:04
Let's face it, nobody wants to be a part of something that's
37:06
not harmonious. I mean I got out of a deer hunt.
37:10
I I got out of a of a of a of a deer club one year because it
37:13
wasn't harmonious. I didn't want to be a part of
37:15
it. It wasn't harmonious.
37:16
And I don't want to go to a church that's not going to to
37:18
work together and and seek to to build a Kingdom.
37:22
And so I will try to be harmonious with what we're
37:24
trying to accomplish and I believe you can do that when you
37:26
do it in the right way. Creativity is something that a
37:31
pastor or to be a part of on a continual basis as the leader of
37:35
the church, as a pastor. I mean, let's just, let's take,
37:37
let's just take David for instance.
37:39
Let's go back to the Old Testament.
37:40
What if David went to the same patches of four patches of grass
37:43
all the time with the sheep? Eventually, sometimes it would
37:46
finally get eaten down. And he had to be creative in
37:50
order to find the right places for a sheep to be able to eat
37:52
and drink and be safe and to take care of him.
37:55
And that's a maybe a simple analogy but it's the truth.
37:59
As as you and I as pastors, we have to we have to constantly
38:03
think what is it that we can do to lead our people to help them
38:07
think about outreach and touching people's lives and
38:10
being evangelistic and and what we're what we're trying to
38:13
accomplish. And let's face it, some folks
38:16
aren't real creative. I'm not a real creative guy by
38:18
myself. I like to be creative with
38:20
people. I find myself most creative,
38:23
just like y'all are doing together.
38:25
I find myself most creative when I've got two or three or four
38:28
people around me and we can brainstorm some ideas because I
38:32
may say something that triggers something in somebody else's
38:35
mind that creates a great idea or vice versa.
38:38
And so I think creativity is a key for for us in in ministry to
38:43
be able to do whatever we're doing and and keep it fresh and
38:48
make it positive and then to help folks to be able to see the
38:51
results and what we're trying to accomplish.
38:53
So I think through being creative is a key for a pastor
38:57
as he seeks to to lead a church. Just to think how can we make
39:01
some good things happen and reach people?
39:06
Yeah, tell me now if I'm answering your question.
39:08
If I'm not, lead me further so that I can answer your question
39:11
the way that you and and what you're asking me, OK?
39:14
Yeah, I think that answered my question very well.
39:17
Before I throw it over to James for his thoughts, can you tell
39:21
us about the rodeo and the fair and what's going on in the state
39:24
of the Mississippi in that regard 'cause I think, I think
39:27
our listeners would love to hear that.
39:29
Sure, sure. Let me let me give you a little
39:32
bit of background. I was invited to be a part of
39:37
the National Finals Rodeo, which is a a national thing, just like
39:42
Little League Baseball, just like Little League World Series.
39:44
They have a national finals for junior high and high school
39:47
rodeo. The junior high is in.
39:50
I don't, I don't remember the town, but it's in Tennessee this
39:54
year. The national finals for high
39:55
school is in Rock Springs, WY. I went to that one year to be a
40:00
part of that and to share Jesus there and to see how they did
40:05
it. And I realized we could do the
40:06
same thing. In Mississippi we have what we
40:09
call the Dixie National Livestock and Rodeo Show.
40:12
Here in Mississippi it's always in the end of January, 1st of
40:16
February. It's about about three or four
40:17
week. Event the rodeo only lasts about
40:21
seven days but the whole stock stock show lasts about three or
40:23
four weeks with all the things that they do.
40:26
But but I realized that we could do the very same thing here And
40:29
then they asked us three years ago that during COVID when they
40:34
asked us to expand that to the Mississippi State Fair.
40:39
So here's what we do. We we rent a space at the at the
40:43
at the fairgrounds. We put a we put a tent up.
40:47
I put a 20 by 30 tent up and we use that space wise and and I
40:54
buy, I buy a side by side like a John Deere Gator or a or a
40:59
Kubota mule or something like that.
41:01
But I don't buy one of those those machines.
41:03
I buy but I buy a machine that will work something that people
41:07
will say, hey I'll give you 3 minutes to talk about Jesus, if
41:10
I have an opportunity to win that machine.
41:12
So we use that as our bait. That is our hook, you know.
41:15
And so we've what we've done is we've begun to train and we've
41:19
constant for us, we're teaching and helping Mississippi Baptists
41:23
understand that this becomes a real life laboratory.
41:28
They can come and learn how to share their faith and be able to
41:31
do it in a really great setting. And when they leave, they say I
41:35
have, I have learned how to share Jesus with somebody.
41:38
I've never done it before. I've never done anything like
41:40
like this before, but they've learned how to share Jesus.
41:43
And so over the past, I'd say seven or eight years, and
41:48
particularly with the last three years down at the State Fair,
41:52
we've seen hundreds of Mississippi Baptists literally
41:55
not just say they've learned how to share their faith in a in a
41:58
fellowship hall or a Sunday school class, but actually do it
42:02
with people they didn't know. And to have an opportunity to in
42:06
3 minutes to say Jesus changed my life and let me tell you
42:08
about it. And so that's what we've done
42:11
and that's what we do. We do that we sit with the State
42:14
Fair is always in October and the Dixie National is always in
42:18
February. And so those two different times
42:20
of the year we share Jesus, we do it out in the public.
42:24
Pretty neat to see God work and do the do those things.
42:28
We'll average about one in 10 or one in 15 who give their life to
42:33
Jesus. That's a pretty good average for
42:36
us. That's great, man.
42:38
I love that. I love that we're so often, and
42:42
I say this so often, we said even last week when we recorded,
42:45
we've got to meet people where they're at.
42:48
We've got to find the common ground.
42:50
We've got to find the the, the the town square where people are
42:54
meeting, where people are gathering, whether that's in a
42:57
location like a fair, whether that's at a grocery store,
43:01
whether that's at a, you know, I said it in like an urban area or
43:05
a a city area like a a street corner.
43:07
You know, there's nothing wrong with telling people about Jesus
43:10
on the street corner. It's just going in the right way
43:12
and the right manner. And I love that.
43:15
I love what you guys are doing and I love, you know, even what
43:19
our convention's doing here in North Carolina and the the the
43:22
equipping that the conventions are giving right now to
43:25
churches. It's so great with the
43:27
partnership with the North American Mission board and I
43:29
love love hearing those stories. And I hope it's an encouragement
43:34
to our listeners that you can do these things as well.
43:36
And there's not a lot of training that goes into just
43:38
simply praying with someone you know, You can just simply ask
43:41
someone, hey, can I pray with you?
43:43
And you don't know where that conversation is going to go,
43:46
man. There's been many times where
43:49
I'll have someone that I'll say that to and they'll literally
43:51
just break down in tears and say I've been wanting someone to
43:54
pray with me and that, you know, you just have that opportunity
43:57
and so, so thankful for that. Let me share with you.
44:00
Let me share with you 3 instances of how this happening
44:02
with us. We have a church down in
44:04
southern part of the state, small small community that once
44:08
a month they go to the to the grocery store, sit outside, have
44:13
a tent just of one of those small tents that they sit
44:15
outside, give away bibles and pray with folks.
44:19
Yeah, at a church in North Mississippi, they have a fan.
44:22
They have a fair day at the in the, in the, in the, in the city
44:25
and they'll set up the tent same way on the Main Street because
44:30
Main Street's blocked off that day where people are just
44:31
walking around and they'll set a tent up.
44:33
And they said one of the neat things is we're talking to
44:35
people that we know, we're talking to people that we rub
44:37
shoulders with on a regular basis and to be able to make
44:41
that happen. Pretty neat.
44:42
We have another another couple of guys that help us in in the
44:45
fair ministry and they they're hooked into a local rodeo and
44:50
they'll go to that rodeo and and just people just gobs of people
44:53
from all walks of life are going to come out for an app for
44:55
weekend rodeo and they have an opportunity just to share Jesus
44:59
in in a wholly different setting.
45:00
So again less like you're saying finding place where people are,
45:04
go where the people are, that's what you're looking at.
45:06
Go where the people are. That's what you're talking
45:08
about. Love it.
45:10
Our association has a standing offer from the local Walmart in
45:14
Elkin, NC with a prayer tent already built.
45:17
Bought. And any church that wants to at
45:20
any time can set it up, run it for an hour, 2 hours, as long as
45:23
they want. And we've got the invitation
45:26
from them where we've worked that out over the years.
45:29
And so that's just an opportunity for us to be there
45:32
and plant seeds and serve the community.
45:34
So yeah. Brett and our folks, our folks
45:37
really embrace it. They do a good job with it.
45:40
Yeah. Well, Brother Don, if if there
45:42
was a church or pastor or church members listening to this
45:47
podcast episode and they're thirsty for knowledge on
45:50
evangelism, how to expand evangelism in their church, what
45:54
are some closing thoughts that you would like to leave with
45:58
them and anything else that you'd like to mention?
46:02
Well, first of all, I'd be glad to talk to them and I'd be glad
46:04
to do that. And I can do that through y'all
46:06
or through through me. But let me do can I give you
46:08
contact information? Absolutely.
46:10
That sure notes as well, yeah. It's Delum DLUM at MBCB, which
46:19
stands for Mississippi Baptist Convention Board at mbcb.org.
46:24
So they can reach me that way. They can call our office direct
46:28
at 601-292-3278, 601-292-3278, they can call our office direct.
46:40
We'll be glad to answer questions or talk to folks.
46:42
Always love them. Help folks focus on evangelism.
46:46
So that's the two ways to to to connect with us and to be able
46:49
to do that. We are the resource, we are the
46:54
resource people in in this Mississippi Baptist convention.
46:57
And and by the way, let me just say this, you mentioned North
47:00
American Mission board a few minutes ago.
47:03
I love where the North American Mission Board Evangelism team is
47:05
right now. We have a really good evangelism
47:08
team in the North American Mission board and they are a
47:12
great resource for men, women, all different kinds of events.
47:17
And so all of the churches that you're that you probably are
47:20
going to get this podcast will know how to reach the North
47:23
American Mission Board and and reach them in the evangelism
47:27
evangelism office. And they are great resource
47:29
people with some really good resources available to help you
47:33
and help us in this, help do us do ministry And I partner with
47:37
them regularly and lift them up and appreciate them very, very
47:40
much. So those good folks.
47:42
But we have resources here as well from tracks we do a
47:46
ministry at at 4th of July. 4th of July will be the next next
47:54
thing coming along. We have tracks and door hangers
47:57
for for 4th of July that are available.
48:00
We just think that what you talked about earlier Brett was
48:02
knocking on doors and going by people and and inviting people.
48:05
We just believe that's important and we still encourage folks to
48:09
do that. We encourage folks to focus on
48:13
revivals and we make attracts and and materials available to
48:17
them. By the way, guys, when you talk
48:19
about revivals, there are really two kinds of revivals,
48:23
evangelistic revivals and then their church revivals.
48:26
Usually a good church revival will lead to evangelism, yes,
48:29
but some churches want to want to want a.
48:33
The kind of revival you want also needs to be the kind of
48:37
speaker you bring in. If you're bringing in a a guy
48:40
who's who's going to draw the net every night and yet you
48:42
don't have lost people there, it's going to be a long week.
48:46
So if you're looking for a church revival where you're
48:48
really trying to focus on helping your church focus on
48:51
revival, then you're looking at a different kind of kind of
48:55
environment, a different kind of speaker.
48:56
And so those are things that that you can help people to
48:59
understand when we're dealing with revival.
49:02
But we have resources to help churches do as they deal with
49:05
that we have resources to get ready for for Halloween.
49:09
The the when I say Halloween that that's that sometimes
49:13
strikes a chord in in in in pastors and churches and the way
49:17
that they view that. Let me simply say this the fall
49:20
festival, the fall festival in my opinion in Mississippi is the
49:26
greatest opportunity for reaching prospects of any event
49:31
that we have. Let me tell you what Fall
49:33
festival is. A place where moms and dads are
49:36
looking for a place where they can bring their children that's
49:39
safe, has a great environment, and the church always provides
49:42
it. The church provides a great
49:44
environment for folks to bring their children.
49:46
And we're not going to scare them to death.
49:48
We're not going to talk about Halloween stuff and witches and
49:50
goblins and all that things. We're just going, we're going to
49:52
have a great time with them. And so they're looking for
49:55
places to bring them. What you can do is you can have
49:57
them sign in as they come in. Now you've got information about
50:01
who those people are and you can visit them.
50:04
And if you go to their house and knock on their door and they
50:06
look at you, like, why are you knocking on my door?
50:08
Your response is because you came to us first, you came to
50:11
us, we're just coming back and following up with you.
50:14
And so the fall festival is a great way to be able to touch
50:18
people's lives and make some differences.
50:20
And then of course you follow that up with with the the, the
50:22
Christmas and the Thanksgiving and Christmas, with the
50:26
different events and things that that you can always share Christ
50:30
with and looking for ways to do that.
50:31
So anyway, I can go on and on, but that's enough.
50:36
Well, I love it and thank you so much for coming on and sharing
50:38
your wisdom and what you guys are doing there in Mississippi
50:42
and and really all of our conventions and I love, I've
50:46
only been in Southern Baptist for eight years, nine years now.
50:49
And I I just love the partnership I I've shared
50:52
several times you know in I, I was in Idaho for four years and
50:57
I just met with youth pastors. We were independent church and I
51:01
met with youth pastors from all different types of
51:04
denominations. And I thought, man, this would
51:05
be awesome to do. Little did I know there was an
51:08
organization, the Southern Baptist Commission, that did
51:10
that on a regular basis where we share ideas, we share what's
51:13
going on, a community of pastors that can help pray for one
51:17
another and it's just a blessing.
51:19
And so thank you so much for coming on and sharing that with
51:21
us and hopefully you guys will reach out.
51:24
I'll put all this information in the show notes so you can reach
51:27
out to dawn if you need to, and until next time to God.
51:31
Not the pastor. Be the glory.
51:33
Found my new name. Found that good grace.
51:38
Found that healing. And the tears fell down my face.
51:42
When I found my beginning. That has no ending.
51:44
Found that second chance. Found my best friend.
51:47
Found my forgiveness. Found my happiness.
52:05
Thanks for listening to the For Freedom podcast.
52:08
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