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Sitting Down with Stephen Donnelly - Donnelly Financial Planning · Cash Lads

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Cash Lads.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Paul Malloy from BoxcleverTacks.ie and this is Marcus Doyle from Clear Financial.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: We're here to take the mystery out of money and finance with some history, some stories, and plenty of humor too.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone, uh thanks for coming along today.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh today we have Marcus and I have a guest.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: We have Stephen Donnelly.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Stephen has his own um business, um FTP.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Donnelly Financial Planning.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: And um we're going to I suppose Stephen, you kind of went out on your own um fully, uh I suppose a few years back.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's one of the reasons we we've asked you to come along.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: Um give me loads of advice because I'm doing it now.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, as Marcus is now getting it going down the road, so he'll certainly be pay paying attention.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: He normally doesn't listen to me, so he'll certainly be listening to Stephen.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I suppose just going back a while, Stephen, what what kind of got you into life and pension sector?
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, where where was your start in the industry?
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, um I I worked in the hospitality industry for years.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um I was one of the managers in one of the when it was voted Ireland's best restaurant back in the mid-90s, and we grey crack really enjoyed it.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: And then I moved from there because kind of tired of doing weekends and nights, and um Golden Pages came along and offered me a role as a sales rep.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I really loved that.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: That was a great place, great gig, really enjoyed that.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Well, a very close friend of mine um was in the life and pensions business.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: He was the national pensions manager for Irish Life, and he was always at me to come into this business because I have kind of that kind of mind, that brain, that analytical brain, and figures.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: I like figures and I like seeing what figures do in the future and stuff like that.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: So he got me into Irish Life.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was a bank assurance consultant with PTSB, so I ran the bank assurance in the Slorgan Bank, then I went to Stevens Green and Grafton Street.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: And Stevens Green and Brass Grafton Street are two of the four biggest branches that they have.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: So that went really well for me.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then this person who brought me into Irish Life, he went off and set up his own brokerage.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: And the business model was buying one-man brokerages, and he bought a very successful brokerage, and he asked me to come along and run that brokerage for him.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: So that's how I got into brokerage.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I really enjoyed that, and uh, that went really well for a while.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: Then we hit the great financial crash of 08 to 10.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Things didn't go as well as they had been going.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and there was a couple of changes in the business and then a couple of changes with income and stuff like that.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, I went back to him and his business partner.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Listen, we're changing incomes, I understand why, but I'd like a percentage of the business, and they weren't prepared to pass the percentage on.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it's okay, that's fine.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we leave as friends, which we are, we're still very close friends, the two of us.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, but I went then to Acorn Life, they approached me, asked me to set up a branch, set up a couple of branches for them.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I always wanted to get in brokerage myself.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: I always wanted to do my own thing.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: So with small children and mortgages and that, having an income is very important.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then two and a half years ago, well, three years ago, I made the decision.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna set up my own brokerage.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: So open them two and a half years.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: We'll get to that just before we before we talk about the new business that you've set up.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um I always felt that there was probably a bit too many people in the industry.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Life and pensions.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I felt that there was a kind of a a big group that knew what they were doing and a very and a big group that didn't.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that we didn't necessarily need both groups.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think the industry should make it harder for people to get in?
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Or is that not a problem?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I I actually don't think it is.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: I actually think it is hard to get into the the business.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: It is hard because you have to get central bank authorization.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: Now, while they have they have made the time frame a lot shorter.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like when I was when I've initially broached this, now it's about 20 years ago I was going to go into brokerage, but I couldn't get in because it was too penal and too hard to get in.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: I couldn't, I couldn't, the central bank guidelines were way too severe.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: But they've made that a little bit easier.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: But then even when I set up mine, it took about nine months to get my authorization.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: But they have that down to three, four, five months now, which is really good.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: But that's only four qualified people.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: Unqualified people can't get into the industry.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: Unqualified people have to go, have to attach themselves effectively to somebody else.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_01: They certainly can't do it themselves.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: You have to get qualified, you have to have experience.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: You have to have, I think now I I can't remember, but Marcus, you might know.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think you have to have a minimum of two years' experience in the business in the industry to get authorization.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and it's an absolute minimum, like it's oh yeah, I didn't look at that, wasn't it?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're QFA'd and whatever.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, CFP.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I probably didn't have to check those requirements.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but oh and then obviously because I worked in the life offices, you are in sort of that's experience is a good as well because you work on the other side as well.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: So, but yeah, no, I probably didn't check out all the primers, but yeah.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: But they look at all of that because I do know of a couple of people that didn't get and can't get authorization, and they've tried and they have been in the business or have to be in a similar auctioneering or something like that, and they can't get an authorization.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not that easy to get.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's just you might be in the circle of people who are finding it easier, but it's because like Marcus, 19 years' experience, why wouldn't you get authorization?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, no, absolutely.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I I I I doubt there's many people, you know, try you know working somewhere for two years and then trying to start up their own thing.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, but that sounds to me like not enough time.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: No, very few, but but think the insurance companies don't give agencies too easily either.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: So you could get authorization and go to an insurance company.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: I know one, I won't name names, but one has said we're cutting back on agencies.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it's there's it there's more than one layer to becoming a broker and getting into brokerage.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: Cool.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: Can we take you back to September 15th, 2008?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: It was a Monday, it was when layman's collapse.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: Can you remember uh can you recall what your thoughts were at that time and what you thought maybe was coming next?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um no, it was a strange time.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: I do I do remember it because I do remember every day we used to say markets are down two percent again, markets down five percent, but they gradually went down.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't just fall off a cliff, even though it felt like they did, they didn't.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: So when layman's layman's didn't have a huge impact on us, to be very honest.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: It panicked people, it scared people a little bit, but it didn't have a huge because I think people were up more looking like Fannie Mae and what was the other mortgage companies, yeah.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: There was the big insurance, they were under huge pressure as well at the time.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: So um no, it didn't have it.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: It was more our industry is great when the economy is going well, people want to speak to us.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: In my opinion, a good broker, when the economy is not going well or stuff like that happens, we should be speaking to clients.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's when we should be speaking to clients.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I remember telling you years ago, Paul, there was MDRT, uh million dollar round table, and we were at it one year, and there was this guy on stage, and he says, um, the Americans are great.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: I love them, they're brilliant.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: They're all up for it and they're all you know ready to rock and roll.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: But he said that a financial advisor is like a pilot.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: When you get on a plane, you want to go from destination A to B.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: You don't care who the pilot is, you just want to make sure he's competent.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: And if there's turbulence, that's when you want to hear him.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: And he says, Everything is fine, a little bit of turbulence, we'll get through the next couple of minutes and we'll get there.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: Financial advisor is the same.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: Clients invest money with you, whether it's pension, investments, whatever it is, they have an end goal.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a plan, that's why it's called a retirement plan.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: There's a plan in place, but when markets wobble, we should be contacting the clients and say, Everything be okay.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you have to come out clients and they check the bloody every day.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: So don't we have that's because Trump said something's going down and said, But you're right, you have to say let's write it out in a few months when Jesus back home again.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I know.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's right that's and yeah, because I like you said, I think anyone could be a financial advisor in the good times, it's the bad times when you were good.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's when some of those lads get out because they can't handle it, or maybe again hang out because that's when it gets tough in times of wing when their funds are down on that.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: But that's when you go back and you say, remember at the very start, you're buying units.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: A lot cheaper now.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Best investors are lazy or dead.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I've heard.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: Say that again.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: The best investors are lazy or dead.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: The best investors are dead.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_01: They don't react.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Either because they're no longer physically able, or they're too lazy.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: But they're actually but it's but actually they're they're adopting the same philosophy that you're talking about, which is not panicking, which is not crystallizing a loss, it's not turning a uh, you know, a negative into a definite negative.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like Marcus said, okay, you're down today, but they're not selling today.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: We're not selling, you're not retiring today.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: So just always come back.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: So markets can stay irregular longer than you can stay solved.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, always remember that one.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's I just think that's a great saying.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because even now, look at now.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: But technically speaking, I would have thought markets should have fallen dramatically in the last year or six months.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely, and oil prices and interest rates and all that, but no, the markets are staying.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think AI is keeping it afloat.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_01: And and if if AI was to die, I I think something is potentially coming.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: It just feels like there is, it just seems like the mood music is so.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: I've heard that every week for the last two years.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: China have just announced a plan that's called the Six Networks to massively, massively 25 trillion won, which is about three billion, three, three trillion um kind of investment plan, which should help China, which should help all of us as well.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: So so they they I think they sense that there's something troubling coming and they're trying to react um ahead of it.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think Stephen the 2008 crash has kind of left a mark on people in terms of their attitude to to risk or you know being more cautious than maybe they used to be?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't know is the answer to that.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: I it as an advisor, it's made me more aware because I remember it and I remember clients and I remember how clients felt and I remember how markets were and how we dealt with that.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: So now I'm older, I'm more hopefully wiser, but I'm a lot more experienced.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: So if a crash comes again, we know well, we've had two crashes since, but they weren't a financial crash like that.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: It was in my opinion, that was built on sand, it was built on debt.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: We're not at that level at the moment.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_02: I always say the problem with the gangs of Tiger, we were like buying two cars, three puppies in McGay, it was just never ending, it just keep buying stuff.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: I had a client went into AIB, right?
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's not a knock on any bank, they were all the exact same.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Went into AIB to get a mortgage and came out a mortgage on a BMW X5.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going, what happened there?
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: He said they gave me an extra hundred grand, so I thought an extra life.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: But you know what?
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: The car would have lasted better than the bank shares.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it would retain its value.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely, yeah.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: So so so I suppose we it's it's yeah, it's it's hard, it's hard to say.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone, everyone's attitude is is uh well, there's an Irish attitude, 800 years of oppression.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: That is still in our heads, that's still there.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's why we want to buy property.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: We all need to own our own home, we all need to own property because we are only three generations out from a famine.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: When you think about it logically, you know, so that's still kind of inbuilt in the Irish world.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: If you look to Europe, they all rent.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: But we have to buy, we have to own our property, and that's that's why we have to leave our money in the bank.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: 170 billion on deposit in the bank.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: And you're gonna hang on a second.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_00: That 170 billion in 10 years' time will be worth approximately 130 billion with inflation with inflation.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: We're losing money all the time, but we still leave it there.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Why do you think why do you think, Stephen, there is so much money?
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because there wasn't that kind of money during the Celtic Tiger, it was in assets.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: That that that that money that's now on deposit that was going into assets.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: So why are people not investing?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think?
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think we've an older generation as well, though.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: We've we have a lot of retirees in this country.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they don't need to invest, yeah.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: They just leave the money on deposit.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_02: Keep from the summer as we go as Stephen, it's like so the top five percent that have all this wealth, yeah.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_02: And unfortunately, the younger generation don't have the house where these retirees have the property, yeah, yeah, and everything.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the problem is it's all scored out to the retirees.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and unfortunately, like you're saying, obviously, it was always like your mum and dad said I have your house, and then all the other accounts have there's just ridiculous.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: So the money is in the buy, and retirees, and I get it because I'll be there at some stage myself, they're nervous, they're going, they're going, well, what if I have to go to care?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: What if I have to go into I'm not I can't afford to invest my money in case it goes.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: They understand investments, but what if it drops and I can't afford to go to care?
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of people like that.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: I understand it.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely a factor.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely factor.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: We we talk a lot uh in the last few months about China on this uh podcast because I suppose I believe there's now two great powers in America and China, and that we know very, very little about China compared to what we know about America.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um are you hearing more about China?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: Are clients bringing it up?
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Are you bringing it up?
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Do you are you more do you notice it more, or is the answer really not really?
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: No, not really is the answer because we don't clients talk about what they see and what they know.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: There's not a huge amount of China in the press that I read.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe there is.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: I know you can look at certain whatever um uh websites or whatever, and you get more information or whatever on the architecture.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: There's not a huge amount in it, but there's also no Chinese funds either.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have anything that we go to a client, there's a China, there's a Chinese fund that invests in Chinese stocks, because a lot of those mega Chinese companies are in kind of world stock market funds.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: That's where they may be popping up if they're popping up at all.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but people people to the odd person will say China, but I am still of the firm belief that whatever China does, America will try to beat, and whatever America does, China will try to beat.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: And they're just it's a race, not a race at the bottom.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: With those guys, it's a race at the top, yeah.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, yeah, but they're at a different level because uh what's the country that China has annexed?
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: They all talk about not Taiwan, what's it called?
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um well, Hong Kong.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: No, the other the the the one that they're they all talk about.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: What's the right Tibetan?
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: No, not Tibet.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: I can't think of the name of it anyway.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: But it's a place within China, right?
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and seemingly they have a solar farm there that is the size of Ireland.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: I go, holy god, we don't know the vastness of this country, give a solar.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's the size of their we've talked about the industries a lot, but it's it's what they're doing to say the motor industry in Europe, they're absolutely slaying us because the products are excellent and the prices are low, and it's it's scale, like you just mentioned there.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think it could be Xinjiang that you mentioned, it's the far west part of China, and there's an awful lot of the kind of production, it's it's kind of cheaper stuff is done out there, but uh I mean at solar farm size warrant that is absolutely unbelievable, which is just incredible.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's the scale, it's it's this it's the scale of it.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: But a lot of stuff is coming from South Korea as well.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of cars manufacture South Korea, like I think that's phenomenal success story.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Unbelievable.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: It is, it is, they are.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um they've got the two big batteries, the kind of uh battery companies or memory companies.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Samsung and this this is a gentleman as well.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: Sign extra life.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway, so um what was the I suppose uh we met at Acorn Life?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um what would you thought was the biggest change from where you were?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um what did you notice most when you joined Acorn compared to previously, or or was it all quite similar to the experience for several years?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: Just different products, but it's very, very similar, different products.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's really it.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um Acorn's a tight agency, so you can only use Acorn products products.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: And what prompted you to set up uh Donnelly Financial Planning?
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, as I said, I always wanted to have my own brokerage, um, and timing wasn't always right with young kids, mortgage, the whole nine yards, the increment salary is what you want.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um I just at the right stage of life now to say, yeah, this is what I want to do.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: I've always wanted to do it.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: I've always kind of worked as if it's my own business.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Where advised people the way I would advise if it was my own business anyway.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, it's just timing was right.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I then I have a we have a kind of a legacy plan in place as well.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: My son is going into fourth year in college, but he wants to get into the industry as well.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: He really does, he's really interested, very much interested.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: He wants to, yeah.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's nice.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know he really is.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: He's already sending some of his mates my way.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like now, they're only 21, 22 years of age, but all their thoughts are can I get a deposit together for a house in 10 years' time?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm going to put a savings in place and off you go and stuff like that.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then my daughter, like, obviously the business is there for her as well, but she's gone down the pharmacy route, but it'll still be there.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so that's there's there's a succession, and that's what I like about it.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that's family business.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: You've probably seen this already, Stephen.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like, family businesses are happening less and less.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like continuity, like succession is happening less and less because people want to do other things.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many opportunities in the economy.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's a consolidation in our industry, it's a consolidation in our industry.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: There's so many, like if NFP, you have Fairstone, um, there's SYS, they're buying up brokerages, so there is a consolidation within the none of that's switched.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_02: As we probably see, it's probably bad for the industry to script.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: I mean all these independent brokers are coming all these large organizations.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and I know what they're doing, they're coming and giving a good price, and if broker's there, and if there's as usually if there's no one to take over, the bits fan, oh no, I'm getting a price here, yeah.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_02: Rather be just winding it down.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, yeah, pull it.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: And as I think this is a great industry.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: I actually I love the industry, it's a brilliant industry.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: I love looking after people and advising them and giving them the right advice.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and like it's not physical.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: So once your brain is active, you can keep going in this industry.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's just you go down to one or two days a week and get somebody else to run the rest of it.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: Happy days, but that's it's not physical drift, you're Sonny.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's yeah, you do the hard stuff now.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: I was in the office of the fear.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: No, I mean it it is because I mean when you when you have your own business, you are the salesperson, you are the one doing all the work.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: In your case, even obviously, in terms of any business written up that has there's there's an administrative.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think is your wife um no, Debbie.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: She has come on into the business, she's doing all the social media and the website and all that.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: I have two admin girls um who are brilliant, they're fantastic.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: Because you need it, don't you?
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like this.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's you couldn't do it all yourself.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no, it's no no no.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's there's there's a huge amount to it between you know, admin, compliance, getting all your documents right, getting everything right.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm that's one thing I will sorry, not one thing, Acorn's a great company, but one thing I will say about Acorn is compliance-wise, you know, and it was it's a great training, yeah, it's a phenomenal training because I take every box.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, compliance is reinfecting all of your hazards.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: And rightly so, and rightly so, because um, you know, you have to have the mindset, I'm looking after somebody's money, they're entrusting their money with me, and it has to be done right.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: The uh one area I think of the markets that people kind of can kind of understand the idea of a of a company like Ryanair that you know it it it sells all these flights, it makes all this money, it either just passes a dividend on or you can buy the but buy the chairs in the company.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: But bonds is definitely something that people struggle with, and um and you don't, but how do you explain bonds to people when if it when they come up as part of a pen pension discussion or something like that?
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_00: The bond is a loan.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: So my explanation is if the Irish government want to relay the M50, they have to borrow money to do it, they're not going to use their own money, so they go to market and they give a 2% yield on whatever they borrow for the next 10 years.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and that's what a bond is.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Same with Apple.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_00: Apple is the most cash-rich company.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it was anyway, I don't know if it still is in the world.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: But for research and development, they don't use their own money.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: They go to larger data centers, a lot of the but they go to market and they buy they borrow because they're not using it.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's cheaper for them to borrow than to use their own money, which is bizarre, but it is.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: But it is.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_00: So you're if you're buying a bond, you're buying into that company, you're saying, right, I'm lending.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're basically lending the money, and they pay you a dividend.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a loan.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like you said, it it's just a loan.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: I I struggle sometimes to understand why people find it so so complex, but maybe it's the language around bonds because you know, when a bond is issued, it can be it can be sold.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like you can buy it and you could sell it 10 minutes later.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you know, when the price falls, the yield goes up, and I that's what confuses people.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: It seems to lose people's.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: I think yeah, when what throws people, yeah.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: One, oh, when it goes that way, the other one goes the other way, or the other one goes the other way, yeah.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: They're cut their going against each other.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's and for business of the government as well.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: You think, oh, it's something different.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_02: But you're uh you've always said it in our podcast, it is just basically a loan, whether it's a a government or a corporation.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: It is a loan, and it's generally considered fairly fairly safe, but prices of bonds can change.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's not that they don't change.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: But they're changing at the moment.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: They're changing at the moment.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: The yields are, I mean, like I mean, essentially, there is a slightly you know, governments are finding it harder and harder to either raise taxes or cut spending.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um and we were just just the last day we were we were talking about France, you know, where this their their budget deficit is just growing.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: And the cost of their bonds is some of their bonds are costing more than than Greece's.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: Which is you're hard to get your head around, like you know.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: But um it's it's it's an important area because.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: guess with the pension is it fair to say that it's some some mixture of bonds and shares or is there pension funds have more more uh assets different types of assets 2022 excuse me scared people a little bit because in 2022 we had Russia invaded Ukraine we had an interest rate crisis stock markets fell and bond markets fell normally stock markets fall bond markets rise and vice versa but in 2022 they both fell and then you know and there was a huge um I suppose huge amount of advice went to people to go do a 60 40 60 stocks 40 bonds but then the whole lot both fell people are going Jesus bonds aren't as safe as I thought they used to be you know um but historically yeah bonds would be relatively safe it depends on you know whose bond you're buying but yeah you know you buy a Ryanair bond you're gonna get paid you know you buy a CRH bond you're gonna get paid you know that you know you buy Argentinas they might as well go to the bookings like you know I mean it's not it's not that Argentina are that bad it's just that the the the in Argentine in Buenos Aires their their pension funds and their life insurance companies have been burnt so many times they're just never going to invest in the government again.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: So it's always external they always have to borrow external and we're just saying that the French will have to watch so they don't get somewhere themselves because like the bond markets they don't mess around like these people have literally trillions at their disposal and if they think Europe weak they'll hit they'll they'll that's there'll be a sell-off and you just wonder is you know too big to fail is France too big to say fail I I personally think Europe will probably will have to step in and will have to I think the EU will have to step in because Germany won't be happy because that'll affect all their care stuff I just think they should be stepping in now.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know I think they should be saying we know where this is headed we know that you are not going to be able to cut spending you try to cut you to raise the pension age from 62 to 64 which we would consider quite reasonable.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: Not a chance for that happening Prats so so at some point they're going to have to do something and I don't know that they should wait till the S hits the fan I think they should try and do it sooner than that it's hard to know it's hard to know you like you look what happened in in Ireland when the uh EMF came in or the IMF whatever they're called came in we kind of just sucked it up and said yeah it has to happen we do we get on with it and we move on the French riot they won't but anything happens you can see at the moment the riot like if anything happens they go mad.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah so you just kind of and I think there is a bit of that kind of you know that the French have again you know as I said we're only three four generations away from a the the famine here they're only three four generations away from the revolution do you know so there's still it's still that mindset it's it takes what you're saying like seeing that the oppression from colonialism for us it takes like nine ten generations away the system yeah and yeah I mean there was a time when they were one of the the great the great powers there's still a permanent seat at the council you know if they were deciding that today that would not be happening.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: No you know so so they're a football team though.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: Good it's yeah yeah yeah yeah they didn't be say could be doing the old soft landing routine as well yeah it's our soft landing yeah nothing to see here lads no one's coming in um a couple a couple more Stephen um one I suppose is that life insurance pensions it can be quite dry I was talking to a friend recently about it and uh she wasn't with you now she was with somebody else and she found herself after 10 or 15 minutes thinking well what am I gonna have for dinner tonight how do you do you ever I don't I don't sense you would get that a lot but do you get that lack of engagement and what what do you try to do when someone who should be focusing on something that's actually very very important and they're finding it hard to yeah I think you do get people glazing over at times to be fair you know um it's not the sexiest industry in the world but I think you just need to bring people back to the importance of it.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like there is a saying that three things happen in life you live long you die young or you get sick in between that's everybody every single person so you kind of kind of bring people back to the important the relevance and the importance of it you know what I mean life cover is really really important if you're if children have your kids because if you're gone tomorrow that income is gone forever.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really important to have it.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then you have to look at you know income protection and making sure that you have the income to have the lifestyle whatever it is but also pension you get to a stage see a lot of mine I suppose age comes into it as well a lot of my clients would be 40 plus you know because I'm that age group because you're that age yeah I'm that age group yeah and then you're talking to them and you're going well you're getting closer to the retirement bit you need to have an income because if you don't have an income you're gonna have a hard retirement yeah I think you're right there I think it's always like why is it when you have to case a non anarchic life cover.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah and then as they got oh oh I've got to sort out the pension yeah yeah and then I usually find the hardest cell or not that it's cell but it's obviously quite people need is income protection because people've got tarnet against it.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah yeah yeah yeah they know they know they they will obviously die at some stage they know they want to retire something pension he'll probably find as well income protection though I know some some uh colleagues of ours in the industry are very good at selling in income protection and I always find it it's some something but people don't think they'll ever get sick you see there's kind of a defiance about it of course the other stuff they know is coming they know it's coming yeah exactly but I I also love like I always I I always I say it to clients I say how much out of your take home pay can you put into your pension and they give me a figure and I say now I'll show you the magic and they do wake up a little bit then when you show that because then you go right let's let get the tax relief let's gross it back up that's actually what you can put into your pension yeah and that's the difference it makes at the end.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Explain that to us Steven about reinvesting the tax relief as you just described it how does that work well if somebody says to me that I want to invest I just what I say to people is out of your take home pay so at the end of the month how much can you afford and go put 200 quid a month in just say for argument's sake right 200 quid a month in okay fine gross that back up you're on the higher rate of tax that means you can invest was it 350 I don't know if we calculate it in front of me whatever it and then take the tax so 350 a month is going into your pension but it's only costing you 200 because the 150 is your take home yeah because you're getting the tax relief yeah so no it makes it does it does make a big difference does make a big difference and I suppose just finally Stephen what would you say to people considering going into this or or even just someone who's considering a new business for example what would you say to them?
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well I think do you know what I I my bugbear in life is service.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: You have to look after your clients you have to really do.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_00: As I said I started off in the hospitality industry and where I was we had a brilliant restaurant general manager and she was she was so nice but she was lethal as well if you weren't doing your job right so you have to look after people like how many times do you go out now for a meal or a bite or a drink or whatever it is and you're sitting there and going nobody's come near me for the last 20 minutes.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sitting here with plates in front of me or a glass in front and no one's come near me.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Service is what it's all about.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean because it's become like that before well when you come when you look at the the the hospitality industry like when I was starting out a barman was it was an apprenticeship it was a four or five year apprenticeship to become a barman.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_00: Anyone can be a barman yeah you just walk in with no socks on looking cool and you get a job I mean anybody could be so I think that kind of that it's changed a little bit.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: So anybody setting up a business my strong advice is because it's what I live by if somebody is good enough to place business with me I will make sure I look after them because they put their trust in me.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know what I mean?
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: So they've believed what I said they're in trusting their finances with me or they're entrusting their cover with me.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: They're entrusting their family with me.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: Somebody puts life cover in place and I go and they go to me well what happens if I die I say well if you die you tell your wife or your husband or whatever it is or your partner there's Stephen's number he knows where everything is yeah give him a shout.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah so I suppose if you're if you're going to sell to someone if you're going well in particular in your case where the relationship is going to be uh kind of ongoing it's much longer it's not like we're going up to buy an ice cream coat yeah yeah they're going to be with you that that when they call even as you get busier and you you've probably over the last three years gotten even busier than you were at the beginning like that you have to still prioritize them.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: I'll always take the call I tell clients we you and I had a meeting not too long ago and you took a call during that meeting and I remember thinking that's how important he thinks that person is I will always take a client's call sometimes you have to do it especially sometimes as we say with the wife there's yeah you have to and sometimes you get somebody who rings you go do you know what if you don't mind I'll be trying to get this guy for the past two weeks and now he rings me and I just take the call or whatever.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: But I will always ring someone back as well if they phone me and if somebody refers someone on I'll I'll say the same thing.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: If they don't get me will you ask them to text me so I know who it is because if it's an unknown number I'm kind of gone I don't want to win yet another foreign lottery I'm not bringing that one back.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: I know Steve if you give me 10 million euros I'll get that Nigerian prince out there there you go yeah okay well since Steven thanks very much for coming in today I hope everyone uh got something from that I certainly certainly did uh and uh I definitely do so I knew the board some some got some guidance you for the well I wish you all the best Marcus I wish I know genuinely wish you all the best and one thing I will say about this industry while people are deemed to be in competition the amount of advisors that I've met at um um seminars and that that help people just help each other in this industry I'm not competing with you you're not competing with me because we we know completely different people we have completely different clients um and if you need help any help you need seriously I'd have to do that I've had so many well there's some come and offer me jobs you know they told us I said the best looking if you need any advice and all that give me a little bit here guard that that's what's great about it.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah that whereas another is give people like oh that's my competition whereas this one we all kind of look after each other.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: There's enough business out there for everyone.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: Great well that's I think we can leave it there.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks everyone thanks well thanks Marcus thanks to you then