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Secrets to Earning Your True Value (with Dan McPherson) · The Daily Writer

0:08
SPEAKER_00: Welcome creative geniuses.
0:09
SPEAKER_00: This is episode 87 of the Born to Create podcast.
0:13
SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Kent Sanders, and this is the show where we explore the mindset, habits, and skills to help you make a bigger impact in your life and creative work.
0:22
SPEAKER_00: You can find previous episodes, my free ultimate toolkit for creative entrepreneurs, and much more at KentSanders.net.
0:31
SPEAKER_00: As a creative or an artist, have you ever struggled with business?
0:35
SPEAKER_00: Do you love to create but don't like messing with the business side of things?
0:39
SPEAKER_00: Would you like to make more sales and put yourself in a better financial position?
0:43
SPEAKER_00: Well, if you've answered yes to any of these questions, you'll really appreciate my guest today.
0:48
SPEAKER_00: His name is Dan McPherson, and he is a business leader and a coach.
0:51
SPEAKER_00: He's going to share some of the secrets to earning your true value and learning to think like a business person, even when it seems to go against your creative nature.
1:00
SPEAKER_00: I'll share the conversation with Dan here in just a couple of minutes, but first, let's dive into our ask kit segment.
1:06
SPEAKER_00: This is where I answer your questions about creativity, mindset, creative habits, or writing.
1:13
SPEAKER_00: And today's question comes from Jessica Gigliotti.
1:16
SPEAKER_00: Jessica says, How can I become more consistent in my creative work?
1:20
SPEAKER_00: I think a ton of creatives struggle with this.
1:23
SPEAKER_00: We show up doing amazing things, and just when people start to notice us and follow us, we crawl back into our introvert den completely vanishing and leaving everybody guessing.
1:33
SPEAKER_00: By the time we're ready to come back out and engage the world again, it has mostly forgotten about us and our work.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: And the pattern repeats.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: I'm an introvert and you described what we do precisely when you talk about the quote unquote introvert den.
1:58
SPEAKER_00: And I think den is a great way to describe it.
2:01
SPEAKER_00: I think that metaphor, that idea of a den is super interesting because a den is a place of safety and security.
2:08
SPEAKER_00: It's a place that we know, it's a place where we're surrounded by people who love us and where we feel safe and kind of warm and comfortable.
2:17
SPEAKER_00: So that tells us this really isn't an issue of being consistent.
2:20
SPEAKER_00: It's more of an issue of fear and not being comfortable with attention.
2:24
SPEAKER_00: At least that's my take on it.
2:25
SPEAKER_00: And this is a really good insight because many times we creatives and artists really beat ourselves up for not being productive enough, for not creating more and for not achieving more things.
2:36
SPEAKER_00: And we think the real issue is laziness or just not being more highly scheduled or organized.
2:42
SPEAKER_00: But I don't think those are the real issues here.
2:45
SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's an issue of productivity or creating more work.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: I think in our minds we make those kind of a smoke screen for what the real issue is, and that is that we're afraid of success.
2:57
SPEAKER_00: Now when I say that we're afraid of success, that sounds weird because we all want to be successful.
3:02
SPEAKER_00: But I think on some level, most of us, especially those of us who are introverts or who are shy and you know we don't like big crowds and and we don't like all the attention.
3:11
SPEAKER_00: I think that sometimes we are really afraid of success.
3:14
SPEAKER_00: And we don't create more things because we don't want the attention that comes along with creating more things.
3:20
SPEAKER_00: We frame ourselves and we look at ourselves as lazy or disorganized, but we're not.
3:25
SPEAKER_00: The issue isn't usually that we're lazy or disorg or disorganized.
3:29
SPEAKER_00: The real issue, I think, is that we're just afraid and we don't want we don't want the attention.
3:34
SPEAKER_00: So I would ask, what is driving your fear?
3:37
SPEAKER_00: You know, all fear relates to loss of some kind.
3:41
SPEAKER_00: And we become afraid when we think that we might lose something.
3:45
SPEAKER_00: And I think for most of us it comes down to feeling unworthy.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: If we put our stuff out there, whether it's our writing or art or music or whatever it is, if we put our stuff out there, we might find out that we're actually not that talented or that people didn't like it.
4:02
SPEAKER_00: So if that happens, that means that we lose our identity or and we lose our self-confidence and our self-esteem as an artist or creative.
4:10
SPEAKER_00: And for the vast majority of artists, that self-identity as an artist and as a creative, that is very, very precious to us, and that's almost like how we determine our value in life is we think of ourselves in terms of what we create as artists.
4:23
SPEAKER_00: I know I tend to be that way.
4:25
SPEAKER_00: I think of myself in terms of of what I create, you know, like in a vocational sense.
4:30
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I have a day job and I have a family and you know, I have all the things that most of us have.
4:34
SPEAKER_00: But yet internally I still see myself as an artist.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: That self-identifying part of me as an artist is very, very important.
4:42
SPEAKER_00: And my guess, Jessica, is that that's the case for you as well, as well as for most of the people listening.
4:49
SPEAKER_00: But here's what's really likely to happen.
4:51
SPEAKER_00: You know, again, I just a second ago I talked about that risk of putting your stuff out there and having people reject it.
4:58
SPEAKER_00: But in all likelihood, here's what actually will happen.
5:01
SPEAKER_00: We put our stuff out there and some people will really, really love it.
5:05
SPEAKER_00: Now, of course, not everybody's gonna love it because we're not creating our art for everybody.
5:12
SPEAKER_00: You know, we're not creating it for the whole human race.
5:14
SPEAKER_00: We're creating what whatever it is that we create for a segment of people.
5:18
SPEAKER_00: We're creating it for a certain type of art lover or music lover or reader or whatever it is that we're making.
5:25
SPEAKER_00: And when we create for that audience and the people who we know are gonna like our stuff, they're probably going to love it.
5:31
SPEAKER_00: So think of the person that you're making art for.
5:34
SPEAKER_00: They're waiting for you to create more stuff.
5:37
SPEAKER_00: And there's no need to be afraid because whenever you put your your best effort into something and you know, sometimes it fails, sometimes it succeeds, but whatever it is, we're going to get better the more that we do it.
5:47
SPEAKER_00: So I would just encourage you to keep putting stuff out there and taking that risk.
5:51
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, sometimes people are going to dislike our stuff.
5:54
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes they might even hate it.
5:56
SPEAKER_00: But in all likelihood, a lot of people are really going to love it and they're going to appreciate it and they're going to express that appreciation.
6:03
SPEAKER_00: So don't let that fear of of risk or that fear of failure or rejection keep you from creating the stuff that the that a whole bunch of people are really, really going to love.
6:14
SPEAKER_00: Something I've been thinking about a lot lately is a concept from a great book by the author Gay Hendricks, and the book is called The Big Leap.
6:23
SPEAKER_00: And in this book, The Big Leap, he talks about our upper limit challenge.
6:28
SPEAKER_00: Now, what the upper limit challenge is, it is a limit that we set for ourselves.
6:33
SPEAKER_00: The idea is that we have an idea in our minds of how high that we can go or how successful that we can be.
6:39
SPEAKER_00: And if we get above that level, we're going to do something to sabotage our own success.
6:44
SPEAKER_00: In other words, we're going to pull ourselves down to the level that we feel we're worthy of.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: It happens all the time.
6:50
SPEAKER_00: You know, sometimes you you see these very successful athletes, they're very young, and they make this crazy amount of money very quickly and then they spend it all, and then they end up in poverty because of that upper limit challenge.
7:02
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's still their sense of who they are has not expanded to to meet their new income and their new identity as this celebrity or this well-known person or whatever.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: But we all do that.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: We all have this upper limit challenge where we tend to pull ourselves down to a level that we feel we're worthy of.
7:21
SPEAKER_00: So Jessica, lots of things to think about here.
7:24
SPEAKER_00: Um I would encourage you to check out this book called The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks.
7:28
SPEAKER_00: It's a really, really excellent book.
7:29
SPEAKER_00: Check it out.
7:30
SPEAKER_00: It will really change your paradigm, and I know it's helped me a lot, and it probably will help you as well as all of our listeners as well.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: So, Jessica, thanks for your question, and I will be sending you an ebook, an audio book of my book, The Artist Suitcase.
7:42
SPEAKER_00: So for everybody else listening, if you have a question about the creative life, habits, mindset, productivity, or writing, you can submit it by going to KentSanders.net slash podcast and filling out the question form, or you can just shoot me an email at Kent at KentSanders.net.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: And if I use your question on the show, I will send you a free ebook and audiobook of the artist suitcase.
8:12
SPEAKER_00: Dan McPherson is the founder and CEO of Leaders Must Lead.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: He is on a mission to help creatives and entrepreneurs create and grow profit and understand that dreams are real.
8:24
SPEAKER_00: With more than twenty-five years of experience in the corporate world, leading teams of up to two thousand and responsible for more than$150 million in revenue, Dan is a recognized expert in leadership, sales, and business strategy.
8:39
SPEAKER_00: Through his Leaders Must Learn Mastermind, foundations of success training, impactful speaking events, and powerful one-to-one coaching, Dan helps hundreds of people around the world, from musicians and artists to chiropractors, retailers, and beyond experience success and accomplish their goals.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: So in our conversation today, we cover a wide variety of topics, including why every creative is a salesperson and a leader, how to think of sales in a way that resonates with your creative bent, how to determine your North Star, and Dan will explain what that is in the conversation.
9:12
SPEAKER_00: How to get off the treadmill of indecision, and boy, I can relate to that one.
9:16
SPEAKER_00: And lots more really great stuff.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: After the conversation, make sure to check out the show notes at KentSanders.net slash zero eight seven.
9:25
SPEAKER_00: That's KentSanders.net slash zero eight seven.
9:28
SPEAKER_00: All right, let's get to the conversation with Dan McPherson.
9:34
SPEAKER_00: I'm here with Mr.
9:35
SPEAKER_00: Dan McPherson.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: Dan, thanks so much for joining me on the podcast today.
9:40
SPEAKER_01: Hey, thanks for having me.
9:41
SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to be here.
9:42
SPEAKER_00: So the main topic that I wanted us to focus on today, and like most of my interviews, if this goes somewhere else, that's totally cool.
9:49
SPEAKER_00: But the main topic is thinking about this issue of creativity from the perspective of sales and adding value and business.
9:56
SPEAKER_00: This is an area that is really difficult for a lot of creative types, and I would say, including myself, I've wrestled with this a lot as well over the years.
10:04
SPEAKER_00: You know, the typical artist as we think of them loves to make stuff but is not necessarily business minded.
10:10
SPEAKER_00: So I'm wondering if if you can help us understand how to think like a business person and an entrepreneur and even maybe how to think about sales in a different way as a creative person.
10:22
SPEAKER_00: So I'm just going to launch that concept out there.
10:25
SPEAKER_00: What are your what are your immediate thoughts when I bring up this issue of creatives but also entrepreneurship and business?
10:33
SPEAKER_01: Well, the first thing that I would say is that what you just described is exactly the reason that I have a company and exactly the reason that I'm in business.
10:42
SPEAKER_01: So I spent 25 years in retail and various levels there and working at home improvements and working in sales, doing a lot of pretty amazing things, following the path that so many do.
10:53
SPEAKER_01: And I then dropped out of all of that to start my own company, Leaders Must Lead.
10:58
SPEAKER_01: And the purpose of Leaders Must Lead is to help creatives and entrepreneurs to create and grow profit and to recognize that dreams are real.
11:08
SPEAKER_01: So that's really just foundational to me.
11:10
SPEAKER_01: And it comes from exactly what you said.
11:12
SPEAKER_01: I growing up and then going through the last 25 years, I've seen so many creators, artists, musicians, gamers, authors, whoever they might be, who were out there trying to find their way, who maybe had certain perceptions about money, or who were told you what you do, that's a nice hobby, but you should go get a real job or any other or anything like that.
11:37
SPEAKER_01: Or that there were barriers in their way.
11:40
SPEAKER_01: Or third, that there were no real coaches that aimed at them because even the coaches were convinced, uh, there's not money there.
11:46
SPEAKER_01: Why am I not gonna, why am I gonna do that?
11:48
SPEAKER_01: And I recognized this huge need.
11:50
SPEAKER_01: And so as I launched the company, I started reaching out to creatives and connected with my first couple of clients who now have seen tremendous success and go on to prove that you, if you reach for your dreams, you can create and get that profit in a way that matches your desires.
12:07
SPEAKER_01: Because creatives look for that profit in a different way.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: They often have different perceptions about it than normal, quote unquote, business people do.
12:15
SPEAKER_01: I don't know that anything about me is normal, but I've had the business training and I'm a refiner, not a creator.
12:21
SPEAKER_01: That's that's one thing that's really cool is I love creators.
12:24
SPEAKER_01: I love to see people who make things from nothing.
12:26
SPEAKER_01: I am not that guy, but I can refine just about anything.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: So I love to get the Wonder Twin powers together, and I try not to be the one that ends up form of water, but I uh but but I love to get that done.
12:37
SPEAKER_01: And uh that that's really what comes to mind is just how much of a gap there is in society between where creatives can succeed and where they currently are.
12:48
SPEAKER_00: See, I wonder if there's isn't an element to all this where, and I'm just gonna use myself as a guinea pig.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: You know, like I mentioned before, I tend to just put myself out there as a guinea pig on this show.
12:58
SPEAKER_00: But for years, I told myself I had this internal dialogue that said, you're not a business person, you're not good at business, you don't think like a business person, you like to make stuff, you like to write or play guitar or whatever.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: Is there an element to where we just have to change our internal dialogue that we're telling ourselves?
13:15
SPEAKER_00: And and maybe we're just telling ourselves this story that we're not good at thinking like an entrepreneur when in fact, if we get rid of that false dialogue, that maybe we can actually be really successful with this.
13:26
SPEAKER_01: There's a huge amount of truth to that.
13:28
SPEAKER_01: In fact, it has led to the development of the signature talk that I share and that I'll be sharing as part of Freedom Summit Global at a number of summit tours around the world.
13:37
SPEAKER_01: The title of it is Dreams Are Real Overcoming Our Own Objections to Create the Life We Want.
13:42
SPEAKER_01: And it goes to exactly, thank you.
13:44
SPEAKER_01: It goes to exactly what you're talking about.
13:46
SPEAKER_01: And and what where we start with that when I when I walk out to the stage, the first thing I ask is, is how many of you have dreams?
13:52
SPEAKER_01: And of course, everybody says, Yeah, I have dreams.
13:55
SPEAKER_01: And then I ask, how many of you have less dreams than you used to have?
14:00
SPEAKER_01: How many of your dreams have have lowered or gotten smaller over time?
14:03
SPEAKER_01: And it's it's half, two-thirds, three-quarters of the audience, right?
14:07
SPEAKER_01: And then we start talking about, well, why has that happened?
14:09
SPEAKER_01: What have people told you?
14:11
SPEAKER_01: And then everybody starts resonating.
14:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, people have told me this.
14:14
SPEAKER_01: Well, then we switch and I say, Well, what have you told you?
14:17
SPEAKER_01: What is that little voice in your head?
14:18
SPEAKER_01: Let's call him Harold.
14:20
SPEAKER_01: Harold is not a nice guy.
14:22
SPEAKER_01: And Harold tells you all these things, and maybe it's Karen for other people, right?
14:25
SPEAKER_01: That's what that's the one, that's the name my wife uses for the voice in her head.
14:28
SPEAKER_01: Uh, but it it is it what does that voice tell you?
14:32
SPEAKER_01: It tells you that you're not good enough.
14:34
SPEAKER_01: It tells you that you, the people shouldn't pay you for what you do.
14:38
SPEAKER_01: It tells you that you don't know what you're doing.
14:40
SPEAKER_01: It tells you that you have too much to do and you can't get there.
14:43
SPEAKER_01: It's all of that bad self-talk in the ways that sounds so rational and convincing.
14:49
SPEAKER_01: And in the end, we all need to shut, we all need to stand up and and we do this right at the end of that speech.
14:54
SPEAKER_01: The very last thing we do as I'm leaving the stage is I get I have this little stuffed animal that represents Harold, and we have everybody stand up, and together we all scream, shut up, Harold.
15:04
SPEAKER_01: And uh that that's what we need to say in our lives is shut up, Harold, and uh and get past that.
15:10
SPEAKER_01: And a second part that I will add to that, and then I and I'm curious where you would like to go with it, and I I'm glad to go anywhere.
15:18
SPEAKER_01: But the second thought is that we have not only do we have the these these self-talks, but we convince ourselves of two important things, or we we maybe we lose something, we lose this, that we think I'm not a leader and I'm not a salesperson.
15:34
SPEAKER_01: And I have news for you 100% of people are leaders, and 100% of people are salespeople.
15:40
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
15:40
SPEAKER_01: If you if you every interaction is a sale.
15:42
SPEAKER_01: If you've ever tried to get your kid to go to bed, you're making a sale, and good luck, you better be pretty good at it.
15:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, good luck.
15:48
SPEAKER_01: If uh, you know, if you're trying to, if you're trying to convince your significant other to go to dinner somewhere, you're making a sale.
15:54
SPEAKER_01: Every interaction is a sale, so it's really all about how effective you are at it.
15:58
SPEAKER_01: Everybody's a leader, everybody's an example in some way.
16:01
SPEAKER_01: And so, what type of example are you going to be?
16:04
SPEAKER_01: And once we get those two fundamental perceptions squared away, we then start talking about where you're aiming and what's important to you, and that and that that's how we get into it.
16:13
SPEAKER_01: And that that's how we get the self-talk turning around.
16:16
SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell So part of this is redefining what sales means at a base level.
16:20
SPEAKER_00: Because many people have the idea, okay, if you're in sales, they think of the used car guy with the slick back hair, or they think of, you know, like somebody from The Godfather.
16:28
SPEAKER_00: It's a movie I personally love.
16:30
SPEAKER_00: Not people I want to emulate, but it's it's a story that's just kind of sucks you in.
16:34
SPEAKER_00: And I I love this idea of yours that we're all in sales because I mean, really, what is sales except you're you're sharing something that you're hopefully personally excited about?
16:44
SPEAKER_00: It's persuasion, it's communication.
16:46
SPEAKER_00: So help us understand for all the creative types that are listening to this, what exactly does sales mean and and how how can we we begin to think of sales, quote unquote, differently and in a way that resonates with our creative bent?
17:02
SPEAKER_01: So I I I really appreciate that question.
17:04
SPEAKER_01: Most of my clients, where I have to start with sales with them is exactly this spot.
17:10
SPEAKER_01: Sales is not a dirty word, profit is not a dirty word.
17:13
SPEAKER_01: That's another battle that we fight.
17:14
SPEAKER_01: So we have to pull it out of its box and recognize that really it's spread throughout every conversation you have.
17:20
SPEAKER_01: If you are asking someone to do a task, if you're trying to get a better price at something, if you're sending a dinner back at a restaurant, whatever it is, you're making a sale.
17:31
SPEAKER_01: So I put it in that framework.
17:33
SPEAKER_01: I use that word that has a little more cut to it just to change our perception.
17:37
SPEAKER_01: But fundamentally, sales is persuasion.
17:40
SPEAKER_01: It's not so much the other way around.
17:41
SPEAKER_01: It isn't the persuasion as sales, it's sales is persuasion.
17:44
SPEAKER_01: So every persuasion we make is a form of a sale.
17:48
SPEAKER_01: That helps get the barrier down.
17:50
SPEAKER_01: And when we say, wait a minute, now now I am selling.
17:53
SPEAKER_01: Now it's just a matter of, am I good at it?
17:55
SPEAKER_01: Do I actually want to get the things I want?
17:57
SPEAKER_01: And do I want to get them in a way that I'm comfortable with that doesn't violate my principles and who I am and who I want to be?
18:05
SPEAKER_01: Can I get it in a, can I, can I become more effective and more efficient at it to achieve the things and help serve the people in the way that I want in the world?
18:15
SPEAKER_00: So let's say we're talking to someone who is uh, well, let's say a writer.
18:19
SPEAKER_00: So I'm a writer, I identify with writers a lot.
18:21
SPEAKER_00: You have somebody who loves to write stories, they love to write nonfiction, they have a blog.
18:26
SPEAKER_00: What are some ideas of some things that they could sell?
18:29
SPEAKER_00: You know, we talk about this idea of sales.
18:32
SPEAKER_00: How would you take somebody who is primarily a writer and give them some guidance on here's some ideas of things you could sell or add value to others with your writing talents?
18:42
SPEAKER_01: So this sounds very familiar, like some people that I may know, maybe even some people I'm talking to.
18:49
SPEAKER_01: I would say that the that the first thing I would do is to take a step back from that.
18:54
SPEAKER_01: I I find so many people start the business, start figuring out their business at the wrong end.
18:59
SPEAKER_01: They start with here's what, here's what I want to offer, instead of here's what I want to accomplish.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: If you flip to the top side and say, here's what I want to accomplish, here is, and and we've talked about this in our mastermind, here is my North Star, here's what I'm truly aiming at, what I want to be known for.
19:17
SPEAKER_01: And most people really confuse this when they start aiming at it.
19:21
SPEAKER_01: If I know what that is, then I then I can ask a few simple questions.
19:26
SPEAKER_01: I call it a decision filter that we work through to give an answer of now, this is what I should do.
19:33
SPEAKER_01: And now I can then ask strategically if I'm gonna do that, how can I do it most effectively?
19:38
SPEAKER_01: And the answers flow in a much smoother fashion.
19:41
SPEAKER_01: Whereas if we go from the other end, it's overwhelming and it can lead us down some crazy paths.
19:46
SPEAKER_00: That makes a lot of sense.
19:48
SPEAKER_00: I'd never thought about it that way before.
19:50
SPEAKER_00: So can you dig into a little bit into this concept of the North Star?
19:54
SPEAKER_00: And you know, again, we've talked about this in our mastermind group, but all of our listeners have not been in the mastermind, so they're probably a little bit mystified as to what this concept is, but it's so valuable and I think it offers such a great deal of clarity that I'd love for you to just dig into that a little bit more.
20:10
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
20:11
SPEAKER_01: It is probably the second topic that I speak with almost every one of my one-on-one clients about.
20:17
SPEAKER_01: It's it's really the first or second conversation that we have because it determines everything else.
20:22
SPEAKER_01: So if I could give one challenge to those in your audience as they listen to this, it would be to take notes on this little question right here and perform the exercise that we'll talk about in just in the next few minutes.
20:36
SPEAKER_01: I think that they will find it tremendously valuable in guiding their decisions and in easing a bit of overwhelm that most people get in their lives.
20:44
SPEAKER_00: So get your pins ready.
20:46
SPEAKER_00: In other words, all right.
20:49
SPEAKER_01: So the the first thought is determining what our North Star is.
20:53
SPEAKER_01: And this is this is the part that's really gonna vary for everyone.
20:57
SPEAKER_01: What matters to you?
20:58
SPEAKER_01: Now, when I start speaking with many of my clients, they'll say, I want to make this amount of money, or I want to, I want to have a business that's this big.
21:08
SPEAKER_01: And I tell them that's cool.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: Why?
21:10
SPEAKER_01: And we keep asking the question of why until there's no more why.
21:15
SPEAKER_01: We keep asking, why, well, why do you want that amount of money?
21:17
SPEAKER_01: Well, I want to be able to retire.
21:19
SPEAKER_01: Well, why?
21:20
SPEAKER_01: Because I want the freedom to do what I want.
21:22
SPEAKER_01: Well, well, why?
21:23
SPEAKER_01: What's that?
21:23
SPEAKER_01: What is it that you want to do?
21:25
SPEAKER_01: And we dig and we dig until we figure out what it is that at their core they really want to know and be known for and be proud of and do.
21:36
SPEAKER_01: In other words, if I could, if I could do everything in the world and aim it at one point, what is that one point?
21:43
SPEAKER_01: Not not for the not just for the moment, but really what is my North Star?
21:47
SPEAKER_01: What am I trying to accomplish in the long run?
21:50
SPEAKER_01: That is the first question that we start with.
21:53
SPEAKER_01: And there's a challenge that I do, and after we've asked why, and we get to a spot where usually people are looking at me and growling a little bit because I Ask them why some of the times.
22:02
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and they've they've gotten it.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: They they kind of see what I'm doing, but they're like, this is harder than I thought it would be.
22:08
SPEAKER_01: My North Star was easy.
22:09
SPEAKER_01: I had an answer 10 minutes ago.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: It just was very different than what I'm saying now.
22:13
SPEAKER_01: It's it uh then I ask them the test question.
22:17
SPEAKER_01: And the test question is where I have a little bit of fun, but it's a but it's a pretty real test question.
22:23
SPEAKER_01: And that is once you have it, you we all have these preconceived ideas about how we think we should get there.
22:30
SPEAKER_01: This is my favorite thing to do.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: This is my best skill.
22:33
SPEAKER_01: And and in a moment, remind me, and I will I will tell you how this worked for me, and I had to not do the things that are my biggest strengths.
22:40
SPEAKER_01: So I uh I I asked the question of whatever this is.
22:47
SPEAKER_01: So let's say that let's say that you want to be, you want to improve the literacy rate of children all over the world by 2%, because you are passionate about helping kids read and how impactful that is on their lives for for and how much it changes, it creates generational change.
23:06
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
23:07
SPEAKER_01: That might that might be someone's North Star.
23:10
SPEAKER_01: And you are passionate that writing books and training people on how to teach this material is the way to do it.
23:17
SPEAKER_01: I would say, cool.
23:18
SPEAKER_01: That that could be, it might not be.
23:20
SPEAKER_01: Let's ask this question.
23:22
SPEAKER_01: If I told you that the only way or the best way to get there, the fastest way that accomplishes this goal, and you know it would accomplish this goal, would be never to do that book or teach that thing, but it would be to both it would be to go for one year to Siberia and break rocks in a cave.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: But you knew that it would move you the furthest the fastest.
23:45
SPEAKER_01: Would you do it?
23:46
SPEAKER_01: And the reason that's a good test isn't because you're gonna go to Siberia and break rocks in a cave for a year.
23:54
SPEAKER_01: It's because it challenges you to take something that's ridiculous and that is probably the polar opposite of anything that you would consider wanting to do.
24:04
SPEAKER_01: And it gives you the opportunity to look and say, is this really my North Star?
24:09
SPEAKER_01: If I because if it is, then I will do whatever gets me to that North Star the first the fastest to further the furthest to fastest.
24:17
SPEAKER_01: And if it is not, then I can realign my North Star.
24:21
SPEAKER_01: So there's no bad answer here.
24:22
SPEAKER_01: It's just a personal test.
24:26
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that that makes a lot of sense.
24:28
SPEAKER_00: So talk a little bit about what you just mentioned about not doing things that you knew were your biggest strengths.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: I'm really curious about that because that that concept really challenges some fundamental notions that creative types have, I think.
24:42
SPEAKER_01: Uh it it challenges notions that I have.
24:44
SPEAKER_01: So don't feel alone for anyone who's listening and hears that.
24:48
SPEAKER_01: Uh I I would say this that I once I understood my North Star to help creatives and entrepreneurs create and grow profit in a way that creates generational change.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: That is, that's that's me.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: I had to ask, what moves me the furthest, the fastest?
25:05
SPEAKER_01: Well, for years, I have trained extensively in sales and leadership and all of these other things.
25:11
SPEAKER_01: Two of the greatest impacts that I can make, if if I were going to make a fast impact upon a coaching client, would be for me to enter the retail world and to go and go do retail consulting, because I can walk into a small mom and pop retailer, take about six hours of time with them, teach them a merchandising philosophy, and factually their sales are gonna go up somewhere between 8 and 11%.
25:35
SPEAKER_01: I can walk into a salesperson who's a straight commissioned salesperson, work with him for probably three or four days, and unless he's already in the top three or five percent, I can help him pick up 20 to 30 percent of income in just a few days.
25:49
SPEAKER_01: But as I looked at my target, it create there were problems that if I wanted to pursue those, I could do it and I could go chase the money.
25:57
SPEAKER_01: That's not what I'm all about.
25:58
SPEAKER_01: I think many of your creatives will audience will recognize or will appreciate that, will resonate with that, that it isn't about chasing the money.
26:04
SPEAKER_01: The money should be the natural outflow of what we do.
26:07
SPEAKER_00: That's an important concept.
26:08
SPEAKER_01: But I also it is.
26:11
SPEAKER_01: And that's that's actually where I connect with a lot of a lot of my creative clients, which is most of them, which is that it that's part of the whole money and sales aren't dirty.
26:20
SPEAKER_01: They should be the natural outflow of what we do if we're doing it in a strategic and positive way.
26:24
SPEAKER_01: But what I found as I looked is there's this idea of a make market and a take market.
26:29
SPEAKER_01: And a in a a take market is where you have a crowded market.
26:33
SPEAKER_01: Think of it as cell phones, right?
26:34
SPEAKER_01: If I were if I wanted to go sell a cell phone, I could get into that market very easily.
26:37
SPEAKER_01: Everyone knows what a cell phone is, everyone knows they need one.
26:40
SPEAKER_01: But I would scratch and claw for market share, and I would spend all my time, money, effort, and energy to get this tiny little fraction of a space.
26:47
SPEAKER_01: So it's easy to get in, but it's hard to get a lot of it.
26:51
SPEAKER_01: And so you could, it's hard to move the needle in any measurable, significant way if you want to actually make change in the world or impact people's lives rather than just grabbing your share.
27:01
SPEAKER_01: On the other hand, there's this make market idea, which is that you which is something that you look for a need that isn't being met, or you look for a problem that you could that you can solve that other people are not solving, and that fits within your passion, that is something that you drive towards.
27:17
SPEAKER_01: And it may be a barrier to get in because people they aren't doing that right now, or they don't they don't see that need right now.
27:22
SPEAKER_01: So you have this barrier to being able to get in.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: And once you do, you become the source and you begin to be able to have impact legions of people.
27:33
SPEAKER_01: I recognized that creatives and entrepreneurs were that piece.
27:37
SPEAKER_01: But if I tried to go do sales and I tried to go and I tried to go out and do retail, that I do help clients.
27:44
SPEAKER_01: I have clients in those spaces, but I don't chase that because it's it doesn't make sense for my mission.
27:50
SPEAKER_01: Now, do I use my retail merchandising philosophy with some of my current clients?
27:55
SPEAKER_01: Of course.
27:56
SPEAKER_01: Do I use the sales philosophies all the time, but not in the way that makes that exact same direct impact?
28:01
SPEAKER_01: So to I guess to say that I don't use the things that I'm best at would not be fair.
28:06
SPEAKER_01: But to say that I don't target them or go use them as like that is the one thing I do is fair because it wasn't the thing that got me the furthest, the fastest towards what was truly my North Star.
28:18
SPEAKER_00: Hey, I hope you're enjoying the conversation, and we'll get back to it in just a couple minutes.
28:22
SPEAKER_00: But first I want to take a second to mention that this episode is brought to you by Convert Kit.
28:27
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29:27
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29:31
SPEAKER_00: And now let's get back to the conversation with Dom.
29:35
SPEAKER_00: Now let me take this a step further and I'll just use myself as a guinea pig because I don't really know anybody else as well as I know myself.
29:42
SPEAKER_00: So a lot of people listening to this are again, I'm going to throw out this label creative types.
29:47
SPEAKER_00: That's a generic label.
29:49
SPEAKER_00: We all know that, but I don't know what other label to use.
29:51
SPEAKER_00: So a lot of creative types and artists are good at a lot of different things.
29:55
SPEAKER_00: So for example, I'll take myself.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: If I lost my job today, you know, I'm a full-time college professor, I've got a side business, so if I lost my job, I could uh go about 10 different directions.
30:04
SPEAKER_00: I could pursue podcast consulting, I could do speaking, I could you know write more books, I could do freelance writing, uh, I could write podcast show notes, I could do lots of different things.
30:16
SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of people are stuck in that uh mode of indecision where they say, well, I could do a lot of different things to bring in income, but but what do I do?
30:25
SPEAKER_00: You know, when they get paralyzed.
30:26
SPEAKER_00: What would you say to that person who is stuck in on that treadmill of indecision because they can do a lot of different things?
30:33
SPEAKER_00: How do they pick the right thing, or how do they get past the fear of picking the wrong thing when it comes to having a business, adding value, making sales, making money, that type of thing?
30:44
SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna answer the second question first, and then I I want to dig into the uh to the first question because I think it's a critical topic, and it's really the second half of the North Star conversation.
30:57
SPEAKER_01: The second question was how do I avoid picking the wrong things?
31:00
SPEAKER_01: And the answer is you don't.
31:02
SPEAKER_01: You you limit your risk, but you accept that you're gonna make some mistakes.
31:06
SPEAKER_01: So many people are focused on I have to do it exactly where I can't make any mistakes.
31:10
SPEAKER_01: And that's just not true.
31:11
SPEAKER_01: There's a a quote for a quote rather from General Patton that I like quite a lot.
31:15
SPEAKER_01: And the the summary of the quote, I always miss a couple words, so we'll just call we'll just call it a facsimile of the quote, is that an imperfect plan violently executed today is better than a perfect plan executed next week.
31:30
SPEAKER_00: I love that.
31:31
SPEAKER_01: In other words, take action when you're 70 and 80 percent of the way there, instead of waiting to get those last few percent before you move.
31:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh, a quote that I like a lot, and and actually am working on a t-shirt for at the moment is that motion trumps emotion.
31:48
SPEAKER_01: Most of my creative types get frozen up in their emotion, having nothing to do with the logic of the situation or the reality of it.
31:55
SPEAKER_01: For what it's worth, I've spent plenty of my life in that same world.
31:58
SPEAKER_01: Me too.
31:58
SPEAKER_01: And I have I have right, so I've come to understand a really basic principle that motion trumps emotion.
32:05
SPEAKER_01: Uh, a simple a simple piece of that.
32:08
SPEAKER_01: If you're feeling upset, get up and go walk around your house for two minutes.
32:11
SPEAKER_01: You will feel better.
32:13
SPEAKER_01: A an even simpler version, if you find yourself like getting stressed and hunching over the computer, sit up, lift your head up, take one deep breath, look left, all the way left, look all the way right, and then take one more deep breath, and you will find that you will now see the forest instead of the tree that you were unintentionally hugging.
32:32
SPEAKER_01: That these are simple behaviors that get that motion and that that and break that spot that we're in that will help greatly.
32:39
SPEAKER_01: So that's that's the example.
32:41
SPEAKER_01: It's okay to make wrong decisions.
32:42
SPEAKER_01: It's oh it's it's about percentages.
32:44
SPEAKER_01: I um I I'll share an example that I learned from a senior executive that I worked with.
32:50
SPEAKER_01: He uh he really challenged me because I wasn't comfortable working in the gray.
32:55
SPEAKER_01: And it's interesting, but that most creatives are not comfortable working in the gray.
32:59
SPEAKER_01: True.
33:00
SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's because they like so much color.
33:02
SPEAKER_01: But but it's it, they as much as in their art, in their creations, they will they'll create and it'll move and it can change, and that's cool.
33:11
SPEAKER_01: When they start thinking about business, they get locked up because they think that it has to be exactly one way and they have to have all the information before they make a decision.
33:18
SPEAKER_01: One of the best pieces of advice I got is that every level that you that you move up in business, you have to become more comfortable with making decisions with a smaller percentage of the information.
33:30
SPEAKER_01: And that most senior executives have to be comfortable making a decision, and you're talking millions-of-dollar decisions or billions-of-dollar decisions with 70% of the information, they have to make a call.
33:42
SPEAKER_01: That is terrifying.
33:43
SPEAKER_00: And I should think about that.
33:45
SPEAKER_00: I mean, isn't that at its core kind of what leadership is?
33:48
SPEAKER_00: A leader, they lead, they make a decision when they don't have all the information.
33:53
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that like defines leadership.
33:56
SPEAKER_01: It does in many ways, but we don't think of it that way.
34:00
SPEAKER_01: Most people think, well, the leader has more information than I do, so they must have all the answers, so that's why they made the decision.
34:06
SPEAKER_01: And that's the perception of leadership.
34:08
SPEAKER_01: But the reality is you're taking the education and the batting average, if you will, the ability to develop a really high batting average, and that it helps you improve as a leader.
34:20
SPEAKER_00: Boy, that that is, I'm gonna be thinking about that for a while.
34:23
SPEAKER_00: Every so often somebody says something in one of these podcast interviews that I go, man, I'm gonna be thinking about that for the next week or so.
34:30
SPEAKER_00: So good job.
34:32
SPEAKER_01: Well, I appreciate that.
34:33
SPEAKER_01: Uh for for sure.
34:34
SPEAKER_01: Glad to uh glad to challenge the thoughts and perceptions anywhere that I can.
34:38
SPEAKER_01: Uh we if you if you want, we can we can go back and touch on the the uh the idea of of now how we make that decision.
34:46
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
34:47
SPEAKER_01: Or I'm glad to go further down the why.
34:48
SPEAKER_01: I'm go I'm glad to go further down the why if you'd like.
34:50
SPEAKER_00: Well, maybe both of those things.
34:51
SPEAKER_00: I think they both uh because a lot of people I know are stuck in this paralysis by analysis kind of mode, and I think anything we can do to help trigger them getting out of that mode would be helpful.
35:02
SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
35:03
SPEAKER_01: Well, let's uh let's start then with a bucket and a teaspoon.
35:09
SPEAKER_01: One of my favorite analogies.
35:11
SPEAKER_01: If if everybody that that's listening, you you take a minute and you think of all the tasks you have in front of you, and maybe maybe just to put it in the this context, all of the options that you have in front of you.
35:20
SPEAKER_01: So you have, if you're an author, you could you can write a book, you can do the podcasting, you can do the blog, all the things that you listed, Ken.
35:26
SPEAKER_01: And you've got all of them in front of you, and they're all fires that are that are burning.
35:30
SPEAKER_01: They're all things that you could do, they're all things that you want to pay attention to.
35:34
SPEAKER_01: You have a limited amount of resources.
35:36
SPEAKER_01: We wish we didn't, but unless we're unless we are unbelievably wealthy, we have a pretty finite amount of resources.
35:43
SPEAKER_01: Often, the resources that we have left over in our life after we do our family and our primary job, and this, and then we've got the side hustle, and we get one little bucket.
35:53
SPEAKER_01: It's not even a big bucket of water.
35:56
SPEAKER_01: So the the issue comes in that 90 plus percent of the people I work with would call themselves, after I describe this, teaspoon people.
36:05
SPEAKER_01: What that means is that they'll take and they'll say, I have all these cool things.
36:09
SPEAKER_01: They're exciting, they're fun, they're shiny, and I want to do them all because I want to be the person who is known for taking care of stuff.
36:15
SPEAKER_01: And so they will take and they'll put a teaspoon of water on every fire.
36:18
SPEAKER_01: Now, Kent, what do you think happens if you put a teaspoon of water on a big old fire?
36:22
SPEAKER_00: Well, not much.
36:23
SPEAKER_01: Not much, exactly.
36:25
SPEAKER_01: And so what happens is we make ourselves feel mentally better because I addressed everything, but we actually get nothing done.
36:33
SPEAKER_01: We don't put out the fire, and in fact, more fires come up.
36:36
SPEAKER_01: We get new ideas and new shiny ideas, and that's and that's great.
36:39
SPEAKER_01: And now suddenly we're surrounded by fires, and the fires are controlling us, and that's when you hit overwhelm.
36:43
SPEAKER_01: That feeling is familiar to most people.
36:46
SPEAKER_01: The solution is not doing more of the same and hoping that you get lucky and find a path out of the fire, or that somebody grabs a fire and starts uh and starts dumping water on it for you.
36:56
SPEAKER_01: It's great when those things happen, but that's not generally reality.
37:00
SPEAKER_01: The solution for this that I that I work through with my clients and that I that I share when I train is to take the bucket and look around at the fires and ask yourself which one or two of these things, if I do them, will make all of the others either easier, meaning get smaller, or go away.
37:19
SPEAKER_01: So you look, maybe you're looking for what's the fire that's on top of the hill that that's got a couple fires below it.
37:24
SPEAKER_01: And then you take and you dump the entire bucket on that one or two fires.
37:28
SPEAKER_01: Now, the challenge with dumping the entire bucket is that you don't have any teaspoons left, which means you have to do the hardest thing mentally of this entire process.
37:36
SPEAKER_01: You have to let the other fires burn.
37:38
SPEAKER_00: You have to make some choices.
37:40
SPEAKER_01: It's not just choices.
37:42
SPEAKER_01: It's you have to let go and say, look, I'll put them on a list, I'll keep them organized, but I'm not gonna do any of those things.
37:49
SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna touch them, I'm not gonna be near them, I'm gonna focus all of my efforts on this other thing because it's the thing, as we'll talk about with this decision filter concept, that moves us the furthest the fastest.
38:01
SPEAKER_01: And if I choose to spend even an hour or two hours of my effort on something that doesn't move me the furthest the fastest, that is saying I'm willing to move slower and not go as far.
38:12
SPEAKER_01: And that that's a hard thing for us to grab because we are so hardwired to try and do everything.
38:17
SPEAKER_00: Boy, that is that's really insightful.
38:19
SPEAKER_00: And see, I have wondered the same thing even about, you know, as we're recording this episode.
38:23
SPEAKER_00: I've wondered that about this very podcast.
38:26
SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's pretty time consuming to do.
38:27
SPEAKER_00: You know, on average, it's a few hours a week.
38:30
SPEAKER_00: With most podcasts, and I would say that's true with this one, there's not a direct return on investment.
38:37
SPEAKER_00: You know, you can't say, oh, I'm trading these specific hours for this amount of income or whatever how whatever metrics you use to measure the success of a podcast.
38:45
SPEAKER_00: But uh I mean I would say it's successful in a a lot of different ways, including making connections and opening up my own creativity and and being curious and all that stuff.
38:53
SPEAKER_00: But but I have wondered that before.
38:55
SPEAKER_00: And maybe there are other people listening to this who are involved in things where you you just don't know if you have no way of measuring sometimes which fires to put out.
39:06
SPEAKER_01: So is there any kind of Oh, see, there's where we might disagree.
39:11
SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay Well, yeah, yeah, help us with that.
39:14
SPEAKER_01: How do you know which fires?
39:16
SPEAKER_01: Right.
39:16
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's a it's uh it's a common it is a common discussion I have with people, right?
39:21
SPEAKER_01: Is that is that we think that things aren't measurable.
39:24
SPEAKER_01: And I and but there's a there's a phrase that I like, and it's actually a training I'm getting ready to do this week, or next week, rather, which is business is math.
39:33
SPEAKER_01: Now, creatives don't love to hear that, right?
39:35
SPEAKER_01: Because we we don't we don't like to think that everything can be defined.
39:39
SPEAKER_01: But virtually everything, I can put math to it, and that's part of what I help my clients with is beginning to see the formula.
39:47
SPEAKER_01: Almost everything that you do, podcast or otherwise, can be fall into a basic formula that leads from leads to appointments to sales to recurring revenue.
39:57
SPEAKER_01: What that timeline is will vary.
40:00
SPEAKER_01: What the math is of what conversion percentages you have from them will vary, but they can all be put into that formula, and that's something that can really help people to define their business.
40:11
SPEAKER_01: But I think answering your your core question first of how do we, what's the framework we even decide from is probably better.
40:19
SPEAKER_01: And it's a it's a concept that I call a decision filter that's that is really two questions.
40:24
SPEAKER_01: If if you'd like it, if we if you'd like to break those two questions down, yeah, let's do that pretty simply as well.
40:30
SPEAKER_01: So, question one if you're facing something, so here's what we do we have all these things that are in front of us that we love.
40:35
SPEAKER_01: And then what do we do?
40:37
SPEAKER_01: We're so excited about those, and we see what we have that squirrel moment.
40:42
SPEAKER_01: So we're driving along a squirrel, and we start looking and we get all excited, and our mind goes racing about that and totally forgets about the 97 other things that we were just thinking that we had to do, and we get distracted.
40:53
SPEAKER_01: The problem is that also pulls us from our goal.
40:55
SPEAKER_01: So we have to ask when every time we see a squirrel or whatever is representative of that squirrel, that shiny thing that we might want to do.
41:03
SPEAKER_01: So instead of this podcast, maybe now in addition to this, you get asked from somebody, hey, do you want to partner on that?
41:09
SPEAKER_01: Or in my case, I got I got asked, do you want to go to Asia?
41:12
SPEAKER_01: And I had to pause and I had to pause and ask a question.
41:16
SPEAKER_01: Does that move me the furthest the fastest?
41:19
SPEAKER_01: So, question one, there's only two, so it's not that complicated.
41:22
SPEAKER_01: Question one, when I encounter something, is does this move me the furthest to fastest towards my North Star?
41:27
SPEAKER_01: Have to have your North Star defined, but does this move me the furthest to fastest towards it?
41:31
SPEAKER_01: There are only two answers.
41:33
SPEAKER_01: It's either yes or no.
41:35
SPEAKER_01: If the answer, I'm sorry, I misquoted, I apologize.
41:40
SPEAKER_01: The uh it is, does this move me towards it?
41:43
SPEAKER_01: I apologize.
41:44
SPEAKER_01: The furthest to fastest comes in a minute.
41:46
SPEAKER_01: Uh question one is question one is does this move me towards my north star or away from it?
41:53
SPEAKER_01: If it moves you toward your north star, then you will go on to question number two.
42:00
SPEAKER_01: If it moves you away from your north star, then the activity goes away.
42:04
SPEAKER_01: It might be something you like, it may be something you're interested in, it doesn't help you towards your north star, and you don't really have time for it unless you have extra like bonus time outside of this.
42:14
SPEAKER_01: That's fine.
42:14
SPEAKER_01: But in the context of your business, in the context of this hustle, in the context of you getting to your North Star, it's not an activity that you should do or spend any time on.
42:23
SPEAKER_01: If it does move you towards your North Star, we move to question number two.
42:27
SPEAKER_01: Question number two is does this move me the furthest, the fastest?
42:33
SPEAKER_01: Or rather, is there anything else that moves me further faster?
42:38
SPEAKER_01: If there is something else that moves me further, faster, I take a very important step here.
42:43
SPEAKER_01: This is psychological leadership, business, entrepreneurship, 70% of it is psychology, and the rest is the rest is action.
42:53
SPEAKER_01: All of it's execution put together, but a lot of it is mindset.
42:57
SPEAKER_01: I like to say, and it's a it's a famous quote, but I really like it that life is 20% what happens to you and 80% how you respond to it.
43:04
SPEAKER_01: And I'm I'm I'm that resonates with me a great deal.
43:08
SPEAKER_01: So when I'm picking what I do, I have to recognize what's the psychology and how do I handle that.
43:14
SPEAKER_01: In this case, I know that I've got this new exciting thing that I'm really interested in, but I've agreed that it doesn't move me the furthest to fastest.
43:21
SPEAKER_01: So I have to do something with it, or I'm gonna be processing it for the next week.
43:26
SPEAKER_01: And that's all I'm gonna be thinking about because it's new and exciting until I get the next squirrel moment.
43:30
SPEAKER_01: So I reach over to my prioritized list.
43:32
SPEAKER_01: I keep a list that is prioritized in order of what moves me the furthest to fastest.
43:37
SPEAKER_01: And I go down the list asking, where did it, is it faster than this?
43:41
SPEAKER_01: Is it faster than this?
43:42
SPEAKER_01: Is it faster than this?
43:43
SPEAKER_01: Until I find my slot and then I add it into the list.
43:46
SPEAKER_01: Very interesting thing happens psychologically here in that you are now, you have now done something with it.
43:52
SPEAKER_01: So it mentally goes off your list and your mind will calm down about it because it is actually scheduled.
43:59
SPEAKER_01: You know.
44:00
SPEAKER_01: Right in the schedule where it occurs and where it fits, so you feel better without having to actually go and do it.
44:06
SPEAKER_01: This solves a lot of the distractability problem.
44:10
SPEAKER_00: You know, this makes a lot of this makes a lot of sense.
44:12
SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
44:15
SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's great.
44:16
SPEAKER_01: Uh the the the flip side is what what if I say it does move me the furthest to fastest?
44:22
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's simple.
44:23
SPEAKER_01: That's the thing you do.
44:27
SPEAKER_01: So that's that's the decision filter.
44:29
SPEAKER_01: It's really just those two questions.
44:30
SPEAKER_01: If you have your North Star and you understand the idea of the bucket and the teaspoon, and you apply these two questions to everything that you do, you will have a much clearer picture of which things you should be doing right now.
44:42
SPEAKER_00: So what if what if you're deciding between things and you're not clear on which would move you the?
44:48
SPEAKER_00: You know, maybe they're all good things that would take you toward your North Star, but let's say somebody's deciding between should I launch a podcast, should I write a book, should I do speaking, should I do coaching, should I do whatever things.
45:00
SPEAKER_00: What if someone isn't really clear on which of those would move them the furthest, the fastest?
45:04
SPEAKER_00: Is it a matter of just getting more information or maybe getting s getting some feedback from somebody who knows a lot about those specific industries or or types of connections?
45:16
SPEAKER_01: All right.
45:16
SPEAKER_01: So I have a growth in gratitude exercise that I love that I find immensely helpful.
45:21
SPEAKER_01: And this leads into my passion for learning.
45:26
SPEAKER_01: The these provide a framework for me that gives structure and stability.
45:30
SPEAKER_01: I like to establish what I call tent poles for both people that work for and with me and for myself that put a tent over the chaos.
45:37
SPEAKER_01: And these are a couple of those tent poles.
45:38
SPEAKER_01: So every morning I write down three things that uh that are non-repetitive that I'm grateful for.
45:43
SPEAKER_01: Takes me about two minutes.
45:45
SPEAKER_01: I stole the idea from one of the people that I follow, Tim Ferriss, from a podcast that I listened to and the five-minute journal.
45:51
SPEAKER_01: And it came from there and I love I and it edited and I edited it down to my own version.
45:58
SPEAKER_01: So every morning I write those down.
46:00
SPEAKER_01: And what I find is about two and a half weeks after I start that behavior, even 12 hours later, I'm living a more grateful life and have a more grateful attitude as I encounter things.
46:09
SPEAKER_01: So then I add in the in the evening, I I do my growth exercise, which also takes about two minutes.
46:15
SPEAKER_01: And the there I ask myself the question, what did I learn today?
46:20
SPEAKER_01: What did I grow?
46:21
SPEAKER_01: How did I go forward?
46:23
SPEAKER_01: And if I don't have an answer for some reason, then I keep a book next to it.
46:26
SPEAKER_01: I read it for 15 minutes, and then I have an answer.
46:28
SPEAKER_01: It then it ensures that no matter what, I go forward every day.
46:32
SPEAKER_01: I believe that every day you either move forward or backward.
46:35
SPEAKER_01: And if you think you're sitting still, you're sliding slowly backward.
46:38
SPEAKER_01: So I never want to have a day in the rest of my life where I don't get better.
46:42
SPEAKER_01: And to that end, answering your question, the first thing I do is I go and I learn.
46:47
SPEAKER_01: I study it, I try to find what I can.
46:49
SPEAKER_01: I reach out to people like you said who are good at it.
46:51
SPEAKER_01: I read books and I learn.
46:53
SPEAKER_01: The second step is the one that I mentioned earlier, which is that I recognize business is math.
46:58
SPEAKER_01: And the way I evaluate, which will move me the furthest, the fastest in virtually every case, is that I put it into math.
47:06
SPEAKER_01: I turn it into how many revenue dollars will this create in what span of time?
47:13
SPEAKER_01: And assuming that my goal is related to revenue dollars, most people, once they label their north star and they recognize that their north star is at revenue dollars and they step one level down and ask what gets me there, it there's generally a money component that is related to that.
47:29
SPEAKER_01: If there's not, that's fine.
47:30
SPEAKER_01: And it and it may work a little differently.
47:32
SPEAKER_01: But if there is, as there so often is, then I want to know the math of the revenue that it returns.
47:38
SPEAKER_01: It might be that you have a follower goal or something like that.
47:41
SPEAKER_01: You can determine how many followers it'll return.
47:43
SPEAKER_01: But in most cases, it's going to be one of those.
47:45
SPEAKER_01: And I simply create the the numbers and take my best guess.
47:49
SPEAKER_01: This is this is another spot where people get stuck, is that they say, Well, I don't, I don't know.
47:54
SPEAKER_01: I don't, I don't, I don't have the perfect answer.
47:56
SPEAKER_01: That's cool.
47:57
SPEAKER_01: Take your best shot.
47:58
SPEAKER_01: If you're like, I don't know how many people I need to talk to to find someone that's interested.
48:02
SPEAKER_01: Well, you can go do a little testing if you want, take an hour or two and test.
48:06
SPEAKER_01: Or you can say, hey, look, I think if I talk to 10 people, one of them will probably be interested.
48:12
SPEAKER_01: And take your best shot.
48:13
SPEAKER_01: Since your math is going to be done the same from your own perspective, in a relative way, the evaluations will be the same.
48:22
SPEAKER_01: Now, if I do math for half of your stuff and you do math for half of your stuff, then our math may get mixed up.
48:27
SPEAKER_01: But if you're doing it for all yourself, you're making the same assumptions in each case.
48:31
SPEAKER_01: And you're going to be healthy and stable, and it's going to give you a clear sense of what comes out further, faster.
48:36
SPEAKER_01: So the last note that I would say, especially to all of our creative listeners and most of my clients, is don't be afraid of the math.
48:43
SPEAKER_01: It is not complicated.
48:44
SPEAKER_01: I'm not asking you to do like fourth year calculus.
48:48
SPEAKER_01: Not at all.
48:48
SPEAKER_01: My wife, my wife does advanced math.
48:50
SPEAKER_01: I don't.
48:52
SPEAKER_01: I do pretty basic math and just try to help people see that there are that there are numbers that will drive us forward that are not scary, but that help us to win.
49:04
SPEAKER_00: I love the idea of quantifying your time and quantifying mathematically or even dollar-wise the value of something that you're spending time on.
49:14
SPEAKER_00: Because it is so easy to just get sucked into wasting time on social media or sending out email newsletters or doing blog posts or podcasts or, you know, there's lots of shiny objects out there that we can get distracted with.
49:28
SPEAKER_00: But just taking the time to quantify the value of each of those, I think, is really helpful.
49:33
SPEAKER_00: So I know I'm definitely going to be doing some of that here in the next couple of weeks as I look at what I'm spending my time on and saying, okay, what's actually bringing results, what's actually bringing in revenue, and so forth.
49:44
SPEAKER_00: Well, Dan, thanks for taking time to do this today.
49:46
SPEAKER_00: You have delivered a ton of value.
49:48
SPEAKER_00: I've taken a whole page of notes, and when I go to edit this in a few weeks, I'm going to take a lot more notes as well.
49:54
SPEAKER_00: So I appreciate you as uh as a business leader, as a friend who I've gotten to know the last few months, and just as an all-around cool guy.
50:04
SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
50:04
SPEAKER_01: I appreciate you for all of those same reasons, and I'm I'm honored to have the opportunity to be out here and for you to for you to trust me with this time and your audience.
50:14
SPEAKER_01: And I I sincerely hope that we've provided value that can help each of them step a little bit closer to their dreams.
50:21
SPEAKER_01: And my my reminder to everybody is just simply that that dreams are real.
50:27
SPEAKER_00: Awesome.
50:27
SPEAKER_00: Well, thanks so much, Dan.
50:28
SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
50:30
SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
50:36
SPEAKER_00: I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Dan.
50:38
SPEAKER_00: I really love chatting with him, and I took away so much, and this was one of those conversations where it was honestly really hard to boil it down to three takeaways.
50:47
SPEAKER_00: If you've heard these conversations before on the podcast, you know that I always conclude with three takeaways or three action steps or three things that I learned from the conversation with the guests.
50:58
SPEAKER_00: So even though it was really hard to boil it down, here are my three biggest takeaways from my conversation with Dan.
51:05
SPEAKER_00: Number one, if you are alive and breathing, you are involved in sales.
51:12
SPEAKER_00: You know, a lot of artists and creatives feel very weird about selling.
51:17
SPEAKER_00: They feel like it's kind of an icky thing like you know, I don't want to be a used car salesman or I don't want to be that guy in a polyester suit with slick back hair trying to cajole people into buying something for me.
51:28
SPEAKER_00: And there's something about sales and business that makes a lot of creative people feel sort of icky and weird.
51:34
SPEAKER_00: But I want you to know that that is all a construct.
51:36
SPEAKER_00: There's nothing wrong with business and sales.
51:38
SPEAKER_00: And in fact, if if we don't learn to love business and sales and view it in the correct light, then we're not going to have a very successful business, are we?
51:46
SPEAKER_00: All that sales is, is persuasion.
51:48
SPEAKER_00: And all of us, as Dan mentioned, are involved in sales all of the time.
51:53
SPEAKER_00: Whenever I'm trying to convince my teenager to do something you know, and something that is good for him and something that I would like him to do or to consider, that's a sales process.
52:03
SPEAKER_00: Whenever I'm dealing with my students, I'm a col you know, I'm a college professor in my day job.
52:08
SPEAKER_00: So whenever I'm trying to convince my students to turn in their assignments, that's a sales process.
52:13
SPEAKER_00: But also whenever I sell a book or sell something on my website, that is a sales process.
52:18
SPEAKER_00: All that sales is, is persuasion.
52:21
SPEAKER_00: And there's a right way to do it and a wrong way to do it.
52:23
SPEAKER_00: But the point of this takeaway here is that it's not a matter of whether you're selling, you are selling.
52:29
SPEAKER_00: The real question is whether you're good at it and whether you understand that sales, when it's done ethically and when it's done the right way, is a really, really wonderful thing.
52:39
SPEAKER_00: And I think that this idea alone can really change your perception of sales as a creative person and as an artist.
52:46
SPEAKER_00: That's takeaway number one.
52:48
SPEAKER_00: Takeaway number two is this we mustn't get off the treadmill of indecision.
52:55
SPEAKER_00: Now, I'm sure that nobody listening to this podcast or that's listening to my voice right now is a person who has trouble making decisions.
53:03
SPEAKER_00: There's no people who overanalyze or overthink everything.
53:06
SPEAKER_00: All of us make quick decisions that are informed and correct, right?
53:09
SPEAKER_00: Well, of course you know I'm being sarcastic because I am a perfectionist at heart and I really struggle with indecision and overthinking things.
53:18
SPEAKER_00: Just ask my wife.
53:19
SPEAKER_00: She will tell you that I can go through the Starbucks drive-thru and get paralyzed because of all the decisions you have to make about what to order.
53:25
SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's just too many things to think about.
53:28
SPEAKER_00: Why do we sometimes overthink things as an artist?
53:31
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think the real thing is that we don't want to pick the wrong area.
53:36
SPEAKER_00: We don't want to pick the wrong thing or go the wrong direction or go down some rabbit trail and and waste you know months or years of our life pursuing the wrong thing.
53:44
SPEAKER_00: But here's the big thing is that you cannot be right all the time.
53:48
SPEAKER_00: And you can't avoid picking the wrong thing.
53:51
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we are gonna pick the wrong thing, but that's never taking us in the wrong direction.
53:56
SPEAKER_00: We're still moving forward.
53:58
SPEAKER_00: It's just a matter of taking a risk, making an informed decision, making the decision the best that we can in the moment with the information that we have, and then limiting our risk factor.
54:09
SPEAKER_00: Just so just know that you're gonna make mistakes.
54:11
SPEAKER_00: You're you're not gonna get it perfect.
54:12
SPEAKER_00: We're all going to mess up at times, but that's just part of the process of being an entrepreneur and having a business.
54:19
SPEAKER_00: So we've got to take action whenever we are 80% there.
54:23
SPEAKER_00: We can't study it to death and wait until we have all the information and and all the data.
54:28
SPEAKER_00: We just gotta we gotta go and we've gotta make a decision.
54:32
SPEAKER_00: Dan mentioned that motion trumps emotion, and I love that concept because sometimes we just get emotionally paralyzed at a decision.
54:40
SPEAKER_00: But we've just got to get in motion and take action and then as we take that action, then we'll discover what's working and what's not working.
54:48
SPEAKER_00: I also loved Dan's suggestion about how if you're feeling upset to just get up and walk around for a few minutes and that will really give you clarity.
54:55
SPEAKER_00: I thought that was a great suggestion, and I'm definitely gonna be implementing that in the future.
55:01
SPEAKER_00: Takeaway number three is determine your North Star because it guides everything else.
55:06
SPEAKER_00: Dan talked about how to determine your North Star.
55:09
SPEAKER_00: He said, keep digging down into why you want certain things.
55:12
SPEAKER_00: For me, my ultimate North Star is as far as my business goes, for me, the ultimate goal is financial and time freedom for my family.
55:21
SPEAKER_00: That is my North Star.
55:22
SPEAKER_00: That is what's guiding me in terms of my career and vocation.
55:26
SPEAKER_00: Now, what about you?
55:27
SPEAKER_00: That may not be your North Star.
55:29
SPEAKER_00: What matters to you?
55:30
SPEAKER_00: What are you trying to accomplish in the long run?
55:33
SPEAKER_00: And if you haven't thought about that, I would really encourage you to sit down and just do some journaling and thinking and praying about that.
55:39
SPEAKER_00: What is it ultimately that you want to accomplish as a creative entrepreneur or as an artist?
55:45
SPEAKER_00: As you look at all the activities that you're involved in, which things move you the furthest the fastest?
55:51
SPEAKER_00: Which things are helping you move toward your ultimate goal?
55:56
SPEAKER_00: Something that Dan mentioned, which is uh which is very insightful.
56:00
SPEAKER_00: He said everything is measurable.
56:02
SPEAKER_00: Whatever activity you're doing, it is measurable in time and in dollars in some sense or another.
56:07
SPEAKER_00: So are the things that you're doing leading to more sales?
56:10
SPEAKER_00: Does it move you toward your n North Star or away from your North Star?
56:15
SPEAKER_00: I realize these are all really hard questions, and I get it.
56:18
SPEAKER_00: As a creative person, sometimes all that I want to do is shut my brain off from all these kinds of questions, and I just want to sit down and write a story, or I want to dabble on my guitar, or I just want to do something that feels creative and doesn't feel like it's thinking.
56:32
SPEAKER_00: So I get it.
56:33
SPEAKER_00: These kinds of things can easily exhaust those of us who are artists.
56:37
SPEAKER_00: But if we want to have a business and if we want to do something impactful, it ain't gonna happen by accident.
56:42
SPEAKER_00: We've got to take action and we've got to think about the business aspect of this.
56:46
SPEAKER_00: And again, as I mentioned earlier, if we think about it in the correct way, this allows us to serve our audience better.
56:53
SPEAKER_00: The more the more that we really think about these things and that we try to think like a business person and and think about sales the correct way and think about metrics and and numbers and all those kinds of things, it doesn't have to overwhelm us or become you know the most the most important thing, but it does absolutely need to be a part of what we're doing if we want to make a bigger impact.
57:14
SPEAKER_00: So those are some some things to think about.
57:17
SPEAKER_00: Um those are my thoughts, but I would love to hear what you think about this episode, as well as the podcast in general.
57:23
SPEAKER_00: You can do that in a couple of different ways.
57:25
SPEAKER_00: First of all, you can go over to Apple Podcast and leave a rating and a review.
57:28
SPEAKER_00: That's always super helpful.
57:30
SPEAKER_00: Or you can also leave a comment on this episode at KentSanders.net slash zero eight seven, where you're also going to find the show notes and the links.
57:40
SPEAKER_00: And of course, you can always email me at Kent at KentSanders.net.
57:45
SPEAKER_00: I want to thank Dan McPherson for taking the time out of his really busy schedule to share in this amazing conversation.
57:51
SPEAKER_00: And if you enjoyed this episode, please let Dan know that you got something out of it and what you learned by hitting him up on Twitter at LeadersMustle.
58:01
SPEAKER_00: Finally, I want to thank you because without you the show wouldn't exist.
58:05
SPEAKER_00: So I know there's tons of podcasts and tons of things you could be listening to right now, but the fact that you're listening to this really means a lot to me, so thank you.
58:13
SPEAKER_00: Make sure to check out my free ultimate toolkit for creative entrepreneurs, which is packed with 24 amazing resources to help you write and self-publish your book, unlock your creative genius, grow your business, and become more productive.
58:27
SPEAKER_00: You can find the free toolkit at KentSanders.net slash toolkit.
58:32
SPEAKER_00: I want to end with a quote from Pablo Picasso, who said, inspiration does exist, but it must find you working.
58:40
SPEAKER_00: I hope that encourages you on your creative journey in the coming week and in the coming months.
58:44
SPEAKER_00: Until next time, remember that you were born to create and design to make a difference.
58:49
SPEAKER_00: Now go create something awesome.