Latest / onefjef / Music, Meditation & Meaning with Jesse Cale

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Music, Meditation & Meaning with Jesse Cale · onefjef

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One of the things I would love to promote is encouraging people to make that leap of faith
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towards themselves.
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Whatever that looks like.
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I like this.
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Take a chance.
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Take a chance.
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Get out of that comfort zone.
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Get out of the comfort zone and I'm not saying necessarily buy a ticket and go to a
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country, I'm saying take a step in.
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This is episode 31 of onefjef.
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21 arrives like a turning point, the opening of a satan cycle, a season of reckoning and
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rebuilding.
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In tarot it resolves to for the number of foundations where creativity settles into form.
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The body mirrors it with 31 pairs of spinal nerves, threads of sensation running through
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us, and even the word 31 stands apart.
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Every letter appearing only once a small linguistics singularity.
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Hello my friends.
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Here we are.
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We are here.
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In 2026 it's happening.
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Another year is happening.
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Every year that comes I'm just like, wow, really?
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And yet, and yet.
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About two years ago my friend Brad asked me if I wanted to go to a sound bath.
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I had been to a couple sound baths at my yoga studio and it was mostly just like a guy
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who brought a bunch of sound bowls and other random instruments like didgeridoo and stuff.
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Wandering around, playing the instruments while we all light on our backs, listening to
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them.
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And I liked it but I wasn't like, whoa.
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But this sound bath I went to with Brad was different.
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It was on a full moon and we go to this building which was an old church and you walk in and
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it's this entire vibe.
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I mean there's like cool projection lights, there's like all these stations with different,
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you know, fortunes and different tarot cards and different kind of things you could do.
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It was really something else.
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And then the sound bath begins and it's less a sound bath.
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It's more a sound concert.
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We're lying on our backs, pillows and everything.
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And he's got like ten musicians kind of wandering around the space playing different instruments.
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And he's planned it all out to kind of go through like an hour long meditative thing.
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It's really incredible.
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My mind was blown.
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It was like, whoa, this is happening in Columbus.
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And after that I went to like, I don't know, seven or eight of them and yeah, had some profound
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experiences in these sound baths.
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And the man who created this sound bath concert experience is my guest today.
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Jesse Cale is a musician, poet and meditation guide best known as the founder of hOm.
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His work lives at the intersection of music, language and contemplative practice using
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sound not as performance but as a doorway into listening, presence and into the states of
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awareness.
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Drawing from his background in music and poetry, Jesse approaches sound baths as a form
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of composition and inquiry.
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Being a immersive experience is shaped by tone, rhythm, silence and attention.
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And I'm really glad that we could make this happen because Jesse is a fascinating guy.
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I feel here.
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He has had a very interesting life and has a very interesting perspective on life.
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And I think you're really going to enjoy this conversation.
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So thank you for listening.
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Thank you for being here.
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Here's Jesse Cale.
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I've actually been enjoying trying to be boring.
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Enjoying trying to be boring.
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I had some meetings walked through a business for doing a sound bath in an office and they
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were walking around.
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I just got the email about the Dayton one.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Where we've got a few coming up in Columbus, so you don't got to go all the way to Dayton.
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You're right.
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Are you coming back to the one in the church?
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No, we're not doing that many, many more.
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I'm trying to do like just smaller, more intimate ones.
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And we're doing the Columbus Museum of Art in the spring.
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Oh, that's fun.
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Yeah, so you did with East Forest there, yeah?
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Yeah, we did that last March.
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So we're going to do it again in March.
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I'm not sure who we're going to bring in.
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We might actually bring in an artist from Japan.
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Oh, cool.
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This woman, June Futamata, she's incredible.
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Amazing.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So how you got in my radar was, I don't know, about two years ago.
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Her friend of mine, Brad, he was like, you want to go to a sound bath?
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He had actually gone on a hinge date to one of your sound baths.
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Nice.
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And I'm like, sure, I'll go.
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I had no idea.
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Yeah.
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And my mind, I'll be honest, like my mind was blown.
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I've been in this city for like seven years.
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It was one of the coolest things I discovered in this city.
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Thank you.
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Thank you for that.
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It was like a revelation.
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I was like, oh, shit.
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Amazing.
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And then I ran into people that I knew from like yoga studios, like Anastasia.
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So yeah, thank you for doing that.
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That was a really amazing thing.
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But that, I mean, hearing, I don't, I don't poke and prod, I don't ask.
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Right, right, right.
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But when people share stuff like that with me, it means so much.
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No, I've had some profound experiences at your sound baths.
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Thank you.
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How did those get started?
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Oh, man.
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It turns on how far back we want to go.
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All right.
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Well, how much time do we have?
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What were you born in Columbus?
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I was born and raised in Columbus.
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Okay.
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I was actually born and raised not too far from here.
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Oh, right on.
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Yeah, right on.
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So actually over North London.
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Okay.
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I guess I'm back close now.
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So I grew up in Cleveland and with a doll over and then came back to Columbus.
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So I'm getting closer to home.
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Cool.
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Very cool.
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Yeah.
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Cleveland's got a cool vibe.
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Yeah, I like Cleveland a lot.
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I have mixed feelings about Columbus, but I like Cleveland a whole lot.
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It's got a, that is, that is so fair.
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It really is, isn't it?
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Yeah.
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It's hard to argue with.
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Columbus needs like a, like a, it needs to figure out what it is.
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You know what I mean?
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Yeah, well, it needs to figure out, oh man, it doesn't have an identity.
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It doesn't have enough community space.
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That's true.
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You know, that's true.
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And I think the identity would be born out of that, but because, you know, people all
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being together would give birth to something, but it's just a city of islands.
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Yeah.
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And it has too much football.
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You know, I'm glad that we have one thing that we have like a major pride in.
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Right.
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I guess that's true.
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I'm not.
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I don't follow the Buckeyes anymore.
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I did when I was a little growing up, of course.
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Yeah, me too.
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Me too.
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Yeah.
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And that was always a fun thing.
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And then I got older and realized that not everybody cares about college football.
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And I was like, yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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When I moved back here, I followed them before I moved back here.
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Like not.
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But as a huge, huge fan, but still I'd follow them.
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Yeah.
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But then I came back here and I saw the cult like thing that goes on and I was just not really
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for sure.
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But I've just alienated probably 100% of my audience.
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Yeah.
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No, no, no, no, no.
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No, it's super fair.
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You know, it's definitely for a specific demographic, which Columbus really caters to.
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Yeah.
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I mean, Ohio.
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Ohio.
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Yeah.
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Ohio, definitely.
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Yeah.
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You know, being a big college town, having all of the major headquarters of corporations
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that we have here.
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Yeah.
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It is very much for the kind of professional moving through life and yeah, dend and loving
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football.
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So what was, what was like growing up here?
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What was your early years like?
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So that is where we can start to get to the sound bats because it really was like out the
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gate, you know?
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I was born into a, I was homeschooled.
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Okay.
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I was born into a Christian home.
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Okay.
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It was a branch of Christianity that really put a lot of emphasis on like mirroring.
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And, and magic.
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Huh.
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And what, what, what is your name for this brand?
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Yeah.
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So it was called empowered evangelicalism.
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Huh.
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I've never heard of this one.
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So it was born out of the Jesus-freak movement of the 70s.
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Okay.
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So like a little hippie-ish, a little.
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Yes.
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Definitely, definitely in its roots and some, and some hippie quality.
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All right.
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Which is what Jesus was.
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For sure.
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Absolutely.
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This is where they've gotten lost is they've forgotten that Jesus is just a hippie at
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heart.
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You know, yeah.
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You know, my parents would host people at the house and they would play music, you know,
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and I loved it.
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You know, my dad was a musician.
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My mom would play guitar too.
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They both sang.
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And they would then, they would sit quietly and they would, at the time, they would call,
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you know, they would say they're quote unquote, "waiting on the Lord."
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Sure.
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And they would just sit and listen.
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And then after a few minutes, everybody would kind of come back to and then they would have
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like, they called it prophetic words for each other.
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It's like, "Quakerism in a way."
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Like it's adjacent.
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Yeah.
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That's what they do.
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They just sit and wait for the message to come through.
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And it was very much that.
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And, you know, being, I was one, two, three, four years old, you know, watching the
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take place and people were getting these messages for one another that were very profound.
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And I would see the emotional response that people would have.
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And then they would do hands-on prayer, you know, which there's so many, that runs
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through so many practices.
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So many practices.
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And, yeah, yeah.
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And, you know, another form.
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And I would watch just these like really radical, emotional, and physical responses take place
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that were seemingly profoundly touching, healing, and moving for people.
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Okay.
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And I was very little.
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And being raised with that being a fundamental.
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Yeah.
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It was what really, it just led me into this place of wanting to be close to that type of relationship
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with the intangible, you know.
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Huh.
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Was the music good or was it Jesus music?
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It was worship music.
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It was Jesus music, you know.
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But there were like some songs that just had wonderful chord progressions.
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Sure.
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My dad was a great guitar player.
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He was a guitar.
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And I just loved it.
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And, you know, running simultaneously to that, my dad would just, you know, put on records,
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just be like, "Oh, you got to listen to this.
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Oh, you got to listen.
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It's just playing me music all the time."
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Right, right, right.
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My brother started guitar lessons.
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And I had an experience when I was four years old that really like set it off.
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You know, this is going down a more spiritual route.
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And it does tie back into, I mean, it really ties back into the soundbath stuff that we're
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on.
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But I had a big weight fall on my foot when I was four years old and crushed one of my
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toes.
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And my mom didn't know what to do, you know.
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So she just picked me up and she laid her hand on my foot and she prayed for it.
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And it just went back to normal.
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No kidding.
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Just immediately.
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Yeah, because the pain went away.
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The color came back.
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And do you attribute this, I mean, from where your head space is now?
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Do you attribute this to divine power, intervention of some sort?
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Or do you, I mean, I'm just curious.
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Yeah.
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No, absolutely.
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That's a great question.
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And I've thought about that a ton because as I've had to kind of change the context
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and reframe it, I really think that what allowed it was what we could call as a poetic term
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of faith, you know, and the power that belief can, I don't know how to say it, like shift
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reality is absolutely.
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No, I get it.
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I mean, there's validity to the power of prayer.
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And I think that it goes along with even like the, I don't think it's just prayer though.
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I think it's just energy being, you know, of course, it's all.
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Yeah, yeah.
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So it checks out, but wow, that's kind of, that's kind of fascinating.
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Do you remember what, like how the weight was like, oh, yeah, I remember it very well.
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Yeah.
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There was my dad had left a 45 pound, like barbell weight on the couch.
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And I discovered centrifugal force.
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I started pushing it into the cushion.
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And I was like, oh, if I get a rhythm, I can get it to bounce higher and higher.
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And so I was just playing with the rhythm of it.
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Meanwhile, it's slowly edging towards the end of the couch.
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Right.
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And then there was just a cement floor.
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It was in the basement.
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And the thing just came down and just boom, right on my toe, you know, got my toe right
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between the floor and the one.
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And your toes good now though.
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Oh, yeah.
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Everything was fine.
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It was just after my mom came down, you know, and she prayed for it.
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It was just, I have some arthritis in my toe under for your mom.
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She, you know, what's funny is, is she was a pastor in one of the biggest churches here
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in Columbus for a long time.
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Okay.
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And now she is a witch.
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Ah, I mean, it's a path.
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Yeah.
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Oh, yeah, yeah.
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Absolutely.
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And it's again, it's just discovering this relationship with energy or the universe or whatever
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you want to call it.
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Yeah.
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However, people want to have a relationship with it.
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And just finding what comes into agreement when it comes to language and kind of the
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shape, the face and the context.
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Right.
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Because it's all kind of the same idea, just wrapped in different packages.
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Right.
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Yeah.
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And same idea.
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And I think a lot of it is, you know, because ideas get into categories.
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And since it is such a like amorphous thing that it really is just like more of feeling rather
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than idea.
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Right.
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Right.
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So.
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Right.
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It's unfortunate that this feeling is often clouded by people's personal beliefs and personal
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things they're trying to layer on.
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What Jesus meant to say and so forth and so on.
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It was just a religion that you were involved in.
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It doesn't sound terribly strict, although you were at home school.
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Was it restrictive or was it?
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It was definitely conservative.
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Yes.
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You know, it was conservative.
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It was funny because my parents were pretty loose compared to a lot of some of the other
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families in the church.
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Right.
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I went to a private school for a short window of my life.
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And that was much more strict and conservative.
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But you know what?
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As I look back on all of it, I'm so, so grateful.
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I was raised in a fairly soft environment because I'm a very sensitive person.
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Right.
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And, you know, I can look back on that and be like, wow, if I was in just a rougher environment
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and less gentle, you know, situations of care and relationship and I probably would be
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a much more, I would be different.
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Yeah.
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In a way that I'm not.
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I'm not.
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Yeah.
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I'm extremely sensitive as well to a degree that I have learned to, as I've gotten older,
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like, except in kind of, in brace.
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But when I was younger, it was just kind of a mess because I'm just an open wound kind of
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in a lot of ways.
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And yeah, it's interesting that the, that the religious upbringing kind of gently helped
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you through that.
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Absolutely.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So how did like after, I mean, I got a point to this music star, I suppose, what does your
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music start?
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Totally.
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So my dad would play me records all the time, like I was saying.
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What kind of records?
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He was really into Prague, like Prague rock.
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Oh, really?
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Yeah.
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Absolutely.
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Yes.
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Oh, my gosh, close to the edges is one of my, it is an old faith.
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But anytime he would put on, he would put on, you know, some Prague.
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He also loved like Genesis and King Crimson, right?
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And he would play me, but then he would play me artists like Kraftwerk.
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And then he would play me.
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There was this Japanese modular synthesizer mastermind named Tomita.
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And he would play me anything that he would play me.
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So this is where Prague kind of plays into anything that is synthesizer.
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Anytime I heard synthesizers or electronic instruments, I would just feel this overwhelming
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sense of my body.
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Ever since I was very, very little.
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So when I was six years old, I already knew this, but I didn't know since there wasn't a
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lot of it.
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I didn't know how to point at it.
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Rock music was everywhere.
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Yeah.
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Sure, sure.
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And then this Christian artist named Joy Electric.
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Big fan, big fan.
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You know Joy and I.
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Oh, I was going to say, I was going to say because if you're in the city, you know,
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into electronic music, a lot of people discover him because he is a analog synthesizer,
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just genius.
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Oh, really?
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This man, I think at one point in time, I don't know if he still has them, had like a hundred
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analog synthesizers.
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He had like almost his own analogs at Cesar Lake Museum.
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And he would put out songs.
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There's a Christian radio station here in town called Radio U.
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Okay.
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They started, I think in '95, but in '96, I heard a song by this artist Joy Electric on
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the radio and it was like being struck by lightning.
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And I was like, this is exactly what I want to do with my life.
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I want to play the synthesizer.
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I want to work with sounds.
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I love sounds.
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Right, right, right.
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So my, my grandfather, that Christmas got me a little Cassio keyboard.
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Sure.
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I started piano lessons, you know, secondhand piano lessons from a woman at the church.
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Wonderful, wonderful lady.
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And I just started taking piano so that I could grow up.
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And first of all, find out where the hell I can find a synthesizer.
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Right, right, right.
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And then, you know, it just went from there and I got my first, I got like a recording software
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game when I was eight years old.
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And then my dad, my dad worked in tech.
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He was a 90 and he got me my first actual recording software program for the computer in,
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I think it was '99 or 2000, which one was it?
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It was called acid music.
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No, I don't remember the one.
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It was a fairly like underground.
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It was used by a lot of electronic music producers.
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Okay.
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And the company that made them, Sonic Foundry, had some really popular other programs,
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like SoundForge, that tons of artists.
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Honestly, yeah.
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To this day still used, which is cool.
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And then we got a corg synthesizer when I was 10 years old.
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And my brother and I, we would just, you know, I just, I loved abstract ambient instrumental
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stuff.
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And then I had a lot of that.
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And I would just make this abstract instrumental ambient stuff when I was really little.
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And then music for airports kind of thing.
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Totally.
18:25
Yeah, totally.
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Yeah, you know, that was another one that I would put on every now and then.
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And then when I was 11, I went to, as when I started my private school and I remember showing
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up with the tape of my original music and playing it for people on the bus and they're just
18:40
like, this is you?
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And I'm like, yeah, and they're like, what the hell is this?
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You know, because it's just this really low on their minds a little bit.
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Yeah, they're like, this is weird.
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I know.
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I was like, oh, I love it.
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You know?
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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So that was, that was the start of my life in music.
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But running concurrent, concurrently, it was my, my spiritual life, you know?
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So I had this example of seeing these people sit in a quiet space and listening.
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And so so often I would just sit in my room and meditate.
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Right.
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You know, I didn't know it was called meditation.
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That was a bad word back then, you know?
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Sure.
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But I would just sit and I would talk to God and would have just these really sweet, beautiful,
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really tuning into the subtleties moments.
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And then I started doing it while listening to music.
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And you know, I just started having these really, really profound, crazy, wild, you know,
19:45
supernatural experiences.
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And this is still Jesus based at this point.
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Yes.
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Okay.
19:52
Yeah.
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And what point does that shift into something other than Jesus?
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Or is it still, I don't know?
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Right.
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Right.
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That's a great question.
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I moved to California when I was 21.
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Okay.
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And I eventually officially kind of decided I was leaving the church when I was like 25.
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How'd you go to California?
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So I was doing music.
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It's funny.
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I was actually playing keyboard for a Christian rapper and simultaneous to playing with him,
20:18
his brother and his brothers at the time partner.
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They started a business for YouTubers.
20:26
Okay.
20:27
And they were working with all of the top YouTubers at the time and creating essentially like
20:31
a YouTube production management marketing conglomerate.
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And this is early YouTube.
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So very early YouTube.
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So this was 2010 when they were when that really started to get some traction.
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And then the rapper that I was playing with, he was like, Hey, I'm moving to California to
20:51
work with my brother to run the music department.
20:54
You know, so we're kind of done here.
20:56
And then after he moves, he hits me up and he's like, Hey, do you want to start writing
20:59
music for some of these YouTubers?
21:02
And I pitched a song and do you remember what it was?
21:05
Oh, yeah, I remember what it was.
21:07
So you're going to love this.
21:10
So I'm going to write a biography and I'm going to tell you the name and then I'm going
21:13
to tell you the stories.
21:14
And it's going to be called Ascentities Changed My Life.
21:20
So the reason I say that is there was a comedy band.
21:25
It was the number one music channel on YouTube.
21:28
Okay.
21:29
And it was this guy Ray William Johnson.
21:32
He was the number one YouTuber on YouTube at the time.
21:36
He was doing kind of an America's funny as home videos version on YouTube called equals
21:40
three.
21:41
And he had a cartoon band, kind of like the gorillas, you know, cartoon band, but it was doing
21:46
just kind of crass comedy.
21:49
Right.
21:50
Right.
21:51
And I got a call and it was like, Hey, do you want to write and produce a comedy song?
21:55
And I'm going to try to sell it to this guy, you know, to this YouTube channel.
22:00
Yeah.
22:01
And if they like it, you know, we'll pay.
22:03
Yeah.
22:04
So I wrote a song called TIGO Lbities.
22:06
You know, and it was just this full on electronic pop song.
22:11
The chorus is just saying TIGO Lbities over and over again.
22:14
And have you played it?
22:15
Have you played it since?
22:16
Have you just let that go?
22:17
I have not, I think you should pull that out of the sound.
22:19
Yeah, I just out of nowhere.
22:20
Yeah, not the first person to say that.
22:23
And so I, you know, I was 21 at the time and I was like, okay, these are middle school
22:29
boys that are watching these videos.
22:30
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
22:31
They love boobs.
22:32
Yeah.
22:33
So I was like, we're going to do this song.
22:34
So I wrote this song.
22:35
I sent it to them and apparently, you know, the guy who was listening to it, his brother
22:40
was in there.
22:41
I mean, his brother was just crying and laughing.
22:43
And they were like, okay, this is the one.
22:45
So they bought the song from me.
22:46
They recorded it.
22:48
They put it out and it blew up.
22:51
TIGO Lbities.
22:52
It was number one on iTunes.
22:53
Is it still out there?
22:54
Oh, yeah.
22:55
Oh wow.
22:56
I didn't really know.
22:57
And so that happened, you know, they were like, hey, good job.
23:01
And they were like, you're basically in the door now.
23:03
Do you want to do another one?
23:05
Right.
23:06
And so I was like, okay, if the demographic is young boys, they also love video games.
23:09
Yeah.
23:10
So I wrote a song about video games.
23:11
Send it to them.
23:12
They recorded it.
23:13
Put it out.
23:14
Did great.
23:15
Wow.
23:16
You know, and so they were like, cool.
23:17
We're going to give you a house in a music studio.
23:18
Come out to California.
23:19
Wow.
23:20
Yeah.
23:21
So I was like, I was like, I'm going to be a music producer.
23:23
I was like, I'm going to be a music producer.
23:24
I was like, I'm going to be a music producer.
23:25
I'm going to be a music producer.
23:26
I'm going to be a music producer.
23:27
I'm going to be a music producer.
23:28
I'm going to be a music producer.
23:29
I'm going to be a music producer.
23:30
I'm going to be a music producer.
23:31
I'm going to be a music producer.
23:32
I'm going to be a music producer.
23:33
I'm going to be a music producer.
23:34
I'm going to be a music producer.
23:35
I'm going to be a music producer.
23:36
I'm going to be a music producer.
23:37
I'm going to be a music producer.
23:38
I'm going to be a music producer.
23:39
I'm going to be a music producer.
23:40
I'm going to be a music producer.
23:54
I'm going to be a music producer.
23:55
I'm going to be a music producer.
23:56
I'm going to be a music producer.
23:57
I'm going to be a music producer.
23:58
I'm going to be a music producer.
23:59
I'm going to be a music producer.
24:00
I'm going to be a music producer.
24:01
I'm going to be a music producer.
24:02
I'm going to be a music producer.
24:03
I'm going to be a music producer.
24:04
I'm going to be a music producer.
24:05
I'm going to be a music producer.
24:06
I'm going to be a music producer.
24:07
I'm going to be a music producer.
24:08
I'm going to be a music producer.
24:09
I'm going to be a music producer.
24:10
I'm going to be a music producer.
24:11
I'm going to be a music producer.
24:12
I'm going to be a music producer.
24:13
I'm going to be a music producer.
24:14
I'm going to be a music producer.
24:15
I'm going to be a music producer.
24:16
I'm going to be a music producer.
24:17
I'm going to be a music producer.
24:18
I'm going to be a music producer.
24:19
I'm going to be a music producer.
24:20
I'm going to be a music producer.
24:21
I'm going to be a music producer.
24:22
I'm going to be a music producer.
24:23
I'm going to be a music producer.
24:24
I'm going to be a music producer.
24:25
I'm going to be a music producer.
24:26
I'm going to be a music producer.
24:27
I'm going to be a music producer.
24:28
I'm going to be a music producer.
24:29
No.
24:30
No.
24:31
But TiggleBitties didn't pay off them.
24:32
It's a...
24:33
Well, they...
24:34
They made...
24:35
They made...
24:36
I signed a contract without getting a lawyer.
24:37
I'll say that.
24:38
I'll say that.
24:38
Yes.
24:39
So I'm sure there's the biggest mistake, I think, because of this.
24:40
Yes.
24:41
I would have been making bank, but instead of...
24:42
Explatation.
24:43
I hear that's a big thing there in LA and in entertainment industry.
24:44
Oh, it's not just LA.
24:45
It's a...
24:46
It's a...
24:47
Sure.
24:48
Sure.
24:49
Yeah.
24:50
No.
24:51
It's a...
24:52
It's a...
24:53
Sure.
24:54
Sure.
24:55
Yeah.
24:56
No.
24:57
And honestly, as I look back at my life, I'm so glad that nothing I was working on then
25:01
worked out because...
25:02
Right.
25:03
You'd be making TiggleBitties the eighth version of it at this point.
25:06
Yeah, exactly.
25:07
Right before we left, we were working on TiggleBitties for Snoop Dogg.
25:10
Sure.
25:11
So did that ever happen?
25:12
Did Snoop Dogg ever record a version of TiggleBitties?
25:14
He was working...
25:15
We were working on one, but it never actually.
25:16
No.
25:17
No, that was a whole...
25:18
That was a whole story.
25:19
So the project, after I moved there lasted for about two years, and then there was an
25:23
intellectual property dispute.
25:24
Oh, yeah.
25:25
And everything shut down.
25:26
You mean Snoop Dogg?
25:27
I did, yes.
25:28
Oh, how's that?
25:29
It was funny.
25:30
He came into my studio briefly, and he's like, it was just this funny little interaction.
25:35
He's just like, what did you do, gentlemen?
25:38
And I turned around, I was like, making beats, and he goes, as you should be, and he just
25:41
dapped me up and like vibed for a second and walked out.
25:45
So...
25:46
Now he's still in cell phones or whatever.
25:48
Yeah, he's doing everything.
25:50
He's doing everything.
25:51
Yeah, he sure is.
25:52
He sure is turned into a savvy businessman, that Snoop Dogg.
25:54
Absolutely.
25:55
So he's been doing it for two years in LA, and then you come back to Ohio?
25:58
Yeah, after about two years, I, one of the other threads that runs into all of this and leads
26:04
to the soundbass is my mental health.
26:06
Okay.
26:07
You know, I was partying.
26:08
You were partying?
26:09
Partying?
26:10
Well, I started drinking a lot in LA.
26:13
Sure.
26:14
You know, I was never a drug person, right?
26:15
I was definitely a drinker.
26:16
Okay.
26:17
So I was drinking a lot while I was working, and just all through my life, I was...
26:25
I was a very melancholic person, you know?
26:30
And I just kind of have this thread of perpetual sadness, you know?
26:36
Uh-huh.
26:37
I can relate to that.
26:38
Yeah.
26:39
And it also promotes a deeply romantic quality that I really, I really totally relate to
26:44
that as well, yeah.
26:45
So I'm...
26:46
I really...
26:47
Oh, I couldn't imagine looking at the world through different eyes, you know?
26:51
Right.
26:52
But it's hard to carry.
26:53
It's heavy.
26:54
Yeah.
26:55
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
26:56
And I feel like tying into the alcohol, the alcohol I feel like with, especially with sensitive
27:00
people like ourselves, I think it really does tone down that sensitivity a little bit and
27:05
makes the world a little bit easier to function in.
27:07
Absolutely.
27:08
Yeah.
27:09
Yeah.
27:10
That was...
27:11
That was the allure, you know?
27:12
You know?
27:13
I'd be like, oh, oh, I'm so uptight.
27:15
And then after a few drinks, I'm just like, I'm enjoying this.
27:18
But then after a few more, it was like, I'm not enjoying this.
27:20
Right.
27:21
Because it's like anxiety, I feel like goes with the sensitivity in a way.
27:24
Exactly.
27:24
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
27:25
Exactly.
27:26
Yeah.
27:27
So that all kind of snowballed.
27:28
My job was changing a ton.
27:30
The project had fallen apart and I was dating somebody long distance in Ohio.
27:34
Okay.
27:35
And I was like, I'm going to move back to Ohio.
27:37
Take a break from music.
27:38
Figure out my relationship and get therapy.
27:42
Were you dating that person before you went to LA?
27:44
Yeah.
27:45
Okay.
27:46
Yeah.
27:47
So I moved home, started therapy, worked at a Starbucks, you know, to have a little break
27:53
from music.
27:54
It's like coffee.
27:55
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
27:56
Small indeed.
27:57
Small little indie coffee.
27:58
Yeah, yeah.
27:59
Yeah.
28:00
Yeah.
28:01
I, once I moved back here, I started getting hired to play at a bunch of churches around town.
28:05
Huh.
28:06
And was just playing keys and doing sound.
28:09
And I just, after being in an incredibly loving, secular environment, which is a funny word
28:17
to use.
28:19
But for me, it was different.
28:21
And just being like, wow, these are some of the most authentic, deeply truly loving people.
28:26
I've ever been around.
28:28
And there, there was no religious sense, you know.
28:32
Right.
28:33
There was, there was, there was a lot of curiosity.
28:35
And some of them had Christian background.
28:36
Some of them did have like Eastern religious, you know, backgrounds.
28:39
These are the musicians.
28:40
A lot of, a lot of the people I was around and worked with and just, you know, hanging out
28:44
with and just, it was, it was sweet.
28:48
And I was running into just, I was like, this is just, this just isn't, I felt like I was
28:56
looking through a people, you know, when I was, when I was looking at my relationship with
29:01
reality through the eyes of Christianity.
29:05
Oh, I see.
29:06
You know, it makes sense.
29:07
I was like, I was like, and, and that being said, you know, people can, can hear that and
29:12
have what kind of reaction to it because we all have our different ideas around what
29:16
the language is when I say Christianity, it can, it ties into what they think it is.
29:20
Sure.
29:21
But I'm talking about what I was raised with, of course, you know.
29:22
Yeah.
29:23
So I had never let my mind go beyond those borders, you know.
29:27
And so when I was 25, I took a step back and I was like, I want to look at the world and
29:34
to my relate to my beautiful, romantic, supernatural relationship.
29:39
Like I said, you know, having this experience when I was four.
29:42
Yeah.
29:43
And then tons and tons and tons of miraculous experiences after that all the time.
29:47
You know, I'll tell you some.
29:50
So you can kind of get a sense when I was 21 and I moved to LA.
29:55
I was there for a few months and luckily my house was right by my studio.
29:59
Okay.
30:00
But I was like, I want to venture further and I needed to get a car.
30:03
I didn't have a car and I was making much money.
30:06
So a friend of mine calls me one morning and she was just this, you know, very, you know,
30:12
bright, fun, loving person.
30:15
And she was like, Hey, Jesse, what can I pray for you today?
30:18
And I was like, I was like, you can pray that I get a free car.
30:21
She's like, okay, dear God, I pray that Jesse gets a cheap car.
30:25
And I was like, no, free.
30:26
I said free.
30:27
Like keyword here is free.
30:28
Yeah.
30:29
And she's like, okay, I pray you get a free car.
30:31
She hangs out about two hours later.
30:33
I get a phone call from somebody and they're like, Hey, Jess, I was just wondering, do you
30:38
want my car?
30:40
And it was immediately, I just knew it was the same to me.
30:43
So I said yes.
30:45
And there was a much longer version of that story that gets so crazy about how the miracle
30:53
of that car continues to just play on and happen and happen and happen and give me a little
30:57
more.
30:58
Okay.
30:59
So, so she parks it about what kind of car is this?
31:02
Okay.
31:03
This is the best part.
31:04
Okay.
31:05
She brings me the keys.
31:06
Like I said, I live about three blocks from where my studio is.
31:09
She brings me the key.
31:10
She gets it tuned up a little bit.
31:12
She brings me the key.
31:13
And I'm like, oh, thank you.
31:14
She's like, I parked it on the street next to the studio.
31:17
And I walk out.
31:18
And there it is.
31:19
It's a little purple beat to shit Volkswagen bug.
31:23
And I was like, yes, I was like, look at my little baby.
31:27
You know, it's just, it's, I walk up to it.
31:29
I look in the, the, in the window and it looks like a bear had been set loose.
31:34
I mean, this thing is torn to shreds.
31:36
Well, it's free.
31:38
And I did, it's funny because I didn't look at it and go, ugh, I looked at it and I was
31:41
like, this is my miracle.
31:43
Right.
31:44
This right here is my answered prayer.
31:45
I wonder if she'd specified that a car head like if it had the nice interior or a free
31:48
car with a nice interior if it would have been, you know, right, right, right, right,
31:52
taking notes.
31:53
Right.
31:54
Okay.
31:55
Next time, you know, but I just, I, all I saw was my miracle.
31:57
I was like, this is beautiful.
31:58
So I'm like, kiss in it.
31:59
And I'm like, yes, this is amazing.
32:01
So fast forward about a year and a half later, I'm getting ready to move.
32:06
I was like, I got to move back to one, you know.
32:08
So kind of where we are in the story.
32:10
Right.
32:11
And I was like, oh, I've got this car.
32:13
I've got to get rid of it.
32:14
Shoot.
32:15
Right after I decide that, they're street sweeping on either side, you know, Tuesday,
32:20
Kent Park there, Wednesday, Kent Park on the other side, whatever.
32:23
I've been, so I wake up at, you know, street sweeping starts at 10.
32:27
I wake up at 10, 10 and I'm like, so out of a bitch, you know, and in my boxers, I just
32:33
run outside and I'm parked a block away.
32:37
So I'm like running around the block in my boxes and sure enough, I see the, you know,
32:42
the parking meter, the meter made.
32:44
Not the best name, but I walk up and they're giving me a ticket and the guy's like, oh, is
32:49
this your car?
32:50
And I'm like, yeah, he's like, I'm so sorry.
32:52
And I'm like, dude, you're just doing your job.
32:53
I slept in.
32:54
It's all good.
32:55
And he just, he's like, man, I've already put it in the system.
32:57
I'm so sorry.
32:58
And he keeps writing.
32:59
And then he looks at me and he goes, can I buy your car?
33:03
And I was like, I literally had just decided to move and I needed to get rid of the car.
33:09
That was like the first thing on my plate.
33:11
And he's just, this guy's just writing my ticket and then he's like, can I buy your car?
33:15
And I was like, kismet.
33:16
Yeah.
33:17
It was amazing.
33:18
So, so, you know, I was like, yeah, I'm moving in a week.
33:22
So he met me at my moving truck a week later and just took the car off my knee.
33:25
Did he pay the ticket?
33:26
Well, you paid me 700 bucks, which was great for free car.
33:31
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I helped cover gas for the way home.
33:33
Right.
33:34
So insane.
33:35
So, things like that, I had another experience where I was in Iceland and I was performing
33:41
at a music festival when I was 18.
33:44
And we were, the bands were all staying in a school that was near the festival grounds.
33:50
They basically just put mattresses and stuff in different school rooms for the bands.
33:54
So a group of kids broke into our room, stole our money.
33:59
And since it was like a fairly small music festival, fairly tight community word got out.
34:05
And this woman comes up to us and she's like, hey, you know, we heard you guys got robbed.
34:09
Well, this was a Christian music festival because we were a little Christian electronic band.
34:12
Right.
34:13
What was the band called?
34:14
It was called Fantastic.
34:15
Okay, that's, that's fine.
34:16
Yeah.
34:17
I was thinking it'd be some sort of, you know, they would question band in.
34:20
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
34:22
So this woman comes up to us and she's like, hey, can I pray for you guys?
34:26
We were like, sure.
34:27
Sure.
34:28
Why not?
34:29
We were like, I'm standing there and she's like, I pray that you get your money back.
34:31
And we were like, thank you.
34:33
And then she's like, never mind.
34:35
I pray you get twice your money back.
34:36
And we were like, oh, I want to go for three.
34:39
Yeah.
34:40
So we were like, oh, thank you.
34:44
You know, and she leaves and we go back to our room.
34:47
And I never forget this moment.
34:48
My band mates pacing around, like flipping a switch plate or something.
34:53
I don't know.
34:54
He always had a pocket knife.
34:55
And I was laying down on a mattress.
34:57
And then this woman walks into the room carrying a box, a different woman.
35:00
And she's like, hey, I'm from the church next door.
35:03
And we found out that you guys got robbed.
35:05
So we took tides and offerings and we are going to give them to you.
35:09
So here you go.
35:10
And we counted out and it was two with the dollar twice.
35:14
What was stolen from us?
35:15
And I was just, it was just these, so these little answered prayer, little miracle things
35:19
like that all through my life just kept happening.
35:22
You know, I kind of love this because you get, it's so often in this world that Christianity
35:26
is given this, you know, a bad rap, you know.
35:29
Of course.
35:30
And it's nice to hear stories like this that are like, you know, positive stories about Christianity
35:37
about, you know, because I think a lot of the times the stories we hear are people, you
35:40
know, anti-avortion, so forth and so on and on.
35:42
Absolutely.
35:43
So yeah, that's wonderful.
35:45
Yeah.
35:46
Yeah, for sure.
35:47
You know, there are so many things that I loved about Christianity.
35:50
Yeah.
35:51
It's rare to find in a culture that celebrates individualism, a group of people that
35:56
collectively believe in something bigger than themselves, you know?
35:59
Yeah.
36:00
So for there to be a kind of communal kind of understanding and giving and centering around
36:08
something that is outside of self, it allowed for such a sweet sense of trust in community.
36:16
Yeah.
36:17
That was so rich and so wonderful and rare.
36:20
Exactly.
36:21
It's incredibly rare.
36:22
And once I left the church, that was probably the hardest part and has been the hardest part.
36:25
Right.
36:26
Because I feel like community is the main thing we've left in our society and that's something
36:30
that I miss.
36:31
You know, I mean, that's, yeah.
36:32
Yeah.
36:33
And that was one of the big motivators for me doing the home sounds, you know?
36:36
Well done.
36:37
Yeah.
36:38
So, you know, moving on though, I had these amazingly rich, beautiful experiences with the
36:48
listener, you know, whatever you want to call it with God, you know, the whatever it
36:53
was.
36:54
What did you call it at the time where you still?
36:55
At those points in time, at those points in time, I was still a Christian.
36:58
So I equated it to the God of the Bible, you know?
37:02
But then when I was 25 and I left the church, I started to kind of divorce a lot of that
37:07
language and a lot of that thinking and it was very, very hard and very, very sad because
37:12
it was such a tangible romantic relationship.
37:14
It was your whole life.
37:15
It was, and it was my whole life, you know, and there was a lot in that, you know?
37:21
So I had to just let go and I, but it also led into just like, kid in the candy store.
37:29
I was, oh my God.
37:30
Let's go get, let's go check out Buddhism.
37:32
Let's go, yeah, Hinduism.
37:34
Sure.
37:35
Let's get into Jainism.
37:36
Let's look at esoteric practices.
37:38
Let's get into various, you know, like it's good into paganism.
37:41
Right.
37:42
Right.
37:43
Let's go explore, you know, different indigenous beliefs and people in South America.
37:46
And you know, just all over the place, see what everybody, you know?
37:49
It's all the same kind of, the same ideas really just told differently in a lot of ways in
37:54
my experience.
37:55
Totally.
37:56
And one of the things that really blew the lid off for me out the gate was Joseph Campbell.
38:02
You know, the heroes journey, the hero of it with a thousand faces, which is interesting
38:07
because I went to film school and that's the same thing that they teach you in film school.
38:10
Of course.
38:11
Of course.
38:12
Of course, the hero's journey because it's all this mythical, you know?
38:14
Yeah.
38:15
That really was born out of Joseph Campbell and George Lucas with Star Wars, you know,
38:20
consulted with Joseph Campbell and he was like, here's the, here's essentially the plot,
38:24
you know, here's the whole story.
38:25
Right.
38:26
But George Lucas stole from Dune from George Herbert, like that whole idea was.
38:29
Oh, yeah.
38:30
Yeah.
38:31
It's kind of down that road, but still, yeah, absolutely.
38:33
Oh man, dude.
38:34
It's so good.
38:35
Yeah, the new movies were amazing.
38:36
I was like surprised.
38:37
Yeah.
38:38
Yeah.
38:39
Beautiful.
38:40
So, you know, moving, moving into the space of what was the thing sorry to interrupt?
38:44
Well, the thing that got you out of the church.
38:47
It was really just a lot, well, it was a lot over time.
38:50
It was being involved in the business of church for a long time, being behind the scenes
38:54
and just seeing how gnarly it was.
38:56
Yeah.
38:57
And then a lot of the churches that started to hire me, I mean, just were all about numbers
39:03
and money.
39:04
Yeah.
39:05
I was just like, yeah, I was like, this is boring and gross.
39:08
And, you know, and not it was, it was very unattractive.
39:13
It was, it was almost to be the poor instead of building a new church.
39:17
It was, yeah.
39:18
Yeah.
39:19
Yeah.
39:20
One of the churches I played at, and this was one of my last services I ever played at.
39:22
They were like, we're, we're starting a fundraiser.
39:25
We need to raise $22 million for our new campus.
39:29
Right.
39:30
Right.
39:31
And, and it's crazy because they did and now they're one of the largest churches in Columbus
39:35
with multiple, multiple, multiple branches.
39:37
Is it Duel?
39:38
No, no, no.
39:39
I was actually just funny because that was formal EZ and us.
39:41
Yeah, I know.
39:42
I have some friends who were, yeah.
39:44
I got lots of, lots of history with some good stories there.
39:47
Yeah, yeah.
39:48
Yeah.
39:49
Yeah.
39:50
Yeah.
39:51
Yeah.
39:52
And I went to the, the worship pastor at the church that I'm, that I'm talking about.
39:57
And I pulled him aside.
39:58
I was like, hey, man, I'm really struggling with drinking.
40:01
And he was like, oh, man, I'm so sorry to hear that man and pray for me and all that.
40:06
And the next week he showed up and he gave me a handle of whiskey.
40:09
And it was literally just like, it was probably, it was one of the most offensive
40:12
heartbreaking, dismay, and impactful things.
40:14
Right.
40:15
I was just like, all right.
40:17
So shortly after that, I was like, okay, I'm going to go.
40:20
Why would, wait, let me get out of here.
40:22
Did he say anything about, like, did he even address the fact that you just talked to him
40:26
about having an issue with alcohol?
40:27
Or what was the, what he said when he handed it to me was like, I know you like to drink
40:31
bud and he handed it to me.
40:33
Wow.
40:34
It was crazy.
40:35
Just like Jesus intended, I think it was, it was, it was so much generous.
40:40
It was one of the things that I was like, this is funny.
40:42
It was also terrible whiskey.
40:43
So I was like, man.
40:44
Right.
40:45
Like bottom shelf whiskey.
40:46
If you're a whiskey, at least.
40:47
Yeah.
40:48
So as I kind of started to kind of move away from that and explore all these other, you know,
40:56
really what for the first time we're allowed to be incredibly beautiful.
41:01
All of these new, new religions, myths, philosophy, you know, so many things.
41:08
My mind had just been kind of closed off to, you know, which was a bummer because I love
41:18
stories.
41:19
Yeah.
41:20
I'm a storyteller.
41:21
And I was like, oh, this, this is good stuff.
41:23
I was like, this is really great.
41:25
Right.
41:26
Right.
41:27
Right.
41:28
And, you know, also, so running through with that, having this really rich spiritual life,
41:33
of opening it up to a new interpretations, a new context, new ideas, new sensations, new
41:42
practices.
41:43
I also am still working professionally in music, you know.
41:48
And I went to my first sound bath shortly after that in California.
41:55
Okay.
41:56
And I went in there and I laid down and I was like, oh, this is, this is amazing.
42:01
And also like, because nobody, I, the person didn't talk about it being a musical experience.
42:06
They were just like, this is, you know, and there was a lot of the standard language
42:09
language.
42:10
Yeah.
42:11
And I'm laying there and I'm having this powerful experience, you know, very much going
42:16
to kind of a theta brain state.
42:17
I'm having a wake and, you know, time disappears and I'm deep inside my consciousness.
42:22
And I come out of that and I was like, that was all just a fundamental pad.
42:28
I was like, you could add vocals, you could add strings, you could write, and I was like,
42:33
you could do so much.
42:34
So I had that idea just planted in my mind.
42:38
Yeah.
42:39
I get that.
42:40
It's like that I think is what was actually part of the profound.
42:43
I mean, it was the whole, the whole environment of that church is kind of amazing number one.
42:47
But like that you made it into a concert in a way.
42:52
Totally.
42:53
Yeah.
42:54
Totally.
42:55
Yeah.
42:56
Yeah.
42:57
Doing that or is this well, so, so what was fun was, so I guess like kind of fast forwarding
43:03
a little bit.
43:04
I started to get more into kind of esoteric practice, you know, and started doing a lot
43:13
of stuff around the full moon simultaneously though.
43:16
I was doing sound journeys where I like, I would take, you know, I would take my mattress.
43:22
I would put it on the middle of the floor.
43:23
I would take huge speakers, push them up against the mattress.
43:26
I would get a fundamental frequency and I would kind of have my own personal ritual that
43:32
I would go through and then I would lay down and I would just blast off, you know, I would
43:39
and this was all without drugs.
43:40
Right.
43:41
No drugs.
43:42
No drugs for you.
43:43
Yeah.
43:44
Yeah.
43:45
So I would just lay down on my mattress and I would have these speakers just blasting a tone
43:47
and I would just take off, you know, and I would just have these really, really crazy,
43:53
you know, astral projection adjacent kind of experiences.
43:57
And I was doing that a lot and it was, it was, you know, within the same family as my meditation,
44:04
you know, and so much of that.
44:06
So going kind of where the mental health stuff ties in was I quit drinking for the first
44:12
time when I was 26.
44:14
Okay.
44:15
I started getting really into nutrition and physical wellness.
44:18
And then once I kind of checked off the body piece, it was time to address a lot of the mind
44:22
piece.
44:23
Yeah.
44:24
So I started to get into like regimented practices of meditation, you know, exploring various
44:29
practices of meditation, mindfulness, vipassana, and you know, things like that.
44:35
And that led into a deeper and kind of different, more mature relationship with stillness and
44:46
silence, you know.
44:47
And then I started using, and then at night, I would use these repetitive sound loops to
44:54
put me into a hypnosis to journey, you know.
44:58
Right.
44:59
So, you know, again, the sound bath sound journey kind of stuff.
45:01
So I had all of these things going on.
45:05
And fast forward, were you dating anybody while you're doing all these like in there, like
45:11
in your relationship with sleep.
45:12
Yeah.
45:13
Yeah.
45:14
Yeah.
45:15
They're sleeping meanwhile, like, I'm on a different plan.
45:19
Right, right, right.
45:20
I'm like, you're never going to guess what this alien spirit thing said to me.
45:23
It usually happens to me after much of it, but if you can do it with music, it's great.
45:28
Right.
45:29
Yeah.
45:30
It's funny.
45:33
So when I, gosh, I was getting ready to move back to California.
45:39
Okay.
45:40
And, man, I, gosh, there were a few things that happened kind of all at once.
45:47
One was about my first singing bowl set, because I was like, oh, it's time to start experimenting
45:53
with this.
45:54
Yeah.
45:55
And I was like, but if I'm going to buy this bowl set, I have to do a sound bath.
45:56
So I bought the bowl set kind of on a leap of faith.
45:59
And then two days later, I got a phone call.
46:01
And it was like, hey, Red Bull needs a sound bath.
46:03
Do you do sound baths?
46:04
And I was like, yes.
46:06
Red Bull.
46:07
Yeah.
46:08
Wow.
46:09
So with Red Bull sound bath, it doesn't seem to.
46:12
It's interesting.
46:13
It was like a regional corporate event.
46:16
Interesting.
46:17
So I was like, cool.
46:20
And I, with that, got to bring what I had wanted to bring to sound baths that I had never
46:27
seen or experienced before.
46:28
So it was like, I had acoustic guitar, I had piano, I had all these pads, I had all these
46:32
rings and major sounds.
46:33
And, you know, on the fly kind of did it all.
46:35
But it's still just you at this point.
46:37
Okay.
46:38
Yeah.
46:39
And then there was an event space that was being held by a development company here in
46:44
town.
46:45
And they were like, hey, you know, we've got this space for a year.
46:48
We're going to do some fun events yet over the next year.
46:52
And then we're going to build an apartment building here.
46:55
So a friend of mine was responsible for booking those events.
46:59
So she brought me into the space and she was like, hey, I've got this space.
47:02
You do events.
47:03
What would you do here?
47:04
And I was immediately just like, I want to do one of my private.
47:09
Full Moon ceremonies here.
47:11
You know, she's like, cool, do it.
47:14
She was like, whatever.
47:15
Sure.
47:16
So the next full moon was the, I think it was July 7th, 2022.
47:21
Okay.
47:22
And it was a giant old car showroom.
47:26
Huge, huge cement.
47:28
Right.
47:29
Right.
47:30
I mean, the acoustics in there were so live.
47:32
Yeah.
47:33
I dropped my car keys in there one time and the sound just went.
47:39
And I was like, oh, a singing bowl in here would be crazy.
47:42
I'll never forget bringing it in there for the first time and starting to play it in the
47:45
whole room.
47:46
Just amplify.
47:47
It's just captures it.
47:49
It was unbelievable to this day.
47:51
My favorite space to do sound.
47:52
It's so crazy.
47:53
So I have a singing bowl and my cousin was over and I mentioned that I had a singing bowl.
47:58
He's like, what's that?
47:59
So I pulled this thing out and I start to get a play the thing.
48:01
Yeah.
48:02
And his mind like was blown.
48:04
He was like, he was like, bro, the day after he actually texted me and said, I think
48:08
that singing bowl did something to him.
48:10
And I'm like, yeah, dude, it does something.
48:12
Because the sound feels like it comes from everywhere.
48:16
It's such an interesting.
48:17
Yes.
48:18
You know, and you can almost feel the waves of sound coming off of the thing.
48:21
You totally can't.
48:22
Yeah.
48:23
It's really interesting.
48:24
Yeah.
48:25
Absolutely.
48:26
You know, it's a circular idiophone.
48:27
Right.
48:28
So it's like, it's got this acoustic property that is so three-dimensional.
48:33
And when you play them, it's kind of interesting because you can kind of feel one with the bowl
48:37
at a certain point.
48:38
Absolutely.
48:39
You know what I mean?
48:40
Like you get the, yeah.
48:41
Yeah.
48:42
Yeah.
48:43
I totally get what you're saying.
48:44
Yeah.
48:45
Yeah.
48:46
Yeah.
48:47
So, you know, she agrees to let me do this event.
48:48
And I go to, I had been playing at a kind of a, I had been playing piano at a spa in town.
48:55
Okay.
48:56
And there was a woman who worked there who had a set of singing bowls.
48:59
And I was like, hey, you know, are you singing bowls in the same tuning as mine?
49:03
She was like, yes, they are.
49:05
And I was like, do you want to do a sound bath together?
49:06
She was like, absolutely.
49:07
And I was like, great, because I need somebody to play bowls while I play piano.
49:10
Right.
49:11
She was like, cool.
49:12
So, I put together essentially the first ever, what would become a home.
49:18
Pretty home bath.
49:19
Yeah.
49:20
And I've just, I've got piano.
49:21
I've got these kind of nature sounds.
49:23
We've got our singing bowls.
49:24
We've got a few other instruments.
49:26
And then, you know, we put, we put everything up on event bright and it sells out.
49:32
And it was just full.
49:33
And I was like, whoa.
49:35
I was like, I'm going to be a little bit more comfortable with the sound bath.
49:39
And I was like, I'm going to be a little bit more comfortable with the sound bath.
49:42
And I was like, I'm going to be a little bit more comfortable with the sound bath.
49:45
And I was like, I'm going to be a little bit more comfortable with the sound bath.
49:49
And I was like, I'm going to be a little bit more comfortable with the sound bath.
49:52
And I was like, I'm going to be a little bit more comfortable with the sound bath.
49:56
And I was like, I'm going to be a little bit more comfortable with the sound bath.
50:00
And I was like, I'm going to be a little bit more comfortable with the sound bath.
50:04
And I was like, quiet.
50:05
We even went and asked them to turn off their fans.
50:07
Sir, are you going to buy something?
50:09
You literally exactly that.
50:11
You know, and I was just like, oh my gosh, we found the parent.
50:14
We both started crying because it was just like this beautiful combination of sex.
50:17
Right.
50:18
We put so much time and patience and intention into picking the witch times that we use at the end of the sound baths.
50:23
Yeah.
50:24
And then, you know, I was like, okay, these are in a different tuning.
50:26
So it's going to actually, it's sharper, which will wake people up a little bit.
50:30
And it's in F major, which is where the heart is.
50:33
You know, just a half step from what's considered the happiest chord in the world.
50:37
Right.
50:38
It sounds like this is perfect.
50:39
What is the happiest chord in the world?
50:40
They say it's F sharp major.
50:42
So we do the sound bath.
50:49
And the response was wonderful.
50:51
It was beautiful.
50:52
You know, I was so nervous.
50:53
We were both very nervous.
50:54
Sure.
50:55
You know, I was just like, you know, I've performed tons in my life.
50:57
But this is a different level and different type of presence.
51:02
And responsibility and sensitivity.
51:04
Right.
51:05
And then I was like, well, let's do it again.
51:09
So we did the next full moon, okay, filled up.
51:13
And then I was like, let's start doing the new moon too.
51:16
That one filled up.
51:17
Sure.
51:18
It was just like, and every single sound bath was connecting me to just all these new people in town.
51:25
Oh, maybe I'll want to stay here.
51:27
Like, I'm making all these new friends.
51:29
Like this community that you didn't even know was there is suddenly appearing in your.
51:33
Yeah, just and and also so many people were coming there and making friends.
51:36
Right.
51:37
And I was like, oh, man, this is this is what I wanted.
51:40
Right.
51:41
And I got I was also really into building the stations that were there.
51:45
So it started off with just I had, you know, made a bunch of fortune cookie fortunes that were, you know, things for my journals and different quotes.
51:52
And then I was like, we're going to put up, you know, these cards.
51:55
And I was like, oh, let's add more and more and more and more to where we had a ton of things.
51:59
Yeah, you made it a whole experience.
52:01
It's really amazing.
52:02
It's really fun.
52:03
Yeah.
52:04
So as basically any any any of the ticket money that came in went right back into just like improving the experiences.
52:10
Like, let's get candles.
52:11
Let's get, you know, more instruments.
52:13
Yeah.
52:14
Let's get more musicians.
52:15
Let's get, you know, it's just it just I hadn't been that in love in a long time.
52:20
Huh.
52:21
Well, I was because this experience was based on my safe place as a child.
52:27
Right.
52:28
Right.
52:29
Right.
52:30
The little four or five year old me sitting in my room quietly just listening.
52:34
This was that.
52:35
And then you're like, this is your aha moment.
52:38
Like, oh, yeah.
52:39
Yeah.
52:40
Yeah.
52:41
Yeah.
52:42
Yeah.
52:43
Yeah.
52:44
The Japanese.
52:45
This is the thing that I've been looking for.
52:46
And now, yeah.
52:47
I was in a video of me when I was 12 with my brother and we had an ambient band when we were in middle school.
52:55
Oh, it was a spankle.
52:56
We were called collected fictions.
52:57
Okay.
52:58
That's good.
52:59
Um, the waiting for a bad band name is what I'm saying.
53:01
Yeah.
53:02
Right.
53:03
So, um, in this video, we found it so funny.
53:06
I'm sitting there and he's playing ambient guitar and I'm playing ocean sounds.
53:10
Okay.
53:11
And then I switched and I'm playing bird sound.
53:12
Sure.
53:13
And then I'm playing rain sounds.
53:14
And I was like, I'm still doing that.
53:16
Yeah.
53:17
No.
53:18
Just took me a while from here to there.
53:20
To there.
53:21
Yeah.
53:22
Yeah.
53:23
And it just kept going.
53:24
And, um, oh, man, it was just, it was just, we, home was so, I want to say, I want to say, so
53:35
divinely carried.
53:36
There was so many beautiful people that showed up.
53:39
There were so many things that just happened right at the right time to allow it to continue to move forward.
53:45
And it was so beautiful and so special.
53:48
No, it's, it's totally true.
53:50
For me, even like just discovering it and realizing this whole, there's side of Columbus.
53:54
And then, yeah, you created something like magical there and, uh, yeah, well done, sir.
53:58
Well done.
53:59
Thank you.
54:00
Thank you.
54:01
I appreciate it.
54:02
You know, I gave it my entire, my body heart soul, but isn't it great when you find something
54:10
that you want to give that to?
54:11
Yeah.
54:12
And that's what I was saying.
54:13
And the only way I could do that was by how in love with it I was.
54:16
Right.
54:17
I was like, this is so, you know, people say, say a line, you know, but I was just like, this is so me.
54:25
Like, I was born for this.
54:26
And I think people, I think that was part of the vibe is that people could feel it, you know, good.
54:30
That was just a part.
54:31
The energy in those spaces was just, it was, it was something else.
54:35
Yeah.
54:36
It was good stuff.
54:37
Thank you.
54:38
You moved to the other church and then you did that for a couple of years to the church space.
54:43
We, so we were in gravity for a while.
54:44
And then they were like, we're going to break ground.
54:46
So you got to get out of here.
54:47
Right.
54:48
And then we moved over to the municipal light plant, which is like cruise stadium.
54:53
It's where the yellow cruise smokestack is.
54:54
Oh, okay.
54:55
So that building, it was the first power plant.
54:58
I'm pretty sure it was the first power plant in Columbus, turned into a wedding venue office
55:03
space.
55:04
And we were in the MLP for about a year and then Cameron, I believe it was Cameron Mitchell
55:10
came in and took over the building.
55:11
Oh, of course.
55:12
And they were like, it's going to be $25,000 to do an event here on the weekend.
55:23
Wow.
55:24
Cameron Mitchell and Lada Soundbath guy.
55:26
We've learned that.
55:27
You know, well, you know, I just, I can appreciate a business model.
55:34
That is not emotional.
55:35
Yes.
55:36
I hope because I'm surrounded by a lot of emotional business.
55:39
Oh, I understand.
55:40
And it's hard.
55:41
And it's hard because yeah, there's a lot of feeling there.
55:44
And I'm like, if they could just show up and be like, hey, love what you're doing, but it's
55:46
going to be $25,000.
55:47
I'm like, you know, right.
55:48
Good for you.
55:49
Right.
55:50
Then the sanctuary, which is where we were for about a year and a half, which is where you
55:55
came to church over there on Neil.
55:58
Yeah, that we were just like, okay, we're going to make this work.
56:01
It's a cool space.
56:02
It was a really cool space.
56:03
You know, parking was a little tough.
56:05
True.
56:06
But a lot of growth and a lot of great stuff happened in there.
56:10
Yeah.
56:11
So, yeah.
56:12
Yeah.
56:13
Yeah.
56:14
And so you did it for a two and a half or a year and a half there and then you started
56:18
doing it.
56:19
So you were doing the caves and the O'Lentangie caverns or something.
56:21
Was that?
56:22
Yeah.
56:23
So kind of, we always had the recurring full moon, new moon, we're solstice, you know, some
56:27
or solstice, the equinox events going on.
56:30
And we started doing a ton of stuff outside of that.
56:33
Actually, we have practitioners in different states.
56:36
We do rehab centers.
56:38
We do corporate stuff.
56:39
We do private stuff.
56:40
We do rec centers.
56:42
And this is all started with home and then just kind of grew.
56:46
It all grew from there.
56:47
Yeah.
56:48
And kind of going back to something you said earlier, it was like, has anybody done this
56:51
before?
56:52
And I hadn't seen the kind of concert style sound back before.
56:58
But I knew that it was coming.
57:00
I was like, it's too obvious.
57:02
It's too obvious.
57:03
I'm just wondering what's going on with that way now.
57:04
Yeah, totally.
57:05
And sure enough, now I mean, that's most of what I'm seeing out.
57:10
Like there's all these large events that look a lot like home.
57:13
Right.
57:14
And I think it's great.
57:15
Sure.
57:16
I don't feel possessive whatsoever about that.
57:21
Because how can you be because you can't, you can't copyright what that is.
57:25
Right.
57:26
You can't own that, right?
57:28
Yeah.
57:29
And with that, it was never a personal representation showing up in home was always this place of service
57:38
and of love.
57:39
Right.
57:40
And it was my playground.
57:41
I was like, I get to have fun here.
57:43
Yeah.
57:44
I was like, I love getting to show up and do these experiences.
57:47
It's just as satisfying and opening and healing and wonderful for me as it is for some of the
57:53
people that would show up and use the space.
57:55
Yeah.
57:56
You know, however they needed it.
57:57
And it was never about trying to sell something about my name on it, you know, which was so
58:03
relieving for me as an exhausted artist.
58:07
Right.
58:08
You know, I was like, Oh, God.
58:09
I think I'm not trying to be like, Hey, go, go stream me online and, you know, buy my
58:14
t-shirt.
58:15
Yeah.
58:16
So it's a complicated thing too, because you're doing what you love, but you also do want to
58:19
make money.
58:20
You also want to live.
58:21
Totally.
58:22
I mean, so it's a complicated, I guess that probably had to be a complicated dynamic in
58:26
that sense is like how much money should I make from this?
58:29
Absolutely.
58:30
Yeah.
58:31
Yeah.
58:32
For sure.
58:33
Yeah.
58:34
That was, I mean, that was definitely another whole part of it.
58:35
Again, I was still working through a lot of that period.
58:39
Okay.
58:40
You know, I was doing a lot of freelance music and freelance composition.
58:44
And I was a product photographer for Dungeons and Dragons dice.
58:48
Sure.
58:49
Why not?
58:50
You know, I've had as an interesting set of odd jobs.
58:54
How do you get to be a photographer of Dungeons and Dragons dice?
58:59
So I was the music director for a video game studio for a while.
59:02
Okay.
59:03
And there was a, I believe he was the intern CEO and he left the company and was working for
59:11
a toy company and they specifically made dice.
59:15
And he was like, he do photos and I was like, yeah, he's like, you played Dungeons and Dragons.
59:19
I was like, yes, he's like, I'm going to send you a bunch of dice.
59:21
I was like, okay.
59:22
As if playing Dungeons and Dragons makes you qualify to take pictures of the dice.
59:26
Yeah.
59:27
Yeah.
59:28
You know, he just, he just, he asked if I could and I had a, I actually had a photo suite at my
59:33
house.
59:34
Okay.
59:35
So I did that for a while.
59:36
Shout the hell out of those dice.
59:37
Yeah.
59:38
Yeah.
59:39
It was cool because I mean, they were like, they're cool looking dice.
59:40
Really, you really wild.
59:42
You know, I mean, just the dice with all the like 20-sided dice are cool looking.
59:46
Yep.
59:47
Yep.
59:48
All the different things.
59:49
Yeah.
59:50
And you know, kind of the, getting into kind of the business of, of what does this look
59:55
like, you know, functioning in this holistic world.
59:58
And then I had, I had voices coming at me from so many different directions.
1:00:02
Sure.
1:00:03
You know, I had some people, some people saying like, you got to do everything for free.
1:00:06
And this is actually hilarious.
1:00:07
The first home sound bath, well, before it was home, that very first sound bath.
1:00:10
Yeah.
1:00:11
I went to the person who was responsible for the venue and we sat down and I was like,
1:00:15
I want this event to be free.
1:00:17
And she was like, she's like, babe, I love your heart.
1:00:23
But if you do this for free, you will never do another one ever again.
1:00:28
And I was like, okay, there's so many kind of mechanisms there that she was referring to.
1:00:34
One is if you make a free event, people will register and because they registered for free,
1:00:38
they won't value it.
1:00:39
They won't show up.
1:00:40
They won't show up.
1:00:41
Yes.
1:00:42
So you have a bunch of empty spots, but you will have a full booking.
1:00:43
Yeah.
1:00:44
And the thing is there's kind of a broken relationship there with energy exchange.
1:00:48
What is your time worth?
1:00:50
You know, people being like, hey, I love this act of service.
1:00:53
You want to be an act of giving.
1:00:55
But you are also giving, not just your service, you're giving your time.
1:00:59
And that needs to be worth something.
1:01:01
Right.
1:01:02
So she was just kind of like, you know, don't make it free.
1:01:04
You don't have to make it expensive.
1:01:05
Yeah.
1:01:06
So I think we need that person in our lives to tell us.
1:01:09
100%.
1:01:10
Yeah.
1:01:11
Absolutely.
1:01:12
And through doing this and, you know, working with different things, there's lots of different
1:01:16
scales.
1:01:17
You know, if a huge, you know, multi, multi, multi million dollar corporate company comes
1:01:22
to us and they're like, come to a sound bath for us.
1:01:24
It's like, we have a, we have a pricing for that.
1:01:26
Okay.
1:01:27
If a, if a community center wants us to come and do something for the community, that's
1:01:30
going to be way different.
1:01:32
Sure.
1:01:33
You know, sure.
1:01:34
And you can use the big ones to fund the small ones.
1:01:36
Exactly.
1:01:37
It's that's always kind of been the idea with when I first got into it.
1:01:40
I was like, the only way this is going to work is.
1:01:42
By providing enough blood to the service through the commodity.
1:01:47
Yeah.
1:01:48
If that makes sense.
1:01:49
Yeah.
1:01:50
You know, so it is service in that kind of environment, but it is kind of this commodified
1:01:54
fun thing.
1:01:55
Right.
1:01:56
So it's like, okay, the commodity will pay for the service.
1:01:58
Yeah.
1:01:59
Yeah.
1:02:00
So kind of balancing that in there and then just having this, this scale of accessibility.
1:02:05
When home first started out, there were all these things on the event break that were
1:02:09
like if you're a yoga teacher, you can come for free for the first time.
1:02:13
If you need help, use this code.
1:02:14
It's 50% off.
1:02:15
Right.
1:02:16
If you were any type of teacher in town, here's a code for 50% off.
1:02:19
We wanted it to be accessible.
1:02:21
Right.
1:02:22
Right.
1:02:23
Right.
1:02:24
But then as more and more and more and more people started getting kind of employed, we
1:02:28
had to remove some of those because when I would go back and look at it.
1:02:31
I was like, this person's used this code for every sound bat for a year.
1:02:34
You know, I used about, I used it three times.
1:02:37
I'm sorry.
1:02:38
Oh, I don't give a shit.
1:02:40
I don't care.
1:02:41
It was more so just being like, okay, we got to, you know, we got to, yeah, that's when it
1:02:45
gets complicated is when money gets involved, unfortunately, but yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:02:49
So what's the future plans for the whole thing?
1:02:53
Yeah, totally.
1:02:54
So we just did the big sound.
1:02:58
We so you know, the world's largest sound bat.
1:03:00
Did you actually get the world record?
1:03:03
Well, so we had a very wonderful conversation with Gennis World Records.
1:03:08
Oh, did you really?
1:03:09
Yeah.
1:03:10
And this was the second time, but we tried to get the world record in 2023, right?
1:03:16
And they, oh my God, I filled out so much paperwork and waited months and months and months and
1:03:22
months and then they were like, great, that'll be $18,000.
1:03:25
And $18,000 to get baseline, baseline price to get somebody to come out to confirm or just
1:03:32
to get just to confirm.
1:03:33
Wow.
1:03:34
Yeah.
1:03:35
I had no idea.
1:03:36
So that's interesting.
1:03:37
So there could be many people who have world records who just don't have $18,000.
1:03:44
So frankly, the Guinness Book of World Records, you know, I'm not going to try to offend anybody
1:03:48
here.
1:03:49
Could very well be full of fraudulent world records because who has $18,000?
1:03:54
Yeah.
1:03:55
I mean, well, okay, so this is, this is kind of their model, right?
1:03:59
The individual world records.
1:04:00
They're like a hundred bucks.
1:04:02
I see.
1:04:03
So, they're like, hey, we want to do something big and something that is marketable.
1:04:12
We want to do something that will, you know, get eyeballs and get press.
1:04:17
So if they want to get pressed to, yeah, exactly.
1:04:19
So Guinness World Records is essentially acting as a marketing company, which is of course,
1:04:23
of course, is a model that's going to allow them to survive and has allowed them to survive.
1:04:27
So I totally understand that.
1:04:29
And it was also disappointing to just be like, hey, this is a fairly like, like, relatively
1:04:33
small community thing that is, you know, centered around mental health on the international
1:04:38
day of peace.
1:04:39
And, you know, all of these things and they were like, no, they were like, we love that.
1:04:43
That would be $18,000.
1:04:44
I was like, okay, again, going back to these non-emotional business transactions, I was like,
1:04:48
okay, I get it.
1:04:49
Is there a record held now, but for the world's largest summit?
1:04:52
No, no, no.
1:04:53
So you were establishing a new one.
1:04:55
Exactly.
1:04:56
Yeah, which is an additional cost.
1:04:57
Oh, I see.
1:04:58
Oh, yeah.
1:04:59
It's a dollar sign.
1:05:00
It's a record.
1:05:01
It's a record.
1:05:02
It's a record.
1:05:03
It's a record.
1:05:04
They have kind of different prizes there.
1:05:05
It's just dollar signs on everything.
1:05:06
It's just like, you know, it's interesting having this conversation because it really isn't
1:05:09
a lot of ways, this conflict between, between healing and giving back to the community.
1:05:14
But also, there's dollar signs.
1:05:16
There's marketing.
1:05:17
There's all this stuff on the other side.
1:05:19
But yeah, so you were saying you're, so we did that large event.
1:05:22
It was great.
1:05:29
It was the largest collaborative soundbath in the world.
1:05:32
Okay.
1:05:33
You know, just the official Guinness world records, you know, not a thing.
1:05:39
Right.
1:05:40
It was wonderful.
1:05:41
It was really, really wonderful.
1:05:43
It was incredibly, incredibly, incredibly taxing on me.
1:05:47
I'm sure.
1:05:49
On all fronts.
1:05:50
I had a great team, but it was just logistics.
1:05:54
The logistics were, we're bonkers.
1:05:56
You know, I mean, thinking about everything from the port of parties to the badges, to the
1:06:00
EMS, to the insurance, to the, you know, every little thing.
1:06:04
Yeah.
1:06:05
So we did that.
1:06:06
It was wonderful.
1:06:07
And I had already felt my wins changing for the last year.
1:06:13
Okay.
1:06:14
And I was like, I'm ready to just, to just let this go, you know, in a way.
1:06:19
So, but one thing I've found so much joy in is teaching, you know, so it's about a year
1:06:24
ago.
1:06:25
I started teaching singing bowl workshops and sound healing classes and sound bath composition
1:06:29
classes.
1:06:30
And those have been so fun.
1:06:33
We, we stopped doing the full moon and new moon ones.
1:06:37
I don't know if those will come back.
1:06:38
They might.
1:06:39
We are still doing some of the larger ones.
1:06:42
We're doing the museum again in the spring.
1:06:44
We're going to do, I'm doing some smaller ones for like the winter solstice in New
1:06:48
Years and, you know, I'm also working on revamping all of my teaching courses and will be just
1:06:55
doing a lot of teaching.
1:06:57
Because now there's tons of practitioners, which is great.
1:06:59
And so where do you see this in 10 year?
1:07:01
I think that in 10 years, the offline in person movement is going to explode.
1:07:10
Okay.
1:07:11
There's going to be such a tipping point that there will almost be this, just this whole
1:07:15
birth of new form immersive experience, entertainment where the rising technology meets the needs
1:07:24
of community and all of these new experiential venues.
1:07:28
We're going to pop up because people are trying to pull ideas out of their ass to get people
1:07:32
to pay money for experiences now.
1:07:34
Sure.
1:07:35
And which I kind of appreciate the kind of progressive and state of the art qualities
1:07:41
that some of these are doing.
1:07:42
I was at this experiential museum in New York City.
1:07:46
I forget the name of it.
1:07:47
It's right by the World Trade Center, but there was a room in there that you, it's a dark
1:07:52
room.
1:07:53
There's like a low layer of fog on it.
1:07:54
You lie on the ground.
1:07:55
Yeah.
1:07:56
And they've somehow connected the subwoofer to the floor.
1:07:58
Oh, yeah.
1:07:59
So you're lying there and there's a sound space going on with the blinders for everybody.
1:08:03
But then like, you know, a lion or something and the entire floor just kind of goes like this.
1:08:07
Yeah.
1:08:08
It was, it was incredible.
1:08:09
That's so cool.
1:08:10
And I was like, you know, like, you know, house music or something.
1:08:13
Yeah.
1:08:14
The entire thing.
1:08:15
Yeah.
1:08:16
Yeah.
1:08:17
Yeah.
1:08:18
So sweet.
1:08:19
I really wanted to build a yoga studio here in town that had butt kickers in the floor, which
1:08:22
is probably what's doing.
1:08:23
What's a butt picker?
1:08:24
There essentially, there essentially these like transducers that you can, that pick up a
1:08:30
low frequencies and play the fun.
1:08:32
They shake at the fundamental of the sound source.
1:08:33
They're called butt pickers.
1:08:35
Butt kickers.
1:08:36
Butt kickers.
1:08:37
Yeah.
1:08:38
Yeah.
1:08:39
Yeah.
1:08:40
That's how, you know, you get like a lot of rumble and seats.
1:08:43
I love that idea.
1:08:44
I've had this idea for a yoga studio because I go to yoga a lot and I always, I don't want
1:08:48
just like background music, right?
1:08:50
If you're going to have music, have music, right?
1:08:52
And some of the classes that I love the most are when they really are intentional with
1:08:55
it.
1:08:56
And when the sound system is really good, like it, like it wraps around you, you know?
1:09:02
And then lights to have this idea when it's like these awesome lights and like a cool
1:09:06
sound system and all this.
1:09:07
But the amount of money you'd have to put into something like that.
1:09:09
And yoga is, I think the margin there is probably pretty hard to 100%.
1:09:14
Yeah.
1:09:15
Yeah.
1:09:16
Yeah.
1:09:17
Oh well.
1:09:18
Yeah.
1:09:19
I dreamed up a whole, whole wellness studio.
1:09:24
That was going to be like a light sound killer light studio immersive.
1:09:29
I have another friend who wants to do it too.
1:09:30
One of these days, man, we should all because my friend does stuff in, yeah.
1:09:35
Yeah.
1:09:36
So, beyond the sound bath stuff and the home stuff, like what do you, what's Jesse, what
1:09:42
do you like to do?
1:09:43
Yeah.
1:09:44
Like beyond all that stuff, which you mean?
1:09:45
Oh, man.
1:09:46
I mean, I'm sure those sound bath stuff is pretty much all encompassing a lot of the time.
1:09:49
But like, you know, yeah, they were for the last four years.
1:09:52
Yeah.
1:09:53
It was such a big thing.
1:09:54
So before that, I ran a poetry publishing company.
1:09:56
Okay.
1:09:57
It was called Secret Midnight Press.
1:09:58
It was a few friends and I.
1:10:00
And we did small batch poetry publications, really based around mental health.
1:10:06
We would put together a yearly poetry festival here in town.
1:10:10
That was like this like Ren Fair meets Burning Man kind of idea called Atlas Black.
1:10:16
It was a very, very cool, you know, kind of avant garde.
1:10:21
And then we did, you know, some poetry tours.
1:10:23
We did, you know, European poetry tours.
1:10:25
We did domestic poetry tours and we hosted open mics for years.
1:10:29
So poetry is a huge, huge part of my life.
1:10:32
All right.
1:10:33
All right.
1:10:34
Yeah.
1:10:35
So I'm working on a new collection of poetry.
1:10:38
I'm working on a bunch of ambient music with a bunch of different artists that's all going
1:10:42
to be up online, you know?
1:10:44
So putting out a ton of, since I'm stepping back from doing the sound bath full like all
1:10:51
the time, right, I'm making space so that I can make some original music working on some
1:10:56
hip-hop and dance songs.
1:10:58
I used to do a lot of like hip-hop stuff and hip-hop production.
1:11:01
Do you have any brothers or sisters?
1:11:03
Yes.
1:11:04
Yeah, yeah.
1:11:05
I've got one older brother.
1:11:06
And what does he do?
1:11:07
He is, he is also an artist.
1:11:10
He's had to work most of his life, right?
1:11:13
You know, and there's some complications there, sure.
1:11:16
Always.
1:11:17
But he's brilliant.
1:11:19
Is he still here?
1:11:21
Yeah.
1:11:22
He's a Columbus.
1:11:23
He's a very, very brilliant person.
1:11:25
And your parents are still around?
1:11:27
Yeah.
1:11:28
Yeah, I'm very close with most of my family.
1:11:30
Oh, that's nice.
1:11:31
Yeah.
1:11:32
So everybody's kind of in their own space.
1:11:34
Right.
1:11:35
Yeah, I wrote my parents.
1:11:36
And you're going to stick around Columbus, you think?
1:11:38
No.
1:11:39
No, and me either, actually.
1:11:42
So you know, I just spent three weeks in Japan.
1:11:46
Yeah.
1:11:47
And I was like, you know what?
1:11:49
One of the things that's been on my bucket list, my whole life is still living in a foreign
1:11:51
country.
1:11:52
Yeah.
1:11:53
And I'm not married.
1:11:54
I don't have kids.
1:11:55
I have the same exact feeling like I'm doing this.
1:11:57
Yeah.
1:11:58
And I'm just like, you know what?
1:11:59
I'm going to do this now.
1:12:00
You absolutely should.
1:12:01
Yeah.
1:12:02
So I'm taking this winner to sort through all of my belongings, figure that out.
1:12:06
Get rid of it all.
1:12:07
Get rid of it all.
1:12:08
Get it all.
1:12:09
Yeah.
1:12:10
Except for the keyboards.
1:12:11
Right.
1:12:12
Yeah.
1:12:13
Keep all the music here.
1:12:14
Keep the music here.
1:12:15
Figure out, you know, a few things, try to line some stuff over there.
1:12:16
I'm doing self-taught Japanese lessons like workbooks, videos, podcasts and things like that
1:12:21
for the last six months.
1:12:22
Right.
1:12:23
And then in January, I start school for Japanese.
1:12:25
Oh, nice.
1:12:26
Very difficult language.
1:12:27
Incredibly difficult.
1:12:28
But oh, it's so fun.
1:12:29
And it's been really, really, really, I've had so much fun.
1:12:34
Because there's like three different alphabet says that.
1:12:37
Yes.
1:12:38
Yeah.
1:12:39
Yeah.
1:12:40
Yeah.
1:12:41
Yeah.
1:12:42
Yeah.
1:12:43
Yeah.
1:12:44
Yeah.
1:12:45
Yeah.
1:12:46
Yeah.
1:12:47
Yeah.
1:12:48
Yeah.
1:12:49
Yeah.
1:12:50
Yeah.
1:12:51
And, you know, they're borrowed from Chinese.
1:12:52
Yeah.
1:12:53
And, you know, they're basically, they're, you know, they say in like daily use 97% of the
1:13:00
time, you're only going to use about a thousand.
1:13:02
Sure.
1:13:03
But to be proficient to pass the end one, which is the top proficiency test, you have to
1:13:07
know about 2200.
1:13:09
And what's crazy is they have the on and the coon sounds.
1:13:15
One is the sound that it adopts from China.
1:13:17
And the other is the sound that it has within Japanese.
1:13:20
So you have to memorize the Chinese sound, the Japanese sound, what it represents and how
1:13:26
it fits into context.
1:13:27
Yeah.
1:13:28
I lived in Korea for a couple years.
1:13:29
Oh, well.
1:13:30
When I was like 30 or so teaching English.
1:13:32
And I wish I'd learned how to speak Korean.
1:13:34
I learned a little bit, but you can learn how to read it because their alphabet is one of
1:13:38
the, it was, it's a legitimately invented alphabet invented by this King Sejong, who
1:13:44
based the characters on the shape of his wife's mouth when she made the sound.
1:13:48
So there's only 27 characters and you can pick it up in a day.
1:13:52
What a love story.
1:13:53
Yeah.
1:13:54
Yeah.
1:13:55
He was an interesting king from what I read.
1:13:56
Yeah, I'm sure.
1:13:58
Mix swagger.
1:13:59
Mix swagger.
1:14:00
Yeah.
1:14:01
I saw that on the internet.
1:14:02
I was just going to ask what exactly.
1:14:03
For sure.
1:14:04
Yeah.
1:14:05
So that's, it's funny.
1:14:06
You bring that up.
1:14:07
So Mix swagger was a trilogy graphic novel series that I spent a few years writing.
1:14:10
Oh, all right.
1:14:11
And I started writing it in late high school.
1:14:14
It took place in the future.
1:14:15
Yeah.
1:14:16
And how artificial intelligence had evolved to this point where every brand created a mascot
1:14:23
that was a fully sentient AI sort of representative.
1:14:29
And they made them all into pop stars and celebrities and all of these things.
1:14:35
And so that there were no more human pop stars and or celebrities.
1:14:39
Right.
1:14:40
And, but they were all just intellectual property that were shared and it was all big
1:14:44
business.
1:14:45
And it was all, you know, all the street crossovers and essentially exactly what's happening
1:14:52
now.
1:14:53
Yeah, we're getting there.
1:14:54
So, yeah.
1:14:55
Mix swagger was, if the email address that I have for all of my Mix swagger stuff is the
1:14:59
artificial intelligence entertainment.
1:15:01
So it's the AI entertainment dot gmail.com.
1:15:03
And you know, I've had that email address for like 18 years.
1:15:06
It's like a black mirror episode.
1:15:08
Come true.
1:15:09
Totally.
1:15:10
Yeah.
1:15:11
And when I, I mean, it was such a cool idea.
1:15:13
I loved, loved, loved Mix swagger.
1:15:16
So it was going to be a music act.
1:15:17
Okay.
1:15:18
That went hand in hand with the graphic novel.
1:15:21
The graphic novel was essentially, he was like the first big AI.
1:15:27
He was the original.
1:15:28
He was only by this guy.
1:15:30
And there was a third.
1:15:32
This is crazy too because it plays into it.
1:15:34
There was a third government movement rising to power.
1:15:37
And it was called new modern and new modern wanted to use the IP of Mix swagger to promote
1:15:43
new modern.
1:15:45
And he basically said, I'll never get involved in your politics.
1:15:49
Murdered him, framed Mix swagger.
1:15:50
Mix swagger is sent to be shut down.
1:15:52
Mix swagger is modeled after the last human rock star named Julian Gold.
1:15:58
So you would have like albums coming out and singles coming out.
1:16:00
You would have Julian Gold's music coming out.
1:16:02
You would have Mix swagger's music coming out.
1:16:03
You would have the other characters.
1:16:05
They would have albums coming out and they would all be doing songs together.
1:16:07
And we were talking with different artists of playing the different characters.
1:16:11
So we were like, oh, we're going to have, you know,
1:16:13
there was a, a T-shirt company.
1:16:17
And it was this robot, this AI named Miss Sugar.
1:16:22
You know, she was this Southern bell.
1:16:24
So it was Miss Sugar's sweet T's.
1:16:27
So you could go to Miss Sugar's sweet T's and buy her T-shirts online and get that merchandise.
1:16:32
But then she would also have like songs and stuff.
1:16:34
And then there was a whiskey sales AI personality named Dusty Crates.
1:16:39
And we were going to do a collab with Jack Daniel.
1:16:41
So it would be like Jack Daniel's Dusty Crates version of whiskey.
1:16:44
How long ago did you write this?
1:16:46
This, I was like 18, 1920.
1:16:48
Wow.
1:16:48
Press Shant.
1:16:49
Yeah.
1:16:49
God help us all.
1:16:50
It was, yeah.
1:16:51
Soon to be a major motion picture, probably.
1:16:53
Oh my God.
1:16:54
It was another one of the things I was so devastating to me.
1:16:56
Because I poured years and years and years into writing this trilogy.
1:16:59
You know, and interweaving all of the interactive elements.
1:17:03
Because it was going to be music videos.
1:17:04
It was going to be short films.
1:17:05
It was going to be graphic novels.
1:17:07
All of this merchandising and all this really, really fun stuff.
1:17:10
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:17:11
You know, really, this was before there was a ton of like really immersive story.
1:17:16
Right.
1:17:17
You had a vision.
1:17:18
Yeah.
1:17:19
And there were some companies and some, you know, people that were interested in supporting
1:17:22
it.
1:17:23
But it never, it never, it's never too late.
1:17:26
Yeah.
1:17:27
Well, it's, it, I've thought about it a bunch.
1:17:29
And I was like, it'd be funny to use essentially do mixwacker now.
1:17:34
You know, like, yeah.
1:17:36
Like bring it back and actually involved because, I mean, this huge K-pop deal just went through.
1:17:43
And it's the first ever signed AI artist.
1:17:46
And it was like, this like $200 million.
1:17:48
And it's just this AI personality.
1:17:50
I was like, this is literally mixedwacker.
1:17:51
Yeah.
1:17:52
And mixedwacker was modeled after some of what was happening in K-pop, you know, later on when
1:17:57
I started doing it.
1:17:58
And I was like, this is crazy.
1:17:59
It's interesting.
1:18:00
If you did it now, because it would almost be like, is this actually, is this actually happening
1:18:05
right?
1:18:06
Like, it's like a question of, is this real or is it not real?
1:18:08
Because it actually is happening in here.
1:18:10
Yeah.
1:18:11
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:18:12
But still, you should do it.
1:18:13
Yeah.
1:18:14
Which, which is funny to say that because that was part of the graphic novel was time travel.
1:18:18
And, and like was, you know, basically finding out that in the future, what we call UFO
1:18:23
sightings here today is actually, AI is being sent through a ripened in time to go and collect
1:18:30
observational data to take back to program AI.
1:18:34
Wouldn't it be strange if you found out that this all ended up becoming true?
1:18:37
This thing you wrote.
1:18:38
Yeah.
1:18:39
And you ended up being some sort of like a, like a, like a profit of some sort of people would
1:18:43
like, it would be like, he knew before everybody else knew.
1:18:45
And now the AI is actually coming from outer space and breaking through anyway, just I thought
1:18:50
I had.
1:18:51
Can you imagine all of that's called mixedwacker?
1:18:55
So funny.
1:18:56
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:18:57
I have a, just a few more here.
1:19:00
Sure.
1:19:01
You don't even need to use my list.
1:19:02
But, because we get some most.
1:19:04
You said you were also leaving Columbus.
1:19:05
Where do you want to go?
1:19:06
Well, I spent, I lost my job earlier this year.
1:19:09
So I went to Mexico City.
1:19:11
I never been to Mexico City.
1:19:12
You been a dream of going.
1:19:14
Dude, I'm telling you, go there before you go to Japan because Mexico City is.
1:19:18
That's anyway, I love it there.
1:19:20
Yeah, I spent about a month and a half there in spring and then went back for my birthday
1:19:26
just like last week for a week.
1:19:28
And that's right.
1:19:29
Every time I go back there, I'm just like number one, America is not fun right now.
1:19:34
You know what I mean?
1:19:35
It's got bad vibes.
1:19:36
So yeah, I'm really trying hard to get some remote like podcasting or video editing work,
1:19:40
which is my, which is my business.
1:19:42
So I can just move to my specific city for like six, five, six months, as long as the V-Soul
1:19:47
last, at least, and see what happens.
1:19:49
Yeah.
1:19:50
Kind of digital nomad it because I don't have any kids.
1:19:51
I'm not connected.
1:19:52
Totally.
1:19:53
Yeah.
1:19:54
I mean, what am I doing in Columbus is the question I asked myself because everybody
1:19:58
here as a house and is married for the most part.
1:20:00
And it just feels like, you know, I feel out of place.
1:20:04
Sometimes.
1:20:05
I get it.
1:20:06
Yeah.
1:20:07
That was one of the big reasons why I wanted to leave.
1:20:08
Yeah.
1:20:09
I got to go be with my wife.
1:20:10
And life is too fucking short to be, you know what I mean?
1:20:12
So time's flying right now.
1:20:14
Yeah.
1:20:15
And it's, I don't know.
1:20:17
All the fun stuff happens outside of your comfort zone.
1:20:19
People don't realize this.
1:20:20
They're afraid to do things.
1:20:21
But like, that's where the fun stuff's going to happen.
1:20:24
That's where the gold stuff is, you know.
1:20:25
Yeah.
1:20:26
The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you see.
1:20:29
Always.
1:20:30
All the fun stuff I look back on, I was like resistant to it first, but then did it
1:20:33
anyway.
1:20:34
And I was like, well, thank God I did that because it's the loop.
1:20:36
Same.
1:20:37
Oh, always every time.
1:20:38
Yeah.
1:20:39
Yeah.
1:20:40
It's a life lesson that I wish I'd learned earlier, but I'm glad I learned it eventually.
1:20:43
Right.
1:20:44
Yeah.
1:20:45
Because I think it's one of the most important ones that most people never actually learn.
1:20:48
I think it's because they don't have a lot of encouragement or examples that they know.
1:20:52
They see them in movies.
1:20:53
Truth.
1:20:54
They see, they hear them in stories, but there's a disconnect there.
1:20:56
Right.
1:20:57
You got a favorite song right now?
1:20:58
Oh, man.
1:20:59
Favorite song right now.
1:21:00
Right now.
1:21:01
One of the top three.
1:21:02
Goodetski Polish composer.
1:21:06
Okay.
1:21:07
I just discovered this.
1:21:08
It's, you know, I think it was if written in the 70s.
1:21:13
Symphony number three, Opus 36.
1:21:16
It's the symphony of sorrowful songs.
1:21:20
It's three movements all done by a solo sopranoist.
1:21:25
It's opera.
1:21:26
And each one is a different lament.
1:21:29
The first one is Mary, I think, after losing Jesus.
1:21:35
And I'm pretty sure the second one is a message written on a Gestapo prison wall.
1:21:42
And the third one is a woman who lost her child, is looking for her child in the war.
1:21:50
And it is just, oh my God.
1:21:55
I have listened to the third movement so much in the last week.
1:22:00
It is profound.
1:22:01
It is so devastatingly beautiful.
1:22:06
That's it right now for me.
1:22:08
Yeah.
1:22:09
Same one for me.
1:22:10
Yeah.
1:22:11
Weird, right?
1:22:12
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:22:13
Yeah, yeah.
1:22:14
What brings you joy?
1:22:15
Oh, man.
1:22:16
What brings me joy?
1:22:17
Well, I mean, we know to a degree already, but yeah.
1:22:21
Yeah.
1:22:22
A lot of things bring me joy.
1:22:23
I love the first thing I wanted to say was tea.
1:22:27
I'm obsessed with tea.
1:22:28
All right.
1:22:29
I love tea.
1:22:30
Any particular flavor of tea?
1:22:31
Yes.
1:22:32
My favorite tea is a lab saying sutrong.
1:22:33
It's like a smoked tea.
1:22:35
It's a Japan.
1:22:36
It'll be good for you.
1:22:37
Well, it's funny.
1:22:38
So when I, it's actually a, not a Japanese form of processing.
1:22:43
They do not have Japanese lab saying sutrong.
1:22:46
But I centered a huge part of my jet, tripped to Japan around tea.
1:22:52
Because they have, they're sure, very famous for their green tea.
1:22:58
Japanese tea is green tea.
1:23:00
Yeah, I love, I did the ceremony there.
1:23:02
It's really sweet.
1:23:03
Yeah.
1:23:04
Yeah.
1:23:05
Yeah.
1:23:06
Matches ceremony, their green tea, their senchan, their matcha, and there's, you know, all
1:23:08
of those kind of breakdown into different kind of qualities in the way they're grown and
1:23:11
processed.
1:23:12
But there's one guy in Japan who processes tea through the methods of creating a lab
1:23:19
saying sutrong, through smoking it essentially.
1:23:21
And I found this guy's information online.
1:23:24
He won all these tea awards like last, like 10 years ago.
1:23:28
And I just happened, he just happened to have his farm in the prefecture I was visiting
1:23:33
for tea.
1:23:34
And I was like, oh my God, I found his farm.
1:23:37
I found his email address and I emailed him.
1:23:39
I was like, hey, look, I, this is my favorite kind of tea in the world.
1:23:44
He does his by burning Japanese whiskey barrels.
1:23:47
And he smokes the tea in Japanese whiskey barrels.
1:23:50
Right.
1:23:51
Like, I would love nothing more on this trip while I'm here to come to your tea farm to meet
1:23:57
you and to buy your tea.
1:23:59
And he said, yes, sure.
1:24:01
So I took, you know, this hour long train ride and this taxi ride out into the country and
1:24:05
went to this guy's tea farm and he made me a cup of his lab saying sutrong.
1:24:09
And it was, it was just, to me, it was one of the best moments ever.
1:24:14
I was just like, this to me is so deep.
1:24:20
To just my level of love, love.
1:24:23
I love that.
1:24:24
Yeah, it was really special to me.
1:24:27
And almost more than that, I love the fact that all it took was just an email that you
1:24:31
didn't think maybe he would answer, but you know, why not?
1:24:34
People oftentimes will do that.
1:24:36
Uh-huh.
1:24:37
That's literally been my whole life is asking and why, you know, why not?
1:24:41
Just ask.
1:24:42
I emailed Ford when I was in 17.
1:24:45
Yeah.
1:24:46
The, you know, Ford.
1:24:47
And they just come out with the Ford flex.
1:24:49
Yeah.
1:24:50
And I was like, hey, can I have a free Ford flex to tour around the country and I'll take
1:24:53
photos right about it and post it on my blog and on my space.
1:24:56
And they said, yes, you are an entrepreneur.
1:24:58
They say, I was like, wow, this is what I'll do.
1:25:00
And they said, yes, but I was also suffering from crippling depression.
1:25:03
So I ignored the paperwork for six months.
1:25:07
And when I finally didn't send it back to them, they were like, dude, this was six months
1:25:11
ago.
1:25:12
And I was like, shit.
1:25:13
I put a driven that Ford flex all over the country.
1:25:17
I know.
1:25:18
So funny, man.
1:25:19
Wow.
1:25:20
Entrepreneurship.
1:25:21
Yeah.
1:25:22
The question that I usually ask at the end of the podcast is, what do you think happens when
1:25:30
we die, when we move on to the next, whatever it is?
1:25:33
Yeah.
1:25:34
Absolutely.
1:25:35
Well, we're obviously experiencing time right now, whatever that is.
1:25:42
Yeah.
1:25:43
Yeah.
1:25:44
Like, I always see it as just like, as a lightning bolt, you know, just like we are, we
1:25:47
are just the little edge of that lightning bolt.
1:25:50
And so I mean, the whole thing exists.
1:25:53
And then that just discovers a pathway.
1:25:55
So we're just discovering a pathway right now in a, you know, a signal going in one direction,
1:26:00
but that doesn't mean that it's the only direction that exists.
1:26:03
It just means that's the route we're traveling.
1:26:08
I think that it's going to be like waking up, whatever it is.
1:26:18
I think it's going to be wonderful.
1:26:20
I actually was thinking about this earlier today.
1:26:21
I was like, you know, it would be crazy is if like we wake up from this and it's literally
1:26:27
just one dream in another life.
1:26:31
And then we live a whole day of that life.
1:26:34
And then we fall asleep again.
1:26:36
And then we have a whole other life and then we wake up and then eventually we have to get
1:26:40
through that whole second life.
1:26:42
And then when we die, then it keeps going out layer by layer.
1:26:46
Yeah.
1:26:47
And I was like, but our consciousness follows it all the way out.
1:26:49
I was like, that would be insane.
1:26:50
That would be insane.
1:26:51
I don't know if that's how it happens.
1:26:52
All I know is that I've had family and friends pass away that I still experience, see and
1:26:59
hear from.
1:27:00
And I'm like, I know that this beautiful, beautiful mesh, this brushstroke, whatever it
1:27:05
is, is so poetic in, and that's the only way that we can understand it and experience it.
1:27:13
Even if it does wrap up and this is it, a story has to have an ending in order for it to
1:27:18
be true.
1:27:19
It's true.
1:27:20
It's true.
1:27:21
It gives the life meaning.
1:27:22
Yeah.
1:27:23
Yeah.
1:27:24
So I don't know, but I'm, I'm really happy to be here.
1:27:28
I mean, you know, geez, it's a miracle, right?
1:27:30
It's amazing.
1:27:31
How strange it is to be anything at all as they say.
1:27:34
Yeah.
1:27:35
Yeah.
1:27:36
Yes, exactly.
1:27:37
Yeah.
1:27:38
Neutral mo hotel.
1:27:39
Yeah.
1:27:40
Is there anything that Jesse would like to promote before we wrap up?
1:27:43
Oh, man.
1:27:44
You know, I feel like right now, I think one of the things I would love to promote is encouraging
1:27:50
people to make that leap of faith towards themselves.
1:27:55
Whatever that looks like.
1:27:56
I love this.
1:27:57
Take a chance.
1:27:58
You know, take a chance.
1:27:59
Get out of that comfort zone.
1:28:00
Get out of the comfort zone.
1:28:01
But I'm not saying necessarily by a ticket and go to a country, I'm saying, take a step
1:28:06
in and, and like, make room for the voice of your heart to be heard.
1:28:14
You know, I feel like, I feel like right now, the best way that we can help each other
1:28:18
and help the world is by learning to hear our deeper wants and needs and being able
1:28:25
to bring into the world and into our lives something that reflects that so that we have just,
1:28:33
you know, people talk about authenticity a lot.
1:28:35
If we can just have a bunch of really authentic people walking around, I think that it would
1:28:43
be great for the nutrition of the soil of reality to see what grows from there, you know?
1:28:51
And I think this winner is really just going to be massive for a lot of shedding, you know,
1:28:59
metaphorically and a lot of people to come out next spring and just feeling different
1:29:07
and feeling ready.
1:29:09
So I say, whatever it looks like to make that possible.
1:29:13
Jesse Cale.
1:29:14
Thanks for coming on the podcast.
1:29:15
Thanks for having me.
1:29:16
It's great to get to know you.
1:29:17
Great to get to hear your story.
1:29:19
And yeah, I appreciate it, man.
1:29:21
Appreciate you having me.
1:29:22
This was so fun.
1:29:23
I appreciate that.
1:29:24
Yeah, absolutely.
1:29:25
Thanks, man.
1:29:26
Of course.
1:29:27
Bye, everybody.
1:29:28
Bye.
1:29:29
And that was Jesse Cale.
1:29:40
I learned from that interview that the happiest chord is the F-sharp major chord.
1:29:46
I did not know that.
1:29:48
It's then I played it on my guitar and I was like, yeah, it is a happy chord.
1:29:55
Always learning.
1:29:57
Thank you so much, Jesse, for coming on the podcast.
1:29:59
Thank you for your time.
1:30:00
Really appreciate it.
1:30:01
If you'd like to learn more about hOm sound bass, you can go to homsoundmeditation.com.
1:30:10
That's homsoundmeditation.com.
1:30:13
You can find them on Instagram @homsoundbaths.
1:30:17
There's somewhere near you you can be then sound, and you can follow Jesse on Instagram
1:30:24
@JesseCale. That's J-E-S-S-E-C-A-L-E. Those will all be in the show notes as well. You can
1:30:32
follow the podcast on Instagram and several other social media platforms @onefjefpod. Patreon,
1:30:41
Patreon, Patreon, Patreon, Patreon, Patreon, Patreon, Patreon, Patreon, Patreon, Patreon subscribers.
1:30:46
I'm a big fan of all of you. Thank you for sticking with me. Thank you for supporting
1:30:52
the podcast. If you are listening to this podcast and you are not a Patreon subscriber,
1:30:57
I might ask you a favor. I might ask you to go to patreon.com/onefjef and sign up. Of course,
1:31:05
all this $5 a month, you can help support the podcast and you can get some extra content, more of
1:31:11
which will be coming now that it's 2026. Because I have a lot of thoughts running through my head
1:31:17
these days and they're going to come out at some point. And if you're a Patreon subscriber,
1:31:22
you're going to get to hear them. Some of you are maybe thinking, "What if I don't want to hear them?"
1:31:27
Well, there will be other things for you. Some photographs, some unreleased parts of other episodes,
1:31:33
it's a smorgasbord. While I wouldn't say it's a smorgasbord, but it will be a smorgasbord. How do you
1:31:39
pronounce that smorgasbord? Whatever. Subscribe to the Patreon page please. I would really appreciate it.
1:31:45
And in honor of the new year, I'm going to go back to Rumi for some wisdom, insight, etc.
1:31:53
This being human is a guesthouse. Every morning, a new arrival, a joy, a depression, a meanness,
1:32:03
some momentary awareness comes as an unexpected visitor. Welcome and entertain them all,
1:32:09
even if they're a crowd of sorrows who violently sweep your house empty of its furniture. Still, treat each
1:32:16
guest honorably, he may be clearing you out for some new delight. The dark thought, the shame, the
1:32:23
malice, meet the methador laughing and invite them in. Be grateful for whoever comes because each
1:32:29
has been sent as a guide from beyond. I'll see you next week. Very good, Jeffrey.
1:32:37
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