Latest / Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement / #093- "Navigating Change" with Eddie Garcia Part 1

Transcript

#093- "Navigating Change" with Eddie Garcia Part 1 · Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot of things, but number one you have to be present, you know, and again, a police chief is only as good as his or her people.
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: So I can say whatever I wanted a community meeting, an act, I care, but if my officers weren't acting the same way, that message would be hollow, and so I really owe it to the men and women that bought in that we cared.
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Hey, Blue Grit Podcast.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: We are back this week, Clay McNeer, your co-host.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: We've got a guest co-host this week, John Siriga, my boss.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: How are you, sir?
• 0:33
  Speaker 3: I'm well, it's nice to be back in here.
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: I like having you on.
• 0:36
  Speaker 3: I like having you on.
• 0:37
  Speaker 3: Thank you, you've got a California boy in here today.
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: Figured you'd bring in another one.
• 0:42
  Speaker 3: Two of us did it.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: You got two today.
• 0:44
  Speaker 3: Englewood PD.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: All right, all right.
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: So Cal Yep, we're incredibly honored and excited to have on a guest.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: We've been trying to get and pinning him down.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: He's so busy he's like trying to get Elvis on here.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: It's next impossible, but extremely excited to have.
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: Can I still call you, chief Eddie?
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: You know what?
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: It's old habits, die hard.
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: I think most people continue to call me Chief, so you're all good doing that.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: We got Eddie Garcia retired from Dallas PD as the Chief recently and is now the Assistant City Manager or Director of Public Safety.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Assistant City Manager of Republic Safety.
• 1:23
  Speaker 2: Assistant City Manager of Republic Safety of Austin, eddie Garcia.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Thank you, sir, welcome.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Thank you for having me.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: It's an honor to be here with you.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: Easier to pin down, elvis, than it is.
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: You're a busy man.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: Things are a little bit busy, but, man, you've got to make time for these, so thanks for having me.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: Three hours from Dallas in your Cowboys.
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: Are you settled in here?
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: Well, the Cowboys continue to kill me still, but I am starting to get settled down here yeah, it's like an abusive relationship when you're a Cowboys fan, isn't it I?
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: Tell you, man, I tell you my boys, they're adults now.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: But a couple years ago, after another devastating loss, one of my sons looks at me and goes Dad, why did you do this to us?
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: That's awesome and I go.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: Son, I don't know what to tell you.
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: I got nothing.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: I got nothing.
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: Probably all of our viewers are going to know who you are.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: We have a lot of non-police viewers.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: Share a little bit about your background, where you grew up and what life looked like before you became an official Texan.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Oh, so originally I was born in Puerto Rico.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: I moved to California.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: I was young, learned how to speak English in Northern California, san Jose, california.
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: It was my dream to become a San Jose police officer, began in San Jose at 21.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Actually, I turned 21 in December and my academy started in February.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: So I was fresh 21 and, you know, went throughout the department and worked.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: You know all the units.
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: You know work narcotics, enforcement work, swat, did fugitive apprehension, was a homicide investigator, you know.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: And then started going up the ranks to command over investigations and things of that nature.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: So pretty much sat in the sat in most of the seats Always called myself a blue-collar chief.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: I didn't go to fancy schools or what have you.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: I kind of just learned how to do the job actually being present and ultimately became the chief there, which was awesome.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: It's a funny story, real quick.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: I want to make this quick because most people do know, but I always talk about this story Learning English in San Jose.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: My mom goes up to a teacher one day and asks how my sister and I are doing and the teacher goes well, they'll never be at the top of their class, but they'll be okay.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: And I'll never forget becoming chief in San Jose in 2016.
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: I looked at my mom in a crowded council chambers and go hey, mom, I think we made it to the top of the class now, outstanding Nice.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: So that was cool and so outstanding.
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: So working in San Jose was amazing.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: Um, I always give all the credit in the world.
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: The only reason I got to Dallas is because the amazing men and women of the San Jose police department Um and uh when I was ready to retire from San Jose.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: Um, get a call, uh, from Dallas.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: And uh, I'm sitting there going really, uh, dallas, huh and uh, and I'm like well, I've been to the city tons of times.
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: I am I'm going to say, unfortunately or fortunately, because I die.
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: I'm a cowboy for life, but anyway, I've been there many times to watch cowboy games and stayed there and uh, in the ring, knowing that I was, you know, being an outside chief Coming to Dallas, and, luckily enough, I got the job, Went to Dallas, was there almost four years.
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: Amazing men and women.
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: I'm just fortunate I had a front row seat.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: Texas is a different place.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: I am, as I said in my retirement party, I'm so glad that I ended my career as a Texas lawman, because I tell you it's different.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: The support that we get in the state and cities that we have is incomparable to any other place.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Quite frankly, having been as part of the Major City Chiefs association and, just recently, the president of that association, you know I talked to my fellow chiefs around the country and I will tell you, um, texas is a different place, um, it's a positive place and it's a great place to be a police officer.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: I'm glad to see both sides.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: Um, you know, I would have love for my men and women um, that died for the city San Jose, that bled for the city of San Jose, to see what true support truly feels like.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: But you know, cops are cops.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: It was an absolutely enjoyable experience.
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: Dallas PD was worth all the sacrifices.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: I've said before, there's no way that I would have this position now if it weren't for them.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: You know, we're only as good as our people man and uh, they were amazing and so, um, any successes that I've had um is all for them, um, and all because of them.
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: Um, and that's why I'm here now.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: Um, we can get into why I'm here now, but uh, but anyway.
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: So that's kind of the short of uh, my story.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: So my dad is a retired Dallas PD and he's very proud of being Dallas PD For several chiefs.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: In the way the department was going it would literally make him cry over how the department went.
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: And so I'll never forget looking at the Dallas Morning News and seeing it was you and two other candidates in there and it was y'all's little profile and kind of y'all's theory or belief system on police work.
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: And the first two were like we need to engage the criminals and understand why and we need to.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: And I get down to the third and it said Eddie Garcia, san Jose police.
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: We need to aggressively put violent criminals in jail.
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: We need to enforce the law.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: We need to.
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: And I thought, well, whoever this cat Eddie Garcia is will not be.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: He will be the first one thrown out of that selection because you didn't give the hug.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: A thug, we need to apologize for being here.
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: And blah, blah, blah, blah and he'll be damned if eddie garcia didn't become the police chief in dallas.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: Well then, you're tweeting out like riding out on air one showing up at a SWAT call.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: Our SWAT guys are getting more dope and guns off the street and the community loved it and the community and it was just crazy to watch how your impact, the, how a philosophical difference and a change in leadership can have an immediate impact not just on the department but on the community and generally.
• 7:36
  Speaker 2: If the police love their chief, the community doesn't, or if the community loves their chief, the police don't.
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: It was.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: It was fascinating to watch how quickly you were able to come in and there be a difference made.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: It was awesome to sit back and watch.
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: Well, you know, I appreciate that and I'll tell you what, through the years I was in Dallas, there's probably many an individual that told me the same thing you just said, that they were shocked when I got the job.
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: But it's about balance.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: The one thing that I've seen in the years that I was a chief is that some chiefs, either it's all about balance, community and very little about taking violent criminals off the street, or some chiefs it's all about taking violent criminals off the street and very little about the community, and and that's and I think that's a big problem because you need to do both.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a balance.
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: It's a balance.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: Um, I loved my community and I gave back to my community and the department gave back to my community and we admitted our wrongs.
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: We admitted, you know, we have to get better as a profession.
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: There's no question about it, and you have to admit that.
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: You know I'll never forget I was at a barbershop talk series and there was a young lady, um, that was very, was agitated, um, because you know her comment was you know, you guys never admit when you're wrong, and there's a lot of things that you've done to our community and and she made a lot of great points and I sat there and I go, I understand we have and we're going to get better and we're going to strive to get better.
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: And then that conversation went from like a nine down to a two and we had a conversation because we, we, we recognize where we were.
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: The men and women recognize that we had to get better and they did.
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: Um, we're an imperfect profession and and you know, but by the same time, you know I'll say this and I and I've said this, you know I'm not, I was not a stay in the office kind of chief Uh, there was not a neighborhood in the city of Dallas or in California and San Jose, regardless of language spoken, racial makeup or economic status, in neighborhood meetings that were impacted by crime that I ever once heard the words we want to see less of you in our neighborhoods and the reality of it is is in communities that were impacted by violent crime and unfortunately, oftentimes there are communities of color that they would let me have it If I wasn't providing them with police resources and presence.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: You know our communities, you know we, we need to be just, we need to be fair, we need to get better.
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: We need to recognize that.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: But our communities and our neighborhoods that are impacted by crime did not ever want us to go away, did not ever want us to go away.
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: You know there was a after the Freddie Gray death, an incident in Baltimore, and when those when that situation was going on, I'll never forget because I study and I read these things where they talked to a reverend there who was a social justice advocate and they asked him hey, have you seen reforms work here in the city of Baltimore?
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: And he said hey, have you seen reforms work here in the city of Baltimore?
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: And he said, no, I they haven't been working here.
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: And he says I haven't seen them work anywhere else in the country, cause what it's done is the community has gone to one corner, the police have gone to the other corner and there's no one in the middle to keep us safe, he says.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: He says and I laughed nervously about this, but he said his final comment was we just didn't want you to beat the hell out of us, we didn't want you to go away.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: And that's been lost and I think we're starting to get that back where we need to be just, we need to be professional, but we need to balance the needs of our community, the real reasons why violent crime exists, while at the same token understanding that we need to do more with mental health there's no question about it.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: We need to do more with jobs and opportunity and reinvest in people and places there's no question about it.
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: But we also need men and women here today to take the violent criminal off the street, to ensure our people or our communities are alive and not having to suffer today.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: And so there is a balance and you can't be one way or the other, and it's an emotional bank account.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: You have to give to your community and you have to give to your rank and file and hold yourselves accountable, and I think that's what we were successful in doing in Dallas you mentioned.
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: When you talk about the balance, I think you look back, say, post George Floyd.
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: You look at Colorado, california, legislation that was passed that really handcuffed law enforcement.
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: Fortunately that didn't happen in Texas.
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: We had the support of the legislature, but who advocated for those legislative changes?
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: It was the radical left, the radical left who's organized and very loud, but who suffered?
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: The people in the community, right?
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: I mean, we've seen in California, Oakland, san Francisco, portland, seattle, you can go on and on the people in the community suffered because of decisions politicians made for political expediency.
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: It's really, it's unfortunate, yeah, messages getting's unfortunate, yeah, messages getting hijacked, absolutely, absolutely.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: Well, the way you know, the way I've put it before, is that there was a tremendous disconnect, right?
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: Because during those communities.
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: Well, let's, let's go back and say that when I talk, when we talk about poor short post, george Floyd, we're in the perfect storm because at a time when police departments, police chiefs, needed to go out into their community to get more trust, to start meeting with people face to face, we're in the middle of a pandemic and and so and to me, I always talk about that that at that time, you know, god forbid an incident like that happens again.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: But I can guarantee you, every professional police department and police chief will be spending every day and night out in their communities talking to people face to face, with their rank and file, to look at each other in the eyes, to say this is why we do what we do.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Tell me your fears, we'll tell you what we go through and have those conversations, and I don't there's no zoom meeting or teams meeting that even compares to face to face.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: So it was a it was a perfect storm where we we needed to do put some work into our community, a lot of work, and because of the pandemic, it was very it was difficult to to to have those absolutely important conversations with our community.
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: What ingredient do you think?
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: Because one anomaly that I watched with you was all racial groups.
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: You had all their support Generally in the past.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: If the black communities in Dallas loved the chief, probably the Hispanic community did not, or the North Dallas community did not, or vice versa, or various racial makeups within the department didn't.
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: And I could literally watch you walk into any part of the city with any racial composition and you had the support in it which it's been an anomaly in that city, part of the city with any racial composition and you had the support in it which was it's been an anomaly in that in that city, not just in the department but in the communities as well, that you were able to what.
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: What is there something you could put your finger on that you think enabled that?
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: I mean, there's a lot of things, but you, number one, you have to be present.
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: You know you have to be present in the community, you have to listen to their needs and then act upon their needs.
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: You have to care.
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: I think that you know.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: And again, a police chief is only as good as his or her people.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: So I can say whatever I wanted, a community meeting, an act, I care.
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: But if my officers weren't acting the same way, that message would be hollow.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: Meeting and act, I care, but if my officers weren't acting the same way, that message would be hollow.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: And so I really owe it to the men and women that bought in uh, that we cared, um, you know whether it was.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: You know whether it was, um, you know, giving South Oak cliff football team an escort, uh, for their first state championship, um, and being there like we cared, we truly cared.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: And again it goes back for the officer, showing that they cared to their communities.
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: There's another instance.
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: You know, I was sitting with a family early on whose son was gang involved and he had been a victim of a murder and the suspect had fled to Mexico.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: And he had been a victim of a murder and the suspect had fled to Mexico and they were frustrated with the process of the investigation and the apprehension, which you know.
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Obviously, if you're not a police officer, you don't understand the complexities of of, of uh, you know working with the federal government and other things to to bring someone back.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: And there was a grandma, his grandmother was there, his abuelita was there and His grandma, his grandmother was there, his abuelita was there, and you know, throughout the conversation I'm speaking in English and also in Spanish to her and at the end you know they understood.
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: I mean, they were frustrated, but they understood.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: It's not on us and I'll never forget this man because I got emotional on it.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: So she looks at me and she grabs me by the hands and she says she looks at me and she grabs me by the hands and she says and what that means is she grabs me by the hand, looks at me and she goes I knew when you got here that I would not have a voice and one of the most powerful things like to me felt so it was I go, we're going to do stuff here, you know.
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: So whether, whether we was going to, you know to any of our communities of color worth the African, african, american community or Latino community, we cared, and we didn't just say we cared.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: They saw us there, they saw us working with them, they saw the fact that we recognized.
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: You know, with the programs that we'll put in place as an example, you know, when you look at focus deterrence as an example, which was one of the parts of our crime plan, you know that program was to try to get people out of the, out of a violent life, by recognizing what the root causes are.
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: And so you know, what we wanted to do is we gave a message and say, listen, we don't want any violence in Dallas and we'll use every tool we have to ensure no one hurts our community.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: But if you need help, if you need help with mental health, if you need help with substance abuse, if you need a job, if you need a job training, if you need education, if you need your driver's license because you just got released out of prison, we wanted to have a holistic set, a holistic program that could help those individuals get into a positive life and, once they pay their debt to society and pay their debt to get them, try to get them back on the positive road, understanding that if we don't.
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: Odds are someone else in our community is going to get victimized, so we would behoove us to try to help that and help them.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: And so when you, when you go out there and people start seeing that you truly just don't believe that you're going to get out of violent crime by arresting people.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: And a lot of people say it, but then a lot of people don't have plans for how they're going to do that.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: And we had a plan, and so for a lot of communities that have been underserved, and we have to admit that, that there's communities that not only do we need to reinvest in, but there's communities we've never invested in to begin with, that need to have hope, what do?
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: And we need to ensure that the cause that we have to respond to, and then people have to pay the consequences for violence that they cause.
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: But there's things that have nothing to do with police work that we need to be able to do and I preach that loud and clear.
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: My officers heard that and, at the same time, yeah, we need to go into those same neighborhoods because there's beautiful people that live in those neighborhoods.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: It's a very small percentage of those neighborhoods that are causing most of the violence and we need to root that out for them, for them.
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: So let me ask you along those lines.
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: Then you came in at a time when DAs across the country were going soft on crime, no secret about that, after George Floyd, including the Dallas County DA.
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: How did you navigate that with, with the, with?
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: Cruz.
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: Oh well, you know it's interesting Cause I, when I, when I got there, I heard a lot of and I heard a lot of negatives about the DA's office.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: But that's easy to say, for for people that don't know the inner, the inner workings of how the justice system works.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: And you know, I'll tell you for the nearly four years that I was there and I'll tell you DA Cruzot was on my retirement party.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: Da Cruzot and I have a tremendous relationship.
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: He was a partner with me when it came to violent crime.
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: Now, listen, we didn't agree on everything, but he was a partner and I can truly say that as a partner.
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: And I think whether you guys know from my reputation, I wouldn't say that if it weren't true.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: And you know, ultimately, I think also what judge Cruz saw in the department is that we were also trying to do it different ways, that we did not have just a we're going to arrest our way out of this mess mentality.
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: That's not what the Dallas police department was or is all about and and that's how we navigated it.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: We had conversations about things and, again, when it came to violent crime, judge Cruzot was a partner for us.
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: There were times that there's no secret I look back at many press conferences that the problem that I saw the most part, particularly in Dallas County, was with irresponsible decisions coming from the bench, whether it be sentencing bond, ankle monitors for violent criminals, things of that nature.
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: That we did the study.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: We brought in criminologists to say that there's an issue with the revolving door, and that wasn't just law enforcement.
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: My mantra has always been bringing outside experts to study the department.
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: How can we get better and study the system?
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: And so my biggest issue was never very rarely with DA Cruzot, but it was with irresponsible decisions coming from the bench.
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: Which is we have that problem in Harris County also, and it's really, it's unfortunate.
• 21:29
  Speaker 3: In Harris County you have murderers walking the streets.
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: Troy would tell me all the time with regards to the fact that there were individuals, and again, there's such a disconnect between.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: Does anyone that makes these decisions?
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: actually go into neighborhoods, I would say no, well, yeah, I'm actually.
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: It's a rhetorical question, really, because that's where the disconnect is.
• 22:08
  Speaker 2: We've challenged DA Garza to do a ride-along.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: Go see, sit in ivory tower.
• 22:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, go do a ride along, go sit in the front seat of troll car on friday night and see what's going on in apd, or go sit with the family of a murder victim, like you did yeah, I mean those things are important, you know.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: Uh, they're in present.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: You said being present is huge and that's the big difference you made.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: I'm friends with the Pinton family and you were present.
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: You changed their life, gordon.
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: You changed that young man's life.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: I think you're more present than most leaders.
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: I was joking with somebody, I was bragging that we were able to get you on here and I said it's sad when somebody like Eddie Garcia is a unicorn when it should be the norm.
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: Strong leadership, present leadership shouldn't be a unicorn.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: That should be the norm in our society.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: It shouldn't be an anomaly.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: When I got hired at Garland it was all old former Marines and old hard school old hard-nosed cops were all of our command staff.
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: Um, and everything's really changed there.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: A lot it's.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: It's it's like the flow of police leadership across the country and, uh, man, it's really in the community.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: Your presence is seen but it's in the inside, the department to the Penton's, the Gordon um, being present is huge.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: You know, being present is present is incredibly important.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: And again, I and I've said this before if you want to wear four stars on your collar, your life doesn't belong to you anymore.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: It belongs to your men and women, it belongs to your community.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: Um, anyone that says that there's a balance, walk away, because they're full of crap.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: There is no balance.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: We're in four stars you, you eat, you eat, sleep and breathe.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: Your community and your rank and file.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: You know, the first time, I think the first week, I got to Dallas, I went on patrol and, uh, we got in a foot pursuit, which I still get.
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: You know, they, people still laugh about.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: I think I, it was a short put for you, because my partner ran a lot further than I did and I went back to get the car, um, but I think I, I may have torn both hamstrings, um, but, but I enjoyed doing that stuff, um, I enjoyed being present.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: And whether it's good news or bad news, man, I mean, the men and women just want to see.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: They want to.
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: You know, they, they, they want to see their chief right, and the community wants to see their chief.
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: And you know, I'll just say this.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: Talk about the.
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: I never take credit for any of this man.
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: The only reason that we were successful is because of the men and women.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: You know, I know a lot of good leaders, um, you know, there's a lot of great NFL coaches right, um, that have not been successful because not, it's not that they don't know how to coach anymore.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: Um, everything is based on the men and women, um, and they need some direction and a plan, and our job as chiefs is to put them in the best way to succeed, and that's both.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: That's in what's the best way to succeed to ensure that our communities trust us and support us, particularly the ones that, unfortunately, we have to be in those communities more often than others.
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: And what's your best position to succeed?
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: To take the violent, criminal element off the street.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: That's what our jobs are.
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: Chief.
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: One of the things that and it's shifting gears a little bit one of the things that you really excelled in at Dallas and forgive me, I don't know the history at San Jose, but at Dallas was mental health.
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: Talk a little bit about your thoughts on mental health and changes that you made at Dallas.
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Well, the mental health is something that you know.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: You know, first and foremost, right, show me a mentally healthy police officer and I'll show you a happy community member.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Right, it's that simple in a lot of terms.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: But you know, mental health is something to me that in the last 30 years has probably been the biggest culture change in American law enforcement.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: You know, listen, when I got hired, when I started in 1992, if in 1992, there was a police officer that turned to his partner and said, hey, that call kind of screwed me up in 92, that partner would have told him dude, you need to suck it up we got 10 more hours.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: Or called.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: The sergeant said I think my guy's got an issue.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: Yes, well, my next one.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: The next part that I always say when I say this example is if that same police officer went to his or her lieutenant and said LT, I think that call kind of screwed me up that lieutenant.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: And if anybody that says negative wasn't around in the 90s then but in 1992, that lieutenant would have looked at that officer and said you know what, maybe this job isn't right for you.
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: And we had to change that.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: With all the trauma that our officers go through, um, and what they in, in, in in dallas, particularly after seven, seven, um, you know, they were yearning, they needed that help.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: You know, as our culture, we don't ask for help, um, whether you're a police officer, it's not even, as I mean male, female, it doesn't matter, we don't, we don't generally ask for help.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Was the fact that we were getting a lot of officers and discipline issues over alcohol related events, right?
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: And I remember thinking to myself man, we got to do something about this.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: And so, you know, working, we came up with the idea, came up with the idea of just, you know, if, if, if, an officer came to the wellness unit and told them they had a problem, that we would do what we could, everything we could, to put them in a 30 day in-house and put them on administrative leave.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: Basically, they get paid while they're getting better, because, as there's some diseases in our job that are stipulated for why we do the job I think alcohol abuse is one of those, and this was before they get in trouble, mind you.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: But we started that program and it was one of the first like we needed to start a program where there was going to be complete trust, because the sixth floor and that was what they call the chief's office in Dallas Everyone has their floor.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: What is there?
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: Six 12.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: We had mahogany row.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, whatever you call it, there's a nickname for it.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: Right, there's a lot of distrust and I get it.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: I was a cop, I was good there, so there's yeah, sure, I'm gonna come forward and they're putting me in.
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: When I get back I'm gonna be on a desk and this and that and the policy that in, not to go into all the details but it's become very successful.
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: And what the officers realize is it really was what we said, it was going to be what I said.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: I don't even want to know your name.
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: We've we promote.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: We've promoted one to Lieutenant, one to Sergeant that had graduated from that program.
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: Others have been successful as well and you know, it's only because they wanted to come tell me and say a thank you or whatever, and the thank you was to them.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: They put in all the work.
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: We just gave them the opportunity.
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: But again, when I spoke to the city manager about this idea, it was like, hey, listen, we either pay now or pay later, because 30 I mean we have.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: I think now they may have.
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: They had about 12 or 13 when I left.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: They may have more and most, if not all, most of them have been success stories and it's like, you know, paying now or paying later, okay, if we don't give them help, based on probably what's been happening in in because of the job and something happens.
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: How much are we paying when someone gets arrested in their administrative leave?
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: How much do we lose on the investment when they're ultimately terminated, as opposed to a, relatively speaking, a small investment of 30 days to get back on the right track?
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Um, and so born out of that was the check-ins.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: Um, you know that that that dallas does the, the, the, the, the, the counselors, the doctors, the things of that nature that you know they get tremendous help, uh, uh, from the ATO, uh, and others.
• 30:14
  Speaker 1: Um, and again to me, and as I'm not, again, when you look, when you have an idea and you take an idea and you have a team, um, that goes out and then performs their function, um, function and has their heart in it, right, so one of my good friends, joe King, who's very, very passionate about mental health, I'll never forget we had a series of suicides that occurred in the department that hit us pretty hard and, as I'm leaving, as they're taking the body out of one of our officers homes you know a lot of officers there and I just I take Joe to the side and I go Joe and this, this, this, this officer was was in a special operations unit and I told Joe, like tomorrow we need to get all of special ops together, I don't care who they are in a room, call the doctors, call the counselors, let's get this going, this and that and the other.
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: Well, obviously, to make a positive out of a negative, right, if we didn't have that unit established, like, they wouldn't have known where to start.
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: But because they had, like a mechanism that they put together, it was like turnkey by the next day.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: I'll never forget the conference room packed with cops, with the professionals talking to them about how to deal with things and and and helping them get through the tragedy.
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Um, but it was all because of the love that, um, you know those men and women in in the wellness unit and now, um, really care, uh, in something that was long overdue for just the check-ins.
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: It's been amazing, but that was just long overdue, and that's something that's going to continue to grow and something that we can never ignore.
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: The days of maybe this job is not right for you.
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Those days are long gone and they got to be long gone.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: And we got to do more for you.
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: Those days are long gone and they got to be long gone and we got to do more.
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: Did you know when you were kicking this off?
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: And you know one of the cases I'm talking about?
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: that it would literally physically save a life on the next episode of blue grid podcast.
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: I did not know that until he graduated from the program and he wanted to meet with me.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: They don't understand.
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: When you're in such a dark place where it is affecting everything your health and relationships and hiding it from friends, it becomes debilitating.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: It really does.
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's such a powerful story that, and again, what's great about his story is that because of his story, because of his bravery, because of his success and because the department kept their word, because I think he graduated from the program and a very short time later I promoted him.