Latest / Wired To Hunt Podcast / Ep. 639: Why Looking For Sheds Is Worth It For All Whitetail Hunters with Josh Miller

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Ep. 639: Why Looking For Sheds Is Worth It For All Whitetail Hunters with Josh Miller · Wired To Hunt Podcast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. Your guide to
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: the white Tail Woods presented by first Light, creating proven
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: versatile hunting apparel for the stand saddler blind, first Light,
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast. I'm a guest
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: host Tony Peterson, and today I'm speaking with Josh Miller
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: and we're talking all about how to find more shed antlers. Hey, guys, quickly,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: want to give you an update. Mark Kenyon here. I'm
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: not hosting the podcast today, Tony's got it, but I
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: wanted to give you a quick update on my working
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: for Wildlife tour. Now. I mentioned this a couple of
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: weeks ago, and now I have the full scoop, the
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: full details for you. Here's the cliff notes. If you're
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: not for I am planning on heading out across the
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: country this year to shine a spotlight on volunteer habitat
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: improvement opportunities. There's all sorts of conservation organizations that put
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: on these volunteer days asking hunters and anglers to come
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: out and volunteer their time to work on public lands
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: and waters. Maybe that's cleaning up a stream. Maybe that
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: is picking up trash, maybe that's planting trees or moving
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: invasive species, all kinds of stuff like that is going on,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: and I want to help encourage more of us to
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: get out there and help out. So I am excited
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: to do that myself this year by going to six
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: of these events all across the country, and I'm inviting
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: you to join me. We've got events starting out in
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: March going all the way through October, and we're hitting
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: all or at least most of the regions of the country.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: So here's the scoop on these events. I'm going to
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: read you a list of these different events and what
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: we're doing, and then I will tell you where to
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: get more information where to sign up. One other key note,
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: I will have twenty five T shirts to give away
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: at each event. The first twenty five volunteers will get
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: one of these cool new I Work for Wildlife T
• 2:07
  Speaker 1: shirts that I helped design with my buddy Hunter Spencer
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: from Metaitors. So little freebe now the events. The first
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: one March twenty six, twenty twenty three, that's coming up
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: here very soon, and that's going to be just outside
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: of Boston, Massachusetts, at the Martin Burns Wildlife Management Area.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: The second event is going to be April twenty second
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: up in Kalkaska, Michigan, when we're building brush piles for
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: game habitat and a bunch of things in the Traverse
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: City Forest Management Unit. Then fast forward to July thirtieth,
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, we're gonna be in the Panhandled National
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: Forest in Idaho working on aspenstand restoration. In August, we're
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: going to Missouri to the b. K. Leech Conservation Area
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: when in collaboration with BHA. Then in September we're going
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: to Mississippi to the De Soto National Forest. And in
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: October we're going to Kentucky in the Daniel Boone National Force.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: We're gonna do some very cool white oak acorn collection
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: for some local reforestation projects. That's an association with the
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: National Deer Association. So we got three events with the NBA,
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: two events with BHA, and one event with the Michigan
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: United Conservation Clubs. All of these events are going to
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: be free, open to the public, and we're just looking
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: for folks to come out help out in I'm excited
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: to meet you, shake some hands, tell some stories, share pictures,
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: and most importantly do something good for these wild critters
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: and places that we all enjoy so much. So that's
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: the game plan. If you go to the meat eater
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: dot com and then search in the little search bar
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: on the page for working for Wildlife Tour, you'll see
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: this website I'm telling me about. It's got the full
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: details for each one of those events, has a photo
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: of that T shirt I mentioned. It has the links
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: to register, which these organizations would like you to register,
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: just so they know how many people will be there
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: and what they need to have prepared for that number
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: of folks. So head over there, register, come on out.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: It's gonna be a good time. We're gonna be around
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: a bunch of like minded people enjoying mother Nature and
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: giving back in a great way. And I can't wait.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: So hopefully we'll see you guys first up March twenty
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: six in or just outside of Boston. Sounds like a
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: really cool wildlife management area that's been work done over
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: the years. It supports a lot of different bird species,
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: including some less common ones in that area like American woodcock,
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: rough grouse, blue winged warblers, all sorts of good stuff
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: that'sn't Steven so We're gonna be doing some good work
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: out there and having a good time and I will
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: see you March twenty six and now back to the
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: show with Tony Peterson and another episode of Wired two Hunt.
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wire to Hunt podcast, which is brought
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: to you by First Light. You probably know this is
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: not the mustachioed madman Mark Kenyon, but is instead the
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: guy who really seems to be holding the whole Wire
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: to Hunt thing together. Tony Mark is off on a
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: spiritual retreat where he is learning to meditate, harness the
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: healing power of crystals, and use astrology to connect on
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: a deeper level with deer. Apparently Mark is a Virgo,
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: and since most fawns are born in May, the bucks
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: he chases are I guess a Taurus, so he's got
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: some I don't know dumb theory about that anyway. Today's
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: guest is Josh Miller, who lives in Wisconsin and runs
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Riverstone Kennels. In addition to being a shed dog trainer,
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: Josh also happens to be a super passionate whitetail hunter.
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: This whole show is dedicated to finding antlers. It's about
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: where to look for him when to look for him,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: how to get your kids out there and excited about antlers,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: and even how to mix your dogs up in shed
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: hunting if you have the desire and the right dogs.
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: Of course, even if you're not a passionate shed hunter.
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: I think you should give this one a listen, because
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: there's plenty of info here that should benefit all deer hunters.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: Josh Miller, how the hell are you, buddy? I'm great, man.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: How are you doing. I'm good. I love talking to you. Man.
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: We got we got a lot of stuff to go
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: through here. We are coming off of a stupid winner.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: You live over there in Wisconsin, just across the river
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: from me, and it is really the time where, you know,
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: we kind of got a little bit robbed of our
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: shed season this year, this far north, but there's still
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: a chance to get out there and find some antlers still. Yeah, man,
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: it really has been tough just because of how this
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: winner has presented itself. Because you know, for us, we
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: keep a really close tab on our gear. You heard
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: here on my farm, and it's something that we look
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: forward to every single year, especially because you know, my
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: daughter is four going on fourteen. You know the way
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: that she acts my son is two or two and
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: a half rather, and so we're at a point where
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: we really like to do this. Yeah, I still like
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: to go out and find a couple the kids can
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: go be successful and get into it, but they look
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: forward to it. And now you know, we're seeing you know,
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: deer dropping and then like today, like I just literally
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: had yesterday a one antler, you know, buck that had
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: just shed. I saw him yesterday with both sides. So
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: I have a pretty good idea of where this thing
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: probably be. And we're supposed to get two feet of
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: snow today. You know, it's like it really makes it tough.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: You're covering those antlers up and he's going to pose
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: some challenges. So maybe it'll be a wait until some
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: melt off and towards spring a little bit. But but
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: you're right, the winner has posed some challenges. Yeah, it
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: was a tough year. I mean, we had such weird
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: conditions up here with you know, quite a bit of
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: snow right away, and then we had weird rain storm
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: I think back in January at some point that just
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: a bad cross stell out there and then more snow
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: and it's just one of those it's one of the
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: years where you know, as we get here towards the
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: end of March, that's when you can have those days
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: where you find like six or eight sheds and you know,
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: kind of mix up for the couple you'd pick up
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: here and there throughout the season. But there, you know,
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: there's still a chance to get out there. And I
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: want to talk about that, but I want to get
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: into the dog thing a little bit first. We've we've
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: done some shed dog episodes before, so I don't want
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: I don't want to cover it too completely here, but
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: you were kind of one of the pioneers of shed
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: dogs back back in the day. You and you and
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: Docket and a few people were really pushing that message
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: before it took off and it was everywhere. Yeah, you
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: know what's so funny about that is the first time
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: that it kind of occurred to me that I could
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: do this was there's a big state park that's by
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: my house and you couldn't hunt it at the time.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: You can now, but you couldn't at the time, so
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: it was just a white tail sanctuary, right. And so
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: as I was you know, probably like maybe like in
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: the eighteen you know, seventeen eighteen year old range I
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: had a dog named Easton at the time, who has
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: since passed. But we did a lot together all the time, right,
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: not just hunting and training wise, but it was like,
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: you know, anything I did, Easton was there. And so
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: being a very avid archery hunter, very avid white tail hunter,
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: you know, shed season was something I looked forward to
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: and I loved, you know, putting on those those miles
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: with the boots on the ground finding these and the
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: first it wasn't even an antler that that piqued my
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: interest on this. It was we were in the middle
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: of the state park that I don't know how many
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: thousands of acres it is, and Easton comes back with
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: a tennis ball and I'm sitting here looking around, like,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: am I like stumbling into like you where someone's like
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: camped out and living in these woods? Like what the
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: heck is going on? Why is there a tennis ball
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: in the middle of this whole thing? But he loved
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: tennis balls, and I remember bringing that back to me,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: and I was looking at it, going, well, if you
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: love this and you can find this in the middle
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: of nowhere, why couldn't you actually look for what I'm
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: looking for? And we could both be actively hunting for these,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: and at the time, I didn't even really know anyone
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: did this. I'm sure there were a lot of people
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: that were right, but for me, I had not heard
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: of this. I had not you know, research, hit hadn't
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: gone through it. So I literally went I was super fortunate.
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: I had a teacher that was in high school, one
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: of my shop teachers. He had a beer farm, and
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: so I just asked him, Hey, like, when these start dropping,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: could I pick a couple up and use it for training.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: He thought it was a cool idea of trying to
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: get the dog involved. Um, so I remember going out
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: there with like rubber gloves and a zip block bag
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: and trying to keep these like as fresh as I could,
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: and man like, that's that's just how this started. And
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: it's just kind of crazy here now. I mean there's
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: you know, there's different organizations. They're holding events, and there's
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: people from all over the country that are doing this,
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: and it's really turned into a big deal. Yeah, it's weird.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: It was kind of like this little underground thing for
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: a while and then and then it just blew up
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: and it was like everywhere you look there was pictures
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: of shed dogs, and you know this this was back
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: when you know, magazine writing was a way bigger part
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: of my job, and it was like everybody wanted that
• 10:56
  Speaker 1: story on shed dogs. You know, it's like, oh, this
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: is kind of like a cool new thing. And then
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: it's sort of it seemed to maybe peek a little bit,
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: and now it's just sort of like part of dog ownership.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: Like you meet, you know, primarily people with retrievers, and
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: if they love to deer hunt, there's like a decent
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: chance they've trained their dogs to find antlers or they've
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: gone to somebody like you to have them trained, and
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: it's just sort of become a part of the culture.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: And I think that's freaking cool. Yeah, yeah, it really is.
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: You know, so we we have our online training program
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: Retriever Roadmap, where you know, we have her library and
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: great community and all this stuff. Right, but that's the
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: one topic right now that's really coming up. Or you know,
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: these people and some of these people, you know, they
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: don't necessarily deer hunt, but they're looking for an offseason
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: activity to do with their dogs, and this fits that
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: bill this time of year, and so it's really neat
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: how you know, this can kind of provide not only
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: you know, increase in success for the people that are
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: already out there doing it, but there's people now getting
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: into the shed hunting that have never done it before,
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: just simply because of the dog. Yeah, I've mixed feelings
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: about that because I feel like I have enough competition
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: shed hunting. But I do love seeing people take their
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: dogs out and you know, try that. And I know
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: I've had because you know, we'll do a lot of
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: shed dog training in the parks by my house, you know,
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: especially in the spring, and people see it and they're
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: just like drawn to it. And if there's one category
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: of dog owner that has unrealistic expectations of shed dogs,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: it's the person who's like not not actually a deer hunter,
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: but they see that and they're like, I want to
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: train my dog to do that so I can go
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: out and find antlers too. And I'm like, man, you
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: have no concept of how hard that's actually going to be.
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: Training the dogs isn't like terribly hard, but actually getting
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: out there and finding a bunch of antlers usually is
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: for those people. But I love seeing the interest anyway.
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: Oh man, Now that's spot on too, because that's one
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: of the things that we when we take dogs in
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: for training for this, we're extremely selective in the people
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: and dogs who would take in for because there is
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: this unrealistic expectation that you're like, hey, my dog just
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: got trained to do this, so let's go hit up
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: the Walmart parking lot. We should find a few and
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like it's just like it
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: very unrealistic. And like what I always tell people is
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: that if you're going to do this, like it's not
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: gonna mean that you go from finding three a year
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: to eighty three, right, like you might go from finding
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: three to maybe five, like you know, a couple that
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: you would have walked over. It's more about being out
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: there with the dog and you and the dog having
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: another activity to look forward to. You know, the dog's
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: got sitting down to college, and you're not sitting down
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: to the the college. You're out there being active. But you know,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: you know, like you still have to be in the
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: area that these deer are when they shed to be successful.
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: You know, if if I go fishing in a lake
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: that has no fish, I'm not going to catch any fish.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: It's the same thing. And so you know, like if
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: you're a farm or the area that you hunt, you
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: find a lot of sheds out well, your dog is
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: going to have a lot of opportunities to pick them up,
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: which means the dog is gonna get really good at it.
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: If you if you don't find Manny and your dog
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: gets a chance to pick maybe one or two of
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: a year, well the dog's probably never going to be
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: overly proficient at it. And quite frankly, he doesn't have
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: the opportunity too because he's not in a target rich environment.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: So you know, there's it's not going to be this
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: you know, feast and you know, from famine to feast
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: once you get a dog trained for it. But there's
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: a lot of positives to being out there together doing it. Yeah.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: I mean I was always you know, taking my dogs
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: out with me anyway, but I felt like one of
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: the biggest benefits when I when I trained my you know,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: the first dog I trained to find him was my Golden,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: which was three dogs ago now, and one of the
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: things that I just loved about it was, you know,
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: like you said, at that time, even shed hunting really hard.
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: I might find six or eight in an entire winter,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: but I went more because she had a job. You know,
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: like it was like kind of dumb, right, Like you're
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: just like, well, it's it's winner, I have nothing to do,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: and might as well take my dog out. And since
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: my dog no is what we're looking for now, it's
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: just more fun to go shed hunting. So I just
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: go more and I find more antlers. But you know,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: like you said, it's it's not a game changer as
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: far as like if you're really obsessed with finding tons
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: of antlers, even the best dog out there isn't going
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: to change your situation like a crazy amount. But it
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: sure is just fun to have them with you now.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: And isn't it amazing that the dog does that for us?
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: And as far as like getting us out, because if
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: you if you talk to most dog owners, let's just
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: use the water falling for example, if you talk to
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: most dog owners, they'll all tell you the same thing,
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: and I don't even want to go if the dog's
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: not going. Yeah, right, And so it's just it's so
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: interesting how you know the dog and the relationship that
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: we have with them, How it really does it makes
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: the experiment they experience that much richer for us, to
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: to the point that we would say we don't even
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: want to go if they're not with and so I
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: think that's part of the reason why, you know, going
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: out and having them with their shed hunting, it just
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: makes it more enjoyable. I mean, they just they're lighting
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: our lives, only different aspects. Yeah, it's so much more fun.
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: And it's what's interesting. I want to ask you about
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: this because you know, I've trained a couple of my
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: dogs to find antlers, and you know, like like my
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: Golden she figured out she was going to get praised
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: no matter what if she brought me a bone, you know,
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: Like so she would bring me all kinds of bones
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: and sometimes antlers. Sometimes not my older dog that I
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: have now, Luna, she if she finds an antler, she'll
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: bring it to me. She never brings me just a
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: random bone. And I always think, like when we're out there,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: you know, because we do a lot of late season
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: pheasant hunting and sometimes you know, some of these states
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: you can hunt through January or you know, we used
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: to have that grouse season in Wisconsin that you could
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: hunt through January, and we would find antlers doing that
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: with the dogs. But when we were hunting with the dogs,
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: it was like they're not going to bring you an antler?
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: Like do you And I want to ask you that, like,
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: do your dogs if you're out hunting something and your
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: dogs found an antler, would they bring it to you? Matt?
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: Maybe yeah. But what I'm the way I see it
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: is like, okay, if if you if you're hunting pheasants,
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: like you're you know you're you're you're having that flaming
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: young right, Like that's that's the hitome. That's what I'm
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: here for. That tracks me up all of a sudden.
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: Like you look at a ham sandwich. You're going not
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: a big deal, right you You still want that filet?
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: And so that's what that's why I kind of look
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: at it there. Now you take you take the edge
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: off that, and you're like, hey, look we're just out
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: here hunting sheds. Now, all of a sudden, my que
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: words are different, my energy level is probably different, right,
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: And so the dog feeds off that and goes, Okay,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: this is what we're doing. But if you're a shed
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: hunting and you get into a patch of grouse or pheasants,
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: like the dog is going to kick into it, right
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden, sheds aren't gonna matter now, I'm
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: onto this, and then they're gonna have to come off that.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Like that's that genetic side, right, like feathers and birds
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: like that is ingrained in our dog's DNA, especially if
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: you have you know, the right bloodlines. I mean, it's
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: it's hard to turn that off, you know. So it's
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: never gonna be an equal you know, uh, you know,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: pray for them to go after, but you know you
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: can still funnel that where it's a very desirable object. Yeah. Yeah.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: They When I'm bird hunting with my dogs, they aren't
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: bringing me antlers. But when I'm antler hunting with my
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: dogs and we encounter birds, then it becomes a bird hunt.
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: Like that's right there. They're switching gears that way in
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: a heartbeat. When you when you started with Easton back
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: in the day and he started bringing me some tennis
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: balls out there and you realize you could do this?
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: What since then? Because I know, like, you know, people
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: who look you up, they're gonna see, you know, your
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: kennel that you run with, Whitney, your wife, and like
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: you're you're so ensconced in the dog world, the bird
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: dog world and train you know, a trainer by trade,
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: but you're a diehard bow hunter too, Like, what did
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: what did those dogs when you went and started doing that?
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: What did they teach you about antlers like shed hunting
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: that you didn't you didn't know before. There had to
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: be something that you picked up with after going out
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: there with your dog. So here's what's so interesting about
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: being out there with you, like before and after And
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: this may have just come through, you know, a natural
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: progression of sources. I grew up and got older and
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: had more experience, But what I found is that when
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: I was shed hunting before, you know how it is
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: like you are glued to the ground. You know, you're
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: a scan scan, scan, and you're like on top of it,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: right and man, Like, when I have the dogs out there,
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: what I find more is like I'm finding new late
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: season travel routes. I'm seeing oh my gosh, Like I
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: didn't realize this, this tree was on this edge that
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: would work great for this wind. And it's almost like
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: a pregame prep for me too, Like I know the
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: dogs are out there doing the work, and if we're
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: in an area that they're probably gonna pick something up,
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: especially if I have more than one dog out there
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: and they're covered a bunch of ground like they're probably
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: gonna find it, They're gonna probably gonna pick it up,
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: which is great. So I just get to enjoy it
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: more like I don't have to be like I'm still watching,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: I'm still doing my job, but I'm a little more
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: relaxed doing it, and I find myself, you know, seeing
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: things that wouldn't have seen for and I pick things out.
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: And it's really an interesting deal because I believe firmly
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: that this is the best scouting time of year, you know,
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: this going into spring before we get leaves, because this
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: is as close to it's going to look like when
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: I'm up in a tree, right, So I don't have
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: to over trim because the foliage that is, you know,
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: is not here or won't be there in the fall,
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: but we'll be there when I'm trying to do this
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: in August. Right. So I love, you know, hanging sets.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: I love getting set up for the year, you know,
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: going forward this time, this time of year, and so
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: it's just one of those things that I think I
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: can kind of step back and maybe see things I
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: was blind to otherwise. So that that's an interesting take
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: because I, you know, we just we just did a
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: couple episodes on winter scouting, Like I feel the same way.
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: I've said this a million times. I think winter scouting
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: for deer is the most important time you can spend
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: outside of actually hunting. I think it's so valuable. But
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: I've always and I know a lot of people who
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: are like this where it's like I'm neither a shed
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: hunter or I'm a winner scouter, but I'm not both,
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: Like it just just can't do it. And so what
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: you're saying is, when you go out there with the dogs,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: you have you know, you have the confidence that if
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: they run across when they're going to find it. So
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: you've got some you've got some extra critters working for
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: you there just for the sheer fact of like finding
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: more antlers, but you're also paying attention to them more
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: because you're a dog trainer, So you're watching them in
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: your hands, signaling them, and you're you're reading their body
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: language and stuff. But it also allows you the chance
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: to sort of take a shed hunt, like what could
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: be a strict shed hunt and turn it into sort
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: of a hybrid deal where you're looking for some antlers
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: but you're also winner scouting. Yeah, for sure. I mean,
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: as much as I love shed hunting, you know, being
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: in the tree, that's that's what it's all about for me, right,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: So if I can be you know, if I can
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: be scouting. Unfortunately, I don't have infinite amount of time
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: to be able to do it all, right, so I'm
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: trying to double duty. I think most of us probably
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: fit in that boat, right, like, well, we always had
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: more time to be out there and yeah, okay, I'm
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: anna shed hunt on this trip, of them skelt on
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: the next one, while most of us have to try
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: to do it all at once, and so to have
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: the dog out there doing the work, yeah, for me, anyways,
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: it just took that little bit of edge out where
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: I could do both at once and be really fishing
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: at doing both at once. One of the things that
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: I think is really a provides a really good lesson
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: when you're out there with a shed dog, is they
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: will find antlers close to you that you cannot see.
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: I just think, you know, I talked to an uncle
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: of mine one time, and they have horses, and he
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: was always finding antlers. And he you know, he lives
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: way up by Elie, So it's not like he's he's
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: in a part of the country that has a ton
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: of deer, you know. I mean, he's up in the
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: north country where it's like real low density. And I'm like,
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: how the hell do you find as many antlers as
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: you do? And he's like, we ride horses around, we're
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: looking down on them, and you know, it's so dumb,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: but you think about that and you go, man, that
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: that perspective, that's a totally different way to look at it,
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: you know. And when you're out there with a dog
• 23:18
  Speaker 1: and you think, man, I'm a real badass shed hunter.
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to miss one. And then you look over,
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: and especially if you're in some kind of saw grass
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: or swamp or something and your dog is digging away
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: and that that yellow grass and picks one up. It's like, man,
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: you you might not find that antler even if you
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: step on it. And so it kind of makes you realize, like,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: no matter how good you are, like you're bringing your binoculars,
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: you're slowing down, You're gonna miss antlers no matter what.
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: And I think that lesson is really cool that dogs
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: teach you. Man, the number of times that one of
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: my dogs, I all of a sudden, just heard bone
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: on teeth and I'm going I look behind, like, I
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: don't know how close I had to have stepped on
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: that thing, but it was close, right, and I missed it.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: So those are the times you go, oh my gosh,
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: like having the dog here really made that happen. But
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: I none of us are as good as we think
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: we are, you know, it's just the truth of it.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: I don't know, dude. I've met some people in the
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: hunting industry who think they're pretty good. Man. I've met
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: some dog trainers like that too, actually, But it is true,
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: and it's it's a good reminder, I think. And you
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: don't need you know, you don't have to train a
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: shed dog to teach you this. But man, if you
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: know how it is, like if you have that betting area,
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: you have that area off of the good food source
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: in the winter where you're like, there's antlers there, like
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: the deer of ben there. I know they're gonna be there.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: You think about you walk a route through there, and
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: you go, all right, I'm coming back here in a
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: week or two weeks or three weeks or whatever, I'm
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: gonna walk a different route. I mean, even two days
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: later sometimes and you just walk it and reverse, or
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: you walk it when it's super sunny one day and
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: there's shadows out, and the next time you walk it
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: it's that nice overcast day where there's no shadows. It's
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: just like the more you're out there doing that, the
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: more you realize, like how easy it is to walk
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: right by those antlers, no question, you know. And I
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: think I think that's a good lesson for a lot
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: of people who are you know, you know kind of
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: like we talked about with a dog owner who's like, oh,
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna train my poodle to go out and find
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: shed antlers because this guy's doing it with a lab
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: and I don't really understand what's going on. Like when
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: you think about, you know, if you're a you know,
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: if you're shed hunting public land or you know, some
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: of these parks or whatever where there are there's high pressure,
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: like there's a lot of people in there looking at
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: it can feel like a lost cause. But when you
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: know that you've walked right by antlers that are six
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: feet away from you, and you come back the other
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: way and there they are. Other people are doing the
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: same thing, And so I always kind of take a
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: little hope and that you know, I I live in
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: the suburbs of the Twin Cities, so I don't have
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: a place to shed hunt that doesn't have quite a
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: few people shed hunting it. But I find antlers every
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: year and it's it just say, gives me a little
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: bit of hope. And it's something you learn with dogs,
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: and it's something you learn just by burning you know,
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: some boot leather and getting out there. Yeah, no question, Yeah,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: it's it's it's all about getting out there, right, It's
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: all about putting those miles on and taking those walks.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: And I mean even on some of the private farms
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: you know that we've been on, you know, there's always
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: going to be ones we miss. There's always going to
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: be you know, those deer that are holding later than others.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: And for me, that's what kind of keeps it exciting, right,
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: Like I want to go back out and recheck an area,
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: especially if it's a farm that I have, you know,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: a bunch of eyes on and still running cameras. I
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: know that there's a certain deer, specific deer, especially if
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: there's deer that I let walk. I love that because
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: it feels like I'm now growing up with this, dear saw.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: I'm at two saw, I'm at three half sheds on
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: both sides. Of course, that's the epitomes to get a
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: mature dear five six years old and go harvest that
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: deer and have years of anilers. I haven't done that yet,
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: but that's that's one of the goals I really really want,
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: is to have that that growth. But you know, that's
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: that's kind of what keeps me going. It's like it's
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: a grown up Easter egg hunt, right, yeah, all big time.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: And you know, I'm glad you said that that you
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: haven't done that yet, because I think it's I think
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: it's very easy to assume that there's a lot of
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: people out there who you know. Even if your name
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: and deer and you have a really really good place
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: to hunt, whether you own it or it's permission or
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: at lease or whatever, it is not that easy to
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: go out and find a shed and then kill the
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: owner of that shed next year, two years or three years.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: It's like it looks easy and probably more common because
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: of how we were kind of fed stuff from the
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: hunting industry, but it is really not that common out there, no,
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: And I actually know very few people that have actually
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: done that, And I feel like I manage my farms
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: really tightly, like it's a very what you would call
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: it a session, and it probably is of sorts, but
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: it's something I really really get into. And every year
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: when you let a deer walk, you're rolling the dice
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: like you are gambling, because there are so many things
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: that can happen. You know, neighbors, you kill, the deer,
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: you know, hit by a car, gets disease, doesn't make
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: it through the winter. Like there's so many things that
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: can go on, and it is it's so uncommon. And
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: then you know the way that these deer you move around.
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: You know, there's the reality is that on a piece
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: of property, there are only so many mature deer that
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: can call that property home. Mature bucks, right because of
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: how they act, and so you could have an older
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: mature deer. This is where you know, taking deer that
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: are of the right age. It may not be the
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: calvalry you wamp, but because of certain reasons, like that
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: buck is never going to get to where you want
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: him to be. Could run off that young deer coming
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: up to that and then all of a sudden he's gone, right,
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: So there's a lot of things that can happen on
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: a year to year basis, and that's why I think
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: it is so difficult to find those multiple years, get
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: that deer to the age that you want them to,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: and harvest that deer. It's a goal of mine. I
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: want nothing more to make that happen. But it just
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: seems like every year when I think, oh, maybe this
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: is it, something happens. Yeah, I don't even I have
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: no place where that's even a possibility. I have one
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: time in my life where I found an antler and
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: then two years later I killed that buck, and it
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: was just I didn't I had no clue. I'd kind
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: of forgot i'd even found that antler, and then I
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: don't remember what I was doing, but I looked at
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: it and I go, man's that's blade it up and everything,
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: just like the buck that I killed this year and
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: then held it up there, and it was just one
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: of those lucky deals that he stuck around, and you know,
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: I didn't obviously I didn't match him up or thing
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: I didn't find the year after. But it's pretty cool
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: when that happens. And the other thing about that, you know,
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: when you when you talk about that and like, oh,
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: I want to kill a buck that's you know, six
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: and a half, and I'd love to have match sets
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: from you know, the last four years or whatever. Even
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: going out and finding a match set unless they fall
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: right next to each other is really not that easy. No,
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: it's not. Well, the other thing is think about so
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: I've read articles now on how they'll find like coyote
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: dens that have antlers all over in them. You know,
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: they love chewing on them. You're just like a dog, right,
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: like just like our domestic dogs, right, And so something
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: like that can even happen to where it doesn't even
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: give you the opportunity to find both those and you
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: could you could walk your tail off, you're not going
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: to find them, right. So it's just there's so many things.
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: Everything has to go so right for that to happen.
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: But it still is one of those things that I
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: sit and dream about, like I gotta make this happened
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: one year, I gotta make this happen. Well, it'll happen.
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: I was going to ask you about that with coyotes
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: because I found I found a mule deer shit out
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: in western North Dakota one time, and the base was
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: nod on, like, how do I describe this? If you
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: see like a mouse is chewing on an antler, the
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: rodent teeth they're almost like kind of sharp, like you
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: took like a sharp tool to it. And if you
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: look at how dogs chew down an antler, it's sort
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: of like rounded off, you know, like it's like gnawed off.
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: And I found that this was years probably twelve thirteen
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: years ago. I remember looking at it going, gosh, that's
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: that's super weird. It looks like a dog or you
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: know what you'd assume as a coyote out there chewed
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: on it. And then I remember thinking like, well, of course,
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: like why wouldn't they If you could throw an antler
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: on my floor and you don't pay attention, my dogs
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: will chew that sucker right down to a nub, Like
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: why wouldn't a coyote out there, especially if fresh one
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: with a little blood on it, they pick that up
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: and bring it back to their den. Of course they're
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: gonna lay down a chew on it. M Yeah, no doubt. Well,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: and it's just so funny right sometimes, um, you know,
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: even if it's right in front of our face and
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: we just don't put two and two together, Like you know,
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: hard dogs are just like you kayos or I have
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: a fox that is so awesome. He's, for whatever reason,
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: has chose that my food pot that's right out. I
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: had a food pot that I put in right outside
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: of our house strictly because my kids, being the ads
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: they are, I want you of them to get in
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: the outdoors. I want them to be able to you know,
• 32:32
  Speaker 1: from the house. Wash deer come in out and you know, hey,
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: you know there's a buck. You know, that's where we
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: get in the name and the bucks. We can talk about. Oh,
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: here's here's Ava's buck, and here's Colt's buck, and y'all
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: it makes it fun. It's a family thing, right. But um,
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: you know, like this little fox has just decided to
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: lay down in this food pot and sun himself and
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: it's like, well he lays an act just like the
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: dog that's at my feet, you know, doing this. Why
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: wouldn't he do the same kind of things like we're
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: talking about. Yeah, it is it a red fox, it is.
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: We have a red and a gray on our farm.
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: We see them pretty frequently and I just absolutely love them.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: They get a pass like I have one of my
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: employees loves the kyote hunt and he's like, oh, like
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: we should say that. I'm like, no, Like, you can
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: shoot all the kyotes out here that you want, But
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: I like seeing them. I know that they get into
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: the turkey egg and everything else that I don't want,
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: but they just like their mannerisms, how they act, the
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: way that they kind of use the edges and cover.
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: They're just such a cool animal to watch. I just
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: get a kick out of sitting here watching them. Yeah,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: I think fox are so cool. All right? Do you
• 33:34
  Speaker 1: think that that fox set up shop there because the
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: coyotes probably aren't going to hang super close to your
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: house and the kennel, and that fox knows it. Well,
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: what's interesting is that, just like you say, we don't
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: see kyotes from the house, we just don't, but we'll
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: see them all over, especially during trigger season, we see
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: them all over the farm outside of that, And I
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: can kind of one hand the number of times that
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: I've ever seen a coyote here. And so you think
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: about that's the main predator that they're going to have
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: to encounter, and if they can simply get away from
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: it by getting close to where they or not, you know,
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: I mean it makes sense, right, but here I mean
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: that red fox, a gray fox is every once in
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: a while he'll be there. But what's funny to your point,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: so the kennel, my house, my kennel sit on two
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: different parcels to two different forty acres of my farm,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: and the gray fox always round the kennel, the red
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: fox always round the house. So to your point, get
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: where of the carlots aren't going to be? Yep, I
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: think when you start paying attention to that stuff. So
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: here in my neighborhood, and in fact, I was out
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: with my dogs, I don't know, just a couple days ago,
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: and I looked over and there was a red fox
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: at the park, sitting there watching us from the other
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: side of the soccer field. We have, you know, when
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: when when I moved here in two thousand and six,
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: I did a lot of wildlife photography in the parks
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: around here, just because I had time. You know, I
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: was a magazine writer, like I just I spent a
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: lot of time watching animals and taking pictures of them.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: And it was we were we were covered in foxes here,
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: red foxes. And then I started to see fewer of
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: them and see way more coyotes in the parks. But
• 35:12
  Speaker 1: when that started happening, we started seeing more fox in
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: our neighborhood. And now I see, you know, we we
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: have a fox that lives right down the road from us.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: When I take my little girls out to the bus stop,
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: we'll look down the street and that fox will walk
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: out onto the street and sit on his haunches and
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: watch them get on the bus like consistently. And but
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: we don't see coyotes in our neighborhood. And so I
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: look at that, and I go these patches of you know,
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: of woods and fields and stuff where that are that
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: are the parks or the farms around here. That's probably
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: coyote territory. And now these foxes are like, all right,
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go live in these people's backyards because we
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: have all these little patches of woods that are connected
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: in these little swamps, and so they just adapted to that.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: And I just think, I think seeing stuff like that
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: is so cool. Like I think the more you're exposed
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: to that kind of like what nature's doing to make
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: it work, the better of a deer hunter you're going
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: to get. Because that stuff's happening all over out there
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: if you, if you're paying attention to it, it's such
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: a fascinating thing to really sit back and observe, especially
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: when you have the wherewithal to do what you just did,
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: step back and look at the big picture, right because like,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: but we're hunting, we tend to really nail down and
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: focus on Hey, like this this one buck has this
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: one routine, right, Well, why does they have that routine?
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: You know, what factors are making that happen, and what
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: and what what other factors are contributing to making those
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: factors happen. And it's a it's a pretty pretty wild
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: world that we live in. Yeah, it's it's it's wild,
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: and it kind of reminds me, you know, it makes
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: you think about how much you don't know, you know,
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: like how much you don't know that's going on out
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: there in the world. And then you think about like
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: a lot of the hunters out there, they're they're not
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: like this is gonna sound shittier than I mean it,
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: but they don't even have a clue either. Like I
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: look at like the people I encounter here where I
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: live that don't hunt, they don't understand animals at all.
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: I mean, I can't tell you how many times, like
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: somebody in our neighborhood, or you know somebody that you know,
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: we coach their daughter in basketball, or Sethople say oh,
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: we saw a wolf in our backyard, you know, and
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: you're like, You're like, uh, it was a coyote, you know,
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: like that, that kind of stuff happens all the time.
• 37:25
  Speaker 1: And then then you deal with like the hunting space.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: And I had a conversation with this dude probably I
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: don't know, a couple weeks ago that I was at
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: the gym, finished my workout. I'm sitting in the steam
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: room and this guy's sitting next to me, and I
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: have a I have a fish tattooed on my back
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: of my shoulder right like this old tattoo whatever, this
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: look like a goldfish. Yeah, I have a carp tattoo.
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: I'm secretly European. Uh. It's actually the uh the g
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: loomis logo. Uh. Anyway, it's from a from a past
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: life of really really being into fishing. But anyway, this
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: guy's like, oh, what does the tattoo mean. I'm like,
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: it doesn't mean anything. I just like to fish. And
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: so we start talking and he starts talking about deer hunting,
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: and you know, so anyway we get into it. We're
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: bs and I said, yeah, I worked for Meat Eater,
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: you know. And he's like, oh my god, we watched
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: Metatter all the time. My kids love it. And he's like,
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: you know, you know that the hunting public. I go, yeah,
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: I know those guys and he's like, man, I love
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: watching them too. I'm like, yeah, they know their stuff,
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: and he looks at me and he goes, he goes,
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: you know what's really crazy. He's like, I've started going
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: out now and watching where the deer come into the
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: fields at night. And then we go sit there and
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: he's like, this deer scouting that those guys are talking
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: about on the hunting public, Like that's the real deal.
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, it never occurred to you to scout
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: deer before that, But that's the reality out there, you
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: know what I mean, Like there's there's there's different worlds. Yeah. Well,
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: you know what's so interesting to me too, is especially
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: when it comes to whitetail right, because it just seems like,
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: especially when you live where you and I live, everybody
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: white tails right. It seems to me like the people
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: like when I perk up, and I'm like, I want
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: to I want to listen to this person. It's it's
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: the people that are open about man, like like I
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: don't know at all, right, and I'm really interested in
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: learning more. I'm trying to. Like when when you have
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: people that are like, oh yeah, like you know, most
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: of the time, it's you know, well, I go out
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: my opening weekend of rifle season, I'm going to shoot
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: a buck, any buck, just to say I shout of buck,
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: shoot my dough and I'm a big bad hunter. It's like, well,
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: I'm not going to learn anything from you for sure,
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: and we probably don't have a lot in common, you know,
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: because like for me, like I chase mature white tails
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: just what I do, right, So like for me, I
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: haven't killed a deer in the last three seasons. My
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: last year I killed was my one ninety and I
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: had a dear that I was chasing this year that
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: I know for a fact. You ended up scoring one
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: Sevenday nine because he was killed with a rifle after
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: I couldn't seal the deal. But like that trips my trigger.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: It's the experience, it's the rush, it's the cat and
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: mouse game. That's what trips my trigger. To be honest,
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: the shot is anticlimatic, especially afterwards, right, but um, when
• 40:11
  Speaker 1: people are open about like man, like I just I'm
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: learning this property and I'm like that's that's that just
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: completely trips it to me because I'm like, okay, like
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: you get it right, you know, you're not going to
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: know at all. You know, there's a lot of things
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: that are going to go on. Like that's what gets
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: me going. It's interesting to me how it seems like
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: the more humble you are with it, the more open
• 40:31
  Speaker 1: you are, and the more you actually end up knowing Yeah,
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: well right, and the more that it just gets you
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: out there, Like the more the more you realize you
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: don't know, the more you want to go out there
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: and just learn. And I think you know, I've been
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: I've been writing about this for some of these Foundations
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: episodes where you know, we the space that I'm in
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: right now, you know, I'll get an assignment. It's like
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: how to find shed anilers because there's people who are
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: just like I just want to walk into the woods
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: and want to find antlers and like that's like a
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: segment of it, right, But the reality is like one
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: of the biggest benefits to shed hunting isn't that you're
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: going to find some antlers. That's cool, and you can
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: learn some stuff. You know, you get proof of life
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: and all that. What you know, there's like obviously positives
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: to finding antlers, but there's a huge benefit to just
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: being in the woods now. Like you said, you know,
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: not not just winner scouting, but if you're if you're
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: a rifle hunter and you're listening to this and you're like,
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: you know, I go and sit my power line or
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: I sit my ladder standard whatever, and I hope something
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: comes by, and you know, two days into this season,
• 41:37
  Speaker 1: you don't see any deer every single year because there's
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: gun hunting pressure out there. Like if you're walking around
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: now now finding concentrations of deer, you're finding some of
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: those places where there was deer are going to hole
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: up when there's a lot of pressure. Like it's not
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: you know, it's not like a direct correlation, right, because
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: there's going to be other factors here because it's winner.
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: But if you find a place where, especially if there's
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: some pressure there where you know you're like I always
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: find an antler here. Every winner or you know, they
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: it seems like the big bucks like to bed in here. Now,
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: that might be a place you should really be thinking
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: about when the pressure hits there in November and you're
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: not seeing deer, because there's correlations to that stuff beyond
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: just like winter survival and surviving the gun season or whatever,
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: you know, Like it's cover usage, it's how the wind
• 42:25
  Speaker 1: rolls through the land. There's all kinds of stuff. And
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: the more you're out there now looking for antlers, you're
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: exposing yourself to those spots right well, And if you're
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: especially if you're new and you're trying to learn and
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: understand a property of farm an area, I mean, yeah,
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: if you'd really take it back to a basic level, Okay,
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: how do I start to learn this thing? Like, yes,
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: you're right, you know, patterns are going to change late season,
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: food sources like all the stuff. Right, But it would
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: be a very easily digestible way to understand an area
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: to go in there and say, hey, I know your
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: bed here, because right now, with their being snow, I
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: can see all the beds like I can visually. Okay,
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: so this area is a bedding area. So from here,
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: where's the food here? The traveler outs and you can
• 43:14
  Speaker 1: at least start to get an idea of what these
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: you're going to do on this particular property. Yes, again,
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: things might change, but if you are just looking for
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: I'm getting into scouting, how do I use this time
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: here to get a base layer foundation understanding of the
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: area hunt. This is a great way to do it
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: because there's nothing that they can hide. I mean, it's
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: very open, it's very understandable as far as what they're doing,
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: the patterns are doing it in and where they're going.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: And of course food source might change, right, There's a
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: lot of things that can change. But again, if you're
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: easy and into it, it's a great time here to
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: take advantage of it. Yeah, well for sure, And like
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: you said, you know that bed to food pattern is
• 43:53
  Speaker 1: going to be written in the snow, or written even
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: if you don't have snow, I mean written in the
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: open the most open wood you're gonna have pretty much
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: the entire year. And there's a lot to learn there.
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: And one of the things you know you brought up about,
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: like betting, I'm not like a huge bed hunter like
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: it's I'm I'm trying to get better at it. But
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: one of the things that I love about shed hunting
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: because you you know, when you're out there looking for
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: an antler, you're if you see a bunch of beds
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: or you see a big bed in a certain spot,
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: it's you know, it's it's gonna make you a little
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: bit curious, right, and man, seeing seeing like oh, they
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: bet on this secondary knob or this big bed tucked
• 44:31
  Speaker 1: into this deadfall so nothing could approach from behind. You
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: start to start to just learn some behavior, like there's
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: a reason why these beds are there, or there's a
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: reason why this loan bed is here. There's a reason
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: why this one antler was in the middle of this
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: patch of sumac here in March like this, I think
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: that's stuff so important, and it's just it's just kind
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: of like a woodsmanship thing almost. I guess, Yeah, you're
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: so right, man, there's so much that you can learn
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: from just spending that time in the woods. And this
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: is this is as as I guess easily read that
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: you can get this time of year. You know, it's
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: just more difficult to come spring, it's more difficult to
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: come fall. And then you don't want to get into
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: these areas in the fall because you don't want to
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: be pushing these year around like this is a great
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: time of year to do that and a great time
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: of year to learn. Yeah, big time. When you take
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: those those little kids out there, are you are you
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: planting some sheds for them so they're always successful? Oh?
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: Every time, every every time. You know, it's it's great
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: for me because, like what I'm trying to do is
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: ease them into this through success. You know. One of
• 45:36
  Speaker 1: the things I cannot believe. I cannot believe I ever
• 45:40
  Speaker 1: got into hunting, because I remember the first time everyone
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: hunting was a rifle season in Wisconsin. My dad bundled
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: me up. He put me in a twelve foot ladder
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: stand with a rifle and said sit here until I
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: come back and get you. And I literally sat there
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: with my arms like curled up in like a fetal
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: type position, holding that rifle, closing my eyes, waiting for
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: my dad to come back. It was cold, it was miserable.
• 46:08
  Speaker 1: I had no idea what I was doing. I have
• 46:10
  Speaker 1: no idea why I like this, you know, looking back
• 46:13
  Speaker 1: in that first experience, and so for my kids, it's like, hey,
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: I know, the croppies are biting like crazy. We're gonna
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: go out, We're gonna catch ten of them. We're gonna
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: have a blast, and then we're gonna be done with
• 46:23
  Speaker 1: them wanting more. Right, Like, I'm like, I want to
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: build this drive. What's the same thing here? Like, I'm
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: not gonna you know, take him out walk for a day,
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: not find anything, let them get bored and go damn
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: can we go home? Can we go back? Like I
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: want to? I want to really build this fire? So
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: oh yeah, So I have, you know, my little easter
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: eggs that they'll plant out for them so they can
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: go find it. And of course, you know, my daughter
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: if if you were to ask her, she has she
• 46:47
  Speaker 1: has the best eyes and the family because she always
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: sees these things first, you know. So it's it's fun, man.
• 46:53
  Speaker 1: It's just this is one of those things that you
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: talk about, you know, the hunting, and it can be
• 46:57
  Speaker 1: difficult at times to get the family, especially with young
• 47:01
  Speaker 1: kids involved. This is a really easy way to get
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: that going. And then all of a sudden, now you're
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: watching deer. Well, now you know my kids are understanding, Hey,
• 47:09
  Speaker 1: you know that deer only has one side. That means
• 47:11
  Speaker 1: there's one out there for us to find. It's really
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: fun to see them putting all this together. Shed hunting
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: with kids is fun. I shattered my little girls worldview
• 47:20
  Speaker 1: this year because I've I've done that their entire life is,
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: you know, carried a backpack out there and got a
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: little separation from them and chucked a few antlers out there,
• 47:30
  Speaker 1: and you know, they thought they were real badass shed
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: hunters for a long time. And to be fair, my
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: one daughter has found antlers that I didn't see or
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: I didn't plant or see like legit finds. The other
• 47:42
  Speaker 1: one never has. And this year, because I'm struggling with that.
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: You know, my girls have been hunting in Wisconsin the
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: last couple of years and in the last two years
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: they've killed six deer, you know, and they're they're eleven.
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: So they're like so freaking spoiled, and I'm like, I
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: gotta make this harder. And I think my one daughter
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: is actually gonna hunt with a vertical bow this year
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: because they've been hut with a crossbow and they're gonna
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: they're gonna level up and find that it's a lot harder.
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: But with the shed thing, they were getting really cocky.
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: So I fussed up to him. I was like, you
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: guys know that all those sheds, except for a couple,
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: were ones that I planted or I saw first, and
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: my one daughter, who hasn't found one, was so pissed.
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: But what happened is this winner. She's been asking me
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: to go more than ever because she's like, I'm going
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: to prove to you that I could find an antler
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: on my own. And so I feel like it was
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: a super lucky parenting win because I didn't I didn't
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: know how that was gonna go, right. But now she's
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: like competitive because she knows her sister has found some,
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: and so she's like, we're going, I'm gonna show you.
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: And she's pretty hard headed, so she'll she'll find one eventually.
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: But when I told them that, they were like you
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: just to look on their face, they're like, you bastard.
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: Like they were so convinced that they were good at
• 49:01
  Speaker 1: shed hunting and they are absolutely not. Oh gosh, that's
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: that's like telling them the Saint is not real. Dude.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: This daughter, I've said this many times. You know they're twins.
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: I've got one who's she She observes everything, She notices everything,
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: little details in nature. She asked questions about stuff where
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: you're like she is into it, and the other one
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: is so oblivious. And so this is a totally random story,
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: but we went to I took my one daughter to
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: Cabella's the other day, the one who actually sees details
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: and finds antlers. I took her. We bought a bunch
• 49:40
  Speaker 1: of fishing stuff and she saw I can't I think
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: it's called a live target or a living target that
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: live target lures or something, but it's a it's a
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: spider topwater lure, so you know, like a like a
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: grass frog or whatever. But it's a soft plastic but
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: it's a big tarantula looking spider, and she she's infatuated
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: with it. I was like, should we buy it and
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: see if we can catch a smally on it? And
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: she's like yeah. So I bought it, and then we
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: got home and I was like, you know, we really
• 50:07
  Speaker 1: should use this to prank your sister, Like we should.
• 50:10
  Speaker 1: We should plant this somewhere and scare the shit out
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: of her. Right, So we put this white it's white
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: tarantula looking spider on the middle of the floor in
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: her bathroom, this little bathroom downstairs, and then all day
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: long we're like, oh, honey, you gotta go give the
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: dogs water. Oh, can you go get this? Can you
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: go get that? She went into that bathroom like six
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: times and never noticed that. So we're like, we sent
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: her down there, and we're like giggling and waiting for
• 50:38
  Speaker 1: the screams to start. She never noticed this enormous fake
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: spider on her floor until the other sister like took
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: her down and basically made her look at it. And
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: I was like, no, wonder, you don't find any antlers, Like,
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: no wonder, Like you've never been out there and been like, oh,
• 50:54
  Speaker 1: there's an antler over there, Like you can't even see
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: this on a wood floor that you've been feet away
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: from six times today, So so disappointing. Oh gosh, I'm
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: a little more concerned with the reaction that you were
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: hoping to get out of it. Uh, well, I know
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: it was. It was a little bit mean, but once
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: we started going with it, where like we got to
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: see this through and because that daughter, if a ladybug
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: like lands near her, she freaks out, and so we
• 51:30
  Speaker 1: knew she was gonna We knew it was gonna be
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: a good reaction, but it really actually wasn't because we
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: we had to like put it right in her face
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: and it just didn't work out. But I was like,
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: I was like, here in my head, I'm like, you're
• 51:42
  Speaker 1: never gonna be a good hunter. Like I don't know
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: how you're ever gonna make it doing this, Like she
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: doesn't notice anything. But maybe maybe this year because she's
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: maybe the stubbornness, the hard headedness will we'll see it
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: through for her. But I just don't know. Oh I'm
• 51:59
  Speaker 1: sure I'm her it will. What do people get wrong
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: about shed hunting? Like, what do you what do you
• 52:18
  Speaker 1: think people who haven't done it a lot or aren't
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: very successful, what are they missing? I really think the
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: biggest thing is just simply that they're not in the
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: area the sheds are. You know, just because you had
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: deer there in the fall does not mean that they're
• 52:34
  Speaker 1: going to be there in the winter. And just because
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: you know you have a food source doesn't necessarily mean
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: that you're going to find something. You know, I know
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: a lot of guys that are just walking through a
• 52:43
  Speaker 1: property just because that's what they proper, that's the property
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: that they have, And I totally get that, you know,
• 52:48
  Speaker 1: but it's hard to get discouraged if you're not being
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: successful well because you still have to be where the
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: deer are, where the deer dropping. And it's one of
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: those things that you know that like for me, I
• 53:00
  Speaker 1: set up all of my farms so that late season
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: I have this time of opportunity and make sure I've
• 53:05
  Speaker 1: got the bedding area and make sure I have the
• 53:07
  Speaker 1: food and enough food for it to be late. That's
• 53:10
  Speaker 1: a big one, right, Just because you have a food
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: source that's you know, productive in the fall, does not
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: mean that your you know, Corterbaker food plot is still
• 53:17
  Speaker 1: going to be producing enough food for a deer herd
• 53:19
  Speaker 1: field this time of year or that they can get
• 53:21
  Speaker 1: to it. Right. I'm a big corn and beans guy
• 53:23
  Speaker 1: just because of what it offers, especially like right now
• 53:26
  Speaker 1: we're eating two feet of snow. They're still going to
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: be able to get to that food. So there's a
• 53:31
  Speaker 1: lot of factors, but just you know, the success it
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: really is location. You've got to be where they're going
• 53:36
  Speaker 1: to be, where they drop. Yeah, well I've been thinking
• 53:39
  Speaker 1: about that a lot, you know, because it's it's so
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: common to think about that cut corn field or the
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: cut bean field or whatever. It's like the place to
• 53:48
  Speaker 1: be first. And yeah, like you can find plenty of
• 53:51
  Speaker 1: antlers in food sources, you know, like you just can.
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: But I also think there's sort of there's sort of
• 53:59
  Speaker 1: a parallel with shed hunting, where people kind of gravitate
• 54:03
  Speaker 1: toward where they can see a lot. So you get
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: into that open field or you get into that really
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: nice deciduous forest without a bunch of undergrowth, and you
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: look around and I know, for me, especially here, you know,
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: close to my house, the antlers I find are almost
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: always like on the edge of a cat tail slew
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: or in some kind of overgrown thicket or something like.
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: They're very rarely in the nice open spots and the
• 54:29
  Speaker 1: places where it's like comfortable to walk. And it's like
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: it always feels to me kind of like a public
• 54:35
  Speaker 1: land white till hunt, where I'm like, I'm never going
• 54:36
  Speaker 1: to kill one on a field edge on public land,
• 54:40
  Speaker 1: you know, like they're always going to be in the
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: thickest shit they can get into, or some creek bottom
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: or something. And antlers, to me, at least where I'm
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: shed hunting, it feels like a lot of times those
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: places where they're gonna go, you know, they're gonna bed
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: down in the day, so they're spending quite a bit
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: of time there and they might be browsing around at
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: last light at first light, but sort of concentrated movement
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: in that. In the thicker stuff is where I tend
• 55:06
  Speaker 1: to find a lot of antlers, and not very often
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: do I find them out in the nice, wide open
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: where I'd like to Yeah, betting grasses, man, like those
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: those are hot beds for me, just because, like I said,
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: betting is where they're going to spend the majority of
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: their time this time of year. They want to conserve calories,
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: they want to conserve energy. They're going to be hanging
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: in those especially for us. You know, these grass areas,
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: it's it's buffers from wind. You know. They can get
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: down there and they can stay warm, they can stay hidden.
• 55:37
  Speaker 1: That is where we're really successful. But that's also where
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: the dogs come into play, probably the most handy because
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: in those wide open canopy bottoms, in those food plots
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: you can see you know. So yeah, you could lead
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: the dog into it, let the dog pick it up
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: and have fun doing a team work thing. But the
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: dogs that when they surprise you with one. To me,
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: it tends to be in those betting grasses. Yeah, oh man,
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: me too. And it also in those places where you know,
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: you get into like a I don't know, a thicket
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: of prickly ash or something where like you're just naturally
• 56:10
  Speaker 1: kind of going where you can stand up the most
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: and walk and a dog can just zip through that cover,
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: you know. I mean, obviously your dog's not quite as
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: tall as a deer, but they're closer together than you know,
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: we are to a lot of the deer, right or
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: you know, I mean it's they can slip through the
• 56:26
  Speaker 1: cover in a way that deer can as well. And
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: it just feels like a lot of times, you know,
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: kind of like when you're grouse hunting in the woods,
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: like you're like, I want to I want to pick
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: a spot where I'm standing up so I can get
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: a shot, and those dogs are going all over through
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: that cover that you don't want to go into if
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: they if they're good dogs. The same thing happens when
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: you're shed hunting, right for sure? For sure? Now what
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: else are people missing here? Man? What have we not covered?
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: Do you have like a you know, favorite conditions to
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: shed hunting, like lighting conditions or anything like that. Well,
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: you know, for me, it just seems like there's certain days,
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: you know, from it the best days or the days
• 57:03
  Speaker 1: that you know to do it right, Like whatever day
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: I can get out there is best. But um, you're
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: like for the bright days. For me, if there's snow
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: in the ground, you know, it always gets a little tougher,
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: just because you know that your eyes are always trying
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: to you know, get off that that fixation of right
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: right right, you know, just like today, Yeah, I'm on
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: the tractor moving snow for three hours and my eyes
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: just hurt right because they're just so you know, you
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: get war out just kind of focusing the whole time.
• 57:30
  Speaker 1: But there's not really anything you know, for me that way,
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: It's just a matter of of when can I get out?
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: And you know, I just I like to let this
• 57:38
  Speaker 1: snow kind of subside a little bit, especially in the
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: situation like we have now, because like I still have
• 57:43
  Speaker 1: deer that are holding I don't want to blow them
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: out and you know, get their routine kind off because
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: I know what they're doing. At the same side, I've
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: got the deer that have dropped that are really kind
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: of anty and anxious, like they want to get out there.
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: So if I'm gonna air on a side, I'm gonna
• 57:57
  Speaker 1: air on late, let everything drop, let everything become because
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: a big part of this to me too is, you know,
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: the deer have their routine here for a reason. You know,
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: I think just out west a camera foras Utah or Colorado,
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: like they just you know, banned shed hunting for the
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: foreseeable future, not that they won't open it up this year,
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: but it's because the winner has been so tough that
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: the deer doing what they're doing for a reason. That's
• 58:20
  Speaker 1: how they're living. And so the more that you're going
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: and blow them out and get to the point they're
• 58:24
  Speaker 1: not comfortable, get to the point that they're not you know,
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: safe from what they feel like and like you're doing
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: your herd a disservice. Yeah, all right, So I like
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: to let them have that time, let them have that comfortability,
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: to let them get their routine, let them get through
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: the winter, and then I'm going to go in and
• 58:39
  Speaker 1: try to try to do what I want to do, right,
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: But I'd really try to be very very selective in
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: one of them. And you know, from a weather standpoint,
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: I guess the one thing I do keep track of
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: is if I'm going into either a big storm like
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: we are now or I'm going into a real cold
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: stretch that I know the deer are going to have
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: to be feeding. I do try not to bugger them
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: up too much in that time, because that's again, at
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: the end of the day, the hole reason I'm doing
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: this is because I care about, you know, my dear herd.
• 59:06
  Speaker 1: I want you to watch them progress. I want them,
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: you know, to see them, um keep you know, growing
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: and improving. While I'm not going to do that if
• 59:13
  Speaker 1: I if I make it to where they're having a
• 59:14
  Speaker 1: more difficult time surviving than what it already is. Yeah, yeah,
• 59:18
  Speaker 1: I wrestle with that too. And I've I've gotten to
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: the point in my life where if it's if it's
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: bad conditions for them, I just don't go. I just wait.
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: And I you know, part of that might be just
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: because I tend to have better shed hunts in March anyway,
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: uh you know, I mean, like you, I've I've seen
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: dear you know, we saw a really good one still
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: holding um you know, back there towards the end of February,
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: and you know we I used to find a fair
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: amount of big ones early and that seems to have
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: leveled off a little bit for me, probably because I
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: don't go as much, but it just seems like, man,
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: you're you're starting to get those rough conditions where they're
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: really strung uggling. It's just not worth it to go
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 1: push them around. It's just not a good thing. And
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: then you know by the time you get you know,
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: I usually figure or like the third third week of
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: February a lot of the antlers around the ground, not
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: all of them, but you start getting into March, mid
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: March and late March, and it's like that's the time
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 1: when you're gonna go out, and it's just like it's
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: gonna be kind of all or nothing. Like you you're
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: gonna have the right conditions. You're gonna get those overcast days.
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 1: If you're dealing with snow, it's eventually hopefully going to
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: be gone. And you just get those conditions where it's
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: like even though you got cheated out of a bunch
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: of the earlier shed hunting, that's when you can cover
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: serious miles. Plus the weather's you know, like really kind
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: of catered toward walking a lot. And I just love that, man,
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: Like I love that time frame where it's like you know,
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: your odds are as good then as any time you're
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: gonna go shed hunting at any point, that's right. Yeah,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 1: that's probably one of my favorite times too. Let's let's
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: wrap this up talk about dogs a little bit more.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: What what do you tell people? Because I know you
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: probably get seven thousand emails and dms a week and like, hey,
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: I want to shed dog, but I don't want this dog,
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: or I don't want that, or I don't want to
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: high drive or I don't want to low drive. What
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: do you what do you tell people generally if they're
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 1: thinking about getting a dog for shed hunting. Yeah, it's
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: a great question because you know, just like anything, you
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: have to have the right dog. You know, just like
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 1: a basketball coach. You know, if if a kid's going
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: to be an all star, he's got to be the
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 1: right kid, right Like, even with the best coach and
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 1: the best facility is the best everything. If they're not right,
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 1: they don't have it, you're not going to go be
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: successful with it. So you know, for us, retrieve drive
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 1: is the number one thing because you think about it.
• 1:01:39
  Speaker 1: So we talked about birds versus sheds earlier, right, So
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 1: like birds, there's a lot of genetic DNA inside most
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 1: of these dogs. To say, Hey, I want to do this,
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: but that's a warm, smelling, moving, you know, predator prey,
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: you know, type of situation bird versus a cold, hard, stationary,
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: less than exciting antler or this laying on the ground.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 1: And so, you know, just like going back that first
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: story with Easton of why he wanted that so bad
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: was just simply because he had the retrieve drive. But
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: I funneled it into a tennis ball because at the
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 1: time they were cheap and easy to throw, and you know,
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: cheap was a big deal for me when I was
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: seventeen years old, Like I needed anything that I could
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: that I could afford, and so it was tennis balls,
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: tennis balls, tennis balls. Well that's why he found a
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: tennis ball in the middle of nowhere, because he loved
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: it that much. And so what we then do is
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: we take these dogs with these high retrieve drives we
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: funneled into this object in a shed that this is
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: what we want, this this you know, funneled into And
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: the one question we always get is can my dog
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: be a bird dog and a shed hunting dog? And
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 1: quite frankly, I think the best dogs tend to be both, right,
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: because it's like they get that that you know, natural
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: side whoising out of them through the birds, that's bread
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: into them, that's there, and then you can just take
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: this drive and this this athletic system and this desire
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: and now it's like, all right, so here's this offseason
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: you know funnel that we're gonna now go try to
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: accomplish this. And so you can absolutely do with both,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: but you have to get the right dog to start with,
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: and that really all comes down to retrieve desires. So
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: you get a non retrieving breed, you're probably not going
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: to be as successful at this. Of course, there's always
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: exceptions to this rule. But if you're like, hey, I
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 1: want to put the odds in my favor that I
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: can go get a dog that is good at this,
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: it's getting a very highly retrieve driven your dog and breed. Yeah,
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: And we should break that down a little bit because
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: you know, people might be listening to this and going, oh,
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: I can just go get a Golden Retriever and it's
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: going to be a shed dog because it's got Retriever
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: in the name, and it's like the level of retrieving
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: desire you need in a dog and that you need
• 1:03:46
  Speaker 1: to foster in a dog I mean, it's got to
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 1: be there naturally and you got to work to bring
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: it out. But to get them to be excited enough
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 1: about something that isn't a bird or isn't a ball, like,
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 1: it's not that easy. It's not as easy as it
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: sounds like. It's not inherent in them. And so you're
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: talking about dogs that are really well bred. You're talking
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: about dogs like the dogs you work with, and you
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 1: guys are breeding and you know a lot of them
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 1: you're training. Those bloodlines are super legit and so you
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 1: know you're starting with the right pieces. They're on an
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: awful lot of those dogs where that retrieving desire. It's
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 1: not going to be just like the dog that if
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 1: you throw a tennis ball in your yard, it's going
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: to go get it and bring it back and spit
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: it at your feet. It's the dog that's carrying something
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: around in its mouth, you know, from puppyhood on all
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: the time and bringing you sticks and bringing you everything
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: because the off chance that you might just throw something
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: for it, like the dog that lives for that, because
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: it's it's not it's a weird ask to get them
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: to go get antlers, especially when you're out there for
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: three hours and they haven't found one, or you're on
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 1: you know, two days of shed hunting. You know, if
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: you if you haven't planned it. A couple like to
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: keep a dog, that's like going to stay in the game. There.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: They have to w that so bad. Yeah, you're right,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: you know, just just simply being a retrieving breed doesn't
• 1:05:06
  Speaker 1: necessarily cut it in this case, because if they don't
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: have that extra level everything you're talking about, right, like
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: the natural want to have something in my mouth, whether
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: that's a slipper, whether that's a shoe, whether that's a sock,
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: whether that's like these dogs. Yeah, And the thing is
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 1: that I always think it is funny is that a
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: lot of times people pick up a seventy eight we
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: go puppy bring them home like, oh, we're training, not retrieving.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: It's like, well, if if a puppy was bred to retrieve,
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: the only reason you bring home a week go puppy
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: and throw a retrieve forward is to validate to yourself
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: you did indeed buy a retriever, Like that's that's bread
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: into them. When you throw something, they'll go get it,
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: not because they've been taught to do it, but because
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: something inside of them says this is what I'm supposed
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 1: to do, right, And and that is something that quite frankly,
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: not every breed. Like just because you know someone is
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: breeding dog does not doesn't mean that they have a
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 1: true knowledge or true intent of why they are doing it.
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: And so I think it's even more important, Like if
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: this is your number one goal to have a shed
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: hunting dog, I think it is even more imperative that
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: you take your time and get a very well bred
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: dog that has a natural mouth and natural retreat in
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 1: mind that you can funnel to this because if they're done,
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: if they're not going to have it, Like, if they
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: don't want to do it, you're not going to teach
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: them to want to do it. They have to have
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: that from the get go. Yeah, and there's there's kind
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: of a misperception out there, And I know you've dealt
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: with this a lot because you specialize in British labs
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: and there's the you know, the stereotypes around them, and
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: there's the stereotypes around the American labs. And the reality
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: is like people look at it and go, well, I
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: don't want a high drive dog, but I want a
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: dog to do this, and do that, and do this
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: and do that, and they're like, well, I want I
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: want the calm dog at home and the dog that's
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: going to be nuts in the pheasant field or never
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: stop looking for antlers in the minute we get out
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: of the truck. And it's like, you don't you kind
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: of don't understand what you're asking there, Like you if
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: you want that high retrieving desire, you're going to have
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: somewhat of a high drive dog. Like they just you
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: can't divorce the two. And it's you're not going to
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: get this magical dog that just comes out of the
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: package and it's you know, a sloth at home and
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 1: this fiery beast out in the field. Like it's just
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: it's not really how it shakes out with real dogs. Yeah.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: Well the other thing too is that, yeah, I think
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: we have now titled quote unquote drive in a way
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: that we can manipulate that meaning to what fits us. Right.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: So what I mean by that is that you have
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: a dog that is in a duck blind and is
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: sitting there and the whole time just sitting there wanting
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: all jacked up, Like people go, oh, it's just so driven. Wow,
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 1: Like I have I'm literally looking at right now one two, three,
• 1:07:52
  Speaker 1: four or five, six, seven seven Master on hundred hundred
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: Trooper Champions have all the talent in the world. I
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: don't think you've heard a single peep out of them
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 1: in the background. They will make a single noise. They
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: have all the drive in the world, they have all
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: the desire to go do this, but they're under control, right, Like,
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 1: so there there's a difference there and drive and control
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 1: and so yeah, like you're right, Like the hard part
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: is like you can't be like, well, I want I want, uh,
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: you know, a vehicle that's a Lamborghini when I want
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 1: a Lamborghini, and a super Duty when I want a
• 1:08:24
  Speaker 1: Super Duty and school bus when I want to school
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: like you know, like you really have to be honest
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: with yourself. Okay, what do I want? What do I need?
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 1: And then from there it's all about finding the right breeder.
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 1: If you can find the right breeder that can can
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 1: connect those dots for you, someone that you can trust,
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: you will get that right dog. But it does take that.
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 1: You're not going to open up newspaper and say, hey,
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 1: farmer John had a you know, literate puppies and you
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 1: know someone for hundred bucks each like you could. Don't
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 1: get me wrong, you could, but again we're talking about
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 1: how do you put the odds in your favor. That's
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: not how you do it. Yeah, I wish, I wish
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: we could talk about this for another seven hours or
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 1: Metia or would just let me do a freaking dog podcast,
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 1: But they won't. Uh, but I want. But anybody who's
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 1: listening to this wants to tell them they should, they should,
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 1: you know, wants to let me know that we should
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 1: have a dog podcast. Please please reach out to them
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 1: and tell them. Uh. What I want to say on
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: that is there there's this kind of idea that you're
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: talking about, right, Like you know, if you if you
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 1: want that component, if you want that high retrieving desire,
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: there's a way to get it, and it's going to
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: be in the bloodlines and the pedigrees like it. That's it,
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 1: Like you're you could get lucky and come across it,
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: but you're not consistently going to get that in any
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: other way. Like you have to know that, and people
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: get hesitant on that, and I get it, you know,
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 1: not everybody's looking for a dog to do the same
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: things you and I are. But when you look at
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: a dog that has that has been bred to retrieve,
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 1: like it's really gonna be one that's like, I'm gonna
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: go get that bumper five thousand times in a row
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 1: if you throw it five thousand times. A lot of
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 1: people look at that as a negative, but I look
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 1: at it not being a professional trainer like you, I go, man,
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 1: there's my dog's reward, its entire life. And if I
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: know what my dog's reward is, I know how to
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 1: train my dog to do all kinds of stuff that
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: benefits me as a bird hunter, as a shed hunter,
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: as somebody who just wants control of my dog and
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 1: a different environments at home and parks whatever. That aspect
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: of retrievers, like the high drive, high retrieving desire thing
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: that is so fun to work with and can actually,
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 1: even though it sounds like it's a pain in the ass,
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 1: can actually make the process of developing a dog so
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: much easier. Oh man, there is a single guy playing
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: in the NBA that didn't love basketball growing up, right,
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: And quite frankly, there's probably a bunch of very very
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 1: talented players that never made it that far because they
• 1:10:57
  Speaker 1: didn't have that desire, right like they That's one thing
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: you cannot teach, and so you know that the desire
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: is such a big piece of this that you know,
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: and it's something that again I go back to the breeding,
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 1: because that's what it's all about. Like you have to
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: get with the breeder that truly has a why, like
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 1: why are they doing this? And why are they breeding
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 1: the dogs that they have? Like I truly believe most
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 1: breeders out there breeding the dogs that they're breeding because
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: those are the dogs that they have, right and they
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: can make a sales pitcher on it all that they want,
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: but that's why they're breeding those dogs. And so it's
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 1: like for me, like I want to find a breeder
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 1: that is doing things for a reason, that has a
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: process that's being selective because if they've done all that
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: work for me, now it's way less for me to
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 1: have to do and I can just trust what they're doing.
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 1: They are on the same wavelength as I am, the
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: same thought process, looking they know what I'm looking for.
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: I trust them. I'm gonna get the right dog. Once
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: you have the right dog, it is all about the
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: situations that you put that dog into. So yeah, it's
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 1: on you from there. But if you have the right dog,
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 1: it's going to be possible. If you don't, it's just not.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: I don't care how much time you put into it
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 1: and how much you know, don't care how much time
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: or how much work you put into it. It's never
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 1: going to work out like what you want. If the
• 1:12:09
  Speaker 1: dog doesn't want to go do it big time, big time.
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: If you if you want a good way to sort
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: of guide you on this a little bit, you think
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: about the average dog buying process. If you if you
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: go look up whatever you know you want. You want
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: a black lab. You want to yell a lab whatever,
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: I don't care what color it is. You want a lab.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: And you're like, I'm you could go find that. You
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 1: could find litters of labs everywhere. But when you start
• 1:12:32
  Speaker 1: talking to breeders, if if you're the only one asking questions,
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: if they're like, we'll sell you this dog because we've
• 1:12:38
  Speaker 1: got a litter coming up, and they don't ask you like,
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: what are you gonna do with it? What's your experience
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 1: with dogs? Like, you know, do you fessan hunt to
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: your gross hunt? What do you do? You're probably not
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: talking to somebody who's breeding a dog for high drive
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 1: and sort of specific standards. That way. But if you
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: go to somebody and you're like, hey, I want to
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: buy one of your dogs, and they're like, okay, I
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 1: got a bunch of questions for you, then you might
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: start to be on the right track, because those are
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: people who don't want to place a dog that's been
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: bred really well for certain tasks with somebody who's not
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: going to let that dog do that and encourage that
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: that's right. That's probably the number one piece of feedback
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: that I get when people go through our puppy process
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: and get a puppy from us, it's, oh my gosh,
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: you guys were so thorough And when they ever followed
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: it up with you know, how do you go about
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: it or why do you go about that? The way
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: I say it is, look, I am all about, you know,
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: my customer experience. I know it's weirdest kind of say,
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: you know, from a dog standpoint, because we don't look
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 1: at at these puppies says your products right. But the
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: reality is I run my business like a business, not
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: as a hobby, and so when I look at that,
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: I go, Okay, my customer experience is all about them
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: getting the right dog right. Like if I get the
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: wrong dog. It doesn't matter how well it's bread, it
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: doesn't matter how healthy it is, it doesn't matter. Like
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: if it's not the right fit. Like the dog could
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 1: be great, people could be great, but just not the
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 1: right fit for each other, the customer experience is not
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 1: going to be a positive one. And so that's why
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 1: we are so over the top, so thorough on that
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 1: process because I feel like that's our job, you know,
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: in this and of course you know, you could always
• 1:14:12
  Speaker 1: find a situation where it doesn't work out. But it's
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: amazing how often we get an email you go a
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 1: year later going, I cannot believe you picked the absolute
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: right dog for us. Well, it wasn't my accident. Yep, yep,
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 1: I love it, buddy. Where can people find you out there?
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 1: Because everybody listening to this wants a puppy now, so
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: where can they go? Right? So, Riverstone Kennels, you can
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: find us either on the web www dot Riverstone Kennels
• 1:14:38
  Speaker 1: dot com, find us on Facebook, on Instagram we do
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: a lot on there. Can also find us on YouTube
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: as we're doing more content on their showing our hunts,
• 1:14:46
  Speaker 1: showing some of the day to day with the training
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 1: and if anyways out there are looking to train their
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: own dog. Www. Dot Retriever Roadmap dot com is a
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 1: huge video library that I've put together over years and
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 1: years and years, and it's all about giving you a
• 1:15:01
  Speaker 1: lot of different options of how to train your dog
• 1:15:04
  Speaker 1: at home to be successful. And what's so cool about
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 1: that as a community that's kind of come from that
• 1:15:08
  Speaker 1: of people are getting together training, people are helping each
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: other out with different situations. It's really really a neat thing.
• 1:15:14
  Speaker 1: So that is a Retriever Roadmap. Awesome, love it, buddy,
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming on man, you bet
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: pal anytime you guys have a great rest of the
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: winter and go find some more sets with those girls.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: We will, Buddy. That's it for this week, folks, be
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: sure to tune in next week for some more whitetail goodness.
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: This has been the Weird to Hunt podcast. I'm your
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: guest host, Tony Peterson. As I always, thank you so
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 1: much for listening. If you're looking for more whitetail content,
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: you can head on over to our YouTube channel to
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: check out our weekly how to content, or you can
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 1: go to the Mediator dot com slash wired and read
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: articles by Mark myself, Alex gilstrom Beaumartonic a whole bunch
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: of absolute white tail killers